Bobby Lee: Comedy, Skyrim, Sex Robots, Love, Fame, and Power | Lex Fridman Podcast #287
Bobby Lee talks with Lex Fridman about comedy, his podcasts Tiger Belly and Bad Friends, his relationship with Kalila, and his recent relapse and recovery from addiction. They discuss his love of Skyrim, his thoughts on sex robots, and what gives his life meaning after years in the spotlight.
Questions this video answers
August 2019.
105-pound weight category.
Chapters
If you and I were able to go into Skyrim, right, and walk around and live together, would we make love? No, no, no, man, don't go there, okay? No, no, no, no. Because we like girls, man.
The following is a conversation with Bobby Lee, a stand up comedian and podcaster and one of the funniest humans on the planet, and just someone who brings joy to my heart with a mix of non sequitur, absurdity, darkness, and the singing voice of an angel. In all seriousness, Bobby is just a beautiful human being. I've been a fan of his for 20 years, since his time on MADtv. To Today with his podcast Tiger Belly, that he does with his other half, the love of his life, Kalila, and the podcast Bad Friends, that he does with Andrew Santino. This is the Lex Friedman podcast to support it. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Bobby Lee. I've been a fan of yours for many, many years. I think you're one of the funniest people in the world. I've been a fan Since Matt TV days 20 years ago to today with with Tiger Belly. So given that, given your status as a world class comedian, how did it feel that you were not invited to Andrew Schulz's wedding? And I was.
Well, you were there.
Yeah, I was there. I was the least funny person there. And the whole time I was thinking, isn't that funny that Bobby Lee's not here?
Yeah. All my life I always felt like people didn't like me and they didn't want to invite me to things. You know what I mean? I think that's fundamentally the reason why I do what I do. So it really did hurt a lot. And I had resentments. I did some revenge fantasies about how I'm gonna get revenge on him and stuff. Yeah.
And him specifically.
Him specifically.
Okay.
Like, have a big wedding, invite everyone, you know, I mean, except him. Stuff like that.
Yeah.
And then just write him a letter, like, see, that's how it feels or whatever. But instead of that, I'm. Because I'm in therapy and stuff. I'm just kind of like trying to let it go. What'd you do there? This right here. Why'd you do that?
I forgot to start the timer and now it's start over. Yes. Let's do this. Let's do again. Take two. No. You still feel like an outsider. You're exceptionally successful in many domains. You still feel.
Yeah. You know, I'm doing a Netflix show tonight with Andrew Santino at the Comedy Store. And this and that. But like last night, you know, I just felt like I wasn't a part of. In fact, on stage I go, I even mentioned that. I go, netflix, they don't like me. You know what I mean? And I just say things like that they're not true. And this is something that I want to correct with myself because I have this internal dialogue that's based on. On just the past. And 99 of the things that go on in my mind aren't true. And I'm just at a point in my life where I'm just don't want to start. I want to start. I don't want to live like that anymore.
Really. Because I'm the same way. I'm deeply self critical all the time.
Yeah.
And that's kind of an engine that drives you to, to do stuff.
Yeah. But it doesn't give you the kind of freedom that I would like. Don't you want to be truly free? Free from your mind, free from negative thoughts?
No, I. I'm free part of the day, but some of the day I spent being extremely self critical. And that drives you. Because I'm afraid I'll become ultra lazy otherwise. Because I love life. I love being comfortable, I love just relaxing. I need very few things in life. And so I'm afraid I'll just get like super lazy.
Oh, are you a minimalist? Yeah. So if I went to your house in Austin, do you have a couch?
I recently got. This is the first couch I've gotten ever. Because the guests were complaining. Because I also record the podcast there. The guests are complaining. There's nowhere to sit. I have no chairs, no couch. I sleep on the floor. Like a mattress is on the floor. Not out of principle. I think out of some kind of minimalist momentum.
Minimal. So we're the opposite in that way then.
Oh, so you like stuff.
I'm not a hoarder, but. Because I can throw things away. But I have a shopping addiction, I think. Like when I'm on the road, like I was in Oklahoma for two weeks, I just. I bought a bunch of stuff. You know what I mean? And then, oh my God, I went to Todd Snider and I bought. I bought these shoes, you know, because, you know, I.
But you're wearing them, so they're. They're actually. You're using them and they're giving value to your life. That's awesome.
Yeah, but this is the last time I'm going to wear these.
This is one time.
Yeah.
This is like a wedding, but yeah. Yeah, It's a red carpet dress. Who, who's the designer? Do you know?
I don't know anything.
What are you wearing, Bobby?
I don't know what I'm wearing, but I. Because I'm on a native show called Reservation Dogs. Right. I just want to get into the spirit of things.
That's your.
Yeah. This is because if I was ever like native and I was in a tribe back in the day, you know, I mean, I would have been a gatherer. Yeah.
Hunter.
No, I'm. I'm gonna weave baskets with the ladies. Yeah. I want to pick berries with the ladies.
You wouldn't be the chieftain.
No, no. And I would make. After the hunt, I would probably make some. Let some of the guys make love to me.
Oh, yeah.
Because I'm gay. Just because, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Like me, there's a power hierarchy. You got to know your place in the hierarchy.
Yeah. You're alpha male then.
I don't even know what that means.
Joe Rogan.
Joe Rogan is the definition of alpha to me.
Yeah. If there was a picture of alpha male in the dictionary, it would be Joe Rogan. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you hoard stuff. Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
But you can throw it away. What was the last time? Let me call you out on that. When's the last time you threw away something that's actually valuable? Valuable like something valuable to you or valuable in general?
Most things that I buy aren't valuable to me. There are things that are valuable to me that are like keepsakestakes for my family and stuff that I will keep forever. So I like in terms of like an old photo of my father or whatnot, so those kind of things I keep. But when it comes to like, you know, Aviator nation sweats, like if some of like somebody came over to my house and goes, hey, can I have six of those sweatshirts or whatever, I'd be like, yeah, go take it. Okay. And my brother's come over to my house and just done a clearance, you know, I mean, like, I'm going to take this, this, and this I generally really don't have a problem with.
So the self critical voice is serving no purpose in terms of. Because you're pretty, you know, I'm a fan of yours. So you're known to be a little bit lazy, sometimes 100% lazy.
Yeah, yeah.
So the self critical voice, don't you think that it's serving a purpose in fighting off the laziness, beating off the laziness?
The self critical voice that I have, I've been able to compartment. How do you say compartment? Yeah.
However you say it, you're free.
Yeah, yeah. Put it in a compartment. Yeah. Right. And I'm able to, like, I'm a good avoider. I'm good at avoidance. So for instance, right now, to avoid, I've been playing Stardew Valley. You know what that is?
No. Phone game or.
No, it's a. You can play it on your switch, but it's on the Xbox and it's a farming simulation game. And so I like to farm, you know, I mean, and so in playing video games and doing stuff like that distracts me from, you know, what really is going on.
Okay, you've mentioned elsewhere in terms of video games. Elder Scrolls.
Yeah. Did you play that?
Yeah, of course. It's probably my favorite game. If I could live in a world. You played Morrowind and Skyrim.
I played Oblivion.
Oblivion.
I played a little bit of Morrowind, but I didn't like the graphics back then. But I really played the Can I swear on this podcast. Yeah. I played the out of Oblivion and Skyrim, like eight characters. Played it all the way through. I have to do all the quests, that type of thing.
What's your favorite thing about those games? Why did you spend so much time in that world?
Because I. I like games that you can grind.
What do you mean by grind?
So like Stardew Valley, for instance.
Right. There's a lot of back to the farm.
Back to farming. Right. Okay. It's the same thing as Skyrim. The reason why I like it is that there's a lot of, like I have to collect a lot of these things, you know what I mean? I have to just constantly pick things up, you know what I mean? Like for instance, in Skyrim, there's a mushroom called blisterwort mushroom that you can pick and then you can make it into some sort of formula. Right? Potion.
Yeah, that potion. Yep.
So I would spend like literally human 12 hour days just going to every cave and picking up as much blisterwort as I could. Like that kind of grinding, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
So you're actually the randomly generated quests that do design for people like you.
Yeah. You don't get bored.
That's the, that's the fun.
Yes, that's fun for me.
Okay.
Yeah. There's always something to do. And I find like when, when you play a game that's linear, like there's certain games where you have to go this way. Right. I don't like games like that, Yeah. I like open world games where I can make choices and I can grind if I want. Yeah, yeah.
Would you stay in that world if you could live in that world? In the, in the Elder Scrolls world? That's how I feel.
In reality. Or become like an animated thing in there?
Oh, no. Say like virtual reality. We're moving towards that direction.
Oh, yeah.
If you look at Skyrim, you mentioned graphics has become. It's starting to get realistic.
Yeah.
Like, I, I, I'll sometimes just walk around. I mean, it's been a while, but I'll just walk around in Skyrim. Yeah, you can, there's code. You can turn off enemies and you just walk around.
Really?
You can just listen to music and just walk around.
That's what you did? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would do that. Wouldn't you do that? Would you do it with me?
You sure.
We would have a house together.
Oh, I mean, live. I thought. Walk around.
No, no, no. If you and I were able to go into Skyrim, right, and walk around and live together, would we make love? No, no, no, man, don't go there.
Okay.
No, no, no, no. Because we like girls, man. Yeah, that's right.
It's not gay. Well, you told me it's not gay.
Yeah, it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So you and I would.
Yeah, I would hunt, you would gather.
But in that world, there's no hunting, you know? But there is hunting. I would have the. Because we don't have to find a bandits, we have to fight. I'm not going to gather a bandit. I'm going to hunt them.
But I thought you said it's all about the potion. You don't need the bandits.
Okay, well, we could do this. We could. You could be the guy that like, defends our place. Yeah, right. I'll gather all the Blister ward, all the white caps, all the mushrooms. I'll get all the food. I mean, I'll go to Whiterun, remember? White Run? Right. Or Winter hold. And I'll do all the, like, quests that have nothing to do with you.
I mean, so no dragons, though?
No, no dragons. But we would have a banquet. We'd invite the Dark, Dark Brotherhood. Yeah, right. The Fighters Guild. We definitely invite them. Mages Guild, we'd invite them.
Are you a thief kind of guy?
I'm a thief guy. Yeah. I'm a. For life. Yeah. I'm a thief guy for life.
And you still wouldn't invite Andrew Schultz?
That. No, no, no. But what a piece of shit though, huh? Because. Let me just say something. Okay. I just want to get back to that. Okay.
Okay, sure.
So I met him at the Montreal Comedy Festival, and him and I are kindred souls. We. We really connected.
Yeah.
And he did my podcast. He's done it several times. Done his. We've. We've, like, communicated on the phone this and that and to me. And then he invites Whitney Cummings, which Whitney is a good friend of mine. But what I'm saying is, is that I know Andrew as well as Whitney knows him. I don't think that Whitney knows him more than I do. Right.
What if it was a competition? Like, it was a tie, you know, like NBA. Like Bobby Lee versus Whitney.
Yeah.
In what way do you think she's better? In what way do you think you're better?
I think it's all about gender optics. Okay, Right. So comedian, she. He has all these alpha males coming, and he's like, all right, I can. I have one more seat left? Yeah. Whitney or Bobby, but Bobby's. Although I don't think there was a lot of Koreans there, so he could have used that card.
This is true.
Right. But I think he went for. You know, Whitney's a woman. It's better for optics.
Okay. So she was a diversity hire for the wedding.
Yeah.
I see.
It was.
It was pretty fun. It was pretty. I have to say, I don't. As Joe Rogan. Yeah, I know his wife.
I get it.
Yeah. And then Whitney, are those the only.
Comedians that were there?
I spent the whole time talking to Joe, so I. I think. No, I don't think there was that many comedians. So I'm kind of joking about. It was pretty. Pretty small wedding.
Yeah. What do you talk to Joe about?
First of all, we're both grapplers, so we talk a lot about jiu jitsu. We talk a lot about.
I'm a grappler. Are you? I was on the wrestling team in high school.
Yeah, I know, I know.
This is a grappler. That to you that if I don't know jiu jitsu, is there only one kind of grappling that you like? Yeah.
There's levels to this game. I think I just talked out. No, no, there's nothing more. Yeah, there's no. That's a surprising fact that you've dropped that. It almost feels like a lie because you've said that before that you were a wrestler.
Yeah.
In high school. It doesn't make sense.
Well, it's funny that you say that because. And I'm going to call it a little Controversy here. Right. But Joe Rogan, yes. One time came to me when he lived in L. A. This is years ago. He said, you're a liar. You've never grappled.
Yeah.
And I go, yes, I did. You're a fucking liar. No, you didn't. And at that time, I didn't have any photos to prove it, but if you look at my Instagram, I have photos that was a grapple of you.
As a young man dressed in a singlet or what.
On the wrestling team.
On the wrestling.
If you go to the fucking. Sorry. If you go to my. If you go to my fucking high school. Yep, you're right. I was on the wrestling team for three years.
I'm not going to go to your high school. So is there actual photo evidence of you.
Yeah. You know what? You're. You're being like Rogan right now. And I. You know me. It really is.
How do we know it's not Photoshopped?
Can you. Well, you be the judge then, dude. Okay. So this is my brother and me in high school on the wrestling team, which.
Oh, it's you.
I'm the bottom. That's my brother. To the left. I mean. Yeah, to your right.
Oh, handsome.
Yeah. I'm not. That's. Yeah.
How much do we.
Wow. At the time I weighed. I was on the 105 weight category. Yeah. Yeah. But so I was also on the tennis team. What people don't realize is that I'm very athletic. Okay. Yeah. And I resent the fact that people that think that I'm not because I'm doughy.
You're an athlete, so. Which is very surprising to me.
Why that.
So I was invited to the wedding.
Yeah. Yeah.
I've also been on Joe Rogan's podcast. He's a big fan of yours.
No, I love Joe. No, Joe. When Joe's and I see each other, we hog and stuff. We talk.
I just talked to him today, said, I'm talking to you.
It's hilarious.
So why. Oh, you hug him. He just never.
It just hasn't worked out. Like, I don't. Like, I don't want to go. Like, hey, if. Because I don't want the rejection. So it's like, if I go, right. Hey, can I do it? And he goes, I don't know, man. I'm busy, man. You know, we got. I got a lot. I mean, maybe later, you know, I don't want that. So if, you know, if. If he said, hey, are you available Thursday? This date? Fly out, do my podcast. I would 100% do it.
And that hasn't happened yet, so. Interesting.
Why is it interesting?
I don't know. Because you're, you're. Like I said, you're one of the funniest people in the world. That'd be a great conversation. It's just funny. It hasn't happened yet.
Well, it's like this conversation. It's like, I just learned how to tell time.
Yeah.
Not like, I know how to read digital.
You showed up on time today.
No, digital. I know how to write digital, obviously. But in terms of the hand clock. Yeah. I just learned that six months ago.
How to operate a hand clock.
To read a hand clock.
Hand clock, yeah. Okay.
Not that I. Obviously, I'll be able to absorb the information. I just. I'm one of those guys that just refused to learn things. If I just.
What did you think it was before?
I would look at it and I would try to. Sometimes, like if I was at a train station. Yeah. And I would look at those old clogs.
Yeah.
I would look at it and try to guess. And I kind of go, I think this is the way, you know, I mean, but like, not fully, you know, I mean, really grasp.
So the way ancient people looked up at the sun to try to tell time. You looked at a clock to try to tell time.
Right. Like, for instance, like, we don't look at the sun. Right. So to me, it was an obsolete information, to me, because digital.
You already had digital.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so that's somehow comparable to you going on the Joe Rogan and you.
Because it's like, I don't know much about podcasting. Not podcasting I can. But in terms of like the singularity and all that stuff, like, I know what it is, you know, I mean, when machines can have consciousness, when is.
That going to happen? Soon. Are you afraid of robots? See, if you were in Austin, I would show you some robots.
Oh, I'd love to.
Are you afraid of robots?
No, I love it.
You love robots?
Oh, yeah, yeah. In fact, I have this. I think, to me, unless they become hostile and it becomes like the Terminator, which I think could happen. Right. There'd be a Skynet. We have to bring it down, whatever.
But there's definitely going to be autonomous weapons system. So a lot of the robotics research is being conducted, funded by the military.
Wow.
You know the military industrial complex.
I know what that is. Yes. Yeah.
So the, the. A lot of the cutting edge research is done, is funded by dod, Department of Defense, DARPA and so on. So A lot of the robots will be used in war, but hopefully not most of consumer robotics will be in the home. I'm just trying to terrify you.
No, no, no. But can I ask you this, though?
Sure.
What you're saying to me is that as a layperson is that in my lifetime that machines will have consciousness.
Oh, that. I don't know.
Computers.
I'm one of the people. Well, depending. You're. You live dangerously, so I don't know how long you're gonna live. So let's, let's put. But I believe that consciousness. Yes. Could be engineered in a machine, or at least we can have machines that are human like, and we believe they have consciousness.
Can I ask one last question about it?
Yes. Okay, but just one more.
Will they have this smoothness of skin and will they look realistic?
See, I'm one of those people that believes that visual appearance isn't the, the magic. So if you close your. If you're blind, you can still have a connection with a person. People can fall in love with each other through just letters. So, Yeah, I know you're mocking me with your entire energy, but. Yes, yes, I believe that part too. You're talking about sex spots is what you're probably getting. Okay. Intimacy. Just friends. Friends. But you wanted, you want to feel the smoothness.
Yeah. Like a guy. Like, you know, just go, what's up, dude?
And just, yeah, just, just hug and kiss, like on both cheeks kind of thing.
I, I get what you're saying though. Right. Obviously there's no soul. You're right. But, you know, I mean, and I'm just curious to see. You're right. I was going with sexbots, but.
Yeah. Have you seen Whitney Cummings's robot?
Yeah, I've seen it.
Okay.
Yeah.
How did that make you feel?
She's a beautiful girl. I just don't find her attractive.
The robot or Whitney?
I find the robot way more attractive. Yeah. If I had the choice robot.
So you were turned on by the robot? See, I was surprised by the very thing you're saying, which is the realism of the skit. Like, it was quite. They did a really good job on that robot. Oh, they did that. The life, when, when it's animated, the life is not quite there. You can tell it's a robot, but just sitting there still. It has a lot of human, like elements. The texture, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, it's quite fast.
They're getting there.
They're getting there. Yeah.
Yeah.
But the funny thing about sex robots is most people that get Sex robots, they don't get it for the sex. They get it for, like, intimacy. Like, not. Not sexual intimacy, but, like, just somebody being there. It's. It's the emotional connection, not the sexual.
Yeah, I mean, I. You know, I saw a long time ago a. A documentary about real dolls and people marrying them.
Yeah.
Yeah. And what I was fascinated about is the cuddling, you know, I mean, and then watching TV together and stuff like that, which I find, you know, I've just been able to find human girlfriends and stuff, so I'm really impressing.
That's one of the reasons.
Thanks, man. Yeah.
Hey, speaking of human girlfriends, I'd love your advice in this direction, but you're. You have an amazing relationship with Kalila.
Yeah.
So you two are very different. So you host the Tiger Butler podcast together. But there's. There's real love there.
There's a.
There's a real connection. What. What do you. What do you love most about Kalila? Let's talk about love, Bobby Lee. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, that's a really pretty deep. I've never really gone down this path.
We're gonna walk down that path. Hands.
It's one of those things where the first time I met her, it was almost as if I had known her all my life. It was really weird. You know what I mean? There was a. A trust there. You know what I mean? That was just fundamentally there. That I could trust her and that I could. You know, when I look in the mirror and I see all my character defects and stuff, and a lot of those things aren't necessarily things I want to share with people because I don't want to be judged or ridiculed. But with her, I felt comfortable showing those things. And I think she feels the same way about her. And then secondly, she's funny. I mean, she made me laugh, and she's hot. It's all, you know, I mean, the perfect. It was like a perfect combination of things. You know what I mean? She. One night, we were in bed, and I forgot what the joke was, but she really made me laugh. One night. It was. She was living in an apartment in Long beach, and I cackled. You know what I mean? And generally, women don't make. I mean, not women I'm dating, comics do. Don't make me cackle in that way. And then thirdly, she has. She's partly Asian, so it's like, you know, one time I dated a white girl, and I invited her to Koreatown.
Are you about to be racist?
A little bit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And what I love about Asian girls is they'll eat something first and ask what it is after. But white girls ask what it is before. What is this? Right. But K was. Would eat the eyeball, eat everything, go, what did I just eat? I like that. You know what I mean? So it's like. And it reminds me of my mom in that way in terms of, like, my mom growing up, just to scare us and freak us out, we'd have a fish and she would eat the eyeball first to see us squirm. And as a kid, that you thought was gross and weird and this and that. But it's like, you know, when Kalila does it, it just kind of like. I don't know. It just makes makes me feel like, at home.
Yeah.
In a weird way.
I don't know. It's a. It's a little act of fearlessness. I like that.
Yeah.
Just put in your mouth and figure it out.
Yeah, that's what I like. And at the end of the day, she also. Out of all my girlfriends, and this is gonna sound not strange, but hard to admit, but my career, when I met Kolila, was in the shitbox. I could not get anything going. And this is at the time where Ken Jeong, who's a very good friend of mine, very talented, was getting everything. And I just remember going, I can't even get an audition. Like, I can't. I would go on the road, Lex, and I would fill half the room. I just couldn't sell tickets. And when I met her, I was just kind of like, maybe this is the. I have to find love and open up my world in that way. And she was the first girlfriend that I ever had that looked at me and saw the potential. And she said, no, this is not. Doesn't feel right. You're so funny and you're so relevant to me. And this is what we're gonna do. And so she started Tiger Belly, you know, and then obviously, I had the skill set to do it. But once Tiger Belly happened, and then Andrew was like, let's do bad friends. And then now things are great. You know, my career is. I'm too busy almost, in a weird way, you know? And I feel like she had a lot to do with, like, for instance, before I met her, even if I would get an audition, I wouldn't go because I just wouldn't get it in my head. I was like, I'm not going to get this. I've gone on a thousand of these, and they just never hire Me, but she was. So. I just didn't go on them for years. And then she was the first girlfriend that said, no, I don't care if you don't get it. Right. I just want you to be a pussy, and I want you to walk through fear. And so she would drag me to these fucking things and I, for some reason, would book them, you know? I mean, so, you know, in that.
She saw the potential of what you could be. She loved you for who you are already.
Yes.
But also loved you for the potential that you could become.
Yeah. And I'm lucky in that way, you know?
So on day one, you could show her. You said you could show your flaws to her. Like, you felt like you could be fragile with her.
Well, I accidentally farted.
Yeah. Day one.
On day one, you know, because I just have. I'm a fart machine. Yeah. And I have loose cheeks.
Yeah. I like how you would. For the listeners. He just winked at me.
Yeah. I have loose cheeks and.
But not in a gay way.
Not in a gay way. No. And I. I was. We were on a couch and we're talking, and I kind of adjusted my body. I ripped one by accident. And she laughed, you know what I mean? It wasn't embarrassing, you know, and.
Also.
Have a little penis. I have a little penis.
And it's all relative.
Yes, it's little.
But relative to an elephant, everybody's penis is little.
Yeah, but I'm not an elephant. I'm a human, you know? I mean, so relatively human. It's very small. And so when she saw it, you know, I mean, I thought she was gonna balk at it. Yeah, right. And she looked at it as if it was like an orphan. Like, you know, like, I wanna. You know, it's a lost child and I want to, you know. You know, take care of it. Yeah, yeah.
Cradle it.
Cradle. Yeah. Well, you. Man, you haven't met anybody like that.
Never met a girl, never seen one of them. I hear they're nice. When are the two of you getting married?
We don't know yet. Yeah.
Is that something you would like? Yeah, this comes up sometimes.
You know, we're in couples counseling. We're dealing. We're working on some issues that we have. Every relationship, even my friendships have issues. And so we're working through some issues, and once we get to the end of it, we'll figure it out.
Would you like to be a father one day? This is kind of couples counseling.
You know? Yeah, I do. I do. Because I. I feel like, you know, before I Was very childlike. You know, I play a lot of video games. I'm irresponsible, I'm lazy, this and that. Right. But you know, to be honest with you, Lex, in the last six months I've really have come through some breakthroughs and I'm in therapy and I'm doing a lot of things and really self analyzing myself and my behaviors and what I want, my desires. And I think ultimately yes, I really do because it's a life experience that, you know, I don't want to be an old man looking back and going, it's something that I've always was interested in. And I think it's based on fear because I don't want to mom scar my child the way my parents scarred me. But at the same time, my parents didn't do the work on themselves like I am. And they were never about self improvement. They were just about. They were immigrants, you know, and they wanted to put food on the table. And after that they just went about their business. And I'm not like that. I would never be violent toward my kids like my parents were. My dad was very physically abusive. You know, there was a lot of trauma and stuff. And so, you know, as a kid I thought, you know, I just would never put my kid through this. So that's why I never wanted it. But I would completely do it differently, you know, even yelling and those kind of things. I would be very mindful about those things. And I think that I have certain things, you know, I'm not a sciency guy like you, but there are life things that I've learned over the years that I could teach a child, you know, about living in the moment or walking through fear or, you know, things that, you know, things will pass and just different things, you know, that I could. I would be a good listener and yeah, I would like to do that.
So your. Your dad died in August of 2019.
Wow. Yeah. You did your research?
Yeah, it's on your Wikipedia.
Yeah.
So you said some of it was rough, but what's your fondest memory of your dad?
What? Those memories happened later in life as a child. My fondest memory was my mom because he never spent time with us. So my mom made him take me out one day and he took me to a park. Like he doesn't. There was no baseball glove or baseball or anything like that. And we sat on a park bench, right? And we just sat there for hours. We didn't talk because he didn't know English that well. I didn't know Korean So it's just very, you know, basic, you know, information being, you know, I mean, how are you? This is how we go. How you doing? Yeah, I'm okay. You know. Good, good, good. That type of thing.
Yeah, for a long time.
For a long time. And then. But the day turned bad because I. I forgot my jacket there and he yelled at me. There's a bit of peace together at that time. Yeah, there was peace. But then what happened was later in life, when I got Mad TV and I was doing, you know, in my early years, you know, I booked a couple of things. Like, you know, in 2000, I did the Tonight show on Leno. And then I did. I got MAD TV in 2000. And how. That was over 20 years ago. And that's when they. My parents kind of went, huh, you know, because obviously, you know, there's some nepotism in Hollywood, right? But in my case, my parents were straight up immigrants. I had no connections to Hollywood, and I came up here poor, you know, with no connections, and I built it, you know what I mean, through the years, you know, and in. In that way, I'm very proud of myself because I went through a lot of fucking hell and sadness and desperation and all that stuff, and I persevered and I did all that shit on my own, man. I booked the Tonight show on my own. I got Matt TV on my own. And when I did those things, my parents were very proud.
But before that, did they doubt you?
Oh, yeah. You. You not. You're not funny.
You.
You. You. You never make me laugh. Yeah, right. And that kind of stuff, you're never going to make it, you know, I mean, you're going to be poor all your life, you know, that kind of stuff.
But Mad tv, he was proud.
He died. Well, you know, every. Because it was a weekly show, so on Saturday nights, they. They would watch it. They would. Yeah. And. And I would. I would play characters that they would understand. Like I did Kim Jong Ill at the time. Yeah, right. So they loved that, right? They loved, you know, the things that I would do. The physical comedy.
Yeah.
And they couldn't believe in their mind, you know, imagine your parents from Korea coming here, you know, not knowing the language, having a child here. Right. And in their minds, that was never like an option, Right. And so when they see their kid, I guess, on TV especially, there was no Internet too, at the time. The Internet had just started. So to them, they were like, this is a miracle. In fact, when I did the Tonight show, my dad called me the next day. And asked me. He literally asked me this. He goes, how much did you pay them to do it? He thought that I had saved all my money. Like. Like, he thought that, like, Tom Cruise goes up there and goes, here's a grand. Thanks for having me on. Like, you know, I go, no. They asked me, like, all the. Conceptually, they were just shocked by it. So when I got it. And then they were watching me weekly. MAD tv, the producers, like, hey, have your dad on. So my dad did two or three sketches on television. So at that. So those memories. I also did a pilot for Comedy Central, and he was on my pilot.
Pilot for, like, a show.
Yeah, show. I didn't get picked up, but he was on the pilot.
He was in the show.
Yeah, he was in the pilot. He was on MADtv, too. On television.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Oh, wow. Okay.
Yeah, yeah. So it's like he. He would get residual checks. Yeah. You know.
You know, change everything. Those. Nepotism in reverse.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really. Nepotism in reverse. And so he. In those memories are very. I have very fond memories because he had changed as well. He was no longer that violent kind of a guy. He had softened a lot, you know, I mean. But when he died is when those issues came up, you know, like a freight train, the bad stuff. Oh, yeah. And I didn't know what was going on. I was. It was really hard.
You miss them, how often you think about them.
Every day. Obviously, a lot of it's regrets, you.
Know, I mean, like, what kind of regrets? Not having said something or not having had a conversation.
It's not regrets because. Because even if he was still alive, there are just things that are impossibilities because of his culture and the way he was raised. But my regret in life will always be having those types of even. Cause I tried. I was with my mom a couple of months ago, and I looked at her and I had tears in my eyes. We're at a Starbucks. I go, mom, I just want to let you know that I'm so sorry that you lived in that house. And my dad, you know, and dad hit you and you survived. You stayed in the marriage because of us. Right. And you know what her response was? Let's go to Puka de Pepo. She wanted Italian food. Like it was. It like there was no. There was nothing there. Right. And so my regret is, is that, you know, that they just wouldn't never be able to even grasp the concept of that kind of communication. You know what I mean? And I'll never Have it. So that's sad to me, you know, but there's nothing I can do about it.
Yeah. That callus that comes with the immigrant mentality, you don't even. That emotional connection is not even there. I've had my grandmother.
Yeah.
She. There's something called Hodemore, which is starvation in Ukraine in the 1930s that you had to live through. She lived through World War II. And there's nothing like. The only way you survive that is the callus you bring.
Yeah.
You can't talk with people that fought in the. In. In major wars. They can't.
They can't. Yeah.
Talk about it.
My mom, when she was 12 years old, she walked her little sister, my aunt, to school, right? She forgot a book. So my mom goes to my little sister, My aunt stay here. I'm gonna go get my book. She ran up. She came back. While she was gone, a military truck ran over my aunt, and my mom discovered her body split in half. Entrails, the whole thing. And my mom and my uncles had to go and get rice bags to pick up her. You know what I mean? And then bury her. My aunt, you know, when you live through something like that, and also the guilt, because my mom believes deep down that if she didn't forget that book, that her. My aunt, would still be alive. Right? So she carries all this guilt and this. And to survive all that trauma, you have to build a callus. Back then, they didn't have EMDR and therapists and psychologists and any of that, Right? So they had to survive. So that's who she is. And it's sad to me that. You know what I mean? That it'll forever. She'll forever live in that torment.
Boy.
Yeah.
What about your own? What's. What's been the darkest place you ever gone in your mind.
You wrote that down. In my mind.
In your mind. You ever consider suicide?
Have you? I didn't write that down. Okay. Have you considered it in the distance? Yeah, I've distantly thought about it. You know, about four months ago, I was in a really bad place. I was naked in a hotel room in Arizona. I hadn't eaten in, like, almost a week. I hadn't slept in over a week. I haven't slept. You know, And I thought I was dying. I. I was coughing up blood, and I was waiting to go into a outpatient psychologist place, you know what I mean? In Arizona, I literally thought I was dying. So recently, I was in a very dark place.
How much was that connected to losing your father? How Much was that connected to rehab and that kind of stuff.
Alcohol, drugs, all the same thing, dude. It's all the same thing, man. It's, it's, it's all from my childhood, right? The reason why I do stand up is because of my childhood.
The hating yourself or like being self critical, that has to do with your childhood. Yes. So the drugs and drinking is childhood, childhood.
It's all about survival and protecting your heart, you know, and there are way, there are ways that I did that as a kid, like using humor as a defense mechanism and also avoidance of all emotions, you know what I mean? Because it's just one and feel and I'm able. The reason why comedy is so good, the reason why I was able to survive in comedy is because I can withstand a lot of bullshit and pain. You know what I mean? Like physic, like physical, emotional, spiritual pain. I can absorb it, right? But now what's happened, you know, later in life is I'm unwilling to do that. I'm unwilling to absorb it. I'm unwilling to carry this weight around with me and it'll kill me. So I am doing everything I can to free myself of all this baggage.
Okay, so how you're naked in Arizona, a hotel room, face down or face up or on the side or what's your favorite when you go to a dark place on the floor, on the bed or.
So what happened? Bathtub shower, a fetal position. Okay. I don't lay on my stomach. That's weird. Like, like I'm not doing like a downward dog, a yoga position or anything like that. No, I'm like on the bed, on the floor. No, what happened was. So I had a relapse. So I was doing drinking all night long.
What was the first relapse? What is the thing the first thing you did? Just drank what, wine?
No, I took an edible. Yeah.
And that opened the door to drinking.
Yeah. And the combination is not good for me. And I do the excess of the amount. Isn't that good for me? I just can't stop. And I do it 24 hours a day.
Alone?
Well, no, I was living with Kalila.
No, I mean at that moment when.
You do the edibles, I was alone. No, I took a flight because I was shooting Magnum. I'm on a show called Magnum PI So I was flying to Hawaii. So I bought edibles. And then on, right before I was going to get on the plane, I looked at my girlfriend and said, I'm going to relapse also.
You knew.
I know. So I got on the plane, I took it. And then literally, the last. The next three months were like a blur.
Why'd, you know? What gave you the sense that you're gonna relapse?
There was a couple of things that happened in my life that were very shocking to me, and I. I just. And I wasn't going to meetings, and I. You know, it's the same old story, you know, I was not connected to my sobriety brothers and sisters, and I was drifting away, and I.
And something in your mind, it was just.
I just. The pain was too much, so I did it. And then. So what happened was now two and a half months in, three months in.
I.
I started coughing up chunks of blood, right? So I was. Because I've been a smoker since I was 17 years old, right? And I was smoking so much weed and cigarettes that I would just cough up blood. But then simultaneously, what happened was Bob Sackett and Louie Anderson died, right? And that week when I was coughing up blood, and because of. Because I knew them, both of them, I just, in my head going, I'm next. Because to me, everything happens in threes, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm. And I had convinced myself that I was gonna die, and I was on the precipice of death, and so I begged my people to put me into this place in Arizona, so. Because I knew. I knew what I needed to go to a. A really rigorous psychology program to get me out of wherever, what I was going through. And also I was getting. At that time, when I was in that hotel room, I had not drank or even smoked a cigarette or didn't drug in a week. I had to wait in L. A for this bed to open up, right? So I was coughing up blood. I hadn't slept, I hadn't eaten, Right. I was sober. But, you know, I was in so much pain. And I slept naked by the door of this hotel room because I thought it would be easier for the maid to discover my body. I mean, that's how fucked up I was. I don't. I was just in this prison in my mind, you know? And I'm much better now.
Can you give some insights to how to get out of that place, how you got out of that place?
I think getting sober, first of all, was very important, but that still didn't do it completely. You know what I mean? I still was convinced that I was. And then going. I went to this place and I did. You know, this place is a 12 hours a day psychotherapy place where you do 12 hours of. You see therapists all day long. So it's.
It's like a 12 hour long podcast every day.
Yeah, yeah, but with professionals. And. And they call you on your. And they tell you what's real and they tell you, you know, I mean, you know, I'm going also dealing with, you know, my. Still my dad, still some of these other things that I. You know what I mean? And. And the third thing that happened was when I got back to LA after that place, I got my lungs checked out and I got my physical done and ekg, my heart, all of it, and I was completely fine. And I quit smoking. I haven't smoked in almost four months. I haven't drank and done drugs since then too. So there's definitely a complete clarity. And I have to also admit that this time around it's just been completely different.
Is there still in the distance, a fear of relapse and all that kind of stuff? Is that still.
No.
So you feel good?
I feel great. Yeah. I feel better than I've ever felt.
Even when hard shit happens.
Yeah. Because it's like I no longer want to be in that place.
Yeah.
And also on top of it, it's like, it would be a real shame because I've worked so hard to get to this place in my life, not just in my career, with all of it, you know what I mean? I have so much to lose. I have so many people that love me. I just don't want to be there again, you know?
Let me ask you. Sorry, you've talked about this before, but it's interesting.
Let me ask you a question. Do you always wear a suit? Only for the podcast.
Yeah, I wear it in private too.
Oh, you do?
Not always now because I get recognized, unfortunately. So I have to be selective about how I wear.
What, you like it when being recognized or. No.
So because of podcasting, as you probably know, the people that at least recognize me are. Happen to be amazing people. So like, yeah, like, they. It's an immediate connection. So there's two things about that I don't like. So, one, I fall in love with people. And so the nature of interaction is like. Well, it's gonna be short.
So. Yeah. Yeah.
So like, you have to say goodbye and I hate goodbyes.
You do? Yeah. Yeah.
And then the other thing is just introversion. Like I just. I'm. I'm an introvert. I'm a. I have social anxiety. I've nervous about talking to people and so on. So you have to always. I'm Walking around always a little bit anxious that there will be an interaction, but ultimately, once it starts, it's fun. It's. It's beautiful. And then the.
The.
The. The goodbye is what hurts. So both the hello and the goodbye is what hurts. It's the stuff in the middle that's delicious.
I think there's a beautiful thing, though, for people like you and I in. In a weird way, you know, because, number one, I'm an. I don't know about you, but I'm an isolator. I don't really like, you know, any kind of social thing. You know, I like my. Even when I was doing drugs and drinking, I never do it with people. I do it privately in a garage, you know, and secondly, you know, like, I was. My girlfriend and I went. Watched the Northman. The movie the Northman?
No. What is it? Does it tell me the plot line?
You didn't even heard of the Northman?
I have not heard of the Northman.
It's Eggers. He did a movie called the Witch. He also did a movie called the Lighthouse. You ever see the Lighthouse? Okay. You watch movies?
No.
You've never seen a movie?
I've seen the Godfather.
Yeah. I bet you money you've seen Dr. Javaga. Yes, yes. Yeah. Like, you like historical sweeping?
Schindler's List.
Yeah. Yeah. If it's not historical or sweeping, you know, you're not gonna. All right, so how do I explain? It's. It's basically a Viking movie. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And scars. One of the scars guard. I don't know. Skarsgard Brothers is in it, Bjork's in it, Willem Dafoe, Nicole Kidman, Ethan Hawke, and it's a. You know, it's a Viking revenge movie. So.
Why does it make you think about isolation?
No, because. No, what I was going to say is, when we went. When we went to the movie theater right afterwards, there was a kid sitting next to me, and he just looks at me because I guess he didn't know I was sitting next to him or whatever. And he just went, you know, hey, dude, I just can't believe you're sitting next to me. You know, and you're my hero, and I think I'm doing comedy, and it's really hard. So I was able to give him some encouraging things and. Because that's who I am, too, you know, I mean, I. I want to help people. And I also, you know, the idea that he likes me because he also spouted off specifics about my life, about, you Know my comedy and this and that. So he definitely was a fan. And I was able to, you know, you know, I'm not. Even if I become Joe Rogan famous or that big, you know what I mean? I'm always going to say hi to people. I'm always going to take photos with people. I like that part of me. It makes me feel also that I belong in a weird way, because I felt so invisible before I did comedy. I mean, I felt invisible, and it puts me in the game of life, I think, in a weird way, you know? So I think it's good for you as well.
Yeah, it's a little, Little moment of experiencing love. It's like, it does feel like celebrating life together. You smile at each other and so on. Although you did say, I think in a recent podcast that, you know, people recognize you but recognize you incorrectly, that.
I don't like that. That's the opposite of love. Okay. Yeah, that, that. I, I don't, like, loved you in the hangover. Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I, you know, I, or this is what I don't like. This is why I hate this.
Yes.
Some guy will like me, right? I'll take a photo and then other people will go, huh, he's somebody. And will walk up to me and go, hey, so why did he take a photo? You know, I want a photo. Yeah. And then you're like, no, I don't do. Would you do that? No, I would. I don't like that.
No.
Yeah. Yeah.
No, but I, I do like the, the experience where maybe there's a couple, a guy and a girl, boyfriend and girlfriend, and the guy is a fan and the girlfriend has no idea. And it's always a funny interaction because she's, like, trying to figure out what is happening here.
Yeah.
And it's always beautiful to see.
But what if the guy, when he, the guy explains to. To his girlfriend who you are, do you feel uncomfortable about that?
Yeah, y. Loads. The information is transferred quickly and she starts to understand because she's not used to her boyfriend being excited about a stranger.
Yeah.
What. What's happening here? So it's a fascinating little dynamic. That's a beautiful. It's like the spread of information happens right there in real life. It's beautiful.
It's mostly, though, do you. Would you say that it's probably usually men that recognize you or.
No, but men. The thing I've discovered is men are more likely to approach aggressively.
Right.
Women recognize you. They have a different way of, like, double take. They don't want to invade your space. Guys are like, bro.
Yeah, yeah.
They come in with a hug. I had south by Southwest, had a guy. I was just walking to 7. I go to 711 a lot. My favorite spot. Guy. 7 11? Yeah. Sugar free slushy. I think for happiness. I like, I find happiness at a 711 so adorable. Late at night. And he came up and you know what? Can I tell you something that happened to me? I, I haven't told anybody. This never happened to me before. I was outside of a 711 in Austin. I'm not going to say which one. And there was a gentleman that approached me. This was at three or fortnight, which is usually when I go a program all night, and I just like to go and take a break. He approached me in the way that maybe somebody who recognized me approached me. He did a double take. He walked past me and then walked back and then looked at me and I went into the 7 11. I thought, that's weird. And then I came out with my slushie and. And then he approached me and he said, can I give you a blowjob? So I have never.
No. Really?
Yeah. So the energy he put. I've never had.
Were you wearing a suit?
No.
Okay.
I was wearing, like, the sweatpants, and I was very kind of like, hiding from the world.
Yeah, yeah.
Type of thing. I've never had anybody approach me that way. But the energy he put, the love he had in the approach, I thought he'd be like.
Love you on Rogan.
Yeah, love. Yeah, Something like love. Some kind of. And then he just said, can I. I'm forgetting the exact wording because it wasn't the, the wording was such that he wasn't. He wanted to make me happy.
Ah.
He didn't want to make himself happy. He wanted to make me happy. Well, when I forgot, can I give you a blowjob? I think that was the thing.
It's like, because if he said, can you give me a blowjob? It would be, it would be very different. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, but I think there's more aggressive way of phrasing that. But he, he presented himself. See, I forget. Because it was almost like gentle and poetic. And I was like, I, I, I just stuttered and said, no, no, thank you. Move past.
That's what everyone does. Yeah. No, thank you to a bloody starter. No, no, no, no, no, no, thank you.
In my mind, I was like, is this a threat? Because it's fortnite. I wasn't exactly sure. I mean, I've never experienced it. I imagine this is what sort of women often experience that kind of the danger, the constant threats all around you. But I've never. That's just. It was. It was a funny little moment. I. I didn't know what to do with it.
Yeah.
That happened. And I. I go to that 711 often looking for the guy. Because now. All right, now, I would say, yes, no.
There used to be a steam room in Beverly, on Beverly Boulevard. And my brother and I walked in there once, and I. We walked in and was a man sitting there, erection. And his dick was so big, he was jerking it off with both hands. And we kind of walked in and he goes, what's up? And he just did it. And we just sat there, you know, I mean, because it was not aggressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And maybe that was the same feel. You sense that it wasn't an aggressive thing.
Yeah, it wasn't.
Yeah, yeah. It was just a kind. It was. He was just minding his own business. He threw it out.
But it wasn't. Also. It wasn't sexual either. It was like. It was like. It's just. You know, it's just like. It's like love or something.
Yeah.
I felt like he. It's almost like, can I give you a hug?
Right. Then why don't you just take it?
I. I keep looking for it. Next time I see it. I. Not in a gay way.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just want to be clear about that.
Did you grow up in Russia or Ukraine?
Russia.
In Russia.
Yeah.
But your great grandmother or grandmother was in.
My father is Ukrainian. My grandmother is Ukrainian. So if you just look at the full family trees, about half and half.
Is Russia a lot of conflict with you right now, the.
Internally?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let me. Let me ask. You've talked about this before, but I'd love to sort of re. Explore this as Carlos Mencia.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Why?
Why go there again?
Yeah, I'm willing to do it. But do you like Carlos?
Well, first of all, I'm friends with Joe, and I remember being a fan of. I'm outside this whole world. I remember thinking Carlos was funny.
Yeah.
So I just. As a fan, I was like, oh, funny. And then I remember this. This. All this big controversy about him stealing jokes. And because I'm a fan of yours, it's such an interesting human dynamic, and I'm a fan of friendship and loyalty. And you had a great podcast conversation with him. It was tense.
It was so tense.
It was very tense.
Yeah.
But it was interesting.
And it.
It kind of what makes me think of you talking to your father on that bench.
Yeah. That's essentially what it was.
Some of it wasn't getting through, but maybe. How do you feel about that whole thing about the guy? I mean, he gave you. He's a friend. He gave you a lot. But you're. You're also comedian, so stealing jokes is no good. But also there's like a. I don't know, all the tensions in your heart about all that whole thing. How do you feel about it? Do you forgive him?
Okay, let's just. Let's go back to. It's very Shakespearean in a very weird way. Right? Because there's some betrayal there, you know, I mean, there's a lot of drama when it comes to that situation. Again, also, I'm a very loyal guy. Like, I've had the same manager since the late 90s, and I've had every gigantic manager want to sign me, even though my manager is great, right? She's in a big company, right? And there's only so much she can do. And maybe, you know me, my career would have been different if I would assigned with a bigger management. I don't know. Right. But I will never leave her. You know, I'll never leave my agent, Matt. You know, the people go, well, you're at caa. That's amazing. The only reason why I'm at CA is because of Matt Blake. You know, so there are certain loyalties that I have. The Comedy Store, you know, I mean, I generally play the Comedy Store mostly because my loyalties are with them. I don't know if that's a good trait, but it's just the way I am. Right.
I admire that. Yeah.
Okay. So when it comes to Carlos, you know, in the early. In the mid-90s, is when I met him. I was a doorman at the La Jolla Comedy Store. He brought me on the road. He introduced me to Matt Blake, my agent, right. And he bought me a car, you know, when I couldn't pay rent, you know, and I was really desperate. I could always go to him for money, you know, and he helped me out in so many different ways. Right. So in. You know, I really appreciate that. Paulie did the same thing. Anyway, and then all of a sudden. And I always knew going on the road with him, that number one. I found it odd that he never had a notebook. You know, usually, you know, comics riff with each other and they write things down. You know what I mean? Me, I'll get together with people and Write, you know what I mean? I'll do a new joke night because I'm too scared to try it in front of a packed room or whatever it might be. Okay. He never had, did that, right. And he had hours of material and you know, a lot of it was derivative of other people's. He would sometimes hear a bit change it to Mexican. Like for instance, you know, if Paul Mooney had a joke about black people, he would change it, change it a bit. But premise wise, it was always extremely too similar. And there are examples on the Internet. So, you know, you can't, there's things that you can't really deny. And so when, when that whole thing happened, you know, it was like the Titanic. I mean, I was either going to sink with Carlos or survive. And I did the worst, not the worst thing. I made a difficult decision and my decision was to cut ties. And you know, over the years I've felt very guilty about it in, in some respects. But you know, there is always in my mind I want to help him. You know, I want to help him re. Establish some sort of a different, you know, route for him to go in terms of his career and whatnot. And so I had him on my podcast and it didn't go the way I wanted it to go. You know, I mean, I've always believed if he just fully just was apologetic and said, you know, I'm sorry for stealing in general because we don't know specifically. I mean, there's specifics, you know, I mean, and I don't want to argue every case, you know, so I thought the healthiest thing to do was like in, just in a broad way, listen, I stole. I'm so sorry. These are the reasons why. And I'm a different guy now. But it just never happened in that way and so it's been difficult.
So you don't think he self reflected looking in the mirror about mistakes of the past at all? Like, do you think he's aware?
I think it's ego, you know, I think that he, for one reason or another, he, because there are probably jokes that he legitimately in his heart know that he wrote that people are accusing of stealing. Right? Yeah, but you know, it's like we don't know. Right. So it's like just apologize for all of it. Right. But he won't. He fights for every, you know, every point and you know, I just think that that's not the route and he, I mean, he's always going to make money. He's, you know, he's Never going to be what he should be, which is he's a powerful performer, you know, in terms of laughs. I mean, dude, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to follow him. He's a crusher, you know, so it's like, you know, it's really. He can act. He has all the skill sets. It's just that to me, he went about it in the wrong way, and it's sad to me, and. But I still always love him. I. And I've always will thank him for all the help that he's done.
So you still got room in your heart for him?
I have room for my heart for a lot of people, man. You know, Hitler.
All right, what was the returning back to Tiger Belly? Because you said Kilila basically started it. What's the origin story of Tiger Belly?
You know, when I met her.
Oh, by the way, for people listening, in case you somehow don't know, Tiger Belly is a podcast.
You do.
It's an amazing podcast. You also do Bad Friends with Andrew Santino.
Yeah.
So on.
Thank you so much for the plug. Appreciate it.
I don't know. It's contact. It's not the plug.
It's. Can I plug other things, though? What? Since we're doing it.
Sure, sure. Oh, what's your.
I'm on a show called Red.
Okay, that's enough.
Thank you. So what. What.
What's the name of the show you're on?
I'm on a couple.
A couple shows. Oh, it's good for you. Netflix?
It's. No.
Okay.
I'm on Sex in the City.
Sex in the City?
Yeah. I'm on Reservation Dogs there. It's an FX show.
Wait, Sex and the City is not a joke.
No, I am actually on Sex and the City.
What are they rebooting the show?
They did. Okay. It's called. And just like that. Sex and the City.
Oh, and you're on it.
Yeah.
Is this not. Is this is not a joke?
You can Google it.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Who do you play?
I play a podcaster on it. On the show. Sarah Jessica Parker's Carrie has a podcast, and I'm her podcast partner. Oh, got it.
Perfect.
Beautiful. But then. But I'm also. Now they've my storyline. Anyway, it's fine.
Do you sleep with somebody on there?
I am married on the show. Yeah. They showed my I'm married to a young lady on it. Yeah.
It felt like. It felt like.
I know. Because you don't think doing it. I look around going, are you sure? I'm supposed to be on this, you know, I mean, I do feel that, but lo and behold, I'm on it.
Yeah, you are.
So I started this way. So you know my friend David Cho? Do you know him? He's an artist. He used to have a podcast, right, Called DVD asa, and he used to have me on it. And then Kalila started doing it. And then when DVD essay ended, Kalila was just like, let's start our own. And I was like, nah, it's not gonna work. So she goes, well, fine. I'm gonna just do it on my own then. So she went and bought the equipment, and we were living in a condo at the time in Hollywood, and she would do them on her own. She did probably three on her own. And one day I was watching television. The door was open to the podcast room, and I looked, turned around, and she was literally like this, dude. We had a table like this. She had the mic and all that stuff, and she was doing this. She was like, slumped over like this. And I just kind of went. So I walked in there, I go, all right, let's just do one. Yeah. And that was. That's how it started.
And then chemistry was there immediately.
Well, I already knew that she could do it because of DVD sa, Right? So I already knew that she had the skill set. It's, you know. You know, it's just all about. Even in this conversation that you and I had today, right? There are gaps of like, oh, what else should we talk about? Right? Yeah, right? Or, like, I don't know what direction, right? And it's all about the old improv rule, adding information. Even if you don't know what you're going to say, just fill the dead space with something. Like, so if right now, if we had we stopped talking about something, I'd be like. Like, when I asked you, did you grow up in Russia or Ukraine, right? Was one of those dead spaces where I was just like, let's just throw it out there, see where this goes, right? And she has that ability to fill that dead space with information. That's all you need, right? And she gets it in that way. So it's like when we, you know, started doing it at dvdc, I just knew that she had the skill set. So when we started doing it for Tiger Belly, it was a given, you know? You know, she can do it there. I've had girlfriends that wouldn't be able to do it. What are you doing? You know, you have the skill set. You know, you're a sciency guy. You Spend all night long. You know, I mean, you know, I mean, you know, doing whatever you're doing right, but you have this innate ability to do it right. And I think it's a talent. Do you think it's a talent? No. Do you think it's, do you think you have talent? What are you doing? I know what you're doing. Not adding information. I know what you're doing. That's a good pit. It's a good band.
I kept doing it and you kept filling the space. It's quite interesting.
Yeah, that is true. Huh? Cuz you're.
Yes. Ending yourself, which is great. The improv thing, that was really impressive.
Can I ask you a question?
Sure.
Have you ever had a guest on that didn't add information and then you had to keep doing it?
Yeah. Yeah. But it's part of the magic too. And sometimes I feel like they were actually giving me a gift of silence and I was stepping on it. Like, for example, I had a conversation with Jocko, you know, Jocko Willink. And every question I would ask him in the beginning, and I'm now better friends with him, it was the first time we met in that conversation. And I would ask him these long questions of mumble and meander and so on, and he would answer with yes or no. And that's it.
Yeah.
And then. But he'd do it in a strong like, Viking like way. And I kept, I kept trying to go full, like Bobby Lee style of create chaos and just keep talking, talking and so on, as opposed to. I think he was inviting me more for the stoic type of silence, short sentences, that kind of conversation. So I I that up, I believe. But yeah, there's not the adding information part, but the adding chemistry part where some. It's usually ego. Where people don't realize there's a magic to be found between two humans. Like genuinely, it's like a first date to truly listen to each other and to do the yes and thing and have fun with it. When you have this energy. I'm way too important for this conversation that the. Yeah, the information might be there, but the chemistry is not. You have to remember that a lot of the podcasts I've done are like, technical.
Yeah.
And so you could still say a lot of stuff about, like, what, what this project or whether it's physics or robotics or biology. You could say informational stuff, but the, the excitement, the magic is not there. And. But I often blame myself because, like, if I'm excited, they'll be excited. I've Learned this. So I'm learning I'm not allowed to have, like, a bored face, which my. My face is naturally looks bored, but on the inside, I'm excited.
Yeah.
It might be a Russian thing. I don't know.
It's not. Can I tell you why you're not boring your face? Right. Because you have crow's feet.
Oh, this thing?
Yeah.
Is that what the thing?
Yeah. And the reason why you have crow's feet is you smile a lot. Yeah. Yeah. You're very expressive. I know white dudes. I don't trust white dudes. Yeah. Right. With no crow's feet. Right. Because that means they don't. They're not, you know, I mean, accessing that part of their, you know, I mean, face.
Yeah. You know, which is why I hate when this is an LA thing, especially. Women have talked to me, but, like, Botox and they. They hate the crow.
They.
They hate. Not on me, on themselves.
Oh.
And they. They hate. Because it's all wrinkles and stuff like that. And to me, it's like. No, that's where the. That's the magic.
That's the magic. It really is. Yeah.
So. Okay, so the interesting thing about Tiger Belly is there's some weird, like, aesthetic to it. It's really unique. It's not just good, it's also unique, like, in the way that Wes Anderson films are unique. Like Life Aquatic. I don't know if you know those films.
Yeah, I love those films. I mean, my favorite films. Yeah.
What is that? What is that? It. It's not just the chemistry between you and Koila. It's like. What is that? Can you. Can you put a finger on it, or is it just like.
Well, it's. It's essentially who I am. I, like. I. That's what my. All my houses have looked like that. You know? I mean, like, I've always been a collector of designer toys. You know, I mean, I've always been a collector of kind of weird artwork. Yeah, I've always been like that. You know, I. I like weird wallpaper. Like, I'll get. Instead of, like, going to a wallpaper store, what I'll do is I'll get artwork that I like from an artist, like, and go get the. You know, get their approval and go to a place and make wallpaper out of their artwork. You know what I mean? You can. Like, if I wanted a Lex Friedman, your face on my wall, I would ask for your permission, and I would probably put your face on a gigantic wall. Like, I would do stuff like that. That's awesome. Yeah. But can you do that? Yeah.
You have my permission.
You know, I think I will. Yeah. You know, I think I will. Just for the laugh.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, but I would do it big. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But my point is, is that I. Yeah. It's essentially who I am on the inside, I guess, in terms of, like, my. You know, I don't know, but I don't really. I've never. I'm glad you said that, because I never even thought about that. Yeah. He's just, you know, you just kind of do it like this, you know, because all your podcasts have this black, ominous thing.
Yeah.
You, you know, you're wearing a black suit. You're. You have a specific thing, too. It's like.
But I don't really think people ask me, like, why do you wear a suit? I really don't. I just feel good in it.
Yeah.
Just who I am.
And the reason why my podcast looks the way I do is because I feel comfortable in that environment. And it, you know, like you. I don't try to think too much about what I'm doing on Tiger Belly or even Bad Friends. Right. Because when you start thinking about it and go, we should do this segment, and I should, you know, do it this way or this podcast does it this way. So what, you know, No, I just show up. I keep my mind open, and I do the best I can. I add information like we talked about, and I just keep talking. Right. And I'm being. And try to be authentically myself, like right now, you know, I had this fear when I was. I was shit in your fucking bathroom, man.
Yeah.
Because I was so scared.
Out of fear.
Yeah. Yeah. And, like, you know, I was, like, kind of nervous because I, you know, this whole week I was anticipating coming here, and I watched the Mark Norman one, I watched the Giannis one to see, you know, how tonally. And last night, my girlfriend just looked at me, just goes, just show up.
Yeah. Kalila knows who I am.
Dude. You think that. First of all, let me ask you something. Yes. You think I have the day? You know how busy I am to drive all the way over here to West Hollywood.
Yeah.
To do your thing. Why would I do that? Yeah. Because we are well aware of who you are, and we like you. Thank you, God. We want you on ours.
Yeah, I would love that. I would love that as a. I mean, that's. That's.
That's.
The reason I'm doing this is just to get on your podcast.
You're Gonna get on it.
Awesome.
Yeah.
It's funny because I just mentioned to you offline, I got a chance to talk to Oliver Stone, and he asked me this thing, which is, you know, how many listeners does this thing get? All that kind of stuff. And I don't even pay attention to that. So it's like, I just don't.
A little bit, though. You do don't.
I wrote extensions in my browsers where I don't see the views, the number of views.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Did you know that, like, some of your YouTube videos on interviews and stuff have over a million that.
I know, I know, I know, like, loosely, that, like, it bleeds through, but it's. It's not part of my conscious, like, thing I think about. I'm very. I've just seen it destroy people's minds where they're no longer thinking creatively. They're not. They don't feel good if something they do doesn't get as much as attention as they thought it should. It just can destroy you. Even though it's good, it could be great stuff you create that nobody, Everybody ignores. But it was still great.
It is.
It is still great. And sort of letting that negatively affect your mind is a. I don't know. I've seen it destroy people, so I'm very nervous about that.
It's like that old saying, never live in the results. It's like if I. If I podcast to make. I'd like initially, honestly, when I did Tiger Belly, we made no money for the first couple of years. Wow. Let me, like, not enough to put a dent. I couldn't buy anything like, you know, nice or anything. It was just side money. You know what I mean? I could buy some shoes once a month or whatever. Right. And like I said before, I was. My career was in the shitter, right. So Tiger Belly wasn't like, this is going to be the thing, you know, I mean, it was just something to do with my girlfriend creatively, you know? And it just so happens that it did do all these things for me. Right. Podcasting. But, yeah, I never. And still today, I don't do it for any of those things, you know, I do it because it's fun.
Yeah. Yeah, it is, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
Let me ask you, since you say, why you love Kalila, Why do you love Slash? Hey, George. George Kimmel, your producer, what's your favorite thing about him? Let's say that positive thing. Positive.
Because I, I. Because, you know, it's like, you know, I don't want to give him Compliments. But, you know, I'll try.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll try.
Have you. Actually, I don't think you've publicly ever said anything.
I don't think I have either. So I'm going to get. I'm going to give it a go. I'm going to give it a real go here.
Okay.
Yeah. You know, at the end of the day, when it comes to money, when it comes to responsibility, you know, obviously this is a business now for you and me. It is. You know, it's. It's a side business, but it's a business, and you want to be able to trust the people that are running it. And I have 100% trust in everything that he does, in terms of financial things, in terms of technical things, in terms of all of it, you know, I mean, merchandise. And I have 100% belief in Him. I. And that's rare, you know, to find someone like that. Also, at the end of the day, I know his heart, and he really is a great guy. He. There's nothing about him. Like, for instance, you know, he was over the other day, and I go, you know, I bought this key, wooden thing that some native man made, and I don't know how to put it on the wall, so I just, you know, I go, hey, can you figured this out? And he goes, yeah, I got it. You know what I mean? Like, he's just that guy. Yeah. You know, he's also. But. But there is a part of me, and this is probably wrong.
Yeah.
But there's a part of me that feels like I kind of made him.
Yeah. He'd be nothing without.
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Well, I didn't say that's the way I heard it.
I did. That's what I meant.
Okay, but that's not what you said.
There is, and it's probably wrong. Right. Because he did all the things that he has in his life he did on his own. Right, Right. But still, for some reason, he'd be nothing without you. But that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, like. Because when I met him, I was a part of this YouTube studio called Maker Studios, and he was just a producer there, and that's how I met him. And when he left Maker, he came to us and. And he wasn't a podcast producer, and now he has this big company. He produces a bunch of podcasts, you know, and he has a bunch of employees and he has a nice business, you know, and I feel like I had a lot to do with it.
So both the competence and the good heart.
Yeah.
What about Gilbert?
Yeah, Gilbert is a Godsent as well. You know, I. I don't know if do. Because of. Let me ask you this because you're a science guy. This is an interesting question for me. Do you believe just that the universe gives you certain things at the right moment, at the right time? Do you believe that there is a mechanism out there where it's just. We're just a part of this machine that's kind of like almost as if things are just happening the way it's supposed to happen? Or do you think there's these random things that are occurring and we're just. It's chaos in that way.
I don't know from a science perspective, because I wouldn't be able to explain it. But I do believe you mentioned karma. There, There's a karma thing. It just. If you put love out there in the world, like certain doors open in a certain kind of way. Like they're almost waiting for you and then you walk to them. So, yes, in that way, I believe that it just, it feels like.
Not.
Everything is like a basic, like billiard ball model of like you have to fight for everything. You could just generally be cool to people and kind to people and certain opportunities just pop up at the right moment.
More specifically though, you know, so for instance, let's suppose like Gilbert, for instance, he just showed up at my house one day. I didn't know who he was. I had a fight night and a friend brought him, right? This is right when Kalila and I were starting Tiger Ballet. Right. And in conversation he was like, we didn't know how to engineer. We didn't have an engineer for our podcast. And that night he was that, you know, I know how to do it. Right. And if I hadn't met him that night, he just wouldn't. I don't know if it would be as good. It would be completely different. And I really believe that we were just. We were met. We met him that night for a reason, you know. So you don't believe that it's complicated.
I believe that for love and these kinds of things, but I don't believe that as much for building a team. But that's the engineering thing. I think that's the. The artist in you. I'm less of an artist. I think artists thrive in the chaos of it. So it's not only that you guys met at that time is you didn't probably ask in detail about his qualifications or didn't. Didn't go through a rigorous thing, you just dove in and figure it out on the fly. I think that's this. That's sort of the artist ethic. I think with, like, if you're doing a startup or engineering, there's a little bit more rigor in. In the selection process, but. Because the same with. With Rogan. Jamie just walked up to him. Jamie Vernon.
Yeah.
Yeah, he just walked up in the same kind of situation, and they made it. You know, both. Both of you have one of the best podcasts in the world. And so it's like, how did that. What?
Yeah, I. I. So I believe that very strange. Strange.
Or maybe it's just like cool people hang out with cool people, so you kind of collide a lot.
But that's not true, because they're. Because that's not true, because with bad friends, for instance. Right. I've had 12 people before Andrew Santino that had asked me to do one with me. Yeah, Right. And, you know, they just was. It wasn't. Didn't want to do it.
Yeah.
You know, with Andrew, though, it happened kind of organically and in. In. In a way that was almost like, in my heart meant to happen in a weird way.
That's a weird combination, by the way. So why did. Why was that the sticky one? And because you have a lot of comedian friends, why Andrew?
Because, number one, we both know, just instinctually, without even talking about it, that you in many ways were polar opposites in terms of, like, energy. Right. He's more aggressive. I also know I respond good with alpha males, you know, because I'm more of a follower, you know, I mean, or sensitive in that way. But in many ways, I am an alpha male in certain areas of my life, you know?
Yeah.
You know, when it comes to smashing. Dot, what's up? You know? Yeah. You know, so we both knew instinctually that. That in that way our chemistry worked. Right. And also in terms of style and all that stuff is completely just. It was just an organic given to us. Yeah. Yeah.
But you trust yourself with power. You play dictators.
What do you mean, do I like?
Because I feel like you would be. Because you said you're not an alpha male, but in many ways, when you smash what's up? And you winked at me, would you. What do you think about that? If I give you absolute power, would you be able to. What would you change?
What does absolute power mean? Like you said to me, listen, you are going to be the dictator of planet Earth, and anything that you want.
Is at your means, including Violence, Sex?
No, I would not. Because even in my personal life now, there are things that I could do. Right. That I have power, I guess, that I don't participate in. Right. So why would I do it if I had ultimate power? I mean, because there's always. There's still a moral and ethics that I have. Right. That I don't feel comfortable with. Right.
So you wouldn't even enjoy it.
No, I mean, I think that there would be. No. If I had ultimate dictatorship on planet Earth, there would be no violence. I mean, I would not cause any wars. Right. But if there's an uprising. Yeah. I'd have to quell it.
That's how it starts, Bobby. You quell it.
Don't rise.
Right, but so first you're gonna censor everybody who wants to even suggest the idea of uprising. And then. And then one person gets out of line, they run a red light. Okay, that's.
That's.
But you ever get angry in traffic?
Yeah, I get rageful.
So if you could murder that person.
No, no, no, no, no.
Nobody has to know.
No, I would give them cancer, but I would. Not so much. I know, I know. Okay. No, but. No, here. No, this is an interesting thing because I want. I want. I want to elaborate. All right, so the thing. If I was the dictator of the planet Earth, right? There would be a reason why people would uprise, right? So give me a reason. Because I would give them food, shelter, right? And all the things I feel like that people would desire. Right. But. But you're right. But you're right, because they're. You're right. I think this is what you're talking about. Yeah. So here's the deal. So there are certain things that I do believe in, right? Like, for instance, it's a very controversial thing, right. In terms of a woman's. Right, Right. In terms of abortion. Right. I feel like, as a male, I. It's not my body, so I don't really even have an opinion, and I shouldn't even have a voice on it because, you know, I mean, a woman, like, it's like if they created laws. If white people, men, created laws for Koreans in America, like, you don't have the right to. Right? So it's like. So if I would just. If I was a dictator, right, I would just be like, yeah, women have all the rights in the world, right? And they, you know, and I think abortion should be legal throughout the planet Earth. Right? But there will be people out there that will believe that. No, you know, I mean, we, you know, we're pro life.
So you would put them in jail. Just so.
That's right. So I think as a dictator, you. There was no way to be able to please everyone. So there will be an uprising.
Yeah.
So, yeah, fuck it. I don't want to do it.
Okay.
Would you do it?
Not. No. There's several loaded questions. Would I enjoy it? No. Would I do it? No. Because I don't trust my own mind under power. Like, I'm well aware that in situations where I have control, it's. It's as much a freedom as it is a burden. Like, it can change you. I'm very nervous about that.
Interesting.
Like how much. How much the ego starts to flare up. How much just like the less pleasant things about your nature come up. You know, I have a temper too. Like, I have all that kind of stuff. And you have. I'm sure you have a bit of a temper.
Yeah, yeah, I have a temper. Yeah.
And so whenever nobody is able to as clearly call you out on your. That's. That could be a problem.
Do you have this when you, you. When you rage out and you have a temper, is there like, like either a day later, a couple hours later, is there shame and regret that comes along with that or. No?
Yeah, no, no, of course. Yeah, during it.
Yeah, during it too. Yeah. Shame and regret. Yeah. Yeah.
And then. But I try to make sure it's like love and respect are felt always underneath the whole thing, but still it's like human emotion. You can't control it. And if you're given absolute power, you start to lose your sense of the world. You start to be unable to see what is right and wrong. You think everything is right. You start to be. Have a distorted view of who is doing the wrong things in the world. And then also distrust. Well, that has to do more with how absolute power is usually attained. Because when you're in the seat of power, everybody, first on the outside, but then in your inner circle, you start to distrust them. You start to believe that they're going to. They want your power. So the people you love, the people that were source of so much beauty for you previously, like even like your girlfriend, wife, your closest lifelong friends, you start to suspect them.
I don't want to live like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you're often right to suspect them.
So you think they change a little bit too.
They change to. Yeah, they start a little bit taste of that power.
Yeah.
The interesting thing is a bunch of people in the, In Hitler's inner circle at the very end Betrayed him to. In search of their own power.
Wow.
Fascinating. Fascinating. This power thing. Let me ask you a bunch of ridiculous questions real quick, okay? If you can be someone else for a day, someone alive today who you haven't yet met, who would you be for one day you get to be? Could be female, male. That'd be a lot.
I've always wanted to see what a pop star was like. Which one would you go like? Harry Styles.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah. So if I'm Harry Styles. Right. I just want to see, like, what it like to go to the Beverly Center.
Okay.
As Harry Styles.
As Harry Styles, yeah.
Or Coachella. Just walk around Coachella as Harry Styles. You know what I mean?
We get a lot of attention, and it's a very specific kind of attention.
Yeah. I just want to see what that's like. I want to be able to. Because the thing is, is that I want to be able to, like, see what it's like in terms of how easy would it be to get a hot chick?
Oh, I thought you meant, like, get a table at a restaurant.
No, no, no, no. That, you know, you. I can still do now as Bobby Lee, you know, but as Harry Styles. Or I want to see what it'd be like and how that would go about, like, how easy would be, you know? I mean. Yeah, yeah. Like, could you just walk up to the hottest chick at a Coachella and start making out with them?
Yeah, that's interesting. Just to see.
Just to see if you could. Yeah, yeah. Because I know. As Bobby Lee. No, no, no, no. Could you. No, you couldn't do that.
No, no. It's an interesting reason.
Yeah.
So if you were the last person on Earth, like, everybody disappeared, everybody's dead. What would your day look like? What would your days look like? What would you do?
That's interesting, because if I was able to figure out the, you know, electricity, I think my days would be like, why didn't you learn about electricity? Oh, yeah, right.
You realize how little you know.
Yeah, yeah. Why didn't you learn about these things? Because now you're going to die. Yeah, right. Yeah. But I think the first thing, obviously, is. No, let me ask you something. Why now? If you're saying that I'm the last person on planet Earth, because there was an alien invasion and there's predators and things that I have to look out for. That's one way. But if I'm just all of a sudden I wake up and just everyone's gone and there's.
Everyone's dead.
Everyone's dead.
But there's no threat.
There's no threat. Then what I would do is I go, well, let's find a place to live. Not probably my house, right. So I probably live in a place where. That's closest to grocery stores. Right. So I would get food and stuff first. Right. And then secondly, it's like, you know, I'll probably go. You know what I thought about? I would probably go to San Marcos, San Diego Vista, because that's where the real doll factory is.
And just all of them.
No, no, no. I would have to grab like six of them because I'm gonna get lonely.
Six of them for a variety. You wouldn't be monogamous with one doll?
No and no. And I also would carry out like the. The, you know, the vagina parts. You. Right. You know what I mean? And all the accessories and stuff. Right. And then go back to la, probably. Oh, man. Why stay down there?
You could stay in the factory.
No. Yeah. Maybe the stat factory. And then. But I think thirdly, I would run out of electricity. Right. And I think, you know, I mean, my demise would come slow.
Well, you could find sources of electricity because nobody's using it.
But I don't know how to turn the machines on. Like, I don't know how to go to the. Yeah.
What do you.
What do you call it? The place where it's. I don't even know what it's called. The place where, you know me. Where it.
All the energy is generated. Yeah.
The generators. Like, where do I go?
Yeah. It's good questions.
Okay.
All right. Would you rather lose all your old memories or never be able to make new ones? The past or the future?
No, I mean, I can't lose my memories, all of them. That makes me who I am.
But you wouldn't be able to make new ones. You wouldn't be. So you'd be living in the moment, non stop with all the. All the. But you did say you're in a really good place, so maybe this is a pretty good set of memories you got. You got all the drama.
Yeah. I mean, you just. That's a nightmare. You just created a nightmare for me. That's a nightmare.
The choice.
The choice is a nightmare. Yeah, you're. You're.
Either way, it's already beautiful. It's a kind of death not being able to make new memories. That's it? That's all you got?
Yeah.
You get to relive the memories you have.
As a science guy, let me ask you a question. Sure. Are you afraid to die? Yeah.
Of course not. Of course I am. I think about it every day. Yeah, I, Yeah, I meditate on my mortality all the time.
Right.
It doesn't make any sense. It's terrifying.
It's terrifying. And because. Are you terrified because of the unknown or because you believe it's nothingness?
The unknown. But my best guess is that it's something like nothingness. And that nothingness is so terrifying.
Yeah.
The infinity of the nothingness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But Ram Dass says, And this is something that I always. You know. Ram Dass. Yeah. Ram Dass says he believes that death is like removing a tight shoe. Like release. Like, ah, that could be it too. I think maybe when we die, that's initially, maybe the last feeling that we have is release. And then if that happens and there's nothingness, I think that's cool.
Well, no, that, that has to do more with the actual feeling of death, which I think some people are afraid of the experience, to make sure it's, it's a, it's. It's one of release, like you said.
Yeah.
But the existential aspect that you're no longer exist, like all this you're doing kind of assumes you'll live forever.
Right.
Like, you don't really con. Like all the, your career and all that kind of stuff. You, Bobby Lee, will be forgotten.
I know.
Like completely erased.
Yeah.
So all you have is a few moments in this life, a few moments of joy, a few moments of trauma, of suffering, and that's it.
I know, but here's the thing.
You're wasting your time today talking to me. And then you have, you have a few such moments, you do a couple hundred more podcasts and then you'll be dead.
No, because this right here, dude, right. Is human number one. I walked through a little fear today. So I learned something. Right. I'm talking to a science guy, which I never thought I could. You're the first scientist I ever talked to. Yeah, right.
You get a diploma at the end of this.
Oh, good. And there's. I, I believe that there was a connection. Right.
Not in a gateway, not in a gay way.
Non Gay connection. Right. Um, in certain circumstances, I probably would blow you.
Would you?
In a certain circumstances. Like if we were the last two people on planet Earth and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. But. Yeah, those are probably the only ones, but. Or like somebody put a gun to my eyes, you gotta blow Lex.
Okay.
Yeah. Kind of a. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm turned on right now.
Yeah.
Let me ask you one, one question.
Go ahead.
What do you think is the meaning of life?
My. That's the last one.
Yes, that's the last one.
Yeah. Yeah.
What do you think? Why are we here? Why are you here? Why are we here? Does any of it make sense to you?
I think ultimately, here's why I like life in general, is what we talked about. Like, we view death. There is a mystery there. There's a wonderment to it. Right. So it's like when I walk outside, you know, and I look at the trees and I look at buildings that man made these buildings, and, you know, I look at the universe and I look in the sky, and I don't really completely comprehend what's going on. Right. It's just so in. I'm in awe of all of it. Right. And I don't have any answers. Right. But that, I think, is what the meaning of life is, is to be in awe of it and the wonder of it all. And it's just amazing.
Yeah. Just open your eyes to the wonder of it. Yeah. While we're still here.
Yeah.
Bobby, it's a huge honor to finally meet you. I've been a fan for many, many years. Um, it's an honor that you would even consider blowing me in the correct kind of circumstances. I will.
I think you would blow me in the right circumstances.
I think that's the definition of love.
Bobby.
Thanks so much for talking, my brother.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Bobby Lee. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Kurt Vonnegut. Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh since there's less cleaning to do afterward. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.
