Alex Mandossian - The Storytelling Formula That Makes Sales

I don't change minds. I convince minds who are already coming in my direction or going to a competitor. I rechannel behavior. I don't create new behavior. We don't have the money and resources to do that. So we re channel, demand. And if you let people know what you're not first, now you're doing them a service of getting rid of at least 80% of the people who don't give a shit in the first place. And then from that 20%, if you can get 10% of those people of the 20, then you're good to go. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Welcome back.

What's happening?

We're back with another awesome guest. That's what's happening.

He's a legend.

A legend.

He is bg. He said before Google as a legend. Who are we chatting with today, Matt?

Today we are talking with Alex Mendozian, who we actually saw speak at a GKIC conference several years ago all about repurposing. I think it actually might come up on the show.

It did. He was talking about Dan Kennedy and we're like, we were there actually.

Yeah.

So we have seen him. Never met him in person, but this chat was so damn cool. Went down the rabbit hole on how to sell. Even if you are one that hates or it's just uncomfortable and you have a total story framework that is not only will you be sucked into this story itself or multiple stories, he's gonna break down exactly how he did it piece by piece. And it's good. You can apply that to anything.

Yeah, no. His story framework. Not only does he give you the framework, but he tells a story and then jumps back and forth between the story and the framework to explain what part of the story he's in so that you can better understand this story framework. Crazy. It's phenomenal.

Ye. So a couple things about Alex before we jump in. He's the CEO of MarketingOnline.com he helps business owners, serial entrepreneurs grow their skillset, mindset and balance sheets. He also, he's the host and you'll hear us chat about this a lot. Is all selling aside podcast. If you go check that out, it will be linked on the show notes too. I think we have an episode we pulled out to basically share. But basically he is devoted to help coaches, consultants, and service professionals who hate selling, which is most. So Alex has worked with the gurus and you'll hear that a lot of the gurus are actually. Basically, they see him as a mentor now or. No, him as. I don't know. I'm confusing myself actually now.

Yeah. He said all the people he mentored have passed him now.

That's it. I'm like, wait, hold on. I started backwards. Bad story. Didn't structure that. So let's go over to Alex. In a second.

In a second.

We tell him about. You should get the action guides in this episode.

Yeah. So if you go to flowchartgroup.com you can can join our Facebook group. And when you're joining the Facebook group, we'll ask you for your email. If you decide to give us your email while joining the group, we will send you the action guide to whatever episodes came out in the last two weeks. So if you are there within two weeks of this going live, you will get the action guide for this episode. So go to flowchartgroup.com and join the community and grab the notes.

Get them, get them. They're going to be good. Breaking down the story structure stuff. And lastly, let's give a quick shout out to Pod Hacker.

Go get Pod Hacker.

You can go get that. You might be asking, what is Pod Hacker? Well, that's basically our framework to take content and make it a big brand, attract the right people to join your community, your email list, and actually buy stuff from you in multitudes of ways. So Pod Hackers serves not just podcasters, even though podcasting is a part of it, it's good for everybody. So we created a playbook.

Yes.

Tell us a little bit more about it. Yeah.

If you go to podhacker.com playbook we've actually sort of round up all sorts of podcasters who are just doing amazing things and growth and monetization and getting amazing guests on the show. And we rounded up all their tips and tactics and strategies and put them inside of the Pod Hacker Playbook. And you can get that for free over@podhacker.com playbook and we'll also make you aware and give you more information about our Pod Hacker course there as well. But for now, let's start with the Playbook.

Let's start with the Playbook. Now let's. Let's go chat with our buddy Alex. All right, we're rolling. Alex, thanks for joining us today.

Well, you're welcome. I'm glad I could join you. We've never met before, but let's see how far this goes.

We're just chatting off to a good start. It was Jack Bourne made the introduction. He said, definitely got to bring Alex on. And we followed you all throughout the years. I mean, you've been around what it was pre Google days, right?

So you've seen 1995. The most annoying thing is when my students become my teachers and mentors.

So I've heard it's kind of an ego burst.

But it's an honor as well because they've ascended just through not only what I've taught, but other people have taught them. And it's just fun to watch that ascension.

And for me, I prefer to be.

The teacher, the mentor, the coach versus.

Building the $30 million company.

So we've done quite well.

But starting before Google, we made things.

Happen with teleseminars and not even video.

Without Facebook, without even Google, without Twitter.

Or YouTube or anything like that. So I'd love to discuss some of those things. And going back to H to H marketing human to human versus B2B or B2C.

Yeah, I feel like that's the desire maybe more so because of the pandemic time and us being away from humans so much is this desire to go more H to. I've heard a couple people talk about that. So let's definitely chat about your perspectives because I know a lot has been lost maybe in. I think I've heard you say the lazy marketers. Now a lot of folks can or are a little lazy because of the different platforms out there and the different things that can help leverage messaging. But really at the end of the day, it's H2H and there's stories selling. I know we'll talk about especially folks who don't really enjoy selling or maybe don't find it natural. You have a great system for that. So yeah, maybe, maybe we could talk about that is kind of the differences that you've already seen or that you've seen throughout the years since 95.

Sure.

This pre Google days.

Well, I think one story that's very relevant deals with the target audience, which we call the market and the message which is what we're actually conveying to that market and then the medium or media. And if you look at it as a bicycle wheel, I used to race 10 speeds back in the day, in the 80s. I was a professional cyclist. And so the wheel is the market, the hub is the message. But the hub and the wheel by themselves are meaningless. You have to have the spokes and that's the media.

Right.

That connect the message to market. And if you know how to true a bicycle wheel truing means it's not wobbling. It's always done near the wheel. There are these little nipples and you have a truing key and you true it so that the wheel is going nice and round. You don't do it near the message, which is the hub. So it's a poetic way of looking at how to have the perfect message to market match. Dan Kennedy has been a colleague of mine for many, many years, also a mentor and I have a lot of friends who are part of that. The Kennedy tribe and herd over the years.

Yeah, we've seen you speak there actually a lot. Yeah, I don't know what year it.

Was back in the day.

Yeah, y.

Well, maybe. Maybe one of the times you saw me speak was about repurposing and I had someone build a bicycle wheel 100% right on stage.

Yeah, it was one of the GKIC events. It was probably 2010 somewhere around there.

Yeah, yeah, something around. Yeah. It was after the financial.

The hoopla in 2008, 2009. But it was good for me. I got a lot of people to run to the back table, so that was nice. And Bill Glaser was back around then with Dan, so it worked quite well. But the bicycle wheel is a great analogy because if you look at having multiple media versus just Facebook, just YouTube, just Instagram, then if you have a typical wheel has 36 spokes, if one of them breaks or one of them becomes obsolete and rusted, then the other ones are still working. And the ones that really work the best are human to human interaction. Whether it's one to many on a podcast like this or one to one in a video or audio setting with a phone, or one to many in a discovery session where there's a group of people, which I've done over the years, and I get paid a lot of money just to teach people the strategies. There's 13 questions we teach people to ask. And we never sell on return on investment. We always sell on cost of inaction, which we call coi. So we'll talk about that in a bit. Let me see that for now. But going back to the market, the message and the media, I think the most important element is knowing that the fundamentals, you know, there's fun. That's the first word. Mental. It's got to be mental. It's got to be cerebral, right? And then in the middle is duh, like duh da. It's like, you know, fun duh mentals. And people look at it because it's not new. You know, they don't embrace it and yet it's the things that have lasted thousands of years that that make the most sense. Like the Socratic method, 2500 years, the Ten Commandments, over 3000 years. You know, that was a two page ad spread, you know, this salesperson named Moses. You don't have to be Christian or Jew to know that maybe it happened, I wasn't there, but it was this mountain, it came down and maybe there were 15 commandments, he broke one of them. But it was a two page magazine ad basically. And you know, it seems to have lasted throughout humanity. And so some of the greatest marketing campaigns have lasted through spiritual tradition. So I look at that and we look at, okay, where is the market? And you know, what is it that we're not to them? So I think the most fundamental thing I want to mention since I'm a dinosaur, I come back from BG era before Google 1995 and I've seen a lot of my students become now my mentors, which is totally annoying. But it is what it is. And my mother still doesn't know what I do. But that's okay. One day it just happens. But I like to tell my market what I'm not. So let's say I'm selling Kobe hamburgers, Kobe beef hamburgers. Now if you're a vegetarian, I apologize, but if you Wagyu hamburgers, that's another type of high end beef, right? So let's say these burgers, these aren't like Omaha Steaks. Let's say you have Kobe and Wagyu beef hamburgers that are delivered once a month and they're sent to you like Omaha Steaks, which is mail order and has done very, very well over the years. So the way I would start the ad, whether online or offline, is if you're a vegetarian, if you're a vegan, if you're committed to eating low end hamburgers, then stop reading now or stop watching now because this is not for you. But if you want the most succulent, the most mouthwatering and the highest end grass fed Wagyu or Kobe beef hamburgers that are the most expensive in the world to really impress your family and friends, then this could be your opportunity of a lifetime. So I don't pre qualify when I'm enrolling or selling people, I disqualify first. Get those people out so they don't infect energetically my ad because I really do believe that some people may think, wow, that's woo woo. Well I hope you think that because I hope we're competing with each other. It does matter. It does matter.

We're all energy, everything. Yeah, yeah.

We get rid of them first and then you pre qualify and there lies the H2H. Why waste people time and pre qualification if you know who it's not for? So if you focus on who it's not for, let's say you have an Internet marketing conference and I and a partner of mine and I had one, you know, one of the first and what made it different is we, he, it was his and I was his integrator. His name was Armin Morin. He's an old timer as well. He started before I did actually.

He would feed people. So he would feed them lunch and dinner and that was that. That made it a completely different type of Internet marketing conference. And we'd have 500 people there. We'd launch new products. We were the first to put audio online called Audio Generator. We put video before YouTube called instant video Generator. We had a launch that made $1.2 million in less than 30 minutes in 2007 off of the teleseminar. No Facebook, no YouTube, no social media. And that was called Marketing Makeover Generator, which is the precursor to LeadPages and Click Funnels and all the other types of products like that. So where it comes from is first identifying who it's not for and then identifying who it is for. So get rid of who it isn't for first and then focus on who it is for and just pare it down. And that's how you can sell high ticket items a lot faster, easier and better and even low ticket items. But what do most people do? They go after people and try to pre qualify them and include everybody.

They go broad.

Yeah, they go, they go for the blue ocean.

Right.

And the challenge with that versus going for a. Well, you know, for a water. Well, the challenge with that is, well, if you have a vegan or veg vegetarian, they're not going to eat beef no matter what. So why not tell them what you're not first? And then that way there's no guesswork. My root mentor, Bucky Fuller. Buckminster Fuller. He was the Leonardo da Vinci of the 20th century. Most people don't know him, but because of him, probably many people have been mentored through his mentors. Mentors, mentors. Right. Through the lineage of mentorship. You should know your root mentor, you really should. Your first mentor is not the one who were they mentored by, who mentored them, so on and so forth. Bucky was my root mentor and he said, I know what is by first getting rid of what isn't. And so in marketing, the first thing I look at with the messaging, the hub, okay, well, what are we not and who is this not for? And then we don't connect. That spoke to the wheel. It's a waste of time and it's a waste of energy. And then once we establish who we're not, and it could be anyone, right? Then, whether it's wealthy, not wealthy, opportunity seeker or veteran newbie, or intermediate. Just define who you're not for and pick three things that you know, three elements that this is, who it's not for. Then once you get rid of them, because you've already done the genuine and authentic things, to discard who they are unless they change their mind. Hey, I want to start eating meat now, right? Then in my example now, you can start pre qualifying after that. But people don't do that still. They just pre qualify. And then they wonder why their conversion.

Rates are so low.

And I'm talking Facebook ads, I'm talking YouTube video ads, and every kind of ad you can think of. Does that make sense?

That's perfect sense. And a couple of things came to mind. First, on Buckminster Fuller, I'm pretty sure it was Einstein was his mentor, if I'm not mistaken.

One of them.

One of them, yes.

Paths. They crossed paths at Princeton. And Einstein said, young man, you are one of the only people who understand my theories and teachings. And both were brilliant men and women.

So you have a good lineage of mentors there, that's for sure. Thanks for passing it down. But also, it sounds like you're not in the game of changing minds when it comes to selling. You don't need to deal with all of that. Like the vegan example, even if they do getting a meat, you know, you're not the one that's going to convince them to start eating meat.

It's too much money and too much hassle. I just, I don't change minds. I convince minds who are already coming in my direction or going to a competitor. I rechannel behavior. I don't create new behavior. Steve Jobs created new behavior. He didn't invent the MP3, but the iPod. It didn't. It didn't become successful for three years. In fact, it went. It went south the first year, right. And when Jobs came back, originally, I got a chance to meet him and interview him for 15 minutes. He wasn't a very nice guy, but.

For management, but he was very clear thinker and he got fired. From the company he started. And then he comes back, he went from over 100 different products to less than seven. And then he launches this thing. He bets the ranch on a product and then it takes three years for it to really take root. Because he invented that demand. We don't have the money and resources to do that. So we re channel demand. And if you let people know what you're not first, now you're doing them a service of getting rid of at least 80% of the people who don't give a shit in the first place. And then from that 20%, if you can get 10% of those people of the 20, then you're good to go.

Yeah. Not to mention it really lowers all your acquisition costs as well. Just from disqualifying people ahead of time.

It's negative qualification. So even when I'm hiring talent, I tell them if you're lazy, if you have too many financial commitments, if you don't want to work on weekends, then this is not for you. Stop reading now. So I take them through a sequence of hoops and everything we do is that is just get rid of what you don't want first. That's disqualify and then pre qualify. And that two step process really makes things a lot more simple with lowering acquisition costs. And then you got like Jeff Bezos, he does 2000 split tests a day. I don't really believe in his political views, but he's a great marketer. And, and 2,000 split tests a day, multiply that by 365. Why is Amazon so good? And they rip off their own people if something is selling, you know, they, they're not very popular for that. But bottom line is they don't lower acquisition cost of a customer. The, the way they not only thrive but thrive is they are able to pay more money to acquire a customer than any other competitor. And that's why they clobber every category. They're a category killer for that reason. So you lower acquisition cost if you're like us, the little guy in Gal, but someone that's a monolith like Amazon, they can pay more to acquire a customer than anyone else and therefore they dominate every category they get involved in. Does that make sense?

100%. It does, yeah. And what you're describing, it sounds like, and I know you have a whole framework for this, but for folks that don't enjoy selling or just not feeling like they're the natural at selling or having in the, you know, being in those conversations, this should lower the you know, the barrier to entry, I guess, for them to start having these conversations because they're talking to people that they want to talk to. They're not talking, they're not trying to convince minds or anything like that. They're. They're obliterating objections. I know that's something that you speak of often.

Yeah, you've listened to my stuff because no one else. I haven't heard anyone else say that that's good. Most people can't pronounce obliteration.

I've been practicing my tongue twisters lately. But maybe speak into those folks and honestly, we're some of those folks. Just a simple framework to work with.

Okay. So I believe in storytelling because ever since we were younger, I think we're grown up kids, right. But ever since we were younger, stories and narratives have been a part of the fabric of how we learned. And the story has a beginning, middle and an end. Socrates invented the three act play. And so there's always conflict, there's always a resolution. Sometimes there's not. But the great movies and the great TV series, there's always some sort of a resolution and a hero's journey, whether it's, you know, the Hobbit series or if it's Star wars or whatever. Right. So I believe in storytelling and seeding through storytelling because people can't disagree with a story. So when I'm teaching marketing, I tell a very simple story that happened in 1972. I was eight years old and I was a Cub Scout. And I'll give you the theme and the moral of the story and that is how to become a world class marketer. So that's the theme. Now I don't say that in the beginning because it kind of gives it away, but that's the moral. So here's the story and it takes about 300 seconds. So. May I?

Sure, please.

I have a 20 minute version as well. But you know, my mom would be yawning right now if she heard that. So. And it involves my mom. So I'm with my dad, George, and I'm at Allendale, Allendale elementary. That's where I was. And it was 1972. I was eight years old and I'm a Cub Scout now. Cub Scout is a mini Boy Scout and that's far cry from Eagle Scout, which is the highest level. And I'm sure there's other scouts other than that. And we were there, we're sitting in this auditorium and it was a grammar school I attended and I was there with my next door neighbor. Billy. And we're listening to a pitch by one of the parents who's so excited because they're going to have a fundraiser. And they're selling these boxes of chocolate chip cookies, which are $1, this is 1972, that's kind of like $5 today. And what happens is the chocolate chip cookie manufacturer, they make 50 cents off of the box, and then the troupe makes 50 cents. And then that way we go on all these excursions and we go on field trips and things like that. So now we have a competition. And if you're a parent and you're listening or watching this, you know that anytime your child, no matter how old, they have a fundraiser, they don't sell shit. You're the one selling all the stuff in the office to your family, to your friends, whatever, right? They just say, hey, hey, mom, dad, you know, sell it for me. That wasn't me because my dad was an engineer. Terrible salesperson. My mom was a teacher, and she said, I'm not going to do that. So I listened to it. And the bottom line was whoever sold the most boxes of chocolate chip cookies for that particular troupe at Allendale elementary in 1972 would go to Disneyland and they take a friend with them. So I did a joint venture. I went to my buddy Billy. I said, hey, Billy, if you win, you take me. If I win, I'll take you. Deal. And we said, deal. And, you know, we hugged back. Then it was pre Covid, right? And so we went off and we had our own technique. So here's what Billy did. He's my next door neighbor. So right away, without any plan, like most marketers, without zero plan, he said, I'm just going to talk to as many people as I can. Not qualified, not disqualified. And he rode his bike and he went down Oak Knoll Avenue, which is in Pasadena, California, where we live, and then down Hill Avenue, then Oakland Avenue, then Madison Avenue. Not in New York City, but in Pasadena. Actually, Einstein lived on Oakland Avenue at one time because Caltech is right there. California Institute of Technology, right? Kind of like the MIT of the West Coast. And so he went to like 50 homes, and he'd knock on the door and they open the door, he doesn't know who's behind there, right? So there's kind of. There's a guy in a, like a wife beater T shirt. He's unemployed, he's drinking a beer. He goes, what? And Billy says, hey, would you buy a box of chocolate chip cookies? Boom. The door gets slammed shut. Of course, Billy now needs therapy. He goes to the next house. Would you like to buy a box of chocolate chip cookies? No answer. He goes to the third house. There's a little girl, like six years old. It's summer, right? Would you like to buy a chocolate chip cookie? She goes, yeah. Do you have any money?

No.

Disqualified. So finally, after 50 homes, he sold five boxes. And so he comes back and he sold. I sold five boxes. I said, you lost five pounds riding your bike. You sold five boxes? I got to pull all the weight now. He goes, yeah. I mean, they didn't want to buy. I said, all right, fine. So now I took it upon myself and I'm very loyal friend, and so I want to go to Disneyland. I've been there before, but not with friends, just with relatives. And that's boring, right? So we live in pasadena. It's about 45 minutes away. I just wanted to go with Billy because it would be super fun and no parents, you know, just.

Wow.

Even better.

That was cool, right? So then I had a plan. So I'm gonna do a quick pop quiz. So I had this box, and it had a GROSS, which is 144 boxes of chocolate chip cookies. And my mom took her book and we went to a store. Now, I wanted to get people who were already in the position to buy. There was already traffic. So I know that store must have paid money to get people into that parking lot. So I'm not going to tell you what kind of store it was. But did I get people on the way in or did I pitch them on the way out? What do you think, guys?

I think you were pitching them on the way in.

Why is that?

Because they haven't purchased yet.

Yes, they haven't purchased yet. So I'm getting wallet share before they even go in. I'm poaching ethically. They don't even let you do this these days, right? So then was I in front of a hardware store? Was I in front of a drugstore or in front of a grocery store? Which one?

Grocery store. Interesting. Grocery store.

Not organic.

Matt, what do you think? There was no organic back then. It was 1972, man.

Yeah, this is also pre dispensaries too. So you probably weren't in front of a dispensary, but grocery store would be my guess.

Grocery store. You know, we had private dispensaries back then.

I'm sure you did.

I didn't even know what a dispensary was.

So then I'm getting it in front of a grocery store where they May buy cookies. Right? Now I have to make an offer. So I got my target audience, okay? They're pre qualified. They're definitely pre qualified. I've disqualified hammer and nails people at hardware. I've disqualified all the shampoo and the prescription people at the drugstore. Back then, grocery stores didn't have drugstores in the back like they do today, right? And so this was in front of, I don't know what the name was. It may have been like an Albertsons or a Safeway in California. Not sure what it was. So I stood in front. Now I had to make an offer. So I dressed up in my Catch Me if youf can uniform, right? Like a, like old school Leo DiCaprio as Frank Abignelli, right? And I'm. I'm actually a Cub Scout though. So I got my little thing and you know, I thought I looked handsome, you know, combed my hair and all this stuff. So now I gotta make an offer, okay? Now the offer I'm gonna make is not to sell one frickin box. I want to sell five. Because if I go for five, I can downsell them to three. If they say no to three, maybe I'll get one, right? So in one sale I can outsell Billy just standing in the way of traffic, which Internet and digital marketers do. Right now all they're doing is channeling demand, okay? So I stood there, now I have to make an offer. Now I hadn't read Bob Cialdini's book Influence. I just met with him a couple days ago at a Mastermind. And.

The principle of contrast is what I utilized as an 8 year old, but I didn't realize I was utilizing that. I just want to go to frickin Disneyland, right? So Billy's not even there. It's just me and my mom is reading a book on a bench nearby. So I'm standing out there, I don't have my product in front of me. The product is near the bench because, you know, I don't want to give it away, right? Because they'll avoid me. So someone's coming in and I say, sir? He says, yeah, you're a cute kid. Thank you. Would you like to donate $50 to the Cub Scouts of America, sir? Now 50 bucks is $500 in 1972.

Big ask.

And he looks at me, taps me on the head, he says, no. And then I give him my puppy dog eyes. Please her $50, that's it. It's tax deductible, right? Now I knew that they would say What? Yes or no? I knew that they would say no.

Heck no.

I wasn't rejected. You see the difference? I knew they would say no. And I went for a second close and I knew they would say no. Then I tugged on whatever they were wearing, right? And I say, sir, would you at least buy five boxes of chocolate chip cookies so I can go to Disneyland with my friend Billy?

And one out of three said yes to five boxes.

One out of three. Wow.

One out of three.

Of the people who said no, I downsold them to three and I usually sold one. Within two hours, all 144 were gone. I was there for three hours. I was doing fricking IOUs and my poor mom had to drop them off at their homes and shit like that. It was amazing. We went to Disneyland. And here's the most incredible thing. Every person in the Cub Scout troop knew what I did. Everyone. And the next year, because we had one more year, I was nine.

I did the same thing. Billy was knocking on doors, Jeez. Everyone else was doing the shit that they were doing. And then we went again. Because of me.

No. Isn't that.

Ironic that a lot of our colleagues and Internet marketers and digital marketers, even human beings, they don't do the things that work. They want to try something original and originality. Said Rosser Reeves, who is the inventor of the unique selling proposition. Many people don't even know who he is, but he lived during the era of David Ogilvy.

And Cohn and Belding and all these great marketers in the old days, Leo Burnett out of Chicago, they lived in that era, Madison Avenue. He said, the most dangerous word in marketing and advertising is originality because it's something unique. You're not re channeling demand, you're creating demand and you can't do that. So Billy was creating demand by going door to door. I was just re channeling and said, buy from me before you go in the store. And we went to Disneyland not once, but twice. Not because I was smart, it was just common sense. And so that's a story now when I say, what does that mean to you? That means anyone can market, okay? If you got married, you're a marketer. If you've been divorced, you're a marketer. If you got kids, you're a frickin marketer, right? If you got a job, you're a marketer, okay? You do marketing all the time. You just don't call it that. You're selling all the time, you just don't call it that. You had to make the sale to get married and to get divorced and to have kids. You had to do that sale. Male or female, there's a sale there. There's an exchange. No pun intended.

Right.

So unfortunately, most people don't look at it that way. So by telling a story like that, it softens it. And my target audience are coaches and consultants who hate to sell the best. That's a great, great target audience because there's so many of them.

Right.

But they can tell stories. I can teach them how to tell stories. And so that really, there's no rocket science to it. But that's the angle that I teach on my podcast and that's what I wanted to impart to your listeners and viewers.

It's beautiful. And just a shout out to your podcast. It's called All Selling Aside and I love it. The fact that it's very deliberate and just the quick little man love for your podcast there, it's very deliberate. And I love the notes too as well. And it's just the show notes, but the fact that, and I know this is a way of teaching how you learn, accelerate learning. So there's a lot of modalities that you can actually ingest the content. So definitely check out All Selling aside. Don't worry, you're not going to poach folks from us. It's an addition.

You don't even have an opt in there, so just go ahead and steal it. Well, I just used it as a legacy. I don't make any money from it. Yeah, but it's a legacy statement. Because I'd rather not write books. I'd rather just use my voice because I'm very auditory in my learning style. And so I enjoy listening to a book, then reading it, then listening again. And that's where I accelerate my learning the most.

Yeah, there's a great episode and we'll probably link that in the show notes, our show notes to that exact episode. I was listening to that yesterday. I was like, matt, you need it. But going back to the story, I mean, it just. Yeah, there's a framework. It sounds like that you're working all of your stories. So it sounds like you have a lot of analogies as part of the framework. Obviously, the three part story structure sounds like a big piece of it. You're building things like contrast, influence principles throughout it. Can you walk us through kind of how you structure that and how you think of these things?

Yeah, sure. So I'll tell you a story that made me $14 million in five years.

Sounds pretty sexy. Let's do it.

So Larry King called me the Larry King of teleseminars. If you're a millennial, you may not know what a teleseminar is. If you're a millennial, you probably don't even know what a pencil is.

An eraser.

Yeah.

You don't know what the cassette is. You definitely don't know what an eight track is. And who knows what a record is. And long playing record, Right. But back in the day, we had teleseminars where there was a bridge line and we would be on audio and you have to speak visually. So I wouldn't say on a teleseminar, look at this. And I'm holding up my phone, I would say in my right hand, I'm holding up my iPhone, and there's a message here that I'm going to read to you. Are you ready? And everyone would say, yes, yes. So I was the first to use teleseminars with Facebook in 2007. So they would type in Facebook, right? On a Facebook, they didn't have members, member pages and shit like that. It was just all one. It was crazy. It was a mishmash. But they would be on the teleseminar and they'd be typing, you know, like kids, Right? So we were the first to do that. And that's engagement. So in 2000, I thought, I'm gonna start teaching teleseminars. And I had a course called Teleseminar Secrets that my good friend who lives walking distance from me now, his name is John Reese.

Oh, yeah.

Many people don't know who John Reese is anymore, but he had the first million dollar day in 2006. I had one in December the same year. But he's remembered because he did it in August, which really pisses me off, you know, but he's a brilliant mind, much smarter than I am. And he bought that domain for 600 bucks and he gifted it to me. Tell the seminar secret. So this story was my origin story. So in the year 2000, and let me give you the framework of a great story. You end with why. So Simon Sinek says, start with why. Not with a story. Not with a story. Simon's smarter than I am. But with a story, you end with why. So the formula is when and where. That's step one. So when was it? And where was it? I told you is 1972. And Allendale elementary in Pasadena, California. Now you have situational awareness where visually you're going, even if you don't know where Pasadena is Southern California. People know where California is.

You have context.

Yeah, there's a context. Okay, then after. When and where the step two is, who is involved? Well, it was Billy Spangler and Alex Mandosian and my dad and this and the troupe. So that's step number two. When and where takes just seconds, who takes a little longer. Then the third step is what happened. And that's 80% of the story. So I told you, Billy went door to door. He had the Life Beater T shirt, guys coming up, drinking Budweiser, whatever. I mean, you got the whole thing going, right?

Right. Yeah.

And so you know, Matt looks like he's duck hunting tomorrow. So he's kind of like. Like that. You could be. You'd be drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon.

Right. How do you know his stereotype?

Right.

You just met him.

Or hunting. Hunting deer, whatever. Right. So. So I told the whole story with what? That's 80% of it. Right. And then everything, like I'm tugging, I'm saying, hey, it's $50, tax deductible, blah, blah, blah. My mom is holding, you know, she's reading a book. All those little details matter, right? Because what happens is you're engaging their heart. If you win their heart. And that's what stories do. The head follows. So they don't look at you as selling them, they just look at the story and they're going, oh, yeah, makes sense. And so they may have a different why they're going to buy, but you can't go wrong with a story because you're not really debating on the why. Everyone is rowing in the same direction. So then the fourth step is, how was it resolved? How did it resolve? Well, how it was resolved is I won. I sold the Most. I did IOUs. And why is it relevant to you? It's relevant to you because you want to disqualify people automatically by not being in front of a hardware store. Pre qualify them before they go inside and do the same thing again and again. When it works.

Yeah.

So it's when and where. It's who was involved, what happened is 80% of it. How did it resolve? And then why is it relevant and important to you, the viewer, the listener, the reader? So far, so good.

It's perfect. Yes.

So here's the $14 million story. So I'd be on stage. I've told this story 300 times. So it was a warm afternoon in the year 2000, and it was October 26th. That's when there I was on the fifth floor of Mount Sinai Hospital on the Upper west side of New York City. Some people call it Spanish Harlem. And that's where. Right. So when and where? And I'm looking at my then wife, Amy, who and my newborn son, who had a conehead at the time, and I was shocked. He looked like a Martian. Right. If you have kids. Because he had just been born the day before and he had a little beanie over it.

Right.

And I looked at them, and they were laying there exhausted because my. My former wife Amy just had 17 hours of labor. Now, that's who.

Now, I. I had a dilemma. That's the conflict. The dilemma was Gabriel came into the world three weeks early, and I had a teleseminar with a bunch of certified public accountants, enrolled agents who prepare taxes. A really tough crowd. It took me three weeks with postcards just to get them on that teleseminar. This is the year 2000. I mean, everyone's getting these AOL CDs, you know. Please join us. Right. So none of that shit was working? No. Internet marketing, right? I mean, barely. You could order something online. It took at least two minutes, you know, spinning, Right?

That's right.

And so most people don't realize how lucky we are today with bandwidth, but I remember back then, you had busy singles, you couldn't even go online.

Yep.

So I had a dilemma. Okay. There was a teleseminar. He came in three weeks early. This is now what? So I looked at my chair. That's my bed. Poetic justice. The universe, God, whatever deity you want to think of, we don't give birth as men, so we have to suffer that night if we're going to serve our spouses and our kids. So I looked at my bed, which was a chair. Didn't look very comfortable. And then there was a phone. Old school, had buttons, had a cord. And it was one of these big things that weighed about, you know, £5.

Right?

Again, millennials, you have no idea what I'm talking about.

That's okay.

And so I looked at the phone, the chair, the chair, the phone, the phone, the phone, the chair. I chose the phone. This is what. So I thought I could only take it in the only private room of the recovery room. And so I pulled it. Thank God it had a long cord. And there was one room there. I opened the door and on started with an R, and it had another R there. What do you think that is?

Restroom.

Yes, that's correct.

So you're sitting on the pot the whole time now.

Time out. Do you see what I'm doing. I'm dialoguing with you. I don't just tell the story. So when I'm in front of people, I'm dialoguing and they're getting engaged, and that's what gets them engaged. I'm selling. And what I'm selling here is teleseminars, and you can monetize them. That's what I'm selling, ultimately. So I took the phone, I put it underneath the do, I shut the door. And for the first. This is where I got all the ladies in the audience. For the first time in human history, I put down the toilet seat. We love Alex. Oh, we love you, Alex. And the guys are looking like, why? So anyway, I sat there and just huddled. I put the phone on my lap and I dialed into the bridge line. And if you don't know what a bridge line is, and they didn't back in the day, it's where there's at least 1,000 people who can be there. There were about 550, which is a lot. I got them all through postcards and direct mail. Right. There's no, there's no. People don't have email addresses back then. And so I called and I go, how's everyone going? And, you know, it's. It's unmuted and everyone's going, yeah. And they knew me. So then I muted them, I said, let's get started. And so I'm teaching them how to turn their schedule A tax returns into schedule C, which is a personal return, into a professional return, a business return, which they make more money. That's what I'm selling. And I have a course that's nearly $500. And that's what I'm ultimately going to sell. After an hour, no one's doing it. And so I thought, you know, I could make maybe six or seven thousand dollars for one hour, which back then was a ton. This is the era of $20 ebooks again. Millennials have no concept of what it was like back then. And so I'm doing my thing. Everything's going great. I can't believe I'm pulling it off. My son and my then wife are snoring in the other room. And I'm quiet. I'm in the restroom. It's kind of echoing, but it's okay. And I'm there. And then something terrible happens now. Timeout. This is still what. Something terrible happens. Pregnant pause.

Out of nowhere, I had noticed there was this massive speaker on the wall. It was the size of a giant woofer. The magnet must have been £5 by itself. And I hear visiting hours will end in 20 minutes. It was 9:40, right? Which was 6:40 Pacific Time because it started at 6 Pacific and 9 East Coast. Visiting hours will end in 20 minutes. So I took the phone, I stuck it under my butt, right? Little did these 500, you know, CPAs enrolled agents know that the phone was between the cracks of my ass, right? Trying to muffle the sound.

Yeah.

And I pulled it off. I thought, damn, what the hell is up with that, man? I gotta go, I'm gonna talk to that lady downstairs, right? Because I knew she was, she's at the reception desk. So I just keep going. I go, I don't know what that is, but anyway, let's keep going because I'm not telling him what happened, right? 10 minutes later. Visiting hours will end in 10 minutes. I'm done. Busted. Five minutes later. Visiting hours will End in five minutes. Worst Brooklyn accent you can think of. Maybe Queens, I don't know. There's a two minute frickin warning for visiting. I was at Mount Sinai Hospital, right? So finally I just felt defeated. I was so pissed at the woman who was saying it. She eventually became a great friend of mine and I would visit her.

Because of the way this ended. So at the very end, it's about an hour into, I said, ladies and gentlemen, forgive me, I tried to pull it off, but I have a confession to make. Time out. Always be transparent on your teleseminars. That's what I'm telling the audience, right? I have a great marketing strategy. Ladies and gentlemen, it's three words. Write this down. Tell the truth. I go, oh, okay. Time in. So I said, my wife and my newborn son came into the world yesterday. 17 hours of labor, I haven't got much sleep, I look horrible. Thank God for the teleseminar. I have a face for radio. Anyway, and I'm here to sell you something, if you want it, great, but here's where you go. And I'm just so embarrassed. This is so unprofessional. I'm sitting on the frickin toilet. You know, on the fifth floor I have a private room, it cost me extra money and my wife tells me that we have to pay $250 an hour for a lactate consultant. Just so my son takes the breast because he's not eating. And I told my wife, let him starve until he starts eating. I'm not paying 250 bucks an hour. And I ended up paying 500 bucks because it took two hours to get him to take the boo. Just let him starve. What's up with that shit? These babies near 2000, right? What a grift that was. Anyway, back to the story.

I'm on the phone, I tell them, if you want to buy it, great. If not, no problem. And then I hung up and just defeated. I went back, I stuck it on the commode next to the bed and I slept in my bed. Poor Alex. Where? Here's how it was resolved. So that was what?

Here's how it resolved. Now remember, I'm giving a 90 minute talk selling them a $2,000 course called Teleseminar Secrets, right? This is the way I'm starting. I've already done when and where. I've already done who. I've already done what. Now it's how and why. So far so good.

Yep.

Okay, so let's go. So then the next day I took my new family. We went back to the Upper east side where we had a one bedroom apartment on 63rd Street. We keep coming with you know when and where. It's the 27th of October, the year 2000. And so my then wife and my son are sleeping. Thank God he finally took the boob. It only took two hours. $500 later, right? I said bye bye to the lactate consultant. I gave her the finger on the way out. But that's no problem. No one needs to know that that was pissed. $500 to take the boob, right? So then I go to my computer and I rigged it so that anytime I got an order, and it was much different back then, but when I got an order, it would go ka ching. Because that's the sound of money. Ka ching. Now, some dialects in some countries, because I've spoken on six continents, it's cha ching. So whether it's keqing or cha ching, I said it and I kept hearing Ka ching, Kaching ka ching. I had outlook, right? And that the email came in and I'm looking at all these orders. 497, 497, 497. Ted Nicholas, great marketer, taught me make it a seven. So 497. And I'm looking at what? WTF? What is this? And then I'm thinking, no way, this cannot be the toilet teleseminar I did the night before, right?

No way.

This is the how right now. Time out. Are you there with me right now? Yes, as a storyteller, we are right there. Anyone can do this with this. Because I'm demonstrating. Anyone can do it with this. Formula. So then I looked and I'm looking at some of the comments and saying, alex, I love the presentation. Thank you for telling us the truth. It's such a breath of fresh air. Another one said, congratulations on your new family. Another one said, I have no fricking interest in your offer, but I just bought it because I felt sorry for it, right? I had like a whole array of stuff like that, right? Almost $13,000 in sales now, ladies and gentlemen. Why is this relevant and important to you now? The why? If I can generate almost $13,000 in sales from the toilet of Mount Sinai Hospital the day after my son was born, don't you think I can teach you in the next 80 minutes how you can make one tenth of that from the comfort of your home or office? If you're ready to go, clap your hands and say, I'm ready. Boom. And then we went straight into that, right? So for me, some people say, alex, you're a little woo woo. Great. I'd rather be woo woo and be rich than boo boo and be poor.

Right?

So that's the storytelling formula. It's when and where. It's who, then what happened? That's 80% of it. How did it resolve? And then why is it important and relevant? It has never let me down. And anyone can learn it. I mean, you just have to study it. You get better at. I mean, obviously the first 10 times I told the story, it didn't have all those nuances and details, but after the 20th time, I mean, you know when people are laughing, right? And so I just. I haven't sold anything in Antarctica because penguins don't understand English. But every other continent doesn't matter what language they speak, even if it's translated. They just laugh like seven seconds later because it takes a while to get to them. And, you know, earphones. But that's the story selling formula, and anyone can sell if they use that.

Thank you for making that so clear and full of texture. Like, the whole thing. I mean, I think it had us both just into it, even in the explanations. But all the little details and the textures, they're all relatable to folks, even if they weren't there in the room. They've probably heard or been in a similar situation. They can put themselves in that seat. And it seems like these stories just bring all. Everybody together.

You don't have to sell. Like, every objection was laced in there. Zig Ziglar, the late Zig Ziglar, former mentor, he told more stories than anyone else within a short Time span, he did quite well. Jim Rohn, the late Jim Rohn did the same thing. Brian Tracy, good friend of mine, does the same thing. Jay Abraham, you don't always understand his words because he's.

He is next level.

Yeah, yeah, he's in another. But he tells stories. Jack Canfield made a fortune with Mark Victor Hansen telling stories. So stories are here to stay. But learning how to do it and then using it in the context of selling, that's what the podcast is all about. With all selling aside is seeding through storytelling. And seeds turn into roots, which turns into a trunk, and then branches and leaves and fruit. And inside the fruit, what's inside of an apple? Core more seeds. So that's the back end, right?

I love that analogy too.

Yeah, it's great.

Got anything?

No, I mean, I'm processing it.

I'm blown away by the story. I love it. There's one thing, Alex, that I think you brought. You teased us earlier, and it's been in my mind, it's a coi. So the cost of inaction. Let's close that loop really fast. Sure.

So COI was something I coined because it had to be something oi, right? Because ROI is how people sell. So usually they say, hey, if you pay me 2,000, I'm gonna show you how to make 10,000. So Roi is point B. So if you take an Uber or Lyft, typically, not always, but the computer and the satellite knows where you're at. Okay, Now, I've been in a situation.

Like, where are you?

Okay.

They don't know where you are, but typically they know where you're at.

So all you gotta do is plug.

In point B and that's the ROI of the ride. Are you with me? So the longer the ride, the more it costs. So people sell on roi. There's nothing wrong with selling roi. The challenge is you can't guarantee roi because the client, the customer, the student, the member has to do the work. So I have lots of $30,000 high ticket clients, right. In consulting and coaching. So they say, what's my guarantee for the 30,000? And I looked them straight in the eye and I say, I'm so glad you asked. They said, what is it? I said, you will never see that $30,000 again.

That's my guarantee. You want me to guarantee you're going to make money? I can't guarantee that. I don't know if you're gonna do the work. I can't guarantee. What you've told me is the cost of inaction. You told me you want to make $20,000 a month, and you're making 10 right now. So every month you're losing the opportunity as a result of not making change. $10,000 a month or $120,000 a year. Now, if that's true, you told me. I didn't say that. You told me within three months, you'll get your money back if you do the work. Maybe less, maybe longer. But I'm not going to guarantee you roi. Keep your money, because I have a good reputation. I want relationship capital. I can't guarantee roi. Anyone who does is lying because they can't guarantee that because you have to do the work. But I can't guarantee what you believe your. Your cost of inaction is, which is what COI stands for. They're stuck with point A. Right. And what if that continues for three months, six months? What if it continues for another year? There's an opportunity cost there.

Right.

So they're not actually losing $10,000 a month, but they're losing the opportunity to make the extra 10k because that's what they want, extra each month as a result of not making change. And if they think I can assist them to make that change, then I sell on COI vs ROI basis.

I love that. That's a whole different context and narrative that's going on in their heads when you start to frame it. And that cost of inaction. They're probably so used to the ROI side of things, but. So this reframe almost probably catches people off guard a little bit, and right between the eyes, like, oh, yeah, I have been waiting on this sitting on my hands for far too long.

It is a reframe, and unfortunately, you know, it shouldn't be.

Yeah.

Because who can guarantee roi?

No one.

You really can. There's no. There's no stockbroker who can. Past performance doesn't, you know, guarantee future performance. Right. A teacher can't. You won't get an A grade in this class. Right. So no one can promise roi. Why should we, as marketers lose a reputation and look like. Like we're hucksters and grifters by promising roi. So I promise coi, although it does reframe things, everyone could be selling that way.

Yeah, right, Right.

As a result, you know, there's two questions our people ask our. If they're going to, you know, with people on a webinar or they're going to buy a product, what would happen if you didn't say yes, whatever it is.

Okay.

What would happen if you didn't say yes. And they'll say, I don't know. Well, you know, I wouldn't do this. I wouldn't spend the money. Yeah, something worse than that. Nothing will happen.

Inaction.

You want to still be doing the things you're doing now. Why'd you come to us? Because you have a cost of inaction. How do I know? Because you're here.

Right.

So let me ask you a second question. What could happen if you did say yes? You could not. You will. You could make an extra $10,000 a month like you insisted, and I could be the guide from the side to get you there, but I'm not going to be the sage from the stage because if I were, I wouldn't be consulting you. I'd be on an island that I owned and, you know, just enjoying.

A.

Cold drink and not interacting with other people because I'm an introvert. So I would prefer that. But the could and the would. What would happen if you didn't say yes? What could happen if you did say yes? Tony Robbins sales team has been saying that for 30 years. And so that's a nice little trial close that anyone could do.

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Now, a couple things. I believe you have a little document that you have laminated written. It's on camera here. Explain what that is and how folks can grab that, please.

These are 13 questions in a discovery session. Some people call it a strategy session. I have been doing this since 2006 and it's called the foolproof discovery session script. There are 13 questions and you won't get the laminated version. You get a PDF, I'll send it over to Joe and Matt and then you could forward it. This is worthless. Even though it's made so far, not just me, but my clients and my students. It's made over $117 million in the past seven years that they've reported probably more. Right. And it anticipates rejection. And people don't like to sell because they think they're going to get rejected. You can't get rejected because you don't make the offer unless you know they're absolutely committed. Not interested, but committed. So it's not gonna work unless you work it right. So it's not a promotion. It's an attraction. Set of questions, Socratically, like Socrates. And it's my gift. If you utilize it and if it works, reach out to me and let me know because I'm wired for acknowledgement. I don't get it from my mom I'd love to get it from students.

Yeah, Very cool.

Yeah, we'll make sure that's linked up in some form in the show notes. So if you're watching this on YouTube or listening on Spotify or itunes or wherever, go to the Show Notes page. We'll make sure you get connected with that. And all selling aside is the podcast. Everybody needs to go listen to that one as well.

And question on that, is there an episode or two that you would recommend folks to go? Because I know you have a lot of selling. It's about selling. Are there a couple that stand out as a good starting point for folks?

It's in the first 10. Three reasons why people don't buy.

Okay, three reasons why people Don't Buy. And I'm not going to ruin it. But the titles are very brief so that they don't run off the page. And that's one I would look at. Perfect. For sure.

Cool. Okay, so we'll link that in the show notes and go leave Alex a comment after a takeaway that you've had on that episode. Help him out. And thank you so much, Alex. You've been just so damn cool.

This has been amazing. I've been leaned in the whole time. Just.

This is the least of everything. Heard him talk, so.

Thank you.

Well, look, my mom lives in Pasadena, California still, so if you want to tell her how the experience was, maybe she'll finally believe that I don't do anything that's illegal.

I'll go drive up and let her know that you're all right.

Just let her know you can always.

Link her to this episode. I mean, we'll love the download, no problem.

But thank you for having me in. A very special deep bow and tip of the hat goes to Jackson Bourne, who got us here.

Definitely. Yeah. Thank you, Jack. And thank you, Alex. Talk soon. Bye bye.

Bye bye.

Dude, that was a pretty good one.

That was. Slow down on the fade.

Let's.

Let's let it linger a little bit. This is a good beat. I like this beat. We gotta have a little marination phase after taking in all those stories from Alex. That was. I mean, Matt, you really took it in. You didn't really say anything. You could talk while you're mixing. You know DJ Matt. DJ Matt, like, doesn't know how to talk when he's handling a volume.

I was watching the countdown timer on that beat, so I knew exactly when it was gonna do the wook woo at the end.

You're like the new dead mouse. Look at you.

I am.

All right, now you're just showing off.

That was pretty good.

All right, which one was the pad? Which one was Joe?

Yeah, anyone can guess. We'll write in and let us know. It's gonna be a hot topic. I know.

Anyway. Different dude.

All right, tell me about Alex. I want to hear from you because I didn't really hear from you too much because there was a lot of.

Yeah, the two sentences that you said on that episode were two more than those two sentences.

They were. So tell me about your thoughts, though.

With the four sentences were more than the two sentences that I said.

Okay, I'll talk about it then.

Yeah. So I really liked his storytelling formula. Like, the way he broke it down like he was telling the story, and then he was like, and here's where I am in this story formula. And then he went back to telling the story, and he's like, and then here's where I am in the story formula. And so he was telling the story and then pausing and then breaking down where he was in his formula. And I thought, like, it was just really, really cool to actually hear it in action and then also have him explaining, as the story was going, what he was doing in the story, like, in the context of his framework that he laid out.

I mean, his. Yeah, I feel like the story structure in general and the way he taught it is probably the easier ways of learning how to tell a story effectively and one that you can. I mean, you could tell a story, like, use that structure for everything. And. Yeah, and I love the fact that he is. He's all about teaching this to people who don't like selling. And he's like, that's most people. So, you know, for us, I know, like, that's not our sweet spot either, is, you know, natural salespeople. But at the end of the day, we are. Everyone is. We're all marketers, salespeople. And this just kind of gave us a, you know, a nice framework and more tools.

Yeah. Well, the way he quote unquote sells is kind of how we would sell, but we wouldn't probably say we were selling. I guess he wouldn't technically, either. But, like, we tell stories which theoretically gets people wanting to buy from us, but we never go for the clothes. Right. And basically what he was doing was throughout the story, he was just explaining to him or explaining to people, you know, this is what you're gonna miss out on if you don't work with me. But he never goes for the clothes. You know, he never goes for the, like. So Are you ready to buy right now? You know, it's almost like he does it in a way where at the end they're just kind of like, almost, I need to work with you. Based on what you just told me, I need that in my life.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. I wonder. That's actually a good. That's a good point. Yeah. Like, I wonder what the call to action is, if there is one. Or it's obviously triggered probably from someone after they go through the why, which is the last step. It's like, okay, now they know why they need to do this or why it can work for them or whatever.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I wonder what happens after that. But I mean, he's kind of just guiding them to that point. And at that point, I think he kind of said, it's like a layup.

Yeah. It gets to the point where it's almost like their idea to want to work with you.

Right.

So he was telling the story of him sitting on the toilet in the hospital and. And on the phone. And then he was telling that story during a sales presentation. And at the end of the story, he said, if I can do it from a hotel bathroom, don't you think you can do it as well? You know? So that was sort of like his kind of call to action was like, put it back on them. Like, doesn't. If I can do it that way, don't you think you can do it?

That's his question he posed to the audience. Yeah. No, that's really cool. I love it. And then the other thing, the cost of inaction, because I heard him talk about that in other podcast and.

I think it is a reframe because it's not used a lot. If it is used, it's not the primary thing. Typically it's a. We'll guarantee you're going to make this certain amount ROI from this. But the cost of inaction and using that as actually a relating thing, something that someone can maybe to that story. It just seems like for objections, taking that approach is probably a good one to think, rather than, this is what you will earn. No, this is what you're currently missing out on by just sitting on the sidelines and not doing anything.

Yeah, yeah.

Or overthinking, you know, doing too much in your mind, maybe.

I just. I just love how he pretty much speaks in stories. It was like every question that came up, he was like, let me tell you a story. And then he would answer the question through a story versus direct answer. And I feel like the way he was Doing that just makes you understand what he's saying better as well.

Clarifies.

Yeah. Instead of him saying, like, this is gonna get you X roi so go do it. He'll tell a story of somebody else getting xoroi so that you can, in your mind, sort of picture yourself in that person's shoes. Right.

Relating.

Part of what he's having you do is picture the place and the time in your mind as he's telling it. So you're there with him in that story. And I just feel like doing it that way. Like your mind is starting to open the possibilities. You're starting to see, like, you know, you're going through the motions with him. And going through the motions makes it feel like, okay, I can do this. Because maybe in your mind's eye you saw yourself going through it, through the process of him telling the story. You know, as he was telling that story, I literally was picturing him in a bathroom stall, hunched over with a frickin phone in his hand.

I was picturing me in the hospital room when my wife was giving birth. Like I was picturing that exact room. So when. Yeah, when he was like the only other room in that thing, you know, and it was R and R restroom and already I was there in my mind. I'm like, oh, okay, there I am. I'm sitting on the pot now. Oh, phone. Well, didn't have one of those, but yeah, at least not like that.

Yeah, he might have had like the Zack Morris phone from Saved by the Bell, like the big gray one. Pull the thing out.

Yeah, no, that was, that's. And then so just I guess a little recap here and then. And then we'll prompt you on where to get the notes. So basically his story structure, Alex, is the whole. It starts with when, where, and really contexting that. And then it moves to who is involved and then what happened and then how was it going to be resolved or how was it resolved and then lastly, why is it relevant to you? So when, Where? Who? What? How, why? Yes, if you could just memorize that. I mean, just think about. You could start thinking along the framework of a storyline in a lot of scenarios. Maybe just like that could almost be a good journal prompt at the end of the day. Like think of one cool story from your day. You're like, all right. Or you know, some experience you had and you're like, I could probably make a cool story as like practice.

Yeah.

You know, and then you could probably just like practice with this and just relate. And then I don't know, you could probably use those stories in your marketing if you wanted. Or in your copywriting.

Yeah, no, I love that. It was funny. I was actually watching a video last night on YouTube and it was Casey Neistat and Peter McKinnon, two of my favorite YouTubers. They've done a few sort of crossover videos, and one of them was Casey breaking down how he makes videos in the three act structure. You know, you've got a beginning, a middle, and an end.

That was a good one. I watched that one.

Yeah. And he talks about how, like, you know, you got to set up a story and then you got to introduce some sort of conflict. You got to introduce something that you know is going wrong or some issue or something, and then you've got to resolve it by the end. You know, he doesn't. He's not specifically trying to sell you on something, but like just his video formula on YouTube follows almost this exact same method.

Well, think about, engage. Like when you're just making a YouTube video in general using the same structure.

Well, yeah. And you do that like on camera. Like you think about a video. Right, right. The when and where. There's always an establishing shot.

Right now. Yeah. You're not just doing audio like he was Alex. You're now multi sensory.

Yeah, yeah. So you always have that establishing shot in a video. There's always a shot of like, if they're in like an abandoned warehouse, they're gonna do a wide shot on the abandoned warehouse and they're gonna show a shot of like maybe the door. And then they're gonna show a shot of what action is happening in there. So you're in your mind going, okay, I know where they are now.

So pause there. Yeah. And to say what you're saying, like on picture.

Yeah.

You'd have an establishing shot and probably like, oh, it was March 2020. Yeah. When the world shut down or something.

If that's pertinent information, they'll put the time like on the screen.

Well, that's the when. So I'm just saying it's the where and when you win and where. So you can do that, like you said, in about 30 seconds.

Yeah.

Boom. That's your establishing moment during a story. Or like a YouTube video.

Yeah.

Or freaking webinar. Like the same thing.

Yep.

It's just a story, everything.

And then like the who is involved. They're going to start to introduce the characters and show you the people and.

Then sidekicks, what happened.

There's some sort of conflict. You know, one of the Videos I saw with Casey Neistat where they were breaking it down. They. He started, like, on his roof of his building, and it started with, like a zoomed out shot of the roof, and then it zoomed in on him, and he was flying his drone around. He's like, this camera's great. And then the drone crashed, and it was like, on this rooftop, below his rooftop, and he could see it. So that just introduced a conflict, and he had to figure out, okay, my drone's down there. I'm up here. I have no way of getting down there. How do I get it? And then he starts going into his toolboxes in his office and starts flipping through gadgets and stuff, and he puts together, like a little fishing line kind of thing to try to reach down and grab his. His drone, you know, and then it. Eventually he gets the drone up and the video is resolved, and that's the whole story, and it's in. And I think the point to that being, you know, a, all of those elements are in these videos. But B, you can literally tell a story about any sort of random aspect of your day and turn it into. There's a story in everything.

And probably it could be like a very. It could be a story about losing a paperclip, but as long as the journey in the arc is there and you have a lesson and all this stuff in there that's relatable, then. Yeah, that could be your popular YouTube video. How I found that paper clip.

Yeah, there's actually one Peter McKinnon video. It was like a contest that he was running in the video.

Basically, it was about a guy who couldn't remember his password to log onto his computer. And the guy made a whole five minute, very cinematic video around forgetting his password. And it was a phenomenal video.

That's what I'm saying. Like, it's almost like it'd be fun to take a boring story and try to make it really fucking engaging.

Yeah.

Like, just really, like, establish, like, do all the. And I'm thinking, like, a video.

Yeah.

YouTube video, just for shits and giggles.

Yeah. Yeah.

Or like, I'm looking at this camera and, like, there's the camera lens, cover. Yeah. It's like, where did it go? We've been podcasting all day long, and we don't want this beautiful camera to be scratched the lens. There's a story in everything.

There's a story in everything.

Let's do something. Send your favorite story ideas to us or maybe boring experiences, and maybe we'll try to craft A story out of it.

Yeah.

No, don't do that.

If you want, you can do it, but we might not craft a story out of it.

We'll craft them from our own boring times throughout the day. Or interesting.

You could go use Conversion AI, have it give you an idea for a story, and then you write your story around what Conversion AI tells you to write a story around, and then see if their story is better or your story's better.

Well, I think we have a redirect to Conversion AI which would actually help fund this show's production and marketing efforts. And I'm making up this link on the fly, but it's going to work.

So we'll have to make this.

Okay, got it. Conversion AI. If you have not used this yet. Yes. You can basically have it create the boring story or the concept of the boring story for you and actually write the dang thing for you. Or at least get 80, 85% of the way there. Yeah, you know, it gets the ball moving. But yeah, let's, let's. Oh, we're going to use the Hustle andflowchart, sorry, hustleandflowchart.com conversion. If you go there, go check this thing out because we have a subscription to it. It's like, like the decked out lifetime thing.

I'm hoping it's not pointing to something else already.

We'll make sure that link works.

Okay, good. It's not.

Hustleandfluidchart.com conversion. If you're anything at all interested in how this AI stuff can actually help you with copywriting and maybe storytelling, because it does actually write stories. This wasn't even made to be a pitch, but it's totally freaking awesome. And it could help you actually with the story arc if you just like, it can help you kind of craft probably each section of it.

Yeah, well, I mean, it can give you like a rough idea of a story and then you could go in and polish it up.

Sure. Yeah. It gets you like 80% of the way there. Like Joe Kearns, our email badass. Yeah, yeah, that's basically what he said.

So, yeah, we are affiliates of it. Hustleandflowchart.com conversion that would help support the show. Another thing that helps support the show is Easy Webinar.

That's our sponsor of this wonderful show and they are go to partners and preferred choice of a webinar application, a SaaS, if you will, that will help you execute webinars, which are basically just containers for a beautiful story that usually does some selling within the process. So Easy Webinar basically handles all the tech and all the automation stuff that you don't want to set up. And it helps you design each step along the way during the journey, which is basically another story you're taking them through. We're all on a journey, right?

We're all on a journey.

It's all a big story. What does this mean? What's the why at the end of this?

Why are we here?

Why? Why? Well, I'll tell you the why behind.

This shout out Easy Webinar.

That's right. That's why we're here. So thank you Easy Webinar for supporting this show.

We appreciate you longest standing sponsor and.

We love you for an amazing, fun friend.

Yes.

Casey Zman. That is Easy Webinar. I guess we can be friends too.

Yeah, we're friends.

Inanimate object. You. You. Sassy, sassy sass. You.

Yes. Go to EasyWebinar.com hustle. You can see how sassy it is.

Yes. And what are they going to get when they go to that link?

A discount?

Why or what? What is it? Tell me more. Why should we go?

Do you want me to tell you a story about Easy Webinar?

No, because we've already gone way too far. I just want to wrap it up free. Easy Webinar is sick. You're gonna get a fat discount. If you're interested in this, you're getting somewhere 30 to something more.

Somewhere between 1 and 100% off.

Yeah, that's right. That's a safe bet. So go there. Easywebinar.com hustle. That way those guys can see you came from us and you benefit because you don't have to pay as much. Yes. So go get that. Easywebinar.com hustle. Of course. Get the beautiful flow notes. Guides the flow notes. We have a professional note taker that just, just pours her heart and soul into making these notes. The best thing in the world. Yes. Since sliced bread.

Yeah.

But that's not really ever been the best thing.

Yeah. I feel like there's things that have come that are better than sliced bread.

That's a big deal though. A lot of people have consumed bread that have been sliced by that invention. So we're just all this to say is sue, you're doing a, a damn good job. Keep it up. And you should get these notes that sue helped us craft over@flowchartgroup.com, but you only have two weeks of getting those notes. Yes. Because they have to go away. Yeah.

And you also get the benefit of joining our awesome community Facebook group too. So flowchartgroup.com, go do that and plug.

In your email address if you would like the free action guides@flowchart group.com.

Anything else match?

Nope.

Cool.

Okay, bye. Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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