Calm Conversations: Dr. Rheeda Walker and Common "And Then We Rise"

Hello, I'm Dr. Rita Walker. I'm a clinical psychologist, researcher, and author. Today I have the high privilege of talking with legendary artist Common. We're discussing his newest book, and then we rise. In the book, he talks about four pillars, not just for physical health, but also for mental resilience. What I appreciate most about the book and also our conversation was just how practical and accessible the tools are that he presents. I really think you'll enjoy this conversation. Really, these are tools that you can use. Carmen, thank you so much for being here with us for this conversation. You have really become a household name through the impact of your music, your acting film on the stage, and of course, through your social justice work. And really now with the release of your book, and I have my copy here that I was so excited. I was so excited to be able to read it because there are so many gems in it and you really open up with your own personal path. But before we really dive in, I just. I really want to thank you for amplifying, especially the black community. Over the course of the last few years, I have really noticed that we've been talking more about mental resilience, but there's still a lot of taboo around that topic in particular. So if you could just tell us a little bit about what made you write the book. What is it about it that you thought was important for us to start to be more intentional, especially about our health?

Well, thank you, Dr. Rita, and I'm very, very grateful to be here with you. And this book is. It's my love letter to our community. It's a love letter to people who have high potential and have a lot of capacity to do great things, but don't have access. And what I mean, access is not only financial, obviously financial is important, but more importantly is having your mind in a peaceful place, in a center place, having your. Your body together and like, you know, taking care of it spiritually, being sound and. And having a faith in. In a higher power and just having access to foods that can actually aid and support the growth and development of your wellness. This is something that I feel is my way of, like, combating some of the negative things that we have experienced as people throughout the generations. And I never really heard, like, love yourself, take care of yourself a lot, and didn't know what that meant until I became an adult. And that has become something that has been my mission and vision and purpose. And I want to share it with as many people as possible, but it directly I called the book and then we rise because it was really talking to our communities. This is how we rise above all the negative things that have happened to us. These are strong ways because if we build ourselves to be whole and deal with our mental resilience by having support to get to a place of mental peace. And that doesn't mean you won't experience stresses, but you know how to deal with them and have the tools and resources to work through them. If we have those things, seeing what we've experienced in this country and across the world, we will be better. We will be better for ourselves and our families. We can live happy and more joyful lives and we don't have to get on the phone with each other and talk about who lost their lives or who lost this and this, this person got beat for this. And like, just some of the things that I feel like could be changed within our communities has to do with mind, body, soul and food. And that's why I wrote this book.

Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. And you know, not to be cliche, but there are just so many practical take home points that, you know, allow the reader to feel just so empowered. And I think, or it seems that that was something that was really important for you, was for every. To feel like there are specific things that I can do in my life. So thank you. Thank you for that.

I would say thank you for saying that. I wanted to say that because that is truly the intention, is empowerment. So thank you.

Absolutely. And I think that every reader will walk away with something. You may even be amused to know that before our conversation today, I was going to get a little lunch, a little snack, and I was going to have some chips on the back end of my snack. And I thought, no, no, that's not what we're gonna do. We're gonna have a piece of fruit. And that's exactly what I did. Because there are so many small things that we can do as individuals. And so, yeah, so you inspired me to not have chips, to put them away and to get a piece of fruit if I could.

Thank you.

But, you know, before we go further, let's talk more about the pillars, because I think the pillars, the four pillars, really anchor the message throughout the book. What it is about those four pillars, talk about them for the listeners.

Well, the four pillars are the food, the mind, the body and the soul. Like so many things that we want to achieve and be in life, it can't take just. It can't just be one part of you that gets there. Meaning if I got my body in shape and I'm like, working out, but my mind is not in the right place, then I'm not going to get to the full potential of what I'm supposed to be. If I have my, my mind together but I'm not doing anything for my body, then that's not being at the full potential. And obviously your soul is, it carries, it carries everything that you are and your soul does. And it's like when your soul is feeling better and right, it just, it exudes, it helps everything. And I really believe that food is a component to all of those things. It really matters. All this is connected. Like, no matter how much a doctor will say, hey, I'm going to give you this prescription and this is going to work. Your issue, this is going to, like, heal you. If you don't have the mindset that this is going to work, it's not going to work. Like, it's not going to work. You got to like, your mind matters. It's connected to the way your body reacts. And like my mother used to always say to me, don't stress yourself into being sick. Your mind affects your body. Your body can. And the more you take care of your body, it can help you to think clear. When I started eating a certain diet, I was like, wait, I'm like floating in the best way. I was seeing myself like I had never seen myself before. I was thinking clearer. I even sounded clear on my records. It was just so I realized at a certain point as I walked through this path that I couldn't just only be like, getting my spirit together. I needed to start taking care of my body too, because I could be very spiritual and just be eating the worst things. And that's not even allowing my spirit to be at its best place because the foods do affect you. Or if I'm not moving my body, that's not allowing my mind to be at the best place. So it's all connected is what I'm really trying to get to. Dr. Rita.

Yes. And it brings to mind actually Maslow's theory that is the hierarchy of needs. And it's relatively popular in just about any introductory psychology textbooks that, that we have access to. And essentially, Maslow talks about what drives us as humans. And there are five things that drive us. Starting at a foundational level. Having food and water and a place to live. Very foundational. But then getting up to, you know, having a sense of safety. You know, income means, you know, to be able to take care of, of oneself. And then there's self esteem, you know, so you're kind of moving up this, this hierarchy, you know, so foundational. Then you get to a place of self esteem. Then you get to a place of feeling like you belong, you know, with a family or with friends. And the highest point is self actualization, which is kind of what I hear you talking about. And the self actualization is a place of creativity. It's a place of being able to access the creator and divinity. And so interestingly, that psychological theory is something that, that seems to coincide with what you have been talking about, that is this integrated person. Does that resonate for you at all?

Yes. Well, thank you for sharing Maslov's theory because that, that was something I was not familiar with and it is. So is. Is one of the things that I do believe. It's funny, when you started talking about the base level, it made me think about how important hip hop culture has been to me because hip hop culture was teaching me about food, clothing and shelter. Like that's what some of the brothers and sisters who had knowledge of self talked about in their raps, like food, clothing and shelter was the bait. Like that was the basis. And you know, as you progress and take those steps, as you said, you get to the highest point of like being in a creative space. For me, creativity is a divine thing. It's like God speaking through. And I have to be in tune with God and have a purpose for it to be at its best for me. And I have to have a clear mind. I used to like to write while I've been drinking, but now I like writing when I'm in the clearest place where it feel like even if it's not sunny outside, I feel like the sun is shining on me because of where I am mentally and spiritually. And you know, I think that is where the, the divine art can come through. Because art is so divine. It's such like, it's one of the things that, that if we look at life, it's one of the things that doesn't separate us from anyone. You can't. Like just a song is not going to make people like just be in division, you know. You know, I mean, you know though you have beef raps, but I mean, that's not the song doing it. Music is, is, is. Is essentially God's expression is creative and, and so, you know, from plays to films to, to paintings, all of that brings us to divine expression. And I think, you know, I was able to find out a lot about myself through creative expression. So it was like God was teaching Me about myself through the art I was making. And so it is a very valuable and divine thing. And I. I was just telling my mother, who's a teacher, and she hadn't been. She hadn't. She hadn't ever really been into creativity. I was telling her, like, ma, you have to. You gotta just do some creative things. She's like, well, I'm not that creative. I said, well, you know, you create programs for students. That's creativity in itself. So anyway, I think creativity is. Is. Is a high level of divine connection.

You know, it's interesting that you would. Would mention that, because when I saw the four pillars and, you know, mind, body, spirit, mind, body, soul, and food.

Yeah.

When I saw mind, I anticipated that you would be talking more about our thoughts and how our thoughts affect us. And where you went was to creativity and. And divinity. And so maybe you could say more about that, how you connect creativity and divinity and our highest self. Because the highest self also permeates the book as a place that we're all. And that you want to inspire us all to get to.

Yeah, well, I just think the mind is so powerful. It shapes so many things of how we see the world, how we see ourselves. And I think it's one of those things that you have to practice. Like, when I'm talking about working out, like, that's important. Get them endorphins going. You feel like that natural high. You feel good. Well, you feel a certain high when your mind is like when you could find peace of mind in the most difficult situations. And that takes practice. That takes you practicing. Like, what do I have that while I'm dealing with the stress and anxiety that can get my mind to a place of peace? So I'm not just only thinking about this stressful thing, and I can't get out of it. Like, I have been in those experiences, and I don't like it. I don't want to be in that. So me, like, developing my mind, cultivating it, nurturing it, feeding it good things. The diet for the mind is supreme. It's important. So me feeding my mind allowed me to eventually get to that point where I spoke of earlier. And what you just brought up, Dr. Rita, is a creative place where I feel at my best and I'm expressing what God has ordained me to express and chosen me to express. And it reminds me of this quote by this choreographer named. Her name was Martha Graham. And she. She did this. She had a quote where it says, it's not up to you to. To judge the art that is coming through you. It's, it's coming from a higher place. And it's not up to you to say if it's right or wrong, good or bad. It's just up for you to allow it to be, to come through you. And for me, I have to have my mind in the most sensitive place, in an open place for me to allow that divine expression to come through me. And it can only come through me. Like your, your artistry and your writings and your work. Dr. Rita will. They can only come through you. And you gotta like, open that channel to allow it.

You know, there are a couple of things that you said in there that were so powerful. One is, is practice and recognizing that, you know, we don't just show up one day enlightened. It is about a disciplined practice and something that we have to do. And the other part is, yes, not judging. But I think, you know, the judgment probably comes about because we're in a mindset that's not more connected to the higher power. We're kind of in our own sort of. This is what I've always done. This is what other people expect of me and all those things. And, and no, we're not tapped into that higher place of creativity that, as you said, comes through us. And actually, if there's a to be, every one of us has our own individual thing that only we are responsible for. And as you know, we're in a society where there are a lot of comparisons that people make, but you can't compare your creativity, your higher whatever it may be to compensate to someone else's, because that's for them. And yeah, that's for them.

That's for them. And listen, I'm an emcee. I'm a hip hop artist. Competition is, is great in rap music. And you don't think I've heard like Andre 3000 verse or Nas verse and be like, oh man, I gotta go, right? But I love that. But it, but their inspiration, that's them reaching their highest point and being creative and them being themselves. And it inspires me to go reach mine. I'm not going to go out there and try to be them. It's, it's like, wait, what's the highest point within Rashid that I can create from? And that's what all of this. Like, we, you know, we see different things on Instagram and this person doing that and we naturally sometimes feel like, man, the jealousies or the fit. But when you really get to that center place of knowing who you are, you could really kind of just appreciate what they doing, respect what they doing or, and just be like, if it affects you in a way that's inspiring, great. If not, you're like, oh, that's cool, they doing that. And I've had to learn to do that in situations where it's come to auditioning and like somebody getting a role that I really wanted, you know, and where my mother reminded me, yo, you got to send light to that person that was there, that was their role. And your role is yours. Your roles are yours and you're going to get those. And when you really trust in the most high and know that your purpose and your path is yours, then you know that the roles that you're supposed to have are going to happen. But that's practice point blank. Because it's not. You naturally feel when you don't get the role that, oh man, I really wanted that role and such and such. Got it. But it takes, you know, it takes methods and different ways to say and it. And it actually allows you, opens it up for, for you to receive what you're supposed to receive. Because if, if I'm not in a space where like, if I'm sitting there worried about what somebody else has done and saying they didn't deserve this or didn't, how am I going to get what I'm supposed to get? It's like you paying attention to something when something is coming for you, but you're not even looking towards it because you focused on someone else. So, yeah, that's what I've grown to do and practice more and more.

You know, there really are so many themes from the book that resonate for me. And one of the things that I've come to realize over the years is how much more we do need to be in tune with ourselves and also in tune with others as part of a community of people. And so in my first book, the Unapologetic Guide to Black Mental Health, and then following up in my workbook, I introduced this idea of psychological fortitude. And it is a zero to ten rating. And you can tell me if any of this starts to resonate for you. It's a 0 to 10 rating of our capacity to be able to manage our emotions, to manage our minds. Like sometimes we're just so overwhelmed, we'll say, I can't even think. Our ability to take care of our responsibilities, whether it be at home or work or school, in a classroom, to tap into our life purpose and to do that while managing all the threats, all the things that would come to kill, steal and destroy. And in my mind, and 10 is the highest possible psychological fortitude. And so that's what we're always striving for. Recognizing that understandably we'll fall short on occasion. But with that in mind, and as I mentioned, seeing some of that show up as themes in your book, and I actually have a note here from an interview that you did where you said, when you're not feeling healthy or feeling 100%, it disturbs the way you can function and it affects you mentally too. And I think that's such an important message because there are so many things that just kind of come at us and we need to be able to stay focused and to stay as disciplined as possible. But with that in mind and knowing how intentional you are about your health and your well being, but knowing that things happen, what are some of the strategies that you use to get yourself right back on track, to maybe amplify your own psychological fortitude or pf.

Well, you know, one of the things that's been helpful for me has been therapy because it helps me to be more present. Meaning like if I'm in a situation and someone is bringing something up and it may be something that I've been wounded from before, but they're not bringing it up with that intention and that's not even who they are, what they're doing, but I'm projecting that on to them. Because of my own experiences and things that I've dealt with and haven't healed, I'm now more aware and try to be conscious within those moments to understand like, okay, this is not that person accusing me or really trying to degrade me. This is something that I carry from my past and I have. Being. Being able to be present in that way has been a way for me to, to. To not always react to situations that may not be what I think it is. So that's a process I have to go through. But it's also having the understanding of what childhood trauma is and, and things that I've. That I personally have experienced in childhood that I bring to relationships, to friendships, to, you know, just to life. And so having that awareness is something that I really have really utilized in difficult situations where I am getting heated and sometimes getting heated over the small things too. I find myself just sometimes just saying, let me take a breath, let me just breathe and just let me be thankful for something. And when I'm thankful, it's hard to be angry because I can snap like I can't have. I didn't grow up, like, just peace and like, you know, Kumbaya. Like, it's like my nature is love. But I grew up in different experiences and. And sometimes it became a way of life to just somebody cross you, yo, you go back at them real quick. That's the reaction. But now I have tools that help me to say, okay, let me take a breath. Let me take a step back. Let me step off for a minute. Some gratitude. What do I do, you know, and. And. And realize that the things that I might. How I might naturally react is not worth it. So then that reaction that I'm talking about, that's calm and that's more centered, is actually starting to become my true natural reaction at a certain point, because I'm practicing, as we talked about. Dr. Rita. And sometimes it's just, man, dealing with the stresses of trying to get the record done or trying to get some business taken care of. And I'm dealing with a lot sometimes just going to do something I love. I love watching basketball. I love it. Like, I just enjoy basketball. So I'll go watch it and take my mind off things. It's listening to music that I enjoy or even sitting down, having a meal with some people I love and just being around that. Those things sometimes are just simple things that you can do. Some find something you love to just because it's not all about that situation. That ain't your whole life, that one situation. So sometimes you got to step back and step away from it for. For a moment just so you can see it in a new way and deal with it in a different way. So those are some things that I do when I'm in stressful situations, situations of anxiety and. And just know, trying to find my peace.

Yeah. You know, and it's sometimes it's the simplicity of it. All right. Like, just breathe.

Breathe.

Something that we already do. Imagine that.

Paying attention to your breath and just breathing is. Boy, it's something divine in it. You really. You kind of recognize how God is in you when you take that breath, even if that's not like. Or thinking about it when. When I breathe. But just stopping and taking that deep breath, what that has done for me in certain situations, whether heated or precious situations where I have to perform and like, I'm dealing with something. My nerves and dealing with all of those. What just taking some deep breaths have done for me is. Is phenomenal. It's tremendous.

I bet. And you also talk about therapy very, very comfortably. And of course, as a clinical psychologist, I can appreciate anyone who talks about their experience with their, with their mental health professional. At the same time, you also talk about scripture. And you know, in our community, if you're going through something people will be quick to say, just go pray about it, right? But in the book you do both. And you know, you talk about scripture, you talk about some of your favorites, including Romans 12 and 2 and being transformed by the renewing of your mind. And that's one of the ones that's also for me pretty powerful in part because it actually coincides with cognitive behavioral therapy, which is evidence based practice and paying attention to how your mind, you know, impacts your thoughts, your mood, your behavior and it's all connected. So just tell us more about, you know, scripture and how that's been impactful for you and how you talk about that in the book.

Well, I grew up, my mother had me going to church and that was, that was so beneficial to my life because it gave me a foundation in spirituality. And that church was a non denominational church. It was the Trinity United Church of Christ, which is based in Chicago. And the philosophy was unapologetically black and unashamedly Christian. So within Christianity, within the Bible, I was learning about myself through our pastor. That would make things practical and also revolutionary in many ways and was showing how, you know, Jesus as a teacher was a revolutionary and how he was going against the system in many ways to teach people how to love. And that set a foundation. And then thank God, you know, to just being a seeker. I like come have come across different spiritual practices that I've been able to learn and see that these, like whether it's Islam or Buddhism or you know, Judaism, like people are all seeking a higher power and that power within themselves. And it's love. When you practice it for real, it's love. It's a universal love that exists and just a moral code that you go by when you have that type of faith. And faith has been the thing that has allowed me to walk in the way that I walk and, and be the happiest that I can be. But faith without actions is not there. So when you talk about using spirituality for me, I started to learn and this didn't. Some of this just has been evolving as I go because I was always reading the Bible as a foundation. But now I'm learning, okay, how does do these scriptures work in my life? Like how do I use, okay, he bore our diseases and infirmities. What does that mean? Okay, that means if I know that to be truth, then that means that my body is not susceptible to diseases. And even if a, Even if a diagnosis comes back and says, you have this, if I know the word of God is truth, then I don't have to accept that as my fate. I can put into practice what God's word is and apply that and also still be applying the actions that. And the methods and the healings that God also provided. And that is, for me, integrative medicine more than anything. Meaning it could be Western and Eastern. It's just. But it's emotional healing, physical. All like, it all is connected. So me knowing that I have to apply my spirituality towards things that are practical and not just make it just so ethereal and just so, like, spacey, because I could have a tendency to be like, you know, floaty. But I grounded my scriptures into ways that I can apply. Like when it, when the Bible talks about, I will bless you immeasurably beyond what you can ask or imagine. I'm like, wait, I'm due for abundance. Abundance is mine. Like, I don't have to, like, worry about, like, okay, am I going to have these finances? I have it. God already said that. So if I believe, if I can, if it's one truth that I'm going to believe, that's going to be God's truth more than anything. So my point is just seeing those scriptures as truth for me has, has helped me to understand how to apply them more and more. And, and you know, as you know, you read things, you start to understand things more if you go over and read it again. And that's what has happened for me. And I use those scriptures to apply them to my life and to other people's lives. And, and I do believe in prayer and, and scripture, but I also believe in action, the faith, faith with deeds.

And I am convinced that sometimes therapy can help you apply what it is that you've been reading in the text.

Oh, oh, oh, yeah. That's where the renewing of your mind. God works through the therapist. If you got a good therapist that is in tune with God, God is working through the therapist. God is working through some of these doctors that are doing things in the right way. God is working through them. God is work can work through the. The homeless person that may say something to you that reminds you of who you are and that the world can be better. You know, God works through the music. I'm definitely a believer that like, God is working through my therapist for sure.

You know, one of the things that you talk about in the book was almost was a very similar experience to Something that I encountered. You talk about your experience in London and what that was like for you. And I had a very similar experience. The first and only time that I've traveled to Europe, I was in Paris, and I'd always wanted to go to Paris. And it just so happens that one day I was shopping, I was in a store, and I was getting ready to put something in my pocket. Not any of their, you know, it was my own. It was. I think it was my phone or something, I don't know. And I caught myself like, hey, what are you doing? You can't just casually put something in your pocket in a store. Because I've always been mindful of being perceived as shoplifting. And at the point when I caught myself, I realized, wow, I've been so comfortable here. I have been so at ease in this space that I thought I could just put something in my pocket. And that's what I took in part from you, your experience of being in London and realizing that you had a certain ease because you weren't anticipating violence, you weren't anticipating threats. And so maybe you could tell us a little bit more about that. And then also just recognizing that most people won't get to travel to a place where. Where they're still numerically in the minority. They won't get to experience the ease that can come with that. But it's still something that I think we all certainly deserve to have, is that kind of relaxation and being able to move about comfortably without being vigilant and on guard all the time. Because it affects us.

Yes. So, Dr. Reeva, I would call that freedom. That's true freedom. We, we profess to be free in this country and like, meaning the Constitution. And you hear American philosophy say the freest country, but human beings can't feel free, truly free, in a country where you do feel, you do have to think about putting your phone in your pocket and not being accused of stealing or that phone being put. Having a phone in your hand and being shot for it, or, you know, kids in a school having to go through, like, safety gun protocols. That is not freedom, you know, and just being able to be who you are as a human being, not harming anybody and being able to walk down the street and be who that is and going to a place and just not get treated less than, or feeling accused. That does not exist overall in America, and we can do better. Like, what I learned from being in London was like, and I'm not saying the UK don't have any issues, but the issues that we've been experiencing. I didn't feel that over there. Not to the extent of like, okay, man, somebody could actually remove me from this earth because they think I'm something or they, I've been accused of something. When you don't see police officers walking around with guns, that in itself is an amazing feeling. But then just to know other human beings just don't have. That's not a worry. Like we get into a dispute, well, this person might shoot me. Or man, we got a little road race, this person might shoot me. Like to know that those things don't exist. It's a freedom that it just happens through osmosis, through life of living in a place where guns are not strong in the culture and where prejudices are not, I guess, not as external or outward as, you know, and just not as damaging or threatening as you said to your being, to your body.

And so recognizing that, yeah, most people won't get to. Many won't get to experience that level of freedom or don't operate at that level of freedom. What recommendations do you make for folks to be able to kind of capture a little bit?

Well, I think the most important thing we can do is free ourselves. Our minds, our bodies, our souls and like that entails what I'm talking about loving and taking care of yourself and having the mentality of like, oh, I am great. I am this, this wonderful and beautiful person. And in carrying that around, when you do come across some of the negative people that do judge you or accuse you, it's like your vibration won't even lower to theirs. So it won't. They can't even take you down at a certain point. You know, it's like they can't bring you to that level because you vibrating on a whole nother higher level. And in many ways, you might even set an example and teach them something just by being present and being like, by. By being who you are and not succumbing to the negative. Because, you know, sometimes when you get accused of stuff or look, I'm just be real. I just had a situation the other yesterday where it was like I was in the gym working out and these women came up, three white women. They were. One of them knew who I was, one of them didn't. And the other one was really intoxicated. And she was talking to me, saying a lot of stuff. And I was like, who? I had to take a breath and be like, no, I'm in the middle of my little workout. And you know, she's saying all Type of stuff that I could take as like a little bit, like degrading or. But I just stayed on my vibration because I was already doing what I needed to do. I had these goals. She didn't say nothing where I had to like, just put the boundary down and let her know, like, step away. But it was to the point where I just still, I still was respectful. I listened to what she said and kept it moving. My point is like, finding your own peace and freedom and joy within yourself will help you in dealing with the foods, with the negativity, with the energy that we talked about that exists in some places in this country.

And each and every one of us can figure out what freedom looks like for us. So kind of like the big picture freedom and then the moment to moment freedom in the gym, in the stores, wherever we may be. Just recognizing how important it is to be intentional and how I appreciate that that thread runs through the entire book. And also knowing that we do need to be more intentional. Nevertheless, black men are less likely to get physical health checks to see a mental health professional. I think it's that much more profound that these messages are able to come through your book. Is that something that came to mind for you that was recognizing that there are certain groups of people, including some of my brothers, that I need to be able to help and inspire? Was that something that came to mind for you as you were working your way through your text?

That was truly one of the most significant intentions, was because I have friends who I grew up with who are very intelligent, wonderful human beings that haven't chose to practice certain things to deal with self, love and taking care of self, or haven't decided to commit to it in certain ways either. I felt, I get those calls. I get. I got a call from one of my best friends yesterday was, man, what, what should I take when I'm doing dealing with this? And not that I'm the doctor, but he understands that I've experienced certain things and use certain methods that have been healing for me and he sees it on me. So he asks. This book is for those brothers and sisters, but a lot of brothers who, who haven't had the thought about, yo, let me take care of myself, let me love myself. Who, who felt like, man, I, we don't. I ain't going to know no therapist, man, I'm, you know, man, I'm good, man, we strong. That's what we people do. Like this is for them to say, hey, I'm, hey, I'm telling you, I, I achieved Some, some great things in life, but one of the most, one of the most fulfilling and the greatest thing I've achieved is self love and working on that and growing within that and finding happiness within that. And these are the ways you could do it. You can have as much money, you can have the life partner you want, but if you don't get yourself into a place of your wholeness and your true being at your highest self as a way of life, then you'll never live the life that you've been destined to and that you've been created to. So I've written it, written in this book so that those brothers can find ways this very simple and practical. Not like, oh man, you gotta go be vegan to, to do this. Like, no, it's like, man, what do I, how do I pay attention to some of the things that I'm eating so that I could feel healthier? Oh man, I might just add a few vegetables to my meal. I might drink a green juice or like, you know, I might have some fruit in there. Eat some fruits now like what you just said, Dr. Reader. Like, you know what, instead of these chips and that don't mean you don't eat chips at some point. It's a balance, you know, it's a balance. It's just like, I mean I love my, I'm a vegan, so I love my vegan brownies and, and cookies and stuff. And you know, I like my vegan chicken at times, you know, like, so I feel like I'm aware, I'm just doing my best to, to, to love myself and care for myself in ways that I'm aware of what I'm doing. So for the, the practical dude that's just regular and ain't thought about it. Yeah. Like putting some vegetables in your meal gonna mean something. It's gonna change the way you like move in your life. You're just gonna change the way you think. Some exercise is going to help you to live longer and feel better. Some of these vegetables are anti aging anyway and they will help you prevent you from. Yeah, go get your checkup. But your doctor gonna be like, you all right? You good? I remember I had to go get, you know, the colonoscopy the, you know, and I was like putting my faith and applying my scriptures and you know, and I was grateful that it came out like, you know, things were good. It feels good to be able to go there and know that I'm contributing to that because of the way I'm taking care of myself and I think we can be preventative with a lot of the ways that we treat ourselves like preventative from diseases by, by eating some of the better foods, being, having therapy so the stress don't cause those diseases. And those are things that I want us as black men to know. Black women and people.

You know, there's so much about it that is inspiring because I think you kind of, it feels almost like the love letter where you kind of take the reader's hand and you say, okay, let me show you what I did and what you can do. And it's not overwhelming. You know, there are small steps. And so that's just so important, I think, for even our listeners to hear now as they think about the book. Tell us, you know, if you could distill one main key thing that you want to make sure that everyone who reads the book takes away from it, what would that be?

It would be that loving yourself will be the most fulfilling thing you've done in your life. And when I say loving yourself, that means man waking up in, in the morning and just thanking God for the day and communing with your higher self and with God and higher power on what you want and your intentions for the day. And then going into the day being aware like, oh, maybe I'll add some of these good things to, to my meal or I'm going take a walk. Oh shoot, I got to be at work at 9:30. I got to get up a little bit earlier so I can take this 10 minute walk. Things don't have to be like, I don't, I'll be working out for hours in the gym. I take my, you know, 45 minutes including stretching and just, and I'm out. But it, it gives me something for the day. My, my brain is functioning better. I feel better. I get that natural feel good from the endorphins, those things, some things that you do for yourself will eventually lead you to live in the happiest, the most full, the most joyful, the most productive life you can have. And that's what I want people to get from this book.

Well, this has been so enlightening. Thank you so much. Comment. I hope that everyone will go out and get their copy of and then we rise as soon as possible and we look forward to hearing more about, you know, everyone's journey and their path to getting to their highest self. Thank you again.

Thank you Dr. Reed. It's been a blessing to talk to you.