Cracking the Sales Code: Dance Like a Cockatoo in the AI Age

You may ask yourself the question, what has a cocker too got to do with sales? And why does a female entrepreneur write about a male salesman in her book? And then also, how does a female entrepreneur write a story and launch it and get her own book to be so successful? Well, the answers to those questions are going to be posed to Gail Casper, who is my princess of Philly. She came on the show a couple of years ago and I'm delighted to have her back because she's such an inspiration and she has an amazing story. Gail, thanks for coming back and telling me about your new book called Cockatoo. Tell us about it.

First of all, Jim, thank you for having me. I love being here and I love the idea of speaking to your audience and contributing to their life in some way. So thank you for having me again. I really appreciate that.

My pleasure.

Cockatoo came about because when I would stop and think, I have been in the sales world world for a lot of years. You know, I started as a single entrepreneur. I was actually fired from my job. I was working inside a training organization. They fired me. I was out on my own overnight having to figure out how to build a consulting business. So I had taken that from consulting with one sales representative to then training the east coast for an entire organization, to continuing to take my sales world and sales training out there into the world. So I know what it is to have to struggle. I know what it is to have to build. I know what it is to constantly have to reinvent yourself. And when I stopped and I looked at today's sales world, it's not just, hey, knocking on doors and hey, I've got a great product here and I want to sell it to you. It is really about understanding and building relationships with customers. And it has always been that, except now, today we need that even more. And that's where Cockatoo comes in. Because Cockatoo, number one, builds a 60 year relationship with you. And number two, they dance. So when you look at what a cockatoo is all about, they dance. And when you are as a sales representative, you have to be able to move and shift with your customer. So that's where the idea of Cockatoo came about. It's really taking what's going on in the sales world and it's elevating it to be as progressive as we can be. Because in today's day and age, like, you have got to be current. You can't just do the same old same old that you've been doing for years.

What has changed then, Gail, because, you know, you talk about it's been the same, but it's changed. What has changed? Because if. If sales is always about relationships, why do we need to revisit that concept?

And that's a great question, Jim. Because reality is that this world is all technology. So we're all behind our phone, we're all behind the computer. And building those relationships is hard. And then on top of that, we have AI So now we're even further removed from our customers. We've got to find ways to get in front of them, to connect with them, to stay connected so that they feel like family, because it doesn't exist anymore. So you have to. In being current, you've got to get around. You've got to maneuver around the technology to get in front of them.

So tell us about Hank, the protagonist in the book. Yeah, we'll ask you after why you've chosen a. I'm assuming it's a male protagonist with a name like Hank.

Yes.

I could be wrong. Gail, tell us about Hank and the journey that he's going on. I'm assuming it's not sort of a Death of a Salesman, Willy Lohman style story. So tell us about Cockatoo. And what are some of the lessons that Hank is going to be teaching us?

All right, so here's the deal. Hank is. Is real. And he's responsible for millions of dollars in sales. And when I studied him, he was a mentor of mine. When I studied him and how he moved, his body language, his tone of voice, his words, everything matched. When Hank would walk in a room, he may not even be there to see you, but you were drawn to look. You just noticed him. You noticed his presence when he spoke. His tone of voice matched his body language. So whether that was empath, whether that was enthusiasm for the product, it was all consistent. Which means that myself as a customer, when I'm listening to Hank, I believe him. And on top of that, Hank had integrity. So, meaning now I not only believe him, I trust him. And on top of that, Hank, because he believes so much in that product, which is what you need today, you've got to have that passion behind what you're selling. If you don't have the passion behind it, don't sell it. It's like any entrepreneur out there, you know, they get involved in a. In a project, they get involved in a mission that means something to them. And every sales rep is the same thing. You've got to be involved with something that means something to you. So you Take that energy and enthusiasm. And because you know what you're doing, you're confident and passionate about what you're selling, you have this momentum and energy that just guides the sales process. It guides the sale forward. And with Hank, you followed him. So it wasn't, hey, you know, hi, I'm Hank and you are. Hank would say his name and you felt compelled to say your name back. You felt compelled to follow him. And in today's day and age, when you were that powerful, you know your product better than the designer themselves, you believe in it, you're able to talk about it, you're able to convince someone of the. Their, you know, take away their fears, to kind of elevate your power and product knowledge so that they want to buy. So that's the, that's the difference with Hank. So it had nothing to do with really male or female. It just happened to do with Hank. Actually.

It's a real person. So it's not a fictitious. It's not an avatar. It's a real guy.

No, but reality is, Jim, I mean, I, I understand. You know, a saleswoman, salesman, you know, we. There was an age that it was salesmen, it was a salesman. That is just the truth of the matter. And there are sometimes phrases that stick with us through the years. So I don't think I ever will not call myself a salesman. And it's not to be disrespectful to women in any way. It just. I am a salesman and I. There's a power behind that. It is the origin of the word and I never want to take away from that. So I. It's just. That's just something about who I am.

Okay. So the. In a way, salesman has become a sort of a gender neutral noun, if we could put it that way. Right. If. If in this day and age we're allowed to have such a thing.

Great. That's. That's the key. Are we.

Yeah, I don't know whether, Whether we're. I'm getting too old probably to stay in touch, and I'm getting too old to really care. Frank, actually, what pronoun. What pronoun I'm using.

I know that. See, but that's how. That's why I say at one time, that's what it was. And there is a power behind it, and I don't want to take away from that. I don't have to be a saleswoman. I'm a salesman. That's it. Cut and dry.

Let's just say you sell things. There you go. That solves the whole problem with a little bit of word play. Get us around that. So, Gail, though, let's just think then about the challenges facing people that are making sales, which is really the transaction, right, between what some company or person has built and what somebody needs. How do you see the future of sales going? Because I spoke with a number of people now who talk about the next generation of people, the young people coming in, having kind of missed some of the socialization due to Covid, for example, and the advent of mobile phones, that actually they're having multiple simultaneous conversations with people that they've never met. So in the context of Cockatoo in the book that you've launched, what would be some of the skills, if you like, some of the best practices that you'd be encouraging people to adopt in order to go back, if you like, to the human. The human condition and the importance of those relationships?

And I totally understand what you're saying, because the world is making a transition between Millennial, Generation Z. Generation Z is not quite there yet where it's all, you know, technology, all on the phone. We see a lot of that right now with Amazon, because online buyers, not just Amazon, but across the board, are like $800 billion in sales. It's some ridiculous number. We have over 5 billion people that are using the Internet today. So there's a lot of action going on online. And it's really simple for us to go to the computer and buy whatever, you know, whether that is a car or you're buying a computer or you're just buying, you know, some pens, it doesn't matter. You can buy it all online. So there really, there is a transition going on. But if, let's say, a Generation Z or Millennial, they really want to get ahead of the game in terms of sales. They want to catch up with their communication skills, meaning you want to be at the top of the pack, then learn those outside skills, be ahead of everyone else. There is negative connotation when it comes to sales. You know, a salesman and you know they're selling you something, and that's their job, and they want to take you and get your money from you. The reality is that in sales, we are there to help. And if you walk in the door to see someone or someone comes to see you and they're selling you something, they are there to help you. They're there to present you with the options, to figure out what's best for you. And honestly, you wouldn't have called them or you wouldn't go to see them if you didn't intend to buy because you don't have to today, you can go online and buy something. But if a generation is really going to stay ahead of the game today, get out from behind your phone and start to communicate with people, start to go to networking events, start to get out there and have real conversations with everyone, because that's going to put you ahead of the curve. People can't connect with you behind an email or behind your phone. They can only truly connect with you face to face.

Gail, do you think that matters for low value items, or is that only really around high ticket items? That's going to be an important skill to have.

Well, the low, low value items, low ticket items, again, we can buy them online and we may want to. It might just be easier for us. But if it's an investment we're uncertain of, like, I'm not sure which direction I want to go, that's where that face to face is going to be truly valuable. Is the world going more toward online? It is. But again, that doesn't take away from the fact that if you want to be ahead of the pack, be an excellent communicator. Be an excellent communicator. And if I could give kids in high school that skill to get in front of groups, to communicate effectively, to learn the skills that will put them ahead in this world, those are the skills that are ultimately going to do it, not what's going to keep them behind the computer or behind their phone.

Yes. And ironically enough, in this day and age of AI, it'll be the ability to be human that will be the differentiator, won't it? The technology will become transparent to the user, and it'll be the empathy, as you say with Hank, the warmth, the loyalty that will differentiate with the book, with the Cockatoo. You've self published. And Gail, when you came on the podcast before, I was amazed at how you'd managed to write books, have audio books. You'd managed to go across the hallway and get yourself a position just by showing up really, and putting yourself there, but also really doing the work. Tell us about the work involved in writing Cockatoo. Because it's a story in itself.

Yeah. It's kind of funny, actually, because when I was thinking about Cockatoo, it was going to be this little tiny book, you know, one of those little quick reads with quotes inside. And, you know, the more I started writing, the more I kept writing and then kept writing and kept writing, and now it's like a 200 page book. But in the beginning, it wasn't going to be that. And I think it's important for anyone that's thinking about writing a book is you want it to be comprehensive because people have to understand it. They have to be able to follow your mindset and follow the outline. And it needs to make sense. So you can't just rush it. Unless it's a book that's been in your head forever and you've kind of been letting it evolve over the years and writing little notes here and there, well, that's different. But if you're sitting down with an idea to write a book, you know, really plan it out. Write that first draft. Like, just go through and write whatever. You're not grading it, you're not planning it, you're not doing anything with it other than a stream of thoughts. And what you're going to find is that that stream of thoughts will then take a different form. You'll change the outline around, you move, shift things, you'll. You'll reorganize things, and then you'll start to add to it. And I would say I've had maybe seven or eight drafts of the book, meaning that I would go in and I would continue to say, okay, well, I got to add to this area. Wait a minute, I can expand on this. But then it reaches a point where you could expand forever. Like, meaning you can be in draft mode forever and. And you don't want to stay in that space. You know, you gotta reach a point where you say, okay, it's done. You know, it's done. So it is. It's a very interesting process. And you know that you have several books that are out there, Jim. So it's. It's a very interesting process. Not an easy one at all. And to take it for granted or just think you're going to throw it together or call your first draft done. Like I said, unless you've got the history elements that really make it solid. And even then, you want to make sure you have an editor in place, because you want to know if there are gaps. You want to know that you want it to be right. See, we talk about today's day and age and kids and the world. Do it right. Do it right. Do it right or don't do it.

Well, I remember on our previous call, you just talked about the aim for perfection and how you recognize that everything that you produce has an impact on your personal brand and that you wanted everything to look as good as possible. And I remember that very, very clearly. And that was something that stuck with me was your attention to detail and your work rate because the combined impact of those two means that you're extremely busy. I know, Gail. So when it comes to the promotion for Cockatoo, tell us about that. Because as hard as it is to publish a book, actually that's only really sort of 10 to 20% of the journey with the book. So how do you plan on promoting the book and getting it out there into. Into the hands of people who need it?

Yeah. And you know, if you find yourself like I'm self publishing, so if you find yourself a good self publisher, they can help support some of those efforts. And I always encourage to social media. I'm really fortunate. I have about 180,000 followers combined with all of my social media. So to me, you know, you're always wanting to talk about it, talk about the book, talk about elements of it, promote it out there on the social media platforms. So that's one way. And then the other way is strictly through my speaking and training programs too. Like I make sure that I include the book, especially if I'm doing sales training. That is part of the process. And the program, if I'm training in sales, is Cockatoo. So it does fall in line with, you know, participants actually getting copies of the book. So I, I think it's. You have to be doing it consistently and you have to be talking about it with everyone. And any place you can online is where it's going to make a difference.

And, and you've got a. The book Cockatoo now, is it available on Amazon already?

It is. It is available on Amazon. It's available Barnes and Noble. It should be out there both in the ebook form as well as making. Or you, you know, you can actually purchase the book and get the hard copy.

Okay, that's brilliant. And also if you go to gailcasper.com she is kindly offering a preview for unnoticed entrepreneur listeners. And I'll put a link to that because she has a cocktube preview which if you're looking at the YouTube channel here, you can see glamorous as always, because it is Gail, my princess of Philly here doing this. So we'll include the link which gives people a preview to the book as well. But it's available on Amazon, which is fantastic. Gil, what about taking the book and using it then on your social media? You said you've got 150,000 followers and that's not a function of luck, that's a function of hard work. Yes, Everyone knows that you don't get followers without giving value right to them.

That's exactly right.

How did you do that? How did you get so many followers? Why don't give us a bit of advice there.

You know, it's interesting because I think that once you figure out what people are interested in and then you are consistent in that marketing effort, people will follow. But there's no simple answer to that. Like, I didn't have this official plan when I did it, and, okay, this is what's going to build out my social media. I knew the direction I was going, and then I consistently marketed in that direction, and then people followed and. But it's actively too participating in their world. Like, social media isn't, okay, well, I've got my 130,000 followers on Facebook, you know, follow me. It's also being engaged with others. I do the same thing on Instagram. I think I have almost 15,000 on Instagram. But you've got to kind of participate in the world, and sometimes that's hard to do. Sometimes you forget I've done it. Meaning that people are liking my stuff and engaging with my stuff. And I'm like, well, wait a minute, Gail, you got to start engaging with theirs. You know, it's not all about you.

Well, but it's very hard, though, isn't it? Because if you've got that many followers, if you know, that's a lot of conversations. And ironically enough, we started the conversation too, about people need to get out one to one.

Yes.

And yet the way you've amplified your presence is at scale, isn't it? Gail, I know this may seem a slightly awkward question, but how do you reconcile that? Because on the one hand, we need the human interaction one to one, and on the other hand, to get maybe commercial success, certainly for a book, you do need scale.

Yes.

So what's your view on how entrepreneurs can overcome what might seem to be mutually exclusive challenges?

I think you need to block time for your social media, you know, or. And let me give you a sense of what I do. Like, I go on every morning and I kind of see what's happening or where I need to engage. And then I go back on, like, around the noon time, so around. So it's a break for maybe my writing, my work that I have to get done. But at the same time, it's okay, what's happening with my brand and how am I. What am I going to do next? And then I do the same thing at night, and sometimes at nighttime, it becomes too. I Haven't, until recently, really enjoyed this. But to go on Instagram and, like, look at the, you know, the best dessert that has like 80 grams of protein in it and it only has three ingredients or something like that. You know what I mean? Like, to look at some of those videos on Instagram is fun and interesting and sometimes it's about animals and they make me smile. I mean, so I think you, you find that balance, but you also make sure you are scheduling time to be out in the world, to network, to take yourself away from your business entrepreneurs. I can't emphasize that enough because I'm not practicing what I'm preaching right now. I work all the time, but we, I myself have to get out there and make a promise to all of you that I'm going to do it. You two have to get out there, talk to other people, let them know there has never, never been a negative with me getting out and talking to people about my business. Somebody somewhere has either looked me up. That in itself is great. So I'm talking to somebody, they look me up on their phone. Awesome. Thumbs up. There's no loss in that. So we've got to make sure that we have that balance.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. In the third volume of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur book that I've just finished and will come out in October of 2020 and 24 with Wiley, a recurring theme from the entrepreneurs that I've interviewed, including you that are in the book, is the need to engage. The need to get out from behind the desk, the phone, and meet people, even if they're not customers. The social interaction is important, but also it gives you clues to what is or is not going on in the world. So you don't just live in your own world, especially for those of us that are maybe, you know, working from home, as I've been doing, and maybe not have a team permanently in the office, which is more and more people, let's face it, Gail, and not surrounded by a team and going to the office every day. Gail, what, what's your view on and use of AI? Because you've written Cockatoo, which is really about humans and getting out and about. What do you think Hank would have made of AI and how would he have used it, do you think, to make a better job?

I don't think Hank would have used AI. I don't. I myself am split on AI. I. I do not like when people write things for me, whether it's copy or maybe they're doing a promo for me. And they're writing it. I can tell it's AI and I squash it and eliminate it immediately. I am not a fan of utilizing AI to do your marketing for you or to write your, your book for you or anything else. What I do like AI for is to stimulate ideas. So I might utilize AI to say, okay, I want to write something, blah, blah, blah, or I need three tips on public speaking. And I'm not going to utilize what they write, but they might spark something where I'm like, huh, Public speaking, okay, they're really re emphasizing the importance of the eye contact or whatever it might. And I'll write my own stuff, but they'll spark an idea. They'll get me to remember something maybe I forgot. They'll, they'll, they'll position something to say, this is what's happening that's current. Well, hey, what am I going to do to make that different and better? So I'm not a fan of AI I'm not a fan of AI reaching out, making phone calls for me. I'm not a fan of it. Like, AI is not, is not my friend, but by the same respect can be your best friend if you utilize it right.

I'd agree with that. And I found, actually just this morning, I'm working on a course and I was able to speak to the AI and say, I'm doing this, this, and this kind of feedback brainstorm with me here. Because if you ring up anybody and say, can you brainstorm with me for half an hour about something? They'd be like, well, Jim, Jim, I'm busy. But the AI was there to have a kind of a brainstorm. So as you say, useful but not a replacement.

And you can tell if I see the word Jim transformation one more time in somebody's copy. Transformation. Oh, my God. AI can't come up with anything else other than transformation. But if you knew the number of times I read that in emails like that come to me. The word transformation. No, I can't handle it anymore. I can't, I can't. It's so redundant. It's got to stop.

Well, the only thing I've started to use the word transformation, which I'm now worried about writing to you because in the book called the Experience Economy, they talk very much about with by James Gilbert, they talk about the Transformation Economy, about how people are going to move from Experience Economy to Transformation Economy. But now you've made me nervous, girl, that if I write Transformation Economy, you're going to be just deleting my, my.

Emails I'll never delete your emails.

Too kind. But I have used the word transformation. But I did write it myself with a couple of typos, I think a few times.

That's okay. That's okay.

Gail, we've talked about, I just mentioned a book I've been reading. What books or podcasts do you read as an entrepreneur you find inspirational?

Typically, I will always number one with podcasts. I Google all the sales podcasts because I want to stay on top of what's going on in the world with sales and what they're talking about and make sure that I'm current. So there's, that's just consistent to do a Google search with regard to sales. The one book that I always keep close to me that I never ever kind of leave by my side is the Art of Closing the Sale with Brian Tracy. And the reason for that is because of his human psychology and the understanding of the human brain and how works when it comes to dealing with people. And there's certain books I think in life that you always have to keep by your side. And for me, that's one of them.

Gail, that's, that's a great Brian Tracy. Of course, he's got great podcasts as well and books and ebooks as well. So thanks for that, Gail. Speaking of which, I am going to just share on the YouTube for anyone that's looking on the screen, we've got Sell like a Cockatoo. It's on Amazon and Amazon.com and that's Gail Casper, which is Gail G A I L and Casper with a K for anyone that is unsure. Gail, if you want to reach out to you or follow you, where can they do that?

They can go right to gailcasper.com I have contact forms that are right there. There is a contact page. They can reach me. I also want to make sure that whether you're an entrepreneur, a business leader manager, I'm offering a free webinar at Offer Forward slash webinar. You can go there. I'm delivering some new content on how customers react when they're being sold. So how do you make those adjustments? How do you increase your revenue as an entrepreneur? How do you increase your revenues when it comes to your products? So I welcome you to again, no obligation, no cost, you can just go to that website and again, offer.GailCasper.com webinar.

Gail, you're amazing. And of course now with Apple doing the automatic transcripts, I can put this in the show notes, but actually you could just look at Apple look in the transcripts and you can find Gail's URL in that as well in case I make a mistake. Gail, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you. It was wonderful to see you again. Thank you for having me.

Honestly, it's my pleasure to have you come across on the show. And once again, for anyone listening, Gail Casper. She's an inspiration because she's one of the most hard working entrepreneurs, but also one of the most inspirational entrepreneurs that I've had the pleasure to meet and have on the microphone with me on the Unnoticed Entrepreneur. If you've enjoyed this show, do please share it with a fellow Unnoticed Entrepreneur because you don't want anyone to go unnoticed.

Never.

Until we meet again. Never. And until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating.