How To Use Padsplit To Explode Your Cashflow!! With Devon Aguirre

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the New and Experienced Investor Podcast. Today we're talking about exploding your cash flow utilizing the rent-by-the-room model. It's definitely a show you don't, you don't want to miss. It's definitely a hyped-up exit strategy right about now. What would you say?

I agree.

It's all the hype. It's all the rage. It's what all the kids are doing— cash flowing now. You didn't think it was possible. Um, I'm one of your hosts. I'm Alex Barnett. I'm the new guy.

And I'm Joe Homs, and that makes me the experienced guy.

It sure does. We have an amazing guest with us. He helps real estate investors turn their long-term rentals into cash-flowing machines. So you better listen up. You better share this far and wide. Before we bring him on, I just want to remind everybody about our upcoming meetup.

It is this coming Monday, September 22nd. And our guest speaker is actually our guest speaker today.

Oh, I love it when that happens.

Yeah. So please join us at Hangar 24 in Irvine. And I think we have like 50 or 60 people signed up already. Nice. We're gonna get that pumped up. Yeah, make sure that you get out there and listen to what Devin has to say live and in person.

Absolutely. It's always a great time. It's always a good place to meet other partners, future partners. All different types of people are there. I want to remind you guys, this is live right now. So make sure to bring all of your questions. You have our attention here for the next hour. So you can get your questions in, anything you want to know about rent-by-the-room model, investing in California, all the things we're going to talk about today. And please share this far and wide with any new or experienced investor in your life. Now let's stop screwing around. Let's bring in our guest. Today we have Devin Aguirre. Devin, how you doing?

I'm good, man. Good. Yeah, I, uh, been, uh, cruising around, you know, PadSplit, co-living, everything has been super popular. So I know, uh, yeah, I actually just did a podcast earlier today, another podcast.

Oh, good. Don't tell me you're getting famous off this.

I know, I feel, uh, I feel a little bit famous. It's kind of fun, uh, for sure. Versus like when I used to be a title rep and, uh, being a title rep, you know, people are like, oh, can you go You know, you show up with the— you're the one guy in with the suit on in the middle of the networking event or whatever, and they're like, oh, I know that's either a lender or title rep, and I don't want to talk to them. Um, but it's nice. You wear the PadSplit hat out and people are like, hey, you know, I want to talk about it. It's finally in California. What's going on? You know?

Heck yeah.

Um, and so yeah, I'm bragging a little bit about it with my friends. Like, I'm on, I'm on all these podcasts, you know? I'm pretty cool now, you know?

Very cool. Well, I'm glad you can make the time to do ours today. We are the number one live podcast in Laguna Hills, so You can add that to your resume. Awesome.

Yeah, I'm super excited. Why don't you go ahead and— I'm thinking next week I have Joe Rogan.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there you go.

Work your way up from there. Why don't you jump into how you got into real estate, your journey so far, and what led you up to PadSplit?

Yeah, so I've always lived in Southern California my whole life, right? So grew up in Long Beach, went to Long Beach Poly High School, went to Cal State Long Beach for college. After college, actually, it was interesting. I wanted to go into the CIA. And like, I wanted to go in the Army, right? Originally, I studied Arabic in college and everything like that.

Oh, wow.

Studied Middle Eastern history. My current wife kind of blew up that plan.

Okay.

So she was like, you're not doing that. And I was like, and to be honest, it was, I graduated school in 2014. So it was like right during a lot of changes in the military and things like that. So didn't end up doing that. Got into real estate. I started off at a title company, worked there for, I worked at different title companies up until about COVID And then now I've been doing— I've always been in the prop tech space. Now I'm— and so I've worked at an agent referral platform before. I was a loan officer for a little bit. And now I'm at PadSplit.

Perfect. Yeah, and they definitely are where real estate and tech converge. Absolutely. Why don't you go into what PadSplit is, what it does, what they do, why they're getting popular right now, all those things?

So, you know, and, you know, huge shout out, everybody come out on Monday and I'll kind of dive a little deeper into what is going on in the market and stuff like that. And I have a slide deck, so I know everybody likes those.

Yeah.

Um, so no, so like right now it's, it's harder and harder for people to, you know, cash flow in today's environment, right? You know, there's a, you know, all the strategies are tough to make work, and co-living is one of those new strategies that is not really new. You know, people have been doing a rent-by-the-room model for years and years and years, going back to ancient times, right? Um, so what PadSplit does though is it kind of legitimizes it, I guess. Um, you know, we are an online platform at the end of the day. We are just a marketplace. So, you know, a lot of people ask me like, do you do anything physical with the property? Do you, you know, take care of the maintenance and things like that? That's not really what we do. But what we are is we're the marketplace that connects an investor who's looking for higher cash flow with you know, by doing a rent-by-the-room model with the renters who, you know, want to rent out just a room in a property. And so co-living, that's the fancy word for rent-by-the-room, right? Um, we have a lot of people, uh, it's not like we have like a bank of people that we're going to send into these houses, but we're really good at advertising. So when it's a host— so we call our owners hosts and our tenants members, and, um, When a host wants to list a property on our platform, we advertise it not only on our website, but 60+ other partner websites like Zillow, a bunch of the Zillow brands. We also advertise it by— we advertise our platform through social media and Google SEO.

Mm-hmm.

And then we also screen the members. We handle payment collection. We do a couple other things like we have a support team for the members and for the hosts. So we do a lot of the people management, but not necessarily the physical property management. So while we don't, you know, come in and do renovations or anything like that, like we do encourage a lot of our hosts to like add extra rooms to their property if they can. And we have a vendor network of contractors and property managers that can help with all those other services. We just kind of legitimize a co-living operation because a lot of people Can do this on their own. Like I tell people, like you don't need PadSplit to do your first co-living property. We're going to make it a lot easier, but at the end of the day, you know, you go on Zillow, you look for rooms for rent, you'll find a million properties doing this in Southern California today. But with our model, it just kind of takes a lot of the risk out for the tenant member side to where they're a little bit more willing to take a chance on doing something like this rather than having a stranger Craigslist encounter. Right? Signing a 12-month lease with a bunch of strangers. So I'm trying to sorry.

What what is your relationship with PadSplit? Are you like an investor? You did they hire you to do all this stuff? Yeah.

So I am an employee. I'm a full-time PadSplit employee. So what I do is I'm in charge of the Southern California marketplace for PadSplit, and so not only do I help onboard investors and hosts that want to do this and walk them through like the process, how to set it up, all that stuff. I even do a lot of property. Walks, you know, where I can help them maybe identify some extra rooms that they can add. But on top of that, what I do is really, I'm like a PadSplit evangelist out here and co-living evangelist, right? I do think it's one solution that will help ease the housing crisis. You know, there's so many people who just can't afford to live anywhere. And so providing these units, these rooms through a rent-by-the-room model, it helps people be able to afford and live in Southern California, especially having grown up here. I know how expensive it is. But yeah, so at the end of the day, I wear 2 hats— marketing, co-living evangelist, and then also onboarding. So my role specifically is I help an investor go from 0 to 12 rooms on our platform. Once you get to 12 rooms, I pass you over to one of our— they call them host success managers. And what they do is they help our larger portfolio hosts get from 12 doors to 100 doors. That's kind of like their goal.

Okay. And I've attended some meetups where you were speaking and stuff, and I've heard I've heard some other things about PadSplit. This is kind of new to me, even though you said the concept is not new. And I don't think anything's new anymore in real estate. They just bring it back up again. But what was interesting that I heard is, and you said it earlier, you have hosts, which are the owners of the property, and you have members.

Mm-hmm.

And describe what a member is, because if I heard you correctly, Legally, they're not tenants. So you don't necessarily have to go through an eviction process. Is this correct?

That's actually not correct.

Okay.

So some people think that that's the case, right? They're like, oh, by doing this, I can kind of avoid a lot of the tenant rules. So if a person stays in a property for, what is it, 31 days?

Yeah.

They become tenant. And we actually require that they stay in the property for 31 days. So, but that's because our model, like, When a member comes onto our platform to book a room, they commit to 31 days in the property and 12 weeks on the platform. And they do that in order to avoid a lot of the short-term rental regulations, right? Because if it's under 31 days now, it's a short-term rental.

Got it.

So especially in the city of LA, it's very difficult to get a short-term rental license/permit. You have to pay taxes on that, all that type of stuff. So that's where— and to be honest, short-term rentals have kind of gotten a bad stigma from— city governments and things like that. But we do that commitment with them so that way they do avoid that. But at the end of the day, like especially in California, they do become tenants. And there's a lot of other things that kind of are easier with a co-living model than just traditional tenants. But at the end of the day, they do have that. So if like there is an eviction, you know, we try everything we can to not get to that point. And we have a lot of processes in place to try to prevent that. And what we find actually is that most of our members, if they know that they're, you know, they're not good, they lost their job or or something they're not gonna be able to pay, they'll just leave. Because for them, they don't, well, we actually don't allow them on our platform again if they go through an eviction and a bad split. So they just, you know, they don't wanna be banned for life from this network. We have 25,000 rooms nationwide right now as of yesterday. So like, and we're growing at rapid clip consistently month over month. So like in Atlanta, for instance, we have 8,000 rooms on the platform. If you're gonna look to rent a room in Atlanta, It's like 90% chance it's going to be bad split. You know what I mean? So they don't want to be locked out of that network. But then on top of that, the rooms are furnished and utilities are included, and we don't really encourage them to bring in their own furniture at all. So a lot of times they're just bringing luggage with some clothes in it and a couple personal items. So they'll just pick up and leave. That's what we find that most time happens. We actually have a— our eviction rate on the platform is 1.2%. So it's pretty low.

Yeah. And so what kind of vetting do you do, or does the host have to do that?

Yeah. So at the end of the day, we have our screening procedures where we do a background check, income verification, credit check, but we always allow our hosts to do more. So we have 2 ways that you can set up a listing on our portal is you can do the standard default, which is if they pass our screening background check and everything like that, they can automatically book a room in the property. But then you can also set up booking approvals where if somebody, And in that case, somebody requests to book the room and you have 24 hours to decline it. Otherwise, it's automatically approved. However, during that 24 hours, you can ask any additional questions. You can hop on a phone call with them. You can request income documentation, whatever you want to make you feel comfortable. And there's no penalty for declining. So I always tell people, like, the fastest way to fill up the rooms, if that's what you're looking for, is to do no booking approvals. But if you want to have more surety in it, and so like most of our hosts in California are using approvals just because, you know, like in another state where it's super easy to get rid of somebody, they might just let— do the automatic booking, but not, not in California.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm— I have a property right now that I'm trying to get filled up, and it's like one of the most annoying things in the, in the world, just having to field all these people, and most of them are not even qualified. So that's—

But that's just a regular listing. That's not a—

No, it's just a regular listing, but I'm saying this is one person I'm trying to get into this place, you know what I mean? So having to go through 8 or whatever, whatever it is, you know, it's like just that alone takes off so much headache.

Yeah. And the way our process works is the members book the property sight unseen. So there's no showings, there's no appointments. You don't have to worry about people flaking out on you, right? Like you just send them the code, they move in and that's it. So that's why, like I tell hosts, like when you list your property, like try to be as transparent about obvious issues as you can. 'Cause it's just gonna be more headache for you if you have people complaining, wanting a transfer on the first day. They move in and like you used AI to set up your photos and it looks nothing like that in real life.

Yeah, I know. Do you get more complaints from the, what do you call 'em again? Members. Members moving in or the residents around the house?

So we don't have a huge amount of inventory yet. in Southern California, so we haven't really had neighbor complaints. And to be honest, where we see neighbor complaints is larger bedroom count properties, you know, historically on the platform. If you, like I said, we started in Atlanta, some of those properties are like 9, 10 bedrooms, right?

Wow.

In a normal single-family house. And so the neighbors notice, right? Like, it's gonna happen. Out here so far, a lot of our early inventory has been hosts that don't necessarily wanna like, fully build out the house to be a pad split. That's starting to come up, come more on board, that people are like, okay, this is working now. I see it. It's, it's happening. Like, I'm okay to commit. Because I get it. It's a larger commitment to like say like, I'm gonna turn the living room into 2 rooms or something like that. But where like, I think the most we have in a pad split in California right now is like, or at least in Southern California, I think is like 7. Or six, something like that. So with that, not many complaints yet. I mean, it'll happen eventually. But as far as like the the members complaining about first moving in, we do see that every once in a while. But like I said, more so in out of state because a lot of times the people that are working with me right now in Southern California are people that whatever strategy they were doing otherwise, whether it be like Airbnb, regular long-term rental, isn't working. So like they had already rehabbed the property enough that it's nice enough, it's working. They're— maybe they were doing a fix and flip and it didn't sell. And so they're like, okay, let's try something else. Where we see initial move-outs and like quick transfers is usually like in, in places where the market's more established and people are just putting anything on to try it. And especially like in Atlanta, some of our early properties, um, it was a lot easier to just post something there, you know, back when the market first started. And now it's a little bit more competitive there. So those properties that maybe aren't the most well-maintained, things like that, that's where you see those problems.

I think that's kind of good for the members because now everyone's got to step it up.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. And that's kind of something that we've noticed is we're trying to cultivate a better inventory for sure. Because when we first started, it's like 100 rooms in Atlanta. You'll take anything, right? You're like, oh, we got to solve this demand problem with more supply, whatever supply that may be. Now that we have 8,000 rooms, you're like, well, we can be a little picky. And we don't want to be picky, but we let the members be picky and it's market-based. So yeah, exactly like you said, there's just a little bit more competition. You can't be as brutal as maybe you wanted to be.

Yeah. And what's great, if you guys are interested in this, you go on Facebook, there's a bunch of Facebook groups where people who have been on PadSplit for a while, maybe since the beginning, have their own group, have their own community that they share what works, what doesn't. They have full lists of like Amazon purchases that you can get, beds, this worked, this didn't work. So there's a ton of information out there. And even though it's new, it's like you can get caught up to speed really quick.

Oh yeah. And like I have that information as well too. So, you know, if you guys wanna call me, you know, reach out, I can definitely send that stuff over. And we have all these resources. To be able to help people get started as a first co-living property. I had an interesting story. I'm working with a host right now in Riverside, and I think his first property that he did with co-living was 6 rooms. And he, he calls me and he goes, hey, I have one of the rooms vacant. And I go, okay, well, why are you calling me? Like, it seems like it's— you're doing well. And he goes, well, because I want to do this again, and I never want to do it again by myself. He was like, it was a pain in the butt to have to set up To manage individual leases with people, all this stuff, advertise. You have a turnover, you have to advertise for one room. It's, it's tough to spool that back up, or versus we're just constantly doing it. Um, and then on top of that, to have to like screen people, kind of like what you're mentioning. You have people come check it out, they flake, they do all this stuff. So with all— he's like, I want to get rid of all the headache. Now he's buying a— I think he just closed a couple weeks ago on a property in, in Riverside, 9 bedrooms he's going to turn it into. So that one's going to do really well.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and then that's what it is. You start underwriting with the pad split fee in there. And what I've noticed from what I, what I was underwriting is usually like 5 bedrooms, you'll kind of break even. So you got to think of it like 6, 7, 8, you know, that's your, that's your cash flow, you know.

So our sweet spot is like 5 to 7.

Okay.

That's kind of the rough number because Like I have people that bring me, especially because it's the newer market, people are just trying it out with like bad performing properties. They're like, hey, can we do this 3-bedroom, 2-bath? And I'm like, I'm not going to say it won't work, right? Like if you're not filling it any other way, then we'll probably fill it for you. You probably break even against the long-term rental rate, but like you're making nothing right now. So, you know, this will be something. But like when it comes to 4, like, like 3, it's really tight. 4, you're okay. 5, you're doing good. Anything above that, you're doing great. Um, like, I ran some numbers for a presentation I did a couple weeks ago on a property that was on the MLS in LA. It was currently 7 bedrooms, comped out at like $5,000 a month and what it would rent for. And the revenue, once we added 2 rooms, would have been about just shy of $11,000 a month, um, because it would have been 9 bedrooms. And that's not possible with every property, but like, it shows you the The capacity for it, the potential. So, and the reason we say like 5 to 7 is because once you get to 8 plus, it's not that those don't work, it's just that they just require a little bit more logistical stuff, right? Like we have a maximum bedroom to bathroom ratio of 4 to 1. So if your property only has like 2 bathrooms and you're trying to, and say it's a 3/2 and you're trying to make it up, you're trying to push it up to like 9, you're gonna exceed that ratio.

Yeah.

So now you're adding a bathroom, which is a significantly higher expense than just putting up some walls. And then on top of that, you need like 2 fridges. Once you get to 8+, you need more, maybe 2 microwaves, 'cause now you're having 9, 10 people living together. Like you need that extra infrastructure. And then back to the neighbor problem.

Yeah.

Like that's where we start to see problems is when you get to those larger properties. Where we see these massive properties being built is like Houston where you get like 16, 20 ground-up pad splits being built. Um, and really there's— I mean, it's different out there though because there's like no zoning out there. There's no zoning. And then there's, there's more space on the lots and things like that out here. If you tried to do that in a single family where you're like 3 feet from the other person's, you know, fence and like everybody's in each other's business, like they're gonna know you have 16 people in that house, you know what I mean?

So you're seeing a lot of people do new build specifically for pad split? In Houston?

Yeah, Houston. So I help people invest out of state. I don't have anybody doing that right now in Houston, but I see a lot of our hosts working on that. I've also seen quite a few projects that are probably going to come on the platform in LA that are like single resident occupancy buildings where there's like 16 bedrooms, en suite baths that maybe they had an idea of like when they first built them, like, hey, let's put this on as a— or let's do a Transitional housing or sober living or something, and that master lease may not have materialized once the property's finished. Those are ground-up PadSplits without having known that PadSplit was going to be here. So those will do really well, stuff like that. You know, co-living's just blown up everywhere, whether it's through us or somebody else, for sure.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it makes sense. It's, it's especially with the interest rates, you know, the payments people get, you got to get creative.

Oh yeah. But don't worry, the rates came down a quarter point, right?

Oh yeah.

Thank God. Yeah. Without naming them, I'm curious, do you have competition?

Not in the same space, I would say. So really, like, competition would be— we have, like, people say Furnished Finder is a competitor because you furnish a room, but they don't do what we do. They're just like a listing platform. They don't do the screening and stuff like that. I actually think we work with Furnished Finder to post some of our listings on Furnished Finder. Um, but there's competition in like the luxury space, I would say. Like, I think Blueground or something like that is a company that does that where they like, they cater to like digital nomads.

Mm-hmm.

And they, um, they— I think it's like a subscription that you pay for and you can stay like a month at anywhere around the world. But that's not really what we kind of go towards. More ours is more affordable, kind of working class.

Right.

Vibes.

Yeah. I mean, and that, that's just gonna get bigger over the years, I feel like. And what's great is if you go on the PadSplit website, it has so much data on there, even though, you know, I'm sure as each person comes online, it's more and more data. But if I'm looking at, let's say I want to get a place in Atlanta or a place out here, it— you can go to the zip code and it'll kind of show you with the units that are on there, you know, the average rate for Without a bedroom or without a bathroom and with the bathroom. So then you can do your complete underwriting and have a pretty good feel for what you're going to get.

Oh yeah. And even in LA, we're starting to build that data out, right? Like some of our early hosts, it was kind of a shot in the dark, right? It's like, what do I price this at? And it's like, well, our general rule of thumb is like 70 to 80% of what a 1-bedroom apartment in the area goes for that's comparable. But sometimes you get more than that. Like it just really depends. Like I do always every once in a while get the host that's like, I'm gonna make six thousand dollars a month on this room, and I'm like, that ain't happening.

Better be on the beach.

Like co-living's cool, and it seems like magic, but it's not magic. You know what I mean? Like it's not like people are just gonna pay that outrageous amount just because you say they will. But the you know we're building that data out in LA, and it's really interesting. So we have like occupancy numbers, times to time to book. Like, I was fascinated with the amount of data we had when I came aboard. I was like, this is awesome.

Yeah, no, it really helps you make a decision when you're gonna, when you're gonna do that. Um, that's really cool. I mean, where do you see it going with, uh, like California and the local governments? I mean, do you guys get involved with any of that stuff, or, yeah, um, do you have like an idea, just like these cities are pushing back, these ones aren't, or Yeah, I mean, I think California's gonna be pretty open to it, 'cause really, at the end of the day, like, how do you shut down affordable housing?

Like, and it's private, so it doesn't—

True.

It's a private solution to a public problem. That's kind of like one of my taglines. And it, like, at the end of the day, like, you close down these units, you're gonna make people homeless, like, or potentially have to go find something else. So because of the politics here, I think that That would be a real bad look to do that. In some of our states that are more right-leaning, I guess I'd say, we have had some pushback. We've actually never had a PadSplit get shut down, though, for unrelated occupancy, for instance, just because of the lease structure that we have. But even in Atlanta, where we started, we had a lot of pushback from the cities, from zoning and all that stuff. And we're still operating. We actually have a lot of— Dialogue with the city now. We do; we have litigated some cases and stuff like that to where we make sure that it works out for our hosts. But as far as California, I've actually already had some conversations with some city officials. You know, they've reached out to me. They're like, "Hey, I like this." You know, this is awesome because they don't have to spend any money, right? The city of LA, though, might not like it because I think they they you know. They have a stake in the pie, I think.

Right. Oh yeah, exactly. Well, I mean, I just saw the thing, the SB 79. Did you see that passed where they can build within residential areas? They can build multifamily near transits and it's all this stuff. And people were like, yeah, this is going to solve the housing crisis. But then the mayor was like, no, we don't like this.

You know what I mean?

So Even though they pass this, then they're gonna, you know, get pushed back here. So then nothing ever gets done, maybe.

But well, 'cause like, you know, I'm sure you guys have seen the videos, right? Like that people are like, oh, there's all this corruption around affordable housing, government-built units and stuff like that. So I won't comment on that. But, um, I think a lot of cities are gonna like this because it's gonna dramatically reduce like the amount of people that are working people that are just like living in their car and stuff like that, you know, or maybe just help alleviate some of the rental rates. on like 1-bedrooms and studios, 'cause now there's like another competition arm there. And then on top of that, like there's houses, like I've noticed rental rates are softening in like LA County specifically. All of a sudden I'm like, I do a search every once in a while just to see, just do a vibe check on the market. I'm like, how many houses, 4 or 5-bedroom houses are sitting on Zillow for 90+, 120+ days for rent? And it used to be such a small amount and now it's like— $100, $150, $200. I'm like, whoa. So, and I, I talked to a lot of investors and they're like, yeah, we're having to do concessions, we're having to do 1 month free, you know, things like that. And both in the single-family but also in the multifamily space.

Hmm.

So we'll see what happens.

Yeah. Why is that, you think?

I think— I mean, I'm not an economist or anything. I think—

Come on.

I mean, you have an opinion.

You were in the CIA, dude.

I, I think, uh, I think what it is is lack of confidence. I think on all ends, right? Like, that's why the housing market's kind of weird right now, is I think people don't want to commit because that's what all this whole game runs on— confidence, right? I think things will get better or they'll stay the same. At least if they think, I don't know where I might be in 6 months, whether it's with my job, whether it's with my money, then they start to hold back, right? And then unfortunately, that's a spiral downwards of everyone holding back, holding back, and then it caught— it's a What is it makes it come true? But I think like what you're saying is like five bedroom rental families or somebody that would rent that is now like we can make four bedrooms work, or a four bedroom might make a three bedroom work. Things like that. That's I mean, like I said, that's my little pulse check that I kind of think, and that's kind of what I've been hearing out there. Or that there's that I actually was talking to another real estate investor agent in LA earlier, and he was saying. That what he thinks it is, is that everybody's kind of like, from the landlord space, people are nervous about people leaving and vacancy. So what they're doing is they're making like the bare minimum increases in their rent to keep the existing tenants so those people aren't moving and creating that turnover that like helps keep the market going. So that's a— that was another take. I don't know.

Yeah.

Do you, do you allow families?

We do not. So, but that's where like a 5-bedroom house that's sitting on the market for 120 days, that's like an ideal pad split, right? Because what we do is we help people in that case. We say, now you can rent it out room by room. So like the classic example I say is like you're trying to get $4,000 a month for your 4-bedroom house, right? And maybe it's just not— it's not renting, it's not filling, or you can't find anybody qualified, and you've been vacant for 6 months. That's cost you $24,000. Maybe not in hard cash because maybe you're Mortgage is $2,000, but opportunity cost, right? So you're like, well, how— what can I do? I can lower it to $3,000, but then now I'm locked in for 12 months at $3,000. What if the market recovers in 3 months? I don't, I don't wanna be the first one to lower the rate either. So what we do is, you know, we'll rent it out room by room. And now maybe you're making $1,200 a room times 4. Now you're making $4,800 a month. Or if you had a 5th bedroom, now you're making $6,000.

Right?

You had a 7-bedroom or a 6-bedroom, you're making $7,200 a month. And so that's where the numbers really scale fast. Um, but it just depends on the property. So we do not allow families. It's singles only in the rooms. Um, so, well, we, we leave it up to hosts if they want to allow for double occupancy.

Mm-hmm.

So you can have like your wife, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, whatever. But it, like, what we definitely don't recommend is allowing kids. Um, just because at the end of the day, these are still strangers, you know. Like, if you're, if you're a single mom, single dad living with kids in the room, yeah, and you go to work, like, where's that kid going? Like, are they staying there all day while everybody else is—

Do you suggest charging more if there's 2 people in the room?

Yeah, usually you can charge more, just especially because the utilities are going to go up, right? Yeah. So like, if, uh, you know, say you're renting for $200 a week for a single occupancy, maybe you say $250 a week. Like, for 2. Like, we do have some hosts that try to go too crazy on the increase. They'll say like $400, and it's like, well, no, they— I can just rent the room next door then, right? You know what I mean? Like, I get 2 rooms out of the same place.

Well, maybe that's good if you're married, you know?

Yeah, that's true. Like, hey babe, you gotta rent your own room. I mean, we're gonna be right here next door.

Yeah, but you're next door.

Yeah, yeah, so you get your own space.

And then we have a storage room too in this rental, you know? But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, we also don't set prices. So we just provide the data and the recommendations, and the hosts set their own prices.

Mm-hmm.

So if they don't want to do an upcharge for double occupancy, they don't have to, right? And it— I think it really depends on where the property's located. Like, if you're on the outskirts of, like, you know, San Bernardino or something, and you're having a hard time filling the property, maybe you're like, I'll allow double occupancy just to fill it up, right?

Or—

but if you're, like, in Koreatown or Anaheim, you're like, no, singles only, because I don't want to deal with the headache.

Yeah.

Are there some cities that are jumping out as somebody wants to go after this podcast and look for a place? Where should they be looking right now? Is anything jumping out to you?

City-wise, I mean, I think personally there's a lot of opportunity in the IE because I think the acquisition cost is less. So it depends on what you want to manage, right? Some people want to manage something locally. So say if you live in Orange County, you're like, I don't really want to go to the IE to manage a property, so I'll stick to something in Orange County. Um, but the acquisition cost is less and there's more square footage out there. There's a lot of square footage in Orange County and, uh, in the IE that, that makes sense for this. Because really, like, if you look at like a lot of the houses in LA, like 800-square-foot houses, 1,100-square-foot houses, there's like no meat on the bones anymore. So like If there was extra space, it's probably already been converted. So you're not able to extract that extra value because you go out and buy a 4-bedroom house off the MLS, like unless you can add 2, 3 rooms, it's probably not gonna— the numbers probably won't work. Now, if you got something on a wholesale or you got like a deal flow from somewhere else that helps make the numbers better, you know, on the acquisition side, anything could work.

Mm-hmm.

But what we recommend like on a buy box is like shoot for like 2,000 square feet plus on the, on the house. So, Where do you find more of those? Not in the city of LA generally, but there's— we have a lot of our pads that are in the city of LA.

Yeah, yeah, I've seen some random ones like in Inglewood and stuff where it'll just be like a 3-story.

Do you—

what do you think about— yeah, like the double-story, 3-story, do you like single-story? What works best?

I mean, it doesn't really matter. Like, as long as— one of the things that I tell people is like, just put yourself in the shoes of member? Like, would you pay this amount of money for that? And if the answer is like, hell no, then, you know, probably not. But if your answer is no, then you're just a homeowner and you just need to adjust your expectations for what rent costs. But you know what I mean? Like, uh, if you're, if you're trying to get a lot of money and you're in a neighborhood that's a little nicer, you know, maybe you need to add a little bit of amenities, right? You put a little mini fridge in the room, right?

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't cost much, but it's just a little touch that helps sell it. At the end of the day, you're selling it. It's a marketplace. Like, we're not going to guarantee you're getting somebody in there. And there's weird nuances to it too. You might have 2 properties right next door to each other that, you know, one fills and one doesn't. But it's not always price either. Maybe it's just the, you know, there's, there's weird wins to it. And so that's what I do is I help people look at them and I say, oh, like, hey, this isn't going to work, or this room's super tiny, you need to lower the rate on that one. Um, but At the end of the day, it is a marketplace. And so as long as people understand that, everything goes well.

Maybe it's the host. How, how involved do you want the host to be?

Um, so I'd say being involved more so is helpful, like either through a property manager or the actual owner, by being available, you know, like responding to maintenance stuff, things like that. Because like our app The members can submit a maintenance ticket directly through the app. And so if like you spend 3 days not getting back to a clogged toilet, like that type of stuff, you're gonna have higher turnover. On the other hand, so with the way that the PadSplit agreement works is you can go in the common areas. Like we recommend giving notice still, but like you have access to the common areas at all times. So it's not like, I mean, you still have to follow the normal rules for the bedrooms. But because it's a shared space, they don't have like an exclusive right to that. And so one of the first questions most new hosts will ask me is like, oh, so I could go there like every day? And I'm like, you could, but if you do that—

Would you?

You're gonna have such a high turnover. So just keep that in mind.

Yeah, I remember at one of your meetups, there was a gentleman that said he's already doing PassSplit. And he says he goes over every Friday or Saturday and brings a pizza with him.

Oh yeah.

You know, it's like, Joe, I don't know that I would want to be that involved in that.

And that's the fun part about PadSplit is every house develops a culture. So some cultures, you know, some houses will have a culture that that kind of is needed or wanted. Other houses, everyone's like, leave me alone. I just want to pay my rent. I don't want to see my landlord. Right? Yeah. So it— and really, like, we have— each host develops that culture within their own house, and it's really usually the personality of the host that sets that up. Like our property that we just launched in Huntington Beach, one of the investor in the property, she's super nice, very friendly, very open. And she said, she's like, I want to build a community out of this place. So that's her goal. She's like, I want to do this. And then like I talked to somebody in LA that's like, I was like, hey, like, I don't know if this property will really work. And she's like, I don't care if I lose money. I want to help these people. I'm like, I love that for you. How can I find more people like that? You know what I mean?

Right, right, yeah.

But most investors are like, how can I make more money?

Let's lose money every month.

Yeah.

Why not?

I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I would probably do that maybe if you're going to raise the rent or something. So you go over there, you throw a barbecue, beers around, and then at the end of the night, you're like, hey, I'm going to be raising the rent like $50. That's cool, right?

Yeah. Do the hosts notify them or do they call you and then you Tell them?

About rent raises?

Yeah, renting.

So they just update it within the app. So it's all technology-based there. So it kind of removes a lot of the awkwardness.

I don't have to talk to this guy if I don't want to.

I mean, he could leave.

I just—

Maybe the pizza isn't a good enough anchor.

Like, yeah, okay.

So—

I'm raising your rent.

Yeah, so at the end of the day, like, there's so much nuance to it. Kind of like at some of our meetups, I've heard like they have the house mom, house dad that kind of like informs on all the bad stuff that goes down and stuff like that. And so the host will like give them a gift card to help take care of them or a discount on their rent. Or I've heard so many stories of like, oh, this member was kind of gonna start struggling with the payments. So they said, hey, I see you have a lawnmower. Can I cut the lawn every week? And then you cut me a break on the rent. And they're like, sure, I'll take $20 off a week and then you do the lawn. Now I don't have to pay the $100 a month for the lawn guy. Stuff like that that's really customizable.

It's kind of like AI. He just fired the lawn guy.

He just got outsourced.

Yeah, he just got outsourced.

One of my favorite sayings when it comes to AI is I like to see stuff like a robot doing something new and I just like to say like, oh, there goes your job.

Right?

I always remember the Boston Dynamics robot grabbing the cardboard box and taking it off the shelf. And my coworker at the time in the cubicle next to me, used to do warehouse jobs like that. And I go, hey, Darryl, there goes your job.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, it's bad out there.

I think they already have a barista too at LAX now, like a robot barista. So there goes that job.

The Waymos are everywhere right now.

Yeah.

I was fighting them in Culver City yesterday. Yeah. I was driving around. I was like dodging all these Waymos.

Oh my gosh. Well, let's go over some, I guess, some dos and don'ts that you give, you know, it was like maybe a new host or something, just the basic dos and don'ts.

Yeah, so it's very much so like selling your house is what I would say. So like when you're listing your property, take good pictures because, you know, it's one time. You just take— if you want to hire a professional, do that. You take nice pictures. What does it cost? A couple hundred bucks, right? But you have those now going forward. So many times hosts will take pictures with their like flip phone from the '90s or whatever, you know, and it's like a blurry potato. You know, and they're like, why isn't it booking? And I'm like, you're not selling it. Like, the way the members look at these houses is they're just looking on their app and they're seeing 4 at a time. And based on the pictures, what they're going to click— it's like Tinder for housing, right?

Mm-hmm.

They're going to go, oh, I like the picture of that one, click, and then they get the description. So the description is also important. But like, there's the title and the photo that's, that's important. And so our software will automatically generate a title and a listing description for you. But definitely you gotta fluff it up a little bit 'cause it's just generic. It's like, hey, 1-bedroom, utilities included. And that's the other thing. So because we share the listing out on Zillow, HotPads, all those other things, Roomies, Zumper, I always tell hosts, like, in the title of the listing, put utilities included and furnished because the description doesn't transfer over to that stuff. It's like in a tab. Like, you have to, like, click the little caret and drop it down.

Yeah.

So it just says like, oh, 1-bedroom, undisclosed address. And people are like, what is this scam? So you have to do something to grab their attention. So I advise all the hosts to do that, whether they listen to me or not.

I've seen some really good descriptions on there. And people are giving bed sets when you first move in and then packages when you first move in. I was like, wow, this is getting really nice.

So there's multiple levers you can use to to reduce vacancy, right? You can have, it's like location, price, and the look of it, right?

Mm-hmm.

So either you can be, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, it's just gonna be harder. So you're probably gonna have to work on the price and really sell the photo, right? But if you're right in the core of like downtown and you're like, hey, I'm next to everything, next to a bus stop, next to a freeway, that's a lever that helps not have to use the pricing as much, right? 'Cause I think a lot of people are scared to reduce price right away. And I don't really even encourage that. I'm like, let's see what else we can do. But 60 days later, if you still haven't filled these rooms, you probably need to drop the price a little bit, especially if it's in a new market.

Absolutely. Okay. So we got good pictures, we got the listing. Anything else?

I would say like when you're setting these up, you want to make sure that the furniture is like— so there's a couple of different like profiles of hosts that come to our— come to us, right? There's the accidental landlord. Right? The person who is like, didn't want to sell their house, or they're— they want to rent out their house, but they buying something else, but they never really set out to become a landlord. And they're like, okay, well, I just— I— the new house I bought is furnished, so this is perfect. Like, it's already furnished, ready to go. And they say, like, can we— can I just use this furniture? And I'm like, yes, but if you have your grandma's wardrobe that you're going to be so upset if it gets like a key scratch in it, like, get that out of there. Like, that does not belong in a rental property. Like, people forget that this is a rental property at the end of the day. So I just say like, you wanna have something that's not gonna break the first time somebody touches it. So don't go super cheap, but you don't want something that's like $10,000 that you don't wanna replace either. So that, and then one of the biggest recommendations that I always tell hosts is use smart locks or at the very least like punch code locks.

Mm-hmm.

So many hosts are like, I don't wanna spend the extra $10 per lock. 'Cause you do have to lock each room, right? This is like their apartment. It's just the room. So they need a way to lock it when they leave. So I tell people, you know, use it. You can either do the Wi-Fi lock or you can do just a regular punch code, but don't do a keyed lock. And then I've had hosts that are like, I'm just gonna do the keyed locks. It'll be fine. A week later, they're like, I'm changing all the locks. You were right. And I'm like, yes, because somebody loses their key, they're calling you at 2 in the morning, hey, I need to get in, blah, blah, blah. Or you have a turnover and it's like, hey, I gotta rekey or relock anyways.

Right, yeah.

Versus, you know, a lot of the air— the people that come from Airbnb, it makes sense because they just already have that stuff and they're familiar with it. But that's, that's a huge recommendation.

That's huge.

Yeah.

I mean, and you can do that on the front door as well, right?

So yeah, so that's, that's what, um, so like I said, once again, some people do a keyed front door, but I recommend doing that as like you have your front door digital lock, you have your room digital locks. And I mean, they're not even that expensive anymore. No, it's like $50, $60.

Yeah, they've already figured it out.

Yeah.

So, wow, that's, that's, that's really good, really good stuff to get started for sure. I want to get this going with mobile homes. Is that possible?

So we do allow it in mobile homes, just not in parks, right? So it would have to be like—

No, own land.

Then yeah.

Brand new mobile home. Um, I got a buddy, he told me they can do like duplex mobile homes.

Yeah.

So you could probably get like—

We're creative. We're just as creative as you want to be. So if you want to, you know, if you have unique properties, like that's actually where we do really well in new markets. Like we have a property in Moreno Valley that it was like a tract home, normal tract home, 5 bedrooms. I think it was like 2 or 3-car garage. The owner converted the garage into 3 bedrooms, like its own unit with a kitchen and everything, and then stole one of the rooms from the main house. So you had a 4 in the garage and a 4 in the main, and she was having such a hard time filling the main 4 because she wanted 4-bedroom rates in this tract. But everybody paying 4-bedroom rates wants the whole house, not to share a wall and not have a garage and share a driveway with the other guys. So she calls me and she goes— and she's in the Bay Area— so like showing it to all these people and then they, they complain because they're like, it's different, and they flake on her and everything. She's like, what do you think? And I'm like, you probably do better than what you were gonna do otherwise. And now she was working with a property manager. She stays pretty occupied. You know, she had one bad apple. So I mean, at the end of the day, you do get a bad egg every once in a while, but he left and things go smooth. And the property manager, she's one of our local vendors and she's actually like, this is so much easier than Airbnb. It's great. And, uh, 'cause that's where she came from was like the short-term rental space. But now she's doing better. So those unique properties, those are, those are the ones that are like low-hanging fruit for us because the people are like, we're here to solve a problem. And if you don't have a problem for us to solve, like, it doesn't really make sense for us to work together. But if you're like, I have a property that's been sitting vacant for 6 months, that's like, let's do it. But mobile homes, yes. Long story short. Heck yeah.

Yeah, I want to do it. Is anybody doing—

Mobile homes are popular right now. Like, everybody's talking about flipping mobile homes.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, I see your posts all the time.

That's right.

I, uh, I saw— I just talked to somebody else and I was like, you know Alex? Because they were talking about flipping mobile homes and they're like, no. And I was like, you guys should connect because he's doing it. Nice.

So what, out here?

Yeah.

Oh heck yeah.

In Orange County.

Okay, cool.

So I'm like, how many mobile homes are out there being flipped?

It's crazy. Yeah, there's a ton. And now I'm looking at putting new ones just on vacant land. That's a whole nother cash cow.

Yeah, where are you thinking?

Um, I'm just out in Hemet right now. Hemet's got a ton I mean, they're mobile home friendly. So that whole area like Murrieta, Winchester, it really comes down to the zoning, like where you can just plop a mobile home. So you gotta go where there's already other mobile homes on land.

Is there like sewer already there or do you have to like do that?

Some, yeah, some will have sewer, but a lot are popping up like out in Hesperia and like Phelan. where there's just like endless open land. And so you'll probably end up doing a septic, but that's pretty normal in the mobile home space too.

Okay. So one thing, like if you were to do a pad spot out there, is I always tell people like, have expectations for the area. Like, you know, if you are putting one on at the edge of civilization, you know what I mean? Like, just keep in mind it might take a little bit longer or you're gonna get a lot cheaper rents, right? If you're in downtown Riverside, you know, you can get downtown Riverside rates, right? Right.

Oh no, totally. One thing that is cool though is out on these like edges, they're, they're starting to get more developed and then they're building a ton of Amazon warehouses. So you're going to have those workers there, a bunch of distribution centers.

That's why I think the IE is going to blow up for PadSplit. Like San Bernardino, I looked at a property in Colton You know, that's like just close enough to everything.

Yeah.

And the prices are low. I was like, they can— that's a perfect spot. And there's— the lots are huge, right? So you have— the houses are big. You know, it's like that— those either those homes that were built a long time ago, like custom, that are just big, or, you know, they're like tract homes that are 4 or 5 bedrooms. Those are usually good spots for sure.

Absolutely.

And so that's kind of a little segue into my new book that I wrote on flipping mobile homes in California.

That's right.

Yeah, The Little-Known Secrets. And the inspiration for this book is you, Joe. Yeah.

How dare you?

I never, never, never even thought of flipping mobile homes until you brought a deal to me one day. And at the end of the day, we ended up making $100,000 on that mobile home flip.

Who knew?

And so, um, I have one, another one going on with you right now.

Yep.

Um, and I don't know if I told you, but I, um, imminesco with, uh, Leo.

Okay.

On another movie.

Oh, nice. Heck yeah.

Yeah. So anyways, but, uh, Alex was the inspiration for me writing this book because he kept saying, I'm going to write a book, but I haven't seen any. So I decided, well, I'm going to write one for you. And I dedicated the book to him.

Heck yeah.

If you're interested, it's on Amazon.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Awesome.

That's really cool. And then you can, uh, you know, uh, get a DSCR loan, throw up some more walls, and then that's what that—

there you go.

There you go.

That's what I said.

And there's tax advantages to doing that with a mobile home, right? Flipping those, because it's like different than real estate because it's personal property, right?

No, no, it's the same. Yeah, it's the same.

I thought there was like a—

There is. Yeah, there's a— there is like a play. Um, Chris Craig from Sub 2 has like been going into that where— I forget, I forget, it's a It's a whole thing that you got to do where you can buy just the mobile. But what we are actually looking for is mobile home and then attaching it to the land. So then it becomes real property.

Oh, okay.

At that point.

And I say that because somebody told me that.

Yeah.

That person might just not be declaring that income because there's those—

Well, there is that, but there is some sort of play with tiny homes and Is it just the mobile that you can do all this tax loophole for?

So it is considered a vehicle. Okay, so maybe that's what they're talking about. Because at the end of the day, when you sell a personal property, you get, you know, a 1099 for, you know, the sales price that you sold it for, and then you have to account for that in your taxes. I don't think we get anything for a mobile home that is not on owned land. So you're just literally selling a car. So for example, if, you know, if you sell a truck that you bought for whatever, I don't know that anybody ever reports that they made money on it.

Yeah, you have to go say it's a DMV.

Most of the time it's like you're losing money on it. So this is obviously a little bit different because you're going in, you're rehabbing it. So yeah, you're making money. Do you declare it? I'm just going to leave that up to the individual to decide what to do.

There's a thing I love to say when I talk to hosts. Like, they're like, well, what do you think about permits? And I'm like, I'm not the permit police. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I always say. I'm not the permit police.

Yeah.

How should I do this? Handle this eviction? I'm not the eviction police.

Yeah.

Follow—

do your due diligence, right? Especially because we're recorded. Do your due diligence.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, but, uh, you know, it— but I agree. I think that's what it is. But also the people I was talking to, I think We're doing it in parks, so maybe that's why. So it's like straight personal property like that. And like, I mean, I know people that flip cars. I'm sure they were never declaring that.

Well, I know some people that have made like a couple hundred thousand dollars on a flipped mobile in a park.

Did they declare?

I'm not the tax police.

There you go. See, now it's catching on. You're like Bill Clinton. Don't ask, don't tell.

Yeah, I don't want I know.

I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Okay, what do you call it?

Yeah, we have a ton more questions, but I think we should save some for the upcoming meetup on Monday, uh, where we're gonna have like 50 people probably, you know.

Yeah, I've been posting it too. Yeah, um, my— I, I co-posted on my meetup. I think we're gonna get a pretty solid turnout.

Excellent, thank you.

Yeah, very cool. And then, uh, what's great, when we went to your other meetup, you You guys kind of pointed out, um, well, you did as well, like some properties that this works because of this, like actual properties off the MLS. Are you gonna do something like that?

Yeah, so I kind of have like 2 presentations that I give that I keep in the can, right? Uh, there's my Pad Split and Pizza event, which you guys came to. Um, thanks for coming, by the way.

Uh, great pizza.

Thanks. It was, it was really good. So the next one is actually in Lakewood at Mian Ed's, which is like, I grew up around that Pizza. Oh, nice.

I'll go there.

If you guys want to swing by another one, I will be there. And that one has a bigger room because that round table got a little tight. Yeah. So, uh, this one's more— it's set up better. Also, it's hard to find pizza places that have banquet rooms nowadays, by the way. Um, so my October one is actually not at a pizza place, so I'm gonna get that delivered.

Okay.

But anyways, um, so there's the PadSplit and Pizza, and that's more panel-oriented, right? So I have like— I do like a quick little PadSplit presentation, and then I have a lender, realtor, and a Property manager Franco is going to be there on the next one.

Oh, in the Lakewood one?

Yeah. So he manages 1,100 doors for us.

Wow. Yeah, I've been meaning— I've been meaning to link up with him.

Yeah. So it's a funny story. I didn't know he was in LA, right? So everybody talks about Franco, Franco, Franco, Franco manages all these properties for Passport Hosts. And I'm like, oh cool. Like, I'm assuming he's in Atlanta because that's where most of his rooms are. And then Fernando, who was at the Passport Pizza, goes, oh yeah, he's in Glendale. I go, how have I not known this? I was like, Franco, you have to come to my next Pad Split and Pizza. So he'll be there.

Sweet.

He's going to do a little presentation as well. And then, so that's the Pad Split and Pizza, and that's the one I usually host. When I do presentations with other groups, like what we're doing on Monday, that one, I just, it's a little bit more about Pad Split, but more focused on the case study. So yeah, I'll do a case study local to the area. I usually like to keep it like super current so that way, if somebody wants to go out and buy that property, They can.

Nice.

Absolutely awesome. This is the part of the podcast where we've curated several videos that I want to get your honest reaction on.

Okay, cool.

You got a second?

Yeah. All right, I'm not going nowhere.

Perfect.

Okay, this first one is called Why I'm Quitting Airbnb.

Something changed recently, and it is the nail on the coffin for Airbnbs in California. SB 584 is presenting a tax like I've never seen before, like higher than the TOT tax. That's kind of wild. Anytime you go to book a hotel or a short-term rental, you're already taxed a transient occupancy tax, and it's usually around 10%. And this new tax is on top of the transient occupancy tax. Hotels and short-term rentals bring in a ton of money for the state. The tax money is to go towards building affordable housing units. Currently, the city only spends $3 million of their budget on an affordable housing reserve. Most of the money goes to general government and the police. It all sounds really great in theory, but will it actually work? And what am I going to do with my house? I'm quitting Airbnb.

So honest reaction up front. What's the address? Book a call with me. I want to call her like, let's do a PadSplit. So we do have a lot of hosts from Airbnb coming on over. Um, funny story. I hope the Airbnb guys aren't watching this, but, uh, I do the— I do a meetup in LA once a month, the LA RIA, uh, with Lloyd Siegel. And I had a little table there. And, uh, last month the Airbnb guys were there. They had a table and they rolled 7 deep. And I have a banner that says like, you know, recover lost money from Airbnb or something like that. And, and like, I was solo and I'm like, And they're just mad-dogging me from across the room. And I'm like— and I called it out because we do a little 1-minute elevator pitch. And I was like, hey, I just want to let everybody know, I'm not beefing with the Airbnb guys. We're cool. Because I tell people to do Airbnb if it makes sense for them.

Right, right, right.

When somebody brings me a backyard studio apartment, I'm like, you can do it on our platform. It'll probably just be better to Airbnb it or long-term rent it, right? Or a 2-bedroom condo. I'm like, just put this on Airbnb, dude. It's just not going to make sense for us. Like, we can do it, don't get me wrong, but I want to see the best outcome for you, like, at the end of the day. Like, I don't have any, what is it, fiduciary duty to you, but like, I've always come from a customer service background, so to do something like that and like burn people doesn't sit right with me. But anyways, interesting, because I have heard LA, the city of LA is super hardcore cracking down on Airbnbs. Anaheim, you can't have any Airbnbs, right? 'Cause the Disneyland—

It's been like that for a long time. Yeah.

I was talking to an investor that I met at one of my events, and we walked a couple of his properties. He's like, "I'm going to do Airbnb." I was like, "In Anaheim? Like the city of Anaheim?" Or is it? I'm like, "We are right on the border or something." And he's like, "No, we're in Anaheim." I'm like, "Okay." You know, he hopes he doesn't get caught. Yeah, and that's what it is.

No, he will get caught. Yeah, the neighbors will turn him in right away.

Well, and then Airbnb is having to cooperate with a lot of the cities now because they don't want to get banished completely from these cities. So they're like, "We'll work with it." Beverly Hills completely banned short-term rentals.

Right.

Yeah, that was in August.

No.

And that's where you guys come in and it's like, hey, you've already spent money on this house. Maybe you've already furnished it. All you got to do at this point is, I guess, throw up a couple more walls and then you got a PadSplit.

And the difference between an Airbnb and PadSplit, I always tell people, you're going to make more money on Airbnb if you stay full, if you do well occupancy-wise. But if you're booking 2 weekends out of the month, you're not doing good.

Yeah.

So PadSplit, it's like Airbnb gets hotel rates, so you make more money if you stay full. But PadSplit makes just rental rates, so it's more consistent. So it diversifies the vacancy, right? So if like you have a 5-bedroom house on Airbnb and you're booking 2, 3 weekends a month and like you're barely breaking even, with PadSplit, even just doing it at the 5 rooms, very rarely you're going to have all 5 rooms empty at one point. You're going to have 4 filled, 1 vacant. Now you have 5 streams of income, essentially. You're diversifying that vacancy risk. But yeah, I think Airbnb's kicking people off that don't have a permit. You have to upload your permit or whatever in the city of LA.

Yeah, I mean, and you hear from hosts, they've changed their platform a few different times and made it harder for hosts. And so I guess that's always the push and pull of running a site like that. And maybe PadSplit will have to make a decision like that later at one point to— you got your members and you got your hosts. Which one are you really going to cater to more? Are you going to make it harder for hosts 10 years down the line when you guys have all this revenue and valuation and stuff? I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I think long term, it will always be a fine line that we walk, right? And it's interesting because— I will say working for PadSplit is one of the few places in my entire career where it's really win-win. Like, the host makes extra money, the members have a cheaper place to live, and then we take a little fee in there too. But, you know, it's like everybody— it's a good solution for everybody. Everybody feels good about it. Um, you know, when I used to sell title insurance, it was like you always feel a little schemey and stuff like that. But, uh, you know, because it's commoditized and people would do background, you know, No one's ever done that. Yeah, never mind. Sorry. It's recorded. I forget. No, but so, like, this is one of the few jobs I've ever worked where I'm like, oh, this feels good. And so I will say, we're a mission-driven company. Like, we are trying to help solve the affordable housing crisis. Do I personally think this is the end-all be-all? No, right? Because what are families doing, right? And maybe eventually we develop something that caters towards more families. But I do think that— Sometimes, internally, we have Slack, right? And I see some people post things that they're like, what if we should do this? And I'm like, oh, you have no concept of the investor side. As being out in the market like this, I'm 100% trying to balance that aggressively.

Right.

Because I'm talking to hosts and investors every day. If all you're doing is working for corporate and you're like, hey, I'm just thinking of the mission, that's great. We need to have the mission. But also, we need to keep everybody happy. We can't do this without our hosts.

What, what, like, what's a suggestion that somebody has no idea about investing would, would say?

I almost don't want to say it because I feel like—

Just hypothetically.

I feel like if I say it, I know what's gonna happen.

Don't say it. Don't say it.

I feel like what's gonna happen is somebody's gonna share this internally and they're gonna be like, oh, Devin flamed me on that podcast.

Yeah, I got you.

I got you.

No, but like, just stuff like, should we, uh, should we make it to where like they can, they can put the rent on hold or something for the holidays.

Oh, OK. OK, OK, OK. I got you.

No host is going to want to do that.

Like, why?

OK.

Stuff like that.

Yeah, no, that's fair.

Like, super member side.

Yeah, yeah.

And you're like, I'm sure they would love that.

Right.

Hosts are never going to let that fly.

OK. Hosts have Christmas with their families too.

But one thing that's nice is our CEO, Atticus, he owns PadSplits.

Right.

Because that's how he started the company is he was doing this in Atlanta already. And he was like, wait a minute, there's a market for this. And so I think he'll always kind of have the hosts in the back of his mind because he is one. I think he owns like 100 houses or something in Atlanta.

Yeah.

Cool. Well, awesome. Can't wait to see what happens. So the next one we have is—

Can I just say too, I was super scared. I had no idea.

Oh, sorry.

People don't really use—

Hold on. What was it?

I was super scared of what you're about to show me because I was like, is this a weird reaction video? Yeah.

Is this a video of me?

Yeah, I was like, uh-oh.

It's like, no, no, we keep it.

You sing it in the car.

We keep it cool. Okay. One main thing I've learned investing in co-living. One main thing I've learned doing co-living over the last 7 years: people don't really use the appliances that much. When people are living together and they're strangers, they're not as in tune or want to be making friends with all of those random people.

And what I found is people buy food.

that they can put in the microwave and take to their room.

So for that reason, in every room we have a workstation where someone can work, they can eat, and basically have their own space in their own room.

One main thing I've learned—

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's, that's pretty true. Like, from what we've seen is, you know, like, our minimum furnishings— like, we don't require a desk, but desks are super helpful. So I always say, like, you know, if you have the budget, you have the room for it, I would do it. That's a nice amenity. Mini fridges. as well, right? Because then you have no fighting over the fridge food. Um, but yeah, and each house is different. Like, some houses are very like that where I've— so there's kind of been a little bit shift in the co-living vibes. Uh, we had like a co-living conference in Denver earlier this year where some houses are like, yes, keep a, a little common area for everybody to hang out in, right? And versus our past years of advice was like, get rid of all the common area you can because It's all about extra revenue, right? I will say, like, there's some houses out there where they all once a week make a dinner and one person does it and they all chip in and all that stuff. It just depends on the culture. But most people are treating this like their own little apartment. So yeah, if you can make it that way, I think it does help smooth things out.

I saw on a listing, I was looking at one in Atlanta and they had like on their, their main listing, it was like a picture of all the members were all like Yeah, this is our house. I was like, okay, that's kind of cool.

I think the only— I'm not gonna say downside. I think the challenge when it comes to developing that culture is it takes you. You have to do it. Oh, you know, what were you gonna say?

Mutiny? Oh no, they're like, we're gonna stop paying until they fix it.

No, no. So like, there's, there's co-living properties in LA and Southern California that are already doing that. Like, like there's Treehouse in LA. I haven't talked to those guys yet. I'm sure I will connect at some point. But like, they have— it's like an art collective in their house. And it's like, I think they have like a coffee shop in the bottom.

Joe, but when he says art collective, these are rich kids that are artists.

Oh yeah, like they're paying rent. I don't know if the property cash flows by any means, but yeah.

When you told me about everybody cooking together, the picture that came into my mind was a bunch of firemen cooking for each other.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's I will say it's nice to see that versus the times you hear like oh they stole my Ben and Jerry's ice cream you know what I mean? Yeah yeah and they asked my name on it. They're asking you to check the cameras right you know to see who stole the Ben and Jerry's you know but yeah most people I mean I in LA I I'm afraid sometimes to talk about this being an affordable housing solution because there's such a stigma on affordable housing but at the end of the day these people are working. people. Like, they have income. It's just maybe they don't make $200,000 a year, right? So it's hard to live here. But, you know, how do those people— how does somebody making $60,000 a year, like, survive solo all by themselves through this? And they're not, they're not cooking gourmet steaks every night, you know?

Not—

I'm not even doing that.

No.

You know what I mean? Um, and so they're, they're, they're cooking out of the microwave a little bit more, you know what I mean? Like, we're not the healthiest police either.

So they probably work at a restaurant and get food for free. That's true. Yeah, probably a lot of service people.

They're getting paid $20 an hour now.

There we go, we have Joe the Lifeguard.

Yeah, and they're getting, uh, no tax on tips.

There you go.

It's like, I think they have it made.

Well, and it used to be, you know, like $80 grand, $60 grand a year was like enough, but I feel like it shot up.

Yeah.

Now it's like $120,000 a year is baseline in Orange County.

Well, I mean, you guys, you're a real estate agent, right? What's the median income now to qualify to— or what's the income you need to qualify for a median home in Orange County? It's like $250,000, something like that. It's crazy. I mean, I couldn't buy the house I live in today. I bought it in 2021, and that wasn't even that long ago. It's not like I bought it in the '50s. It's wild.

Yeah.

I think my mortgage would be like 2.5 times what it is now.

It's insane. This is the answer. Pad split's the answer. One more. Vancouver, Washington.

Yeah, this is a gotcha one.

Okay. Yeah. Vancouver, Washington investors, the only way to cash flow in this market.

No, you can be the first.

I do think what we'll see as we start to market to the area, market to homeowners in the area, is that there's probably more opportunity to do it in Vancouver initially. Although, like, you know, as you know well, like, it used to be a very great market for investors in Vancouver.

The prices have gone up quite a bit, so you don't find the deals that you used to, you know. And your point in Atlanta is interesting. Like Atlanta used to be an amazing market for investors and it's like, you know, it's raised quite a bit compared to what it used to be.

So that's where I think we're seeing more and more people see it, pad splits or co-living as the only way that it really makes sense for a property to cash flow.

Who was the guy on the top? Do you know him?

Yeah, that's our president. Oh, okay. That's Cliff.

Okay.

Yeah, he's a Hopefully he doesn't watch this. I don't remember his last name. But yeah.

Cliff Padsplit.

Cliff.

Cliff Padsplit.

There you go.

You know what we get a lot? Split Pad.

Split Pad, yeah.

People say, hey, you're from Split Pad, right? I'm like, no.

I already bought that URL, by the way.

Oh, there you go.

Split Pad?

Yeah, I mean, first initial reaction, I'd say, yeah. I mean, that's kind of what I've seen out there. So many people in LA are like, I can't buy anything. It doesn't make any sense. And I will say, one of my favorite things when I do these presentations is talking to— investors and wholesalers that are both like, whoa, like all of a sudden just that huge margin of homes that I would never have considered, that now I'll be the only one looking there. You know, like, yeah, most fix and flippers or even buying wholesales, they're not really looking to buy 4 or 5 bedroom properties, right? They're like kind of in the 3, like the starter home vibe.

Yeah.

Right. And so the prices on those, they might sit a little longer, prices might be a little bit more soft. So now you can go in there and get a good deal.

Absolutely. And, and I think even when I was first starting to underwrite, and this was in the sub-2 community, it was like, okay, if you're gonna do co-living, it needs to underwrite as a long-term rental. Then that quickly went out the window. It was like, okay, well, now we're losing out on so many, you know, properties. So if this is the exit strategy you're gonna go for, go for it and make sure it works.

But yeah. And what I'd say, like, when I'm helping somebody underwrite a property is I say, like, be conservative in your numbers and you'll be okay, right? Like, if you're looking at our map and you see a zip code with 3 rooms in it and you're like, oh, $450 and it's 50% or it's 30% occupied, $450 a week. And that's what you're basing your numbers on. Bad call already off the bat. If it's like you need, you need data and if you don't have data, you got to make You just got to undercut the assumptions, right? And say, like, I know I can rent a room pretty much anywhere in Southern California for $1,000 a month. If you even just base it on that, you'll be okay.

Right.

But really, like, a 4-bedroom property, if you're looking to acquire something and it's, like, tight, I probably wouldn't do it. I'd probably, you know, see if I can— if you can add 2 rooms, you're probably going to make sense. If it's, you know, same thing at 5. If the numbers are so tight and you need 100% occupancy, Like, it's not the deal for you. No, you need you need to have some wiggle room because like at the end of the day, we're not gonna like oh you went live today, you're fully occupied forever and always tomorrow. There's there's some turnover that happens. It's a business. You just have to think of it like that.

Yeah, it's a rental business.

It's like stuff's gonna be priced. How many people talk to me like this is not renting real estate? Like you know they call me at like nine o'clock at night like what do you what should I do with this guy? I'm like. You're the landlord. Yeah, not, not to sound like I'm not helpful, but it's true.

Yeah, and, and maybe it's people who haven't rented anything. If you— once you rent, when you have a rental, like, you'll get PTSD from that.

Yeah, and it's— but it's experience. Yeah, I'm like, you, you have more experience than I do. What do you mean, what do you do?

Okay, maybe they had like the best, uh, tenants or like over the years.

And what they'll do is they'll sometimes— and like I said, I don't like to bash anybody, but They'll ask us for stuff that I'm like, if you really wanted us to do that, we wouldn't be charging a small percentage as a fee.

Right.

We'd be 50% partners in this deal with you. You're going to come in. You're going to renovate the whole house for us. You're going to furnish it, right? I'm like, oh, no. Nah, dog. You know what I mean? And I love that they think that we're capable of doing that across 25,000 rooms nationwide. But we just advise. But we do connect them with people. So I was at that Culver City event yesterday, and there was a guy that was like, I'm thinking about doing this. And one of our contractors that's on our vendor network was there. And I was like, hey, talk to JP over here. And they set up a bid and stuff like that.

Perfect.

That's why we try to flesh out that partner network so that way if somebody is like, hey, I want to do this, we make it as easy as possible for them. Excellent. Love that.

We have a couple comments, questions. What story stands out— this is from Liz. What story stands out to you, maybe a tenant, community or property that illustrate the non-financial benefits of what you're doing?

Yeah, so did I mention that I have— that we have like an internal review channel? So in our Slack, we have, we have a channel that aggregates all the reviews, right? And you get the bad reviews every once in a while, like, oh, PadSplit wouldn't let me in with my 320 credit score, like, how dare they? Uh, you know, even though I wanted to give them 3 weeks rent up front. But most— and then like, because we don't own the properties as well, every once in a while I have a host that's like, oh, the, the, you know, the bathroom flooded and they didn't do anything about it. And then they complain about PadSplit because they don't really know the differentiation there. But the majority, overwhelming majority of those reviews are like, this changed my life. Like, this— I was living in my car, this helped me buy a house, this helped me buy a business. That's the most amazing. So I don't have one off the top of my head that I could do that, but reach out to me, Liz, and I'll send you some of the top ones that we have. But just seeing those every day, there's those reviews that come in every day. This changed my life. And in LA, we're renting rooms for like $1,300 a month for a shared bathroom. That blows my mind because it's been since 2017 I rented a room or rented an apartment. And even then I was renting with family, so I wasn't paying market. But like, I'm— I can't imagine that. That's crazy. But when you look at like what a studio is, it's like $2,200.

I know.

A one-bedroom, $2,500. You're like, oh, no wonder. They're like jumping at this.

Yeah.

And to think about saving $600, $700, $800 a month on your rent, you know, that's a game changer. Like, in today's world, if you're saving to buy a house at some point, you're going to get married, do whatever, how do you ever put together that egg, the nest egg, essentially, to put a down payment down? You can't do it while paying rent, you know what I mean, at full market. So something like this helps people get ahead, right? I want to buy a limo because I want to start a driving service, you know. How do you ever start that? You have to cut your expenses somehow. And so either live on the street, live in your car, live at your mama house, or you live in a PadSplit.

Live in the limo.

Oh yeah, live in the limo.

Yeah, there you go. That's, that's his— that's, that's how he moves out of the PadSplit, is he saves the money to buy the limo.

Got it.

But you can only live in the front part.

Yeah, I mean, you're driving So I guess you're never— you never have to leave.

Okay, and then, uh, we have Coach Steph. Where is the most ideal state to pad split?

So I would say there's not like one ideal state. Um, Florida is a good market for us, pretty much anywhere in Florida. Um, they have a weird market going on right now in Florida because I, I don't know what it is. I'm not— I don't claim to be an economist in Florida, uh, but I think like it's just the insurance is expensive. I think property taxes have gone up. And I think with the hurricanes, people just don't want to do it. Like, we had somebody put on a 2-bedroom condo, and normally in LA I'd say that might not work, but she already had it, so it was like different vibes. And she couldn't rent it out as a whole thing, and she couldn't sell it either, and she was just trying to get out of it. And she rented it up, it filled up in a weekend. But, and she's like breaking even, right? She's not making a whole bunch of money, but at least she's not losing it. Yeah, not losing. Um, but Florida, Dallas is a spectacular market. I know, like, the whole DFW area. I helped a host onboard some properties in Dallas, one property on a Friday, it was 4 out of 5 filled by Tuesday. It was wild.

That's great.

Charlotte is usually a good market for us because of the purchase price to rent ratio. Yeah, I mean, Atlanta is always still like the— this is their more safe bet market because we have so much data there. The only thing that scares me is if I'm a new investor and I've never invested in Atlanta, Would I go into a market with 400 PadSplits in a zip code? Like 400 rooms?

Right.

I don't know.

Yeah.

You know, but not to say it won't work, but like, this is your first time. You're going in with the sharks. Like, these people have 10, 15 PadSplits out there. You know what I mean? So I'd probably say like starting a, you know, I get not everybody wants to buy properties in LA, but like Phoenix, Vegas, also great markets and lower acquisition costs.

Absolutely. Are you guys just in the US or are you out in other countries as well?

Just the US for now.

Okay.

I think Canada would probably be our next expansion. So that's why I didn't hear the beginning of that, if it was Vancouver, Canada, or is it Vancouver, Washington?

I think it was Washington.

Yeah, it was Washington. But I could see us doing well in Canada. I think that what we do in our expansion is we try to bite off only as much as we can chew. So that's why we— I think we open like 4 or 5 markets a year. So we launched Charlotte, LA, Philly this year. We're probably going to launch Portland any day now. I think we're just waiting until we get somebody To accept— I think he just accepted his offer like a week ago. So as soon as that guy is on board, we'll probably launch Portland. I think we soft launched Sacramento. We launched Boston. So I guess I'm at 6 already. And we're probably going to launch San Diego soon. And I was actually talking to our head of growth, and I was like, hey, so are we going to hire somebody in San Diego? And he's like, well, we have you.

You're like, it's right there on the map. It's like that.

Yeah, I was like, I better get some more miles on my knees. You're this close. I better see if I can renegotiate the mileage on my lease here. No, and I don't mind doing it. You know what I mean? Like, once, once both markets really get going, I'll be happy to hand that off to somebody. But like right now, you know, I love meeting people and chatting with people. So.

And you can, you can set people up in other states.

Oh yeah.

So they can go through you and you can, if they want.

Yeah. Like I met somebody the other day that owns a property that she's already doing this in San Antonio. And she was like, but I can't fill it. Like, I have such a hard time, like, thinking about trying to advertise for these rooms because it's like you have to advertise in different places. It's not just like throwing up on— throwing it up on Zillow and it fills. It's like you have to go on all these different websites, and that's kind of why it makes it easier to go with us, um, or like Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. And you gotta like field all these inquiries, you know. I always forget about that part, that that is a big headache.

That sucks so bad.

So that's where like we kind of like serve these people up on a silver platter. We're like, yes or no? Or just yes if you have the automatic bookings. Um, but yeah, I think, uh, I think we'll, you know, I don't mind covering San Diego. Um, but yeah, I do manage to help people invest in other states for sure. Like, I've helped somebody buy a property in Baltimore, actually. Baltimore is another market we're in too that we just launched.

I think we need to just blow up California though with Pat's.

It's gonna get crazy. So we launched here in April in, in LA, and when I say LA, like LA to the IE. It's like one big market for us, kind of. On the map, it's 2 markets technically, but, uh, there's like the IE and LA. But, um, I think it's gonna— it's, it's, it's taking off. Like I said, like the first time I was going out and about, like, I mean, I was a title rep. Like, I can walk into a room and talk to people. Like, that's not a big deal. But like, I was telling people like all about it and they're like, oh, so what is it, like Airbnb?

Mm-hmm.

Whatever, you know? And now I have all these people coming up to me I've never met and they're like, You want to be on my podcast? You want to come to my, my investor group? And I'm like, heck yeah. Now I'm having to tell people like, ah, I can't do anything for like a month. Yeah, you know, so like the schedule gets tight and stuff like that, but it's fun. I love it.

That's great. That's great news. Can it work in Hemet?

I mean, if the price is right, you know, it's like Bob Barker. It's— you gotta, you gotta adjust that price.

Like nothing is out there.

Yeah, like the Moreno Valley properties we have, they're getting like $192 per week.

But that's near a freeway. Like, that's probably—

They're on the edge of Moreno Valley.

Oh, okay. I think I saw that one on the map. Yeah, it's like pretty—

yeah, it's pretty deep. Yeah, I mean, they range from like $190 to $240 a week. And the common idea is people say, oh, like times 4, that's the rate, right? That's the monthly. And it's like, well, technically, not every month has only 28 days. So the real way to do the math is you go, You do the weekly rate times 52 divided by 12, and then I could see that.

Okay.

So I think like $300 a month equates to like roughly $1,300, or $300 a week roughly equates to about $1,300 a month. So $250, you're looking at like $800 or $900, I think. All right. So if that can work— 15-bedroom.

Yeah.

Yeah. But you know what I mean? Like 9 bedrooms, 7 bedrooms, if that can work, $900, or you underwrite it conservative, say $800 a month. Um, you just have to be where people are because there's a lot of—

It's not gonna work for you. You only have 2 bedrooms. No, no, no, no.

I'm not gonna do— this is like a mobile home in a 55+ community.

Yeah, that's—

but yeah, no, no, I'm not even saying for that. I'm just saying in general because I come across random, like they have random like 5-bedroom houses out there. Oh yeah, yeah, there's just—

yeah, that might work. That, that definitely should work.

It's just clientele, but that's fine. Um, very cool.

Yeah, and that's the other thing, right? So like some of our early Pad Splits were like kind of in the hood. Like there was one I went to go walk one time and I was like, I don't want to get out of my car. And that's, you know, that's not necessarily bad for Pad Split because it's affordable, right? But Yeah. You know, if you are managing a pad split in that and charging that neighborhood rates, it comes with problems sometimes. So like when people ask me what type of neighborhood should I do it in, it's like I say like C+, B.

Okay.

You know, I wouldn't go A because some people—

No, the neighbors are annoying at that.

That, and you're like Irvine, for instance. I'm like, it's tough. There's so much HOA and rules and everything like that. Like, I don't know if I I do Irvine, but I had talked to somebody the other day who was like, oh, I could do it here. Like, I have this property that would make sense for it. And I was like, hmm. And that's the end of the day. Like, I don't know every neighborhood.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So that's why I give these broad recommendations. Um, and we have some hosts that are trying to do some luxury pad splits. I, I tell them, I'm like, I don't know if it's gonna work, but you can try 100%, you know? But if you're, you know, charging $5,000 a month for a room, like, why don't they do a studio? Yeah, one bedroom.

Yeah, totally.

You really want to share a bathroom with somebody, right?

Yeah, it's got to work certain circumstances. Awesome, Devin, thank you so much for your time today.

Yeah, thank you.

We look forward to, uh, you know, having you, uh, in person on Monday. Yeah, so I'm super excited. Yeah, if everybody wants—

if anybody wants— never been there before.

Oh yeah, it's a, it's a good spot.

I kept seeing you guys have that and I was like, it just kept conflicting and I never got a chance to Stop by.

Well, now you get your chance. There you go.

You're a star.

If people want to reach out to you, what's the best way?

So just text me. I put my cell phone number— I've done that. I've put it out there for years.

Is it the 213 number?

No, it's the 562 number.

Oh, the 562 number.

OK. 562-673-3673. Just text me. I'll text you back. We'll figure out a time to chat. The reason why I don't say call is because people forget that. They're like, I have these call blocks with people, and then they try to call me, and they're like, how come you don't answer your phone? And you're like, remember that time we had our call block?

Yeah.

Because I'm talking to other people like that. You know what I mean?

It's like—

And it's like back to back.

Yeah. Some days, man, same thing back to in the beginning of this. I'd be like, oh, I have one call today. Today I had like 10 calls. Yesterday, 10 calls. It's like, this is nuts. I'd love it. I'd love to be in this place.

You need to get AI.

Yeah, I was talking to somebody, I was like, I need a VA or something. Yeah, that's what I gotta get because it's only gonna get bigger. Yeah, it's gonna be crazy.

They've got to be the same questions all over and over again, you know. You could train an AI to do that.

Well, and that's why I love doing these like webinars and meetups and stuff like that, because then when I actually talk to the person, it's just running the numbers for their house. They get it. Yeah, you know what I mean? I'm only one person. I'm the only West Coast employee for PadSplit right now. So there's only so many people I can hang out with, you know, over the phone or like have a call with. Like, I need to be able to spread this message faster with wider audiences. That's why I love these podcasts and stuff like that. It really helps cast a wide net.

Absolutely. You guys heard it here. Um, thanks for joining us and, uh, make sure to come out if you're local to the meetup on Monday where we're gonna do even more of a deep dive. You can ask your questions there too and really freak him out.

Even if you're not local, I've got, uh, my friend who donated the speakers. He comes from San Francisco.

He comes from San Francisco. And then I started streaming it on the last one. I streamed it.

Yeah, I invited somebody from San Diego.

So we'll stream it too.

Yeah, so I don't know if she's gonna be able to make it, but yeah, I told her, I was like, I'll be in Irvine or in, uh, Tustin on Monday.

When's the Lakewood one?

It's on September 30th. Yeah, September 30th on a Tuesday. My Pad Splits and Pizzas are— so originally, I would do Taco About Cash Flow.

That was the original.

But Pad Split and Pizza, I think, is better. But it's still Tuesdays.

You can eat a pizza on a Tuesday.

It's fine. It's allowed. There's no P-Day, so it makes sense. But yeah, if you guys want to know more, I have a meetup called Pad Split in SoCal. You can go on there. I post all the events, like the Monday event. I'll be there. Um, my pad's putting pizzas. Anything I, I host or I speak at, I post in there because I don't post things that I'm just attending to hang out at.

Oh yeah.

Oh, I don't want people tracking me.

Yeah, exactly. Nice. Right on.

Thank you guys.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Devin. Thank you guys for joining us. We'll be here. Um, we'll be on there on Monday and then we won't be here next week, but the following week. Cool.

Where are you going next week?

Doesn't matter, you guys. See ya.

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