Mastering Wholesale Real Estate with Kamil Aqil!

Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome back to the New and Experienced Investor Podcast. On today's episode, we're going to be talking about your first deal and wholesaling real estate. It's a hot topic. It's a new craze all the kids are doing. I'm one of your hosts. I'm Alex Barnett. I'm the new guy.

And I'm Joe Homs and I'm the experienced guy.

Yes.

We have an amazing guest here today. Another one. I don't know how we keep doing it, but, uh, he's a young man. He's a surfer. He's a father. He is, um, he's just getting started in real estate and already making a splash in the scene, Orange County scene. So we're very lucky to have him. Uh, you wanna make sure not to miss this one, so please share this far and wide. But before we bring him on, let's talk about our meetup.

February 24th, Hangar 24. Uh, my special guest will be Aaron Rosen. Aaron is an insurance guy, and he's going to talk about insurance for investors.

Fun.

Like, what is happening with everything right now? Can you imagine how many people in the Palisades were actually renting out their homes and stuff, and now they've lost Not only their home, but they've lost that income that comes in. So he's going to talk to us about how to protect your investment. It—

you do not want to miss that one. That is like some life or death stuff. Um, I always like to remind you guys while you are here, this is a live show, so please make sure to jump in the chat, ask some questions. You got full access to our guest Joe and myself, so get those questions answered. It's one of our most requested parts of the show because we're going to pull up your, uh, your, your chat and your questions towards the end of the show. So it's fun, little interactive. So make sure, share this, jump in, get involved. So to launch into the topic of wholesaling real estate, let's go ahead and give our 2 tips of the week, shall we?

Do you want to go first?

Yeah, mine is number one, Pick either acquisitions or dispositions when you're first starting. Don't try to do everything because when you're looking at the wholesale process, you're gonna lock up a property, that's acquisitions. Then you're also gonna sell the property, that's dispositions. On the surface, it seems very easy, but once you dive into each part, it's actually pretty complicated to do both. So I would suggest partnering with someone that's doing the opposite of whatever you are doing. Get a bunch of deals under your belt and then figure out how to systematize that after.

My tip is to partner up with somebody. If you've never done this before in the past, it's always good to reach out to somebody that has and is willing to teach you. You don't have to pay an arm and a leg for it. There's people like Alex and myself that will teach you for free, will give you all the tools you need, and even give you the contracts as well. So big tip there. And, uh, before I turn it back, uh, I don't like to forget that we are the number one podcast in Laguna Hills.

Number one.

Number one live podcast in Laguna Hills. There's also one other person you can partner with, and that's our guest. Let's go ahead and bring him in. Cam, my friend, welcome to the show.

What up? What up?

Thank you so much for being here. How are you?

Um, I'm doing great. I'm really excited. This is, this This is awesome.

I love it. Thank you for joining us. Why don't you go ahead and jump in? Let the audience know kind of how you got into real estate, what you were doing before that, what led you there.

Yeah, I gotta thank my mom. She helped me get into real estate. I was doing software development. I'm in the tech, I'm from the tech world. And what happened was my dad was a little bit, he was ill and my mom was trying to figure out how to make money. So she was looking on these you know, how to make money quick kind of things. She ended up at a Grant Cardone thing. I wanted her to not, you know, spend her money and kind of save her money for the household. So I said, I'm going to go with you so that you don't get scammed. You know, I had money for a phone, an iPhone. It was broken at the time. It was an iPhone 7. And I needed the money then to buy the phone. I ended up spending $1,000 on the course. I went to a 3-day course, got a high-level overview of wholesaling. And it made sense to me. It was like an A to B, you know, made sense. There's a Peter Lynch quote is, if you can't explain a business on a napkin, then it's too complicated. And this was pretty simple. It was like, find a property, sell it to a buyer, and get the money. So I was like, okay, there's something there. I didn't really like learn everything in that 3-day course. So I wanted to find a community, did a little bit of Googling. I found a club in Riverside there, and they kind of taught us a little bit about pre-foreclosures. So I was a little bit more informed, started door knocking with them, wasn't really getting any success. This is since 2020. I started COVID, and I remember people were you know looking through their curtains and things, and nobody was talking to each other. And I was door knocking like a cuckoo, feeling like. Just really desperate and all this kind of stuff and wanting to figure it out. I really needed to make it happen. You know, kept going. No, no, no success. I wanted to look for another community. And just so happened I found OCJV. And Alex was happening to have a cold calling session that day. I was jumping around from door knocking to cold calling to texting to doing all this kind of stuff, thinking I needed the right pitch and XYZ. Saw Alex make one phone call and it was kind of like he talked to his friend, but he was speaking to a homeowner. And I was like, kind of my eyes opened like, oh, okay, I like how Alex is doing it. And he seems like kind of a cool guy. I'm going to try to mimic that and copy that. So he ended up having those weekend cold calling sessions and I went to a few of those and really tried to hone down my Attitude on how I was coming and talking to these homeowners. And so once that happened, I started having some good conversations. And a little fast forward a little bit more, I found another door knocking group who gave me a framework, a closer framework. He's kind of taking Alex Hormozi's closer framework. And I applied that to the attitude and using the framework and basically door knocking these leads that we were on. So the one that we ended up closing on was one we door knocked around 2022. What happened was the homeowner had lost her husband, so she was primarily paying for the property. Her daughter had stage 4 cancer, so they were both kind of in a tough situation. We helped them get in touch with a bankruptcy attorney. So they were in bankruptcy for some time, and then mom ended up having a stroke. I think 2 of them actually. So she was kind of out of work. And what happened was we were looking on a list to follow up on things that we had already contacted and were in auction now. So this was one of the properties and we happened to call her. Well, my mom did actually. So she was just calling. The daughter happened to be lying in bed. She said everyone was calling her all day and something told her to pick up the phone and it was my mom's phone. And my mom's like, hey, you know, don't let it go to auction. Like, just let us come over. And then my mom was like, when she hung up the phone, I remember her being like really excited. And I was on my way home from work and she was like, hey, this is like, you need to figure this out. They're like, I think they're going to sell and so on and so forth. So I get home and she's like, we need to call like a club member. We need to call somebody who can buy it. And I was like, why don't we just like lock it up? You know, we're already there. Like, we kind of know what to do. We already kind of have someone lined up for this, and let's just try to lock it up ourselves. We know how to run the numbers. And so she was like, well, what contract are we going to use? And we had like a million different, like Jerry Norton, Jamil Jamji, like all these YouTube ones downloaded. And I was like, let's look at all of them. Let's look at the easiest one for us to understand. Like, I just want a one-pager. I don't want a two-pager. I want one page. I wanna— and all of the clauses that we had known from all the YouTube University stuff. I was like, as long as those are on there, I think we're going to be okay. So we did that, we printed it out, we went over, I had the numbers kind of ready. And I think this one ended up being a win-win-win because the homeowner ended up walking away with cash. We got a little bit of an assignment and then our buyer was pretty happy with that. And so that was pretty cool. It happened. The check cleared and that's that. So now—

Nice.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's your journey into real estate and pre-foreclosures in general. That's inspiring. I mean, what drew you to this niche in real estate? And what was that aha moment for pre-foreclosures?

It's a little personal. I mean, my mom had been affected by it. I think she was already kind of YouTubing it, trying to learn how to get it going for herself. And I really wanted to, one, protect her and kind of help her. And it made sense to me, like the A to B made sense, which was you're sourcing a product and you're selling it to somebody. So like the wholesale aspect of it really made sense. And, you know, it's like once we kind of visited these homeowners, I mean, we've helped a lot of homeowners with these like California mortgage relief programs and then like directing them into like loan mods. And so So we've saved homeowners from pre-foreclosure and kind of seeing that and people being thankful for that. And so it's been, yeah, I mean, that's really what it is. It's touching homeowners and having like a solid impact on them. Love that.

What's your approach when you're there in person? Because Joe and I went on an appointment one time and we do like the good cop, bad cop thing. where I'm just like agreeing to everything that they're saying, even though like most of it is like pie in the sky. And Joe's just like, that's not gonna happen. There's no way you're gonna lose your house if you don't sell right now. And I'm like, no, no, no, you'll be fine. We can probably get you a little bit, like another week or so. So what is your approach when you're there and you're dealing with people who are desperate, sometimes delusional, And in denial.

Yeah, I mean, that's a good approach. I think me and my mom do the exact same thing. Uh, you want to listen to them, you want to be caring, and you want to help them. Like, but at the end of the day, there's some, uh, reality to the situation, and there's only certain things that they can do. And me and my mom also play a little bit of the good cop, bad cop. Like, we never really like formally discussed like, oh, okay, like, hey, you're gonna be a little bit hard and I'm gonna be a little bit soft. We both kind of try to come in a little bit. Okay, let's see. And then sometimes I feel my mom suggests a little bit too much to them. And but again, I think that works for us because we're really trying to make it work for them. Like we're gonna brainstorm or do whatever it is to to come up with a solution for them. So yeah, I mean, I really like that. You know, you do need to be a good cop. Like, you need to be able to listen to them, hear them out. Like, I think you said, you know, the other homeowner's therapist kind of walked her through and said that it's going to be a growing experience for her. And I've heard from many other wholesalers that we're their therapists first. And because they're going through distress, and I think maybe like a lot of people don't acknowledge that, like they know they're like, oh, like, They just see a, a fish bleeding in the water versus like, you know, somebody who really needs help or something like that. So maybe they can sense that too, you know, homeowners, right? Yeah.

I like being the bad cop. I love it because I have to bring them to reality. You know, they're all like, Joe, can you save my house for me? Uh, Can you get a job in the next 3 months, enough to pay back what you owe? If not, no, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna tell you the truth, you can't. I mean, do we wanna go down to the last day and then you call me back and say, Joe, I'm ready. Well, geez, I only have 1 day to fix this for you? No, that doesn't happen either. But you know how many times that happens?

Oh yeah.

You know, all the time. It's like, oh yeah, I've got 1 day before I get foreclosed on, can you help me?

Yeah. And there was like our best flip that we've ever— that I've had was a pre-foreclosure. And the guy wanted to keep pushing off the signing. He was like, I'm going to sign. But— and Joe was like, no, we got to go over there right now. And we had to like wake him up.

Yeah.

We'd be like, dude, you have to do it right now. And then, you know, in the end he was freaking out because we had like this much time to stop the auction.

We had 3 days.

Yeah.

And it was, touch and go. And he's like, you gotta do it, man.

You gotta save me.

And you were the one that took forever to sign. But, um, you know, if it wasn't for Joe to like push us to go over there, it would've never happened. So.

No, that's, um, I think even to touch on that a little bit more, my mom's part of a deal right now in Cypress where, uh, they were in escrow, auction was coming up. Uh, I think they opened like 3 days before, um, Auction. So anyhow, they needed her, and the condition with the buyer to like completely close and record was she needed to vacate. That didn't happen. Her house went up to— went to auction, auctioned for more than they had offered to purchase it for. So they were in a little bit of a fiasco. And yeah, but you know, that happened. So—

Yeah.

But anyway, yeah, I mean, they've, they've worked it out. since worked it out. I mean, it's a happy ending actually. Now we're kind of— I believe they're moving her out and it's still, uh, back in their possession. But, uh, you know, complicated the deal.

There's a lot of things that, uh, there's a lot of things that you need to do if you're a wholesaler, and you have to think out of the box sometimes. You know, you have to be creative. That's a perfect situation. Um, I've rented, uh, You know, moving trailers for people and hired people to move people out of a house because time's out. I mean, time's over just like that one. They didn't want to— I'd be calling a moving van and a couple of guys and, you know, let's get, uh, let's get all this stuff out of here. And then I'd rent a space for them for the month and, you know, it'd be up to them to pay it after that. But, uh, sometimes you have to think out of the box.

That's what we did on mine. Uh, you know, we, we got a restorer I got 2 of my buddies, we got some U-Hauls, we helped her out. This particular one, I— it's— there's a few other people involved and stuff like that, so I can't really go into all that. But other— I completely agree with you, you know.

What are some key indicators when, you know, when you're looking at— you pull your list of pre-foreclosures, so you're doing notice of default, which is they're— they've missed their payment for a certain amount of time, and then you're doing the notice of trustee sale. Which is they're going to auction. Are you looking at both of those lists?

Correct.

Okay. What are some key indicators when you're looking at these that identify sort of a high potential pre-foreclosure?

So one that I'm really thinking about these days is loan-to-value. So I try to keep it within— I mean, maybe you guys can help me with this later, but I have it like within 30 to 70%. And my reasoning is that there are some equity in those properties. And it's not like they have to pay too much. I feel these people have money to walk away with. And that's kind of a value that we can offer them. If this is coming up and you have some money, we can get you some cash and to where it makes sense for everybody. So that's pretty much it. NODs, NTSs with the combined loan-to-value at 30% to 65%. You know, owner occupied. I'm going for like the real, like entry-level single-family homes. And that's pretty much it. Like if we— I know, and I'm thinking about going after these joint affidavit of deaths with NOD NTSs because those I think indicate probate.

Right.

So now that's the next step. Is to add and kind of list stack a little bit to target a little bit more. Actually, something cool. I'm excited. I'm here. Got to you know you had those posts to share and stuff. So a guy on Instagram who I've been talking to, I've never met. I was like, "I work in code enforcement and I come across properties all the time." I see you buy them. You know, is there something we could do with this? And I was like, "Let's let's chat after this a little bit later this evening," and I'd love to learn and partner up and. So that was really cool. Uh, you know, I, I don't know, like, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm gonna try to tell a little bit more— I mean, advertise more on social media and try to be more open about what I'm doing.

I gotta be like, it may not be number 1, get me in the top 5 of your buyers list.

Oh no, you're there, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, cool.

Thank you.

Well, you had, you had that cop that reached out to you the other day, right?

Yeah, yeah. So we had, um, crackheads breaking into our flip Um, so I had to just, you know, get, get the berries and cherries down there to just, you know, a little show of force just to keep, you know, the riffraff out. Um, and I could see, we, I like, I installed a camera so I could see him up there and then he left and he called me. He's like, hey, did you like, it looks really good in there. Like, did you guys flip this? Like, yeah. He's like, I kind of wanna like get into that. Like, what do I gotta do? So I was like, dude, you were like driving for dollars in the best area. You know, for all this stuff. But I gotta, I gotta reconnect to them 'cause that was before Christmas.

Oh, okay.

So we'll see.

For sure.

I mean, like, uh, yeah, I mean, that's just on the, along the same lines as the, you know, what you were just talking about. Coding folks, you know, those, those are great ones. We also had, um, a locksmith.

Yeah.

That we ran into.

I, I need to call that guy too. Oh, I, wow. That's like 8 months ago.

Hold on.

You still haven't called that guy?

Hold on.

Yeah.

I'm not being rude. I'm not texting. I'm just making a note because Yeah, that's a good lead.

I'm reminding you of all these good leads.

Right.

Good lead sources.

Call Cop.

Yeah.

Call Locksmith.

Call Locksmith.

Because he did, he said—

He does the lockouts.

Yeah, the lockouts for the judgments, for the evictions.

Yeah. So that's a good source. It's really a good source.

Yeah. But that's great, man.

I mean, that's— But you didn't follow up.

I know I didn't follow up.

There's so much to do.

But that's from you just posting a couple times and he reached out to you?

He shared the post that you, uh, had telling us that we're gonna be having this podcast.

There we go.

Yeah, really nice. I gotta thank you a lot, man. Like, you know, even, uh, you had a post that we collabed on, right? One that you, uh— so I mean, uh, it's all, uh, coming together. And you said like looking out for people that are willing to help, and that's kind of what I love most about this community. This particular buyer had looked at another property that I was close to getting into contract. And one thing he told me was like, hey, I'll help you take it to the finish line. Give me the first look and that's it. I don't want to find this in some other daisy chain and XYZ. And I was like, okay, I'll respect that. And he did. And that's so cool. That's why I really like this industry. You get to work with cool people who Do things on their own terms, and so real solid, man. I'm I'm really excited about that. I got to give a big shout out to him too. So, but you're Cash King. Yeah, yeah. What is it?

Captain Cash. Captain Cash.

Captain Cash.

Yeah.

I'm gonna call that guy randomly for some wholesale stuff.

Cool to get cool guy.

Yeah.

Super cool dude. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, all right.

Well, he got the deal.

I didn't.

No, no, no. No, dude.

Trust me.

I wish I could.

Honestly, I'm just joking. No, no, no, no.

The next. No, for sure though.

I No, whatever, whatever makes sense for you. I'm just, I'm glad you're doing it.

You know what it is, is like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of new. I'm a, I'm a bit of a worrywart. And like, uh, you know, it was like kind of happening. I was like, what do I do? What do I do? Uh, Jason Lee was a huge help. Like, he offered to like help me TC it and stuff. But it just happened that this guy was like, hey, I'll show you everything. Like, I didn't even know.

That's great.

Who to call or escrow or what to do. And When I EMD, like I zelled the homeowner $100, like, and then he's like, you're not supposed to do that. Oh yeah, like, right. Yeah. Should I get that back?

Yeah.

I don't think so. Can you return that?

That's great. He's like, I already spent it.

That's great.

No, for sure. Yeah. I mean, if anyone's going to help you, it's going to be a guy named Captain Cash.

For sure.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, yeah, I know.

That's, that is awesome. So with so many wholesalers competing for deals, how would you say you differentiate yourself?

It's kind of funny. I go door knocking with my mom and our partner Maggie. I don't know, maybe we don't look like door knockers. My mom's a little elder and not super old, but she's a nice lady and Maggie is as well. And I've gotten the comment a lot, Where they're like, oh, you know, I have people coming to my door all the time, and I just like, I'm just watching them. And then I saw these two old ladies come up, and I was like, oh, I gotta open the door and see what's going on. And then it just—

see, that works.

That is a good—

we're called the NOD Nannies. So yeah, shout out to them, dude.

Oh my God, that's great.

I love that.

That's a show right there.

That's an HGTV show. NOD Nannies. Yeah.

Nice.

So if they're watching, hi guys. Love you a lot.

Oh my God, that's so cool. Yeah. And real estate's kind of good for that. You can make it a family business.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's really cool, man. Really rewarding. I'm really excited to see where this goes and just keep building from here.

Yeah. And it's just a testament to when we first met, like you mentioned, to all the way till now when you just cashed the check recently. It's a game of Persistence.

Oh, I, I wanted to quit so many times.

Like, okay, yeah, that, that's kind of my question. Like, how do you stay motivated, you know, and push through the inevitable setbacks that happen?

It's a bit— I mean, I, you know, I have, uh, 2 sons now, thank God. I'm, uh, wanting to provide for them, my family. I want to, you know, I love to surf. I want to surf when it's good. I want to just do that. And, um, so That desire, knowing it's possible. I mean, being in the community and meeting people and kind of seeing, okay, it's real. It's not just on YouTube or it's these gurus and whatever. Like, there's real people doing real business and you can do it. Like, and, and Maggie, our door knocking partner, because me and my mom, we love each other a lot. But you know, as mother and son, sometimes there's little bickering here and there or disagreements about how we should. do things. And so Maggie is like the buffer. And that's why I think having a community, your team is very important. It's not like a lone wolf sport.

Yeah.

What would you say since you're doing door knocking, what are some tips for newbies when approaching the door knocking?

Try not to think of it as a sale or That you're like working. You're really visiting someone who's in need of your help, and you just can offer that to them. And if they're not really willing to receive it, it's no harm, no foul. I mean, like, and if you have that attitude, I think you're going to get through a lot. Like, I think you also kind of stay in the fight. You know, like, don't let them just like kind of shut you out. Like the first, oh, we're good. You know, like, okay, well, you know, what do you have going on? Sometimes we know. Lawyer, you know, people drop the ball and have you gotten in contact? Or so just, you know, being, uh, you know, I'm in Michael Barsina, another shout out. Uh, he, he always likes to use the phrase curious and confused.

Mm-hmm.

So if you're always curious and confused as to why they're in their situation and you want to know a little bit more about what's going on and just like, hey, you know, you just look listening for red flags. Like, okay, like if they haven't heard back from their lender and a certain period of time, or if they're working with a lawyer. Like, those are little, like, points that you could be like, okay, like, I'm a little concerned that your lawyer hasn't given you any feedback in the last month, you know, and the time's coming up. And so curious and confused is the, is the approach and the attitude I like to take.

You know, I have a, I have a tip. It works all the time, never fails. You knock on the door really loudly. You yell FBI search warrant. Come on out, and they come out.

They're like, yeah.

No, I'm sure if you have fun with them, you know. I think that's it's just I think I'm just kidding. Well, yeah, no, I know. No, no, I know.

Yeah, yeah, don't do that. Don't do that. Yeah, don't do that.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you had you you use a line kind of like that where you're curious. You're like, oh, when was the last time you talked to him?

Yes.

And then they're like, oh, I don't know. The sale date's coming up for sure.

Especially, especially when they've hired an attorney, they've spent, you know, $5,000 to $10,000, and the attorney just brushes them off and, you know, doesn't follow up or do anything.

Honestly, they can't do much more than you can, and you're doing it for free, right? You know, right? No, totally. Yeah, it's— and we— I was telling Alex earlier, we know of a homeowner who was working with a lawyer, and, uh, the lawyer had delegated to a paralegal who ended up not filing and, uh, they lost their home.

Yeah. Oh yeah, it happens all the time.

It's crazy.

Like, it happens all the time. Yes.

So I mean, this is concerning. Yeah, it's quite concerning.

Yeah.

And yeah, exactly. It's like you're talking about one of the biggest, you know, assets, if you want to call it that, that these people have. And some guy forgot to—

an oopsie.

Yeah, some guy was hungover and forgot to file the one piece of paper.

Terrible.

Yeah. What are what are some responses that you get when when you when you go door knocking? Is there pretty much you know just like a set number of responses now at this point?

You just for sure. Yeah, there's you know we got it taken care of.

You know that's number one.

My favorite F you don't come back here again. Oh yeah. Yeah yeah. Number two. Very rarely these days. Yeah.

People are usually pretty nice at the door. When I first went a couple times, I thought they were going to be all pissed off, especially because they're in this situation. But everyone's like no, it's okay, man.

For sure. Like, that's a 1 out of 10 situation, maybe max, maybe, you know, I'd even say 1 out of 20 possibly. But if you're coming up, you know, like a nice concerned person and just trying to see what's going on, a big thing is we like to tell them, you know, we're in the neighborhood helping a homeowner who is going through a similar situation. And I found that you're in the same place. So just wanted to check in with you. Sometimes we get our information wrong, but have you got a notice from your lender? And then they're like, oh yeah, you know, blah blah blah. And then it kind of just goes from there. It's like, how do you know about this? How do you know? Okay, well, you know, we do pull public lists, and that's how we find out where what's going on, and just want to make sure you're okay. And that's the approach really. And like, so they're more more more more often than not, they're pretty receptive. And this, you know, just asking them a question relating to what's going on, and then them being like, okay. Uh, you know, either I'm working with someone or, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

So you've like— I always follow up when they say they're working with somebody. I, I press them. I go, okay, who are you working with?

For sure. For sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's, uh, yeah. Stay in the fight. Don't, don't let them, uh, let you go. You know, as long as until you know, like that they're doing one of the few options that they have, which is they've filled out the loss mitigation, they're working, either gonna Maybe do bankruptcy, hopefully not get a hard money lender, or they're going to sell. From my understanding, those are what they have as options. And then, you know, they should know where they are in the timeline of whatever they're doing. And I think if whoever they're working with is not informing them, those are perfect opportunities for you to come in and provide that value for them. Yeah, definitely. Don't, don't let other people who are helping them scare you off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's all about the follow-up. Now, going back to that first Grant Cardone thing and you spent your money, your phone money on the course, what are the biggest misconceptions about wholesaling that maybe some ideas that you had then versus going through the whole thing now? What are some misconceptions that people might have about wholesaling You know, especially, I guess, in the pre-foreclosure space?

I mean, I for one thought it would have been easier.

Grant makes it seem so easy. He's like, you just got to get out there, man. You got to do it. You got to kick ass and—

Just pay me $10,000 and I'll show you how to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I didn't 10x anything back then, so—

That's all right.

Yeah, no, it's good. I got the high-level exposure. Misconception. Like, it doesn't need to be so complicated. They, they also kind of, uh, they give you the high level, but then they, they went into wraps. Like, in the, in the 3-day training, we were like sandwich wraps. I was like, what, what are we talking about here? Like, just tell me how to get a lead. And like, you know, I wanna— I don't know, like, you're going from— now we're doing black belt level, like, technique. Like, so— The misconception is that you need, like, I don't know, the best pitch or the best, like, I mean, I don't know, maybe I didn't really feel like there were misconceptions because I kept going. Like, I was like, I know there's something there. Like, they definitely were like, this is, you know, it's, there's properties, people sell them, the people are in these situations. And I was like, nothing really seems fake of what they're saying. I was like, right. I felt like I was scammed because I didn't have the money for the iPhone and all that. But then, like, you know, like, it's, uh, I did learn something. And then I ended up in the, uh, and in my club and learned a little bit more. And I also felt like they were kind of like not showing us everything either. They were— they just really wanted you to warm the lead up and then they could come close and then dispo and do all that type of stuff, which then kind of led my journey to like building my, uh, my buyers list and that type of stuff. And you talked about specializing in acquisition or disposition, and I completely agree. You need to have that skill honed down. And I've just been— this is my first deal and I started in 2020, so I just had enough time to set that all up. But yeah, I would say just focus on one and don't need to do everything. It's a team sport.

Yeah, I like how you went there and you're like, Mom, I'm just gonna go so you don't get scammed.

And then sign me up. Yeah, sign me up. I have a thousand. Yeah, well, it's kind of fun. That's why I brought this, because I was like, me and I'm gonna go buy me and my mom 2, uh, phones.

Let's go! There we go.

That's why I got it.

Nice. Awesome, dude. Yeah, see? And then Grant would be like, see, I knew you had it in you.

Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, uh, no, no, uh, ill feelings.

No, of course. I mean, that, that's The whole part of the journey is picking which mentor to, to follow, you know? And, and it's all fundamental stuff really. I mean, it's all stuff that, like, even you're talking about wraps and all that, that's been around forever. It's just how these people package it.

And for sure, I just wasn't ready.

Yeah, exactly. No, no. Oh yeah, yeah. For that.

So it's like, that's too overwhelming, right?

Because it's like, let me stay focused on this one thing. I mean, that's the hardest thing when you get into real estate. I, I've been down every frigging road now to where I was like gonna be developing multifamily. That's like, no, let me, let me do this couple things here.

At least one thing. Is the Hawaii trip back on?

Not as of now. No.

No.

Oh geez.

They went out to do an— we were gonna, we were looking at a 15-bedroom, 5-bath house in Hawaii to turn into co-living. Um, so we were gonna like fly out there to go do an inspection, but it ended up kind of like Not being the—

they were on the plane.

Yeah.

We were like, we're—

they were on the plane.

Man, I would've done, I would've done something for you guys too.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

I got a hammer.

Like, does that help? What's, you know, speaking of the education part, what's like one book, podcast, or mentor that has had the biggest impact on your real estate journey?

Okay.

I mean, the book that kind of really made an impact in my life most recently was 48 Laws of Power. It's kind of weird, but changed my mindset on how I approach a lot of situations and just kind of keep keeping grounded. So that was one. Mentor, I gotta say, I, I don't know, they may be controversial, but like Jamil Damji and Jerry Norton.

Mm-hmm.

Some people, they say they're a little too guru-y or something, but I learned a lot from them. I used Jerry Norton's contract in my deal. And the way that I built my buyers list was using Jamil Damji's process through Privy and looking through the recently flipped and then just kind of doing some outreach and then building up a local list.

Yeah.

And both of those things worked for me. So I got to say, if it wasn't for their content, I wouldn't have the confidence or the vision. Um, so, so those 2 guys and then, uh, you guys. So, so, uh, I gotta say thank you to you for, for real, like, you know, putting the time.

No, it's not why I asked the question, but thank you. I appreciate it.

No, no, seriously, like, um, you know, uh, you're out here putting a lot of, uh, you know, uh, effort and love into the community. I, I, uh, even with other, uh, cold calling, uh, sessions and stuff, and I can see that, you know, you're really pouring a lot into the community and the people around you. So that OCJV, I don't know if you know Jason Lee or not, but he was really willing to help. I went to an OCJV meetup one time and he came up to me. He's like, I'm going to help you close your first 2 deals. And then after that, we're going to work together. And I was like, who does that? Are you guys all too nice or something? And I really am excited to be around that community and work with those people. Um, and, and, uh, Captain Cash. So yeah, big shout out.

There you go. Captain Cash. Not— it's different than Captain Creams.

Okay.

Joe gets those confuses. Nobody was—

nobody's gonna know what that is.

Okay.

All right. All right. Okay.

Okay.

Yeah. I, I thought you were gonna say it's different than Kash Patel.

Oh yeah, I know that too. That too. All right, let's, let's break down these pre-foreclosures. Okay. So we talked about notice of default. What, what exactly is that? So we can—

Yeah, notice of default is when a homeowner hasn't paid their mortgage payment in 3 months, then what happens is their lender will make a public notice. And that's what I understand notice of default to be. So that's kind of their situation. And then they have about 21 days To take it from— to basically resolve their notice of default. Otherwise, they'll go into a notice of trustee sale, which is basically letting them know that it's going to go into auction. Sorry, so I may have said that wrong. So NOD is a 90-day process. So it's when they start NOD, they have 90 days to resolve their issue. And then if not, they have a notice of trustee sale, which is then a 21-day time period for them to basically— that's like, hey, take care of it, otherwise the home's going to auction, public auction. And then it's up to, you know, the bidders, and they get to take care of it from there. So what we try to do is come in and get in touch with the homeowners, see where they're at, see what they want to do. And based off of what they want to do, we offer them the reality of like, hey, these are your options. So, you know, we let them know like, hey, this is what we think you should do. This is what you can do. And if you need any help, we're here to connect you and assist you with whatever you need. So.

I remember there was a time where you were going for the California mortgage relief angle. Is that still plausible?

No, it's actually not available anymore yet.

Oh, okay.

I believe the fund ran up or ran out of money. But yeah, that was, you know, that angle kind of was not— it was good for us to connect with homeowners, build credibility. And but my mindset was not in closing. And I know, like, it's not really a sale, but you— but to run the business, you do need to let them know and be honest about why you're there and what you're doing. And I also think now with that approach, like letting them know we are investors, we do purchase properties. Like if they ask, you know, it's not like something we tell them, but they're like, hey, what are you doing here? You know, like, oh, we are investors. We're looking for properties. We do help homeowners. And, you know, so, so if you are, you know, like if we can't help you and you do need to sell, we'd be here to help you out with that. And I think that people are a little bit more receptive to that when you're more honest versus You you're like, oh, I'm this like guy who just goes around helping people for free and like connecting you. And like, do you work for California Mortgage Relief? Like no. Like who do you work for? You know, and like why are you even doing this? So like, like I don't think you need that approach. Like of being like, oh, trying to like sneak in. You can be honest about who you are and what you're doing. And then, you know, the homeowner selling their property sometimes is the best solution for them. And As if you believe that, I think you have a lot better conversations with homeowners and they're not confused as to what you're doing.

Yeah.

Good.

I think that's— yeah, I think, I think you're right on. Just honesty is the best policy for sure. Uh, were there times where you actually helped somebody out, maybe stopped their mortgage, um, and then didn't get the deal, or I was not— stopped the auction and then didn't get the deal and they were, they You know, were able to do something else and keep the house?

Uh, yeah, a few. I mean, a few times, uh, a few through the California mortgage relief.

Okay.

Uh, a few bankruptcies. And then, uh, another gentleman, we helped him postpone. He did like one of those skeleton BKs, um, and then bought some time. And then I think he got some money and is still in his property and stuff. But interesting situation. He kind of took us for a ride and like, um, And I was like gonna sell him for the, the money to do the skeleton BK. Turns out this guy has like 7 properties. He's like totally chilling. Like, I was like, what's going on here?

Like, he's like, if you can just sell me like $450.

I was ready too. I was like, oh man. But then, you know, it's like, it's all the learning lessons. Yeah, it's fun.

Do you believe now that every single person that you talk to is a liar? Have you gotten to that point? Have you gotten to that point yet?

Uh, yeah, I mean, I, I was already almost there, but yeah, yeah, for sure.

It's, it's not, it's not that they're liars, it's that you have to verify all the information that you get from them. So I guess that's a nice way of saying that they're liars, but, uh, yeah, just verification. How did your property look? Oh, it's gorgeous, I just rehabbed it. Oh, can you send me some photos? I send you these photos. And it looks like a hoarder house. I go, wait a second, I thought you said you had rehabbed everything. Yeah, I did, but then I moved in. Okay, this is like my house. I moved in. Oh God. Yeah.

Or they say they recently rehabbed it. They're like, no, recently, 2009. Yeah, that's not that recent.

Time flies.

Exactly.

Yeah, I've gotten to that point now where I'm just— I just don't believe them. You know, when I used to believe everybody at face value.

So, uh, no, I'd say I'm pretty gullible. I think that's been— I just, I'll— yeah.

Yeah. You wanna believe him? You're like, yeah, why would he lie to me? And then he's like, this guy, he has like a portfolio of 7 houses. Yeah.

Easily.

Yeah. Def— you know, there you go.

What, um, you talked about bankruptcy. What does that do for the homeowner and does it affect them down the road?

Definitely.

Yeah.

I mean, it, So that's case by case. Like, we'd really want to only— we'd like to tell people it's a Band-Aid, more or less, and want them to know, like, hey, do you know that your bill is going to go up and it's going to show up? You know, so if they can't afford their mortgage payment and they're in bankruptcy, I guess they're just kind of like kicking the can down the road.

Mm-hmm.

But I think for some people it is okay. Like, they have income. They were in a bad spot, you know, and they just need to get back on track. So I think it's case by case. But yeah, more often than not, we want to tell them like, hey, if you're not working and you don't have enough income to cover the increased mortgage payment, then it's not going to be a good idea. And I think it's what, like the amount owed divided up over 5 years and added to their mortgage payment? Is that correct? I believe so. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a modification. Uh, okay. I thought in bankruptcy it's something similar like this, but—

No, no. I mean, a bankruptcy in your case, uh, wholesaler case, would just be used to stall the foreclosure. If, if they're serious about doing a full bankruptcy, then yeah, that's a different story.

Yeah, yeah.

But still, even then, even then, the banks are very sophisticated. They have their own lawyers and stuff. You know, you're going to forestall the foreclosure for about 30 days, but after that, they're going to go into bankruptcy court and tell the judge, hey, you know, this is what he owes us, and the only way for us to get money is if we sell it. Okay, go sell it.

Yeah, that's kind of what happened on that Cypress one that my mom was part of that way because we were trying to do that skeleton BK again and the lawyer was like, "Hey, they've done it so many times. The trustee is just not gonna accept it. Like, there's just no right no doing that." But I think in in regards to the real bankruptcy, like sometimes we'll let them know that that is an option for them. So like. We had 2 homeowners who had like businesses that were down. They started generating income again. They were kind of back in a, in a good spot. And so I guess a bankruptcy made sense for them because like they were able to afford their mortgage plus the bankruptcy and stay in the property. It's just they weren't getting the loan modification. Like she actually had to file for bankruptcy.

But well, whatever works.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, ultimately, like, we— part of the Closer formula is like labeling the homeowner to see if there's a seller or a saver. And so if, you know, if they're a saver, like, we're going to try to help them save and not even focus on selling until it's like, hey, this, this is what you kind of got to do.

Yeah. Sometimes you just exhaust all the options and it's kind of the last thing and just getting over that mental hurdle of them having to walk away.

Might have to hire a therapist or something.

Yeah, really.

I mean, it could come down to that. It's, it's a terrible situation to be in.

No, it sucks, man.

You know, they're lucky to have you out there.

No.

Yeah.

Literally showing up at their door with a possible solution.

I really try to remember, like, you know, when, um, my parents were losing their house, it was like the darkest time in our life. And, um, I can, I can understand that for a lot of these homeowners, like So to the to the to the people, like the responses. One of the funniest stories I've had is me and Maggie were door knocking one time, and these people had like slip and slides. They were having a full on like barbecue get together. Dudes on lawn chairs drinking beers and stuff. And like it was the first one on our list, and we were like, "Should we do it?" We were like, "I don't know." It's the first, and like we were already kind of like pumped up. We're like, "We're not letting anything go." You know, like we're like, "Okay, let's try it. Let's try it." So then like we like walk up and stuff, and like. The dude's like drinking his beer. I was like, "Oh, do you know where you know the homeowner is?" And he's like, "Yeah, she's like in the back or something, you know." And then like she had come up and she's like, "Oh yeah, oh come on, come on over here." And like she like led us into the garage. She's like, "What the f are you guys thinking?" And like me and Maggie were just like, "It's so good." Yeah, yeah.

Just like all mom about it. Just like, "Come on over here. I'd like to talk to you." What are you thinking? Oh my god. That's great. Um, well, we have a part of the show where I've picked out a few videos and I would love to get your reaction on these.

Cool, cool.

All right, producer, pull them up.

First one is Wholesalers Stop Being Greedy. Slow load.

Let it load.

Hey, listen to one of the biggest mistakes that these new wholesalers make when they come into the market and when they get a property under contract, they tend to add $1 billion to the assignment. And stop being greedy. You're never going to get the deal done if you get one deal for $20,000 and you try to add $80,000 and slip it to somebody for $100,000 when it doesn't even make sense for the buyer to purchase it at $100,000. Stop being greedy. Put a decent amount on top of the property for your assignment fee so then you can get the deal ran through, so you can pass it over, so you can get rid of it. You want to get volume. in this business of wholesaling. Yeah, occasionally you're going to come across some deals where you're going to have a big spread, but it's hard to find those type of deals out there, especially when the markets may not validate buying a property that high.

Thoughts? I've heard, yeah. I mean, I've heard people be like, you put however much you want to make on top. And I'm like, I mean, I'd want to make an X amount of dollars, but I don't think that's real. I think Knowing that there's a lot of parties involved and then leaving meat on the bone for your buyer. So what I've seen is I've seen a lot of online calculators. And in that online, in one that I picked up, it had kind of a chart for ARVs. And based off of the ARV, they kind of had an assignment scale. So I try to stick to that. And I was like, it was fair. It made sense to me. And on this particular one that I closed, funny story about that one is like I had put in half the assignment that we ended up making and my mom was just like, no, put this amount. And I was like, I don't know, like if he'll go for it, like it seems like it's a lot. And like, but then it still with the numbers ran, he had enough spread on it. And then it was a no questions asked. Like he was like, I'll take it right away. And I was like, Cool.

There you go.

But then, yeah, definitely not putting a lot. I mean, you got to be realistic.

Yeah. I think it's just people that— I mean, you were working directly with the end buyer, so you kind of had an idea of where he needed to be. And I've had people reach out to us and straight up ask us, where do you need to be for this? And then I've done the same thing. You ask the buyer, where do you need to be from that? And then anything below that, that's my job to get the price reduction. You get the number you want, I get the number I want.

For sure.

From there.

Yeah, yeah. I think running your numbers is so key. Like, um, yeah, I'm trying to get my mom to be a little bit more comfortable with that. Like, she always has me do it, and I think in this business you need to know like the value of the stuff, like where, where it's at, what it's gonna sell for, and then, um, you know, running your numbers pretty hard and then leaving enough breathing room in there. But for sure, yeah.

I think people may just, you know, with the YouTube and everything, you get blinded by those like, I made $300K on an assignment, and they're like holding the check. And, you know, but he's right. It's like you're gonna get a home run every once in a while, but you just got to think of it just like base hits, singles, doubles, which are solid too. You know, like, yeah, you get enough of those, that's a good— it's a good income for sure. What do we got next? We got $10K through door knocking.

So this deal was a wholesale deal. I knocked this door, got to know her. She was behind, I think she said like $5,000 or $10,000, but it wasn't pre-foreclosure. Kept in touch with her, got her phone number. She actually reached out to me saying that the reinstatement was higher than what she thought. House was worth about $220,000. Got it under contract for $120,000, assigned it to an end buyer for $130,000. This couple ended up flipping the house, sent it to title, $10 earnest money, ended up making— it was a $10,000 assignment, so not the biggest assignment ever. Very quick, pretty easy deal. So this deal—

That's all it takes.

5 to 10 behind on their payments. What are you seeing out here in California? What are people behind?

Yeah, minimum, like not minimum, but on average, I'd say like $20K to $30K. I've seen, you know, the 6 figures. And then I've also seen like $6,000 on those HOA ones. But we try to go for the ones that are definitely like NOD, like $20,000, something like that, or above, you know, anything.

Yeah, because they're going to have a harder time making that, I guess, paying for the arrears.

Yeah, $2,000 to $5,000, that kind of also raised My ears a little because it was you know what may may I guess you know maybe in California you could borrow that from somebody some way somehow. I mean yeah I mean but like I was gonna say you know about two months ago I would have said two thousand was a lot of money too but right yeah like yeah I mean I don't I'm learning not to let any lead go really like if it's there and they're, you know, they have a pulse, we'll talk to them.

You know, there we go. I like that. It's a good filter to have. They're at least— they're alive. That's all we ask for. What do we got?

All right.

Our last video is real estate agents hating on wholesalers.

Do not ask real estate agents about wholesaling. They will try to discourage you right out of the business because of something they don't even know what they're talking about in most cases. If you go through my channel, you will know more about real estate investing. You're going to know more than 95% of the agents out there. Don't ask them about real estate investing. You're going to know more than them. Do not ask them.

What do you think about that?

Yeah, I mean, he's pretty, uh, spot on with that. And even like, uh, my own like friends and family and everybody around me was like, why don't you just go get your real estate license? I was like, I think there's something here, you know, like seeing what everybody does and even on the creative side and all of that. And I see these deals being done and then I see what the real estate agents are doing. Like, it's like, you know, I could see why they're hating. Like, I completely understand that. And they have their guidelines and they have to follow that and, you know, respect their industry the way that they have been educated about it. Like, I think that that's Fine and fair, but yeah, they I think they don't like what we're doing. I mean, when I was trying out of state in Missouri, agents were the hardest hurdle to get through. Like they just don't want to deal with anybody from California, let alone a wholesaler.

So what are they afraid of?

I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, we could all get along for sure. You know, my mom's working with a lot of agents. It's also I think that's just a different song and a dance. Like They, they, I don't know, they have their vision of how they see the industry is. And I think if you want to work with them, you just kind of have to respect it. That's their house, you know? So just—

Yeah. Yeah.

It was funny. We went to go, there was like a Friday where we went to go look at 2 properties in Long Beach. These are from wholesalers slash agents. I think everyone's just doing everything right now. So we show up to this like 2/1 in Long Beach and like the worst part of Long Beach. And this girl is like, the agent guy shows up and then he's bringing us. And then I thought it was his deal, but then he's bringing us to this other girl's.

Oh, crazy.

Yeah. Like deal. So then they're all talking and like, he's dressed up and she's like in high heels and we're going into like the worst house. That's crazy.

Long Beach.

She was in like designer heels, had a designer bag.

I was like, she's like, the kitchen's over here. And like, we're like, girl, just, yeah, we don't need the tour.

We got it.

Yeah.

We're, we're, it's not one of those.

We're just going to be in and out and we can tell you how much it is. But it's just funny, their mentality of they can't get out of that. It's like sunset.

Yeah. It's their programming. I think it works for their end buyer. If they're working in retail and that's what it takes. But for sure, that's what I love about wholesaling is everyone's a little bit more of a free thinker and everyone's just trying to make it happen. Not that they— the real estate industry guidelines and using those NAR forms. Like, I think like the funniest is when they— or agents are always complaining that you're not using the NAR form. I'm like, dude, people are like writing these things on napkins. Like, come on. Like, I don't know if it's like, you know.

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, you know, it's true. You only need 3 things for a contract: the terms, the date, and the signature.

That's it.

And you can turn that into a to escrow and they're like, eh, it's fine. Yeah, yeah, make it go through. But yeah, they have their 45-page thing and they got—

It's crazy.

I mean, they, they— it's a lot that they get beaten over the head with. Like, if you don't tick one box, you're gonna get fined, you're gonna get sued, you're gonna, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I get where they're coming from.

I mean, their, their regulation industry is not going to get their funding if they don't have people to check the boxes and this and that, you know? So it's like, all right. I mean, I respect it all. I think you just have to know what avenue you're going down and how to grease the wheels, I guess, properly, you know? Just—

Amen. Amen to that, dude. Amen to that. So what do we got coming up on the horizon for Cam? What's the future looking like?

Yeah, really tightening down my CRM and outreach process. I think one thing that we did not do properly is have a follow-up process. We were just building our lists week by week. Even though I have a CRM set up, I have a dialer set up, it's just all over the place. And I think I was at the point where I wanted to just get the spaghetti to stick on the wall that I just like was like, okay, let's just hit these leads. Let's just get them. And then, you know, go back to figuring out our process. So. Kind of what we were discussing earlier, you know, you in integrating like a canvassing type software into my platform where I can visualize, hey, these are the leads in my area that I need to follow up on, you know, touch for the first time, just have a better way to visualize my leads and, you know, stay on top of them. That's really it. Just make it do the business more professionally, not Like I was considered, I would consider myself an amateur, you know, just figuring it out. Now I've seen people's processes and just want to systemize it a little bit more. And yeah, that's, I'm really excited about that. Like I want, I want my next deal this quarter. That's, that's really it. And then I want to consistently do one a quarter to where then I can do them one a month.

But there you go.

It's kind of where I'm at right now.

Love it. Yeah. You know, in real estate, it's, it's a long game. So You got plenty of time. How can people reach out to you if they want to partner with you, if they've got leads, if they need help with the pre-foreclosure process?

For sure.

Yeah, I think maybe Instagram's the best place right now. It's cam_the_investor. I have a website also called solvingforeclosure.com. I want to eventually build that out into a brand as well. I have some information about how homeowners can save their homes, but Need to develop that a little bit more. But yeah, so Instagram, email info@solvingforeclosure.com. And yeah.

Amazing. Thank you so much, man. I appreciate you coming here, dropping some knowledge. We're going to be back here next Thursday. Make sure to share this podcast with anybody that has an interest in pre-foreclosures or wholesaler or wholesaling or just real estate investing in general. And then we have that meetup coming up February 24th. So I want to see everybody there. We're talking about a big product, A big problem in California, the insurance crisis, and Aaron's gonna solve it for us. So, okay, thank you guys so much. See you next week.

Thank you. See ya.

Thank you.

If you want some more advice on real estate investing, reach out to us one-on-one.