Amish Shah — How Businesses Can Implement The RBMTO Framework

Welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your hosts, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to another episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. And we're on location today. On location. This is Joe Fear. Got Matt Wolf over here. And this is. This is cool. We feel like Joe Rogan or something. We're like around, you know, a table. Yeah, yeah. So we got a Misha. Here he goes. We go way back, probably five, six years. Ish or so, work together in various ways. But I feel like this guy, he's. He's. He's well known, but also not well known and depends on the market, I guess, you know, but I don't even know where to start with the stuff you've done, dude, but like in the last, just five years alone, but even before that you did some monster things, but yeah. Welcome to the show, dude.

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having us.

You're in my office. Sorry. Thanks for coming.

Pretty much, dude. Yeah, no, like this office is like. Cause you start. Where'd you start?

I guess we rent this place out. By the way.

Yeah.

There'll be a little bill coming to.

You by the hour. By the minute.

Yeah. No, by the second, actually. Damn.

All right.

This will be the shortest podcast in history.

I know, right? And we're done. Good seeing you, man. Let's go to lunch now. No, tell us like a quick intro. I don't know how you intro yourself to people normally.

Well.

Just an entrepreneur. I mean, I've been doing it for. I've been a full line, full time online entrepreneur for almost 14 years, as crazy as that sounds. So I've been doing it since pretty much the early 2000s, just kind of experimenting, playing. I've built and sold many different companies before. I've built a lot of companies that have failed before.

We all have.

Yeah.

Something.

And I think what's really interesting about what I think I've kind of figured out is it's usually like unconventional growth. So I'm really good at like finding something that no one is doing or no one doing that well and then getting into that market and then exploiting it and like scaling it as really fast.

And so like you've always done that, like.

Yeah, like every business. For four businesses, I've taken over $1 million in the first, like year to year and a half. So it's like pretty wild that I'm. I just, I feel like I have a knack for marketing, maybe of just digital marketing and so some unconventional growth results.

That, that I was talking about is that we did that one launch many, many, many years ago. It was the software service. I actually was. When I got started, I was doing affiliate marketing.

Right. That's where it started.

That's where it all started. And not even just affiliate marketing, but like everything. Yeah, I built the websites, I did the coding, I did the graphics, I did the. You name and opt in boxes and like did everything myself.

But. You hacker?

Yeah. And I had a full time job, so I was just trying to get my way out. That was the goal. Like, like the name of this out.

Of the rat race kind of thing.

You know, get out of the. I had to hustle to get out of the hustle. That's true.

Makes sense.

And I'm from the east coast, so there's like the double hustle. Now I'm in California. So the hustle's still there.

Hustle's in your blood. It's not bubbling as fast.

So. Yeah, so, you know, done some pretty cool things. So I started with affiliate marketing and I, you know, when you're first starting out, you don't know much. I mean, the first year I don't think I made much. I was probably like, made like an extra couple grand. I was like, whoa, that's cool. You know, I get to drink an extra drink or have an extra meal.

Or whatever, you know, take my family out, whatever.

Exactly. And then eventually it just got to the point where I could quit my job. And I was doing like, you know, a couple grand a day. And I was just like, why am I working still?

That's crazy that you're actually making that kind of money and working a full time and you're making good money because.

I didn't know it was just, it was like online marketing. It was making money, was hitting my bank and I was just like, okay. And I was trying to figure out how to grow it at the same time.

Right.

So it's like I didn't want to, I didn't want it to like die like the day I quit my job and I'm like, oh shit.

You know, I guess that early on too, you never really know if this is gonna like keep going. Is this Internet thing a fad?

And then you remember in the early 2000s, the whole dot com bubble and it burst and like everyone, like half these companies went out of business. So like, no one really trusted the Internet. Like I guess you could say, yeah, yeah. But there was still a massive opportunity. Totally. Like Google and Yahoo and. Well, not anymore, but Yahoo Back then, they saw these opportunities, Ebay and all these guys, Netflix and. And all of them were there from the early days.

True. Yeah, they were around.

So that was what led me to kind of just do that. And eventually I took that business and I scaled just the affiliate marketing side of the business up to $5 million. When you're managing that many campaigns, you have to build software.

Right? Right. So automate.

You have to automate a lot of the media, buying, the analysis of the data, throwing up landing pages, testing different elements of landing pages, and constantly optimizing your campaign so that you can get better roi.

So instead of you doing all the grinding on the website, all that stuff you like, okay, we got to look at the numbers. Big picture.

It's all data. Everything is data in this world. You know, it's not even on. Just on computers and digital businesses. Everything is data. It doesn't matter if you're a local vendor selling coffee. You should know how many people are walking by the street. You should know what, how many people are, you know, in the areas and all that.

Well, it's like that's the difference between a business that might make like a hundred grand a year and that's like a service business, you know, one to one compared to like something that could scale to a million. Like you said numerous times, it's that data.

So I ended up scaling that company to $5 million. And that was my first company. And I did that in.

Three years, four years. As soon as I started this online digital thing. Three to four years, somewhere in that range. And I was like, holy crap, this stuff works. Yeah, I was like, holy crap, I.

Could do something with this.

And then I took that software that we developed, and I just want to get out of the affiliate marketing space. There's a lot of, like.

Depends what you do in the affiliate marketing space. There's lots of, like, weird shady stuff that goes on. There's a lot of fraud that goes on, a lot of click fraud that goes on. A lot of affiliates, especially back then. Too shady? Yeah, it was just like very. I. I needed to get out. Didn't feel right to me. So I ended up just saying, okay, well, let's sell the software. So then that software internally at our company was called the Magic Bullet System. And so that's what it was known as. And not the Magic Bullet blender. You came before the Magic Bullet System. And so I had never done, like the whole guru software product marketing thing. I was an affiliate marketer. I bought traffic and I sold product.

Yeah.

Someone else's product.

Yeah.

So I never had a customer service. Small customer list. Like, no customer support, nothing. Just a commission check. So this was pretty new. And so back then, I had teamed up with. I met Frank Kern because I moved to San Diego at the time and we lived near each other and that's how we met.

Is that I was gonna ask, like, how did he actually get into this world? And I guess it's him, huh? Be a neighbor.

Actually before that, I met Mike Phil. Same.

Okay. Yeah.

Many, many years before that when I lived in the East Coast. Mike Phil Same. Lived in New York.

Yeah.

So I used to visit him often. But I. And I did, like, small things. Like I did a bunch of videos on YouTube, like, here's how you do PPC and like, you know, and I was trying to build an audience.

Yeah.

You know, all that kind of stuff. So I might have had a list of like 3,000, 4,000 people. It wasn't like anything like, significant. And I wouldn't email them that often. And it was just like, I don't know. I didn't know what I was doing together exactly. So this was like the first thing on like a grand scale that I was like, what do you. He's like, what do you do, man? And I'm like, I do affiliate marketing. I sell other people's stuff. He's like, I don't get it. You don't sell. You don't have a product?

He didn't.

And I'm like, no. And he's like, how do you manage all those campaigns? I was like, we have software. He's like, can I see it one day? And I'm like, yeah, I'll show you one day. No, no, no worries. I was like, what do you do? And he's like, I sell information products. I'm like, what the hell is an information? I was like, what do you mean in infer.

What? Like Google, man.

And then he was telling me about how he used to sell pet products. Pet digital ebooks. Yeah. And he also did like make make money Internet marketing type of products about here's how I make money online, you know? So I was like, you can sell that? Like, what the hell? I kind of knew, but I didn't know at the scale.

Yeah.

Because I was seeing all these big launches happening at the time.

Yeah.

Like $1 million launches. $3 million launches. 2 million. And if you did like 3, you were like gangster. Oh, my God. He did $3 million launch.

You know, that was like the hit through the microphone. A Little closer. No, that was like the heyday. I remember that. Yeah. This crazy launches that were.

Yeah, like 2007, 8, 9. Like some of those. Some big launches were coming out, you know.

And so Frank had ins with that world.

Yeah.

And I had great software that works. And I showed it to him and he's like, what? He's like, this is crazy. He's like, can you show people how to do this? And I'm like, I think we can. So we decided to do a launch around the product.

Yeah.

And so again, going back to the unconventional growth we somehow rallied up. So I. I had built an audience in the affiliate marketing world. Six to 10,000 people. I had like on my list, you know, and then I had a lot of connections in that world. I knew all the top affiliates, all the top affiliate marketers. I was mentioned on blogs. It was like more people would do coverage on me than on myself.

Yeah.

You know, Sweet.

That's.

So I was very well known in the affiliate marketing world, but I wasn't really known in the Internet marketing world. But I saw the opportunity of this software to bridge that gap. They were both putting up landing pages, they were both split testing, they were both buying traffic, they were both doing using links to track their conversion, you know. So I was like, I built a software that both sides of the fence can use, so why don't I combine those two markets? So I was like, yo, Frank, I'll get my affiliate marketing kind of connections in the world. You bring your Internet marketing connections to the world and let's. Let's do this launch.

I didn't know. So you were like double dipping almost in that way. That makes sense.

So I identified like a gap in the market and I was like, this would be solve the gap. You know, just. It was way ahead of its time. So now we have like click funnels and we have like lead pages. Like back then, we would build landing pages with opt in boxes and HTML. And this is 2009. No, not HTML is WordPress all built on.

Okay, okay, cool.

And it would be a WordPress plugin and it would do all the work.

Got it for you. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Way, way, way ahead of its time. It was actually pretty cool.

That is sweet. So, yeah, you guys.

And so anyway, we launched it and we did $3.5 million in sales in 1.5 hours.

Jeez. So I remember watching this, like before knowing you, and I was like, what the hell? And I had no clue.

I was one and a half hours, $3.5 million in sales.

That's like, I don't think people can really grasp what that. I mean you probably had notifications just.

Going like every time we filmed it, we filmed it. So there actually is a mini documentary out there somewhere floating on.

We should find that like where we're.

Like, we're like refreshing it and it's like 30,000 refresh. Like a minute later, an extra 70,000 refresh. A minute later, extra 80 grand. We're like, what the hell's going on?

What were you thinking? Were you like.

We kind of knew we had pent up the demand. I emailed like every single person I knew, all of my affiliate managers, all of the affiliates that I knew, all of like the email list that I had, all my. Exactly. And before this we actually did a seminar, a very small underground like mm, affiliate marketing type of seminar. And we actually did 800 grand in sales just for the seminar. But that like built up the buzz and the, and the tension of those 200 people in that room were like.

They now knew it was out there.

Way ahead of their time. Like they have this software that does this and they split. Tested this and this is what they're teaching. It's like crazy.

Yeah.

People's minds were blown. Super, super small list. This was just with my affiliate marketing types of contacts. It was no one else.

That's cool, man. And then I know you relaunched it again in the future, right. With some updates and whatnot.

And so that launch, that initial launch did in the first seven days, $5.6 million in sales.

Your first launch. Not bad.

The second launch, which we did the year later, ended up doing, I believe like 3.6 or $3.9 million in failure. Obviously it was a major failure. And we did, we also did that one in like 10 days or something like that.

That's. That's amazing, man. And that's. And that's in addition to all the other stuff that you're doing. Obviously we're probably still doing affiliate stuff.

Yeah, we were having 100k days. Doing your own. While we were doing this and doing our own stuff. It was like wild. So we were like on this hockey stick, like ping.

Yeah, but nice. So. But I know since then, I mean you did all these other new businesses and different things and like what came after that? Because I know you didn't stay there for long.

No. Yeah, I was. Honestly a couple of things happened. I was a kind of jaded by the, the market of just selling product and information products and that whole like being on Camera and being the guru and stuff like that, it kind of jaded me out a little bit. And I just wanted to do something different, really, honestly. And those issues that I was having with partners and other. Other health issues and all kinds of stuff was just. It was like as if I hit like this, like, wall, you know, and it was. Had the. The Ferraris and the Maseratis and the houses in La Jolla and, like, overlooking the ocean and all the fun. All the fun and stuff. Private jets and drinking all night and the parties and. It was stupid.

Hell scares. Yeah.

Then I got sick.

Yeah.

And I was depressed. I was suicidal, actually. And I thought to myself many times, like, I said, why am I even here? This is stupid. Because everything felt like it was going wrong. Everything. Business was going down, friendships were going down, people were disappearing. You know, it's just crazy. Well, one good thing that happened around the time was I got married. Right. So that was kind of cool.

And you're still with her.

I'm still with her, yeah.

Amazing.

But everything else. Yeah, it was kind of just.

It was just.

I didn't want anything to do with it. It was at a point where I was just like, I surrounded myself with so much stuff, my ego blew to like, the size of like this like, hot air balloon, you know, And I just thought I was cooler, smarter, better than everyone on the planet. That was it.

Yeah.

And that was literally it.

That could destroy. Yeah. Businesses, people.

So anyway, I mean, it's a learning lesson, honestly. And I just started purging over the next like, like year basically, just getting rid of all of that stuff, trying to get rid of as much as I could, you know, and just purge, purge, purge, get rid of all that stuff and kind of start over. And that's when I said I really saw like the mobile Trend in like 2009 happening. So this is kind of like I saw it coming and I just experimenting a little bit. In 2010, 2011, I started really getting to more of the apps kind of world because I saw like, tremendous opportunity again, kind of. I like to see things before they peak. So then what I did was I just started creating apps. And sure enough, it reminded me of the Internet. I was like, huh? The more websites I make, the more money I make. So if I'm the more apps I make, that means the more money I'll make.

That's right. You found another screen. So it means more eyeballs.

Exactly.

So you can tap into.

So then what I did was.

I'll fast forward this because we got to get to the actual.

Yeah, for sure. We have a whole, like, system. Yeah.

Yeah. So. Yeah, well, that probably might not take that long. Half of the cool.

We can always tie it all in together.

Yeah. So after that was. I got into apps, and I got into two things of apps, and one was mobile apps, and the other one was mobile book publishing. So, like, ebooks and stuff like that, Publishing those on the mobile ecosystem. So that's. I went kind of deep into that because I was like, man, I don't want to do next. And I thought. I thought it was apps.

Yeah.

And I thought it was mobile. So, like, yeah, mobile's the future.

Yeah.

Everyone was like, mobile. Everyone's screaming.

That was, like, the thing. Yeah. And that's when we kind of were working.

That's when we kind of started working together a little bit on a couple projects on the book stuff and the app stuff and the mobile book stuff. You know, I think when we started it, we were. It was doing like, $100 a day or something like that, or maybe like 50 bucks a day or something. And then me and you took it to, like, over $200,000, $300,000 a year.

Right.

And then we turned that system into a half a million dollar the next year business.

Right.

So that was pretty cool.

Yep. And then train some people as well.

Yep.

It was, like, catching it right before it started to, you know, really get popular.

Really?

That was the whole thing. It's another hack, you know, like, let's.

Find it quick so that the mobile. I ended up creating, like, three different mobile companies actually through the next, like, two to three years. My mobile app company, I ended up scaling to over a million and a half dollars in the first year and a half. But again, what I did was I developed a software that I knew that people, like, felt like it wasn't an automated process to build apps. And everyone's like, it's Gonna cost you 50 grand. It's gonna cost you, like, $100,000. Apps are so expensive. And I was like, no, actually, I just published 100 of them for $9 each.

Right.

Yeah. And people like, I'm out of business.

Yeah. No, get smarter, man.

So. Exactly. So I built a system that does that, and we ended up scaling that and selling a lot of that software. The app business itself was over six figures in business, so that was pretty cool. And again, just the unconventional growth.

You know, it's like these little things you find. It's. It's. And, you know, it could seem small at the time, but definitely Seem like.

Serial entrepreneur, you know.

Right.

And then after the app stuff or during the app stuff, I started like this consulting type of business.

Because that still I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I was just like apps consulting? I don't know. So I took on consulting clients and I just knew how to hack the system where in the first year we did like 400,000 in sales from clients. And I was like.

That was like pretty chill too, because.

Yeah, I didn't take many. No, I took like two or three, but they were like long term and I negotiated deals with them and.

Right. So it was like a lifestyle kind of.

Yeah, lifestyle kind of when I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.

That's smart, man. You need that time. Yeah, yeah.

And then that let me explore it all the way to a new company which is called Deep Origins, the latest venture that I am sticking to. This is it you have.

Because you've had it for like, I mean, probably five years.

Four to five years. Yeah. Since I thought of the idea and I just love it. It's. It's connected to my heart.

Yeah.

It's all around ancient wisdom and meditation and yoga and healing, natural healing and things like that and E commerce and combining those two worlds, you know, And I love. Yeah, I didn't like the info product world. There's so much free information and it just feels like unless you're highly specialized in something, it's very. It's gonna get harder and harder and harder.

Yeah.

Unless you're a suit. It's turning into like the Udemy world. You can buy a course for $7 if you want.

It's like we talked a lot about that. We have, the two of us. Matt and I have like. But some masterminds we're in. It's like, man, info can only be so valuable. I mean, it's obviously valuable if you.

People love buying shit. They do all day long. Look at Amazon. It's crazy.

Today when we're recording this, they just bought freaking whole foods for $13 billion. You think people like Amazon?

People go to Whole Foods, right? People buy stuff all day long. Consumer markets are there. It's the largest markets in the world, you know, so it's cool.

Deep Origins, though. And I know you're. You're pretty damn humble too, because you're not going to say everything, but like, we're like surrounded with supplements right now in his office. He doesn't ship them all, but they're just like here.

And the yoga mats that we sell.

I actually just bought one on Amazon just like this. Maybe I bought it from you.

Jewelry items. We have some bedding and stuff that we sell at home.

Yeah.

Canvas art.

Right.

Cool stuff.

Well, and then you obviously, like last week you're on Travel Channel, you had a whole friggin hour long episode. You're in India and Dwarka.

Yeah.

Scuba diving.

Ancient expedition. Yeah, yeah.

What was the name of the show?

Expedition Unknown.

That's right. Yeah.

Now how that whole thing about like, how did that. You know my.

So no, no, I don't.

That was badass.

That actually started off with.

It was around the time where I was lost, honestly in business and life and health. And I was just recovering and getting like my mind back, you know, and being connected to who I was. And I was researching this lost civilization for like very long time. Pretty much since my teenage years. Like just wondering like, why. Because a lot of it was like growing up. I grew up in New Jersey, like I mentioned. I. My parents were immigrants. They moved here in the late 70s. I was born in New Jersey and I grew up like, like American culture, but with like Indian culture also. Right. From India, you know. So we used to go to this temple at this old YMCA that they converted into like a Indian temple. And it, you know, it wasn't like anything. It wasn't like this ancient temple. It was just like. And it was funny is I used to go swimming there before they turn it into a temple. So. Right.

That's awesome.

And so anyway, my parents used to. We used to go there. Not often, you know, but we used to go there like, I don't know, once every couple months or something like that. That, you know. And I'd be like, why am I going here? And the name of the temple was Dwarka Dish Temple. So at some age you're just like, what is all? What it. Why?

Yeah, why is it named that or whatever.

Why is it named then? And why am I going. Why am I praying and then going back home and then playing basketball and eating pizza, you know, it's like, what. What is the point of all this stuff? So anyway, question asked.

I mean, even as a teenager.

Yeah. And then I started just researching it and I found out that it was like a old civilization myth, you know. And as I started to dig in more, I found out that they actually started doing excavations in a town called Dwarka in India where there is a Dwarka Dish temple.

That's right, the big one. It's old.

Like, yeah. 800 A.D. or something like that. Crazy. And so that led to more questions and more research, and then eventually, they. They found more stuff that dated older and older and older as they went out into the water because it was submerged under the sea. So that just led me on this quest to find out more. And when I was, like, kind of just soul searching, my daughter was gonna be born in, like, three months, and I was like, I'm just gonna go to India. I just need to do this. And we had started a nonprofit around that time, so. Just nonprofit. I had no intention.

I was like, I just want to be a nonprofit.

I just want to do this out of my. Out of my heart.

That's all.

Just. I want to find more. Find out why they're not, like, doing more research, why they stopped. If this could prove to be, like, one of the oldest civilizations known to man, then, like, what do we want to, like, research more and find out what they were doing. And, like, you know, there's references to, like, all this, like, ancient advanced technology that we can't even, like, replicate today. So what's buried under the ocean? You know?

Start digging.

Exactly. So that led me on this quest, and I went to India, and I had no intention of shooting a documentary. I went there through serendipity. A dude shows up at my door, films me for eight days, and I'm flying him the flight black back, and I'm like, what the hell just happened? I have eight days of footage of me in India doing interviews and just. And going to, like, this temple. And, like, I don't even. I have no fucking clue what I'm gonna do with this.

It's cool. Yeah.

Okay. So then. So then I just made a. I just figured, all right, let me just make a documentary out of it and start a. Start a fan. Start a Facebook brand. Yeah. Brand around it. I didn't know what I was gonna do with it.

That was Ancient Explorers.

That was Ancient Explorers. Yeah. So then that documentary went viral. Travel Channel, I guess, found it, reached out to me and said, we'd love for you to be the expert on our show when we go and shoot an episode on it and would. We'd like to sponsor your expedition out there. And I'm like, so they spawned. They sponsored my expedition to go out there, and they filmed everything, and then they put it on Travel Channel because.

I saw they were saying, Amisha's team.

I was like, my first. My first expedition ever. Yeah. We actually had to, like, work with the. The Indian government to get permissions and permits and, like, all kinds of crazy stuff.

I love the. I think my. Everyone are listening. You got to go watch that episode. It is an hour long and so carve out some time. It's on Travel Channel or maybe their website. I don't know.

But yeah, you can find it. It's called India's Atlantis. The show's called Expedition Unknown.

Yeah. But check it out, because it's like, you'll learn all of this stuff. And I think the best, like, shot I remember, you're in the water with, like, your pants, hiking, like, this freaking machine that was like, dredge.

I'm like.

I'm like, I know Amish, and he doesn't normally do manual lab. So, like, this is really funny to watch.

I know. I'm like. I'm, like, sitting there, and he's like, oh, we got the dredge. And I'm like, okay.

I mean, it looked fun, actually. I would love to do that Pretty wild stuff, too.

Found some stuff.

It's crazy, but. All right. That was a whole.

Yeah.

Like, we can go down that for a long time, but let's.

So, yeah, my latest company now is just like. We have, like, a couple brands, you know, Not a couple. I should say. We have, like, three brands. We're gonna be rolling out, like, three more this year that we all do E Commerce in. In that kind of world. The ancient, sacred, sacred kind of, you know, world. Yoga, meditations, and that whole stuff. Yeah. Encinitas a little bit, maybe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that vibe.

The vibe. Yeah. So that's kind of like the stuff that we kind of sell and really passionate about it, and I love that stuff. And it's good. It's great.

So, I mean, I know you have a whole system because we actually use this back in the book days, like the mobile book days, and. And it was rbmto. And this was actually a system that Matt didn't know anything about.

I still don't remember what you told me.

It's perfect.

It's a very hard acronym.

It is. And I remember we were, like, trying to get it.

We tried to change it. And I'm like, you just can't. Sorry. It's too good.

But take us through that if you want to know.

Yeah. So, yeah, I use the same exact formula in every single company I've built. And that's why when you asked me, do you have a system that works? I was like, yeah, I do. I've used this system. And I've been talking about this system for, like, six years now. Five. Six years. You know, long time. And I actually built the magic bullet system and my, all of that stuff. Like after this process, everything was rbmto. Like everything I build is rbmto.

Yeah.

What the hell is rbmto? It's, it's just something I made up, to be honest with you.

Or something like 23andMe.

It's a process, it's a step by step procedure. It's a system, it's a formula, it's a philosophy, it's, it's a, it's how you can growth hack any area of your life. It could be your business, it could be your personal life, could be a goal that you want to achieve. It's basically the fastest path to growth hacking that I've discovered.

At least with the process you don't have to think too hard about when to do. Yeah, yeah.

So, so what is growth hacking? Most people kind of always ask is like, what is growth hacking? Well, growth hacking is like the combination of like from a marketing perspective or from a digital perspective is like the creative marketing, the data and analytics, and then the software, automation and engineering and it's the combination of those three. So if you look at like a Venn diagram type of deal where you get creative, the marketing in one circle, then the data analytics and testing in another circle and then software engineering and automation in another circle. And like the middle of that little.

Growth hacking, and that's I think what like scales most businesses really quickly or at least gets them started is like that combo. If you don't, then you're kind of just like mediocre business.

Exactly. You have to have all three of these firing on all cylinders.

That makes sense.

Data, like I mentioned is most people ignore data and most people ignore automation.

Yeah.

And so they're stuck in marketing and that's all they do. And they feel like they're turning their wheels and they can't understand why that makes sense.

They're working too hard.

Yeah.

Like they're just hustle, hustle, grind, grind, grind. Yeah. So no, let's automate some of that hustle, man.

So nice.

Yeah.

So you know, you can use this in any area of your life. It may not be the same like creative marketing and all that, but you can use it. Like I'll explain to you how in your life in just a second.

So yeah. So the rbmto.

Rbmto. Say what?

I know. What the hell is.

I kind of remember no.

R stands for research, the B stands for build, the M stands for monetize, the T stands for track. And the O stands for optimize.

So research, build, monetize, track and optimize. Yep, got it.

So the research phase of it again coming from a marketing digital perspective is where do you get your research from? What is your product about, what is your market about? What are they doing, where are they shopping, what are they listening to, what are they? The avatar, everything. The research. This can be done by finding the traffic rank of your competitors websites on Alexa could be finding conversion rates and earnings per click on or trying to find out as much data as you can from Amazon or ebay or Semrush.

We use that back in the day.

Rush or Alibaba or AdWords or you know you're getting your data from all these different sources.

Right.

Such as search, market volume and demand from Google keyword tool, viral volume. You can type in keywords into like a tool like BuzzSumo.

Oh yeah, BuzzSuma is awesome.

To see how much viral. Virality there is around the subject.

Yeah.

Looking at the demographics from Facebook perspective, who's actually interested in what you're talking about, what else do they do, where do they shop? And then taking all that kind of data and finding the gap. So you take all this data, you can look at consumer surveys, you can look at comments. I actually go to the comments section first sometimes that makes sense. So if I find a product on Amazon I actually go to the comments section first. Because they're always tell you what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

So if you can do what they're doing right and then take what they're doing wrong and make it better.

Yeah.

Now you have found the gap in.

The marketplace and are you searching like brand names maybe like once you learn some brands in the area, let's look at their ads or you know, let's start following them so we can see.

Brand names or even not brand names. Sometimes there's advertisers out there that are, that are still make it's a $10 million year business. They're doing very well and I can see exactly what they're doing wrong and right and that's sometimes easier to replicate.

Like a really successful business, five to.

Ten million dollar business and then you might have the bigger vision in play where you do want to go eventually to that big brand. But getting to that level first is usually it's like oh, they're doing that wrong but they're a $5 million, 10 million dollar business. But I know that market is $1 billion business.

Well it makes it. Yeah. It's like, well, they proved it. I could probably make at least a million dollar business fairly quickly with just this. Maybe sell it or scale it if you want.

Sometimes I do look at big brands, but sometimes when you look at big brands, they just have too much. So many operations that you can't even afford to do the things that they do. True, that makes sense. So you can look at gaps of their product, but maybe not so much their marketing.

Got it. Okay, that makes sense. That's cool. So just basically anywhere that people are hanging out, look for stuff.

Exactly. So that's the research. Research is very straightforward. The next is the B for build. The build is basically where we have like, almost like a sub process, almost underneath this where the build stage is. Okay. Now that you've done your research, you have to build something. You got to do something about it. The research phase for a personal. Let's just say they use weight loss, for example, as a goal. Right. The research phase is like, how can I lose weight? What am I doing wrong? Am I drinking too much soda?

What's, what is lifestyle habits?

What is the lifestyle? What is actually causing you to do that? So do research around that. Research how you can get off some of the sugar, how you get off some of the bread, how you can give your body the things that it needs, the exercise you need, whatever it is. Like you do these kind of research items. The next stage is building. So from a website perspective, the first step is strategy of your product or your offer or your sales funnel. First I start with a mind map and then I create like a project plan or a resource plan. Then you get into like the copy, you know, that's like writing all the copy. The writing stuff. The writing piece of it. Yeah. Then there's design, so graphics, video, that kind of stuff. Then there's the programming piece of it.

Yeah.

So you got to get all the content and the graphics and the video and all that stuff made and integrated into your website.

Stuff you can kind of like outsource, for the most part. You can outsource strategy. Really though?

Yeah.

But you want to. You could.

Yeah. You can outsource all this? Yeah, yeah.

For sure. Well, yeah, all of it. I guess you could.

Yeah. Every piece of it could be just a different person. That does it.

Okay. Yeah. Because I'm thinking the way to scale after this, but obviously you want to do the work.

So that's like. The second phase is like build again. When I was doing in the beginning, I. I did it myself when When I, when I did built my first app, guess who did it? I built it myself.

That's right.

And I would just use any image. I didn't care about the looks and wanted to make it work. I think people just get so stuck on making it look good and everything has to be right. Get something out. What they call like the mvp, right. Which is like your minimal viable product. Get the smallest, fastest thing you need to get out to test the market as fast as possible.

Yeah, that's why I'm like guilty of. Is trying to like perfect shit too much and then it's like saying, get it out. No, I know you're guilty of that too. It's like we would both be guilty of that. And then like, crap, why didn't that get done?

Yeah, well, I'm the type that's like, let's put this product out. But it's only halfway built. Yeah, we'll drip the rest out later.

Yeah, we're gonna go get it. Exactly. And it works.

Yeah.

And you know, from a weight loss perspective, same exact thing. Build yourself a plan. Build your. Go build yourself a grocery list. Build yourself a workout plan. Build yourself a list of things that you're not going to eat. Build a list of reminders, phone reminders, you know, get something to help you.

And it doesn't have to be perfect either. Just get it started. Exactly.

Just get it started.

Right, so monetizes M. Right?

The M of RBMTO is monetize. So that's monetized. Monetize is monetized.

Make money with it.

Now you're gonna buy traffic. You've already got all your copy done. You have your product, you've set the price, you've you. Everything's ready to go. So this is like.

That all came from your research and strategy.

And the building.

Yeah, and the building.

So now, yeah, now it's time to monetize. So, you know, social, paid and organic traffic. Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, that kind of stuff. SEO articles. You can get SEO on YouTube, you can get SEO on other videos, ads, everywhere.

Of course. Yeah.

Google search traffic, Keyword based traffic.

Emails.

Emails, yeah, emails.

We were nerd before this even. Like in talking about all these different ways, you could just grow different lists, like buckets of audience people and then hit them all with an offer or value, whatever it might be. And that's what Matt and I are constantly like. Okay, so like Facebook groups, you have freaking chatbot like we talked about.

I have like this massive list of like all these like, like marketing channels. Yeah. Like, and it's just like.

Well, sometimes it's like way cheaper to build like a chatbot list or have more, you know, a group or something. And then it's just as effective, if not more responsive.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So the M is basically, basically drive traffic to that.

Drive traffic, yeah. And so you can do that with affiliates, with JVs, you can do that. There's so many ways to get traffic. When people say they have a traffic problem. Like, oh, my God.

Yeah.

Don't tell me that there's more than enough people, more than enough traffic out there.

Not trying hard enough. You're not expanding your vision.

Or you're cheap.

Or you're cheap. Let's either spend the money or work like a maniac to get it. Yeah, and this can all work with like affiliate offers because I know, like, we do a lot of stuff where we drive traffic to. Not our own product, obviously.

Someone else's product. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I mean, all this stuff, there's still strategy and copy and all that.

Exactly. And monetize from this side, from a weight loss perspective, I'm trying to bring it back to.

Okay, yeah.

So the monetized section of the weight loss perspective is how are you going to monetize it? You know, how are you going to track yourself? How are you going to stick to this? So setting up a plan, following the plan, measuring results.

Well, if it's driving traffic, which this, it'd be almost like going to the.

Doing the work.

Like doing it. Yeah, Doing the work. Actually going to the store. Exactly right. Every day. Yeah, that makes sense.

And then the next one is track T rbmt. So the T is track data is gold and it's been gold for a very long time. Data is the key. So you want to look at all your analytics. Basically, this is where you rip apart your data and you compare things. You know, there's your product or your store analytics, your website analytics, your Facebook analytics, your email analytics, your conversion analytics, your opt in. You know, there's a number for everything. So this is about identifying your core KPIs, right. And understanding what your core measurements are and then watching those and then trying to get those to, you know, seeing where you're not hitting your numbers, basically.

So what for like a typical business, I know this isn't perfect across the board, but like 80% of businesses out there, what are like the top two or three KPIs people should be looking.

At number of visitors, number of leads, number of sales. Okay, that's the way I look at it.

Lead, sales. Yeah, that makes sense because all the advertising costs, it really doesn't matter if you're making the money here.

And. Yeah, and then, and then you have the conversion rate of all of those, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

So in our business where there's recurring, it's retention.

Retention's a big retention.

Yeah, exactly.

Recurring.

Every business is a little bit different, but yeah, I think at the end of the day, everyone needs a sales engine in the front, you know, so those are your core three KPIs. If you don't have visitors, leads and sales, then, yeah, you don't have a business.

You can make any business with that kind of knowledge if you just know how to do that.

Exactly.

And if you're not knowing your numbers, at least on a basic level, then you're pretty much flying blind.

Like, we have spreadsheets that literally will track like 19. I'm showing these guys here.

Yeah, he's showing it to us now.

I'm showing like a spreadsheet where we'll literally track our core KPIs, but we, we will track 15 to 20 core KPIs every single day on a daily basis.

I love that you're actually using old school spreadsheets too.

We just automated this, actually, because I'm.

Like, I'm looking at Excel.

That's the other. That's the other key. Right. So then you realize that that leads us to the next step. Optimize is optimize. Now that whole entire thing that you built, you. You built, you understand the data and now you can optimize. Where are your bottlenecks? What's taking you a long time? These spreadsheets were taking us an hour to two a day. So I just hired a programmer to build something once and now it does it automatically. So I optimize that section of it. So not only operationally from a business perspective, but optimize from a marketing campaign perspective. Right, right, right turn. Oh, sorry. For social, previous one, let's go back to Trek.

Yeah.

And for the health, for the health side of it, keeping a log, obviously is the best way. Watching your weight weekly.

My fitness pro, there's an app out there that's. I've seen this, tracks all your food.

And fitness and they even have like the things where they measure your body fat and things like that. So, like, you can track everything now.

Yeah. Fitbits.

Yeah, there you go.

And that tracking will lead you, like I said, to the next stage, which is optimization. It tells you what to do next. That data will tell you what to do next, how to do it better if you're not losing weight. Well, guess what, you're probably eating those fries or drinking coke or doing something that you're not supposed to do or you're not going to the gym or you know, there's something out of what the plan that you build that you're not doing. Right.

So examples of this are like taking your data and turning it into next steps.

Right.

And that is like if your CPM is too high, well, what do you do? Maybe it's the wrong targeting. If you have low ctr, then you probably have wrong targeting or the bad advertisement. If your CPA is too high, you're probably trying to target an incorrect audience or your offer is not that good.

Not hit.

If your average order value is too low, then my specific business ecom, for example, you know, your product or audience is, is, is mismatched. Or there's a, you have a back end like upsell issue because you're not making the money from the audience.

So that makes sense.

It just gives you data and not you won't get all the data immediately every time. It's like refining.

Yeah.

So once you have this data, well, what do you do? You rinse and repeat. You literally rinse and repeat. So you take the data that you learned from your optimization step.

Yeah.

Right. And you say, okay, I'm going to implement these changes or how do I implement these changes? You dump that back into the research bucket. Do all your research on all the data points that you did that you found out need to be fixed. Then you go and build it, then you go and monetize it, then you go and track it. Then you get more data spit out.

Yeah.

Tells you more things to research and do. And you dump that back into the bucket and you keep doing that over simple process, man.

Because it can obviously like you could do. Once you get it going and have a process for all this, like in your own business you could take like maybe you throw another optimized page out there and it's like another week later you do the research and you kind of check in on everything and do it.

Exactly.

And it cycle begins.

It's just a cycle. And if you keep, keep doing this over and over and over again and you just, even if you just focus on one thing every single time through the process.

Yeah.

You'll see tremendous results.

That makes sense.

So yeah.

And I think too many people are trying to do new two new every single time. It's like if you do this, you keep Your head kind of focused on the goal. If you have a goal first, start there, obviously. But yeah, like you said with Deep Origins, that was your vision for the future. It's what you connected with and all that. Now you can actually set a process like this in motion and stick to it, you know?

Exactly. Yeah.

And yeah, Matt and I, I think we finally did that because a lot of the times we're popping around kind of like you. It's just like not really too passionate about the.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I did for a while. And I was like, everyone does, I think.

But that's cool, man. Yeah, the rbmto.

Yeah. Rvmt. So we'll have to use it in any area of your life and you can actually find yourself in certain sections. So if you're like, right, what should I do next in my business? And you don't know, there's probably. You're probably stuck at one of these steps.

How would you know?

Like, so it's like if you're. Well, if you can't get past research, then they're obviously. Yeah, there's another issue.

Hire someone.

Like, if you're at the build stage, that's also. That's that probably a resource issue. Like, you don't have good developers, you don't have good programmers.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

If you're stuck at the monetize, well, maybe your offer is bad, maybe your traffic's bad, maybe your something is not working properly or you're not. You're not able to make money. Focus on that section, you know, tracking data, perhaps even look at the section before.

Ah, that makes sense. Yeah. Maybe go up back one because you.

Might have jumped too fast to the trying to be at the next section.

That's actually a pretty big point right there. No, that's pretty cool.

Yeah. I mean, if you ever run into like a roadblock in your business or whatever, you could kind of relook at this sort of process and figure out, all right, what step am I in? Okay, what about this step is screwing me up right now?

Yeah, yeah.

And if you're already at the monetization step, but you can't figure out how to scale, then maybe there's something wrong with your data, you know, looking at your data enough.

That's true. Yeah. And that data is like so crazy anyway. There's so many fricking sources and it's not perfect sometimes, you know, like if you go different sources to a different domain, like, it gets complicated.

That's one of our biggest struggles. Right now is just getting accurate tracking across everything we're doing, right?

Yeah, but it's, it's cool though. I mean, it's. I think if you get like 80% of the traffic or whatever the data is right, then you're probably doing all right, you know, better than most.

But yeah, so, yeah, that, that's the system. I know it was a long winded approach to the system, but we got a little bit more once you kind of like learn it and you can like be like, oh, okay, like, I get it now. This is our bmt. It's like five simple steps and you can like, literally, that's how you growth, hack and scale. Like, that's how I've been doing it for my businesses and somewhat in my personal life.

Have you really, like.

Yeah.

Have you put it, like, for health?

I do. I track some of that stuff for health. Even like meditation. I once went on a streak for.

Like a year, a year and a half or like, almost like, literally. I might have missed like three days.

I remember that. That was when we were working.

It was not. It was wild, dude. It was pretty sick. So it was like, you know, and.

That was like actually like mantra type. It wasn't just like sitting silent.

It was like.

Yeah, yeah.

Anywhere between, depending on the day, 10 minutes to like an hour and 15 minutes. Yeah, just like crazy.

And that's with kids or kid, you know, it's hard.

It's hard, but, you know, you gotta find a way to make it happen.

It's important.

But I still know, like, when I did that for a year and a half like, that straight, I've never felt like more kind of calm, I guess. Peace a little bit.

Well, yeah, I mean, dude, it's obviously proven out and I think we could go on like a whole nother episode on all the mindfulness and conscious, like. But that'll be another episode, another day, another lunch afterwards. It's another excuse to get up here.

Exactly.

That's rad, man. Well, cool.

Do you have any. Do you have any books that you find yourself, you know, reading often, like over and over again or recommending a lot?

Yeah, business books, anything.

I mean, I see one on your desk that I know that you've recommended to me that this is a.

This is from a while ago.

Yeah, Matt's got it too.

It's a very different book. The business I'm in is very much focused on, like, awakening and being in touch with yourself and personal development and spiritual development. We have a lot of people on our list and so It's a book called Sacred Commerce. But there's two books actually called Sacred Commerce out there. So you want the ones that's from the founders of Cafe Gratitude, Matthew and Terseus Engelhardt.

It's kind of like a tannish looking book. Yeah. Kind of older looking paperback.

It's a pretty good book. I always, like, I always recommend Scaling up.

By Verne Harnish. Yeah. That's like, I go to that book like multiple times a year.

Would you recommend that for. Because I know it's pretty advanced. Is that it's literally for scaling up. So someone with an established business that's kind of ready to step it up.

Well, you know, I actually started reading the book when I first started. Not when I first started, but around the time I first started Deep Origins.

Wow. So.

And it actually just helped me, you know, the examples they have in there. Like, so you're ready to scale to a $50 million business or a $10 million business?

Like. Yeah, you just have to.

You just have to dumb it down to where. Where you're at. So, you know, you don't have people working in like, every department that's handling a certain, like, line on your P and L item and things like that. It's like you have to do half the work yourself. Right. But it gives you an idea of where you want to be in 10 years and then how to backtrack that into an actionable plan.

Today. I remember. Yeah. And the worksheets and all that stuff.

Yeah. And they have worksheets and all that stuff.

Yeah.

I built my plan, you know, five years ago and I started executing on it. And sure enough, my plan has changed tremendously in the five years. But because of the fact that I'm able to revisit it every couple of months, I know my KPIs, I know what I'm trying to hit. I know the people I need to hire. I know what I'm trying to do. Like. And it creates, again, that book creates a system of its own that you implement in your business.

You know, shove that plan on the wall and then you stick to it. It, you know, as much as possible.

Exactly.

That's cool, but. Right on, man. Anything else or is that.

No, that's it. Thank you.

Dude. Rad. All right, well, thanks again. We will be coming back. Well, where.

Okay, so when people listen to this, where do you want to send them after the show? What's your website?

Where can they find you?

You can go to 20, you can.

Go to deeporigins, dot com. That's my company name. Deep Origins, so you can see what we do. And then my personal website is amish.com. not the word hyphen, the actual-Amish. Yeah. So it's amish-shah.com. yeah, those are the shah. Yeah. And those are the two places where you can find me.

Yeah. But check out his. All of his stuff. He has a lot of cool brands. Ancient healthcare. I don't think he even mentioned that. But it's like that.

One of my supplement brands. Yeah, we're shooting, like, super. That's a whole nother story. But I know we spent the last four years filming 36 Doctors, and we're about to release all the footage soon.

So this is why we need another episode. So there's no way we could fit it all. And we already went over, so it's all good. Right on, man. Thank you.

Thank you. Do it again. Thanks, Matt.

Thanks, Joe, and we'll talk next time. See you.

Hey, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Now, if you don't know already, myself and my partner, Joe Fear, every single week, we put together this killer weekly newsletter that's completely free. If you go to theweeklyprophet.com you can get on this weekly newsletter. And what we do with this newsletter is we scour the Internet. We read every piece of content, listen to blog posts, check out new software and tools, and we distill down the best of the best into a weekly newsletter and deliver it directly to your inbox every single week. So head over to theweeklyprophet.com and make sure you're signed up to receive that weekly newsletter. You're going to love it. Thanks so much again for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. We'll see you in the next one.