Beyond The Athlete EP37: Jim Rai on Sports, growth, Purpose & Why Your Soul Matters

What's up guys, Coach David here, and I would like to introduce you all to a new episode of the Beyond the Athlete podcast. I'm your host, Coach David, as you all know. And today, guys, well, first of all, Happy New Year. It's been a while we've obviously seen each other. Hope you guys have had a good start to the year. Um, this year we are back with our Beyond the Athlete podcast with some amazing, amazing guests. We've got a lot of surprises for you guys, some amazing conversations, some amazing interviews, individuals, male, female athletes, non-athletes, entrepreneurs, creatives, you name it. We've got the whole lot for you this year. And this year we're going to be a lot more consistent with how we put out our content. So stay tuned to everything that we're doing on our platforms and our socials as well. And for those of you, if this is your first time watching, welcome. And I hope you guys enjoy this episode and previous episodes as well and future episodes as well. Today, I'm joined by 2 gentlemen, one of them who is my co-host and the other who is a guest of ours. And I will first of all introduce our guest, a gentleman called Jim Rai, chairman of Vitality Esports. But he's not just in esports, he's also an author. I would say retired lawyer or lawyer as well.

I wouldn't say retired.

Okay, okay. No, maybe not retired.

Lawyer as well.

No, no, no. Lawyers don't retire. Yeah, it's true. Lawyers don't retire. Lawyer as well. And I'll get him to introduce himself a bit more because I know he does quite a lot of things. We've spoken off the camera about a few things as well, and he's got some amazing things happening this year also as well and beyond that I would like to share. And then to my right is my co-host George George Jumbo, who is in everything to do with sports, sports management, sports PR. He's also my colleague as well. We've been doing some amazing projects from the start of this year as well, which I think you guys should stay tuned to as well. Some big big things happening this year. But yeah, welcome gentlemen to the Beyond the Athlete podcast.

Thank you.

Thank you, David.

How you feeling today?

Feeling good.

Good. Great.

It's raining outside, but. Hopefully when this comes out, it'll be sunny.

Amazing, amazing, amazing. So obviously, I'll give you a breakdown of Beyond the Athlete. Beyond the Athlete started off as a basketball podcast, and we realized that we wanted to expand it into all sports and beyond sports as well, which hence the title Beyond the Athlete. We wanted to really dive into the mindset and the person in the sports, whether they're an athlete that's played sports before or they just are in that space, that industry.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, so that's the reason why we started this. And for us, we want to showcase to a lot of the young people and people in general across the world. We have people that watch and listen from places like as far as Aruba, people from Italy, United States, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, like you can name it. There's so many people all over the world that actually listen to this. And it's amazing how it's growing. But yeah, the conversation— this is very conversational. So don't feel—

be relaxed.

We're in a relaxed setting. We're actually in the Red Bull office as well, Red Bull London. Thank you for having us as well. But yeah, Jim, it's been amazing. Obviously, I met you last year at George's event. And we had a great conversation that evening. And I think if the event went on for 24 hours, we would have still been having a conversation throughout that.

Yeah, well, you might have fallen asleep. No, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no. But, um, I like to always start my, um, conversation with, um, the beginning, um, growing up as a child, your childhood, um, because I always feel like something around being— when growing up as a child will always kind of like, um, what's the word, impact the trajectory of what— who you are today.

So what was that like?

What were your parents like in terms of like your childhood? What was your relationship like with them.

Wow. How long have I got?

As long as you want.

Okay, so I was, um, thank you very much, Steve, for that.

No worries.

I was brought up by a lady called Sant Kaur Bajwa. She was my grandmother. She passed away in 2013 at the age of 115 years of age.

Wow, amazing.

And, um, and she raised 5 boys Unfortunately, her daughter, my mother, passed away at the age of 36 in 1972, and so she had no choice.

Mm-hmm.

Well, she did have a choice, but, you know, she decided to, to take on the mantle of raising us and 5 boys, and that gave her a sense of purpose. And so this, this one of the reasons why, you know, I was so keen on coming on this podcast was A sense of purpose is everything, everything about life, when you wake up in the morning to the time you go to sleep. And her sense of purpose was to raise 5 boys, to feed them, to make sure their clothes are set, to make sure they go to school, to make sure they're good human beings with a good value system. And she did a good job.

Hmm.

And so I wrote a book on her and her value systems and what was it that made her look so young at such an old age, what made her drive the way she was, she didn't drive by the way, but her drive and what made her want to do that and I think it was the fact that she ate well.

Mm-hmm.

She had She kept the traditional value systems going back into the, you know, in the 19th century.

Mm-hmm.

She never went out and had artificial food. She made sure that her mental state was always in a good place. She kept relevant. She never retired, and I think If you don't retire your mind, your body will not retire.

Hmm.

If you always have a sense of purpose, it will give you the drive that you need, and her sense of purpose was to make sure that she brought up 5 kids. So that was my upbringing, and I had an amazing father who, he lived with laughter, love, and service of others, and so watching him in his world, the way he was disciplined, not just what he said, it was what is the way he walked, his talk was amazing. So that's, that was basically the 2 major influences in my family along with my brothers.

Okay, amazing. How many brothers?

There's 5 of us in total.

Oh wow.

Well, there's 6, there's 6 really. There's one additional one who I never knew wasn't my brother until recently. He was our cousin brother.

Okay, where are you on the rankings?

I'm number 4. Yeah, I'm one— I'm the youngest of a twin.

Yeah, sounds like Man United, number 4.

You're the youngest of a twin?

Yeah, I'm the youngest of a twin. Yes, he's 11 minutes older than I am.

Identical?

And I wouldn't say so. I can show you a picture, you can tell me. But, but he's 11 minutes older and he tells me to respect his elders. So, uh, it's, you know, I've had to live with that. But But living with 5 brothers, we lived on top of a shop. We lived in a place called Southall, a bit rough and ready. The school we went to was a good school. It was Villiers High School, it was a good school. But if you went down the wrong path, then, you know, there's no coming back from it.

Yeah.

And we were in that arena where there were things that would entice you, addictions that you could easily get involved in. And but I held, I held strong in not getting involved in that because I kind of always felt that I'm better than that and I didn't need it. I do like to, you know, I don't mind a drop of alcohol every now and then. However, I kept a discipline and I realized that everything in moderation is good. So I grew up in that environment. I grew up in a shop. Most of my time was working downstairs rather than studying. I decided to become a snooker player.

Amazing.

And I used to hustle for a living, and then I thought that was my life. And because I spent so much time in the snooker halls, I finally, unfortunately, was told to leave college because I wasn't good enough to stay in college because I was spending too much time in the snooker halls. And one of the teachers in the college said to me, Jim, you're only good enough to stack apples and oranges, and I suggest you go back to your dad's shop and you stack apples and oranges, and that's all you're good enough to do. And just those words They didn't, they didn't break me, they actually made me.

Hmm.

And I thought, I know I'm not just good enough for apples and oranges, I can do a lot more than that. And what I did was something just switched on that particular day, and from having the worst grades in the world, right, I spent 6 months and locked myself in the room and I studied because I needed to prove her wrong. But it was actually me I was trying to prove something to, that I'm better than that. And after 6 months, I went into those exams and I basically topped the charts on every single exam, just to the extent that I was given an award by the Duke of Edinburgh, whatever his name was. And, uh, and I got the highest marks in the whole county, and my dad was there to see it.

Hmm.

And that was one of the proudest days proudest times for my dad and for myself. And that's what then excelled me.

Amazing, amazing. It's so interesting when you mentioned about your, um, your teacher as well. Um, if you know how many times I've heard that story of a teacher saying that you're not— this is what you're going to be doing, you're not going to get to that, to a certain level. Um, yeah, we've heard one yesterday as well. One of our, one of our colleagues, she was told that she would never get to where she is now. Now she's helping so many young women in fitness, like doing amazing things. Just this month alone, she was able to give about £6,000 to charity.

Wow.

Just by herself, just by doing fitness. And now she's raising other young women to do the same as well. So it just shows that there's power in words, but it's also how do you take those words. Does it make you or does it break you? Yeah.

So, so, uh, I mean, my journey's been Pretty interesting and colorful, but it's been you know I wouldn't swap it for the world. I I became a lawyer. I became a successful lawyer. I retired in 2011, and one of the things that went into my head was we just we just said that you weren't retired.

Now well now we know that he's retired. Maybe I wasn't meant to say that. That's why. But he's.

The thing is that I'm helping out so many people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not for money, but you know.

That's okay. Um, so I, I, um, I, I remember I was sitting, I was in my office, beautiful office in, um, in Southwark, just opposite Southwark Cathedral. I was looking outside, looking at the river, and I was thinking, Jim, now that you've done this and now you've Succeeded in, in the law and you've done everything you needed to do and you've become a senior partner and, you know, what else do you want to do? Because time is limited. Do you just want to carry on being a lawyer, carry on earning money, carry on buying a bigger house, a bigger car? What actually do you want to do? Because ultimately it's about what I want to do.

Yeah.

What fulfills my soul, what nourishes my soul, what makes me wake up in the morning and feel good about what I'm doing, right? And 2 things came to mind. I mean, they're really random. One was I wanted to go out all over the world and help people, those people that can't be reached. And the second thing I wanted to do was I wanted to eat really good lunches in good restaurants every afternoon.

That's good.

That sounds like me.

with a glass of wine and a nice movie, and guess what happens? Exactly those 2 things happen to me. That's what I wanted and that's what happened. And last year or the year before, I think facilitated, helped give 58,000 people eyesight from Nepal to Bhutan.

Amazing.

To Ladakh, Ethiopia, Ghana, all over the world, and I brought the money together through the Tej Kohli Foundation and Tej Kohli Root Foundation, and I brought the doctors together, Dr. Root, and we did that.

Amazing.

You know, helping one is amazing, helping 58,000 and the impact that has on all the other families and their families around them and their environment, the rate of return on investment is off the charts.

That's amazing.

So that was manifestation.

That's amazing. That's amazing. And one of the major things that you said is helping people. Like, people don't realize the value in helping people. And the value is not the value that you get for yourself, it's the value of you've helped one— if, like you said, you've helped one person, that person has 1,000 people connected to them that they can help. The 1,000 people have 10,000 people to them that they can help as well.

Correct.

So it's, it's amazing.

And then it's paying it forward, Exactly. Pay it forward. So I've got this philosophy, right? And I might as well, you know, while I'm on the— on this show or podcast, right, I might as well tell you now. And it's just come to me recently, and, you know, you need to listen to this carefully. So we're made up— we're made up of 2 parts. Part one is our physical being. Our physical being is our DNA, our ancestry, right? All the thousands of years of why we're here today. What you do and say and how you behave in your body language, someone was doing 500 years ago exactly like the way you're doing it today, because that's the way it goes, right?

Mm-hmm.

Then you're made up of your upbringing and your peer group and your parenting and the teachings and, and, you know, so your DNA and your cell makeup and your brain is wired up from all these different things, but that's your physical, that's your physical, and that has 20, 30 languages from anger, revenge, pain, love, perseverance, patience, jealousy, ego, all that. There's lots of languages that your brain has, right?

Mm-hmm.

Then the second part, and that, that once that's— once you die, your body dies, it goes where it goes. That's it, end of you. But there's a second part which is called the soul.

Hmm.

The soul just travels through, and it's just rest— it's just in your body at the moment. Your soul is in Dave's body, it's resting there, and it will pass once you pass through to somewhere else. However, it only has 2 languages, the language of truth and the language of love. And when you get to a point in life where you give that soul a voice, the 25 languages, they, they part like the sea and they allow that voice to come through. When you allow that voice to come through and speak is when you've arrived. That's my view. You're connected to the universe. This is not about religion.

Yeah.

This is not, this is just about a spiritual feeling, and I'm hitting 60 this year, and in my 60 years, I understand that now. I understand that when I speak with love and I speak with truth and authenticity, my authenticity, my truth, love for me is when I'm at my strongest.

Amazing, just off the back of that, There's a community group that we're part of, and there was actually an interesting question that was posed yesterday, and it was, does your environment affect you being successful in life or not? And of course, we split the room in two. So again, kind of funneling that into one of your answers about the teacher that said that you wouldn't amount to anything, for someone to be let's not use the word successful now, but to actually achieve their purpose in life and calling, does their environment choke that up, or is that a self-driven thing that allowed you to now actually get to where you are, to have a realization?

What would you say? So I, I've got the perfect answer to that, right, the response to that, which is this. Sometimes when I wake up in the morning, I have a poem already in my head and I quickly write it down. When I'm on the train, I have a poem that comes to me on the train and I quickly write it down. And one that was in my head recently was called The Key. And I say this, we live in a superficial world.

Mm-hmm.

Let me start that one again.

Mm-hmm.

We live in a world full of superficial narratives that dictate our everyday, kidding ourselves that we have our freedom and that we actually have a say, anxiously avoiding to rock the boat whilst plugging all the leaks, projecting a sense of authority just in case we look too weak. However, each of us possesses a uniqueness Often referred to as the soul. You'll find a diamond deep inside instead of a piece of coal. It's the part of you that needs to shine and show yourself the way than constantly having to live in fear of what others may have to say. Maybe it's time to open your eyes and see what I can see. Ultimately, the choice is yours, my friend, as to who really holds the key.

Wow, wow.

So we hold the key. This is our garden. It's our garden, doesn't belong to anyone else. They're your rules, they're your boundaries. Don't allow the gate to be opened and someone just comes in and just abuses your garden. No, it doesn't work that way. You set the rules. The minute you start setting rules, people start understanding those rules and they start behaving in accordance with that. If I'm in your garden, I'm I'll look after, I'll respect your rules, but you make sure that your rules are respected. And that's the key. The key is all within, and have belief within yourself. Don't worry about the environment. Each one has their own garden. They've got to look after this.

Yeah, wow, that was, uh, yeah, that, that was really thought-provoking. Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, so So yeah, my— and these are, these are things that are coming to me over the last few years. In all my years, I'm really understanding it because if I was to go today, it's cool. I'm really good with it.

Mm-hmm.

Because I'm understanding the transitionary world that we're living in, that this is just this journey that I'm on, right? It could stop at any time. I often talk about a train, and it's in the book, it's called Dot, Dot, Dot, and Then You're Dead. It's the dot, dot, dots that you need to live, and this train journey that we're on, we get onto the carriage with 2 people, and we stop at many stations on this train journey, one-way ticket, and many people come into your carriage and come off. Some people stay on your carriage for quite a while.

Yeah.

Some people only stay on for one stop. But the secret to life, this is what I've learned, is everyone who comes in your carriage, like you two are in my carriage right now, listen, learn, speak, be aware, don't ignore. And there's a little window outside your carriage, in your carriage, and you can look outside, also admire the view as you're traveling. Do the two, because you don't know which station you're gonna have to come off at.

Because the carriage keeps going.

The carriage will keep going. So enjoy, don't argue, don't be negative, don't beat yourself up while you're in that carriage. It's your carriage, for God's sake. And so, as I've kind of grown older, I've realized that, and the best way, the best, once again, it's another poem, the best way I can explain how I feel is a poem by a guy called Dale Wimberly. He wrote it in 1934. He wrote it from a male perspective, but it's meant for the world, right?

Mm-hmm.

He says, and I think this sums everything up for me, he says, when you get what you want, in your struggle for wealth, for success, for money, and the world makes you a king for a day, then go to the mirror and look at yourself and see what the fella has to say.

Hmm.

For it's not your father, mother, or wife whose judgment upon you must pass. The person whose verdict counts most in your life is the guy staring back from the glass. For he's the one to please, never mind all the rest, for he is the one with you clear up to the end. And you know you've passed your most dangerous and difficult test when that guy in the glass is your friend. You may think you're Jack Horner, Chisel, or Plum, and think you're a wonderful guy, but the guy in the glass only thinks you're a bum if you can't stare him straight in the eye.

Mm-hmm.

You may have fooled the world through the passage of years with pats on your back as you pass, But your final reward will only be heartache and tears if you've cheated that man in the glass.

Wow!

And I've come to realize that, Jim, please don't cheat yourself.

Don't!

We all do it to please others. We'll tell tiny white lies, we'll pretend that we're on the right path when we're not. We'll pretend it's okay to do something when you know it's wrong. And so I've slowly but surely started investing in my truth.

And what—

my question, my next question is, what did it take to get you there? Because, for example, myself, it took me a very long time to realize that I was okay just being myself. I was okay understanding that I'm enough, and not saying that I'm enough and then that's it, but still happy to go through the process of becoming more me, basically. But then before that, I still had to go through self-doubt. I still had to go through depression. I still had to go through not being accepted or— and allowing that to affect me. I still had to go through wanting to commit suicide at one point, or maybe walking out into the road and the car hitting me. And then that day realizing that, oh, what about if it's not my time to go? Then I'm just going to be in pain in the hospital, and I don't want to go through that. Um, like, what did it take you to get to that point where you, you understood that you you're okay becoming, um, being you?

Okay, a really good question. Um, a few events happened. Obviously my mum passed away when I was very young. Um, a few things happened that really opened my eyes. The school teacher one is another one. Oh, there's another one which I don't really want to go into, but sure, it did, it did, um, impact me. Um, it was something that was said to me and People who I'm close to laughed at me because they said, look at you, you're ugly, you're worthless, you're nothing, kind of thing, right? And I looked and I thought, God, I'm so close to you and you're laughing, you're in hysterics because of how I look. Changed my whole— that one day changed a lot about me.

Hmm.

But I had to dig deep and say, Jim, who are you?

Hmm.

No, who really are you? I had to look in the mirror and say, who are you? Do you recognize yourself?

Hmm.

And you're just getting on this treadmill, you're trying to make sure that, like the first poem I told you about the key, you're just trying to make sure that the leaks are all plugged and, you know, everything's right and making sure the bills are paid and rushing around and the pillows are all nice and comfy and the lights are on. I thought, no, no, no, no. You are a good soul and you like to help people. Now you go out and do that. If that is your payment, your reward, that's what nourishes your soul, go out and do it.

Mm-hmm.

If you'd like to go to nice restaurants, you go out and do that. If you want to talk to friends, go and talk to friends and have a really good banter and tell jokes. If you want to write a book, go write a book. If you want to write a poem, go write a poem. Yeah, yeah, do what you need to do. Yeah, and I did, and I started becoming more authentic about myself. So my sense of purpose became not in a selfish way, not in a way where I'd be looking in the mirror thinking, oh wow, you're amazing. No, no, I knew that I needed— there was a soul that needed to speak, and that soul was telling me, listen, whilst I'm in your body, buddy, Yeah, let's go and do some damage, let's go and deliver. Yeah, because by the way, you've got everything about you that can— you know what you got? You can walk, you can talk, you can see, you can hear, you can touch, you can love. You've got everything. What don't you have? You've got all the basics that once one of them is taken away, then you'll understand when you don't have it. I thought Yeah, I have. I've got a brain that works. I may not be the most intelligent person in the world, that's okay, but I have belief in who I am. And that belief system just kept growing, and the more I believed in myself, the more I nourished it, the more confidence I started getting. I used to go red by you just saying hello to me when I was about 14, 15. If you just came and said hello, I'd go bright red, and I just— what do I do now? I said, no, I'm switching that like a flick of a switch. I said, that's not my narrative. My new narrative is this, and I'm going to start believing in my new narrative. That's going to believe and record in my subconscious mind that this is who you are, this is why you came into this world.

Yeah.

And I never let anyone— and even if you— if anyone tried to put me down, anyone says anything to me today It's like water off a duck's back.

It's interesting on that. You've highlighted some engaging points that I think a lot of the listeners will have to pinpoint as well. And, you know, an interesting thing is I came into your office at some point last year. Amazing office, by the way, guys.

I'm yet to— Yeah, you're more than welcome to come through.

I wanted to sleep in there.

It was that good.

I was thinking, no wonder they come up with genius moments in a space like this. Look at it. So I came in there and then we had a good chat and whatnot. Again, we was planning some things. Um, and then your book— he, uh, Jim gave me his book and the first page, I kid you not, I opened up— he said, just open the page, any page. And it said, congratulations, you have won the lottery.

Yeah.

And I've just pinned that on the book and I said, What a coincidence. The reason now, because you're touching on the soul.

Yeah.

And again, the soul is something you might want to highlight it to the listeners, is where the gold is, where the riches are. And it's about birthing it out again, you know, through conversations and then, you know, being with the right people. So again, do you want to touch on that particular page, you know, and just correlating it with the soul?

So, so I had, um, I unfortunately had a major operation well, on the heart a few months ago, and while I was waiting to go into the surgery, I wrote a poem again. And see, this is the other thing, when you've got time and you're frustrated and you're negative, whether you're waiting in traffic, whether you're waiting for the train to go by, whatever you're— whether you're waiting in the queue, don't get frustrated. Time is limited, right? Try and turn that into something, recycle into something positive.

Mm-hmm.

Spend that time doing something, not just you know, something that just kills your mind. Create something for your mind, create something of value, create something that nourishes your mind. Spend that time. It's all about how you perceive and you want to be perceived. It's all about what you invest into yourself. And so, and I thought, well, I've got 5 minutes before I'm going in, so I'm going to write something because just in case I don't come out.

Yeah.

I said, As I sit here quietly and wonder— this goes to your point, George— as I sit here quietly and wonder, what was it really all about? Have I truly lived my life to the full?

Hmm.

Or one that's clouded in doubt?

Hmm.

As I play my recording backwards, rewatching the highs and the lows, did I truly cherish the moments I had? Or did I simply take life's blows? As I questioned the choices I made on my journey and the people I met on the way, did they truly nourish my inner soul, or did they steal my light away?

Hmm.

What we come to understand in this life, at times a bit too late, is that this is the only one that we're given. Whatever may lay beyond this world, we don't know with any certainty or vision. But what we do hold is this very moment, and there's a choice we need to make. Do we allow our life to go by in the blink of an eye, or do we allow our souls to awake? So that's the answer to your question. I allowed my soul to awake, and I am— that's why I'm speaking, that's why I'm here today, because this is not me speaking, this is my soul speaking. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. That's amazing though. Yeah. And it's— it just— it made me realize as well that, like you said, just this is your soul speaking. And a lot of people watching, um, will never know how to activate that as well, which is such a big part. And I think sometimes it actually comes with some— actually comes with a moment that kind of triggers that. It's almost like when The heart stops and you—what's the what's that thing that you that doctors would use to resuscitate? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, anyway, it hurts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does hurt because it's it will hurt as well because it's going to be a change that you're not used to. You've never ever experienced, and the reason why you've never experienced because it's actually unique to you. So when you were talking, it took me back to when you said. Growing up in Southall, I well I grew up in East Acton, which is not far. But I went to college in Oxbridge. But there's times where I didn't have any money to get back from college, and I had to walk from Oxbridge to East Acton, and I had to go through Southall. So I know where you're coming from. Yeah, wow! I know where you're coming from. That's a long walk. Yeah, it's a long walk. It's about an hour twenty minutes, hour thirty minutes.

In those days, you didn't have your fitness. No, no, no, no, no.

I was with my backpack, and I would listen to Baby. And this time, like, some of you guys that are too young, like, I had a Walkman. So if the battery dies, then you're not— you're having to sing to yourself now walking home. But, um, I, I know where you're coming from. I obviously know where you're coming from.

Yeah.

For me growing up, I grew up in Nigeria, came here when I was 12. Where I lived in Nigeria was like, there's a place called Maryland, and it was a valley where my grandma— we stayed with my grandma because my dad was unemployed, my mom was unemployed. We all lived in like one room. And then when we came to the UK, me, my 4 sisters, my mom lived in one room for 4 years. But then the fact that— and I was just kind of reminiscing, like the fact that all 3 of us are sitting here now and we're sharing this, it's amazing. It just shows— it's a testament to show that, listen, once you can actually recalibrate your mind and your being, you can achieve anything.

Totally, totally, Dave. I think That, that inflection point that you talk about, what made you— why are you here today? Why is George here today? There's, there's always an inflection point in everyone, and, and you may have already gone by those inflection points, may have even gone by, and you haven't even noticed it or realized it. But I truly believe, right, that you got a choice. You either lose control or you take control. You either believe in yourself or you don't. It's a choice, it's just a choice. You can either blame the world or take accountability and responsibility for who you are and where you are, right? Once you start taking accountability, once you understand that you're in this world on your own, you've come on your own, you're going to go on your own, once you understand that the only person who's got your back is yourself, And you've got to put some hard graft in. Life ain't going to be easy. You can go a different way if you want, but that life ain't going to be easy either. It might be for a short while, but towards the end they ain't gonna be. Hard work, focus, discipline. Everyone's got that capacity and capability to do it. It's a mindset issue. Yeah. And you've got to make sure that your subconscious mind understands it. So what I I do talks at schools and what I talk to them about is what's known as a satellite navigation system. Is if today, once you've listened to this podcast, you say, right, where do I want to be in 12 months' time from today financially, health-wise, relationship-wise, and just your state of happiness, right? Where do you want to be?

Hmm.

With the people around you, with your friends, Just how you feel when you wake up in the morning. Just do me this one favor, write down those 3 or 4 things on a piece of paper today, just very simple one-liners.

Hmm.

Just write them down and write down the date 12 months from today, right? So what you've done just by doing that, just that one simple act, is you have gone and put into your postcode, your satellite navigation system, The postcode that you want to get to within a certain time. Now, when you look at that in the satellite navigation system, it'll tell you the direction you're going in. It'll tell you what time you're going to get there. What you've done is in your subconscious mind, you've dropped those goals in your subconscious mind. Don't forget, you're the driver. The conscious mind is the driver, and it just follows that. satellite navigation system. It doesn't even think, it just follows it. And I can tell you, and I can absolutely promise you, that everyone I've spoken to, everyone I've given this satellite navigation system to, in those 12 months they have reached their goals. And what they've done is they've written a letter to themselves and they said, hey, um, Dave, I'll be meeting you in 12 months' time. in this place at this time, and I can't wait to meet you because I know that when I meet you, you're going to be doing this, this, and this. And you're writing a letter to your future self, and you can't open that letter until that day. And then Dave today is going to be meeting Dave in 12 months' time with all those things that he had put on his wish list. So That's for me, that's what I've done without realizing it. When I said I wanted to go around the world and help people, that's what happened. When I said I wanted to eat in great restaurants and lunches, that's what's happened. And now I'm creating a new narrative for myself when I've hit this 60 mark, and to totally be free from all those 25 languages.

Yeah, one thing, one thing you mentioned about subconscious mind, um, and I'm paraphrasing on this, our mentor PT, um, he mentioned once that, um, your subconscious mind is actually your conscious mind without realizing. Because what you call yourself, your conscious mind right now, is, it's based off what your eyes is exposed to right now, whether it's social media, whether it's, um, the celebrity world, whether it's success, what success looks like. But your subconscious mind is really your true conscious mind because just like you say, your soul is your true self. So your subconscious is actually your true conscious mind. So if you're able to bring that forward, it's it's it's amazing.

Yeah, yeah. If you can if you can bring your subconscious in your conscious, oh my God! Then you're yeah, you're in heaven.

Yeah. So and that's and the reason why I'm saying that because the reason why I was able to make that transition even to who I am today. today and who I'm gonna— I'm becoming. And same with George as well. It's because the same way that your teacher said that you were going to be stacking the oranges and this and that, I was always in the space where people used to laugh at me. People used to look at me as, oh, it's not going to be anything. But then this man said to me, you're going to be— you, you can just be yourself and you're going to be the greatest sports leader in the world.

Wow.

Yeah. Like, why do you have to say that to me? George is here as well. George is a sports— in sports as well, but he's also taken that for himself. as well. So that— so sometimes those words, it's either— so you can get the most positive word that is going to change your trajectory into success, but the per— it's up to the individual to take that in and run with it.

100%.

It's the same way you can get a negative thing, is for you to take that and to run with it.

100%. I, I— the way I put it is, you know, if someone chucks an orange at me, I'll take the juice out of the orange, but I'll leave the peel behind. I want to take the message that— why did he chuck it at me? What's the message? I, I'm not carrying someone else's problems, anger. Well, if I'm on the road and I've got road rage, I just—

Yeah, I never understood road rage.

I'm not carrying your stuff. I'm not, you know, that's just a really bad investment in myself. I just, I feel that, and I promise you this will be the last poem I tell you. It's called What Is Success? Because you mentioned success, right? And For me, success is if you can go to sleep each night with your soul at peace. That's what I think real success is. And then what is peace? Peace is when you can embrace each day's happiness and pain as one.

Okay.

What is one? One is when you can stay centered with your emotions rather than flipping between extremes. What is extreme? Extreme is when you forget humility in victory or fall to your knees in defeat. What is defeat? Defeat is when you don't have the courage to accept your loss. What is loss? Loss is personal to each of us, but you learn, grow, and evolve from the experience. What is experience? Experience is a recording stored deep into our subconscious mind that dictates our future. What is our future? It should be to go to sleep each night with your soul at peace. And for me, that's where I'm trying to get to, you know. I strive— I, I do have a great sleep, I'll be honest, um, but that really is success. It's not about having a big house, a fancy car, you know.

Mm-hmm.

It's about your soul being Yeah, at peace with who you are.

Yeah. And I think again, it would be good to highlight some of the pinnacle moments you've had in your career as well, you know, because that— people look at those material moments, but they don't know the behind the scenes. Again, these are words, and like you said and referenced, words are invisible. We can't see what we're even talking about now, but you can feel them. Yeah, like you said, people said negative things, but How can we? How do we register that now? Even for myself, like I came here when I was three from Zambia. Wow. I'm mixed. I'm half Zambian, half Malawian. My family.

I never really get to wish them. You never talk about the Malawian side. Yeah, yeah.

So I mean with that, I came here when I was three and I was born premature three months early. Wow. So I almost died. Wow. My mom would tell me that they could hold me in their hand like this and I'm the firstborn. So So for me, and then my mum had me when she was 20, um, again married to my dad anyway, and they still are, but she was a young mum, quote unquote, back then. Of course, culture and whatnot. But she would tell me times where she would sit in the hospital and cry, like, why? She'll see all the other mothers getting discharged with their babies same day or a day later, but she would see me in the incubator again. So for me, I think I've always had that subconscious— again, this is just to register with anyone out there To correlate with the points is like I've always had to fight for my life from before I even had a chance of life. So I think that thing has always been in me from then because again, I'm fully developed. I'd like to say handsome fella.

You are. You are.

Oh no, we all are. But in the sense of like other people would see, okay, you was born early. There should have been health implications. Fully healthy, you know. So like fast forwarding into like endeavors that I've had to and facing obstacles like similar to Coach David, the number of rejections and laughter I've had is on— you can't even—

it still happens now. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I can't—

I'd run out of ink and paper. But I know there's a uniqueness in each and every one of us, even those that are listening, that, you know, I can do something someone else can't.

Yeah.

And that's the soul. And if you listen to what the negatives or the naysayers are saying, then you've sold your soul, I think. And when people say you've sold your soul, no, it's actually like you said, knowing when to check out or knowing when to stay in. Um, I've always felt like a billion pounds isn't enough to quote it, but that day when I opened that page It was so— I don't think you understand. It was like it said, congratulations, you have won the lottery. Yeah. And everywhere I've gone in my life, it's always been, you're gonna make a lot of money, you're gonna do this, ever since when— from when I'm young. And I've not known how to birth that, but I've just gone along. And there's a part, like you say, in us that activates that, um, that there isn't a manual. And again, a school teacher can't tell you that.

Even when PT did say that to you last year, he did say, yeah, George, you're gonna make a lot of money. Yeah, exactly.

And since then, yeah. It's like, yeah, we're on a trajectory. And again, the reason is because we know that, touching back on, you know, highlighting on your pinnacle moments now with what you're doing in the esports space. Yeah. And whatnot. Even though that's not everything, what would you say was the highlights that made that? What was the engine point? Um, because the listeners will be keen to see what you really do as well.

To be honest with you, off the back of that as well, it's like, it'll be good to even understand what even got you into that space? Because coming from being a lawyer, being an author, yeah, and then now, yeah, in that space as well, it's quite interesting.

Yeah, it has been a really interesting journey because actually the book I wrote during my lowest moment in life, and I was writing a letter to my kids. Wow. I was in Cyprus and I started at 9 o'clock in the morning or 8 o'clock in the morning. I finished at 5:30, just a letter, and I'd written 18,000 words, something stupid. And I sent it to a friend of mine and she goes, wow, man, you need to turn this into a book. And then a year later I turned it into a book, but it was my lowest moment in my life and I just wrote from the heart. It's like the guy was sending me messages and I was just writing, scribing on the thing. Yeah, that's it. So yeah, I've had an interesting trajectory, but the belief system has kind of accidentally got me Everywhere I've got to. So from growing up in Southall, not having the best education, almost being thrown out of colleges and everything else, to becoming a senior partner in a in a very prestigious Westminster firm, acting for some really prestigious clients, having some of the largest class actions in the UK, and then from there, you know, working for very wealthy. family offices and doing all their projects. And, you know, it's, it's a surreal experience. What's got me there, I guess, is just being knocked down so often by people who don't even see you.

Okay.

Who kind of just walk over you and take you for advantage because you're a good-natured person or you want to help. to having this inner fight to say I'm better than that. And I just think it's— I reprogrammed my brain at the age of around 16, 17. I reprogrammed who Jim was.

Okay.

And I said, you're the only one who can do this, buddy. No one else is going to do it. You can listen to everyone you want, but ultimately it's down to you, what you want and where you want to be and why you want to be there. And so I just reprogrammed it, and then everything just happened as it did. I didn't, I didn't go out. There were some amazing moments I've had in my life.

Yeah.

You know, I'm blessed. I have a beautiful family of 4 amazing kids and amazing brothers and wider family and nephews and nieces. And, you know, I've met some amazing things. But I'll tell you one thing though, is that when you do When you do allow your soul to speak, you will connect with others whose souls are speaking, and that's, I think, why the 3 of us are sitting here today.

100%.

I genuinely believe it, that's why we're sitting here, because our souls are speaking, and this is not a normal podcast where you talk about the souls, and we've been talking about it in such great detail today, right? We'd be talking about other things. I don't want to talk about superficial stuff, I want to talk about what drives me. I mean, Vitality and being in Vitality, being the chairman of it. And we just won Krakow on the weekend in a major tournament, CS2. And I'm sitting there thinking, Jesus Christ, I'm the chairman of this board, and it's just one of the most powerful esports teams in the world.

Yeah.

10 years ago, I was sitting in my law firm, 11 years or whatever it was, thinking, wow, I'm one of the senior partners, 240 staff. How did I get here?

Yeah.

Uh, 2, 3 years ago, I'm sitting on top of Mount Everest, and all these people have just been given eyesight that never had a chance in their world, thinking, how did I get here?

Yeah.

It wasn't, it wasn't like a conscious effort I made. It just happened that way because I had decided at the age of 16, 17 that I am the man in charge of my own destiny.

Of course.

This is where I'm going with it. And I— that belief system that I reprogrammed my mind with has never left me. Wow, wow, wow, wow.

So what's, what's next for Jim? What's next, what's next in your, in your journey?

Wow, good question. Yeah, the next thing in my journey is, uh, I want to change, uh, the world's trajectory, um, in where mental health, where young people are going the way old people are treated, where young families are suffering. I just, I feel I can change the trajectory in a small way, but let that grow and almost like, like just running through everyone's bloodstream and the 8 billion people. I want a message, and I come from a culture called Sikhism, a religion. Mm-hmm. Culture, whatever you want to call it. It's about equality. It's about— we call it manjit jagjit, winning yourself before you try and win the world. We say manni mammatuchi, which is have humility, keep your humility strong and keep your intelligence high. Just simple things I want to start instilling, nothing complicated. I don't need to write a complicated book. I don't need to get the academics to try and— I want to hit every corner of this world from anyone, simple people, complicated people, judges, whoever, people, whoever they are. I want my message to go where everyone understands this one language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see.

Yeah.

And that's my next journey, which is— and I think I can. I have, I have a belief system I can start. changing things without using religion, without using politics, but just using my soul.

Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Um, I know I keep mentioning, um, our mentor PT. One thing that he does, he, he says, free people, free people. That, that sentence is so powerful that, like you said, simple. Free people, free people. And with our community as well, our larger community, we're all about helping people, winning people's souls, allowing those souls to be— to not die out. Like, when you look at young people, especially if you look at areas such as maybe Peckham, Hackney, those sort of areas, a lot of them aren't exposed to what we're exposed to now. How do we now give them that exposure for them to change their lives, or But also help them change their lives, whether it is, like you said, allowing the deaf to hear, allowing the eyes to— the blind to see. And sometimes it's not physical blindness or physical hearing impairment. It could also be just being lost in a system, lost in a world, in a bubble that is not them or where they're meant to be.

So that's great that you've just mentioned that, because I talk about this all the time, which is the superficial side of our lives, which is how we look, the surgery that people do, and teenagers and how they're trying to compete in terms of, you know, how they want to be seen. That's not beauty. Beauty is when the eyes can see through to the soul. Our idea of beauty would be very different. That's real beauty.

Yeah.

That's something that you can Light up the world with. Yeah. And and there was a there was a story and it's escaped me now, but I was going to tell you. But it's it's it's it's it's where it's where I want to be in in my world. My my a very good friend of mine yesterday asked me. He goes, Jim, what do you want?

I said.

I want peace. He goes, no, he goes, no, not that you want peace. He goes, you are peace. I said, yeah, you're right. And we are all peace.

Yeah.

And we just need to nurture it, be aware of it, value it, and bring it to the forefront of your world because your world can only get better.

Yeah.

When you harbor negativity, anger, revenge, jealousy, ego, yeah, all these things are there to destroy. And I feel that the way the world is set up right now, it just, it just, um, brings that into the equation each day. Yeah. And it fuels all of those things. Why don't you fuel it with something beautiful for yourself. Yeah, you know, it's a good investment. So, so that's, that's my next part of my journey.

Amazing, amazing. Um, not to— not last question, but more of like a reverse question. Do you have a question? Normally I say, do you have a question for me? But do you have a question for us?

Okay.

And it could be 2 different questions as well if you want, one for myself, one for George.

Um, No, I think the question is for both of you. Um, tell me about your soul.

Hmm, I think my soul, which is also my spirit, is very much to do with helping people. And the reason why I say that is because I came from a place where no one helped me until I met the person and the family that allowed me to— that helped trigger my soul or my spirit to manifest into what I'm doing now, basically, and what I'm going to be doing. Because that started off— I'll say— I'm not going to say when I started like my gospel community. I would say when— I'll say 2014, when I was engaged with with the family and my mental PT. As much as it took me a while to really, really birth what my spirit and my soul was meant to manifest, I had to go through a process of dying within.

Okay.

With the, with the person I was before. That had to die for that to come to life, basically. Um, and that's exactly what happened to me. Yeah. And my manifestation may be sports, Mm-hmm. But it's still beyond that, hence Beyond the Athlete. Um, it's still beyond that because I may use sports as a tool, which it is, and I may use this podcast as a tool, but my manifestation is what the words that people that are watching are hearing based off what I've heard from my mentor, um, that could and will change lives. So the main thing is always helping people and help change lives in any way that I can, whether it's me speaking on a podcast, whether it's me running basketball sessions, whether it's me getting young people who are photographers, videographers to go to NBA games and shoot NBA games, whether it's me bringing a young guy here to allow him to do his podcast that he's been wanting to do for years, but having him sit here and me being in front of the computer, helping him do all the technical stuff, and he's been able to run his own podcast. That's my manifestation. So it's never one thing, but it's so many things. So I just take the shape of what I need to take per time to help people. So yeah.

Nice. George?

Yeah, I'd say my soul, first of all, is very deep. Um, I follow like a light, like a navigation Um, I don't know what it is. I have no plans, but it's navigated me to be in a space where I can allow people to actually activate their purpose in life. Um, I've always been born to lead. I know that. Um, so my soul feels rest in saving other people. Hmm. And that when you're saving other people, you're going to go through a lot of ups and downs, misunderstandings, turmoils.

No good deed goes unpunished. Yeah, exactly.

And very great moments as well. But because they're troubled souls or troubled people, it takes a certain skill to, let me say, Put that, that turmoil at mute, like to actually capture it and say, "Wait, hold on," and then show a direction. But I can only give a direction because I got direction. So my soul has a direction. I know where I'm navigating people to. Again, it's I'm the hub, but there's a family that I'm part of. Like Coach David mentions, our mentor PT. it's not just a religious thing. This is life, like his purpose. So you're talking the language that we understand. This might be foreign to some people thinking, wow, how did we get here? It's very deep. But you're an ultra successful individual in your own right. And I think for people to actually understand those— you're not run by money or clothing. So my soul, again, when we met um, navigated it.

Yeah, 100%.

And the reason is because there's people there.

100%.

So what I've— and to kind of tie in on to answer your question— is I find myself in unique scenarios too repetitively.

Very unique. Yeah, yeah.

Where it's beyond my own doing, where I even laugh at myself from third person when I'm laughing because I'm there. People ask me, George, how do you get How'd you do that? I'm like, I don't know, but I've built myself to a point where— this is where I think I understand it a little bit more— where the leaders that can see beyond the physical say, you're gonna make a lot of money, because it's a byproduct when you help people that we've mentioned. Sometimes the reward is a financial—

Yeah.

Or benefit. But again, I've begun to realize seeing one life change at a time It's changed many lives, and that's what I live for. So my soul is very deep. I know everyone is, everyone's is, but— and that's protected me even through my own mistakes as well.

Yeah, it does.

Because, yeah, because we're— no one's taught us this path. No. But we've now had capes where we're almost superheroes, modern-day superheroes. And someone can try and do negative, it wouldn't last because God knows we're needed. And we have seen heroes go, like, you know, the Martin Luther Kings and things like that. But I think, like you mentioned, the timings— there's a window where we're almost like there's a protection on you to go and achieve the people that need saving.

Mm-hmm.

And the expression that you mentioned might be sports. But I find myself in more than just small scenarios.

Yeah.

Um, and it's almost like, okay, what's going on here? And I get misunderstood. That's one thing, yeah, I'd say about me. So my soul, I've begun to realize, is— it's the way my life is. And there's a specific wiring and people around me I need to help be the midwives for that, for the benefit of the greater. Like you, I don't mind if I go today as long as I fulfill my God-given—

You haven't let yourself down.

Yeah, yeah, exactly that. Even through my imperfections.

And listen, we all have imperfections. Yeah, you know, none of us— don't worry about that. No one's perfect. I always say I go by a 70% rule, which is I have already decided that 70% of my day is going to be a good day. Yeah, even if I know it's going to be a bad day, I've already told myself, no, leave that to the 30%. But there is no way I'm allowing my day to be 70% neutral or bad and 30% good, because I'm not wasting this day. I want to catch it.

Yeah, yeah.

Even when I have bad information or bad news and I've gone through a tough time, I still take juice out of the day. I never let it go by because this day ain't gonna come back again.

Yeah, exactly that. Amazing, amazing. Well, Jim, this is not the end, but this is where we say thank you for joining us on the podcast. It's been an amazing conversation, part 1. We would definitely do this again, definitely do this again. But, um, we appreciate obviously you taking out your time. I know your schedule is quite jam-packed, and I know we were meant to do this last year, but I'm glad that we were patient and we waited to do this here as well. Um, also thank you to Red Bull again for allowing us to use their amazing space. Um, but yeah, thank you all for watching. Um, I hope you guys have taken a lot from this conversation. I hope you guys are— you have your notepads out, your pens out, your notes on your phone, taking notes, taking a few older nuggets that we've been able to share and listen to on the podcast. Um, like I always say on every episode, do subscribe, comment as well. Let us know what you think. Um, let us know how you feel about this episode. Let us know what we can do better or improve on, on this podcast, and even ask questions that we can even answer to you guys as well. Um, but yeah, you know our socials, Beyond the Athlete Pod on Instagram. Um, obviously myself, David Bryant, on LinkedIn. Um, Jim Rai on LinkedIn as well. Um, what— yours, yours is complicated, so you can, you can share that. You can share, you can share it yourself.

Yeah, Instagram @29gjum. Um, yeah, LinkedIn George Jr. Yeah. Um, and then I do have the sports side, but yeah.

Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, thank you everyone for watching, and thank you to my co-host George and my guests, our guest Jim. Uh, thanks for watching and see you on the next episode.

Take care.

Thank you.