C.J. Martin - Building A Standout Brand In A Crowded Market

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float, Shark with your boy. My boy, Matt Wolf.

Joe. Hey.

Buenos tardes.

Dude. I didn't know we were gonna record this on the toilet.

No, I'm. I'm doing my. I just did a pr.

Not a bm.

Bench pressed. Bench pressed. My. The size of my car. I don't know. I can't really bench that.

This went off the rails quick.

Oh, come on. Talking to a fitness man.

Yeah, I know where you're going with this.

I don't make that grunting sound, though, when I lift up.

You don't?

I mean, not like that. That. Not like that.

That was me lifting my computer.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, Yeah.

I make that sound for lifting anything.

Lifting anything.

Piece of paper.

It's really kind of distracting when we're working in the same office.

Well, you know, I mean, if you want me to do my best work, Matt, you just gotta live with what comes.

I just gotta live with the.

Hmm. All right, I'll stop now.

All right. Today's guest is the founder, the creator, the owner of probably the largest CrossFit brand, like, in the country, at least. Right.

It's very large, and maybe. So I would say he is. It's a premier facilitate. They're basically. I think they're the most recognized, the most recogn.

That's kind of what I was trying to get to. The most recognizable brand in CrossFit.

There you go. So, yeah, Invictus. So CJ Martin is who we're talking to today, is the founder of Invictus Fitness. And they're based out of San Diego, but they have online courses and training and stuff like that. But if you're into CrossFit, because that's, like, the core fitness style that they have over there. If you ever watch the CrossFit games or anything like that, you'll see a lot of their athletes there, which is really cool. It's impressive. I mean, I think you said the last 11 consecutive years they've had teams there basically ever since they've done team games in CrossFit, they've had a presence there.

Yeah, I don't really totally know how CrossFit games work. It's probably a question I should have asked on the recording, but I know a little. You probably know enough. So the CrossFit games, it's not like you can just apply and anybody who wants to be in it can be in it.

Right.

This is like the most elite athletes doing CrossFit. Right. This is like the.

There's, like, there's like a. There's a qualification. There's a ton of qualifications. They have to go through different events, and it's tough.

So there's all sorts of, like, tournaments and other events and things that happen that you got to make it past that one, make it past that one, make it that. That one. And then this sort of, like, super bowl, it all culminates in this CrossFit game.

That's what it is. Yeah. Right. And there's an individual part and there's a team part.

And so Invictus, CrossFit, they've actually had years where 30 of their people went in one year.

Right.

I'm looking. They've coached more than 60 individual CrossFit game athletes and 20 CrossFit game teams.

Okay.

So he might have mentioned something at any one, but I know I'm probably.

Getting my wires crossed with all the numbers, but that's a lot. Basically, the people that come out of this gym, he sends the most.

Yeah. And what's really cool is in this interview again, this is our first time we ever chatted with CJ and I've done CrossFit. Great friends Ryan and Stina, who own a gym locally called Uprise. Right now, we got to give a.

Shout out to Josh Tsai, too.

Josh Tsai. He actually. Josh Tsai gave us one of the questions that we should ask CJ today. And what up, Josh? He's out protecting LA from forest fires and whatnot, so that's very nice of him.

I don't think he deals with forest fires. I think that's Cal fire.

He's done. He's done.

He works for the LA Fire department.

I know he does fire stuff. I've seen video.

Yeah, but he's gonna give you crap when he hears this and says that you have. Fighting forest fires.

He's. He's done big fires. I don't know.

Oh, I guess he does work with forest fires sometimes, because I've seen videos of him out working on forest fires.

Exactly.

Sorry, Josh.

All right, so. God, he's trying to take credit away from you, Josh. That's. How rude. No, but going back to Invictus and cj, I believe Josh actually has. Has done some workshops at Invictus, like, numerous years. So there's that connection there. So there you go, cj. We wrapped it all up for you. You have a alum over there, but. Yeah, no cj. So back to the whole athlete thing that you were saying. It's interesting because I think a lot of folks know of invictus because they see them a lot in media and whatnot like that. And on shirts and on shirts now. Yeah, but CJ said, like, that's not a. That's never been a focus of the Invictus brand culture. You know, they're just what they do in the gym. He's more of a human. Like, he's getting to the core of, like, the wants and needs of people and instilling really good exercises and routines and stuff like that to make him a better person. And I. He's doing a damn good job because it seems like he's, you know, the best of the best come out of that crew. And of course, you know, people.

Now that I know a little bit more about CrossFit, some of the conversations we had on the show make more sense.

I'm happy we, like, aired that in recording. So everybody learned along with you learning.

Yeah. So. But in this episode, if you think it's an episode where we're just talking about fitness and CrossFit and why CrossFit's the best, that's not what we're.

You're right.

We're actually.

Oh, you're wrong.

No, we're actually talking about how he managed to build such a successful brand with Invictus, how he grew his CrossFit gym while other gyms have actually been sort of declining and struggling lately. But his is still, you know, very, very. It's doing very well. We talked about the mindset, things that he instills in his athlet. Athletes at Company, because it's all just as applicable to entrepreneurs. Right.

Like, everything is.

The sort of mental toughness that it requires to be an elite athlete is. There's a lot of the same mental toughness that's required to be an elite entrepreneur.

Totally. And that's why we really wanted to bring CJ on. Is anyone who's working at an elite level and who trains and, you know, fosters and creates elite people, that's someone that we want to talk to on this show because there's definitely qualities that anyone can take from them. Doesn't matter if you're an athlete, business person or whoever, you know, like, there's a lot of these. These perseverance type qualities that you'll hear C.J. talk about, like where he almost went under back in 2016, and, you know, he got pretty vulnerable and telling his story, and it's awesome. And, you know, we can take that. And it all comes back to the mindset. It's this, you know, it's this push to success and not giving up. And that's what you'll hear a lot in this episode. And, I mean, from my personal experience doing this kind of work, it doesn't matter if it's CrossFit or Jiu Jitsu or whatever consistently. But if you're challenging yourself a lot, that's what I like. Like I mentioned in this episode, it's kind of like golf a little bit. Like, you're not really competing against anyone unless you're, like, in a tournament. But typically, it's just you.

Right.

And look at business like your daily, your to do list, your inbox, and all your priorities. Like, you're just battling yourself and your attention and trying to not be distracted. Shout out to near IO about indistractable. But, like, that's. That's how I feel. Like CrossFit and all that stuff has benefited me.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah.

I mean, I've never done CrossFit. I'm obviously getting a CrossFit lesson during this conversation here and also on the podcast itself.

Yeah.

But, you know.

I think having a discipline of, like, anything that you. You were just disciplined at it. You keep going back. No matter how hard it gets, how, you know, how. How much you don't want to, you. You just do the work. You keep coming back. I think any sort of, you know, having something like that in your life is very, very important because a lot of the mental toughness and the mental things that. That instills trickles into the other aspects of your life.

Everything. Yeah. It's all connected.

Yeah.

And that's what's really cool. And. Yeah. I don't know. We talk a lot of. Yeah, it just goes all over the place.

I also learned what Invictus means, too.

From the poem from Henley. Yes. Yeah. I was not familiar. I've heard that. The poem before. I didn't know it was the Invictus poem, though, so I want to look it up, actually. Yeah, I cannot recite it right now because I don't remember, but we'll let him do it.

Yeah, he does it in the episode.

He does it perfectly. Yeah. But the core thing is.

Get the notes.

Get the notes.

It will be in the notes.

All right. Sue, can you make sure that's in the notes, please? Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

All right, so, yeah, we'll stop blabbering now. Get the notes. Yeah. Well, that was good.

Jinx. Owe me a Coke. All right. So you could text the word comp to 38470 comp.

Oh, Joe, thank you. Okay, now I could talk.

That's how it works, right? If I say your name, then you're allowed to talk?

I think so, yeah. Sorry. I was jinxed, so I couldn't say anything.

Yeah. So text the word comp to 38470 and we'll shoot you the notes.

That was good. I haven't done jinx in a long time. Since elementary school. We remember the rules. Good job. That's good.

That's good.

So, yeah, get them notes. Where we're always talking about how we take notes of every single episode. So just take advantage of us. Get them notes. They're free, but be quick. Only two weeks in, you'll get these notes. After two weeks, they go away and you get other notes for free. But, you know, there's a cool little Epic membership that's like next to nothing, cost wise, that you could just get everything.

Yeah.

And not have to worry about time. So to get Those notes, text. Com 38470-384-4470 comp 38470, comp. Cool. So.

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Comp, comp, comp. All right.

This has been one of the weirdest intros I think we've ever done.

It can get weirder. All right, let's stop.

Let's stop.

We'll save that for off air. Hey, cj. Welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, man, it's. This is actually pretty sweet because, you know, we're all from San Diego, and I've done some CrossFit for quite a bit now. And, you know, we've watched the games a ton, and you guys are everywhere. The Invictus brand.

Yeah, we've been blessed with some really great athletes.

You have? Well, yeah, you're blessed. But, you know, there's obviously. I'm sure there's a big old story, systems and processes that are happening that are maybe unseen by most, you know?

Yeah. There's definitely some secrets to it.

Hopefully you can share a little bit here.

We'll spill some of them today.

Yes, thank you, sir. Yeah, it's interesting because we got connected from Eric Berman. We had him on the show recently of Branditize, another San Diego agency. And we go to his mastermind. So he always brings. He only works with just interesting companies, interesting people doing great things. So when he was like, hey, you want to talk to CJ we're like, huh.

Of course. So I always wanted to say how we got connected, but let's. You have an interesting background too, because you started in law, at least as far as we know.

Somewhat atypical background, I guess, for a coach and gym owner.

Right. Well, give us, let's go back in time a little bit to kind of walk us up into speed of where, you know, how invictus came to be and you know, what kind of kickstarted all this stuff for you.

Yeah, awesome. I'm going to take you way back to like seventh grade when we had a project that said, what do you want to do with your life when you get older? I grew up in martial arts and I was so clear on my vision in the seventh grade I was like, I'm going to open a taekwondo studio and I'm going to pick up kids after school in a band and then we'll take, I will teach from taekwondo and that parents can pick them up and I'll teach adults in seventh grade. That clarity was awesome. And then life happens. You go to college and then you think, oh, I gotta get this big boy job and I gotta make money, I gotta support a family. And so I went to law school and did all the things, graded onto law review and got the big firm job and really enjoyed practicing. I practiced securities litigation for five years at a large international law firm and.

Finally at some point had to step back and say like, okay, well this is where I am and how does it align with my core values and the things that I wanted to accomplish in my lifetime and kind of realized that the seventh grade me was way smarter than the 20 something, late 20s version of myself.

You had the intuition, man. Yeah, it's like kids and they got that.

Well, that's, I mean, so really it was kind of stripping back and figuring out, hey, what's important here? Because, you know, I made a great living as a very successful young lawyer.

And I just kind of realized that like my lifelong impact was not going to be there. You know, I wasn't sure that I wanted written on my tombstone, successfully defended lots of Fortune 500 companies.

So then for me it was just kind of really assessing.

How I wanted to live and I wanted to make real tangible impact in others lives and help shape my community. And I was, you know, I just gotten myself out of being, you know, I was a lifelong athlete and, you know, very involved in martial arts and boxing and played baseball in college and then kind of got out of law school and started working at a law firm and realized that I had no idea why I worked out if it weren't for sport and performance. I was never like, you know, bicep curls in the gym kind of meathead guy. I was always, like, sprinting, jumping, plyometric, something that would make me better at whatever it was that I wanted to do.

And so I stumbled into CrossFit. This was early on, when it was still relatively unknown.

And just realized, wow, this answers so many questions for me. And then got really passionate about the changes that it could help people make, and not just physically inside the gym, but really more specifically in how you can help shape somebody's character and help them forge a little more resilience by. By certain training methods.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm curious what that transition looked like from lawyer to starting a gym, because I imagine, you know, you've got a pretty stable income. You kind of know it's coming in, there's some comfort, some stability there. And then you decide, okay, I'm going to go start my own business. Which is like the opposite of stability in the early days, you know, like, how did you save up a bunch of money and then go and do it? Did you get investors? How did that transition look?

Yeah, great question.

One thing that I'm always careful to mention, because in the years since making the transition, I've had some very eager, ambitious people say, I'm going to quit my job and do this whatever. And I'm like, no, don't do it, because you have to still make sure that there's a viable path for you. Right? And passion is awesome, but you got to have some, you know, realism as well. And so I actually did my. My full transition. To go a little deeper into the story was I was. I was essentially running a different gym, one that I was a member at, and the owners had moved away. And I said, well, heck, give me the keys. Like, I'll kind of, you know, take over. And so I ended up essentially running this gym for about 18 months. And so my schedule was to wake up around 5, open the gym at 5:30am, coach until about 8:00am, go to the law firm, work until 5:45, race across town, coach from 6 to 8pm.

Eat some dinner, and then go back to the law firm and work until 1 or 2, and then do it all again. And so after about 18 months living on 4 hours or less of sleep, it just got to a point where I'm like, if I'm willing to essentially kill myself for this and ruin my own health, then it's time to make a change. And so it was really during that whole process that I realized that this was something worth doing in my life. I did not have a bunch of financial wherewithal. I was very proud. I grew up very working class. And, you know, in our family, it was just, you know, the pride of making sure you support yourself. And so I would. I would even tell you that I had a negative connotation of accepting any sort of funding or loans. It was like, no, I'm doing. This is all me. Yeah, we were 100% self funded.

And we just started slow and we got, you know, we. We were lucky enough that timing was good and we did a great job with the members that were coming in. And so we happened to grow faster than expected. Um, but I was fully prepared to just, you know, eat top ramen for years.

Yeah, man. Well, it sounded like you had nice training wheels. By running the other gym for 18 months, you felt like. I'm sure you felt the pain of obviously working two things at once, you know, and not sleeping, but probably dipped your toes in enough to be like, all right, I can do this, you know.

Yeah, that's exactly right. As I had. I had my testing period. Right. That I knew that. I knew that it was more than just a fleeting thing. It was more than. Especially in our space, in the fitness space, there's a lot of people that love to work out and think, well, I'll open a gym. And it's like, wow, those are two really different things.

Sure. Yeah.

And so I had realized that this was about a lot more than working out. It was about how we could impact lives through teachings that we can make in the gym.

No, I think that's the hugest part. That's what I'm getting from this is you're big into the impact. And I know from personal experience doing CrossFit and just strength workouts now it's a little more individualized programming for me. But it's helped in so many aspects of my life to keep focus and stay true to my own plan and got a coach as accountability partner. And that just trickles into all areas of life in my business. It's really cool. So I could see you're doing a great thing. You know, bring in, how many members do you guys have or do you work with on a consistent basis?

Yeah, I mean, in San Diego, it might be, you know, closer to 800 members across facilities. And then, you know, we also have a very large online presence and we have, you know, several thousand that we're coaching through online subscriptions and individualized, you know, personal coaching online.

Yeah. So, I mean, that's freaking ripple effect across everywhere. You know, the fact that you made that decision to. In a lot of people. I'm just saying this because there's a lot of people listening that are probably like thinking about making a transition or they. They're just so hesitant. But there's this passion, that intuition that. That you had, but just took a while to kind of get to, and now it's making that impact, which is really cool to see.

Yeah, absolutely.

Now, from. From like a brand perspective, I have to imagine that Invictus is probably the most well known CrossFit brand. Just because, you know, you watch the CrossFit games and you're the most. The biggest representation of a gym at CrossFit Games is your gyms. So I'm curious, in the early days, how were you marketing yourself? How are you getting new. New people in the door to the gym? You know, because you obviously have amazing success now, but it was probably a bit of a grind to get there.

Yeah. So that's the thing that I've enjoyed the most is that in my life, I would say my greatest successes have been what I would call unintended consequences.

And not to go too far back, but I also started a nonprofit organization in Oregon called Kids Helping Kids that grew and is tremendously successful long since I left. And when you look at it, it's not that we set out one, we never set out with a goal of creating competitive teams. The sport hadn't even really arrived in terms of CrossFit at the time that we opened our gyms. We set out just to help people achieve whatever goals they had. Right. And so at the time that might have been, people came in and wanted to be able to run a 5k and weren't in shape. And so they were going to run two days a week and come work out with us three days a week. Or it was just to lose weight. And in the process of that, you know, we had a couple people that came in and said, man, I love this stuff. I'd love to compete at it. And so our job just, you know, was to help them do that. And the way we did that never changed. It was the same whether somebody was walking in and say, I want to lose £100 or I want to be a world champion. At the CrossFit Games, it was okay. We need to educate you with all the things it's going to take. We need to make sure that you have all the support in terms of equipment and, you know, kind of nutrition, coaches, whatever that's going to be. And then we need to make sure that there's somebody there to encourage you because you will hit an obstacle that you think you can't overcome in any pursuit, whether that's business training, anything. Like if you are setting decent goals, there will be significant periods of time where it doesn't appear that you're going to reach your goal. And so how do you get there? How do you get past that? And that's where, in my opinion, coaching gets fun. Right? Because that's where we're able to share lessons about resilience. It's where we have to get creative. It's where you see people that either give up or they find a new path and they make it work.

So those are all the kind of character things that, you know, we love coaching. And the sports side was just an interesting outgrowth, totally unintended. And what ended up happening was we had some really good success early on with athletes. More athletes kept coming in with similar goals. We were still able to help them. And so, you know, this is kind of spiral. We've now coached over 60 individual Games athletes. We've had a team at the CrossFit Games every year that they've had teams. Last year we had three out of the 14 teams competing for the world championship.

I remember watching that and being like, what the hell? How did they pull that off?

Right?

So.

It'S been really cool, but never part of our business plan. And to this day, I mean, we just finished our year end staff meeting talking about what we did well this year and our objectives for next year. And not once did we talk about a competitive athlete. It's not something that is our.

Focus. The focus is the individual who wants to be competitive and making sure that they're prepared to achieve their goals. Or it's the group of individuals for our teams. But there's not an overriding like, hey, we're going to go out and try to qualify for teams or anything like that. It's just simply we're going to help the people that want help. And if that path puts them to the CrossFit games, great.

Yeah, yeah, you're definitely, it sounds like you get to like the human, the core human level. You figure out what are like limiting beliefs that won't allow someone to not only complete a workout but to stick with training on a consistent schedule. You know, I know that's tough for a lot of people. And what are some of The. Because I know you're big on mindset. What are some of the core things that you try to instill in all of the folks that you train in terms of mindset, limiting beliefs and kind of coping with a lot of the tough times of working out and just sticking to something that might not feel so good in the moment?

Yeah. I think one, as a starting point, it's clearly identifying the purpose and the intention of the training. Right. And so, you know, when. When we look at people's purpose.

You can see people that are really talented if they're trying to, say, compete at a competitive level, level, but don't really know why they want to do it. Right. Or they're coming in because they're like, oh, I can. If I'm good at this, my Instagram following will grow and I'll get sponsorships. Right. Like, that guy will never make it in this sport because the sport of fitness is effort based. It's not, you know, it's not highly skill based. And the one thing you know is that that person that doesn't have an innate drive that is just aiming for some external measure of success, the minute things get really hard, they will quit.

Right.

And, like, I've seen that now for, you know, more than a dozen years in competition, CrossFit, and you see people that are way more talented but don't have that. That inner drive. And then, you know, you get blessed to work with some athletes like Kristen Hota, who I've worked with for six years. And, you know, this is a woman that is so clear on what she's doing and why she's doing it, and, you know, that is just obsessed with being her best. Right. And it so happened that her best was good for second place in the world last year to another, you know, really phenomenal athlete, Tia, who took first.

Right.

You know, but, you know, that's not the goal. It's not the stated goal. We're not talking about, like, oh, how can I beat Tia? Tia's great. She doesn't care about Tia. She's trying to figure out, how can Kristen Holter be the best athlete that Kristen's capable of being? Hmm.

Yeah. How? And how would you. How would you coach someone through that purpose or that drive, that inner drive, if they're not. Maybe if they're a little murky and they kind of have an idea, but you could tell it's not like it's not coming out in their actions. Are there some things that you do?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think one thing is establishing just on intake, understanding the tone of what we're trying to do, and the tone of the relationship. And so one of the things I did very early on was when we would have athletes reach out and say, okay, I want to make it to the CrossFit games, right? Normally, that's what. When somebody's telling you their goal, they're picking something that's very tangible, and they may not even be clear on why they want it. And so one of the things I did with them very early on, all these athletes on intake was we would talk about. I would ask them their five kind of core values, priorities, and then we would go through their daily schedule. Like, literally just write down what time you wake up, what do you eat in the morning, where do you go, stuff like that. And then we would look at that, and then I would ask them to reflect on their core values and then rewrite their schedule in a way that would better reflect their priorities.

And what you would find is, like, and I wasn't doing it to be a jerk, but, like.

I did not want athletes training three hours a day if they were telling me that they had a job, kids and a wife and.

Their spouse, kids and job, in that order, were their top three priorities, because they weren't ever going to achieve what they actually wanted to achieve. And so we would use that as a basis just to get real clear. And those people that did have time to train multiple times a day, then, of course, we would slot that in based on their priorities. And those people that did not have the time, we would say, okay, so what do you have? You've got 60 minutes. So now let's make the most of those 60 minutes. And, you know, like, one athlete in particular, Val V. Overall, I mean, her total training time in a week was probably, you know, equivalent to what some of our other athletes was in a day to two days.

And yet she took. In the four years we worked together, she took fifth, third, fifth, and third. And she just did it in a way that aligned with her priorities and in a way that could be sustainable instead of, you know, banging her head against the wall, getting frustrated because she felt like she was a failure in other aspects of her life, and then quitting the sport, which, you know, isn't a desirable outcome for her.

Yeah, no, I could see that. Perfect. Like, as a good intake, and this is perfect for business, too. You're gonna get a happier client, you're gonna get better results. You're gonna have them stick around a lot longer. And I bet a Lot of those limiting beliefs that could pop up probably are a lot more quiet, or they're more confident in themselves because they've aligned the core values to the actions they're gonna take on a daily or weekly basis.

And I think when it comes to business.

I've been through some different cycles of business myself, and I' some friends and helped some people along the way. And it's like, it's really. It's tempting to grow just because you can grow. And if you're not checking in with your core values and priorities, you can get pretty far down the line and realize, wait, I didn't even want to do this.

Been there. Yeah, we definitely. I mean, Matt and I, Yeah, I feel like we always do a constant assessment of that. It's like we have a pretty good shared vision all the time, but it's very simple to muddy the waters with opportunities or I want to grow. And then it's like a business model that doesn't align with what we want to do.

Yeah, absolutely. We see that with athletes all the time. Right. Is that.

The gym? Look, don't get me wrong. Professional athletes, their workouts are going to be their obsession, and that's fine. That's their career. But 99% of the people that we deal with, they want their fitness to supplement their life. If I've got somebody wasting two and a half hours in the gym each day, we probably have to have a discussion on, like, hey, how does this align? But people get addicted to success, and so the minute that they're succeeding in the gym, the answer is more and more and more, we see the same thing.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's a. It's a good mixture of. Of. Yeah, the values, I think, starting with why is just massive.

Yeah, yeah. One of the things. So when we. When we do this show, one of the things we do is we do a. Like, you know, we. We Google Invictus and CJ and everything we can. And one of the things that kept popping up over and over and over again every time I would Google any of these terms was the Invictus mindset. Like, the term, the Invictus mindset just kept popping up over and over again. Do you think maybe you can give us sort of an overview of what the Invictus mindset is?

Yeah, absolutely. So one. I mean, the gym name in and of itself, obviously, was inspired by the poem by William Ernest Henley, which ends with, I'm the master of my fate. I'm the captain of my soul. And it's an extremely Powerful poem for me, it evokes this sense of, you know, that you can be absolutely unconquerable. Right. Which is the translation of Invictus. And it was taught to me by my grandfather, who was a World War II Marine. And they had some just horrible landings. He was in South Pacific Marine Infantry, 4th Division. And they took just massive losses. And they would have to land on these small islands where, you know, enemies were dug in and just picking them off from these boats. And they would recite this poem as they would go into landings. And I thought that was really interesting. And then growing up as a fighter in martial arts and boxing, you know, I would lean on stuff like that to kind of amp you up. And I'll be honest, I didn't know the whole genesis of the poem until much later. And then you realize that.

This wasn't some pump up speech before an event. Henley had actually been laying in a hospital bed for almost three years trying to save his remaining leg from tuberculosis of the bone. Wow. This is a manifesto not for walking into a bad situation. This was his manifesto when everything had gone wrong.

Yeah.

And it was him saying, you know, what external circumstances? Being with Ma, you'll never strip me of my character. You'll never strip me of my soul. And I think that's where the real power is, is that how can we convey that mindset of like, you'll never. You'll never be able to take away my inherent desire or my inherent fight for the things that are important to me in my life. And that's what I love about CrossFit, is that it's unlike almost any other sport from the sporting aspect of it. You know, I grew up fighting, and when I walk into a ring, I was really clear on my objective. My objective was to knock out the other guy before he could land a single punch on me.

Sure. Yeah.

CrossFit is different. Right. Because if you want to be successful, whether you're just training in the gym or, you know, if you're going out and competing, you don't like, you don't get the benefit of not being subjected to discomfort. In fact, the only way to win is to subject yourself to more discomfort than you feel like is probably reasonable.

Yeah.

And so when we start looking at that in terms of lessons, it's like how if we can teach people that resilience of looking at things that they should legitimately be afraid of, not afraid like it will do permanent damage, but afraid in terms of this is not going to be comfortable, and that then I still choose to do it if you can develop that habit. The crossover into every other aspect of your life is massively powerful.

Yeah.

And so that's the part that I still find fascinating to this day, is how can we help people adopt that mindset of, it doesn't matter how uncomfortable this is. It doesn't matter how many times I fail, I'm going to continue to be resilient. I'm going to continue to fight for this. And that's where I think we've had. When I say we're blessed to be surrounded by great athletes, we're blessed to be surrounded by incredible business owners, entrepreneurs, lawyers that are members of our community. And I think that that's the unintended consequence is that we've created this community of success and this mindset around you are capable, if you choose to be capable.

That's freaking awesome. Now I want to go look into that poem a lot more. Thanks for explaining that, too. And. And, yeah, I mean, I can only speak for myself, but I just know there is a massive turning point. And a lot of the things I feel like I lacked in, like, structure and efficiency and, you know, pushing myself in a, you know, in a new way every day. That's what CrossFit allows to do. Because it's almost like, obviously there's a competitive aspect where there's teams and stuff, but a lot of times it's almost like golf. You're, like, always trying to compete against yourself and do a little bit better, be a little bit more efficient. And I don't know, my mobility was jacked up when I first started, but it's like, guess what? Now my back pain's gone and I stand up more straighter and I can, I don't know, talk to, talk on different things. And there's a lot of benefits that trickle into, I know, for me, business and just life, like, just happiness. So with the mindset and the coaching like you guys, I could see why it's attracting the best of the best.

Yeah, no, it's. And the thing that I just love is, like, our gym communities.

They are so representative of so many different.

Demographics, but you see people thriving in all different aspects of life. And how exactly we kind of collect all these individuals and bring them into this community, I have no idea. But that's the magic that we just absolutely adore and are most fulfilled by.

Yeah. Well, when it comes to, like, culture and I know community, even keep talking a lot about that. You have an online and an off, you know, in person aspect to that. Like, what are some core things that folks listening can kind of instill in their own business or in their life that bring a sense of like a really good culture community that's, you know, pumped up and it's doing good for not only yourself, but the world. Cause you're doing like, you know, nonprofit stuff. Stuff. You extend the ripple effects pretty wide, it sounds like.

Yeah.

Like I said, we just wrapped up our year end meeting with our staff and at the end of the day.

I believe that our business is human connection.

When you think about that, you say, okay, we've been able to expand to serve tens, thousands of online clients. How does that really translate? And our process is still the same. And I think what's the differentiator for us is that if somebody is engaging with our online subscription platforms and.

They'Re posting results, they're asking questions, they always have a coach answering them back. And that is where we've put all of our time and resources is into creating.

A phenomenal coaching staff that cares more about people than they are used to being cared about. Most people, especially like on our online side, expect that if they pay a small fee for an online program, that they're just gonna get the program and nobody's gonna really track their benefits. So they get blown away when one of our coaches shoots them an email like, hey man, haven't seen you post for the last few days. How's everything going?

And I think that's a big difference. Obviously in our gym communities, it's even more personal and we're able to have a deeper connection with these people because we see them on a daily basis and if we don't, we're calling them and we're trying to figure out what's going on, how we can help. And if that just means writing some workouts while they travel, great. But if that means they're going through a hard time, it might just mean our coach is saying, hey, let's schedule a 10 minute coffee just to like catch up. Right. So I think it comes down to that, you know, making sure that your business is able to create human connection and serve the need, whatever it is that your clients are coming in to talk.

It's almost like the sort of accountability element is just baked into the culture. You know, that's obviously something that you don't get with like a 24 Hour Fitness or something, right? There's no accountability. There's nobody that cares if you're successful. In fact, I think like their business model is if you pay us and don't show up, that's better for us.

But they'd be in big trouble if everybody showed up.

Exactly. Good point.

Think about how much people complain in January when all the resolution people and now all of a sudden they can't get in a workout because for the two and a half weeks until everybody stops working out.

That's true. No, that's definitely true. But I'm curious, what. What do you think makes your CrossFit gym and your methods different than other CrossFit gyms? Because, you know, I feel like the accountability stuff is kind of. It's there with. With CrossFit in general. Right. Most of them kind of have a really do a good job of building that community and the accountability and things like that. What do you think makes you guys different that sort of gets this many people into the CrossFit games and. And, you know, gets you up to 800 members, while a lot of other CrossFit gyms around town are really struggling. You know, what do you think that sort of X factor is that you guys have that other gyms aren't doing?

Yeah, yeah, I think you're generally right. I think the success of CrossFit is largely on this understanding that there is better accountability in communities and groups. That fitness done, you know, with headphones on and a bunch of mirrors is probably not going to be as successful for most people because what most CrossFit gyms are tapping into just a need for connection. Right. As a society, we are extremely lonely.

And a lot of people are just siloed off in their individual cars and cubicles and all sorts of things. But I think what's made us different in that is we certainly lean into that. Right. That we want to make sure that people are healthy and happy. But I think the biggest difference is that we've never wanted to. Most CrossFit gyms are group coaching. And we do. We do a lot of private coaching as well as group coaching. But even within our group coaching, the one thing we've always emphasized is you are being coached, which means that you aren't. We do not expect members to walk in and all do the same workout. That if you have a group of 15 people, you might see eight different workouts going on during that same hour that are different variations that are more appropriate for that member than what might be written up on the whiteboard. And so it's really been our commitment to the individuals, not to the actual program.

And then what goes along with that is if you're going to do that successfully, you better hire really.

Smart professional coaches that are making good decisions on a daily basis and you make sure that you are constantly educating them so that they can be better. And so from very early on, while we have been a CrossFit affiliate, we love CrossFit, we've also deviated a lot more than most in terms of how we structure and design programs that.

And the things we add and the things that we don't do in our programs to make sure that they suit the goals and needs of our community members.

Yeah, that's good, man. And what you, I didn't even think about this though. But all the coaches, I mean coaches are a crucial part of the community, the culture. Extending your vision, you know, starts from the top, but also, you know, it starts from their level and even the members at the lowest level. Yeah.

So there must be an element there of like hiring really great people.

Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. How do you find the best people for, to fit in the culture as a coach that can, that can be, that advocate for, for your vision.

Yeah. So I mean one, we've been very lucky. So part of our, our initial, our initial team that we opened our gym with. Right. We were all total nerds, like when it came to training and like we all love to research and write. And so our business started, you know, before we even had 50 members. We were posting daily articles on our website. Right. Trying to give people substance and help them make their experience better. Which is how we built our online following. It's how we built our business. It's how we attracted athletes, is because we had a bunch of really smart coaches sharing what they learned. And when you do that, you then attract a bunch of other really smart coaches that want to be pushed, that want to be surrounded by other like minded individuals that don't want to just show up and, you know, coach the same stuff they've been coaching, but want to show up. They want to learn, they want to get better, they want to have a deeper impact on people. And so in the process of that, we recruited even more great coaches. Then we got to a point where people understood that, you know, what our brand was, what would be expected of them if they were to be offered a job. And so it got to the point where now, you know, every time we've hired, which knock on wood, we haven't had to hire that often, we don't have high turnover of our coaches, got a lot of 10 plus year employees.

But when we do put a job announcement, we're getting 100 plus applicants. So we can also Be really selective in our process.

Yeah, I love the fact that you have everyone. It's the sharing, the sharing of information and things you're learning, things they're learning. I think that's been actually a key thing that we've tried to do in our business as best as possible, is put everything out there widely available. And for a lot of business owners, I think it's scary to put out some of the secret sauce or whatever it might be.

It's kind of completely the opposite. Like, it brings in the best people the best. Like, for your case, in our case too, as best clients, team members as well, has helped and just, I would say, branding, you know, it helps with elevating the company to a higher level. And like, our give back is this podcast actually. Like, we don't charge anything, but we bring in, you know, the smartest people we know, and we try to get their best advice out of them.

And just. No, I mean, that's absolutely, I think, critical for any business. And it's kind of the genesis of why we wanted to get into this industry is like, hey, how can you help people? And if you figure out how you can help people, chances are you'll figure out how to monetize it at some point.

Oh, my God. Yeah. That's almost like the easy part. After the fact, you gotta get the attention and the trust first, and then, you know, from there, anything's possible.

Yeah. So, like, you say that's the easy part, but I'm not a business guy.

And so. Funny thing, I gotta share with you, One funny story is like, when. So we. We started in, like, the end of 2008, and we've been posting all this online content and stuff. It wasn't until 2012 I got an email or, I'm sorry, snail mail. Right. Like a hard copy letter from a guy. Still love the guy. Just got his Christmas card. But Peter Bashon, he's from, like, St. Louis, Missouri, is a real estate agent. He's got great family, a couple, you know, cute kids. And he wrote me this awesome letter. He's like, hey, man, I've been following your program. Here's all these PRs and stuff. And he said, I went to your website to see if I could buy a shirt or somehow support you, and you don't sell anything. So here's the check for 50 bucks.

That's awesome.

It's funny because, like, you talk about that, like, yeah, monetizing is the easy part. It was like, it never even crossed my mind that, like, people might buy T shirts, right? Yeah. So Peter sent me that, you know, mail way back in the day. I had no idea who he was other than, like, you know, see his name posting, and then we were like, oh, shoot, I guess we should add, like, a Shopify component to our website.

Yeah.

It was like, two years later, I think we did over three quarters of a million dollars in apparel or something.

Look at there, man.

See?

I guess I should have thought of this sooner.

I mean, like. Yeah. And obviously it's not always so easy on the, you know, without thinking of, you know, thinking about it. It's tough. But, like, if you have attention, if you're giving good value away, people just want to give back. And, yeah, it might be in who knows what form, but, like, merch, I mean, shoot. Yeah.

Well, it's amazing to have a brand that people want to go and sort of attach themselves to. That's. I mean, that's something that most companies never achieve. Right? Most companies never get to a point where the people want to wear the name of their company around, out in public and show off that I'm involved with this company in some way. So that's. I mean, that's. That's really, really impressive that just from a branding perspective, that you've managed to reach that point and almost kind of by accident, which makes it even more of a fun story. Even better.

Yeah, it's. You know, it's interesting. I love hearing you say that about, like, merch, because what I've always said when we review our financials is I'm like, the merch doesn't speak to me in financial measurement. It speaks to me in terms of brand equity. How much value do people place on the brand? Because we're not an apparel designer.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's. That's kind of how we see merch as well, is, you know, we sell it for 10, 15 bucks for a shirt, but it's like, it's negligible in terms of the finances. But when you see people posting on Instagram, social media, all that stuff, and furthering the message that we're trying to further ourselves now, you have this ripple effect. It's kind of like it just exponentially grows from that point on. And that's why we give a lot of stuff away as well. You know, like, actually, like when you took the intake form for this podcast, it's like, we always ask for an address and shirt size. We're like, well, it's branding play.

It's a free thing to us, and it's just a Kind of give back thing. Yeah.

I mean, I was going to kind of shift focus a little bit. Unless you had something else along these lines you want to talk about. Okay. I want to talk a little bit about work life, home life, balance and what your take is on it. You know, you've got a fairly big company, assuming you've got a family back at home. How. How do you kind of keep it all balanced and, and operating and, you know, everybody's getting the amount of time that they need to get from you.

Yeah, that. Man, that word balance is. I just, I'm not sure how I feel about it. Like, I can tell you that there is no balance in my life. I think that. And I don't even know if that's the goal. I think that.

For me it's, you know, you create your priorities. And I've got two kids, I've got a four and six year old and you know, and obviously their mom. And those are like, those are my non negotiables. There are things that, you know, I'm going to be home at a certain time to make sure that I'm there for dinner, and there are days that I'm going to, you know, drop them off at school. And if that means I have to cancel meetings or other things, then that just aligns with my priorities. And so I kind of build around that. And then.

Every other waking minute is devoted to the business and my employees and opportunities that arise. And, and that's just, that's just kind of been our, you know, our flow for my family. And I'm not sure it would be right for other people, but it's like, for me, I find that as long as I put them first, I'm willing to bear the brunt of like some schedule shifts and working late nights or something, as long as I know that I haven't missed significant things in my kids.

Yeah, cool. It kind of sounds like back to the core values.

When you're looking for folks, it's like, all right, so what's the why behind everything you're doing? And it doesn't have to be a perfect balance because, I mean, it's kind of impossible anyway. But you're striving for whatever, putting the focus in what matters most to you.

Yeah, that's right. And my kids are now a little bit older and it's easier. But I remember when they were like 1 in 3, I reached out to some friends. I'm like, how the hell do you guys do this? Guys that were also business owners or CEOs of large companies and very successful people I looked up to. It was really interesting and I was really appreciative that they all shared because we all had different ways of doing it. One of my guy just an insane amount of respect for, for he's a real mentor for me. But he was like, I leave the house at 5am, I get my workout in, I come home at 7 and don't do anything with work after that. And the kids go to bed like 7:30. So he doesn't necessarily wasn't seeing them a ton during the week, but he's like, no, my week is to dedicate all of my time and attention to my wife. After I get home, he's like, I really believe that, you know, that our relationship has to be the most important thing so that my kids are well taken care of. And then on the weekends, you know, he's totally devoted to his kids. And so, you know, for me, I look at those long days away from my kids, I'm like, man, I need to spend a little more time with that day to day with my kids. So it wasn't the right answer for me. But I loved the perspective of like, we all have looked at our priorities a little bit differently and said, here's how I'm gonna tackle this. And then as long as you kind of stay consistent to that commitment, I think it works well.

Yeah, I love that. Thanks for the explanation. And yeah, I think it's really cool. And I was just thinking about this actually going back to what you were saying earlier. We were talking about monetization. You said you're not really a business guy, which is funny running this thing. What are some of the struggles? What's a struggle that you just felt like, I don't know, like if it could have broken you. But there's something that was just massive that you got through in business specifically that you can share with us here and maybe some lessons along the way that you learn.

Oh man.

We'Ve definitely been through our fair share, but.

I mean it's still relatively recent. 2019 was really our first year turning it back around. But from 2008 through 2016, like it was just smooth sailing, right? Like it was super easy and like we were always exceeding expectations. And that's pretty awesome because then you don't even have to make smart decisions, right? That's true. You make stupid decisions. You can over hire and you know, pay people way too much and you could buy too much equipment. And as long as you keep growing, you kind of catch up to it. And in 16 we had a demolition clause in our lease of our original location and they exercised the demolition clause. So we said, okay, no problem, we'll move. You know, it happens. And we ran into, it would take hours to go, but we ran into the perfect storm of various city permitting facilities issues.

And we've heard about this. I have a buddy in San Diego has gone through similar things.

Yeah, yeah. So we, we ended up essentially one, we had to, we secured a lease on a location that was way further north of our only of our downtown location. It was in Sorrento Valley. And so we said, okay, well that's all we were able to find kind of in our search parameters. And so we signed a lease on that. It was going to be a massive facility. We're thinking, okay, well we're going to move from 5,000 square feet to 12,000 square feet because we've had all this growth.

And we get into the project and we're 35 days out from having to be out of our location and move into this place. And the city comes in and says, you're going to now need structural engineering. It's going to be about six month delay.

So. Yeah, so as a gym owner who's relying on, you know, recurring memberships, you can't just shut down for six months and say, hey, we'll let you know when we're open. You can come back. It doesn't work. And so we had to get really creative and we did and we found a great location. We love downtown, but we, you know, long story short, we built two 12,000 square foot facilities that at the same time as a self funded business with not anywhere close to requisite cash reserves and way too proud to ever take money when we didn't need it. Never knew that we should get a line of credit because we always had cash flow and then got ourselves into a position where we were spending well over half a million dollars over budget because of all these circumstances coming up with no, you know, financing, funding already secured. And so, you know, to say that, I mean there were legitimate times that we were probably on the brink of, you know, bankruptcy or disaster. Had one more thing, of course, yeah, broken bad for us. And so I still have no idea how the hell we got through it.

We're still standing in 2019, the first year that we're like, you know, since that end of 2016 where it's like, okay, we're, we're back on our feet and things are moving in the right direction and you know, it's But I think that experience of those struggles has made us so much better for the long term.

Yeah.

Because I don't think there would have never been an impetus for me to learn how to run a business.

If we had continued the smooth sailing that we had. Because I just thought, oh, this is easy.

Yeah. That was like the realization you're like, oh, I got to get my stuff in order.

Yeah, exactly. And so. Yeah. And there's nothing that will make you realize that quite like, you know, almost losing it at all.

Of course. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, man. I'm sure. Yeah, there's. That's the whole perseverance. I mean, I'm sure the mindset helped in all this stuff that you've already instilled, but that's. Yeah. Entrepreneurs, I mean, we're dealing with that every single day in different forms, you know, and some are massive like that, and some are just like, you know, a shitty client that's just, you know, pesking at someone and someone's freaking. Yeah. There's a lot of tolls, so. Yeah, that's really inspiring.

Definitely a good opportunity to practice the mindset that we preach.

Yeah, for sure. I met you got something over there. Well, sweet. I think. I mean, we hit everything that. Everything and more actually talk, actually, really quick about the nonprofit. Are you still with them or the one you started?

No, no, I started. I started it. Kind of a funny story. So I actually got in a lot of trouble in middle school. I was in seventh, eighth grade. But I jumped out of a moving bus window. Act of defiance because this substitute teacher said, nobody's getting off this bus.

He tried to, like, you know, he stood. He was a big guy. He, like, stood in the middle of the bus aisle, and he was, like, kind of threatening. Yeah, I was like, I'll get off the bus.

Watch me. Oh, there's broken leg and shit.

Yeah. And so anyway. But I had a great principal, and so it wasn't the first time I had been in trouble. And so. But she brought me in and she was like, hey, you got two choices. Like, you know, we have to expel you. She's like, or I'll send you to this. Yeah, I'll send you as a delegate to this leadership camp. And in my mind at the time, I'm like, I have to go to a camp with a bunch of nerds. Like, just expel me, you know?

And so she sent me the leadership camp. And then the follow up was I had to do something. I had to organize some event and So I organized this event, and I had a family member who had been in the neonatal intensive care in our hometown in Oregon. And so I said, okay, we'll do this event and we'll give the money to Children's Miracle Network, which funds the neonatal intensive care, and the money stays in your community and stuff. So we started it, and then.

At the time, it was this mile of quarters. We were just kids lining up quarters to middle school. We got some other middle schoolers involved, and it was like, oh, cool, that was nice little fundraiser. And then I went on to high school, and we realized, like, high school kids aren't going to get stoked about, you know, lining up quarters. But we did this, like, senior boy pageant, right? My high school was called Mr. Irish, where it was like, you know, all the girls voted, 10 guys got in, and then they raised money and they did all, you know, all sorts of crazy things. And it culminated with them doing, like, this kind of pageant where it was, like, funny skits and stuff like that. And so that took off, and then all these other schools wanted to be involved. And I mean, today, it's been a while. I'm 42 years old, but to date, I think it's raised over like, $16 million or something throughout the state of Oregon.

And so it was, you know, obviously it was a very successful fundraiser. One of the things, like I mentioned, unintended consequences. Consequences, though, is, you know, I grew up around the time of the first school shootings, and we had one, you know, near our area at Thurston High School with Kip Kinkle.

One of the unintended consequences of these senior boy pageants, though, is when you ask the full student body to vote, you get a representation of the full student body.

Yeah.

And through most aspects in school, like sports, you get little cliques, right? You get the guys who are very talented as athletes, or you get, you know, drama.

And the really cool thing is when you bring 10 kids together and the whole student body votes on it, is that there was a representative from every one of those groups. And then they had to be together and they. They spent significant time because they. They are also there. There was, you know, senior girls were involved, teaching them dance routines, setting up choreography, all this stuff. So these 10 guys are together all the time, and they end up making lifelong friends with people they had never talked to in four years of high school. And so it was this really cool bridge of, you know, these social groups, some of which were really outcasted. And it. It honestly, like, created this ripple effect through the community where it knocked down a lot of those, you know, barriers to, you know, and clicks and notions of who could do what.

Yeah. Like, even the plane and. Got it. Everybody had the same equal voice and the whole thing. Yeah, that's cool, man. No, that's. That's huge. And $16 million later, too.

Yeah. Which. Which I take, you know, zero credit for. That's right. You know, like, as a high school kid, like, you know, I was happy to stay. I worked on it all throughout high school. In college, I would continue to go back and, like, you know, give talks at, you know, kickoffs and conventions and stuff like that. But then it was like, you know, there's so many talented young people out there, which that was. I mean, man, that was a thrill, like, going back. Even when I was, you know, just out of college. I'd, like, meet these high school seniors. I'm like, dude, you're 40 times smarter than I was. Like, run with it.

Yeah, man, Just hang out.

It's been kept on by amazing young individuals.

Cool. Well, you started a good thing. No, that's rad, man. We'll wrap it up here. And we always like to end it. Just asking, what's a solid book? Something that. A book or resource that you just find yourself maybe going back to often or referring to buddies of yours, people in the gym, maybe There's.

Yeah. I love the Only Way to Win by Jim Lair. It's a great book that takes a very different approach than most high performance athletes are used to, in that it's really helping people to understand, like, what are you truly fighting for? Right. To make sure that you're not spending all your time kind of climbing the wrong ladder.

Nice. It's like required reading at your gym.

Right, man? Well, cool, cj. Well, where. Where can folks go check you out? Check out Invictus and all that.

Yeah, check us out online. Just invictus fitness.com and.

Brandatize my. You know, Eric would kill me, but I don't really know our social handles that well.

I was gonna ask you.

They're like CF Invictus or something like that.

We'll make sure to link them up on the actual show notes page.

Yeah, we got some help for it for that. But I love it, though. Like, you're leading the company. You don't need to know that crap.

Well, no, I just. I'm not a social media guy. It's still like. I mean, that's a different episode, but, like, I would be so happy to see it. All go away.

Yeah, no, I kind of.

We're on the same page, and that discussion's come up multiple times.

Yeah, it's too much noise out there.

I hate. I hate what it does to society. But, yeah, but yes, I love what it does for our business because it helps us share our message with much broader reach people. And we can share a ton of substance content on there. So most of our stuff is free. We're giving away great articles and telling everybody exactly how we work with clients in here and hoping that it helps change their lives elsewhere.

Sweet, man.

Appreciate it, man. Well, we'll go link that up in the show notes and all that stuff so people can find it. All right, cj. Appreciate your time, dude.

Awesome. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

Of course. Hey, hey, hey. Thank you for listening to that episode. This is Joe Fear. I'm sure you probably already knew that. And Matt is not here right now, but I'm pretty sure he enjoyed the episode just as much as you and I did because, you know, he went into the production of kind of making that thing right along with me. So thank you very much. And I want to give a quick shout out to our buddies over at Easy Webinar. These guys have been sponsored supporting us for a while, a long time. And Casey Zieman is just a super good guy all around. He's actually been on the show before. He's the founder of Easy Webinars. So if you look up Casey Zman on any podcast platform you're listening to, go check him out. Go check out his backstory, what he's all about. You can learn a lot about webinars as well. And right now, you know, Easy Webinar, these guys are actually hooking you up with a great trial. It's a completely free trial to test out their software, Soup to nuts. Check it all out and see if it's a good fit for you. If you go to easywebinar.com hustle, that's H U S T L E. If you didn't know how to spell hustle, There you go. So if you go to EasyWebinar.com hustle you can go grab a free trial. And EZ webinar literally lives up to its name. It's super simple. I mean, super easy. And it does all the stuff that you're looking for in any kind of thing with webinars, I mean, they literally cover every single type of webinar you possibly can do. So from live to automated to scheduled at specific times and all these crazy features in between. Can't even list them all out. I'll be here way too long. They give you a ton of advanced analytics, what's working, what's not. During your webinar, based off all these actions, you'll see who attended, how long they stayed, if they clicked the offer, or if they basically, you're gonna make more money and you're gonna work less with this thing and you're gonna create better relationships with the folks that are listening because it's a good experience. You want to give that good experience along with some great content, of course, and a killer offer if that's what you got for them. So go try it out yourself. Go check out easywebinar.com hustle that's easywebinar.com hustole. Alrighty righty. So that is the end of this episode. Thank you so much much for listening to this episode, enjoying it. Hopefully you did. I'm pretty sure you did if you lasted this long. And go check out Easy Webinar when you get the chance. And we will talk to you next time. Bye Bye.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode.

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Taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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