Yannis Pappas: History and Comedy | Lex Fridman Podcast #175

The following is a conversation with Giannis Pappas, a comedian who co hosted the podcast History Hyenas that I came across when I was researching the Battle of Crete from World War II. He and his co host were hilarious in their rants about history and about life. The chemistry they have is probably the best of any co hosted comedy, podcast or even podcast in general that I've ever heard. As of a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, History Hyenas is no more, at least for now, because all good things must come to an end. But Giannis hosts a new podcast called Long Days with Giannis Pappas. Plus he has a comedy special on YouTube for free. Quick mention of our sponsors, Wine Access, Blinkist, Magic Spoon and indeed check them out. You in the description to support this podcast. As a side note, let me say that some of you have noticed that I have not spoken with too many computer scientists, physicists, biologists or engineers recently. The reason has to do mostly with the risk aversion of many of these folks in the time of COVID especially as they get closer to taking the vaccine. I'm tested several times a week and still some people are just more willing than others to have an and in person conversation in these times. I only do these podcasts in person because I look for the possibility of a genuine human connection. I'm willing to sacrifice a lot for that. Maybe it's silly, but I look for the magic that Charles Bukowski writes about in his poem Nirvana. The magic that is somehow in the air on those rare occasions when two people meet, talk and you notice that while on the surface you may be worlds apart from, you're still somehow woven from the same fabric. I've had that with many guests. Jim Keller comes to mind, but many others as well. I'm an AI person. Machine learning, robotics, computer science is my passion. Trust me. I can't wait to be having more technical conversations again. But I will also continue to mix in comedians, musicians, historians, and of course wise all seeing sages like Giannis Pappas and Tim Dillon. Just to keep it, as Tim likes to say, fun. This is the Lex Friedman podcast and here is my conversation with Giannis Pappas.

You've co hosted until recently an amazing history comedy podcast called the History Hyenas. So you're a bit of a student of history?

Yeah. An F student of history.

F student, yeah. Okay. I thought it was more like a D minus.

D minus? Yeah. Okay, so still got to repeat the grade if you get all D minuses. I actually had a 0.6, 7 GPA average my freshman year, and I had.

To do it again.

This is. This podcast is going to be the spectrum of human intelligence. It runs the gamut from there to here.

So this is going to set the low bar.

I'm barely sliding into human. I'm closer to chimp.

And I bring that up that you're also friends with the great, the powerful Tim Dillon. So let's talk about power and the corrupting effects of power. Sometimes I look at Tim Dillon as he grows in power.

Oh, I thought you meant he's in size.

Well, size, I think they're correlated.

Yeah, I saw him. I've been in Austin a couple days. I saw him once. We had eight meals in one day.

Eight meals?

Yeah. So I feel like I've been here longer than I have just because of the meals with Dylan. Kid likes biscuits and barbecue.

Okay, so he's more like. See, I was. I was imagining Putin or something like that. He's more like the North Korean dictator.

Yeah.

All right.

They get along great, those two. Yeah, they would get. I mean, Tim Dillon and King Jong Un would be like. They could make, like, a buddy cop movie. They would get along like Lethal Weapon. That would be a good pitch movie.

Great podcast.

Yeah, that would be a great podcast.

Yeah. So much to talk about. So many similar ideas about the world. So what do you think the world would look like if Tim Dillon was given absolute power? He seems like a person. That's an interesting study of the corrupting effects of power.

Yeah. You don't want to give him power. You don't want. I don't even want him wearing a suit. Like, I want a guy who's as thoughtful and educated as you wearing a suit. Like. Cause, you know, suits corrupt you. You put that suit on, you start feeling that power.

Definitely.

It's like, you know. Yeah, I don't even want Tim Dillon in his suit. Power would. He would kill people. He'd get rid of anything that he deemed. I mean, if you made a lobster roll and it wasn't up to Tim Dillon's standard, he would have you executed.

The entire restaurant staff is just gone.

He would have people below his food standard executed. There'd be programs not of people who are political dissidents, but of people who don't meet his food standard. His cuisine standard is high, and he's usually right.

Do you think power does corrupt people?

Yes.

Like, one of the reasons we mentioned offline Joe Rogan. He's been an inspiration to me because he gets. He gets. If you get Power, just more famous and famous and yes, probably a bit of power in terms of influence. And he's still pretty much the same guy. I'm not sure that's going to be true for everybody. Do you ever think. Ask yourself with that question.

Yeah, he's a rare breed. He's like a benign king. Most people I meet who are like really powerful are like douchebags. And that's how they got there. I think that's. Psychopaths have the advantage because they don't have feelings. And. And Joe's a rare example. He's just a powerhouse of will and he. I do think about that. Yeah. I think I should be stopped right now. Just stop me right now because, yeah, power for me, I would. When people get power, they indulge. I don't think it changes anyone. It just reveals your darkest. You know, people aren't supposed to have anything they want. You got to be able to struggle for everything. So I would have a harem. I'd be like a Roman dictator.

Yeah.

I'd be like a Roman emperor. I mean, people call them emperors. They were dictators. The most effective leaders are dictators. I. I hope we get back to that. Democracy hasn't worked. I'm ready for a secession of Caesars and I wanna start with aoc.

That's true. Dictators get the job done.

They do, they do. At certain point you got. That's why social workers can only get you so far. You need action. I was a social worker for five years and all you do is ask about medications and you don't solve anything.

I do ask myself of that. Like. Cause I'm more in the tech space of constructing systems that prevent me from being corrupt. Because right now I'm all about love and all about those kinds of things. But I wonder, you said, like, it just reveals the darkness. The problem is we might not be aware of our own darkness. I have the same feeling about money. Actually, I've been avoiding thinking about money. Like basically constructing my moral system, my moral compass around money. So, like, the moment I feel a little too happy, but about the idea of owning some cool shiny thing, I started to think, okay, I'm not going to own that shiny thing because I'm afraid of the slippery slope of it. Yeah. You ever think about that kind of stuff?

Yeah. The funny thing about our. The capitalist system is it's, it's. It puts sort of profit motive above beauty. And you notice when you see certain cities, especially in the old days, where, like, buildings used to be beautiful.

Yeah.

And now they're just like boxes. They throw a kid up and it's just for all profit margin. It's. It's the illusion of permanence that, you know, it's like, oh, let me get as much money as I can. You're like, yeah, you know, my dad used to say, you know everyone. It's a cliche, but you can't take it with you. So it's kind of. It's comical to me that we're here trying to get this infinite amount like they were. It's like Sisyphus. We're all trying to climb this hill, but, I mean, the rock's going to fall on us. So I think that's a healthy outlook.

Yeah.

My dad always used to say before he passed, you know, he would say, you can't. You have to survive, not only physically, but you have to survive emotionally. I think a lot of people forget about the emotional part of survival. You have to survive emotionally. And humor and.

And.

And understanding reality in its objective context helps with that. Accepting reality as this ephemeral thing that you're in, really just a part of, but not as significant as your ego wants you to believe is. That is a start. That's a good foundation for surviving emotionally.

What. What's that mean, surviving emotionally? Like, what. What's an ideal life look like for you?

You can't take things too seriously. You can't, because they're ephemeral. They're. They're not permanent. Nothing's permanent. Your bank account's not permanent. Your problems aren't permanent. Nothing's permanent.

You.

Your abilities aren't permanent. Your memory's not permanent. Your dick getting hard is not permanent. Can I curse on this, or is this go out to jail?

You can curse to your heart's content.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, gender's not even permanent anymore. I think I'm going to change maybe and live my second half as another gender just to have. I'm bored with this gender. So it's like nothing is permanent. And so accepting that emotionally is a good start to being more flexible. You got to be flexible. Like my dad used to say, anything too stiff, snaps, you got to. You know, it's a cliche, and people have said it a bunch of different ways, but Bruce Lee's right, man. Be water. Be water. Yeah.

Bukovsky has this quote about love, that love is a fog that fades with the first light of reality. So he's a romantic, that guy. But that even love is a thing that just doesn't last very long. No, you know, some people would disagree with that. Maybe it morphs like.

Like.

Like water. It changes. Right. It might not be. It might not be this. Because he's mostly just loved like prostitutes, I think. So hit.

What's kind of love?

Yeah.

No demand, no responsibilities.

Yeah. It's a financial transaction.

Yeah.

Ephemeral as ever. You mentioned your dad. He passed away 2. A year and a half ago. Yeah. What did you learn from him?

I love my dad. My dad. I would say my dad was my. My hero. He was just. My dad really embodied those values. And I think, for better or worse, it's made me who I am.

He's. He.

My dad was a painter. He was a lawyer. He was. He was a, you know, a lieutenant in the military.

New Yorker.

New Yorker, born and bred. Brooklyn. His dad. His dad, you know, surprise. Owned a diner. So that's. That's sort of the Greek passport. That's the immigration passport for Greeks into America. And. Yeah, my dad played football. He just. My dad did what he wanted. He lived as he wanted at all costs. And I think I got that from him. For better or worse. I think it's hurt me in my pursuits if you consider money and fame to be paramount. You know, I've always done what I wanted, and if I stopped wanting to do it, I just stopped doing it. I think I got that from my dad. So maybe for better or worse, that's what I learned from him. But that's a real currency, you know, Feeling like you're in love with what you're doing when you're doing it. Maybe. Perhaps that's worth more than money. I don't know.

You miss him?

Yeah, every day. Every day. But I'm happy that he. He got 91 years. It's very rare. I mean, he smoked for 60 years. Talk about like a guy who was an outlier. I mean, he smoked like 60 years. Like packs. I mean.

Yeah.

And he didn't die from that. He died. He had prostate cancer, which is the way men should go. Your dick should give out. It should start from the dick. I mean, we focus so much of our life on the dick.

Yeah.

That. That's the way that's a successful life. And that's why every man eventually gets prostate cancer. Because that is the universe's way of saying, like, the thing you focused on the most is you put the most energy into is the thing that's spent. And it's gonna. Your. Your rotting is gonna start there. So that's a successful life. And it just spread all over his Body. And he slowly died. I was with him when he died. And that meant a lot to me because me and my brother weren't talking at the time. Because we're Greeks, we're talking again. But that's how it is.

You got a few brothers, right?

I got two brothers. But I wanted to make sure I was with him when he died. And I got lucky, and I was in the room with him when he died.

You were in the room with your brother and you weren't.

No, my brother wasn't there. We were kind of doing shifts. I was there. I spent the night. The night my dad died, he died early in the morning. And I heard the death right of the last breath. And it was just. I think it was. He knew I was there. And I think that just probably meant something to him. And I'm just glad I was there.

Does that make you sad, that life.

Is ephemeral, like you said, that you die?

Yeah.

What do you think about your own death? You meditate on that.

I think the actual. If there is a point to life, it's to hopefully not fear death, to accept reality. I think that's important. I think so much goes awry in the human condition when we lose touch with reality. Every political system that's led to mass murder and everything, I think because it's. Because the tenets of those political philosophies ended up being utopian. They were detached from reality, detached from nature. And so I think it's very important to accept and acknowledge your own mortality. I think it's the foundation for what makes a good person, a moral person, a contributing member of society. Because it's true. True things should be the foundation of all things. If what you believe is based on illusion, you're going to end up doing destruction. Whether that destruction's on a scale of 1 to 10, you are going to be destructive because it's not real. It's a fantasy. It doesn't exist.

See, the thing is, the truth is about. I don't think you can ever reach truth. Truth is about, like, constantly digging and to push back on your idea that you should accept death. I think the more honest response to death, so the least honest is to run away from it. Create illusions that help you imagine that there's not a death. The next is to accept it. But the real honest one is to fear it. Because, I mean, I'm with Ernest Becker, who's a philosopher who wrote a book called Denial of Death. He says that much of the human condition is based in the fear of Mortality that we like, that's the creative force of the human energy. Like Freud said, do you want to sleep with your mother? He said, no, that's not what motivates you.

Maybe his mom wasn't hot, though. I mean, or he wasn't Greek, because apparently oedipal. We found that all things good and bad.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for that. Thanks.

I just don't know if his mom was a looker or not. I mean, I'd have to Google it.

All right, yeah, I'll look up on Google Images.

Yeah.

No, but I think that, honest as he says, the thing that we run away from is that there's a terror. He calls it like, terror. There's something called terror management theory that some philosophers after him followed on that were basically trying to run away from. This fear and acceptance is actually creating an illusion for yourself. Like you can actually accept something as terrifying as this. So he's more with the stoics. The Stoic constantly meditate on their death. I mean, they. What does that mean? That means kind of it's, you know, acceptance of death isn't a thing you do like on a Monday and then you're done. Is a thing you constantly have to meditate on. Like reminding yourself like, this ride is over. It could be over today. And that's something you're. If you think about every single day.

It gives you an appreciation of Woody Allen movies, at least.

It gives you appreciation basically everything, including Woody Allen movies, which shows you how deep your appreciation for life could be. I've actually haven't been following much about what Woody Allen's. But apparently he's been a troublemaker through most of his life. He's.

Yeah, I mean, you know, he's caused a little bit of strife. He's left a little. Yeah, he's left a little confusion in his wake for sure. But I mean, you know, that's another one. Separate the art from the artist he's got. I mean, the guy's will go down in history as the greatest he's made. I mean, a movie a year and they're all. You can always find something good about each movie, like the dialogue or whatever. I love what you're saying. It's interesting. But the only thing I would say to push back a little bit since we're playing a little table tennis here.

Yeah.

Is I don't know if it's a choice to fear death. That's more of an. It seems more instinctual. It seems like something that nature wants you to do because I've Been in positions where I thought I was going to die. Like I've been to trying, shot. And I had those moments. And then nature also, you know, kicks in. An instinct, which is acceptance, where you kind of. I don't know, it's a chemical release or whatever. I don't know. You know, we're all. We're robots, basically. So some sort of chemical is released that protects you. But there is an acceptance. I don't know how much of it was a conscious choice. Probably very little. And that's the point I'm making is it's, it's instinctual. We don't really have a choice in fearing death. Otherwise there would be no progression. We wouldn't. All life seems to want to survive not by choice, but by instinct.

So he argues that the fear is not the instinctual. It's not the animalistic stuff. That's the thing that makes us special is the. What humans are able to do is to have a knowledge that we're going to die one day. Animals don't have that. Animals fear is instinctual. It's like, holy shit, what's that sound over there? He says we're actually able to contemplate the fact that this ride ends and that that kind of cognitive construct is difficult for us to deal with. Like, what the hell does that mean? Like, just, just to think about is going to be over. At a certain point, it's just over, lights out. Like, it's very difficult to kind of load that into whatever this, like, little brain we got. Like, what does that actually mean?

Maybe that's what gives everything meaning. Yeah, because if everything lasted forever, if, if this went on ad infinitum, there would be no meaning to it. I'd be like, hey, if I don't see tomorrow, I'll see in a million years. Yeah, there would be no meaning. There'll be no urgency. There would be no feelings. There'd be no. Nothing of magnitude or superficiality. It would all just be this kind of. It would be torture. It would actually. That would actually be torture to be here forever. I mean, I'm already sick of this place. And I'm just in my 40s. Like, I'm done. I'm sick of me. I'm sick of everything.

You know, a lot of people, when they talk about immortality, they consider. They consider mortality appealing because you get a chance to do basically all these things you might not get a chance to do otherwise. Like all the kinds of travel, broadly explore, read every book, explore every idea, do every hobby. All those kinds of things somebody else I was talking to mentioned the reality of being immortal would be more likely. I like this idea. More likely would be you just sitting there doing nothing because. And putting off all that travel and exploration till later, because you'll always have time. And so what you're going to have, what actual immortality will look like for a bunch of humans is people sitting there doing nothing.

It'll be like a Greek caffeinea, just sitting around drinking coffee, watching. I love it.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a lazy man's paradise. Yeah.

But it's so interesting because that, That's. That rings true to me for what humans are like is we'll basically just put off all those exciting adventures and just be lazy. Become lazier and lazier and lazier because you'll always have a chance to do all the exciting things. And we'll just get. Will basically become Tim Dillon. We just sit there and have a podcast and that's it.

He works hard. Yeah. I mean, that sounds actually like heaven, dude. That's speaking of my heart. Really. I mean, I'm at heart. I'm a very lazy person. I always try to find ways to lie down. Like, if I'm sitting, I'll figure out a way to kind of contort myself to later. That's an interesting thing to like in. Yeah. If you can always push something off. Yeah, that. I like that. I. I think that's heaven and.

See, we just changed your mind. You kind of like the immortality.

Yeah, I kind of like it. No. So there'll be no thirsts. No, you can always put it off. Hey, I want to. I want to. I want to have. I want to bang this girl. You're like, I'll put it off. But now I'm thinking about Muslim heaven, and they may be offering the best deal. I mean, if it was an expo and they had a booth, I may go with them because they offer. They offer 62 or 72, but then I'd get sick of them. I'd want to. I don't know. I always wondered, like, are you given the 62 versions or do you choose? Can you create them like an avatar, like a video game, or are you just given.

I don't know what the nump. Why it's important to have that high number. First of all, I think it's a mistranslation about the virgins. But outside of that. Outside of that, I feel like the conversation is really important. I. I don't think they ever specify, like, what kind of books these girls read. Like, what are they? What are they into? Like is, you know, the quality of the conversation. I think if you're talking about eternity, the quality of the intellect and the conversation and the personalities is way more important.

And the Greeks have an ancient, ancient expression which my mother always used to say, which is everything in moderation, nothing in excess. So try and always get the status quo. And yeah, that many women, eventually, it's like the Magic Johnson effect, Isaiah, Thomas effect. It's just too much and you're going to end up. You're going to end up banging a dude is what I'm saying. You, you're going to get sick of it because it's too much. And there's going to be a eunuch that finds its way into your harem. That's been proven throughout history, every empire, when you have all that power. And again, this goes back to power corrupting. If you have. If there's no struggle, there's no meaning. There's. The value is from the journey, the working hard to struggle. And if it's just given to you because you're a sultan or you're Alexander the Great or whatever, you're going to get bored and you're going to bang a dude. That's, it's. I think that's a scientific axiom, actually. Eventually you'll get bored and bang a dude.

Yeah. But I think it won't stop there. I think you'll go to animals, you'll go to robot. I mean, eventually it all ends up in robots and then the robots rebel and then the humans will be destroyed. Yeah. I'm sorry if we're speaking truth. You said the value of life, one of the highest ideals is to seek truth. I think if we're being.

Can I ask you a quick question? If you live in a small. I come from small islands. Right. And so there's a stereotype that that's where they bang animals. But if you come from a very small.

Yes.

You know, an island or something, and you have the choice of banging a family member or an animal, which one is worse on the moral scale because you're technically not related to the animal.

Right. This is interesting. I mean, all of these are human constructs, these ideas, but yet for me, personally, taboo. Would be more taboo to have sex with a family member. Yeah, I mean, animal. I mean.

Okay, it's good to know where you stand on that. I think your viewers, you know, if they didn't have. They didn't know they had that question. I just, they just learned a little bit about you. And now I know.

I look forward to the Internet clipping that. Yeah. I mean, there. There is. Listen in some. Outside. Outside of that, I do think about that a lot. Sounds ridiculous about morality connected to animals in terms of all the. The. The factory farming and so on. It seems like that's one of the things we'll look. Because I love meat, but I kind of feel bad about it and. And bad in a way where I think if we look like 100 years from now, we'll look back at this time as, like, one of the great, like, tortures and injustices that we humans have committed. And, I mean, all that has to do with the sex of the animal has to do with consent and about the experience of suffering of animals. The reason I think about that personally a lot, because I think about robotics. I think about creating artificial consciousnesses, artificial, like, beings that have some elements of the human nature. And then you start to think like, well, what does it mean to suffer? What does it mean for entity to exist such that it deserves rights? This is something that the founding fathers were thinking about, like, you know, all men are created equal. What is it which. Who is included in the men? Who. Who's not in that. In that sentence? And our animals included in that are robots. I honestly think that there will be a civil rights movement for robots in the future. I don't know.

Is that the Turing Test, the way you try to. Is that what they call it, where you're trying to see if I can think like a human or whatever, or feel like a human?

Well, the Turing Test, closely defined, is more about talk like a human. So you can. You can imagine systems that are able to. You can have a conversation like this, and I would be a robot, for example, but that doesn't mean I would. In the. In society. That doesn't mean I deserve rights or that doesn't mean I would be conscious. It doesn't mean that I would be able to suffer and to experience pleasure and dream and all those kinds of human things. The question isn't whether you're able to talk, which is passing the Turing Test. The question is whether you're able to feel, to be. I mean, I go back to suffering. The thing that the. That our documents protect us against is suffering. Like, we don't want humans to suffer. And if a robot can suffer, that discussion starts being about, like, well, shouldn't we protect them? Currently, we don't protect animals.

We protect that dog. There's laws. There's actual legislation that protects dogs for torture places yeah. And you know what? Dogs is something I don't think people really understand enough about. It's one of my obsessions. So they, they. My dad always used to say, he goes, those things are. Those things are basically human. And I mean, they dream, they have anxiety. And what people often overlook about dogs is without dogs, we wouldn't be here. We would not have ever evolved from hunter gatherer to agrarian to, you know, civilization. We wouldn't have cities, we wouldn't have anything. I mean, they are our partner in survival and they are a magical animal. There's no. There's no animal that was. It was like destiny almost. I mean, a malleable animal. There's no animal that's that malleable that in a few generations you can tailor to a specific job that you need. And without that animal, without dogs doing that animal, protecting our crops from. From, you know, scavengers and stuff like that, you know, the list goes on. We wouldn't be here. So we. That's an often overlooked fact that human evolution was not done in a vacuum just with humans. I mean, without dogs, we would have never evolved. I mean, we weren't the apex predator for most of our existence. We weren't even the apex predator. I mean, we're getting eaten by hyenas, which my favorite animal. And, you know, that's kind of an injustice to. I mean, I'm kind of mad at. Dogs die. We deserve to get eaten by hyenas, but without dogs, we wouldn't be here. And dogs, Dogs deserve the protection. So do horses. They fucking lugged us around for thousands of years and now these fucking German psychopaths are eating them or whatever. We should not eat horse meat. Just on, like, be a good dude, man. These things lugged us around for generations. They're beautiful, you know, Ride them or. I don't know. I don't know. But it rubs me the wrong way that we eat horses.

Yeah, the horses one is interesting. And one of my favorite books is Animal Farm by Orwell. And the horses don't get a good ending in that. I kind of. My spirit animal, I suppose, is the horse from Animal Farm Boxer, where he says, I will work harder. That's his motto. I. I work really hard at stupid things. That's. That's basically what I just hit my head against the wall for no reason whatsoever.

But that probably fulfills. You have a big brain. You were probably born with a big.

Brain that kind of fulfills killing neurons.

It's exercise for you.

Yes.

Don't you think? Some animals deserve to be eaten, though.

Kind of like hyenas.

Come on, dude. I mean, you gotta respect the hyena.

Okay, so let's look, first of all, let me just comment on the dog thing. There is like conferences on dog cognition from a perspective of people that study psychology, cognitive science, neuroscience. Dogs are fascinating.

The way they move their eyes.

They're able to. They're the only other animal besides humans. They're able to communicate with their eyes. They can look at a thing and look back at you and look back at thing to communicate that we're all like, through our eyes, communicate that we're collaborating. So every other animal uses their eyes to actually look at things. The dogs use it to communicate with us humans. It's fascinating. There's a lot of other elements of dogs that are amazing.

Yeah. I mean, if it wasn't for them. They're the ones. They were our first alarm system for predators. They would defend us. I mean, the Basenji is one of the most ancient dogs. I mean, they're tiny, but they're fake fearless.

Yeah.

And they would chase off lions, like, you know, there'd be packs of them and they'd chase off lions and protect the tribes. It's, it's, it's. I even get tingles, like, thinking about dogs, because I, I have a dog. I love my dog. It's just. And there's something about when you're walking with your dog off leash in the woods, it, like there's something about it that's like that, that tugs at that millions of years of evolution, like that gut, you know, it's like. I had a Finnish friend of mine, he's a comic, Tommy Vallamy's once told me, he was like, he was like the gut. He's like, I believe in like that gut, you know, when you have that feeling. He's like, always trust that because that is million. Those are all your ancestors. That's the survival instinct of all your ancestors at the beginning of time, you know, telling you, like, hey, something's off here. Something's, you know, so don't get in the car with Ted Bundy is what I'm saying. Ladies. How fucking stupid. Who, how can you fall for that? You know, he's got a fucking sling on. Don't get in.

Yeah. Follow the gut.

My question to you are psychopaths, essentially robots.

So first of all, let's not. You're using the word robot in a derogatory way that I feel I'm triggered by. Okay, yeah. And you should Be offended.

You should be. Because you know what? People are always scared of robots. But I actually. I've made it to. Hey. I thought about it, like, robots have been nothing but helpful. It's the people we should be scared of. Again, we're kind of missing the most destructive thing is us. Because. But robots are helpful. I mean, this is a fucking robot. You know, I went on hotel tonight. I'm already booked up. You know, I got my. I can change my flight if this barbecue with Rogan goes 16 hours, which whatever Rogan wants to do, I'll do. If he wants to kick me in the chest, I'll let him kick me in the chest. Whatever. Robots are helpful.

No.

Yeah. Tanks and autonomous weapons systems don't kill people. People kill people. People kill people. Yeah, that's.

Yeah, the NRA's about to click that for you.

A lot of love for dogs. I appreciate it very much. And at the same time, you have the other thing that people seem to have love for, which is cats. And on the flip side of everything you've said, I'm trying to understand, what have cats ever done for human civilization?

They keep rodents away. The domesticated cat is very important. Keeps rodents away. Yeah, that's what they were domesticated for. I mean, they're psychopathic killers who end up killing innocent neighborhood chipmunks and birds. They really affect the balance of the local ecosystem.

But if you look for cats, too.

Not as much as dogs. I mean, dogs are, like you said, they look at humans. I actually read an article there. Some people were theorizing they're smarter than chimps because of the way they can work with humans. And there was one border Collie that spoke 300 words, like a quarter, like a length, almost part of the language. And their nose is like a mat. I mean, that's like magic. Dude. If you can smell in my ass to what I had for breakfast from miles away, that's intelligent. That's intelligence. I mean, in some ways, that their nose, if you were to put it on a scale, maybe their nose is more intelligent than our brain for what it does. You know, it's like. I mean, dude, they can smell you from miles away. You ever see a dog just, like, sniffing, catching. I mean, it's smelling like. I don't remember the date on it, but it's like they have, like, millions of receptors or something where we only, you know, thank God we. We don't have their nose. That would be. That would make sex weird. Be a little too intense.

I think you mentioned when you Were talking about Woody Allen separating the, the art from the artist. So that brings to mind Vladimir Putin. How about that transition? I don't know. I'm so sorry. But if, if you look at just powerful leaders throughout history, Stalin, Hitler, but even modern ones like Putin, and we're talking about power, how do you explain them? You said that power reveals, not corrupts. But do you think there's some element to which power corrupted Hitler? Power corrupted Stalin after he gained power. And the same with Putin. When Putin gained power in 2000, do you think the amount of power that he was in possession with for many years, do you think that corrupted him? I mean, we're joking about dictators get the job done. There is some sense in certain countries where dictator is the only thing that can stabilize a nation. The counter argument to that for democracies is like, yeah, but that's a short term solution for a long term problem. So you want to embrace chaos of democracy. That might be violent. There might be a lot of just constant changing of leadership. There might be a lot of corruption in the short term. But if you stay strong with.

With.

The ideals of democracy, then you'll be ultimately create something that as beautiful and stable as the United States.

The sad thing is, I don't know if history tells that story. Like I said, you look at Greece, you look at Rome, democracy kind of failed. The majority of Rome, the most successful empire that we've had was a dictatorship for most of its run. But I do believe in a republic, which is sort of a limited democracy. I do believe in what we have here. I believe in common law.

I believe.

In individual rights. But yeah, I think you said it. Nobody could have said it better. Yeah, it's a short term solution. You look at Saddam Hussein, he kind of, you know, when we took him out then there was a lot of infighting that happened that he was kind of keeping at bay because he was a strong man. Dictator.

Well, he's an interesting one. Sorry to interrupt. From my understanding, I'm sure people will correct me, but when Saddam Hussein first came to power, he was, he's quite progressive. So like the dict, the. As far as I understand, the signs of an evil dictator weren't exactly there.

So again, there's, I don't know if.

Power revealed a power corrupted or that.

Could have been the initial subterfuge to kind of get everybody. You know, Hitler also is a champion of the people. It's built some new roads. It's what psychopaths do. And that's why it's interesting to me. I'm not sure if power corrupts psychopaths. And now that we know that we can do these CAT scans and brain scans, we know that they're born that way. Power definitely corrupts people who have the capacity to feel and for empathy. Power. I'm not sure. I don't think power corrupts people who were born psychopathic with that condition or sociopaths who had. Who you know, who were closer to psychopath and then had some traumatic life. You know, I just think, you know, the best way to get away with whatever nefarious thing you want to do to feel. I guess the only thing psychopaths can feel is that excitement is to pretend to be the opposite of what you are. Yeah, that's what, that's what killers do. That's what the worst people look at Bill Cosby, I mean, he was. What better way to hide? You know, it's like what wokeness is now. It's like, I'm such a great person. And they. You're like, are you. It's a great. The best way to hide is to pretend to be the opposite of what you are. Just like Ted Bundy. I'm. I'm just an innocent, helpful guy. And then boom, Next thing you know, you're getting your tip bit off.

It's really well said. It's. It's actually kind of funny because I talk about love a lot and I think the people that kind of look at me with squinty eyes, they wonder like, how many bodies are in that closet? You know what I mean? Like, there's something about the duality of, like, we're so skeptical as a culture. Like, if somebody is just like. Seems to be kind of sort of, I don't know, positive and all that kind of, you know, how do I put it? Just simple. Simple minded. In the positivity they express, they think like, there's some demons in there.

Yeah. Especially if you're in New York. Or we don't trust. And the nicer you are, the more skeptical we are. Yeah, I've struggled with that down here. I've been like, what's your angle? And they're like, not, dude, just. I wanted to show you the best tacos, man. And I'm like, did you really? What do you want? Because in New York, it's like, if anyone's nice to you, they want something.

Yeah.

And that's. That's the pro side to that, is it makes you very street smart. The downside to that is it makes you to want Way too cynical.

Yeah, I definitely experienced that here in Texas. But people are super, super nice and they're like, do all this cool for you and you wonder what, what, what's the angle? Yeah, what are we doing here? You mentioned hyenas is your favorite animal. I forgot to ask you, what the hell were you thinking? Why is hyenas your favorite animal?

Yeah, it's fascinating animal.

And let's look at the whole animal kingdom. Like why is it, where do you put. So you like dogs?

Love my favorite.

Your favorite is dogs, but they're kind of outside the animal kingdom because you're thinking about wolves. So the animal kingdom is in nature. Dogs escaped nature. They kind of did. Yeah. Together with humans. Like in a collaborative way. Exactly. So within nature, within the animal kingdom. What? Who's. Why not lions?

Because lions are predictable. Lions are just, you know, they're regal and kind of. They bore me. It's like the hot chick. It's like, we get it. You were born the best.

Yeah.

You know, I like a scrappy. By any means necessary. Intelligent and cunning.

But aren't they dishonest?

Yeah. And that's why I like them. Yes, they're dishonest. They employ chicanery. They, they're. And that's just a sign of how intelligent they are and how self reliant they are and how brutal they are. They're brutally honest in how much they lie.

Yeah.

You know, because it's just, they're trying to get the job done. You know, lions are just like, they're, they're too gifted. Everyone hates the fucking. You know, if I went to school with you, I'd be like, of course Lex knows the fucking answer. Lex was born smarter than me, you know, and you'd probably hate me because I was the kid always seeking attention and making people. It's like, that's not interesting. The guy that claws his way to the top. And those are hyenas. They're also fascinating just by merely who they are. I mean, they're not related to any other animal. They're more closely related to cats than they are dogs. Even though they look more like a dog. Yeah, they're. But they're very like very tangentially related even to cats. So they're their own kind of thing. Which is kind of mysterious. I don't think they fully figured out. And they. This pseudo penis thing is the, Is the.

I mean, can you explain the pseudo penis?

Yeah, so the. It's a matriarchal society, by the way, so that's unique. In and of itself that this we're talking about an apex predator that is matriarchal, much like, you know, the praying mantis. It's very rare, though, and they are fucking brutal and.