Bob Burg - Creating Influence Through Being A Go-Giver

Nobody's going to buy from you because you need the money, and nobody's going to buy from you just because you are, like, the nicest person in the world. They're going to buy from you because they believe they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so. That's the only reason why anyone should buy from you or from me or from anyone else. If you look at it that way, then doesn't it make sense that to the degree your focus is on the other person and providing value to them, that's the degree they're going to be much more likely to do business with you?

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy, My boy, Matt Wolf. Jo Fear. Hey, we're talking to a legend today.

Oh, my gosh, man. Yeah, this guy's a legend. He is one of those authors that. Because one of the first books we read when we were getting into marketing and business, and we're like, whoa.

That'S the key.

Yeah, yeah. We're talking to Bob Berg, the author of the Go Giver, which is the book we're talking about, and he's written many, many, many more. But that book was a game changer for us. Boom.

I was waiting to do that.

No, yeah, Bob Berg's on the episode today and, yeah, he's the original Go Giver. I mean, he has the Go Giver series. He has a whole bunch of stuff in that whole Go Giver way. His newest book is called the Go Giver Influencer. So these are both parables which are just really cool because there's a story and you can learn along the way. He does have other books, though, that you probably not have heard of. Not have heard of.

Yeah.

Haven't ever heard of.

Well, I've heard of them because we talked to him today.

We did. But you'll soon learn about these if you haven't already. But if you go to burgburg.com books with an S, you'll see the books on there. And he gives away some free chapters and stuff. But there's actually some more tactical books based off of these parables, which I think is really cool for anyone who hasn't explored those.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, this conversation's amazing. It was a long time coming for us because we've been getting to interview a lot of our sort of author heroes that sort of wrote some of the original books that got us into this game. So it's been amazing. And Bob Berg definitely fits into that mold. Also, make sure you Grab the notes for this episode.

Notes are key action guides.

Action guides?

Yeah.

I need to get a lexicon. I need to get that into my own personal.

Fitted in that lexicon of yours.

Yes.

Action guides. We are taking notes. We always take notes on every episode. But we're pulling out the gold for you. And you can get them for free. They're only two weeks of this episode going live. You can get them for free after that. They do go into the paid membership. You can still join that later if you want. Go to flowchart group.com. that's flowchartgroup.com. it's going to redirect you to our Facebook group. But there's a couple of questions. One of them asking you about your email address. Plug it in there. And then that's how we send your free action guides to you. And then hang out in the group because we're cool, I think. Can't really smell Matt in the group.

So works out definitely a benefit to you. Trust me.

I've been recording with them all day and trust me. Gotta go. Yeah.

One last note too. Make sure you stick around after the interview. Joe and I actually had a discussion about the interview after the interview itself. And I found the discussion that you and I had to be like a really impactful, powerful discussion. So I really encourage to stick around and listen to the interview as well as our post. Interview banter.

The banter section, the banter. Did we mention Pod Hacker? I mean, that's just our baby. I feel like we just got to just give it a look.

Yeah. Everybody go check out podhacker.com as well.

It's our. It's our other thing, so you'll see what we're up to. All right.

Use. Let's go talk to Bob.

Hey, Bob. Welcome to the show. Thank you for.

Hello, Joe. Hello, Matt. Great to be with y'.

All. Oh, man. This has been a long time coming for Matt and I. At least you probably didn't. You were not aware.

You don't know it's been a long time coming, but we do.

Yeah. Go Giver. Your. Your. Well, the first of the Go Giver series was one of those books that it was. It was Rich Dad, Poor dad, and your book were the two that just like. It was like the big clicks in our mind.

Wow. Well, I'm honored to know that. Thank you.

Yeah. And that's. And thank you for writing. I think it's been over. Was it 12 years ago or so?

Yeah, just about.

Wow, that's awesome.

It's been A while.

Yeah. And then you have the newer book of that edition. It's Go Giver. Influencer. Influencer, yes. With the er. And that one. I think that's going to be a very. Art is a very timely book, at least I think so. With the climate that we're in and everything going on.

Yeah, yeah, we'd like to think so. We kind of really felt that the way people communicated with each other. And in this case, we're not talking about an influencer like the person on Instagram. Instagram who. You know, we're talking more about how to influence, how to move people to a desired action. You know, usually within the context of a specific goal, which is what influence is though, you know, that's the definition. It's not really the essence. The essence of influence is pull as opposed to push. You know, we always ask how far can you push a rope? And most people will say not very far. And that's why most great influencers.

You never hear people say, wow, that David or that Mary, she is so influential. She has a lot of push with people. So she's influential. She has a lot of pull with people because that's what it is. It's really an attraction. A great influencer attracts people first to themselves and only then to their idea.

Yeah. And that was the note in the original Go Giver book. I know influence was, I believe, one of the laws. Yeah, Law three.

Yep.

That, that stood out. And it was. Yeah, it was really that first book that. Because Matt and I, we've always kind of given. Given through all content. It's just given a lot of content and to our network and it's, it's pretty wild and gets, you know, sometimes a little scary if you're just giving so much all up front. So speaking to. I'm kind of curious of how you, you would apply those principles kind of now in this world where there are a lot of folks kind of reinventing themselves.

Yeah. Well, you know, when we talk about giving in this sense, what we're really talking about is shifting your focus. And this is really the key, shifting your focus from getting to giving. Now when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing immense value to others, understanding that doing so is not only a more pleasant way of conducting business, it's the most financially profitable way of way as well. And not for some, you know, out there, woo woo. Kind of magical, mystical reasons. It actually makes very concrete sense, very logical sense when you think about it, when you're that person who can Take your focus off of yourself and place it on helping others play. Place it on discovering what someone else, what the other person needs, wants, desires, and helping them to get it. When you can help solve their problems and challenges, when you can help bring them closer to happiness, right, your focus is on them. People feel good about you. People want to get to know you. They like you, they trust you. They want to be part of your life, they want to be in relationship with you, they want to do business with you. They want to tell others all about you. So when we say giving, we're not, you know, we're not talking about, you know, just give away free stuff. Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to content marketing, you are doing that, but that's not what we're. That's a great strategy because what that does is it helps people get familiar with you. It helps people begin to trust your confidence, competence, as well as your character. Because when they do go back and forth with you, you're there to answer questions, to be able to help, to be able to guide people along the way and so forth. So it's a wonderful strategy to do that. But what we're really talking about in terms of, you know, when we say law number one, the law of value, we're talking about when they do buy, you're giving them such a wonderful all encompassing buying experience that they feel as though they're receiving much more in value than what they're paying for, which really is nothing more than tapping into.

A economic law which says people will exchange their money for that which they feel is of greater value than the money they're exchanging it for.

Right.

And so the content, as a content marketer, that, yes, you are giving away, that's important. But if you're finding yourself giving and not making a profit, that's not what we mean by being a go giver.

That's right. That's a great distinction here and I'm happy you said it too, because, yeah, from the outside perspective, a lot of content marketers, I mean, we've been maybe, I don't know if guilty is the right word of it, but people are like, how do you make money off of what you do? We have a process and we definitely do. But yeah, it's definitely giving forward. That was the whole catalyst of this podcast. Even so, it's all that go giver is always in our mind. It always goes back to you. So, yeah, it's really interesting.

Yeah, yeah. I feel like the whole concept for people, when they first hear It. It almost feels a little bit counterintuitive, right? There's this element of, okay, so if I just go out and help and do things without much expectation of return, that's when the real sort of rewards will come. And I think that's sort of like a hard thing for people to get over. You know, I feel like there's this struggle of, like, okay, I'm just going to go out and freely give. At what point do I, like, expect to reap the rewards? And I think there's like a.

Is there a point where people should start, you know, sort of reaping what they sowed? I guess, like, you know, putting out all, you know, helping so many people, but then eventually, like, you know, we need to get something out of all of the time we're spending in putting into this. I feel like I'm rambling, but I think that makes sense to you.

I understand your question, and it's a great question. There's actually a couple of questions within that, and the first one is what you were talking about before.

When you were. When you were.

Asking about it, seeming counterintuitive, okay? To really be focusing on the other person, okay? So what I would say is, let's take that. What seems counterintuitive, and let's make it logical here, okay? When I speak at sales conferences, and I know, you know, most of your viewers are, you know, online and so forth, and so I'm talking here, but it's going to be the same exact principle, okay? So when I speak at a conference and there can be thousands of sales people in this room, and I start out with a certain message, and that is this. Nobody's going to buy from you because you have a quota to me, okay? Nobody's going to buy from you because you need the money, and nobody's going to buy from you just because you are, like the nicest person in the world, right? They're going to buy from you because they believe they will be better off by doing so than by not doing so, okay? And so that's the only reason why anyone should buy from you or from me or from anyone else. And so if you look at it that way, then doesn't it make sense that to the degree your focus is on the other person and providing value to them, that's the degree they're going to be much more likely to do business with you. Because if your focus is on yourself and simply selling your product or service or first, it's probably coming across that way. But even if it's not, you're not giving that person enough of a reason to want to invest their money with you. So it actually again makes logical sense. And that's why that entrepreneur or salesperson, whether it's online, in person, it doesn't matter. That person who is totally focused on bringing immense value to others, they create that context for the that person to want to do business with them. Okay, so, so yeah, absolutely. Now if we go to what you were saying, what about that point where you feel, you know, you're being taken advantage of?

Right.

You know, well, don't do that. You know, there is, there is nothing, I think this is important. There is nothing about being a go giver that is congruent with being a doormat or a martyr or self sacrificial in any way. It's simply understanding the benefit of placing your focus on that other person. Okay. So if you feel as though, if you don't feel right about what you're doing because you feel it's something. No, then you shouldn't be doing it. Everything you do should be congruent with your values and congruent with the process of bringing people excellent, sufficient value through your outbound. Right. But in a way that, that they're getting closer and closer if they're the right person to being your client and being a paying client. You know, this is why John David Mann and I, John's my awesome co author. And it's why we say that money is simply an echo of value. Money is an echo of value. It's the thunder, if you will, to values lightning, which means nothing more than the value must be the focus and the value must come first. The money you receive is a natural result of the value you are providing.

I love that. Yeah. And this is definitely Go giver. These are some of the principles that you've lined out there. And I kind of want to shift over to the influencer side because I feel like this is perfectly congruent to when you're giving value. It's kind of getting out of your own head, out of your own way. So I'm kind of curious because, and I mentioned earlier, it seems very timely this book even more so. Now I know you wrote about what, two plus years ago or so, but now in the climate that we're in pandemic, there's a lot of separation that we see in terms of how we communicate online.

Political climate.

Political. So I'm kind of curious because I know getting your emotions in check, I think that's one of the first Principles, maybe master your emotions is the way you word it. I'm kind of curious about how you approach that in this time.

Yeah, well, it starts there, right? It starts with mastering your emotions. The sages asked who is a mighty person? And they answered, that person who can control their own emotions and make of an enemy or of a potential enemy, a friend or it might be that difficult to deal with prospective customer, a client. Okay. And so we do have to control our emotions. We need to be in control of our emotions. It's only when we're in control of our emotions, when we're in control of ourselves, that we're even in a position to take a potentially negative situation or person and turn it into a win for everyone involved. And I think we all intuitively know this, that, you know, that person, that man or woman who can really just, you know, keep their head about them, keep their wits about them, even in times of, you know, others are panicking or others are getting upset and others are. And this person really is able to just keep control of themselves or, you know, people respect that person. And I think we know it's also more productive for problem solving. So, you know, if that's the case, why then do we so often allow ourselves based on what someone else says or does, why do we, you know, allow ourselves to feel.

You know, hurt or.

Victimized? Right. Or insulted or offended or angry? And you know, we say or do the very thing that is absolutely counterproductive to what we know would be helpful. And the reason is, is because we're human beings and as human beings, we are emotional creatures.

Yeah. We can't take that away, can't take that out of us.

No. It's how we're built. And now we'd like to think we're logical and to a certain extent, of course we are, but we're pretty emotion driven. We make, as human beings, we make major decisions based on emotion and we, you know, back up those emotional decisions with the rationale. You know, we rationalize. Right? So, you know, we tell ourselves rational lies, which is what rationalizing is, and we do that to justify the emotion based decision we made or handling something in a way that was very counterproductive and incorrect and we don't want to take responsibility for that. But it's important though to understand that we're not suggesting that we deny our emotions or forego our emotions first. That would not be congruent with human nature. It's not sustainable. So it wouldn't work. But the other thing is there's no need to. Emotions are a great part of life. They bring us joy. They make life worthwhile. So, no, by all means, have your emotions. What's important is to make sure that you are the master of your emotions as opposed to your emotions being the master of you. Or as one of my great friends, Dondi Scumachi, she's a fantastic leadership authority. She says, by all means, take your emotions along for the ride, but make sure you are driving the car.

Yeah. Because I know the feeling of. And this goes back to the value conversation that we had at the top of this. When you don't have your emotions in check, I know when I don't have mine in check, it's really difficult to give value as that I know I want to, or those others are there wanting as well. And I know this kind of leads into this empathy. You don't have empathy when your emotions aren't in check. You can't see the value. And I know getting into someone else's shoes, that's kind of the second flow here, part of it.

And it seems like it's huge and.

Yeah.

And you know, the interesting thing with empathy is that.

According to the dictionary, you know, empathy is the identification with or vicarious experiencing of another person's feelings. But we can't always do that because we're not that person, and we don't necessarily understand how they feel. We come from a different way of seeing the world. We all come at life from our own belief systems, our own, you know, ways of viewing how the world works. And most of it's unconscious. In fact, I call it our unconscious operating system. Right. You know, we grow up thinking we're making all these choices based on free will and objective thought and so forth, but really, we're operating within a matrix of sorts that has been created for us and was given to us long before we were able to think critically about whether these ideas were things we agreed with and wanted to adopt. Right. So, you know, we talk about upbringing, environment, schooling, news media. Right. All these. And we think a certain way, we experience life a certain way. And we tend to believe that other people think and feel the same basic way we do. Which makes sense how? What else could it be? It's all we know, but it's not true. People all come at it from their own experiences, their own viewpoints, their own model of how the world works. So we can't necessarily know what they're thinking or they're feeling. The great thing about empathy, I think, is that it doesn't mean you Understand how they feel. It means that you, you are able to communicate to them. And it could be through what you say or how you say it or just how you show up. You're communicating that you may not understand how they feel, but you understand they're feeling something and that this something is distressful to them and that you are there as their friend or their guide or what have you to, you know, depending upon the situation to help them through it. And that's really the key.

You know, another one of the secrets for influence is the concept of letting go of the need to feel right or letting go of that. So as somebody who's trying to kind of gain influence. Right. As someone who's trying to influence others, we're trying to kind of help steer their decisions in the direction they're going. So how do you sort of rectify the gap between not having to be right but also trying to influence the minds and decisions of others?

Yeah, that's a terrific question. So when we say let go of having to be right, what do we really mean by that? Because I've had people. So you're saying you don't care about being right? No, of course you care about being right. You want to be right. You're going to prepare to be right. You're going to do your best to be right. What we mean is to let go of the attachment to having to be right, to having to be right about everything, to having to be 100% right about this thing. And what's interesting is two things. When you're able to let go of that attachment, two things happen. One, you're able to go into learning mode. So you're actually open to ideas that you may not otherwise be. And you can learn more, which obviously increases the chances of being right. This as opposed to the person who, you know, their attitude seems to be, my mind's made up. Don't confuse me with the facts. That person can never know any more than they do now. And typically people like that, what they do know is wrong. You know, the more sure says you have that Dunning Kruger effect, right, the less competent someone is, the less someone knows, the more they think they know. And they're sure they do. They do know.

Closed up. Yeah.

Right.

And so first, you put yourself in the position to learn more. But secondly, and just as importantly, when you let go of that attachment to having to be right and that other person who you're dealing with comes to quickly understand, as they will, they come to quickly understand that you're not just Looking to be right for the sake of being right. You're not just looking to be right at their expense or to make them wrong, but that you are searching for the truth. This person is then much more likely to be less defensive about you, to let their guard drop, and to be much more open to your ideas. You know, contrary to what people think, for a person to respect your judgment, they don't have to think, you know everything. Okay? They just have to. They just have to believe, because it's true, that you're someone who is searching for the truth and someone who is open to ideas and someone who's humble enough to admit that they don't know. That's a person who makes a real connection.

Would you say that's a curiosity? That's the curiosity in someone. Is that seeking of knowledge and truth?

Yeah, I think it is. And it's just so very important. In fact, I just got through reading a book by Adam Grant called Think Again, which is probably the most important book for our modern times, because he really goes through the process and the importance of understanding where we're really not right as much as we think we are. And we can use that in a good way. If we're open to that, we can learn more. And we can also work much more effectively with others and helping them to see where there are things they might not know. So it's really. It's, to me, such a wonderful, wonderful book.

Love it. Perfect recommendation. Thank you for that. And by the way. Yeah? Folks, not watching the video. There are a million books behind you, and I think I've seen other videos. I think you're surrounded. You're covered in books. All which way, right? Yeah.

I always say my house is comprised of books with some scattered furniture.

I love it. I love it.

How do you get through so many books? I know this is sort of off topic from what we've been talking about, but.

Oh, and this is one small part. Part of the library.

I believe it.

I just. You know, it's funny. I'm not a fast reader at all. But first of all, remember, I'm 63 years old, so I've had a lot longer time than you guys have to do that. But. But no, I think I just read consistently. Yeah. And so after a while, you know, and so forth. But yeah, I'm not a fast reader, though, because I take a lot of notes when I'm reading. If it's a book worth reading, I'm probably taking a lot of notes and I'm highlighting and I'm making, you know, margins and doing the yellow sticky things and so forth. So it does take me quite a while to get through it. But I usually have about four or five books going at the same time too. So that keeps it interesting. And. Yeah, but yeah, it's a great experience for me to be able to read. And I'm, you know, I just. And I love the feel of the books in my hand and so forth. So. Yeah, but, you know, that's just me. We all have our own styles.

I love it. I want to. Yeah, that was a good little tangent.

I'm thinking back on what you were just ending on prior to that tangent and kind of opening up or getting others to open up to you with maybe a different way of thinking. And you mentioned having the frame or setting the proper frame and that really is the beginning of everything to get someone up. Well, one of the beginnings, yeah.

No, Joe, that's a great point and I'll tell you why. Because.

The frame, when you get the Frame Right, you're 90% of the way to the results you want. That's how important it is. So what is a frame really? When we say set up the proper frame?

A frame is the foundation from which everything else evolves. Okay, so that's why you set that up properly. And everything, again, it's like a matrix, right? You set that up and everything comes within that. Let me, let me give you an example just to. This is a non business example, but it's probably one of my favorite stories of all time. I was at a Dunkin Donuts, which probably makes sense because if you're viewing this, you see my Dunkin Donuts cup right here. And there was a. So I was. I was sitting down having coffee and reading, which is my, you know, favorite thing.

And there was a little boy about two, two and a half, three years old, who was running around the restaurant when his parents called him back over to their table. So he starts to walk over or, you know, starts to run over and he takes a spill on the floor, he trips and falls. Now, he didn't hurt himself, you could tell, but you could also tell that he was shocked. He was very surprised. This was not in his.

Realm of experience. Okay? So the first thing he did was he looked at his mother and father. And he did this in order to get their interpretation of the event. So what happened, happened? He wanted to know, okay, mom and dad, the two people I trust more than anything else in life, what does this mean? Is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? And I really believe that had the parents gotten upset and panicky and, oh, no, you know, my poor baby.

Right.

He would have started crying, but handled it so beautifully. They. They walked over, you know, quickly, but very calmly, very serenely. They had a, you know, just looks of real peace on their faces. They, you know, they. They smiled at him and they applauded and they laugh and they said, oh, how much fun. What a good trick. Yeah, right. And what did he do? Well, he started laughing. You know, it's what the parents did is they set a productive frame from which he could operate. So it wasn't having to dry his tears and convince him why it wasn't so bad. No, they set the frame that it was already good, it was already fine. See the difference? And that's what we can do. Everything we do should be about setting the proper frame. From the moment we meet, someone or someone contacts us, comes to our site or through. Through an outbound, whatever it happens, we want to set that frame of who we want to be and how we want to be seen. Now, that's actually fairly simple to do. The challenging part is what about when someone comes to the situation with a negative frame already set? And John and I had that situation in the Go giver, influencer, where Jack came to the table and the judge, Celia Henshaw, had to kind of reset the, you know, his negative frame. And it really taught him a lesson. And it's because if we buy into that person's negative frame and we're operating from that premise now, we're in an adversarial relationship. And adversarial relationships don't work when you're dealing with a potential customer or a current customer or a client. Okay. It's not a good frame to operate, so we've always got to reset it so that it's a positive win. Win. Mutually beneficial frame.

Yeah. And that's taking someone from a negative and shifting, I'm sure, is very difficult. But, I mean, I've practiced this with my own kid, with my wife earlier today. But it's amazing, just resetting the frame and almost showing like, hey, no, there is a different way of looking at it, and it's actually probably not as bad. And it's right there in front of you. And this is. I like what you said. This is how you want to be showing up or you want to show up in someone's life. In this way, you're basically setting that foundation so they know your intentions and the value you can give them as a result.

Exactly.

Yeah. I love it.

I want to be a little cautious on time. I want to cover the last two, if you don't mind. Or we can tease folks so they can grab the book too.

No, that's okay. What did you want to ask?

I was thinking of the rest of the main principles of the influencer book.

So. So we kind of combined a couple of them because we combine stepping in that, in the, in that person's shoes. Okay. And empathy, because one is about the head, right? Stepping into their shoes and one's about the heart, which is empathy. Okay. And then also we need to put tact in there because remember it was communicate with tact and empathy. And tact is so important. Tact is really. My dad has always defined tact as the language of strength. And I've always enjoyed that saying because to me, it takes a lot of strength to speak to someone with tact when you don't want to. When that customer complains about something that you've explained four times already and it's on the site and it's everywhere, they should see it, but they kind of come yelling at you because that.

Right, right.

It takes a lot of strength to, you know, write back or whatever. Did you read that right now?

Right.

And so it does take, you know, or if somebody texts you or you're in a conversation with someone, whether it's someone you love or someone who, you know, what have you to, you know, to be able to. So again, that goes back to strength, controlling our emotions. And it begins there. Now.

Really, the, you know, I see tact as the ability to communicate an idea to someone, an idea that they ordinarily would not be agreeable to, but to do so in such a way that not only are they not defensive toward you and resistant to your idea, but they're open to you and open to your idea. And this has to do with the words we say and how we say them. And it's so, so very important because remember, you know, people have their ego, they have their feelings, they have their emotions, and they're going to interpret things as they want to interpret you as they interpret them. So when we can put the right words together in the right way, which is what tact is really about, you know, we're really nine steps ahead of the game in a, in a ten step game.

Right. And it feels like you have to almost prepare before the tact comes in because there are these layers that the other person's working with and you do.

But then what happens is this. See, when you start to get used to it right now, you just, you're able to come up with it. It becomes very, very natural. And so, you know, the words that we use, the way that we say them and as we practice these, okay, it becomes second nature. And as soon as the thing is said from someone else or as soon as, you know you need to say something, boom, it just comes right to you.

Yeah. Repetition, practice and all that. And I want to shout out really fast to your YouTube channel because you had a series. I think it's wrapped up now, but I believe it was all about influe. There was a lot of language, so there's a lot that you break down in just these types of conversations with folks. I know it's more of a sales type of angle, but definitely recommend folks check it out. We can link that up as well.

My book called Adversaries into Allies is actually the how to aspect of the Go Giver Influencer. So the Go Giver Influencer is the parable that is kind of based around adversaries into allies. So Adversaries into Allies is a how.

To book, which you are the how to guy of your co author. I know that.

Yeah. And so.

Yeah, so that's for, you know, for people who want, you know, I mean, the exact. I mean, we give some of it too, in the Influencer. But like any parable, it's the surface idea more than the, you know, the actual how to.

Very nice.

So at. @berg.com books they can go to whichever book they'd like and they can get a free chapter and excerpt so they can see if they like where it's at. So I'd go to the one, the Adversaries and Allies. And I think within that first chapter you're going to get a good idea or within that sample chapter you'll get a good idea. If it's a book that you think.

Can help you, that's perfect. Awesome. No, thank you, Bob. Well, I think that's great. I know burg.com b u r g.

Yeah, that's my main site.

Main site.

And thegogiver.com is that a good spot to sit?

We just usually use Berg.

Perfect. Yeah. Can do. Well, anything else, Matt?

No, I think we covered a lot of ground and we went a couple minutes over, so thanks so much.

You guys are awesome. You know, I. I know you're great friends with our mutual friend Steve Burnett, who's just a fantastic guy and a great friend.

He's listening. So shout out to Steve.

Shout out to Steve. Definitely his awesome family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're all amazing. So. But we're honored to chat with you, Bob. Thanks for taking the time. You've made a big influence on us and I know a lot of our listeners too.

The honor is mine.

Yo, yo, we're back.

We are back. That was a good one. It was a bit shorter than normal.

It was a sprint episode.

Yeah, we sort of skipped the backstory and a few of the other things we would typically talk about because we, you know, Bob graciously had 30 minutes available to chat today. So we snagged those 30 minutes and. And actually managed to get an extra three or so out of him.

It was worth every minute. Dang it. Yeah. No, and the backstory on Bob, I mean, he's just got. He's authored a ton of books, but the Go Giver series, I mean, you could check everything out over at. What was it? Berg.com Book or books books and S because they're a plural. So go check out b u r g.com books and yeah, the go giver, those two books. Parables.

Yeah. At the very least, you gotta go read the first Go Giver book. Like Joe and I were talking about this before we hit record. I think we might have even said it on the recording. But yeah, because you mentioned that it was Rich Dad, Poor dad, and this book were two of the first books we ever read. I mean, there might be a couple other in the mix, but quite honestly, this was. Yeah, the Go Giver was one of the very, very early ones that to this day, 1312 years later, we still reference it.

And I know we didn't go through all the laws. And let's be honest, if you haven't read the Go Givers, go read it. Go pick it up. It's worth your every cent and you.

Can read it in one or two sittings is parable form. It's written like a story. It's a. It's a fictional story, but it has, you know, the underlining messages and education inside of it and it's. It. It's such a smooth read because it's told in that story form. So I believe when I read it, I read it, you know, in two days.

Yeah. I mean, I don't remember how fast, but. But yeah, it's same with the Influencer book. His new were book, the Go Giver Influencer, which is what we were highlighting a little bit more in this episode. But definitely, yeah, the Go Giver, I would say start there. That's like the foundation of everything and we gotta shout out the stratospheric success laws that he. In the Go Giver series. I feel like they're just so good. Yeah, you have the value. So the law of value, the law of compensation, the law of influence, the law of authenticity, and then the law of receptivity.

And I really think that the law of receptivity.

The being open to receiving, is actually probably one of the things that.

Most people struggle with. I know it's something that.

Well, how have you struggled with it? Let's say that the law of being.

Open to receiving, I think, and this sort of came up on the conversation, but there is this feeling of like, I just want to constantly give value. I want to constantly help people. I don't really like asking for things in return. In fact, this even came up. So this is some like real behind the scenes stuff here.

Really? Really. Isn't that what this section's all about?

This is real behind the scenes. No, but this actually came up around one of our therapy sessions where we were getting ready to launch our Pod hacker course. And one of our listeners, Andrew, right. He reached out and was saying, you guys sound like you're almost apologetic for selling pod hacker to people.

Yeah.

And so that kind of came up there. It's like for four plus years now, we've been putting out two pieces of free content every week. We make it highly valuable. We don't hold back. There's not like there's nothing gated about the podcast. It's all just free value that we're putting out. And when we finally are like, okay, let's go sell a course on what we're doing about this kind of stuff, we kind of go, eh, I'm sorry we gotta do this, but we're selling a course. We gotta finally make some money off of what we're teaching here. You know, and there's this almost like apologetic sense to going and saying, okay, we put out all this free value into the world, now let's try.

To sort of harvest these crops that we planted.

Yeah. Or the seeds from a long time ago. And you're right. And Andy was right. There was some apologetic tones, underlying emotions happening because there was a lot of uncertainty, because it was different. But at the same time, you're right. I mean, I know I personally, in many ways, I'm open to receive, but at the same time there's like, sometimes there's a little layer of guilt. You're just like, wait, wait, hold on. Shit. Like, is this, Am I worthy of this? Should I actually be receiving this. Like, oh, my God. They're praising us left, right, and center, like, for. Is that really worthy?

Yeah. When it comes to Pod Hacker, specifically, like, I don't think we actually got super, super comfortable with Pod Hacker until these testimonials started rolling in and people started going like. Like, I just went through 25% of the course, and, holy crap, you guys didn't charge enough for this thing. And then we started to go, okay, this is actually, yes, we did get something in return. People are paying for us for this. But I actually do feel like the value they're receiving in return is astronomically higher than the value we're asking them to give us back in return.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. Because it's. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't want to go too deep down because I feel like this could turn into a therapy session, but the whole.

There's a shorter episode, so we might have a longer outro.

I mentioned guilt, and that's actually something I've been really journaling and thinking a lot about, especially last night. So it's fresh in my mind right now. And I got to give a shout out to Mark's Acosta Rubio. I had a chat with him yesterday, and he walked me through this whole havening technique that basically allowed me to shed a lot of that, because I feel like there for me and maybe you as well, and maybe anyone who really wants to freely give and give the receiving sometimes can feel a little guilty, and then that shows up. It's usually, I think, subconscious, but it shows up in our actions and the way that we talk and the way that you're, like, really presenting yourself and bringing people in. Like, I'm just like. You see more. I feel like when you drop the guilt, you have more awareness of things around you and yourself and also the good shit that you're putting out to the world for others. So you better as hell, you better be open to receive, because you have no fricking choice. And if you're not open to receive, you're gonna be basically consumed by guilt. So it's like, why the fuck do you want to have guilt? And hopefully your kids aren't here. But seriously, in my journal entry, I was like, fuck guilt. But there's more to it. But the whole point being is, yeah, for me, I think it stems from that. A lot of that and not being open to receiving, or at least feeling totally flowy with that and letting it come in. Hopefully that resonates with someone else listening, you know, at Least for what I'm. Guilt is not serving. And instead, you know, being the go giver and following the steps do.

Yeah, well, I feel like the, you know, the sort of law of value, right? Of the sort of whole concept of just trying to give a ton of value freely and just put it out into the world and hopefully it comes back in return somehow. I think that concept a lot of people could grasp. I think a lot of people kind of get it. And if you look throughout history, that concept has existed forever. That's the concept of karma essentially as well. Right. So I think people could wrap their heads around that concept. It's just. At what point is that concept taken too far where you're just giving, giving, giving, giving, giving. And then when people are like, hey, hey, let me give you something in return. Let me pay you for this. Let me, you know, let me buy you dinner for your time. Let me send you something as a thank you. When it comes to, like actually asking for something or getting something in return, most people, and I don't know why I'm saying most people, but like, I know in my brain my tendency is to be like, no, thanks. I did it out of the goodness of my heart. I love providing value. I'm happy to share this stuff. Like, you don't need to give me anything in return. So at what point. Where do those scales tip? At what point do we start thinking, okay, I've put so much value into the world and now the value is trying to return, and I've resisted that value returning back to me. At what point do we drop the resistance of people returning the value back to us?

Right.

I think that's doing some deep work on yourself and understanding, like, why. Why is there resistance? Because that's what I was doing and I realized there was a. The guilt was my. Like, I felt like that's where it stemmed from. And it shows up in all sorts of ways.

Yeah.

But, you know, it's. I mean, it's even what he said in the compensation, the law of compensation. We didn't cover it in the episode, but I have it written down here is, your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. And. And I feel like this is how I've always even approached it with clients. Back in the day when I was doing a lot of client work is I'll hop on a phone call and give them all these cool ideas and strategies of how I would do things and then basically as compensation, be like, cool, how much is it going to take. For me to just hire you and you do that. And at that time, I was just like, okay, when I'm starting, starting. But then, I don't know, for me, I got a lot more confident and. And prices go up. But the value I felt like, kept increasing because I learned more. So I gave more. And then that returned into referrals and more compensation and that it was like rinse and repeat. And through that, going down the list grew influence within a community that translated actually into a lot of our podcast guests. And then authenticity, I think, is something that we talk about a lot here. And it's like just being true. And then receptivity is actually just. Just can. I feel like there's always going to be receiving happening. It's like with us, there's introductions happening all the time. You know, we asked Bob after the interview, hey, would you like to go on more podcasts? I know you're on like every single podcast out there, but. And he. It wasn't like you said. No, he was open to receive. Yeah, I mean, he gave me some ideas and things like that, but I don't know, like, it's just being cool with it and just letting it flow. But yeah.

And I don't want to, like, sort of misstate what's actually happening in our business. We receive a ton of value, of course, and we do accept the value. I think this is more me talking through something that we have worked through over time, but I feel like it's something that I don't know if will ever totally be worked through. We'll just kind of start. We'll continually see additional evidence throughout our lives of these truths.

Yeah. Cause, yeah, it's not done. And I feel like if I'm, you know, I just turned 36, I hope I'm. My journey is not done to figure out how to. How to, you know, receive more but also continue to give more as well. Yeah, no, it's interesting because I think we're just becoming more aware of. Because I feel like with more scale of things and I feel like the podcast, we say it all the time, but it's so damn true. The podcast has scaled that for us in like hyper mode, hyperspeed. Whereas before, if we're just on a one to one basis, I feel like there's less practice of the receptivity.

Yeah, I feel like, I don't know, this is sort of getting deeper into the weeds here, but I do feel like this is something that you are conditioned from childhood.

Right.

Like, think about Christmas time Right. During Christmas time, what are you constantly, like? What's constantly drilling to your brain? As a kid, it's better to give than to receive. The real joy of Christmas is giving, not getting right. And I almost feel like, I don't know, speaking for myself, like, over time, it sort of translated for me into, let's say, Christmas time. I love, like, oh, that would be so perfect for somebody else. And I like getting gifts for others. Yet I'm very awkward when other people give me gifts and I open their gift and, like, I always feel like the gratitude that I'm giving for the gift they gave is not enough of a high enough level of gratitude. But at the end of the day, there really was a sort of exchange there. And most scenarios, you're giving a gift and you're receiving a gift, so there's kind of an even exchange. But I still have this kind of ingrained guilt from childhood. Like, when I receive a gift from others, I feel like I need to go over the top with gratitude.

When I feel you, I feel you. Yeah. No, I think a lot of people experience that because I had that same talk with Heather, my wife, during Christmas. So I think I was giving gifts to others without them knowing they were going to receive a gift. So she's like, do you know what that does to people? It creates this guilt. I'm like, damn it. But that's not what I was going for. I wanted. I wanted to freaking help. And, like, that made me feel good. Yeah. But I know what you mean, because when I receive, it's the same thing. It's like, I'm freaking joyed out. Like, actually, the jeans I'm wearing right now, I got them from, you know, great grandma Heather's grandma. And I was, like, savoring every. Like, oh, wow, look at the wrapping. Look at. I'm like, I don't really give a shit about the wrapping. Let's be honest. I don't really care about the pants, but I'm happy I have pants because I had holes in my previous life.

Dude. I save, like, Christmas cards and stuff from people because I'm like, this feels weird to throw away something that somebody gifted me, you know, Even though it's just a piece of paper that they wrote some words on, I'm getting better.

At getting rid of that stuff now.

But so are we. But still, it's like one of those things that, like, over time, it's like. Like, I almost feel like the traditions of giving and receiving sort of precondition you to be a little Resistant to receiving.

Yeah, no, I think you're right. And this.

I mean, there's. I think there's a money exchange. That's what I was going to read. Because there's a couple things. Because we do a lot of trades with people and like, I'll just, you know, there's another. We do it actively all the time, but we're not trading money.

Bartering. It's bartering.

And let's see here. I want to read this. Just maybe it's relevant, but the law of value. And this is going back to the go giver. Your true worth is determined by how much you give in value than you take in payment. So.

There'S a lot of mentors in our life where we're not necessarily paying anything, but we are giving them immense amount of value as part of this relationship and they're giving us value from their end. And I feel like that's like the truest form of collaboration or exchange and receptivity, I mean.

Oh, totally.

I had a chat with Angelo. Cisco is the one that brought this up to me because I'm helping him out with some pot. Him and his alpha hippie brand on the podcast side of front and side of things. They're in pod hacker and I hop on calls and twice a month, you know, we hop on these calls. It's every other call, basically I'm helping him and he helps me on another one and he's, he's walking me through a lot of his alpha hippie stuff and basically like exposing some of these parts in my being.

Turning you how to be hippie.

I'm already hippie man Alpha.

I think that ship has sailed for both of us a long time ago.

But like, it's just really cool to. Because the whole thing was. He approached me with this and I gotta give him full credit here. He's like, you know how it feels when like there's this exchange of money or there's. There's this. It feels like a pull and you don't want to just ask for something or you feel indebted, you know, so there's an imbalance. But it doesn't necessarily, doesn't necessarily have to be the same amount of like, it doesn't have to be like an even plane. Meaning, like, here's the equal time, here's the equal money, here's the. It's like, it's the value. And that's what Bob Berg was saying in this is like your true worth is determined how much you're giving in value. And Then the value is what they think the value is. It's not what you do. And I think Roland even put this into your head not that long ago. Roland Frazier and the mastermind.

Yeah. It was part of what led us to launching pod Hacker. Do you want to talk about that really fast?

Because I thought that was really cool when he called you out. Yeah, well, he's in a private mastermind.

I think we talked about it a little bit on our pod hacker therapy session. But yeah, I'm trying to remember the exact point that I brought up to him. Oh, yeah, what it was, was we were talking about high ticket clients and doing consulting for high ticket clients. And I was thinking about, like, man, I always feel guilty charging high ticket prices because I'm always feeling uncertain around whether or not the value I'm providing in return is equal or greater to the amount of money they're giving me.

Right.

And that was something that he sort of helped me reframe.

Oh, he like. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Literally, he was basically like, don't think about it like that. Think about it in terms of the additional value you'd create to them. So if I can get on a call with somebody and I could give them something that if they made this one tweak, would generate an extra half a million dollars a year in their business for that person, is that worth a hundred thousand dollars to that person, is that worth 20% of the increased revenue? Of course it is, because it's newfound money to them. So why would I feel weird about saying, hey, if you give me $100,000, I'll show you how you can go make $500,000.

Right.

Because I am giving. The increased value in their business is going to be much greater. But I always thought it in terms of deliverables, like, okay, if you give me $100,000. Well, this template that we created, that's realistically worth like maybe $1,500. And this, this webpage that we're going to work with our designer to help you design, that's $15,000. And this, you know, I could go on and on, but I've always thought in terms of deliverables. So I need to sort of itemize. They're giving me this money. This is where that money's gonna go.

You have marketer brain because it's like the, you know, the sales page is where it's like, the value is $1,000. Value is exactly. Yeah. And like, that's actually screwing up the whole Value exchange in this conversation. It's interesting.

Yeah. When it goes. When you start thinking of high ticket sales, you need to unlearn that stuff.

You know, or maybe any sales at that. Maybe that's just there for the viewer to frame their minds.

Very true. High ticket. I mean, high ticket is subjective, so.

I mean, totally is. Yeah. I mean, what's high ticket? $20. Maybe to someone in some other country. That's cool.

But I mean, just going back to a point you made a second ago, like, money just makes things weird. Like, if it was up to me. Right. If it was completely up to me, almost all exchanges would be in exchange of value for value and just take money out of the equation. The problem is, like, I can't go offer podcasting services to somebody who's going to give me milk.

Right.

Like, I don't know any farmers who are going to be like, hey, you make a website for my farm and I'll provide you with mil every month.

You have a personal cow in the backyard.

And there's things that you need money. In our current sort of world, in our current environment that we live in, you need money to consume the things we need to consume on a daily basis. Like my. Like the bank that holds my mortgage for my house doesn't accept podcast interviews as payment.

Yeah, that would be cool.

Bitcoin, they might. That's probably coming. But still, it's still. I mean, bitcoin is still, like, just a step away from money, right?

Yeah, no, I know. We've chatted a lot about the money talk, and it's. Yeah. When you start thinking of it on an emotional level and thinking as a go giver and presenting yourself in this way in life, it's something to actually ponder and think about because, yeah, some of our greatest connections, the greatest value that we've received and ways that we give value is not through money. And that's where. Yeah. Going back full circle to. To Andy Gill, who basically wrote in and thank you, Andy. I know you're a little. You're uneasy to even call that out, which. Good on you.

And this is an open invite to people who listen to the podcast. If you have feedback for us, call it out, please.

It's only gonna make us better, make us feel better. And we have thick skin kind of. Well, not for you, though, Listening. Not you. No, I'm just kidding.

I mean, I cry about it, but then after I'm done crying, the skin is thicker.

There's a phase goes up and down.

The tears of worn GRE into My body.

That's what those lines are in your face. Okay. You cry a lot, bro. Yeah, but that might cool.

But. Yeah, so I have calluses from the. The tears.

Oh, I thought that was from the smackdown I gave you last time in the ring. All right. Well, yeah. Oh, shoot. I forgot the name of the book that Bob probably should have.

Yeah. So he mentioned a couple of books. He mentioned Think Again and he actually shouted that book out as like one of the most impactful books that anybody can read right now. So that's saying something.

Think Again.

And then the other book that he was talking about with us, was he saying this on recording or off where he was talking about his book Adversaries into Allies.

It was on.

Okay.

Yeah. So adversaries into Allies.

Yeah. And that's his more sort of tactical how to book.

And I have not read that one. I haven't either. That is perfect. Perfect, perfect. All right. Oh, oh. Let's give a shout out to Bob's. And this is a new thing he actually did not mention on the air, but it was off the air. That's what you might have been thinking about is this thing called the Go Giver Success alliance. And it's actually@gogiversuccessalliance.com yeah.

And it sounded like that's. We didn't get all the details from him, but it sounds like that's a much more hands on way to work with him or his team.

Like accountability type stuff. Coaches. I'm assuming there's not a lot of information right now, but. But it's brand new. He didn't bring it up because he didn't think that we'd be able to get this.

And the day that we're recording this, the site wasn't live, but the day that you're hearing this, it is live. So that's why we have a little less information for you about it. But it's over@gogiversuccessalliance.com so go check that out and see what that's all about. And then Steve Burnett, let's shout him out again.

Why not?

Let's give him some love.

Steve, I appreciate you, brother. And I'm stoked that you're in Pod hacker too, because that's actually how we met. Original.

Yeah, he was a pod hacker 1.0.

That was out there in Orlando. Podfest. We were in the Mastermind all day and I mean, yeah, it's amazing. So thank you for the introduction to Bob and thank you to everyone who's ever given Us introductions. Because that's literally how this show is fed. So it's just so damn cool. Speaking of that. But Easy Webinar. Easy Webinars is a thing. Yes. And they are a sponsor of this fabulous show. At least we think so. And we're not biased. Not at all. We did kind of have an iffy face there. You're like, it's okay. Yeah. They are the go to place our solution for everything. Webinars. I was gonna say webcasts. Webbies. Webby.

Yeah, we just say Webbies now. We don't even.

Webbies.

Like webinars is too many syllables.

Yeah, that's a good point. Webbies have been training my kid to speak words. Geez, I gotta train myself.

And you're teaching your Internet marketing lingo.

Webbies. It's just easier, you know, it's fun to say.

Get her to start saying ctr.

It's coming. It's coming soon. Yeah.

How do I monetize this?

I mean, hey, run the biz, girl. Go for it.

Let's get your.

Your kids recruited. We'll have a little.

I'm working it. I'm working it.

Switch up. Yeah, not really happening. All right. Don't arrest us. Yeah. So, Easy Webinar. Back to this promo for our boys over at Easy Webinar. It's the suite of everything Webinars. They manage all the different types of webinars. They have all the automations, the landing pages, all the tech crap that you don't want to deal with. They handle it for you in their Easy Webinar system.

That is true.

So you can get a hookup because you are a listener of this podcast, not other podcasts. Grr.

Only listen to one. There can be only one.

There can only be one. And therefore, you get a fat discount if you go to Hustle and Float. No, don't go there. Go to easywebinar.com hustle. That's easywebinar.com hustole. And you will get a discount depending on which option you choose.

Yes, yes. And also grab the notes from this episode. You can grab the notes by joining our Facebook group. So if you go to flowchartgroup.com, one of the questions we ask when you request to join the Facebook group is for your email. If you give us that email, we will email you the notes to the most recent episodes that we put out. So these notes are available for two weeks, and as long as you join the group within the next two weeks from this episode going live, you'll get the notes for this specific episode. So that's over@flowchartgroup.com and that community's been rocking lately.

Dude, I was actually gonna say, if you weren't gonna mention the community, I'd be like, I feel like we neglect the whole Facebook community part.

We did.

You gotta. I know. Yeah, but we gotta be in there. Yeah, we did. Those are the. Back in the day. Yeah. Go into that group. It's free. Flowchartgroup.com. come on. I'm waiting on you. I'm waiting to approve you.

Yeah. So if you're wondering why this episode is five hours long, it's just because of the. The next four and a half hours of silence while we're waiting for you to sign up.

Just waiting. I'm waiting. Flowchartgroup.com. no, it's an amazing group. You're gonna hear a lot of the folks that we always shout out. And there's a lot of our guests in there as well.

Yes, sir.

Lastly, share this episode around with y' all's friends or friendemmies.

Share it with friends, enemies, people you haven't met yet.

Whoever, man.

The barber, the person staying in line in front of you at the grocery store. All of them.

Barber's a good one.

Actually, I was at the barber yesterday.

I could tell.

And he wants to do an episode with us.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, hell, legit. Really?

Yeah. Me, you, and John. He wants to do a podcast episode.

It'd be sick.

So if you guys want it.

Yeah.

On our podcast. So if you guys want to hear a podcast interview between me, Joe, and our barber, it's gonna be epic.

Let's go in person.

Yeah. Well, here's what he wants to talk about. He was telling me. He's like, dude, I think it'd be an awesome episode, because he's like, I cut hair of, you know, 300 people a week. He's like, like. And every single one of them is in a different industry, a different career, has different life experiences. He's like, I've. I've. I've had people sitting in my chair that are legit drug dealers, and I've had people sitting in my chair that are cops, and sometimes even in the same day. And the dichotomy of these different conversations.

Yeah.

And I was just like, dude, I'm in. We're a business podcast, but we'll make an exception for one episode because this sounds fantastic.

People, man. I mean, yeah, actually, last time I was in there, about a month ago. I gotta go back. Yeah, he was like, I gotta listen to your damn show. It's been too long. I know you have it, and it's great. And then he must have listened, so that's cool. I can't wait. That actually makes me very giddy. Yeah, so go share it with your barber. I'm sure they're looking for more conversations because they don't have enough already. Yeah, exactly. All right, thank you, everybody. Love y'. All.

See you on the next one. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address, and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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