Breaking Free from Entrepreneurial Burnout: How Virtual Assistants Transformed A Business with Jen Lehner

A lot of people are saying, like, just automate everything. And now we have an AI and we really don't need people in our business. We definitely especially don't need VAs. Obviously that is not true. But a great thing that we're seeing happen and develop in my business is we have all, we just have mountains of data. So, like, if you ever had a Facebook group and you've had people come in and answer all those questions, right?

Yeah.

So I could take all of that data, put it into the right AI. I don't know if it's chat or Claude AI or which one it's going to be. We're going to ask it questions like what is the. What is the number one question that people have asked? What is a product I could create based on all of this information? What content? Obviously, for days, for years. What, what's. What's what? What's some great content we can create from this? But as great as that AI is, I. I still need my virtual assistant to do this because I need them to find the data, copy and paste it, organize it, you know, structure it, all of that.

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hustle mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger, so that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy. You know it, I know it. 2023 is almost done. It's crazy. 2024 is almost here, but we still have Q4 to rock and roll and make the most out of this time. That's why the new HubSpot sales hub is here to sync up everything inside of your operations, your team, and allow for collaboration to happen along the full customer journey. So you're not missing a beat. And I'm talking about workspace, you know, your analytics, everything's reporting across the board, so everybody's clued in and delivering as you should, bringing in more revenue. So with this whole thing, there's an AI platform they just rolled out A conversational platform called Chat Spot. This thing is going to help you write copy using AI, generating emails, posts, so much more. All the stuff that you'd have to manually do. Well, that's different now.

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So tons of integrations, 1400 plus tons of ways to integrate features into your workflow. So this is something you want to definitely look into right now for Q4. So now's the time to go make a switch to HubSpot Sales Hub over at HubSpot.com sales. Hey Jen, it's great to finally have you here. Miriam gave us a nice little introduction and I think this is going to be a timely chat for, for the folks who have podcasts, don't podcast looking for systemizing this wild world of tools and team. And it seems like you cover all that and way more. So it's fun to have you here. It's great to be here.

It's great to be here. Thank you.

Yeah, of course. And that's where there's so many things, as I was getting to know you at least virtually looking at all the things you have out there, business coach, the fact that you help entrepreneurs of all sorts, CEOs, to really systemize themselves. And it seems like it's like the glue of an organization is to really tie things together and people are part of that as well.

I think it's the glue. I mean, I think even if you don't believe it initially or you're not sort of made up that way, like you're not a person that naturally thinks that way, we all run up against that reality.

Yeah, definitely. And so we'll dig into and just to preface folks here, you know, there's, there's definitely some pillars that we'll be covering because Jen, you do some interesting things. I mean you have podcasts, a lot of folks here either aspiring to have a podcast of their own or they're obviously listening. But you have these Alexa Flash briefings that are extremely unique sounding and I don't really know anything about them. But you've been consistent for four years, like you were just saying. So that's, I mean that's a form of podcasting. I would count it, you know, for sure.

For sure.

And so obviously if systems, I mean there's a lot of folks that struggle with the systems is the time in their business and taking away from things, especially with new AI tools or really anything new in general and making sure we have the right people. So I know you have a resource for that as well. To actually find the right people easily so that's kind of like a little overview for folks as we dive in here and we'll bob and weave everywhere else. But Jenna, I'd love to know about you because you're also an adjunct professor.

You have your fingers in a lot of things. It seems like what got you all started in this whole space to begin.

I think I'm so bad about anniversaries and I realized the other day that I hit the 10 mile mark or the 10 year mark like a year ago. So. So I guess, you know, it's been a while now I'm in my 11th year and I started as a consultant because I've always just been interested in all the tools. I love technology and I just love these tools that connect us. So, you know, I remember when my first son was born 20 something years ago, like 23 years ago, eBay had just hit the scene. And I just like looked around my office as I was like nursing him and I thought, what can I sell? I want to sell something. But it had to be within arm's reach of where I was, you know, so there was like a pair of slippers that were unopened from the Ritz Carlton and there was like a, a duplicate wind up clock I had, which was a West Clocks brand and I had gotten them at Target and I don't remember what the third thing was. And I just listed them on ebay and they sold and it was just such a monumental. And they sold for a lot of money, I have to say. But it was just such a monumental thing in my life. You know, I was in the confines of this small little office with four walls and in. But I was, I was participating in like global commerce and I was making actual money. And I would say that, I mean that was a hundred years ago, but that really was, I think, the spark for me. And then after that I was just always interested in all the things. So I started as a social media digital marketing consultant for small businesses. And then I got introduced to the world of online courses. The one to many model and, and I did that and that, that was very rewarding and, and worked out well for me. And then along the way, you know, all these great tools have, have popped up for us, right? Like live streaming. I mean, oh my gosh, we didn't have live streaming before. I mean, it was just good luck.

I mean, well, that was left to the people with these massive ways. I mean, there was no streaming. I mean I actually, I had the founder of Twitch, Justin Kahn on like last year and he told me about how he created this modem on his head. It was like two modems or something, and like a camcorder. And that's how he did streaming and how Twitch actually started initially.

That's amazing. Yeah. And we. And we do. I think we. All those of us, you know, with online businesses and here in the online world, I think it's really easy to take it for granted, but it's important to just stop and go, holy cow. Like, then this phone, you know, have more. More bandwidth than Tom Brokaw or Walter Cronkite or any of those guys did with, you know, on a news channel. So it's. It really is amazing. And I still continue to be fascinated, and I think AI hit at just the right time for me because I might have been getting a little bored or. I mean, nothing as exciting. Nothing so exciting has happened since. Since Periscope and Meerkat and all that. You know what I mean? It's. It's. So this was like the next big thing, so I was super excited about that.

Yeah, well, that's. That's. It's a good perspective because. Yeah, it's tough to look back because a lot of stuff, obviously, the world's going so fast, and as entrepreneurs, I feel like we see even more than most because we're constantly trying to innovate, push ourselves.

Yes.

Coach, you know, and share what we're learning. But it's. It's very simple for us. If we don't have the systems, if we don't have the focus, and to bounce around from thing to thing and then possibly burnout. I mean, a big thing in this show is to talk about entrepreneur burnout, too, and how real it is.

Yes, it is a real thing.

Yeah. Have you experienced any of that? Obviously, starting there on ebay, and you've worked with so many people, organizations small and large. Yeah. What's come up for you? I guess we'll start there and, like, some of these mental things that have popped up that didn't take any off course. Yeah.

Well, I would say, you know, now, looking back, what I've learned is that, like, for me personally, there's definitely. I could almost like, chart a graph of. Of the highs and lows. Not just. Not. Not as it relates to the. The revenue stream, but as it relates to just sort of, like, my perspective and my feeling about things happening in my business. You know, it's. It. And. And. And that's comforting because I can say to myself.

You come out of this every time, and you Come out of it more inspired than you were before. So, you know, Seth Godin talked about the dip, and, you know, it's just those of us who've been at this for a while, like, it's nothing to be ashamed of. We all just know it's a fact. I'm not unique. I think this is very. Right. Would you say that you go through this as well?

100%, yes. We all have our unique way of going about it, though.

Yes, that's so true. And for the first time, though, burnout really hit me. And where things really shifted on my business was I was creating my first big online course. And it was just me in my business. Like I said, I always liked the tech and I always liked all the shiny toys and tools.

Setting up leadpages to connect with webinar, jam to connect with whatever email service provider I was using at the time was kind of fun for me and satisfying because at the end of the day, wow. I felt like I got a lot done. Right. I set up this late, but was I getting paid for that? No. And also I was sitting. I noticed I was sitting in a chair for like 12 and 13 and 14. I'm at a standing desk right now.

Same. Yeah, Yeah.

I actually have a treadmill underneath me, but I'm not.

I'm not walk. I don't have it turned on. Not for podcasts, but. But yeah. So I'm. I am and always have been a more or less fit kind of a person, health conscious. And I looked down at my feet and they were. My ankles were swollen, and I don't have any health issues or anything like that. It was literally because I was sitting days on end, hours on end, I was sitting there and the stress. I remember we were having a big webinar and something was happening with my Internet connection, and I had to run out and get an Ethernet connection to do, like, a hard whatever. And I wasn't. Now I'm in an office building. But at the time, I was, you know, in an office in my house. And I. Or not even an office. And it was just. All things sort of hit me at once. And I was really borderline, like, panic attack. It was just. It was absolutely horrible. And I thought, and thank God this was like, two years into my business. And that's when I really had this light bulb moment of.

This is gonna take me forever, like, to actually, you know, because let's suppose this. Let's suppose, you know, after I get done with the sales webinar and get all the Emails out and do all the things that have to be done and it does sell and it's successful, then I have to provide the thing I'm offering.

Fulfill.

Yeah, it's just there's so much to be done and a lot of. And I was listening to podcasts at the time when of people that were doing this, and they kind of made it sound a lot more simple than it was. So I had this moment and I was like, I gotta get help. Like, this is ridiculous. This is gonna take me forever. And at that point, I hired my first virtual assistant and I didn't know what I was doing. And I definitely was not in the black. You know, I mean, I was, I. There was red bleeding all over the place. But when I really thought about it, I'm like, wait a minute, I have to slow down to speed up. And that has kind of been my motto ever since. And that's what I try to tell other people. You have to get off wheel. You have to, you know, you're either gonna crash into that wall like I did and have swollen ankles and a bruise on your head, or you're, you know, you're going to just get ahead of it and not wait for that moment and just say, okay, I got. I've got to get off this wheel and I gotta get help. Because once I did that, like everything in my business, that is when I really went like, full throttle. It was like I. Now I had someone who she was. Just because I could do it didn't mean I should be doing it. Right. Like, just because I could do the lead pages, I shouldn't be the one doing it. So this person took over all of that, and all of a sudden I had all this free time. So at that moment, from that moment, I did the course. That's when I created a physical product. I started a podcast. I ended up getting. My first guests were Gary Vaynerchuk, Seth Godin. I got. But I would never have been able to do that because if I was doing all the other stuff, but I was able to laser focus, you know, chasing them down, hunting them down like they were. I mean, I really kind of had to. To get them on the show and all the other things. But, but, but then people started to notice me and they said, you know, what did you do? How did your business.

Blow up so fast? I watched this happen for, you know, over the course of just less than a year. And I was like, I. Somebody else is doing everything that was eating up all my time.

Yeah. And it allows, you to go hunting. It allows you to go really focus in on what the thing, the. The most leveraged aspect of your business is. And I. This is so common with literally everyone I speak with. And it really doesn't matter what phase you're in. We're always, like, met with this next hurdle. And it's usually I feel like it's this. It's a mental thing, and it's us feeling like we're probably the best at that thing. And for whatever reason, it feels like this monumental undertaking to hand off or, you know, and let. And I'm sure it gets easier over time. I know it has for me in certain regards, but then there's certain things that aren't or that I just naturally so talk about. Like, because it's so tough for people to, like, we've all heard this, like, let's go get help, Vas, whoever, you know, and there's a lot of mental stuff there. Obviously, it's like the cost that. How do I find them? Are they good? And they're like, can they do as good as me? And. Yeah. What do you have to think on that point?

Well, first of all, what I want to say, and I think this is really important, and really, I'm only just now coming to this realization, and that is, you cannot escape the bottleneck. Okay? As entrepreneurs, even if we get to.

$20 million in our business, even if the outside world or even we're looking at our business going, all right, I'm crushing it, you're still going to be a bottleneck because that means that as we grow, new problems present themselves and you have to step in. Even if you hire a chief operating officer or even a CEO for your company, I think.

There'S always going to be a bottleneck to some degree. So I think we all need to understand that.

And somehow I think that takes the pressure off a little bit. You know what I mean? We can give ourselves a break a little bit because there are.

You're not unique in that sense.

Exactly. Yes. Thank you. But all those fears that you mentioned are exactly what I hear every single day. It's.

I've done this before and it didn't work. It was more trouble than it was worth, and I might as well just do it myself. Or how do I trust someone? So we'll start with that one. Like, how. How do you trust anyone? Right? Like, if this person was in the cubicle next to you, I mean, how do you trust them? I mean, it's just ultimately, you just have to. And obviously, when you hire someone, there are things you can do in the screening process that really.

Make it more likely that you're not gonna hire someone that is either going to sabotage your business or make crazy errors or be malicious. Malicious is something I never see. Okay. I've never seen, like some. No one's ever come back to me and said, My VA, you know, stole my money out of my PayPal account or something. That never happens.

People are inherently good.

Yeah, people are. Thank you. I agree that. I mean that. That I think you kind of have to have that mindset that people really are, for the most part, good and they want to be good and do good things.

I want to say one of my tips for the hiring process and screening is that I think everybody's heard of you put a job post up and then you have some sort of secret Easter egg in there to make sure that the people saw the ad. Everybody sort of knows that trick. The other one is get them to reply with something that is related to that Easter egg. So you know that they read the thing. So in their email, they might, you know, you might want them to format their reply in a certain way.

And then we all have heard the clever interview questions. But here's the thing, like, anyone can give you a beautiful resume, a beautiful portfolio. My God, in the day of AI, I mean, what are we gonna do like there? So and so I would say, especially now in the time of AI, the single best way to screen your candidate is to hire people for a trial week. And I've created this system where basically the trial week is composed on a trello board. You could do it on anything you want, Right? But I use trello. So it's sort of like once they're hired and they sign the agreement for this trial week.

They log in and it's sort of like step one, step two, step three, tag me when you're finished. Then you have these different tasks all laid out. The beauty of that is I can replicate that board with a click, right? So I could create 4, 5, 6, whatever, and I can have that many people in a trial week at the same time. But they don't know there are others in the trial week. And there's nothing that is going to shine a brighter light on the perfect person who is the right match for you than this. Because not only are you sort of seeing how they work, right? Are they pinging you every five minutes? Maybe you're okay with that? I'm personally not, but. So are they pinging me every five minutes? Are they I can see how fast they're moving through the tasks. I can see their tasks as they go. And I could cut the trial week short too, by the way. Like, if day two, I already see that you totally are not my person. I can, you know, thank you very much. I'm going to pay you for the rest of the week. But, you know, we're done here and you see them in comparison to the other people. So that's like my favorite thing. And in fact, we've just had so much success teaching the trial week system and doing it ourselves as we grow our own team that I. I just want to do a trial week for everything in my life.

Right. I was going to say it takes that pressure off of everybody.

Everybody. And for your VA too. Right. Because they get a sense of like, is she going to be crazy? Is she like a micromanager? Is she. You know what she likes. So. So I love a trial week.

Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah. And I do that with clients, too. I mean, like, you do it also, like you said, you really can extend it across the board and structure it differently. And of course, in terms of a VA or any kind of hire, pay them for that week and make it very clear because.

Absolutely.

I guess. How would you present that? Because I could see that being a hurdle for some folks. What's the messaging look like when you say, this is how we want to do it?

So we basically have a templated message and it says it's in the contract and it's in the email. And it's like, understand that before there ever invited into the trial week, there's been a whole bunch of vetting prior to that. That's happened sort of in an automated fashion. Right. So they've. They've jumped through all these hurdles up to that point. And then we say, you know, we've. We'd love to invite you to a paid trial week, and if this sounds good to you, please sign the agreement. And then we have all the details in the agreement, and it's pretty straightforward. I mean, we've never had anybody say, no, we. We don't. I don't want to do that.

I like it. And I don't see that often. It's never really been said, you know, like you said the Easter egg thing, you know, you know, you got to read to this point, follow these instructions, send me an email with this specific subject line and blah, blah, blah, you know, that whole thing.

And that's all good. Like, we still do elements of that in the. In that Part I was telling you about, you know, that is mostly automated. But and the other thing I want to say about the trial, the paid trial week is that sometimes we've had clients who.

They finish the trial week and they've got, let's say four people going through it and they have two people and they're really torn. They really aren't sure. You could go into another paid trial week. Nothing. You have to just end after one week. Maybe we make it a trial month.

It's as flexible as you want it to be. You're the boss.

Yeah, that's right. So what do you find that the most common bottleneck? Because there's, there's so many processes that we're all dealing with. But what's the most common thing that you think if there was a hire for that role or a series of tasks. Let's say social media.

Hands on social media. Yeah, I mean this is. Well, not to cut you short. Is that good? No, I just, I think that, I mean it's just the one that whenever people reach out to us they're like, I just, I hate social media so much and I just want somebody to do all of my social media. Um, and so people. So that, that's one of the first things. The other thing is like basically any and all of the tech related stuff and then what? The last thing I ever handed off, which I wish was the first thing I handed off, which is more of a bottleneck than I even realized, is my email. Right. But isn't that also so scary? Like the thought of that is so scary. It's just like, oh, what if they delete something really important? Or. But you know what, it's actually.

First of all, like in Gmail.

My VA doesn't delete anything. She archives everything. Which is the same thing as deleting in Gmail.

It means you can go back and look it up and bring it back if you need.

And if something is super important, it's going to come back into your email. So if somebody, if something actually got deleted. But it's just so wonderful to walk into your office, turn on your computer and there's like maybe four emails sitting in there that she has saved for you with a little note attached to it. We use a great plugin called oh God, I'm going to forget it. It's simple gnotes or something. And what's so amazing is it puts this little highlighted highlight. Do you know what I'm talking about?

I've never used it. No, I'm very curious.

Though it gives you this little highlight. So I could go into that email. So let's say it's a customer service email and someone says whatever they say. And. And she's left it there for me because probably she didn't know exactly how to respond, otherwise she would have responded to it herself. Right. So it's sitting there. So I'll go into just right straight into that email and I'll say, tell this person that the answer is bananas or something. And it just shows up, like, right there in the index of emails. In other words, I don't have to forward her an email with an explanation. It's just right there.

So it's layered on top of Gmail.

It's layered on to her. Yes, it's highlighted. It's like a bright yellow. So she automatically sees. And we use that so much. And it's just so great. It's such a great way of saving from the back and the back and forth. And then the other thing, it's not really so much a bottleneck, but it's like something you need in your business. You know, you need it, but you don't have time to figure out how to have it in your business. For example, Google Analytics or SEO. Like, you started your business.

And maybe you were in business for a couple of years with no even understanding of SEO, but now all of a sudden, you know, it's time to think about it, because you're creating all this content, but, you know, you just didn't go about it the right way. You do not have time to stop and take an SEO course. You do not have time to, you know, become a Pinterest expert when you realize, like, how great Pinterest is and you'd like to incorporate Pinterest into your business. So what I have done is those are all things that I needed in my own business. And so instead of going and learning SEO and then trying to teach it to someone else, which is ludicrous.

Because again, like, for me to step off and spend that amount of time, that's just wasted money. I should be out networking, doing joint ventures, writing a new sales webinar. There's a million things I need to be doing to make money. That's not one of them.

And that's also pretty much every CEO or founder of a company should be doing that kind of role. Like what you did.

Yes, absolutely. And we all know it. Like, we all know it, but it just. There are certain things that pull us back like this. So what we do is I'll find Like a great program. And, you know, information is so cheap now. You know, whether it's udemy or just some free stuff I find on YouTube or whatever, there's, like, information is not a problem today. Right?

AI helps too.

Yes, and AI too. So I'll find. Like, in this particular case, I found a great Pinterest course, got some referrals, and was like, this is a good current.

Well, thought of Pinterest course. And I asked my va, do you want to learn Pinterest? Do you want to be in charge of Pinterest? Do you want to, you know, just wear the Pinterest hat? And she was like, absolutely. So she watched the course, I outsourced the learning, you know, and then. And. But then the question is like, yeah, well, what if she leaves? Then, like, she takes all that knowledge with her. No, she doesn't. Because another thing that we do in our business is some of the first things that a VA will do is to create the SOPs for us. So we all know we need SOPs. But let me ask you, Joe, do you. When you go and you're setting up a new tool, like, what is this? Riverside. Okay, so you're setting up Riverside, do you create screenshots and graph charts and a checklist of every single step that needs to happen for this? You're probably gonna say yes.

And you're gonna, I do not. But I love loom videos.

That's what I prefer. Yes. Well, a for you. So that's all you have to do. It's like you're already doing that. You click your loom video and you just say, you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this. But if you add why, it's also really important. So I'm doing this because. And now I'm doing this because now you have this beautiful library. Every time you loom, you send that to your brand new va, your brand new va. You ask your brand new VA to take the loom and create a physical or, you know, like a Google Doc with screenshots if necessary. And the beauty of this is, not only does your VA now know how to do it, I mean, has she made the system for you? She knows how to do it because she had to watch and listen to what you were saying very carefully to translate that from a video into a document. So the same thing happened for this Pinterest situation. She took the course, then she documented, like, where all the files are, how we're setting this up, what the daily, monthly, quarterly things are that we need to do with regard to Pinterest. And so if she moves on to another position within our company or she decides to go to Mars or something, then the next person can just step right into that.

It's so crucial. And that's the. It's such a great way to train anyone on anything. I mean, yeah. Like you said, start with what you know, enough of the process and explain the whys behind it and your thinking. And then it's really up to them. And this goes, I guess, for any kind of training course they're learning for you. They are very attentive. Like, they have to be very focused on the deliberate task at that point. That translates to other people down the line. And it's just a great way to train people. And it's a great way to go back and forth and make sure to clarify. Okay, so is there a gap here? I'm sure there's another phase. This is what I've done at least, is like, loom video, have them digest it, create those docs, and then kind of go back and be like, okay, so is there anything here? Does it actually make sense? Assuming that this is something that really needs that triple check? I guess.

Good for you. Yes.

A plus plus takes more time. Yeah.

For that.

I don't do it for everything.

Yeah. But the good thing, I mean, and the great thing is, is that, you know, we're hardwired as human beings, whatever our role. We could be a fisherman or, you know, an investment banker. Like, whatever we are, we're hardwired to grow. We just are like, it doesn't matter what our job is. We are hardwired to grow. And. And some people are better at it than others or more focused on it than other people. But.

This is an opportunity for your virtual assistant to grow individually, themselves, to contribute to the business in a way that they feel like they have a meaningful impact. And that's such an important part of what I'm focused on, is helping people find virtual assistants who become partners. My virtual assistant that I hired my second year in business is still with me today. And, you know, she's unbelievable. And she is completely invested in our business, you know, and knowing that she has my back and that she trains all the new people that are hired and takes care of all of that, it's wonderful. But that's what people, I think, want and need because we can all go to upwork and there is a, you know, upwork is great and fiverr is great. Right. For one off tasks and projects. But we all need a Real, true team.

Yes.

To get that momentum, to see that growth, in my opinion.

Your opinion spot on with mine, too. Big announcement here. The Hustle and Flowchart podcast is now the newest podcast on the HubSpot Podcast Network. They're the audio destination for business professionals. It's exactly why I joined the network, to expand what we've been doing here. Making business the fuel for your life, not the stressor or the burnout. We want to build fun and make business a big part of who we are and our expression out to others. So you're gonna expect a lot more. More curated guests that sync up with this mission. Also, more topics and episodes from me. And I want you to keep listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Go check out other shows on the HubSpot Spot Podcast Network at HubSpot.com podcast network. Like so to your point, there's actually a family of VAs now that I. Which is awesome because, yeah, there's a gal in the Philippines that we worked with, my wife and I, you know, multiple businesses now, but she's always been a part of them, and now her sister's in there too. And it's like, that's the thing is there's obviously families, you know, if I'm just speaking of Philippines, I mean, there's amazing, very tight families that a lot of them want to learn so much more and excel themselves. And in our original va, ended up going and pursuing a different career, which is great because we set her up for that.

That's amazing.

Yeah. And like you said, it's team. It's almost family to an extent. If you integrate anyone. I mean, there's another. My ops manager. She's been another almost 10 years now in multiple businesses. So she's not. I wouldn't call her a va, but she. And. Hey, Katie. You're probably listening, hey, Katie. But I could see, you know, we also have a VA that she works with. So it's almost like there's a. And I don't know, what are your thoughts on this in terms of a team? Because I would say I'm a lot more the visionary. You know, a lot of founders, I think, find themselves in that role. But then you have an integrator, slash operator type person. And I would say the VA maybe is kind of the operator, or maybe there's another layer there with. With VA's virtual assistants. Assistant. What are your thoughts on that whole structure?

I mean, I think that. So I haven't been.

Our people. The people in my business have roles not so much titles. And so I don't, you know, but I know people, you know, they have their integrators and they have their. What's the other one that there's. Visionary Online Business Manager obm. Okay. And so, you know, I had a colleague who always talked about her obm. Well, I don't have a va. I have an obm. And but then she would, you know, sort of list out what her OBM was doing. I was like, all right, Nika, I guess you're. That's my, that's my partner and my head va. And I just said like, I guess you're an obm. I mean, you're whatever you want to be. Like, I don't care. Like I told her, you put whatever title you want on the, on the.

Signature of your emails, behind your name.

Care less, you know, but it's just sort of like, I think as you grow your, you know, so she, I mean, she really is more than a virtual assistant, I guess, in the, in the way that we think as VAs being taskmasters or you know, just taskers, doers or whatever. So she obviously, I mean, she does so much more than that. She trains everybody. She really just kind of runs the whole business. I could even call her CEO if I wanted to. But I think, I think as, as the business grows and people rise up into more responsibility, then it will just automatically be that they oversee certain people doing certain tasks. I'm not answering your question very well.

No, I think you're right. It's a role based thing. And let's be honest, we're small business owners. We probably don't and shouldn't have this whole hierarchy of the HR department. No, right. Because some people think that way. It's like, I need to. No, no, no, slow down. Like, let's, let's get back to the offer. Like, how are you solving people's problems? How can you package that up as a business? And let's be honest, we want to scale our time because we got to do more of the stuff that we're great at and not get bogged down in the details of things that aren't us.

Totally. Exactly.

However that shapes up for you. So Jen, tell me about. Because I know you have a solution to this and I want to shout it out for you. Front row CEO.com, right? Is that the.

Actually. Well, they could go there too. For Front Row CEO.com, that's a, that's a course that I have. It's a program I can Edit this out, actually. Well, no. I mean, you don't have to. It's kind of my favorite way for people to learn, honestly, because. But it's a program, like, you really have to slow down to speed up with that. It's like four weeks out of your life. But it's like, teach a man to fish. If you learn that program, like, you're set. But a lot of people don't want that program. So. Yes, Joe, I have a. It's. It's CEO Virtual Staffing. And I think the link is CEO CEOStaffing.com okay.

Yeah. CEO Virtual Staffing.com CEOVirtualStaffing.com I have that pulled up here, too.

Yeah. And I've got a really good. There's a. If you scroll to the bottom of that page, there's a resource that I've gotten a lot of positive feedback on, and it's 160 tasks that you can outsource to your virtual assistant. Because a lot that's. That is one of the other big roadblocks that I. That I get from people is like, well, I don't even know, like, from day to day what I do in my business. I kind of flip on my computer and sort of, like, start running. And so this will just help get the gears turning.

That's exactly. I saw that checklist or I guess a list, and I thought that would be very helpful. It's helpful for me to see, all right, what are the options for me, like, what's the menu of things that I'm not even thinking of right now that get my brain spinning and be like, oh, yeah, I probably do, like, half of those and feel like I should do the other half somehow all myself.

Can I tell you one more thing that I wanted to share with you that, like, I was just thinking about recently? That is so exciting. And so we're kind of coming full circle back to talking about AI being, you know, so exciting right now. But, like, a lot of people are saying, like, just automate everything, and now we have an AI and we really don't need people in our business. We definitely especially don't need VAs, but obviously that is not true. But a great thing that we're seeing happen and develop in my business is we have all. We just have mountains of data. So, like, if you ever had a Facebook group and you've had people come in and answer all those questions. Right, yeah. Like, what do you need help with and tell me about your business or whatever. So we just have pages and pages and pages. That's just one example of the valuable data that we have. But it's just sitting there for the most part. I mean, if I write a sales page, I might go to try to scrape some language off of there or something like that. But now.

We can have AI analyze all of that. So I could take all of that data, put it into the right AI. I don't know if it's ChatGPT or Claude AI or which one it's going to be, but this is on the list. So we're going to ask it questions like, what is the number one question that people have asked? We could do that for all these years that we had people submit questions for our strategy calls. What is the number one question? What is a product I could create based on all of this information? What content? Obviously, for days, for years. What's some great content we can create from this? But as great as that AI is, I still need my virtual assistant to do this because I need them to find the data, copy and paste it, organize it, structure it, all of that. But I'm super excited about that.

Yeah, no, I love it. And Claude AI is probably the one I would choose in that scenario just because it can handle a lot more data.

Yep, you're right. You're right.

And yeah, it's a game changer. And you're right. Like you need to. Again, it goes back to workflows, too. I know, we kind of talked about that. So it's like the tools are great, the people are definitely needed. It's definitely like this combination of technology and humanity. Like this has been said multiple times on this, this podcast, different episodes. Is like the humanity doesn't go away. It's even more important.

More important.

And we, we get to think differently because that's what technology does for us. It's not going to go backwards. It's always going to help us evolve our thinking in the way that we show up and. Yeah, and that's where. Exactly where I would use or, you know, work with people and have people kind of learn the things. And it's the data aspect. I mean, there's so many other ways to leverage AI to showcase that data. Now present it with slides. I mean, there's some new. I don't know the names of these tools, but it's like create beautiful. Yeah. So, but workflows, I think just figuring out, okay, how do the people work with the tools, with the data, the existing things, to find a goal that we're. We're shooting for there.

So it's yeah. And that's ever changing. I mean, as the tools change. Although for me, some things, like, I try hard not to ever change. So, you know, as a, as a. As a systems person, I drool when I see, like, the cool ways people are using Notion or Basecamp or Asana. I use Trello and Process street and just all the million things that are out there. So I really, you know, I want to jump ship and, like, put it all, but I. I'm grown up now and I'm just like, no, you just stay put. Is this good enough? How much better is that other thing? Really?

That's the thing. And a lot of them are honestly copying the other, like, oh, you have that. Okay, I'm gonna put that in here. And like, yeah, 100%. I feel like I'm now finally growing up because I used to. Oh, shiny up. And yeah, like, that could help me, but then a lot more work, so. All right, Jen. Yeah, definitely. I want to just shout it out again. CEOVirtualStaffing.com Go get that. That task list, that big 160 tasks on the very bottom of that page. And because this is a resource that so many people have been asking me for, is essentially how do I find the people that can help me for a lot of these tasks, these roles. And yeah, just check it out. Because obviously, you know, with the tools right now, like things like audio, video editing and things like that, like, it's getting easier. Like, things are getting a lot more democratized, I guess, you know, in terms of skill set. So, yeah, I don't feel like you have to go hire some, you know, some really advanced person for a lot of the things that we're doing as business owners. I think that's the thing. I keep grounding people. It's like, okay, it doesn't have to, you know, your whole. Your whole whatever income coming in, revenue doesn't need to go to that one person to do the thing that you just. Yeah, there's ways to rearrange thinking.

I totally agree with you.

Good, good. I want to. Before we wrap up, I want to talk about this Alexa Flash briefing.

Oh, yeah.

Concept. And tell me your, I guess, your background in it, the four years you've been doing it. Yeah, give me the scoop.

It might even be closer to five years. I don't know. I have to check. But. So Alexa Flash briefings came around, let's say, four or five years ago, and they are like many podcasts. When I set mine up, it couldn't be longer. Than 10 minutes. I think that's still the case. You would never want it really to be longer than 10 minutes. Because where these fit in in people's day are in little tiny nuggets, right? It's while you're brewing your coffee, just before you walk out the door, it's long enough for you to brush your teeth because you're listening to it when you're brushing your teeth. I mean, these are. And these days everyone has, we're going to call her Lexi so we don't wake up, wake her up to our listeners. So people have a Lexi Lexi device at least one room of their house these days.

Yeah.

But for people who don't, you can listen to the flash briefings on, on your phone. And what I found, I started it as an experiment. When I learned about them, I thought, wow, this is just so cool to think that someone could just say to their device, hey, Lexi, play my flash briefings. And what happens is. So the ones I have set up, like npr.

Different news shows, like national news shows, and a one that I love called daily positivity, I think is what it's called. This woman's been doing it as long as I have, and it's just a little dose of daily positivity. And they just play however you have them set up in your app in that order. And, and.

They'Re just great. So I just thought, well, I'll just do this as an experiment and see what happens. And it's really been amazing. So first of all, as a content creator, unfortunately my briefing is the news. So I give you the newest latest in the world of digital marketing and tech. So obviously these days there's a lot to talk about.

And that was a dumb idea because that means I have to do it every day. Right?

Stick with it. Yeah.

Yes. But I did have AI stand in for me and it actually worked. It was amazing. With Play ht that uses the very sophisticated replica of your voice, people didn't even know. So that was amazing.

So anyway, but for other, for most people, like if you're an insurance person or whatever you are, like, obviously anybody could sit down at an index pad and jot down one minute when. One minute. A one minute tip that you have for your industry, Right. And you can record that in 30 minutes. You could do a month's worth of content and your VA would just chop, chop, chop, chop it all up, load it up in there and pre schedule it. And like, you're, you're, you're golden. But here's the thing. What is. What is? I'm asking you, Joe. Okay, so what is Amazon other than a big store?

Oh, it's a platform and has an audience that is engaged, integrated. They buy.

And they seem to be everywhere, in every place. What am I missing here?

And it's a search engine.

Search engine algorithm.

Yeah. You're saying all of that essentially, right? Because we type everything in there if we're looking for a book, if we're looking for, like, whatever. So you actually become searchable.

Your Flash Briefing. So if you were to sell softball gear, right, and you had a Flash Briefing about softball, I mean, that would be really smart, because now you also have products people can purchase with their voice from your Flash Briefing. I haven't set that up yet, but you can purchase right from the Flash Briefing.

But I think the wildest thing about it is that people will purchase a product from me or they'll comment on my social media. And the only way they knew about me was from the Flash Briefing. They didn't know about me from any of these other marketing channels that I have. And they're so wildly different from each other. And you can be in, like, six different countries right now. And then I really saw growth when Google Home allowed us to put it.

Over there, as well as an Alexa briefing, or.

Yeah, well, it's not called an Alexa Briefing. It's called a news flash or something like that.

Gotcha.

But, yeah, it's the exact same information, and I don't have to do anything extra. It's all plugged into the dashboard of my RSS whatever thing.

So what am I leaving out? I think. I think that's it. I think. But. But a lot of people started it and bailed because they didn't see. Unlike with your podcast, although podcasting, I mean, you get a lot more insight and analytics with your podcast than you do on your Flash Briefing. It's hard. It's. That part is so. It's hard to just keep talking to the void, you know, and wonder, like, is anybody listening? But I do little experiments. The other day, I asked my listeners to send me a dollar. I was like, just send me. Just. I just want to see who does this. But. But I don't. Don't Venmo me. I want you to use Apple Pay and text it to me. And I gave him my phone number, and I was like, well, let's just see. And a lot of people sent me money, and what I did was I sent them back double. Whatever they sent me, I sent them back double. And because I Didn't want anybody to think I was like scamming or whatever. Like, whatever. But, but it's just like pulling teeth to get people to.

To you know, leave a review or to engage or whatever. So I'm always like trying to think of new ways. Just. Are you listening? Are you out there?

Are you capturing emails or can you do a quick call to action to landing page?

You can do call to action. So whenever, you know, I, and there are a few people. My friend Daniel Hill has a Flash briefing called the Instagram Stories that is really good. And he got permission from Instagram to use the name and right off the bat he and ended up with like, oh my God, so many listeners, like right from day one search engine. And he has, yeah, and he has, he has sponsors. I haven't wanted to do that yet. I think it'd be easy enough to do that. But in terms of email, no you can't. I mean you just can ask, right?

Yeah, it's an ask. It's gotta be audio. And yeah, there's no other.

Like when I do a free workshop or something, I always give the link, but I try only to do that sort of like quarterly. I'll do like a big launch and then I'll set, you know, and I always kind of like joke with them about like don't, don't anybody complain to me because I do not give you ads and I do this for free every single day for four plus years. So I'm just gonna. You're gonna have a commercial every day this week from me about this workshop and then you know, I just sort of make it funny and nobody ever leaves me for that, so.

Well, that's the thing. And they shouldn't be because you're giving more value. I keep thinking of different call to actions, like a text to number thing with a little code or something. I could see that at least audio being helpful. I used to do it on the podcast here and it worked pretty well. It's just having the right system to, you know, and obviously giving them more value for that next step. If it's relevant to what you're talking about there.

Yes. I need to do a better job of it, honestly. I mean it's really such a chore half the time. Yeah, I'm not good. I mean I enjoy it sometimes but like it'll be 11 o' clock at night and I'll think, oh, you know, I forgot to do the Flash briefing so I will literally record it with audio. I mean I'm. Sometimes they're pretty rough because I'll record it on my phone. Yeah. And then I just shoot it as an email to my. My man Irvin. And then he, he edits it, adds the music and then we. Hey, he pops it up there.

Nothing wrong with that. I've done that for, for my podcast too. From the car not that long ago. Voice app. It works. Yeah, it works good. Old batch recording is usually how I get ahead of things, so I don't have to worry. But when you're doing daily, that's a whole different beast. That's wild, Jen. Oh, let's shout it out. It's front row entrepreneur on Alexa Flash briefing. So.

Yes, thank you so much.

Of course. Can't leave you hanging there. Go check her out. And I want to start listening as well because I don't. Yeah, the whole Flash briefing thing, I don't know, my Alexa's broken or something.

Well, when you're ready to set it up, just, I'll help you. So just let me know. It's really, it's an easy one time setup, so let me know.

Cool. Thank you. Well, is there anything else before we wrap this puppy up? I think we covered a lot.

I'm in so much fun. I got to talk about all my favorite things. So I feel, you know, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

You're very welcome. So I'll link everything in the show, notes for everyone listening this far. Go, go free up your time. Go figure out, at least get some ideas and go get that, that document, the 160 tasks. Because that's where I'm going right after this. Because I am, I'm in the mode right now. I'm like, finally like this, like, okay, yep, can't go any further. So thank you, Jen, very much for enlightening me, inspiring me and we'll chat soon.

Thank you.

All right, all right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live. If you need to do the work. But you know, work can be fun and it should be feeling for your life. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list writing a review or whatever it might be. Everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, and I will see you next time.