Personal branding for business owners

My guest today is living proof that doesn't matter where you start, it's where you want to get to that matters. And it's the purpose that you drive your life with that is going to get you there. We're going all the way to Indonesia to meet Donna Amelia, who is the co-founder of a group called the EGN, which is Asia's premier peer network. But she's also come from a background of being a keynote speaker, a performing artist with her own record labels and TV shows. She started in a bamboo hut, I guess it'd be fair to call it, in the villages of Indonesia and the kampungs there, but is now in TV studios and boardrooms around the world. Donna Amelia, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Jim. It's my pleasure to be here today. Thank you so much for having me.

Well, it's my pleasure because what an amazing story. You know, I personally lived in Singapore back in '95 through 2006, and I used to love going to Indonesia, but I do know that parts of Indonesia and part of the rural areas are pretty cut off and not necessarily the centers where people would expect celebrities to come from. But you've managed to do that. So let's find out from you a little bit about your backstory, but also some of the life stories and some of the influences that have made you who you are today and some advice that you would give anyone that's thinking maybe they don't have anything to give. You're a living example that there is always something to give to everybody else to brighten up the world. So, Donna Amelia, tell us a little bit about you first, and then we'll talk about the journey and how you've managed to create yourself into a brand and into a business from the villages of Indonesia.

Thank you for the great question indeed. So yes, I was born in a rural area in Indonesia called Malimping. Back then, yeah, I completely agree with you. '86, we don't have any electricity. I was grew up in a bamboo house. Full of holes, no electricity, dirt floor. We need to fetch water from outside, right? But again, I think with those kind of circumstances, there's always like a brightness and also the silver lining. For me, I was having great-great-great parents that love me so much. So yeah, despite all the adversity, they always there for me. They always give me some encouragement and all. Although my dad was just graduate from university, my mom just graduate from senior high school when they had me. So they don't have the money to even buy me milk. So I drink starchy liquid from rice instead, which is probably now is a good thing because maybe that is, you know, something that is more organic and so on and so forth. But back then it's because, you know, we don't have the money to just give me that. And even having a chocolate for me when I was a child, it's like a dream, you know. I still remember that when I was, you know, growing up, probably about 5, 6 years, I grew up with my grandmother. My grandma told me, hey, Dona, if you play with your friends and you see that they are having chocolate or candy and you want it, never ask to them. Go back to Grandma and I— if I have it, I'll give it to you. But if it is not, don't be sad. Instead, you need to be grateful because God give you so much thing. You are pretty, you are blessed, and most importantly, you need to give to them instead of asking. And I'm like, give what? I don't have money, I don't have candy, I don't have chocolate. What do I give? And then my grandma told me, you can give your kindness and you can give your smile, because regardless what background, regardless you have money or not, you can always give your kindness and give your smile. I mean, back then you are kids, right? You just like, okay, okay, I will keep smiling and all. But actually, that is very powerful because that is, uh, like the things that brought me to who I am today. My purpose in life is to make my parents happy and everybody happy through anything I do in life, through me being an actress, singer, TV presenter, entrepreneur now, or a coach or a speaker, whatever it is. My purpose is to make people happy. You know, if I can give happiness just through a smile, I'll be very grateful. And that smile, regardless your background, regardless your financial situation or whatever what happened to you, you can always give those smile. So I think that is one thing that, you know, very, very powerful to me. And yeah, and I also remember the influence of my dad. My dad was a teacher back then, and then he heard that, you know, there is a filming happening near my hometown when I was in the senior high school. So my dad, in the pouring rain with the old motorbike with the thunder, he drove there, brought my photograph just to show to the producer that, hey, I do have a daughter. She can sing. She might be able to act. Would you like to cast her? And of course, he got rejected immediately. Like, who are you? Like, get away. Oh my God. But then my dad not give up. He never give up. And he keep telling me that, Dona, I believe you will be successful one day. I know that you will help many people. I know I cannot give you anything, but I know you have a talent, and I know that you're willing to work hard, so then you will be very, very successful. So that was my story when I was a child, and the value that I, you know, keep until now. And also back then, you know, it was patriarchy kind of, you know, like living situation in Indonesia. But then my mom still helping my dad to also sell something in the market, and also Since I was a child, I know that, oh, as a woman, we can also contribute. We can also help our family. And also, we also need to work hard. So since I was a child, I know exactly my purpose in life is to make my parents happy, bringing them from the poverty to have a better life, to the point that I would love to make people happy. So that is a little bit of my story that I brought up. And also, I still keep the value until now I becoming an entrepreneur.

And Donna, what an amazing story. I can imagine or visualize your dad on those little Honda Dreams, probably, right? Where there's little 90ccs driving, driving along the lanes there, trying to get to the producers. So Donna, you, you've managed to then go from sort of TV and to the music. Just tell us a little bit about what, if you like, took you down that path. Because I mean, helping people could have also been working as a teacher or being in the medical profession, for example. Obviously, you could sing and you're an attractive young person. You know, your dad was out there for you, but you said you got rejected first time. So what happened? How did you get that first gig and what was it?

Right. So I think it was start when I was in the senior high school. One of my family got the wedding party and then I sang there like the first time. That time my dad knows that, oh, my daughter has a talent of singing. So since then I sing all over the place, like from wedding to wedding and so on and so forth. So since then I already paid for my own study and so on since I was in the senior high school. And then when I was in the university, I still do the same. And you know, because I really love to help my parents, I keep singing every single day and night and then study at the same time in the university. And all the money I have, I give it to my parents so then they can have a better life. I still remember the first thing that I gave to my parents was the, what is it, the money to buy a stove and then a washing machine because normally I'm the one who wash for them but then, oh no, I'm gone, you know, with poor mom, she has nobody to help her so all the money I have, I give it to her to the point that I managed to give her a house, a car, go, I mean, bring them to Hajj because in Indonesia, as a Muslim, nothing better than give them a gift to be able to travel to Haifa. So yeah, I was doing that and I'm very grateful for that since I was in the university. Yeah, so that is like the beautiful things about it. It started with, you know, you doing something that seems simple, just to sing in the wedding of your family and then your dads know it. And then from there, My dad always go with me everywhere singing. And then from 2007, I already made my own album when I was in the university. And then when I graduate from university, I go to Jakarta. And then from there, I spread out the wing even more. So I become a TV presenter and actress and all. One of my TV program won 8-time Panasonic Gobel Awards. And then people see me on TV every day at 11:00 AM for my program. And also for my movie series, normally people will see me every day 6 PM because it's rolling every day, right? But of course it's not coming easy because first of all, I don't have any background of, let's say, singing school or acting school. And also everything I do in life is just God bless through the talent that God gave me and the support from my parents because they know— although they— my dad told me like, although I have nothing, I cannot give you anything, but I know I can give you my blessing. And my support, and he always believed in me. My mom also the same. So yeah, I need to work super hard to go to, let's say, one role. If I do 10 casting or 15 casting, if I get one goal, that's already perfect. Because you can imagine, in Indonesia is 250 million people. A lot of girls wanted to be in my position, right? And of course they're also pretty, they're young, they're also rich, and they have the background and so on and so forth. But I guess when you really know your talent and your strength and you have— you need to hold on your values, like really work hard on that. I'm so grateful to be able to, you know, like pursue my dreams and yeah, having those great opportunity to be in a great, great program during my life in the showbiz basically. But it's not easy. Of course it's not easy. I got so many rejection also as mentioned. From 10 to 15, if you get one, you're lucky already for the one program.

Well, Donna, and you remind me a little bit about the story of your dad hearing you sing at a wedding, because I think Whitney Houston used to sing in a church, didn't she? And that was her beginnings, was being seen. But the reason I wanted to ask you what was the pivotal moment was because for most entrepreneurs, there is a moment, there's an event when they cross from obscurity into a bit of publicity. But you then have to leverage that. And what you've also then talked about is just how hard you've had to work day in, day out. As you say, Indonesia, 250 million people, obviously half of them are, you know, half of them are men, but you've got a lot of talented and attractive women competing because the path of celebrity, of course, for many people is the dream path, isn't it really, in terms of the lifestyle and so on, especially with media and so on as it is today. Yeah. How have you used social media, Donna? Um, because I'd love to move on to the building of the brand Donna Amelia. Have you social media— because the, you know, as you say, when you grew up there wasn't electricity. When I moved to Singapore in '95, we didn't have the internet, for example. We didn't have mobile phones yet. How have you built the brand of Donna Amelia using the, the tools that are available. And I'd love to hear your strategy for that.

Sure. So back then when I was still in my showbiz, I do have not yet so much— we don't have Facebook, Instagram, and so on and so forth back then, right? So the only media that is available, especially in Indonesia, is TV. So basically, if you are on TV every day, you kind of an artist and a celebrity and all. And that is the social media, the biggest one that you have. So everyone really fighting looking for it. And it's very hard because it's only certain programs, right, on TV basically. So what I do is, of course, I do have, um, uh, like a kind of joining, uh, the agency and so on, but not so much in the agency that, you know, having so many act— uh, actress or a singer under them. I do have like one person who really taking care of me, but probably she also taking off a few other people, but really like, um, tailor-made for me. So she's really, uh, taking care of me, and then she has the network, uh, throughout all the showbiz life. And then we have the percentage that we, we agreed to. So for example, it depends, let's say, in the, um, even in with the record label, right? Some, some record label will have, let's say, 20-80. They took 20, we get 80. Some of them get 40%, we got only, uh, 60%. It depends from, uh, like agency to agency, company to company. But I think having a manager that can really help you and really, you know, focus on you, understanding your talent, understanding that— basically dedicated her or his time for you to really brought you everywhere, do the casting here and there. And then I think that is what helps me a lot back then. Of course, now if you, if you ask me now as an entrepreneur, like, what is my strategy in my social media, I do, um, very active on LinkedIn because, you know, I think as an entrepreneur and a businesswoman and all professional, LinkedIn is the best, right? However, of course, when it's coming to your life as well, I think Instagram is also helpful. Facebook also okay, because I think— however, I think LinkedIn is the best for entrepreneur. Whatever you do, you want it to be seen and it's free and all, you need to tell them in LinkedIn, I think, right? It's not about show off. Offer that much. LinkedIn is all about you sharing your story that can also help others. So all the learning point is always be on LinkedIn. So people doesn't really like to only see a rah-rah good things and all. But yeah, even if in the good news, like, tell them what is the learning point, what is the hurdle, how you overcome that. So I think the social media nowadays that I use the most is LinkedIn. Of course, second, Instagram and Facebook. But just to add on that, every country has its own, um, like, you know, social media kind of preferences. So I noticed in Singapore, where I live for the last 7 years, for example, LinkedIn is the best. Like, everybody's on LinkedIn and so on, right? Especially as a professional. However, for example, in Indonesia, not so much a LinkedIn user compared to Instagram. So even everybody who sells something as an entrepreneur, they post it on Instagram, everything, you name it. So again, of course TikTok is also there, but yeah, so it's, it's amazing to see like every country has a different and their own preferences. Like in Thailand, where I also have a house now in Phuket, they really love Facebook. They love Facebook for everything. They love to chat on Messenger. Instead of WhatsApp. I'm a WhatsApp user, but then when I like also live in Thailand and Phuket, I noticed, okay, so in this country Messenger and Facebook is the way to connect and so on. So yeah, either way, I guess for social media, just look at, you know, where you are, it's very important. So then you know which platform to use, I think.

Donna Milly, that's great. Donna will share, I'm sure, at the end of the show, her handle so you can connect with her on those various different platforms. As you say, you've got to be quite sophisticated and really audience-specific when it comes to the social media content that you're producing. Tell us about the move into EGN, the Global Network for Executives, Donna. A little bit about the network, but also more about building that as a brand, because, you know, this show is about how you'd start and build a brand. How are you building that business up?

So basically I involve like more focus at AGN since 2018 when I moved to Singapore. Back then I am still also a DJ. I won 8 times, sorry, a female global DJ championship in India and so on. However, in Singapore it's a different story. You know how hard people working over there. They're really, really kind of like a robot, I would say, but in a good way, you know, like really fast and all, you know it. But then, yeah. I'm focusing on EGN more. So how can we build the brand? So EGN stands for Executive Global Network. We are the second largest peer network in the world. We do knowledge sharing for senior executives. We provide a safe space for senior executives, let's say CEO and all C-suite level, to have a safe space for them to talk with their peers in the same environment, discussing about their challenges and get help from each other because leaders most of them are lonely at the top. When you reach a certain point, you might not be able to discuss certain things with your colleagues, for example, because of confidentiality or hierarchy and so on and so forth. So that's what we have at EGN to provide them a safe space for them to really discuss their challenges, helping each other and grow together eventually. So how I build the brand. So for me, again, authenticity is number one. It's very, very important nowadays with the help of LinkedIn. Make it very, very easy to be seen. And again, it's a low cost, right? Like low budget. What I do in, in terms of building my brand and EGN brand is always to post something that happening at EGN, basically. So I post like all the peer group meetings or all the events that happening. But again, most importantly, it's not only about posting what happening, but what is the learning lesson that I took from that event, basically. And that's how you build your brand, because then people will see, oh, what is it? Oh, what is Dona stands for? Oh, Dona is representing EGN, for example. Oh, what is it? What do they do? So when they see my post, they understand, huh, there's a lot of, you know, like great leaders over there. They're discussing about the topic that is, you know, really trending, and also the topic that can help me, for example. People can relate to that. So that's how I think it's very important to build the brand effectively through all these social media, especially through LinkedIn. So I can really recommend for those who wanted to build the brand, the easiest one, especially for entrepreneur and so on, right? I think LinkedIn is your go-to for, for the beginning. Well, it's not only for the beginning, actually. Yeah, it lasts forever, I guess. Hopefully LinkedIn will stay there. But yeah, I think LinkedIn is the best for you to build your brand, posting something that really, really can relate to people. It is authentic. Be yourself. Don't make something that, you know, only a rah-rah or only big things. People want to know you. People want to know what is the challenges and people want to know how you get up from that, those challenges. And those stories are really, really powerful.

Yeah, you certainly have done that. And Donna Amelia is just— is Donna Amelia on LinkedIn. She has 20,000 followers and wonderfully, we have some 80 80 mutual acquaintances, you and I, on LinkedIn.

Wow, yes.

So we're almost related, Donna.

I know, right? And see, yeah, and that's the beauty of this social network nowadays, correct? Yeah. So I mean, at EGN, we do, I mean, it stands for Executive Global Network. So we do have a network of almost 1,000 senior executives in Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia. But look at how easy it is through LinkedIn, right, to build up your brand, to getting to know each other. And then through all those, for me, I have now over 20,000 followers on LinkedIn. So if I wanted to post something, it, uh, you know, like the possibility of that those 20,000 people seen it is huge. So you need to just build your brand, post something that is useful for everyone, and then build up your community, your connection, your followers on LinkedIn. And then yeah, post something and that's gonna help your brand.

Yeah. And I think maybe going all the way back to those early days when your grandma said, you've always got your kindness, you've always got your smile to share. You're still doing that actually, aren't you? Just now in a different medium, right? Not at school, but in the global platform, right?

So super. Yes. Yes. Thank you for reminding me about that. Actually. Yes. That's, that's true. I just noticed now, you know, those values when you were a child and great value. You can bring it throughout your life in the different platform, but the essence is the same. You, you keep giving and sharing and serving, give kindness, give love, give smile, give happiness, because regardless your financial situation, you can always give your kindness because nobody can take that away from you, right? So you can always give kindness and smile and so on.

And generosity is free, but it's priceless, isn't it, Donna, in that way?

Yes. Completely agree. And I love this kind of, you know, generosity, kindness, especially as a leader. I mean, if you as a boss can just touch the hand or just say with the smile, thank you, you've done a great job from your heart, meaning, I mean, it means a lot to the person that, you know, get that complimentary and it costs nothing.

Yeah.

But as you said, priceless.

Well, and as we know, for most people, it's the recognition and the support that people work for and gravitate towards rather than the money and the self-serving. And as you're sharing on LinkedIn, what you've learned from this journey, incredible journey that you've had, Donna Amelia. Now, you've been building up your brand, you are on podcasts and you've got Bical, my good friends in Singapore, the agency there helping you to find podcasts. Is the impact and the role of podcast guesting for you on building your brand?

I think this is also very impactful in the sense that, you know, you reach many more people. Again, back then when I was starting my career in the showbiz, right, in the '80s or '90s or the 2000s and all, it's all TV to reach global, I mean, more people and so on, right? Now, yes, you can do LinkedIn and all, but podcasts. So for example, your audience is in the US or in Europe or in Asia or whatever it is. And then your voice will be heard in those countries. And probably, you know, like for example, this kind of peer network like EGN is very new in Indonesia. Actually, we are the first one who came to Indonesia, you see. And if I talk about this and the audience is Indonesia, for example, they will like know something new. So I think podcast is super powerful to really spread the news, the good news, especially the good one and the authentic one. Because like probably in the mainstream media, because I'm coming from that world, as well. Some of them can even, you know, like being edited and, you know, but then I think this kind of podcast is very good because it's spreading positivity, spreading knowledge, limitless worldwide. So I love this podcast experience.

Donna, me too. I'm glad and really delighted that it connects people like you and me who otherwise wouldn't get a chance to meet. And we all have our, if you like, micro audiences, whereas RCTN, of course, in Indonesia has the global but also very commercial commercial focus, we can have a human focus, can't we really, which is just so different. The commercial focus is different. Yes. Donna, you've managed to go from, I'm going to call them humble beginnings, but it sounds as though also very rich beginnings in terms of love and support from your parents and your grandma as well, who taught you some great values, but also gave you the concept of sunshine and a smile. Is going to go a long way. If there's something that you've done that hasn't worked quite as well, a mistake, maybe in the marketing, without trying to embarrass you in any way, but just, I like to ask my guests if there's something that they've learned, well, you've learned lots, but something you tried that didn't work that we can, most of us try and avoid to do.

Right. So of course I have a lot. Failure is part of my life also. So I give you an example. For example, I always dream to be able to go overseas, build up my brand as an actress, singer, TV presenter, and all. And I had a chance. So in 2015, I moved to Vietnam, to Ho Chi Minh City. So I thought my career will also great over there, like, because in Indonesia I'm well-established actress, TV presenter. As mentioned, I won 8-time Panasonic Global Awards, my program, and so on. So I thought moving overseas, I choose Vietnam Vietnam. And then I thought that, oh, I can continue my career over there as a TV presenter and an actress. Fail 100% because I cannot speak the language. So what I do instead, okay, if I cannot be the TV presenter over there, I cannot acting over there, so what is left? Okay, I can sing. So I still continue singing, and then I pick up another skill to becoming a DJ. So I made a collaboration back then with Miss Universe Vietnam when She can DJ, I sing. So we made like a single together. And then my current husband, back then still my boyfriend, told me like, why don't you also do DJing? So you can sing and DJ. So then, you know, I pick up a new skill. So then I becoming a DJ as well. And then back then also, I start to be introduced to EGN and seeing all these kind, humble leaders, yet they love to learn. They love to, you know, cherish moment from each other, really helping each other. Out. So I'm like, wow, this organization, this community is amazing. I love it because I love serving people. I love people who still very humble and also still wanted to help others and all. So back then also, I already, you know, fall in love with this organization. However, from the background of being an actress, always in the glamorous life and, and, you know, TV to TV, I have no idea about how to use PowerPoint, Word, PPTs and all. So I have no idea about that. Yeah, in the corporate world, you know, it is seriously, I have no idea, Excel and so on, right? But then again, instead of only like whining down, oh no, I cannot. So I'm honest, I'm being honest to my colleague. I said, hey, I have no idea about all this, but I'm willing to learn because this is not my strength. I'm coming from a completely different world. And then what happened is that I leverage on my strength. Oh, my strength is with people. I love making people happy. I know how to talk to people. I know like how to make people happy and also to cherish them, to appreciate them and creating great events because that's my background from TV, right? So I'm glad that EGN is all about, you know, making like peer meetings for all the senior executives. And then I'm creating all those events like I need to do 150 meetings and events in one year until now, and that's my background. I mean, yeah, so instead of focusing on things that you, you know, not your strength, I think it's always good to focus on your strength. Yeah, at the same time, of course, you also still need to learn your other skills and also get better on it. But yeah, don't focus on the things that you don't know most, just focus on your strength.

So interesting, Donna. So I asked you about a mistake you've made, and I think it's probably a hallmark of how you operate that you talked about the challenge of moving to a new market and the mistake of not speaking the language of the place. And you immediately turned that into the solutions that you found for that problem. So perhaps that's a hallmark of your positivity and your resilience. Well, I'm sure it is of just how you've done that. So that's wonderful. Now, having moved to China where I tried to build a communications PR firm in a country I didn't speak the language, I've also experienced what it's like to start a business in another country where you don't speak the language. So mine's another story for another day. We're talking about you today. So love to hear how you managed to transition from one to another. So Donna, if there's a number one tip, that you would give an aspiring or an unnoticed entrepreneur, what would it be?

I think don't be afraid of failure. That is very, very important. And embrace failure as your friend. It is painful, but it is necessary to embrace it. So if people ask you, if you need to go back in time, would you like to change? Nope. Because, you know, whatever happened in your life is the one who brought you today. Basically, so don't be scared of the failures. Another thing that I might add on that is start small. It's very, very important if you start something new, if you are transitioning or whatever it is, right? Just start small and then learn and hone your skill and your ability and understanding your market and all. Once you know all the knowledge and make it bigger is another thing, and maybe it's becoming easier compared to you bet in one basket with all you have and all. And then if you face failure, it's gonna be really, really hard, right? Because failure, it's gonna be, uh, you know, you're always gonna face it anyway. But if you start small and then you understand the business, understand the market, it will be easier for you to grow later on.

Great, Donna. So Start small so that when you fail, it's not fatal, so that when you reconstitute yourself, you're able to build back more quickly and learn from those small failures to build, as you've done, huge success. Donna Amelia, if you want to find out what you read or listen to, what would that be?

I love these new books. I mean, it's not new, but I love this book that is very practical. I love something practical. So I can recommend Atomic Habits from James Clear, very, very easy because as entrepreneur, as a human, you know, like building the habit that can make you a better person is very, very important. And you can implement this in any situation in your life, including how to grow your business and all. It's all starting with building something new habit that is good, that can make it bigger basically. So this Atomic Habits is very, very good as a book. I also love to hear, of course, all these Audible books. I love listening to books. And then, yeah, I think maybe everybody already use this, but I think Blinkist also help because, you know, you get some summary of like books. And I love that as well because sometimes you already read the books probably long, long time ago, but then you forget and so on, right? But then when you get this short summary for 10 minutes, 5 minutes, 15 minutes, you kind of reminding yourself about this. So I love listening to audiobook or Blinkist when I run because I love to run daily for 2 kilos or 5 kilos doesn't matter. So you get reminded of all this great wisdom from all the books.

Yeah. Yeah, there's Blinkist, right? It's a great books summary platform. Donna Amelia, thank you for that. And as always, I ask you for just one thing, but actually you've got many, many more. So that's, you're abundant in your giving, as we can see from the whole of your life and your career. Donna Amelia, if people want to find you, where can they do that?

Sure, I'm very active on LinkedIn. You can find my LinkedIn is Dona Amelia, it's D-O-N-A space A-M-E-L-I-A. And if you want to connect with me on Instagram and Facebook is @missdonaamelia, so M-I-S-S-D-O-N-A-A-M-E-L-I-A, both for Instagram and also for Facebook. So you can find me there, but I think LinkedIn is the best for all the entrepreneurs to connect with Great.

And just to be clear, that's Donna with one N, by the way. D-O-N-A. Correct. Yes.

So it's D-O-N-A.

Yes. Yeah. So we pronounce it Donna, but actually sort of a donor, I suppose. And you had an acronym for that, didn't you? So just to help people, you've got an acronym for your name. Donna, what is it?

Yes. Yes. This, the acronym is the TESTIFY OF MY LIFE. Actually, DONA stands for Dreams, Opportunity, Never Give Up, and Action. So I start with having dreams to make my parents happy, to travel the world. When even when I have nothing, I already have dreams. And when you have the dreams, you cannot just have a dream without doing anything. So it's coming to the next word, which is opportunity. When you have a dream, you need to work hard to find the opportunity to reach that dream. And along the way, it's not going to be easy. So N stands for never give up. To reach your dream, to find the opportunity, don't give up. And once you understand and you get the opportunity to reach your dreams, the next word, action. The action needs to be all out, needs to be 200%. In my case, 200%, meaning you need to do another, um, you know, like principle of my life stands for 4 P's. The first P is to pray to God. The second P is to prepare from A to Z. And then the next P is to basically practice, practice, practice, practice. And then the next P is to perform the best. And then the E is to evaluate. The evaluate needs to come from the feeling of grateful and also accept. Because you did your best, you need to accept because God is the one who decides, right? Ultimately. But when you come from this acceptance and grateful, you will be happy to identify what went well, what I need to eliminate, what I need to keep. And yeah, the action will be the best and you will have the best of a result if you can just follow those principles. I think that's happened to me.

Well, Donna, I'm glad that we've taken the action of getting you on the show and, you know, we've had 35 minutes of complete joy. So thank you so much for bringing your smile and your wisdom and your enthusiasm to me and the Unnoticed Entrepreneur. Thank you today.

Thank you so much, Jim. You are wonderful. I'm very glad to be here. Thank you.

Thank you. So we've been listening to Donna Amelia, who's come from Indonesia, and now she's living the life really in Southeast Asia, but also around the world, sharing that, I think, key message that being of service and bringing joy to others is sustaining and is really a wonderful life mission. So we've been lucky to have her on the show today. If you've enjoyed this message, please do share it with a fellow unnoticed entrepreneur, because We don't want anyone to go unnoticed and review the show. And until we meet again, I just encourage you to keep on communicating.