Ari Galper - Stop "Following Up" With Leads And Do This Instead

So my idea is very contrarian. My whole thought process is basically not to give value pre sale, but instead to provide clarity on their problem, not value on the solution. What I discovered was, well, the entire time they're going, do I trust him? Do I trust him? Do I trust him? Not how it works or the features and benefits. See, we're so programmed in condition to kind of just educate on what we do. Case studies, stories, demos, benefits. What happens is we're in our head the entire time. We don't go into their world and going deep on their problems. So our whole system is based upon the idea that your goal is unpack their problems. Like a doctor patient relationship. That potential clients don't care about how you solve their problem. What they care about is if you're the one to solve it or not.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Welcome back.

We are here.

We are here with the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. As you just heard in the intro that came before this, I am with.

My fabulous co host, Mr. Wolf.

Thank you, Mr.

Fear. It's Matt Wolf.

I mean, sorry, is it fear or fire?

What do you prefer?

Fire.

Okay, it's fire today. Yeah, I'm on fire.

How many times do we go to events and they introduce you as Joe Fire?

It actually doesn't happen as often as it. I thought it would.

Yeah, but it has happened.

Of course.

But I don't like to correct people. What's the point? I'm just playing in this character that's playing another character. I watched Too deep. I watched some Jim Carrey videos last night. There you go. There you go. He's woke.

He is woke.

He is woke in a mask.

All right, so today we're not talking to Jim Carrey.

Yeah, that's a future episode. No, today we're talking to Ari Galper who was introduced to us through Perry Marshall. And this is a talk about how to do sales properly, which is a much more exciting topic than that might sound.

Let's, let's, let's reword what you just said there so properly can be. You know what? If you think you're doing sales properly already, what are people going to get out of this episode?

They're going to realize they're probably not. It's going to shatter what they think is doing sales properly.

All right, yeah, fair point. Good point. So, yeah, Ari specializes in trust based selling, which to be honest, like what is that? Well, you're going to understand because basically Ari flips sales on its head and he, he actually started out with a really poignant story that basically proves why his method is, I would say, the best. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely suits our character, you know, in terms of wanting to sell. And it's different than anything else I've heard.

Yeah, I mean, if you're worried about selling, this is a good episode for you. If you don't like doing the sales calls, this is a good episode for you because it kind of lets you off the hook on a lot of stuff and makes it feel like a lot easier process. So I'll just leave it at that because he does a much better job at explaining this process than we will. But this is a very, very, very good, very actionable episode. So get ready to take notes or grab our notes.

Hustleandflowchart.com comp get them notes, their action notes. Hustleandflowchart dot com comp a couple, couple weeks to get this for free and not to waste any more time. Let's talk about the sponsor. That's Ahrefs. That's a H r e f s dot com. If you go there, they have a$7. Seven day trial. Full access to that software suite. SEO tool. We use it for everything. I think the coolest thing is they're not the coolest, but one of them, YouTube. Like, they have so much training on YouTube.

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We're gonna leave that in there. Everyone go to ahrefs A H R E F S dot com. Get that trial. You're gonna love it. And let's go talk to Mr. Ari Galper. All right, Ari, we're live. How are you doing? Or good morning to you.

Great. Yeah, good morning over here. Yeah, afternoon over there.

I'm sure that's right now. It's always cool to talk to another guy that's lived in San Diego, at least for an extended period. You're in Sydney now.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

Both sides of the world.

That's right. And shout out to Perry Marshall, you know, thanking him for the intro. And he's. He's introduced some cool people to us recently and. And yeah, and finally got you on the show. So. Yeah, maybe that's part of this. It'd be cool to hear kind of like some of the story with you and Perry. I know you guys go way back.

Well, Perry and I actually met in Australia probably 15, 20 years ago. The first ever Internet online seminar they had in this part of the world. And I was just moving here to my wife online on a dating site. Believe actually, back then there wasn't any swiping at all. We just literally.

And so I went to, I think Coolum Australia here. I went to a seminar, I just moved here and I met him there. And at a cocktail hour, I printed my homepage out and I brought him to like the homepage. This is my home page. And I can't figure out why it's not converting. And they're like, well, crossed that out. Took a pen. I'm like, okay, thanks. Went back to my room and just made the pain just start to work. I'm like, okay, you got me. So I joined his bobsled run and his original Google AdWords program and I won a prize there. And I mentor ever since. And we're trends now. And I spoke at his last private group client group in San Diego last year.

He's a cool guy. Yeah. Share a lot of cool folks that have graced this year. But let's get into your story and kind of briefly walk. Walk us through, you know, what brought you here. I know it's all wrapped around sales and having these interesting. You have a lot of strategies that are going to be cool to deep dive into.

Yeah, sure. So I've been around doing this for about 20 years now. I've got a whole philosophy and business called Unlock the Sales Game. And essentially, I'll tell you a Story behind it, which I think will resonate with. About 20 years ago, I was a sales manager software company, and believe it or not, we were the first ones to launch the website online. Website tracking tools like Google Analytics, tracking all the stats we had. The first one actually built that little tool. And I was so back then I was involved with that. And I had a team underneath me as salespeople, and my job was to kind of bring the big accounts in. So I got this one lead came across my desk, and it was a big, big company. You recognize the name and they have multiple websites. I was like, wow, this is a huge deal. If I get this one deal, it would double the revenue in one year for the whole company. So you can imagine everyone's thinking, ari, good, go for it. So if I land this deal, everyone gets a bonus pretty much at Christmas time.

No pressure.

Contact agreed to a conference call in a demo to see our product. So the day finally came, four o' clock in the afternoon. It was myself and my CEO in the conference room, the closed door behind us. I closed the window shades a bit so they couldn't look inside the team. And so on the table was a speakerphone, the ones with three legs on it, the old corporate ones. Speakerphones, Yep. So I dialed the number and my contact says, you know, hey, Ari. Said, hey, John, how's it going? Good. We started chatting a bit. He says, look, let me share with you, Ari, who we have on the call right now with us. I was like, oh, great. Who do you have with him? Next thing I hear is, my name is Mike, I'm CEO. I was like, wow, CEOs. This is a good person. My name is Steve. I'm head of it. Oh, this is even better, you know, My name is Julie. I'm head of marketing. This is like everybody on this call was basically a decision maker, right? This is a call we hope you as often as possible. So I was pretty jazzed about it and I introduced myself and then gave them a live demo over the web showing their website statistics live collected on one of the websites we did in advance. And. And I started hear this noise on the phone call, like, wow, this is great. This is like early days, you know? And they're like, oh, my, this is amazing. I can't believe we can see all this information, this data. They started asking me all kinds of questions, you know, how does it work? How does the tagging work and the technology? And I had all the answers. I was pretty competent back then, so I answered all the questions and I mean, there was so much chemistry on this phone call, you guys. It was like. Like a love fest on the phone.

From day one, second one.

You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah, absolutely.

It's like, oh, this is like, oh, thank you, God. I was like, this could not been better. My boss is like in a high five in the corner with the shoulders, like, yeah, nice job. I'm a calm self. I'm a student selling. I had the books at home studios in my car, and I'm answering objections. And an hour goes by. It was like the perfect sales call. It could not have been better. And the call comes to a close and my guy says to me, ari, this is great, man. This is. We love this. Give us a call a couple of weeks, follow up with us, and we'll move this thing forward. I said to myself, oh, thank you. And so I said my goodbyes and I took my arm and I'm reaching for the phone in the middle of the table as I'm reaching for the phone and I'm reaching for that off button. By complete accident, rather than the off button, I hit the mute button instead. They were like right next to each other. I hit the wrong button and a small click happened and they thought I hung up the phone.

What happened then?

In that split second, a voice inside of me said, ari, go to the dark side.

Listen in, you know, going, no one's ever gone before. So I literally just pulled my thumb back for a couple seconds. They started talking amongst themselves, thinking I had left the call.

What would you imagine? I mean, this is not a trick question, but what do you imagine they would have said after a call like that?

Ideally, man, I really like that guy. Let's work with him.

Exactly. That's what you're supposed to be hearing right after an hour. But I'll share with you what they said, forbidden word for word. I'll never forget. It's why we're here today. What they said was this. They said, we're not going to go with him. Keep using him for more information and make sure we shop someplace else cheaper. Knife and heart twist. I was in a state of shock. I hit the off button, I lit the wall, said to myself, what did I do wrong? I was competent, I gave value, I answered objections. And the first big epiphany hit me. And that was this. That somewhere along the way it has become socially acceptable not to tell the truth to people who sell.

Right?

It's okay to say things like, sounds good. Send me information. Oh, we're Definitely. What?

We're definitely interested.

Yep, interested.

Let's circle back.

I have any intention of buying.

Right.

And then I asked myself, why were they afraid to just tell me the truth? I'm okay with the truth. And I realized that moment that there is like this invisible kind of flow of like pressure that flows underneath your sales process with a pre sale with somebody. And unless you remove that pressure pre sale, they'll always have their guard up and won't tell you the truth. You have to chase them to get what you need and play what I call the sales game. And that's where I led to my whole concept called the unlock the sales game mindset. Your goal is not to focus anymore on the end goal of the sale, but your goal is to focus on the truth. And that became my whole philosophy and kind of revolution around how to change the way you think with a whole body of work around that, with languaging and processes. And that's the premise behind our whole philosophy, is that you can make a lot more sales by focusing on trust and not the end goal of the sale at first. And that'll kind of change everything.

Yeah.

I'm curious, knowing, knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently on that call?

Great question all the time. And the funny thing about that is the answer to that is that I never would have had the call.

It's the pre work. Right.

Because I would have got the truth in the beginning to have avoided the chasing process and chasing game. And that's what happens is we end up in this chasing game with people. We tell us what we want to hear, we get seduced with that. We assume, oh my God, they're really interested and we get in this kind of chase mode and we start pursuing people and we kind of lose ourselves. And then we wonder, well, God, a huge pipeline. I got a few sales, but I'm doing well. I'm busy, I'm making lots of calls, I got a huge database, but nothing's happening.

Yeah, so. So it's all that. It's that pre work, huh? That's. So walk us through. Was that like, did you just change right then at the spot? Like, oh, okay, this is.

How can I quit? I quit my job like a couple of months later and I said to myself, man, I've got to craft a code on this. If I can change the whole industry in selling and help people stop chasing people, what a revolution to helping people get their human humanness back and not degrade themselves and not have to pursue people and that Kind of led to my whole kind of system and process where I basically challenged the whole notion of how we've been taught to sell after all these years from all the gurus who told us that our goal is to close the sale, our goal is to pursue someone, don't give up, don't be a wimp, keep chasing. And I realized that whole. That's a very dysfunctional process having to do that with people. But if you can get smart about this and build trust with them at hello.

Then. Because my whole thing is the sale is lost at hello, not the end of the process. It's lost over here, not over here. But we always been taught to believe we lost it at the end, but it was lost at the beginning. So my whole system and philosophy, I'll share with you some ideas today is ways to engage people in the beginning of your process. That builds trust from the beginning, not the end.

Amazing. So just want to make sure the listeners know. Can we apply this all to online stuff? You know, selling their own products, affiliate products, all that. That's all applicable here, right?

Yeah. So all the language that you use, the language in your copy, in your websites and your ads, it's all language, trust based language. I've developed a whole bunch of work around that. Plus, even if your folks are doing online marketing, but they actually have a phone call with a customer over the phone, that's a conversion point on a high transaction. Well, that's where this applies even more. Because if you're not building trust in that phone call and you're over educating. Yeah, that's the whole thing. What happens is people do free consulting a lot on those phone calls.

That's it. I know I've been guilty of that many.

I mean, we're definitely both guilty of that.

This is why we have a podcast, Ari. We don't sell typically. We kind of sell pseudo sell.

But educate us. Let's, you know, let's kickstart this thing. And yeah, yeah.

What happens a lot of times you get somebody on the phone and you know they have a problem you can solve and your gut says yourself, oh, I can help you. Let me show what I've got. And then you start just to unload on them. I'm not saying. But you start to over educate and give value and at the end of the call they're like, wow, this is great. Let me think about it and we'll let you know. And you're like, what? I just. So my idea is very contrarian. My whole thought process is basically not to give value pre sale, but instead to provide clarity on their problem, not value on the solutions. What I discovered was that potential clients don't care about how you solve their problem. What they care about is if you're the one to solve it or not. So the entire time they're going, do I trust him? Do I trust him? Do I trust not how it works or the features and benefits? See, we're so programmed and conditioned to kind of just educate on what we do. Case studies, stories, demos, benefits. What happens is we're in our head the entire time. We don't go into their world and going deep on their problems. So our whole system is based upon the idea that your goal is unpack their problems. Like a doctor patient relationship. So when you questioning.

Yeah, yeah.

When you see a doctor and you say my shoulder hurts, he goes, where is it? There. Oh yeah, right there.

Oh.

He goes, okay, I think I know what it is. The problem is you got ligament issues and blood vessels were problem. Here's a script and you know to go fix the problem. What we do in sales, if you're conditioned the old ways, when we hear I got a shoulder pain, we say, hey, I've got the medicine for you here, you're going to love. It's great, it'll solve your. And the guy's like, well wait, we're missing something here.

Yeah.

And that's the missing piece of trust which I've, I've been working on for many years.

Awesome. Okay, so yeah, I guess, well, what does that process look like then? So pre sell, I guess walk us through your framework and some, and you know, some strategies we can kind of try for ourselves.

Sure. I mean, well, I mean first of all. So in our model, for instance, we've developed for a consultant consulting side of the business, we developed what we call a trust box. Okay, so another term for that, a shock and a box from all the world. But basically we call it a trust box. Right. And so our trust box gets sent to people in the mail in advance of a consultation with us to pre frame the fact that we're not going to chase them, we're not going to follow up with them, we're not going to close them. We let them know in advance that what they come to expect is not going to happen.

So we're not afraid. I advise my clients to tell their clients this, that they are a trust based firm. Meaning we don't chase people, we don't close people, we don't pursue people. We literally say that to people we don't use any sales techniques that all of us hate, and we ask permission. Are you okay with that?

Yeah.

I would say their guard is probably down, Right.

For the most part, it's pretty much obliterated.

Yes. Yeah.

And so now we create this bubble of trust with them, like kind of the space where they feel comfortable telling us the truth of where they stand, because that's the whole goal. See, what happens a lot of times, imagine an iceberg, right? There's the top of the iceberg, and below the iceberg. What happens a lot of times is we operate at the top of the iceberg with people. Like, they tell us, well, here are my problems. Here's what's going on my business. You're like, oh, okay, yeah, I can help you with that. Yeah. And we stay up here at the top level. What we don't go is below the iceberg. And the other aspect is where the real admission of the problems are and the ROI is. So, like, I'll give you an example. Someone said to you, yeah, I'm having trouble with my. With my. My sales aren't doing very well. And you might say, well, and here's my phrase. Tell me a little bit more about that. So every time you hear someone tell you a problem that they have, you don't just say, oh, well, let me say how I can solve that. You say, tell me a little bit more about that. Then they start to open up to you in ways they wouldn't before. They start to go into details. You can ask questions like, what Holland's been going on for, how much you've been losing because of that. And here's the key languaging I've developed, and this is the key. That element flips this to go or no go. And that is this. I say, let me ask you a question. Is this a priority for you to solve, or is something going to put the back burner?

These are questions that no one asks in a sales conversation.

No one does because they're programmed to react. When they hear the problem, they provide the solution. What they don't do is they don't get out of their own head and walk into the client's world and stay in there for a long time. Because the goal here is shift your mindset to go in their world and stay in there as long as you can until they tell you the magic phrase, which is this. How can you help me?

I love it. So you're basically pulling. You're extrapolating stuff. You're not pushing. And I Can see I'm on the right track here. And then, and then essentially they're asking permission of you. So the tables have just been flipped at that point.

They're essentially saying, okay, sell me something. Yeah, exactly.

They're the ones moving forward. We have to pull them forward. See all that tension of well I can move forward and hey, let's go. See, that's where we're get stuck. We don't build trust with people, we create tension with them. But if you can stay in the world and have the right question to go deep with them and just be patient and stay in the moment with them, they're going to say to you one of two things, either how can you help me? Or how do you work? It's so formulaic, it's amazing. Once they start telling you that, then you can walk them through what I call. I developed my own piece of IP called a roadmap sales roadmap where you walk somebody through a visual image of what your process is to solve their problem, not your solution to solve the problem. So for instance, let's say you sell convergence software or some tools online. See what most people do is they go, great, let me show you a demo.

Yep. With no interaction. Yeah, yeah.

You want to log in? I'll show you the demo right now. Because.

They don't care about the demo. They don't even want to see the demo. I mean think about it. A client's got a problem, what does he want? It's solved. He doesn't want to go through an opt in page, a phone call, a demo, a follow up email and proposal. We do as marketers, we put a button, a whole bucket sets in between that. But they don't want that, right? Yeah, they just want like, they just want their problem solved. They don't want to deal with these opt ins. But we do it because we're marketers. But if you think about it psychologically, all they want is someone they can trust.

To solve their problem. They don't want a demo, promise you that. But they, they, but we think they do, so we got to jump in. So instead what you, you basically do is walk them through a visual way to describe how you solve their problem. Which we help work with clients on where it's like a visual map that says phase one is we basically do discovery phase, uncover your challenges and face. There's ways of kind of architecting that call where you don't have to pitch your solution or do free consulting. That's kind of the general model around those Consultations?

Yeah. No, it's interesting. I don't know what author said this, maybe it was Stephen King, I'm not sure. But something to the effect of, like most authors hate writing books, but they love having written a book. Right. It's something to that effect. And I kind of see what you're saying is the same thing. If, if I'm looking for a solution to a problem and you're demoing the software for me, you're showing me the writing the book, you're not showing me the book already being written.

Yeah.

And a funny thing about that is that people who sell have a tendency to sell the future. They say, hey, if you get the software, you'll get this. If you'll get. Imagine a year from now, we try and sell the future. People can't think past tomorrow, right?

They can't.

And we're selling the future. Oh, yeah. If you buy my Solution, you'll have 25 new clients. Well, the guy can't think back the next 10 minutes. So we tell you, don't sell the future anymore. Focus on their current problems. Go deep on those. Have them, help them articulate, amplify what those issues are. Have them admit to themselves they want to solve it. Like psychologist and a patient, you know, if you can't admit the problem, you're not going to solve it.

No.

And it just kind of ends the chasing game. You can onboard somebody on one call. I've got a course coming up called the One Call Sale. Robbie, teaching this basically how to, how to basically architect a phone call so it does not contain a sales pitch, but they onboard with you without resistance. So the whole idea here is remove the pressure, build trust without you having to sell what you have.

Yeah. So I have a question. You mentioned you send out this, this trust box.

Right.

And then you also have this call. How do you bridge that gap, like from the trust box landing in their, their personal inbox at home to actually getting them on a call? Like, how do you bridge that? How do you get them on the call? Especially if you're telling them from the beginning, we're not going to sell you anything. We're not going to, we're not going to do any of that stuff you don't like.

Yeah, yeah. So great question. So there's different models. We have one are people. There are people who come in and literally ask for consultations. They know they can be booked, but there some who don't, who would get the box anyway? So the ones who are going to be booked obviously are Going to get scheduled. But let me tell you one caveat on that. It might help your listeners as well to do these phone calls is we never do an initial call with someone. On Zoom. We only do an audio call because on Zoom, you meet somebody for the first time, half their brain looking at your hair and your background and the shelf, and they're not focused. It's amazing how much you can, how awkward it can become after a while. Somebody don't even know. On Zoom, it's like, oh, hi, nice to meet you. So we tell people only do the phone first. It's an audio track. It's one single track. You listen, you ask questions, and you can focus on that. So anyways, the languaging for the phone call that my team uses to call back above the boxes, they simply call back and say, I'm just giving you a call to see if you received the box that we sent you in the mail last week. That's all they say.

It's so simple.

That's it. And the person goes, yeah, yeah, I did call. Thank you so much. And they just say, that's great. Just want to make sure you got it okay. And they go, yeah, thank you so much. As if like the call's over so they're relaxed. And then my team just goes, okay, not a problem. I'm just curious, what was it that prompted you to an interest in trust based selling? What was it about your situation right now that might be interesting? That. What was it about your background that caused you to reach out to us? And then they just open up like a whole, like a dam opens up. They just tell, oh, well, this and that and this and that. And they simply say, look, if you. And here's the key, languaging. If you'd be open to it, the word open. That word open replaces the word interested. You use the word open. If you'd be open to it, I'd be happy to see if we can arrange a conversation with one of our consultants, see if they can chat with you about that. Would you be open to that? So the word open. See, the beautiful thing the word open is it doesn't force them into a yes or a no. You see, it gives them room to kind of.

Tell you the truth. So we've optimized the languaging on these phrases to basically build that trusted off of their being cornered or being pressured for the next step.

That's fascinating because that is. Yeah, it's giving them permission with no real tension or friction. They're just like, yeah, I'm open to it. And then it continues. Yeah, yeah.

So all the language we developed is all based on removing all the pressure out of the process. I'll give an example of that. Here's a great example. So I'll ask you and your listener to take an oath with me, a verbal oath, to remove this phrase forever from your vocabulary. And for the guys on this phone or gals who are been in sales for a long time, this might hurt just a bit.

Okay, go for it.

I'm going to ask you to never again use the word follow up ever again in the sales process. Ever again. Because what's the only industry in the world that uses the word follow up? Sales.

Yep. Right. Sales, Follow up.

I'm giving your follow up. They're like, oh, he's calling to chase me. So there's a classic. A few other classic ones like touch base. And what else is there?

Circle back or circle back.

You replace all that with this one. Instead you say, I'm just giving you a call to see if you have.

Any feedback, any feedback on our previous conversation, any feedback on our proposal, any feedback on our last meeting. See, feedback goes backwards, away from the sale. And that takes the pressure out. And what happens is fascinating. What happens is they just start telling you the truth.

It's a magic.

I mean, that's, that's you're. It just sounds like everything you're doing is just putting the guard down. They're open, they're. They're accepting whatever you have to come, but you're letting them lead and you're.

Avoiding putting any pressure at any point in the process on them.

By consciously removing the pressure from the process, you're sending a message. You're saying, I'm not going to play that game.

Yeah. And I'm not going to do anything to you that you don't want to do. So you just, you can trust me to tell me the truth. I'm okay if it's a yes or a no. I'll walk away at any moment if we're not a fit. Because my whole thing is about a fit. And I would say to somebody or my clients would say to somebody, look, if we're not a fit, I'm okay with that. Just that alone is like.

Whoa.

Yeah. In a world where no one is thinking this, they're, they're push, push, push, or too quick, like trying to close the deal right now. Like not, not seeing things through, relationship wise.

Have you heard of aikido? The martial art? Japanese martial art.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And Karate. Karate is more linear. When someone comes at you, attack back, you. You push against resistance, against resistance. But aikido, if someone comes at you, you kind of divert their energy redirected. So everyone gets hurt at the end of that. And I adopted this aikido underneath my philosophy, where you use the languaging not to overcome resistance, you diffuse resistance. That makes sense. I'll give you an example. So I've got a whole body of work around objections, and this was some fun stuff here. So let's do a classic one. Let's say someone, you know, if someone says, you know, I know you don't do sales. Let's just say someone said, your price is too high or your fee is too high, you're selling consulting. You know, what's the typical reaction to that? That you would imagine people would say to that your fee is too high. How do people react to that?

Yeah, I can't afford it right now. Or it's not in the budget. My wife said no.

Yeah. Or the person would say, well, we're better. We can help you with that. We try and overcome it. So in our world, we don't overcome objections, we diffuse them. So if someone says, in our world, you know, your price is too high, what we say is, you're absolutely right.

It can be. Here it is. It can be perceived as high. If you haven't had a chance to actually use the software, get the results you want. You're absolutely right. From the outside in, it can be seen that way. You see, that's true. The truth is, it's from the outside in is perceived as high. So we have language in the diffuses, all that resistance that kind of melts away the moment.

Yeah. I feel like you're just. I'm sure you've scientifically figured out any kind of pressure point. I guess it's like, hey, all right, that one. How do we. How do we basically invert that?

I don't know. Well, I was going to say. I don't know if I should say this publicly on the podcast, but when. When somebody's, like, pitching me on a sales call, like, pretty much the end of every call, the way I get out of the call is, well, I've got a business partner, so let me. Let me confer with my business partner, and I'll get back to you on that one. That's my way out. Every single sales call. That's why Joe and I never get odd sales calls at the same time.

How would you go about that?

So what's the Diffusion for something like.

That, a partner relationship, that's a classic one, is that people use that to avoid being chased and put pressure on. That's the problem with that problem. But let's role play a little bit. So why don't you kind of tell me what you just said to me.

So, yeah, I mean, everything is looking. And I do the same thing you were talking about earlier. Well, I'll kind of give them a little bit of hope. Even though in my mind I know this thing's probably not going to happen. Which when you brought that up, I'm like, I never thought about it, but that's very true. So the way I would probably end the conversation is like, yeah, this sounds, this sounds promising. This sounds pretty good. Let me just have a chat with my business partner and I'll get back to you on it.

Not a problem. Not a problem at all. That's fine. It sounds good.

Cool. So that's, it's just really not an objection that's. That's worth trying to battle against, I guess.

Right. Hold on, I'm not done yet.

Okay.

So that's one key. When I say that's not a problem, what that does is diffuses the resistance. You see, you back away, go, oh, good, he accepted it. See. So when you say that, when I say it's not a problem, that creates space.

To allow me to re engage again. You see? So I said to you, it's not a problem. You go, oh, good. And then we paused. And then I'll say next to you next. So that's not a problem. It's not a problem at all. And I'll wait a moment, let it breathe, because there's a lot of tension there and to stay calm. And I would say, well, not a problem. What, what kind of questions do you anticipate your partner might have around this I can possibly help you with?

Well, we just need to make sure that this makes sense within the context of our, our budget right now. And I need to confer with him to get an accurate number on, you know, what we can put into something like this right now.

Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. No problem at all. Well, where do you think we should go from here?

Oh, stop for a second. I'm giving you some key phrases here.

Yes, I like that though.

That's you thinking.

Well, what I really liked about what you just said at the end there is now you're sort of putting the ball in my court to tell me when I'll follow up with you.

The whole goal is putting the ball on their court the entire time so they don't feel like we're trying to pressure them. Make a decision. Because if you own the moment, then you've got to figure out where to go from here. I'm not going to sort of just back off and I mean, I'm not going to hang in there. But the point is, I'm telling you through my languaging, it's okay. You can tell me the truth. I'm okay with a no. Yeah, Yeah, I like that a lot.

I mean, you're literally putting him in the driver's seat. Yeah. You as the salesperson or whoever, you're just guiding. It's like, you know, you're supporting them in their choices, but that's just building trust along the entire journey.

See, what I discovered is that to differentiate your business, it's hard to differentiate on your product anymore. It's so commoditized out there. Everyone's got the similar products. But if you differentiate your sales process and that becomes your innovation, you're different with people and the way you communicate with them, that becomes your category of one differentiation. The way in which you treat people in your pre sale process becomes your differentiation, not your solution.

Yeah. So the approach is so different and unique that when people feel that from you in your process, they can't help but to kind of just engage. If they feel like there's marketing coming at them heavy and hard, they're shutting down.

This is interesting. This is fascinating. I think a lot of us just, and I know, weird example, but I was just looking through my emails yesterday and you know, there's certain people, you just kind of be like, ah, just wait a minute. Yeah, it's like it's not a priority right now. And some of those get pushed out for a while. But then I had this like realization yesterday. I was like, what are, like, what if I just said like straight up, like top of mind what I think, like, nope, don't think it's a good fit. And then like start, just start axing away at these in a helpful, happy way, you know, and not being a jerk about it.

But screw you, get out of my inbox.

No, but I was thinking about, I'm like, man, this, like, because this will weigh on all of it. You know, if there's something that's undone or someone's out, like, why not just be honest? And you see it like you said, like, oh, yeah, we'll definitely follow up. Or you're definitely, yeah, we'll, we'll Circle back, we'll do all this stuff. And I'm never going to use those, sorry, in context example. But why? Yeah, why string people along? We're just let them set them off to somewhere else. There's millions of people, billions of people on this planet. So yeah, that was just a one example, being honest.

I'll tell you a story about that actually. Sure. I had a guy recently call my office, got through. My team got to me on a scheduled phone call. You know, I picked it up, he goes, Mr. Galfer? I said, yeah. He goes, my name is Mike Johnson. I changed the name. It's a big company. I'm with XYZ company. We're looking to bring someone to change our sales process and our company thinking we're looking at you and two other people we'd like to know. First of all, why should we go with you? Why are you the best and give me your best sales pitch.

He says this to me, you're like, let's do this.

I took a deep breath. I'm a human being too. It was a big company. I just stayed calm, lowered my voice and I said to him, well, isn't that interesting?

And I just paused and I said, because over here at our company we have a very similar process to you where we asked a couple questions, see if we're going to fit together and if we're a good fit, we decide where to go from there. And I said to him, would you be open to that?

And then I didn't hear a word. I'm like, jesus, still there. Then I could have the breath, like he breathed across the phone, like, whoa. He lowers his voice and he says, oh, okay. What kind of questions do you have for me?

Next thing I know, in five minutes I discover one, he's not a decision maker, two, he has no budget, and three, he's just curious as to what I do. And after five minutes off, he went to YouTube for some of my stuff and I hung up the phone. And that just saved me months and months of what I call Hopium.

Yeah, look at that.

Drug that we.

Get in the inbound calls. We go, oh, yeah, I got the call, honey, this is the year Fiji this year. And you're excited and you call them back, you chase them and you hope they're going to call you and then never ends up going anywhere. So this, my process is detox for Hopium, basically.

I think it's a great process. And this is something where I could see it layered in, in things like emails, sequence through surveys, through Asking them specific questions to get some data straight from the horse's mouth. Quote unquote.

Yeah. So on the marketing side on autoresponders and all that, see, what usually goes in there is content around the solution. Right, right. See, so our, we teach our clients that you, you do not use your solution content pre market and your autoresponders. Instead you put in there, you describe their issues and problems in ways that can't describe themselves. They gotta feel you understand their issue, their world. And it's such a deep way they resonate with your message. They're not being sold the solution because it's too premature to offer the solution before they resonate with you knowing their problem.

Yep.

So we separate marketing content pre sale and post sale. And pre sale is only problem based content, not solution based content.

That changes headlines, changes ad copy, that changes all the content pre marketing away from the solution. Which is. It's so countercultural to even say that. Because we're taught to basically deliver content value, keep giving them more, but they don't want more.

We're up to our eyes. We're all at home or wherever watching Netflix and other YouTube. We got enough content, we're good. We need problem solved now.

Come on. The world doesn't need more content.

You're right. Dang it. Should we go to a one day a week show?

Man.

This is the last episode of this podcast.

Just kidding. That will not happen. No, I think this is absolutely fascinating. And just one other thing I picked up on from you is breathing and pausing and all of that. Can you. Yeah.

I'm so glad you just noticed that. Because what triggers rejection and pressure with people is half is languaging and half is delivery. This is verbal. So if you start talking fast, like, hey.

The energy and the momentum makes their guard go up. But when you slow things down. I know it sounds almost super slow when I slow things down because we're not used to that. You guys are kind of quick like me. We all talk.

We are quick.

We're Internet guys, you know, that's why I'm my background. But when you're talking to somebody on the phone who give you potential client, when you slow things down and create pauses, what happens is they naturally want to engage in those pauses. It draws people into you. When you slow things down and you pause, if you speed things up, which we do naturally, when we feel like our opportunities there, we can't help it, we kind of. Oh great. How about we. Then it's over. You've lost them because they can sense that you're moving them to a next step, you see?

Yeah.

When they feel you're present with them in the moment and you're not moving to a next step, that's when they release themselves. To tell you the truth, the minute you start to move things forward, prior to that you've lost them. Even though it sounds like they're going to buy something, good luck chasing them.

That's big.

So our whole thing is. Our whole thing is no chasing ever again by by end running that process earlier on in the model so you don't have to end up chasing ghosts. People who tell you yes, but they're not going to go anywhere.

It's happened far too many times for me. I know a lot of other folks that are listening and this is just such. I'm not going to call it simple, but it's very, it's obvious but not obvious things to just modify and tweak. It's. They're tweaks more than like here's a brand new strategy now it's not an.

Incremental tactics to make things better. What you're doing right now, it's a wholesale shift and letting go of your mindset of focusing on the end goal that's the key piece of the mindset, but then also languaging to activate this. I'll give you an example of this which would be helpful for your listeners. Let's do a real scenario. Let's say you're having a first call with somebody over the phone. Say you're self consulting or something. And a first call and you're having a chat with them on the phone. It's a good opportunity. You can tell it's a good. Could be turned to something really well and call comes to a close. Usually in a normal model we'd say well hey, great, thank you so much. Let's schedule another call, let's have a cup of coffee. Let's move things where Forward?

Forward, Forward, Forward. Right.

But what happens if you move somebody forward and they aren't ready yet? What do you break right there at the beginning?

Trust.

Exactly. You break the trust. So same scenario, our model call is going well, good opportunity call comes to a close. Rather than saying hey, how about we go forward? What we say instead is this. We say.

Where do you think we should go from here?

And I'll say it again, where do you think we should go from here?

Yeah, I love it.

You know what's crazy about that? When you deliver it that way to somebody, first of all they're usually in a state of shock.

Yep. Total shock. Like, what do I do with that?

They're not used to being treated like a human being. They're used to being like a target. Right. They're not used to somebody humanizing the conversation. It's like, whoa. And then what happens is, here's funny. They start telling you the truth. They say things like, well, I've got one more question. What about it all starts coming out that. Hello?

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure much more personal too. Like these deeper layers you get lower down. It's not the tip of the iceberg.

Yeah, you go down the iceberg at the beginning of your process, you're not wondering at the end what happened anymore. Because usually at the end you manage your pipeline with deals that are pending and they either fall out or they come through. And you wonder what happened at the end. You're like, oh, no, guys, you lost it at hello. Not at the end.

Man.

All right, well, do you have anything else? There was a lot there and I love it.

I know I'm twisting your guys heads back and forth a couple times.

These are the best of episodes, though. Those are the ones that leave the impact.

Well, I was just in my mind, I'm thinking about the last handful of sort of sales calls I've been on where somebody was selling me something. And I'm kind of thinking of like, the variables where they, you know, they closed the deal versus didn't close the deal. And in almost every scenario I can think of, nobody's ever really closed the deal with me. Like on that first meeting, like, this is the first time I've ever talked to you. You reached out cold. We got on a call and they closed the sale. I can't even think of a time that that's happened. Almost all the times where we bought something that was like, quote, unquote, higher ticket. Right. Let's say $1,000 plus. It's always been a scenario where we built a relationship. We had a few emails back and forth. Maybe we had a call with no expectations. We were just kind of chatting and, you know, getting to know each other. And then eventually I came around and realized, I think I'm ready for their service. And then I reached out and said, hey, let's get on that, that, that call. I want to know more about what you can offer. And just thinking through how we've logically bought things, and you essentially just reverse engineered that for me.

That is so interesting what you just described to me, because that's based upon the Model where the salesperson thinks their goal is to build a relationship first before a sale can happen.

Right.

What we discovered in our research is you don't have to build a relationship first to create trust with people. You can create trust with people without a pre existing relationship. That's a radical thought because that will compress sales cycles. That compresses everything. Because we've been taught to believe. Hey, we got the. How's it going? Great. Nice to meet you. We're like, we're trying to like build rapport. And like this. What happens is social norms are created. We become their friend, they become their friend, and no longer is there a next step in the process that's obligatory or they don't want to ask you because you're friends. So what I share with my clients is do not. And this sounds totally radical, I know I'm warning in advance, do not attempt to build a relationship with somebody pre sale, but instead focus on their problem, diagnose it, have them see you as an authority, and then build trust that direction. And believe me, that will shave years in time and heartache off of chasing these people. Never come through.

Hmm. That is completely radical and makes so much sense at the same time. I mean, it's, it's, it's so true because I know I, I default to build rapport, have a relationship, maybe become a friend of these folks, my clients. And you know, and I know, yeah, it's tough to take them to the next level or present them something where, you know, you know, maybe it's, I don't know, it feels like it gets murky, you know, when there's a deeper relationship.

Once they're on board, post sale, then sure, be their friend, go golfing, I don't care, whatever you. But that's, that's after they're on board, not before. Yeah, yeah, like before. It's, it's just kind of a fake awkwardness that you're trying to build rapport with someone. Doesn't mean you're not even their friend anyways. You don't know them. You're. It's a customer. It's a different relationship. We've been taught. It's a quick story for you guys. I spoke before COVID at 500 person networking. I was a keynoter in Sydney, I think it was in February or something. And the 500 people in the room, big networking kind of group. And after my talk, people come up to me, say, hey, I like your stuff. And they told me confidentially that they know everybody in the room. But they aren't making any sales. I said, well, what you get 500 people, you're networking now. Yeah, but I know them all. They know me. We have a relationship with them, but no one's buying. I said, well, that's the problem. You're trying to build a relationship first before focusing on their problem. It's such a radical shift in how we've been taught to believe that sales actually happen, you know.

Yeah, well, I'm going to think hard on these because they're. Yeah, just, just simple, just swapping words out is just a big enough radical change. But just all the kind of just inverting some of these pre existing thoughts along the wholesale, pre sales cycle will definitely change everything and exponentially grow and bring our time back as well.

See what this does is it flips the numbers game concept. You know how sales is a numbers game idea?

Yeah.

The idea is we've been taught over the years that the more contacts you make, the more sales you make.

Sure.

Yep. This reverses that. So less volume, higher conversion.

That sounds good to me. I'm good with that. Well, Ari, let's wrap this up. And how can folks dive deeper into your frameworks? I know you're working on a training as well. It sounds like.

Yeah, I would just go to unlock the game.com just like it sounds. And I've got a mastery in the mindset course. They can get access to have a new course coming out called the one call sale which will basically take. We talked about and kind of put into a program as well. And I'm watching the course all the time. So I think as long as you're open minded to let go of what you're used to doing because the world has changed if you don't adapt to. I think, I believe that trust will become a new currency of how business is being done in the new economy. And if you don't change the way you approach your market on a trust based model, you're playing the numbers game tough.

I would agree with that 100%. So yeah. Well we'll link that in the show notes for you guys listening and, and make sure that you guys get that. Ari, thank you so very much. This has been amazing, mind blowing and again, those are always the best episodes. So thank you for your time.

Been a pleasure, guys. Thank you so much.

I'm in go time mood.

Matt, you're in go time.

Matt wanted to stand up to do this outro.

I thought it would be healthier.

Healthier. I'm going to walk after this. That'll be healthy. Okay, Sound good?

Sounds good.

Not blazing 100 degree outside.

Yes, this is the first time in a while it is. Not blazing outside.

Not. All right, Ari, discuss, discuss.

Ari, thoughts?

Thoughts?

Yeah.

I really, really enjoyed this episode. If I'm being totally true. Transparent. You know, we. We get. When somebody books on to be on our show, we've got these intake forms and they fill out a whole bunch of questions. Like, what do you want to talk about some of your bio? You know, what's the.

Your URL?

Give us your headshot. Like there's a bunch of questions we ask him. And he was. When I. When I saw the stuff that Ari submitted, I was kind of like, yeah, we've talked about a lot of that before. Like, you know, I like talking about this kind of stuff, but we've kind of covered it before. So I kind of came into this episode thinking, you know, we're going to make a good episode out of it. But I'm not like super passionate and excited about the topic.

But once we got to like, specifically.

Specifically, like sales. Yeah, like phone sales and those kinds of concepts, they're not really like my sweet spot of things like sales guys.

Yeah, they're not. But that.

But this episode, like, really surprised me. Like, while we were in the interview, like the whole time, Joe and I were kind of like nudging at each other going, this is actually like a lot better than we.

Like, this is really freaking great stuff. Well, it can be applied in, I mean, everything. And at the end of the day, we're all salespeople, even to our spouses.

That's true.

You know, our kids, our whoever.

Yeah, I sold your wife drugs yesterday.

Wow. I have a. I need a chat with Heather.

I mean, she's a big coke addict.

Jesus.

What?

I'm out of here.

I gotta go home.

That's fake news, by the way.

She's not painting my wife. My lovely.

So you brought her in my story.

Drink until she was 23.

Goody good.

Heather, you're the one who was talking about how we sell to our wives.

I wasn't going to mention the drunk.

That's supposed to be a secret.

All right. No, but in all reality.

I feel like this was like he gave us a toolkit of. Here's a bunch of grab bag of things that you should be aware of during a sales process. Yeah, mainly the pre sale, but also on a sales call, like all the different language patterns and the word, like don't use. Interested, use, open. Are you open to this? Art, don't use follow up or circle back or blah blah, blah, blah. You know, it's, it's get asked for feedback on that thing.

Oh no, I love that. Like he's sort of reshifting the language patterns so that they're, they're less the norm that people are expecting from a salesperson. But one thing that I found like really fascinating and it's something that it's like, now that it's been said is super obvious to me, but before was said, I never really crossed my radar is the fact that when we get like a sales call when, when there's a salesperson calling us scheduled, unscheduled, whatever, we have this tendency to lie to them. Right?

Well, you know, most people do. Yeah.

Or at the very least present false hope to them.

Right.

We like by the.

You don't want to be dick and say no on the phone typically where it's like, all right, well, yeah, we'll give them a little bit of time and spat out their stuff. Stuff.

Yeah. Well, so by the end of the call, it's like most of the time we're ending the call with like, yeah, this sounds really good. I'll get back to you in a couple days with, with an answer like, I'm leaving some hope in there. Where in my mind a lot of times I'm thinking, I'm not going to pay for this. Like, this isn't for us. I'm. It's too much. But for whatever reason, I still like to leave a sense of false hope in the mind of the person I'm talking to.

Comfort thing, right? Yeah.

For me, I mean, it's 100% doing it for myself and not for them. In fact, if I was doing it for the person on the other end of the call, like, the best thing I could do for them is tell them, look, I'm going to stop you right here. We're not going to buy this. Well, yeah, that's like, stop wasting their time.

My, my default to be like, yeah, you would just give them a blank check and be like, oh yeah, take all my money. Yeah.

But yes.

No.

You know, it's like in all reality, the thing that's most beneficial to them is not that false hope at the end of the call. The thing that's most beneficial to them is, let's just cut the brass taxes. Is this going to happen or is this not going to happen? Right.

Like, and that's where exactly. And that was. The truth is yesterday in my inbox, I was just looking at Things I was like, man, I got a lot of people reaching out now because it's like dramatically gotten higher in frequency of emails than people from the show, outside of the show, but asking to hop on calls or do a collaboration, promote my product, partner up on this thing. They're all amazing and they're all people that I respect and like. But at the same time, like, there were a couple people I was like, I'm gonna be totally honest with you. And I even said this, and these are pretty big folks. I'll tell you afterwards, because I haven't. I was like, this is gonna bomb to our list. Yeah. Like I said straight up. Like, that ain't gonna fly. Yeah. And here's what I would suggest. And I gave him suggestions, but I'm like, hey, I just want to save you time. And so you're, you know, I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze is literally what I wrote. I'm like, I would have never said that shit. But I was just like, you know what? I want to help them help me too. And we don't need a follow up after this. I mean, maybe a thank you emo or I'm like, I'm happy to maybe discuss that strategy with you of like, here's how I think you can improve. Maybe that turns into something. But like, no, like, yeah, there's a lot of agendas I feel like out there and you know, sales agendas are one of them that a lot of us feel like we have to kind of go with the motions of being this nice or this, this, this version of like, no, no, let's play on the surf. Like, you don't need to do that.

There's like the societal norm that exists around a sal and the person on the other side of the line, like the relationship.

There's like this overall though, like, outside of even sales, just think of like people wanting to hang out with you. Like, take it to a personal level. Yeah, like, just cut his. Like, I think I did this with a friend recently and I won't name the name, but he was like, hey, I want to go. Yeah, you want to go hang out at this party? And like, not a good time for that.

So that's why you didn't come to my birthday?

Well, yes, and 20 others, but it's like, I just didn't want to go. Like, ain't for me right now.

Yeah, circle back next time.

I didn't say circle back, but it's like, it's not like having to make some excuse up and do like, well.

This should be a lesson to sales people, though. If you follow the sort of normal patterns that salespeople follow, you're going to continue to get this sort of normal responses that people you're selling to give. Right. And at the end of the day, that's like, really the big problem here is you've been trained as like a salesperson, if you do sales, to do it this way and to close the sale by the end of the call and, you know, don't take no for an answer and just kill all the objections and all that kind of stuff by that.

By a long time. Like, a lot of the training I know you would give me and other folks that we respect, they were. Yeah, they would adhere to that philosophy.

But, like, I know he. The point was sort of debated a little bit at the end of the episode. But when I do look at, like, the stuff that we've bought, like when we've hired agencies to run things in our business for like a high ticket amount or we've paid like a large fee for consulting or that kind of thing, it has always been people that we've had prior relationships with. Like, we've never. And, you know, he sort of said, you don't even need that. You don't need that. But still, I would argue that in our business, that's been really beneficial. The people who have approached our business in that way, it's worked for us. You know, some names that come to mind, like, we hired Davis Schloss for a while to run our Facebook ads. We hired Kurt Molly for a while for Facebook stuff. Both those guys, we had relationships that existed years prior to them, finally, to us reaching out to them and saying, I think we're ready for your services now. Charlie Valor, he's another one. We're going to be working with him on some. Some stuff to help grow our show.

Joe Kearns.

Joe Kearns is another one. Like all of these guys that we talking to now, we built a relationship with them. We had some really good rapport. We've gotten to a point where we really trust them. We know that they know what they're talking about. And now we're going to them and saying, I think we're ready for what you have to offer now, you know, So I don't know.

I think they both work.

I think. I think there's something said for both of them.

Definitely. Yeah. And I think what Ari is saying, there is, like, there's a fast track to that trust. 100%.

Yeah.

And like, for And I'm thinking of like in his scenario and his teams and whoever else does get on phones or has an application form for the consulting or does any of that kind of stuff, coaching and all that. This is huge because you probably do have a list of a bunch of names and I'm sure some of them are closer to the hole than others. That whole analogy, like, okay, obviously get the ones that are a little hotter in the pipeline, but at the same time, you know, you could probably start from the top 80, 20, you know, figure out the. And then use Ari's techniques. You're going to save a ton of time, it sounds like. Probably going to learn a ton more about these people. Probably going to get better people as customers. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how you wouldn't. Because you're asking questions and going deeper with these folks. So. Yeah, I mean.

Well, I also really like that he's constantly putting the ball back in the other person's court. In fact, like the example he gave with me, I kind of jumped in because I didn't. In the moment, I didn't realize he was pausing for the effect. I kind of thought like, okay, this is. He's expecting a response from me. But, you know, I really like the fact that he's like, okay, where do we go from here? What would you like to do next? You know, he's constantly putting it back in your court. So it's never like, all right, here's what we have to offer. Here's our package. Do you want to go? It's almost always like, you know, how would you like to proceed with this? What? You know, would you like to schedule another time to follow up kind of thing.

Yeah.

It's always putting it back in your court instead of like pressuring you to.

Act now it totally makes sales not feel like a pressure thing. Yeah. And it feels like any, any person that doesn't. That is like opposed to sales or feels like it's not for them. This is something to practice. Yeah. And just try it out and that, you know, use it in emails too. You know, he. Problem solution, you know, our problem based content. That's what he kept saying.

Yeah.

Is like, you know, if you just start solving problems and really it's true. If it's just content. Content in terms of like education or whatever, like training. Training content. Yeah, it's great. But at the same time, it kind of shows that we're not listening to that specific person. Obviously it's different with email because it's a little broader than a one to one. But at least, you know, with segmentation and surveying your list like, you know, like we've done just recently, we could start to get very problem focused on any topic that we're going to talk about for sure. And yeah, I think it's fascinating. So good stuff with Ari.

Good stuff.

And what was his URL? One more time. Unlockthegame.com Unlock that game. So again, just a reminder, get the notes hustleandflowchart.com comp c o m P those are your action guys, action tactics, strategies and money.

And so you have two weeks to get those. Get them. And then we have EZ Webinar. Our buds, our friends, we've known them for quite some time.

Casey Zman, the founder of EZ Webinars, we go back. I went to Blog World Expo with him. I think I actually knew him prior to this too, but that was around 2010. I hung out with him at Blog World Expo.

Isn't that when Pat Flynn was there? But he was just starting out.

Yeah, he was just very, very early. Didn't have a full room or maybe 20 people in to see him. And Ori Bengal, who's been on the show too. I hung out with Ori and Casey that whole weekend.

That'd be a fun weekend.

Yeah.

Not two guys I would see typically hanging with each other, but that would be a fun time.

Yeah.

Anyway, Easy Webinar is the reason why we're talking about this. Yes. So Easy Webinar we if you're anything webinars, it kind of lives up to. It does live up to its name. I, I urge you, if you're at all using webinars or about to go check out easy webinar@easywebinar.com hustle it's easywebinar.com hustle they have up to a 25%.

Off package for you for Hustle and Flowchart listeners.

That's correct.

So if you don't slash Hustle then they won't know you're a listener.

Make sure you do the slash hustle thing because I mean just kind of screwing yourself if you don't.

I mean unless you want to pay 25% more. We don't get a commission or anything. So we don't. It's up to you.

We're giving you the option. So anything webinars, they have you covered@easywebinar.com hustle and that's about it. Yeah.

If you like this episode, share it around. We've actually started to post some videos on YouTube over at HustleandFlowchart TV.

That's a cool URL, man.

HustleandFlowchart TV.

We have a cool header image on there now. I noticed.

Yeah, fiber.

You didn't even tell me that was made. I was like, whoa, hey, that's different. I love it. Stuff in the business is happening and I don't need to know about it.

It's better than our eyeballs being cropp from a different picture.

Anyway, go check out all that stuff and share it with the people that you think will love it.

If you love somebody, share this with them.

Only if they're interested.

But no, no, if you love them, you'd share it. If you don't share it with them, it means you don't like that person. So share this with anybody that fits that category.

So with my baby, share it. Okay. All right. I'll give you a.

She doesn't have to make sense of it.

She wants to listen to the troll.

Give her the extra downloads. Just download it on her behalf.

Just be like, dada, Dada, Dada's talking.

Give us that one extra download. Dada doesn't stop talking. Alrighty, folks. But really, seriously, if you know somebody that would like this episode, share it with them. We really appreciate it.

I hope you get the picture. That's all we're trying to say here. We appreciate you, though. And my microphone's dropping. I probably should stop talking.

Yes. This was our last one of the day, so now we're just loopy.

All right, happen.

Talk to you in the next one. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address, and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

Go get it.

We love you.