The Exit Engine Podcast Episode 35: Ryan Provost & Norman Strobel on the Booz Box Phenomena!

Welcome to the Exit Engine Podcast, episode 35. Everybody, welcome today to an extra special version of the Exit Engine Podcast. My name is Joe Stapleton, your host, one of the hosts of ExitEngine Podcast. Jon can't be with us today, but I'm here and I've got a couple of very, very special guests. Today, I'm going to be joined by Norman Strobel and Ryan Provost, who are the founders of a company called BoozeBox. BoozeBox is a ready-to-drink cocktail company that is really making strides in this $13 billion industry. And we wanted to talk to— we thought everybody out there might want to know a little bit more about BoozeBox today and about the founders. So, guys, welcome to ExitEngine. Awesome to have you here today.

Hey, Joe. Thanks for having us.

Awesome. So, Norm, I'm going to jump in with you, okay? Because Norman is the mixologist here, okay? Norman's the guy who has come up with the flavor profile, the taste of this thing. Tell us a little bit about what inspired to figure out this cocktail thing and then put it in a box.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So as a mixologist and, uh, you know, cocktail background, um, um, during the pandemic, pretty much me and Ryan were sitting around and I was actually making cocktails and, uh, we were stuck in the house. I was making cocktails and we were, um, accompanied by a group of girls that were drinking the boxed wines. And I kind of came up with the idea while I'm sitting there making cocktails and I'm looking at the boxed wine. I'm like, well, right, why don't, why don't we put my recipes in these boxes? And it literally came about right there on the spot. We came up with a name within like the first hour, like Booze Box, you know? And, uh, yeah, 4 years later it's a real thing.

That's amazing, right? Isn't that crazy that that happens? Like, this is the, this is the kind of guys, this is the kind of stuff that happens out there, right? It's a matter of you, you kind of like, you, you didn't, you didn't start that evening trying to think of a new business you could have, right?

Right.

It just kind of like popped up like organically.

Yeah. It kind of just happened randomly.

Yeah, Ryan, so tell me what, again, when you guys came up with this thing, what was the kind of sentiment in the room at the time when you came up with it?

Yeah, I mean, it was pretty calm, pretty relaxed. You know, like we mentioned before, we didn't really have any, you know, there was no idea or any real kind of notion to get a business going, but it kind of just happened naturally. You know, like Norm said, he was making cocktails and we decided to just, you know, put put cocktails, his cocktails in a box. And, you know, that's kind of just how we landed on it. Um, yeah, super natural, super, super organic. And, you know, the flavors, um, kind of just came about from Norman's recipe book, uh, some of his top flavors that he had that he worked with restaurants on. Um, and, and yeah, you know, the name, uh, you know, came about in a couple hours. You know, we did, we used Google for that. So, you know, that was super helpful to get that name Booze Box all in order, nice and simple. Along with the logo, made a quick Photoshop template and put it together in Photoshop within an hour or 2. And, you know, we all landed on the design of what you see now on the app right here.

Well, here's what's incredible to me, okay? And this is— we see, we hear this stuff all the time, you know, because we talk with so many founders. But I think what a lot of people don't really realize is that everybody kind of thinks they're the only person who kind of fell backwards into a business, right? And now they've suddenly got a business. But the reality is it sounds like You guys weren't headed into a business, right? You guys actually had the idea and then said, hey, this might be a business we can do. What gave you the confidence to think that you guys could do this?

I think that just being where we were at the time and just being what we've been through, we've kind of always been interested in just business in general and kind of just wanting to do something. I think I could speak for Norman on that too. Like, we've always been, been interested in doing something together. So, uh, you know, I think that we kind of just landed on, you know, like, we kind of just figured that that Boost Box would be the thing. Like, all right, this is it, this is our calling, you know, this is, this is what we were meant to do, so let's just run with it. And that's kind of—

Always wanted to go in business with something, um, but this one, I mean, at first we thought we were reinventing the wheel, but then when we got in the space, we realized that this is a very saturated market, but I mean, even the name being available was pretty crazy, you know, Booze Box. Like, we still take pride in that, that we, you know, we founded it. So it's great.

Right. So, so the reality— so it sounds like— so you guys were like, well, you know, I think we can have a business together doing something, right?

Right.

And basically, so it was just this kind of like spontaneously generated and you were just like, okay, maybe this is it. So this is, as you mentioned, this is a really hard business to break into, right? This is not— this is a capital-intensive business. Right. There's a lot of stuff that you have to be able to bring to the table. And it's not like you guys had— I mean, Norman, what's your background? I mean, you come out of the hospitality industry, right? But tell me a little bit about your background and where you kind of come from. And then— Yeah.

So I'm born and raised in the small state of Rhode Island. And literally right out of high school, I started bartending at 18 years old. I was in the restaurant industry. Right away. Um, 36 now, so I've been, I've been behind the bar and making cocktails for 18 years, so half my life. And, um, yeah, so I moved out to New Jersey, um, after, you know, Ryan graduated college at URI. That's how I met, uh, so I met Provost. But we moved out to Hoboken, New Jersey, and I was in the scene of, you know, doing mixology in New York City and doing competitions and all that type of stuff. And And then, um, started working in Hoboken and then opened a restaurant in Jersey City. And, um, yeah, really, really made a name for myself in the, in the cocktail world, um, over there in Jersey City. Um, definitely made an impact with the whole, like, you know, competition world. I won first place, like, I don't even know, a dozen times. Um, yeah, it's pretty much what I'm— I'm still doing it. I still bartend on the weekends while running this company.

That's awesome. Ryan, what about you? Because I mean, you didn't have the same kind of cocktail background as Norman did, right?

No, no. But it's funny, I never really mentioned this at all to anybody, but I actually did start off in the restaurant industry back when I was in college. I started off as a barback and I started bartending a little bit, but I don't really say that a lot because, you know, Norman's the mixologist, he's the bartender. So I let him go with it. But I do— I did do barback and bartending for about, about a year. When I was in college, and I was just ending college too, just finishing up URI. I think I was there for my last summer. I was barbacking at— I think it was Coast Guard House.

Coast Guard House, I remember you were on the rooftop.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, with, uh, Brandon Johnson and, and those guys. Yeah, but, uh, that, that's when I left the industry, you know. I came, I moved home, and then I was like, what am I gonna do with my life? So I kind of just— I took an internship at a TV studio in Manhattan So that's kind of how I fell into my, my current, or, or my, you know, pretty much my professional career being in the TV industry as a TV editor and producer. So I did that for the majority of my, my 20s into my 30s. Um, you know, and then I got into music and, uh, you know, I was producing music and throwing events in Brooklyn. And then I got into that for about 5, 6 years. I started up, you know, an eyewear business and, and a few other just small startups. And that, that's kind of how I um, gain the interest and kind of, you know, um, you know, like the business background, I guess, is kind of how that evolved into, uh, into BoozeBox.

So you, so you, you, you tried a couple of things before you went into—

Exactly. Yeah. Oh, I did a lot of testing, a lot of failing. You know, I've invested my money into a bit of these businesses. Um, yeah, like the one was, you know, it's called Brave New Vision Eyewear, I remember. And, and that, that was something I took on for about a year or two, and I just Realized how hard it was and how much money was going into it, but I realized it wasn't going anywhere. But it was really good practice, you know, and that practice kind of evolved into, you know, building, um, you know, BoostBox.

You still own that. We're gonna get that going soon.

Yeah, that's the next one.

There you go. I like it.

Hey, so, so, so it's interesting to me is that, and again, for our listeners to know, is that You know, you guys again came from, from kind of opposite ends really of the, of the business, right? Like, you know, Ryan clearly kind of like, you know, the business guy, you know, with the experience with the marketing and the, and the, and the promotion and stuff and obviously self-promotion when you're, when you're doing anything with music and things like that. So much of that, right, is like the hype and all those things. So you, you had that kind of experience. Norm, it sounds like obviously you had the, you know, you had the product experience like making the, you know, the cocktails. Tell them, talk to me a little bit about the process of going through and actually figuring out what cocktails to make and how you decided to— because right now Booze Box, right, comes in what, 3 flavors?

Yeah. So 3 flavors, distilled spirits. We have a, we have a rum-based one, the Moonlight Mojito. We have a gin-based one, the Watermelon Cooler. And then we have a vodka-based one, which is the Pineapple Mule. And pretty much the way I came up with them, I mean, the Moonlight Mojito is actually a classic recipe of mine. It's essentially like an orange strawberry mojito. And I've had it on restaurant menus multiple times and it's always been like a top-selling cocktail. So I was like, that's definitely a winner, 100%, putting that in the box. And then I was thinking gin-wise, like, you know, people usually don't gear towards gin, but I know how to make cocktails that people are like, wow, this is gin, I love this. So I paired that up with cucumber, which is great with gin, and then also watermelon and lemon. So it really brings the gin out, is super drinkable. And then the mule, the Moscow Mule was at the time was like the number one ordered cocktail worldwide. So I did that and I, you know, add pineapple to it. Pineapple Mule. It's, I think as the numbers speak, it's the number one selling as of right now.

Right. So, so, so those are just 3 things that you were already making as cocktails and you just knew were popular. And you just say, look, these are the ones that go out of the gate with because you knew that they were— they would do well from a, from a popularity standpoint.

Definitely. Yep.

That's amazing. So, and then, so Ryan, when you, from a, you know, you guys are sitting around that, that, you know, your kid, that kitchen island that night, right? And you guys are like, let's put this in a box, right? You saw the wine boxes and you're like, okay, well, this, this, and it's a, to be clear, it's a, Booze Box comes in a 1.75-liter bag-in-box situation, right? So, you've got a plastic bag inside, right, that keeps everything fresh and non-perishable, right? And then, you've got— that's placed inside. There you go.

Perfect.

Excellent. Exactly. Sets inside a box. And, by the way, just so you know, I actually still have one over here.

There's the Mule.

Yeah. I actually am a huge, huge fan of the Mule. Huge fan.

Yeah. Cool.

And I liked, I liked Moscow Mules beforehand, but the, with the pineapple thing in it is, it is excellent.

Like it's been the number one seller.

It's drinkable, the whole thing. Really, really good. Anyway.

Yeah.

Um, so take me back to that night again. Okay. And you guys now have thought about what is the, why, why the, like, what, what, what was it about the box and bag situation that you guys found so kind of irresistible? And the reason that I give it, just to give it context for our listeners, is that You know, this, this is actually the only box and bag combination in, you know, with, with distilled spirits in the industry right now. Okay. So despite how crowded it was, the industry is, or the market is, lots of it's got to do with like the cans and individual servings. Right?

Right.

For sure.

Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of, you know, why we went the direction of bag-in-box because of, yeah, like you said, this is the competition. Competition is zero to none. So You know, it felt like it would be a good idea to go with bag-in-box rather than can. You know, like the can just market is super saturated. You know, I think we have one competitor, maybe two out there, one being BeatBox. So, so yeah, you know, I think that was one of the main reasons why we decided to go that route. Not, not so easy getting it started.

Yes.

You know, we definitely ran into some, some hurdles and some, some things we had to overcome over the years. Like manufacturing. Um, so, so yeah, we overcame that, um, you know, and landed on a really good manufacturer in here in New Jersey. So working with them now, um, they've been great to work with. Um, you know, so it's all about just, just optimizing this, uh, this business model that we have and, you know, getting our COGS down at the end of the day. Um, so to really just catapult this business to where we want to go.

And just for our listeners' sake, COGS is your cost of goods sold, which, uh, which in packaged good industry is one of the kind of major value drivers. of the business, reducing those costs to the point, you know, obviously as much as you can, is always going to— by retaining— while retaining the quality of the product, right, is really one of the big challenges. You're going to say something. Yeah.

So I was going to go— I was going to touch back on the bag-in-box thing. Well, we were like, like, like I said before, we got the idea from the boxed wine, but kind of we— the idea of it was to do large format. So it's like pretty much essentially it's a batch cocktail. So, it's not just a single serve because everyone has the cans, right? It's like this does 14+ servings. So, all you need is you need one of these, a cup with some ice, and you're good for the whole night.

And then, you garnish it yourself, right? I mean, you guys even make recommendations. I know you got some videos on your Instagram and stuff with how to garnish it and stuff like that.

Yeah, yeah. People can have fun with it too at the end of the day. And, we definitely ultimately want to keep the large format 1.75-liter for forever, you know, because that's kind of our staple. But we are observing and exploring Tetra Paks, so smaller single serves, which we are looking to explore later in 2025. So that'll be on the agenda for then.

What's great about this stuff, look, we know how well alcohol, especially distilled alcohol, keeps, right? Which is, so it's already, you know, kind of shelf-stable. But when you guys start adding other things to it like fruit and stuff like that and whatever, right? Obviously one of the big advantages of this bag in-box situation, right, is it's, is it shelf life, right?

Right. For sure.

2-year shelf life. Yeah. So that's one of the main, you know, main qualities of this product, you know.

So you've got, you've got that. So you've got all natural ingredients right inside with the distilled spirits, right? You've made, you literally made these batch cocktails. It's in a bag and now it's going to keep for 2 years, right? Even though it's got these natural ingredients in it and stuff because of the bag and all that stuff, right? So, I mean, obviously that's a huge piece of of why you guys went with the box, I guess.

Huge selling point.

Yeah, definitely.

All right. Are there other things? What else is there? Other— obviously, I, you know, I could think of the portability, right, of it. It makes, makes a lot of sense too, right? If you're— you got 14 drinks in a box that you can carry, you know, in one hand, right? Trying to, trying to, trying to drag a, you know, a case of like cans around, right? Yeah. Wherever you're going to go, seems like.

Yeah. The convenience factor really, really plays a major role in this product. Um, you know, it's a really easy grab and go off the shelf. Um, you know, being, I think, a main, uh, the main consumer, I think being in the off-premise, you know, it's really easy. You know, if somebody was to go in the liquor store and, you know, get their 6-pack or 12-pack that they wanted, the cans, and there's boom, just a quick grab of the Booze Box right off the shelf. It's super easy, super convenient.

And you're literally just like you said, Norman said before, you're literally just like pouring it over ice, right? And it's like ready to go. It's so you can keep it in that, you can keep it on your shelf, you could keep it right in your liquor cabinet or whatever. But, but it's the kind of thing too that Yep. I mean, your experience, Ryan, in events and stuff like that has to come into play here at some point, right?

Like, yeah, yeah, that's what we're looking to do, you know, at some point really get into like the music festival space, nightlife space, you know, even, even sporting events and things like that. I think, you know, the possibilities are endless here, I think.

Yeah.

Right. And of course, you're— it's one thing to be off-premise where you were at liquor stores around the country right now. Tell them, tell us where actually, where, where, where BoozeBox is actually available right now. What's your distribution like right now?

Um, so we're available in 6 markets right now, uh, New Jersey, New York, uh, Rhode Island, Florida, California, Texas, with more on the way in 2025. And, uh, we actually solidified a few key partnerships, one being at Total Wine, which we're at 13 locations right now and in 4 different markets. Um, and we are also in, in the Buy Right chain. Buy Right is mainly in New Jersey. They have 62 locations, but we're in about 15. Um, and, and yeah, did I miss any, Norm?

That's pretty much it. Yeah, I mean, um, those, those are the major markets.

Yeah, those are like the major, major—

Yeah, those are the markets in the country.

Those are the big— We're in a handful of areas.

We probably have 50 to 60 other stores throughout Jersey and Rhode Island. Okay.

Those are the, those are the 6 major markets that you want to be in, especially as, you know, a startup. That's a huge milestone for us. And just instead of spreading yourself thin and trying to get into every single state, get in those 6 major markets and just crush those. And that, that's what's— that's the, that's the key to success with this.

Very, very smart. So what you guys are saying is you can't, you can't boil the ocean with a product like this, right? You've got to really go like kind of like at the beginning, like one distributor at a time, right?

Exactly.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Small steps forward.

What have been some of the challenges that you guys have faced and kind of overcome so far? And you guys have been, you've been working on this for about 4 years, but the company's really only about what, like a year and a half, 2 years old?

Yeah. Yeah. We launched about a year ago. Um, but I'd say one of the, one of the biggest challenges was self-distribution that Norman and I had to handle over the last year. So that was me and Norman pretty much going door to door, store to store, and, uh, you know, selling the product ourselves.

Right.

And, you know, having to sell it and, you know, taste the managers, taste the buyers at these specific locations. And, you know, the fact that we even got through, I think it was like 40 locations in Jersey over the last year, it's like I'm still pretty surprised that we were able to do that.

Yep.

Well, and it's a testament actually to the product too, right? So not only are you— have you guys done it? Look, it's one thing to come up with a product and we say this to our clients all the time. It's one thing to come up with a product. It's another thing to be able to know what to do with it. Right. And, and your ability to be able to come in and how did you learn what you needed to do? I mean, you guys had never, you had never really been in the, in the packaged good business before, right?

Yeah. I mean, we never were. Me and Ryan have never really been salespeople, but me being in the hospitality industry and being a bartender is kind of the experience that I had knowing how to do this and working with distributors and doing all those. the, the, the sales calls with the reps every week and stuff like that. So kind of just the years of industry experience I used, kind of implemented that into the self-distribution.

Yeah, yeah, no, agreed. Yeah, no, that, that was definitely a key part of it, but a lot of it was also learning as well, just learning as you go, you know, especially with like the production process and then into the sales process. You really just, you got to go in and just head down, go into it, go into that meeting, that buyer meeting, and just sell your product. You know, do you know the product? You know, we're the founders, and, you know, being the founder, you have to know your product in and out. Just talk about the product.

Right.

Taste it, taste them on it. You know, talk about the selling points, talk about, you know, the, the most important things. Um, you know, the low sugar qualities, the, um, you know, the taste profile, the all-natural ingredients. You know, there's plenty of selling points that we have with this product, so it's really just like nailing those down and just Emphasizing those heavy on the meetings.

Right. But I mean, you guys had to like figure out, I mean, it's one thing to be, you know, again, not to take anything away, Norm, it's one thing to be a bartender. It's another thing to own a packaged good company, right? And be and understand like, okay, what was the first thing you did? Where did you literally have to start? I mean, was it like a Google search? How do I run a, how do I run an alcohol brand?

Yeah, this is the CPG industry, man. It's like, this is just as similar to, uh, you know, a health product like an energy drink. You know, I know that there's definitely hurdles in the alcoholic beverage industry, but, you know, being a CPG product, um, you know, it's definitely similar to any one of them out there. And, you know, it's, it's, it's definitely tough. And Norman and I have seen that since we started. You know, it's, it's a tough industry, and there's a lot of research and development and, um, you know, failure, successes, um, you know, and just, just really getting through that, those hurdles and being able to come out on top.

What do you, what do you, what do you think up to this point? And obviously, you know, anybody would look at where you are right now and call it an unqualified success. I mean, in terms of your ability to get it off the ground, because in this industry, obviously, just even, even getting it out there is a challenge, right? You guys had to sink your own money into this stuff, right? You had to go and find A co— a co-manufacturer who would do this, right? Tell me about that process and stuff. How did you kind of— there must have been a huge challenge to be able to go out and try to find someone who would not only do— not only do it at a price point you guys could afford. Obviously, you guys aren't coming from, you know, you didn't have millions of dollars in backing.

No.

And then the other thing has got to be about, well, what about this bag-in-box concept and how many people on the planet actually do this? From a, like, from a manufacturing standpoint.

Yeah, not, not many, not many. And yeah, we were able to, to find that out. Yeah, during the process, we actually had a manufacturer based in Atlanta first. Um, you know, uh, that was back in, you know, once we first started the product. And, and that's really true. Yeah, they're, uh, I don't know if I want to say their name.

Yeah, we'll keep that out. There was, there was literally a handful of, at the time, I mean, now it's starting to trend more and companies are popping up being able to do bag-in-box with alcohol. That was the main— that was the main thing is like step one was like, all right, how can we get this manufactured? So we reached out to a bunch of companies and there was only a handful that could actually do this with the technology to do it with alcohol.

Excellent. And what was the challenge around the alcohol particularly, just out of curiosity?

Well, I think like, you know, some of the the product being like, you know, say for instance, the plastic bag inside or the cardboard.

Gotcha.

I think, I think alcohol would either react—

Right.

React weird with whatever materials.

So, I mean, you guys literally like, I mean, how did, so how did you, you know, when you, when you finally found the, the, the manufacturer that you're using now, um, what was it about them that made, made it feel like it was the right fit?

Uh, I, I think the first few phone calls, um, you know, with, uh, the, the owner over there was, was a Yeah. A key selling point for us and one of the main reasons why we went with them. And, you know, they didn't do bag-in-box when we initially went over to them. They were one of our just fallbacks. And, you know, they initially didn't, like I said, they didn't do bag-in-box. They, we kind of had to talk them into it. So they, you know, pretty much rented the equipment and got all the proper equipment in their warehouse ready to go for us. You know, they made the initial investment into us and, you know, I guess they saw something in our product. So It was also something I think that benefited them at the end of the day because, you know, they weren't doing it before and now they do do it. So they could offer a back-in-box concept within their, within their company, you know, to other brands that wanted to do it. So, um, I think it was a win-win for them. It was a win for us, you know, got us up and running. So we're thankful we found them.

That's a really good lesson though for other founders too, right? Is that it's a matter of, look, it's one thing— nobody can do any of this stuff by themselves, right? I mean, no matter what business.

No way.

No way.

So being able to find people and go through as many people as you did talking to, to try to figure it out, sometimes gets you to a place where you're like, you know, where you actually find more of a partner, you know, because again, whenever you can create a mutually beneficial situation, right, for a supplier or anybody who's doing work for you, that's obviously a key thing. It's gotten you further. What about the process of There's a whole packaging concept too, right? So, it's one thing to be able to put the box and the bag together, but there's 2 other pieces to this. One is obviously the label on the outside of the box and what the packaging looks like.

Yup.

And, the other is also there's actually the— now you're taking a cocktail that Norman used to make at a bar with raw ingredients on the spot and now you got to turn it into a mass-produced situation, right? So, that's a whole other level. Like, where do you, uh, you know, how do you even know where to begin when it come— when it came to, uh, you know, actually the, the recipe and, and, and doing it in this mass-produced way?

Um, that, that was something that our manufacturer actually was able to, um, to handle for us. Um, they handle any capacity of projects, so anything from 100 cases up to 100,000 cases. So, and, um, yeah, Norman, you want to tell them about like what we did? Uh, yeah, so, so So sending them your cocktails in the mail, that was pretty cool.

Yeah, so literally I actually made, um, a large amount of my cocktail recipes. I put them in mason jars and jarred them up and, and sent them out in the mail. And I was like, I mean, I need this, replicate this in a bag, in a box, mass-produced. So kind of like, you know, they, they got my real you know, raw ingredient cocktail, and they had to figure out how to like mass produce this with being sustainable and whatever it needed, you know, pretty much in a lab.

They, they matched it though. They like, they took cocktails and they just like completely like did a little— I'm assuming what they did was get around the table, they all taste it, give a little, little swig.

It took, it took, it took like a dozen times of going back and forth to nail it, but like it is spot on. Even to this day, if I make one of these from scratch, it'll match what comes out of that box.

So, so you made a big batch of this stuff and you put it into the mason jars and you started sending these mason jars to manufacturers basically to see. And their whole thing was taste this and try to match it with— and then you gave them a bunch of requirements, right? Where you said it's got to be a distilled spirit. It's got to be—

Oh yeah. Yeah. We let them know that on the initial call. Like, pretty much are like what we want this product to be, like low sugar, all natural ingredients. You know, we don't want any of the fake shit in there, right? You know, and we want it to be completely, you know, good tasting at the end of the day because—

Yeah. And, you know, obviously I sent them the mason jars but a recipe. So like, this is what I put in it.

Got it, got it, got it.

You know, do this but in mass quantity, right?

But then, but at the same time, make sure it's, it's shelf stable. Make sure that it's, you know, in a situation where there's no added— you're not adding any.

No, no. No artificial.

Nothing artificial. That's just amazing. I mean, that's an amazing story. Like, that's the kind of thing, guys. This is what it takes, right? I mean, this is a founder story right here. This is the way it's done. You guys, you overcame some real challenges at the beginning. I mean, this is the kind of thing that if you hadn't, what would've happened, do you think, if you hadn't been able to match The flavor?

Uh, I don't know.

I mean, honestly, I think that we would probably just have to change up the flavor profile, you know. You know, there was, there was probably going to be no way that we were going to let these taste bad. You know, we went back and forth, I don't know how many times, Norm, like 4 or 5 probably.

Oh, I would, I would say between the two, between the two manufacturers that we went with, the one, the first one was about like 5 or 6 times.

Oh yeah, no, no, not the first one.

The second one nailed it within the first couple tries.

MetaBrand, yeah, yeah. They nailed it except for the watermelon. We had to go back and forth with the watermelon a few times.

Yeah, something was a little funky with the watermelon.

Cucumber was a little off.

We had to pull down the cucumber a little.

Smelled weird, tasted weird.

Add less lemon. But yeah, they nailed it within, I think, 3 times.

Yeah, that was a given though. That was one of their main things, make sure it tastes good. You know, sure, they nailed it for sure.

Right. But, and again, that, that's the kind of thing that could have derailed the entire enterprise right there, right? So, yeah, all right, so you get through that, right? You now you've got the batch, you're like, this is good, these are 3 different flavors, they're good. You did all 3 at the same time, right?

Yeah, right, all 3 at the same time.

All 3 flavors. And then you're like, you passed the, uh, the taste test as far as you guys were concerned. What did you guys do in terms of the— you had, and you obviously had some, some basic kind of at least anecdotal data on these flavors from your past life, right? But what did you guys do at this point? Now you've got this stuff made, right? And it's coming from the thing. Was there anything that you guys needed to do testing-wise, you know, after it was actually made by the, by the manufacturer to see if it would— if people liked it?

I mean, honestly, I'll take that right away. When they started sending us samples back, we got— I mean, obviously my approval. I've mixologist's palate, but like our peers, our friends, family. What do you think about this? How does this taste? They were sending us little glass bottles every time they would, you know, send a rendition of it, right? We were like— people were like, wow, this is so good. And that's when we were like, boom, we're going with it.

Yeah.

So you're like— you basically created like a little speakeasy where you're basically like packaging up your own little stuff and like sending it out to people, you know?

We had like a— we had a VP of a distribution company that I was close with. here in New Jersey. He came to our apartment and I tasted them on, like, what do you think about this? And I literally told him the concept. It wasn't even in the box yet. It was in a glass bottle, but we told him, this is what we're going to do with it. And he was like, unbelievable.

Do it. That's amazing. So, as founders, so it's such a great story. You guys, so now you got the stuff, Pat, you know that it tastes good. You know that you're onto something here. And now you're— and you've— so you've got your co-packer, you got the ability to be able to put this stuff in a bag-in-box, you've got the stuff to put in it, right? And you're, you're in pretty good shape there. But now you gotta, Ryan, now you gotta figure out, like, you know, coming up with a brand, right? Like, what did all the work that— how did you, how did you kind of— how did that evolve? How did the brand evolve in terms of, you know, where it started and where it is now?

Yeah, I think a main thing for the brand recognition and to where it evolved to what it is today is from social media. Yeah, we have a pretty good social media presence. It's not quite where we want it to be yet, but I mean, it's grown for sure over the last few years. So anything from influencer marketing to, you know, general social media marketing, a lot of partnerships with influencers, partnerships with just, you know, I wanna say local places like Pier 13 was a big one in Hoboken.

On-premise places.

On-premise. Yeah, they were a key part of how we, you know, why we are where we are today. I think, you know, they were able to really put together some nice collaborations and brand activations on their actual, you know, restaurant grounds. So that was huge. They wrapped their tables, they got logos in order, they got banners, all that good stuff. So that was major for our brand activation for that specific, um, premises. Um, you know, North Jersey in general was huge for that.

So, so that, that area right outside of New York City and Hoboken or whatever, in Jersey City, in those areas obviously where they're highly dense, densely populated, and a lot of younger people living there because they're commuting to the city and stuff like that, right? Exactly.

So, so that got some good foot traffic, that got some good eyeballs on the product. So, um, yeah, that was, that was a key part for our launch.

How much does on-premise actually factor into the business model?

Not a whole lot right now. We're only in a few locations on-premise, hopefully more, especially with other markets. We haven't really tested other markets yet other than New Jersey and Rhode Island. So I think that Texas is going to be good for that and Florida. You know, once we start exploring the on-premise activations with our product and, you know, just like outdoor bars and sports bars, I think it's going to be a win. But, you know, it's just, it's all about just really getting these, these activations going and kind of the marketing partnerships going to see how they really do.

I think we're also, we're a little ahead of the curve with this. People are going to catch on to it. And once they see, you know, some of these venues are doing this, they're like, oh, wow, this is smart. We need this here. A lot of, a lot of venues don't have even a cocktail list. They just serve, you know, your, your well drinks, your beers, your wines, shots. So if you don't have a cocktail list, you get booze boxes and just pour it over ice. It's cocktail.

And it must be, I would imagine, a volume play too, right? Because in a lot of those like high-volume sports bar or like outdoor bar things in the summer where you've got like literally where you've got space for like hundreds and hundreds of patrons, the bartending staff can't keep up. And the management goes, I don't want you to sell these fruity drinks. They take too long to make. Right. But then the customers want this stuff. And so this is potentially a way for them to be able to just like, right, like, you know, serve the stuff right out of the box, pour it over ice, and your volume can— Yeah, it makes sense.

It makes sense from a price point perspective too, because, you know, we're selling to these bars for, you know, like anywhere between $100 to $120 a case. And, you know, they're selling for, you know, $10, $12, $15 per cocktail, you know, per drink. So Landit's coming in at $2, $3, you know, and you're— they're making, um, you know, $10, $10, $12 a glass.

So, wow. So it's—

the margins are astronomical when you use it that way, right?

That's, that's amazing. So that's, that's obviously going to be a big play for you guys moving forward, is trying to figure out that on-premise thing, right? And getting that, right? Right.

Yeah, it's all, it's all about, um, making people aware of it. I think that once people start catching on to it, you know, I think it's going to start spreading.

And I want to add in a key thing that I've seen. Um, for instance, Pier 13, what they did is they have frozen machines, and if you just, if you just cut this bag, cut the bag open and pour it in the frozen machine, it comes out perfect slushy frozen cocktail.

So, so that could be a real benefit, man. You'd have those 3 different—

the bottles and the citruses and all the things. Yeah, that's just There you go. Pour it in the machine.

Oh, the efficiency. And it tastes great. And it's real distilled spirits, right? I mean, so it's— this isn't— talk— let's talk a little bit about— speaking of that, talk a little bit about what you think the competition is. Okay. And I'm wondering what— how you guys kind of view the market, because, you know, I know the market to be full of like, you know, canned individual canned kind of things. You obviously got not just, you know, in the RTD space, you've got the seltzer thing has been big. Right. So you got stuff with carbonation and obviously wine, you know, also is a factor somewhere, right, in terms of because they've been doing this box and bag thing since the '80s.

Yeah. No, I think that our major competitors are going to be Booze Box— Booze Box— BeatBox, just because, you know, it's a boxed cocktail concept, but they are wine-based. So that's kind of where we differentiate ourselves. from them. But I think when you look at it from like a spirit-based RTD concept, I think our competitors are going to be along like the Cutwater canned line, the on-the-rocks cocktails, because they're spirits. But, you know, they are different than us because obviously on-the-rocks is glass, Cutwater's can. But, you know, in terms of box spirit-based box cocktails, yeah, yeah, there's really—

There's a couple out there. But when, when we were doing like our, our, our research and development, our R&D, we tasted on these other competitors, if you want to call them, but they don't have original recipes like I— like what I came up with. It's, you know, they have whiskey sour, Cosmo, margarita, classic cocktails, and they just didn't taste good.

Yeah, and I think that's one of the main reasons why businesses like that fail is because they're not original enough, they're not unique of a concept enough. So, um, yeah, I think it's all about being, being original at the end of the day.

That's a really good point because I, I think again, people, you know, when people go into a, you know, uh, people look at a market like this that looks like it's saturated, right? And then, then the next thing you look at is like it's growing to be a, what is it? I think the last thing I saw was what, a $13 billion industry, just the RTD market. Right? The RTT market.

Just RTTs.

And you're talking about, you know, 7%, 8% growth year over year for the next, you know, for the basically foreseeable future.

Yep.

Right? And so, I mean, it's so that while on one hand it looks like it's saturated with a lot of, a lot of people, the reality is the people that are bubbling to the top are, are the people like BoozeBox, because what you're bringing to the table is something that, that truly is different. Right. And the experience in general is better, it seems like. Like, I think with those, with those individual cans, you're going out in individual guys, you're going out and buying these kind of smaller servings. And I think that's great. But I think at the same time, the value of this is just tremendous. If you're like a, you know, if you're a young person, right, with a limited budget and whatever, like, this is a party. This is the entire night in the box right now. Yeah.

For what?

For like $30, right?

Not even.

Yeah. Yeah. We're looking at a price point of around $24.99 off the shelf. Yeah. I just want, I want to, I want to add on that though. And, you know, I think that what, what the, the, the younger demographic is really going for is, is something with a, with a little bit lower of a price point. And that's, that's those single serves off the shelf.

Right.

So that, that, that's kind of where, where our price point, yeah, it's, it's a great price point and yeah, it makes sense. But when, when, you know, your average person looks at it, They want to grab the $2.99, the $3.99 single serve over the $24.99, you know, big, large format. So those are kind of one of the hurdles that, that we're, you know, looking to overcome over the next year. So, right. Um, yeah, that's just, I just wanted to bring that up because that's—

Yeah, that's cool though. So you'll look at the single, you're not saying that the single servings doesn't make sense. It's just a matter of you got, but you guys obviously started there, started not there for a reason, right?

Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And also, also from, um, you know, a manufacturing standpoint, um, you know, it's, uh, Tetra Pak is pretty difficult. Um, you know, it takes a lot of, um, you know, just, just attention to detail, persistence, you know, staying on top of it. And also their, their MOQs are pretty high. So, um, yeah, it's, it's— we'll get there. But it's, um, you know, it's all about, yeah, really just continue on this path with bag-in-box until—

Another win for the consumer too. Like you were saying, you know, the young demographic with with low budget is this is 12.5% ABV. So you're going to get, you're going to get the most bang for your buck with, with this product because it's 12.5% ABV distilled spirit. A lot of our, you know, what we're seeing in the RTD market is 4%, 5%, 6%, very low for more money.

Right. So more expensive, but less actual, less alcohol content. Yeah, right, right, right. Interesting. So what do you guys say to people who say, oh, you know, the alcohol, alcohol, cannabis, you know, alcohol drinking is down? You know, there's energy drinks and, and these, you know, kind of fortified drinks and the whole thing are kind of like all the rage right now. You know, what do you say to people who say that, you know, alcohol is dying?

And I completely disagree, to be honest. And I know maybe numbers are talking Alcohol drinkers, whatever, whatever. But alcohol is not going anywhere. It's been here for centuries.

Yeah, it's not—

it's never going away.

And if you look at like the history of a market cycle, like we're going through what, what you see in a typical market cycle, and, and we're going through a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of a dip, you know. But what happens in a market cycle after a dip? You know, there's an explosion. You know, we're right at that, that the precipice of that explosion, you know, and being able to, to take over that white space of a spirit-based RTD market. And, uh, you know, judging from, you know, what we're seeing with THC and, and energy drinks, you know, that's another saturated market. So, you know, if you, if you look at it, you know, there's saturated markets everywhere. It's all about being original. Um, you know, you see people like, like Poppi being bought out by, by PepsiCo for $1.95 billion, but, you know, they, they were able to, to come in and into the market, this is the modern soda market, and take it over. So that was one thing that, that they were able to, to capitalize on. But, um, you know, from CBD and THC and all that, um, same concept, you know, it's, it's all getting saturated.

But, um, that goes to show though, I mean, even in a saturated market, you think, you know, I mean, soda's been around for how long and all of a sudden a, a person comes out with a new idea and sells it for $2 billion, right?

Yeah, no, it's an excellent point.

You know, it takes one idea and, and what was the main thing that, that really really got them to where they were. It was their marketing, right? You know, obviously it tastes— tasted decent, but, you know, at the end of the day, it still had a little bit of sugar, you know, still had a little bit of, you know, the, the bad quality ingredients. But, you know, their marketing was superior, you know, to other brands, right?

And they obviously got some, some pretty significant, you know, equity there at the end because they obviously— they, they lifted their advertising up a major level. I mean, they were Super Bowl and, you know, and big-time, you know, Yeah.

And they were able to bring on some, some key partners in the beginning, which is kind of what we're going for right now. Like, we're looking to bring on some key partners right now, you know. And I think with the right partners, um, that come with us at this stage, you know, I feel like that those are the people that are, that are gonna reap the benefits and reap the rewards, you know, at the end of this, uh, this, this whole business.

Right. So, so right now, in terms of the— what does the company look like now, you know, where it stands right now?

Yeah.

So, about so right now, today. Today it's, you know, what, we're March 31st, 2025 as we record this today. What does the company look like and what is your kind of, what's your trajectory right now?

So in terms of sales, like financials and all that?

Yeah, I mean, we don't have to get into the necessarily, yeah, whatever you're comfortable sharing. I just mean like who is in the company, how many people are there, you know, what does the kind of organization look like and that kind of thing from a, you know, just a top level.

Right, right, right. So yeah, we have Neil Norman and myself as the founders. Well, we have, we have 3 advisors, you being one of them, along with your 2 partners, Carol and, uh, and John. Um, we have, we have 2 sales and distribution partners, uh, by Alicia and Sam, and we're looking to bring on a, um, a COO that will handle the operations side of things. Um, but yeah, that, that really makes up our core team. And, um, you know, those are going to be the people that really propel us to where we need to be. Um, but along with that, you know, we're solidifying, you know, partnerships every day with, with new distribution. So that, that's where our sales and distribution partners are coming into play, helping us grow at that, you know, introducing us to new markets, uh, helping us expand to those markets, um, you know, uh, being able to hire key sales reps through within these markets, uh, optimize our go-to-market strategy, um, at a, you know, respective price point. So this is kind of, um, you know, just a couple of the key points, you know, that I want to bring up that, you know, how we're going to be able to expand this brand and make it a national and international brand rather than just a local brand.

Got it. And from a projection standpoint, what does the next few years look like in terms of if everything goes, you know, the way it goes?

Goes well now. And, you know, we got the right partners on board now. We're looking at this business to be an $80 million business by 2029.

$80 million. That's amazing, right? Amazing. And you guys are— so your projections and all that stuff are bearing out. And then, and from a partner standpoint, from an investment standpoint, you guys are You know, looking for VC money, angel money, that kind of stuff. I know you guys got a big crowdfunding campaign going on. Talk to me a little bit about the crowdfunding campaign. What's that about?

So, the crowdfunding campaign is something that we took on about 2 months ago. We partnered up with a company called Looped. They actually found us on LinkedIn. So, yeah, we were able to get pretty tight with the founders. Got a couple of cool guys. You know, we met with them a few times for drinks and lunch. We're able to get a good, good campaign going, um, and we, we were able to, you know, get behind a pretty good marketing agency which is able to, um, you know, really, really get our brand out there and really get the campaign out there. So we've been working them with them diligently on that end, um, but we're, we're looking to wrap up this campaign around the middle of May, May 15th to be exact. Um, so our, our target goal is $1 million. For this, you know, obviously, if we are a little short, you know, no problem. But you know that that's kind of our target, our target goal. So you know we'll see when we get there. You know we have a long way to go, but you know I think that it's it's reasonable and doable.

What what what are you gonna? It seems reasonable, especially for a kind of a major kind of initial investment like that. What do what do you guys? What what's the plan? What do you do with that million dollars? Right? I mean, so. For the rest of our audience out there who might be new founders or people that are just trying to figure out how to even, you know, do this stuff, what is the— what's the process here? Like, what do you do with that million dollars? And, you know, what's the plan?

Uh, yeah, so, so with the investment money, there will be an allocation of the funds to specific sectors of our business. Um, you know, being the main thing being purchases, inventory, and, and things like that. So, um, you know, I want to say about 60% of our, of our budget will be going to production. Inventory and production, right? Um, because, you know, without the inventory, we will have no business. And that's something that we need to have a firm grasp on over the next 1 to 2 years. Um, and after that, I would say marketing is going to come next. Marketing will be about 20 to 25%. Um, because without marketing, obviously there is also is no business, especially in the alcohol business. You need marketing. Without marketing, um, you'll be a nobody and you will suffer and, and die out.

And it's just a— and it's a requirement really from the distributors too, right?

Oh yeah, with the distributors, it's a 100% requirement.

You know, without marketing budget, without a marketing spend, it's all about marketing these days.

They're gonna give you a no. And that's part of the reason why we've gotten nos from distributors, because our marketing budget wasn't quite right there. Um, you know, we weren't in alignment with, with their vision and, um, with what their minimum was. So, um, you know, we got Bunch of nos. Uh, luckily we got some yeses out of it, so, uh, we're lucky to be where we are with that. Um, but, um, you know, the remainder of the funds will be, um, obviously just miscellaneous expenses like legal things and, uh, TTB and all that good stuff. Um, and then key hires and wages, um, you know, to pay people like our advisors and our sales and distribution team and our operations guys. Right.

That's awesome. I mean, this is such a great story, right? For you guys to be able to come from it the way that you did. to be able to have the, the vision that you had when you saw that stuff and be able to know, I mean, I know that you guys were kind of like, let's be in business together doing something. But the fact that that thing kind of came to you the way that it did, and I gotta tell you what's most impressive to me, and I, I'm sure that to, to people listening out there have the same thing, is that lots of people have ideas, right? Lots of people have those moments sitting around the kitchen island where, you know, we should put on a show or we should have this.

Always starts, especially with my and Norman's friend group throughout our 20s. There was always a around the island and always just bouncing ideas off each other, but nobody ever pulled through with anything.

But no one ever actually came, came and did it. But you guys did.

A lot of people are scared to risk. That's the thing.

Yes. Oh yeah.

But are you gonna do it? I would say 99% of the people will not follow through.

More, I would say 0.01% of the people actually do it, right?

So my big question is, how is it— what is it about you guys that made you guys the ones? What about this situation? Because again, you had others. What's the thing that you think was the thing that made you able to, enabled you to actually follow through with it?

I would say the initial financial risk from, you know, my norm standpoint, you know, I took out a sizable amount of money, you know, in the way of loans and credit to get this going.

Right.

To be completely transparent, you know, this wasn't all like savings or anything. I did have a little bit of money saved up on top of that, but, um, you know, loans and credit was, was major. Um, and then throughout the years, you know, Norman and I both just continued to pour our money into this.

Self-funded to this day.

Fully self-funded. Yeah. Right. Like every, you know, every paycheck that I get now, because I'm still working my full-time job. I don't know if you want to include that in there, but, um, yeah, but I know Norman as well. Norman's still bartending. Um, and we are literally pouring every bit of our money into this business to keep it going. Marketing for, you know, production, for hires, paying people like our operations people, everything, you know, everything.

At the end of the day, though, what we go off is, you know, no risk, no reward. So, yeah.

But that's got to be a hard place to get to. I mean, honestly, it's like you said, you had a bunch of friends. I remember doing that too, you know, back in the day, going, well, it'd be great if we did this next one, you know. And I was always of the mindset of like, let's— well, why aren't we doing this now?

Right.

But what is it about you guys that made you, and about this particular thing that made you guys go despite the, you know, it's worth the risk?

Right, right. I think that we had, I think after, I wanna say maybe it was what, before we actually got it going, it was probably like 2 years of just wait and just like, what do we do? Optimize the business strategy, get our packaging in order, get the artwork done, get our manufacturing in order. I think the main thing I want to say is like, once we found that, that new manufacturer, that was the— that was it right there. And that was like, all right, we're going in on this. We found our guy, we found our manufacturer, our artwork's all in place, our packaging is all in order. Everything's there. It's ready to go. All we need is the money. And that was that point where I was like, fuck it, I'm going all in. Let's do this.

So the first thing really was like, let's— if we get this thing to a point where we— where I can taste this and this tastes good, Like, that was basically like the big, the big moment for you, right? Was like, well, crap, we can actually do this.

The money came first and then we had to pay for those formulas. So, right, after we were like, fuck it, we're doing this, you know? And then like, it all came.

Got it.

Um, so it was like even before we made the full decision, before like the formulas came, before the, the, the, the production run came, you know, to go all in. Fuck it, let's do it, you know? And we just bit the bullet and we're like, all right, we're doing it.

What if you had a message for other founders like yourselves and the whole thing? What's the biggest message you can impart to people who are in your shoes, who are just starting to think about their, you know, falling into the business they're falling into right now?

I would say stay true to your craft, stay true to your vision, never give up.

Right.

I think that's, that's a couple of sure. Yeah.

Don't give up. And that's why a lot of people give up. I mean, someone like Jeff Bezos said it well, you know, 5 years in business, year 4, his first 4 years in business, lost, lost, lost, lost, lost. Year 5, boom. Never gave up.

Right. Yeah.

Keep showing up every day.

Right.

And you believe in something strong enough and you keep showing up in day. And by the way, How much do you guys rely on each other?

A lot. Yeah, every day.

We're pretty much all we have is each other at the end of the day, you know, and like, we're, you know, we're business partners, founders, best friends. And, you know, it's, that's kind of, yeah, this is like, this is, this is like the reason why we get up in the morning, you know, is to run this business. You know, we get on a call usually first thing and, you know, talk about what's, what's going on with the business. What are we going to do today? What do you have lined up? What meetings do you have? You know, like, and, and, and, and all while you're still—

guys are still working full-time jobs, right? I mean, because you gotta, you gotta— the right now, you're— the money that you're making basically goes right into the company and make sure that this stuff is out there.

Exactly.

That is real commitment. That's— I mean, that's a real commitment to what you're doing. You got to believe in this, um, for sure to be able to make— and you guys have made— seems like you guys have made really great strides. I mean, you know, the fact is that you've gotten to a, you know, a situation here where you're, you know, where you're You know, just about positive, at least positive in revenue, right? Even after your first year, you've got some stuff to be able to— you've got— you're working now on how you can refine your manufacturing process, right? And get that stuff to be a little bit cheaper, a little bit easier to do without, obviously, without losing the quality of what you're doing.

The first couple— the first year, I think, was our testing phase. Yeah, we're now in the optimizing stage, right? And then after that, once we optimize, then we scale.

Then it's scale, right? Exactly right. That's, that's an excellent way to look at it. Well, guys, look, it's, uh, we're just about out of time, but this was fantastic, you know, information. I think this is the kind of information that everybody needs to know. Obviously, you know, you guys are right now are, are open to investors, um, and, and, and, and would obviously love to talk to anybody who hears this who would be, who would be, uh, who would be interested in, uh, in either In either the crowdfunding thing, tell us where they can find the crowdfunding campaign.

So, you can find this on loop.co. That's L-O-U-P-T.co. And, you go to the main page, you'll be able to see our campaign right on the main page, click it, and you can make your investment right from that.

That's great.

Excellent.

And, of course, if there's anybody else out there who'd like to talk about a more direct investment or things like that with these guys, Yeah, obviously they will. They'll be available. You can—

Definitely looking for a lead investor for sure. It's turnkey. It's ready to go.

Absolutely. That's great.

And reach out to any one of us, you know, via LinkedIn, social media, email, whatever. Just, you know, get a hold of us and we're happy to chat.

Excellent. That's great, guys. Thanks so much for taking— for taking the time out today. I know you guys are really, really busy. Appreciate your time. This is a great story. You know, great brands and great always have these great stories, and sometimes you're landing in the middle of the story, and you're not. You know, obviously, even these guys don't know how it's going to turn out. You know, at the end of the day, but I mean, from a projection standpoint, you guys are you know hit. You know, you've hit every mark that you've needed to hit in a relatively short period of time, right? And and you're definitely on to something, and you guys you know you guys really know what what you're doing and how you're putting this together. You've You got your head on your shoulders, right? And your expectations are set well, which is also important, right?

Appreciate that.

Yeah, it's awesome. Thanks, guys. Thanks again for having us. Thanks again for being on the show, rather. Really appreciate you coming on the Exit Engine podcast, and we'll talk to you later.

Have a great day.

Sounds good.

Thanks, Joe.

Good luck. All right. Thanks.

Talk later.