The AI Secret to Podcast Growth Hacking

Welcome to this episode of the Unnoticed Entrepreneur with me, Jim James, here in sunny Wiltshire. And if you have thought about being a podcast guest but have discounted it because you think really it's just taking lots of time but you're not going to get any leads from it and that it's really just a chatterbox, but it's not really a sales inbox, then my guest today has got some great news for you because they've got a platform called Podcast Hawk that uses AI to get you to the right shows and starts to help you get accountability for the time you spend chatting to get to your sales dashboard and funnels. We're talking to Stuart Townsend, who's the co founder of Podcast Hawk. Stuart, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Jim. Great intro and pleasure to be on as well and to be live as well. Even better. Feels like we're on tv.

Yes. And for those people that are listening, we're experimenting now in the Unnoticed Entrepreneur Facebook group with going live with these shows because I really want to try and share the mic with you as well as my guests when I'm recording. So we've experimented with Facebook Live today. So, Stuart, podcast guesting, why is it worthwhile? Because everyone talks about being a podcast host and I think that stops a lot of people. Is being a podcast guest worthwhile? A. Why?

How long have we got?

Most definitely, we've got about 20 to 25 minutes. Always.

It's one of those of. A lot of people overlook podcasts, guesting or podcasts in general. So if we start there, you know, podcast is a medium. We saw massive growth a couple of years ago and that was just artificial. Now we're seeing true growth. But the, the reason to be a guest is one, you can use it for training if you want to be a host. So see if you like it before you invest all that time to actually sell. You know, you're on the other side, Jim. This takes a lot of time, not just recording shows, but finding guests, doing the admin, promoting it, build your audience, etc. When you're a guest and, and like me, I'm in sunny Lancashire. I've sort of got my feet up and I'm chilled out. Do I really want to do all that? No, because I'm quite lazy at heart. But what I want to do is promote the business that I'm doing or my book, or my mastermind or whatever it may be. I've got a sales motion and all I need to do is spend 25 minutes having a chat about the things that I'm passionate about, and it gets out to a wider audience, but also a big piece for me is not just the audience listening, but. But like we are today, those networks, the web traffic, the social network, the SEO data, the backlinks, all those sort of components never really gets talked about. And that's the key factor, is that sales opportunity through a podcast is so untapped, it's just ridiculous. I'll stop there. I'll stop there.

Well, that's great. I think that, Stuart, you've got to answer the question about authority, because there's this assumption that you have to be the host to be the authority, and it's the authority that drives the business for the guest. What's your response to that?

No, so I always put it into context of, you know, the host is maybe an authoritarian in marketing or SEO or sales and such, but to a certain extent, they're always learning and they want to share that learning with the audience. So, you know, bringing those guests on from a wide, varied background and multicultural means that actually they become more authoritarian in what they're doing. But also bringing that knowledge on base to that, to their customer, to their audience is. Is what they're there for. I attune it to working in corporate. You were supposed to be the expert. So I worked at Sun Microsystems for 12 or 14 years. I don't know how long. It was awesome. I was supposed to be an authority in Solaris and Spark and all this hardware. I knew about 1% more than the audience if I was really lucky, but they thought I knew everything. And it's the same with hosting. The hosting may know a little bit more, but not necessarily so I think it can work the other way. I think, you know, the guests can bring a lot more knowledge and the host just acts as the. The broker in the middle and takes it all on board.

You know, it's a really good point that you are invited to be a guest because you are the expert in a particular subject matter and you're certainly a peer, you know, if not the subject matter expert. And the host's role is to facilitate, like I do, the conversations that we have with experts like you. So we've dealt with that issue of, you know, is it worth it? But the other two challenge, as it is with kind of all social media, is about the metrics. And I've had guests on that have built products like Funnelytics, for example, that track where leads come from. But. But podcasts are remarkably hard because people listen to them on their mobile Phones in the car. Stuart, how can someone attribute podcasts to leads in your review?

So there are similar products to ours out there and we always have this. We've had this discussion from the start that Jim, you have access to your audience. You know who they are, who's listening, who's downloading. The only other people that do is the hosting company or the advertisers that you may share it with. Nobody else does. From an attribute, I can't say the word attributation.

Attribution. Attribution I think is bad signals to it.

It's like it's one of those words that. But from that aspect, we've always gone down the way of. From gathering data and whatever it may be, of have a call to action at the end that has a trackable link. That's the basics. So that goes in the show notes when the episode goes out. But for us, when you're researching a show that you want to go on, it may be you're just starting out and you're going to be a guest and you'll go through the step ladder type approach of going on smaller shows to get on bigger shows. Now those smaller shows, the maven just started, so they may have only had 10 episodes. Their social network and their web traffic could be off the charts. You know, it's, it's literally if you look at, we provide domain authority and page backlink data on some. On a high proportion of the podcasts, that for me is a metric. Because what I want to know is, can I get traffic back to what I'm pretty sure proposing, whether it's an ebook, a lead magnet, whatever it is, I can then attribute that back and go, actually that came from that podcast because I've put a trackable link in there. And as a guest, that is the only thing you can do because that's the only way of tracking. Did it actually work? And we tell everybody that uses our product, just do that. If you do anything, don't forget. One thing not to forget is putting that link and getting the show notes.

And I think, Stuart, you've raised a really good point about being a guest that you really need to go into the interview with a gift of some kind. A call to action. That could be a coupon code, could be a link to a download or to a quiz. Stuart, you've mentioned that you've got an app. And I found Podcast Hawk and I was looking for platforms that help listeners and guests match up. Tell us about Podcast Hawk. And for those people that are listening Stuart's going to explain it. And those people that want to see this on YouTube, you'll be able to see the screen share. But if you just explain about Podcast Hawk for us.

Yeah, so It's a simple B2C B2B SaaS app. What it enables you to do is actually search through all the podcasts that are available. So I can throw some vanity numbers out there. So it's 4.2 to 4.3 million podcasts. They are not active. For a start, there's like 800,000 to 900,000 active podcasts. On average, there's about 300,000 shows released every three months or so. So there's a high volume. What we do is enable you to filter out those shows, whether they're by category, by keyword, active shows. So they've only shown last couple of months what language they're in, are the interview style, did they have a website, do they have a YouTube account, do they have a social account? All these sort of key elements. So you can take funnel and go, right, Okay, I want to be on marketing podcasts. Great. There's about a billion of them. So let's narrow that down to the ones that are really relevant. And then what we do, we give you access to the podcast host, social identity, email address, that sort of thing. But to take the real pain away, we've built in our own campaign tool. So it's a four email drip campaign tool connected to your email account. You put in your emails into there, you want to send out or save them as templates, and then we send them out in a randomized, humanistic fashion to the podcast host and we insert then the podcast host name, the show, etc. And it does all that pain point. And this came from the pain that me and my co founder went through trying to get on podcasts a couple of years ago, because it was just painful around that sort of thing.

Stuart, it sounds brilliant because we've got Listen Notes, for example, which is a huge directory, but has none of the functionality. You have to filter and then download and put it into your CRM and then you don't get any of that. So Podcast Hawk, if you're helping me to match and then to send, how is it managing the replies then? Because one of the issues can be if it goes out from Podcast Hawk, but then comes back into my email, I've lost the email that went out to Podcast Talk. And for those of us using VAs, you end up with not following up. So just tell us about the workflow. There because it's key, because it's a logistics game, actually.

No, definitely. So, so we don't have to use our own email domain server. We, we get you to connect your email account to the platform so you authenticate and then we send out, we attach a little tracking dot to the emails that go out and then we report back on. So we basically listen them for replies. We're not listening for anything else. It's like, okay, we've had a back from Jim. Do not send me more emails to Jim. He replied on email one and Bob may have replied on email three, so stop the campaign. So we're doing that over 14 days and you can send all four emails or you can send one and then because of that, we then provide you tracking of the open, some links, the open rate and receivership and such, some basic reporting elements in, in this particular version of the platform.

And Stuart, what about the pitches themselves? Are you using any AI or helping people to write those pitch emails? Because that can, it's a double edged sword because if as a host I get frankly some rather ridiculous emails because they don't recognize what the show's about, they send things that are completely irrelevant, that's wasting everybody's time. Sometimes you get them really nicely curated. They've plainly taken the time to look at the show, they've got a call to action, they've got a great story they want to share with my audience. How can Podcast Hawk help with the creation of that pitch?

So we, we provide templates. So within the platform we provide, I think it's 30 templates. Some are funny, some are personal, some are business. And they've already got the, what we call the short codes in there, so the podcast host name and such. And also we provide a lot of resources around that side in terms of how to write an email. So there's a whole ebook with those templates in and a lot of content around that as well that you get from that side. Plus you can save your own templates. So we provide those templates because we know they've landed really well because we've got the data. But we also provide that ability of you can cut and paste your own templates in there, email templates and save them and repurpose them and retest it against that. But we do say to guests, you know, and again, you know, you're in this space as well, Jim, about the educational side is you've got to have a really good story, but in that email, give the host everything they need. So build, don't do a one pager. Build a media kit. If you can do a short video, that's a generic one. But just saying, what is the value of you going on a podcast? So it's like, Hamish, do it. Townsend, I've been on 50 podcasts before. I know about marketing, I know about sales, your audience, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't have to be custom for each podcast, but something so they can see you're good in front of an audience, you've got the right setup. You're not just going to be sat in some back room somewhere with some, you know, lack of connectivity. And we help do a lot of that activity with the clients.

That's great too. That's why I built the podcast guest blueprint course, which I just started to unwrap or unveil this month, because I find so many guests are not prepared with their lighting, the camera, their mics, or a story or a call to action. So it sounds as though you're really helping, especially with that outreach and also giving people some of the templates which will help them be, you know, a little more fluid as well in, in their writing. That's fantastic. In, in terms of then the sort of pricing, Stuart, because we've got Matchmaker, for example, we've got Pad Verb. It's getting to be quite a crowded space, isn't it? And then of course, some people have got agencies that are charging, you know, quite a lot of money to get people onto court, onto shows. Do you want to just give us an idea of the pricing strategy you've got for podcast talk?

Yeah. So It's a simple SaaS pricing model. So software as a service, so it's a 30 day contract, it starts at $59 and goes up to $129. And the differences in that are the number of podcast host contact details you can access. And I'll just explain that a little bit clearly, because you can access a platform and pay monthly and do as many searches as you like and save those searches and do all the stuff that you want to do as soon as you hit go and say, I'd like to either download that, that data or build a campaign to email them. It uses up some of your credits and those credits roll over. So if you're on a 30 day contract and you've been with us for 12 months, you've never used anything to roll over and then you could just smash it. And on the $59 account, you don't get the campaign functionality that starts in the middle at $89. But that's it, really. Everything, everything else is there. It's all in the platform. There's no real differences apart from the number of shows that you can reach out to and get access to their details.

And Stuart, that's a really nice way to grow as you go. Right. And that you're using less at the beginning because you're reaching out to less shows. And I really also recommend that people don't try and do too many shows at the beginning because people get quite exhausted is one. But also it's a skill to be a good guest. And it's a bit like going running or something. You don't try and do marathons first. You know, build up with some, some 5k races first. Stuart, you've been building Podcast Hawk now with a partner who I believe is in, in Mexico. Of course, they got the, they got the worst side of the deal because you're in Lancashire, right? So I bet they, they're lobbying to come back with the marketing of podcast Talk. I. I found you through a Google search, but it wasn't top of top of ranks. How are you building awareness? Because, you know, this show is about getting noticed and I love what you guys are building, so I wanted you to come on the show. But I also like to help my fellow unnoticed entrepreneurs to get insights on how to overcome being overlooked.

I always love this question. It's not been asked a lot of times, and I think you know the answer already. It's a real simple one. I go on podcasts. Why would I not eat my own dog food to promote a business about podcast guesting to drive sales. So we go through campaigns and such. So Ray goes on shows I do. You know, two of our advisors are Pat Flynn and Jordan Harbinger, so big podcasters from that side. And yeah, so I could say that we do loads of Facebook ads and LinkedIn ads and we don't do anything, any of that at all. We've got lots of blog posts and content stuff, but the whole marketing campaign from the start has always been go on podcasts and talk about the benefit of being a podcast guest from that side. So that, that is our key marketing strategy.

Oh, Stuart. So that's a bit of a gift question. Wasn't it really there that I gave you?

To be fair, Jim, I've not been asked that a lot of times because I've been on a lot of marketing podcasts and sort of generic sales podcasts and things like that about the product or about me. I think I may have been Asked it once, but. But it's such a simple answer because if I didn't do that, I won't believe in the product.

Yeah, good. Well, you know, I like to ask that question because ultimately this show is about how fellow entrepreneurs get noticed, right? It's. It's as much about how you do and what you're doing, Stuart, as. As what you're doing. Because as an entrepreneur in the EO Network, which I started with Rich Robinson in Beijing back in 2007, the peer group sharing was really the most powerful way to learn because no one is selling, we're all just telling what we do. And that's why it's a go to question for me for every guest. And hopefully the listeners will see that that's what they can do with their own business. So that you're eating your own, as you say, is fantastic. But it's also a key of my mission for this podcast. But another part, Stuart, as you know, is I also ask for mistakes. Anything that you've done from a marketing point of view, obviously you've stayed in Lancashire, your partner's in Mexico, so they made that mistake. But what would you say would be a mistake you've made from a marketing point of view?

I think it's marketing stroke functionality or technicality, if that makes sense. We did originally promote the product as being a beta product and got a good audience around that. What we didn't maximize on and, and we shifted away from marketing and we went, right, okay, let's go and focus on building that functionality that our beta testers have said did really like in there. And we took, we took our foot off the pedal, off the gas from that side and stopped promoting and marketing the product. And that meant that we actually lost traction in the market and other competitors came along is one thing. But also we didn't become what we wanted to be. Was like that domain authority about podcast guesting on that side. That, that was one definite mistake. That was like, right, okay, we can't go back in time. We've done it now, so let's accelerate from that side of things. And I think the other is spending too much time on blog post SEO type content from that side and trying to not focus that as being the sort of part of the core proposition, but just building it for the sake of it, if that makes sense. So we've got about 200 blog posts about being a podcast guest and it's like, great, we've got all these blog posts, but. But there's no fact there's no anchor back to it. It's just a lot of blog content. Whereas actually going on podcasts and then anchoring that back to a blog post and going actually go and read this blog post because it's about this particular point, like we've talked today about, you know, your course and that sort of thing. There should be something relevant. So as much as I hate to admit it, you know, we've not done what we, we try and tell people to do correctly. Now we do do that, which is around. Okay, let's, if we're going to show, let's have a it going back to a blog post or a landing page or something that's more relevant than let's just randomly create all this content that's just out there and nobody reads it.

Yeah, that's one of the things too. At the end you'll give us some kind of a, a call to action for the listeners to maybe get a trial of some kind. I think right at the end you'll give our listeners a benefit for sticking around, which would be wonderful. The flip side of that question then, Stuart, is what's the number one tip? And I am going to limit you. You can't say go on podcast because you've had that as your number one strategy. So I'm sorry, I'm going to close you off from that one. Otherwise people will go, hang on. Yeah, it's on the loop. So what would be, you say a number one tip as an entrepreneur to get noticed or, or otherwise if it's, if it's bringing you back to podcast too much?

No, no, I think, you know, there is life outside of podcasts most definitely. So for me, I think what I've done over time and start to do a lot more again is being part of communities. Networks that make as much as a deplore slack because slack for slack reason. I mean now paid communities and they're providing more value from a mentoring. So like after this I've got a mastermind group, I've got a mentor in there. But what that's, that means also is leads and introductions means I get noticed. So now in those groups I will encrypt to podcasts. I'm the go to guy about either podcasting or, or my background isn't about building indirect sales team and channel partners and resellers and such or around that aspect people like, oh, I've got this business, I want to do this. So not, not just going in groups, got thousands of people and you just lost there. I think to get noticed and provide value back is to go into those smaller paid communities or groups of that sort of, that hold you accountable. And then you can then start to drive what your knowledge base and awareness is. And that, you know, generally will lead to you providing information on the product that you sell or the services that you do. That. That would be to a Townsend.

That's fantastic. So in terms of my final sort of question for you, do you have a podcast or book? Should I. Maybe I should limit you to books only that you could share.

I'm going to stick with a podcast. I should say Pat Flynn. Sorry, Pat. I do. I will say Pat Flynn because it's one of our advisors. But the Tropical MBA is the first podcast I started to listen to when I joined Sun. I used to live down. I used to work down south and live in the north. And podcasting was just getting started. And the Tropical MBA came out and I was like, right, okay, I just want to invent tiki bars and be an entrepreneur. And it gave me that motivation to try and get out of corporate at some stage. And also they run a private mastermind group. So it means that we all get together in Thailand or Mexico or London and come together and share knowledge, which is great. And it all stems back from that, that podcast, which is just, you know, awesome.

Fantastic. Tropical mba. Thank you for sharing that. And if people want to find out more about you, Stuart, and also to get maybe a taster for podcast talk, what can you. What can you share as a call to action?

Yeah. So Stuart S T E W A R T. We'll include it in the show notes. Stuart podcasthawk.com you'll find me on Twitter Stuart Townsend. Reach out to me through any of those mediums. You can find me on LinkedIn. But that's just. I'll probably think you try to sell me double glazing or something. But yeah. And come and find me there is the best way. And ask anything you like about podcast guesting, podcasting as a whole. I can give you data points and such. Totally open book. Don't, don't be afraid not to ask. You can always say no. That's what my dad said.

Okay. And also they can go to podcasthawk.com do you have a. Can we maybe offer people a coupon of some kind? Stuart for a trial what I can.

Do@Podcast.Com go and sign up for a trial again. Just email me. You'll see the info address or. Stuart podcast.com normally 7 days and it can extend out to 14 days and give viewers an extra credit. We don't use coupons as such just because they just break and things go wrong and it causes more pain. So if they just say, heard it on, on your notice, entrepreneur, great. I can just go and tag them and put it in there. Dead simple. It's just nice and manual and really quick.

Stuart, thank you so much for joining me today on the show.

It's been perfect. Thanks, Jim. Great conversation. Great. And. And we didn't talk podcasting too much. Maybe about 20, 30 times we got it dropped in there.

Yeah. We didn't mention other mediums, but I wanted to get you on the show because I'm really excited about what you're doing because I think a big part of my passion is to help entrepreneurs and authors and subject matter experts to get onto podcasts in an affordable way and that they're prepared with their kit but also with the call to action. So what you're doing is really helping to solve a big part of that problem for them. So I was really excited that you had agreed to come on the show. So thank you, Stuart.

Perfect. And I think what you're doing with the course as well is just a pure value because it just takes people through that aspect and takes away that pain. Point of do we do this? Don't worry, they'll go on being professional straight out the gate, which is awesome.

Which is wonderful. So Stuart Townsend joining me today from sunny Lancashire, and I'm sure his partner in Mexico will be brewing the day that he left the north of England. And I'm here in the south of England of Wiltshire. So you've been listening to the Unnoticed Entrepreneur podcast with Stuart Townsend is co founder of a company called Podcast Hawk, and me, Jim James. If you've enjoyed this episode, do please review it or rate it on your player and share it with a fellow unnoticed entrepreneur. Because really, we don't want anyone to go unnoticed until we meet again. Just encourage you to keep on communicating.