13 Badass Women Share 13 Badass Tactics for International Women’s Day

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Float Shark podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear.

Welcome.

What's happening? It's a Monday.

It's a Monday. We don't normally release podcasts on Mondays.

Nah, I'm usually sleeping all day on Mondays.

Yeah. And today is March 8, which is a fabulous day. It's a super significant day in that it's International Women's Day.

That it is.

It also falls on Joe's birthday, but it does.

But that's not the point. That's not why we're here podcasting. We're here for the ladies who have graced the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, especially in 2020.

Yes.

Little context. We did a whole, you know, top 10 in 2020 that was voted on by you, the listeners. Not a single male. Sorry, not a single woman made it onto that list. So we had some. We had some help from our friends.

Yeah. Well, in our defense.

Right.

We did the top 10 podcast list, but it was basically voted on by listeners. So we actually put out a survey and said, what were your favorite episodes of 2020? And the top 10 all turned out to be men. And we weren't necessarily happy with that. So we wanted to make sure we did a special episode that featured the amazing badass women that came on the show last year.

What better day to do it than on International Women's Day? So what we're gonna do is highlight the 13 women who basically we think are just rock stars. And we want to give these five minute clips from them. So they're not. It's not going to be a massive episode. Might be a little longer than normal, but they're five minutes per person. So we're going to quickly list the names here. So it's not a huge intro. And then as you get into the episode, our producer Jacob is actually setting up that clip so you're not lost as you're going through this, you're going to get a lot. Maybe Matt, tell them about the website and how you can dig in a little deeper.

Yeah. So this episode's a little bit different than normal. Not only on the fact that it's coming out on a Monday, but it's also sort of outside of our normal system. So there's not going to be like a specific downloadable notes, flowchart notes, like we normally do with our podcast episodes. Instead, if you go over to evergreenprofits.com, you can find the show notes page for this episode. And not only are you going to be able to listen to the audio you're listening to now, but there's also.

You're also going to find additional gold nuggets that weren't mentioned on this episode.

Yeah. So there's a lot there. We're not going to give you the. The action guides for this one, but you can find them in the membership if you're a member. But go over to evergreen profits.com and find this episode. Look for this one. I don't know what the title is, but whatever episode this was, the same title should be over there. All right, let's crack into the names of who we have with us today.

Yes.

So I'll start. Number one, Sue Rice, amazing copywriter. She's become a good buddy of ours, has helped us so much. She is amazing at stories, copywriting, everything. I mean, sue is the go to. She's absolutely amazing.

And then we've got Molly Mahoney, who's got a clip on this episode and everything. Facebook, social media, live streaming. She is our go to for that. Like, literally, if we're thinking about doing a live stream or something, we. We go and ask Molly for her advice. Hands down, every time.

Dang. Right. All right, third up we have Lisa Cherney. And she. I love her brand. It's gfr. That means get fucking Real. And that's basically what she does. She got me out of my show when I was on her show. We had a great time on our podcast. So you're going to like Lisa.

Yes. And then next we have Sarah Christiansen, which we had an amazing episode with her all about Cancel Culture, because she had a really unfortunate experience, but now she's back on her feet and she's running amazing mastermind groups. And you're going to hear some really cool tips from her as well.

Dang. Right. Fifth up we have Ilana Wexler, and she is a paid ad ninja. The way that she laid it all out is just so simple, but also it's complex, but it's simple. So she's amazing. If you want to get some paid media buying education, Ilana's the one. So she's fifth up for sure.

And then we've got Susie Moore, who wrote the book Stop Checking youg Likes, which is a really, really great book on mindset and, you know, also social media and sort of some of the harms of social media. And you're gonna hear some really cool advice from her as well.

Definitely. All right, number seven is the catalyst for this episode. We Gotta give her a lot of love. So this is Lisa Byer. She just. I mean, you gotta check out everything she's doing in the PR world. PR Secrets is her thing. She has multiple podcasts, and she's just amazing. She's the one that told us to do this episode. And thank you very much, Lisa. She's gonna give you some stuff about branding and whatnot. And, I mean, she's just amazing. So go check her out. Lisa Byer.

Yes. And then next up, we have Felicia Pagis. And Felicia, she's really like a systems ninja when it comes to, like, webinars and dialing in all the tech stuff. It feels like we have a lot of guys come on and talk about that kind of topic. But Felice is probably better than most of them.

She's freaking awesome. And actually, got to give her some credit. She's been working with Rich Sheffrin, actually on some stuff that we mentioned in an episode with Rich shepherd, and that's probably not out yet. It's definitely not out yet. So you'll hear the tie. In number nine, Erin File. She is so damn cool. So she has a company called Mind Fix, and that's exactly what she's teaching here. She's walked us through this stuff. I mean, she has literally cleared out patterns that were not serving us very quickly. And Aaron File, she just has a unique way on doing that. So she's going to give you a little bit of tips in this one here.

Yes. And then we've got Gabby Bernstein. We've got a clip from her. And she was an amazing episode. And she's going to be talking about the Choose Again method. And she had some amazing sort of tactical things in the mindset world. Right. Like, for me, I'm typically more of the tactical person. You typically lean more on the mindset. Philosophical stuff. Gabby Bernstein was just like an amazing blend of the two. She put tactics to the mindset.

She did. That's a good way to put it. All right, so number 11, we have Kim Kraus. Schwalm, and she another copywriter. Absolutely amazing copywriter. And in this one, she really honed in on hiring the best copywriters, like the do's and don'ts. And she actually helped us as well with Pod Hackers. So it was like we're literally going to the best of the best. And it happened to be 2 on this list. Yes. So, Kim, you definitely don't want to miss her. She's the 11th on this list.

And then number 12, we have Laura Gale, the self Publishing book master. And she's going to give you some advice on what most people miss when they're publishing a book. And, you know, you're gonna learn quite a bit from this one.

She.

Yeah, she has a unique way on doing all that, too. So last but not least of the baker's dozen that we have here is Melanie Benson. I feel like she's just been crossing our paths a lot ever since we've had her on the show. Yeah, she's talking a lot about how to pick the right shows, podcast guesting. She has a whole system and approach on doing that. She's amazing as well. I mean, they're all amazing. I keep saying that, but that's why they're here. So Melanie Benson is rounding up the lineup here. Amazing people.

We don't have people on our show that are amazing.

That is true. I keep saying amazing. I got to find another word.

All the people we've ever had on the show that aren't amazing, we cut those episodes and never aired them.

That's true. So that's, like, rarely ever happened, though.

It's happened twice to my knowledge.

Okay. Yeah, you didn't want to hear them. Anyway.

Moving on.

All right, so both of those were men. Just so you know. They were.

Very good point. So we'll have a little outro at the end of this, just with our thoughts about other amazing women in our lives. But you know what, go celebrate some women today. Go give them some love. Go tell them something you appreciate about them. And we will definitely hope that in our next top 10, we're going to have some women showing up. Yes. So enjoy the episode. We'll see you at the end of this thing. Hey, guys. Jacob from the Hustle and Flowchart team here. The first woman we'd like to Highlight.

From our 2020 interview season is Sue Rice from episode 230. Sue is a longtime marketing strategist, professional.

Copywriter, and international communications expert.

Today, she shares with us the power.

Of keeping a story library to pull from when you need a story in your email marketing.

I think there are certain key writing assets that people have that drive the most sales. And at the top of that list, whilst it's often forgotten, are emails. In my opinion, it's where the action happens. You talk to any successful marketer and they will all tell you the same thing. From Perry Belcher to Justin Brook to James Schramko to just know that the bulk of their. At least half of their revenue is coming from email. So if, if you know, I mean, theoretically, at least 30% of your revenue should be coming from email. But people don't. People. It's like they're leaving money on the table because they don't really know how to do it. And you can see. Just open up your inbox and you can see how badly it's. How bad. It's bad.

Yeah, it's getting bad.

It's really bad. But, you know, and so. But what is sort of ironic is it's so crowded and everyone's yelling and everyone's shouting and it's so easy to stand out. It's the biggest paradox of what's happening right now because everyone's using the same templates and the same funnels and the same boxes and the same. And all you have to do is step slightly to the left or to the right and do something slightly different. And, I mean, I just did a product launch for someone. You know, we sent out 30 emails and we. All the way through, we were getting 40 to 50% open rates.

That's awesome.

He made. Yeah, all the way through. You know, that's okay. The first couple. Sure. But it's because they were. They were. They were dressed up. They were framed in these beautiful metaphoric stories that were pertinent to the people I was talking to. Right. So not just any story, but they were actually something that they could relate to. Yeah, I mean, you know, like, you know, you know, there's a lot of things that we watch every day we listen in the news that you can. You can grab stories about the California fires or about. And you can, and you can. Any story out there can be made to have a lesson for your business and the pain points that you address and the products that you. And services that you offer.

Just with a little extra. It's a little extra thinking that you can't find it in a template, unfortunately.

So you actually just reminded me, because I believe, unless I'm just making this up, when you and I talked, you know, a couple months ago, you said you save a ton of stories that just connect and then you kind of store them away and you use them in the exact same way that you're talking about right now for client.

Yeah, I have a story library.

Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, I collect these. I've been collecting them for years. And I use. I mean, I want to give credit where credit's due because I learned how to do this. He didn't talk about it exactly. It's the same way, but I learned how to do this years ago. I went to a sort of a mini conference or workshop that was given by Matt Fury. Do you know him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a genius. He's a really interesting guy. And he basically, you know, he had this formula where you would, you know, you'd start off an email, you tell a story, you'd have a lesson of the story, and then you connect it up with your product and service. And so that's when all this began. I started doing. And now I've kind of developed it into my own system. But, you know, that is where it's, you know, it took me a while also to figure. Cause it sounds so simple. It took me a while to figure out how genius it really was.

Right.

Because. But if you look at your inbox, no. 1, you know, there are a few people doing that, but people talk about storytelling. They're always talking about, talking about their brand. It's like, no, that's. Yeah, that's one story maybe, but it's boring. Yes. Talk about what people really care about. Let's talk about, you know, stuff that's happening and, you know, happening in the news. What's happening right now. And let's, let's, let's lean into our prospects world because what we're all doing is trying to get them to lean into our world. This is where the dots connect backwards to what I was trying to do with the Legos and Nikes of the world. Let's lean into their world. Let's listen to what. Let's talk. You know, people talk about the conversation in their mind, but they're talking about the conversation in their mind about their products. No, I'm talking about their conversation in general.

Molly Mahoney from the Prepared Performer joins us next. Listen up and hear how to make.

A quesadilla of awesome and how Brussels.

Sprouts can make your Facebook engagement blow up.

If you'd like to hear Molly's full interview, be sure to check out episode 246. So do you know what the quesadilla of awesome is?

I bet we're gonna find out. It sounds amazing.

I'm very hungry already.

Perfect. Because I will tell you also that I did. I was on Scott Carson's podcast recently and they just put show notes out and it said case idea, like so. Because it transcribed it, which I thought was really funny.

So, Scott, Em, you're gonna get a little. You're gonna get a quesadilla.

I messaged him, I was like, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. But so just to be clear, a quesadilla is two pieces of tortilla with chees at all. We eat them all the time here in California. So the case study of awesome is basically, it's an exercise that I'll walk you through on how to really tap into your unique sense of awesome. And the name comes from the fact that everyone has something that makes them uniquely awesome, even if it's just that you make an amazing quesadilla. So I can't see you, but can you take your hands and hold them as if you're holding a giant, like with your fingertips together, as if you're holding a giant hollow ball in the air?

Yes.

Okay. Inside. And if you're listening to this, obviously, if you're listening, you're here. So while you're listening to this, if.

You'Re driving, please don't do this.

Oh, thank you. Don't do it if you're driving. Good point. But imagine that you're doing this. And so you're going to hold this ball, and inside this ball, you're going to put everything that is amazing about your business, all the transformation, the benefits that you provide, all of the goodness that you share inside that ball. You got it in there?

My ball's still empty.

I need it. I need a few more hours. It's going to take a while. Yeah, it is still quick.

Okay, now you're going to take it and you're going to throw it up into the air.

And now all of the awesome of your business is floating above us like Mikey TV and Willy Wonka.

Yep.

And what are you left with?

Awesomeness. Everywhere.

You.

You're left with you.

Oh, yeah, I'm awesome.

Michael Stelzer was like salsa. I don't.

Cheese on my face.

I was hungry. It didn't go on my stomach.

You're left with you, which is the place where most people then get freaked out. Whether it's about coming on a podcast, on a Facebook live and networking event, a sales conversation. This is the. You know, building a business is the best form of self help, like self actualization.

Yeah, it's true.

So you're going to make a list of 20 things that make you a uniquely awesome human being. And this is especially good for you guys because you're both in it together. So to make your own list, then you'll have 20 or 40 things in your case, a of awesome. So when it comes to making this list, people usually get stuck. So I have an acronym on what to put in this list. It's the word save, it is spelled with five letters, not four, because I can't spell. And I want to make sure everyone knows I can't spell so they don't freak out about it later. It's S, A, A, V, E. So real quick that the key points are your skill sets, the things that you're naturally gifted at. You've always been gifted at your appearance. Because if you don't like the way that you look and then you go do a Facebook live and you're staring back at your own face, you're going to become a weirdo. So you've got to start to love the way that you look. So things you love about your appearance, your activities that you love. So knitting, crocheting, hiking, cooking, whatever it is, the V is for your values. And the more that you celebrate your values, the more clearly you'll attract those people who celebrate those values. And the final one, the E is for things you like to eat.

About time. A quesadilla wrapped up with something.

And I have a trick, actually that is going to blow your mind that I would love you both to do right now, if it's possible. Okay, can you take out your phones or whatever's near you and go to your personal Facebook account?

Yes.

Let me see. Do I still have Facebook installed on my phone?

Oh, don't be like that, Matt. You're not that good. You're not that self disciplined.

I did actually delete it for a little while on Perry Marshall's advice. Lasted a couple months. Okay.

Okay. So on your personal page, you're gonna post this five words, which are Brussels sprouts, yes or no?

Okay, both of us are posting it separately.

Yep, you're both gonna. And then it'll be funny because people who know you will know that you're both with me because it's what I make people do.

Post Brussels sprouts. Yes or no.

And I am telling you, punctuation in.

There, a question mark, or you can do a comma if you want, whatever. Colon. Brussels sprouts. Colon. Yes or no. However you wanna do it. Doesn't matter.

Okay. Okay.

And just post it. And what's going to happen is your Facebook account is going to blow up of human beings commenting because people either love them or they absolutely hate them. And so what you do from there is that kickstarts the algorithm on your personal page. From there you can go start connecting with people, having actual human conversations. Then let's say after you've had these human conversations, you post something about how your newest Podcast is up and you're going to share it. Would you like access to it? The people that you've then been building the relationships with will be more likely to see your business stuff.

I dig it. Are you ready to get fucking real? Because Lisa Cherny is. Our next clip from episode 251. Hear Lisa get real with the guys on how she struggled coming on the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, but used her.

GFR commandments to help her overcome those feelings. The GFR commandments are the roadmap for getting real. And this isn't light, airy, fairy shit. This is like, okay, let's. If you're up for it and you believe that your work is part of your personal evolution and that like doing your work depends on you getting real and getting out of your own way, I feel like, you know, that's what this conversation can be about. That's what my show, the Get Fucking Real show, is about. It's really acknowledging that there is struggle and we are at war with ourselves sometimes and we aren't telling the truth sometimes to ourselves. And all of that, when confronted, that's when we can, quote, unquote, get real and be ourselves in our marketing. Which again is something that people, people, they say authentics. Like, what the fuck does authentic mean? You have to figure that out. Who, who am I really? And it's so interesting, you know, we're talking about parenting before we got started. Like my 14 year old, I, I could see on a day to day basis where I could shut her light down and I could have her forget who she is and what she likes and what she doesn like and what her personality is and all that so easily. And this is what we do in business. And this is my soapbox, which everybody should have one. I actually teach it because I think people water it down. But this is my soapbox. We're on it.

Yeah, yeah, that's okay.

So, you know, I know, I know I could speak for myself and I know Joe's probably very similar in some respects, but you know, we try our hardest to kind of be the same person on the podcast, on stage when we go on other people's podcasts. When you meet us at networking events, we try, you know, we're trying to just be consistent and let the normal just us flow out. But it's not always easy. Right? Like, I just yesterday I was actually being interviewed on another podcast, which is a very, very large podcast, and going on it, I knew, okay, this show is gonna be heard by like a million People. And I was kind of freaking out knowing that this show was going out to a large audience. And I don't think the person that came out on that show is necessarily the same person that comes out on this show. And I'm not quite sure how to, like, bridge that. I mean, it's close. I think over the years, I've done a lot of work, and it's gotten closer and closer and closer to, like, you're getting the same person no matter what. But there is still a little bit of a gap from me. The me that you see on stage, the me that's on this podcast, the me that goes on other large podcasts, you know, or if I go on a small podcast, it's a different person than if I'm going on a very large podcast. So I'm trying to figure out, like, you know, what are some. What are some ways to kind of help bridge that gap and, you know, help you kind of be that consistent personality throughout?

What do you think? Can you articulate what you think the difference was in the mat that was on the show yesterday and the Matt that's sitting here now?

I would say yesterday there was, you know, going into it, there was a little bit more anxiety, just kind of knowing that this was going out to a very, very large audience, which is kind of funny because our show goes out to a pretty large audience, and I don't really think twice about it. But when I'm going out to somebody else's audience, there's a little bit of anxiety that sort of leads that for me. So I don't know. It's interesting.

What did you feel that the audience might think about you, that you weren't quite sure you wanted them to think?

I don't know. Probably. I mean, I definitely know I struggle with imposter syndrome. Like, probably.

Okay, so you thought they might find you out? You thought they might find you out?

Yeah, sort of. I mean, I know. I know what I'm talking about, but a lot of times I don't feel like what I'm talking about has as much value as other people feel that what I'm talking about has value. So a lot of times I'll go into these conversations going in my mind, oh, this is just basic shit. Like, they already know all this stuff, right? But while I'm on the show, they're acting, you know, very impressed by what I'm talking about. But there's some uncertainty in my head around, is this really that valuable to this audience I'm talking to that's awesome.

That you can articulate that and connect with that. And here's. You're gonna love this because I had a similar thing coming on this show.

Oh, wow.

It's gonna make you laugh, right? Cause you're like, it's just me, Matt and Joel. Who cares, right? And now I feel fine. But I had created a story in my mind, right? This is what we do. That, like, I've been on, you know, I don't know, 50 podcasts in just the last six months. And it's like, well, this one, I don't know. It's Matt and Joe, and they just had that XYZ person on. And I was looking at your lineup, and I'm like, it's been. And I'm like a chick that, you know. You know, whatever. It's like I created the story that for some reason, this one was different. For some reason, my usual Lisa Cherniness wouldn't be enough or whatever. And that's what you did. You know, it's like you created a story like, well, that this. Well, this show is different with this particular and this audience. And, you know, and it's. It's. And this is. This is the. I just love. I love that we're talking about this because, like, when I look at the GFR commandments, when, like, commandment number 11 says, embrace. You're not the same person you were when you made those mistakes. And they will not repeat, right? And the confession question. So each of the GFR commandments, it doesn't just have a commandment because I'm a trainer and coach, like, I have to get inside your head a little bit. It says, what past mistakes are causing me self doubt now. It's like, oh, oh, I remember when I was on that stage, like, 20 years ago, and I didn't. I didn't know the answer to that question or like, shit just gets in our head and we let it sort of fester. And so, you know, you know, if we had more time and we could totally do this offline, it'd just be fun to be like, okay, well, where. Where does that stuff come from? And I'm not talking about psychotherapy. Like, it doesn't need to be that deep, y'. All. It's just like. It's just in your life of your business.

Next up is Sarah Christensen.

Sarah is sharing with us the power.

Of white label masterminds and what things we can look for in our own businesses to bring in outside help.

If you want to hear Sarah's full.

Interview, be sure to listen to episode 253.

So I ran mastermind groups for about seven years as a part time thing and really it was just a labor of love. I loved it so much. I charged for them but it wasn't my main thing. And then about three years ago I put my all into that business. So I sold the assets of the other business that I was working on, focused on kick ass masterminds and was really focusing on a couple different lines of business. So one line of business is directly creating mastermind groups for small business owners. Another is through a channel. So we have a white label mastermind program that we offer to other businesses and brands so they can have a mastermind under and under their business name. But we, we run them and then we also do corporate mastermind groups. So we have a large sales organ that we work with. They want their people to be more sharing of what's working but in non competitive markets. So we run mastermind groups for them. So we really were 100% focused on masterminds but in different kinds of ways.

I actually want to stick here for a second with the white label mastermind concept because I really love that concept. But I'm curious how you actually fulfill on that because I would imagine.

So is it a very specific type of mastermind? Is it only masterminds for entrepreneurs or do you do white label kind of like more niche down masterminds? Like for instance if Joe and I wanted to start like a podcast Mastermind.

Yep. No, we do anything and everything. So we work with a self help author and she has people that want, they wanted that high touch from her. She just wasn't want, she wasn't willing to do all the logistics herself. So we do like life groups for her people and each one of them we design from scratch. So we go through a product design design phase to really decide what are you looking to accomplish? What do your people need? How much involvement does your organization want to have? But we generally design the mastermind for every single one that we do. I mean we have a menu that we go through. Like are these some of the features that you want? Again, how much involvement do you want? But we design those from scratch and they're pretty cool because it allows, it allows the company or the brand or the person that wants to have a mastermind to be able to do that and only show up with the things that they're really good at. And then we handle all the details, all the logistics, all the behind the scenes so that they can show up as their Best, like the self help author. She shows up twice a month for an hour. She does a Q and A session and she does like a masterclass. And for her it's awesome because she can connect with her people and, and, but she doesn't again, have to run any of the logistics. And for her people, it's awesome because they feel like they're in her inner circle because they're in her life groups.

That's interesting. We're piquing our interest. Yeah.

We may be like kind of in your ideal client group for something like that.

I just love the model because like, you, you actually said it right. You nailed on the head when it's like, yeah, the people who own it are, you know, who bring the people to the mastermind. You know, they just, they just show up and do what they're really good at. And that's where, you know, we talked about refocusing in our business. That's pretty much what we're doing. It's like figuring out where do we just put our efforts best and, you know, work with folks like yourself or other things.

Yeah, well, we say like our zone of genius, Right? Like for us, our zone of genius is kind of the networking, the podcasting, the running paid ads, the creating content. That's where really where we live, where we're not really good is we're not selling. We're not great at selling things like high ticket offers. We're not good at, you know, organizing all the logistics around masterminds and meetings. Although we've, we've tried to do that kind of stuff. We've always sort of fallen off of, of keeping up with it, and it's.

Just not our thing.

It just was never our thing. It was never really our zone of genius. So I can actually see that being something super valuable for, you know, us and maybe putting together like a mastermind for listeners of the podcast kind of thing. So who knows? Something we could talk about offline? Sure.

Absolutely. Well, and I also think that thinking about your services as white label is something that everybody can do. Like, is there a way that you can offer what you do to other businesses and other brands for them to sell it and have it be underneath their, you know, their moniker, underneath their brand. But you're the machine behind the scenes. I think there's so much opportunity in white labeling and so much opportunity in having channel partners like that.

I just heard Brene Brown on the Tim Ferriss podcast, and one of the things that she said was with her and her team, they really realized that they weren't good distributors of her teaching and of her work. And instead of growing this giant team to distribute the work, they just decided that they were going to partner with people who were really good at distribution. So it's kind of the same thing. But I would challenge every listener to think about is your business and what you offer. Something that can be white labeled. Somebody else can sell your product under their business name and their brand.

That's very smart. I think that's the way to grow a business and not do the stuff that you just aren't good at or you hate doing. Ilana Wexler, founder of Green Arrow Digital, joins us next to share her paid ad puzzle technique and how to make the different pieces of your marketing puzzle work together.

If you want to become an authority in both Google and Facebook advertising, I'd.

Highly recommend listening to Alana's full interview on episode 263.

My daughter came to me and she said to me, you know, mummy, can we do a puzzle? Right? And I said, yeah, sure. So she hands me a bag of puzzle pieces, right? And I said, okay, cool. Where is the picture of this puzzle? And she says, I don't have the picture.

This is going to be an interesting exercise. We're going to do a puzzle without knowing what the picture looks like. Chances are it's going to be something to do with frozen, but it's beside the point.

So I thought, hang on a minute, let's not panic. What would be if I did have the picture, what would be the way that I. Every time when I start a puzzle, what's always the way that we start with it? And we always start with the corners, right? Exactly. And the reason we start with the corners is because the corners are going to help us determine what's the next piece that is adjoining that corner piece. And from those two pieces, then you can sort of start finding out and build out the next piece and the next piece. So our corners are like kind of the guiding lights, right, to fulfilling this whole puzzle. And then I thought, this is actually like the same process that I go through when I either help people with their online ads with training or in my agency or whatever, right. What I always do for any client is we start with retargeting, right? And we think of the puzzle in the four corners, right? In the one corner retargeting would be Google search retargeting. In the other corner would be Google display retargeting. Third corner would be YouTube retargeting. And the fourth one would be Retargeting on social. And so these are your four corners of your paid traffic puzzle. Okay. And the reason they're the corners is because I believe, and maybe I'm going to be a little controversial here, if you can't find a way to make retargeting profitable in your business, then the answer is not more traffic. The answer is to change your offer because clearly your offer is not resonating with your audience.

And so therefore, like, your corners are so critical to get right. Because then if you don't have can't get that to work, you literally don't have a puzzle.

Okay?

And then once you can get retargeting working those retargeting data, and we can go through this in a bit, will reveal what is the next piece in your puzzle. So in the bag of pieces like my daughter of came to me, are all the targeting metrics that you can do. It's, you know, it's Google search, it's targeting competitors on Facebook, it's YouTube keyword targeting, whatever it is. And starting out, you don't really know if you're going to use every piece in that puzzle and you don't have to. And as I said, the corners will reveal what pieces you should test in your puzzle next. And it may or may not work. So starting out your entire paid traffic puzzle will actually just be four corners. So four quadrants of your puzzle. So that is the entire puzzle. And then as you guys say, it's $5 a day. And then if you do it anymore, then the frequency gets too high and what's happened is you've maxed out on your audience, right? And so you need to start finding a way to fill your retargeting list with more people, right, by cold traffic. So we spread out the puzzle and to allow for purchasing traffic in either one of those four quadrants. So your entire first quadrant will be your search retargeting. As I said, the other quadrant is display YouTube and Instagram. And then as I said, we're going to spread out those pieces and start exploring cold traffic, right? So the first. One of the first things I like to do is we start with Google search because there's so much intent there. If we can't convert cold traffic with search, even if it's not profitable, it's just trying to find out which are our profitable keywords, then I believe there's a problem with our website or landing page. You're effectively sliding your business card under the nose of someone at literally the instant that they have Searched whatever it is you sell, be it a product or service. If we can't convert those people, I think we have a problem.

Even if the cost per click is too high, it's a great way to test if your website converts because it's critical, right?

Yep.

So we will start with retargeting what's called top of funnel keywords. So as you know, as I explained my history, like I started off as a Google Ad agency and I've been trained as a search marketer. And so I would never dream of bidding on a single keyword. Like I would never dream of it. Right. It can mean anything. Right. We all know top of funnel single keywords have huge volume of people searching for it because of the variety of intent that comes with that. However, if I do that only for retargeting people, I know they're interested in my product or service because they've come to my website and then after they leave, I bid on a top of funnel keyword. I am opening the door to more search volume than I would otherwise would be. And it's a safe way of doing that. So I've done this actually with a mortgage client, Right. Where it's a competitive space and they're in California. Right. So it is war out there. Right. So we don't want to bid against like these big, big banks with seriously deep pockets. Although maybe not now in the current climate.

Pockets are getting shallower, shallower and shallower.

Right. But we will will with retargeting, you know, and then I can delve deep into the search term report to see actually what's the language that these people are using. Right. And so that's the next piece of the puzzle.

On episode 271, Susie Moore joined us.

To talk about her recently released book.

Stop Checking youg Likes and share her belief flip formula.

One process I have is called like the belief like flip formula, which is if you have some an area of your life that you're not happy with. Right. Whatever, like whatever it may be, is there a relationship, money, like really anything you have? We in traditional psychology we have the cause and effect model, right. Which is, for example, I'll just use something old school, like my parents were divorced and it was really ugly, which is why I can't, you know, get married or find that or trust somebody. So the cause and effect is this happened. And so then this is true now. Right. So the cause was the bad divorce. The effect is an unhappy or an unhappy single person. Right. And what I love to do is flip It. Right. Because often the effect. Right. That it's having means that we don't have to do anything. Right. It means that we don't have to take courage, we don't have to do any work. We can stay kind of safe and small. And what feels protected ironically is not at all. Right.

Yeah.

But instead, okay, so the way I would flip it is saying, you know, okay, maybe being with somebody requires courage and some vulnerability, and that's scary. So let's blame your parents.

Right. When you flip your cause and effect model, you have no excuses, and it takes some. Does take courage to do this work. But what then isn't available? Like what you become this unstoppable person because you have. Even a really good excuse is still an excuse, no matter how justified it sounds, how much sympathy you get for it, it doesn't mean anything. And so when you can lose the beliefs, the causes in your life that you think are holding you back, then. And I tell you, I mean, it's. You can see changes really quickly. That.

Actually I like that a lot because, yeah, a lot of us will get just so stuck in the cause. Like, this thing did it to me. I'm a. You know, like, obviously you're not telling yourself, like, I'm a victim, but that's pretty much what it is, it seems like. So, so, yeah, you flip it to the effect. So it's like an actionable thing. It seems like, yes.

And it's like, well, okay, just because if you think of the cause and effect model were true, that would then have to mean that every. Everyone whose parents had a bad divorce course couldn't have a happy marriage.

That's right.

That would have to be true for absolutely everybody. And I'm yet to find a single example where a cause creates an effect. You know, we're so in control. It's. I mean, even in, you know, locked indoors at the moment to be safe. Like, I. I feel like I have complete control over my first of all, my mind, of course. But even, you know, the small corner of the world that I touch, my apartment in Miami, like, I have complete power over what happens here. And I'm creating like YouTube content, doing all that boring stuff, like the stuff that we never really want to do with our business. Updating websites, looking at past data for information on my best emails. But I mean, I feel like I'm in a really good kind of blessed position.

I mean, would you say that most people are, but they just don't realize it?

Yes. Right. But sometimes that's also A reason to then take a break. And that's fine. It's healthy to take a break if you to want. But I would acknowledge it that way and say, you know what? I love myself enough to give myself a break versus I'm stuck indoors and I can't do anything.

Yeah. And again, yeah, it goes back to that whole cause and effective. But the effecting cause. Yeah.

Because everyone's stuck at home. We're all in the same position. So, like, what's the effect then? That it's having, like, everyone ice. From what I see people having very different experiences.

Yeah. No, that's. I mean, it's so true, because that's. I know. Matt and I, we've taken this as, like, a massive opportunity for not only the business I know, at least on my side personally as well, to. It's a lot of. I mean, for me, it is actually a lot more inner work is what I've been working through, like breathing techniques and all this journaling and all that stuff. Yeah. But then in the business, like, we're making it stronger than ever now, even with more pivots, adjustments. But yeah, it's like, if you can. I feel like right now is just a perfect time to really harness everything you feel like is like your leaky bucket. We all have some leaks in there. It's like, all right, how can we plug these up right now?

Yes, exactly. And I'm doing that. And then I'm also enjoying happy hour whenever I feel like it, every day.

There you go.

So you gotta live your life.

Maybe get some wine or something.

Absolutely. I mean, what time is it? 1:28. Not far off.

I guess I should have Bailey's in my coffee. It's only 10:30 here. Why not? Makes podcast day fun. I still do have a Little Bailey's left.

10:30 in the morning. We're already drinking.

Let's do it.

This is lockdown protocol.

Judge me all you want.

There are no rules. You know what? There are no rules in quarantine, and there are no rules in life. Like, when you think about it, like, what rules? Okay, the only rule is, like, treat your neighbor how you'd like to be treated, right? Like, as you treat yourself. That is the only rule. Everything else is really up to us.

Following up Suzy, we have Lisa Byer, founder of the Byer Group and author of PR Secrets. In this clip, Lisa shares her secrets.

For finding your brand's audience. Be sure to check out her full interview on episode 277.

If you liked what you heard and.

Want some more PR tips?

If somebody is trying to sort of start to build their online brand, where do you think is the best place to start? Like maybe one specific social media platform or should they sort of go wide on all the social media platforms? How does somebody start going down the road of building their brand online?

That's a great question. So I'm looking at it, remember, through the eyes of a public relations professional and combining social and. And also the optimization part. So it really depends, number one, on where your audience is. And if your audience is on Instagram, then put 85% of your efforts into Instagram and then make sure you have some sort of a presence on the rest of the channels that matter.

How would you know? So how do you determine which platform your audience might be on?

I mean, a lot of times, I mean, you have to develop your Personas, number one, and that's. We could do a whole talk on Personas and how. Most brands don't have their Personas built out. They don't know who they are, they don't have a name for them. So without that, you're not able to create content that matches your different Personas.

So doing that Persona exercise, you'll find out what the best channel for you, you might be. But I mean, regardless, like, every brand will be different. One of the Personas every brand has to remember is the journalists, the media, the bloggers, the influencers. That, you know, that is going to be a category that you're trying to ideally get in front of so that you can reach a wider audience and get, you know, you're not, you're the brand journalist, you're the host, but you also want to be the guest and the expert source on a podcast or on.

An online publication or in a Facebook group that might have.

A million members.

Gotcha. So are you using the various social media platforms as a tool to grow your brand amongst people that follow you on social media, or are you using the social media platform to get yourself in front of these various medias? Are you using social media to get in front of podcasters, bloggers.

TV show personalities, things like that, or is it kind of a combo of both?

It's a combo of both. I mean.

There'S one way where you're using social media basically as a media relations tool so you're interacting with, finding out where the journalists that you're targeting are most active. Is it LinkedIn or is it Twitter or usually it's not Facebook, but making sure that that is your media relations tool that you know the days of like picking up the phone and pitching for a story are pretty much gone. Like everything happens in the DM or in, you know, building relationships through that. And, you know, so having that, that strategy as part of your social media strategy is super important. It is the media outreach of today. But it. Media outreach from a traditional standpoint still has its place. So I don't want to insinuate that there's not a place for traditional media outreach, but it's just now a blend and kind of taking it like one step further. If you did get coverage by a podcast or any type of media coverage, taking that and repackaging it and repurposing it and using that as third party credibility for your audience to see that you were interviewed by XYZ and that it gives you the opportunity to sell without selling. So we'll take media coverage for clients and we'll completely repackage it, repurpose it as a blog post, make sure that.

Their customers and prospects know that they were featured on this Buy Hustle and Flowchart or whatever the medium is.

Yeah, well, do you have kind of like a process? Because I know you mentioned the whole repurposing before. So let's say if someone gets coverage somewhere, maybe on a podcast, tv, a blog or something like that, do you kind of have the standard process that you go down or recommend?

Yeah.

I mean, so typically, I mean, one thing is you might be in the news and not realize it. You might be quoted from. If you were a speaker at a conference or did a webinar, somebody might use one of your quotes and, you know, if you didn't know they were doing that, then you have to have something like brand alerts or Google Alerts or Talk Walker is another way to monitor your brand name and make sure that you're able to monitor and know when you're actually getting the coverage and when things come out. So, so that's the first step is making sure you're not missing anything and then taking what makes sense. And I mean, we do all different types of ways to repurpose it where we'll do. I don't know if you've seen like taking, if it's an article online, like taking a screen recording of it, like scrolling and then using that as an Instagram story or.

Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, I haven't thought about that. Oh my God, we could do that all day long. There's so much content we get. That's cool. Okay, so that's a good example Right there, just screen record, record a blog post or some feature that you might have received. Even if it's, I bet you could do that of just like other, I don't know, mentions about your stuff on Instagram.

Yeah, I mean just making sure that like the visual is there. Okay, this person was quoted in Vogue, let's just say, or People magazine. And you know, then you can put the link in the bio to the actual article. We like to recommend like you know, to actually repurpose it as a blog post and then turning that into just like a summary and then linking back out to the original content so that your drive. It's also, you know, a way to get optimized content on your site that's connecting you with that publication name. And so you're able to optimize when people are searching. They'll go to your website maybe before they actually go to the actual publication. When Felicia Pagesh was on the show on episode 279, she dove into a bunch of fun topics such as conversion optimizations, webinars, landing pages and other useful techie talks. In the clip you're about to hear, Felicia shares how you can repurpose a.

Webinar to maximize your content.

And here's the deal. It's like, it's so funny because you know, with a webcast it's like a full production, right? You have, you know, you paid for video, you paid for maybe like a high end, you know, script or copywriter or you did it yourself and the time of cost there. And you, you know, you have your assets, you have your editing. You plan this so well because you believe that this is the best piece of, of material that will get someone to buy from you, right? Selfishly, I'm super type A and I will never ever I have written really great webinar scripts. I've never watched a single webinar from start. I will not do it. It's so funny because I was speaking at my friend Ron Reich's event not too long ago. I actually started to give this the repurposing presentation and I just figured like, let's just see like gauge because I don't know where everyone's at in this group, you know. So I said okay, show of hands, who here likes the book over the movie? You know, like some hands go up. And I said okay, everyone else, movie over book. Cool, set that all aside. Now let's talk about, let's talk about your marketing. Put your marketing hats on who here likes to, you know, who here consume who Here uses in your marketing webinars, every hand goes up. Video series hands, podcasts, blogs. At one point or another, every hand is up. Right? Okay, marketing, hats off. Let's talk about you as a consumer now, okay, who here uses, you know, or watches webinars as a means to learn or to purchase something, whatever? Not a single hand went freaking crickets. And like, everyone kind of busted into laughter because it's funny, right? Like, we are all saying that this is our best foot forward, our best approach to get someone else to buy our stuff. And not a single one of us would have watched that to buy something.

Wow.

So, you know, it's just a funny. It's a funny thing where, you know, you don't have to create new content. You don't have to appeal to people with, you know, a new presentation or new content. What you do is you shift your perception around it and realize that, you know, there are lots of different ways to get that content consumed. But basically, a webinar deconstructs into a video series. That video series deconstructs into, you know, three to four different audios. That audio gets transcribed into three to four different, you know, three to 4 different blog posts or an ebook combined, or a workbook if you had fill in the blank fields. There's just so many amazing ideas around that. For the people that have told you they're interested in your content because they opted into whatever the topic was, maybe they showed up and maybe they left or for whatever reason, you know, didn't take the action that you wanted them to, they've shown you clearly that they're interested in what you have to say. They're just not going to do it the way you want them to. You so doing everyone a disservice, really, to not make it available in that variety of ways.

Yeah, I mean, just the fact that they registered for that webinar, that's sort of them raising their hand saying, look, I'm interested in this content. But.

So what are some of the ways that you would use some of this repurposed content? Let's say we did get the transcripts or we broke it up into little videos. What can we do with that stuff?

So the first thing is, you know, if you have reason to believe that your webinar is your best asset, obviously you go with that first. Right. So people are going to show up, they're not going to not show up or whatever it may be. Everything's behaviors, Right. So you're always making an assumption based on a behavior. So in the event that someone doesn't show up or doesn't watch it all the way through, you might even consider putting on the webinar page just a download of the transcript. The cool thing about the download of the transcript is that every so often, there's a nice little soft sell link in there that says to learn more, to skip reading and learn more, go here, drive them right to.

If it's a live launch, obviously you don't want that to drive to your live offer page, but maybe you have an evergreen sales page that you drive it to instead. Something that what's really cool a few months later when you're getting sales and don't realize where they're coming from, it's coming from the transfer.

Nice.

Okay, so that's a really cool way to do it. A lot of people have opposition to that because they feel like people need to wait until a certain time when an offer is being made. But that's not. It's such an archaic concept because people need instant gratification. We're in an instant gratification world. So waiting until you decide they should see an offer, it's kind of silly. People will decide on their own and know right away whether they want something or not. I think we all have some things.

In our mind that need to be fixed. And that's just what Aaron File helped.

Us do on episode 283.

Her company, the Mind Fixed Group, helps.

People get over their mental roadblocks and.

Unearth the patterns that are hindering us from succeeding.

So at Mind Fix, we help people, especially entrepreneurs and high achievers, identify and then eliminate the biggest mental roadblocks and barriers that are keeping them stuck. And what that looks like, typically, is people will come to us and they'll have things like procrastination and perfectionism. Difficulty setting boundaries, difficulty saying no. Things where it's like, they've read the books and they've gone to the seminars, but they're like, why do I keep getting stuck in this pattern? And we're able to kind of come in, hear it out really quickly, and then send people on their way. And like, I forgot that I ever dealt with that.

Wow, you already said some hot points on there.

Like, that completely trigger.

I was like, yes, yes, and yes. Difficulty saying no. Check. Working on that. Procrastination. We talked about that. Like, some of the most important tasks. Well, just later, like, put them on a pedestal. They're important. So perfectionists. I know. I deal with that. So it's like, yeah, they're so Common.

I was just listening to a podcast last night of a woman who runs an insanely successful, very well known business that's all that revolves around the science of happiness and helping people be happier. And it was fascinating because she has these really useful techniques, you know, like self acceptance and self compassion and gratitude and things that we've heard a lot about. And yet right in the middle of the podcast she's, you know, she was sharing her struggles with, her continued struggles with perfectionism and how much, you know, and she was saying that you can deal with it by being compassionate to yourself and give yourself self love. And I'm sitting there going, that is true. And you can really clear out that pattern so that you don't have to be dealing with the perfectionism on such a constant basis. You know, here's this incredibly powerful woman who's saying that she. It's still a struggle and it has been since childhood, but those types of patterns are things that we don't have to deal with for the rest of our lives.

Yeah, let's talk about patterns. And it seems like that's kind of really the root, right? I mean, so where would you start there? I guess, like describe some of these common patterns that you see high achievers struggling with. And they might, yeah, as Joe and.

I sit here and go, yep, we have that one. Yep, we have that one. Yep.

They're so common. They're so common. So a pattern is just, it can be emotional or it can be behavioral. Right. So it can be. We get triggered into feeling angry whenever someone gives us feedback. Or we have a pattern of feeling anxious every time we're on camera. You know, like that could be a pattern. It's an emotional pattern. Other people will have behavioral patterns. So it might, someone might show up and say, every time I get on the phone and have a sales call, my behavior is, I clam up and I can never talk about prices, I can never bring up money. I just, every time it's time to talk about money, I just, I go quiet and I change the subject. Right. That could be a behavior that's repeated. So behavior could be something you keep doing but you don't want to do or something you avoid, you know? You know you're supposed to do it and you just don't do it. Like procrastination.

Right.

So what happens is we tend, when we sit down and think about it, we can usually come up with some patterns that, where you guys are like, yep, I always do that, I always do that. We have these different behaviors. And emotions that we get kind of stuck in over and over and over. And what's really exciting is you can identify the pattern, you can work backwards and clear out the pattern once you know what it is you want to change. And when you clear a pattern and it's no longer there, it frees up so much possibility and so much energy and so much space and time in your life because you're not having to deal with it and push through the resistance. And I'm going to try and say it this time and stressing about it and different feelings, like when it's gone, it's just not there.

That's awesome. Yeah. Because I know there's like so many books, there's so many things, and like, if it doesn't. It seems like if something doesn't resonate or like you can do it for a little bit, but then you get out of that pattern. It's, I guess. Are these like habits? Like, would you call them another term for habits or is that different?

No, it's, it's. We can have habits, but it's, it's not necessarily a habit. Like, it's not a habit that someone can't speak up for themselves and that they always clam up. That's not a habit. They really want to change it and they try to actively change it and they're like, I'm gonna say something this time. I'm not gonna let go. So it's not, it's not a habit. And they're not. It's not an automatic thing. People actually try to fight and they'll push against it and they'll push the resistance and it'll take energy. It's just they're stuck in a way of being or feeling that that's, that's what a pattern is. It's not, it's different than just I eat popcorn every time I sit down, you know, and watch a movie. It was an honor having Gabby Bernstein on episode 285 of the show. Gabby gave us some very practical tools to work through some tough stuff that.

Everyone goes through in their personal lives.

In the upcoming clip, Gabby goes into.

Her three step, choose again method which.

Enables us to get unstuck from the beliefs that are holding us back. Fear really runs our lives. Every choice we make, every experience we have is based on fearful experiences from our history that have defined who we are today. Now, does that mean that every corner of our life is backed with fear? No, not, not necessarily. But the areas where we have experienced energetic disturbances or the inciting Incidents that create a belief system that make us feel unlovable, unworthy, not good enough. And those belief systems are very ingrained in our psyche and in our subconscious as well. And without having any awareness of those belief systems, we are pretty much living trigger to trigger and just finding different coping mechanisms to manage that uncomfortable experience, to manage that discomfort, to manage those belief systems. And ultimately when those coping mechanisms are taken away from us, we're left with having to deal with them. That's kind of where we may be at today, given the, you know, the coronavirus and being at home and sort of stuck without some of our typical coping mechanisms. Many of us right now are faced with, we, whoa, I gotta look at my stuff, I gotta look at myself now. Wow, I didn't want to do that. When things feel out of control, people get really triggered and activated and old patterns and addictive patterns and behaviors might start to show back up and panic disorders and anxiety and a lot of the feelings that are the unhealed parts of ourselves that I like to refer to as the disowned parts of our shadow that we haven't had the, the willingness to face now are being planted in our face. So we have two choices. We can numb out further through the, you know, through drinking or through TV or gaming or whatever the ways that we can numb out, or we can go there. My hope is that more and more people choose to go there when I say go there. Get into the inquiry, get into the exploration, maybe open a self help book, maybe maybe get on a call with a therapist, maybe join a support group, maybe listen to a podcast like this. Do something to explore the deeper parts of your psyche that may need to be developed at this time, particularly in order to feel safe, in order to feel secure, in order to feel grounded and have a sustainable experience right now. I think the first step is to really recognize and identify the ways that we may be stuck in those belief systems that are holding us back. So we all have a story, we all have different fear based stories that are really funky, right? So there may be that story of financial insecurity, or maybe there's a story of a body image condition, or maybe there's a story of I'm incomplete without a partner. And when we start to pay attention to the stories that keep showing up and kind of blowing up in our face, that's when we start to, to really have a greater awareness of what needs to be healed. And the first step to healing a behavioral pattern or a thought pattern is to witness it and to look at it and to notice it and to identify how it makes you feel and the ways that it's, that it's, you know, creating disturbances energetically for you. And the next step is to really begin to allow yourself to let yourself off the hook and forgive yourself for having those thoughts. And I've just jumped into this method that I call the choose again method that you both have said that you admire. So I'm going to give it back to you. So step one was witness the thought. Notice the negative fear based thought. How does it make me feel? What is this thought that I have on repeat and how does it make me feel? The second step is to forgive yourself for having the thought. So when we forgive ourselves for having these thoughts, what happens is that we, we no longer believe that we are the thought. We see ourselves as when we have a thought that's on repeat, it becomes a belief system. But when we forgive ourselves for having the thought, we start to see, oh wait, that's not, I am not that thought. It's just a thought that keeps thinking, but it's not who I am. And sometimes you want to be like, I can't forgive myself for having that thought. But maybe they can forgive the thought. Maybe they can just look at the thought and say forgive that thought. So that dismantles the attachment that we have to that perception of who we think we are. And the third step is the most fun step which is to reach for the next best feeling thought. This is the step where we choose again where we reach for the better thought. So if the thought we keep thinking is, you know, I'm so financially insecure, I'll never have money again, I'm terrified. We forgive ourselves for having the thought. Then we begin to reach for the next best feeling thought. Well, I have some space right now because I'm on unemployment and I have in this space I can start to discover new ways to have creative possibilities for earning. And I do have a lot of relationships in my field and I can reach out to those relationships to see if there's some part time work. And this clear head may give me the opportunity to do more purpose driven work. At this time you see where I'm going, you just start to reach for the third thoughts that you believe in and you reach and reach and reach until the point where you get yourself out of the negative momentum of the fearful thought and back into a positive flow with a more, more energized way of perceiving the situation. Now I'm not suggesting that you Take a difficult situation and pretend like it's gone. What I am suggesting is that you lean into the ways that you can perceive it differently.

Next up, we have Kim Cross Schwartz.

Kim joined us to share why writing your own copy is a huge mistake. And in this next clip, she shares.

Her tips for hiring a copywriter.

If you want to hear more from Kim, be sure to check out episode 287.

Matt and I were chatting before with you about how we've run into hiring copywriters that just don't pan out how we wished it would have. And it's probably because of our lack of wanting to invest more in them or maybe build in incentives like you said, royalties and maybe some extra things. So help us out.

Yeah, yeah. Well, sometimes you get what you pay for. I mean, we all know that's sort of one of those things. Now, that's not to say there's a lot of really good up and coming copywriters. I mean, I know I've been mentoring some myself, and not everybody you need to pay huge dollars for and you can get some really good copy. I mean, I started out, like, obviously not making, you know, what I've made in recent years. And, you know, people saw in me. Oh, I remember once somebody said, you know, you're like this. What does she call me, like a hidden gem or something. And. And I kind of felt like I was just like this dusty old thing, like in an antique shop that somebody like just picked up, you know, said, oh, this one's kind of cool.

Diamond. Enough rock.

Maybe that's what she did. But I felt like it was kind of a weird. I don't know, I felt a little weird about it, but I was like, okay, it's fine, you know, I'm not gonna like. But anyway. But she, you know, then she just started giving me some more opportunities. And so, you know, I was able to take these small projects, like, you know, two page renewal letters or some emails or whatever, and really do very well with them. And then next thing you know, they're like, well, let's give her a chance at one of these big projects, you know, and then within a year or so, I think on my second try, I beat Jim Rutz. I don't know if you ever heard of the late Jim Rutz, but he was like this great copywriter. He was legendary. And he had the control for their flagship financial newsletter. And here I was, this little upstart, you know, and I was able to beat him. And. And then as soon as Brian Kurtz Heard that I had the control for this product and had beat Jim Rutz. He's like, let's hire him to write a boardroom promo. And then I went up against Paris on Popola. So there was like some seven year control for tax hotline. And then I ended up beating his promo. And, and I, you know, I became the first female copywriter to go to boardroom control. But it all started with just being a little diamond in the rough that somebody said, hey, she looks like she could write some good copy. And so I guess for those kinds of things you want to look at is even if they haven't written exactly for your type of product or even the type of promo that you want them to write, get some samples of their work. And I always tell other copywriters, starting out, the best way to start is just start getting some paid work, getting some samples in your portfolio. And it don't necessarily have to be exactly in. Like, you don't just say, oh, I only write for the poodle owners who live in San Diego niche or whatever, you know, like, sometimes people just like, want you to go so micro. And it's like, that's crazy, especially if you're just starting out. Like, I would write for pretty much everybody and anything almost, you know, like when I was starting out. But I think it made me a better copywriter because I wrote such a wide variety of stuff. I mean, again, a lot of it was in health and financial because of my background. But, you know, it gives you that flexibility and you know, because you realize too, like, you know, none of these two products are really exactly the same and you don't want to take a fill in the blanks, formulaic approach to every single promo, you know, so, I mean, I could go on and on about that topic, but yeah, so that's kind of how I got started. And so things you would look for is look at their writing, look at their portfolio, and kind of just talk to them and just, you know, are they a person who is really passionate, like, very curious? Do they, you know what, you know, did they strike? These kind of persons gonna really put the hard work into the promo, you know?

Yeah, well, not, not to get too granular here, but when you do get samples, what kind of things are you looking for inside of the samples? Like, if, if we're somebody who maybe isn't well versed in copywriting, reading a sample of somebody else's work, what. What kind of things would I be looking for?

That's a good question. I mean, one thing you could do is just read it cold, as if you were the prospect. Like, does. Does the headline grab you? You know, does it make you want to read further? You know, do you find yourself, you know, reading it and not getting confused or lost? I mean, I had, you know, I've had the experience of having, you know, Paris and Propolis, who I just mentioned earlier, but he copy chiefs, all the copywriters who write for one of my clients. And so I think he told me once, sometimes he just prefers to read it, like, read copy that he's reviewing, like at night, maybe, you know, when he's kind of sleepy and maybe after a drink or who knows, you know? And does it, like, does it still grab him? Does it, like, does it. Is he able to follow it?

You know, so basically, like, get him out of his own head almost like.

Yeah, get a little different prospect. Be able to look at it. Cool. I know it's hard, like, but if you're. You're a business owner and, you know, sometimes it's hard to sing to write your own copy. I mean, I have the experience sharing with you, you. Of having my own copywriting programs, and sometimes I'm just like, oh, my God, like, it's so hard to just write my own copy. And I get other people to write it who have been through the program because they can usually take a fresher approach than I can.

Laura Gale, author and fellow podcaster, joined.

Us on episode 304 to talk about the step by step method she uses to guide people to finally get that book published.

She also shares with us what people.

Miss in the publishing process. So I think what a lot of people don't really know is that most publishers are putting out dozens, if not hundreds of books every month. And so if, you know, I'm working on. So publishers are split into what they call imprints, which is basically sections that publish different genres of books. So if I was working on a particular imprint and we were publishing, say 50 books in a month, there's only so much time that I can spend promoting each one.

So it does really come down to what the author is willing to do. If you're in a traditional publishing situation, obviously the publisher is going to do as much as they can, but you just have to be aware that that might not be that much.

Yeah, I mean, there's like 30, 30 days in a month and they can't even do a single blog post or like a social media post for a book.

Right, Right. So it's a lot. Honestly, there are as many ways as a self publisher to market your book as you can can possibly imagine. You can do so many different things with it, and it sort of does depend what you want the book to do as a project and within your business. So if you're using the book as a way to acquire customers, which I think is probably the primary motivation for most entrepreneurs who write a book, they want to either get in front of a bigger audience or they want to start that kind of sales process with an existing audience.

I always think it's best to sort of fit it into what you're doing already that you're really good at. Like, don't try and reinvent the wheel to promote this thing. It's just like any other product launch you would do. So if you're really great at Facebook ads, find a way to work it into your Facebook ads. If you're really awesome on Instagram, then promote it all over Instagram. If you're really good at live events, which obviously during COVID is a little bit difficult, but if you're having live events, then you can promote it it live. Like there's a lot of different things you can do and people forget also to take it offline. So there's still a whole world of media that has nothing to do with the Internet. And a lot of those platforms are really starved because people have forgotten about them.

What kind of examples of that? Because obviously there's bookstores, but what other outside of the Internet platforms would you identify there?

So things like your local newspaper, your local radio station or TV station, you know, if there's a story of like hometown kid made good, who doesn't want to run that story. Right. It's a great way as well to sort of trade up the chain where if you get coverage on a small station, you can go to maybe a statewide station and say, hey, I've been featured here. Would you also like to run this story? And then you can kind of trade it up that way so you can get a lot of coverage fairly quickly by focusing on this kind of low competition environment. Bookstores, as you mentioned, are another great opportunity. A lot of bookstores will be happy for you to go and do a book signing or an event, a launch party.

There's lots of fun things that you can do in a bookstore. And most bookstores are struggling, so they're pretty happy for any kind of event that would get people in the door.

And they're mainly independent bookstore. Well, I mean, there's not a lot of them, but obviously there's the big chains out there, there would you say Target, kind of the smaller stores first?

If you're self publishing, then yeah, I would go just introduce yourself, take a copy of your book, show them what you're about, ask them if they'd be interested in stocking it. A lot of independents have the kind of power to make a decision for themselves, whereas a big chain store has to go through a buying department. And so there's a lot of intricacy that goes into that acquisition process. So if you can establish a relationship with some local booksellers, then that's a really good asset to have as well. But obviously, I mean most of us are spending the bulk of our time online, so definitely things like, you know, you can do a zoom party launch, you can. There's obviously email marketing is a huge factor in how you can promote. I think if you've got an existing email list, then do a pre launch campaign.

Make the book available for pre order so that the day that it orders you're probably likely to hit number one in your category on Amazon and then you can kind of leverage that into more publicity.

A little bit of hand outreach also goes a really long way. People don't really think about this because it's very manual and it's time consuming, but emailing people individually to say, hey, I've got this book out, I think it would be great for your audience. Maybe you'd like to share it. It can go a really long way. And some of the best results I've had from projects have come from that very high touch kind of interaction with people. And lastly, but surely not leastly, we have Melanie Benson. Melanie is a fellow podcaster, revenue strategist and business performance optimizer who guides entrepreneurs.

To accelerate their impact and income by.

Making their business perform 10 times better.

In this last clip, she shares her.

Strategy for picking the right podcast to guest on. Let's start with picking the right shows because I think we've defined that's so huge.

I think one of the things we have to remember, whether we're a business owner, a business leader, entrepreneur, service professional, I like to call them expertpreneurs. People building a business around their expertise. The show matters. Now in the beginning. Let me give a caveat. If you're just getting started, it might make sense to get on some less niched shows to get some momentum building. Kind of get your feet wet, like start to get comfortable with getting your message out. But once you start flipping from I got all the time in the world, I'll take any show to I got zero time. Like these got to count. You want to hone it in. And so here's my little trick.

I first look at my competitors. Who are my competitors? Or we might say our collaborative partners.

You can just say competitors.

Well, ranges both. Right. But it's like, who is serving my ideal audience? And they already have a podcast second part. And this ties into what I led with in the beginning. What's the problem I am uniquely solving and that they don't do or they don't make their focus point. And it goes back to many of my competitors are solving or creating a problem that I am uniquely qualified to solve. Okay, so if you can't find that angle, then look for something that complements what they do. You could actually have the same core delivery, but maybe you have one little specialty piece that they don't do do, but you're solving. So really, the core is like, who's my audience? And that means you really need to understand who your core audience is. And I don't know if you guys have picked up on this, but a lot of people, they don't really know who their audience is. They don't know who their ideal client is. Right. And you go in to start. Like, I'm really big on. On helping people develop a magnetic message to deliver in those times, and what I found is they don't know who their ideal audience is. So they're talking to everybody and nobody's listening.

I mean, we honestly are very guilty of that for a while. We literally just recently did a whole full avatar, like, what's our perfect avatar? And reworked a lot of our messaging. I think we kind of mentioned that in the beginning of the show. But you're right. Most people don't think, like, who is that? Where are they at? Who are they reading? Who are they listening to? And how can you show up right there?

Yeah. And I like to think of it. There's. There's probably more than we have time for, but there's a little formula that I designed to help people really uncover who they person is. But even if you know who that person is, you're still going to find there's times to refine it. So if you're on someone's podcast who maybe attracts all women, but your core audience is women who are building a business around their expertise, you want to, like, have the courage to lean into that and say, great idea, but probably, you know, unless I've got some bandwidth and I just want to test it out and see what happens happens. I'M just gonna keep passing on the people that are talking to everyone so I can focus on the people that I really want to be in front of.

Yeah, that makes sense. So when you're deciding which podcast to be on, where are you going to look for them? How are you discovering them? Is it you just browsing itunes or is there some sort of resource that you use to pick out podcasts to be on?

Okay, well, I don't have a super scientific method. I'm really in a very high class problem situation where I have an abundance of podcasters around me and podcasts are coming to me more than I'm going to them at this point.

Knowing Steve Ulcer will do that to you.

Yes.

The benefit to being an icon is lineup. And if I want to really start niching down, which we have been, what I might do is look at who the shows my best competitors have been featured on lately. So you can kind of do a little spying on them on social media or go look on their media page and see where they've been featured lately. We can do Google searches and actually I don't remember what the name of this tool is, but I just got. I'm in a mastermind that I was like, oh my gosh, like this guy just gave all this cool SEO tools to. It actually will go and look up, up what the shows are that fit your niche. So I'll circle back and give you guys the name of it. I had to go look it up. I don't remember what it is. It's so hot. I was like, I haven't tried it yet. So full disclosure, I don't know if it works, but he was talking about and I'm like, I'm totally doing that.

That sounds one of the tips I know like where we do some research and maybe it helps you. It's similar to Google searching. But listen notes.complug that was it actually.

Yeah, is that. I think it was.

We use it for research for our own guests, like coming on the show, but definitely for podcast guesting. It's the best way.

Totally nice.

That's my core plan. And also I keep a database. So like if I'm working with a client and I know there's certain shows that I love and so I keep a database of. All right, so client, I want you to go pitch yourself to these 10 shows because I think in the beginning a lot of people are like, I don't even know where to start. So just even having a kind of a something to get going on helps. You kind of get in that momentum.

Yeah.

And that's the thing is, so you said kind of start with a less niched show. Right. So would that be to kind of like get their chops going, kind of get the flow, their messaging?

If you're gonna screw up, screw up on a show nobody's listening to.

Well.

That was what I was gonna say is like, pick the lesser known shows to start. And I actually tell my clients that I'm like, don't go for the big shows out of the gate. Like, let me. Let me listen to your episode and give you some critique before you go for the big show. I actually had a client who, she bought a segment on John Lee Dumas show and I. And she told me her topic and I'm like, oh, man, can we work on that before you go?

Yeah, you're gonna have to pay. Fork over some coin to get on his show. Yeah.

I mean, with his show, though, I have heard that if you get on it and you are the right audience, he will send you some traffic. He will drive. It's worth it if you have the right audience.

I still get leads from my episode I did with him seven years ago.

Wow.

That show has brought me something close to 45,000 in revenue that I can track. I don't even know or half it came from. It is a great show and you get on a good show, and I think that's what's possible, especially if you know how to work the episode once it airs.

My God, that was an epic episode. That was epic.

I mean, that was like. I'm doing the math in my head. That was like 13 gold nuggets.

@.

Least. At least. At least. So, I mean, I think there's no better way to celebrate the amazing women who have been on this podcast other than doing.

This.

Yes. And highlighting them all over.

Again. But then we also wanted to wrap this thing up by celebrating some of the amazing women in our life that haven't been on the podcast.

Yet.

Dang.

Right. Yet. That's right. Yet is a great word. You.

Start. I'll.

Start.

Yeah. Well, I don't. I don't know who. Well, I.

Do. Oh, God. Get out of here. Confess your love. Go be honest. Matt, you said you don't filter anything. I don't.

Filter. No. I'm going to start with my wife Alana, who actually helps us quite a bit in this business. Every single, single show. Notes that pass through this. They pass through Alana before they go live on the site. She's actually the editor who edits all of the notes that our members get, and she also edits all of the show notes that you see on the website. So she's actually a bigger piece of her business and we don't acknowledge that very often on the show. So I want to acknowledge her also. I love the hell out of her and she's my best friend, so there's also.

That. Anymore. Anything.

More? Anything more on her? On.

Her. I mean, what do you appreciate the.

Most? What do I appreciate the.

Most?

I'm just making you uncomfortable on purpose. You don't.

Have. No, because my natural tendency is to start making jokes. I'm trying to avoid making jokes for this.

One. I'm trying to be serious and give her some love to the peeps.

Here. No, my wife. My wife is awesome and insanely supportive. Right. Like when I. The last couple of weeks when we've been doing this pod hacker launch, I've been sort of heads down in my office day and night building stuff while she's homeschooling our kids, making dinners, you know, taking care of the household side of things while I'm heads down focused on this stuff for the last couple weeks. So, I mean, like, I, I am insanely appreciative of, of essentially what she puts up with because we have the business that we have sometimes. I mean, it's not always as heads down, crazy focused. But the last couple weeks, like, really, really stepped up and has. Has been an amazing, amazing help and support for our.

Business. I love it, man. Yeah. No, she is absolutely crucial to the success of what we're doing. I mean, honestly, if it wasn't for her and also the woman in my life, I want to highlight my wife Heather. Same exact thing. If it wasn't for either of them, both of them, we would not be doing what we're doing now. Yeah, I mean, that goes all the way back to, you know, like this whole Rich Sheffrin thing. We had a Rich Sheffern episode that's going to come out. If it wasn't for them, we would not know of him or take the leap into entrepreneurship. So it was their support to literally, I think it was $1,000 that we had to go and debt to which isn't a lot, but it was a shit ton at that time. At the time, it was for us, huge. And we had to get both of their permissions, sign off as partners and people that we want to take on this journey with us.

Yeah. Hey, by the way, this debt that I'm going into, it's Going to be your debt because we're married. So is this.

Cool? And we were like, both of us, because we both got married within, what, six or eight months of each.

Other or something like.

That. Something like that, yeah. That was a fresh marriage too. So it's like, cool. Do you trust me? Yeah. So, yeah, great way to start that out. And they stuck with us, thank God. So Heather.

She'S literally. She is my best friend. She's a lot. She puts up with a lot of stuff as well. She's not actively in our business, but she definitely hears probably way too much because of just me, bleh. Of the mouth of whatever, the cool thing I've done or something that she should know about, that I think she should know about. But she doesn't need to hear about all that stuff. Point being is that she deals with my crap every single day. And she's not the only one, Joe. Oh, man. God. I know. I can only imagine. No, but she is. She's so amazing, supportive, thoughtful. Because she is doing so many things that I just don't want to do, which is just the, like, take showers. Take showers. I actually love showers. I don't think she gets the opportunity to take as many because she's running around after my baby the whole time. Our kid. But at the time, same, same time, she's an amazing entrepreneur in her own right. She's doing some insane moves because she's. I mean, she's just smart and has done so much on herself, but she has also listened to so much of our blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and. And one of these days we're going to bring them both on this episode, on this podcast in some format. We'll figure it out later. But yeah, Heather, my best friend as well, big support staff and I don't know, love her, love her like hell. So I will definitely share this one with them. I don't know if they'll make it through two hours or whatever this episode came to, so hopefully they can hear.

Us. You can always fast forward to the.

End.

Yeah. And then we gotta. We gotta shout out Sue. Sue can't do this episode without.

Sue. That is a very good point. She is a pillar of everything we do in our business. So, sue, we love you too. You are amazing. Thank.

You. Yes. And anybody listening in, sue is the person who, who listens to all of our bantering and conversations with people and turns them into notes on the website and notes for the members of our Evergreen Profits community. And you might have also, if you've Ever written into support. She's also in there. And if you're in our Facebook communities, she's also over there helping moderate there. So sue is everywhere and she's a big piece of our business and we wouldn't be where we are without.

Her. It's just so cool. We have a. It is a big family that we have here. And that even extends to the guests that we bring onto our podcast because most of these people do become friends. So I think it's just. It's special to be able to highlight these folks in a special.

Way.

Yeah. And. And actually mean it. This isn't some like, PR stick or anything like that, because this is. This is just really cool. I'm happy that we're doing.

This. Yeah. I mean, this is really sort of outside of our normal systems. Right. Like, this is a non normal day for podcast release. This is a non normal episode with multiple clips. So, you know, it's. I think this is a really good way to do something special and honor the women who have been on our show recently. Honor the women in our lives and just, you know, show our gratitude. Because sometimes we, you know, we put out like these top 10 lists and we go, man, we certainly are good at getting white middle class male dudes. Maybe not middle class, but white males on our.

Show. No, it's true. And I mean, this has been brought up by multiple people in many regards, not just the women thing, but maybe the white thing. It's definitely something we're attentive of. And I keep bringing this up, but Rich Sheffern, we actually had it talk about that and he was saying the same exact thing. It's so tough to. To get. Well, in his case, he was talking about women going to his event, his launch, and that's the same thing with podcasting. We hope it doesn't stay that way. I know folks like Lisa Byer, I want to give her another shout out here. She is helping us tremendously as kind of this perspective on the outside because I think this is the case for a lot of folks. We're just so close to our stuff and we get so caught up in the motions of our routines and systems that we don't look at the macro and realize some of these patterns. Also, a quick shout out. He's not a female, but Jacob, the fact that he busted his ass to get this thing done as well.

Yes. Jacob is a rock star for helping us put together this episode. He's our podcast producer and he's the head of content in our.

Business. Damn right he is. So sue and Jacob made this happen. All we're doing is just looking pretty behind this mic and doing an intro and outro for.

You. Looking pretty with. With one that doesn't even have.

Video. They would never know.

Matt. Oh, sorry.

Sorry. I'm whispering. I'm told not.

To. I'm actually not feeling very pretty. I'm feeling very sweaty right now. My office is getting hot, and I'm wearing a.

Sweater. All right, let's wrap this puppy up. Thank you to all the women that have been on this podcast, women in our lives, and you, if you're a woman listening, thank you. You are.

Appreciated. And if you're one of the women that we recorded an episode with in 2021, this is gonna be something we'd like to do.

Annually. So that's the.

Plan. And ideally, these episodes get longer and longer and longer each.

Year.

Year. Because that just means we've had more badass women.

On. That's a good point. All right, I like that where you're going with that. All right, we should stop this now. You've been with us for far too long on a day that doesn't land on a podcast day, so thank.

You. Sorry for ruining your.

Monday.

Go share this around with some other cool women that you like. Or men. Men that should appreciate some of these.

Women. Men probably need to hear it more than the.

Women. That's a very good point. Yes. A very extremely good. Good point. Share it with all the men in your.

Life.

Yes. You know who needs to hear it? Absolutely. Thank you very much. Appreciate you. See you next.

Time. Bye bye.

Tomorrow. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address, and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for.

Listening. Go get it.

Wiki.

Wiki. We love you.