Building the largest travel meta search engine in the Middle East, Wego, with founder Ross Veitch.

Welcome to the Unnoticed Entrepreneur. This show will tell you how to get the recognition you and your business deserve. Our guests share their practical insights and tools which you can use straight away. Your host is international entrepreneur podcast host and author Jim James. Welcome to this episode of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, Jim James. I'm here with Ross Veach. Ross, fantastic to be here with you here in Singapore, the amazing Ouigo offices. Tell us just a little bit about Ouigo.

Sure. Great to have you back in Singapore, Jim. So wego is an online travel company. Yeah, we are so dual headquartered Singapore, Dubai. We do a lot of our product tech, data science work out of Singapore. We run the commercial marketing side of business out of Dubai. We run a metasearch and a online travel agency model side by side. We also have a sort of a media advertising business. We're about 220 people worldwide, offices apart from Singapore and Dubai, from west to east, Cairo, Lahore, Bangalore, KL and Singapore Dubai.

So for those of you that don't understand what a meta search engine is, Ross, just give us a quick guide what it is. What does the company do? What do people get by working with Wego?

Yeah, so we're a sort of B2C online travel company, metasearch side of the business. So people come to us and they are comparing, they're shopping the market for flights and for hotels. We show them the price if they book direct with their lines at hotels. We also show them all the different online travel agency prices. The global guys, you know, the booking.coms and expedias in the world through to the local champions, those they've heard of, those they haven't heard of. And if they come to wego, you know, they know they've exhaustively shopped, all shopped to market. We, you know, when we first launched back in 2005. Long time ago, Long time ago.

Yeah, you got to survive.

Yeah, yeah, it was a web game. Mobile apps didn't exist at the time. You know, we jumped on the mobile app opportunity pretty aggressively, relatively early. And most of the business is now mobile apps. When we first started the business geographically, we saw Kayak and Sidestep with the same business model get started in the US we saw Tuna and the guys up in China and we sort of, yeah, that's a good idea. Somebody should bring that to the rest of the world. And you know, by rest of the world, we originally were thinking about Southeast Asia because, you know, Craig, and I'm a co founder, we're both based in Singapore. You know, I'd been Working over at Yahoo, getting Southeast Asia up and running. He was with Intercontinental Hotel Group on the E commerce side. And we thought, you know, this metasearch model, it's great customer experience, you know, it's better mousetrap. The suppliers love it, throwing more money at it. So this is sort of went to the top of my list of life. After yahoo projects and 2005, we kicked it off. The original geographic ambition was to, you know, bring it to Southeast Asia. We were a little bit early. You know, timing is everything and rather than sit around and wait for the market to develop, you know, we looked further afield and realized there was a big untapped opportunity in the Middle East. And originally we sort of discovered that just by throwing a whole bunch of stuff against the wall and sort of seeing what stuck, you know, we started seeing sort of an exponential growth in traffic. A lot of it was originally organic. So then we started paying attention. So we properly localized the product, we properly localized the marketing, we built local team and, you know, fast forward today, decade later, we are the biggest online travel app across the Middle East. As a brand, we're as well known as booking.com, good friends of ours, but competitors too. Travel industry is kind of interesting in that everybody partners and competes with everybody else up and down the value chain. We're doing over a billion dollars a year in GMV going through the platform and happy to say that we survived. Covid was a little bit touch and go there for a while, but, you know, yeah, you know, in March 2020, everything came to a screaming halt, you know, so over the space of two weeks, we went, you know, our revenue run rate dropped to about, you know, 0.2% of what it had been, you know, the previous month.

Yeah, well, very few people could have survived in the way that you and Craig have done and, you know, these amazing offices down in Harbourfront. So you built this, you know, amazing engine. And having used wego myself, you know, you can find both the bookings and comparisons for flights and accommodation and a plethora of other things, you know, with the Unnoticed entrepreneur show. Love to just find out about how you've got wego noticed as a brand because obviously you got the technology dimension. You've got a lot of different aspects of this business. I'd love to focus on how do you build the brand? Have you got people? Because you've got to get consumers to come, but also presumably got to get partners to come and so on. So which one was the biggest problem and how did you solve It, Yeah.

So back when we first started, we had a classic cold start marketplace problem. Right. So at its heart, MetaSearch is a two sided marketplace. On one side you've got consumers looking to buy travel or search for travel, and on the other side you've got merchants looking to sell travel. And in the absence of a large number of consumers, the merchants aren't interested in working with you. Right. Because there's a cost to, you know, engaging and signing up and connecting. And we kind of got around that problem by white labeling our platform with Yahoo, with MSN and a whole bunch of other big sort of horizontal portals that were significant drivers of traffic at the time. And a little bit of it was, you know, selling, you know, convincing them to sign up for something and then scrambling to build it, you know. Okay, yeah, so we had to do a little bit of tap dancing the old days, but you know, but you.

Had a great reputation with your Yahoo days anyway. Right. So you already had as an individual an amazing track record in building out things that would work. So.

Yeah, so we leveraged some of the relationships we have.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

And yeah, once you get over that sort of chicken and egg problem, it becomes a bit of a flywheel. We think of ourselves as a primarily technology company that just happens to be operating in the travel industry. And as such we spent a lot of time using all the standard sort of digital marketing channels. So you know, we did a lot of, of organic search optimization, we did a lot of paid search, we did a lot of display marketing across all the different publishers. Do a lot of pr, right. Do a lot of content marketing, a lot of influencer marketing. And the marketing mix has evolved. Originally it was like pure digital and a lot of it, you know, just sort of performance driven. As we got bigger, we were, you know, we spent a lot of time actually building the brand. And it's just different to a lot of online travel companies. A lot of really don't care. They're happy to take the arbitrage. But yeah, we sort of were thinking longer term. So if you look at where we spend our money, it's roughly half on brand, half on sort of performance or tactical stuff. And on the brand side of the ledger, you know, we do tv, good old fashioned tv.

Oh, you do? Okay.

We try and do it in a sort of fairly scientific measured, you know, we sort of measure the direct response, we measure the uplift, we try and do split testing wherever we can, but we do, you know, we find that works and we've got a great Strategic partner in the NBC group out of the Gulf, who, you know, operate the biggest satellite TV network in the region. So we do a lot with them. We do a lot of YouTube, a lot of other digital video. We have a lot of marketing partners. So in the travel industry, there's a sort of an old fashioned partnership model where the travel agent works with the national tourism organization. So travel agent doesn't really care what they sell as long as they sell something. The tourism board obviously cares about their destination. Right. So typically it's sort of, you know, you both put some money into a pot and you promote the destination. So we do this with several dozen different tourism boards, you know, over the year. And this is significantly augments our own marketing budget. Okay. So we do a lot of, we've got some good partnerships with some of the people who make mobile phones. So, you know, we work with Xiaomi and Samsung and Huawei, so we find ways to preload our app onto their phone so that when you buy your shiny new phone and you first boot it up, you know, we're already there.

So how does that deal work? What's in it for them?

So they like to associate themselves with big brands in each market.

Right.

And in the markets where we do these deals, we're sort of a big brand. And yeah, there's obviously a commercial element to it as well.

Yes, I see.

And that takes several different flavors.

Well, that's really smart. You get to be pre installed. I guess that was the whole thing about with Netscape and Microsoft Windows Explorer, wasn't it? That the Windows were preloaded, Netscape couldn't get on. So smart that you're playing that card. Can we also just look at the kind of content that you created? Because you mentioned quite a few different things. One about sort of destinations, but also about the Wego brand. And I know that you've talked about influencers. Do you want to just break down for us, you know, what role those different kinds of content play, if you can, or how do you get them to somehow be unified around the wego brand? Because you've got so many channels and so many content types potentially could run away and not all reinforce the brand. So how do you do that?

Yeah, so importantly, it's all directed by our vp, Brand marketing out of Dubai and you know, she looks after what you would traditionally think of as brand marketing, but also all of the sort of newer manifestations of that. So you know, the social media, the influencers and you know, the sort of a, like a brand, a set of Brand guidelines. There's sort of creative templates we try and stick to and there's messaging we try and stick to. And then on the, you know, with respect to content marketing specifically, this is something we've always done a little bit of it, but during COVID we really cranked it up to 11. So we sort of made a decision, you know, when Covid hit, to keep going with all of the unpaid channels. Like we obviously zeroed out all the paid marketing.

Yes.

But you know, we kept going with the content marketing, with the social media, with the pr. To keep the brand in people's mind, but also to be helpful. Right. So if you did any travel during COVID would know what a sort of logistical nightmare it was. So pre Covid, we used to do a lot of content marketing around inspiration. So trying to inspire you to go places, give you new ideas, we kind of flipped the script a little bit and just tried to be practical, you know, so if you need to get from Hong Kong to Singapore or from Dubai to London, you know, sort of tell you what the COVID travel requirements were on the at the time. Because there were shifting target, right?

Yes, exactly. Yeah. That's why I was interested in how you've managed the content, because content generation is, if you like the strategy, but I'm interested also in the content type. What's the messaging that you've been using for the audiences.

Yeah, So a lot of that was just trying to be helpful, but you know, in by doing so, we keep the brand sort of top of mind. What we found is as Covid sort of disappeared into the rear view mirror and the travel restrictions were lifted and people were able to travel again, we found our business basically came back. You know, we're above our pre Covid levels now without us having to crank up the paid marketing just came back. Yeah.

So you kind of by embedding yourself and I guess becoming a more trusted advisor beyond just a sort of portal to buy as a brand to consumers. Yeah.

So a lot of travel brands went dark during COVID They just disappeared. But a lot of travel companies also sacked half their team, which is kind of one of the reasons they went dark.

Yeah, that's right.

We trimmed around the edges, but we made a, you know, with the support of my board, we sort of decided that we would keep the team intact. You know, we spent years building it, building up the team, hiring them, training and meshing them together. And so, you know, during COVID we kind of doubled down on product development, built a lot of stuff that you Know, recently released, you know, and we kept the foot down on all the unpaid marketing channels and that's sort of paid off for us big time now. So we're seeing market share gains. Yeah.

Okay, that's wonderful. So, as crisis often requires a greater cadence of communication, not a lower one, which of those channels have you found most effective? When you talk about content marketing, is it that sort of TikToks or the YouTubes or the Instagrams or the Facebooks? Can you give us any indication of which ones have generated the most for you or.

So if you're talking about pure content marketing. Right. So stuff that we're writing and pushing out, our own blog has actually worked the hardest for us.

Very interesting.

And yeah, we obviously syndicate that and make sure it's picked up by Google News and some other republishers. But we spend a lot of time responding to sort of a rapid response team. So anything that's trending and travel, we make sure we hit it pretty quickly and exhaustively. Yeah, so that's worked well.

What sort of content are you putting on the blog and where is the blog? Is it on the homepage for someone that's looking, or is there a separate place for the blog?

Yes, sort of exists in the website, exists within the app, and that served us well. More broadly, it's the mobile app install base, which is sort of the most powerful channel for us.

Right.

You know, if you think back to the web before apps, basically, Google was kind of acting as a toll keeper one way or another for pretty much all businesses unless they're really strongly branded. It's changed a little bit with mobile apps. Right. So once you have your app installed, you're able to push message to a user to remind them you exist, to incentivize them with a coupon or with a new idea or with some information that might be useful to them. That's quite powerful.

Yeah.

Also, I think once somebody has gone to the trouble of installing your app, you know, there's already a sort of a strong relationship between the brand and the consumer. So yeah, we've spent a lot of time building up that app install base over the years and that's sort of one of the major assets we have.

Okay. And you mentioned before about, you know, the cold start and that you've got the vendor part of the industry, you know, travel authorities like Singapore Tourism Board, for example, airlines. What do you do in terms of partnering with them? I mean, you mentioned they might give you funds, but do you just want to give us a Little bit of what might be a sort of a package or how might you engage them?

Yeah, I mean, it's a kind of two steps. So for the people that are selling travel, so the airlines, the hotel chains and the online travel agencies, sort of the expedias ago, it is booking dot com. So we are driving business to them. And, yeah, we take a clip of the ticket.

Right.

For the tourism boards, we're typically putting cash or cash and services into a pool and then we go out and market the destination together. And, yeah, we drive people into wego to convert.

And that would be what? Maybe if you like an influencer going to a destination, enjoying a holiday, taking pictures of themselves, showing what they're doing, that kind of content.

Yes. So we use a whole bunch of different channels. Sometimes, you know, it involves influencers, sometimes, you know, it involves. We got big campaign going on at the moment with Visit Britain. If you go to Dubai or Riyadh, you'll find taxis wrapped with. We go and Visit Britain. Book on wego.

Nice.

You go to the cinema, you'll see joint promotion. You go to YouTube, you'll see joint promotions. So we use both the offline and the digital channels and we try and sync them up and I think it's.

A really important point. We only have 20 minutes. We're nearly done. As an entrepreneur yourself, do you have your own brand strategy? Rob veach, founder and CEO well, it's an interesting question because I'm finding some CEOs have like a dual brand strategy, have a personal brand and a company brand. They run side by side. So just wondering what's been your approach?

Yeah, honestly, I should, but I don't. I'm. By nature, I'm rather private.

Yeah.

And I'd be quite happy never to have to appear in public. Yeah.

Ross has kindly granted me this because we know each other for so long.

Yeah. I have a brand social media PR team who do most of the heavy lifting. I'm fine to sort of disappear into the background, but, you know, I do public speaking when it's helpful. But if you've got Richard Branson or Elon Musk on one side of the spectrum, I'm way over the other side of the spectrum, quite happy to be in the background. And frankly, there's people in the company who do it, you know, better than me or as well. And we also operate in a part of the world where, you know, English is spoken, but Arabic is the primary language and, you know, not one of my strong.

No, I agree with you on that. As well, so Ross, if there's one tip that you can give my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs, and I know you're noticed, but you like to be very discreet. But as a company, what would you say is the one thing that you've done that you'd say to other unnoticed entrepreneurs that are building a business? If you've got one thing to do this to move the needle.

So what's happening at the moment with AI is a sort of like a once in a generation inflection point in technology. You and I lived through the creation of the Internet and we saw how that revolutionize life and business and impacted everything. Right. I think what's happening with AI now is going to be as big, if not bigger. So if you're not already paying attention, I highly recommend you do. It's literally going to reshape every industry. It's going to impact an overwhelming majority of white collar workers and you want to be early, you really don't want to be late. And you know, it's going to change companies, but it's also going to change, you know, the way individuals work. So, yeah, lots of different ways to, you know, dig in and figure out what's going on. But if you're not already paying attention, now is the time to do so.

Sage words and coming from you as an innovator and a visionary on both in the Internet and now as well with the travel business. Russ Veech, if you want to find out more about you and Wego, where can they go?

Wego.com is the website. Look for Wego in the Android or iOS app store. Rossego.com if you want to get in touch.

Ross, thank you for letting me come to the amazing offices you've got down here in the Harbourfront in Singapore to join me on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur interview today. Thank you so much.

It's an honor. Thanks, Jim.

Thank you. So you've been listening to Ross Veatch and I talking about how he's built wego from really, you know, humble beginnings into a billion dollar business that's leading the travel business in the Middle east and also leading it in Southeast Asia. So if you've enjoyed this, do please review, but also most importantly, share it with a fellow Unnoticed Entrepreneur. And until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating. Thanks for listening.

Sam.