Episode 15 | Lead Generation For Changing Markets

Oops.

Hey everybody, we're live. Welcome back to the New and Experienced Investor Podcast. I'm one of your hosts, Alex Barnett. I'm the new guy.

And my name is Joe Homs and I'm the old guy, I guess.

You're the experienced guy.

Oh, the experienced guy. Yes. Okay.

Today we're gonna be talking about lead generation. This is something everybody, I think, that reaches out to us has a question about. How do I get these leads? Whether you're an agent, you're an investor doing anything in real estate, how do we get these leads? And I kind of wanted to bring it up because in my own business, I'm kind of pivoting and doing some different things with the changing market, different interest rates. What would you say is the starting point to generate leads for a new investor?

Doing something. Hmm.

You're saying people don't do things?

No, they don't do things. They don't do things. It's, it's taking action. And whether that's pulling a list from a source of, let's say, absentee owners or In my case, I've been recruiting real estate agents to Pelago, and I literally just set up a text campaign texting everybody here in the Orange County area. I've hired about 10 people from that text campaign, and I'm moving now into Riverside, and I'll continue to do that. But it's literally taking action is what I would say is the hardest thing for people to do.

How big of a list was the list that you pulled of agents since you signed up 10?

I think there is about, I wanna say about 10,000 agents.

Yeah.

It took about, I would say, close to 2 months to go through all that because I just can't text 10,000 people in one day 'cause that's not gonna work. They're gonna cut you off. So you text a few people every day and then the people that are interested respond. It sends them another text with the information, and then I follow up with them the next day. Hey, you know, you expressed an interest, and do you have any further questions? And go from there.

Yeah, and I think that's something people really underestimate is the amount of volume that you kind of need when you're doing your lead generation or outreach. So, so you can do— there's sort of 2 different styles of lead generation. You can do outbound, which is the cold calling And the texting or sending direct mail. And, you know, that's sort of an unsolicited reach out. Or you can do inbound, which people are starting to really dive into, which is the Facebook ads, PPC, anything like that, to where people are filling out a form and then you are calling them later. So depending on, you know, your style, what you like, and then I'm really seeing just depending on the market, you may want to pivot back and forth from each one. Obviously, cold calling is tried and true no matter what business you're in. That's just pulling a list and, you know, dialing these numbers. But again, I think when people reach out to you and they're like, I want to get a deal, this or that, they're thinking they have to call 100 people and they're going to get a deal. You have to be calling like thousands of people.

Absolutely.

It's a numbers game.

Absolutely.

And, you know, so it depends on your budget. You know, when you pull lists, there's a charge for doing that, and you don't get everything with that list that you pull. You have to skip trace them and get their phone numbers. You can even skip trace and get emails. With the pay-per-click stuff, it is pretty much voluntary that they click on it, and then obviously they charge you when they click. And then if you have a form to fill out, they charge you an additional fee for that. So depending on how much you have in that form to fill out, Um, you know, Google and Facebook and all the rest of them will charge you additional fees for that stuff. So it really kind of depends what your budget is and what you're looking to do and how much you're willing to spend. But, uh, to answer your question, yes, you, you have to, you have to mass market to people and, uh, and then be ready to take the, you know, the warm leads instead of the, the negative ones that you do Yeah, absolutely.

And that's kind of, um, one thing I'm, I'm really looking into right now because we, we would just do a blanketed absentee owner list, just somebody that has a property that they're not living in that is a rental or a vacation property or what have you, and then marketing to them. But now I'm noticing because, um, the interest rates are so high and they have a low one, people, they just don't want to move right now. They just don't want to move on. They don't want to sell. So I'm—

Yeah.

Going to be pivoting towards more niche lists and doing what's called list stacking. So finding an absentee owner and then matching that with pre-foreclosure, maybe vacant property. And you can find— pull all 3 of those lists, and then you can use software to line them up. And then it says, yo, this person's on like 4 lists.

Got it.

So, um, and then really honing in Texting, calling, and then if they're local, you know, knocking on their door.

Yeah.

So that's, that's one thing I'm kind of thinking about pivoting towards, especially with the texting. I know we've been dabbling into the pre-foreclosure, and I want to double down on that as well, and auctions and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, that's a good list. What, what lists have you seen over The years, I guess, that are just tried and true, if people had to pick one?

I'd say, you know, what I call the low-hanging fruit is what— just what you were talking about. It's pre-foreclosure. So these are people that have stopped making their mortgage payment. And so the bank sends out a notice of default letter, and that gets recorded, and that's public record. And it's, it's like these people are raising their hands and they're saying, hey, I need help. Um, you know, whether, whether they want to listen to the help that you're giving them or offering them, that's a different story. But those are the easiest ones to go after because, you know, you already know that they're having difficulty. They're going to get foreclosed on. Foreclosure process is 3 months and 21 days. So it's— there's a time frame that they need to get something done. If not, they're going to lose the their property and whatever equity that's left in their property is going to be gone. So, um, there's more of an urgency with those types of leads than with just pulling an absentee owner lead and just calling, literally just calling and saying, hey, I'm an investor in the area. Uh, and I bought a couple of places down from you. Are you interested in selling your home? You know, that's, that's like really, really cold. That's ice cold.

That's ice cold.

You know, that's ice cold, but Sometimes they answer yes.

Yeah, I mean, it works. It's, it's worked for me the whole time I started wholesaling. I think that people maybe just have a misconception of how long it can take, and it's hard to tell when you're doing the really cold outreach, you know, you're gonna have a deal in X or, you know, 30, 60, 90 days, because it all depends on how much you're putting into it. So that's something to consider.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Uh, before we move on, make sure you guys share this. We're starting to do lives every Thursday, uh, between 3 and 4 PM. Um, so share this with anybody that's looking to get into investing or is already an investor. We bring on guests, we talk about, um, you know, topics of the month. Um, you know, and you guys can also reach out to us and, you know, if you have a question or anything that we can bring up on the show, that would be, that would be great. But go to YouTube, uh, we're gonna be streaming on Facebook as well, and just click the little share button and, you know, send it to a friend or put it on your page. Um, another list that I've been seeing people go after is no equity lists.

Mhm.

So ones that are on the market and then just pitching the agent a sub-2.

Mhm.

And a lot of times, you know, when you lay it out to them and they You know, for whatever reason, they, they bought a property like a year and a half ago. They got to sell. There's no equity in it. They're going to come out of pocket with that. But maybe they have a really good interest rate. So I've been, I've been seeing some people go after those. And I think that's a list we're going to—

And those are more of an education process, not only for the seller, but really for the listing agent as well. It's like, okay, what is subject to? What is owner financing? And you sit there and I've heard you on the phone. You're sitting there and explaining You know, to an agent, what is subject to and how do you how do I do that? And yeah, how do I benefit from that? Because that's what everybody wants is is some sort of benefit when there's little or no equity. It's it's it's a little difficult to put the deal together. But I mean, if you have somebody like you know on our buyers list of somebody that's actually looking for a home to move into, and you know they have the ability to move into it for. you know, $20,000, $30,000, which pays us our fees and maybe the other agent's fees and stuff like that, right? And not have to qualify for a loan.

Yeah.

Um, and literally just take over the payment, the existing payment that's on there. Um, those, those are attractive deals. So yeah, it takes a little bit more explaining.

Sure.

Uh, and the logistics and, you know, this is how you're supposed to do it, but those are really good deals.

Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. And it's funny because, you know, just being in the community of like creative financing, all people will post the responses that they get from agents and they'll say like, I sent this over to my broker, this is illegal, you can't do this. I told my client I wouldn't, you know, not to go for it. And so I think what people start with is, hey, we're gonna pay your commission up front, you're still getting that.

Yeah.

And then we'll actually put some money into the pocket of the, the seller. And then, you know, if there's enough spread, obviously you can wholesale the deal, or like you said, you know, find an end buyer, like a family that wants to move into it that maybe has the, the resources as far as down payment, but, you know, for whatever reason they can't qualify.

So—

Correct. Yeah, I mean, they can't qualify for a 7% loan, but You know, the loan that's on there is at, uh, 3, 3.5, 4%. They can qualify for that, you know. So yeah, why not put that type of deal together and make everybody happy?

Yeah, yeah. So that's another list I'm going after. I was gonna go after and try, um, expired listings or, you know, failed listings just to, you know, reach back out because those people at one point did raise their hand and say they wanted to sell, but for whatever reason You know, they couldn't make it happen. So I'm going to be going after that. And then, like we mentioned, pre-foreclosures. And I'm trying to think of anything else sort of with the changing market of there being less people wanting to sell. It's really just, I think, niching down and finding people that are already raising their hand.

Yeah, the expired listings. Um, I, I don't go after those because they're just like so difficult.

Okay.

Um, and the reason they're difficult is, number one, if it expired, it probably was listed too high to begin with, and they— the listing agent just could not talk these people down to a reasonable price, uh, because obviously everybody knows more than the listing agent in the transaction. Yeah, you know. Um, and so when it expires, literally the next day, within hours Agents get an email alert if they're subscribed to, um, expired listing company. And there's agents literally calling. I had one agent, uh, she told me she has these baskets prepared that she would literally drop off.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

Okay.

Uh, to try to get that listing again.

Wow.

Um, I never went that far, but, you know, I would make calls and it's like, you're the 20th person that has called me today, you know? No, I don't want to list my house. And okay, you know, and you know, badmouth the listing agent, right? You know, it really wasn't deserved. It was them that had the issue, not the listing agent themselves. Yeah, but you know, you can only do so much, and that's why I don't go after them. And if you want to try, yeah, believe me, you know, try it. Like I tell people all the time, it's your money. You can spend it however you want. You know, I don't do mailers either, right? You know, because mailers. Mailers, you— what do you do when you get a piece of mail at your home? I mean, when I get it, it literally goes straight into the trash can. I don't even look at it.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, I can tell, especially if it's, you know, generated by a computer or something, it's not handwritten.

Yeah.

I can tell that, you know, it's going to be, you know, somebody soliciting me for something or, or something like that. It's just like, it just goes in the trash. So again, it's your money. You can spend it however you'd like.

Yeah.

You know, if you wanna take my advice and my experience, don't do mailers.

Yeah. And it's funny because you can always find the success story for each of these. And I think it just comes down to maybe what is your personality? What's your threshold for rejection? 'Cause if you are, if you can't take a no, then maybe inbound is more of your, bag because, you know, these are people that are saying, yeah, I do want an offer. And maybe there's no deal, but there's actually people that are saying, I at least want an offer. So I know some people, they're just like, I can't handle the no, the rejection every time to get to the yes, so I'd rather do inbound.

Oh yeah, you definitely have to have thick skin. Yeah, I get, you know, from my text campaign to the, to the agents, I get people that respond, and then I get on the phone with them and, you know, Why would I go to you? I'm a broker already. What do I go to you for? And I'm thinking, well, why'd you say yes? You wanted to, you know, talk to me. It's like, come on, you know.

It's like they were baiting you.

What, you just wanted to talk to me to tell me that you would never come, you know, work for me?

Wanted to shut you down.

Like, wow. It's like, okay, you know, have a nice day, you know. Let's move on to the next one.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it kind of Builds your, your skin after going through it. You know, even just starting out when I first called, I was so scared to talk to anybody. And then now it's, you know, if it doesn't work, it's just—

And now we can't get you off the phone. You know, every time I walk in the office, he's on the phone with somebody. And it's like I sit in my office and listen to him for like half hour, 45 minutes. And this guy hasn't really said anything about the property. It's, it's all about his life and how hard it was. The reason he got into this.

Yeah.

There's so much rapport building, but 45 minutes is like, yeah, I'm telling you, I'm going like this.

You could do— call someone else.

Call somebody else. Yeah, this one's done.

Yeah, move on.

And then you have those guys, you know, the smart aleck guys, you know, I actually like them. Yeah, yeah. Joe, uh, I'll sell you the property. You give me a million dollars, you put it in a duffel bag, you go over to the local park You put it in the trash can there and you text me when it's there. I'll come pick it up and I'll sell it to you right away.

Oh my gosh.

Okay. Yeah. Let's do that.

You know, let's do that.

Yeah.

You get, yeah. If you have a sense of humor, I'll, I'll, you know, I'll play ball.

Yeah.

So you gotta have fun with it. But, um, like you said, going back to budget, you know, this could be something if you're just starting out, if you have the budget, let's say you're working a W-2 job. You can just go on— there's certain websites where they have marketplaces of leads where people are already having PPC campaigns, and it will, you know, it'll show you like, hey, there's a lead here that you can purchase. And they're usually between like $300 to $400 depending on your market. You know, if you're in like Muncie, Indiana, it'll probably go down to like $100. But, you know, in the bigger markets, you're gonna spend about $300. So maybe you have the funds, you can just go and purchase leads and talk to those sellers, and, you know, they'll list out all the motivation and everything, and someone had— has already done a first touch. So, you know, depending on your budget, you can really— there's a lot of different ways that you can go as far as lead generation goes.

Yes, but I've always found that if you start from the bottom and do your own, you're way better off.

Yeah.

You know, there's real estate companies out there, I won't mention their names, but they market to real estate agents all the time. And here, pay us $700 a month and we'll send you leads that we get on our website. And they turn out to be really junk leads, you know. It's like, yeah, you're gonna have to go through all that stuff, but yeah, do I want to pay $700 a month for some junk leads that I'm going to get from these companies?

No.

Yeah, I, I don't do that. I, again, I'd just rather Kind of, you know, learn how to do it yourself and do it yourself. It's not that difficult.

Yeah, it's really not. Yeah, it's just being consistent. That's, that's the hardest thing for people.

And doing it.

Yeah.

You know, and doing it, just make a plan.

Okay.

This is what I'm going to do. You know, I'm going to wake up in the morning and I'm gonna start calling at 10 and go to 12, or I'm going to hire a virtual assistant, you know, cost $4 or $5, $6 an hour. And I'm going to give them the list and they're going to call. Um, 'cause they can call a lot more people than you can. They can probably go through 100 people in an hour and just literally just instruct them. I just want the yeses.

Okay.

Just as you're calling, hey, we're calling from, you know, such and such a company and we're looking to buy homes in your area. Uh, we're looking to pay cash. Are you interested in selling? I mean, even totally cold call leads. And if they say yes, okay, great. Fantastic. Uh, let me connect you with one of our representatives and he'll call you back. And then that lead comes back to Alex, and then Alex follows up on that lead. So a lot of times you don't even need to talk to the, you know, the negative people up front. You'd let somebody else do that.

Yep.

Um, I always say, you know, do everything in the beginning so that at least you learn, yeah, what people are saying and how they're saying it. Um, and, and then it just makes it, you know, easier for yourself at the end of the day, especially if you have to train somebody else. Um, you know, these are the issues that you're gonna run in— run into. And, uh, you know, let— if this happens, then do this. If this happens, then do that. And at the end of the day, when you get a yes, okay, we got a yes, we got a warm lead that says, yes, I'm interested in talking to somebody. So you start talking to 'em.

Yeah. And I think the biggest thing is, uh, your speed to lead. So if you're texting or if someone's filling out something on your web form, when you get that in, you want to, Get to them as quickly as possible.

Absolutely, yes.

You know, because they're saying in that moment, I'm thinking about selling, and then you can really dig into, you know, what's going on. And then before they start reaching out to all these other people as well. So, you know, that, that's, that's one thing I would say. If you are spending money on leads, you know, do a service to yourself and really be diligent about reaching back to these people, you know, Qualifying, disqualifying. It's going to be a ton of disqualifying. So the sooner you can do that— don't do what I do, don't sit on the phone with them. I don't think this is going to work.

Yeah.

And then, you know, put them on a, on a follow-up campaign, which is another big part of it as well.

Yes. Because having all your systems in place, uh, is very important. Yeah. Follow-up is extremely important. Extremely important. I mean, I was talking to an agent this morning and, uh, she's starting to do door knocking. She's doing on Notice of Defaults. And she called me for some advice this morning, and she says, I keep kicking myself because, um, you know, I get these leads and I get these people to say yes, and then I don't know exactly what—

Disqualifying. It's gonna be a ton of disqualifying.

So kicking myself because— and they go, oh, we just signed up for these leads, I get these people to say yes, and I go, you have to have— I don't know exactly what—

Disqualifying. It's gonna be a ton of disqualifying.

So Kicking myself because—

and they go, oh, we just— I get these leads, I get these people to say yes. So you have to have—

and then I don't know exactly what I'm disqualifying.

It's going to be a ton of disqualifying.

So kicking myself because—

and they go, oh, we just— I get these leads, I get these people to say yes. So you have to have— and then I don't know exactly what I'm disqualifying. It's going to be a ton of disqualifying. So kicking myself because— and they go, oh, we just— I get these leads, I get these people to say yes. So you have to have— and then I don't know exactly what I'm disqualifying. It's going to be a ton of disqualifying. So kicking Picking myself for guys who just want to get these lays and miss these picks will say yes, and they don't know exactly what they're picking. I hate disqualifying. It's gonna be a ton of disqualifying. Picking myself for guys who just want to get these lays and miss these picks will say yes, and they don't know exactly what they're picking. I hate disqualifying. It's gonna be a ton of disqualifying. Picking myself for guys who just want to get these lays and miss these picks will say yes, and they don't know exactly what they're picking. I hate disqualifying. It's gonna be a ton of disqualifying. Oh yeah, you've got to be able to be persistent.

Where's the thought process? Did you think about it?

You ready to go? Oh yeah, you've got to be able to be persistent.

Where's the thought process? Did you think about it?

The double tap, the double call. What is your—

what's your limit on the amount of times you have Oh yeah, in a row when you've got an idea before you get a hold of it.

Um, the double tap, the double small ones through the voice.

What's your limit on the amount of times you have to call? Oh yeah, in a row when you've got an idea before you get a hold of it.

Um, the double tap, the double small ones through the voice.

What's your limit on the amount of times you have to call? Oh yeah, in a row when you've got an idea before you get a hold of it.

Um, the double tap, the double small ones through the voice.

You gotta get creative out there. And what's funny is, that was one thing we discussed before.

Not necessarily.

No, not—

I mean, I don't wanna—

If you have the big heart.

I realize it is candy. That was one thing we discussed before. Not necessarily.

Please, Brandon.

No, not—

I mean, I don't wanna—

No, yeah. I realize it is candy. And I have a drip campaign now where if somebody reaches back out No, not—

I mean, I don't want to.

I realize that I have a drip campaign now where if somebody reaches out, it's just like, hey, I'm just trying to get a hold of you. Oh, I'm just popping out to lunch real quick. I realize that I have a drip campaign now where if somebody reaches out, it's just like, seems like you're busy right now, but, uh, it's just like, hey, I'm just trying to get a hold of you. What's Joe like? It's just a number. Oh yeah, yeah. What's Joe like? Oh yeah. Anyway, that's lead generation.

That's still—

bring it back around.

That's their leads.

You know, but, um, you know, drop in the comments what leads, what lists are you guys going after?

Oh geez. Anyway, that's lead generation, guys. That's sales. Bring it back around.

That's their leads.

I'm definitely used to seeing a different thing.

When I started, everything was hot and everyone was selling.

But, um, you know, drop in the comments what leads, what lists are you guys going after? Oh geez. Anyway, that's lead gen. I just said it. That's sales. Bring it back around.

That's their leads.

I'm definitely used to seeing a different thing.

When I started, Everything was hot, but you know, drop in the comments.

Sometimes I get stuck on the momentum of just whatever rating. What lists are you guys going after?

I want to be able to kind of stay flexible and see what's working.

Anyway, that's Legion. That's still bringing back around.

That's their Legion.

I'm definitely going to switch to my Starbase.

Everything was hot, but you know, drop in the comments.

Sometimes I get stuck on the momentum of just whatever rating. What lists are you guys going after? Procrastinators?

No, let's see what's—

Anyway, that's lead generation. That's sales and bringbacks and such.

That's their lead.

I don't know if the idea has changed.

My start isn't a great time. Yeah, I know.

But, you know, dropping the cost center, I feel like it's stuck on the phone.

No, we know.

What is this?

Are you guys going out?

California, maybe we went down 5 or 10%.

Anyway, that's lead generation. That's sales and bringbacks and such.

That's their lead.

Nowhere is the idea has changed. But actually, click here to find out why. Yeah, someone called me this morning. But actually, click here to find out why. Yeah, someone had some people popping in the live. I got to figure out how to see the chat. You guys, before we wrap up, make sure that you share this program with 3 persons with guests. But actually, click here, find out why. We had some people popping in the live. I got to figure out what's in the chat. You guys, I don't know. Yeah, I got to figure out because we're streaming on a few different platforms. I can't figure out how to get the chat.

If you want some more advice on real estate investing, reach out to us one-on-one.