Caleb Simpson — The CBD Business And How To Market Without The Ad Platforms

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hit it.

Hit what?

Da da da da da da da.

Mommy preacher.

Hey, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. We're gonna get sued.

Oh, I don't even think I said the words right.

Good. Perfect. I don't think my da da da was even in the right tone.

Yeah, that could have been Deep Purple's Smoke on the Water. That could have been the be. Who has more money if we don't want to.

Yeah, see? All right, cool. Off to a good start here. Yeah. Oh, man. What will we be talking about today, Mr. Matthew?

Okay, this episode is killer. So what? What? I was going to get to that.

Oh, okay. Making sure.

So in this episode, it's kind of like a two part, sort of like split episode. The first. The first half.

The first half we talk about cbd, the world of CBD oils and, you.

Know, the taboos, the science, the ways to use them, the benefits.

It's a hot topic right now.

Right.

Like they're calling it the green rush because, you know, marijuana is getting legalized in more and more states and CBD is not marijuana. Cbd.

Well, a clear distinction is made on the podcast.

Yeah, he makes a distinction. It's not psychoactive. It doesn't get you high.

Open loops, remember?

Sorry, sorry. So we talk about why CBD is such, like a popular industry right now and how the business models around CBD work and all the various benefits that people have claimed they've gotten from CBD oil. And we really kind of deep dive into that CBD kind of topic that Joe and I don't even know that much about.

Oh. So. And dude, really the thing that was blowing us away. So. Yeah, that was like half the conversation was digging into that because that is a space that a lot of folks just don't know about.

Yeah. It's such a new sort of emerging market right now.

Yeah, it's. And we joked about it, but we legitimately know a lot of people with CBD companies and they all seem to be doing well. Yeah. Which is interesting. So that piqued our interest when Caleb. So I don't think we even said his name. Caleb Simpson of HempDaddies.com. he reached out to us because he's a listener of our show and he caught our attention. It wasn't like a pitch that he sent to us, but it was in conversation. I think he was responding to one of Our chat bots, actually. And Sarah on our team sent it my way. And he's like, hey, Joe, you should probably look at this. He looks like a pretty sweet guy. And he's getting big results from some of the stuff he's learning on the show.

Yeah.

You know, SEO is a specific one. And then I was like, oh, that caught my attention because how the hell does he market this company? And he said, he's grown really big. It's growing well. And it looked like a great product. Everything checked out. I like the story on there. He looked like a cool dude. So I was like, yeah, why not?

Yeah.

And then it. But the big thing that piqued our interest was like, how the hell does he market? Yeah.

Well, because Facebook and Google, they don't like the CBD world. They still lump that in with, like, drugs and marijuana and stuff. So they still don't let companies in the CBD world promote their CBD products on those platforms. So he was sort of forced to find alternate routes and alternate marketing strategies outside of traditional paid media. And so that's where we really spent, like, the other 50% of this episode is discussing how are you driving traffic to a CBD company when, like, the ad platforms are kind of shutting you off? And. Right. This is going to be relevant to if you're selling in the alcohol space or if you're selling in the. The cryptocurrency space, or there's a lot of spaces where, like, maybe you're in the firearms market or something like that. There's a lot of spaces that Google and Facebook don't want you to promote in. And so you're gonna have to learn alternate marketing strategies to kind of, you know, get. Get around those and find other ways to get attention. And of course, it's all relevant for any business because if you don't have a business that is sort of in one of those taboo niches, well, you could just compound what you're doing with advertising with this stuff that he's doing.

That's exactly what we took away from it.

Yeah.

For our own offers. Yeah. So it's. Yeah. Caleb's just good dude and amazing products, it looks like. I mean, we're gonna. We're gonna try some actually fairly soon. Yeah. And the guy's just genius. And the cool thing is he's doing this all by himself.

Yeah. One man show.

It's insane. And just. I mean, he even says profit margins are high. He had a back background in other spaces where profit margins were tiny. Yeah. So the dude's like, he's doing it right, And. And he also does the profit first stuff. So he's a big Mike Michalowicz fan. He found us that way through his show when we're on his show, Profit First. So it's. It's kind of cool. He talked a lot about how, you know, he's actually pretty dang successful just by himself. So. Yeah, man.

So his website is Hemp daddies, right? Yes, hempdaddies.com. and he actually gave us a coupon code we don't actually mention. Like, if you want to buy some CBD oil through his site, we don't mention the coupon code until the very end. So I wanted to make sure I get it out here at the front of the episode too. So if you are interested in learning more about it and getting some CBD oil. He gave us a coupon. It's Hustle and Flow. So it's not Hustle and Flow chart. Hustle and Flow, all one word. If you use that coupon, I think he said it's free shipping and 10% off your order.

Yeah.

So Hustle and Flow will get you a nice little discount over on his website.

That's HempDaddies.com. hustle and Flow. Hustle and Flow is the coupon code. 10% off.

We may be an affiliate. We may not. I'm not sure. We didn't really clarify, but, you know, there's a possibility we might get a kickback on that. I don't know. Oh, you know what?

We're gonna say that this is the first time we've ever had a CBD or Green Rush sponsor on the podcast.

So whether we make money off of this, yet to be determined. So this episode may come out, and we may get compensation if you buy through this link. We may not. We never really agreed on anything. We just. He just gave us that coupon code. So if you go to Hempdaddies dot, go to Hustle. Use the coupon code. Hustleandflow. Free shipping, 10% off your order. And let's go talk to him. Let's go talk to Caleb.

Let's do it. Hey, Caleb, thanks for hopping on the show with us, man.

You bet, man. Happy to be here.

Yeah. So you're a listener and you reached out because you're doing cool stuff. You're kind of sharing some results with us and the team, and that's what got my attention, because you and I chatted a handful of times here and there, and then I looked a little deeper in your site, and then now I know your background a little bit more, we'll really dig into it. I'm like, oh, damn, this guy's up to some cool stuff.

Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, timely with the whole green rush and all the. You're kind of calling it a wild, wild west right now.

Yeah, we were talking right before we hit record and the stuff we're going to be talking about, CBD and that sort of world, it's uncharted territory for us. So it's a new topic that we haven't really dug into on the podcast. We're also talking about how it's very, very rare that, you know, somebody reaches out and sort of, you know, pitches us an idea for something to talk about on the podcast, that we actually bring them on the podcast. So, you know, this. The stuff that you're going to be talking about today and some of the avenues we're going to go down, we're really, really excited about, just because, you know, it's. It's. It's all new territory for us, so.

Well, it was a little.

Yeah, yeah, let's dive in.

Yeah, man. It was a little selfish, too, because we like the whole, you know, CBD and just interested to learn a lot more. So.

Well, I supplement with CBD in the mornings and. Yeah, so, I mean, we'll get into all that, I'm sure, throughout the course of the conversation, but let's go ahead and dive in. Let's. Let's kind of get into your backstory. What were you doing before, what you're doing now, and sort of, how did you transition into the world you're in now?

Yeah, sounds good. So. So prior to, you know, you know, starting Hemp Daddy's and doing the whole CBD space, I was, you know, involved in a consumer packaged goods startup called Bearded Brothers Energy Bar. So I was one of the two co founders in that. And, you know, Chris and I, we ran that for eight years, and we saw an exit in that business last year. And after that exit, it's like, well, I need something else to do. And during kind of towards the end of that exit, we were kind of already starting to talk about, you know, potentially launching CBD products within that other business. And new management that came in didn't want to have anything to do with cbd. It's like, well, hey, if you don't want to have anything to do with it, I'm going to do my own thing. And so pretty much, you know, during. During the exit process of the business, I was already starting to work on the hemp daddy's brand and already had connections in the industry for, you know, who could, you know, manufacture the product for me. So as soon, as soon as the sale ended, I was up and running with hemp Daddy's.

Nice. How did, how did you get into that? I'm just kind of curious about how you sort of became an entrepreneur. How did you get into bearded brothers thing and where did that, where did that idea come from and how did you travel down that path?

Yeah, so when we started like eight years ago, I had just moved to Austin, Texas. I'd moved from Denton where I'd lived for like 30 years. So, you know, and it always been stuck in this kind of what I thought were like dead end jobs, just doing, you know, random marketing things. Just never, you know, making the progress I wanted to. And you know, then I was like, you know, I think I want to start my own business. And I kind of had this idea for the energy bars in the back of my head because I'd been into like a raw vegan diet. And when I moved to Austin, I saw how supportive Austin was of like the local scene.

Yeah.

I said, well, wow, this would be a great place to start up a business. And so, you know, without knowing what the hell I was doing, just hit the ground running and we started it. And eight years later, we were in 2,000 locations nationwide and it was doing pretty well.

Wow. That's right. And so I know from your background, just reading on your site, you know, do you still ultra marathon? You run or is that in the past?

Yes, I do. I kind of. I took a little break just because, you know, last year with, you know, starting this up and exiting other business was pretty stressful. But, you know, I got another ultra marathon on the schedule now and getting back into it.

Dude, that's crazy. Yeah, I did a. The furthest I've ever run. I did a off road marathon. So that was fun.

Yeah. Yeah, they're fun, man.

Yeah. I don't know if I'd do it again because, like, I mean, maybe, but what's the longest you've run? I'm just curious.

100 miles. A hundred miles is the longest I've done.

Nice. So sentry. That's rad. I biked that in a race, but running, I can't even imagine that.

That's a lot of people said, yeah, I've biked 100 miles, but I wouldn't run it.

Yeah.

Have you done bad water?

No. Hell no. I have no desire to do that. 1.

All right, now you gotta. You gotta close that loop for me. I have no clue what that means.

Well, it's like it's a 120mile race in the desert, and it's below sea level. It's pretty much most of the race is flat. It's just. Sounds miserable.

Yeah, it's like Death Valley. And you got.

Oh, yeah, no, screw that.

Yeah, yeah. Was it Kaczynski or what was one of the big runner?

The Unabomber?

No. Yeah. Not Ted Kaczynski. That'd be bad. There's Ultron. I always mispronounce his last name.

There's several of them.

Yeah. I don't know. They're just crazy.

And more importantly, do you. Do you still have a beard? Are you still a bearded brother?

Yes, I am. I still have a beard.

Okay. Yeah.

Joe and I consider ourselves bearded brothers as well. So we're not actually brothers.

There's magic in the beard.

Well, very cool. Let's. Let's shift in and talk a little bit about what your business is now. So you're in the CBD space. You know, why. Why did you decide that space? And you know what? You know, how did you get into that?

Yeah, so that's a great question. So it was. It's largely personal reasons because during, like, selling the business was, like, the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life. Just like, you know, the back and forth of lawyers, negotiations, and, like, I was just stressed out of my mind and through that. And during that time, I started taking cbd, and it was really helping with, like, the anxiety and the stress. And I also had some, you know, chronic running injuries and a. Some, like, chronic bursitis in my back from a car accident years ago. And I was seeing relief in those areas where I've never seen a whole lot of relief before. I was like, wow, this stuff really works. And so even when we were thinking about launching in products, I'd still never actually used it myself. But after using, I was like, man, this stuff is really great. And, you know, being entrepreneur when I was exiting, it's like, well, this is the next thing for me. It's like, you know, this stuff helps people, and, like, you know, I want to help people. And so that's what led me, you know, to start this business.

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's cool because, you know, Matt and I have definitely tried. I mean, we. Matt, I think you're a little bit more consistent with cbd.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's one of those things where it's. And I don't know if you felt this or not, because I'd like to kind of understand how this works. It seems like each person is different. They kind of. They feel it differently depending on maybe, I don't know what body chemistry, but how can talk about that a little bit? Because we're curious how that works.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Like you said, everyone's different and feels the effects of CB differently and needs different dosages to get the symptom reliefs that they're looking for. Where one person might be pretty healthy overall. They just want a little bit of help getting to sleep at night. They might need as small as a 10 milligram dose. Somebody like me who has some chronic pain issues. I take about 60 milligrams a day. And so everyone's going to be different in, you know, and like, you were kind of alluding to as well, like, consistency and taking it is also important because there's a half life to it, and it builds up in your system over time. I had one customer reach out this morning, said, like, he just placed another order because he'd been off his CBD for two weeks and noticed all these aches and pains coming back that he hadn't been feeling as into, like, taekwondo and stuff like that. So he was seeing a lot of relief. And it wasn't just a placebo, because when he stopped taking it for two weeks, he started noticing it coming back. And so a lot of people are, you know, my repeat customers are noticing things like that. They're like, okay, when I stop taking this, like, these symptoms are coming back. And so they, you know, so it's. This is a. This business. Nice thing about this business, it's good for repeat business because the people. It's not just like my other business, like an energy bar. There's, like, not a lot of brand loyalty there. People bounce around a lot of times, but something like this, it's like once they find something that works, they're gonna stick with it.

Right. And that's what I was just thinking. And the whole time you're describing that, I was like, man, this is a killer subscription business.

Recurring model now with cbd, real quickly, just for the audience who may, you know, not really know that world too much. It is kind of like a newer sort of thing that, you know, there's a lot of buzz around right now, and I think there's probably still a little bit of a stigma. I think there's still some people out there that equate CBD with marijuana and like, oh, yeah, I don't want to get high. I don't want to take cbd. Isn't this stuff illegal? Can you kind of just speak into that and kind of explain the difference between, you know, CBD and smoking weed?

Oh, yeah, totally. Yep. Yeah, I'd love to. And so, yeah, and some of, like, the podcast I did early on, the hosts were, like, really hesitant to have me on just because of the. What they thought was a really close association with marijuana. But there's a pretty distinct difference. So there's basically two different plants. There's a hemp plant and the marijuana plant. Like, marijuana is high in thc, which is what's going to get you high, but the hemp plant is high in CBD and it's non psychoactive, so it's not gonna get you high. And so there's zero intoxicating effects. You just get all the medicinal and therapeutic benefits from the cbd. And so it's. There's. I mean, there's no reason, if you have an issue with THC and you don't want to be high, it's like, you're not gonna experience that with CBD.

Yeah.

Is CBD, is it legal in all 50 states now, or is there still some states that are kind of lagging on that?

There are still some states lagging. So, like, the 2018 farm bill just made the stuff legal from the federal level, but there's still some issue, I think, like, Ohio is one of the states that's just really weird. They're lagging behind and they're kind of digging their heels in the ground and saying, no, it's still illegal here. And so some states, it's a bit of a gray area. Some states, it's completely a go. So if it's one of those things you want to try out, definitely check with your, like, you know, local states. Or just say, screw it, I'm gonna do it anyway. Which is a lot of people are doing. Especially since it's a stuff that can be shipped directly to your house. Like, you're not gonna have it out in the open.

You know, that is what's interesting is that, yeah, you can easily get this stuff online, like on your website.

We've ordered from 2018 Farm Bill also made it legal to ship CBD across state lines. There can't be any, like, sort of interference by, like, the DEA or anything like that anymore.

Wow, that's really cool.

And I think it's still happening some, but it's supposedly it Was supposed to make it completely legal.

Well, any listeners in Ohio, if you're listening, go lobby for.

I have customers in Ohio, though, so I know a lot of people just don't care. Whatever.

Yeah, of course, yeah. I mean, if you want it that bad, you're gonna get it somehow.

Now, can you speak into a little bit what some of the reasons people use CBD for? Like, what are some of the uses?

Yeah, so some of the biggest things are like mental health issues, like depression, anxiety and ptsd. Like, so those are some of the biggest things. A lot of, you know, there's even a lot of CBD companies out there that are kind of niche is like the veterans with ptsd. So you have, you know, people like that. My wife, she takes it for her depression and she got released from her depression, was able to get off her prescription medication. And a lot of people are taking it for chronic pain issues. Athletes, which is kind of my target market, or taking it for, you know, chronic inflammation and to heal faster from, you know, these, you know, 100 mile runs and things like that.

That's. That's really cool. And see, that's what I love the most about all these different alternative medicines, and if you want to say it as such, is get them off the pills, get them off all those. The crazy addictive things out there that are literally crushing people's lives.

Yeah. And a lot of people are going to see this is like the cure, like a potential cure to the opioid crisis. Just like getting people off those, like, dangerous, addictive.

Yeah, man.

Joe and I, we're both proponents of THC too, so we have no problem with any of it.

But say what you will hear.

Yeah, we've got no problem with the cbd, the thc, to be honest, I've got no problem with plants in general. There's no plants that bug me. But I was gonna say the same thing goes with thc. I actually started taking THC at night when I had severe sciatica pains. And that actually helped me sleep and actually helped me not have to use opioids.

It was actually the chiropractor doctor said, hey, you might want to try that.

Exactly. But so for me, the reason I actually started taking CBD wasn't actually for pain. It was actually for anxiety. I'm actually, I struggle with anxiety kind of all the time, and CBD sort of helps me there, but I haven't totally figured out the correct dosage yet. I actually think I'm probably taking too little to help with my anxiety because for me it's very like.

I don't know if all CBD is like this. For me, it's very sub perceptible. Like I, I kind of can't tell any difference when I take it versus when I don't. So I mean, I guess let's, let's kind of speak into like the various, kind of like dosing for the different like issues that you might be suffering from.

Yeah, totally. So, yeah, so something like that. It's like, I mean, you might as want as many like 40 to 100 milligrams a day. I'm kind of just throwing that out there as like what I think would probably be a good dose. Like my wife, you know, for her depression, she takes about 60 to 80 milligrams a day. And she also spreads it out throughout the day. Like, because when she first started doing it, she was taking one dose a day. Then she, you know, divided up in two doses a day and still wasn't getting quite the relief she was looking for. But now she has her doses spread out four times throughout the day and she's getting the relief that she wants and it's, and it's working great. So a lot of the times, like, people are kind of, um, they jump out of it too soon. They're like, it didn't work for me, I don't want to mess with it anymore. And like, they go away from it when they haven't fully experimented with the dosing. And you know, most of the time all, all people need to do is increase their dose a little bit and they'll start seeing the results they're looking for.

Yeah. Now, is CBD kind of always like a sub perceptible thing or can, can you actually like sort of feel when it kicks in once you're like really in tune with your body and what you're kind of expecting?

Well, what I've noticed is like, when I first started taking it, like it was a little more noticeable. But like, over time, like you get used to it. So it kind of becomes like, the best way I can describe it is it becomes your new norm. It's like, and then pretty soon you're just like, wow. It's like those little niggles and aches I was feeling are gone now. It's like, you know, I'm not as stressed anymore, I'm sleeping better. Like, they become kind of subtle because it is non psychoactive. It's not like if you smoked a joint, you're gonna notice that in like 10 minutes. It's like, you know, with this, it's like, it's, it's pretty subtle, but it is noticeable if you pay attention.

And so how about the different uses? Because I know they come in all sorts of forms, tinctures and vapes and all these things. Are there any one that you would recommend to start with?

Yeah, always recommend starting with the tincture because you can, you can adjust your dose very easily. And like. So with my products, my capsules are. Come in a higher dose. So like somebody just starting out. I would not recommend taking a dose that high because it could potentially cause nausea or just not be as effective. Like it's. CBD is typically more effective if you start with a low dose and like gradually work up to the dose that works for you.

Yeah, and that's what I've heard is almost like micro dose and then. Yeah, work your way up because it's.

Kind of build up. You don't want to just jump straight into like a large dose.

That makes sense. Yeah. We just pulled up your capsules and it looks like 20 milligrams each.

And just to clarify for any of the listeners, a tincture is essentially like a, A little like eyedropper kind of thing that you take like an eyedropper.

And you take it sublingual, you just drop it under your tongue and let it sit there for about 60 seconds. And whatever's left, you just swallow.

That's rad. Okay, we'll have to. We're gonna try some of this.

Joe's clicking around on your website right now.

Yeah, I mean, for one, the website's just like beautiful. It's very clear. That's what's really cool is that it's unassuming. I can see it has like that outdoor feel. You have the mountains and all that stuff. So it's, it's just really cool. It looks different and. Yeah, and we were talking as well before this. Like, we know a lot of people in this space. I mean, everybody has like, there's an angle for this because there's so many uses for it. I think that's what's really interesting because there's a lot of players right now in this whole CBD field.

THC as well, big in the dog market now too.

That's. We just had a call the other day is dog biscuits. And we're going to feature our dogs in someone's case studies for their company.

Oh, cool.

Yeah, so with the, you know, there's obviously CBD and thc. THC is the psychoactive substance. Now when you buy the CBD oils from you. Is there any thc? Because from what I understand, there's always kind of like trace amounts, right?

Yep. So there's basically two different types of CBD oils. There's CBD isolate and full spectrum cbd. Our product is full spectrum, which means it has trace amounts thc. And that's what you're actually looking for because the full spectrum CBD has the most medicinal and therapeutic benefits. Like that THC kind of works in harmony with all those other cannabinoids to help them work more effectively. Like, there was a study done in Israel where they tested, like, CBD isolates versus a full spectrum CBD on patients for pain. And what they found was that the full spectrum of CBDs were more beneficial than just like a CBD isolate because it had those additional cannabinoids in there, including a trace amount of thc.

That's fascinating.

And even with those trace amounts. And this is actually a question that we saw straight up on your FAQ on your page, but I'm curious about the answer for our listeners. So with those trace amounts of thc, if somebody's working in a day job that, like drug tests, like, that's not enough to show up on a drug test, I'm assuming it can.

So, like, it's probably not likely, but it all depends on your metabolism, you know, so somebody who's a little bit overweight has more fat. Like, so THC is stored in fat. So that person might be more susceptible to triggering a test. And like, say, like an athlete who's pretty lean, like, chances of them triggering a test are pretty slim, but there is still a chance. So I always have to warn people, like, because I don't want people losing their jobs and coming after me, you know?

Yeah.

So if you're like, if you're a fat guy and you're out on probation, maybe skip CBD until your probation period's over.

Just lose a little weight maybe.

Yeah, definitely skip the cbd. I had a guy who's working in a nuclear power plant right now, wants to take it, but he's drug tested randomly, so he's not risking it right now.

It's so interesting, too. It's funny you're saying about this, but Matt and I had these conversations with our parents now, and everybody had this stigma. I'm sure it's society that's built this kind of stigma. And then we're raised in this. Matt and I are, what, 34? He's 36. So it's like, during this whole area, it's like, ah, the drug war and all that. But now we're having discussions, like, with my mom, she was saying how she used CBD and coconut oil. It was a homemade thing from someone in her family. And she's like, this feels amazing. My arthritis. Like, this is the best thing I've ever used. And it's just topical. It's just fast. It's just cool to have these conversations where, like, the stigma is kind of starting to get broken where folks.

Oh, yeah, totally. It's like I have, like, this. I just ran into this girl I grew up with in church a while back, and her dad was struggling dementia, and they're here in Texas, and she's like, could we just get him some marijuana? Like that will help them.

Yeah. Does it really, actually with dementia.

Yeah. Yes, it's thc, supposedly is really, really helpful for dementia.

Interesting.

Alzheimer's too, or.

I think. I can't say for certain. I haven't done a ton of research.

But that's cool to know. Yeah. Because I know that runs in my family. So I'm like, all right, so anything I could do to supplement 100.

And I've actually got both my parents on the THC train for sleep, too. I've got both of them taking THC right before bed.

There you go.

Pretty amazing.

Now, do you. Do you have any, like, aspirations to move into, like, doing stuff with THC as well? I know in Texas, it's. It's only legal for medical. Medical, I believe. But, I mean, we're. We're approaching federal legalization, I would say, within the next five years.

Yeah.

So do you have any aspirations to.

Travel down that path potentially? Like, I'm still doing a lot of research in regards to, like, you know, medical uses of THC and, you know, and just kind of forming my own opinions on that and, like. And I'm actually moving to Colorado soon just to be more entrenched in the industry and being up there. So, like, I mean, there's a good chance I could get involved in that stuff later down the road, especially if it's legalized on the federal level.

Right.

Because right now my plan is to stay direct consumer for as long as possible. Just because I've done. I've been down the road of doing wholesale and, like, it's something I never want to do again.

Right. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. You go, I saw the Bearded Brothers website in Publix and all these other big. Yeah, yeah, I know. Your profit margins just go to nothing. After a while.

Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. We, when we launched in Walmart, the profit margins there, it's like, man, this is like, is it worth it dealing with Walmart now? Yep.

Yeah, man. Well, and on your website. And I know this was the whole thing that kind of caught my attention. CBD was a big part of it. But you said SEO has really kicked in for your business, so you don't have to rely on all these third party wholesalers. And you have a ton of content, which I don't know how much, but you're doing it right. Talk about that. So if we transition a little bit to the business side, has SEO been one of the biggest drivers of traffic for you?

It has. It's been a pretty decent driver. Not as big as I would like it to. And I've got plans for kind of adjusting how I'm doing some of my content pieces just so they rank higher. I got a handful of posts that are ranking like page one. So like, you know, third party lab testing is a big thing. So somebody who searches third party lab tested cbd. It's pretty low search volume. But I'm on the top page and I get a lot of traffic from it. So like, there's a handful of things I'm ranking really high for. And I see, I see a lot of traffic coming through that. And so, yeah, I'm like, I'm doing pretty well on that front. And like, you know, more and more posts are starting to, you know, the longer they're there, the more they're starting to move up in the ranks. So some are on page two, but people are still coming across those. Like I recently did like a survey with my customers just to find out where they came from. And like a good percentage of them were just saying researching online. So I mean it tells me there they're finding me in search. Yep.

Yeah. So what other sort of marketing methods are you using to get the word out there? And also, is it true that like Facebook and Google and some of these ad platforms, they're not quite on board with promoting these types of products using their advertising yet?

Yeah, totally. So I can. So I'll speak a little to that and I'll just kind of give you a list of the kind of the main areas that, that I've been using to get customers and we can kind of dive deeper into each one of whatever one you guys want to go down.

Sweet. Cool.

So yeah, like you're saying like Facebook and Google do not allow like the advertising of CBD and like and it's one of those things too. Like, everyone. I see everyone in industry complaining and moaning, oh, when is Facebook gonna allow cbd? It's like, well, they might not ever allow it. They don't allow cigarettes. They don't allow alcohol. So maybe they'll never allow it. So you don't need to sit around waiting for it. So there's like five main areas where, you know, I'm kind of focusing on to, like, drive traffic is. One is like brand ambassadors, like SEO, like we talked about, you know, the blogs and they're all mainly educational pieces like appearing on podcasts have been huge for me. Instagram is driving a lot of traffic for me. Like just organic Instagram content and also had kind of like niche websites and email marketing. Those are kind of like the main areas I'm using to drive traffic and revenue.

Sweet. So that was. Yeah, referral partners, SEO appearing on podcasts, Instagram, organic, and then the niche sites. Right. I think that's.

Yeah. And also in email marketing.

And email marketing, of course. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. We're just writing that down because that list right there alone, I mean, this is another thing that really piqued my attention when talking to you. I was like, okay, the fact that you are so regulated and so kind of handcuffed to some of these common ways of getting traffic. Because this is a common question we get. We have our traffic program we're big fans of. If you figure out traffic, you can kind of figure out what to do anything after that. But, yeah, you're kind of confined. So this is really cool that you're going after these organic ways, it looks like.

Yeah. And I mean, these discussions I think we're going to get into, I think they're going to be pretty relevant to a lot of people. I mean, if you're in the cryptocurrency space, there's a lot of issues promoting stuff in the cryptocurrency space.

Financial in general.

Yeah, like you mentioned. You mentioned, like, alcohol and stuff. Joe and I actually have a niche site that's in the alcohol space.

Homebrew.

In the homebrew beer space. Funny enough, we're not even that big of drinkers, but it was a business that we acquired at one point. So, I mean, going down some of these marketing avenues I think would be really relevant to a lot of people that do have a few handcuffs to what methods they can use for marketing.

So which one's like, the one that really has given, like, where should we start? Like, the 80 20, if we're thinking that way.

The podcasts have been the biggest driver for me. And it's not podcast ads, but it's like being a guest on the podcast and almost like, I kind of liken it to, like, an infomercial kind of type type piece. And it happened by accident. There was one podcast in the Trail Runner scene called Trail Runner Nation. I'd just been reaching out to these guys pretty regularly, trying to get on, trying to get advertising opportunities with them, but they kind of kept ignoring my emails. They're the ones that were kind of like, yeah, I'm not sure about the CBD thing. It's closely associated with marijuana. And so they finally got back to me and responded, and they said, hey, we don't want to do anything with this right now. So I shot him a message back, hey, if you just want to jump on the phone and talk about this, I would just love to give you more information. And so.

And they.

We set up a call, and we get on the call. He's like, hey, can you jump over to Skype? I was like, I don't know why you want to do the call on Skype, but, okay, so we jump over there, and, like, there they are in their podcasting studio, and they're like, well, we're just gonna hit record on this conversation and launch it as a podcast.

Oh, nice.

Huge educational piece. And I've gotten thousands of dollars of sales from that one. From that one podcast. I'm still getting sales from it. And so. And I was like. And I compared that to some of the advertising I've done. It's like, well, wow, this is way more profitable. So, like, that's one of my main focuses, is just trying to get on shows. And I'm still doing a little bit of podcast advertising. It's not as profitable as actually educating people about the product.

Yeah, and you approach it in a really cool way, too. That's unassuming. It's not like, what's this drug you gave? It's like, no, none of that. It's like, no, you have a really interesting background. You're doing really cool stuff and podcasting. We guest on shows all the time, and it has been a massive driver. So I was curious, Caleb, about outreach. So actually, like, what, do you have a process for going to these people with shows? Do you have kind of like a formula that you go through?

You know, nothing fancy. It's just pretty much just like, you know, doing research. You know, a lot of it's, you know, podcasts. I'm Already familiar, familiar with and reaching out to them. You know, like, you guys, I'm already familiar with your show, so reach out to you guys. And so a lot of it's just shows I'm already familiar with and listen to where I think it might be a good fit in some way. And a lot of the times too, it's just like doing research and finding other shows that might be a good fit as well. And just reaching them, reaching out to those people and, you know, letting them know what I have to offer and see if it might be a good fit.

I think that's.

You just. It sounds so simple when you say it, but so many people screw it up. I don't know how many pitches we get per day. It's way too many. It's at least. I mean, it's like 5ish to 10.

I literally deleted one right before we got on this call. So if you want to know how we typically treat people who come to us with ideas, the problem isn't the people. The problem is the approach to the pitch. Right. The way most people come is they'll copy and paste a message that you could tell was just copied and pasted to 40 people. Right. Like, they'll send us a message going, hey, I love your blog@evergreenprofits.com I especially loved the article called and then you could tell they, like, filled in the blank of like, just some random post they found on our blog.

That's what.

Yeah.

What's worse is when they don't even, like, change out some of that copy and paste stuff. I saw that in my old business quite a bit.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. So you've seen it too. And I'm sure you see it now, too, but it's crazy, man. And that's just to show the power of podcasting, the fact that you're doing it. We know so many other people that are doing this in any niche out there, and it could be an amazing, like you said, infomercial style. And it's, you know, in this long form or any podcast, it's this like, really intimate thing. So people are hearing so much in any one time that they're probably going to take an action with you. So that's cool. I want to hit on those other points too. So the niche site sounded interesting. Yeah.

So I don't have a lot of examples of this one yet, but there's one site called like, Bike Rumor. Like it's a cycling website. And so I've done like, kind of like a big package deal with them where I've, you know, I've sent an email to like, you know, several thousand of their, of their customers. We've done a question and answer piece on their site. There's another, there's a survey piece that's about to go out next month or next week as well. And so like getting, you know, I've been getting a lot of traffic from that source and a lot of sales as well. And so that's, and that's from, what do you call it? It's really high, it's like a high ranked site. And so like having that SEO value has been big as well.

So are you, are you writing articles for them or are you paying for advertising on this site? Like what, what's your approach when you find these niches?

This one is paid advertising. So like it's the only paid advertising I've done so far. I've reached out to other sites recently, but they're kind of, you know, they were afraid of the stigma still. And so, you know, we haven't pulled the trigger with them, but with these guys it's been really good. So like the first one, the first piece we did was a question and answer piece. And so they sent out a call for questions first. And I probably actually got more sales from that call for questions than I did the actual piece because, you know, a lot of the people had already seen it and so a lot of the people had already come over and purchased product from me. So there's that question and answer piece that went up. There was a direct email. So it was basically I emailed their entire customer list with my sales pitch. And there was another just generic email that they sent out that just had kind of inline ads in their email. And so some of the inline ads didn't do as good as the actual, you know, email that went out, you know, for just my product only. So it's kind of like a special offer to their customers. And so that one did pretty well. Probably got about, you know, thousand dollars worth of sales off of that one. But so the whole package deal has been, you know, pretty profitable for me.

So out of curiosity, what is something like those cost? Like if you were gonna do like a dedicated email drop to a site like Bike Rumor or something?

Yeah, so there's, I can't remember the prices specifically, but it was fairly inexpensive for like that one piece. So like my entire package with them was like $2,000. But like it's, it's paid for itself already and we're not even done with the content pieces. And so each, each one of those things had different price points and everything. So I can't remember exactly what they were. But like, I mean, I remember the email drop. I was like, wow, it was pretty cheap. I want to say it was like a few hundred dollars, like 300 bucks or something like that.

No brainer for you. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. See, that's what's interesting is, yeah, you might be restricted on certain channels like AdWords and Facebook and whatnot, but all these other channels, like podcasting, it's unregulated, so you can even go sponsor shows if you want to.

There's all these. A lot of niche sites out there. I mean, a lot of these, these guys have reached out to have. It's funny, they've already, like, I mean, one I emailed yesterday got back to me, oh, we're already in contract with this other CBD company. Dang, just missed it.

There's enough out there, man. Do you have an approach to find these sites, to vet them out?

So one thing I started doing recently is like, you know, going beyond like page one of Google, I'm going like deeper into Google to like, you know, find some of these sites that are a little less established but still have a good amount of traffic in kind of hopes that, you know, they make a connection there. And, you know, rather than these like, you know, page one sites, you know, I think one site I reached out or was going to reach out to his mind. Bodygreen. It's a pretty popular, like, wellness site, but their minimum ad spends like $25,000. It's like, no, not right now.

No. I like your approach. If you go kind of laterally, again, you know, you're thinking outside of the norm because I bet they're getting hit up daily, kind of like our podcast. And they're just probably getting pitch after pitch so they can demand the higher pricing too.

Oh yeah, yeah.

That's interesting.

So as far as the list building, I want to touch on some of the ways you're doing your email list building as well. Do you have any sort of strategies or tactics or something that's working real well for you right now to actually grow that list?

So the one that's working the best, the highest quality list I've generated is just like organic traffic coming to the site, just having a pop up that collects emails, like, that's been like the highest. Those have been the highest value emails that I've gotten. And I've gotten other email lists. So we did, we did it. So I did kind of like a little Facebook hack a while back where we got some, got some ads running on Facebook with CBD giveaway. We generated about 700 emails from that. They're like pretty low quality. I've purged, you know, probably 90% of that list already. And we just did another campaign with another podcast called Ready Yeti. And so they just did a huge giveaway with all these other brands and we got like 7,000 emails from that. And so I'm starting to drip on that list, you know, hasn't been that effective yet. I've gotten a little bit of revenue from it, but not, not a ton. And so just kind of just experimenting a lot of different things. And so this other piece with the bike rumor I mentioned where the reader survey, it's going out next week, is going to be an email collection tool. So all the email, all the people that participate in the survey for the giveaway, like, I'm getting their email. So, you know, just doing, experimenting with the different ways to collect emails because obviously we can't do it on Facebook or Google. But there are other avenues. You just got to kind of find them.

Yeah, we've actually kind of seen the same thing with giveaway type concepts where we would try to give away something that we think is relevant to our audience. But then you just get, you know, what ends up happening is you get people that are like, ooh, I really want this. And for me to have a better chance to win, I need to go tell as many people as I can. So they're telling their mom and their sister and their best friend who don't, who aren't in the market for that stuff. But you're getting those people on their list because you're just trying to create a contest, right. So you're getting, you know, maybe 10% really, really relevant people and then 90% of their friends and family who they're leveraging to try to win the contest.

Right, right.

Yep, exactly.

How about with email? Because we're big on segmentation and you can have a bigger list, but then you have these little side segments that depending on whatever you're talking about, do you do that with your emails?

Yes, I've started to do that pretty recently. There's an app called Glue and so we use that. It's basically E commerce tracking. So I can track all my E commerce sales and.

I can segment my customers that way so I can pull list. So one thing I've done, so like these customers that have come from the podcast you know, I'll hit them up with an email, like, a couple months after their first order and, you know, send them a message. Sometimes it's a discount. Sometimes it's just, you know, reach back. Reaching back out to them. And I'm emailing my customers that are getting close to, like, the. The lapse date, you know, where they. Where they're needing to purchase again. And I'm emailing my customers who haven't purchased in three months as well, you know, and that's helping, you know, generate revenue as well, because they're like, oh, yeah, I need some more cbd or, you know, and I'm also kind of including in that email, I'm offering to help them if maybe, you know, they weren't getting the results they wanted to. And if they, you know, if they want a little bit of help, you know, I'm happy to help them.

So.

Yeah. So, you know, doing some segmentation just through, you know, from the E Commerce tracking that's kind of letting me, you know, pull out different customers and, you know, kind of drip different emails on them.

That's. Dude, I think it's great to just, like, hit those customers, especially since it's a recurring thing. I think once you've. And you might have already known it, and we don't need numbers or anything, but, like, once, you know, that value per subscriber on your email list, it just becomes so fun because it's like a fun little math game. This is what Matt and I will do, you know, once you figure out, all right, what's the cost? You know, what's the cost? I'm willing to pay. And then you just like, it's a freaking cranking machine, man. If you can, especially with subscription, like, you have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So how are you. How do you know which of these marketing channels are the most effective? How are you tracking that? Like, how do you. How are you going to know after this episode goes live that these people came as a result of this episode?

So we'll probably do a coupon code or something like that just to make sure we know that they came from the site. Because I haven't gone as far as set up specific landing pages yet. Eventually, I'll probably add that in down the road, but right now I'm just mainly tracking it through coupon codes.

Gotcha.

Cool. That's good enough to start at least.

You don't necessarily even need to do separate landing pages. You could kind of accomplish what you want using, like, UTM codes and redirects, which is what we do. We actually, this is a little behind the scenes for our listeners, but when we go on other people's podcasts, we always give a unique URL. We'll say, you know, go to hustleflowchart.com.

And that's one thing I've thought about doing, too, because I have a handful of URLs that I can use to repoint to him daddies.

But all of those links that we give out, they all go to the exact same page. However, we have a little line of code on there that reads the UTM codes, and it actually changes the content of the page when they land on it, the headline. So, yeah, so when somebody lands on the page, it'll say, hey, thanks so much for listening to us on the, you know, Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Here's the special bonus we promised you, but it's the same landing page for everybody. It's just dynamically changing out that every time somebody lands.

I heard you guys talking about that on a recent episode, and it's like, man, I got to start implementing that as well eventually.

Yeah. If you have any questions, reach out. It's pretty powerful because we're making new pages every time. We're like, there's got to be a smarter.

Oh, yeah, it was a pain in the butt. We actually, literally every show we went on, we made a brand new landing page for them. And then I was like, ooh, I found a little tweak that'll make me 90% more efficient with this.

Exactly.

Yeah.

But that's cool. That's awesome.

It's all about those little tweaks and hacks, man.

Yeah. So referral partners. That's another one. Because I know some of these notes he sent us is brand ambassador programs. How do you do that? Because I saw in here that you don't give away free products, and you kind of vet them out, which is really cool, because you don't want to discount your stuff. How does this work for just how does that ambassador program work for you guys?

Yeah, so I'll just kind of start off by just letting you know, kind of some of my failures within my previous business. It's like we, you know, we probably had 20 to 40ambassadors at any given moment with bearded brothers, but we were always giving them free product. And so, like, there was, like, almost no incentive or motivation for them to, like, you know, push it on their friends or anything like that, because they're just getting free product. But with this, I decided I'm gonna take a Different approach. I'm gonna give them discount. So if they really want this, like, they're still gonna have to buy it, but they're not getting it for free. And plus, this is the type of thing it's like, you know, my margins are decent. So, like, even if I give them a pretty healthy discount, I still make a little bit on every sale. But at the same time, the price point of this, at least this early on, it's like I can't afford to give them a $75 bottle of CBD oil. And so just making them have more buy in, I think has been really effective. And I've given them the option so they get a coupon code that they can share with their friends and I'll give them a 10% commission on the sale and they can either use that to buy more product or I'll send them a check. But so far all of my ambassadors have just, you know, been applying it to, you know, more product.

That's cool. I like that. I was going to ask you about the. If there's an affiliate component to this all or if it's just.

Yeah, definitely. I've got the affiliate component going on mainly just tracking it through the coupon code right now. This is the plugin I have. Does not work that great.

So then finally, Instagram was the other one that you mentioned. And Instagram was something that Joe and I about, I don't know, maybe three, four months ago, we decided, let's go all in on Instagram for about a month or, you know, 60 days or so, see what kind of results we can get from Instagram. And we actually, we grew our Instagram following to like 16,000 subscribers or something like that over that, that window. And we still managed to generate practically no traffic from it. So I'm kind of curious what sort of tips or what things have worked for you in that Instagram space.

Yes, what seems to be working for driving the traffic over to the site from Instagram is actually sharing. Like, you know, like when I post content, like that's when I see a lot of the traffic spikes to the site is when I post in Instagram about a blog post that I put up. Like, I can literally be sitting here on my chat app and like, and once I post the Instagram, I just see the influx of traffic coming into the site and they're all going to that. My URL I put in my link tree for that blog post. So it's like that caught their attention and that brought them over to the blog to Read that article.

Gotcha. Do you do anything with. So besides just, you know, dropping the link and that? Are there hashtags involved? Like, do you have kind of like a process that you do for.

Yeah, so I got. So I'll do. So I got like a set. So I have an Evernote with like a few different sets of hashtags, you know, depending on which audience, you know, I'm wanting that to go to. And I'll just kind of copy and paste out of those preset hashtags. Then occasionally I'll go in there and tweak a few of them or add some. But it makes it easier since I have that Evernote with those hashtags already built out. It's easy. I just copy and paste them in there.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And then, like, the actual, like, images that you're posting in there, obviously you can put whatever sort of content you want in that description, but what kind of images are you using that seem to grab attention to get people to want to go and click over to your site?

Yeah, so my. So my niche market is trail runners. I mean, just because that's kind of the background, you know, I come from. So, you know, a lot of my content is, you know, centered around, you know, my target audience and trail runners. You know, I just did an article recently, you know, interviewed a couple of my ambassadors. It's just a picture of the two of them, you know, running in the forest, you know, with a little, you know, text headline about what the blog post is about. You know, I called it, I think a couple that runs together, stays together, and used all my trail running hashtags and got a lot of traffic from that. So just kind of doing things like that that are kind of targeted to my specific niche and try to make the content and the images centered around that.

That makes sense. I mean, this is what I like about what you have going on, where a lot of CBD companies, or just companies in general, try to go wide for almost everyone and they just get mixed into that whole mix. But that's why I feel like you're on the fringes and you're tapping all these different areas that CBD companies aren't really living in. Yeah, but obviously.

And that's one thing I kind of learned from my previous business, too. It's like, you know, if you want to succeed, it's like, you got to have. You got to have a pretty tight niche. And it's really easy with a product like CBD for people to be like, well, no, this is for everybody, though. It can help so many people. It's like. Well, it's true. If you look at something, you know, like, you know, bearded brothers bars or a Clif bar, it's like, you know, their target market is, you know, outdoor enthusiasts. You know, there's healthy moms and kids and, you know, busy business people, you know, consuming the same product, but they still have that specific niche that they're focused and targeted after.

Yeah, it's like Cliff, you know. Yeah, they started really very niched down like that and obviously got a lot more mainstream. So then they have all that stuff that came out with kids. But yeah, it's not like they started that way. They definitely didn't do that. Yeah, yeah, it's cool.

Yeah. And in this space right now, it's so noisy. I mean, they're literally probably, you know, 2,000 CBD oil companies out there. So, like, you have to do something to stand out. If you're just trying to appeal to everybody, you're gonna appeal to nobody 100%.

That's right.

Now, the last kind of little topic that I want to get into before we kind of start with our wrap up questions is I'm kind of curious about, like the sort of operations of the actual business itself, like, how are you actually producing the CBD oil or how does all of that kind of stuff work in your business? Just kind of out of curiosity.

So we have a manufacturer out of Longmont, Colorado, and so. And they also own the farm. So it's a family owned farm and the whole process is vertically integrated. So they grow the hemp, they produce the hemp, they bottle it, they do everything. And so they do the entire production process for me and like, I handle everything else.

Gotcha.

So you're moving closer soon.

So what does your average day to day look like? I know it's gonna vary. You know, obviously some days you're gonna have podcasts and some days you're gonna be kind of heads down, probably working on the site or something. But what is, what is kind of your average day to day look like running a business like this?

Yeah, so I kind of, I have, you know, very structured days. It's like, you know, I have a wife and three kids and it can. And I work from home a lot, so I can get pretty chaotic. So like, I have specific days scheduled. So I have like day scheduled or I'm writing the blog post for the week, have another day scheduled where I'm doing the video content for the week. And it's like, you Know, I, you know, sometime throughout the day, I got to get an Instagram post up. And so there's certain things, like the main things, such as, like, my blog posts in my, you know, shooting my videos, those have, like, scheduled times where they always happen. And in the rest of the day is kind of spent, you know, I'll kind of have about at least an hour a day where I'm kind of just kind of focused on strategy and thinking through different things. And my Fridays, I'm going to start a new thing on Friday here pretty soon where that's going to be kind of like a big strategic planning session day. Because for the most part, it's like, this business is pretty easy to run with just me so far. And so as long as I schedule my time where I'm doing these things, because early on, I was just kind of trying. I was trying to do them just whenever it's like, okay, so half the time I wasn't getting a blog post in a week. Half the time I wasn't getting video. So it's okay. These have to have scheduled times. And once I actually schedule those in, all the other things were just kind of like, you know, I fit them in whenever they could, but I schedule the really important things. And recently, though, I unfortunately had to take shipping back in house just because my, you know, my drop shipper was kind of dropping the ball with being timely and not sending out the orders correctly a lot of times. So it's like I brought it in house temporarily until I can find another solution. So that's taking up a couple hours of my day three times a week right now. But eventually that's going to be out from under me again, and I'll be just solely focused on kind of the marketing into things.

Gotcha. So do you actually keep inventory at your house and you're shipping it out when the orders come in?

Right now I actually got it stored at a friend's house. So my family and I, we live in our RV full time and, you know, try to travel around quite a bit. That's what's going to make the move to Colorado pretty easy.

Oh, man, you just opened up a whole new rabbit hole that I can see Joe wanting to go down, but I don't think we have time for.

On this episode, I won't do it. I'll hold myself back.

Just.

I just imagine this big RV now just busting at the seams of cbd, shit flying everywhere.

We thought about when we first got it in. It's like we thought about storing it at the rv, but it was going to be everywhere. It's like, man. Luckily I had a friend, you know where we're staying right now lives downtown. It's like. So that's what I'm. I'm sitting up as an apartment right now talking to you guys, so.

Yeah, that's cool, man. Yeah, we have a lot of buddies in Austin, so that's should probably connect you with some of them.

But think about or connect up next time we're in Austin too.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. This is cool, man. Yeah. The fact that it's just you. I didn't realize that because that was going to be one of my questions. And it's like it's literally just you running this thing and there is.

Yep, at the moment it is.

That's amazing, man. It just seems very highly leveraged and you're doing a lot of marketing, but the fact that you're time blocking, it sounds like. Are there any mechanisms that, you know, like some tools or, you know, for this blocking your time? Is it as simple as just putting it on the calendar every week and doing and sticking to it?

It's as simple. It's as simple putting on the calendar and it's like, you know, those, the main things like, you know, my blog writing day and my video content day, like those stay the same. Like that's like, you know, it's like scheduling a meeting. It's like that's going to happen all the time. It's like it can't be moved. And so if something does happen, like say an emergency happens, it's like, you know, I'll adjust and I'll move it somewhere else.

Sure.

That's cool, man. I think that's the. Everything that I'm like getting from you is like, just keep it simple. It's very, like, it's very, you know, it's consistent, but it's simple.

Yeah. And consistency has been, I think, the biggest driver in the success of my business so far. Just like being consistent with, you know, producing Instagram content, writing blogs, doing videos, and like just being consistent in all those things. It's been like just gradually slowly moving the needle up and up and up. Yeah.

So last kind of question in this vein, but what's your tech stack? Like, what do you use to for your E commerce platform? What do you use for your email marketing? You know, what's the tech stack of all the various tools that make this thing work? This machine keep running?

Yep. So we use. So Woocommerce is our back End. So, you know, I was familiar with Shopify going into this. I wanted to use that but they were kind of hesitant. They didn't want to take CBD. So it's like, well, got to use WooCommerce. But I've grown to really love it because there's so many like plugins and different features that can go along with it. So we're just using mailchimp for e commerce. We're using glue for tracking the e commerce data and sales. And that's how I'm able to segment my email lists out from customers purchasing patterns. And I'm about to be upgrading my.

Not mailchimp. What did I just say?

Glue?

No, not glue. Dang it. I'm going blank. AppSumo. So using them to collect the emails. I'm using them to collect the emails on the site and they have a thing now where kind of like we were talking about where I could put in. So say it's a customer coming from a certain website. I can have a special message that's just for them and then they'll also get tagged as well. So if I click the email from them and they didn't purchase so they're still going to get tagged in my system from you know that they came from that site or something like that.

Dude, that's simple. That's it. That's really all you need. And then from there it's just content and marketing.

Yep, yep. Yeah, man. I've started using, you guys have mentioned, I think ahrefs. I just recently got a subscription to that so I can up my content creation game.

Yeah, I was actually thinking of that when you were talking about SEO. I'm like, okay, there's probably some gaps that you know, like some low hanging fruit. That's what we call it. So set up the filter in there. Look for page two and three for your own content.

Oh, and I just found a great one too. So like Amazon. So like Amazon, Like Amazon and cbd, they don't mix. Like anything you see on Amazon is not CBD oil. It probably gets about 6,000 searches a month and it's got an easy to rank for content. So I got some content pieces that are about to go live for that.

Very cool that Ahrefs tool, man. Yeah, that and then spotting some. Look at your competitors. Throw that in the URL up top and then see what they're ranking for. And if it's a low hanging fruit. Yeah, you're going to have fun with that, man. Excited. It's like if you didn't have that. I'm like, I'm about to do an audit for you just because I really want to help you.

Yeah.

Sweet. Is there anything that we didn't touch? I mean, we can go down so many other rabbit holes, but specifically around.

CBD or, like, your business model. I'm curious if there's. Yeah. Is there anything that we probably should bring up that we haven't come to yet?

Man, I think we covered it all. I'm just kind of glancing over my notes here myself too, and I think we covered pretty much everything.

Sweet.

Cool, man. Well, where do you see this in the future for yourself? Do you see you bringing in a team and you're gonna go to Colorado?

Definitely. Yeah. It's like my goal is eventually to kind of bring on some, like, content creators, so it's not. So I'm not the only one, you know, generating content, even on kind of, like the video side of things. You know, eventually we want to start having a little more fun with the content I create around video rather than. Because right now I'm mainly creating, like, companion pieces for the blogs that I'm writing because it's easier. It's okay. I've got the content written. I can transfer that to video. And eventually I want to kind of go a little bit deeper and get some more niche type videos targeted towards my audience, you know, centered around trail running and things like that. And I do some more fun stuff than just, you know, educational and stuff like that.

Yeah. Bring the brand out there more. The lifestyle.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. You'll dig on that. I think that'll just be like. It'll be good fit for your brand as a whole as it is.

Yeah.

Sweet.

Cool.

Do you have any. Are there any books that you find yourself referring to often or recommending to people often or, you know, just a great resource of a book that you just love.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So we talked about this offline a little bit, but, like, you know, profit first. I think Mike Michalowicz is author. I think you guys have been on this podcast. That's how I heard about you guys.

Yeah. I actually looked you up. I was like, how did he find us? And you were tagged with profit first. I was like, oh, that's where he came from.

Yeah, we've had Mike on this show too. So there's a past episode with him as well.

Yeah.

But very cool.

Yeah, but it's. His whole system is all about, you know, running a profitable business. And, you know, coming from a business where we struggle to Be profitable. And it's like we're always, you know, waiting for that next payment to come in. It's like, you know, I'm growing this business, you know, without outside investors. It's like I'm funding the growth of the business from within the company. And it was all with the help from this book, Profit First. He teaches you just a simple system of setting up different bank accounts and allocating your funds appropriately. And I've been paying myself from day one too. So it's been a phenomenal book for starting this business and my previous business. I tried to implement it in there, but it was so far gone. It's like, was this never going to happen? But starting this new business from scratch, it's been amazing.

That's a great book. Have you read Clockwork yet?

No, I have not.

Yeah, Clockwork is his newest book. It's so good. I mean, I think it's the best book he's put out so far.

Definitely.

I'm definitely going to check that out then.

Yeah, it's probably perfect timing for you too if you start adding more people into the mix.

Yeah, it's all about systems and automating your business more so that it runs.

Definitely going to check that out.

Basically in that book he basically says, what is it like 18 months out or something?

I believe so.

It's basically the whole book. The concept of the book is how you can go and take a four week vacation without having to check into your business at all. Like completely tune out of your business. And then he kind of gives you like an 18 month roadmap to get to the point where you can check out your business and not even touch it for an entire month.

Oh, sweet.

I like that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like a good test for kind of you mentally too, because that's business owners who want to just like get in the middle of stuff, you know, and tweak some things.

Oh yeah. I mean, hey, I'll throw out one more book too. I think you guys have mentioned it before, but deep work.

Oh yeah.

You know, Cal Newport, like that's been revolutionary for me. Just I finished it a week ago and I've disconnected most of my social media except for the business like this past week. And I'm already seeing a difference in just like my mindset and my ability to focus and like that's been great.

I think someone just recommended that to us. Yeah, we haven't read that yet, but I remember that being super empowered. I forget which guest it was, but I just had Matt Write it on the board. I'm like, I think we should get that.

Like, no, yeah, do it.

Sweet, sweet. So HempDaddies.com, right? Is that the best place to. That's right. Send folks anywhere else, Instagram or anything like that?

Yeah, if you go there, you'll be able to find us on our other channels as well. And can we go in and throw out a coupon code for the listeners too? If they want to try the product, that'd be great. Yeah, let's do the coupon code. Hustle and Flow. All one word.

Hustle and Flow.

Cool.

Wheat. That's right.

We'll go ahead and make sure we mention that at the front of the episode too.

So that. And in the show notes and all that.

Yeah. So you know that they're coming from us.

I think you're the first, like coupon code. Most people just have pages that are like, eh, I like it.

Yeah.

Hustle and flow@HempDaddies.com and what does that coupon get them?

So did I not say 10% off and free shipping?

You may have said. And I may have totally blanked, but cool. Now I know for sure.

Sweet. Well, yeah, man. And what's a good. Just cause you have a lot of products and all that. You said the tinctures are a good start. Is there a specific product they should go for first?

Yeah, I generally recommend starting with like the. The extra strength formula just because it gives you a little more latitude to experiment with your dosages. It's like if you get the lowest strength, it's like you're going to go through the bottle really fast. But if you kind of start with that middle strength, it's going to give you more wiggle room to experiment with what dosage is going to work for you.

Got it. Perfect. That's good because I want to try. Yeah, so that's the one I'll get. Right on, man. Caleb, you've been awesome. It's been a great talk.

Awesome. Yeah, I've really enjoyed it.

All right, have a good one, man.

All right, you too.

Thanks.

Thanks everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team. Team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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