Casey Zeman — How A Dad Of 3 Young Kids Grows His Online Brand And Business

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

What's up? We are back for a fabulous show.

Of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. I think we should just do our easy jazz voices for this intro.

No, I said voices, not easy jazz beatboxing.

I'm gonna do my creepy voice again that I took from what's his face again. Jeff Goldblum. Jeff Goldblum. Yeah. Dude, if you haven't watched his YouTube videos, what's the hiking? Hiking with Kevin Nealon. Yes. Kevin Nealon and Jeff Goldblum. It's like they ended up hiking, like, in the dark, because I think they started really late because Jeff Goldblum was running very late.

This is literally two episodes in a row where you rant about Jeff Goldblum.

He's freaking hilarious. I think he's just an interesting human, and he just. He enjoys everything in life, and I think there's something to learn from that.

Oh, there's something to learn from everything.

Just try to do the Jeff Goldblum voice.

Just. I don't. I haven't. I haven't listened to him as recently as.

It involves a lot of.

Yeah.

Some.

Gyrating or. Don't gyrate anything, actually.

With me.

With you. Thank you. All right, moving on.

All I think about is Jeff Goldblum in. In Jurassic park, because I've seen it fairly recently.

Did you. Yeah. Did he do a lot of.

We actually showed the kids Jurassic park what they think.

I don't remember.

I think they might have, like, went off and played Legos, like, halfway through.

The original, right?

Yeah, the original.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How many were there?

Like, I don't know, 19 or something now.

I don't know. Yeah, there was one in San Diego, and I think that was, like, the worst one.

There was, like, three or four before they started doing, like, Jurassic World stuff. I can't remember if there was three or four. There's been two Jurassic Worlds, and there were. I think there was three original, so I think they're on five now.

Yeah, I dropped off, actually, when it was, like, the San Diego one. It's kind of different now. I've never seen no dinosaurs here. Yeah. Southern accent. Yeah. I don't know.

You know who's not a dinosaur? Casey Zeman, maybe. Do you like my transition? Well, I mean, he's never dinosaur.

He's never told us anything otherwise other than being human. But, yeah, he. He Operates like a. Not like a dinosaur, because he's no Casey Zeman.

He's not even what a dinosaur operates like.

Casey's not a dinosaur, damn it.

No, he's the. He's actually the founder of Easy Webinar, a tool that we use running our own automated webinars and things. It's a great tool, and we're gonna actually kind of talk.

No, it's actually a badass tool. If you're doing webinars, that's your tool. Sure.

One up my adjectives. Thank you.

Raising the energy here, because legitimately, that thing is absolutely amazing.

So here's the crazy thing about Casey. Casey literally went from no kids to three kids in like, what, like a year and a half period or something like that.

And you wonder, how is that possible? He'll explain.

Yeah. So we actually wanted. We were very curious about how that whole dynamic is of, like, he's entrepreneur. His wife's an entrepreneur. They brought three kids into the household.

And he runs a very successful business with a big team.

And how do you balance all that? So we. We really deep dive into, like, the balance of being a dad of three kids and running two businesses as a family and how that dynamic works and how the daily routines have to happen to. To make all this work in his business.

And some really cool stuff, Instagram stuff as well. That was a big topic. He's blowing up on Instagram, and.

It'S a personal brand thing. But he breaks into why he does that, his strategies, some easy takeaways you could do from this conversation. And then back to actually kind of figuring out the Easy Webinar stuff. We touch on that, too. The new stuff that's happening. Growth hacks. He laid out five growth hacks that he's using for that business this year and explained how they have this roadmap and KPI. There's different indicators that keeps their team on point as he's like. He has this very structured schedule, which is actually a benefit, which you'll learn.

Yeah.

And it's pretty cool. It's a great conversation. Casey's a good friend of ours. He was on the show a year and a half ago or so. And so if you don't know who Casey is, the backstory's over there. I'll link it all up in the show notes.

We actually, for Easy Webinar, we use Easy webinar ourself, which is why we promote it. We only promote stuff and talk about stuff that we use. But we actually created a website over at grabeasywebinar.com and over on that site, we've actually posted content about ways that we're using it, that other people are using it. We compare it to the other webinar platforms that are out there, like the competition and why we like this over the competition. And we wrote a whole bunch of content and, like, training tutorials and things like that all around easy webinar. So definitely check out grabeasy webinar.com that is where you will find our affiliate link, but it's also where you'll find all of where we talk about easy webinar. So check that out. And we should dive in with Mr. Casey Zman.

Casey. Z Man. Let's do this. Casey, you're back.

I am back.

Round two.

It's been a year and a half or more.

Yeah, we actually just looked it up before we jumped on, and it was a year and a half the last time we chatted.

Is that right?

Yes.

Oh, it's a whole year and a half.

Yeah. Since we chatted on the podcast, maybe a little less. I think it was November.

So, like, it was November.

It was like, a year and four months ago, 2017.

I mean, where does time go? And, like, what has happened since then?

A lot.

Your family kind of exploded.

I was gonna say. How old is your daughter right now?

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. She's 2.

She's 2. Okay, so you had your daughter already, but now you've got two more kids since the last time we chatted?

Yes.

My two sons finally came back from Haiti probably four months after I talked to you guys. So that was in November. We. I went to Haiti to bring him back home last February. So last month, a year ago, basically based on when we're making this podcast session. But, yeah, like, it's been. So they've been with us now for a year. A little over a year.

How long was that process? So when did you start the process?

2014.

Wow.

Oh, my God. Yeah.

And you picked them up in 2018.

We put our envelope in the mail to start the adoption process and a check to the agency we were working with at the time. Yeah.

Wow.

That's when it all went down.

That's wild. So, I mean, everything's settled now, so that's cool.

Yeah.

I mean, it was a tumultuous experience, like, the entire process, which I probably talked to you guys about, because we are at the end of it. And I'm actually curious what I was. How my. What my energy level was at at the time, because it was like, I.

Think you always put a good front up. You know, you're a good forward facing person. Yeah, I don't think people would really notice the difference.

Just the whole like, instant family thing. In a very short window, you went from no kids to three kids. And that's pretty intense.

Yeah, I mean, it was. That's. That's pretty crazy. Yeah, I mean, we. And it's like not. You don't get prepared for something like that. You just are thrown in and you're like, yep. And then you create a routine around it. And so now we are very scheduled. And that's why, of course, like, this session was, you know, kind of crazy, because I have one kid that's being driven to gymnastics. My other kid's in school and the other one is laying down for a nap. And, you know, even with full time help, someone has to be around also. So it's like, it's kind of nuts. But it's okay because, like, we're pretty scheduled up and, you know, but we live and die by the schedule. That's pretty much it.

Well, I mean, that's a good actual place to start. We actually, we went into your backstory in the previous episode, so we're gonna make sure we link that up below this episode. So if you want to hear Casey's backstory and how he became an entreprene and you know, how he was doing acting and then shifted into all the cool stuff that he's doing now, then YouTube stuff, all that kind of stuff. We talk about all that in the previous episode we did. So I want to jump into. One of the newer questions we like to start to ask guests is actually about their daily routines and kind of like what their day to day looks like. So, you know, based on what you just said, it's a good transition. What does your day to day look like? What does a day in the life of Casey Zieman look like?

Well, so every day is obviously slightly different because my wife is an entrepreneur as well. She has a Pilates studios in Los Angeles. While I have, you know, I have my office not in the house, but there's, there is a. I have a, you know, garage converted into an office basically. And so every day starts off with basically waking up at 6:30 when the kids start rolling out of bed. And on. One of our kids goes to elementary school five times, you know, five days a week. The other one goes to preschool three days a week. And then our daughter is kind of too young to do either of those two, so she doesn't, she doesn't do that. And we have a full time nanny. So we get up at like 6:30 or so and we either, we, whichever kid, whichever kids are awake, we kind of go and help them because our oldest son has to get ready for school. So we go and make lunches and breakfasts for them and pretty much my day is designed towards getting them ready to go to school or getting them ready for whatever their plan is for that day. And then the nanny shows up at like some days, like Tuesdays and Thursdays, it's at 7:30. I mean I, again, if I showed you what my calendar looked like, you guys would be like what the. Because it's like literally like I am so bad with my own scheduling. Like you can ask anybody. Like I screw up schedules nowadays a bit more because I have so much less time, right? And so like my window is tighter even with a schedule. Like that has back to back stuff in my calendar. But most of it is based around children, right? So it's like so we get them. So I will probably take our oldest to school and so that's at 8 o' clock and that's like on a Monday. So I'll just do a typical Monday. Monday I take my son to school at around 8am Our nanny shows up at 8:30 or so and she's there with, with our daughter while our other son is taken to school at 9am so after my son is dropped off at school, I go to a coffee shop, I get a kombucha, I get a coffee and I do just some emails and some touch base with the team before 9am, right. And then I drive my other son to his school at 9am I come back into my office and I do a two hour meeting with my team. Basically at that time we cover everything. So on Mondays we do product, that's more of a product meeting where we talk about the product growth, all sorts of stuff. And we have a dev meeting on Wednesdays that is also about two hours. We try to devote those times to easy webinar meetings because we're a virtual team and that's when we get those done. After that, after the two hour meeting, I may have some other meetings lined up. But typically what I try to do is have a block of time where I can devote my energy towards some sort of action. Whether it's rewriting a webinar or whether it's looking at our funnels or whether it's talking to one of our, you know, content strategy people, you know, Whatever the case may be, I devote the next couple hours to that.

And then I get lunch, I walk my dog. Because I have to walk the dog around the block as well.

Yes, yes. And then when I'm done with that, I'm back in my office by 2:00 clock.

To make sure that I have my daughter who's napping so I can be here for her while my nanny goes to pick up our sons, our other two kids. And so I'm back in the office at 2 and typically at that time, I am talking maybe to my sales guy and figuring out. See how the coaching is doing and just checking in periodically with different actions. But that's basically a day in the life. Tuesdays, I'll try to hit the gym, you know, and so I probably get to the gym maybe two to three times a week.

Do you do a lot of Pilates?

I actually don't have a lot of time to do to go to my wife's Pilates classes anymore, but I want to. I need to.

Pilates is crazy.

I don't know if you guys saw on Instagram, I'm doing this interview with a guy named Justin who has. He's a dad of three and he's from Ohio, and he. I know him from Lewis Howes, Mastermind.

He's coming to my wife's studio in la. He's gonna have three cameras set up, and we're doing an interview all in a plank for five minutes.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. It's gonna be crazy.

I'm not sure I could even do a plank for five minutes, let alone interview in the process.

Yeah, like, he's gonna interview me and I'm just gonna. We're gonna be holding the plank for five minutes.

That's so cool. I want to watch that.

Yeah. I'm not sure if, like, you can very, you know, can move around on the plank or go down to your forearms, onto your hand. Your hands or what? I'm. I'm hoping so because, like, you know, I've been so. I've been trying to. At the gym. I'm bringing it up because you say Pilates. I've been trying to self, you know, try to be self. Motivate myself to do more planks and core stuff.

Right, right. You're fighting off that dad bod, too. You know, you don't.

That's right. That's right. Yeah.

Casey has the least dad bod of any dad I know.

He's always had massive guns.

And I have to, you know, otherwise, because, you know, I Have a sweet tooth. So I could go crazy on just eating a bunch of like things that I should not be eating and it just could spiral out. So I have to try to be on top of it.

So I'm curious about prior to kids, Casey, and your schedul to now. Like obviously you love your kids, but in terms of scheduling, like do you prefer one or the other like where you were?

Oh man. Well, I noticed that I don't have as much time to be. I think I mentioned this to you guys when I saw you in San Diego, but I don't have as much time to be in my head as I used to. Like, I think I was always like, I'd find that I was just filling action, filling time with silly unproductive action.

And I find that now I may do that, but it's like really short. And then I try to have productive action on top of it. And then I always noticed that I would beat myself up for having that non productive action and I would spend time beating myself up. So now I just don't even have time to beat myself up. And when those moments occur and I just realized overall I'm less in my head about things in general. Like I have to just let more things go. I have to rely more on my team. And there's good and bad to that. Giving up control.

Is difficult for people that are control freaks and I consider myself one of them, especially if you care a lot about how you are portrayed or what you're doing for people. So I care about that. I care about the continuity around that. And oftentimes I have to rely on my team and the people that work with me to be able to portray that or even put that out there in the best way possible. And so it's allowed me to do more of that, to be able to trust a bit more.

I feel like I've been working less this year with how. With all the kids home than I. Than I ever have. And maybe it's just because I just don't have as much time to actually like I'm not at 5 o', clock, I'm not sitting in front of my computer working. I can't. Sometimes I'm done by 3:30, you know, on two of the days. So it's like, I mean, again, yeah, so I just don't find as much time, especially with like.

Yeah.

And over the weekends I'm not working at all.

Like, I'm like, I mean, you know, I've got two kids and just. I can definitely relate. I Feel like having kids makes me much more intentional about every single action. Right? Like, I'm not just. I. People, like, give me crap about not responding to Facebook messages or. Hey, did you see that post on Facebook yesterday? No, dude, I haven't been on Facebook in, like, four days. You know, like, I'm just so much more intentional when I'm at my computer. I have, like, this set of things I need to do, and I'm going to be at my computer as long as it takes me to do those, and then I'm done. Because I've got family stuff to deal with. I've got kids. I've got. You know, my kids are both in school now. One's in kindergarten, one's in preschool. So same, actually. Same. Pretty much same thing. My. My daughter is in elementary school, which starts at 8. My son's in kindergarten three days or preschool three days a week, which starts at 9. So we're kind of juggling, getting kids around. But now both of my kids are in softball and T ball. My daughter's in softball, my son's in T ball. So that adds, like, new complexity of, like, running kids around and stuff, too. And it just.

Is that during the week or over the weekend?

Yes, all of the above.

In fact, Joe came to my son's T ball game on Tuesday. So, I mean, like, it's. It's during the week and weekends. It's like, yeah, it's. There's pretty much something going on with one of their sports teams almost every day of the week. It's pretty crazy, and it just forces you to beat. So intentional. It's like, I've got these things I need to get done today, and then I got to get away from that and go help over in this side of my life. And so I can definitely relate to that.

Well, I have an interesting. And the reason I kind of asked this is we're hopefully going to have a kid soon ourselves, but we've fostered. So I've had that routine, this feeling you're talking about, but now it's been interesting because it's been about six months where that last girl we had is gone. So I've almost found myself slipping a little back into what you just described is like, these little random time wasters that you kind of unconsciously do, but then you beat yourself up. Or, like, I notice I stay up a little later now, you know, and wake up a little later. And maybe it's just the natural thing, but, yeah, with kids, like, I actually liked more because of the Structure.

Yeah, I'll actually stay up late a lot of nights. Every once in a while, like, I'll just be like, heads down, focused on, like, building a landing page or something, you know, And I'll. I'll lose track of time and I'll look up at the time and I'll be like, ah, crap, tomorrow is gonna suck. It's gonna be rough, you know, and like. So you have like a few night, like, maybe like one night a week, I'll stay up really late, and then the next day really sucks because, like, my kids don't let me sleep in, you know, so it's like, I know it's gonna suck, and then that kind of gets me through the rest of the week going to bed at a decent hour.

Yeah, Yeah. I find that's the. I find that that's what I do as well. Like, I'll stay up maybe one night. Like, I really try to be in bed by. I mean, it's like 10:30. I want eight hours. And yeah, Joe, I think you're right. Like, if I had to compare it, I mean, it's. You're at a different point in your life when you're without the kids and with the kids. Right. It's like. So it's like two different things. You're just like, you know, who's to say what's better? Or, you know, you know what I mean? Like, for me, I think that I. Like that I'm not so much in my head for whatever reason, business has been growing even without me having to be so crazy about it. You know what I mean? So.

Dictatory about it, you know what I'm saying?

Totally.

And I think when you have time to obsess and be that dictator, it can, you know, it can. You can make maybe. I don't know, I. Maybe you make choices based on your own anxiety or. And things like that. Where now I try to make choices based on, you know, best use of.

Your time kind of thing.

Best use of my time. But also, like, the fact that I, you know, I think when you. When you also have kids and people that. That, you know, that rely, you know, like. Like, I can't. Like, I have children, I can't. Like, and I know what my expenses are on a monthly basis, and that's ridiculous. And so I know what I need to do to make sure that I cover that. And so, I don't know, I just find that. I mean, all the stakes have been raised to a degree, and you both know this. And so I think that Stakes have been raised, but I'm not working as much. But I'm more intentional with the work that I do.

And your expenses haven't gone down necessarily with three kids either.

Living in Southern California is not a cheap place to live. We all live in Southern California.

In the middle of LA too.

Yeah. Yeah. And school's not cheap and full time help is not cheap. And you know, our children, they eat a lot.

When our boys came home, you know, these boys were from Haiti and they were like literally starving and malnourished and so they have a habit of just eating and eating and eating. One is five, one is four. And my oldest son, he will like eat like 10 hot dogs.

Oh, man.

10 hot dogs for lunch. And it's like, you're like, man, how are you? Like, you have to. I have, I sometimes have to do a belly test. I'm like, look it. Before we eat anymore, I need to do the belly test to see if you're full.

Is that hollow in there?

Yeah. So I'm like tapping it like a drum. See, like, okay, that's too full. Just relax, take a moment. Yeah. Because this hot dog you didn't chew.

I could still feel the shape of it. Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Never heard of this stomach tapping concept.

Yeah, no, it's, it's. I mean, I made it up, but still they think it's like, oh, dad is medically knows what he's talking about.

I mean, it's the same way that like kisses heal things, right?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. They're like, oh, well, dad did the tap, I must be full. But it's really just because they don't have, like, they don't, they don't have like a natural how to stop going on right now.

Yeah. Because for them I'm sure stopping was when the food ran out or survival.

I mean, where they came from.

Yeah. And. Yeah. And so there's still that remnant of that in whatever they're doing. So. But anyway, food is ridiculous, it's costs. And I was going to be proud of it.

Yeah. Well, one last thing I was going to say on this whole conversation was another thing that for me, and I'm almost positive it's going to be the same for you and I know for Joe as well, is having kids has forced us to rely on other people.

Like, how do you know that's where I was going to go?

I didn't know that's where you're going to go, but it's forced us rely on other people. Right. Like you can no longer Be that solopreneur that's like the hero of the business that needs to kind of try to get everything done yourself. You just can't anymore. You don't have the time anymore. And so I feel like having kids, that was sort of the next evolution was. That was a big catalyst for us going, okay, we can't do this alone. Yeah. Yeah.

So how does that look like. So you mentioned the whole, you know, you have a tendency to really have a controlling or have your finger on the pulse of a lot of things in your business and your software business. Easy webinar. There's a shit ton going on there. I can imagine. Then you have the marketing side of it, design, all this stuff.

I mean, you were kind of forced to rely on the team and you've had it before. But what are some key things you've learned that are just essential? Maybe things that you didn't realize the power of a team or some struggles you had to get through.

So, yeah, I think it's like the team has to all be on the same page too. Everybody has to know what's happening in every other department. So we have to know what's happening in the help desk on a daily basis that will supply the developers enough insight into what fixes we need to do in order to make the process better for clients or customers, while at the same time for operations, we have to know.

If there are things that are going to speed up, you know, any, any type of process. So I think it's like, I think having having the, like the full meetings where everybody comes together gets everybody on the same page. And then I'm not the one that's, that's making the decisions on, on certain things. Like everybody has a KPI that they're responsible for, right? So like if, like in the help desk.

You know, if, if, if someone drops the ball on the help desk and they don't get on with somebody, you know that they have that key performance indicator of not showing up to that ticket or not responding to that ticket can always kind of end up in.

Losing a monthly subscriber, right? Or if someone comes in and says your platform is not easy to use, or like, I can't seem to get, I'm technically stuck. Oftentimes the developers.

Their KPIs are around the simplicity.

In simplicity. The simpler it is, the easier it is. And the more monthly retention we get with a customer, the lifetime value of a customer is higher. Everybody has KPIs, like the developers. We have a lot of different.

Help Desk department, customer support and customer experience and also dev that both of them have a KPI for longevity of subscriber.

While we also have sales who obviously is. How do we increase our.

First touch conversion? They have certain KPIs too. Once we started creating sort of KPIs for the different departments where they have responsibility, but it's not it, but they have ownership around that responsibility, it started to get easier. Right. So they take ownership like, you know, you know what I'm saying? They're responsible for.

Keep for whatever department is responsible for X.

It's like an expectation of that role.

That's what their job is. So once we did that, implemented sort of that experience in where everybody is responsible for and they take ownership of whatever their role is and then we create and define a goal around that. It allowed me to sort of like, just like, you know, sort of be CEO, but also not even maybe a little above CEO where I didn't have to be in the day to day. I have operations that can do that and things like that. So if that does that make sense.

I mean, I think there was some gold in there. Just the fact that everybody on your team has their own KPI that they're responsible for is really, really smart. And I don't think a lot of people treat their business and their team in that way. I don't think a lot of people look at, okay, what KPI can each person own that's going to help increase the, you know, the revenue generation, the retention, the whatever marker you're going after for your business.

And who is the one that. So is this you that tracks them and brings people together and you discuss. Or is that your ops manager, someone on your team?

Yeah. So.

We have a meeting that like me and my partner, we say, all right, let's do our meetings at this time. And then operations comes in and brings everybody together. Like our operations team manager, he kind of does a meeting with the help desk guys to really figure out what's new, what's happening, kind of the pulse of what is directly happening with the customers. So then he can come back into the meetings and say, well, this is what we're noticing in the help desk. Or we're noticing these trends of bugs or trends of customer success or customer.

You know, customer problems, you know, so it's like we, so we, that's how we do it. And then, you know, and then everybody. So we have a meeting that is around, you know, what's happening and then, and then we transition into.

What our.

Goals look like and how we're. How those goals are going.

Right.

Are we on track? Where are we not on track? What are we, you know, cool. Because everything, you know, you, even though you may have, like, this is where we want to get right.

You don't always get there.

Right.

And anything can happen in the process of trying to get there, like, oh, this person got sick and they can't now focus on this particular thing that they were going to do, or, oh, well, we're now in transition. We need to hire this person or that person.

You're basically getting feedback, it sounds like. So all this feedback can help you refine a process or maybe help that person in their role to succeed better.

Yeah.

And I mean, part of, like, because, you know, we have a SaaS business, we are. We're trying to look at growth numbers in a really specific way so that we know where to put our attention into, you know, and so I think a lot of it is like, seeing what we want to do and be in the future, while at the same time, if we don't see the bridge to get there, then we're just kind of doing these leaps. So we have to kind of have these. This bridge of, okay, well, how are we going to actually get to.

This is our number we're trying to hit. Right. All right. Maybe we're at a run rate right here, and how do we get from here to there? So we've put actual pieces in that will be stepping stones to be able to attain that. We're not there yet, but it's like we at least made the bridge so that we can start to get there. We have four or five growth hacks this year that we want, that we're putting into effect that will help us to get to those goals.

And so we knew that we wanted to hit a certain point. And so we're looking at a few factors, but we're not looking at it blind. And I think that's the important thing.

You have a roadmap, more or less?

Yeah, we have a roadmap. We may not be on track as often as we want on that roadmap, but at least we have it so that we can. We can know where we're at least trying to attain, whether it happens in a year, whether it happens in 24 months or more. You know, it's like, I think at least if you have the roadmap, which, that can also change a little slightly, but as long as you have a track of where you're going, I think that's the most important thing, right.

I think it's cool.

Are you willing to share what some of those growth hack ideas are or those stuff that you're kind of keeping tight to the chest right now?

No, no, I mean, I can tell you what we're. What my goal is. My goal is. So I looked at it like, well, how many customers do we want a month? Right? My goal is 1200 customers a month.

Right.

That's the goal I want to strive for. And I want most of those customers to be in our pro level. Even though right now.

30% of our total customer base buys the pro. Right. So what can we do to get more people into the middle package and other higher level packages and then also what are kind of some upsells we can do? So anyway, 1200 customers a month, that would, we would be.

We would be on track for what we want to do with 1200 customers. And so with that idea, I was like, well, how are we going to get there? There's a couple, a few things that we're adding and I think I talked about this with you guys maybe in San Diego. But one is we're working on a free trial. And the free trial that we're working on is not. I think we actually had a free trial, but people would have to come to us to get it. And it was like 30 days, but you'd have to pay for the year, but you'd get it for 30 days free. We're working on a different version. It's not out yet.

We have some things we need to do before we roll out that free trial. One of them is we're working on different UI experience.

The user interface is going to be changing before we do the free trial. But the free trial I think will be able to get more people in to where we can convert from the free into paid.

So that's one initiative we're doing so that we just get more customers and clients that way.

We're ramping up our Facebook ads and focusing more on very specific ads and then cross funneling after like say one or two ads in the front. Right. So we're trying to really get pinpointed with that. We hired a new Facebook person specifically for that.

And let's say so. So we also have some things that we're going to be working on is some rebranding techniques from our homepage. So we're going to be doing a rebranding that is around messaging. Like we're just dialing in the message for the pages that we have.

So Like a home page testing and things like that.

Yeah. So we're going to be doing more with highlighting our customers a bit more on our homepage and we have some content strategy. So another thing is that we're going to do a couple more different things with content marketing strategies where we're highlighting stories of our customers and clients a bit more and putting that out there, highlighting them on the homepage. And that also goes into. We want to be more intentional with our strategic partnerships, this going forward, like affiliates and partnerships. So that we just are, you know, we're on, we're creating great part, great relationships with partners and getting them, you know, recurring revenue. Because we have our.

We'Ve noticed that, you know, over the last year or so, our people, our churn is a lot less than it used to be and could be due to, as I said, some of those KPIs that we've now set up for our team. Could be due to our onboarding process. Could be due to just the fact that when people come in.

They start to build out their webinars and they stick around longer. But I think it has a lot to do with what we're doing to keep outreach going with our customer base. And as such, our partners and affiliates, they can feel confident in the fact that they're going to get paid on a more consistent basis. Right?

We like it already.

Well, I mean, it's funny that you bring that up because we reached out to you, what, maybe a month ago now saying we're noticing things are actually starting to pick up with our promotions of Easy Webinar. We're noticing people to stick around longer. We're noticing it's kind of starting to kick in a little bit from an affiliate perspective of let's chat and kind of brainstorm some ideas that we can be better affiliates. Because we've noticed the same thing about Easy Webinar.

Yeah, that's right. And so because we've noticed that, I mean, even when we do like kind of promotions specifically with people and then it's over a period of time, those people, we don't see a big drop off. We still see a pretty strong retention even when people buy the yearly packages. So. So I think it's due to some of the initiatives we're taking. Maybe also our reputation in the marketplace.

Is pretty strong right now. We have great people that are using our system, that are talking about our system.

And maybe people are just seeing Easy Webinar a bit more. Anyway, going in with more strategic partnerships, like with also SaaS platforms like Teachable is using easy webinar and ConvertKit is using easy webinar. And we saw the optimized press guys in San Diego, they're using easy webinar. So I think that not just partners with influencers because that's a big part of what we'd like to do, but also SaaS platforms as well.

Yeah, we've always said as a software company, just integration, but that's marketing, that's all promotion options.

Yeah.

So like manychat, I want to, I got to reach out to Mikhail because we talked about doing something with manychat and getting into their integrations page. So like there's, there's little things like that and then one other one is actually like outbound sales. So instead of like the whole inbound, you know, funnel stuff, we're talking about having a team that literally does some outreach.

To do outbound sales, like connect with people that might be using our competitors tools and try to get them into strategy calls to see if there's something we can do for them and try to go more into enterprise level, but also very specific marketplaces that we have customers in like service based businesses or we just see a lot of people like online course creators and just things like that. We can get more into.

Doing outbound sales with some email lists that.

We'Re plummeting and putting together.

Very cool, very cool. That makes sense.

I wanted to ask about, did you have something else on this topic?

No, Go for it.

Because I was going to change topics a little bit. I actually wanted to ask you about your Instagram because you know, Joe and I, we've really kind of started to put more focus on Instagram. I kind of feel like that's where most people are going now. It's the social media channel that I prefer to hang out on. Good branding.

Play good branding.

And we've just noticed on Instagram, we've just seen your brand really kind of grow rapidly on Instagram and we were hoping maybe you could give us some insights because we're trying to achieve similar results.

Well, it also just looks great and it looks like you have a formula to it too.

So we're like, there is? Yeah. So I mean again like Instagram is test, test, test. Like you got to just test everything. But it's not just me posting. Like I have a, I have people that are actually posting for me, like growth strategists that are like helping to grow. Like I'm doing a lot of the stories, you know, I try to get into my stories and do a lot of personal connection.

But at the same time post in a consistent way. We look at the times that most people where. Our peak times for posting.

I think mine is 4pm or 6pm Pacific. Typically my guys and or myself will post at that specific time. And if it's not me, it's my guys. They're incidentally are also the guys that shoot some of my videos. So they come in, they'll shoot videos and we'll have content now that we can use for quite a while. And at first we were doing it where we were doing little posts. You know, we would do an Instagram post and then say watch the rest of it on igtv.

And that's how you had to do it. And until recently, which this is interesting because I've seen more engagement this way where you can actually now go into IGTV and upload like under, you know, an under 10 minute video and then there's an option to preview it as a post.

In Instagram. So instead of. So what I'm noticing basically is like before my Instagram TV would get like 30 views or 50 views right now when I do it. And maybe you can, I know you guys are watching, but like when you go into one now, this one has 5,121 views.

And it's because it previews in Instagram.

So it's literally like it's basically creating the post for you on your behalf, but piping people over that way, using the engagement who's already on your feed or seen their feed.

So Instagram stories, those are like 10 minutes or less. And then obviously on your actual feed it's like a minute or less. Right.

Instagram TV is 10 minutes or less. Instagram stories are those 15 second ones. Right, right. So there's two different things working here.

Okay, so you got Instagram TV, which is 10 minutes or less. You've got your Instagram feed, which the videos are a minute in the feed or less. Right. And then you've got stories which are 15 second clips.

Yes, exactly.

So what you're saying is if you post a video on Instagram TV that say nine minutes, Instagram now gives you the option to say, do you want us to post the first minute of this video in your regular feed?

Right, exactly, exactly.

That's cool.

I've just noticed that that has also bumped up my. How much of Instagram TV someone's watching.

And I think there's a different algorithm for Instagram tv and there's like, you can get found like if you depending on. I don't think it's as tapped, and that's why I can probably get a bigger reach on Instagram tv.

But if you were to ask what the growth strategies have been, it's consistency. It's also engaging on the posts that are made. So responding to everybody, every single post.

Even the spam ones, where it's just a picture of a fire emoji or something.

Yeah. And just reply back with a fire emoji.

And then also kind of looking at the people that are following you and seeing what they're doing. If you look at and see someone who has a blue check mark that's following you, then you know that they're actually vetted at that point and you can see who they're following and what kind of content they're liking. And it can kind of help you to understand what kind of content you could put out there to resonate with them more so that they like it more, they'll share it more.

That's one thing we're doing. Another thing is.

Being a part of different campaigns that are going out where they bundle influencers together.

And then you're kind of getting more followers or more exposure in that regard, too.

How does that work? I'm kind of curious if you can explain that a little more.

Yeah. So, I mean, again, I'm not the one doing it. I have somebody who's actually doing it for me, but.

It'S where they will. Let's say, like 20 or 30 influencers will be highlighted over a period of time. And you could put gifts or bonuses or.

Some sort of.

Like, you know, like a pool, like put a gift into, like a pool of people, like.

A lead magnet kind of thing. Everybody's kind of giving their own sort of lead magnet kind of thing into the pool.

And then kind of everybody can grow.

Right.

Like, if you. If you go in and you're. And you be a. And you're a part of, like a campaign where, you know, hey, if you follow this person, make sure to be able to get all of these bonuses. You have to follow this person, this person, this person, this person, this person, this person, this person. And you're in that list. And you also offered a bonus. Now, I think I pay for campaigns like that where I'm not actually putting a bonus in, but they're still putting me in that list. So it's a pay to play sort of thing as well.

And how would somebody find something like that? Where do you find the people that are organizing the campaigns?

You know, what it was for me, it was word of mouth. I literally got it from friends, you know what I mean?

We've heard the same thing though, because we've worked with Instagram guy and they kind of describe something very similar to that, but totally didn't get the full picture. But I'm like, okay, something's happening. This is how you really leverage everybody's follower base and kind of ramp up together.

Because we've heard of a lot of people talking about Instagram drops, where it's like you get a big influencer. This has say 100,000amillion followers on Instagram. They post a post on their thing and then as part of the description, they're saying, hey, if you're not following, so and so follow them now, right? And you get people to go and actually make a post on an influencer's Instagram to try to get people to trickle down to your Instagram. And we tried doing that and we actually did get above that 10,000 mark so that we can like actually have the swipe up thing in our story. But the people that we got onto it haven't been quite as engaged as we would have hoped.

Yeah, so do you know this social blade? Have you ever heard of that?

I've heard of it.

Never experienced it though.

You can track your engagement, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's cool because you can see what level of engagement you may have.

In your day to day stuff. I think that the thing is you want to get in front of the right people and then you have to keep them. You want to make sure that they want to consume the content. So it's like I find that the stories are the best way to keep them in there. And I think oftentimes, like, it's the fastest way for you to create content.

Right?

That's true. Rather than just uploading. And for me, luckily, like, I can do that where somebody else might do the posting. I can focus on the stories and I can say like, you know, sometimes it's just me walking the dog, you know, and talking. Or like, yes, yesterday I did mention that I had a friend from high school that passed and she was like, she's young and she was a girl I dated. You know, it's like. And I was, I was just sharing like that, that stuff, which to me, it's like, I just felt like I needed to share it and, you know, some. And that, you know, like, just sharing your life oftentimes helps people to understand who you are as a human and like, that that's the type of stuff people care about. I mean, while at the same time, you know, having something that will help them too, you know, like, so for me, it's stories have become more about me just sharing, you know, my family and. And.

Yeah.

And just what's kind of going on in my life. And I think that can help, you know, I think with. With just, like, making people see how normal of a human you are. Exactly.

I think everybody has, like, subtle voyeur in them. Right. Like, everybody's a little bit voyeuristic, where when they see really successful people or people that are where they want to be, they. They get a little bit of, like, I want to know what makes them tick. I want to see a little behind the scenes. I want to see, like, I want to see what their day looks like when they're not, like, on, you know, doing an Instagram video or a webinar or something, which I'm doing right now. Right now, both Casey and Joe are Instagramming.

I think you just videoed me.

I did. That was not planned at all. And it was great.

That's awesome. I know. That's funny.

So I'm curious because I literally was just struggling as I was about to do this. I was like, should I post this on my personal or on our brand?

Probably personal. I have a whole new philosophy.

I actually put it on the brand, but, yeah, I probably will. I didn't post it yet, but what's your take on that? Because I know you do a lot of personal branding.

I do. Most of it goes through my personal. But my guys have started to say, like, listen, all we have to do is, like, tag your business and then it can go, you know, then it will share it.

That's what I was actually about to suggest that we start doing is like, anytime I share a personal story that's, like, relevant to the business, all I have to do is tag Evergreen profits. And then our guy who run. We have somebody that runs that account for us. Every time he sees me, like, tag that account in a story, he'll know to share that to our Evergreen profits story.

Yeah, that way we try to run our systems a little bit. Yeah.

That way we get to live inside of our personal stories. But then anything business related gets shared across to our business story as well.

Yeah, I mean, anything you guys share, like, if you guys see there's two of you and you have one business, so it's like you guys are. If you do your stories on your personal and just always Tag Evergreen business. Like, then you're always going to have full complete content and there's two of you to do it. And all your, your person would have to do is go into Evergreen profits and be like and say approve, approve, approve to show up in that story. And then you might just from that alone, you may get people that are following you because of your stories that are on those additional platforms.

You know what's awesome right now is Stephen, who runs our ig, is also our show notes writer and he's listening to this podcast currently.

He's also the host of the upcoming podcast Hustle and Flow Shorts.

He's the host? Yes. But yeah, you're basically training him right now for us. So there you go, Stephen.

Oh, that's awesome. The shorts, that's interesting. Is that like outtakes or is that like a shorter?

Here's the concept of Hustle and Flow Shorts. So this podcast, Hustle and Flow chart, our episodes are typically minimum of about an hour. Sometimes they go as long as two hours. So Steven is actually listening to these episodes and finding like the gold nuggets of wisdom in like 5, 10 minute clips. And so it's going to be a daily show that repurposes just like gold nugget clips from our longer form content. And then it's a benefit to our guest because he's still gonna give a shout out to our guests URL. It's a benefit to us because we're gonna get more people listening to our podcast because now we have a short form version and a long form version.

So we're pretty stoked on it.

Cause it's a highly leveraged. It's just like repurposing this stuff, right? Like, it's so good.

He does an intro, tease it off, points them back to the main episode. So you'll get, you know, triple the love or quadruple the love with this one interview. I know.

So we're getting, we're getting sort of tight on time and there's a couple little things I wanted to touch on. One's a real super quick question about Instagram. Yeah, I noticed you're doing this and I've seen a lot of other entrepreneurs doing this where there's these like Instagram posts that almost look like screenshots of Twitter tweets.

Yeah.

Is that what they are? Are you like posting something on Twitter, screenshotting it and posting it to Instagram or is that like a function inside Instagram? Because I'm seeing it a lot lately.

Casey's shaking.

Oh, Man, I don't know.

I am not the best dancer ever.

I'm happy.

I just said to him, hey, I saw Lewis. How's doing that? Can you do that? And he was like, yeah, sure, no problem. And so, yeah, now. Now it looks. It's all. It's not from Twitter. I mean, it's manufactured, I believe. I mean, I think it's like an easy thing that they're like, oh, they're.

Probably using like, Snapper or Canva or something like that to, like, quickly I.

Could see that it really could be. And I wish I knew what they were doing. But now I think there's an editor that my guys go into because, like, the spacing in Instagram was always something that I couldn't seem to figure out. But now mine is looking pretty strong.

Yours looks good.

Yeah, I think I've seen Lewis Howes do it. I've seen Derek Halburn do it. I've seen. There's a handful of people on Instagram I've seen doing it. And I've always just thought, like, oh, they must be tweeting and then screenshotting the tweet and just reposting this screenshot to Instagram. But it doesn't look like that's what's happening. It doesn't look like a Twitter screenshot to me. So I was just kind of curious. But I kind of like the fact that you don't know, because that means you got a team that's doing your shit and running it for you.

That's what I'm saying. I love that answer that you don't know, because I'd probably answer the same way.

I don't have a clue. I mean, I wanted to know at one point because I was like, how do I do this? I want to do it myself. And I just realized when I was doing Instagram myself, I was doing these long, really long posts, which is good.

And they were thought provoking, but it took up so much of my time and day. Whereas now it's more of like, if I can stick with the stories and stick with doing something like on Instagram tv, then my content guys can just strip something out that I said that I did and take an image and then put that in as a post. Right. And then so that can be repurposed, like, and anything. Like, you guys have so much content because you do podcasts on a weekly basis. So it's like, do a week. Yeah, yeah. So you could, like, strip out anything. If you had somebody running it for you, you could probably do that. I think it's a question of like, it's hard to measure, like how.

What's the ROI from growing your Instagram?

Social proof is a big factor, I think. Here's my plan. In the next 45 days, the plan is to have 100,000 followers on Instagram. Okay. That's the plan. We'll see what that does. We'll see. I'll let you know what it does. And then in a year, I'd like to have within a year 350,000 followers on Instagram. And I'll let you know what that does too, when I get there.

Cool. So we're going to do a follow up episode once you hit 350,000.

Yeah. Hell yeah.

So the attention behind it, obviously personal brand credibility and all that. Is there a bigger thing? Is this for Easy Webinar to be seen as more enterprise or maybe courting a buyer or something? Like, hey, I'm legit.

Yeah. I mean if you look at what Russell Brunson is doing, he's got 350,000 followers on Instagram and he is that exuberant leader.

Of the tool. And so like what I've been trying to consciously be is more of the ambassador around the tool, but the ideas around Easy Webinar. Right. Freedom of life, automation, engagement, like these are the things that the software was designed to do. So I'm just trying to be that sort of.

Ambassador to that idea and just like, how can I be more of that? Because not only do I have the need to have more automation and engagement in my own life and business because we have three kids and you know, like our software helps help. The software helps me, you know, with funnels and things like that, right. So I connect with my audience more. And so I just want to be that, you know, I want to be that sort of, you know, example while at the same time just like, you know, like.

Person that proselytizes that, right. That talks about that know, says, listen, this is my goal is I'm not, you know, and also coming at it from the type of clientele I'd like to.

Attract.

Right.

We have a lot of women that use our system and I, and you know, we're not really talking about like fast cars and you know, and things like that. In a lot of what my message is, a lot of it's more like family, how to, you know, just be your best self and how to create more impact but have more time. You know, I think like that's, that's really how I want to position. And so I'm trying to be that, that exuberant leader and person that is not only you know, the person that is the, you know, founder of it, but also someone who's using it and using it so that I have more time with my family. So I'm just trying to be that, that personal. That's where the personal brand is kind of bridging into the tool also with the coaching and things like that. So it's like I feel like it all kind of comes together instead of, you know, I was behind the brand for a long time. Well, if you go to Easy Webinar, you won't find me anywhere. Like you might find some images, but I'm not the one that does our 30 day onboarding.

Right.

And so not many people know that, you know, if they, you know, if they're using Easy webinar, they may, now they may know me after a while, but, but I'm not necessarily forward front.

It's not like this is Casey's software. Buy it because I'm Casey. No, it's.

And it used to be more of like something like that, but now it's more on its own. And then I can focus on being a personal brand that will proselytize and say if you want freedom of life, if you want more connectivity with your audience, this is the way we've done it. This is the way that this, our software, which I'm a founder of, can do it. And so that's kind of idea behind the personal brand. Grow it so that I can empower people to have more freedom of life using the power of automation. Engagement kind of covers that idea of mind which is tribe minded, you know, which is, I think that's, I think it's very smart.

Yeah, I mean I think a lot of people actually kind of screw this up. I think so many people put a lot of focus on building a brand for a business, a software, a product that they're selling and don't put enough focus on their personal brand that transcends that product. Because what happens when you go and sell that business? You're starting from ground zero again, right? Where if you build a personal brand and everybody knows you for creating great software, you can go and sell the entire easy webinar business. And you're not starting from scratch because you have a personal brand. You have a following of people who listen to you. They're not following you because of your product, they're following you because of you. And I think so many companies miss that boat. I Think so many companies want to put all this time in branding a big, like, branding their product. And I just, I think, I think you need to focus on both. I think it's important to do both.

Yeah, I think so. Because, like, as you just said, you know, we have another tool that we're. We're planning still to launch out, which is a sales CRM, which we've, you know, had in the back for a while. But like, we. We plan on rolling it out. And I think that. But when you have your own platform, you can do so much more with it.

I think you need to have both. Right? You need to have. Your product has to be autonomous. It has to live on its own. But at the same time, I think that.

If people understand why someone built a product or tool and the whole reason for it and what they're trying to do, this is what we're trying to do right now. This is why I'm talking about rebranding. We're trying to really hone in more on the messaging behind the software. We changed it. Like, that was what, like a year and a half ago? Two years ago, we were really focused on the message. Our website design was crap, but the message was kind of on point. And then we said, well, I want to go more SaaS and really highlight the features and benefits and stuff like that. And then we realized that we didn't have as much story in the message anymore. And so now we're kind of going back and trying to have story and the features and the benefits combined now. And so. And my goal is to just be that ambassador where I'm like, talking about the story to give more insight into the story. I'm going to try to do more interviews with our top easy webinar people in different industries and just start to highlight what they're doing and do more of that. And I think that if my Instagram grows and my social platform grows, it gives me more authority for even doing that.

Yeah, sure does.

Well, dude, this has been amazing. Unfortunately we have time constraints, but I'm sure you will be around for around three at some point. Probably once you hit 300 plus thousand followers on Instagram.

It's gonna happen soon.

We'll get your blueprint for how to do it.

I know we didn't even, like, really go into easy webinar too much.

I wanted to touch on webinars a little bit too, but we didn't.

What are like, do you have a. I know you're redesigning some UI and all that stuff. It's an amazing tool by the way. There's just, I mean countless features and benefits to it all. Are there a couple of things that you're super excited that are coming out soon or things that people should know about?

Well, like we had a meeting in San Diego with our like 1 percenters, like with some of the people that are doing a million dollars plus with easy webinar and they told us what they were really interested in. We decided that we had a timeline but we are now taking some of those things and putting it in front of what we were planning on rolling out.

But some of it is related to direct SMS integrations.

Also.

An intuitive mobile experience where we already have that, but we were going beyond that. Now we're trying to like the people we talk to generate like 60,000 leads a month with easy webinar or if not more. And so the speed by which someone registers for a webinar needs to be really on. So the fewer steps the better. So we really dove into what can we do to make those steps fewer and increase their not only registration but attendance rate in the best way. And so now we're adding, which we've always done. I mean that's why more people have started coming to us because we're faster than Webinar Jam and a few others that are doing this stuff. But now we're going even deeper like what's, you know, like auto selecting especially for mobile, like auto selecting, you know where if it's email, auto selecting the screen where the email might show up or, or if there's a need for numbers, auto selecting the numbers. So it's just like little intuitive things to make fewer steps for the people registering and then a better show up rate as well. And so some of that as well as some live features.

Because we're going more all in on our live platform, not just evergreen, but live.

And so we have a couple new things that are going to be rolling out soon where you can actually. And it's not out yet and don't ask me when it's coming out because I never want to like, I can't say like commit to it. But one thing we're working on is being able to come onto a webinar on your phone so you can become a presenter from your phone.

Oh, that's cool.

Into the webinar, into the webinar.

Kind of like a facetiming into the webinar.

Yeah, for the live webinar.

That's really cool.

And you guys probably know like we rolled out like with our live platform, the ability to push video into it. So now you can run hybrid webinars through that. We push into Facebook Live and YouTube Live at the same time now or one or the other from our live engine. And for Evergreen, the whole thing is like we're still on top of being able to play on any device in real time using players like Wistia, Vimeo or YouTube, Amazon S3, or just taking what was once live with our live engine and pushing it into using it for one of our automated webinars.

Very cool.

So we're, you know, those are things we're doing. People and our 1 percenters care more about the video playing in real time than something like, let's say, simulated chat. Yeah, it's really interesting because I've never.

Really liked simulated chat either. I kind of understand that.

Yeah.

And it's been funny because we've actually had more customers come in that have said, do you do simulated chat? Because they feel sort of like that is duping an audience. So what we've been really conscious of is trying to put. To make you look good. Right. Like, how can you choose a software that is automated that has the experience of webinars while you still have integrity? That's what our job is, is basically to keep you with, you know, keeping integrity. Right. And so that's why we, we haven't rolled it in. We have realized that our, our, our top people, haven't they? It's not, that's not the top of their list. The top of their list is playing in real time on all devices, on at, at all times, you know, and that's what they care most about. And a lot of other platforms don't even do that. So that's the whole reason we're, you know, we're doing that.

I love it.

I love Easy Webinar. It's like you already have this amazing software found. I mean, you've been around forever. I did a sales video for you in one of your very first iterations. I don't know. I know how many years ago that was now, back when it was Easy Webinar Plug.

I was thinking about that the other day because I was like, man, I wonder if I could. I think I need to talk to Joe about, like, because that was such a good sales video that you helped me with.

I loved it making it too, because it was very unique. My sister was even involved in making hand illustrations.

I know. It's one of my favorite sales videos that has ever been made. And I'm like, I wish I could still use that.

Oh, you say that to all your video sales letter makers.

Yeah.

Don't tell me that.

Yeah, no.

But yeah, Easy Webinar is amazing. Yeah, yeah, we'll chat. I'll help you out with whatever's needed or direct you that way. But cool. Check it out. We'll link everything in the show notes, of course, to go dive deeper in Easy Webinar, but anywhere else you want to send folks, check out your Instagram. We'll link that up, too.

You can go to Instagram. Caseyzieman C A S E Y Z E M A N. I almost forgot my own name. And if you want to look at easy webinar, easywebinar.com and I've been doing more blogs on my personal blog page, caseyzieman.com blog. But anybody can DM me. I'm very approachable and I'll talk to anybody.

We do actually have a cool little bonus package we put together for people who get Easy Webinar through our affiliate link as well, so. So we'll make sure that's linked up as well for anybody who wants to see the bonuses that we throw out there because we use Easy Webinar. We actually just finished recording a webinar a few days ago that we're going to be ramping up with EZ Webinar soon. We've been out of the webinar game for a while, but we're.

We have. We're back in it. Yeah, no, we're about to hit it hard now, so this is perfect timing.

Yeah.

And your bonuses are killer, by the way. I remember them.

So it's. We're going to be adding more to them.

No, I believe that people like to buy tools and software from the people that they know like and trust. And I think after hearing you today, I don't know how anybody could not like you. So go buy Casey software.

You're one of them.

There you go.

All right, Casey.

I know.

I'm such a people pleaser. Okay. So if anyone doesn't like me, he'll.

Pay for it for you. No, I'm just kidding.

Easy to like.

Oh, really? Quick, do you have a book that. I know we asked you this probably last time, but anything new that you've been reading or you've been recommending to folks?

I mean, man, I mean, it's only on my mind. Like, Todd Herman's book is awesome.

That's a newer one, right?

What's E Something?

Power of Secret Identities, Alter Ego. I think it's Called Alter Ego. The power of alter alter egos to. To get ahead. And I can't remember the title of it. It's literally in my bag. Maybe.

Well, it'll be linked up in the show notes, so anybody listening to this, we'll make sure we link it up. It's Todd Herman's book. It's called, like, the alter ego effect or something like that.

He's booked on the show, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did he speak.

Alter. Yeah, I think it's alter ego.

Yes, the alter ego effect. You're exactly right.

There it is.

I've been going back and forth with Todd to try to get him on the show, so we're kind of trying to lock down times, but the power.

Of secret identities to transform your life.

Very cool. I like it. I gotta check that.

I read it on the plane. I read it. I mean, it was just, like, such an easy read for me, and I can't recommend it high. Like, it was helpful. I recognized that I was doing that when I had to go to Haiti to get my kids home. Like, I had to secret identity like an alter ego to be able to be even forceful enough to be. To go in with that intention, because I'm not a very confrontational person, so I had to be that confrontational.

I remember you saying that.

Type of person. So, anyway, that's good.

That's good.

Awesome. Well, we'll link that up. Everybody go check out EasyWebinar.com, check out Casey Zieman on Instagram. We'll also link up to the last episode we did with you, because we didn't really get into your backstory this time, because I know we covered it last time. So we'll link that up as well. And thanks for doing this and hanging out.

Always. It's always a pleasure talking to you guys.

Thanks, man. Same, everybody. Have a great one.

I'll see you guys later. Bye.

Bye. All right, thank you, and I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode. And maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe. Subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training, and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com so that's about it. You'll find them on Facebook. Go subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.