The Exit Engine Podcast Episode 56: Strategic Networking

Welcome to the ExitEngine Podcast, episode 56. Yeah, I mean, look, we have absolutely seen the world change this way, right? And I think LinkedIn, even as a platform, has changed. Um, since the pandemic, no question about it, right? I mean, I remember back in— I've told this story before— I mean, back in 2009, whatever, 2008, whenever it started, you know, first kind of came out, and for years after that, it was like, don't contact me if you don't know me.

Yeah. Right?

It was like, don't sell me stuff. And it's like, what? People were on here— the jobs thing was probably good. I know that, that from a— and again, this is apropos of what we're talking about today, right, is the networking aspect of it is, it was, was kind of like, if I've met you in real life, then we, then we connect, you know, on LinkedIn. And then, and then what? Answer, nothing. So what would happen is, oh, don't contact me, don't do anything, whatever. If I meet you in real life now, I'll accept your thing. Oh, I remember you, whatever.

Now it gives me license to reach out to you on LinkedIn. Like, oh, we were at the same conference. And now I can reach out to you on LinkedIn, but, but you were never able to reach out and able, you know.

But then, but then, but then what? And so, and so again, it's about, if it's about networking, okay, so I have physically increased my network by, you know, by one person, and that's good. And then if I do that a bunch of times because I go to conferences or I'm out meeting clients or new business or whatever, I'm in my real life, that's nice. And I might, you know, gain, I might get 30 or 40 people a year like that.

Right.

Yeah.

But, but networking is not about just connecting people to your LinkedIn account, is it?

No, no, it's—

I—

the way— so I'm building my platform, it's Black Book, and one of the key components of it is reciprocity. And that's a big thing because when I've held like these speed networking events, Everybody goes and they sign up because they want something and they want to take, take, take, but they never want to give anything back. And you have to provide value back in order, you know, to receive value. And so that's as easy— it could look like making an introduction to the right person. It could look like sharing a helpful resource, sharing, reposting their content on yours. You know, there's a lot of different ways that you can show that reciprocity. online. And so like some of the different campaigns that I've ran just for my, because I'm a founder and I'm a first-time founder and I'm building a networking platform. I, all founders, they need people. They need to grow their team. They need advisors. They need investors. They need so many different people. And same with me. And so I also, at this couple months ago, I needed clients. I wanted to take on 1 to 2 fractional roles, you know, while I build my startup. And so I created a campaign. I use all different automation platforms. PhantomBuster is a good one that I use all the time. I use Growth Machine too. Those are for more bigger scale type of stuff. But if you can use your existing network, you don't always have to go out and build new connections, right?

Right.

And so like one of the campaigns that I ran is 3 sentences long. No follow-up. That's it. Just one outreach message and 3 sentences. And it was basically like, hey, hope things are going well at company. I'm looking to take on 1 to 2 fractional gigs while I build out BlackBook. Do you need someone? Do you know someone who needs help with XYZ? A warm intro would really help. That one single message, I got 12 calls booked in one week.

That's amazing.

I had 5 calls booked the next week and I got a client out of it. And so, you know, now it's like, okay, cool. Got that. Now let me launch another one that's, hey, I'm looking for advisors, investors, and a technical co-founder. Do you know anyone within your network that would, you know? And I got an intro to somebody that's building a platform that's kind of similar to mine. And we might be actually partnering up together. And so it's like, okay, I got that. Let me do one that's just for investors now. And so you kind of like just narrow it down and work it. Um, and you can find who you want. But the thing is, is like, I get responses and even if they can't help me and they say, no, I don't know anybody or anything like that, I'm still responding and saying, hey, if there's anyone in my network that I can help introduce you to, let me know. I'd love to help.

The rest of them.

Constantly, like, giving back and making those introductions can really help, you know, that whole reciprocity aspect.

It's amazing because I think that that's what, again, that's, you know, we started off this conversation by kind of talking about how LinkedIn has changed, you know, as a— because that was what it was. It's supposed to be a networking tool, really, right? At the end of the day, a very large-scale one. Obviously, it's not niche by any means. It's got its issues as well. Like I found too, as we've been on this kind of campaign ourselves in terms of building our network, that I don't see I don't get— my feed contains nobody that I know, very few people that I know in real life anymore. Right. It used to be like it was all people that I knew or whatever and the whole thing, because that's how I knew them. I knew them because I already knew them. And then we connected on LinkedIn and that's what LinkedIn did.

Right.

Then if you needed it, and we've all used it for job search and things like that, and I'm sure people have had various success and, you know, with that stuff too. But what Chelsea is here to talk to us about today is this kind of, you know, idea of really of intentional networking. And the idea that there are certain— what Chelsea brings to the table is that there are— she has learned there are certain, you know, there are certain kind of ways and habits and things like that that work within the networking, you know, spectrum, right? And certain things that, you know, that probably don't. And I think that there has been a kind of a fundamental shift in terms of, even since the pandemic, in terms of the collaboration of people and the willingness of people to be able to say, yes, I will introduce you to my network. Have you seen that shift?

Yeah. There are also some people who are very hesitant. That's like, hey, I've never actually met you before, so I would rather hop on a call and get to know you before I make that intro because it is their reputation on the line too.

Absolutely.

But there's also a lot of people, and there's a statistic that came out right after the pandemic, actually, Where a lot of people like lost their jobs. And they, I think it was like 50% or more were actually scared to reach out to their network because of like, they were embarrassed or they hadn't already given that value, that reciprocity value up first. So they were afraid to ask for it back. And so a lot of people, they don't want to tap somebody on the shoulder or reach out into their inbox because they're, you know, a little embarrassed or afraid. But You gotta just get there, get out there and do it. Get past it, do it.

And it's like, it's like yourself, like Jo said in the past, like you gotta get over, like he didn't used to not like the sound of his own voice. And so like, so doing a podcast, that can be a real problem. Like, yeah, you get over it.

Don't have to listen to it.

And I have the same, I have this, I had the same challenge like back in the day, like when I first joined LinkedIn, it was like, all right, what is this for? Like what? And I was sort of figuring it out. And then it's like, oh, you get, get more comfortable posting and asking people for things, right? Asking people for help, right? When you're, when you're putting yourself out there, you're asking people for their expert, their, their opinion, their connections. Hey, can you introduce me to something? And that takes a little bit of, of over— you have to overcome that and get over yourself a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, it does. It's interesting because I'm working with a client that's an agency, so I'm working with one client, but the many clients and helping them generate leads through their network on LinkedIn. And these are big enterprise-level organizations and asking to talk to somebody in the C-suite, hey, can I use your LinkedIn? Because it's going to help you get more revenue into the company and generate more leads and stuff like that. There is such a barrier and either they've They're active on LinkedIn, and they have a really great following, or they've never used it in their life, but they have like a big following, you know. And so it can, it can be a little bit of like a barrier, like, whoa, you want to access my LinkedIn? I don't know what you're doing, you know.

But well, it's—

you get more response rates, and it helps your organization overall. And then once you get in, and you can set up these automations and actually use it, the— you see the response rates, and you're like, Oh, okay. Like, I had one of them be like, can we, can we do this for like 5 of our team members? And I'm like, sure, yeah, you can, but you're gonna have to hire like a little VA to help respond to all of these messages, you know, because it's—

Well, because the last thing you want to do is open that up, right? You want to, you know, it's, it's funny when you see someone that's starting to do that because you can sort of sense when someone is, they have a huge following, but they're sort of dormant, and then all of a sudden they start posting. And they get these responses. But the worst thing would be, I would imagine, is they start networking and then no one responds, right? Because then it's like a shout into an empty room because they've put themselves out there. And then if you don't respond to the people that engage with you, that's a problem.

Yeah. And LinkedIn's algorithm is so tricky because if you're using automation to do outreach and messaging, you can only do— I think it's like If you're a Sales Navigator account, I think it's like 150 messages a week. If you're not, then it's 80 messages. And I forget how many connection requests. They scaled it back a lot.

Yes, they did.

And if you don't get a lot of responses to your outreach, then they will go in, your messages will go into like the other tab, not the focused one. And so then a lot of them don't get seen. And they also base it on like, are you responding and are those messages different? So you have to change the content almost every single week. So that way it looks like new and refreshing. And also like your social selling index number, which you can find on there, that kind of calculates, are you posting? Are you commenting? Are you engaging? Are you messaging? Basically all those different little things. So, it's kind of like you can't do one without the other, you know, kind of have to do both.

No, absolutely. And, you know, we've seen too, it's like the— there's kind of 3 legs to the stool, right? There's the content you post, and that has to be on a, you know, on a relatively regular basis. But I think most people don't know right now that the algorithm is— that's not the heaviest weight of the algorithm.

Right?

It's actually, they want engagement more than they want individual. Now they need the posting in order to get engagement, right? Like they need everybody, as many people to post as often as they possibly can. So that creates engagement, but that's only one leg of the stool. The other leg is how are you, how are you commenting on other people's content, right? Are you engaging with that? And it's not, and then commenting is obviously heavier, more heavier weighted than liking or whatever is, right? And then on top of that, it's a matter of can you go in and actually look at the other people who are commenting on that original post and comment or interact with those people?

Yeah. Right.

So anyway, the idea is that it's— I think most people take LinkedIn from a networking standpoint is that there is a lot to learn, you know, about LinkedIn, just LinkedIn. But again, even more than that is, again, is just networking in general. Okay, and that's why today on the Exit Engine Podcast, we're going to talk with Chelsea Moder. Chelsea's a growth strategist and networking architect who's redefining how professionals and founders connect in the digital age. With over a decade of experience in growth strategy, revenue operations, and demand generation, Chelsea doesn't just talk about business development, she engineers it. And I love that because we love that word engineer too. She builds immersive networking ecosystems that turn casual connections into real conversions, whether she's designing virtual engagements or launching precision-targeted ABM campaigns. Chelsea's approach is always rooted in analytics, creativity, and a laser focus on results. She's also a published, a published thought leader in Time, MSN, and The Drum, and the creator of a popular weekly roundup that curates the best networking events, tools, and trends. She's the founder of Black Book, which she is getting up and going, and she'll talk about that today. Today we'll explore today how strategic networking can accelerate your growth and set you up for a successful exit. Plus the tactical moves founders should be making right now to be visible in the right rooms. Chelsea Moder, thank you so much for joining us on the XEngine Podcast today.

Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

So we were talking, you know, a little bit when you first got on the call today about the kind of— about there's a bunch of things about networking that I think people kind of need to understand. Can we— can you— can you set the stage for networking and what networking that actually creates that actually kind of creates conversions looks like? What is it? What is networking in general and how can it be used best?

Yeah, I think it's kind of a bunch of different things, right? It's the in-person networking events or people that you meet physically in person, it's online and who you socialize with the most online and who you're creating value for and with, which could be your clients. It could be people that you have developed partnerships with, people that are in your more inner circle. And so I kind of see networking as how are you touching all of those 3 points?

Mm-hmm.

And how are you getting the right people that you need at the right time to do things for you that you want. And a lot of that is by exchanging value. So what are you doing for them and providing to them that will help them come back and, you know, want to do the same for you? And your network, it doesn't just go away. It's not a very short-term thing. It's kind of these longstanding relationships. Like, I was in the cannabis space and ran an agency for 5 years. And I was a HubSpot partner and I have left that space 5 years ago and I still had somebody else give me a referral and now they're my client and I'm back into the cannabis space, you know, and I'm more in the startup space now. And so now I'm having to rebuild my entire network all over again, starting from scratch.

But because there's different kinds of people that you need at this point, whereas right from compared to where you were before. And even though your network is like, your network really never goes away, right? I mean, I guess, I guess we all get to an age where maybe your network dies, right? But yeah, but it's rare that someone is like where your network ever like really shrinks, right? But, but it's an interesting point you bring up, which is that sometimes you have to like build another network.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's forming these new relationships and I get bored very quickly and easily. So I'm always on to the new, newest thing because I want to learn and learning how to establish those type of relationships with these really important people that, you know, might seem like out of touch. It's, it's an art you have to learn, and it takes time to build. Like, how do I approach investors? How do I talk to them? I have no idea. Like, you know, and it's a learning curve. But—

Well, what have you learned about networking that either surprised you or was, or sort of is key to the to the way that you approach and help clients now that was sort of unknown to you before you got into this area of the world?

So I guess when I started my agency, I was gonna be a niche within a niche, like a hookah partner within this emerging cannabis space. And my background was in enterprise-level SEO and generating traffic and leads online and—

Demand generation.

Exactly. And doing that didn't exist back then in that industry. And so it kind of forced me to have to go out and build these relationships and network. And I've always worked remotely at home. So I've never really had an in-person other than when I was in college. And that was a big learning curve because here's, I'm an introvert. I was a stay-at-home mom. I've always worked remotely, going face to face and having these conversations with random people and going to like a conference that you're like, you just feel like so out of place, you know?

All right.

I'm digging in on the introvert because I'm an introvert too. So how— and half the people listening to this podcast are probably introverts, even though they're like, they're the quiet ones that never send us emails. But like, how is an introvert— like, describe that sort of aspect of your personality and how you got into networking and actually are thriving in networking.

Yeah, it's, it's time-consuming. It takes time.

It takes energy too, right?

It does. And it's honestly just getting out of your own head and getting out of your own way that you're almost just fighting with yourself. Like, there'd be times where I would get ready, I was prepared, had my network, my, my business cards, you know, I drive all the way to the event, I'd sit in the car, and I felt paralyzed.

Finish your coffee, you get another cup of coffee. You go out, you check something in your car, you do everything you can to not go into that space.

Yeah, except doing the thing you know you need to do, you know, and it becomes a little awkward at first because everybody's personality is a little different, right? You might try to approach someone like sometimes it would be, oh, giving a compliment. I like your shoes, or that's a nice watch, you know. Oh, I heard your conversation over there. I really, you know, thought about this and that. And then you do that enough. Then you start to keep going to these events and you start to have the damn small talk that ends up so long, you know. Uh, you make these— you talk to people that are irrelevant half the time. They're, they're not really—

The copier salesmen, they're, they're always at that event, you know what I mean? Like, those sales guys are like always at those events, you know, no matter what, right? And it's— you always get— and they're the chatty ones too, because they're the ones that are good at the small talk because they show up and just walk into people's offices, want to buy copy— copiers, or whatever it used to be.

Yeah. And that's the thing too about like conferences, right? Like there is such a buyer-sellers gap. People go and attend conferences to learn and get educated and businesses go to sell because they want leads.

And then— Talk about this, like talk about the person going there, they're diligently walking through the exhibition hall in Vegas or Chicago or something, and they're trying to get information about whatever tools or systems they're trying to do. I remember I used to do it for my business, and you would just get— you'd get jumped by somebody in, in like a, you know, they'd see your name and they'd see the company you're working for, be like, oh, you know, do you got this? Do you want that? It's, you know.

Yeah. And then so eventually I started to get a little smarter. You get smarter as you go, you know, and you learn to not endure the small talk and not, not talk to everybody that you strike up a conversation with. Like, so if there was a big conference happening, sometimes there's also these smaller little events around a big conference that are awesome for networking, because those are where the unofficial, like, you don't have to get a booth and be a salesperson to be in the room and talk. You know, some of them might be VIP only. And you might have a whole room full of executives that you might want to get into.

The conference before the conference, we used to call it, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And so those are the events that I find the most value in. And then also, if you can befriend the organizer first, like I would reach out to an organizer and be like, hey, I know that you're running this event. I know you have a million things on your plate. But if I can take one of those things off for you, I would really love to help you. And the organizers know the most important people in the room.

Right.

And they can make the introduction. For you.

They're the back gate. Actually, they're probably the best person to make it, especially if it's like the keynote speaker or someone like that, right?

I mean, it's funny, they even know when they're coming in, like they're, they're gonna arrive, right? I was at a real estate conference a while ago. I want to meet somebody and it's like, oh, well, don't do it today. He's not even going to be here until 8, 25 minutes before his event. So be here 25 minutes before the event starts and I'll introduce you. And you're like, score. You're like, nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There is, um, I had moved to Portland, Oregon for a little brief period of 8 months. And I, this is in the middle of me trying to build my startup. And so I had to go and get involved with the startup community out there. And so I did. And I started going to these networking events and I met this person, I did that, you know, and then I started to know all of these startup organizations. And there was one guy in particular who's very well known and very connected, and he would throw these networking events. And I'd love to go to them, but I'm looking for investors, right? I don't need to talk to everybody. And so I, you know, started to be known and show up at events a couple of different times. So my face was pretty familiar. And then you just go up to him and be like, so who do I need to know? Who do I need to talk to here? You know, and then he pointed out every single person, and I was done for the night. Like, I talked to every single person I needed to, I got what I needed, and I left.

There you go.

You know, booked calls with all of those.

So you got, you got, you got, not only you got smarter about it, but you got more efficient about it too, right? And so you're now, now when you're smarter about it, you know how to do it, you know who to talk to, you know how to not waste time, right? And of course, there's that, that's the intentionality that we were talking about before, right? There's a There's a program, a method to the madness, right?

Yeah.

Talk a little bit about what that method is or the way that you see that. And I know we just talked about that story, but what we talked about intentionality, we talked a little bit about reciprocity, right? What are some of the other kind of keys to like a successful networking experience? Because that's kind of what you're doing, right? You're basically instructing people on how to kind of, you know, Like you said, engineer a situation or engineer the access to a network so that you can purposely grow your business, right?

Yeah. Yeah. The other thing too is I stopped using business cards. I hate them. And so now if somebody tries to hand me their business card, I flip the— flip it around and say, oh, do you have LinkedIn? Let me just scan your code here. I'll show you how to do it. And I get them on my LinkedIn because then I can stalk them and they can follow me and know what I'm up to. And then We can actually build that relationship from there because we can engage with each other. I can follow you along on your journey. You can follow me along on mine. And we'll stay more updated on each other's progress, like rather than me just tossing you in the trash right when I get home.

Right. Or putting you or putting it in a Rolodex or whatever the whole thing, which also never happens. I have stacks and stacks.

Yeah.

I worked in the marine industry for a while and talk about these conferences. We were at these boat shows, right? And it was just, it was just, I'd come home with just stacks and stacks of people's cards, and they're still sitting on my dresser. Like, they're done. Yeah, never used them, never did anything with them, because most of the time it was somebody else, someone trying to sell us something. And so we were getting to collecting, just collecting cards, and what a waste of paper. Oh my God.

Yeah, and then half of these people, they leave, they're not at their job anymore. Yeah, they change jobs, don't work, and blah blah blah. Yeah.

So, so LinkedIn as, as one avenue, but in particular gives, gives you that stuff because as that, as that person then updates their own information, it's all right there and you're able to basically— and it kind of, it's agnostic kind of of where they work and what they do.

Well, let me ask you a question about what other platforms should business people be using, Chelsea, or what other platforms have you seen success with, or is it just LinkedIn that people should lean into?

I, for the most part, have been a LinkedIn junkie for a very long time. So that's probably my bread and butter and what I'm most experienced in. But I have seen Reddit is really good for thought leadership. There's a tool called Gummy Search where you can put in certain topics and it will condense all of those subreddits. and give you, you just click on hot topics, most worried about or pain points and all this stuff, different stuff. And it will basically curate all these different posts and you can see everything from a high level of what you need to comment on and go in. And that can be really, really good. I've tried this Fishbowl. One, um, I still get the notifications, but I don't really go on it as much. I don't know if it's gained a whole lot of traction.

That one with that fishbowl one, that was— wasn't that designed to be like— and the name of it always kind of struck me because it was like, isn't that almost the kind of thing where you put your business card inside a fishbowl at these events and things like that? Isn't that what— it was just interesting.

Yeah, I think so. Um, ENTRE is another one. Um, I used to— they had this Funders and Founders, like, power networking thing. And it was pretty cool. They have like this token type of thing. I haven't— nothing has really like caught on. And then there's also like these networking events you can find on Eventbrite that are virtual too.

Yep.

And if it's general, you are most likely going to waste your time and just listen to everybody talk. And, you know, it's not going to be super relevant. I find the ones that are pretty relevant are they have a high attendance rate. They're very niche-specific or focused on a specific topic. And it's for a certain set of people, either within the same industry or within the same like skillset, or there's something that's common in there. Like if you get a group of founders that are all fundraising and they all are putting in there what they do in their startups, like, something will pop out and be relevant, uh, to you. And so, um, those are the ones I find the most value in, um, or the ones that I would host, my virtual speed networking ones.

Yeah, I wanted, I wanted to actually jump in. That's a great segue because I wanted to jump into this. First of all, tell us a little bit about what you're building with BlackBook, okay? And then I also want to kind of touch on the speed networking thing because I think this is This has always been fascinating to me, right? The speed networking is a little bit like speed dating, right? And the idea that you get like 5 minutes or whatever to get in front of somebody and, and have a quick conversation about what they're doing and whatever. And you're just trying— all you're trying to see is that, is there something worth talking about more, right? Basically.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's pretty much it. And if you do the right targeting and get the right people in the right room talking to each other, especially at the right time, then You know, you are, you waste less time and get, you know, to opportunity a lot more faster. And so that's kind of what I'm trying to build with BlackBook is decreasing that time to value and creating more opportunities in a very short amount of time and measuring the outcomes of the people that I put in the room together. So, yeah.

What about, so, you know, a lot of people, again, there's a, there's a big, there's a long path Right, after networking to closing the deal.

Right.

Right. If you are obviously very analytically driven and all that stuff, and so the programs that you put together really are about conversion, right? And that as opposed to just the networking. So explain, talk about the things that kind of go into this kind of intentional way of being able to drive, you know, conversion from through networking.

Yeah, so I might have touched on it a little bit earlier when I was talking about the reciprocity factor, and the different ways that you can measure that, which is making an introduction, and sending them a helpful resource, or— I forgot the whole list of it.

You know, they'll do something for free.

Yeah, an exchange of value, right? The way I think of reciprocity is, Whatever I value in terms of something that you can do for me, then that's— if you've done something for me that I perceive of value, then that's valuable, right? And that's reciprocity. In the same way, if I do something that, you know, that you perceive as valuable, then hey, then we have an equal exchange of value and we have— we've come sort of to terms with each other. Like, I'm just not going to be giving stuff to Chelsea or, you know, John's not going to be just giving stuff to John. It's like it works both ways. And that's like the— That's a wonderful part of networking.

Yeah. And another good thing that I would do too is if I'm going to an event or a conference that's in a specific location, go look up who in your network is in that location, reach out to them, say you want to grab a cup of coffee, have lunch, do whatever, catch up. That will go super far and wide. Having that one-on-one face time with somebody that you are friends with offline, and then you make, you know, friends with them, right? Yeah.

In person, take someone on your, uh, you know, on your LinkedIn feed that you don't know, and when I'm gonna be in Salt Lake or whatever, wherever I'm gonna be, whatever, and say, oh, there's this thing, let's get together and have a cup of coffee and whatever. And people, yeah, people really appreciate the fact that you're like, oh wow, you're really trying to do this, right? Not everybody's going to be receptive to it. We know that too, right? Some people are just closed off and there's nothing and whatever. But the reality is, is that it's a, you know, there's so much that goes, like everything else, there's like so much that goes into the kind of intentional networking where you're doing it as a practice, right? Like the, this, the, you talked about earlier about getting over yourself, obviously, which we've talked about before, which is a huge, huge factor in all of this, whether you're, whether it's networking or creating content or, you know, or whatever. being able to kind of get past your, the view of yourself, which is probably not accurate. You know what I mean? Your authenticity also kind of matters in this aspect, doesn't it?

Yeah, it does. That's a big part of building. How well are you able to build trust with how many people and how long are you able to maintain it? That's your reputation. So you got to be good at what you do. And I think that might be why people are a little bit nervous. to put themselves out there is because they don't want to have something— we all have deals gone bad, right? We've all had clients that are bad seeds, bad eggs. It's never a good thing. But when we're trying to build our reputation and our authenticity, we want to be seen and be known as the go-to person, the really good trusted person that anybody could be You know, anyone would introduce you to. And so building that is— it can be overwhelming and it can be intimidating, you know. Um, and so I think that's why a lot of people—

And you think it's because— you think it's because people feel like, oh, I'm gonna let it— what happens if I let these people down or if I don't come through or whatever? So like, it's a confidence problem, really, right?

Yeah, yeah, it could be. Um, yeah. confidence, or you're just introverted. Um, yeah, you know, just kind of, kind of scared to put yourself out there. And it's kind of just, they don't want to— I don't know if they don't want to make a bad move, or they're scared of what other people will think about them. Right.

And they don't want to be misjudged or whatever, or that kind of thing, right? Yeah, that's— those, those are— these are, these are the, the emotional side of human beings, right? That is like, we, you know, and then we— this, this comes up in almost every single podcast, right, John? I mean, you know, on some level, right, this is— we can talk about business all we want and how it's all business and business and business is all numbers and whatever, and it's not emotion. But the reality is it's human beings that are conducting this business, you know, and there are always emotional, you know, sides to this thing, you know, that— and people's own, you know, the way that they respond to, you know, to anything. But I think that the thing that I find about what you're doing that is so amazing is there's a— there's, there's, there's, there's process to it, right? Like, you, you talked a little bit earlier about how you kind of had to go through the process of like, all right, showing up and being afraid to get out of the car and whatever, and then moving on to the next thing and whatever. What, what was the driver behind that? I mean, was it just a matter of you just saying, hey, look, you know, I, I, you know, was it a deep breath and I've got to do this to feed my family kind of thing? What was the motivator that allowed you to be able to kind of get over that?

Yeah, pretty much. I honestly, I had, being working in the cannabis industry and kind of going through a niche in a niche, it was very difficult because you have regulations. There's people who would not pay their invoices, still to this day don't. There's, there's, it's such an interesting dynamic that makes it the most volatile industry you could possibly ever want to have a business in.

Yeah.

Just the banking. Like my buddy started a business in Massachusetts, right? When they went live and it's like just opening a bank account, like things that like we take for granted. It's just like, nope, you can't even like some, in some states at the beginning you couldn't even do that. So it's, You know, basic things.

Yeah. And I mean, there was times where I was literally living out of my car and still trying to, you know, I'd had an office, I could do that, but I knew I had to like get out there and just grind. And so if you just do something that's like 1% more than you did yesterday, then you can, it'll compound and you'll get further and further along.

And so Right.

Just remember, like, if you— if it's very small, it can be very small. Like, it was just taking those steps of, okay, now I didn't, I didn't get out of the car, but now I got into the room. But now you're in the corner of the room and you're scared to go to other people and approach them, right? Stand in the middle of the room. And I, I did this crazy experiment. I went to Cancun last year for some dental work, and I was staying at this resort and this Like, overlooked everything beautiful. But there was a pool and they had a bar, right? And there was other people that were all, you know, a couple people around. And I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna see if I stand in the middle of the pool if anybody will come up to me. And like, by myself, you know.

They did, right?

Uh, yeah, actually, like, it just did. I mean, there, there— it was, it was really interesting. Um, but yeah, you just have to like Experiment, right? It's like, so if I do this, then this will happen. Let me look at somebody. So I started also, like, I started wearing something that was really catchy and flashy. I have this jean jacket that's all studded, that's red, that like totally stands out. It could be like wearing— what you wear also makes people want to come and talk to you because you look important, right?

So yeah, it's so funny you say that because I did the exact same thing that you just did And not because I just stood in the middle of the room, because I realized at one point when I was at a networking event, I was in the corner and I'm like, and I'm a really tall— I'm obviously a bald guy. I'm pretty tall too. So you stand in the middle of the room and I did that. And not that people were coming up to me like, you know, whatever, but a lot of some people just came up to me like standing by myself, having a drink in the middle of the room. People came up to you at a table. It's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's I don't know.

There's something about like the whole energy exchange thing and like your aura. And like, if you are like a positive, energetic person and you don't have that like self-doubt, I'm kind of scared, kind of, you know, not confident feel, people are going to want to come up to you versus, you know, if you're in the back of the room and you're a little bit scared and hesitant.

I mean—

No one's gonna notice you.

So, and this word, like the word influence keeps like coming up in my mind and I'm, and I'm, I don't know why, but like to a degree you're influencing people, right? When you're networking with people, you're sort of influencing them to, to sort of network with you and sort of either, either from like a reciprocity standpoint. So does, does how, because essentially when someone networks with you voluntarily or they come to that conclusion, you're influencing them to network with you. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. And so there's another thing too. Like when I first started too, along my little networking process, I would feel like I need to tell them everything I need to do, you know, and everything that how I can help them. And then you start to learn like everybody else, it's better to be silent and to not say anything and to let other people talk because it makes them feel better.

Right.

And it'll get them to open up and talk more. And it'll make them feel like they were actually heard. And it'll make you look like the more important person and the more respectable person because you gave them that time.

Right.

Interesting.

Okay. Yeah, there's, I don't know, I try to keep the conversations like really light and not about sales or like, you know, what I can do or how I can help people.

I kind of just ask them where they're at, what they're working on right now and where they're trying to go or what they're trying to That's a really good point because I think that's where a lot of people get hung up too, is like, well, what am I going to talk about? And, you know, and what am I going to do? And if I'm too salesy, you know, because again, depending on what you're doing, it's much easier, right, to be the person getting pitched, right, than it is to be the person pitching, right?

Yeah.

And again, there's those sales guys that we all know, those cowboys out there, you know, whatever, that are just really good and walk in and will start talking any, you know, whatever. But But even those guys will tell you that it's not about the thing I'm selling them, right? It is about the rapport I'm building and the trust and the, and the, and the interest in whatever and what I'm doing. And, and the way to— the best way to do that is by asking other people about what they're going through and what their pain is and where are they feeling and what, what's the thing that's hurting them right now.

Yep.

Because in these network events, even if it— whether it's a speed one or just a regular one where you're at or whatever, it's Like, there's not a lot of time, right? To like, you're— I don't think that most of the time this is the place to pitch anybody, right?

Yeah.

This is the place I think in your system it is. This is the top of the funnel.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's at the top of the funnel, but I'm trying to make it very narrowed and specific.

But to make this— make it a short—

but you're building rapport though, right, Chelsea? I mean, you're building rapport. You're to your point, you're listening, right? You've either asked an inquisitive question or you're getting them talking so that you can sort of find out more, right? It's like you're not just spewing words about the solution that you have. You ask them a question and get them talking so that maybe you can fit in, oh, that's interesting that you're talking about networking and you need to build your network. It's da da da da. And you go, you turn on and can do your skills to a degree.

Yeah, I, I kind of like to just open it up and let them tell me. And then I ask them kind of like, where, where, what's your next goal that you're trying to achieve? Or, you know, like you said, one of what's your next pain point? Because then that kind of triggers in my mind how I can help. And then I can be of service to you. And I might have somebody in my network, like I might not be able to help you, but I know somebody who can, and let me make that introduction. And you're one door away from somebody changing, you know, the trajectory of where you're going or how fast you can get there, like, just by making a simple intro, you know. So I kind of look at networking events as like, I'm going there to try and see if I can provide value to other people, because people within their network, they might know somebody who can also help me too.

Yeah, you've seen this, or you're seeing this valuable, right, to the value points, like, You may not— that person may not be a buyer of your services, but if you demonstrate value to them, then they'll be like, oh, that— you know who you should talk to? Like, I mean, oh, you should talk to Chelsea. And I try to do that all the time. It's like, oh wait, this is a person you need to talk to.

So yeah, you're trying to get people to remember you. That is your goal, is to be memorable. That's all you have to do. And you do that by Making an impact in somebody else's life. It could be small, it could be repetitive, but if you can get them to feel some type of way, some type of emotion, like, and really stand out, then they're going to mention your name. And anytime that comes up, they're going to come right back to you. And if you do that to enough people, right, then it compounds again and they all come back to you and you get more referrals that way too.

It's interesting. And it's the, the, the I've always tried to be a to be that you know especially on LinkedIn, and I have found people are so grateful. Like you know again they could go to it's not just me they're going to I'm sure whatever I've got you know six thousand at this point some you know six thousand some odd followers. But the but the what I found is that people have come and said sometimes will say hey I'm trying to do X Y and Z I'm looking for just this other day this is a real story someone came to me yesterday and was asking for some kind of Oh, we're looking for a distributor in the United States for this health and beauty product, whatever. And that's not, you know, not my niche. But I was like, look, it's— I said, look, it's not my niche, but I'm happy to— if you have content, I'm happy to repost it to my network, right? And put that out there to everybody. Then you might find somebody who's able to help you that I don't even know, right? So even the reposting of— and they were just like, oh my God, thank you, do that. thank you so much. And I'm sitting here going, it's no skin off my back.

Not much, right?

I'm like, whatever. But they really— but people really appreciate it because they really are, especially because on LinkedIn, people are really trying hard, right, to like, to build their networks, to get their stuff out there, to use the LinkedIn as a way of, you know, getting leads or even conversions directly. And again, it might just be— it might be jobs. I post— I repost every single job thing that I see.

Yeah, well, and also, um, this— I, this— I can't— the statistic, I swear, on, on applying for jobs is the response rate that applicants get is 1 to 2%. 80% of your job opportunities comes from your network, right? And that is all you have to do is tap into that.

And yes, right?

Yes. And ask.

Well, and also, so many of the jobs are not even posted. Right? Like, you see the, you know, that job response rate sort of is frightening, but like a lot of the, of the jobs that, you know, the higher-level jobs just, they never get posted on wherever other, you know, those sites like LinkedIn and all those other sites.

So yeah. Whether you're looking for a job or you're looking for whatever, the sale or whatever, it's all the same process, right? In this case, you're selling it yourself, you're selling or whatever. But so many times I know that I did this because again, I was one of those people who was like, oh, Uh, you know, I don't want to seem desperate, or I'm afraid that, you know, people are going to say no or whatever, or, you know, or I'm bothering them, or any of that other BS stuff that, that might— that's my mother in my head, right?

Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Um, you know, don't put other people out, you know what I mean? Whatever. It's like, no, the, the, the, the thing about whether you're— whether it's a job search or you're looking for a new business or whatever the thing is You got to ask people for the thing you want so that they know what it is, right? And the worst thing they can do to you is say no.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Onto the next. Same as a sales process. You know, you cold call, you're going to get, or even like when they, when you send your investor deck to investors, you have to get like 100 nos before you get a yes, right? Like it's, it's the same thing. So yeah.

And by the way, each one of those, each one of those nos is a potential learning opportunity.

Exactly. Exactly. And I really appreciate like the investors that give me feedback on what I should improve. Then there's the, you get too much feedback and you don't know which one to follow, you know?

And well, someone told me recently, and maybe it was last like 4 months ago, it's like if you view feedback as a gift, it changes your whole perspective, right? Because a lot of people, and myself included, took feedback early in my career as a critique. And it's like, oh, if you take feedback as a critique, A, you're going to get defensive. B, it's like, what is it? Why would I listen to this person? And when you change your perspective, it's like, oh no, wait, that's like they didn't have to say anything, right? Like when you give them— when you— when they— when you get feedback, it's a gift. It's like, okay, it's like that's— that's good. Like, I can— I can work with that.

Yeah. Yeah. I admire and appreciate feedback, especially from people that have more experience than I do in a particular or particular, particular specific field. Yeah.

Let me ask you a question about sort of not to pivot, but like, you know, like virtual networking, right? Because we're all talking about, we've talked about LinkedIn and like how to connect with people. But like, if you're doing like a, like a networking event or a virtual networking event, what is your, like, do you have, do you have any tips and tricks or thoughts or Best practices to sort of get the juices flowing, if you will?

I tend to try and look up who's attending first before I actually attend the event. And then I look up like the organizer to get a feel of who their audience is and if it's going to be relevant and valuable for my time to be there. And so I do a lot of research before actually going into it. And then once I am into it, depending on the format, sometimes it's like, okay, we're gonna go around the room and everybody tell them what they're looking for and how they can help, right? And then it's, you're just sitting there like listening. Okay, great. That's wonderful. And then you waste a lot of time that way because it's not specific, you know, or it's, you just have to look at like the industry, like kind of like what I was mentioning earlier.

Right.

Their job titles, who it is. But 9 times out of 10, um, and I always say this to everybody that wants to go to networking too, if you go to like a general networking event or like if it's local and it doesn't have— it's not specific, it doesn't have specific people or industry, everyone is going in— everyone who is going to be in the room are all looking for the same thing, right? It's either new business or a job. And if you put everybody in the same room who's looking for the same thing, what value is that gonna create? Right.

That's a good point. Right. And I like the preparation too, though. Like the prep, you know, obviously prepare, get as much information as possible beforehand and sort of focus on those people who hope you're— who you believe are attending to, like, you know, meet with them.

So. Yeah. And if you can, if you know who's attending and who you wanna meet with, reach out to 'em before and say, hey, I noticed you were going to this event. I would love to have, you know, just 15 minutes of your time. Virtual coffee chat or, you know, in-person coffee chat, either way.

It also makes it efficient, right? So that when you get there, you've got a plan, right? Because that's the other thing is that that can really arm you and give you some confidence and stuff too, I imagine, right?

Oh, big time.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm gonna talk to this person and this person. I've got these 3 or 4, you know, coffee things set up, whatever. So I know I've got those, right? And the reality is, is that out of those, and again, if you really are networking and using the network effect, then Part of every conversation should also be, even if it's— even if you land on somebody who's like your ideal client persona, right, and you're right there and it's a done deal, you got to also ask for the next person. Yeah, like, who else do you know that might want this or whatever? Is there anybody else here right now that you know that I could go, you know, that you'd be willing to introduce me to?

Yeah, and, and just like, um, When I had ran my agency in that whole cannabis space and I made, you know, I knew people that own HubSpot agencies and I made friends with them that weren't specific to cannabis, but they knew I was niching up in that space and experience in there. So then when I got a referral 5 years later, when I'm out of it, they knew I have a network and I know people and I know how it works and I have all that knowledge and that network of people.

Right.

So I could be pretty valuable. And then I get the client. Well, there was, you know, I have a friend that is, she's a social media manager and I've worked with her on, with clients and different projects before in the past. I brought her in on the deal because I think she can manage a great part that I don't have time for. I do more strategy work, you know? And so we've worked together on different clients and clients that have gone bad and sour and we're still friends. And we've gone through it together and it's easier to accelerate somebody where you have that network and help a company grow. But also bring your friends along the way. Make friends and provide them consistent value by bringing them in either on deals, making them an intro, giving them a job. I have another friend who's almost like an advisor to me who worked for a medical device company and I was looking for project work, so I ended up making ebooks for this medical device company for a period of time. And then, you know, I had an opportunity, he was looking for work, and I kind of intro'd him. You know, it's— so it goes both ways. But if you can bring good people along with you along the way professionally, and you know that they're, they're good and they have— you don't have to think About like, what if this goes wrong or they're not skilled or experienced? And it's just kind of like, uh, there's those certain type of contacts that if you are an investor, you don't need to see their deck. You don't need to actually vet them out. You can go and be like, okay, I trust you. So, right, well, because it's—

yeah, it's the person, it's the personality a lot of times, like, right? The deck doesn't really matter. You're— that would And what VCs are doing and what we've seen with investors is they're investing in the person, right? They're looking at Chelsea, they're looking at Joe, they're looking at John and be like, do I trust this person, right? Would I want to have dinner with this person? And, you know, are they— do they have, you know, they have an idea of what they're doing? Yes. Okay. I'm investing in them. The idea is sort of secondary.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think, and I think especially with investors, there's investing in you. You have to remember that an investor is going to be your partner. And I think this is where people also kind of forget, right? It's like they're looking at the money, but what they don't understand is that what comes with that money, okay, is that person. And that person is looking at you as the founder going, is this someone I want to hang out with, right?

Yeah.

Is this someone that I'm not just giving you money and walking away and hoping the thing turns out? No, no. I'm It is a very much a strategic partnership. It is very much a you know, and so the that's why that's why the that's why it's so hard. It's it's it's less about the money itself and more about the fact that it's like it's like I have a limited resources. I need to choose as an investor. I need to choose investments that I believe in and that I think are going to obviously going to pay me dividends and whatever and work out. But at the same time, I can't put all I don't have. I have a finite amount of money. And so, I've got to be selective. And everybody, every investor is select— differently selective, has a different process, a different thing, whatever. And they've got personalities and they've got, you know, and there's a lot of investors out there too who are, who have never done this before either, right? So, don't, you know, not everybody, not everybody who has money is an expert at having money. You know what I mean? Yeah.

No. And I think you can attract the right one. Like, I'm fundraising, but I have, I'm also doing my, I have 2 clients, my fractional work. And so, um, I, my startup kind of gets put to the side a little bit, but I think if there's a lot of founders I see that are reaching out one time, and if they don't get the yes the first time, then they just kind of, you know, fizzle off. And I think to keep them in the loop, you have to constantly keep them updated. So send a monthly update. On the progress that you're making. And then you can keep top of mind, especially when they keep going into their inbox and they're— it's, it's fresh. If you can create something new or progress every single month and have something to report on, then I feel like you'll get noticed a lot more.

Well, listen, that's great advice. Great advice. I mean, I think that's very important for founders, you know, who are potentially looking for capital to understand that it is just because someone says no today doesn't mean that down the line Right, that they're not going to be interested. And, or, and again, or know someone else who is, right? And so the more you're out there— now, you, you have, uh, you have a newsletter, right?

Yeah, I've kind of, uh, pushed pause on it, um, recently, but I am looking to pick it back up.

But the newsletter thing, right, is, is a, it's a great way of doing exactly what you just said, that, you know, that, that, you know, is to basically say, hey, look, for my entire network, this is what I'm up to and this is what I'm doing. And so getting that isn't just a business development thing necessarily, right? Having a newsletter and getting that information out there or keeping your network updated with what you're doing on a regular— and it's not just a post either, right? It's like there's— it's more of a digest, right? It's like, Yeah. this is what's been going on in my life. And whether it's once a month or once a quarter, it's probably a good idea to be able to keep that network that you're growing, informed on what it is exactly that you're doing and how things are going, right?

Yeah. It's interesting because once you start making moves, like, and I've made a bunch of wrong moves. I'm not accelerating to success overnight. You see these people on LinkedIn that are like, oh, I got to $0 to $1 million ARR in like 6 months.

Except it took 5 years for me to figure that out.

Yes. Well, because it's like they're real people, right? Those aren't real people. Right? The people that you're posting about, like, they, that they never have failures, they, they don't have problems, you know, they apparently don't sleep, right? They, you know, they, they're, they're up at 4:30, they're up till 2:30 in the morning. It's like they have all these— They have all these crazy routines. It's like, you know, it's like if they're not— if they're telling you all those things, imagine the things they're hiding. Like, as opposed to when you meet a person and an investor meets a real person, and a real person with like faults and problems and issues. It's like, yeah, they're just like me, right? All these investors that are investing your money, they're just like you. They have problems. Their kids at their door, like, doesn't know you're recording something, as an example. And it's like, they're just— they're bothering you and doing all sorts of things. They're just like you.

So yeah, and I think that's probably one of the things that I struggle with is the professional and the personal, because I feel like it's unprofessional to have personal issues, you know, but then it's also like, you know, it's, it's—

And relatable.

Yeah, it's relatable. And so I don't know, there's a— but I think the newsletter is a very good way to kind of portray that, right? Like, there's— I've been— I have a section in there that's like updates on, on Black Book, and then there's the events that I put every week that people can attend, and then there's I have one that's like down the rabbit hole. It's new tech and tools that I find. Or I'll go in depth on a certain topic, like when LinkedIn changed their algorithm and, you know, just different things. It's a great way to just put what you have up there. And like, I've created like TikToks and something personal and put it in there. And, you know, people still see it and get noticed.

So, I mean, the, the, look, I, I, the, the ones, the, the highest engagement posts that I have on LinkedIn are ones where I talked about something personal or showed my, my daughter or my son or any of that stuff on, you know, in that, in that thing and made it a relatable post. Every, I mean, I get, it's just, it's clockwork. It's, it's that, it really is. It's simply a matter of saying people are really relating when they can see somebody who just looks and feels Like what they're going through. And I think especially in LinkedIn too, we have hit a time in LinkedIn that is aligning with maybe some other things that are happening in human history too, in terms of people kind of starting to become more aware of the fact that, you know, maybe if I'm just out here being my authentic self, doing an honest day's thing for, you know, and showing how I do it and helping other people without expecting anything back, Right? That, that what I will do is get all this stuff back, right? Like, it's like— When you're putting out in the world.

Yeah, what you're putting out in the world will come back to you. And that goes back to reciprocity we talked about earlier, right? It's like you put stuff out there, you get stuff back.

But the idea is that put the stuff out there first. Yes, you know, exactly right, Joe.

Yeah.

Without the expectation of it coming back. And then it won't come back from everybody. It will come back from The people it really resonates with. Oh, and by the way, the people it really resonates with are the people who are going to be your best customers. They're going to be your best clients, right?

Yeah, because they've been following your journey along for so long. I, when I started these like speed networking events, this was when I was in the cannabis space during COVID I wanted to generate more leads for myself, and I like this one specific feature on this big event platform and just wanted to do that one thing, which which was these speed networking events. And so I ran a couple of them and then I ended up having a baby and throwing up for an entire year. So I took a break. But then a couple years down the road, the thought of like, okay, if I could do this for one industry, I could do it for many because I created so many opportunities for other people in the process when I was trying to generate leads for myself.

Right.

So here I am, all these, you know, it's like 5 years later that from when I wanted to do these, you know, the speed networking idea. And I had somebody who was an OG who attended my cannabis events that isn't even in the cannabis industry. She's a trademark attorney. She started attending my events again and was like a big fan.

So funny.

And, you know, it's just Like, and she's like, I've been following your journey. I, I, I am, I, I, I'm, you know, a fan and I love what you're doing. And she has, you know, it's, it's amazing when you have those like day ones that are like, yeah, I've been following you and I know all about you.

And this is the way, again, this is the way that the world has changed. And, and, you know, John, I can't speak for you, Chelsea, but John and I are, you know, of a certain age. It has been, uh, you know It is more difficult for us to be able to have made this adjustment, you know what I mean, than I think that it is maybe for, for the, you know, next generation down and whatever. Um, but I have— I can stress to you that if you are, you know, in the— in your 50s or even your 60s or whatever, that it is not too late, right, to do any of this.

Yeah.

Um, and to take advantage of these platforms and to be able to get over yourself and get out to those networking events and take this intentional approach to things. And to be able to put yourself out there content-wise on video and all that stuff, you know, and, and to tell people and to forget what you're, you know, what there's an entire generation of us that were raised to be like, like to keep my, all our stuff private and don't talk about ourselves and shameless self-promotion is a sin and blah, blah, blah and all that stuff. And that's just not the case. It's, it's okay when it is, there's bragging. Right. And then there's, then there's just offering.

Yeah.

There's 2 different things.

Yeah. Or just being educational about it. Like, so with demand gen, I, I run campaigns all the time. I run different types of campaigns. I love testing. I want to see what works, what doesn't. And me sharing my results, people love it because it's a tested idea or theory that they can either lead with or rule out, you know. So Put down whatever you're testing, whatever you're trying, um, and your results from that, like, it will get a lot of traction, you know.

Um, yeah. Well, yeah, awesome. So, um, Chelsea, you're amazing. You're, first of all, you're, you're an amazing human being anyway, and I want everybody to know that. And I think that when people know your story and, and, and where you come from and the way that you have pivoted, been able to pivot and And the, you know, it is not— I know it's not been easy for you, but your ability, your story is amazing. And I think everybody should get to know Chelsea, no question about it. And you'll see us obviously, you know, on LinkedIn in the next few weeks spending a lot of time with Chelsea there too. But Chelsea, talk to us about what you're offering right now, how people can get in touch with you to talk about this, and what's the best way for people to kind of reach out?

Yeah, so you can go to chelseamotor.com. That's my website. I haven't updated it, so it might be a little outdated. But honestly, just connect with me on LinkedIn. That's probably the best way. If you want to reach me by email, it's just my first and last name at Gmail. It's probably going to be better than sending me a DM on LinkedIn because my inbox gets quite full and I have to go clear that out from now and then. And so I might miss you. You can also subscribe to my newsletter, which is subs.blackbook.io. You can sign up for the waitlist for BlackBook if you just go to blackbook.io.

And by the way, we should say, we'll put this in the show notes, but BlackBook is spelled B-L-K-B-O-O-K, correct?

Yes.

Yes.

Right.

So it's B-L-K-B-O-O-K.io.

Yep.

Excellent. Chelsea, so thank you so much, you know, for being here. You know, we, we, we, we, I think it's important for, you know, for the founders to understand, or anybody who owns a business, right, is to understand that networking of any kind, and that's whether you're searching for new business, whether you're networking for capital, whether you're networking, you know, for suppliers or for, you know, for anything that happens from a cost reduction standpoint, You know, networking isn't just about new business, first of all, right? I mean, but the other thing is that the idea behind networking, what, you know, as Chelsea told us, that you need reciprocity and it needs to be intentional, right? And you need to be able to do a little bit of homework on who your audience is and who you are actually and what you actually want from them. But the most important thing I think we're taking away from this, Chelsea, is this, is to, especially if it's whether it's virtual or in person, is You know, first of all, be yourself, right? Be your authentic self, right? Allow people to get to know who you are, right? Build a rapport, which is going to build trust over time, right? And you're going to— and don't forget to ask people for what it is that you're actually asking them for, right? Because you'll be surprised, I think, at how people basically will potentially help you, you know, at least give you a connection or give you an idea or something You never know who you are speaking to and the connections that they have.

It is amazing to— you can have somebody that looks like they are a train wreck and haven't showered for days, and they know the most, you know, highest royal type of person that they can land you an introduction to.

Or like your ideal customer profile. Like they could be sisters or brothers or whoever with like your ideal customer profile. It's so funny.

Exactly. I got an introduction on LinkedIn. It was from one of my campaigns. And he goes, oh, my brother is looking for somebody just like you with your skills and experience. And honestly, they need a woman, not, you know, 2 technical men. And so I was like, great, I need them as much as they need me.

Look, and that's, that's the beauty of alignment, you know what I mean? And I think, again, we're all trying out there and And, and, and again, those of us of a certain generation have been, you know, kind of taught that we had to kind of manhandle everything and force our way into things and whatever. But the reality is that, that the, the— it's about more about attraction, right, than it is about anything else. Like, you can attract that stuff if you are just— right?

It's okay to ask for help, right? It's okay, you know, like, it's not, it's not a bad thing.

People actually like it. They like to help.

They like to help. It makes them feel It makes them feel valuable, like they did a good deed and that they actually made an impact in somebody's life. So it's not bad to ask for help.

That's all. We'll leave it there. That's the perfect ending. It's okay to ask for help, and networking and intentional networking is going to do that for you. Guys, listen, go talk with Chelsea Moder. Go see what she's about. Check out her LinkedIn profile. Look at Black Book. It's blkbok.io. We'll have this all in the show notes. But she's the kind of person who's gonna help you, you know, figure out, helping you get over yourself and strategically kind of help you look at your networking, what can actually drive a strategic kind of approach to this that will actually drive conversions, not just connections. Chelsea, thank you so much for being here today on the ExitEngine Podcast. We really appreciate it.

Thank you. I appreciate it too.

Awesome. Hey, John, buddy, you know, how much have we learned about this stuff over the last year or so, right? I mean, Chelsea's just another great example, obviously, on this networking thing. But the reality is, is that the social media side of things, the ability to be able to be out here the way that we are on this podcast, the ability to kind of get over yourself really makes a huge— can make a huge difference in your business and the value of your business.

Yeah. And even, you know, not even if you're an introvert, but like, Think about it like, right, an introvert is doing a net— has started a company with like to help you network, right? Like, isn't that in and of itself just an interesting thing to check out, right?

Yeah.

Like, how does she do it as an introvert? I mean, that just fascinates me. But maybe I'm, you know, I'm on the podcast. But yeah, check it out. We've learned so much about, about networking from Chelsea and the ways that people— anybody can do it, right? There's, there's a system, there's a process. There's preparation. It's not, you know, people think like, oh, they go into a cocktail party, they go into a networking event, and they need to figure it out all before, like all at that point. No, no, you can prepare. You can do things before if you're a prep person, um, and you're not sort of fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants type of person. Prepare before and network with intention.

That's exactly right. I'm excited to see Black Book. I think it's going to be a really cool thing, and then we're going to see a lot more Hopefully, we'll see a lot more Chelsea around here at ExitEngine as well. Guys, thanks so much for listening to the ExitEngine Podcast. One programming note, we are starting a community. Speaking of networking and ecosystems, we are starting a community of our own. It's called the ExitEngine Community, the ExitEngine Ecosystem. Right now, we are getting details together. This stuff is being built out. There are 100 monkeys in the background kind of building this thing out, right? But the reality is, is that we want you to stay informed on updates about what is coming and when it is coming. So if you go right now to myexitengine.com, you're going to see an email form. All we're going to ask you for is to give us your email address, and we're going to keep you updated on what happens with this, with the ExitEngine ecosystem. The ecosystem is going to be all about exit planning, all the things that you can do to be able to learn how to do that. You're gonna get content, you're gonna get access to people like Chelsea and all the other advisory partners that you've heard on here on the Exit Engine Podcast before. And you're gonna help you set your exit trajectory and figure out how to build and grow your business and grow the saleability and the value of your business so that you can make an exit on your own terms. So again, go to www.myexitengine.com right now, get your email address in there. give us your email address and we will get this information out to you. And looking for this launch at some point coming up in September. Thanks again, everybody, for listening to the ExitEngine Podcast. If you want to get in touch with Jon or I, you know how to do this. Please go to LinkedIn. It's Jon Kniff or Jo Stapleton at LinkedIn. You can also email us directly at jo@myexitengine.com or jon@myexitengine.com if you have any question about your exit plan or what you plan to do or anything that's involved with the growth of your business towards a sale on your own terms. Thanks again for listening, everybody, today. We'll talk to you guys next time. John, as always, buddy, thank you so much.

Thanks, Joe.