The Marriage Traps Driven Men Fall Into and How to Avoid Them

All of a sudden, after 12 years of marriage, I wanted to get to know my wife. I'm like, "Can we go out on a date?" No, no, no. That's like done. We're done. We're not married. She's sorry. We're not even together anymore. She said, "It's too late." And through the therapy, what happened, Ben, was that I realized that I didn't even know how to connect to myself, which is why I had a hard time connecting with her.

Vince Del Monte was known for the longest time as like the hidden genius that fitness entrepreneurs. turned to when they wanted to start or grow or scale their fitness brands. That is how I met him. I mean, he literally like high-paid coach, 2 coaches, built an 8-figure business generating income for business owners in the fitness space. And then he kind of went through some stuff, some stuff that we talk about on today's show. So I'm going to leave it there. You're going to learn quite a bit. If you are a woman listening in, this is probably one you're going to want to send to a man in your life, but you can of course, listen to. All the shownotes are going to be at BenGreenfieldLife.com/VincePodcast. That's BenGreenfieldLife.com/VincePodcast. Let's go talk to Vince Del Monte. Alright. So, Vince, this is a little bit of a blast from the past for me because I used to, like I think you did also, travel to all these health and fitness conferences and events. And, we shared stages together probably more than 20 years ago. You were like, I think you went by the term skinny guy's savior and you were teaching skinny guys how to get ripped and then also speaking at these health business events teaching people, coaches and trainers like me how to make money online. And, I was sitting with my family this morning during our morning family devotions and I'm like, hey, I'm interviewing The guy that originally inspired me to try putting information online and actually try to make a living designing information products and putting them online. And, he's probably partially responsible for me selling all my gyms and quitting my job as a personal trainer back in the day.

That's incredible, dude.

Yeah.

Thanks for sharing that.

Yeah. So, it's funny, small world. And, you have had quite the journey. That's actually why I wanted to get you on. Believe it or not, folks, I didn't want to interview Vince about helping skinny guys get ripped. I want to talk about something a little more meaningful. So, we'll get into all of that, but Vince, for people who aren't familiar with you, how did you get to where you were in the health and fitness industry as far as kind of being an icon to a certain extent as a leader, as a trainer, as a coach, et cetera?

Yeah, man. Probably like a lot of guys listening, I know we're going to get into this, but I was very driven. I thought I was running to something, but I later found out, I know when we're going to start talking about my personal life, I was actually running from a lot of unresolved pain and fears. But we don't want to get into that now. We'll just kind of paint the picture that most guys would probably relate to, which was I wanted to make a name for myself. I was a distance runner in university and in high school, but I was always a mid-packer. I don't know if you know this, but like I was a good runner, but not a great runner. I had good times, but I was never all Canadian. You know, I was never a champion. So I found a lot of my identity in running, and I think I created this story that I'll always be average. And I think I literally brought that story of I'll always be behind, I'll always be a mid packer into the next thing in my life. And I got into muscle building and I was a good fitness model. I couldn't even compete in bodybuilding because I wasn't that big. So I'm like, okay, I'm kind of good at this, but I'm not great at this. But what happened was I got into business, online business, after a number of years of being a trainer. And I was like, all of a sudden, for the first time in my life, I was ahead and I was good at business. And I was a cash millionaire by the age of 30. And I went on to make over 8 figures in net worth by 42. So it was like one of the first things in my life that I was good at. So I found all of my identity in my success, in my money and my fame. While my heart was in the right place, like I loved what I did, I found my purpose early on helping skinny guys build muscle, which was basically teaching guys how I defeated my skinny genetics and then basically helping fit pros how to start, grow, and scale their fitness businesses and quit the gym. I did that. I did fitness for 12 years and I did business coaching for 10 years. And that was really my journey. And I feel like I was always exactly where I was supposed to be until, yeah, we went on a massive detour that I would've never, ever, ever anticipated for a guy like me.

Yeah, the detour is interesting and I would love to hear the story of that because I didn't stop following you after being inspired by you to, like I mentioned, sell my gyms and kind of start a different path in life. But, I didn't keep up with you intensively. I would see posts that you made here and there kind of like people who you follow on Instagram or Facebook, they occasionally appear in your feed. But, when I would see you pop up every now and again, it looked like you had things pretty put together. You had this beautiful family and like you mentioned, 8 figures net worth, nice cars. You looked like you had things pretty together, man.

Yep. I was raised in a Christian home. My father was a pastor for 19 years. I was raised by great parents and I believed in marriage. I thought I was a pretty good guy, to be honest. And was one of those guys that said, divorce will never happen to me. And I really knew how to project success. I was selling, hey, not only do I make money, but look at this family that I have. So I think I really monetized, I learned how to And again, I don't think it was from this conscious, like, I'm going to dupe everybody. I really did believe that, hey, look, I got some stuff figured out. And as an ambitious guy, I'm like, hey, look, I've got a family too. And look, I'm a man of faith, which I didn't really know what that meant. I was the guy that just knew what to say. And I was so busy building my name, experiencing success and fame and money and providing this really cool lifestyle. That I never really looked under the hood to understand what was really driving me the entire time. And eventually those things catch up to you, which they did for me.

Yeah. I wanna get into like what happened as far as, you know, you moving to America and eventually, spoiler alert folks, you know, a separation that occurred with your wife. But before we dive into that, like, You've alluded a couple of times to what was driving you and you said at one point you were fighting being average, but can you get into that a little bit more in terms of what exactly what it was that was your fuel for the success that evolved and where you think that drive might have been flawed?

Yeah. I think as most men, we're trying to figure out our purpose in life. And I think I was just really trying to figure out essentially the way the enemy attacks us. And I'm not sure how many people of faith we have listening, but I did grow up in a Christian home. So my faith really informs a lot of what I'm about to share here. But I didn't really truly understand this until I realized that the devil got me hook, line, and sinker, as he's doing to millions of men every day as we speak. And the devil basically says to you, 3 big lies. He says, one, you are what you do, you are what you have, and you are what other men think of you. You are what you do, you are what you have, and you are what other men think of you. So I was very driven by what I did. Hey, look, I'm the biggest fitness business coach in the space. I run the biggest events. I've got the biggest mastermind. We have the most millionaires. We're pumping out the best social proof, right? So that's what I did. What I have, I have home in Florida in the winters. I have nice cars. I have my kids in private school. I have private chefs and personal trainers. I have a wife that doesn't need to work. I have, I have, I have. All right. And then the third thing was, what do other men think of you? And I was like, hey, look, I'm ahead of these guys. Hey, look, we're winning. Hey, look, we're crushing the competition. So it was all these 3 things that really was where I formed a lot of my identity. So how it informed my day-to-day is like, if I had a good sales day, everybody would know. If Vince had a bad sales day, everybody would know. And I was really dictated— my mood was dictated by my circumstances and what was happening around those 3 things. So I wasn't rooted. I didn't know, you know, what my faith actually said about me. I knew it as like I could tell you, but I didn't feel it. I didn't have a supernatural Holy Spirit conviction encounter with the true living God. Like it hadn't actually penetrated to my, me, to my heart to where I was on my hands and knees where like, wow, I am actually, I am in need of this God that I talk about. I actually, actually need him and I want to get to know him and I want to figure out like, how did we get here? So, it took a lot of pain to get to that point. I always say the harder the rock, the harder the sledgehammer. And, God had to use a pretty heavy sledgehammer on me.

Wow. So, the success that you developed, and I think there's probably a familiar analogy that people who have read or heard about this in the Bible may have come across that is very difficult for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven, right? When you have it all put together and it feels like everything in life is taken care of, then your dependence on God seems less important as well as your worth and your identity being tied to your relationship with God versus what you just listed, like what you do, what you have, what other men think of you. So, unfortunately, and I had this happen as well, I think I sent you my documentary and many people who are listening now may have seen that come out where I almost got divorced and I went through a lot of heartache after finding success that in the long run led me closer to God. But, I would love to hear a little bit more about the sledgehammer in your case, like what actually happened when you were, at least I would say by most people's estimation, at the pinnacle of what a lot of guys would be chasing, like the mountain that a lot of guys want to climb. Like, it looked like you were at the top of it,

man. What's interesting when I look back, it's just, it's mind-boggling to believe that, you know, what I had was not enough. And it was never about the money. I've never really been driven, to be honest. Like, I wear the same clothes. I've been probably wearing the same clothes for the last 3 years. Like, I'm not driven by material things. I'm driven by mastery. I'm driven by like being the best. I want to be known as the top dog in what I do. So that's more what drives me. And, um, like, there was more than enough money to say, hey, Flav— I don't like referencing her as my ex because I think it's dehumanizing— hey, we should probably, um, work on our marriage. Hey, I know I'm not showing up. Um, it didn't even dawn on me that, like, hey, maybe we should put things on pause. Maybe we should slow things down. Maybe we should Take a year off. Like, those thoughts never crossed my mind. You know what led to losing my marriage? Um, you know, there was a couple things. Uh, number one, it was avoidance. You know, if guys are taking notes, the first thing was like this belief that it will never happen to me. So she would blow up. This was a regular occurrence. Our first 3 years of marriage were great, you know, traveling, making money, easy, lots of good times. You know what I'm talking about? And then when the kids started coming, there was these blowups, like, like every 2, 3 weeks there was a blowup. And here's the scary part. Just literally a couple days later, we would pretend everything was fine, like it would never happen again. And that just went on. I look back now and I'm like, how did my marriage even last for 12 years? It's wild that it went on this long. And I know why it went on for that long. It was, it was meant to have 3 beautiful babies. But there was this constant avoidance of, we'll deal with this later. And we both came from backgrounds from like, you know, we'll sweep it under the rug avoidance. You know, everything else is going good, so we'll just deal with it later. That was, that was our main thing. The second thing was not investing into her. Like, she did not want a lot from me. She was super supportive, dude. She wanted to sit down and talk to me for 20 minutes a night. And she wanted me upstairs when I said I was gonna be upstairs. which was 4:30, which would get stretched to 5:00, 5:30, 6:00, come up late to cook for the kids and for the family.

When you say come up, did you have like a home office?

Yeah, I worked in the basement.

Okay.

And she was supportive and she kept the kids upstairs and, you know, she didn't interfere. She was very supportive. And all she wanted was 20 minutes a night. And for some reason that was like a challenge for me. The third thing was just, I prioritized my business over her. And I don't want to get into the semantics. I think a lot of guys get caught up in that. A woman knows who you love the most. And it was as simple as that. A woman knows if you're in love with your business more than you're in love with her. It's really simple for a woman. And we now live in a society where loving your business more than your wife, it's an acceptable— it's a societal form of adultery. It's happening every day. Men are having adultery With their businesses and it's just accepted. And I was going to my business for the things I should have been getting from my marriage. And not that it's wrong to get some of these things from your business, but I was going to my business for validation. I was going to my business to get worthiness. I was going to my business to get accepted and feel belonged. And these were things that were not happening. She was not getting her emotional needs met. And I was going to the wrong place to get my emotional needs met. And when those things happen, those things that I just shared, those 3 things over 12 years, there's really no reason for her to stay in the relationship, especially when she's like, I'm raising these kids on my own. You know, I'm gonna walk with half the money. So like, I'll be fine financially. And what motivation do I have? Like, I'm lonely. I didn't sign up for this marriage to be lonely. I didn't come for money. This is cool. But like, I want you. And that just— I heard it. There was warning signs, but it was just like, she's not gonna leave. Divorce isn't on the radar for people like us. We're Christians. We'll deal with this later.

I think kind of like the, the very interesting and kind of odd part of this is you, from what I understand, actually like made the decision to move from Canada to America, still married and living like that. And so like, this didn't at least as far as I understand your timeline, actually culminated in a separation until you guys had actually moved?

Yeah, it's crazy. So we built this epic dream home in Franklin, Tennessee when we were together, and that was 2021, the summer of 2021. The house closed November— sorry, the house closed December 2022, and the separation happened November 2022. So literally the month that the house closed, pretty much. And then we were supposed to head down a couple months later. We were accepted into this incredible private Christian school for the kids. And all of a sudden my life hits rock bottom. And I'm like, well, we'll figure it out. Same thing. Let's just get down to the States and we'll figure it out when we get down there. She's like, no, we're not going. We're staying here. And I'm like, we're not staying in Toronto. We hate Toronto. Toronto sucks. I'm not dealing with this weather. I'm not dealing with these taxes, the politics, all the stuff. We said that we're leaving. So we're like, no, we're not going. And I'm like, this was the first time in my life I'm like, I don't have control. I can't just pick up and go to another country. There's kids involved. And I'm like, I lost control and it was terrifying. Now what happened was You know, through the process, we both came to realize we both do want to be in the States. There's some complications with the visa. And then finally the green card came in because she can't go down on a visa because she can't work, but on the green card she can work. So that made sense to wait till the green card came in. I need another podcast to talk about the medical records, but in order to come into the States, you need to be fully vaccinated. Like not just like the COVID stuff, but like stuff from childhood. We're not vaccinated. We don't have anything. My kids aren't vaccinated. They have nothing. She's not. I'm not. We refuse to do any of that stuff for our personal reasons from our research. And we're like, I guess we're stuck in Canada because I'm not— we're not doing that. And by literally like God opened a door in March of 2025 through somebody and it was all legal, but we found somebody who could help us with the paperwork. Done legally. And we submitted our paperwork and the green card was accepted. And then weeks later, we were sent passports in the mail and we came down on August 1st, 2025. And we've been down here for the past year and we finalized the divorce down here in the States. So my ex, Flavia, she lives 3 minutes from me and we co-parent the kids 50/50 down here, live in the States, and they're in school here. And we both absolutely love it and we're finally co-parenting peacefully, but it was not like that for a long time.

Yeah, it's interesting. The shift in your realization in terms of what you were pouring into your business compared to what you were pouring into your wife, I think the happy Disney story would've been, so I started pouring back into my wife and now we're married and together. And, it sounds like that's not exactly the way that the story was written or at least wound up. But, I mean, it seems to me like there's a couple ways that a guy could go in a situation like that. You get bitter, you think, well, I tried so hard. I realized that I should shift my priorities and maybe try to do that. What did you do in terms of having that realization yet still losing your marriage?

Well, divorce is very— separation comes first, but change is very inconvenient. And the first thing that I realized was like, why did I want to change? Because this was a disruption to my lifestyle. What do you mean I've got to watch the kids 50% of the time now? What do you mean I got to live in a small apartment now? What do you mean I've got to learn how to do the kids' lunches now and I have to be Mr. Mom now. What do you mean we're splitting the finances? What do you mean that I have to figure out how to do my own taxes now? What do you mean I have to do all this stuff I never did that she took care of? So just practically, it's a massive inconvenience. I mean, it took us almost 4 years to financially get untangled because our stuff was all— I had no idea how our stuff was all set up. I just made the money, she managed it, and it was all Tangled, and then we got all this cross-border stuff and all this taxes stuff. So I'm like, this was a massive inconvenience. I'm like, what do you need for me to fix this? So like I could just be on with my day. And and what I had to finally get to was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Um, you know, I got professional help, and I had to and I had to realize, am I changing because This is just disrupting my life and then I'm going to go right back into the same marriage? Or do I actually want a different marriage? Do I want a better marriage? Are there parts of me that I actually hate? And I had to look in the mirror for the first time. And growing up in a Christian home, you have a lot of people around you who defend your good. Vince, you're an amazing provider. You're a good man and all this stuff. And they fan the flame and they position you as the victim. And I had to look in the mirror and actually say, these are parts of me that I absolutely hate, that I have to murder, that we're going to kill, and they're not coming with us. I had to unbecome. It wasn't about becoming, it was about unbecoming who I was, never truly was in the first place. So I had to go through this process of looking at how I contributed to this and taking 100% ownership of my 50 and how do we get to a point where a woman— and, you know, just being graphic here— but like, a woman doesn't spread her legs and let a man inside of her who intends to walk one day, right? That's just not how a woman is, you know what I'm saying? If you think about it like that, that's like an— that's the absolute sign of trust. For a woman to open her legs and let a man inside of her to conceive and have babies, like, that is the ultimate sign of trust. So for a woman to not trust you for you to not be safe to do that with anymore, she's not even on her radar, you have to ask yourself, how did we get here?

So, the unbecoming, I mean, from a practical standpoint, it's like, where do you even start? I mean, are we talking pastoral counseling? I mean, some people will go do ayahuasca in Peru. Some people will go completely reinvent themselves in other ways. But, For you, what did that actually look like?

Yeah, I think I started with some pretty practical stuff. Like, I'll give you one. Like, I just didn't think divorce was possible. I didn't understand the concept of consequences, that when you neglect somebody long enough, they would— a woman can stand up and say, I'm done, I'm out. Like, I just didn't think that was a reality. So that was just on a practical note, that there's consequences to neglect and to not adoring your wife. And to not cherishing your wife and to not make her feel like the priority. If a woman does not feel like the priority, she is gonna go get her needs met somewhere else. So that was one thing. Another thing was just to realize that I was addicted to winning. I was addicted to not just winning, but I was addicted to keeping up. 'Cause you referenced when I started, I started back in the day with a lot of other guys. So we all kind of, we're silly, we talk about our numbers, like how much money we're making. So I had it, In behind the scenes, look to how much money my buddies were making. So I'm like, you're at what level now? How did you do that? So I was constantly trying to keep up. So I was always either feeling behind or ahead. So I was finding my worth in how I was doing compared to my buddies. Another thing was I just figured there was plenty of time. A lot of people told me, I had friends joke around with me. They're like, Vince, I'd tell them some marriage problems. Name one couple that's having a great marriage with kids under 10. It just doesn't exist. Dude, you're good, man. You're fine, man. Bro, you're good. So my mind was like, oh, it's normal to have a crappy marriage when your kids are young. Again, we'll deal with this later. I've got plenty of time. And then the last thing, when I really started to dig into my faith too, I started to understand this idea of biblical order. And I've heard it. I heard about it in church, biblical order, but God is a God of order. And God will not bless things that are out of order. And order is God first, your wife second, your kids third, and then your business or ministry fourth. Like order. So my life was not in order. It— for me, I think I said that probably a few times on my social media. God first. Everybody says that. God first.

Yeah.

BS. For me, it was business, business, business, business. And I think I just was a guy that was, again, I had to figure out why was this so important? And what happened is as soon as, if your wife says, I'm done, and that's what happened. It was Christmas 2022. I went away to the Tennessee house for a month and I came back and I thought things are going to be good. And I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry. I messed up. I want us to get help. I think we should get in therapy. I talked to all these guys. They said we should go to these retreats. I'm going to get back in the word. We're going to start going to church. And like, I'm so sorry I messed up. You know what she said? Vince, I'm done. Wow. I'm like, what do you mean you're done? I just said like, I messed up. I'm aware of it. I'm taking ownership. I'm taking ownership. I'm, I'm not blaming you. This is my fault. I'm taking ownership. She said, it's too late. I'm done. Like, I've been trying. I've been trying. Now you're going to try? I've been trying the whole marriage. I'm done. And that was the night I completely lost it. I slammed doors, I went downstairs, I destroyed a guitar. I took probably 2 dozen bottles of alcohol out in the driveway and I smashed them all. And I woke up all the kids. It was probably one of the worst nights of our life. And I went upstairs and she just looked at me, she goes, you can't handle rejection.

You'd like been so successful for so long. And then this one thing that's probably pretty darn important in your life is like something that all of a sudden seems like a mega fail.

And when she said, you don't know how to handle rejection, I never even knew what that word rejection meant. And that's when I went to get help. And she traced back when I started to first experience rejection in my past. And we started to go after those wounds and those stories and those identities that were formed and the behaviors and all the emotions and how to manage them. And all this therapy stuff that I started to do to understand when disappointment first started in my life. And I started to heal and started to do some work. But for her, it was just too late. Her position was, you're only changing because you want me back, because this is inconvenient, and because I made your life easy. And in that moment, I'm like, I will downsize my business. I will do whatever it takes. And that was when I realized again the concept of consequences. And that's when I realized that I, I couldn't just fix this with, with like a logical spreadsheet. And girls don't do math. I was like trying to like, you're gonna split up the family, you're splitting up our finance, we're supposed to go to Tennessee. And that's when I realized like women don't do math. And I was no longer a safe person. And I had to figure out how in the world did Vince Del Monte become an unsafe person. And I had to figure out like all of this stuff that I brought into the marriage. And someone says, what's it like being married to you? You keep talking about what it's like being married to her? What's it like being married to you, Vince? I'm like, excuse me? She's like, yeah, what's— what would it be? I'm like, man, you feel like you're probably married to a little boy half the time who doesn't get his way. He throws temper tantrums. And I'm like, I'm a grown man and I throw temper tantrums when I don't get my way. And I yell and, you know, treat my wife like a concubine. And I don't plan and all these things. And I had to start to figure out Who is this guy? And what I also realized, the beauty in all this was a couple things. When you are threatened to not see your kids, and she was like, she wanted like 80%, she's like, you don't even want to be a dad. I had to like, wait a second. She goes, you want to be a dad? You're never even around. I'm like, and then I realized, no, I do. Here's the good news. I actually was like, no, I do want to be a dad. I actually want those kids 50/50. I declared that. I said, I will, I will Burn every penny to the ground to get 50/50. And we have 50/50. But I realize, now I realize what actually mattered when I was about to lose it. And women hate hearing this because they're like, why didn't you just change before? Like I said, the harder the stone, the harder the hammer. And I was just, I was a man made of a lot of stone. And I finally realized I actually want to be in a relationship. I'm like, I don't care about the money. I actually want to save this marriage. All of a sudden, after 12 years of marriage, I wanted to get to know my wife. I'm like, can we go out on a date? Can we go have sex? She's like, no, no, no, that's like done. We're done. Like, we're off the— that's all that— that's— we're not married. She's sorry, we're not even together anymore. I'm like, all this stuff all of a sudden. I want to get to know you. I want to talk to you. I want to write you these letters and all this stuff all of a sudden. I wanted to be— I wanted to come in and like, I actually felt— found this heart that wanted to connect. And I'm like, And through the therapy, what happened, Ben, was that I realized that I didn't even know how to connect to myself. I didn't know how to connect to God. I didn't know how to connect to myself. So I was able to start extending myself compassion and grace, which is why I had a hard time connecting with her because everything I did was very transactional and I didn't see the value in just like human connection, just having peace with one another. having calmness, having somebody see me and still love me for, again, who I am. Remember, men find their identity in what we have, what we do, and what other men think. Now all of a sudden you have this woman that loves me for none of those things. That's hard for me to understand. And here's a woman that loved me for just who I was, and now like, this is what I want, and all of a sudden it's too late.

You know, you've alluded a couple times to the idea that like you grew up as a Christian and You'd been to church. As far as the connection to God part, let's take prayer, for example, like actually talking to God. Did something like that change as you went through this process as far as what it looked like to actually be connected to God and what it felt like to talk to God?

Yeah, yeah. So, big time. So, the truth is I did accept Jesus into my heart when I was 13. I knew a lot of the Bible. I read the Bible. I believed in God and everything historically and all that logically. Like, I believed I was going to heaven and all that, but I wasn't living in freedom, right? I wasn't living in freedom. I never experienced deliverance. I knew how to perform Christianity. You know, my prayers, I guess, probably sounded like most people's, kind of like, you know, praying for stuff. Thank you, God, for the good day and for the blessings today. Pray that you protect us. You know, it was those kind of prayers. But I don't think I really heard Jesus talk to me. I don't think I ever truly felt the Father's love until the night. It was December 22nd, November 2022. And it was that night that I told you about when she said, I'm done. And I was downstairs in the living room after I destroyed the house. And I was on my hands and knees. Never go down to my hands and knees, like literally on my hands and knees. And I put on worship music. And as soon as the worship music started, I just got wrecked. And all of a sudden I just started sobbing and I was just sobbing uncontrollably. And in that moment, while the song was going on, I actually put my hands out like this. My hands were outstretched like I was on a cross. And in that moment, I had my eyes closed. It was probably 2, 3 in the morning. I felt the supernatural presence of Jesus Christ. I felt arms come around me and just hold me. And that was the first time in my life where I truly experienced the Father's love, when he just literally held me. And I just, after I felt those arms come around me and just hold me, I just kept sobbing. I just kept sobbing. And that's when I knew Jesus Christ was real. And that's when I was like, I want to get to know this guy. I actually want to get to know this guy for real. I don't want to get to know the version I was taught about. and I heard about and that I talk about, but I actually want to get to know this guy because he's here holding me in the worst moment of my entire life.

There's so much déjà vu there. When I hit rock bottom, I remember being out on a walk when it all hit me and I just broke down sobbing and literally walked for like an hour and a half just crying. That wound up culminating in the first discussion with my wife about Everything that I'd done wrong and everything that I wanted to change. And, in the mornings, I had this lounge in the basement. I had worship music, I had incense just because I'm very olfactory-driven in that sense. I had candles and I would spend 20 to 30 minutes in the basement every single morning worshiping and praying and crying. And reading my Bible. And don't get me wrong, that's not what every morning looks like for me anymore, not because I've grown farther from God, but because that intense period of healing required that amount of passion and immersion. And kind of similar to you, those months were some of the first months I really truly felt like I was deeply connected to God in a different way than I'd ever been having grown up. In a Christian household. And, I mean, the reason I think this is important to talk about is I think there's so many men and women out there who just haven't experienced that level of a passionate connection to God, right? Some people will say, oh, the source, divine, whatever. No, I'm talking about the God of the Bible who sent his one and only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for our sins. That God, that scary God who's often portrayed as the the judge in the sky with the big beard or whatever. It can be a deeply passionate relationship. And, I mean, really, that's what saved my ass in the long run, that and a very, very graceful and merciful wife.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I say because I have people reach out to me like, oh, can you help my husband? And all this stuff. And, what I say is, hey, what we can pray for is that he will have an infiltration of the Holy Spirit. Because that's what happened. It sounds like that's what happened with me, with you as well. We've had an infiltration of the Holy Spirit, his holiness, his overwhelming perfect love. Just, it's so, it was so overwhelming. And I tried to explain, ask somebody, I said, why was I crying though? What was all that? And they're like, oh, that's ice melting. And I was like, that's a good, that's a very good visual. And that, because now I cry all the time. It's ridiculous. I'm like, I'm like, again, I'm strong, I can get it done. I'm like firm and, you know, I'm a man, I think, as well. But at the same time, I've got this like soft side to me, which I like a lot, to be honest. It was almost like the sensitive side of me got beaten out of me. I don't know when, but, um, I have this like sensitivity to the Holy Spirit where even like watching a scary movie, I can't watch them anymore because I'll get warfare.

Yeah, join the club. Like last horror movie for me was like 11 years ago. Never walked into one since. And that's because after going through that transformation, I watched one and it was with me for months. It's really weird how when you've got kind of a little bit of a pure slate, how much more that kind of stuff affects you.

Yeah, demonic influence. Yeah, you created a door, you open a door. Yeah. And they'll come in through a lot of things. But yeah, I think for me, practically now, I'm glad you talked about your routine. That's probably one of the biggest practical differences. I'm a 4:00 a.m. guy. I spend the first hour of my day with God and it's honestly the best part of my day. It's almost like it's my vice. I used to have a hard time waking up early and now I'm up within 2 to 3 minutes max of 4:00 AM and I race to get to my— I have like, it's not a prayer closet, but it's my chair in my room and I spend the first hour with the Lord. And I read a chapter of the Bible. I try and sit in silence. One of the commands in the Bible is be still. So I just try and be still. And some days I get so overwhelmed by the Holy Spirit and his presence, I just cry. I try and pray at least 12 minutes. I read some science on neural pathways being reformed. You probably could explain it 10 times better, but I'm like, okay, so I pray 12 minutes. I read a chapter of the Bible. I just do some journaling because that slows me down, helps me reflect. Connect, just be in tune with what's going on in my life and my emotions. I give gratitude. I do a bunch of stuff, but it's time with God in silence. There's no agenda. Maybe there's a bit of an agenda, I guess, but it's just time with him and I, and it's the best part of my day. And I didn't do that before. I used to have a devotional. I always had a devotional like 5, 10 minutes. It was like, okay, checkbox, checkbox. This, I can't start my day without doing this 7 days a week.

Yeah. I think in the world that you and I operate in, the whole health, fitness, longevity, biohacking world, so many people are obsessed with the sleep score. And, I'll just name it right now. And, I'll also name that I take an afternoon siesta. I try to get some kind of relaxation in between 2:00 and 3:00 p.m. because when you get up early and when you're working hard, it can kind of drain you and you can be kind of hangry around the kids by dinnertime if you're up at 4:00 a.m. worshiping And, not able to go to bed till at least 10:00 p.m., which is the life of a lot of parents. But, the spiritual benefits derived from carving out that time for quiet time, even if it means your Whoop is yelling at you that you didn't nail the ideal sleep score, I'll just come right out and name it. There's a lot more to life than an ideal sleep score, especially if it means That's the time when the personal transformation that turns you into the person that you're supposed to be actually occurs.

Yeah, dude, I've never had more joy in my life. And again, I know your readers, your listeners are going to hate me for this, but like I used to have checked my score, I threw it all in the garbage. And there's seasons where I might like, where I'm trying to dial in, I'll, you know, maybe check my stat, but like I'm full with like life and joy and peace and like absent of fear and panic and anxiety and all these other things ever since I just started pouring to like scripture memory and spending time with God and worship. It's crazy. Like, I, I go all day and I do have 2 weeks a month where I don't have my kids, but on the weeks with my kids, I've got 3 kids, they got activities. And, you know, God's given me some extra supernatural dose of, I don't know what it is, but Holy Ghost smoke.

Yeah, it is a little bit supernatural. I'm super curious though because your business, at least from what I perceive, revolved around teaching people the very things that you're kind of now decrying in terms of what you shouldn't have your identity wrapped up in, right? You taught wealth, you taught health, you taught body composition, 6-pack abs, getting ripped, et cetera. When all of this happened, obviously, I would imagine that when you realize that that's not the place where your identity should be wrapped up, that if you keep teaching other people how to do that stuff, it would feel really inauthentic. So, how did your business change through all this?

Well, I wasn't even conscious. The stuff we're talking about right now, Ben, I wasn't conscious of any of this. During my fitness days, I taught disciplines. I taught habit change. I taught mechanics. I just taught like, do These inputs and you'll get these outputs there. I didn't teach any of the spiritual side or, you know, I didn't teach any of that with money. Same thing. It was just like skills. These are— you don't need to have a good spiritual life to make money. I mean, there's gazillions of people who are billionaires in the world that are atheists. Like, the ways of the world do work. You can make a lot of wealth without God. You don't need God to make money. Like, I think that's something that was like a very, very Like eye-opening thing. You don't need God to get shredded 6-pack abs, right? You can just follow systems and you can get to where you want to be. So I had to like kind of deconstruct like my motives and, you know, why I do things. And I could go into that if you want with starting with the body. But, um,

yeah, I mean, I actually am curious about that because, uh, you know, so it's interesting to hear the perspective of somebody who already made it, right? You've had the body, you've had the money, you've had the perfect family on social media, and then you taught this to other people. So yeah, what exactly did change as far as your approach goes?

Yeah, let's start with the fitness side because I think a lot of men are obsessed with their bodies. I know you wanted to chat, I think, about this. This was a good question. And, I actually think they're more so at war With their bodies. And I think a lot of women can relate to this too, where, you know, they look in the mirror. What do women do when they look in the mirror? Oh, I look fat today. I need to lose weight. I need to eat healthier, right? I need to train harder, right? For the ultramarathon guys, that endurance, it's like, I need a bigger race. I need a longer race, right? I got to set a record now, right? So again, none of those pursuits are wrong, right? Training hard is not wrong, right? Eating healthy is not wrong. Taking your health and fitness to the next level, like Wanting to look better, running a marathon, these are all beautiful things. But here's the thing, they can become very, very dark when they become a way of determining your worthiness. Now your worth is based on how you size up. So I think that's the big difference. Now, how you look in the mirror, how you feel that day, whether you're keeping up to everybody else fitness-wise, business-wise, when that dictates Your worthiness—that's when it's become dark. Oh crap! My my scale went; my my scores are off. All this stuff. Oh, I'm not making this kind of money anymore, and that's the trap. So with fitness, you think that you're doing these things for your body. I'm doing these things for my body, though. No, this is—I'm doing it for my body. But a lot of the time, you're doing them because of what you're allowing your body to tell you about yourself. And that's the shift you have to make. Your body is absolutely something you need to steward. It's something you train, it's something you nourish, it's something you strengthen, it's something you take care of, but your body doesn't get to tell you what you're worth. So you can pursue an incredible body without asking your body to validate your identity. And I think that's the shift for me.

I think one of the practical things I would throw in there is that You shouldn't feel guilty that you feel neurologically better on a day that you say work out in the morning versus a day that you don't. That does not mean fitness is an idol and you're attached to it and need it to be happy. But, I think that if you're working out and that's paired with a lot of time spent inspecting your body, looking at yourself in the mirror, feeling feelings of unhappiness if you notice something about your body, I think for me, that's the differentiator, right? Feeling good when you leave the gym, that does not mean that your worth is tied up in the way that you look or even in your level of fitness. But then, feeling depressed when you see a lower VO2 max score or higher body fat percentage or even in the day and age we live in, my telomeres are shortening at an increased rate and I'm aging. If fitness is something that helps you feel good, be resilient to stress, be able to tackle life more effectively and adventure more completely, great. But, I think that body obsession or obsession with the metrics and then if you feel that little kind of depressive feeling when things aren't shifted the way that you feel, I think that's in stark contrast to The happiness or like the dopamine that you might feel when you leave the gym, which it would, you know, the former I think is an issue. The latter I think is how God made us, right? To move.

We are, our bodies are living temples where the Holy Spirit lives, you know. We were not bought at a price, or sorry, we were, we are not our own, our own, we were bought at a price. So honor the Lord by keeping your bodies holy and honorable like that. That is all biblical commands.

How did your perspective on money change or business in general?

I think I had what I call an orphan, alpha orphan spirit. The alpha orphan spirit is when it's the way of like a lot of the alpha guys that we know. And it's the mindset of if it's gonna happen, it's up to me. If it's meant to be, it's up to me. It's that self-generated willpower. If I'm going to make $1 million, all on me. If I'm going to make $10 million, it's all on me. So, the problem with this mindset is that it does not believe that you are a son of a God in heaven who is your Father. And a father, if you— you're a dad, right? You got a couple kids, right?

Yeah.

I bet you wouldn't let your kids starve. I bet you wouldn't let something bad happen to your kids.

Yeah.

Why? Because you're a good dad. You're a really good dad. Well, we have a great dad, and not only is he our provider and our protector and our promoter and our sustainer and a refiner, like, he wants the best for us. And if you don't have a relationship with your father, then you're going to assume that I'm an orphan and I need to fend for myself. I need to take care of myself. So right, I don't care. So a lot of men who build a lot of wealth, it comes from like, you have to be in control, right? I have to be in control. Now where does control come from? Control comes from fear. It's a protective mechanism. Where does fear stem from? Fear stems from unbelief. Unbelief in what? Unbelief in what? Unbelief that you are a son. So, we have so many men who are lost, lonely, and leaderless because they don't understand they have a Father in heaven who's their protector, who's their provider, who's their promoter. And we could go on. When you start to study the Bible from the lens of like how God's character shows up in so many stories, you start to discover the character of God and you're like, that's my Father. That's my Father. I have access to that guy. I have access to that dad. He wants a relationship with me too. So, I think in business, One of the things I discovered in business was that I'm not an owner. I'm a manager. All right? I don't own anything. It's his to give. It's God's to give, and it's mine to manage. I am not a possessor. I'm a steward. So when I started to realize it's his to give, mine to manage, I wanted to be a good steward of the gifts, of the talents, of the opportunities that God has been giving me. And I want to steward them well. And if he believes that I'm doing a good job with them, maybe he'll bless me with more. I'll— Ben, I'll take a bigger house. I've lived in a big— I'll definitely take a bigger house. I'll take a nicer car. But like, if God doesn't believe that if I give you this Lamborghini, Vince, your ego's going to go straight to your head and you're going to forget about me, and I want a relationship with you, so I'm actually going to protect you, and we're going to start to rebuild this business a little slowly. more slowly than you want to because I'm protecting you from your pride destroying you. That's what a good dad does.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it'd be very, very similar to like if you have children and you have some wealth and because of that your children don't experience the same discomfort that maybe you grew up with, then you do run the risk of silver spoon syndrome and a soft, fragile young human who might break at the slightest amount of stress because They never grew up with it. And so, as a parent in that scenario, you often do have to fabricate discomfort like ice plunges and early mornings and workouts and stuff that a kid doesn't necessarily want to do and doesn't even really maybe yet realize is going to make them a more impactful human being in the future. And, God can work a little bit similarly sometimes. He will put you through the wringer or at least deny you the things that he has the ability to give you Right. But that are not in your best interest in terms of at that time allowing you to become the person that God has called you to be.

Yeah. And so, I think what I started reflecting on was like in this, you know, for business, if God truly is my provider, my protector, and, you know, he's the source of all good things, he's the ultimate giver, I want to partner with God. What does it look like to partner with God? And I discovered this verse, Proverbs 10:22. You'll like this one. The blessings of the Lord bring wealth without painful toil for it. So while I made all this money, I'm like, it came with a lot of painful toil. And I started just to study like God's way of doing business. And I started learning all these interesting things. And that was like the very first one. Well, one, God wants to do business with me. He wants to partner with me and he wants to co-labor, co-union. And I'm like, okay, I could have God's participation in my business. Like, what do I want from him? Like, I want his wisdom. I want his under— I want his Counsel. Like, I want his protection. So I started to like just invite God into like, hey, is this from you? Is this opportunity from you? Like, where are we going? God's gonna advance his kingdom. God's already here. He's advancing his kingdom. He's accomplishing his purposes with or without Vince. So there's this invitation of like, I want to help advance God's kingdom. So what does that look like? Well, what are you doing on earth, God, that I can be a part of? Like, why do you put me here? What can I be a part of that will So I'm like, God, where do you need me? Like, I'm now like a soldier. Like, place me, put me where you want me. So practically, I'm like, do you want me to still help people make money with growing their fitness businesses? And I do feel like I had God's grace on that business. Like, there was a hand on that business. Like, we were making so much money, I don't even know where it was coming from. Like, it was insane. And I believe that was God's hand of Of love, his grace. It was like undeserved. And then near the end, it was about year 9, all of a sudden, like, it was like everything seized up. Like, we couldn't book calls. All of a sudden, everybody was broke. All of a sudden, you know, people are leaving the program. All of a sudden, I'm like, what is going on here? And then I realized this assignment is over. And I started reading about like concepts like necessary endings, expiration dates, new assignments. And I just started to realize, I think God is redirecting me, but I'm like, what do I do? What am I going to do now? So, God graciously—

And this happened after your divorce and move?

It was, yeah. So, well, I would say the business was fully finalized quite recently in the last couple of months. All contracts are fulfilled. I announced it last September 2025 that the mastermind's shutting down. We stopped looking for clients. So that would have been probably about year three of my separation. So the business was still very strong when the separation happened, but like people started like strong leaders want strong leaders. So I had a lot of like you know big dogs, if you will, in my program. And as soon as they detect that the leader is wounded, they go find a stronger leader. And I'm like, oh, I start. So I had some big dudes who were like, "Hey Vince, I you know heard through the grapevine you're going through a divorce." Your marriage is kind of on the rocks. I had one guy ask for a $50,000 refund, and he was like, "I um I need a stronger leader," and he's a buddy of mine. Just straight up, he says, "I need a stronger leader," and he went to hire somebody else for twice the price, and that really stung. And I'm like, "What do I do?" So it hit me; it hit me hard. And that was kind of like the beginning when like the big dogs started leaving, going to other mentorships, and I'm like. Is this what I'm meant to do? And I started to see like God was slowly exiting me. He's like, "Hey, you've done your thing here. You've done a great job, but like I've got something else for you." And that's when I was very intrigued by partnering with God and figuring out, okay, where are we going? Because I need some help because I was getting exhausted myself. I'm like, I don't I don't want to teach. I don't want to help fit pros make money anymore. It was getting exhausting, and I felt like I'd outgrown. space. So I was ready. So it's like, now I'm starting to see God like look out for me. It's like, I know you're tired. And I rested, bro, the last year. The last year I've just like chilled. And, and I, and I told my girlfriend and she— and I'm like, I can't believe like this last year I've like barely worked. And she said, didn't you— weren't you praying for that? I'm like, yeah, I was asking God for rest. And I'm like, just dawned on me, wow, God heard me.

Uh, no, you just mentioned that you have a girlfriend So, I'm assuming that maybe future marriage is on your radar or something like that. But, I guess this might be a little bit of a vulnerable question, but as a man who's now pretty dedicated to God, to the teachings of Jesus, how do you approach the sexual aspect of being divorced and then being on The dating scene again?

That's a great question. So, well, just for full transparency, for the first year after the separation, um, I didn't date. I cut out— I actually came off TRT, I came off of alcohol, and I came off of caffeine. I was off caffeine for 3 months. That's a lot.

Caffeine, alcohol, no dating. That's a lot, man.

It was brutal, dude. I was in bed for like 3 weeks. The caffeine Caffeine was the worst. That was the hardest, one of the hardest things in my life coming off of caffeine for three weeks. It took about nine months to finally have normal energy. I'm sure you like could explain that. It was brutal. Yeah, I cut. I just wanted to figure out what does life feel like operating from like calm and natural energy, and that was like something that was something a therapist told me. She said you can't lead society to freedom if you're addicted to the chemicals of the society. Something like that, and I'm like. Interesting. I was like, interesting. So I'm addicted to a lot of chemicals, and a lot of my success is because I'm like jacked up on 300-400 milligrams of caffeine every day, and I'm on TRT, and it helps me with my physique and how I look and my confidence. And I'm like on all this stuff, and I wasn't taking pharmaceutical, but I was taking enough stuff to feel better, feel better, and I feel different, have an edge. So I wanted to see what was life like just Calm. And for, like, to be honest, for a long time it just sucked. It was horrible. It was so slow. It was so boring. I couldn't put together a thought. I couldn't close a sales deal. Like, I was stuttering. And then I started to realize, wow, I've built up a lot of my success from pressure because all these things help you drive harder. And I found like I created a lot of success with pressure. You know, I think going back to your question was like, After the first year, I got my own place. We were in the same house for a while, and then we got separate places. And then, you know, all of a sudden I'm, I'm like 43 single, dude. And you've got 2 weeks a month to yourself. I have money. Like, I'm a pretty good catch when you go out. Like, what do you do? Like, I don't work. You know, I, you know, I have a business, you know. And where do you live? What neighborhood do you live in? Like, oh wow. And then like, and then you're normal and you're You're calm and you can emotionally connect to a woman. All of a sudden I was like a catch. And so, and I'm like, all of a sudden these girls are pumping me up. Oh my gosh, there's no guys like you out there. So a part of it was probably good for my confidence to realize that I wasn't like, you know, because I really beat myself up. So, but then it was also a distraction and I realized like I didn't like being lonely. So I went out on a bunch of dates in year 2 and, but they weren't Christian girls and, you know, And then I just realized like I'm doing what I was doing when I was 25. I'm spending a thousand bucks a week on dinner dates, fooling around. I've got three kids. I'm like, what are you doing? And I like I just quickly realized like this could be a path. Like I could keep feeding this, and I could I could date like I did in my twenties multiple girls at once. And, and by the grace of God, we got out of Toronto because a lot of this was happening all back in— it was all happening back in Toronto. We got out of Toronto. I honestly feel like a big part of my story is God rescued me. Like, he did for me what I couldn't do for myself. And we got out of Toronto because there was a lot of— there was some sin. There was a, you know, enough sin in that city that I was using to distract myself Not healthy ways of healing that we finally got out of Toronto. We got to Tennessee. You know, when I got down to Tennessee, yeah, it wasn't much longer after until I saw this video of a girl on. Actually, let me back up a bit. Yeah, I saw a video of a girl who was talking about Jesus, and I could just like. I could— something was different. She had the Holy Spirit all over her. And I was like really intrigued. And I wanted, you know, I was seeing who is this girl? And I noticed she was a friend of a girl, of a girlfriend that I knew. And they were looking for a live event to run an event. And I had my house and I contacted them. I said, you guys want to come over and check out my house? Because I was like, I gave the house back up to God. I said, hey, you use this house for whatever purposes because it wasn't selling. And I'm like, I need your help. We are hemorrhaging money. And these girls come over, and Ellie and Britley, they come over to my house, and they liked it. We started talking, and I told them way too much about my story for the first time meeting them. And then on the way out, they said, can we pray for you? And I never had— Ellie's 10 years younger than me. I'm 46. She's 35. And Brittany's 30. So I never had young girls like— they say, can we pray for you? I'm like, where, right here? And they're like, yeah. So they both prayed over me out loud on the front porch, and they said this beautiful prayer. These 2 girls prayed for me. And, um, that was like the first week I got down to Tennessee. So it was like a couple months her— I started going to their Bible study. I'm like, I want to meet— I want to see what these girls are all about. So they had a Monday night Bible study, started going, and I just started to observe and I just started to like watch. And there was just like, these girls weren't just normal Christians. Like these girls were crucifying their flesh every day and they were laying their lives down for Jesus and they prayed in the Spirit. They just like, there was something different. These girls were actually living out their faith. So we became friends, had the event, and then, you know, I, asked Ellie out on a date. And we've been dating for coming up to— it's been over a year, actually, October 18th, this 4 days from today, we've been dating for a year.

Wow, man. That is so cool. Welcome to America.

Yeah, no kidding.

Welcome to the Bible Belt.

Crazy.

Yeah. Man, I mean, there's obviously so much wisdom and practical experience you've accumulated along this journey.

I just realized, I don't think I answered your question. Did you want me to talk about the purity stuff and just like the sexuality part of like our relationship?

Yeah, actually, actually, that's a good point. Like, I'm assuming you said it's Ellie.

Yep. Yep.

Ellie. So, so you guys are not sleeping together?

Here's the coolest thing. I have the best relationship in the whole wide world. And I know that's kind of exposing me because like, we're not married. You know, we've been dating since October 18th. So I can appreciate if people are like rolling their eyes. I have been married for 12+ years, you know, separated for quite a few after that. I will tell you that this relationship, I've never been in a more peaceful relationship. I've never been in an easier relationship. What's really cool that it's rooted in something way bigger than both of us, and it's related in our relationships with Jesus. And I will just be honest, like, I slept with pretty much every girl I've ever dated. I pretty much like this. So her and I, for people listening, you know, I'll just give you the punchline. Not only haven't we slept together, but I haven't kissed her. The reason for that is because first of all, when I met her, she had this video that went viral and it was talking about the secrets that women wish men knew. And one of them was that they wish, at least women that are Christians wanting to walk in purity, is that a man would hold a boundary and that a man would actually say, no, no, no, no, baby, we're not going there tonight. I love you too much. That's what women are secretly craving. And she had a little TikTok video It went like millions of views. And I'm like, I could be that guy. So I've always had this desire to lead a woman in purity because I get disciplined. I'm disciplined in my business, disciplined in my body, but I was never disciplined with sexual integrity. Now I did come off of all pornography after my separation. I put blockers on and I hadn't looked at it for over— it was over 3, 3 and a half years. I just cut it out of my life. Which was a very good step. But when I met her, we connected on that and I'm like, I want to lead this girl in purity. I want to be the man that actually says, hey, I'm interested in you and not your body. Because of this, I truly believe that purity is a blessing. I believe that this unlocks so much wisdom and femininity. And grace and loyalty in a woman when she truly feels that she is loved for who she is and not for her body. And I think that's one thing a lot of men are missing out who are like, yeah, this isn't a big deal, it's just physical. But you don't know what it's doing for her. And for me, I also have a theory too, uh, Ben. I truly believe that like this is the ultimate way to break off lust because I talk to men every day, you know, their divorce, their marriages are falling apart. A lot of it has to do with sexual perversion, lust, pornography, and all this stuff. And when a man walks in purity, you can defeat the battle of lust. My battle with lust has improved so much since we started walking in purity because I see women the same way Jesus sees them, as daughters, right? Anybody who has daughters do not look at their daughters lustfully. That's sick, right? But like, guess what? Like, you can actually have eyes like Jesus, and you can see women the same way like you see your daughters. And it takes sanctification, it takes healing, it takes understanding that women were not meant to be consumed. They were, they were, they were meant to be protected. We're not meant to be predators. So, you know, I'm not saying I'm perfect. You know, I notice a beautiful woman when a beautiful woman walks in the room. But this has like, I have been able to get so much more victory. I'm, let's just put it this way, I'm experiencing way more victory than I ever have walking in purity. And now not carrying all the shame that a man carries when he's, you know, watching porn, right? It's right. And shame feeds in silence, secrecy, and self-judgment. And when I was able just to expose it and root it out of my life, I was able to attract a woman like that. I'm like, Wow. So we just have this really cool deep relationship. It's very special. Yes, we're not dating anymore. I don't believe in dating unless— my theory with dating is that you date until you reveal that she's not marriage material. If it takes you a 30-second text message, you end it. If it takes you 3 dates and she's like, oh, she's not marriage material, you end it. If it takes 4 months and you're like, okay, she's not the one, then you end it. So I don't believe in dating just to date. I believe in dating to figure out if she's the one. And, um, we have the same mindset and, and we have this amazing, amazing relationship I never even knew was possible. Let's put it that way. And again, like I said, we don't cross those lines.

Yeah, I think it forges a path towards a stronger bond, uh, if you do get married as well. Like, my wife and I didn't have sex before we got married and One reason for that is that I think you can train yourself from a dopaminergic standpoint the same way that if you wake up and the first thing you do is grab your phone and turn it on, you're literally training your brain to operate on very small bursts of dopamine the rest of the day, reducing willpower, increasing decision-making fatigue, et cetera. And, from a relationship standpoint, if you train your brain to succumb to dopaminergic urges or even to, in a somewhat rapid sense, serially switch from partner to partner, you can carry a lot of that into a long-term relationship. So, I actually think it's a very, very good relationship tool, especially for people who want to be married for a long time to avoid sex before marriage and to remain pure. And, I'm glad that you're putting that out there. Yeah. We're kind of tight on time, but I know you're putting a lot out there in terms of your path, what you've learned. I mean, you're on Facebook, you're on Instagram. I believe you have a podcast now. And, I'll link to all that. If you're listening, you could go to BenGreenfieldLife.com/VincePodcast, like V-I-N-C-E Podcast. I will link to all that. Vince, is there one place in particular that you think is the best central hub for people to hunt you down and follow your journey or learn more from you?

Yeah, Vince Del Monte on Instagram, and there'll be a link in my bio to our school group. I'm focused on one thing this year, building a membership site up for men, and that's probably the best way to get ahold of me.

Cool. I will link to that. That's the school, like the online learning app?

Yep.

Sweet. Alright, cool. Dude, thank you so much for doing this. It's been incredible to see your journey. And, I think you're changing lives in a much more meaningful way as you know than you might have when teaching people how to make money and be fit. So, keep up the good work, brother. I really pray that God would support you in everything you're doing.

Thank you, man. It's an honor to be on here, man. I look up to you. You're an amazing man, amazing dad, and so many people look up to you as well. So, keep up the great work.

Cool. Thanks, bro.

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