Brian Bogert - The Steps To Building A Limitless Life

And so when I realized when we can start to shed the layers of what the world has told us, we realign with who we are, then what's beautiful is all the what's in our world become a manifestation of who we are. And so these are probably the handful of concepts that really resonated most because I don't care whether it's relationships, business, health, it doesn't matter what category it is. If you feel like you're not living to your potential or in alignment with who you are, it's not the strategy and tactics. It's not outside in. You got to take the inside out approach and really start to understand how do you unroot these triggers? How do you see yourself more clearly and how do you start to redefine the patterns and your life that have kept you stuck in that self perpetuating drain? Circling down to the tours.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Wiki wiki wiki. Welcome back.

The intro is here.

The intro, intro, intro.

Let's start up the beast. This is going to be a beast of an episode. I don't know. Is that how we. That's the sound of my car when it starts.

You have an electric vehicle.

That's true. It's not sound in my mind when I'm. And he's like.

It's only because Joe makes the sound when he presses the button.

He goes, brum, brum brahm brumm.

I stole some of my kids toys. You know the car toys that make those cool sound effects. I press that because the electric car is not going to supply the sound.

So.

Thank you, McKenna. All right, so we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about Mr. Brian Bogert.

Brian Bogert.

And this is an episode that's long awaited, at least for us. Yeah.

Well, when did you first get in touch with him?

It was like late 2020, I believe.

Okay. So like it's been over a year coming, basically.

Yeah, it's definitely. And we've been, we've been circling and now is the right time. So I'm happy for you to join us. I'm actually looking at the camera. I don't think we're doing anything to camera right now.

No, we're not.

But Brian is here and he is bringing it, man. And we are going to do a round two with him. So you know that this episode was fire. So Brian is. He describes him as well. He claims that there's a sleeping giant in every human. Do you think that's true? After the course of this conversation, Matt?

Yes, I do.

Are you sure?

I do.

I sure as hell think so.

I don't know. I don't know if it's sleeping in everybody, but there's a giant in everybody.

There's definitely giants, but a lot of us have no clue what giant is inside of us.

Well, I know where my giant is.

Oh, dude, you're starting out this thing with that.

Wow. Oh, sorry.

All right.

Brian would appreciate it.

He would love it.

He's a fun guy.

He is a great guy. So this episode, it's gonna be a lot of fun. We're talking about some podcasting stuff. Brian' hit it hard on guesting with podcasts for what, 250 episodes plus just in one year. He went ham.

That's the definition of ham.

And then while we talk about podcasting. So you're gonna get a lot of insights there, even if you don't have one. If you do have one, go to podhacker.com shameless plug and then also. But he's talking about just wild things about things. Mindset versus tactics and how we brought that up a lot on our show. He goes a lot of layers deeper on the understanding behind that and why both of those actually are truly important.

Yes. The mindset versus tactic talk is deep. Deeper than we've probably talked about the Comparing the two in the past.

Yeah, there's more meaning. And we got a little vulnerable, I would say got quite a bit vulnerable with him. And he dug in. That was fun.

Yeah.

So if you want to know some of the mental stuff that's going on, some of the stuff that we struggle with. Yeah. We open up to him on this episode about some of that stuff.

Pretty sure you can relate to pretty much all of it because that's what happens. Yeah. So that's why we shared. That's why we brought Brian here. Brian's amazing@brianbogart.com if you want to go find him. He also has a cool project that's should be live by the time this goes live is. It's called there's who stories. He's basically highlighting the who behind some amazing people. And you'll want to watch these. After you understand who Brian is, go to whobeforewhat.com and you can go check out those videos.

Sweet. And then we will take notes on this episode. We did take notes on this episode. By the time you're Hearing this, you can go get Those notes@flowchartgroup.com that is flowchartgroup.com youm can join our Facebook group and that's also where you get access to the notes.

It is.

And also, we have a wonderful sponsor.

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You've talked a lot about Ahrefs.

We did a lot of talking about Ahrefs, Yes. For years now. And it's a good thing because you hear all the SEO experts come across our podcast. This is the tool they're always talking about is Ahrefs. Well, there's something new from Ahrefs and we wanna tell. Matt's gonna tell you about it. Yeah.

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All right, we're rolling. Brian, we're making this happen. It's great to have you here, dude.

Dude, I'm so excited. I mean, it's been a long time coming.

It has.

We've been circling each other's planets for a while now, so I'm happy we finally found a way to land.

Yeah. Well, shout out to. I think it was Chris Ross originally, actually, that introduced us.

Oh, that's right. That was a while back.

Yeah, that was the first touch. And then I thought it was George Bryant, but I was like. I looked at my records and it wasn't, but he made the reintroduction. Props to George as well. Good guy.

Well, George is the man, so. Yeah. And what a great person to reconnect us after all those months. Right?

George is one of those few people that if, like, he makes a recommendation, like, we don't, we don't even vet him. We're just like, George said it. Let's, let's talk to him.

It's more of a. Well, I mean, it's the same, I mean, dude, that's the same thing. That's kind of relationship that I've vetted with George. You know, that's what's beautiful. It's the same thing. I'll call him and I'm like, you got to meet with these people. Yeah. And no questions asked, he, like, he shows up. Yeah, right. And then vice versa. When he, when he makes an intro every time, I'm like, okay, whoever it is, they're going to be a friend of mine.

I'm sure that's right. It's people first. I know that's your, your M.O. all the way through over profits. And I know he's, we're all the same boat man. So there's always a good thing there. And you've been busy. You were telling us, I mean, you've been. How many podcasts the last year since the world was kind of shut down?

Yeah, I've been. So I don't know the exact number, but the last count was over 250 in the last year. So it's been, it's been, it's been a full roster. But, you know, I was really trying to leverage the time when, you know, we weren't having as much in person stuff, when we weren't traveling around as much, when, you know, we didn't have to get in the car and waste an hour each day. I just was like, look, if we're going to be connecting, how do we connect on a big level? And, and it just, it, it, it started small, honestly, like, oh, let's dabble around. And then it just kind of created a beast of its own. So, yeah, it's been fun and it's been a blessing in disguise because frankly, I had kind of dismissed podcasts pre Covid to my own detriment, frankly. I mean, I now see the value of them. After doing them consistently for a year. I was going to ask, what do.

You learn here along the way?

Well, first of all, I think podcasters in general, particularly good podcasters, are some of the most interesting people I've ever met. Right there. Some of the best conversationalists. They're some of the most intellectually curious people. They're engaging, they ask great questions. So, you know, I'd be lying if I said every one of the Shows I've been on was phenomenal podcasters.

Right.

But, but I've had. I've been fortunate to have more than more good than bad. And so, you know, you just meet really cool people. And I think a lot of the shows that I tend going on are people who also align with me from like a vibration and a frequency standpoint, a direction, a philosophy standpoint. So, you know, you quickly get a community of people that are also like champions for each other. Right. So there's really this community element that can be developed when you actually look for podcasts. And I think I took it a totally different approach than most because I was not really looking at it like, oh, how do I use this as a PR opportunity to grow my personal brand? Yeah. I literally was like, how do I have some really cool conversations with people without building my own podcast? And how do I then figure out how do we come and create some collective impact? Right. Because we're on a massive, massive amount of mission right now to impact a billion lives by 2045. So I looked at it and said, okay, we've got a bunch of heart centered individuals who want to perpetuate good in the world, who not only have voices and things to say, but platforms to distribute to the world. Why don't we start there? Right. When all the, when all the other live stages dried up, because I had 10 stages get canceled out of the gate when Covid hit, it was like, okay, what are we going to do here? How do we calibrate? And I just looked at it as an opportunity to serve, an opportunity to focus on relationships, value and impact, which are all things that kind of guide the way I view the world.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I didn't really know what it would become, but it just started to compound over time. Yeah. And. And now again, it's crazy. I'm booked out six months on podcast. So truthfully, this was one of those where it's like we've been circling each other's plans, like I said. So you just happened to fall into this one window that I had and you were like, can we come? Which meant the universe aligned everything for us. This was meant to be today.

I'm so stoked that it waited till then, until now. It's worth the wait.

Yeah. No, and you picked the right medium too. We were. I was listening to a podcast the other day with the author, Nir Eyal. He was talking about how he was doing a book tour to promote his book, and he went on like all the morning shows, all the, like nationally televised shows to try to spread the word of his book. He said barely a blip on the radar as far as growth goes. He went on a handful of podcasts and he said the, the podcasts are pretty much what skyrocketed the book. So yeah, as far as media goes, it's like it's a whole new world these days. And this, the podcast where it's at.

It is. And I mean if we just look at even what happened during COVID it only exponentially shifted the focus. Right. People, I think are spending less time on mainstream media because they just didn't want to see everything that was coming through. People went even further into putting earbuds in or putting their eyes on a screen that they can control what the content is coming through. And so I mean if you just look at the way the world shifted, it just made podcasting and even more applicable, more accessible, more relevant platform. You know, the other thing I think that's phenomenal about the platform is it's truly evergreen. I mean, as long as the podcaster stays in. Because we know that 95% of podcasts don't ever get like what, over 10 episodes and 100 downloads, something like that. So the majority of them shut down. But, but again, most of the ones that I've gone on are ones that already had some established following, some element of size. I've been on some startups too, but. But the point is they're evergreen. Right. So people truly, if they are going to consume something, stumble on it, a news blip, other than somebody stumbling on your website, maybe seeing a replay of it because you happen to have a cool sizzle reel. It's a one and done thing. Yep. Whereas podcasts have a trailing and trickle effect. And I'm by the way, I don't even think I've experienced the full impact of podcasting in our world yet.

Oh, I doubt.

I'm convinced at this point that there's a 12 to 18 month lag before you see the true impact of like what the following starts to happen because there's a lot of people who consume real time and then there's a lag in some consumption. Sometimes people then will find on something and if you're one of the first three years ago and they binge watch a whole show, you're getting action because now they're sharing and resharing. So it's, it's this really cool dynamic living being that interacts with their community in a way that most media platforms do not.

Yeah, man.

And I didn't know any of that, right? So a year later, I can look at it and see it very clearly for what it is. But that's kind of why I dismissed it, because I was like, oh, it's just another podcast. Like, honestly, to my own detriment, I was like, I devalued it. And now I'm like, man, I'm starting two different podcasts. We've got business in the podcasting world at this point. Like, something that I never even looked at is now not only a revenue generator for us, something that we've done to perpetuate and build our personal and professional brands, but also I've met some of the coolest fucking people on the planet. So, like, I look at it, I'm like, I'm all in on podcasts. Where do I sign up?

Now you're going out the gate with two, man. That's cool. And as a speaker, I'm sure it helped a little bit to get in there, get the confidence to go and just like go hard on it, right? But I mean, yeah, you know, so.

What'S interesting is absolutely now, I mean, I've been speaking for years, but what's interesting is it also evolved the way I spoke, right? Because when you go talk in almost any capacity now, I'm not one of those that goes in with a scripted talk on every time. So, like, I'm not that guy that memorizes the talk and gives the exact same can talk to every single stage I ever get on. So if you pay me 50 grand, you know what I'm going to. No, that's not me. Like, I, I'm all about how do I make it relevant and specific to the audience. Now I have themes, I have messages, but I always integrate different stories, different ways of telling them because we need to understand. And oh, by the way, I also have to use my intuition in those moments to trust the energy in the room to take the message where I need to. But I typically have 45 minutes to an hour to do that.

Yeah, yeah, not much.

So I can, I can, I can warm up, I can kind of ease in. I can hit some bombs early. I can trail people along. That's not how people consume podcasts. That's like, if you listen to some of my first, first few podcasts, you'll see like, I was almost trying to take the stage methodology of speaking into a podcast world where I was trying to give, like, these thoughtful, eloquent, like, answers that I could cram into a five minute window. And I'D lead the listeners down a path so that I could give something of value at the end. And I started to realize, fuck, that, that's not how I'm gonna approach podcasting.

Yeah.

Because that's not how I even consume podcasts.

Right?

Right. I know if I go to a podcast, I'm gonna squeeze five minutes in, right? I'm gonna listen to five minutes. If I interested. If I'm interested enough, boom, I'm gonna figure out a way to transfer and do more. Right. And I'll then consume that. So it's five minutes. So I had to understand what's the value of sound bites. Right. Can you take an entire concept and package it into a three to five minute sound bite max? More likely two to three minutes.

Yeah.

Right. In a really powerful way that you can leave extreme amounts of value and 1. And one of two things happens out of that. People can consume you in a quick way and understand, do they even want to listen any further? Because, by the way, I don't want somebody to listen to 45 minutes. If I can't give them value in five, it's just a waste of their time. Why would I do that? Okay. And then second, it's like, okay, if I now look at each question as an opportunity to get a sound bite, how many soundbites can I cram into 45 minutes?

It's a challenge, huh?

And so it's not so much like, so I talk fast and I'm loud. But if you listen to any of the stuff, like on podcast, man, I fucking bring the fire. Because I'm like, here. I'm here to serve and pour my soul into your audience. And the point is, can I give you a two to three minute sound bite that if they listen to nothing else, they can walk away and have value?

Oh, man. That's the way to go. And that's, that's. That's where we're actually doing a lot of clipping on our podcast now. We're probably clipping too far, though. Like 10 minutes. Yeah, I like your snappy the two to three minutes, man.

Because nobody's gonna consume more than that in clips.

It's true.

Especially, like, that's just my opinion. Like, I. And again, I'm looking at me. I don't. I kind of use myself as a filter. I'm adhd. I get distracted by shiny objects. I see squirrels run across the room and can't pay attention. Like, it's just. So here's the thing. Like, I can focus when I'm like, really dialed in and done on something. But like, I'm not gonna scroll through social and watch 10 minutes of something. No, you've got 90 seconds. 90 seconds to three minutes max. And if you don't have somebody at that point, oh, by the way, include a link and have them go listen to the full episode if they want more.

Yeah.

You give them anything more than that on social, you're losing their attention. You're not gonna actually drive traffic to where you want it most, where you can monetize and get downloads. Mm.

Yeah, that's it, man. I mean, that's the. Think about entrepreneurs in general. Probably all ADHD in some regard, especially if we're consuming content, you know, all. Yeah, man, I like that metric. Jacob, our editor. You hear that? You hear the man? Two to three minutes, we're going to shorten the man.

I just gave you a sound by drop. This one. It's going to be fire, people. Be like, what?

You're making his work a lot easier. You're welcome, Jacob. Oh, man, what's. I mean, after doing these 250 episodes and going crazy, just going ham there, you know, it's like, what, what stands out? Like, was there a message that you've refined that just landed with so many of these audiences? I don't know what audience is, but like just talking about entrepreneurs here and we have a lot of intrapreneurs as well, like just interested in the game, but like, what stands out mainly from all these conversations.

Yeah, so that's a great question. That's the one thing I didn't answer on your speaker question was we didn't.

Look at him anymore.

You get a lot of reps. You get a lot of reps, right? So 250 podcasts plus a number. I mean, I did probably 50 virtual summits in the last year on top of the number of paid keynotes. So, like, my stage opportunities in the last year were three to four times what they would have been any normal year just because of physical capacity. And I was only on live stages before, so there's only so many days I can do that, whereas I can cram four or five podcasts into a day. Right. Which I heavy loaded them in periods when I. When I've had openings. So, but. But I look at this and I say, what are the messages? Right? Like, that's one. We all need to get reps in whatever the hell we're doing. Right? It doesn't matter what it is. Like, there is some truth to the fact that you find and get more Clear on who you are. The more you refine yourself, craft, the more you refine whether you're here. And so this gave me the opportunity to refine, understand how to say things in different ways. Like that's one thing, but the two probably messages that I think were most consistent, and there's many that are interwoven between each of these. But one is really kind of my core life lesson, which is this idea of embracing pain to avoid suffering. And the other is this idea and concept that most people think they're stuck because of the wrong strategy and tactics in their life. But what we know definitively is strategy and tactics will only get you so far. We don't need any more seven step systems in the world. We don't need any more quick pathways to success, right? Like, because at the end of the day, success and all these things should only be determined by the person that's achieving them and accomplishing them and striving for them, not the outside world. So what we know keeps people stuck is a combination of emotional triggers, behavioral patterns, and environmental conditioning. And we start to really understand how these two concepts unweaver. It's really about helping people understand themselves more clearly. Because both of these things understand that the world's conditioned us to chase the what, right? What house, what car, what amount of money, what amount of success. And when we do that, we may get all the what's we ever sought for. However, we're going to almost definitively lose the who in the way, right? I was a perfect victim of that. I lost who I was because I reached a high level of success, because I wanted to chase all the what's what else, what car, what amount of money, right? Right. And then I realized I'm running with people making multiple six figures, seven figures, eight figures in cases, right, that are just as miserable as me. And so when I realized when we can start to shed the layers of what the world has told us, we realign with who we are, then what's beautiful is all the what's in our world become a manifestation of who we are. And so these are probably the handful of concepts that really resonated most. Because I don't care whether it's relationships, business, health, it doesn't matter what category it is. If you feel like you're not living to your potential or in alignment with who you are, it's not the strategy and tactics, it's not outside in. You got to take the inside out approach and really start to understand how do you unroot these triggers, how do you see yourself more clearly and how do you start to redefine the patterns in your life that have kept you stuck in that self perpetuating drain? Circling down to the tours. Yeah, man, that's just what it is. Embrace pain to avoid suffering. Emotional triggers, behavioral patterns, environmental conditioning, who before what. Those are really the handful that probably have been the most predominant. But yeah, all of those integrate awareness, intentionality, leverage and scale. Relationships, value, impact. So 250 shows, man. We've gone in every direction.

Yeah, man.

So yeah, that's.

Those are, those are money though, because both of those ring true. We of course had both of those as some big rocks that we'd love to cover. I know they are deep subjects and you know, we both nerded out on some podcasts. We were telling you about it and we're like, dude, our minds are just blown in every which way. And like Matt, it's rare that he's like texted me like, oh my God, oh my God. I just had brain like, you know, and it was all you. And from some of these and the tactics and you know, strategies, that whole concept has come across this show a lot. Actually. We did a survey about a year ago now, I like to call this out, do this often, but literally split down the middle, 50, 50. They want more mindset, you know, our listeners, they wanted more mindset type topics. And the other side did not want more mindset. They wanted more tactics and more tactics. So it was very interesting to see that survey.

And well, I think the interesting thing is people don't, I think, actually understand like, you know, it's more complex than that. And this is where I'm going to challenge you guys in the survey element because I think if you compare mindset versus tactics, I'm not sure that those two are mutually exclusive.

Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah, 100%.

I think it takes a mindset to deliver on tactics.

Yeah.

But if we actually look at like those are, that's an intellectual narrative to how we approach building our lives, that our businesses, our relationships is like, we have to process through. We need to understand a process. We need to look at the strategy and the tactics to support it so that we can mentally move ourselves in that direction. That's what mental toughness is. Right. That's all that is. Mental toughness is segmenting what is our process in getting there and then putting our mind to it so that we know that we can deliver the action there. Yeah, I'm saying something completely different.

Yeah, I mean, what we need to.

Recognize is that if we. If we look at who we are, right. As individuals, I put us into four different buckets, right? Mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual. We have to understand all four buckets to be a complete and whole self. We have to also push ourselves to actually become the next evolution of who we are in each one of those categories. So it's not just about mindset. It's not just about emotions. It's not just about spirituality. But what I do know is that we are. We are all hardwired to either have an intellectual or an emotional primary narrative, right? We either think more or we feel more as individuals. Think of anybody in your world. True.

Right.

And understanding that about them is a great, interesting thing because if we just understand their intellectual or they operate with their heart, we also know how to enter through to communicate with them. Like my daughter, right? I can only get through to her if I enter in the heart, whereas my son, I have to enter through the head. So we have to be able to balance and regulate between the two. So I was one of those believers that was like, all I need is mental toughness. All I need is mentality if I do this right. And by the way, again, tactics were what followed that anytime I put my mind to something, it was strategy and tactics that delivered on it. There was no art behind it. It was strategy and tactics. I didn't feel my way through anything. I didn't have faith in anything. It was 100%, if I set my mind to it, and I defined this plan, right? So what we've got to understand is that's not the case. The people that reach the highest levels of performance are the ones that understand both the intellectual and the emotional narratives and can balance and regulate between the two because, oh, by the way, they both lie to us. Oh, yeah. So we've got to raise our level of awareness to a point where we can actually be intentional enough to move through and understand in each individual situation. Whoever I'm talking to, whatever situation I'm in, I know, do I need to default to intellect or emotion? Do I need to have a blend of the two? So that's where I'm going to challenge you guys, at least on that thought process, is mindset and tactics are the same thing. Of course you're going to split your audience because they don't know the difference.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah.

But what I'm saying is it's not that shit that keeps people stuck. It's the stuff that's inside side. It's the Stuff that goes undealt with. It's the fact that we never allow ourselves to feel because the world has told us not to do so. Right. We need to feel in order to heal so that we can progress and move and grow in each category in our life. And the only way that we can do that, I told you, it's mental, physical, emotional and spiritual. Right?

Yeah.

You've probably also heard as you, if you say you geeked out on different content, you've probably heard this philosophy as well. Right. We've got this idea as well that we've lost the art of feeling, we've lost the art of thinking. We don't learn how to do that anymore. They don't teach us how to do that. They teach us literally not to feel and they teach us how to memorize knowledge or sometimes how to be resourceful. But we've lost the art of thinking, we've lost the art of feeling. To be complete and whole individuals, to truly maximize what we're going to do in our businesses, we have to be whole individuals. There is no work life balance, there's only integration. There's one life, one self. But it's in all these categories, so we're going to pay attention to it. So how do we evolve through each one of these categories? Mental, emotional, physical and spiritual? Well, I've got this idea that for us to be complete and whole selves, we have to think about our thinking, think about our feeling, feel our thinking and feel our feeling. It's in that quadrant. We have to take those four things and apply them and layer them on top of mental, emotional, spiritual and physical. Now all of a sudden we've taken a two dimensional world in each realm and we've seen this world in a more three dimensional way that we now know how to move through. I know that sounds like abstract and crazy in certain ways, but like this is the shit nobody's talking about. Yeah. And this is truly how we actually start to change the patterns in our own life, the multi generational patterns that we've inherited and start to recognize that we actually can have a little bit more influence and control over our destiny than we've ever given ourselves credit for.

Man, it's so true. I can, what you're talking about here is perfect. Yeah. Because this is probably this week for us or a lot of last couple of months is really understanding ourselves individually, but also, you know, Matt and I together as a company, as a unit here. And I would say you lean more the intellectual first, I'm more the Feeler first. And it wasn't until kind of recently where we figured that out and we start to identify some blind spots or some things that were probably super clear from everyone around us. And it wasn't until we've had some trusted individuals that really know us, call us out in a loving way, but call us out on our shit, like, dude, you don't see this? I see it. Everyone else sees it. You should probably be aware of this. And then now it's like, those things have been called out and we're like.

Like, what do we do? Most of our blind spots, though, are rooted in emotional triggers, right? When you're interacting with somebody, right? This is. This is. I'll give a perfect example. I mean, geez, I dealt with shame for a long time. I never even knew it, right? And I'll just quickly describe shame in this context, right? It's. Most people think it's, I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough. I'd be lying if I said I never had the narrative there, but it was not my. My common one, which is why I never knew I had shame. But Brene Brown outlines best, right? When you shut that down, you show up in the arena and you're ready to go to battle. It's, who do you think you are? Right? So I literally pulled the throttle back in my life because every time I did something major, I felt the need to apologize for it. My shame kicked in. I couldn't live too big because I didn't want to make other people feel badly about what I was doing, right? And so there's a lot of cool stuff that I've never even done. But my shame also was something that held me back, right? My number one role that I care about on this planet is being a husband and father, Period. End of story, right? And so my wife would come to me. My wife is a feeler and I'm a thinker, right? But I'm also someone who has the ability to feel. I have a deep level of empathy, especially at this point in my life. I didn't always feel. At one point, when I shut off physical pain, I shut off emotional pain for almost 30 years, and it took me a long time to learn that. However, now we're in a position where we can communicate. But if she were to say something to me, like, hey, you gonna spend two hours with our son on Saturday? Totally innocent, not charged question, my shame emotional trigger would cause me to hear it through that filter and be. And then I would hear it through an implication in her tone that I haven't spent enough time or been a good enough husband and father. So immediately I respond in a defensive manner, right? Because all of a sudden I have to defend the fact that I am a good husband and father. And I list the 10 things that I've done in the last four days to prove that I'm a good husband and father. Now what I've done is sparked my wife's emotional trigger and this need and desire to feel safe, especially when there's a man around who's got a stronger energy.

So when you look at relationships, you look at client relationship, you look at business partnerships, you look at romantic ones, it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, what I'm an expert in is people and human behavior. If every single person on this planet just spent time studying people and human behavior, we'd be in a whole of a lot better, fucking better world, because we know how to interact with each other. We'd know how to understand how to see these things and understand that. Oh, by the way, even though my wife reacted because I had a bigger energy, was that my fault that she has that trigger in her? Absolutely not. But is it my responsibility? Absolutely. But again, if I can't think about my thinking, think about my feeling, feel my thinking, and feel my feeling, I'm not going to progress to a point where I can start to recognize that my responsibility is actually not to react from a place of defensiveness, but instead respond and hear exactly what she's trying to say to me.

The stuff that keeps people apart in business and in life is emotional triggers. So when one is emotional and one is intellectual and you can't understand how to feed off of each other, you have a blind spot and you feel the resistance internally. You know, it's there. You know, there's some frustration.

Yeah, you.

But. But again, we don't talk about that shit because we shove that down in this society. We show up when I have a smile on our face.

Yeah, buddy, right?

But when you feel that resistance, what that is, that. That's. That's an energy drain. That's what's taking you away from who you are and what you're supposed to be doing and how you're supposed to move forward, and all that's rooted in is in a trigger.

Yeah. No, dude, it's so true. Like, as a feeler, if I'm caught up in whatever I'm feeling the anxiousness here, I'm getting tightness in my back, I'm not going to Tell everyone. I'm just going to be kind of twitchy, you know, I'm going to be trying to work it out. But it's like that shit's just emotions, you know? And now I'm able to feel that and identify it for the longest time. I haven't for most of my life. I mean, how does that show up for you? Because you're more intellectual.

Yeah.

Well, it's interesting because we're having this conversation, and this is a topic we'll probably get into, is the topic of imposter syndrome. But when we get into. When we get into conversations like this, where the conversation gets a little more heady, a little bit more, you know, mental, my brain starts going to like, how do I find a tactic in what he's saying? How do I find a systematic way to do what he's talking about? How do I. How do I break this down into a method?

I can give you a philosophy to walk through a framework, but it's not. It's not a tactic because it's different for everybody, right?

Yeah, but that's how this sort of imposter syndrome manifests for me a little bit. It's not that, like, the person on the other end of the screen is somebody that I don't feel like I belong in a conversation with. It shows up in, like. I don't know if I can match this person. I can match them intellectually from, like, a tactical standpoint, but I don't feel like I could match them from the mindset, mental game standpoint. Like, you've probably already noticed just the dynamic of this conversation. It's been a lot more Joe and you chatting back and forth, and I'm kind of silent because I'm sitting here going, all right, how do I add my intellectual, systematic spin to this? You know?

Yeah, but by the way, I think that that's also a really interesting way that you just did it, because you just even talked about the way that you're hardwired to operate. And here's the thing that you both just described. It's like Joe's sitting over here saying, hey, look, I've got this opportunity where I now know I'm a heavy feeler. And if I can be aware of what those feelings are and can understand which feelings exist, which ones are actually real in the moment, which ones are mine versus the ones I might be perceiving from someone else in the room. Right. If I can raise my awareness on that, then I can be intentional about, and those emotions no longer have to keep me trapped, those emotions no longer have to dictate my future. And you on the other side are sitting here saying, yeah, okay, it's interesting. I'm here. Imposter syndrome kicks in because I'm typically identified as a really intellectual guy. Right. I know that I can think fast and move fast, but I'm not now in a position where I'm processing at such a high rate. I don't know where to go with this. And I'm trying to bring it back to something that I can understand.

Yeah, you're in my head right now.

Right. In both cases, what you've just done, though, is just outlined a level of awareness, which means that you're ahead of most people.

Yeah.

And so to your credit, I think what you just did is you gave a tactical example, truly real time, where you just. You're like. You're spinning yourself down, like, okay, where do I go with this? You interject, and you give a really eloquent thought process. I'm like, wow. No, I just. I just. I can articulate what I just experienced that moment. Guess what? That's all I'm saying. You were triggered in that moment based on imposter syndrome because you were like, can I keep up right now?

Right.

Wow. No, it's so true. And we just. We lean on each other because you'll see the same thing with Joe if we have a Facebook ad expert on. And I'm going in the weeds about, like, you know, targeting and, you know, what the ad copy should look like, and, like, we'll get real tactical and in the weeds, and Joe tends to be a little more quiet on those episodes, so we'll. You see that dynamic shift. And I think both of us get on our own heads of, like, man, I don't feel like I'm speaking up up enough on this one. And then, you know, then I start to get in my head of, like, oh, everybody's gonna think I'm shy. And I. And like, maybe Matt doesn't talk as much, and maybe Joe's the alpha, you know? And so all this stuff starts spinning in my head, and then I. And then the imposter syndrome is like, all right, I'll just let Joe do the work here.

Yeah, but, you know, I mean, even what you just described there, I mean, it's a perfect example on both sides, because how many people operate that way, right? How many people are even in a boardroom? They're in a business meeting with 10 people in the room. They're there with their boss. And, and they hesitate. Even though their gut tells them they know what to say, they hesitate because the world has told them what they have to say isn't worthy.

Right.

Everything you just described there is only about can I keep up? And what is the perception others will have of me based on however I handle myself in this situation. Am I going to appear good enough? Am I going to appear smart enough? Am I going to appear like I can have an intellectual conversation with this person? Am I going to feel like I can connect with them on a human level and move them in a way that I can carry my weight as Joe? Right. I mean, that's what it all comes down to. And so all that is, is that's basically the world telling you all of the shoulds in the world and all the shame that's based in everything that's embed and all the narratives that tell us we're not good enough. Right? I talk fast and I'm loud. Point is, that's the case. I think fast, I talk fast, I move fast. It's just something I own. That doesn't mean that I'm any better or worse. But you know what? When I was in the B2B corporate world, do you know how many times people would tap me on the shoulder, be like, slow down. Yeah, you got to slow. You got to slow. You got to slow down. You got to quiet your voice. This is the only way that somebody's ever going to buy from you if you do this is you have to handle yourself like this and look a certain way and get custom suits. Make sure you have that. Because if you don't have that custom suit and oh, and if you don't have that hundred thousand dollar Escalade, you're definitely not gonna. So just don't. Right? It's all these narratives and guess what our shame tells us. Like, okay, well, I guess who I am. My body shrinks down, my start biting my tongue, my brain starts to race. I might sweat, but at the end of the day, like, if you just understand, like, and you start to trust, surrender, and breathe that your internal voice is the only voice that you truly want to listen to, that you need to listen to, right? And you can start to quiet the noise of the outside voices, the voices of the world, then imposter syndrome doesn't exist. It's only when you care what others might view you based on their lens of how they're going to perceive your insecurity in this moment.

Yeah.

That'S a great reframe. I mean, that's awesome.

It is, man. I'm curious about triggers. So triggers within the dynamics of mental and more feeler. How would you navigate that?

Yeah. So, you know, triggers are interesting because they. I genuinely believe that triggers are kind of the root to people getting everything they ever desire. I like more so than even behavioral patterns and environmental conditioning, because you can reverse engineer a trigger if you know the behavioral or. Sorry, you can reverse engineer the patterns and the conditioning if you know the trigger, but you can't the other way around. And so when you think about triggers like this is. This is one of those things that people don't understand how hardwired and ingrained these things are, often even generationally and inherited or that's conditioned into us. So a trigger is. I gave a couple of shame triggers of mine as an example, right. I get tapped on the shoulder and I shrink down. I react and I'm defensive. In the case of my wife, I never wanted to actually tell the world some of the really cool stuff that we've done. It was something that it was what it was. So those were three different examples. So we can kind of use myself as a case here. But triggers are those things that we don't even necessarily know are happening to us unless we raise our level of awareness. So it could be, you know, my wife looks at me a certain way for not loading the dishwasher incorrectly or for loading the dishwasher incorrectly. But what's really happening is my emotion that I'm processing in that moment has nothing to do with her, has nothing to do with the dishwasher. It has everything to do with the way my grandma looks like at me when I was five, Some subconscious. So I will cause a reaction in that moment that. That might again perpetuate an issue in that. In that room that had nothing to do with me or nothing to do with the dishwasher. It had everything to do with how I was triggered in that moment. Right? And triggers will literally keep us stuck. And we've all been stuck. It's okay to be stuck. We'll all be stuck again. It's just not okay to stay stuck. Right? And so if we look at triggers, all triggers are designed to be pulled. So we can either allow our emotional triggers to pull us and cause us to react and cause damage, because when we react, that's typically what happens, is it causes damage. Or we can pull the trigger on our emotional triggers and choose to respond. The difference is how we approach it. The world teaches us the outside in method. Right? And we'll get to that at the very end. But, like, we're actually taking the exact opposite. We're going to say, let's go. Let's go inside out on this. First, we've got to understand and raise a level of awareness. So when I brought attention to you guys like that, you're at least aware of some of these things. You're already a step of most people, our minds process 11 million bits of information, but we're only consciously aware about 40. So until we can go through a systematic process of bringing the unconscious, the conscious, the unaware, to the aware, it's going to feel like we're victims. It's going to feel like we're fate. It's gonna feel like we have no influence and control over our destiny. Right? Same thing with triggers. Triggers will literally cause us to remain stuck and not actually understand what's happening to us. But if we take the time to raise our level of awareness, then we're great. So I had to become aware that shame was in my life, right? That I was affected by shame. That shame had actually affected me in multiple areas in my life. In my marriage and my personal relationships, my marriage with my parents, my brother, my. My business, my philanthropy, philanthropic work, my health, my body, literally. I had to recognize that shame had a massive impact in my life. Right? The unavoidable precursor to change is acceptance. So until you accept the current state of things, you cannot alter them. Let's just call that what it is.

That's true.

So it has to start with awareness, and then it moves to ownership. Okay. Ownership means I have to now own really two things. One, that I have been negatively impacted as a result of this emotional trigger. Again, I'm using shame in my own example to lead us through this. But I had to understand that shame, in this case, right. Not only was there, it affected me negatively, but that I also was in a position where I reacted and created damage. So I have to own that. That's one. The second step to ownership is anywhere you create damage, you need to go find a way to repair.

Okay, so little examples of this. Right now we're in a scenario. If my wife were to do something, if I react, which most of the time, I don't anymore because I put a lot of work in on this, but if I react, I better damn well go back relatively quickly and say, you know what, dear? I'm sorry I was triggered in that moment. I didn't pause enough to tell you what was going on, and I really want to apologize. That was not my intent and it was 100% my fault. I'm sorry. That's ownership, right? I dealt with shame. I've dealt with anger at a deep level, one that I just recently unpacked. I mean, anger was buried so deep for me, it could barely be excavated. I mean, I'm talking anger that I didn't even know was there. 98% of people in my world said, you're not an angry person. But guess what? The one person that felt it more than anybody was my wife. Right? So when you take a personality like mine, big, talk fast, lots of energy infuses life into people, and you do that. On the negative side, guess what? I can crush someone's soul and not even know I'm doing it. I had to own that. I had to own that before I could start to move through it. I had to own that I did it. And I had to own with her that, yes, it was my fault and I'm going to own what my actions are going to be. Moving forward.

Then we've got to unroot it, right? This is where it's. Most people start to get lost. Those first two steps, most people can get through. And when I say this, it's not to be discouraging, it's just to say like, it is very challenging. So know that going into it. Yeah, we've got to unroot whatever emotion is there, right? So for shame, for example, I had to genuinely understand what is my root or roots of shame. I know what they are. I've done the work. They aren't mine. I'm not going to share. Those are mine to keep to me. Okay? But I know what the root of roots are, and I know that they're. Almost all of them are situated between ages 6 and 12. Almost all of them. I understand where they are, I understand how they happen. And oh, by the way, I also understand the other routes in my life. They perpetuated the pattern of shame in my life, my professional interactions, where it manifested in my marriage. I've got to unroot not only the beginning, but I need to understand where is this actually happening in my life? Because if I don't unroot it, I can't actually move through it. And that last segment, by the way, is movement. Movement is really two things. One, I have to understand how does the movement. How does this emotion move through my body? How does it manifest in my body? Right. I told you, in a couple of different situations, shame literally shows up differently for me in the professional workplace. If I'm too Fast and too loud. It causes me to shrink, feel small, be unworthy, right? If I'm at home, it causes me to get defensive, maybe a little bit aggressive, have some of that anger come out, right? And so I have to understand. It literally feels different. One I shrink down, the other one I puff up. They're both shame. How complicated is that? Now, I've unrooted all this stuff, but shame shows up differently in my life. And, oh, by the way, shame is the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing because it shows up as fear, guilt, scarcity, worth, perfectionism, defensiveness. It doesn't. I mean, there's. The list goes on. Scarcity, okay? And so it's really hard to be like, oh, yeah, the root of my scarcity is actually shame. So how do I get to the root of my shame? It gets highly complicated. But in my case, I've got over six roots to my shame. And I have to understand, or, sorry, six different ways that shame moves through my body, okay? And I have over 50 triggers, so I have to understand not only does shame move through my body and the way that's showing up as worth in this way, and these are the types of things that trigger me. Now I have to start matching how it moves through my body to the specific things that put me in that state so that I can pause in those moments and ask the question, is this true or is it something to do with the root or my original trigger? And ask myself, can I just take a breath and recreate a different path in this moment? And we start to be able to take control in those moments. That's when we can start to redefine patterns in our lives and create new patterns for generations to come.

Now, how did you come to. You said you have over 50 triggers. How did you come to that? Like, how did you determine that these are my triggers? And did you, like, systematically list them out? Or is it just awareness?

Yeah, awareness. You literally have to put yourself into a position where you just truly are in your body and your mind at all times. When I talk about, like, the mind body connection, you know, the faster we can connect the 18 inches that we've got to travel between these two areas.

Right?

And be able to actually balance and regulate between the two more. The more aware we can be as to what's actually happening. Right? Because if we get triggered in a moment, we can intellectually kick in real time and be like, nope, that's emotion. That's not the truth in the moment. Right. See? And rationalize what it is. This is where your superpower Matt would come in. Right? And on the flip side, there's gonna be things that would intellectually trigger me that I would feel in a certain way. Right? Like I. I would hear something. I wouldn't actually be. I would hear something and I would palpably feel it in my body. Right. So I had to be able to understand, okay, if I'm feeling this, what is it actually connected to intellectually so that I can then create that pattern. It only happens through a high level awareness. And for me, because of the way my brain works, I happen to be able to recognize patterns relatively quickly. So I have an advantage right in my own set. Plus, I do this for other people. So in my own world, it becomes much easier to apply it.

But awareness is there. But a lot of people will literally journal on these things. Right. Once I've unrooted it, okay, this is where I've unrooted it. I get it. Got that. Now I've got a. I need to know how it moves through my body. Okay? Here's the three ways I've been able to identify how my scarcity moves through my body. Right? This is how. This is how I show up. These are the types. And then I need to start paying attention to the situations and triggers that put me in that state. That's the only way to do it. By the way, when I say this is where most people get lost, the unroot. We lose a lot of people when we actually start patterning and through movement, people need, need a lot more holding through that area. It's hard to do. It is probably one of the hardest things we will ever do as individuals. But I can guarantee you it's the most worthwhile. Because the pat that what you get by walking this path is genuine joy, freedom, and fulfillment in your life.

Would it be different?

All the things that you thought were impossible are now absolutely possible. And this isn't a promise. I'm not sitting here being like, you do these things and you're going to be free. No, this isn't the seven steps. This is hard work that takes years and there's no final destination. It's not like you go through one of our courses and you're just, you're just ready to go. No, this is over a decade of intentional work on myself. Right? Perfected through working with hundreds of entrepreneurs and individuals to help them understand who they are better. Like, we literally have to understand how these things work. But this is why I say, like, that's what's on the Other side. That's why we often say we work with giants and help them become legends by helping them grab what they think is just out of their grasp. Because typically, what's preventing us from being exactly who we want to be, reaching our potential, having the impact in the world we desire. Guess what? It's us. Nothing else. Nobody else.

Yeah. What you're saying right here, it sounds like. I mean, this is why I love just your bio. I was just looking at it because some of these things you said, the very first thing is, there's a sleeping giant in every human. I was like, man, that is so.

I believe that to my core.

Oh, yeah. And you're saying it right here. Would you say that it's so difficult, or. One of the difficulties would be because we attach to our identity or we think there's this identity that we've had throughout our lives. And when it comes to the action or unrooting phase of things, you're like, but that's me. I'm uprooting. Like, that's all I know.

By the way, that's 100% the case. Because as you start to evolve as an individual, it also means saying goodbye to portions of yourself that you maybe once thought were there. So we have to start to get ourselves to a point where we start to recognize seasons of life. Right? And here's the thing. When people are feeling stymied in their office of older potential and stuck, why do they want to do the same things over and over again? Why do they want to be the same person? Because that's what's gotten them to the place that they feel miserable. Right? So if we just recognize that, oh, by the way, the discomfort that we're going to move through, the pains that we have to embrace to actually avoid suffering in our lives, right? Those are the things that actually allow us to become who we already are and who we want to continue becoming. I don't want to stay who I am right now. If I wake up tomorrow and I'm the same version of me, then my life is over.

Exactly.

Again, there's no final destination. I'm serious. Like, it's only constant evolution itself. The day that I wake up and I'm no longer growing, it's probably gonna be the last day I'm on this planet. Because the universe will be like, all right, Brian's tapped out. Yeah. Like, what?

What.

What other reason do we exist to be here?

Yeah.

Yeah, man.

Be the best versions of who we can be right now.

Well, and this is the other topic and this is, I know, is the other point. So we hit on one really deep, but is embracing pain and you know, avoiding suffering. And then the piece that you didn't say, which I've heard you say some other parts, is to gain freedom. So embracing the pain. And that's, I've actually since been, I've been having that as a mantra in my mind for the last, since we reconnected because I saw that last year and I'm just like, and it'll show up. And I think it's because I've been doing the work, being aware of some of my own triggers and stuff. But it's like, okay, I could see how this can lead to suffering if I choose to just either let this go as is or if I keep showing up in this situation, like I have a two year old or almost two year old and there's definitely patterns there. And I was just kind of going with the patterns. But then that phrase, embrace the pain to avoid suffering, to get freedom and gain freedom. And I was like, dude, okay, I can identify the painful thing. I can definitely identify the suffering that I don't want to deal with, which is like, I got to go bed, go to bed a little earlier. That's for me. She wakes way too early. I'm like, well, that's the suffering. How about we change this part here, huh?

But dude, acknowledging the suffering is the very first step in that process. Because we got to understand that, right? Like so many people set out to shoot goals and targets, but they don't actually think about what do they want to avoid in their life.

Life. Sure.

Yeah, right. Like you get what you focus on. So I'm not saying focus on what you want to avoid, but you have to at least understand it because it's the bookends that are going to help with calibrate the path that we go down in life. If we don't set one over here, guess what? We, we're going to limit ourselves often on the high end because we set goals that are, we're going to design to protect ourselves. Right? We don't actually think big enough, so we already automatically protect ourselves and then we don't set a limit on the downside. So really there is no bottom. Right? We can just suffer perpetually. So I'll unpack this concept real quick because since we hit on it, I want the listeners to get some value out of this. So I'm going to hit this one fast and hard. So if you need to slow me down to half speed to Consume this while you're listening. Please do, because I'm telling you, like, slow down and listen. So we need to understand, right, the narratives of the world. The world tells us to reduce, eliminate, or avoid pain, right? Every. Every narrative, right? It's painkillers, it's numbing, it's watch tv, it's a void, it's. Oh, you can do that tomorrow, right? That's, that's what it. That's what it is. And by the way, this is a fight or flight natural evolutionary response, because if you cut your leg 100 years ago, you could die.

Mm.

But in this modern era, like the methodology around fight or flight, around avoiding pain just doesn't apply anymore. But let's understand pain and suffering. Pain is defined as short term, intermittent, a direct cause from something and alleviated once that direct cause is removed. And then we as human beings screw it up, like we do with everything. We put adjectives in front of it. We say acute and chronic. Acute maintains the definition, but chronic inherently changes it because it implies that it's no longer short term and it persists after the direct causes removed. So let's stop calling that chronic pain. Let's call it what it is, suffering. Okay? Now pain is interesting because it's independent of the person experiencing it. So drawing any normative conclusions around it is very, very difficult. Except for one thing. It's a universal human experience. We all experience pain. Now suffering, on the other hand, we don't want to even admit even exists, particularly when it's direct result of our choices. But let's understand this concept. We can embrace the pain of hitting the gym for 30 minutes a day to avoid the aches and pains of a sedentary lifestyle. We can embrace the pain of a difficult conversation with a loved one or spouse to avoid a loveless marriage that's going to end in divorce or being stuck in a marriage when we actually want or need divorce. We can embrace the difficult conversation by having our kids put down their mobile devices at the dinner table in the fit they're sure to throw, to avoid the suffering of years of lost meaningful conversation and connection we'll never get back as business owners. We can embrace the pain of firing our top salesperson who's contributing the most to top line growth, to avoid the suffering of stagnant growth and losing all of the top talent because they were the greatest cancer in our culture. See, the list goes on. This applies to everything in our lives. The problem is that most people don't think about the other side of it, right? What is the suffering I wish to avoid? How to identify the pains that I need to avoid and learn to embrace them. Because it's not about putting ourselves into unnecessary or excessive amounts of pain. It's about identifying the proper ones between where we are today, where we want to be, and recognizing those as steps to our purpose, our path and our vision, and becoming who we want to be. So I believe that we all must choose our pain or our suffering will choose us.

That's powerful. So let's say I kind of know the destination I want and I know the. I think I'm trying to think of the best way to word this question. And I guess the issue I'm having is how do you know what pain to embrace? Like, you might know what the suffering is, but you may not know what the best painful step is to avoid the suffering. Like, how do, how does, how do you identify that?

So that's a great question. I think the first thing is that most people give up too quickly because they'll try one or two things and if it doesn't work, they're done. Right? So I think part of finding the right pain is about calibrating to understand. But let me, let me walk you through the first two steps with a couple quick stories because it'll help you understand the concept. Right? So when we talk about acknowledged suffering, again, it's like one of those things where people are like, what, Brian, you're already talking about pain now you want me to think about suffering? It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Right? But again, just trust me, it's not gonna last long, but I've got a 38 year old client, moved 26 times by the time he was 18, lived with his mom, his aunt, his dad, his grandma, never lived in the same place twice, never had the same set of friends twice. The longest he'll ever live in one period was two years. So in 16 years he moved 24 times. Okay, like, just no stability, constantly nomad, constantly on the all. Constantly has to be by himself. Doesn't anybody depend on. He's got to learn how to feed for himself. And he never learned how to give or receive love. Fast forward today. He's got a beautiful wife, two beautiful girls. That's all he ever wants. He wants a strong connection with all of them. He wants to be able to love them. He wants them to trust them. He wants to have empathy, connection. He wants to have passion in his marriage, Right? He wants to be able to give and receive love at the level with those three because that's all that matters to him. So here's the thing we know. If he sets his sights on where he wants to go, his purpose, his legacy, what he wants to do for his life, he knows that 40 years from now, when his wife and him are sitting on his ranch in Texas, and he can have that image burned into his brain of him sitting there and the wind blowing through the brush, and the only thing breaking the silence is the laughter of his daughters and his grandkids, right? When he can take that and he can burn that into his soul, the purpose becomes big enough to overtake the pains required for him to become the husband, man and father that he knows he is, he's capable of being, and frankly, they deserve. But see, in his world, suffering is a life without those girls. The only way that that vision happens is if he actually embraces the pains required. He has to acknowledge that suffering to understand and concrete that vision to his soul. The next step is identifying the pains we tend to avoid and learning to embrace them. I'll use a personal story here. We didn't go into my story, my story today, and we may or may not, and I don't care if we do, but I'll just say for the listeners, I had a pretty traumatic story. I don't have a tricep in my left arm. My lat is gone. My bicep is my gracilis from my leg. I have a physical curve in my spine because of the muscular imbalance in my back. Okay. I learned about 15 years ago that my pain was starting to get to a debilitating level, which is actually suffering.

Suffering.

It was impacting my quality of life. It was no longer chronic pain, it was suffering. But I learned if I stayed lean, I stayed active, I ate the right foods, and I focused on core strength, that that suffering was mitigated to a manageable pain every day. So what I do, 15 years ago, I went and I joined the gym because that's what we all do. We want to get healthy, right? And I went consistently for 30 days. Now I stopped going. That's where most people would have stopped. But because I understood what suffering looked like, because I was already experiencing it, right? And I understood that I wanted to have kids. And at that point I didn't. I understood that I wanted to have grandkids, and at that point I didn't. I was not only able to understand the suffering I had day to day right now, but I was able to concrete that in the fact that 10 years from now, I want to be able to play with my kids. And if the pain continues on this trajectory, it won't. Right? If I want to be with my grandkids 45 years from now, guess what? I better get moving, because I'm already stiff as a board in my early 20s. Like, what am I going to do? So I had to understand that. I had to ask one more question. Is it the pain of working out, the pain of plyometrics, the pain of running, the pain of lifting weights that I was avoiding? Or was it the anxiety in the crowded gym? For me, it was definitively the second. Right. It wasn't a strategy or tactic. It was rooted in an emotional trigger. I would get anxiety because I didn't perform my best in that environment, because of the patterns that have been conditioned in my life. And so I had to ask myself one more question. What do I do? So in that case, I tried a few different things. None of them worked. And then I had to embrace the pains required to build my own home gym with the equipment that I needed, create the space, the time, and the energy to do so. So I had the environment for success so I could truly avoid that suffering. The thing is, to your question, you might not know the pains right out of the gate, but that's why we say you have to identify them. If you go down a path and you've done the work on the front end, you know, the suffering you wish to avoid, that purpose is big enough to overtake any of those pains. So you might as well try 20 of them until you figure out which one is the one you need to embrace.

So it's a process of reps. It's a process of refining. It's a process of growth. It's a process of awareness and intentionality. So it's not easy. Again, no different than the emotional triggers. None of the work that we do here is easy, but this is some of the most meaningful work that anybody can do.

Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

We 100% did skip over your story, and that was not on purpose, because.

By the way, I don't even care. You know what? I kind of figured I think we should skip it today and we should just do another episode and just see where we go from there.

I'm so down that we would be.

Down for that, because I think we got through about half of this stuff, and we're getting close to wrapping up. There is one other thing I want to touch on. You mentioned very quickly that, you know, you don't share successes enough Right. When you were. You were talking about yourself. I don't know if that's a past thing that you've overcome or if it's still a thing. And it's something that Joe and I have actually been talking about a lot lately. We almost never share our successes on. On places like social media. I mean, I rarely even talk to, like, family and friends about successful stuff. And I think there's something rooted there. And, like, it feels like I'm gloating. It feels like I'm. I'm rubbing it in people's faces that we've had this success. And I'm curious, where is that rooted in? Where does that come from? And is there a way to kind of get beyond that? So I feel comfortable. We feel comfortable going, we're badasses, and here's why.

Yeah. So I don't know exactly where it's rooted, but I would say that it's a byproduct of shame in some case for you. And why I say I don't know exactly where it's rooted for you is because I don't know. Right, right. But I will tell you that I've had people have shame manifest in their lives where they feel that way because they had three brothers and they were put against each other highly competitively from the time they were little. And it created this dynamic where. Right. Unless you were the absolute leader, you were not worthy. And so the reality of it was, was that the oldest, who was the strongest and the biggest, was suffering from shame because he felt like he needed to make himself smaller because he just knew the advantage that he had. So he immediately downplayed himself, pulled the throttle back, whereas the other three suffered from self worth, both rooted in shame. So that's an example of where shame could perpetuate. Right. Shame could perpetuate in a family that never really made any money. Right. That would happen. And you're walking around and. And you know, you see somebody driving a nice car or wearing nice clothes and there's a comment like, no, no, we don't do that. We don't have those kinds of things. We don't ever talk about money.

Right.

People and families that are like, we can't ever talk about money openly. Right. Or it's absolutely going to come across as bragging. Right. Those things can perpetuate shame in a pattern in life for someone which would make them feel the need to pull back the throttle. Right. So again, I'm not going to share my particular roots, but I will say that a lot of Those things, we're on that higher end of shame. It's that again, when you show up in that arena and you're ready to go to battle, it's, who do you think you are?

Yeah, man.

Right. And so in that case, that's when I constantly make myself smaller, which means I pull back my actions, which means I'm actually limiting myself. Myself. Yeah. Right. We've got this concept on no limits living, this idea that we truly can live with no limits. It's not that I can go be a professional basketball player. You don't even know my story on this call. But I just told you, I'm a tricep in my left arm. I'm probably not going to go do that. Right. But could I play basketball at a highly competitive level if I chose to? Because I could determine what the path is. I can put the work in to figure out what that looks like. I can live and do that. Maybe I want to be. Maybe I want to dunk, and I can do that really well. And that's something I'm going to train myself to be able to do. Right. Like, there's all of these things that. It's like we put limits on ourselves or the world places limits on us. And that's really all that is. That's the world saying, oh, no, that's not the standard that you can live by. You can't live too big and be successful. You can't. No, you can't. No, don't do that because you're gonna be bragging. Right. But I will tell you that once you start to understand that, you start to realize, like.

Those are everybody else's problems, not yours. Yeah, Right. I think the thing that I always struggle with is I never wanted to be perceived as above anybody. And I still struggle with that.

Right.

I still struggle with that. Right. Like.

I'll get referred to in different ways because of my social media, you know, presence, with different terms that I'm like, what? Like, no, like, I'm. I'm Brian. Like, that's right. It's just silly. And. And I, like, I hear these things, but I, like, I. I view that as, like, no, I'm being put into a position that's above someone else, and that still triggers me because that's just not. That's not how I view things. So what I've started to really sit in is it's like, look, I know. I know my heart, I know my intent, and I know the people that I'm running around, and I know that they're going to be ones that are always going to make sure that I know the absolute truth of how I'm coming across. And so if it ever tips from, like, humility, that's just celebrating success and impact and tips into ego, I'll have my. My legs chopped up from under me. So for me, I've set up a lot of safe holds in it because I don't ever want that to be a concern for me because I can't limit myself if I truly want to unlock others. I just can't. Right. I can't limit myself because part of my gifts are about unlocking other people. And if I limit myself based on shame or however big my. My brand or my profile or our work gets, right, if I hold myself back, I'm doing a disservice to the world. World. Because I know I'm gifted. And I can say that now confidently. I'm one of the best at what I do. I can say that confidently because I know that I've tested it. It's been proven right? But I also had to be able to challenge myself to be able to say that confidently and know that it's like, look, that doesn't mean I'm better than any of you. That just means I'm good at who I am. I'm good at how I do it. And who I'm trying to impact.

Has nothing to do with anybody else. It's just me owning me owning my truth. And I've found that the more I own my truth, the more it gives others permission to live theirs.

Yeah, man. And you got a billion people out there waiting for you. A lot less than that. Now. I know you've been doing.

Now that you've been on this podcast, it's way less, you know?

Yeah, it's probably like close to like 200 million now.

There you go, bro. And we're all serving this in this group, man.

But yeah, and Brad Lee told me he only had 16 people on the planet not listening to his after that one dropped a couple of weeks ago. And now, you guys, it's guaranteed, right? We got it. Seven billion by now.

Scooped up the rest of the. Well, hey, man, I want to obviously respect time. It's family time for all of us right now. But tell us a little bit about the who stories, because I know it's a new thing for you and let us know how we can lay our eyes on this bad boy.

Yeah. So I will be giving you. We'll just do it on this show because by the time this drops. It will be public. The landing page actually just launched. Go to who before what dot com.

It'll tell you a little bit all about who stories is. And I'm gonna let that do the speaking because I frankly won't do it justice. So go to whobeforewhat.com. that's this who story thing. But, man, we're gonna be changing the landscape of actually telling the who stories behind the who's in the world. That's the simple way I'll describe it.

I love it. It's enough, man. That's a nice little. Little rabbit hole there. We'll go down. I know. You know, brianbogart.com you have some cool videos and I think they're a little older. You were telling me. But, man, I've watched a few of those, you know, one with your son and camping, I was like, man, that was so damn cool. And yeah, you just put it all out there. And I think it's a lot of what people or what we have in our minds or what we think we want in our minds, but it's all possible. We got a lot of sleeping giants out there, man, and you're doing the work.

Well, I mean, you just said it. There's so much that's in our minds and so much in our bodies. And I genuinely believe that the root of all suffering. I say all. I say that pretty confidently. I really don't know, but I believe that the root of a lot of suffering, right, is what's left unsaid. What people don't feel they have the permission to feel or say or what they don't have the words to say.

Think about that. Whether you're in business, relationship, health, or life. You just said it. It's like, we know these things, but we don't allow ourselves to live them and feel them and communicate them.

We're so afraid of what's on the other side of what. What happens when those words enter our mouth or exit our mouth. Right? And so when we sit here and we think about that, it's like that.

Yeah, man, that's the path.

That's the work. And that's the work. It's. It's. It's interesting work and it's kind of fun, actually. When you get there, it's hard as shit. I know that, man. But thanks for leading the charge and making it a little bit more clear for all of us, dude. So let's do round two soon.

Yeah, man, thanks for building the platform to let me pour some good into the world. You know, like I said before, we want to impact a billion lives. We're aware that 99.9999-999-9999% will never pay us a dollar. Right. And we're very okay with that because we know that those that are going to lean and invest in themselves are going to substantiate all the resources we need to perpetuate that impact. So thank you for commenting on the content that's out there. You know, you'll see the majority of our content, we don't have, like, funnels and clicks and go to our website to download this. I mean, do we have certain things like that in our business? Of course we do. Right. But the majority of the. Of the content that we create is just genuinely there to elevate and empower the world. So if you don't mind, I just want to ask anybody who's listening if anything resonates with you, if anything moves you. I'm not talking about you. Just go. And you're like, oh, that's cool. I'm talking like, does it move you? Right. I just ask that you, like, comment, share. This isn't for, like, vanity metrics, right. This is genuinely. Because it allows more eyeballs to see it. Right. And what I know definitively is that moved people move people. So all I'm asking you is if you feel moved, pass that on and move someone else, because that's the only way we get to a billion is collectively. So let's go get some collective impact. I'm asking for your help.

All ships rise together, brother. Yeah. How can folks follow you around, too?

So because they're Brian on all social media platforms, you know, Brian Bogart dot com. They can find us and connect with us. And funny enough, I'm actually. You guys are gonna be the first show. I'm gonna do this. I gotta give it to you guys. This is. This is new. I gotta look. Hold on. You can now text me as well.

Oh, dang.

Ready?

Let's do it.

602 700-45189. We just got that in place literally this week. And we're super excited about that because we've been having a lot of requests because I am not the greatest communicator on other platforms, but text. I am. Very good. So now we've got a dedicated line right to me. That's awesome.

Thanks for doing that, my man. And thanks for sharing. Appreciate you so much, brother. We'll talk again very soon. Yeah. All right.

Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

Oh, man. That was a mind boggler. Was it? Expander. We're recording this a day after we are.

That's why we're wearing different clothes, we're looking different.

And we've let Brian's perspectives marinate into our mind overnight.

Yes, that's exactly what happened. It wasn't because we got way, way, way too busy yesterday at all.

Well, it's just the end of the day.

It was the end of the day.

We're family, guys. I wanted to get home.

Yeah, he did.

I did. You did. You didn't.

I went home. Probably an hour after you went home.

You're a little later.

Of a family guy. Yeah, it's true, dad. Dude, Brian. So he is obviously a wealth of perspectives. And that was. I don't know, that was just wild. Everything that we've always heard from Brian, you know. And again, shout out to Chris, Ross and George for making these connections and George, the reconnection.

Yeah.

I'm so happy that we had him on. And we're going to do a round two.

We will. Yeah.

I mean, I have so much more.

I legitimately took a bunch of notes of, like, directions I wanted to go as he was talking, and we didn't even get to most of them. So we'll definitely do a round two. He's also got a really, really fascinating story. He teased at it. He mentioned that he basically doesn't have a tricep in one arm and he's.

You know, don't give it away, man.

But I'm not going to tell. I'm not telling the story of how it happened. He just kind of teased at it. He opened the loop. So make sure that when we do a round two, you listen to find out that whole story.

It's worth the wait. Obviously you can go check it out what his story is, but he's also.

Been on 250something podcasts, so the story's pretty hard.

Pretty easy to find if you want to. But yeah, man. So he's. He's just got so much crazy experiences he went through that happened to him. But obviously he's. He's far past that. I mean, he's taking the power from within rather than the whole external stuff to basically shape who he is. And I think that's just so damn cool.

Yeah.

And so couple shout outs. So obviously we took notes for you. Action guides. Get them at the flowchart group. Not the flowchart group. It's just flowchart group dot com.

I wonder if the flowchart group is Taken. Because maybe.

Do we really have it?

Why not? I mean, it's 10 bucks more domains.

Yeah. So flowchartgroup.com maybe the T H E in the beginning is working, but probably not. Probably not. So go join that plug in your email address. Within two weeks, you'll get the notes for free. You'll also join our Facebook group and hang out with us there.

Yes.

And the cool peeps that listen to the show right along with you.

Yeah. You know what I really like about Brian?

What do you like about him?

I really like that he could kind of riff on any topic that was thrown at him. When we first started the show, we had no intention of talking with him about, like, podcasting and, like, the sort of direction podcasting is going. But, like, he riffed on podcasting for, like, the first 15 minutes of it. And, like, we probably learned some, like, really interesting stuff that we didn't even know about podcasting. And we've been in this world for, like, a long time now.

He hit it hard, though. And we've never guessed on 250 shows.

Maybe. Maybe, like, cumulatively, but not in a year.

I mean, yeah, with that kind of. And I like what he said, where it refines your message, really. You're putting in the reps. It's just like anything else. And he's a speaker, so of course he had, I'm sure, a lot of reps in already. But, I mean, you even threw out the stats from near IL on Noah Kagan's podcast, how podcasts move the needle, at least in terms of book sales. Not like Brian was selling a book or anything here. He should, though. Brian, a book is in you. I'm sure you've been told that many times. But, yeah, I mean, the podcast insights were great, so those will definitely be in the news. But also, I like the perspective of, you know, when we brought up the whole, like, mindset versus tactics conversation, we talked about the survey. We surveyed our folks a year ago or so, but his perspective of how, you know, it's actually not so black and white like that. There's layers to all that. And then it's also depending on your personalities and if you're a thinker or a feeler, you know, and how those show up.

Yeah, there was some. I think there was some validation there of, like, what we kind of did after the survey. Right. We took the survey, and half the people said, I want to hear more mindset, but less tactics. And half the people said, I want more tactics but less mindset.

Right.

And so the way we took that was we decided to just continue to give both.

Yeah.

Well, it's obviously, it seems to be working out. We've been getting great feedback on alt. We've been doing a lot of more mindset, I guess, if you put a label on it. But there's so many like all the episodes lately. But there's obviously strategies and tactics to alt this stuff.

Yeah. Well, the Armin Morin one, which I guess will be coming out, I would have. It should have been out by the time this one came out. That one's actually an ultra tactical episode.

Yeah.

But it was. But yeah, most of the ones that we've been doing with guests lately have been much more on that like mental game side.

Yeah.

And. And I think that's probably the more valuable stuff. But I also think there's definitely a place and I, and I really enjoy getting both of them into the show. I think, I think, I think a good, well rounded business person, a good, well rounded entrepreneur, intrapreneur, whatever you want to call it, they have both. They have certain tactics that work for them and they also have the, you know, the mental, philosophical.

Strategic, bigger picture. I'm running out of synonyms.

Synonyms. Yeah. I think it's perspective shifts. You know, it's good to have these different ways of, of it's deep thinking on certain topics. Like when we had Anthony Trucks on, he said the same thing. He's like, I'm a deep thinker, you know, and it's true, like there's a lot of. That's why I enjoy bringing these people on. And I think you've. You've been right along with us because for a long time it was a lot more tactical. Tactical. Tactical. But obviously there's so many freaking tactics within these types of conversations we're having with folks as well. It's cool. It's like more of a well balanced or harmonious way that we're presenting some of these topics.

Yeah.

It's kind of a blend of everything.

It's the hustle and the flowchart.

It's kind of. This is what we do. Right. I like the other thing about. He brought up about triggers. I asked him about triggers because he was talking a lot about the whole the thinker and the feeler. I definitely gravitate more feeling like naturally and you're more thinking naturally. But obviously there's a blend in. And I think the beauty within this conversation with Brian is that we're able to kind of notice some of these things where it might not Be so natural.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's, like. There's definitely, like, a spectrum there where if you put, like, feeler on one end and thinker on the other end, I think everybody kind of lands somewhere in that spectrum. And I'm definitely closer on the thinker side. You're definitely closer on the feeler. But we're both probably, realistically in the middle.

Well, we're. But I feel like we're coming closer, and I think that's the practice we've been in lately and chatting with guys like. Like Brian and just everyone else that we've had on here is showing how we can kind of jive and flow more. So even though the way that we naturally show up are maybe separate from each other and then they're not. But, yeah, spectrum. That's why I was curious about the whole triggers thing. So I was like, okay, so there's obviously have been triggers between us. There's triggers with me and my wife because we show up differently. She's more of the thinker also feel it too. But, you know, again, spectrum. But there's triggers that can pop up without us even realizing what the hell is going on. And we're blind to them until, like, something shitty pops up. Like an argument or. Yeah. A reaction from our side or like. Like you said about.

Or even somebody points them out sometimes. Like, sometimes you're so close to them that you don't even realize that you're being triggered until somebody goes, oh, here's what I think might have just triggered. You know.

Oh, that's the beauty of it. Like, if someone actually. If you trust them or if they trust you, that you're not gonna, like, punch him in the face. You're like, hey, you know? But like. Yeah, in a trusted space, it's. It's so damn enlightening to figure out, like, oh, wait, hold on. Those are my triggers. And this is why. And you start to, like, build a kind of a story around.

That's why I don't point out Joe's triggers, because he usually punches me in the face.

He wears a lot of makeup for a reason. He typically has two black eyes. Right now it's one. But he has really good makeup.

This beard.

Yeah. Not real. No. Wow. I choose my punching lower on the.

Lower quadrant of his face, the jaw, because you can't see the bruises.

This is why we call Matt the beard for so many years, actually.

It's.

Yeah, it's about the time we've been working together. Right around, like, a little closer. The beard showed up. And the punching has ensued ever since. So it's. I'm sorry, Matt. I'm not really sorry. You have a fine looking beard.

Yeah.

You've been complimented so many times. You deserve an extra. No, I'm just kidding you.

Don't.

Don't be jealous. I love you.

Don't be jealous.

What's another thing? What's like a final idea or thought that popped up from this conversation or maybe a shift that you had?

You know, we did talk a little bit about imposter syndrome and I sort of, I think I articulated my thoughts on imposter syndrome. I feel like I don't get the imposter syndrome as much from like, ooh, I don't deserve to be talking to this guest. But I do sometimes get the imposter syndrome around specific topics or tangents on the show. Right. Like if somebody is talking a lot of like the mental game, the.

You.

Know, when it starts to get more metaphysical, when it starts to get a little more on the woo woo end, stuff like that. That's like my brain is such. On like a logic wavelength that stuff that to me kind of defies logic. I struggle to interject myself into those conversations. And so I thought our sort of riff on those ideas was interesting because I was sort of learning stuff about myself as I was saying it out loud. I think you and I have both kind of gotten better at this on the podcast of just like stream of thought. Let what's in our minds out. Right. Like I've sort of let down the guard and the sort of filters and just let it, whatever flows now. And I think that's a good thing. But, but at the same time, I'm still very self conscious often about like, ooh, I don't know if I can add to this conversation. And I think me just kind of talking that out with Brian was really beneficial to me.

Yeah, man. What do you think came with that? Is it more of like a freedom to just like kind of say something?

Well, I think his reaction to my statement. Right, so what did he say? Remind me. So I basically said that and he was like, you know what, you are way ahead of the game because you're way more self aware than others. Most people don't even realize that that's happening. You actually notice that that's happening and can actually articulate to others what's going on in your brain. Most people don't have that. And when he said that to me, that sort of freed my mind to go, well, I should just do that more Often just like whatever's spinning in my brain, just let it out. And, you know, don't worry what they're gonna think because their reaction is probably gonna be similar. They're probably. It's probably gonna come across better in the actual conversation than it is me pre gaming it in my mind.

Yeah. You know, I like that. Yeah. And that's. I think that's kind of like what his whole mission is too, is. Is awaking the giant. You know, not within, because that's Tony Roth, but, you know, like the sleeping. What do you. Yeah, the sleeping giant in every human. And that's. Whoa. Sometimes, like, I think that could be sleeping in you, you know, is like a really cool freaking perspective. No, like in these scenarios. But think about it, because you even said it on the podcast is like, sometimes you'll be quiet. You're like, oh, Joe, we'll just do the work on this one. Yeah. Because, like. But then when you say something, I'm like, shit, that was really cool. And you said that really well. And I never thought of that. But yeah, it takes maybe the gears a little bit more for, you know, like, you're putting the pieces together, I guess, in your mind. But even then, it's just like, usually, I don't know, that's the thing. And it's not about all you, but I'm so interested here. Yeah, but like, you're so damn deep too, on all this stuff.

That's because I feel like the reverse happens as well. And, I mean, you could correct me if I'm wrong, the mental cures that are turning in your brain might be totally different. But I know when we have more tactical episodes, if we're going down Facebook ads or something, you're rarely, if ever, in the Facebook ad platform. So we might be talking about numbers and areas of the platform and stuff like that that you haven't even experienced. So you're gonna tend to step back and go, okay, Matt's got this one.

I look at more in those conversations. My brain's searching for meaning behind it or trying to clarify some of these things and how that fits into the bigger picture. Yeah, yeah, that's like, where my head goes in those kind of things because, yeah, I can't. I can't run with the metrics and all that stuff, nor do I really want to. But, yeah, it's interesting how that shows up.

Yeah.

But I like it, man. So, yeah, good stuff, I think. Great stuff. I mean, there was a lot there.

We're have a round two so that we'll be talking about Brian again in the future, so let's leave it there for now. I do have one request if you are listening to this. Actually, I have multiple request. I just lied, but I'm starting off with one. If you're listening to this on the audio version and you haven't subscribed on YouTube, go to Hustle and Flowchart TV. We are putting a ton of focus into the video aspects of our podcast and we're going to be starting to do a lot more behind the scenes footage. And we've got some really cool things coming up around Traffic and Conversion Summit where, you know, if you're subscribed to the YouTube channel, you can win money and other cool stuff. So make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel at Hustle and Flowchart to and we will make it worth everybody's while, both in the form of content and possibly even bigger rewards.

Yes.

So definitely go to TNC Traffic Conversion Summit in San Diego. I hope it continues on. So we'll be there in many tons of ways. We got a lot of stuff going on. So find us. Go, reach out, subscribe. Definitely.

If you're at tnc, you'll be able to find us. I'll just tell you that much.

We're going to make our faces.

We'll be around. You'll be old.

Yeah. Matt's beard will be thicker than ever. Yeah.

Or yeah.

We get in a. We're known to get in boxing rings at.

See, now you're putting pressure. I gotta go buy a longer beard now.

Buy a longer.

Wow.

Yeah, you don't have that much time.

To grow that much.

I already told you this wasn't real. This is just fake to hide punches.

We'll go on Etsy later. So get the notes. Obviously, flowchartgroup.com also wanted to shout out a couple things for Brian. So Brian Bogert, go check that out. That's his main site. There's a ton of cool videos with him. But also he has this new project that should be live called who before what dot com. And they're like the who stories he was talking about behind some amazing people. I have not seen any of these, but I would like to.

Yeah.

All right. What else? And we got. Yeah, we just got a cool intro.

He shouted out a phone number. You want me to shout out the phone number again? He said, text this number. I actually don't know what happens with text this number. Should we? But the number is 6027-045189-60270-45189 Brian said if you text him, he'll respond to text. So let's.

I'm gonna send him a little thank you message after this to that number and you guys should as well. That guy is hustling and hard, man.

Yeah, send him a text. Send that number a text saying, I heard you on Hustle and Flowchart and I loved it. Or I hated it. Preferably you loved it. I'm a assuming everybody loved it. If you made it this far, I hope you did.

So phone number one more time because Brian would love to hear you. And to be honest, there's no reason why you wouldn't want to reach out to this guy. He's just going to give you more goodness in your life. So. 602-704-5189 and if you're watching this on.

YouTube, I'm sure Jacob probably put that on the screen at the bottom or something.

Thank you, Jacob.

Yeah, it should say something like, operators are standing by, but.

But no, I like that. Yeah, the phones are off the hook. Melting down. All right, so let's wrap this puppy up. Easy Webinar. Easy Webinar.

That's a new word. They're always supporting us, at least as of now, so we love those guys. Easywebinar.com hustle they're hooking you up with a fat discount of their software. I mean, this software is robust. They've been doing this thing for a long time. And they are the number one platform of everything. Webinars.

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Easywebinar.com hustle easywebinar.com hustle Check out Pod Hacker. We like to shamelessly plug our own offers because we don't do that enough. But if you want to know all the bits and bobs of everything that we do in our podcast, but also so business, because not just podcasts, go check it out. Hustle and float. Jesus. Podhacker.com podhacker. That's the place. That's the place to be. And leave us a review. Tell your friends, tell your family, tell your dog. We'd like to hear from everyone.

We'll give you a checklist of all the things you need to do after this episode.

I know, we should put these in the news.

Here's your checklist. Here's your post listening checklist of all the things you need to go do.

We just, I think there were like many years of this podcast where we never plugged anything because we now we're overcompensating. We didn't like to share our own stuff that came out in this episode with Brian, by the way.

That is true.

So now we're just sharing everything. So if you're like, if you're over this, just. Just cut it off now. But, you know, help us out somewhere because, you know, I think we're helping you out too. Yeah.

So love you.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.

Have a good one. Later.

Thanks, everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just to listen. Listen to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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