20VC: What It Takes To Found and Scale A Global Venture Firm Like Lightspeed, 3 Ways Firms Do Not Succeed in Generational Transition & What Makes The Truly Special Board Members Like Jim Goetz with Barry Eggers, Founding Partner @ Lightspeed Venture Partn

This is the 20 minute VC with me, Harry Stebbings and it'd be wonderful to see you on Instagram stebbings1996 with two Bs where you can see all things behind the scenes here and suggest both questions and guests for future episodes. But to the episode today and I feel very honored to have had the chance to interview so many incredible individuals. But today really was a special one for me, someone I personally hugely look up to and admire. A pioneer in the world of venture capital and the Valley. And so I'm thrilled to welcome Barry Eggers, founding partner at Lightspeed, one of the world's leading venture funds with a portfolio that includes check the likes of Snapchat, Mulesoft, Affirm, Stitch Fix, AppDynamics, Nutanix and many more incredible companies. As for Barry himself, he's led investments in Snapchat Metasolve Software which was acquired post IPO by Oracle Callista Technologies which was acquired by Microsoft Arbor Networks acquired by DHR Growth Networks acquired by Cisco. Yes, almost more acquisitions than I've done podcast episodes and as a result of his incredible success, Barry's been named to Forbes Midas list numerous times. And prior to vc, Barry held executive roles at Cisco Systems where he established many of of the company's largest distribution channels across OEMs, service providers, distributors and VARs. He also developed Cisco's initial M and A process and directed the first wave of acquisitions and integrations to the company. And what can I say, a huge thank you to Adam Goldberg, Nicole Quinn, Alex Taussig and Jeremy Liu for the questions. I really do so appreciate that. But before we welcome the man himself, thanks to my friends at WePay. Let me introduce you to a cool player in the space. We love WebConnects, the maker of powerful software for event management and fundraising. Their products go under the names Reg, Fox Tickets, Spice, Giving Fuel and Red Podium, reaching more than a million people a month and processing more than a billion dollars for their customers. WebConnect's products are nearly white label solutions so thousands of organizations can customize them to be like their own in house solution. They're all about flexibility and customization and you can learn more@webconnects.com and to learn how you can grow your revenue with integrated payments just like WebConnects did, visit wepay.com Harry and Wepay's got this fantastic study about how another platform, Teamsnap, is working with WePay to make payments, its number one revenue stream more than its subscription. Again, that's wepay.com Harry and the reality is though, that hiring developers is really really hard. It's much harder if you're looking only in a 25 mile radius of your office. And that's where Terminal comes in. Terminal is your dedicated partner in rapidly standing up world class remote technical teams. How do they deliver both speed and quality? Well, Terminal does this by focusing on everything necessary to successfully source, set up and support these teams. From physical elements like beautiful workspaces and equipment to ongoing resources like hr, payroll, legal, professional learning and development. Don't take my word for this. Take the word of Eventbrite, former 20VC, guest HIMS and Dialpad, all customers and lovers of Terminal. You can find out more today at Terminal IO. And once we have that team as we know, it really doesn't end there. As a founder or operator, your most important job is people operations, whether it be hiring execs, developing managers, retaining that top talent and building a high performing culture. And that's why you need Lattice, the number one people management solution for growing companies. And Lattice helps companies like Asana, Reddit and Cruise build a strong company culture. With Lattice, it's Easy to launch 360 reviews, share ongoing feedback, facilitate one on ones, set up goal tracking and even run employee engagement surveys. And Lattice is the only solution that combines performance management and employee engagement so operators can really make sure top performers are happy. And Lattice is giving away three months of Lattice free to 20 VC listeners. Just go to lattice.com 20VC that's L A T T I C E.com 20VC. That really is a must. But you've heard quite enough from me. So now I'm hugely honoured to welcome Barry Eggers found partner at Lightspeed Venture Partners.

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You have now arrived at your destination. Barry, what can I say? I've heard so many things from Jeremy, from Adam, Nicole, Alex. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Thanks for having me.

Not at all. But I'd love to kick off today with a little about you and the founding of Lightspeed 21 years ago for you and that kind of real original vision with Lightspeed and the entrance into the wonderful world of venture.

Well, first of all, I never really thought I would do venture capital. Certainly in college I studied economics and business school. I didn't even take the venture capital class. I just so happened to go to Cisco early on in the 1990s and started doing acquisitions and was recruited by my partner Chris Sheppey, who was a classmate of mine. At Stanford. And he recruited me and I joined the firm and together, us, Robbie and Peter started Lightspeed.

Can I ask, when you started Lightspeed, did you always envision it to be the multi stage, multi geography international firm that it is today, or did that really kind of evolve and scale over time?

Yeah, that sort of evolved over time. You know, you have to go back to the late 90s and when we were doing venture capital late 90s, there was a lot of people doing early stage investing. There was probably 20 or 30 firms that would compete for the best deals in early stage. And then when we went through the 2000 and 2001 crash, a lot of those firms either disbanded or changed their strategy or just decided to retire or went through a generational transition. And so, you know, around 2002 or 3, we sort of looked around and we said, wow, there's not as many people doing this early stage stuff. We had been doing sort of B rounds in the late 90s and we said, well, you know, let's go establish ourselves as preeminent early stage venture investor. And so we'd set out to do that, did a lot of seed and Series A's in the early 2000s and you know, one thing led to another and we thought this was the most important real estate and ventures early stage, let's stake it out. And we were able to do that. Took us 17 years, but we got there.

You did indeed get that. But I'm really intrigued. Taking the more meta perspective, how have you kind of fundamentally seen the landscape evolve and develop over the last 20? Money is.

Well, it's interesting because I sort of look closely at this and try to develop my own thesis. So this is my thesis, not anyone else's or light speeds, but I sort of look at three phases of modern day venture capital. If you start in 1980, sorry, 1980 to 1995, I like to call that the craftsman era of venture capital. And that was where venture investors didn't make a lot of investments. But when they did, they got in very early and they stayed all throughout the company's history, you know, through an ipo. They were very hands on, operational, they worked very closely with entrepreneurs. They probably held three, four, five board seats at a time. But they were craftsmen, they were company builders. Then in 1995, you know, we started to see a lot more money coming into venture funds, got a lot bigger. We started to see the first billion dollar funds over time. And I like to call that phase, the scale up phase. And what that was about is venture investors now had to take more board seats because the funds were bigger. We started to see the advent of people using the press as a way to attract entrepreneurs and writing about venture capital. And that phase is sort of 1995 through 2010. And with 2010, even more money has come into venture. And now we're seeing what I like to call a specialization phase. And so nowadays you have incubators, you have accelerators, you have dirt funds, you have pre seed funds, you have seed funds, you have early stage funds like us, you have expansion stage funds, you have late stage funds, you have pre IPO funds, crossover funds, corporate funds and whatever you want to call soft. So there's a lot of specialization now. And so people are sort of cutting, slicing the pie of value creation based on time. I don't think it's sustainable, but that's sort of, I think the phase that we're in right now.

Can I ask Barry, you've seen multiple booms and busts in the cycles. I'd love to hear how that really affects your investing and operating mindset today.

Yeah, well, people don't like to say this, but you know, macro crises are generally good for venture capital. If you go back and look at what it does is sort of cleanses the industry, if you will. We go through these cycles where a lot of money, money comes into venture and we overpopulate it with capital. Prices go up, returns go down and we need some kind of a shock to the system to decrease the amount of capital coming in to venture. 2008, 2009 is a great example of that. The financial crisis and you go back and money stopped coming into venture, prices came down, it was really hard for companies to raise capital. But then you go back and look at the venture funds that were raised around 2007, 8, 9, those are some of the best vintages in the last two decades.

I do have to also in terms of that you mentioned kind of the excess amount of capital into the ecosystem. Do you think that now we're in a stage where again that impending bust is coming with the likes of the SoftBank, Sequoia's new 7 1/2 billion fund, GC's new billion plus fund. Do you think there is an excess supply and do you think there is that bust coming?

Well, there's probably two things that work certainly that we've expanded the amount of capital in a big way that's come into venture with the advent of people like Softbank and Sequoia and larger funds, even lightspeed funds are getting larger, larger and so we're putting more money into private companies. Having said that, we are sort of shifting some of the money that used to go into IPOs into private investments. And so that's expanding the market for venture. So we've extended the market a bit. I do think though that we've got too much money coming in and so I do think returns are going to suffer a bit for these vintages and that we probably need some kind of a correction to decrease the amount of capital that's coming into venture.

Can I ask when it is the boom times and there is an excess amount of capital, as we said, about its effect on pricing, how do you think about price sensitivity given your many years of experience with lightspeed? Are there any kind of major learnings on price that really stood out to you?

I think a lot of people would say if you're in the right deal, the price doesn't matter too much. What's the difference between 100x and an 80x? And that's generally true. But I think that also if you have a higher price as an early stage investor, let's say the difference between a single digit pre money and a double digit pre money, or in the team or even the 20s, then you're talking about putting less companies into a fund because you want to get your same ownership. And so you got to put more money into each company to get that ownership. And so instead of having 50 plus companies in a fund, you might have 40 or 45. And so that can be okay as long as those five that you cut out aren't the ones that are really driving the fund. And as we know, it's usually a handful or less of companies that really drive the performance of a single fund. And so, so we're having less shots on goal when prices are higher. But ultimately for the great companies, the price doesn't matter as much.

It's interesting you said there about ownership. We have Peter Fenton on the show recently and he said that when it comes to ownership, the thinking that you can get 15 to 20% of some of the most exciting opportunities nowadays is simply not possible anymore. How would you think about that?

Yeah, I think that it depends on some of these projects that require a ton of capital. It's really hard to get 15 or 20% of them over time. You look at the Ubers of the world and some of the guys who are, you know, electric bike companies and scooter companies and anything that requires so much capital is just hard to get into that kind of a position. There's certainly a lot of other companies that maybe are raising 50 to 100 million over their life. And so you can get to that position. But having said that, if you own 10%, 15% in one of those iconic, highly valued companies, that's a great return for your investors.

Absolutely. But I would love to ask Barry. It's very easy to look at a firm like Lightspeed and see the domination you've had over the last few years. I'd love to hear your thoughts though, from your perspective on some of the biggest challenges really in building Lightspeed through that journey.

Yes. I don't like to use the word dominate because I don't think we dominate anything. I think we have a lot of great peers that also have great performance. We've been fortunate to have some nice outcomes in the last two or three years. Nutanix, Mulesoft, Snap App Dynamics, Hitch Fix, Zscaler, etc. But it's been a lot of years in the making. You know, it's hard to build a venture firm. I see a lot of first time firms. I worry that there's too many first time firms because it really is hard. And why is it so hard? Well, first of all, you got to start with new LPs and so we had to go out, we had to get our new LPs. And of course when you do that, you start building the company. You only have a certain amount of fees coming in from one fund. And so you got to sort of build it in stages. As you grow more funds, you get to build more out the infrastructure out, so you add more partners over time. You obviously have to have a finance team over time you can build a services team. So building the firm itself, really a practice in hiring great people and making sure you retain them them on the investment side, that's what we're paid to do, right? We're judged by our performance, by our LPs. And so you've got to have a cohesive strategy. For us, the strategy was around getting in early into these interesting new areas and testing a thesis. We're theme oriented investors and sometimes when you do that, you get in early and you make an investment and you look stupid. Sometimes you get in early, you make an investment, you look really smart. But good news about venture capital is you can only lose your money once, but you can make it, you know, several hundred times over for the right investments.

No, absolutely. But you mentioned the element of kind of gaining those very first LPs. I'd love to hear how you thought about LP composition and how you think about LP composition. Maybe today, when one with Lightspeed's track can maybe be more selective, that's really important.

You know, first of all, when we got our first set of LPs, we really wanted to find people that one, you know, sort of had a steady supply of capital and then two were long term committed to the asset class because we knew that we were going to have ups and downs in this industry. We want LPs that are going to stay with us over time. We sort of look at our LP base. We try not to be overbalanced in any one asset class with an LP basis that is fund of funds, university endowments, corporate endowments, sovereign wealth funds, individuals. We try to be balanced across those because those asset classes actually go in and out of favor and they just, some of them decide that they want to exit venture capital while others are, you know, investing more. So we try to have balance across those. And then finally the most important thing I think we did with our LPs, we really wanted to be transparent with them. We wanted to tell them what we were going to do, we wanted to do it then, we wanted to tell them what we did. And I think over the years they developed a lot of trust that we're going to do what we say we're going to do and when we screw up, we're going to tell them. And when we do good things, we're going to tell them. And hopefully we're putting a lot of distributions in their pockets over time.

For sure, there have been some pretty phenomenal distributions over the last few years. But I would love to ask Barry, I'm always fascinated by inflection points. What do you think have been the major inflection points for light and the trajectory of lightspeed over the last few years? And what core impact have they really had, do you think?

Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, we invest across now both enterprise and consumer. We really started as more of an enterprise focused firm. All four of the founders were investing in enterprise. And so that was sort of how we made our name. And I think with enterprise it is. You're judged by entrepreneurs by your body of work, your platform. And so the first big early stage outcome we had was Riverbed, where we were in the Series A with our friends at Excel. And that returned, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars to our investors. And over time, you know, some of the more recent hits and Nimble Storage and Nutanix And Nielsoft and AppD have sort of added to that platform on the consumer side, though, it's a little different. I think that the way that you build your platform and get the attention of the entrepreneur is more about a notable deal. And we really hadn't had that notable deal until we were fortunate to invest in the early stages of Snap. And that became sort of a nice notable deal for us and has really helped elevate consumer practice over time. I give a lot of credit to Jeremy Liu, who's been really one of the key guys building our consumer practice and team. And now we have folks like Nicole and others on the team, so I'm really happy with the way that that side's developed too. So we've always felt like to build a great firm, we had to be hitting on both cylinders. We had to be hitting on enterprise and consumer, and we feel like we're almost there.

I'm so pleased you said about Snap there, because I was just chatting to your colleague Adam Goldberg, and he told me it was a story I had to ask. So tell me about Snap. Snap, your daughter's involvement and how that really came about.

Yeah, told this story a few times, and my daughter likes to remind me of it. You know, she was a sophomore in high school in 2012. My son was a senior in high school. And I came home in early 2012, and she was sitting around the table with a bunch of her friends. They were all on their cell phones. And I sort of looked at them. I said, what are you guys doing? You know, why aren't you just talking to each other? Why are you all on your cell phones? And she said, well, dad, have you seen this app? It's called Snapchat. Everyone's using it in high school. School. And. And so I asked her a few questions. She demonstrated, you know, some of the pictures that they had been sending, and I asked her how often they used it. She said, well, in the beginning, five or six times a day, and now we all use it 30 times a day. And all these girls were nodding their head, and it seemed like this was this, you know, sort of secret app that all these kids knew about but no adults knew about. So I went back and I told Jeremy Lou about it the next week. And, you know, we took a week to try to find the company. We couldn't find them, and we kept hearing more about, you know, how it was going and how much people were using it. So the next week, I asked Jeremy again if he could find the company, and he was able to hunt Evan down on Facebook, of all things, and get a meeting and we heard the story from them, and they needed money because the storage costs in the cloud were, you know, were increasing due to their success. You know, they had grown really rapidly. They still had less, less than about 100,000 users when we invested, and they'd gone up from 10,000 two months before. Really good engagement. And so we made the Circle investment. What made it special, too, is I'm involved with a High School, St. Francis High School, that has a venture fund. I'm the chairman of the venture fund. And that venture fund goes towards things like teacher bonuses and capital campaigns and also financial aid for families. And we put them into the seed of Snapchat because they were so involved in helping us see the investment and hear about it. So we put them in for 15,000, and that eventually turned into 34 million for that school.

I mean, what a return and what a great cause. I'm sure they're very grateful to you and you're very grateful to your daughter. But I do want to move. We spoke about kind of inflection points and kind of the past, building lightspeed. I do want to touch on some exciting elements of the future we've mentioned. Alex, Nicole, Adam. A common theme of great firms is the element of generational transition. What was your thinking on generational transition? And what do you think is really required to really do it successfully? Successfully, yeah.

And that's a great question. And, you know, you look around and I've been watching these firms look at who was a great firm in the 80s and 90s and 2000s, and now, now the names change a lot. It's almost like the Fortune 500. And so why is that? It's just really, really hard to do a generational transition. And one of the firms I think has done it really well is Sequoia. And so you got to look and sort of understand what makes a good generational transition and what doesn't. But a lot of of people have failed. I think there's three things that where a venture firm can fail. Number one, you got to have great performance. That's an obvious one. Number two is you got to make sure that the young people coming up get the opportunities to grow economically, incenting them and motivating them and making sure that they have the right path to become really strong venture capitalists, and that includes mentoring. And number three, you got to make sure that the older partners don't hang around too long and take too much of the economics, you know, so all three of those are reasons why firms don't get through the Generational transition. We're obviously focused on driving performance. I've also, you know, worked with some of my senior partners and putting together programs so that our younger folks have a nice strong path. People like Alex and Nikki have really strong paths up through the organization. And as one of the older partners now, I'm making sure that the older partners don't hang on too long and that there's a clear path for us to wind down gracefully, continue to be involved in a lot of the day to day stuff, but also make room economically for other people.

Do you find it challenging to wind down? When you have built the institution and you're so proud of what you've built and you still love the space so much, do you think you will find it challenging to wind down?

I don't think so. You know, I think that think about venture capital, it's really a graceful wind down because when you do an early stage investment, you probably are going to work with that company for another 10 years. So I did three investments last year. So falling seven or eight boards now is if you slow down your new investments, then you have a long tail of working with those companies. And so it is a nice graceful way to stay involved and stay fresh with the companies. I also spend time working with Lightspeed on some other initiatives, like some of our inclusion initiatives and some of our crypto initiatives. So, you know, and, and I think that's the right way. I think what happens in some firms if you say you're either in 100% or out, that's when you have the issues.

I'm so pleased you touched on crypto there. I had your wonderful colleague Adam Goldberg on the show recently and we discussed crypto. So how do you crypto investing landscape at present? Let's start with that.

I'm really excited about crypto. A lot of people, you know, sort of look at it and think it's just, it's sort of a joke. But I think if you really understand what crypto is all about, the power of the network and, and how disruptive it can be to venture capital, I mean, a lot of these companies, and I'm talking about the ones that, you know, have credible founders and have credible strategies, and there's a growing number of those, by the way. You know, these companies, companies have a way to get funding from all over the world. They have a way to crowdfund, if you will, the product and their network. There's sort of a fairness doctrine that comes along with these crypto networks. And you know, we found that Some of the best companies, you know, in venture over the last 15 or 20 years have been network effects companies. Well, crypto is a lot about network effects. So I think as a venture firm, you can't just dismiss crypto as bad. I think you have to understand it and embrace it. And we're doing that. We got people like Adam that are, you know, working on a lot of stuff now. And Jeremy's been involved in crypto for a long time with companies like blockchain and et cetera. And now we're doing a lot more with that. We're seeing companies that, you know, look a lot closer to the traditional venture investments that we've been making over the last 25 years. So I think it's an area that we've got to pay a lot of attention to. And as a firm of our stature, we've got to embrace it.

No, I couldn't agree with you more in terms of embracing it. I do have to talk about though, before we move into the quick fire on the element of your board roles, according to my stalking, you've done more than two and a half thousand hours in a board seat. So tell me, how have you really evolved and developed over time as a board member?

Do you think, wow, 2500 hours in a board seat. That's crazy.

That's what I calculated.

How much of my life has been sitting in a board seat. Wow. Well, yeah, you know, and you sit on great boards and you sit on boards that aren't so good. I think over time I've sort of seen my myself as not just a participant on the board or an individual, but someone who also wants to make sure the board is functional. Because there's nothing worse than a dysfunctional board. We've all probably been on them. Functional boards are way more productive for the company and for the CEO and entrepreneurs.

So what makes a functional board, do you think?

Well, I think it's the ability, one transparent communication between the management team and the board board when there's issues, a board that can tackle those in a responsible way and have a good give and take and then, you know, settle on decisions. You never really want any one person on the board to be able to block or hold up the board on a decision. And frankly, it's way better to have the CEO driving the board than the other way around.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I couldn't agree with you more. Can I ask, is there an experience or a particular moment where you've really changed your opinion of yourself as a board member and maybe altered the way you act on the board.

I think if, like I said, we've all gone through situations that were dysfunctional. I think when you go through that, you realize, well, if it was dysfunctional and I was on the board, then I was part of the problem, and so how can I be part of the solution? And you look at what makes a board dysfunctional, and then you try to promote a board that is way more functional. And so that has to do with who you put on the board, how you communicate with each other, and having trust and respect for each other as board members.

Couldn't agree with you more there, Barry, but I would love to dive into my favorite element of any episode being the Quick Fire round. So I say a short statement and you give me your immediate thoughts. How does that sound?

Okay, sure.

So what's the favorite book and why?

Well, Adam will appreciate this, but I just got a book called Quantum Computing for Babies written by Will Hurley, and it's an easy read, you might expect, but it talks about quantum computing. It's about a three minute read. Read.

I might add that to my book list then. What's the most memorable LP meeting in why, Barry?

Well, I think there's two of them. The first one we ever had is Lightspeed, which in a way is sort of like, okay, we're doing this, we're off the ground. It's very, very exciting. And the last one we just had, you know, last year we delivered about $1.8 billion of liquidity to our LPs. And that's really rewarding because you see it on their faces. They're all happy, obviously. And. But that's our job, Rod, is we are paid to take someone's money and give them more money back. And when you have a chance to do that and create liquidity, it's awesome.

Yeah, absolutely. What more people are saying do you most frequently revert back to and why.

You want to talk about liquidity? And there's this notion of unicorns. I just don't like the word unicorn because it's sort of like unfinished business. It's like celebrating touchdown before you know whether you've won the game or not. And so I like to use the term narwhal. Unicorns are not real. Narwhals are real. They also have horns. It's actually a long tooth. But when we have a billion dollar outcome, we like to call them a narwhal. And everyone knows I'm all about the narwhals. And RLP's appreciate that. Because I think liquidity is what matters to them.

What do you know now, Barry, that you wish you'd known at the start of your time in vc?

Well, shoot. I know most of the companies that were great investments so I probably would have tried to invest in all those companies. But I think the thing about VC is you just, it's a long term game. It's all about working with great people, whether those be the entrepreneurs, your co investors, the people you bring onto the board, the people you hire. It's really a people oriented game. I've had the pleasure to work with some, some great people over two decades. For that I'm really thankful.

Who's the best board member you've sat on the board with, Barry?

I think from a venture perspective I really appreciate the style of someone like Jim Getz and he's obviously done quite well for himself as a venture investor of one of the, the best. But for Nimble Storage, I sat with him on the board and I got a chance to sort of see him. What makes him really good is he was great at encouraging the company at times and challenging the company, but always with a tone that was very constructive and I think it motivated the company a lot based on his comments. And so you know, he would go deep when he needed to, he would stay high when he needed to, but seemed like just the right amount of comment and help from a board member. Obviously you don't want to have a board member that tries to to help too much and you don't want to have a board member that doesn't help at all. And I think Jim provided a pretty.

Good balance in that penultimate question and one from Nicole Quinn. What inspires the immensely colorful collection of shirts?

Well, you know, life's too long to wear boring shirts. I like to wear colorful shirts and brightens my day and hopefully the people around me. And one of my favorite shirts has Narwhals on it.

So I love it. I'm so glad you don't see my wardrobe. And final question, most recent publicly announced investment, Barry, and why did you say yes?

I think it was probably Impera, which is a company that we invested in with the folks at General Catalyst and we just did an A round with it. I invest in it because this is a 27 year old entrepreneur that I think the world of. One of the things that I've also noticed is that entrepreneurs, we have more female entrepreneurs and more younger entrepreneurs and that's all great for our industry. And this is a particularly strong young entrepreneur that's very thoughtful and mature, well beyond his stages. I'm excited to be involved with that one.

Barry. As I said, I had so many great things just from so many of the team. This really has been such an honor for me. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Well, great. It's an honor to be on it. Thank you Harry.

I have to say I'll always be truly, truly thankful to the show for giving me the opportunity to speak to incredible and inspiring people like Barry. Such an awesome interview and a real pinch me one there for me. But if you'd like to see more from Barry, which you must, then you can follow him on Twitter arieggers. Likewise. It'd be fantastic to see you behind the scenes here at the 20 minute VC. You can do that on Instagram hdebbings1996 with two Bs. We'd love to see you there. But before we leave you today, thanks to my friends at WePay, let me introduce you to a cool player in the space We Love WebConnects, the maker of powerful software for event management and fundraising. Their products go under the names Reg Fox, ticketspice, Giving Fuel and Red Podium. Reaching more than a minute million people a month and processing more than a billion dollars for their customers. WebConnects products are nearly white label solutions so thousands of organizations can customize them to be like their own in house solution. They're all about flexibility and customization and you can learn more@webconnects.com and to learn how you can grow your revenue with integrated payments just like WebConnects did, visit wepay.com Harry and WePay's got this fantastic study about how another platform, TeamSnap is working with WePay to make make payments, its number one revenue stream more than its subscription business. Again, that's wepay.com Harry and the reality is though that hiring developers is really really hard. It's much harder if you're looking only in a 25 mile radius of your office. And that's where Terminal comes in. Terminal is your dedicated partner in rapidly standing up world class remote technical teams. How do they deliver both speed and quality? Well, Terminal does this by focusing on everything necessary to successfully source, set up and support these teams. From physical elements like beautiful workspaces and equipment to ongoing resources like hr, payroll, legal, professional learning and development. But don't take my word for this. Take the word of Eventbrite, former 20 VC, guest hims and Dialpad. All customers and lovers of Terminal. You can find out more today at Terminal IO. And once we have that team as we know, it really doesn't end there. As a founder or operator, your most important job is people operations. Whether it be hiring, hiring execs, developing managers, retaining that top talent and building a high performing culture. And that's why you need Lattice, the number one people management solution for growing companies. And Lattice helps companies like Asana, Reddit and Cruise build a strong company culture. With Lattice, it's Easy to launch 360 reviews, share ongoing feedback, facilitate one on ones, set up goal tracking, and even run employee engagement surveys. And Lattice is the only solution that combines performance management and employee engagement so operators can really make sure top performers are happy. And Lattice is giving away three months of lattice free to 20 VC listeners. Just go to lattice.com 20VC that's L-A-T-T-I C E.com 20VC that really is a must. As always, I so appreciate all your support and I cannot wait for a fantastic episode on Friday with Andrew Farah, Founder and CEO at Density.