Over 40,000 tenants avoided eviction during COVID with access to this free legal justice.

5 billion people around the world don't have access to justice. And when we talk about access to justice, it's not only access to courts, but it's access to simple legal services. Over 86% of the American population doesn't have access to justice as well. So we have both the human element and the technology element that help us to create at least solutions that can make content or legal information accessible and understandable.

Hello and welcome to this episode of the Unnoticed Show. Or should I be saying Ola? Because I've got Mauricio Duarte joining me. Mauricio, thanks for joining me. Actually from Denver, Colorado. But you're originally from Guatemala, aren't you?

Yeah, correct, Jim.

So, Mauricio, you're a trained lawyer and you've recently given up all of that goes with legal life to join a company called Access to Justice Technology, which is a social enterprise that builds technology to improve access to justice, which is amazing. You're on the show to share with us how you've been able to start to do the marketing for an enterprise and help the products and the services that this organization is offering to the disenfranchised to get notice. So can you just tell us more about access to justice and what you're doing for people?

Yeah. So, first of all, thank you for the invitation, Jim, as always. We were talking in the background. It's always good to meet interesting people with, I guess, with the podcast community. I have my own podcast in Spanish, but that's not the item here. But going to your question, access to justice is a real, let's say, worldwide problem. It's not a problem only in my home country, where I come from, in Guatemala, it's not only a problem in the US It's a worldwide problem. And the first, let's say, data entry that caught my attention as I was transitioning from a path of becoming a senior associate or a partner at a big law firm. It was 5 billion people around the world don't have access to justice. And when we talk about access to justice, it's not only access to courts, but it's access to simple legal services. So sometimes as attorneys, we have expensive, let's say, fees attached to our services. So many, let's say, underserved people cannot access those services. And access to justice is a very broad term. But with that, I also focus myself on the US that was a market that I wanted to start working on. And the data show that over 86% of the American population doesn't have access to justice as well. As so again, even in a market as complex and as robust as the US Market, there's a lot of need for enhancing access to justice. And again, it's not only access to a judicial court, it's not only access to an attorney, but it comes to access to legal information. How can I understand what rights do I have if I'm a tenant, if I'm a mom, if I'm a dad, what are the rights that I have in any type of conflict or issue that might arise? So with that we, I came together with a 2J tech that is very focused on how can we provide two different approaches. One, free solutions that could be leveraged by technology to provide productized legal services. So that means you need a document, you need a form, you need an additional, let's say, item for your legal needs. How can you create that by your own do it yourself. We call it diy. Do it by yourself using technology. And the second item that we started is how can we create if we cannot create a free solution? How can we provide solutions or products that could be affordable at a very low rate that can, let's say anyone can use? So with those efforts, I would say the biggest challenge has been two things. One is when you come from the legal industry and you become an attorney, you are used to very sophisticated words, talking and speaking. And sometimes myself, when I have certain discussions with practicing attorney. Can you. You rephrase that? Because sometimes we use, and I used to do it, I still use it from time to time, phrases in Latin and very complex words to explain something very easy. So instead of saying, oh, this is wrong, you would say probably, oh, this is not the best approach to this specific situation. Like you're changing the wording to make it more complex. But you gotta think that at the end of the let's say on the access to justice market, the people that you talking with is not a entrepreneur, it's not a businessman. It's something that someone that probably doesn't have access to Internet probably is someone that didn't go to college, or someone that probably had to drop out of school because of their circumstances, or maybe someone that didn't even go to school at all. So when you have to translate the legal information to the, I would say the wider population, it's a real, let's say, challenge to translate those complex words. And even the statues that Congress passes that have some complex words around it, how can you create accessible language for people to understand what rights they have? That was the biggest challenge, I would say. And the second has been Internet. Even though now we think that Internet is a need for everyone around the world, there are still people that don't have even access to a desktop computer. Some of them might have probably, if they're lucky, access to a cell phone or maybe even a tablet. But we have to stop thinking that everyone has access to Internet and a computer. So with that, sometimes our challenge comes how can we create solutions that can leap off of the grid or off Internet to try to provide more solutions that don't necessarily depend on Internet? Although Internet is a powerful technology, if we cannot create or be innovative enough to create additional solutions that can be offline, then we sometimes hit a wall or shortcoming because we are not helping the population that doesn't have access to Internet, which is a bigger issue. I would say Access to justice have a strong and direct correlation with access to Internet and access to Internet. The data has shown that there's a very big issue as well, especially during the pandemic. So if you don't have Internet, sometimes you don't even have access to some of the solutions. So that is probably the two biggest challenges that we on access to justice. How can we communicate information and how can we create more solutions that are offline that can have a bigger impact on the population?

So you've bitten off quite a big problem to solve there, haven't you? Over 5 billion people, according to your website, don't have access to legal justice. So you've got some 70 to 80% of all people have had some civil issue arise in their lives. It can be a marital one, can't it? It could be a theft, it can be an accident, any number of things that need attention from maybe legal support. So Mauricio, you've highlighted two big issues. One is about the content, one is about the delivery. How have you solved then at Access to Justice the like, the simplification of the content? We have this in other spheres, of course, where in the medical industry or even in technology industries. In an attempt to sound like an authority, the people who are speaking about these topics use language that distances them from the audience. How have you solved that? At Access to Justice in my industry.

And I'm glad that I have now the privilege of working with other professionals. So you work with, let's say, copywriters, that sometimes they get the content from an attorney such as myself. I do their research and I try to word it and we try to achieve or strive for a six level reading level, which is, let's say, common in the industry. And then sometimes say, this is not sixth grade level this year, this is probably ninth grade. So sometimes working with other professionals. And I would say that's the biggest change that I've seen in the legal industry, that now we're working with other professionals, with other industries and understanding that you can convey information in a simple way, but you need other professionals or they're experienced to say people that can also help. Like you don't know everything. I don't know everything. Sometimes as attorney, I used to think I know everything, but I do not. I do know certain aspects, but I know that other professionals can bring more to the table and bring a lot of value. So I would say that is number one. And the other thing is that we have technology or use technology and tools that help us just to make sure that we are say, making the good approach and wording a specific, let's say statue or specific. That makes it understandable. And again, that sixth grade reading level. So we have both the human element and the technology element that help us to create at least solutions that can make content or legal information accessible and understandable.

Then let's talk about the second part, which is the technology and the delivery. People used to get newspapers, for example, with notices in them. And those are not necessarily appearing on street corners anymore, especially in the time of COVID How are you making the documentation and the device accessible to people that maybe don't have the Internet, maybe have a mobile device, a phone instead, for example?

Yep. Correct. And I would say the biggest our vision whenever we create a product or a solution is always if we're building something, don't think that you're building it for a computer, think that you're building it for a mobile phone. Number one, that is our priority because the odds are that people are going to have access to a phone rather than a computer or a laptop. So always our focus is built for mobile first, build for desktop and laptop second. But with that mentality, it always comes, let's say, a struggle. And it goes a lot of testing, for instance, saying, does it look good on Android? Yeah, but it doesn't look good on iPhone. So you gotta, let's say, do a lot of testing and iterations of a product or a solution only to test if it looks good in mobile, and if it looks good in mobile, then we can move to desktop and laptops. I would say, however, other alternatives that we have found in other projects that we've been involved with Access to justice is in certain jurisdictions, in certain states, or certain, let's Say regions of a state. And even around the world, people don't have a lot of access to even mobile phones. So what we have created or the projects that we have been involved with is creating what we call legal kiosks. So instead of you needing Internet, you can go to a public library, you can go to a governmental office, or you can go to places that you would normally walk around, and you can access that solution on a legal kiosk. Obviously that requires more budgeting and more funding, but sometimes, for instance, the last year, the federal government in the US Health project on legal kiosks. But that's how you can create alternatives that are outside of you needing a mobile phone or computer. It would only probably require you walking a couple of blocks from your nearest library or the nearest public office. But that's how an alternative can be provided. And you don't need Internet because again, that system is embedded on that legal kiosk. But are the type of alternatives that we're also looking at when we see that the bigger issue of access to Internet is something that can have an impact on how we deliver our products or our solutions for Access to Justice.

That's a really innovative solution and reminds me of some people called Janajal who are delivering water in the same way through kiosks where the pipes are no longer able to supply fresh water. So this idea of delivery in situ at point of need for information, as it is for water in certain markets, really fascinating. Mauricio, can you give us an example of a project that Access to Justice has worked on recently and how that's changed some lives?

Yeah, I would say the. Probably one of the best and recent examples was during the pandemic during last year. So in the US just to give a bit of context, the Centers for the Citizen Control and Prevention, or what is called the cdc, issued an order that it was an order to prevent eviction. Under the scope of this order of last year, any tenant that was living in a housing project or in an apartment could not get evicted. But the only requirement, besides meeting some eligibility requirements was filing a declaration letter. And that's how it's called to your landlord. Or so you had to create this legal letter that has some legal wording based on the CDC wording. You have to create it and give it to your landlord. So with that, I remember it was probably September 1, it was late at night when we heard the news that this was coming out. We weren't expecting this order. So with the CEO, we had a discussion probably. I remember it was 6pm late in the afternoon and we say, okay, we have. This could be something really impactful on access to justice. If we say that we are or a company focused on access to justice, we have to create a solution for this. So in 48 hours we brought the whole team together and we'll say leave everything else on the table. If you're working on a project, stop that. If you're taking a break, you have to come back. We are investing all of our efforts and resources from the company. Again, this wasn't financed by a third party of someone else. It was financed by the own company in 48 hours because the order was about to come on September 4th. So we had only 48 hours to work on this prototype, built a solution that came now called COVID 19 eviction forms. So with that we created a website. We created, let's say document automation platform so you can automate the declaration letter to give to your landlord. And now that we go back, and yesterday we even created a social media post. If we go to the organic growth of the solution since it was first launched, we are nearing 40,000 users that have created an eviction ladder. And with this, let's say simple prototype that again, it was in 48 hours, it wasn't something that needed angel round financing or sit around financing to create something meaningful and impactful. We just created in 48 hours. But I would say the important thing was everyone was passionate about this solution, everyone was into it. And with that I would say the passion of the project, the user could understand or see the passion that was put into this platform. So with that, the organic growth of the solution was amazing. I would say we didn't need Google Ads, we didn't need Facebook ads, or we didn't need PR statements or let's say the traditional marketing of a solution. It was a very organic growth. And how it started is we started with our social media. If you go back in our posts in Twitter and LinkedIn, they're probably the two main platforms that we were very active. We started, we launched COVID 19 eviction forms, English and Spanish and then we added additional languages in Portuguese, Somali and we added a bunch of languages to make it, let's say, inclusive and multicultural for that platform. But as things progressed and as we were looking October, November, December, we noticed that there was peaks of traffic in a website and we started wondering why do we have such a lot of interest if we created this out of scratch? We haven't given a marketing budget, we haven't even a called news Media. But as we were figuring it out, users were referring our platform to other users. But those users at the same time were referring our platform to housing projects or to legal aids or to nonprofits that were tackling nonprofits or we're tackling, sorry, housing issues. So with that we started looking at news. I remember reading a newspaper article that was mentioning our platform. Then we were Featured in the APA, let's say COVID 19 Response Solutions. And like that we started being featured in many platforms. But again, it was an organic growth. We didn't need a big budget of marketing. We just needed a good impression from the user, which again goes to testing. We need to test, test and iterate the solution. Because if the user has a good experience, so that goes to UX ui. On a technology level, if the user has a good experience, they're going to refer to someone else, probably they know a bunch of colleagues or acquaintances that are in need of the same solution. So again, it was a very organic growth. And I would say now the CDC order has been, let's say extended through June 30, 2021 and we expect hopefully being at 50,000 by that day, even more. But who knows? And again, it has been a very organic growth. And that at least for us, it was a lesson on if you create a meaningful solution that is going to have impact on users and especially on access to justice. That is the industry that we are dealing with. People are going to need it and people are going to start referring it to someone else. Again you. Not necessarily always if you build something, there's the saying that you build it and they're going to come. It doesn't happen like that always. But if you create something meaningful that is going to have a tangible positive impact in someone's life, they're going to come if they see that they are in need and you are providing something for free. Again, that was because of a specific model. People are going to come. But again, you don't have to think that in order for something to be successful you need big marketing budgets or you need big expenditures on Google Ads or hiring digital agency for, let's say leading your efforts. It could be a very organic growth. And the one that was doing the social media was me, that I'm not a trained digital marketer. I'm not a social media guru, I'm just an attorney with some experience on using Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn and I use HootSuite probably to post the social media at the same time. But that's it. Again, that's how we've seen and many of our other products and solutions have had the same traction on a very organic growth and approach.

Yeah, Marissa, that's fantastic. It's what they call the cascade theory that if you share information that is new and easy to understand, that people are more likely to cross the threshold of reservation and to share it with others. And that sounds like an absolutely fantastic example of the cascade theory at work. And finally then for Access to Justice, if people want to find out more about the projects and the services, Mauricio, because you have some documentation, automation, you have some graphic design, you have project management and some bespoke projects as well, I believe. How can people find out about you?

Yeah. So to find more about A2J Tech, you can go to our website, that is goat jtech.com or you can find us on social media on LinkedIn and Twitter, probably the two main social media that we are active. We are on Instagram, but we are not as active. So you can find us as a2jtech on LinkedIn and on Instagram and on Twitter you can find us as goat jtech. And we always happy to help, happy to answer questions, happy to collaborate or even partner up on projects that are in need of solutions for the legal industry.

Mauricio, you yourself have an inspiring story coming from Guatemala and taking up the mantle for law and then moving across to a platform where you can serve people with access to Justice. So hats off to you and thanks so much for sharing both an inspiring story from your own life, but also with what you're doing with Access to Justice. Thank you so much for being on the Unnoticed show today.

Thank you Jim.

So you've been to Mauricio Duarte, who's in Denver, Colorado today, but is all the way from Guatemala talking about really creating products and services that serve a need. And I think the inspiring story around their Covid eviction notice is that if you create a good or service that is readily identifiable and needed, then regardless of the marketing, the consumers will come and take it and they'll share with other people that they know. And that is the cascade theory. So thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Unnoticed Show. My name is Jim James and if you like this show, please do subscribe. And in the meantime we wish you the best of health, a profitable business and that if you're looking for some legal support, you could check out A J Technology in the States and I'll put their website in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening.