Crafting a Vision for Your Business and Relationship with Nadine Artemis

Because that's what I also learned having the store or like that first sort of phase of my business was yeah, you're. Because that's all like I was like, oh yeah, I just want to basically mainline Jasmine. Like I just want to be surrounded by the oils all day.

Yeah.

Which was part of it. But then you. So you take that passion, you take your hobby and you make it a business. But of course there's like lawyers and spreadsheets and insurance at some point. And so it was really just those years were good to also just making peace with those other things along the way that maybe aren't as exciting.

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Hey, welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Today we have Nadine Artemis with us who's a true pioneer in the natural healthcare and beauty space. All the way from when she was a kid she was like combining all these different herbs, plants, potions and things to create her own remedies. And in the 90s she ended up turning that passion into a career and then business. And now she's written books, a couple books, Renegade Beauty, Holistic Dental Care where she's sharing all of this information. She has great products with her company called Living Libations. I'm wearing some right now, some nice oils. And a bunch of celebrities, health gurus swear by this. It's huge in the organic beauty world. So if you know, then you know. And really, at the end of the day, the reason why I brought Nadine here is that her story is pretty awesome. I mean, she's started at a young age, has figured out how to really combine her passion of this natural, all these ingredients and then. And then beauty and how to turn that into essential oils. And really launching. She launched the very first aromatherapy store in North America, which now we know aromatherapy is huge. It's worldwide, it's everywhere. And so she's always pushed the boundaries, not only with the natural plants and ways she combines things, but also as a business owner. And she talks about the ups and the big lows, the downs that she's had during her journey and, and how she's kept herself in the game. There's a lot to pull from on the business side, but also insights on the health and beauty side that. A lot of tidbits for everybody. So you're going to enjoy Nadine Artemis in this one. And I'll see you in there in a moment.

All right, Nadine, so we are rolling, and thank you so much for finally joining, and it's been a long time coming. Shout out to Angela Hartman for making this happen.

Thanks, Angela.

Yeah, so.

You'Ve been in the natural beauty health space.

I mean, I would love to see.

Or hear it from your words because it seems like you span quite a bit of. You know, I have a couple books here. So you're. You're obviously in the dental, oral hygiene, health care, but they have Renegade Beauty is your other book here. And, you know, you're a veteran. Even you're a podcast veteran we were talking about as well. So tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll get into some of these nitty gritties of how you. How you got here.

Yeah, well, I. I feel like I had an entrepreneur spirit, really, from quite early on. Even I think one of my first businesses as we had a beautiful cottage and I would collect fish for crayfish, then I'd hike through the woods and bring them to the bait store for money. So it was one of my first.

It goes way back.

Yeah, yeah, way back. And then I was always, like, concocting with nature and making, you know, mud and putting on the body and crushing petals into that. And then in my home, in my, like, in my mum's bathroom. I would like, you know, empty out her closet, like her cupboards and mix the skull and crossbone stuff with like, her Joy perfume. And I had. That was like really mini me. But then, you know, as I'm a teen, I'm. It's the 80s and you know, it's like a whole plethora of. I feel like, you know, beauty. I'm a teen. It's like bottles of everything and beauty magazines. And I loved collecting perfumes and mixing them and breaking down the eyeshadow and crushing it and all that kind of stuff. But finally at school, we had a moment where we could pick what we wanted to learn for a science fair project. And so I found this book at the library that went into like all kinds of cosmetics. And there was a big chapter on perfumery. So that was thrilling to read, reading about its ancient roots in ancient Egypt. And my great grandfather had, you know, done archaeological digs in Egypt and he would. He went as an illustrator.

It was pretty cool. So I just was like, oh, that's so cool. And the blue lotuses, but it said, you know, talked about how the plants and flowers were distilled or pressed petals into like, fats and stuff like that. But it said that, you know, you can get essential oils at the health food store. So my mommy drove to the big city of Toronto and I got my first whiffs of like jasmine, ylang, lemongrass. And it definitely like, spoke to me in a whole different way. Not at that moment did I have like the vocabulary between like natural and synthetic and all that kind of stuff. But I was like, whoa. And then I. For the science fair project, I recreated Nina Ricci's Laird Etan perfume using essential oils. So that was really cool. And you know, then I'm just sort of rolling along as a team. But I get to university and then luckily I have to walk by this little health food store every day called grains and beans and things. So eventually, yeah, I bought every. And it was just in like an old house, you know, it was just like in a neighborhood. I got all these awesome books there and one of them was about going into like reading labels at the supermarket. And it was so mind blowing to see all the tricks and secondary ingredients or like all brand was kind of like cardboard fiber or like white sugar or brown sugars, like white sugar with molasses. And it was just fascinating. And it made me also go like, look at all what I thought was my quote unquote natural, like beauty products, which at that time was the Body Shop. And I was like, oh, my God, it's like, totally just petroleum. Promised land. Like, it's the same bs. There's no cucumber in the cucumber face, toner, blah, blah, blah. But it was at that moment where I was like, oh, my God, like, I can, like, make my own stuff now. Like, for some reason, it just gave me the. The purpose of, like, all that early concocting that went nowhere and was just silly. But now I could really, like, you know, So I was making everything from perfumes to, like, oils and serums and lip balms, and it was really. And then I was using the active components of the essential oils so that, you know, bringing in that moment and then that was. The essential oils really created this beautiful palette that, you know, you weren't. That just. In all the other skincare I'd ever used, it wasn't in there. And they're very effective, which is, like, kind of a whole other story. But, like, you know, we were able to clear up eczema or, like, I had this product called Waitress Legs that would help with spider veins. And so it's just making things and selling to friends and family. I called it Artemis Essentials. And so I was doing that as I was going through university. And then in university, I was, you know, able to find courses where I could, like, really, you know, research and explore, like, the history of the body. Sort of, like, because I was really into health, you know, obviously I had a focus on female health and just, like. I mean, the horrors throughout, like, history of, like, what we've done to our bodies.

Oh, yes.

In the name of health and beauty that have nothing to do with health and beauty. So I loved all that, like, you know, flowing together and, you know, and then bringing in a lot of those books that I'm finding at that health food store. Like, one was called how to get well and is this European naturopath guy. And it was just all about dry brushing and, like, you know.

Dry brushing?

Yeah. Like, just basic things like that. Yeah. Or like, how to get rid of a headache. And it was just like, I was just starting to see, like, you know, you know, from just growing up very normal, you know, just normal. And, like, if you have a stomachache, Pepto Bismo or take an aspirin kind of thing, and then just this whole other world opened up, and then it was a who world that I could, like, formulate in and create. Because I think with what I like to create, I really like to bring form and function together. So there's an artistry there, but I just love practicality too. So I find that with the botanical formulating is just such a great union. And then I would read like I was reading all kinds of things, but I couldn't get everything that I was reading about. Like maybe they're talking about immortal or like, you know, just these exotic oils. And I'm also reading a lot on like ancient, like even books from the 1800s that are looking at skincare formulas. And that's before things in the early 1900s got syntheticized. So it was really cool to see like how they're preparing perfumes and powders and oils and that kind of stuff.

That wasn't that long ago.

No, it wasn't that long ago.

Yeah, so now we'll dog ear that.

Yeah, yeah, we're like in the early 90s now and. But there wasn't like the information there is today, so it was definitely you. And I was, I would write to farmers and distillers all around and had these samples sent. And then I was getting not only the rare oils that I couldn't find, but even like the more common things like tea tree and lavender that were just so mind blowingly different and beautiful and subtle when it was just so authentic. It's kind of like the wine industry, right? You can have your box wine or you're getting your vintage things. And so that's what I was discovering, those artisan distillers. And then while I was at university, I was actually importing all these exotic oils into Canada and then making things. And so by the time I graduated, I knew what I wanted to do. And within six months I'd opened up North America's first full concept aromatherapy store in Toronto. And so we had like, you know, like, it was just so fun. All the people that would come in, that's where I met like Alanis, for example. She came in like she heard there was this store in, in Toronto and. And then her friend, like, I know who that is. And so we met like after her concert at like midnight at the store. And we're just smelling like kids in a candy store, you know, so that was.

Well, it's probably great after, after a big concert. Planet's worst. Yeah, everyone's wondering first name basis every year. But yeah, like, I know essential oils, like peppermint for instance, Right? Yeah, that'll. That'll wake you up at a heartbeat.

It sure will.

Yeah.

It was so fun. And she'd never like had all those in one place, sort of all at once. And it was really great because with this bar we had over 100 single essential oils and you could buy by the drop. Like people would come in with their own little bottles or we would make custom blends on the spot, like perfumes and that kind of thing. So that was super fun.

But then it was also seeing like, you know, and I just remember like our first website and all that kind of stuff. But then I was like really also seeing, you know, there's a thing to the store too where you're just sort of like waiting for people to come in. I mean we were busy making things too, but just I was ready for a change and also to like move out of the city as well. And I did have a business partner at that time and we wanted to go our different ways. So there was perfect timing and then just kind of like pretended I was retired for a year.

Did you need it? Like was there?

Well, I was retired. I didn't really have much like retirement funding but I wanted to just retire from becoming for a moment because there was really quite, it was really quite like non stop until like I was around 29 and like I really had been going since the university. Like it was just, you know, getting.

That business going and good on you. I mean like, well you're going since you know, a child, I mean obviously not working but you were mentally thinking of putting everything together. So good on you for taking that gap.

It's so good to know what you don't want to do. And while it looks like I had an idea of what I wanted to do early on, like sort of 18, 19, 20, that's where I was sort of making my own stuff. But that really just dawned on me sort of then. But prior to that I really knew what things that I didn't want and then that starts carving out what is there. And you know, even when in grade five, I remember being like, I am not working nine to five, I'm not working in an office building. I'm, you know, so I would know that stuff. And yeah, so I did always want to sort of be my own boss.

Isn't that cool? It's almost like because I had a very similar thought when I was going through a couple of jobs and it's almost like if you invert a little bit, right, it's like when you really picture what you don't want, like I really don't want this, then the be or the becoming really opens itself up to you.

It does, yeah. So you want to know you don't want to hang out where you don't want, but you want to know and then just move, keep moving.

Cool. So you had this gap in time.

So that gap, it was really good. Like, there was so much I learned from the store and also just so much learning from people's, like, bodies because they're coming up all the time. It's like this. How do you deal with this? How do you deal with that? And that also informs, like, what I'm going to make. What. What do people, you know, what's needed out there for people's bodies. So then I just sort of scaled down. I meet people on the street, they're like, oh, my God, I need your lip on. Like, where did you go? Because we didn't quite have Internet. Well, we had Internet, but I mean, it wasn't all just like socially connected then. It was kind of nice. Yeah. So then I would just sort of do. I sort of did these scent salons. So like, I just make up fresh batches and then like once a month people could gather, I guess I sent out emails. I'm like, how did we communicate back then?

Yeah, that was the salon.

Yeah, yeah. And so I would do that for a bit. And then I met Ron, my husband, and then he was just like, let's do stuff together. And I was like, ah, you know, I just had a business partner.

We're supposed to be romantic right now. And I was like, well, as long as it's like, you know, as serious as a lemonade stand or something like that. Because I didn't want to get into that because that's what I also learned. Having the store or like that first sort of phase of my business was. Yeah, you're. Because that's all I like, I was like, oh, yeah, I just want to basically mainline Jasmine. Like, I just want to be surrounded by the oils all day. Day.

Yeah.

Which was part of it. But then you. So you take that passion, you take your hobby and you make it a business. But of course there's like lawyers and spreadsheets and insurance at some point. And so it was really just those years were good also to just learning about, like, carrying that passion forward, but also, you know, just making peace with those other things along the way that maybe aren't as exciting.

I'm curious about this a little bit, Nadine, because, yeah, this is something. I mean, I work with my wife a little bit on some projects, not on everything. She has her own business with other partners as well. But I know a lot of us co create. We have relationships, partners. I used to have a business partner for over a decade, so I know the feeling of not having him anymore. Used to also be a co host of this podcast and then, but, but yeah, having that, that relationship, I think even more so with a partner. Romantic relationship. How do you navigate that? And also with the thing you said about passion, hobby, business, I thought that that's pretty impactful. And running it like a lit stand.

It was actually interesting because with a business partner that's not like your husband or wife or whatever we're calling people these days.

It'S. It's going to take a lot to maintain that vision that you're both focused on for decades, I think. Not saying it's impossible, but like that's. You got to have a real union there and sort of what's bringing you together to start. It could easily, you know, because you can't see all the way through. But when it's with your partner, with your husband, wife, partner, I figure you got to work together anyway. Like, even if you're deciding like who's taking out the garbage or whatever, like you, your house, I mean, you gotta kind of, I mean, it kind of runs like a business on one level, even if it's just two people. There's jobs and tasks, there's inventory. You gotta refresh the image, like that kind of stuff. So you've gotta have some kind of working relationship with your partner anyway, so. And I also think that vision that you're gonna hold is easier to hold because hopefully you have a vision for your union and your family. If you have children, like that's a thing that you're holding and working towards, which is like a business as well. So it seemed to make actually a lot more sense. And you know, we definitely had our, you know, he's got his different strength areas and we've had, you know, and he'll go in and out of different projects and stuff throughout the years. Or maybe it changed a bit once we had our son and you know what I mean, so. But we're always, we have that vision and we're, you know, gotta function in our home as well. So I think it works out well.

That's great. Vision is the key because that's where ultimately a partnership can end. Like, you know, the vision shifted for my previous business partner, Matt, and at the same time, you're right because I just had a second daughter eight weeks ago. So visions change.

A kid can change a vision or, you know, who knows, right?

Oh my gosh, yes. To know two of them here.

It's like, yeah, you're outnumbered.

Almost definitely. Yeah, but that's great. I just wanted to pause there for. Or not pause, but dive in. Because the vision, that's something that it's talked about a lot, but when it's not practically integrated into a story, like what you. What you're describing here, I mean, I can make or break a whole relationship. A romantic relationship and a business.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, well, we. It was really right early on, like, he. It was just like within weeks, he's like, let's work together, blah, blah, blah. But on one level too. I mean, we just like, I think it was. It's just so great that we had this productive thing. Like, I mean, how many movies can you just sit there and watch anyway, like, as a couple or whatever?

Gets boring. Come on, we gotta do something cool.

You gotta teach.

So that.

So it grew bigger than a lemonade stand.

Of course it did grow bigger. Yeah. So there was. Yeah, a few growth phases and then. Oh, yeah. So. But then we met and I had been already, like, you know, planning I. Doing so much research on, like, what it takes to move out of a city and like, get your land and all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, Ron was just fully game. He was like, yeah, maybe he hadn't fully thought of that, but he's like, yes. And so we luck. Like, we had, of course, tropical fantasies, especially coming from Canada. But luckily I actually, I had a few. I had some consulting projects in Hawaii. And then we got to go there a bit. And it was kind of like, yeah, like, we'll do. We. It's fun to go here, but we don't need to live here. And then I was like, you know, the. The. The area north of Toronto, we're in Ontario, was so magical to me as a kid because this is where I went to camp. We had a cottage here. There's like thousands of freshwater lakes and springs.

Beautiful.

So I was like, let's. Let's find a, like, place there. So we found our land, which was very exciting. And just having, like, this space, you know, just being out of the city just enabled growth right away. Just even capacity to have more inventory, for example. And.

Yeah, we're rolling along. We had leaf. And then, you know, we were building. We had, you know, we built things off the house too, for the office in our little, like, alchemy room and everything like that. And then we were gathering and saving and like, rezoning part of our property to build our headquarters. And that was in 2013. Well, we'd been planning it for a few years and then that just before the two days before, about to dig ground, even though we'd already like made the driveway and all that sort of stuff. Anyway, built the plans. Huge fire. Huge fire in our home. Luckily we, we sort of moved out of the home by then because it was just all business and we lived in a little cabin and. And because we again, we were going to build the future headquarters. And yeah, it was, it was crazy and devastating and you're just like, your whole home is like engulfed in flames and it's, it's insane. I can't even believe it actually happened.

But it did. And you know, we lost so much in inventory and everything.

Yeah. And on that dream. Right. Like a lot of what you were.

It also, it's that feeling because I guess what I'm about like 20, 20 ish years of like, you know, of the business and you just feel like, oh my God, do I have to start from scratch? Like that just thought makes you exhausted. But you realize too like, so we had nothing like physically, but you realize like your business is more than the physical because you have like all these beautiful clients that are ready and waiting. And like, I didn't even have my hard drive, but luckily I had my formulas elsewhere, so.

Right. Wow. I can't even imagine. Yeah, all the formulas you have.

Crazy. And luckily my bookkeeping was like in another. At the bookkeeper's house. So we had, you know, we had things like that. There was like these pieces that we could put together. But that was like an incredible moment. And we had a team then, about 15 people. And so it was crazy because they didn't even lose a day of work. Like, I don't know, just by Monday we were already like finding a place like in town. This like 5,000 square foot, like, home basically that we converted and like, you know, we just started ordering again and we let our clients know. So it was like August 2nd and we just said like, order as you will, and we will put, you know, it's going to take about a month or so, which I can't even believe it only took a month, but it sounds like everything's constant. Yeah, it is. And it's so like our, there's, it's complex like our, you know, we have like, I don't know, maybe over 300 raw materials that make over like, I don't know, 200 products. It's, it's, it's, it's kind of insane. It's like not insane at all, but it's like prolific.

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Well, the fact that you have an alchemy room, I love that title, by the way. Like, I want to call my office the Alchemy Room Studio.

It's a special place. It smells good. But like, and then we had, yeah, we had our orders. We had a little Rubbermaid bin of orders. And then we just, as the ingredients came in, if we could make that product, but not that one. But then we. So we would look like, who needs that? Ship it out. And the team just, yeah, it all came together, which was great because I think we needed something to do in that moment. And then, yeah, we're in that flow. And then we're also like, okay, we gotta think about rebuilding. But the great thing is we had saved and saved for a few years to build the headquarters. So we had A good little savings to literally buy inventory and just get things back up right away. Because that's also like. You'll see what your insurance is like when you have emergencies like that. And it's not always that exciting.

Yeah. Is there anything that you.

You.

So you learned about insurance? Like was there a big aha moment or some realization?

Well, we had all the right insurance but. And we could have sued the insurance agency because they definitely didn't do a couple things right. It was very apparent. But my choice in that moment was like, I'm focusing on the business as if like that's going to take my time. And I know that we can generate what we need if we just focus on that.

So that's great.

That was the choice there and then.

Yeah. So we're flowing along with that. But I also feel like.

I think I. Like she's speaking of burnt. We were speaking of burning out or burnt out or whatever. And I feel like, yeah, I was fully burnt out probably at that exact moment. And so I think it was just showing me like you were burnt out.

No pun intended at all. Yes.

Not that that was restorative like to, you know, because you really just. It's like adrenaline just to get like I think for a few years just to get everything going again. And then we got to look at the next space because like that was like, you know, wasn't going to be our forever home. And then realizing, oh yeah, like that back area where we were going to zone for the building, like there's, you know, we're in country roads so there's like better roads, whatever. And realizing we had to actually build in another place on our land and then like do a whole other rezone because it would have. It was going to be better because then we are now at the bigger place in. So it was great because actually even though it's going to take about a year to get to our new headquarters, it was actually like all of a sudden we had a bigger place even though we didn't have any business material. But all of a sudden it was bigger and we were operating and bigger. And as soon as you're operating and bigger, you kind of fill it out and you see and you're flowing and you're organizing things differently and all that kind of stuff. So that was really good. And then we. Yeah, then we started looking at the other spot around I guess 2015, 2016 and then that was that. And then our plans changed. The building size like doubled, so we didn't even have to build that first thing, like, it was like, already we just cycled through that. You know, it just felt like the fire felt obviously in that moment. It feels like a setback.

Yeah.

It's not like I recommend them or anything, but then you see later, you're like, I think it expedited things, you.

Know, like, so it sounds like it focused you in. Right. Like, it really harnessed your. What you needed to do the most.

Yeah. And it helped. Helped us expand almost quicker in a way, because again, we had that space and then all of a sudden we weren't building that original building, which would have been about, I think, 9,000 square feet. And then our building by the 2016 plans, and it was like totally different design. 21,000 square feet. Wow. And we're going to do additions this year. Well, we have already done additions. And it was really cool, though, because I could really build for the first time, like how I wanted. Like, the whole main floor is sort of this flow of production we had from the alchemy room to sort of out the door. We still had that alchemy room and then the different rooms that the product might visit on its way, like the labeling room and blah, blah, blah. So that was really cool. Yeah. To finally physically be in the space that was designed, like, you know what I mean, Rather than just fitting into spaces. And we also did a lot of really innovative environmental things, and we won, like, some environmental pioneering building award.

Well, it looks beautiful. Like, I mean, just behind you, if you're watching the video. Yeah. There's color. There's beautiful trees and snow. Behind you. The art.

Yeah. And I mean, people come from all over and they're like, oh, I want to work here. But I really. Because that. That small, like when I was a little girl, and I'm like, you know, I don't want to work for anybody, blah, blah, blah. I try and create a place where I would actually work.

Your environment.

I mean, that's the thing. And I think about this often. It's like, yeah, we are in control of what we view, our actions, our beliefs and all that.

Yeah.

Obviously there's this external piece that we cannot always control, but at least the. Maybe the alchemy room that we're all working in right now, you know, our own little bit. Like, make that beautiful. Make it something that lifts everything up. Your vibe, your energy, because that's going to go out to others.

Yeah. We are just so into those details. And.

So, yeah, then we move to that building. It was like building 2016 to 2018.

So good. We're all in there before the pandemic comes, that's for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And prices all gets complicated. Everything did.

Yeah. Well, just that, you know, thank God. We also. Because in. There was a lot of shutdowns here, but luckily we made. Already we're making like hand sanitizer, like for 10 years, and we make soap and we actually made like, aroma masks, not for the. How people use them, but we had them because if you want to just immerse yourself in, like, eucalyptus, it's just great. So we had these organic where you would just pour eucalyptus on there and then you could be. This is about inhaling the eucalyptus, not about, like, masking. So we, you know, that was just handy.

That sounds incredible. I mean, I'm a big fan of essential oils. Just like I was saying, like, using them for different purposes. And by no means am I an expert at all, but.

Yeah, well, yeah, you don't have to be. That's the great thing. They're just like, you know, once you kind of get into it, they're really easy to use and just. It's about just bringing it into your daily life. And that's why it's so cool when the skin care is infused with it, because then it's like not even a separate action. And they're, you know, to all varying degrees, they're antifungal, antiviral, antibacterial, anti inflammatory. So they can really work wonders on the body. They have a real physiological impact that's beneficial to our immune system, to our cells. Whereas so much skin care is just like, literally, it's not even neutral. It's like, harming the liver, the endocrine system, etc. So we're like, you know, far away from that.

Let's talk about that just briefly because.

That was one of the things I wrote down when I was prepping. And then again, as you were talking, are toxins. And all the things are even the ingredients that are shoved into a lot of these. Let's just stay to, like, skin care for now. But let alone all the food and things that are processed.

But that's what I'm thinking about it back in 1990. Wow.

Wow. Yeah. Reading the label and being like, what the heck is that thing?

I was even reading about the coming plague and bioweapons in, like, 94.

Oh, my God. So, wow. There's a lot. Okay. My body goes all over the place. But it's like, what? Yeah. Speaking to the folks listening. There are a lot of men listening right now. So just so you're aware, that's great.

We have a lot of men.

What do we need to know? Because, Nadine. Yeah. Like, set it straight. Like, tell us exactly some of the things that maybe are uncommon that you see is like, okay, this is something that you should know. Slash, you can kind of start integrating right now to feel better, be healthier. Obviously, business is always going to expand if you're feeling great.

Yeah, I think it is important to feel good. And really, the only reason why we do anything is to feel good. It's our own, like, you know, because what we think that'll make us feel better. So I'm all for feeling better and better and better for. For guys, I think, you know, soap, because it seems like if men have any, you know, they're using soap. Soap is good. But you want to look, you know, maybe get like a natural bar soap or just obviously keep your soap real. No sodium lauryl sulfate, that kind of thing. But we don't need to soap the whole body and the face. You just want to keep soap for, like, pits and bits. And you don't want to wash your face with soap. And you don't need to, like, like an Irish spin commercial. If anybody's that old, you're not, like, slathering the whole body. You don't. Your thigh, your arm, they don't need that unless, I don't know, rolling around the dirt.

So, yeah, ease it back on the soap because it just will dry out the face. And there's so many chemicals in soap now. But again, go to, like, you know, just like a natural bar soap. Of course we have soap and stuff, but you can, you know, get it at a health food store or farmer's market.

Shout your website out.

Livinglibations.com we have Clay soap, charcoal soap, like, totally real olive oil.

Now, if you wanted to go one step further, one thing I really recommend is washing the face with oil. So we have these best skin evers for the men. We have, like, sandalwood. Best skin ever. Frankincense. Best skin ever. And all you do is, like, squirt like cloth. Or you can use your hand. You just wet the face first. Or you put a spot of water on a cloth, one squirt of oil, and then you just go like that on the face. If people can't see me, you're just like, you know, moving the cloth around your face. And then you can rinse once and leave it. Or you can add one more drop of oil and you're done. So if you That'll just help, you know, just keep things going. You don't need a face from cracking. That's it.

You probably don't need all the lotion.

And women same program. But I'm just, you know, I know guys like to keep it simple too, but I'm really. Even though we make so many products and things, but I'm also just really into the simplicity of it. And when you have something that works, it works. And then the other reason why it works is because it's not creating a vicious cycle with the skin, which we kind of. There's so many products that put us in a catch 22 with our skin. So, you know, for over soaping and with synthetic or just types of surfactants, then we're lodging these microscopic splinters into the stratum corneum, the top layer of the skin, which over time irritate, can create dry patches or hyperpigmentation, melasma, where the skin changes color or rosacea, that kind of thing. So besides keeping it simple, again, we don't want to be having these toxins or something like with mouthwash, just classic drugstore mouthwash, Which, I mean, 10 years ago the stat was that that creates over 36,000 cases of oral cancer a year.

Oh my gosh. Is that the dyes and all the different stuff added in?

Yeah. And this, it's a synthetic alcohol, which is like, you know, different than just sort of vodka. And now that we understand the microbiome more, we see it's sort of like this scorched earth policy, you know, in the mouth, in the oral microbiome. And so you're killing the beneficial bacteria that we want to have kind of, you know, running the show. And when the beneficial bacteria are in balance, then they're going to take care of the pathogens because there's always going to be a pathogen in your mouth, for example. It's kind of like how antibiotics useful. Glad we have them. But with the over antibiotic of everything and it's in the farm feeds and everything. And what they do is they're sort of these indiscriminate assassins and they kill it all right. They'll take the good and the bad. And what's neat about essential oils, for example, in oral care is now we from modern science researching them. There are these things called quorum sense quorum with a cue sensing inhibitors. So that means they're able to inhibit the quorum. The sort of like when the pathogens gang up in a group and communicate and then start creating biofilms so things like clove, tea tree, frankincense, sort of these classic plants that we've been using for thousands of years for oral care specifically, but they probably didn't know. What we know now under the microscope is that they're able to then deal with the pathogens, but be friendly towards the friendly bacteria. So they're not eradicating everything. They're able to bust through the biofilm, deal with the pathogen, but not eradicate the beneficial bacteria. So you can see how that's, like, such an awesome option over green mouthwash. That's, like, killing the whole story.

Green number 25 or whatever it is.

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

And that's so common that everyone, you know, probably done forever, but I mean, hopefully we can kind of reverse a little bit here with this approach.

Yeah. And so there's so many other things you can do for oral rinses. Like, and I have recipes in all my books. Obviously, we make things. But again, it's so easy. Like, you could just take a 3% hydrogen peroxide and put that in some, you know, good water, and then that could be your mouthwash.

Or you can use salt water. You can put, like, just put a pinch of sea salt in water, rinse. Or a pinch of baking soda in water and rinse, alkalinize the mouth.

Ooh, okay. There's so many cool little things. And, yeah, over time, I feel like this is getting a lot more talked about now. You know, people are experimenting with different things. I mean, honest. Let's be honest. A lot of the stuff we probably already have in our house. Right.

You know, like, yeah, apple cider vinegar, olive oil. Like, amazing. Like, you could just use, like, how I described washing your face. You could do that with the coconut oil with jojoba or, like, a real true olive oil. You're like, good apple cider vinegar. You could dilute that about 60, 40 with some spring water.

And use that as a face toner.

That's what. Baking soda, I think, can probably be added into some of this.

Yeah. Yeah, you can. Literally, if you just brushed your teeth with just baking soda for the rest of your life, you would be a thousand times better off than using anything from the drugstore ever again.

Wow.

It can literally be that simple.

Okay, that might be a standalone right there.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, that's. Baking soda does seem like the thing. I know. Shampoo. Some people on the podcast who've gone deep onto the health side of things, it's like, that's. That's all they use for or you.

Can just add a bit of baking soda to your shampoo. I mean, we make shampoo, we make shape cream, and we literally have it all covered. Because also over the years, I would make things or like, people are just like, I only ever want to use libation. So you need, you know, to fill that area. So I'm like, okay, I'll make it bigger batches. We have the most gorgeous colognes that I think exist. Like, it's just so. And it's totally pure natural. Nobody's going to be sneezing. No, it's such a celebration.

It's actually smelling plants or, you know, nature. It's like, oh, nature.

You won't scare people in the elevator. I mean, people. We have poetic pits. That's a good thing, actually, for guys to get off the deodorant. Well, and women too, obviously, because also women shave. So then the pores are open and then you're putting like that. All the deodorants have some form of aluminum, blah, blah, blah.

That's right.

We have the underarm charm and poetic pits, which are classics. And people will be followed out of the gym or like hot yoga classes. Like, how do you smell so good? Like, what is going on?

It's like radiating off of you at that point.

I mean, because it works. It just. It works with your pheromones, it works with. It doesn't mask, you know what I mean? It just works with you and it just makes, like, you like your own natural smell and then makes it, like, palatable, like better. You know, like aromatic.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, what I'm hearing from everything here, Nadine, is, well, tap into nature, you know, like from a. From a very early age. I mean, there's a reason why we're all attracted to these scents and why, you know, like lavender, like, you mentioned eucalyptus and thank God I have a ton of that here, but not everyone does. I mean, I would imagine in cold Canada, like where you're at right now.

You can't get a lot of pine trees.

Yeah, pine tree is great.

But the essential oils, and that's why I love them. And yeah, my wife, yeah, she. We always have something around that's at least brings that scent into the house. The. My office, I mean, I have stuff all over here. I feel like it does something to your brain, too.

Yeah. And there's tons of studies on that. I mean, just whiffing. Even in the 80s, there was at the University of Milan, just all these studies done with bergamot. It's a citrus It's. What is the smell of Earl Grey tea is actually this tiny orange. Citrus. Yeah, it's not orange, but it's orange colored. And that aroma is bergamot. And they did like. It's so amazing. It's antidepressant. It's like uplifting. You could just sit with a bottle of bergamot, you know.

Oh, man, I've never heard of that. Okay. And there's so much to explore. Well, Nadine, I mean, this is great and thanks for taking us on this journey with you because I know it's been a interesting journey and I love the fact that you started young. It was always very hands on.

You know, you.

You literally created things out of nothing, but basically took nature, you know, and.

Nature. Yeah.

And added it to people, which, you know, it's beautiful. And I love the fact that you explored kind of these, these deeper, darker places like the fire and all the, you know, thanks for being so open. And I think this is really helpful for anyone can go on a journey, especially the fact that I was offline most of the time. A lot of us are just talking about the online type of things and. Yeah, and point us to.

Because I know you do.

You do share a lot online, you know, Instagram and whatnot. Are there any ways that we can follow along with what you're doing there? Obviously livinglibations.com being your website.

Yeah. So Living Libations is the main portal and totally feel free to email us there@sageivinglibations.com and we can answer any questions and we have a great team for like, yeah, you can throw us your beauty health, dental care questions and we will rock what we know, if not send you some resources. And we also do free consults for people as well. And then, yeah, I've got. I'm mainly on Instagram @nadineartemus and we've got Living Libations and then the books are also available as Audible books over on Audible.

These books are beautiful too. They're fully colored. I mean, you spent obviously a lot on this and to put them together. So they're engaging and full of knowledge. I mean, they've been used. They've cycled through my house. Yeah, I know. My wife has picked it up. She's. She's using some of the mascara as well and she loves it.

Oh, it's so fun. She made the mascara. That's so cool. And there's a chapter on like birthing and, you know, baby something.

It's working.

So appreciate you so much, Nadine. And Definitely. I urge you all. I know this might have been a, you know, talking about skin care and all, that's a little different. But at the same time, let's be honest, we all have skin, right? It's like the biggest organ that. We all have.

Teeth.

We all have teeth. That's right. So keep yourself feeling great, looking great, and. And again, Nadine, thanks for sharing your story.

Thanks so much for having me on.

Sam.