Curt Maly - How To Force Facebook To Give You Cheap Opt-ins

Boom, boom, boom. Boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Good day.

Good day, sir.

How has your last fortnight been?

It's been alright. Yeah. I mean, it's almost night actually again, so.

Isn't fortnight the last two weeks?

I think so, but then it's actually becoming night right now, so it's tripping my brain out. Yeah, yeah. Fortnite.

That's Fortnite. Also a video game?

I do believe so. Yes. We are that old.

We're that old. But I've heard the word fortnite turned around, thrown around and I'm pretty sure it's the name of a video game, but I've never played it or seen.

Is. And yeah, we're not the demographic, so that's probably why.

Which we should probably learn more about it because that is the fastest growing entertainment industry like in the world right now or something like that is. Is esports.

Yeah, we were talking about that with Mike Cannings, actually. Oh yeah, that is mikeenig's reference, actually.

I think that episode's not out yet as.

Oh, as this one. Okay, well, you'll soon hear that we're.

Opening a loop that we talk about E Gaming when we have our episode with Mike Koenigs.

Just make sure please to subscribe to the show if you're not. That would be lovely. Thank you very much.

Today we're talking to probably the smartest Facebook ads person I've ever really known.

Oh yeah, this dude is the called upon Facebook guy for just like keeping up with the latest. Like, I feel like this guy's more tapped in than anyone else. The guy's like, he has his own Facebook rep. He has a whole team. He's doing work for like fricking what Politicians, I think he mentioned on this episode. But like also movie directors, like massive companies. So he's in the trenches and spending like a lot of money because he's experimenting. He's always experimenting. He's always tweaking his strategies and he loves to come on the show and give away those strategies.

Yeah, this is actually a part two for this guy and his name is Kurt Molly.

That's him.

And this episode is awesome. You'll hear me just nerd the F out during this episode because I love tactical episodes. Like I just, I really get excited when we start getting into the weeds and the tactics and stuff.

And this might be one of those episodes where you might want to. If you're one to prone to speeding up an episode a little bit. I maybe slow.

Don't do that on this one.

Slow it down if anything, because.

And Definitely go to hustlinflowchart.com comp and get the notes too.

That's right. And I think we're actually going to verify that those notes are accurate by Kurt just to make sure that we captured everything accurately. Because there are a lot of like, he gets into the weeds like none other.

Yeah.

I mean, he tells.

He definitely though, we start talking about.

Dynamic campaign, all that stuff, man. Like, that's why I'm like over here. I'm getting the theory and that's why you'll hear me like, hey, do you mean this? Yeah. So, yeah, if you're not like that much in the trenches, I definitely recommend you get those notes.

Yeah, he's talking about some absolutely freaking, freaking ninja Facebook tactics. But if you don't have experience with Facebook ads, this will probably make your head spin a little bit. So you might want to listen to it a couple times and grab the notes because this stuff is stuff you're going to want to know. But it is, you know, it's a little bit more on the technical side.

Hey, man, it's worth it, though. It's like this is the stuff that every business owner can use. And you don't need to be a tech crazy person to make this happen. You don't need to spend a lot of money either. That's. So let's don't go away if you feel like you're not like, in the, like, you're ready. Everybody's ready to use Kurt's tactics. That's the beautiful thing is everything he does doesn't take a lot to get a massive impact.

Well, we talk about how you can sort of squeeze down your lead costs by, you know, setting target lead costs instead of Facebook. So you can tell Facebook, look, I only want leads if I can get them for $1.50 each. And Facebook will go out and try to get you a $50 leads. And we talk about that. We talk about Kurt's belt method. Kurt had this whole big thing that he did where he. He won this contest for teaching a Facebook strategy. And he got this like, giant wrestler's belt. And he went around and he took photos with this wrestler belt and he made videos with it. And for like a couple weeks straight, him with this belt was just all over Facebook floating around, and it led to all sorts of like, clients coming on board for him and eventually the belt got stolen. But it was you, huh? It was not me, but it is still a mystery.

It's whoever it is.

Colonel Mustard in the library with the rope.

Anyway, so John. I'm looking at you, John.

It's either John or Charlie.

Ooh, not talking about John Belcher.

Anyway, we talk about some really ninja.

Shout out to that guy because he's cool.

He is cool. Traffic guy. Yeah, we give some. There's some really, really ninja Facebook tactics in here. Kurt is just awesome.

He's an awesome dude. He's like. He's the most generous guy in this space. In most of life, I would say. He's just a cool dude all around. So you're gonna love him. And definitely. Oh, there's one other tactic that's actually really cool. That Wendy Sue.

My bad. Wendy Hart.

Wendy Hart.

Sorry, Wendy. I was thinking about our note taker, Sue. Actually, I was prepping the note thing in my brain. So Wendy Hart actually stopped us at an. And we'll talk about the strategy she used to actually create this kind of effect of Facebook ads around that geographic area, like that address at the event. And she actually had people stopping her at the event using one of Kurt's strategies that he will explain on this show. So that's pretty cool. And it doesn't take much money at all. I think it takes like 150 bucks for like a three day event is what Kurt said. And you're going to have this like crazy presence where if you have an offer, like, you're going to make more money from this than like sponsoring an event.

Yeah.

So pretty.

We'll get into that with Kurt in this episode.

I watch everybody do this at like the next TNC or whatever.

Yeah, well, no, anybody can do it because it doesn't really. When he explains it, you'll hear it doesn't really matter if more people do it.

You were correct, sir. Perfect. Everybody should do this.

Any event.

Exactly.

All right. We're sponsored.

Yes, we are. By Ahrefs.

A H R E F S, C O M. That's right.

Thank you for. For spelling the com. No one's ever heard that before. So at the comm site. That one.

That ahrefs.com.

Yeah, that one. Not like I forgot it. I was at trial.

Yes. Seven days.

Seven for seven days. For $7, I'm gonna put you on the skillful access. Go.

Can I put you on the spot?

Don't make me look dumb.

That's not hard, Joe. You set yourself up there. I know.

Pretty good at that.

You and I, before we Hit record. I was just explaining a strategy to you.

Yes.

Can you explain it back?

The skyscraper strategy?

Well, sort of, but how does it tie into Ahrefs? How do you use Ahrefs for that?

Okay, I'm gonna do my best, but. Okay, don't record this. I mean, it's recording. But don't follow this word for word, you know, because it might not be accurate. So essentially, you can use Ahrefs to figure out what content is being ranked very high by Google. And what we're looking for specifically in Ahrefs is you can filter down by backlinks. So you can actually. Well, actually, what. You would search up a keyword first that you're looking for, like a core keyword, and then you're going over to the backlinks section and putting in max zero.

Yeah, backlinks.

So you don't want any backlinks for the pages you're searching. And then you are basically going to go visit that page and figure out what kind of content's on there, look for. Oh, you also want posts that probably have minimal amount of words, so less the better, but not necessary. The backlinks are the key thing, but if you can combo the two. Cool. And you could search both of those in Ahrefs, or at least locate them in ahrefs.

Yep.

And then check out the content, make your own post, and then basically start linking to other posts that you found under there. And, yeah, I mean, you're. I'm almost there. I'm not getting. I'm not nailing the backlink part.

Yeah, no, you're close. You're pretty close. So basically, the concept is you're going to go into Ahrefs.

No, no, no. You don't have to repeat what I already said all the good shit in the beginning.

Right? Yeah, But I'm going to make it more succinct.

Oh, perfect.

Thank you.

So you're going to go inside of Ahrefs and you're going to plug in sort of a broad keyword that's kind of a general keyword of what you want to rank for, for example, like, podcasting. Right. So you could go in there, type in podcasting, and then there's little filters in Ahrefs and you can set the filters. And we want to set the filters to find keywords that have zero backlinks but have a high search volume. So you can actually go in there and there's a filter for how much search volume. So we could say I want it to get at least a minimum of A thousand, you know, searches a day or something like that, right? So you're looking for these articles in there to get a high search volume.

Miss the search part.

Backlinks or very few. Like if nothing shows up, with zero backlinks, you'd put one backlink. If nothing still shows up, you plug in two backlinks. You want very minimal backlinks. Then what you're going to do is you're going to look at those articles that show up and you're going to make better articles and then you're actually going to backlink them because the people that are showing up there aren't backlinking them.

So how do you backlink them? Explain that.

So you can do internal backlinks where on your own website you're going and linking to this new article that you made. That's kind of like a core thing. But if it's showing zero backlinks and hrefs, that means no third party sites are linking to it. So what you want to do is you want to go find the websites which you can use ahrefs to find these websites that link to the original article that you found. Right? And then you go and outreach to those people and say, hey, you're linking to this article. I actually have an article on my website that is more in depth, it's more updated for today's details. And you know, you don't disparage the old article, but you go in and you say like, I've updated it and it's better now. And then you try to get them to link back to your article instead, replace the old article with your article.

So another question, Matt, and I know you have an answer for this, but it's up to you to give it. How do you find the email or how to contact that person's blog.

Other than like a contact form.

But so there's a tool out there, I think it's called Hunter I.O. and you can plug in people's names and it'll help try to find their email address. And I think you can use it up to like 50 times a day or something.

Not for spam, not for spam, but for outreach. But it's been extremely effective. Like we've been doing this a lot lately for a whole bunch of different purposes in businesses. Outreach for just mentioning us or linking back to something that we have from our blog. So yeah, super, super effective. And figure out how to do some trades too if you need to get a little techy with it to bribe someone. So hrefs yeah. So H refs. Jesus. I did it again.

A H r e f s.com yeah.

So.

Very forceful with saying that domain. It got a sneeze out of you. You almost punched the mic in that process. Damn.

All right, this is, I think, our world record for longest intro. You don't have to call it out like that.

You just gave a killer tip that everyone should be able to use. I like, even without Ahrefs, they can use that thing. They can kind of, sort of.

Yeah. I mean, it'd be harder to find the data.

Okay, so at a minimum, just go to Ahrefs and go try it out for seven damn days.

Seven bucks.

Seven bucks. You can make money out of that strategy, so give that a shot. Ahrefs.com and we also have the notes, as always, for this episode that we took for you. So you don't have to take any of the notes for a limited time, about one to two weeks. Go over to hustleandflowchart.com comp. Actually, don't wait for that long. Just go there right now to pause this. Go to hustleandflowchart.com comp.

This is a tactical episode. You're gonna want these notes.

Yeah, that's right. I didn't even remember. Yes, because we're talking to Kurt. Yeah, so this intro has been so damn long, I forgot who we're actually talking.

This intro is now officially longer than the episode itself. No, I'm just kidding.

Very short tactic. All right, so, yeah, get the notes, you want them, and we got them verified by Kurt that they're actually legit. So go grab them. Hustleandfluechart.com comp. Alright, let's go talk to Kurt.

Love you.

Bye. Curtis. Welcome to the show.

Curtis a. Molly. That's how you registered to be on the show, by the way. When you filled out the calendar, you wrote in Curtis a. Molly.

Oh, that's because I have auto Google forms. And without auto Google forms, like, seriously, I'm on the interwebs. Why would I type in an entire form? It sounds like a lot of effort. Autofill. It's great.

Yeah, well, I use a tool called text expander, which does the same thing.

Yeah.

That'S why we've been calling you Curtis this entire time.

No, prior to recording, before we hit recording. And outside of all the racist jokes you were making, you were telling us. No, I'm just kidding. He wasn't really making racist jokes. No, before we hit record, you were telling us about, like the agenda and the busy Life that you're running right now where you've got. You just got done meeting with two people. Then you have an event tomorrow and then the next day there's another event and then there's a week long event after that and then there's four more events that are back to back to back.

So how, how do you.

Do you eat? Do you sleep?

That's actually a really good question. So that's a very good question. I'm glad you asked. My amazing girlfriend's out here right now and she's making an amazing meal over the last couple of weeks with a busy time schedule. She has prepared meals and a grocery list. This is on a podcast, baby. This is real life. Hi. She actually helps take care of a lot of that stuff. So I'm actually really fortunate. Especially if I'm really nice to her. Like during the week she'll bring snacks and stuff like that. So I keep working. So that part's amazing.

You have a good lady.

The other thing is she has to have the TV on loud kind of out there because literally, since I like to teach, I say the same thing over and over and over. So when I start telling stories like this, this is like the 20th time I've heard it. She could probably even mouth the same words.

That's funny.

That reminds me of back in the day. I used to edit a bunch of videos, like the sales videos. And I would have to like go back and like say a 15, 10 minute or second chunk and just listen to that same area like five times, like trimming the right. And Heather. Yeah. My wife is just like, dear God, how many times are you? I'm like, I'm editing, I'm working here.

All working. Yeah.

It's making money.

That's awesome. Because when I go to events, I'll go to like one event and I'll be out. I'll be gone for like three days and I'll be like, okay, cool. I need to like cool off for the next six months before I'm ready for another event. So I don't. Yeah, I'm always like in awe of someone like you who has the, the amount of energy that you have. But you're always a very energetic guy.

Different strokes.

Yeah, you just. The energy doesn't deplete. You're just always. Yeah, you're just always going. And I love it.

The thing is with me that gets a little worrisome for me personally. Share something a little personal with your users is there's something with my brain that I am Mentally stimulated to the core when I'm talking to really smart people. So like when I'm at an event, like one of our large events, for example, we're surrounded with a lot of speakers. I, I just don't really sleep much. And it's not because I'm necessarily stimulated because there's lots of drinking going on, partnering. It's like, man, we got into a really great conversation and another great conversation, another great conversation. So for me, I'm always really looking for those nuggets. Like we were just talking right before we turn on the recorder. I was really fortunate to have the ability to spend some time last night, actually five hours with Dennis Wu, which I know has, is ranked really high in your podcast. Tom Bry is one of the top YouTube advertisers out there. And we just have that ability to be able to spend that time. And I don't really sleep after that. So what I look forward to is not necessarily being in front of the crowd and having a whole bunch of people cheer for me. I think that's great. But man, I love these one conversations, second conversations, third, fourth, fifth, and I just learned so much. And then what I love to do is to come on a podcast like this and to share the information. And it's, it really, it really, really drives me because I can help a lot more people. So I'm much more about the stimulating conversation than it is going to the actual event itself.

No, never have it. I was going to say I love that because that's how I am at events where we sleep very, very little when we go to events. I think Joe and I, our average is probably four hours a night when we're at an event.

Because that or we sleep a lot and we never go back to the conference. It's like one of the two.

Yeah. Or we'll stay up till 4 or 5am, go to bed as the sun's rising, sleep all day and then start it in the evenings again with all the networking and meeting people. But I'm very, very stimul, intelligent, you know, conversation with depth to it. But it also, by the end of like three days of that, I am just so drained.

That's my question for Kurt is like, do you have a drop off period? Like, is there a. What does it look like after you go hard like that? And how do you make sure you keep going too?

So this is a great, this is a great question. So let's just take an event that a lot of us know about, trafficking conversion, for example. Right. So Traffic and Conversion in our industry for people who don't know, like there are going to be 10,000 people there now for me is I like attention, I like to be on stage. But to be on stage at Traffic and Conversion, there's a lot of paperwork to fill out or you got to be a sponsor, blah blah blah. There's a lot of other things to do. So what we do as spectators, what most people do is we're, if I'm getting a booth, we're walking the halls. So it's a lot of one on one handshakes, right? Hey, how are you? Hey, how are you? The transfer of energy there is, oh my goodness, exhausting. Like I can only do that for a couple of hours. Right. Guys as well too is it's like you. That's not very fun for very long, right? So going to the hotel bar and then yelling and screaming and talking about ideas and the voice being completely gone. Like we make money by our communication. So I don't like going to the bars late at night because then it gets loud, super loud, people start getting drunk. I'm not really too interested in that. Then it gets really loud and I'm not really connected. So as you guys know, and I'll say this, and it's kind of funny because people ask me about it, but as you guys know as I'll host these private parties at these events. So the reason is, is, is because I know, let's just be very open. We've talked about this. I'm sure I'm not sharing anything with your audience that they don't know. But I, for example is you're not necessarily stimulated by being around lots of people for a really long period of time. I know you like around people, but if it's a mob of people for three days straight, it's like, ah. My thing is I don't have a lot of great conversations by walking through the halls and shaking hands. So what I like to do is I host these, I like to say VIP parties. But what they are is because I want to get people like yourselves who don't necessarily want to be in a huge crowd with lots of noise and I want to surround you with other smart people so you have stimulated conversations. And in about a four or five hour period of time, I'm getting to know you deeper versus shaking a lot more hands for 30 seconds. So for me, my energy level, if I'm constantly walking around the show shaking hands, my energy level is just depleted by four or five o'. Clock. Dude, I Just want to be done. But if I'm kind of hanging out at my house a little bit, I go to the event, shake a couple of hands in the hallway because by the way, we'll talk about my propaganda. I'm always running ads to the local area where I'm at. So literally me just walking the halls, people are like, hey Kurt, I just saw you because of. And then I'll invite them to a party where I can have a deeper conversation. So I'm more interested these days of in walking around, shaking hands, having a little bit of energy, inviting people to a party that I have to spend a whole lot of money in, but just put the right people and constrict it where it's not 500 people, it's an all invite so we can have deep conversations. So honestly, by the end of the event, I'm tired. But dude, I've had some really great conversations and it's none of this bull crap of hey, let's get home with 700 business cards and follow up. Like that never happens ever. So that's my plan of attack. Every event I go to every event.

And almost all the actionable stuff, like the stuff that you're going to go and implement in your business is going to be something gained from somebody you chatted with at one of these parties versus something you took notes on from the stage. I mean, you got a perfect example.

You guys were there, I know you were right in the area. We were talking to my brother and I love saying this to clients. Oh, what do you think about attribution? Oh yeah, there's a 28 day attribution. Actually, you know what, we throw this VIP party at a trafficking conversion. This is where we name drop, right? And the owner of Wicked Reports was actually at our party and as we were sharing a beer of Wicked Reports, universally, how long do you see a buying cycle out of all the ad accounts that you see? And he's like 78 days. So we look at attribution. See, you're right. I'm learning these things at the party, but I wouldn't learn this without a conversation, one on one. And when you start talking about this stuff like you are, the cream of the crop comes to these deeper relationships. Not 700 business cards.

Well, let's be honest too, everybody that's getting on stage and we have a great relationship with digital marketer I, there's not 100% yet, but there's a fairly good chance we're going to be speaking at Traffic Conversion Summit this year. And so, you know, we. We love the company, and we love what they do, but let's be honest, everybody that's getting up on stage and talking, they all have an ulterior motive for being there and being on stage. They all want to sell you something. They all want to take you deeper down their rabbit hole in some way. And, you know, you kind of get to cut in line and shortcut it by being at these sort of side networking events. We do the same thing, by the way, during tnc, we have our overtime event, which usually wraps up about the time that your event starts to get going.

So that's.

Yeah, we took a note from you every year.

Yeah, we took a note from you, and we're like, okay, we're gonna bring in all of our buddies, people like you. And Tom was there. Tom Brees, and I think Dennis, you might have come to the last one. But, yeah, we're bringing in all the folks. A lot of the speakers.

Scott from Wicked sponsored it.

Wicked was there. Yeah.

So there you go. It's all the same crew. But, yeah, it's so cool to not feel like you have to just be like a freaking chicken with his head cut off running around. It's like, no, have some genuine conversations and bring someone else into the fold, and then you get a random idea like what Scott gave you about attribution.

I bet this isn't what you were expecting to talk about when you're coming on the show.

I do. I love this stuff. One other tip I want to give people because, like, honestly, this helps me out so much when I'm at events is. And you guys have seen this at some of my parties, and you guys under the same thing, too. But many times people aren't impressed with your money. They're impressed with the experience. So I don't spend. So lots of people spend lots of money to rent a private boat, and they have a private chef and they have a private bartender. They're $20,000 into it, and they just need to get one client. I'll do over a quarter million dollars, half a million dollars worth of business over the course of traffic and conversion of my party. And we'll probably spend less than $2,000 on my party, which is just food and alcohol and having the right people there. But I mean, come on, where else do you spend two or three grand to make quarter of a million? Yeah, half a million dollars in sales. Like. Well, if you buy.

If you buy your. Your Facebook ad course, then. Facebook.

Exactly. But moral of the story is deeper Conversations. This is what I love about you guys. I love being on your podcast, Ian. Thank you. I love how you do show notes. Oh, side note, by the way, this is very important because I want to say this on the podcast. So I'm inside, you know, another agency group where we train lots of agency owners, and someone has a podcast client, and they're like, man, what should we do? And they put a link at your podcast, and they're like, if you want to see what you guys should be doing, here's all the things you should be doing. Here's the show notes, here's the newsletter, here's how they run their podcast, here's their guests. And I'm like, on that podcast here in a little bit.

Oh, cool. Thanks for sharing that.

Yeah, it's pretty cool to see. Pretty cool to see.

Yeah.

You'Ve helped us a ton, obviously, with the ads. And you actually mentioned something before. I forget. I made a note because there's a lady, Wendy Hart, who we met at. She listens to a lot of our podcasts, podcasts, and all that stuff. Met her at a podcast movement, and she ran some of those local ads, you know, when. When she went to an event or I think it was that podcast movement just the other week. And she was like, oh, my God. Because if she learned it from you listening to the previous episode, so great. And she was like, people are literally stopping me in the hallways. And we're like, holy crap, that's so cool. So, yeah, I wanted to let you know that she's probably listening, so hopefully that makes sense.

Oh, I love that. Love that.

Yeah, we're gonna get into the propaganda stuff in a minute, and you can kind of explain to our listeners what the hell Joe's talking about in a second. But one of the things that we've actually been doing. Actually, you know what? I'm just going to jump straight into the weeds now, because we know we're going there eventually. But one of the things that we talked about on our last episode with you was the whole tofu mofu bofu concept, right? Top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. And, you know, that that led us down a path where we hired you guys for some consulting, and you guys really, really helped us dial in our Facebook ads by following that methodology. And I know I'm not going to tell you anything that you don't already know, but I feel like I just recently, within the last couple weeks, like, cracked it wide open, and our ads are just, like, crushing right now.

That's Great.

If you remember, when we were doing some of our previous calls, one of the issues I was having was I was running a whole bunch of videos, Middle of Funnel, for a dollar a day each. And they were getting really, really low relevance scores.

Yep.

So what I actually did was I scrapped all of those dollar a day videos, and now I just have two campaigns running middle of Funnel. But what they are is they're. They're dynamic creatives. And each one has 10 videos in it. And then it just has a real sort of generic text around it that just says, hey, this is one of our favorite clips from our podcast. Check it out and let us know what you think. And then it's just got, like, 10 videos that are just on rotation in the dynamic creative. And now our relevant scores are like perfect tens. And I'm getting. I'm paying 8 cents per 100% view you running.

Just to be clear. So you're running. Each individual ad set has its own creative. And then you turn on cbo.

So I'm doing. So you've got your campaign, and the objective of the campaign is video views. They don't let you do engagement when you're using dynamic creatives.

So the campaign is set at video views, and then there's an ad. There's two ad sets in there. I think they're both targeting the same thing. And then each one has an ad in it with 10 videos in it.

Great, Great, great, great. And again, so just to walk over this for everybody, if you don't mind, I'm going to back up for just a second. Cool. So one of the things that Facebook talks about is the power of five. So we're gonna kind of dive straight on into it. This is full automation. So what Facebook wants us to do more than anything else. This is what we really worked on. A lot of our coaching calls together, consulting calls together, was we want to lean into the automation. Now, a lot of us are really kind of control freaks, and we want to try to control the experience. But what Facebook wants us to do is allow the algorithm to do all the hard work. Let's work on our creatives. And it's really interesting because that's exactly what you did. Right. You had a whole bunch of different creatives. I know you had, like, a couple of different creators, to me, a couple of different versions, lots of dollar a day stuff. And we were basically forcing, hey, we have all these different creatives just to make it up. 25 different creatives. And we're trying to figure out which best Creative fits the right person at the right time. It's kind of the goal before. And the relevancy score is kind of lower. Well, this power of five that Facebook asks people to lean into. And Facebook has a lot of marketing around the power of five. It's not just me making this up, but it's their term. But the first thing is Facebook says the power of five. They say, okay, go back, go in the back of your ad account and turn on advanced matching. So if you go to the pixel area and go to settings, you'll see the settings area. There's something called advanced matching. So now that Facebook tags people at the Pixel, they're going to start to match first name, last name, email address, city, where they live in. So they really know if I'm targeting Matt, Joe, not Joe and Matt. Let's be very specific. Right. So now that we have advanced matching, Facebook can pretty much tell if you're going to switch between phones, tablets, computer. Well, that doesn't really matter. So now the next part that we're going to start taking a look at the power of five. The second thing is automatic placements, because what's going to happen is we want Facebook to figure out the placements. You know, so many times in so many other courses, I just gave somebody a bunch of consulting on this today. We usually, as silly humans, think, man, I gotta run all my ads in the newsfeed. Because that's where I see that has the best conversions. Well, the newsfeed may work for the first three or four days, and then maybe on the fifth day it's Instagram, and then maybe on the sixth day it's audience network. Well, if we're only forced Facebook to run on the news feed, we're actually leaving a lot of money on the table. The power of five. What we're looking to do is we're looking to turn on automatic placements, let Facebook figure out if it's Instagram or Facebook feed. Let them figure it out with the creative. Okay, so we got automatic matching, advanced matching. We've got the automatic placements. That's pretty easy. Now the next thing is we want to take a look at is the automatic bidding. We want to let Facebook just run with the automatic bidding or one of the things kind of a newer feature they have coming out, especially for conversions. You can tell Facebook, hey, go out and get me conversions for under, for example, $5. Facebook won't spend any money if it can't find any conversions under five bucks. Like putting a governor on your ad. Account. Right now, we're not even talking about creatives at this point. We're just talking about putting in full automation. Yep. Now, the next thing that's going to happen with the Power of five is what we were just talking about. This is dynamic ad creative. Now you're going to click the button at the ad set level. What you're going to be able to do is. I love what you did here. Great call, Matt. Great, great, great call. What you did here is you basically put in 10 videos. And like you said, is. It's 10. To be clear, it's 10 videos, five different headlines, five different descriptions, and you can have up to five different buttons. Well, what happens is if you just put general descriptions and this is one of our favorite episodes, it doesn't matter what description goes with what video.

Yep.

Same thing with the headline, which is great. Well, what we have confirmed with our Facebook rep is what Facebook's doing with these dynamic creatives. Again, back up. You are targeting people dynamically. Facebook's going to figure out the placement and Facebook's going to figure out the video. Facebook's going to figure out the headline. Facebook's going to figure out the best description. Now, when I say the headline, the video, and the best description. I didn't say the best description and the best ad. Facebook's actually. You're proving it. Finding the right combination for the right person at the right time. Your videos are having a high quality score now because you're allowing Facebook to pick the placement, pick the headline, pick the post, pick the video that fits best for the person who's looking at the ad.

Yep. That totally makes sense, right? Yep.

And what happens is one last part for the Power of five is you turn on campaign budget optimization. That's one more step, right? That's one more step. That's why I asked audiences, that's saying campaign level. Okay, I'm going to spend $200 a day. Campaign level.

I see what you're saying. Yeah. So with our ad specifically for the cold the top of Funnel videos, I do have campaign buzzer optimization turned on. And then we've got a couple different ad sets, ad groups, I can't remember which one Facebook calls and. But yeah. And so we're basically letting them determine what the best targets are as well.

That's. That's exactly what I was going to say. Exactly. So when you back it up and you turn on campaign budget optimization and you say, okay, Facebook, I'm going to give you four different audiences and four different ad sets in Those four different ad sets, automatic placement, dynamic ad creative, Facebook, you figure all of this out and what the nice thing is, you have all that automation that's going. And again, now they have a new governor setting that can say, hey, I want $5 leads. So I want my target cost, my target CPA, automate everything, as long as you can find me $5 leads wherever they may be through any of the audiences or any of the combinations I've given you.

Wow.

Yeah, I know. It's super powerful.

That just takes all the, like, all the. All that little, you know, lever pulling and all that stuff that. The mystery out of it. If you just allow them to. You put a little, you know, a little barrier around where you're trying to achieve.

Let me give you a quick example. I have a client who's in a launch, and unfortunately, the pixels weren't placed in time. I had two weeks to get as many leads as possible. Turned into five days. I had to get a bunch of leads in five days. Well, if I set it up the way I used to, we're going to spend a bunch of money and hope to see if it works. If we set up everything that I just mentioned at this hour of five, the very first day I talked to the client and I go, hey, what do you want leads for? They go, I want leads for A$25. And I go, okay, Facebook, I'm going to tar. I'm going to create. Essentially, I created 10 different campaigns. Each campaign had six ad sets. That's 60 different ads running. That makes sense so far. Yeah, Right. And I told Facebook, I go, okay, Facebook, I want you to have automatic placement. I want you to do campaign budget optimization, and I want you to do dynamic ad creative on all 10 of these campaigns. So I have lots of different audiences.

Lots of different creatives that are being run right now. And I tell Facebook, okay, my target lead cost is $1.25. So Facebook's gonna run all these different campaigns, all these different creatives, and it's gonna try to get to $1.25 CPA. So actually, by the time you add all this up, I'm at about a $4,500 a day budget by the time I put all the budgets in there. Right? Yep. That's scary the first day, man. That is scary. There are a lot of ads out there. This is scary. Well, if I tell Facebook, hey, Facebook, I want to target my lead cost at a dollar 25. My budgets, $4,500 day one, day one. Facebook spends 220 bucks.

That makes sense. Okay, because you're saying the max there would be 4,500.

Right, right. And I got all this automation set up and the governor of the target cost. So now I go back to my client and I'm like, hey, client, you need leads? Yeah, we need leads.

Okay.

For a dollar 25. Yep. Great. Hey, I told the magic Facebook money machine for our propaganda to get us leads for $1.25. I gave him a budget of 45 bucks. You know how much or $4,500. You know how much they spent yesterday? How much? 200 bucks. Why is that, Kurt? Because that's all the leads they have for $1.25. That's all they got.

Now, if you keep running that campaign, end of day two, day three, day four, does it. Does it sort of peter off and stop working?

Sir, I'm getting into the story.

Okay, sorry, sorry.

Jumping ahead of questions.

Right?

So. So day two. So day two, the client's like, all right, let's. I'm willing to pay a dollar fifty, right? I put in $1.50. I stand back to see what happens and spend 400 bucks. So I go back to the client and I'm like, man, we got some pretty aggressive lead goals. Like, it's budgeted to spend $4,500, and it only spent 400 bucks. Now, there is going to be a little fluctuation in this because what I'm doing is I'm targeting top. This is all top of funnel cold. And I'm saying I need you to convert the same day. So I'm not saying this is a seven day conversion window. I want them to convert this same day. Right. So Facebook's not able to find all those conversions the same day. So what they're. What they do is they only spend 400 bucks. I go back to the client. Day three, client, let's spend two. You set $1.25, but it just is what it is. I'm going to set it at two bucks. I mean, come on, I have 10 different campaigns. Each campaign is six different audiences, 60 different audiences, all the different ad creat creatives. Like, if Facebook can't find you a bunch of leads for two bucks with all these different variables, it's just not going to happen. Does that make sense?

I mean, at that point, it's probably the offer that they're opting in for just isn't that good?

100%. But look, if I stressed it out of all of these audiences and tested it without this target cost of, without this governor man, I would have spent 8,000 or $9,000 in my story so far to go back to tell the client that your offer doesn't work, right? Yep. So in this case, day three, the client says, okay, I'm willing to pay two bucks, $2,200 spent. And I'm like, hey, look, there's a lot of $2 leads. Would you be willing to pay 225? Client goes, actually, I'd be willing to pay 250. And I go, okay, well, let's just adjust the budget a little bit and see what happens. Day four, day five. Day five, 4700 bucks. Whoa. My story is I just went from a couple hundred dollars within five days to 4,500 bucks. And our lead cost is still below our internal goal. I'm not just, not just ramming and jamming. So what ends up happening is a lot of people throw a lot of money away because they're trying to force Facebook to. Let's run in this newsfeed, let's only run for a hundred bucks. Let's only do this. But if we set everything up properly with all of the automation and put up the right governors, we can talk about propaganda in a minute. You could literally go to, from getting 20 leads a day to a thousand leads a day in less than five or six days. By setting up the right automation and governors. We're in a pretty fortunate time right now, gentlemen. I'm pretty excited.

Yeah, that's interesting. So maybe dumb question because I'm not the ads guy of the two of us over here. So if someone's, this is all for cold traffic that you're getting and does this start with pixel, like a pixeled audience? And these are essentially, they're trying to match new folks. So cold audiences on Facebook.

So great question. So I'm going to answer that in a kind of a, kind of a different way. So the strategy I just talked about, we were talking about top of funnel, people clicking on the ad and opting in the same day. What'll happen is with the automation middle of funnel, meaning they've already seen our brand, or bottom of funnel, they've clicked on a sales page. Now what's going to happen is typically like there's this 28 day attribution period. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna change the conversion window from the one day click to the seven day click. Seven day click in view. Right. I wanna allow Facebook optimize for as long as they want. Now what's really important is if you go to the Googles and type in Facebook breakdown effect. My, my Facebook video comes talking about the breakdown effect. And I don't remember if we talked about the breakdown effect last time. I think we may have mentioned it, but briefly maybe. Yeah, Breakdown effect is what a lot of people see is this fluctuation and this variation that they can't explain. So what happens is as we as entrepreneurs, we launch an ad campaign and let's just say our goal for leads is $5 leads. We launched an ad campaign and we spent $300 and leads come in at three bucks. Our goal is five. They came in at three. You feel like a champ. Four or five days go by and lead costs go to four hundred and fifty. We're like, man, I'm still feeling good. Now two weeks go by and your lead cost is at six bucks. And you're like, oh man, wait a minute, did I run out of audience? You're only spending a couple hundred dollars a day. If you're spending thousands of dollars a day, you're going to run through an audience a couple hundred bucks a day. You're not running through an audience. Well, why is your cost going up? What we do as entrepreneurs is we start taking a look. Man, my cost is going up, man. Hang on. I'm three weeks into this and I'm at $7 leads. My goal is five. Crap, I got to turn off my funnel. Well, the thing is, your funnel is not broke. What Facebook does is Facebook has something called the breakdown effect, which means we're going to turn on all this automation and we're going to say, okay, Facebook, go out and find me the best deal. Well, that's what Facebook did. Week one, they found you the best deal. Those are your $3 leads. You thought you were a smart marketer. Facebook actually found the people who were going to convert.

Yeah.

So we're finding the next level. There's no more $3 leads left, dude. It's just not there. They're $4 leads now. Kind of have to get used to it. It's what they are. And how do you know this breakdown effect is happening? Well, most people are turning off their ads too soon. But if you notice week one where you're getting $3 leads and I'll make up these numbers, but you'll start to see this week one, when you're getting $3 leads, you're seeing about a 30% opt in rate. You know, a third of the people are opting in. But week two, that lead cost goes to $4, but the opt in rates 37%.

So it's actually, it looks like Facebook's honing in. I mean, it's more expensive. But the week three, you might be getting $3 clicks, but every other person ops in $6 lead. So now you're like, well, wait a minute. So what happens is why I said, when you Google Facebook breakdown effect, you'll see my video that explains this, that says, look, Facebook's gonna go out and grab the low hanging fruit at first. It's gonna grab the next level of fruit. It's gonna grab the next level of fruit. So it's not that your offer is not working, it's you have to refresh your audience. Most people are turning off their ads before they're actually really starting to to perform because they don't understand this breakdown effect. Does that make sense?

Yep.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah. You gotta give Facebook enough time for the algorithm to find the right place, the right target, the right ad creative. And as soon as it starts to work, most people are shutting it off because they got too greedy in the beginning.

Yeah, interesting. I mean, my mind's already blown by. Just like the fact that you can set a cost per lead and Facebook should go out and find it as many as they can at that cost per lead. Because we've never done that. We've always just bid based on, you know, the amount of impressions or whatever. Right. CPM bidding.

But if you look at conversions, when you're doing lead conversions, I bet you're bidding lowest cost per conversion.

It's the default setting. So what happens is when you start to scale with cbo, you go into the CBO setting, that's the campaign setting, and you'll look down below and it will say, it'll say lowest cost. You take that drop down box and you're going to drop down that box to target cost. So I don't do a target cap because I'm not looking for Facebook to say, hey, I'm only willing to pay $5 leads, but I won't pay 501. I tell Facebook, hey, I'm looking for a target cost called target cost. And what's going to happen is you change it to target cost. And then you go to the ad set level. And at each ad set level it'll say, okay, what do you want your target range to be? Your leads right now are ranging between over the last seven days, it'll say this. Your leads are ranging between 450 and 550. What would you like your Target cost to be. So what I do is I type in, for example, my target cost is five bucks. I'm going to put in five bucks. Facebook will say, we will target leads in between 475 and 550.

So you may get $6 leads, you may get $7 leads. Honestly, you may get 10 or $11 leads because Facebook's trying to figure it out. But you're not going to get 50, $11 leads, which is $555. You may get two or three $11 leads. And you only spent $70 to realize the target cost is too low. Right?

Yeah.

You want to go into the ad set level and hit that target cost. And if Facebook's not spending, you know, you just bump bit more and allow Facebook to spend a little bit more for your acquisition, but it's not going to blow through your budget.

Got it. So the breakdown effect is that fluctuation between the target costs and it trying to figure out who are the best leads for you.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of times what people would do is we get really greedy and we start running lookalike audiences and we get confused because we say, well, I got this lookalike audience of two and a half million people. I was getting leads for $3, $4, man. I'm at seven bucks on week four. I mean, the audience is two and a half million. Obviously, it's my offer. No, that audience segment, Facebook already found all your cheap leads. So one of the things that we teach people, Molly Pittman and I talk about this all the time, is every 30 days, we're refreshing what we call our core audiences. So every 30 days, I'm looking at four new core audiences. That means specific interests. So for instance, people who are interested, like for Facebook ads, since I teach Facebook ads. So what would be four new audiences that I haven't targeted yet that I may consider? Now, this all comes from really good research and marketing. So that may be actually, you know what copywriters, junior copywriters who are getting started out like to write ad copy actually, that I can actually run some creatives to that new segment. Now what's going to happen is because I'm targeting a new target that I haven't targeted before, I exclude from my top of funnel, I exclude all of this bottom and middle of funnel. Right. So this is literally fresh me. Right. They've never seen me before. What I'm also going to do is I'm going to create two new lookalike audiences from the past 30 days. So I know My lookalike audience will always update, but I want to create a new lookalike audience of people who opted in the last 30 days. I want to create a new lookalike audience of people who bought in the last 30 days. And especially I want to do a lookalike audience of people who have watched, like, my best video, the entire thing. So now I have four new core audiences, three new lookalike audiences. I have seven new audiences to test to see if that breakdown affect what the floor is for my lowest cost. So cost is always rising. If people aren't changing out their audiences, most people shut off their audiences and start changing their offer. I'm like, no, create new audiences that have that new floor and make sure that the breakdown effect hasn't happened and it's not your offer. Yeah, again, most their ads too soon.

So if you have a campaign turned on and it's. You have CBO turned on, can I just, like, over time, just go start adding in new ad sets with new targeting in it to that same one that's already got CBO turned on. Or should you be creating new campaigns when you want to go test new ad targets?

This right here should be sold as a course for what I'm gonna. Like, this is. This really dives in really, really deep. This is really great.

It'll be in our notes in the newsletter, by the way.

Okay, great. So one of the things is, is, you know, we all learn from each other as marketers. And in my opinion, you know, a lot of people regurgitate each other's information, which is totally cool. Like, that's what the news does. But the type of business that I've had and the type person that I always am is I always like to credit people where I get really great, unique ideas. And I actually got Jason Hornig's CBO course that he had, and I looked through it, and it really gave me some really good distinctions. So a couple of distinctions I'm going to give you here have come directly from Jason, and they're really quite brilliant. So I like to give them the credit for it. So what happens is a lot of us agree for agency owners that having about six ad sets inside a CBO makes sense. So six ad sets, six different audiences. Right? Now, just imagine you have six ad sets, six different audiences, and let's just say you have a dynamic ad creative for each one of the ad sets. It's the same dynamic ad creative for each one of the ad sets. Now just imagine we have the six ad sets and Imagine our goal lead cost is five bucks.

What we are looking for is the overall campaign. To add average five bucks. We may get a lead for $11. We may get one for $21. We may get seven of them for $1.50. Our average needs to be five bucks.

Gotcha.

That's the most important thing now, because we're idiot humans. What happens is, is when we look at six ad sets and we see one campaign is feeding at a dollar fifty and another campaign's at eleven bucks and another campaign's at twelve bucks, what we do because we're greedy is we turn off the $12 and the $11 ads.

I just did that, like, two days ago, so.

I have a feeling you're going to tell me that wasn't the right thing to do.

Correct, because now you're constricting. Facebook only choose from one specific audience. That's not what they were doing before. They happened to find some of the best audience in that one audience. But they got 11 and $10 leads. The overall average was 6. Still at your goal cost at 5. So if your campaign overall, you'll see you're going to get these 10, 12, $13 leads. But if your campaign overall is at five bucks, great. But if you see that I got a $24 lead, that doesn't work, and you need to turn that off. Okay, now you got five ad sets. Great. Maybe you have four ad sets left. Great. You may add one or two. Right. So you may trim a couple. You may train one or two. You can't trim all three or four. Right. You can't. Having CBO run to one or two audiences is worthless.

Gotcha.

So you may. You may trim one or two, you may add one or two. But right now, we're just talking about ad sets and audiences. At this point, we're not talking about creatives. Right. Just ad sets and audiences. You may trim two, you may add two, and then you may want to just test a whole new campaign, because when you start adding more ad sets, it gets a little wonky. But we're not starting a new campaign yet. We have one more thing left to do. And this is what I got from Jason that was really good. So imagine now you just have four ad sets that are running out of the original six. Your average lead cost is five bucks, and you're scaling a little bit, and the lead costs are staying about the same. Now you want to split test creative. So what Jason recommends is you go in at the ad level.

Create a new ad at each ad Set.

So now what happens is you're forcing Facebook to run the target cost of CBO to run against a new creative that already has established numbers. So instead of running a creative in a brand new audience to retest it all over, Facebook's already optimizing the CBO with your one ad creative. Now you're going to update a new ad creative in each one of those ad sets. Right? It's the same ad creative, but now it's just in each one of the ad sets. Now Facebook's gonna start optimizing that new ad creative or the old one, to see which one's best. So many times before you add audiences, trim the audience, add new ad creatives that Facebook can optimize for. And then if you need to start a new campaign to kind of reset that, then that's when you start a new campaign with new audiences. But to really trim out that cbo, trim out your audiences at the ad set level and then start creating some new ads. Kind of like what you did here is you're like, okay, well, I just have all these are for a dollar a day. You could have created a new ad and then just run that as a dynamic ad.

Does that make sense?

It does, yeah.

Yeah. Small tweaks allowing the automation to take care of everything.

No, I just love all these automations that you could set up. And I think the biggest key is setting them up properly and then following the procedure. It sounds like, like, you know, not going to the bottom and tweaking with, you know, some ads prior to maybe trimming off some audiences.

Well, at the end of the day, you know, Facebook's goal is to make your ads work for you, because the better your ads work, the more money you're going to spend with Facebook. So, you know, and I do think a lot of people think that Facebook is, like, in it for the money. I mean, they are. They're a business. But they think that, like, Facebook's algorithms are designed to get more of your money where really Facebook wants you to be successful, because the more successful you are, the more money you're going to spend with them.

So let's talk about this for just a second. Quality. And here's what's really important. Basically what happens is this. You know, Facebook used to have a quality score, rank you from 1 to 10, right? 10 being the best quality, 1 being the worst quality. We don't even really know what that means specifically. Just a label, right? We don't know what that means. Well, Facebook's branched this off into Three different areas now. So Facebook says, okay, quality score number one, how does your ad compare to all the other ads that are being run to that target audience that you're targeting? So are you just running an ad that says, hey, click here to be smarter and make more money, or people actually seeing that this ad is relevant in the sea of all the other crap out there? So if you just put a little bit of effort in your creative, you could probably outperform a lot of people on that quality score number one. Number two, are people engaging with your ad? Now, I'm not saying do they like your ad and share their ad? Do they look at your ad? Do they click the see more button? Do they read it? Do they watch the video? If it's a video, do they then click on the ad because they want to see something more and then go land on your page? Are they engaging with that piece of content where they want to find out more? Right. So now notice we're not talking about clicks. I didn't say how many people clicked on your ad. So when so many people are like, man, my click through rate is great, great. But Facebook is looking for, the first thing is how am I competing with the other people that I'm advertising to? Not by price, but by quality.

Yeah.

The second thing is Facebook's looking, are people actually clicking on my ad and then going to my website? The third thing that Facebook's looking at is great. Now that they're at your site, are they spending time on your site, looking on your site and are they converting? So notice if we have a relevant experience, Facebook wants it to be relevant, Facebook wants it to be engaging. Facebook wants it to convert. So Facebook, as long as we're congruent, they'll figure out all that stuff. So notice I didn't say you had to have the best headline and bid the most. No, we just have to be highly relevant and let Facebook figure it out. But we have to focus on that relevance.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, from Facebook's perspective, they've got this balance, right? They need to, they need to make money. They need to make the people that are advertising on their platform happy. So they're trying to make it so that, you know, the advertisers are very successful, but at the same time, they need to focus on user experience. They need to make sure people keep coming back to Facebook where if they just let that quality score get away and let people promote whatever they want, it affects the user experience. People start moving away from Facebook. So they have to like constantly toe this line of keeping advertisers happy, but also keeping the user experience in line. So having that sort of multi tier quality score really does make sense if you look at it from that perspective.

And it's similar. Like you could take a lot of this stuff from Google as well. For SEO, it's, you know, the time on site and the experience that you're giving them can give you better, you know, favorable rankings. Ads over there, similar idea. Yeah, I like that.

So I have a question. You may have already explained it in this episode or the previous episode, but what specifically is the belt method?

Great question, I'm glad you asked. We have a whole webinar that explains this, but essentially what it is is I do all this wizardry we can kind of talk about and go through and whatnot. And sometimes what basically happens is it gets a little complicated, right? Like we just kind of dove right on into it right away with this episode. But essentially what ends up happening is I go to this event at Agora, Agora Financial, you know, this billion dollar company. And essentially I always talk about Agora in every single onboarding call that I do with clients. And the reason I always talk about Agora, to set the standard with all of our clients, because I say, look, Agora doesn't look at changing their landing page. Is it blue, yellow, green, purple, brown? I mean they work on that, but they change their story every five to seven days. So let's work on changing our story every five to seven days. And if the story works, let's run it perpetually. And we just basically have lots of different stories that come in the landing page. And they've literally made Agora's made billions at this. So I was invited to Agora and with a gentleman by the name of Todd Brown. And it was 35 media buyers. And we all sat around a table and we talked about media ideas and other people paid to be there so they could watch us talk about ideas. And they came out and they brought out this belt, this WWF looking like belt or whatever, or WWE I guess they call it after 90s old school. Old school, right. So essentially what happens is, is I start sharing ideas. A lot of the ideas that we're talking about here. Now keep in mind, like I told the group there, I train agency owners all across the globe. I'm in a part of a group, has a couple hundred agency owners. I train people who are just starting out their ads. I have a full staff of 15 people who run ads. I speak on stage and teach Ads. So all the things that I'm talking about, everything's documented. So when they bring out this belt, they're like, hey, the winner who has the brightest ideas, who can really help people, is going to win this belt. And I'm like, I'm really competitive. I'm a 40 year old man. I will carry around a belt everywhere I go. Essentially what I told people is all the ideas, just like here, all the ideas I've shared with you, I have them all documented. If you would like to see the documentation to know exactly what to do, I'll give you the link if you vote for me for the belt. Well, the belt became kind of known as, hey, Kurt won this thing by his peers. Nobody really knew why exactly, but everybody took pictures of the belt. We came out to our traffic and conversion. You know, we took lots of pictures of the belt. You guys took pictures with the belt? Like there were lots of pictures with the belt.

Joe's got your original belt hanging in his office right now.

Yeah, I wear it almost daily.

The reason that Joe says that it says that is because the VIP party I had at Traffic and Conversion, someone stole the belt.

Guess what? We were not at that party. So it was not us.

It's true. You guys had a party at the same time. So what ends up happening is now people are following the story of the belt because I have lots of friends and I've taken pictures with lots of very well known people at the belt. And now the belt gets stolen. And I tell people the belt gets stolen. And everyone asked me this, even at dinner last night. Tom Brees goes to the bathroom. It's just Dennis Wu and I. And Dennis goes, kurt, between you and I, did that belt really get stolen? And I'm like, man, I couldn't make up a better story. Yes, the belt actually got stolen. And then my business partner Nick and I, we had talked about this and we're like, man, there's so many things that we explained. Why don't we make this super easy? Let's make this fun. You got a belt? Well, let's think of an acronym. Belief top of funnel engagement. You want to get people to engage, then you want them to become a lead. L T transact. Wait a minute. Now we just have an easy acronym for this belt method of stuff that we've been using for years. Now. Keep in mind, we have not had an ad account shut down in three and a half years. And I was personally sued by Facebook. So they watch me very closely. Because if you haven't Heard my story before. I actually signed an agreement with Facebook. If I violate the terms of use, the terms of use, that means if I have an image that's a little out of whack, whatever. I've signed an agreement. Facebook can find me $40,000 payable within.

Five days and hear the whole story. Go back to the previous episode. He'll explain it all.

But I can show you how to be ethical. I can show you how to do the right thing. And literally this is how a president got elected. And then we'll talk about propaganda. But I've turned this belt into an acronym that now we train people on the methodology, same methodology I've used for a presidential candidate who's running for presidential office right now in the United States. But what we've been able to do is with an easy acronym, we now host three day events that includes belts and tacos and tequila and themes. So we've taken these really complex things that we used to do before and made them really simple and super fun to understand and. And lots of people are implementing it. You guys are too, and just crushing it. Which is amazing to hear.

I love it. Now, we did, you know, getting into the sort of the propaganda topic, we opened a loop earlier when we mentioned Wendy Hart. She'll probably actually be on the podcast at some point because she teaches people how to get past like procrastination and stuff like that, mental blocks and things like that. So we're gonna have her on the show. But we, we talked to her at Podcast Movement and she was talking about the strategy where when she goes to events, she actually runs ads in that local area. And that was something that came directly from you. So let's get into some of the interesting ways that you get into people's heads without them realizing you're getting in their heads.

Oh, I love this stuff. Okay, so a couple of different things. So just remember the Facebook algorithm itself, right? There's over 150,000. There's probably more. 150,000 different equations in the news feed to make the newsfeed literally your personalized newspaper. Right? It's exactly what it is, personalized newspaper. Okay, well, let's take a look for just a history for just a second. And let's take a look what's going on right now in China. China has WeChat. Justin Brooks was talking about this a couple months ago. WeChat sells lots of commerce in China, a lot of it by influencers. So Betty Crocker had like the Betty Crocker name, not a Lot of people even remember what Betty even looks like. You got the state or you got the Pillsbury Doughboy. So that was kind of a logo. But people in China right now are building or buying off people, not big brands. So people want to do business with people like you, not necessarily big brands. So we can manufacture this relationship with people very easily. We don't need big brands to do this. So what happens is, for example, as we go out to, let's just say, traffic and conversion. Now, I've mentioned traffic and conversion a lot. And just be really clear. I've known these guys from the very beginning. I buy tickets every single year to their events. So even though I have my private parties, I still pay to go to all the events because I want to sponsor those guys because what they've done for the industry is amazing. But for me, I have a boutique agency. So for me to rent a booth for $10,000, whatever the price is, right, to rent a booth for $10,000, well, first of all, you have to have the booth. You have to have staff. You have to have people to be there. Obviously. Set up the booth, man, the booth. Now you got to give something out. You got to give some tchotchke. Now you're gonna have lots of conversations. There's a lot of things that can happen at the booth. But, man, could you imagine board and lodging and booth rental and blah, blah. This gets expensive, right? I could easily be at 20 grand easily just to get some business. Well, as I mentioned, I can do quarter, quarter million dollar business and more at the event easily. And the way that I do that is this. I decide not to get the event because I don't have the staff to come down. Yes, I think it's a good deal if you have the staff, that can be for you. But what about if you're a boutique person? How do you compete with everyone else when you don't have 30 or $50,000 or $100,000 to drop as a platinum sponsorship? So what I do is. I know, okay, well, there's going to be 10,000 people at this zip code of traffic and conversion, by the way, I'm going to tell you exactly what I do. And even if you do it, you're still not going to compete against me. So much fun, right? Because people who are following you, they'll see you, right? What I basically do is I know that there are going to be 10,000 people in the zip code. Great. Now, all year long, I run something. Check the last episode called Hot 28. So if you look, same thing that these guys are doing too. If you look at their ad, touch their ad, engage with their ad, it resets this 28 day timer. So this warm audience, this hot 28 day audience just keeps growing and growing. And I'm always marketing and they're seeing this digital newspaper. Well, now it's time for traffic and conversion. So, all right, traffic and conversion. Hey, anybody who happens to be in this zip code, you can always, you can get it down to the address. Now, anybody who's at this address, who's in my hot 28, I know that they know me. I know that they're in town. Right. So now what's going to happen is I'm targeting a very small segment. I'm probably only targeting 2 or 3,000 people. Let's repeat that again. I'm actually targeting 2 to 3,000 people who are at the conference.

Yeah, I mean that's, that's like 30% of the conference. That's still a pretty big number, like in comparison to the conference.

Right, exactly. So now what I may have is I may have 10 different ads that are running for a dollar a day to that very, very small market. And it's showing me at the event. Hey, I'm heading down to Traffic and Conversion. Hey. One of the things I just learned at Traffic and Conversion. So for me, last year was great because or the year before, Ryan Dice, on the opening keynote, talked about me and showed a picture of my profile and talked about me for five minutes on stage. I took a picture of Ryan talking about me that I ran for an ad so that memory recall kept happening. And then I would take pictures through the event like, Molly Pittman's a good friend. I take pictures of her. I take pictures. Ezra's a good friend. I take pictures with Ezra. So then I would have pictures of Molly and me and Ezra and me running in the newsfeed of my Hot 28, so people know I'm in that area.

I love that recall effect, man.

All the speakers, Joe and I, we actually spoke at War Room recently and we, and we have video footage of us on stage with Ryan Dice. You know, Ryan literally saying, these are my go to guys when it comes to podcasting. And I'm just sitting here as you're saying this, going, holy shit, this is going to be awesome this year.

So if you guys remember two years ago, if I remember right, two years ago you guys came out to my party. Yes, yes. I took a bunch of pictures out there and I was running those in the newsfeed as carousel ads. That's when Mike Yang from manychat, he was out there. He was just getting introduced to everybody. Molly Pittman was out there, Mike Rhodes was out there, Tom Breeze was out there, took pictures with you guys out there. And I put those all in my news feeds retargeting ads. Now I'm hanging out with everyone at that private party that I told you about. So my propaganda in front of 3,000 people is like, dude, Kurt is everywhere. He's been talked about by Ryan Dice. He's hanging out with what, what is, what was, what is Frank Shamrock doing a Kurt's party?

What the hell? Now people are talking about it. Now keep in mind, like I said, I may be, let's just say have 10 posts running for a dollar a day. That's 10 bucks to 3,000 people. They're gonna see my ad. So I am running, just to be clear, I am running 15 second video. I'm running 15 second in stream videos.

Okay?

It's a penny of you. Hey everybody, Matt and Joe. Hey everybody, this is Matt and Joe. We're gonna be out at blah blah podcast world. See you there. They don't even need to click on anything. You want people to see that for a penny. I'm also gonna be doing reach ads. That means I'm gonna do an image, a long form post, and I'm gonna say I want to reach. I want to reach this audience a maximum of four times in a set amount of days. You get a set. I'm going to reach a reach program. I'm going to use this creative to reach people. And I want people to see this creative in two days, at least four times. So that's basically. So now I'm running video views in stream. I'll run landing page clicks, I'll run impressions and I'll run reach. That makes sense so far.

Are those reach ads to a new audience or the same audience?

Same audience. Because we're targeting, we're targeting people by different modalities. Some people will watch the 15 seconds, some people click. Some people will just see the impression. I don't even need people to click on my ad when they're seeing my picture of you guys and micros and stuff like that. I just need to know that I'm there.

Got it now.

Okay, Everything that I've just told you there, the time that we do the dollar a day stuff, landing page clicks, reach ads, Maybe I'm spending $50 a day, maybe, maybe that's to my warm audience. And at $50 a day. Come on. I'm completely saturating 3,000 people with reach ads, video view ads. Like I've just, they're gonna see me over and over.

Yeah.

That means I can target 30 or 40 different interest at that address and have a pretty high probability that I'm probably gonna reach a lot of other people in the crowd who aren't my husband. Not 28.

Yeah, yeah. Like virginal marketer fans of Ryan Dice.

Gotcha. Yes.

Hang on, hang on, hang on. Let's go with that stream what you were just saying, Matt. So we're going to target every single sponsor that's listed in the book that you get when you first check in.

Right. Some people you'll be able to target, some people you won't. But you're going to target in that zip code. That's it. And you're going to target like okay, what will, who would be a digital marketer? I'll just go a couple things off top of my head. Digital marketing, digital marketer, digital marketing enthusiast, digital marketing representative, digital. I could probably come up with 40 of these. Yeah, well if I come up with 40 of these, that's one audience at that zip code. I'm spending 50 bucks on my warm audience a day. 50 bucks on this cold ass audience that has a very high probability of being the right people in this group. I spend $100 a day for a three day event. I spent $300. I spend $1500 to host my party. I am less than $2000 in for quarter of a million dollars in sales. I'm not talking about it. I'm not talking. That's cool. I'm not talking about a booth. I'm not talking about serenading anybody. I'm not talking about steak dinners.

Yeah, it's just conversations. Yeah, you can't shake that many hands if you're, if you're trying to do that being a sponsor.

So, so basically the end goal of all of this is just to get this massive exposure, get people coming up to you and going holy shit, I see you everywhere. How do I do that for my business? And then that's when you turn on the closer in you and land a client.

Interesting thing is, remember I'm not running the same ad. So I'm not running just one ad that says buy my shit, buy my shit, buy my shit. So they may see me for example, having an interview with you guys. Like one of the things that I'm working on right now, I just had a great podcast with, with Mike Dillard. And I know he was on your podcast recently, and I say you guys got the connection, which is great. Thank you. Here's what I recognize, though. Here's a big aha. Hopefully for you guys, this was a huge. For me because I want to work with you guys on this very. I'll say this publicly very much. This very fun. What I noticed is, you know, I love teaching these three day events. When Mike had me on his podcast, we got floored and flooded with requests. And it really made me think, wait a minute. If people hear me for the very first time, edified by a third party, that's a lot more powerful than me running cold ads. Well, I'm going to be running ads to all the podcasts that I'm on. Same thing with you all. So when people see me for the very first time, it's not my shiny stuff as an ad, it's you guys talking about me. And I'm just helping out your podcast. You're helping actually edify me before people even get into my funnel.

Yes. I saw your ad for Mike Dillard and it looked great.

Yeah, I want to. I'm gonna do the same thing for the one we did before and this one. So I'm always at the top of your podcast list. I'm always at the top of your mind. But this is also the way that you and I are building relationships as well, because you're gonna post on your podcast to say, hey, here's some of the top guests.

Yep.

I'm gonna be manufacturing by sending traffic on a regular basis. So when I show up to traffic and conversion, I turn on my Hot 28 audience. Out of all the interviews that I've done and the cold audience too, I'm walking through the halls. Dude, you got pictures with. With Mike Yang from manychat. I heard you on Mike Dillard's podcast. Dude, you were on so and so's podcast, spending less than $100 a day.

Yeah, no, I love it. You know, this is interesting, the whole podcast concept. Since we're kind of going down this rabbit hole. I was actually looking at our Wicked Reports account the other day. And from us being on other people's podcasts, that has actually been our most profitable action that we've done in our business is go on other people's podcasts. So it's just, it's.

Oh, dude, it's. It's so powerful. And all this stuff is just primer to have a conversation. It's like you can skip a lot of the. Hey, get to know you or. Oh, what are you all about? The trust factor. All that stuff's already done, and you can automate that through either. Going on shows, doing these ads.

Yeah. So speaking of, there's this guy named Tom Breeze. He does this thing on YouTube.

Yep.

We're trying to figure out this whole propaganda thing. So while I've been on the interview with you, my girlfriend has messaged Tom to invite him over for dinner so we can talk about propaganda. So Tom's actually standing right in front of me because you asked how my girlfriend takes care of me. She's made an amazing meal. Now Tom's here, so we can talk about propaganda, I'm pretty sure.

Tell Tom to jump on the mic so we can say hello.

Yeah, say hi.

Okay. Hang on a second. Hang on.

Say hello. You know Matt Wolf and Joe. Oh, yeah. How you doing?

What's up, Tom?

Tom, you're making a second appearance on the podcast now.

That's awesome.

Well, have fun at the event tomorrow.

Thank you very much. Yeah.

That'S awesome.

How are you guys? You good?

Doing good. Just middle of a podcast interview, but it's always fun with Curtis. Mr. Curtis.

Dude, I would love to be a fly on the wall in the meeting when. When Kurt and Tom and Dennis, you are all hanging out, eating dinner together. That's like. Like, that is. I don't know how much money would be made just by listening in on that conversation.

Should have recorded it. We should have recorded a few conversations yesterday.

It's what we heard.

Yeah, but we'll do like a. Why don't you call the podcast us three, and we'll discuss.

Yeah, let's do a recap after this crazy whirlwind of events, and we'll recap everything on the air.

Awesome.

I promise not to ruin your podcast any longer. And we.

We purposely asked Kurt to ruin it.

See you, brother. That should get a higher ranking because there's a gu. There's a guest to Tom Breeze on the show, too.

That's awesome. That's never happened. It's just guest appearance randomly. So we got to put that in the show notes.

We'll have to.

We'll have to put. Now, this episode is with Kurt, Molly and Tom Brees.

Actually, Sue, I'll tell you one other of a small, little quick story here, and you guys have experienced this, but I love to invite people to do this whenever you get a chance to come to Austin. Right. We like to have a lot of fun times. And one of the things, when I was hanging out with Dennis Wu, Last night is Dennis gave me the idea for a dollar a day. I've never done any business with Dennis before. I've just followed him online. I've seen what he's done. So when I had a chance to meet him at Digital Marketer a couple of months ago, I just wanted to buy him dinner. I just want to tell him thank you over and over and over. And sometimes that makes people feel a little weird. But whenever I know that they're coming in town. We did the same thing with you guys.

Right.

It's like, let's go have a fun experience.

Yeah.

What I love to do, and especially the business that we're in, is I have this fancy apartment that I just signed another lease on for another year that I love that has this beautiful view of the city. And you guys know this. You come here and I'm looking for deeper conversations. So what I like to do is I like to bribe people with barbecue. Like I bribed you all. Let's go on scooter rides. Tom and I did that last night. You can see we did do this date thing on a regular basis. Right. Scooters are a lot of fun. And then you come up and you look at the sunset at the bar that I have. It's a private bar right above my place. This is all styled around. And you notice that I've mentioned over and over and over deeper conversations.

Yes.

So I feel really fortunate that literally I gotta have dinner with one of the world's top YouTube advertisers. And all it is is just because we just, we want to have just deeper conversations. And I learned so much more. So if nothing else, this propaganda doesn't have to be your best marketing and headline. Click. It doesn't even have to be like, buy my shiny shit. When you're at traffic and conversion, it literally can just be a couple of podcast interviews. People get to know you personally and then just spending time with you a little bit more one on one, instead of having the perfect offer at the event. They just need to know that you're there and that you have interesting things to talk about.

That's it. You're right. You don't need a fancy funnel or any of that stuff. You don't need to be a smooth closer on the phone or whatever. It is just conversations and trust.

Yeah.

And when other people are talking about you like podcasts now, you don't have to sell anything. People walk up and they're like, oh, my good. Matt and Joe said X, Y and Z about you. I Just want to do business with you.

That's right. I love it. Well, damn it, Kurt. I feel like we can talk for probably two more hours and have like a three hour long podcast episode. And I would love it and I think our listeners would love it, but I actually have a parent teacher conference to get to and I know you got Tom Breeze waiting over in the wings for you.

So an expensive dude over there, he's going to drink a ton.

So where do you want people to go after listening to this episode?

You know, we were actually just talking about this last night with Dennis and Tom. This is great. So essentially the thing is just go check out my personal profile. Curt, Molly, C U R T M A L Y. If you want to check out the belt, you can go ahead and check out the belt, the fan page. And I'll just tell you, once you watch a video, you'll see lots of my videos. So, like, you don't have to opt in anything. If you, if you do want to see how the belt method works, we do have the, it's, it's called the belt. So the belt live forward slash training and the belt live forward slash training, essentially what that does is it tells you all about what the belt methodology is. Now, to be very clear what you'll learn about my brand, I'm not like, hey, opt in and we're just going to give you the 20,000 foot view. If you buy my 5,000, $10,000 and $20,000 course, you'll learn more. I'll explain the entire methodology and then I do have a three day class where we teach this. But a lot of it, what ends up happening is if you just understand the methodology itself, you can really start adjusting ads on your own. And then literally just following my fan page or my personal page, you'll get a lot of content that you can implement on your own. And the one thing that Tom and I and Dennis were talking about last night that I'm really excited about, and if you follow me personally, you'll see this. I'm actually going to take my very first program. The way that I met Matt. I'm going to take my very first program, social media Add genius. We're going to make a couple updates to it and we're just going to give it out for free. So when I do calls like this, I can say, well, if you want to learn this and you're not ready to spend money in the agency, just go to our free course. My free course is something that people would pay $1,200 a year for. So we're just about ready to fine tune that. So if you follow me, I'll make sure I give you access to the free course. But this is a free course that's been around for five years, been sold all over the world. It's been updated lots of different times, but we just want to give this away for free. Instead of lead magnets, we just want to be like, look, Tom said it best last night. I want to give it to you for free. And if you want training and one on one support education, we can help you with that. But man, we just want to help more people and give away more free information that they can implement.

I love it. I've been through every single video inside of social media ad genius and it is freaking gold.

So the fact that you're giving that away just means a ton too. And yeah, that's just really cool. So go check that out. And the way that you give content on Facebook is just so entertaining and. And it's an immersive way to learn all this stuff too, so it's perfect.

Cool. Kurt, well, thanks so much for spending the time. I know this is round two, and it definitely will not be our last round. Never. Yeah. Looking forward to chatting again soon. And thanks for hanging out with us.

Yes. I cannot wait to promote this podcast into my propaganda. My propaganda is strong and I cannot wait to send them more and more traffic. So I'm always your number one guest.

Thanks, brother. I appreciate it.

All right, man, talk to you soon.

See you.

Thanks. Bye.

Thanks, everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. For taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com, find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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