Curt Maly — Unique Facebook Strategies Making People Rich

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Flowchart with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf. What's up, everybody? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. My name is Matt Wolf and I am here with my beautiful co host and his pink microphone.

It's cute.

Joe Fear.

Hashtag pinkmike.

The hashtag is not going to catch on, Joe.

Catching on.

Give it up.

I checked Twitter. It's blowing up.

How many people have used it?

Me.

Okay, so he's my wife personally using the hashtag pink microphone or is it pink mic, Pink Mike. Pink Mike.

I don't know. Whatever you want. I'm gonna get Kurt to like create some cool campaign around this thing.

To what end?

No end.

I don't know.

Oh my God.

Okay.

Anyway, hey, Kurt commented that he likes my pink mic.

I'm sure he likes your pinky. All right, so today we already alluded we're talking to Kurt Molly, Kurt Mahle. When I was running learn to blog with my partner Bradley Will. At the time, Kurt was our Facebook ads guy and I actually talk about it on the episode, but he basically helped us scale the hell out of our business through Facebook ads, like quick. And he's pretty much been like my Facebook guru ever since. He has an interesting story. He actually got booted off of Facebook for almost two and a half years, but they finally let him back in and he's going to tell you that story. But we are gonna dive so deep on some ninja Facebook ad stuff. This is gonna be one of those episodes where you're probably gonna need to listen to three or four times because he drops some amazing stuff. I mean, Joe and I were literally sitting here like taking notes going, holy crap, this is gold. We need to go do this right now. You know, strategies to grow podcasts, strategies if you wanna be a filmmaker, how to get reach with the filmmaking, how.

To be how to basically create these audiences within Facebook that you ninja little tactics and show them very specific kind of content that's gonna really. That's not expensive. For one, he's big on just dollar day strategies, $2 like penny clicks and engagements. But there's stuff. He gives you actionable plans on how to actually put specific content in front of these folks so they're taking action, buying your stuff and doing whatever else you want them to do.

Yeah, I mean it's a wide ranging conversation around Facebook ads. We go all over the place and just get all sorts of tactics and strategies and we're actually gonn round two because we Even have more places we want to go with Kurt. But one thing that if you want a little cheat sheet Cliff note version of this episode, if you go to evergreenprofits.com, search for the Kurt Molly episode, it may be on the front page depending on when you're listening to this and go into the show notes. And we have a little link where you can actually get the cheat sheet version of our episodes. A little kind of follow along companion guide with notes about what we talked about to, to help lock in some of this stuff. So make sure you go to evergreenprofits.com and grab the cheat sheet. And if you haven't already, we would really appreciate a subscription on itunes. So if you haven't already, subscribe on itunes. That is the biggest thank you you can do for us. If you're enjoying this stuff, subscribe. That's really, really annoying. Joe's just chanting subscribe. So you should subscribe. Go to evergreenprofits.com, get the cheat sheet. Go subscribe to us on iTunes@hustleandflowchart.com and you rock. And let's just go talk to Kurt now.

It's a good one.

What's up, Kurt? Thanks for joining us. How you doing?

Hey, amazing.

How are you?

Good, good.

So I have a question. Is your last name pronounced Kurt Molly or Kurt Malley? I think I've known you for about eight or nine. Seven or eight, nine. I don't know, a lot of years now. And I've never known the answer to that question. So important question that is Molly.

Like M O, L, L, Y.

Okay, Kurt Molly. Good.

Yeah, I'll stop calling you Kurt Mali. Go on the stage. And they're like, mali. And they're like, why don't you ever correct people? And I'm like, the check cash is the same. It doesn't really matter. It's fine.

It's like me with fear and fire. Same family, whatever. Roll with it, you know, own it.

Yeah, everybody seems to call him Joe.

Fire but Matt Wolfie. Yeah, we're all good here.

You know what is random? When I was in elementary school, my, like, even my teachers would call me Matt Wolfe. I'm like, do you really think that E is pronounced like a Y? Like, who does that? Okay, anyway, random rants name.

So you and I, how far back do we go? We probably go back, what, seven or eight years or so.

Seven or eight years. I was trying to think where we originally met. I know we worked together seven years ago.

We met through Bradley, my Old business partner at Learn2Blog.

Bradley.

Will. Bradley, Will.

That's right. Because I remember working with you. I'm just trying to think. I'm like, where did we actually meet at? But that's right. Yeah.

And run.

Learn to blog.

Yeah. So I think you and Bradley went back a ways from previous industries or real estate or something. I don't remember exactly what it was.

Network marketing slash, real estate slash opportunity, slash. We're going to make a whole bunch of money in an economy that's going like that. Yeah.

Good times.

But, yeah, I mean, we worked together at Learn to Blog. We were the guy that ran all of our ads for us. And I think before we started working with you, we were probably running about $1,000 to $2,000 a month in advertising. And then, like, within six weeks of working with you, we were running about $30,000 a month in advertising.

Because I was like, all right, how are we going to talk into Matt to spend him more money? Matt's like, how are we gonna do this? And I'm like, okay, I know we're gonna talk him into doing this, but hang on a second.

He's a hard nut to crack sometime, Matt. I mean, he needs to have all this proved.

Yeah, but I'm stubborn as shit.

That's a cool little story, man. I mean, so for the listeners, who the hell are you? What's your. You don't have to go into the crazy details, but, yeah. What are you doing, man?

Yeah. How did you get into the advertising world?

Great question. My name is Kurt Mulle. I live in the beautiful city of Austin, Texas, as you gentlemen know, with a place that overlooks the city. One of my favorite, I like to call the layer in the sky. I've been in this business 10 plus years. Essentially, what happened is where I met your old business partner is an old network marketing company. And I basically got out of corporate America. 2007, told everybody. 2006, 2007 told everybody, hey, I'm going to get into real estate investing. I jump into real estate investing because.

Like, I don't know what I'm doing.

And then I pull out $40,000 in home equity. I pull that out, and now it's the first time as an entrepreneur, I just had a whole bunch of money, which I didn't really know what I was doing. And if you notice, the theme is, like, basically get into the NFL club, which I didn't have any funds left. I had no friends left. I wasn't having any fun left. Like, I don't Suck. So. So about 2007, I started advertising for small businesses, just locally. And one thing happens to another. I meet a guy by the name of Mike Dillard. He wants to have coffee. For some strange reason, we end up having coffee. He says he'll help us create one of our first online products very quickly. All of a sudden, he asked me to run his Facebook ads for people who don't know who Mike is. He's somebody who had made 35 million at this point online. And now I go to this place called the Internet marketing party here in Austin, Texas, and I tell people I run Mike Dillard's ads. Why don't I run yours? Well now let's fast forward. We're here 10 years later and essentially we're with celebrities who's who Just kind of real quick on this. This is. Sorry, I just had a quick alert sneeze. Antonio spurs, reality TV stars. We help a lot of people become New York Times bestselling authors. What I really like to do is people can sell anything on Facebook. I really specialize in Facebook. Do a little bit of Google, specialize a lot of stuff in video, but you can sell hand cream or whatever you want. I'm really passionate in stuff that will change the world that we can actually monetize as well. We can make money in a way that we want to. So I'm really passionate about helping teachers best selling authors who really give people information that can really help change their life and hear the stories. That's what our ad agency focuses on. Now I have an ad agency, digital training products. I speak on stage and I love doing this stuff.

Awesome. I don't know if you want to talk about this. I mean, we can edit it out if you don't.

Anything.

Yes.

Love it.

So at one point you kind of got kicked off of Facebook. Do you want to tell that story and how that came around?

Absolutely, yes. So what happens is this is what happens when you're being a trailblazer. Right. Somebody has to set the rules. That's the way I look at it. Anyway, what ends up happening is in 2014. So this would be in November 2014.

November 2014, I had over 20 ad accounts for clients that were shut down. So at that time, you could spend millions of dollars because you were a client at the time. You could spend millions of dollars a month with Facebook and no one would ever call you. There's no customer service. And if something happens, you have to take a wild guess what happens. Well, when you have someone like you are all Paying us four or five thousand dollars a month for us to run your ads. You're paying us money. Your ads are shut off. I have no customer service. I have clients like Russell Brunson, Leadpages, Evan Pagan. I have all these amazing clients and I'm like, no, no, no. These are products that are not hype, but literally products that can help change the world. They're really good people doing really good things. Facebook, I'm looking for some help and support. Well, down that path, one of my employees introduced me to an employee at Facebook. Over the next three months, that Facebook rep started to help us answer some of our customer service questions. And then by the time that she left Facebook, Facebook said that she gave us proprietary, confidential information. They didn't like the relationship. And for over 888 days, I was off of Facebook. Personally, I wasn't allowed to have employees that would touch Facebook. I wasn't allowed to have third party tools. I sat on the sidelines, coached and consulted. And back In October of 2017, I got the blessing back from Facebook, signed a legal letter that basically said, I am whitelisted. Kurt, please play nice. And I am here today.

So basically, so you had some information from an ad rep, and you were kind of out there sharing the information from the ad rep and then later found out like, oh, shit, I wasn't supposed to be sharing that information.

Well, sir, this was very early on, before they really had ad reps. So the thing is that's interesting is what will happen is basically this is Facebook will select who they want to work with. This isn't like you're buying a bunch of cars, so you have the district manager that they decide on who they want to work with. So customer service decides who they want to reply to. So if you're running a business where Matt is writing me a check every month so I can play my employees, someone waiting to follow up on an answer like, just doesn't really help. The employee that I met was actually in compliance, so it wasn't an ad rep. She helped me find someone who was an ad rep. They didn't return my phone calls, Customer service didn't return my emails. And this person said these other avenues, I don't know why, aren't working. You're asking all the right questions. I will help you. And I said very clearly, and I'm happy to go and recognize this because I said this over and over. I told her, look, I know people in this industry that fly out their reps to Vegas with cocaine and prostitutes and I am not looking to have that relationship. I have great people in the world that they have some questions. I'm not asking to break any rules. I don't want you to do anything different. If you can point me in the right direction, that's fine. I just want to. I want help for these guys who do this blogging thing, who teach stay at home moms how to blog, and it gives them an income source. It's not a work at home project. That's it. So all I want to do is help people. And that's essentially what she did. So it wasn't that I was sharing information that was internal. Facebook didn't like the relationship with her because she had an internal problem already with Facebook. I'm just kind of a bystander. And all of a sudden I'm a guy speaking on stage who's been completely wiped off of Facebook. And it's not because this big conspiracy, because I was giving people the code of the Facebooks. You guys now know as much as I do. So whatever she traded with us, it's not that I made more money. It's not that I did something black hat. But I will say this one last quick thing. I was judged for two and a half years because of the way. Because there's no case precedent, nothing. They own the island is 100% up to them. So when the lawyers started to do investigations on me to find out more about me, and they researched me, they found my program, my digital program, social media ad genius on black hat sites. Meaning someone took my program. As you guys already know, Matt knows this, took my program, stole it, and was selling access to it. But when Facebook ran a Google search, Facebook says, oh, you're selling black hat services on these black hat sites. So this is. Have you banned. And I'm like, I just want, like, a lawyer. No lawyer doesn't even help. I just want. So the only thing that I could do is write the Facebook lawyer every 10 days, an emotional letter to appeal to them as a human. And after two and a half years, I think we're finally like, bye, take it.

Just stop freaking writing us.

We're over it. Dang, that's a hell of a story. And what do you do on the sidelines? Like, were you just teaching strategy to clients privately or what were you doing there?

By the way, if you haven't really realized this from hanging out with me a little bit, love telling stories. Right?

By the way, you're. You're fucking fun to hang out with in Austin. Like, that Was the best, perfect, like the best night we could think of, just riding scooters around Austin, eating barbecue and just having a good old time. But telling stories was part of it.

It's just fascinating just to lay the land a little bit like this is. I love this business because what I love to be able to do is connect with people like yourself. I told you the story, Libra. I'll tell you this and I'll go back to Facebook is one of the things that I love to do is I love the city of Austin because it gave me the opportunity we are talking about right here. Because the people that I've met, I'm really fortunate because the place I get to live, where you guys have seen, overlooks the city. So I get to talk to smart people like these amazing entrepreneurs to come and have a great conversation out there. And then maybe we'll ride some scooters to get some barbecue. But it's an amazing view around here and we just hang out. But it's just the three of us. There's not 50 people around. So, for example, it was you all. And then two nights ago, it was Molly Pittman. The other person, Lindsey, who was putting on the conference for manychat, a director of seven different documentaries. Last night was that same director his business partner. A client of mine I worked with two years ago, Molly Pittman and her other business partner. Like, I love to entertain smart people up here.

So, yeah, man, you're doing it good.

That was the best. That was the best day of the entire trip of Austin was just hanging out with you, Scootering, getting some barbecue and doing some other stuff back at your apartment that we won't get into right now. But it was a good day.

It's all good. Love it.

Just bribing, that's all you're doing. Yeah, yeah. Gotta squeeze just a little bit. Hey, man. So.

At the end of the day, the question goes back to sidelines. So what's interesting is we're sitting here, we hire lawyers, we basically deplete our bank account. $40,000, whatever cash is all we have left. And we basically realize that, look, the lawyers are trying to fight against somebody that doesn't have any case precedent.

Let's just get rid of our lawyers. But basically, before we do that, just say this. We'll just work with Facebook. I'm going to sell my business. Lawyers look great. And I'm like, I'm going to sell my business and I'll just sit by the sidelines and help people consult. But I Won't do any of the rules that Facebook give me. I'm going to 100% follow them. I will not dial in with a VPN. I will not, blah, blah. Don't want to play that game. I've always wanted to do the right thing. So I will stand on the sidelines and do this. And they go, great, who are you selling your business to? And I go, molly, marketing. And they go, you can't do that. And I go, my brother's had an ad agency for the last 13 years. I'm just gonna teach him my principles. So I go out, meet smart people like yourself. They want to do business with us. I say, great. I take them through the onboarding process, consult them, hand them over to my brother. He has 14 employees. He follows all the rules. He has a Facebook rep. Facebook loves him. And the lawyers do what you guys just did.

They're like, okay, all right.

Don't see anything wrong there.

Yeah.

I would go to events and all of a sudden, this is the amazing part of the story, in my personal opinion is what ends up happening is when Facebook sues me. I get this fancy apartment that I live in now. I leave a 10 year relationship. I don't know what I'm going to do. I think I'm going to get kicked out. And this is an entrepreneur. By surrounding myself with great entrepreneurs. I love coming on podcasts and listen to podcasts like this because other entrepreneurs have the same story. So I surrounded myself with a bunch of other entrepreneurs. One person who had been sued by Oprah, figure I've been sued by Zuck. This was great. And it was really, that mindset shift by surrounding myself with some really great people. Within two weeks, they sold $35,000 of consulting. And my life really changed. Where I got to sit on the sidelines. Now I don't have employees, which I found out I really like that fact. Has all the employees. And it's really the best situation. So he runs all that. And it's really one of the best, one of the best things could happen to us. I love working with my brother.

So how cool is that? Is he out in Austin with you as well?

No, he's in Nebraska. So he has, he has a couple of kids in Nebraska. That's where my parents, that's where my mom lives. And he just likes doing tourism in Nebraska. Does a bunch of other really unique government clients, hangs out with his kids, and we just work remote.

Perfect. So cool. That's awesome.

Let's talk about some, some Facebook ad strategy. Type stuff because.

Please don't ask me.

Any about math and facts because I am horrible at this stuff. But go ahead.

We could probably. We could probably dance around the math and facts a little bit.

That's ok. My favorite subject, by the way. Favorite subject.

But when we were in Austin and hanging out, you know, we just, we covered so much ground and unfortunately a lot of the ground we covered didn't totally stick. So we're going to recover some ground that we covered in Austin.

Literally that night when we came back to our hotel room, I think we just passed out. But next day we're like, oh shit, what did Kurt say? Let's just jot down as fast as we could remember.

By the way, I love this stuff. Differently large industry events. I'll have like VIP parties. Not where I spend tons of money, but I invite. You guys have been there where I invite just a really great group of people and spend a little bit on liquor. But my favorite thing is I'll be drinking my hand all night long, but I'm not getting drunk. I'll have conversations at 4:00 in the morning. And I love this. So I'll memorize the whole thing. And people are like, I know you've been drinking all night. And I'm like, no, dude, I've been waiting all night long for this conversation.

I remember.

I'm happy. So whatever you guys would like to ask me, I'm happy to repeat what we went over.

Perfect.

All right, so where should we start, Joe? Well, I mean, we're looking. We don't normally do videos, so you're seeing us look over here. That's because we got a whiteboard here with like tons of topics to cover.

If we hear something that's pretty cool. We're talking about mini chat already with Molly Pittman. She's gonna be on the show in the future here pretty soon. Here we've been chatting. You have probably the coolest mini chat sequence for your social media. You know, the 2.0 that you have out there and it's absolutely amazing. I guess.

Well, let's Talk about what ManyChat is first and then maybe talk about the sequence a little bit.

Let's do that.

Yeah, happy to. So for the people listening about Internet marketing, what we're really referring to is Facebook Messenger. So Facebook messenger itself can be really powerful. Lots of people like to use it, especially on their cell phones. And the age usage is all crossing. 18 year olds to 75 year olds are all using messenger and their thumbs because they're on phone. Now, essentially what ManyChat is, or I like Manny M A N Y Manychat. I'll call it Manny for whatever stupid reason, but ManyChat is essentially developed by some people out of Russia that automates the process, kind of like an aweber for email. That's what ManyChat does for Facebook messenger, in my personal opinion. I know people who have invested in the company who work in the company. I've met the owners, I've met some of the developers. I believe manychat will be like the next Xerox for Facebook for automating messenger service. There's lots of other platforms out there that are bots or messenger bots, but I believe that manychat will be the Xerox. Now what happens is at the end of the day, which I know that people love, we talked about this earlier, is at the end of the day is they like to buy stuff. People like to be educated a little bit if they're really interested in large long blog content, which I write like at a fifth grade level anyway. But at the end of the day, people really like to be entertained. And this is exactly why we do what I do, right? We're going through this entire process and what we realize is at the end of the day, people like to be entertained. So what happens is as many times people want to be entertained, but they also want really quick, easy answers. So what happens is you go to a website, for example, and look at the home button, the shop button. It's all designed differently. People have in different locations to make it, eat, whatever. But what messenger has really started to be is just like text messaging. I don't know about you all, but I am talking a lot less on the phone and I am texting friends for sure now if you automate that process. Hey, I noticed that you listened to our Lost podcast. I noticed that you visited our site. Would you like to be updated each time our podcast comes out?

This was the conversation that Joe and I were trying to frickin remember.

You literally just reminded me of what we talked about.

Joe and I just looked at each other. We had like this breakthrough of like this was the conversation that we forgot.

That's awesome RSS feed.

That conversation was early in the night, before it even sunset.

That is true.

So you remember way better than you're like an elephant. You just like have a great.

So for example, and we can go through this whole structure of it but from a 20,000 foot view and I'll kind of dive back in the message from a 20,000 foot view that there's. There's three different parts of your funnel, right? You have a top of funnel, which I know people can't see this while I'm watching the video, so I'll just describe it. You have a top of funnel at the very top, which is people who have never, ever, ever met you for the very first time, never heard of me. These get. Very first time you're seeing this middle of funnel is, hey, I've seen their stuff before, maybe haven't bought, maybe I have, but I've seen their stuff before. And bottom of funnel is, hey, I'm really interested in buying, but I just need a little bit more convincing. Right? It's a very, very bottom of the funnel. They've gone to the sales page. The very bottom of the funnel. Well, what happens with stuff like messenger is if someone goes to your website, well, you can run an ad to them that says, hey, would you like to be notified the next time that we release our next podcast? You can be notified directly via Messenger.

The next time that we release our podcast, they click on a button that says send message. It pops up a little message for them. This can be typically on a mobile experience with mobile or desktop. Message pops up and then you're just going to ask permission. Hey, it looks like you're looking to receive notifications about each time we release a podcast. Would you like to proceed? Yes or no? You can stop at any time. Yes. Now you got permission. Great, great. Once you hit the next button, you'll be connected. What I would just do, because people like to be entertained and they're looking at a robot and they all know this by the way, right? We're not Skyzing anything, we're not taking people out. But it is, hey, let me fetch that magical link for me now. Or let me fetch that magical link for you once you click the magic button below. Each time we come out with a new podcast, you'll be notified via your phone. You can stop at any time just by replying. Stop. They hit the button. Now that notification is going to go out. You set up an RSS feed, that notification is going to go out, alert to someone's phone and they can stop at any time. But the deliverability.

Because we are talking about this is nearly 100% and someone has to ignore it. Like I am about ready to ignore all the different messages that I have on my phone. Right. This is going to get pushed a lot better than it does for your email. So at the end of the day, bots can help automate that entire process.

Love it.

And that I think just alone, I mean, for podcasting, that's something that we will be doing. And we do mini chat. Probably at the most minute level we have some. I think it's like two messages that are automated, so there's a lot to be done. But just with those messages alone and using some live chat, it's been the biggest aha. In our business. And it's just such a cool way to engage with folks on a deeper level that you would never be able to do before.

So you guys are doing now? I would be running videos and Messenger. One of my favorite things to do is inside of messenger is the content. You deliver a minute video, a two minute video. But especially for you guys, you can send, you know, a direct audio. So having a, you know, a three minute clip coming out. Hey, here's our recent clip of interview that we just did with Kurt. And your voices are constantly in their ears. They can listen to the preview and then go to the next episode. Like I'd be. I'd be playing with this thing all day long.

Yeah, man, we will. And that's.

Yeah.

I don't know. There's just so many things in mini chat. Yeah. If you haven't listeners, if you haven't messed around with it, there's probably integrations that. I mean, new things are every day, so you can get as creative as you want, but just using a simple structure, like Kurt said. I know on their website they teach you a ton of stuff too, so get in on it. It's good stuff. There's. Let's see. So we talked about minichat. I think that's really good. How about messenger ads?

Hold on. I want to stick on ManyChat for just a second. So with ManyChat, how. How do you recommend getting people onto our mini chat list? You know, like right now, you know, we've got. I think our mini chat list is hovering right around a thousand subscribers right now as of this recording. So we can obviously, I mean, we have some low hanging fruit. We can broadcast that list and say, do you want to subscribe to our podcast, get on our iss, do that whole thing with that existing list, but new people, how do I get new people into that list? What would you recommend?

So, great question. So to be clear, from what I've heard you say and what I remember from our conversations is you will take snippets of video snippets and you'll run those as ads kind of for a dollar A day. Is that right? And you run that top of funnel or mid funnel.

That one is, would be, I guess, mid funnel. That's where it's retargeting. So it's people who've engaged. It's a 30 day engagement audience, essentially, like the Hot 30, you know, we'll get into the Hot X, Hot 7, Hot 15, Hot 30.

You have ads that are running that are bringing cold people in. Right. Like you take one of the interviews and you target different audiences.

Yep, right.

Yep. Doing that.

So that's cool. And then what happens is then people come into the warm. Right, that I know that you're retargeting for 30 days. So what I would personally do is a couple of different things. One.

A video that's under a minute. So I do a video that's under a minute. And what you do for a video that's under a minute, you basically describe the experience. So it is, hey, if you've been checking hey, everybody, if you've been checking out any of our content, we have a unique, fun way inside of messenger where you can get notified each time one of our podcast notifications comes out. And by the way, you can stop this at any time. But it's really fun and easy. All you do is you're going to click on that button down below that hits send message and it's going to pop up and it's going to ask you permission to say, hey, do you want to, do you want this to be accepted? Yeah. Or do you want to receive notifications and updates? You're going to say yes. And by the way, it's just going to be for the podcast. I'm not going to send you any other junk. But again, you're just going to go ahead and click that send message. This little box is going to pop up and, and it's going to say, hey, would you like our podcast? You're going to go ahead and click yes, or you can click no, but I wouldn't do that. You go ahead and click yes. Once you click yes, it's just going to say, hey, are you sure you want the notification? You're going to click yes. Anytime a new podcast comes out, you're going to be automatically notified right here on your fancy phone. And inside of messenger, by the way, you can go ahead and stop at any time. So I would run a video like that. And what I would also do is I would take that video in a second campaign and in that second campaign, I would run a carousel ad that has that video that's one minute. Has to be one minute or less. But you run that in a carousel ad and the carousel ad itself, all the other pictures, they're all other past episodes. So you make sure the text isn't too big, but it's like episode one with blah, blah, blah, whoever that was. And there's a bigger picture of their face, but little text. And then don't allow Facebook to optimize for the kind of pictures because you can say optimize for carousel or just let it run. So your video would be first, then the other podcast would be right there. And anytime they click that send message, it would go into the sequence that I just messaged.

That makes sense.

Yeah, that's cool.

So you're showing all those other pictures just to kind of show like, hey, you have access to all this stuff. Yeah, fomo and that's proof.

And that's. And you're saying that's a middle of the funnel sort of concept. So you're, you're kind of retargeting people with that video. The first video.

Absolutely, absolutely. Because I would put that we'll talk about here in a minute. Is in my middle of funnel hot setup. You know what a lot of people do is we'll kind of start the topic because it's interesting is what a lot of people do is they're like, all right, you know, I've talked about this a lot. I'm going to turn on a bunch of ads, top of funnel, cold people. Now if I don't see cold people opt in or buy right away, I'm going to stop, start, stop, start, stop. But then what people will do, as many people listening, is they'll get email, opt ins and then they'll follow up to seven days. And if they don't buy, they stop following up. So they're starting and stopping ads and you don't follow up after seven days, a lot of people in the Facebook land leave this middle of funnel pretty much just pretty much a dead space. So yeah, we're going to be talking about a lot of content to fill that dead space. So while you're like a lot of entrepreneurs, which tell me if I'm right or wrong, you have a good podcast that comes up, you can get some people interested in that. A lot of people start to love and like you like I like you guys more than I get to know you. That works out great. But you might not have that perfect funnel that converts as soon as someone sees you. As soon as someone buys. It may take three or Four times. And seeing three or four times shouldn't have to cost you a ton of money if you do it right. It should be they just see more and more content, just like a follow up email process. And whenever someone's ready, they're ready to buy at a very low cost.

And see, that's what I love about this whole conversation and when we're in Austin is there's so many ways you can just leverage the platform of Facebook and all the different ad types and targeting. It's just like follow up sequences and email or wherever else you're at, but it's all harnessed inside of here. And with your method, all the different things you're doing, we could chat about that. But things like movie documentaries, directors, like you're saying here, that's a totally different ball game. We'll get into that later after we talk about some methods.

So I have one comment, if you don't mind. So there's what most people screw up on their ads. And I say this not as a marketing cliche, but people are like, oh yeah, we do that. What they'll do is they'll start, I'm just gonna make up some numbers. But it's pretty close to this. This is the math and facts. They'll start up five different audiences to target. And they're like, I got these five different lookalike audiences. Cool. You got five different lookalike audiences, but you gotta test five different ads because you gotta test five different. So maybe you test five different ad sets. So you have these five different audiences with these five different ad sets, which is 25 different types of ad combinations. Whatever, it's fine. Maybe you did a parasol ad or a video ad or whatever. Fine, whatever. And then what happens is people look at all this data and they're like, all right, did we get leads or did we get sales? Is all top of fun. And they'll say, oh my goodness, some of these we got sales, some of these we did not. And they start turning off a bunch of these ads. And what happens is, is you typically are going to run with your best 10% or 15% of your ads. You're going to have to trim 90 to 85% fat. Where people really screw up these days is they're like, oh yeah, let me start this top of funnel and figure all this stuff out. But I'm also going to set up retargeting and they retarget all this fat. So just to be direct, it's like a pig who rolls around in its Own shit and then rolls around your site and then you retarget all of the shit that you cut and you're like, I don't understand why my retargeting doesn't work. My funnel doesn't work. Your top of funnel should be less even or break even. Your middle of funnel will make you all of your money. But most people are starting and stopping and they're rolling around in pig shit. What I'm asking you all to do, which you're really close to doing, which is run good content. Top of funnel and middle of funnel, they're just going to see really great content they can buy wherever they want to. And you're only retargeting people who are interested. You're not targeting people who are a split test.

So let me ask you this then. How do you know which top of funnel ads are being effective to build your audiences in the middle of the funnel?

Man, that is a great question. That question backwards. You would have your answer.

I will tell you, that is one of the biggest pains in the butt for us running our own advertising is we have a lot of cold traffic ads, you know, and they're going to podcast episodes like this one. They're going to content we've got on our blog. And then what we're doing is we're retargeting those people middle of the funnel Hot seven ads, we'll get into that kind of stuff. But retargeting a lot of those people to offers and other stuff. But we never really know which of these top of the funnel ads are the most effective at building these middle of the funnel retargeting campaigns.

I'm going to pull up Perry Belcher.

All right, let's do it.

Love it.

I'll never forget he told me this directly. This is something I heard from the back of the room. This is one of these conversations in his office. But it's like, I'm going to tell you what to do. The only thing I'm going to ask is that you're going to implement it. And then when you implement this very, very simple process, you're going to record the results. And if it does what I think it's going to do, you will give me credit for it. And then he says, you're going to pay me a bunch of money, but you're just going to give him credit for it and then brag about it consistently that, oh, my goodness, this guy named Kirk Mahle helped us really well. Oh, my God, you should go find out more of his Stuff and then just give him money.

Love it.

Deal.

Okay, so the first thing, what I would do, because you are brilliant individuals, is your top of funnels going to be pretty easy to do. But this is why we record it and we talk fast. I'll give you the step by step what to do while you're interviewing your guest in a pre interview just like we did. I would ask them or post interview. Hey, look, I'm going to go ahead and run this on my top of funnel. So I'm really curious. Kurt, you have your own brand. Who's your perfect audience that you like to target? Top funnel? Or would you be willing to share any of your lookalike audiences with us or like your email audience? Because you can't steal the audience, but you can run your ad to that audience. And if you want to spend your money to advertise to my email list, you don't get access to my list. I'm just sharing the audience. You can't create a lookalike. Okay?

Why not?

It only helps you. Right? So what happens is this. I'd ask your guest, who do you target for your personal. They have a personal brand for your personal brand. Because I'm going to run this top of funnel as well too. Oh, and by the way, if you have any warm audiences that you would be open to share, I'd run that as well. Now what's going to happen is you can run that like a video like this. What I would personally do is I would take a four or five minute snippet. Some people like to do a minute. I mean, you guys have a great podcast, so maybe you take a minute. I like to do a little bit longer. That's just me. But you guys are entertaining, so let's just, I don't know, let's just. So by the way, the reason I say a minute is because that will run on, that will run on Instagram. Anything over a minute will only run on Facebook. But what I look at is this top of funnel. If I'm running a four minute video and it cost me 20 cents to have someone watch, 75%. It just cost me 20 cents to spend three minutes with me. That's great, right? If I can get them to listen to your podcast for three minutes, if I can get them to watch this for three minutes for 20 cents, you don't need a lead or a website click or any of that. That's it. So you can literally run that top of funnel three to five dollars a day. And what I look for Is I don't care about the clicks because I'm optimizing for website views, a website or a video view. A website click could be a dollar, but a video view could be three minutes instead of a website click, that's 15 seconds. You can literally run this for three to $5 a day. Like I would test, I test three different type of funnels where it's like, hey client, you want to share? Or hey interviewer, interviewee, you want to share to your audience is great. And then I would test a lookalike audience and then maybe a cold audience that I would suggest your interviewee suggesting four audiences. And you can start these at $3 a day set. Just three bucks. And what happens is if someone watches 25% or 50 or 75 or 95, they're going to roll into this next middle of funnel that we're going to talk about the Hot 7. So you're not retargeting people who just watch for 10 seconds, you're retargeting people who watch. This is why I like doing videos that are three or four minutes, not just a minute. So you can easily see. Literally spent $3 a day after four days. Wow. I spent 12 bucks people didn't really watch. 12 bucks people didn't watch. Wow. I noticed that people are watching for 50 cents. They're watching the entire video. I'm just gonna let these run for $3 a day and then it's gonna cascade down to these exact same videos, exact same ones are running for a dollar a day mid funnel. So once these people watch, and I like to talk about this technology, if you don't mind, but once people watch now, all of a sudden they see it over and over, but they're not seeing like a regular retargeting ad. Buy now, buy now, buy now. They're like, oh man, they're interviewing Russell Brunson. Did they just interviewed so and so. Did they just. Man, what are they doing? And these are all $0.05, $0.10, $0.15, $0.20, a lot cheaper. And by the way, we're doing one thing that we're doing right now, this 10,000 year old technique. People will literally pay. We'll get into movies in a minute. People will actually sit on their phone and watch a 90 minute video. They would watch this entire presentation for many of my clients, less than $2. So my question is, is it better to get an email for 2 bucks or have someone watch one of your 90 minute podcasts completely to the end for 2 bucks?

The latter.

Consumption. Right? Because we can build a relationship. We're doing right now.

It's so cool. And that should be a mind shift. It was for us, for me at least, and the listeners. If you didn't grasp that, just rewind a little bit and re listen because it's worth it.

So that's Top of Funnel, right? Just you lightly test out Top of Funnel. Then I like testing out look alike audiences of like 95% video views of my best video, for example. Right. People who consume the entire thing. Now, your middle of Funnel is essentially the way the technology works is this. I'm going to explain this in two quick parts and I'll be really quick, I promise. The middle of Funnel basically works like this. You look to stack 10, 15, 20 different pieces of content that targets what I like to call the Hot 7. Every conceivable way that you can retarget someone, and some people like to set it up for 30 days. You've set it up for 30 days, which is absolutely great. All we're doing is talking about, hey, anybody who watches these videos, these cold videos, or if they go to my website, or if they like my page, or if they go to my fan page, or if they engage with the page. There's every conceivable way to retarget. We have Instagram too. What happens is basically when someone lands on your website, they're caught like in the spider web. So what happens is you run 15 to 20 posts for a dollar a day to the saved audience of any conceivable way that someone has connected with you in the last 30 days. So what happens is all these different podcasts that you have that are four minutes or an eight minute segment, that could be the full thing. If you're just lazy and want to edit it, you run them for a dollar a day. What ends up happening is people watch the interview with you and I Top of Funnel. It doesn't matter if they click, it doesn't matter if they opt in. It just matters. They watch just 25%. So it's just a minute. That's how we qualify Top of the Funnel so it doesn't screw up our retargeting. They spill over the middle of Funnel. Now it's like they're reading through our Apple playlist. And every couple of days, and I'll tell you why this happens, they're gonna see another video, but they're not gonna see the same one twice. By the way we set this up, the Facebook algorithm will actually, this is three years old. Zuckerberg posted this on his personal page. The Facebook algorithm will actually look at the video. Like it would look at our video right now and know that there are three men in the video, two with beards, and they would know the subject matter that we're talking about. The visionary is back over here. They would know it's part of my audience as well, too, that I have a brand. Blah, blah. They figure all that out. So literally within it's in less than a second, Facebook can identify what's in the video in very, very, very creepy ways to suggest it. Who's gonna like this video? Not just like, but like consume it. So if you run these videos for a dollar a day to your warm audience, literally what you will see is a little bit of ad spend. But you'll be like, that was an eight minute episode that people are listening to and watching for 20 cents. And Facebook will literally run that video at the right time, at the right place to the right person, directly, strategically, to them. And it's not retargeting. Buy now. Buy now. More content. They get to know you. They get to know you. So when you have a product launch or your next product offer, you only retarget in this warm market because these are the people that love you and watching all your content. That's it. It's pretty simple.

So damn cool. So damn cool. All right, so we'll be using this video as a case study.

Please share your results. It's my favorite part, of course, and.

We'Ll give you credit, too. Hey, hey.

Yes.

All right.

Yeah. All right. So basically I just want to kind of recap and then you can sort of tell me where I'm wrong. So we're basically running like short videos to our top of funnel audience, which is kind of like cold targets, you know, lookalike audiences. You know, if you gave us access to one of your pixels or something like that, where that's our top of the funnel. People who aren't really familiar with us. We're going to run little short videos to those audience, the people who watch those.

Quick, quick question. This is really important. Top of funnel. Do you expect to make any money top of funnel?

No, no.

Top of funnel is just the break.

Even or maybe under.

Yeah, it's gravy, right? Because these are penny views. Many people are like, I'm not getting leads though. But remember, people are spending four minutes with you for pennies. So don't worry, the sales will come later. It takes multiple contact points. You guys are relationships. Like, you know that it takes multiple dates like we're at. So I just want to make that clarification.

And so then you're, you're creating another audience around people who, while you're creating their Hot 7 audience. But, but anybody who watched any of these videos that we just created and targeted with cold, they're going to filter down into your Hot 7 audience. Plus anybody who's viewed your website, anybody who's viewed your Instagram, now, anybody who's engaged on your fan page, any way that they can conceivably engage with you, we are then retargeting those people with a little bit longer form video.

Right?

So like you were saying seven, eight minutes.

So at this point it kind of doesn't matter. It's basically like this. You're starting to build a relationship with your wife when you first start dating and all that matters is communication. And it doesn't matter if it's a 20 minute phone call or sometimes it's just a text. So what you may have is maybe you didn't have the chance to run a video, but you just have the audio that maybe you can put to a little clip that's 15 seconds and you run it for a dollar a day and say, hey, we had a great episode with so and so here's a small little quick clip. So that's perfectly fine and that'll run and a lot more people see it because it's 15 seconds. But also if you have an eight minute clip or I have movies that are running for 60 minutes, you can also run that for a dollar a day and realize that Facebook will pull people through that funnel. So you just kind of think about it as in don't think about it. As in do I make as many short videos as possible? Middle funnel, because it's like you really dumb down the way you talk to your kids and your significant other, right? You're not like, hey, hey, like one or two word answers just doesn't help building relationships. It's great to have that longer video in the middle. So it could be images, it could be longer video, could be shorter video. This is your time to build your relationship for a dollar a day, which will answer the question of literally within 10 or 15 days you'll look through all these dollar a day posts and you'll see, wow, these clicks are a lot better. Or these clicks are cheaper than the rest. We're getting some leads from some of this. This is great. This is great to test top of funnel with one of the other lookalike audiences because you pre qualified the Content with all of your warmer audience. So either you're working with a guest like me with what their audience is, or your warm market is like, wow, that one interview that we did with John Smith, nobody knows who the guy is, but man, look at these stats. People are watching for a long time. They're clicking. Let's go ahead and test this top of funnel. And you're already a content factory. Now it's just the way that you stack it. That's it.

And then bottom of funnel is this. Are we going to start putting offers in front of people who are bottom of funnel? They've watched large percentages of our middle of funnel videos and this is when we finally get to the offers.

So here's a perfect example. Help remind me of your offer. What's the offer that you all have? People listen to the podcast. What can they, how can they do business with you?

So the easiest thing is opt in for the cheat sheet. But after that there's affiliate offers, there's our traffic course, and a variety of other things.

So for example, what happened is this. So let's just say the traffic course, right? So what's going to happen is you're going to have your top of funnel, right? You're always going to run that. And then you have your middle of funnel and hopefully top of funnel someday makes you money, which is great, right? You find the perfect funnel, but you have your middle of funnel. Now what happens, you're like, okay, I want to put up my traffic offer. So you're going to go ahead and you get your traffic offer and you're going to run that traffic offer to that Hot 7 audience, right? It's a brand new offer. Before you test it cold market, you are unequivocally going to test it in that warm market. Now what a lot of people do is they'll try testing their offers top of funnel. They'll also try testing their offers mid funnel, which is great. But what they completely just fuck up on is what I've completely not talked about is the very bottom of the funnel that you've already alluded to. So what I look at it is this. Someone's going to be listening to one of your podcasts. You're going to mention something about traffic and what they're going to do is they're going to click on a link or they're going to Google to find your traffic offer. Now they're going to go to that traffic offer. They're still in that Hot 7 audience, so they will still see all this other content that they have running, that's great. But now they're going to be in a very specific ad funnel. So I call an ad funnel. And that ad funnel, that could be a bot or specifically I'm going to talk about the traffic. One is when someone hits your page, I would put them in a 14 day funnel because you know that they hit that page. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to retarget based off of 1 day, 3 days, 7 days, 14 days, and I'm gonna go up to about that 14. So what's gonna happen is it's kind of like a funnel so people can't see this. I kind of have my hands in a funnel. So the very first day is like the bottom of the funnel. I'm gonna show them like a testimonial. So they hit your traffic site and it's like, hey, I took traffic with these guys. It's amazing. Check this out. Great. Well, if they still don't buy by day three, I'm now going to turn on two more ads that are two different testimonials, right? And then maybe a carousel ad. So what people are seeing for 14 days, they're still seeing this hot seven. They're still seeing your podcast content, but now they're seeing a lot more ads on the right hand side for your traffic course. They're seeing a lot more direct videos and testimonials about your traffic course. And after 14 days, I exclude those people. So if they've been to your site, I'll create like a, like an audience for after 15 days, 30 days, 45 days, and basically I'll exclude people who are between 16 days and 45 days because once they go through that 14 day funnel and they see all the testimonials, they see the product proof and they still don't buy. No reason I should be running my ads to them any bit longer than I exclude it. So you have a content funnel and an ad funnel. When they come to bottom of funnel, that's when the ad funnel really starts.

Makes perfect sense. So you're, you're, you're basically using their engagement however they're engaging. You know, if, if they just need a little bit more credibility, a little value, a little more hand holding, then cool. They could see all the other stuff, but if they're actually engaged, boom, throw them through that funnel for 14 days, bam.

Here's the thing that you said that's really important that a lot of people really miss. And this is going to Be a mind gasm for some people, some it is this big. Data from Facebook says clicks are a false indicator to buyers. And click through rate has no relevance to brand awareness, purchase intent, or actual purchases made. So we are conditioned to think as marketers. If I get a higher click through rate, I will get lower cost per click and that will get us more buyers. Not true. That will give you more window shoppers, not buyers. People actually buy through exactly the process that we just talked about. But many people can't track. Hey, I didn't realize they watched these four videos and then went to my website. I just ran an ad. They didn't buy right away and it didn't work. So.

Yeah, no, it's human interaction. We're going for engagement. It's trust. It's time in a lot of cases.

One last point, because then I want to answer your question from the board.

Go for it.

I have a PhD. My girlfriend hates when I say this, and it is a public high school diploma. I am not that smart of an individual. And what I realize is I have worked with or for or around some of the world's greatest copywriters, and I am not a world's greatest copywriter. I can barely even spell copywriter. But if I get you as a client to tell a story, we can go into any of the other questions you have on the board. Because it goes into this. The algorithm will take care of everything else. So I don't have to worry about the weirdest stuff. I don't have to worry when people are like, you should write copy. Like, And I'm like, no, no, just tell me a story for three to five minutes. In this type of structure, the algorithm will figure out their brain scientists. There are people so much smarter that the old advertising techniques, they're not dying. They're being proved by science that they're not necessarily working. So all we have to do is this. And Facebook will find the right people if we have it set up right. That's why I'm so passionate about this.

Love it. We just talked to Tom Breeze about YouTube and he said the same exact thing. He's so cool. Him and John Belcher both, they're just like, feed the pixel. Feed the pixel. It doesn't matter if it's.

John Belcher stayed in this very room just a couple of weeks ago. For those people who are watching in the video, I bribed him to say, I am out of town, you should stay at my place so we can do more business together. Because I like you. He is a great person.

You had to bribe him for that. I mean, that's like, no, John.

So here's the deal. And you guys know this because you.

Kind of went through this.

I'm gonna say, this is a size we don't like. I can give people a fun, entertaining experience. So what happens is this is I'm out of town and I'm like, john, here's what happens. You're going to pull into this luxury. It's called a luxury place. Whatever. You're going to pull in, you're going to walk to the front desk. And you guys know this. You're going to walk to the front desk and you're going to be, hey, I'm here for Resident of the Month. Kurt, Molly. They're going to hand you a special golden key. You're going to go up to a specific floor, a specific door. You're going to swipe that. The entire room will be open for you that overlooks the city. Your bed will be set up to the side. You'll have some snacks that are set on the table. My girlfriend left a little welcome note. So the whole point is to have an amazing experience so we can sit down and talk about how we can do some business together and make like, wasn't that fun? Again, that's cool.

And the part you left out is that the door guy or the guy at the desk was just gonna shake his head and he's like, fucking. Fucking Kurt. Resident of the month.

Two years standing.

By the way.

By the way, I just had five people show up for my event tomorrow. They're friends of mine I've known for a while. They walk in the front door literally an hour ago to drop off their bags so I can be on the interview. And I'm like, all you gotta do is just tell them I'm Resident of the month. And they're like, kurt, why does the guy shake his head when I say that every day this week, people are like, hey, looking for Resident of the Month.

Branding.

Right? That's a guy on his toes down there.

That is awesome. All right, so we talked about the Hot 7. And I know you also said that you also will create hot 40s, hot 7, hot 14, hot 30. In what scenarios would you use these different length of audiences?

So essentially what ends up happening is this. I created something originally. This is actually in our training course we've talked about for a while. You can only get it in my training course. Don't you love it when guests say that you only get it here? No, it's not why you're here.

So what I did is I created something called the step two warm audience. So you may hear me say that, and that is a 90 day audience. That is the biggest audience. Now I base 90 days off of. Because if you target someone who likes Tony Robbins, Facebook is going after relevance within the last 90 days. Typically, give or take. From what I understand, good email cleanup happens after 90 days. So what I thought was, well, let's retarget these video views, website landings and stuff like that for 90 days for content. What happens is if you start running some more than 50 or $100 a day top of funnel, that 90 day funnel of all these video views ends up being pretty big. Now the problem is if you're spending a dollar a day on 15 posts, it's kind of like you're fishing maybe in this kind of little hole right over here. If you can see a TV that's a little interesting, but it's kind of like you're fishing in a hole right over here. Right. And not this big ocean.

Right.

So what I really decided to do is I'm like, okay, okay, let me think about this for a second. If I can't retarget everyone, well, I have to make the audience smaller. So what happens is I encourage people to do a hot seven. Because once people are in your spider web and you're advertising on a regular basis, what happens is you never turn off the Hot 7. And every seven days or 10 days, someone's gonna see a new ad. And as long as they're watching or engaging, they're gonna be able to see that. Well, what may happen is you may say, well, I noticed that there's a high frequency. I noticed that people are seeing that these 10 videos, they're seeing them on average three or four times in a month. So I gotta, so they're seeing it too much. So now what I gotta do is I should just increase the size of that pool. So if I create a hot seven, that's for seven days and you may say, hey, I'm keep my ad spend low and I'm going to run ad spend. And then you may say, you know what, I'm going to turn this on to a hot 30. The reason is because I want to increase that pool because I'm getting ready to launch my new traffic product in 30 days and I want to really start warming up that bigger pool because as soon as I turn on ads, it's going to be to that Hot 30. I don't want anybody falling outside of that seven. So that's why I adjust the sizes. And I like going with that smaller size than I work up. 90 is the ultimate biggest. So I would do 30 days. That's where I target my new offer. If that works, I then go to the people for 90 days. Right. And then I'll target them. And then that helps me prove and test out before I go top of the funnel, cold market. And then that's where I start seeing that one to one relationship because the offer has been tested.

Got it.

Okay.

Yeah. And so I'd imagine what frequency goes down with the higher pool. Right. And so you get, are you adding more? Let's see here. I'm just trying to think here.

Are you going to love this?

Yeah, hit me, hit me. Maybe you'll help me out.

What most people do is when they set up their retargeting, they'll set it up for like five days, $5 a day. That says buy now.

Right.

And what will happen is you'll see this ad on the right hand side, the middle. Buy now. You see this kind of sitting all over. Well, what happens that's gets multiple frequencies and what ends up happening is it's something that's scientifically known as ad blindness. Ad blindness is basically you just see.

It over and over.

Now you just completely ignore it. Maybe people will see that on the last couple of days of ads inside of your sales funnel when they're like day number 14, if they haven't bought, maybe they should see your ad 20. Fine. But what happens is imagine if you have 20 videos running in your hot seven and they're all running for a dollar a day. Heck, $2 a day. You'll see that each video is probably seen 1.3 times or 1.2 times. So no one's seen that video twice. No one. But if you look all the way on down for all 20 videos, that it'll say the frequency is 4.8. So wait a minute. Facebook has figured out in the last 30 days how to make sure one of these pieces of content people have seen on average four times, but they haven't seen one piece of content multiple times.

That makes more sense now. Cool. Love it.

I'm doing a dance for people who can't see.

Yeah, no, people are going to see it. We're going to put this on Facebook, guaranteed. All right, so where are we going from here? Anything else on that topic? All the hot stuff.

Okay, I have a question. So Hot 7, is there, is there a sort of maximum amount of ads you can run to the Hot 7. I know we talked about this a little bit when we were hanging out in Austin, and I always had this sort of theory that, you know, if you have 100 ads instead of your hot seven, then you know, none of them are going to get as much reach as you want. So is there like a maximum amount of ads you can have in the hot seven? Is there like sort of an ideal number of videos that you're targeting with the Hot 7, with the Dollar Day ads?

So I am, I am really pushing this as much as I possibly, as much as I possibly can. And what I mean by that is I'm constantly fascinated by the power of a dollar. And it's not to be cheap, but it's like Facebook knows the exact person at the exact time to target the exact way. So what I've been doing is I've been finding some clients where they just have a bunch of content, bunch of content. So I'm like, okay, let's try 10 posts, see how that works. Well, I'm seeing on average that these are seeing, you know, being seen about 1.5 times on average. Well, let's just add some more posts. Well, now all of a sudden I have one client, for example, probably spend almost $2,000 this month in their hot seven because they have 27 different posts that's running. But they have a larger audience. But we're seeing website clicks because of their content. Go back to their site for 3 or 4 cents. So I'm like, well, your next big push promotion comes up in three weeks. Heck, I'm just going to run 40 different of these articles. And as long as that relevancy set, as long as two things, the frequency of all of them adds up to be less than. It could be four or five. Heck, it could be higher. But as long as not one post is seen multiple times, they're only seen just once. And the second most important thing is when I look at the ad to make sure they're still relevant. So as long as everyone's seeing them once and at the bottom, it could even say frequency of 30 if I click onto the ad level. As long as it says my relevant score is above six, I'm going to let it go and I'm going to add some more. That's it.

Now, this might be a dumb question. Dollar to two dollars, what's the big difference if you raised it to $2 a day? I know it seems like for a dollar a day, you're just basically bidding the Lowest you could possibly do. So Facebook can work its magic in this whole thing.

Right.

So is there any benefit to upping the budget? I know you mentioned two bucks.

Yeah, 100%. So what's really interesting is we have this client that we're working with right now. So.

Yeah, I can basically I talk about this publicly. This is one of my favorite type of clients. So this is a client who is a doctor who ended up having a thyroid condition and it's known as Hashimoto's. She went on this discovery to figure out what it was to find out that it was Hashimoto's. There's a lot of people who have chronic illness that don't realize they have Hashimoto's and it takes a lot of other doctors to kind of try to figure it out. So people consume their content at a huge rate. She did her self published book and became the first New York Times best selling authority of a self published book to the New York Times list. Yeah, like no, big, huge promotions. You guys know how the book promotions work because she's helping so many people. So now what happens is we start putting this stuff in the Hot 7. We're seeing some of this content being 3 or 4 cent clicks. Like I said, back to the website. So I'm like, oh, wait a minute, I'm gonna go ahead and keep on turning this up to $5 a day. Some of their stuff is $7 a day. If it's less than 5 cents a click back to the site. So now it's like, okay, okay, I see all this is working so well. If the frequency gets too high, what do I do? Well, I just go ahead and turn and stick it on top of funnel. And what am I going to turn on top of funnel? All these ads that I've gotten out thousands of clicks on for under 5 cents. Warm market, obviously these people love this type of content. Let's move that here. And then it just cascades all the way on over. That's what I was looking for.

Got it. So you're picking out, cherry picking those pieces of content, throw them on top, let them cascade down, kind of rinse and repeat.

So I didn't catch that. You're actually running dollar a day ads at the top of the funnel also. So you're running dollar a day ads at both top and middle of funnel then.

Well, see what's interesting is my first client that I ever worked with in this space, he's a real estate investor here and he says something that's brilliant. He Says, pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. Don't get greedy. Right? So I always think about that, and I'm like, you know, if someone's gonna buy my Facebook live course for $47, I should be willing to spend at least three times that amount to be able to get someone in my funnel with my continuity and stuff like that. But if I can find, if I can find. So do I have to spend $47 a day for the next three days to see if it works? Do I spend, what is it, 47, say, 50? Do I spend 150 bucks in a day to see if it works, or do I do what most slack jaws do? Do I spend $5 a day for three days and after spending 15 bucks, realizing I didn't make any sales, wonder what happened? Or what happens if I just set this up for $3 a day and watched it for a month and Facebook just optimized it? Right. What happens if I just stretched out that spend? So, as a greedy entrepreneur, I want to spend more money to get my answers as fast as possible. But we all know in business, life, health, relationships, that is not always the answer. So what happens if I just put it at $3 a day? It doesn't sound a lot, but now I can literally test 10 different AD sets over the course of 10 days, see which one performs best, and literally turn off ads that I only spent $15 on. Yeah, no, I love that $3 and stuff.

Yeah. I mean, I think. I think you're breaking a whole bunch of assumptions about Facebook that I previously had before this call.

Good.

Well, so I, you know, we have some dollar a day ads running. So, you know, we had, for example, we had Tucker Max on the show, and. And so Tucker is an audience on Facebook. I can target fans of Tucker Max on Facebook. So I'm running dollar a day ads to fans of Tucker Max, and I think we're getting about 9 cent clicks on that. And I've been afraid to jump that to $2 a day or $3 a day because I just kind of assumed that if I boosted that budget, the magic that's getting me 9 cents is the fact that it's a dollar a day ad.

What I always do is I always bump 25 to 30% every three days and just realize every time that you adjust it, you know, the ads are going to go a little weird. Just kind of a whole philosophy here. But I'll be really quick on it. I don't believe anything that happens in 24 hours because it throws off the algorithm. So I look for a three day trend. I tell clients all the time for our agency, I will not produce you daily reports because I will manage more emotion than I will manage math and fast. So when I have a crappy day or I up the spend and I look at it for three or four days, I'm always looking at seven days, 14 days, 21 days, 30 days. Because that's how Facebook attribution works. So if you bump it up. Yeah. Even if your cost triples, if you look at the last 30 days, it doesn't really matter. And if you keep on looking at it in that fashion, you'll make sure that you're not turning off your ads too early.

Makes a lot of sense.

Which is probably where most people fail. They just quit too soon, pull plug.

I know these failure points, gentlemen. I have seen these a couple of times before and I'm passionate about this business to make sure people know where they are.

Just a couple times, huh?

We have a lot of places we could still go. Unfortunately, we do have time constraints.

Oh, do we? I don't even know what time it is. Holy moly. This. Damn it. All right, we're have to have like multiple rounds.

Yeah, I think we'll have to do a round two at some point. But there are a couple things we should dive into real quick, like campaigns. So I've been through a lot of the training and social media ad genius in the past, and you recommend people build like campaigns.

I've never actually. I mean, every time I've run like campaigns, I've. It's very expensive. Like I've gotten 3, 4, 5 dollars likes and I didn't, I didn't see the value in that. And then when I've always targeted my fans of our page, those are usually my least performing audiences for whatever reason. So I'm kind of curious about your take on like campaigns and what you do to make them work.

So a couple things. Here is the first being is people have a misconception that people buy on social proof. Big data shows from Facebook, people don't buy on social proof. So this whole crap of, hey, I require 10,000 fans on my page to get started and I'm gonna market in India is the worst way you can start on your page. At the time of this recording, I have less than 2,000 people on my fan page. I am a Facebook advertiser. I've spent a ton of money on Facebook since I've been back on in October. Page likes don't really matter now. One of the things that I trained, that I had before is, you know, a lot of people, let's be completely honest with ourselves, really screw up the funnel process. They don't know how to collect leads, they turn on and off ads. They really don't know how to run that. What can happen is you can acquire a like a lot cheaper many times than you inquire a lead. And in a previous time I would tell people, look, target people that has an opening statement that aligns with the belief system of who you want to target. So for like learn to blog, was it do you love the blog like us question mark? And what would happen is we would get people who would click on the like for 30 or 40 cents. For 30 or 40 cents at that time we would retarget those people and they were some of our cheapest opt ins. But I had to get 30 cents first to get to that opt in. But the math typically worked. Typically.

Right.

But then you start to think about it and you're like, well, wait a minute, I'm targeting likes. Likes are targeted based off of someone who liked your page yesterday or two years ago. So depending on what you were selling two years ago or what happened to you or whatever, those people are still being marketed to. So I'll market to the likes. I'll set up a warm market to get likes to the page, maybe at two or three dollars a day. I don't do any cold market likes whatsoever. And what I've really found is, well, wait a minute, can I retarget likes who I don't know if they joined yesterday or six months ago, or can I retarget people who spent five minutes with me and it cost 10 cents? I'm gonna go with the 10 minute route. So I don't even really care about likes as much. Before it was an easier way to pre qualify people, but now with video views, it's an easier way to pre qualify people.

That makes sense. So the light campaign was essentially the precursor to what you're doing now. So beef. So kind of before this whole tofu, mofu, bofu sort of funnel.

Middle of.

Funnel, bottom of practice, he's been practicing that.

So before you kind of discovered this whole flow, the light campaign was essentially accomplishing the same thing, but this just accomplishes it at lower cost and more effective, better consumption.

Yeah. And I can control seven days, 30 days, 90 days, all that.

Yeah. Cool.

Well, I think, shoot, we're going to.

Take a picture of this board and use it for round two when we.

Continue at one Small little point. I'll put this as a cliffhanger Right now. Right now I'm working with people who design movies that help change the world. Not like a great action flick, but movies help change what we talked about. People with addiction, people who are looking, people are addicted to opioids, people who believe in certain different things that are really interesting. These are all really great documentaries. What happens is what we're finding is by people will literally watch a 60 minute movie right on their phone.

Yep. Yeah, I think the video topic was the last topic. I was going to say let's go down this rabbit hole and then save the rest of our questions when we can have a round two.

Yeah. The main thing is I want people to think about it. Is shorter better? Do you want to talk dumber to your future clients or would you rather do what we just did here is built a relationship for well over an hour and Facebook's math is going to allow you to do that. So you don't need the quickest greatest hook. You just need to establish a good relationship. And the way that you do that is this way. And Facebook will figure out the rest.

Yeah. And that was so the big aha I know we had together is I was talking about a documentary idea that my wife and I are working on. Old docu series launch. There's this massive thing, you know, you've seen all these other ones do it. You know there's big name ones out there. Truth about cancer, some other ones.

I know all those guys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you worked with those guys. But then you basically said you realized you could do that on Facebook and after looking at all the data, the emails you're sending, the engagement going down, each email that Facebook is 20 way cheaper and you're going to be able to segment way better.

Go for it.

Here's a mind candy for you. Why a director I sat with last night has done seven documentaries, sits around a table of a bunch of other Academy award winners. Out of seven of them, he's the only one who does have an academy Award. All the Academy award winners looked at him and said how do you make money and make movies? How's that possible? So we're doing right here is yeah, it's revolutionary. And we're going to revolutionize the way that people consume and watch movies online.

I love it, man. Yeah, it's just so much more simple.

Was there any. Joe, was there anything specific you wanted to go down on that vein? Because I know before we jumped on the call you said that Was like the one topic you were really excited.

To dive in on that was the aha. And I just wanted to present that as like, hey, there's a reframing here that you can use Facebook. And this is what straight from Kurt is. Instead of doing this long blown out sequence of emails and maybe, you know, gating out part of the videos, you know, different episodes, if you've ever watched a docu series, instead put the whole damn thing on Facebook and pay for traffic. I'm sure you'd use the Hot 7 type stuff for that as well. And then from there, based off of engagement, you can have Adam. You know, maybe there's offers, bonuses, other pieces of content you can give them and you're paying next to nothing compared to if you were to do this massive launch with it.

Yeah, pretty much. So many people waste so much money doing this.

Yeah, I think that I just wanted to put that out there in this episode and give you credit for this, like shift in. You know, I was just like, oh, okay, I've never heard of this. And the fact that you just validated that Academy award winners also have no damn clue what they're doing.

You know, movie houses are watching this very intently. This is a very, very moment in our history that is going to change in a massive way.

Yeah.

So there you go.

I'll just open this loop. So when we do have a second round, people are excited to to hear it. But you know, I wanted to get into things like driving traffic to webinars. Is there anything you do different around webinars? I want to get into Facebook lives. I wanted to get into how do you run ads? How do you run ads directly inside of Facebook Messenger. And what's the benefit of running messenger ads?

He's saying these are all the favorite things.

Well, now, now we know. So next time. This is why we need to do a round two because this is all the stuff we want to get into.

Cool. No, we'll have more ideas too, but thank you, man. Oh, where's. Because your mini chat. Your sequence was amazing. We both went through it. How can people check that out?

One of the best ways is actually just go to my fan page. Social medianius.

Media goes to the fan page and say, message us. Click on the message and say, hey, what do you want to do? You walk on through it. That's it.

Pretty quick. There's so much value in there anywhere else that you want people to go check you out.

Or they can always. The interesting thing is you always go watch our videos on Our fan page, because when you do that, essentially you're obviously going to be retargeted. Or the other place you can go and check out what we're doing to some of our other content is smag2.com. So smag to number two. That is social media ad genius.2.com. See what we do. And obviously, if you hit the web site, you're going to see some of our other content. So it's not like, hey, you have to opt in here. Hey, send me your email address, just literally, and I will stalk you.

Yeah, just visit the sequence and you'll see all of this stuff in action. If you're listening to the audio, you got his eye real close to the screen.

Yeah, we'll link the video for sure, because I think that's his still. That's his stock look.

I think we just found our shownotes image.

That's even better. I love it.

You can find it. There you go.

That'll be like the little still image that we use on our Facebook ad before you press play on the video.

Oh, it's happening.

All right, Matt, anything else? Are we good?

No, man. We covered so much ground, and we still have more ground to cover.

So let's just wrap it up, and then we'll do this again soon.

If Kurt will allow us.

Yes, sir.

We would love to do a round two.

Please tell me if people listen and take action, and then if it works, you can invite me back again. That'd be awesome. Now I got people banging on my door in a second.

All right, go for it, man. Appreciate you. Thank you.

You're right. See you.

Bye.

Thanks, guys. Thank you.

All right, thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode. And maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out@evergreen profits.com. so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.