Equity Crowdfunding: Building Community Driven Investing with Sarah Hardwick

You know, one of the secrets to crowdfunding, you know, it's not, there's, there's many platforms and you know, all sorts of technology and it's it that's important, but that's not what it's about. You know, what it's about is tapping into the values, making people feel like they're a part of something and building that community.

In today's world, online customers and everybody expect personalized support on every channel and in every way they want it like done right now. But the problem is most solutions out there don't allow that to happen. They're not delivering. So your customer service reps are struggling to stay productive and your customers honestly just aren't as happy as they probably once were. Now's the time to change that. This is exactly why There's a new AI powered service hub from HubSpot. The service hub actually allows you to bring this type of level of service and success together for the first time so you can deliver on the expectations that people are expecting. And actually it's boosting revenue along the way. The reps that are using Service Hub from HubSpot right now are reporting 13 times faster to help them resolve tickets and also it helps them close something like 42% more tickets per day. So that basically means that you're also retaining people at a much higher rate and they're saying more than 80%. Not only that, you're getting this full 360 view of your customers in this smart CRM that basically helps and supports you in the marketing, sales and service delivery and success of your team, but also making the experience much better for your customer, which boosts your revenue and your business growth. Go and visit HubSpot.comservice to learn how this all new solution can help you deliver for your customers. Hey, this episode we're diving into crowdfunding and we're talking all things crowdfunding for equity. Now that might be something new for you. It is a newer thing and you know, we talked about crowdfunding where it's more like the Kickstarter format, you know, where you give perks and all that. In a previous episode with Will Ford from Launch Boom. Highly recommend listening and watching to that one. This one is with Sarah Hardwick and she focuses on raising funds for equity. So if you are a company that you're coming to market and you have an incredible vision, you have a product in a larger company and you want to raise money now this is a way to get everybody involved is with the equity crowdfunding you can raise money from hundreds of dollars up to much higher and give small portions of company rather than going to VCs or big investors, institutional investors, and raising money that way. There's obviously perks to both sides and downfalls. And what Sarah lines out here is what really makes these campaigns a success are probably not what you think. And she dives into Aptera, which Aptera Motors, which is a company that is creating these solar cars. Solar powered cars. She helped raise over $100 million using exactly what she's about to line out. In this episode, you could do something very similar on a different level, and it's the nuts and bolts are the same. So you're going to love this one. Take some notes. So Sarah Hardwick's awesome and she helps companies do this. So if this is something that you're interested in doing for your company, definitely go seek her out. And if you're looking to get into investing, consider equity crowdfunding. There's a lot of options out there. She also mentioned a couple other companies that are really cool and futuristic that you might be interested in. So enjoy the episode. See you there. All right, Sarah, hey, it's great to have you here. We've been chatting a while, so thanks for your time today.

Yeah, yeah. So got to give a shout out to Victor, of course, your fiance. Right, yeah. So you. He's in a mastermind locally with me here in Speakeasy, and I think I'll be meeting you there maybe one of these days.

So big shout out there, but this is about you, not Victor. Sorry, Victor. So, Sarah, like you, you've been mentioned in the Speakeasy masterminds a lot. And I know we have a lot of mutual buddies. I was looking at LinkedIn and, and had Will Ford from Launch Boom on here recently and he was shouting you out as well. So I was like, okay, this is like all the stars are aligning and you do some interesting stuff. Crowdfunding with equity. I don't know what that means, but I want to understand. And you are like everyone said, you're the go to person. You're crushing it. You have some really fun case studies, especially this Aptera company. So enough of me yapping, how are you doing today? And maybe a quick little something, whatever's on your mind.

No, I'm super excited to be here. Yeah, we have a lot of great connections in common and so I've heard a lot about you and so, yeah, it's an honor to be here on the show today. Thank you. So I can start by telling you just a little bit more, if you want, about what equity crowdfunding is, if that would be helpful, because it's kind of confusing and a lot of people don't understand or even know that it's available. But it's really a really cool way for startups and private businesses to actually raise funding from the crowd, from everyday people, as opposed to traditional VCs or private equity firms. It puts the power in the hands of the community as to what products and services they want to come to market so they can really put themselves and their money behind things that they believe in. It's a really amazing new opportunity for companies to be able to keep a lot of control and, and going to put their community to work.

So it's a new opportunity. Is this. So is it similar, what with like the crowdfunding stuff? Right, like, well, explain, I guess, like the opportunity.

So it's been around since the Jobs act, you know, but I think there is, there's a lot of regulation and, you know, it hasn't really emerged with, you know, a huge amount of success until recently. And so I think, you know, there has been some hesitation or just, you know, people just don't even know that it's out there as an option. I personally kind of at Aptera, when is my first foray into learning about crowdfunding. And even we kind of stumbled upon it, you know, it was Covid time we wanted to launch a prototype. We, you know, those traditional sources of funding weren't out there. So we thought, well, hey, let's just, you know, put up a crowdfunding campaign. And we, I think our goal was, you know, $200,000 or something. Just we want to get our first prototype, you know, this cool solar vehicle. We know we've got this demand. People are excited about it. We don't know what's possible. So we put it out there and kind of set this really low goal. And what happened after that was kind of, I think, out of anyone's possible imagination. It was really a crazy journey since then.

So I want to talk about. Let's just go right there because it's a perfect case study that I think can explain the model and maybe we can use this as an example because Aptera Motors, what is it? I mean, if you guys look up Aptera, just like for y' all listening, watching, the car's crazy. Like it's, you know, it's basically looks like an F16, like cockpit on wheels somehow. But yeah, Sarah.

Powered by the sun.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what's the. What's the scoop there?

So, yeah, so Aptera is a solar electric vehicle, a whole new way of manufacturing vehicles. It's better for the environment, it's super efficient. So you can literally drive, you know, 40 miles a day completely, just from the sun, or you can plug in and get up to 1,000 miles of range. So super highly efficient. Zero to 60 in under four seconds. So it's that fast, powerful, but it's just a whole new way of transportation. And so Aptera had this vision. They had a community that was kind of excited about it, and they really wanted to bring this product to market. So there's a couple different types of crowdfunding, depending on. Of equity crowdfunding, depending on how much you want to raise. So Aptera started off with what's called a Regulation CF campaign, and that allows you to raise up to 5 million. So when we started, our goal was 200,000. And before we even knew what was happening, we exceeded the $5 million mark. It was just the community really kind of came up. And what we realized was this is bigger than us. This is actually a movement. This is something that we're leading. And this company can kind of really drive forward, but there is this passionate base out there, and maybe, just maybe with their help, we can actually bring this to fruition. So traditionally, bringing, as you can imagine, the manufacturing and brand new vehicle, it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And so we kind of thought, well, it's Covid and what are we going to do? So we saw this support from the crowd, and so what we did was just pivot immediately from that CF to once we had maximized that 5 million raise, and we moved into what's called a Regulation A plus, and that allows you to raise up to 75 million. And so for the past couple of years, three years or so, we have kept that perpetually open. We have now 16,000 investors, and we've raised over 100 million from the crowd. So it's people just like you and me, we find a company we believe in. We want this to happen.

We.

We want this vehicle. We want this. You know, we. We love this. We believe in this. We think it's the future. And so, you know, 16,000 plus people like that have helped Aptera to raise over a hundred million. So it's amazing.

Yeah, got it. And I saw the video and we'll. We'll link to it in the show notes, too. It's like 1.6 million views. I was just Looking at it this morning, I was like, whoa. And the video itself, I get it, because it's like, you got the visuals. It's like storytelling all throughout. It's. It's an awesome video. It's well produced. And then, of course, you have the car that's just like, Batmobile, basically.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So you. You set a goal. And I wrote some notes here. It's like the regulation CF campaign for 5 million up to 5 mil. And then you have the A plus up to. Or, well, I guess 75 million and beyond.

Per year.

Oh, per year. Gotcha.

Yeah, it's kind of a rolling. Rolling limit.

Got it. Let's see. Where do we go from here?

Because, like, well, maybe I could share just kind of some of the things. So here I was on. You know, my background is I ran an agency for, you know, 22 years, sold it before coming to Aptera. So I think one of the things that's important was a lot of the insights that I had that I gathered during that agency time. I was able to apply to Aptera specifically my focus with this agency. We were the world's first values marketing agency. So what we did was really tap into the heart of what motivates people on that emotional level and what people don't realize. Research shows that three quarters of our decisions are made from emotional, not rational, factors. So when you think about it, you're trying to explain all the kind of features and benefits, and people just really want to feel something. So that was the kind of the method and the practice that I used at this agency. And so that's immediately in working as the chief marketing officer of Aptera, I started to try to apply some of those insights. So I think one of the key things that I have learned and that I talk about a lot is one of the secrets to crowdfunding. There's many platforms and all sorts of technology, and that's important, but that's not what it's about. What it's about is tapping into the values, making people feel like they're a part of something and building that community. And that is really the secret. So we were able to do research and uncover some of these values and then use those to build this inspired, passionate base of people who then drove this company forward at a tremendous pace, much more quickly than would ever have been possible.

Okay. See, that's where my. And I'm sure most people are thinking like, okay, what are the tactics? What are the platforms? And all that. And it goes for similar conversation with the will about the crowdfunding that way. But as he was saying, it's like the powers in the community, the powers in the tribe that you're rallying around the product. But to your point here, I love the fact that yes, people, we're emotional creatures, right. And when you're doing any kind of crowdfunding or any kind of selling, even if it's like, you know, relationship type sell, it's emotions, right? Like, we gotta connect. So, yeah, values. And what I was gonna say is like, so this community, like, what are some thinking of Aptera, what you did there? Like, what would most people maybe approach it instead of like the values approach? Like, what's the wrong way to go about it that you might've seen some other companies do?

You know, just. I think you could. A lot of times companies will jump into it with a great product without having done the work on building the community and understanding what motivates them. And especially when it comes to crowdfunding, you're doing it for a reason. You need to probably raise some money. And so sometimes you can be so anxious to just dive in and let's just do it and let's get it going that you're not doing some of the hard work, which is just really listening. You don't even have to do a super expensive market research study. That's great. But like, look at reviews. You know, what, what is their. Why. Why are they buying your product? What is it? What need is it feeling? You know, do they want to be. Feel safe? Do they want to feel cool? Do they want to. You know, it goes back if you think of like the Maslow hierarchy, right? Like at the base is those, you know, basic fundamentals. But at that place, it's just, it's transactional and there's nowhere to compete except for price. So when you move up and you start attaching these values and, and making people feel something, that's where you can actually kind of. You can be much more competitive. And that's where I think the magic of the community building really starts to happen.

Yeah, I gotcha. So, yeah, listening is my takeaway here. It's like you could do reviews. You can probably listen in other communities, I would imagine, to like glean some ideas. Maybe if you don't have one yet.

Yeah.

Cause that's, that's where my brain goes. Yeah. Is like with Aptera, what do you guys like, did you have an existing community or did you build one? Like, how did that look, I'm curious.

Yeah, there was a little community that had Existed that had been kind of these fans. And so I think there's kind of two things I'll share with you. I think the first thing was just I went in just like probably most people with a lot of assumptions about what I thought the community was going to be all about and what I thought they would be passionate about. So keep it with values and I'll give you kind of an example. So I thought, because Aptera, one of the big value propositions and who I am and what I care about is a lot about the environment and saving the planet. And you know, my son Elliot, I want to make the world a better place for him. And so I went into it and I'm personally really excited about a lot of the benefits of Aptera that are around, you know, eco friendliness and sustainability. So, and carbon neutrality. So I kind of thought, well, that's probably why most people are going to really get excited about this. So we just did a super quick survey, like survey Monkey to this small little base that we had probably no more than a couple hundred people and started ask them questions, you know, what is it? What is it that you love about this vehicle? And actually what was interesting was there were some surprises. So what we uncovered was that yes, purpose and environment was important to them, but also what was really important was this value that came out of freedom. And so if you can imagine, you're driving an ev, you're constantly having to stop to plug in and you're tethered, you, you can't live your life in this way that you want to be. And so what they really loved was this idea of freedom and this idea of disruption, of being first to market. We know there's a better way this solar technology has existed for so long. Why can't we do this? There's these smart people, we're scientists, we're engineers, this is possible, but no one's done it. And so this idea of, you know, freedom and, you know, early adopters and kind of they're in it because they feel like they are a part of the future. They want the future to happen and they're making it a reality through their investment in the company. And so that was kind of an aha for us, where we're like, wait, there's purpose, but there's always also freedom. And freedom is really an important one, especially for these early adopters who are the first, you know, to reserve. That was really interesting to know.

That's huge. And that's because I'm thinking of Tesla, you know, let's just call them out there. It's like they're probably, they're a lot more feature oriented, you know, a lot more engineering, which is great. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. But when you talk about freedom, because, you know, I had a Tesla, I remember buying it in Austin. It was for some reason and drove it back and I had to go a specific route because of the super, the, the charging stations. You know, I was like, well, it's not freedom totally. You know, you don't have the solar, you know, helping you out there. But what you said is like first to market, you know, there's all these qualities of like that, that disruptor, like reminds me of Apple a little bit.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, the ones that are the misfits, you know, the ones that are the rebels and.

Right. And you know, that's what's interesting, I think. And you know, there's that saying, like, if you speak to everyone, you speak to no one. And so I think one thing, it's like kind of the Apple and I think taking a move from that playbook, they were not afraid to.

Be a little polarizing. It's like it was okay. And so same thing with Aptera. It's one of those things where people either loved it or they hated it. And that was okay because those aren't our people. And so you kind of have to be okay with going in and saying, we know who our most passionate community is and, you know, everyone else, they'll get there. But really focusing in and doubling down on who, you know, those, you know, people are and not being afraid to say, hey, we're not for everyone. And in fact, we're going to personalize and double down on who we, you know, know is our ideal target.

Yeah. And I'd imagine this turns into storytelling. Right? Like there's in all the messaging, including the video that, that you guys put out, was it like little under 10 minutes, I think?

I know.

You packed a punch. Yeah. I mean, it got a little long, but at the same time it's like, no, like the story gets you in there. And so. But without knowing the emotional triggers, the things that are people really are feeling without you asking them, you would never know how to tell a great story. Right? Yeah.

The words you use, the images. Is it about what I stand to gain or is it about everyone? You know, there's all sorts of things around the story and how you frame it and what customers you ask to be testimonials and, you know, all of Those things, it really comes down to kind of the values and, you know, who they are. And so, yeah, that becomes really critically important to understand that and easy to test. You know, throw out two ad sets, you know, achievement purpose. You know, I look really cool or I, you know, I'm doing something good. It becomes very easy to kind of start to test through ads and landing pages and those kind of tactics just to see and it will be clear, you know, what's resonating with people, and that will give you more and more clues and to be able to be more targeted and better in your decision making.

Well, and this is all awesome, Sarah, and this is cool. I love that you're breaking it down. Like, we're working through this case study, more or less through Aptera, but explaining equity crowdfunding. So you said 200 people. Everyone's got 200 people or can find 200 people to at least survey. And you can go to social media groups or whatever and gather them. So I'm just thinking of that initial seed group. You can get a lot of data. Like, anyone has the ability to do this. You don't need a bunch of money or resources to do it. You can be scrappy. How do you go from that 200 core group and then grow from there? Like, what does that look like?

Well, that's really interesting. So that's kind of like what we started with that core group, right? And at the time, you know, I was the only marketing person. We were just starting. I'm answering, like, the info emails, you know, every email that comes in, and I'm like, this is getting big. This is. This is.

Wow.

I don't think I can do this all by myself. But I don't have a budget. It was A budget we launched with was ridiculous. I don't know, less than 10 or 15,000 bucks or something. We didn't have anything.

We didn't have the budget to hire a big team or an agency at that point. But I saw this passion existed.

One day, sent out an email just to the list I had and said, hey, you guys are so awesome. You all want to help. Is there anyone who'd want to be an ambassador and just come on board? And it was so incredible, like, dozens and dozens. And then soon, hundreds of people, everyone raised their hand and they said, yeah, we want to do it. We want to be a part of it. And so over the course of three years, the base of people who are believers, our reservation holders grew to 45,000 plus. You know, I said 16,000 investors but as part of that, we had 800ambassadors, and they were all over the world, and they did it for free. And they did things like one of them said, you guys gotta be on Reddit. And I said, oh, man, who's gonna moderate Reddit? You know? And they said, oh, well, I'm on it all the time, so I'll get there and I'll do it. And so they would moderate social media. There would be times when with just me, I can't respond back to hundreds of comments that are out there. But so by the time I would get there to say, oh, well, they have that fact wrong, guess what? An ambassador would have already been there and corrected that. And so what we did was empower them with resources, with assets, with photos, with fact sheets to answer all the questions and to be out there representing the company. We actually gave them business cards, which everyone is like, are you serious? You're going to give these guys? Yes. Because everywhere they went, they represented the company and, you know, they lobbied to their congressmen. I remember we had a law that was like a helmet law or something repealed in one of the states because the ambassadors called them and emailed them and, you know, so it's. It is amazing what can happen at the Power when you put this dedicated group, you know, you can move mountains. And it was really proof that with this, this group, it was, it was very inspiring to see.

Well, Ambassador, just that whole. I'm just thinking of all the elements of the model and, you know, we're not even talking specifically. Obviously the equity crowdfunding is kind of like, I guess, the foundation of it all. But sure, everything that we're talking about right now is growing any kind of movement, like, this is the way to do it. And ambassadors, I freaking love it. Because you're like, I'm not a Reddit expert. I'm not Instagram, I'm not YouTube, whatever it might be. It's like, oh, you're okay. And I'm assuming they're feeling pumped up for it because you are empowering them. You're tapping into that belief or that value of first mover disruptors? Still, to them, they're like, I'm the ultra one, so I'm just gonna do it, you know? And were there any other incentives that needed to drive them or was that enough?

One thing that we did give them. So like you said, they were so passionate. What they wanted was to be in the know. And so what we would do is before we made big announcements, before we shared information, when there were Things that were coming, that were happening that we were excited about. We would have these webinars for all of these ambassadors, and our two founders would get on there and we'd show them, you know, sneak peeks of what's coming up. We'd show them here, look, here we are in Italy at our factory. And look at this. You know, this is the first, you know, press. It's the mold. And, you know, they got to see the things before they were released out to the general public, and that made them feel very special, and that made them feel like they were a part of it, and it rewarded them for, you know, the work that they were doing and kind of the connections they made for us. And then they got a little bit of FaceTime. So, you know, it's hard and it's kind of scary, I think, for some CEOs or sometimes to be put yourself on the spot and answer all these questions, especially in an environment where maybe it's alive or, you know, but so that's exactly what they did with the ambassadors. And so we let those ambassadors stay on for, you know, an hour and just ask all these little technical questions and things that they had that they wouldn't get anywhere else. And so as far as an incentive, it's like access. They feel special. They get to be a part of it. They feel like they're on this, you know, board of advisors leading the company. And for the company, it was very meaningful. You know, we organized them in ways that were helpful to the business. They needed something and wanted something to do, but we didn't just have them running around. We focused them on what would be most valuable for the company.

Yeah, it's almost like a street team, but in all different ways. I'm thinking of bands. A lot of them have these things. It's exactly the same thing here. Ambassadors for a company. And again, everyone can do this. It's just putting the organization and giving them access. I think what you just said there is probably one of the key things. Most startups, like, I'm an advisor to another startup, and they do AI cloning and stuff like that, and it's cool to hear the inside scoop of what's to come. And it's like, yeah, that fires me up. It's enough to, like, okay, I want to keep spreading the word or at least giving them feedback and all this stuff. You can't pay people for that. Like, they're not as motivated. Right. Totally. Yeah. I'm going to pause the episode really fast and shout out another show. That's on the podcast network over at HubSpot. It's the audio destination for business professionals. This is Mistakes that Made Me. It's hosted by Eman Esmile. She is interviewing successful business owners and talking about, hey, what are those mistakes? What are the failures? What are the things that you hate to talk about that we can all learn from? I mean, like, let's be honest, do you like to talk about your mistakes? Probably not. Well, that's what she's talking about. And it's going to be be there. It is there waiting for you to listen so you can learn from those lessons and learn how to get past them or navigate around those big boulders on your own journey to success. So go listen to Mistakes that Made me. Wherever you get your podcasts, are you looking to earn more online? It's time to meet Kartra. It's your ultimate all in one business platform that makes it even easier to boost your income online. So with Kartra, creators, coaches and experts can turn their knowledge and services into profits. You can create pages, funnels and attract customers, build membership sites and share your knowledge, automate your business so you can free up your time and do a whole bunch of other fun stuff. So Kartra has every tool you need to grow your business in one place. And the best part is that it's super affordable and easy to use. So now's the time to streamline and scale your business biz. Head over to hustleandflowchart.com Kartra and snag a free 30 day trial. Again, that's hustleandflowchart.com K A R T R A. So when it comes to, I'm thinking of like the comparing equity crowdfunding to traditional. What's what, what are some big differences and like, is something like, does Aptera still pursue that bigger money? At the same time, I'm kind of curious how it all plays.

Yeah, I mean, they kind of, you need to. I think there's a place for both, especially depending on the type of company. And Aptera actually is going to be closing down their fundraising round for the first time in several years. And because they're bringing on a larger capital group to help really get them to the finish line. It's been an amazing way for Aptera to continue to make progress, to continue to move things forward. But there is, I think there is kind of a place for both, I think. So as far as it relates to kind of the differences of traditional, you know, it really is more, you know, you don't have to, you know, you keep a little bit more control. And I think that's one thing that a lot of companies who are startups or, you know, private businesses are a little bit worried about is, man, if I go the VC route, I'm, what if they want to, you know, change directions? Or what about, you know, what if I, you know, what if they want to, they want me out? I think those are fears that a lot of us as entrepreneurs have. I think the way that this is different is certainly that is a part of that, but really it allows you to get the funding that you need without necessarily giving away a lot of control. I think that that is part of it. I think what is amazing about that to me is just this idea of whereas before it was up to VCs and private equity firms to decide who gets the funding. I don't know, I like the power in the people. So what if we decide and what if we are the ones who make it possible for dreams to come true and for things to come that maybe a VC might have said, eh, too risky, but what if it could change the world? And so I think it really opens up this possibility of non traditional financing as a way to get started. And so Aptera made an incredible amount of progress and that will allow them to prove themselves to these bigger VCs and private equity firms. And so it gives you credibility and so they do work hand in hand. I think ultimately Aptera will need both to be able to bring their vehicle to market. But I think the crowdfunding really proved to everyone that there is interest, there's excitement and people are willing to put 1,000, 2,000, 5,000, hundreds of thousands towards making this product a reality.

This is, yeah, it makes perfect sense. Thanks for kind of lining out the differences. And also like how they kind of go in a sequence. You were just hinting at it like kind of the different ways that people can contribute. And then with this whole equity crowdfunding phase as the we the people, you know, rather than these massive VCs which are still people, but yeah, different agendas, different than the individuals that are passionate, value driven. How does it look like when a campaign's launched? Let's say you have the community, now it's go time. What's it look like?

Well, you launch your campaign, sometimes you might be on a platform, depending on how much you raise, like a WE funder or a start engine or a deal maker, or you might be working with someone like an issuance or a Dalmore and there's all these backend kind of marketplaces and technology platforms. So you would pick one of those or you would launch it on your own website, depending on the logistics and kind of your budget and things like that. And then people would come in and, you know, you would. And it's why kind of we're talking a lot about marketing and community building because that's the driver of crowdfunding. And so crowdfunding is the call to action. You know, it's what we're asking for them to do. And really, we're just. It's the process of converting this community to becoming, you know, stakeholders and actual shareholders. So the campaign goes live, you send out email blasts, you post on social, you do webinars with your CEOs, and everything is all about, hey, guys, you can be a part of building this company, you can be a part of this community, this movement. You're a part of the future, you have the power. And so you're launching ads and traditional marketing tactics. But it's all really focused on driving fundraising. And those campaigns could last anywhere from a couple of months if you hit your goal to someone like Aptera, where companies may keep it open and raise hundreds of millions of dollars. And it can be a really valuable way to make progress. Buy ip, build out the software, hire team, expand. It can help. A lot of these critical things happen. Even if it doesn't get you all the way to the finish line, it gets you a lot closer. So it's literally someone going on, making their pledge, and then they get a certain amount of shares and maybe some perks. So along with that. And so that's, you know, really the process. And it is as simple as that. And you don't necessarily have to be in the past, you know, accredited, you'd have heard of accredited investors. You have to have a certain net worth in equity crowdfunding. In this way, anyone can be a part of it. In addition to equity or to accredited investors, anyone who has a desire and a passion to be a part of.

It can invest, can technically get a share, whatever percentage that looks like. Yeah, depending on what they put down. Wow. So, yeah, depending on the packages, whatever you set up, there's. There's perks, of course, kind of like traditional crowdfunding. But then you have the equity component and that's right, simple as that.

And so one day, hopefully there's an exit. You go ipo, you get acquired, and at that point, everyone's who has invested in the early stage, it probably a pretty good valuation. You Know, hopefully you've grown and grown and that, that in those shares have the value and the worth has continued to grow. They've been with you on this journey. They made it possible from the beginning. And so hopefully you can reward those early investors and ambassadors and people who believed in your company with a great outcome. And so that's, you know, the kind of the, the icing on the cake, right? You come, you help a company bring, you know, bring their products to market, but then you also can hopefully benefit from it financially as well as the.

Other cool perks you get for sure. And I'm just thinking of like, is there an advantage that you would want to do the non equity route versus equity? Like is it product based, company based?

You know, good question. I think what, what Will's team and Will is great at is a lot of times you may have like a prototype or an idea, but you don't have the resources to actually source it and manufacture it and bring it to market. I think the rewards base can be a really great way to concept the product idea and to really help to make it possible to scale it. Because you have to be able to scale it. And I think Will's team is amazing with a proven system to be able to help in this manufacturing part as well as launching of the Kickstarter campaigns. So that's kind of, that would be the difference there. And I think before you were to go into something like equity crowdfunding, you'll have to have audited financials, you'll have to have, there's certain requirements and there's things, regulations that you'll have to adhere to. In some cases you're considered a semi public company and so you have to do filings and so there's a lot of other additional kind of pieces and components that you'll have to, that are required. And so you want to make sure you have a product, you have a market product, market fit, you have a community and you have the ability to scale and manufacture. And then I think you're ready for the equity crowdfunding piece because really they're investing in the company overall, not just this one product.

That makes sense. Okay, cool. Yeah, that was another little clarification piece because I'm sure it would come in since if they heard Will and then they hear you. Hold on. You actually play together perfectly. It's. Yeah, okay, I like it. And like you said, you know, you're launch, boom, certified. So I mean like you guys are, there's a reason why you guys are chatting and Exchanging notes. I mean, it helps everybody in the process, which is really cool. So what happens after the crowdfunding? I mean, sometimes it ends earlier, like you said, maybe six months or so. Or it could go for multiple years, like Aptera. Like, what's it look like in the fulfillment side? Even though it's kind of like, maybe ambiguous because it's literally growing a company to a certain point. But what's it look like to keep them all rallied up?

Well, and then you've got 16,000 investors, and then you have someone who is on your team who helps with investor relations. And in part, it's like community success or community relations. In a way. They're a different type of community member. And so very similarly, you want to bring them along on the journey. They want to know what's happening. And so I think one thing that I am a big believer in is really being transparent with communications. And I think sometimes in situations like this, if you invest, do you ever hear from them again? How are they doing? What's happening, what's going on with the company? And there's a lot of, I think, kind of just dissatisfaction around the lack of transparency. And so I really believe in, you know, giving updates and giving regular updates. And even if it's just a little bit, hey, guys, thanks again for your support over the last two months. Guess what? We made XYZ happen. And even if it's a little step and it's a little progress, we hired this cool person. Hey, come say hi. You know, it's these little bits of progress. And I think sometimes companies may be afraid if they're not as far along or if they, you know, they don't have anything to report. Being open and being fully in communication with these investors is really important and critical. And the same thing with customers. And honestly, many times your customers are also your investors. And so that's this whole idea is they are not always separate. A lot of times you'll have someone who believes so much in the company. They first became a customer and they made a reservation for an Aptera vehicle. And then they came along and they followed along our emails and they saw us on social and they said, you know what these guys are? They're doing something important for the world. And so I'm going to go ahead and invest. And then sometimes they'll come back, you know, after they've already invested once, maybe they invested 500 bucks. And then they start to see, hey, wow, this is really great. Things are happening. I'm going to come back and invest 5,000 this time. And so that's what really started to happen with Aptera. Where we really started to get kind of critical momentum was people who had already come in at a small level re upped and re upped and, you know, the more that you communicate and are open with them, the more that you continue to bring them along on the journey and the more they help your company grow.

I mean, I would imagine. And that makes perfect sense. I wasn't even considering that, but yeah, I guess a reason why you'd want to keep it open is that you have a solid community around. Everything you're doing. You've already got them to convert I. E. Invest at one point. You might as well keep talking with them. Just like a customer journey, there's upsells, there's all these opportunities. Well, they can re up for more. Especially when they see like, holy crap, this company's doing some stuff like, my money's going to good use. I could probably earn something from this. Or like, hey, maybe there is an IPO in the future. So I'm sure it's not always the case, you know, with investing and yeah, I love it. Yeah. Open communication, being transparent. I mean, like the company I was mentioning earlier, like, they do the same kind of thing. It's just like investor emails. But I mean, you're talking 16,000 you said. Right. Like, so.

Yeah. With Aptera. Yeah.

And maybe you got a lot to communicate.

Start small.

Yeah.

But you know, eventually I think we were able to convert Some, somewhere around 25% of our customer base to become investors. And, you know, that's great. And especially when it's a situation where they've just, you know, made a reservation and you want to show, hey, these are really dedicated people. These are, you know, these are special. Well, they not only did they make a reservation, but they invested a couple thousand as well. So these guys are. These guys are in. They're going to definitely purchase the vehicle when it's out. Those kind of things can help.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Sarah, is there like a maybe an obvious or a dumb question I should be asking that I'm completely blanking on right now?

I mean, I think you're asking great questions. It's, you know, it has equity, crowdfunding has like a lot of mystique and yes, there's a lot of regulations and there is a lot of things to learn and I learned a lot of lessons the hard way just being in the trenches and. But I think at the end of the day it is obvious and it's all about community and heart and building a community that has values and tapping into those and drawing those out. And that is really truly the secret to equity crowdfunding beyond the platforms and things like that. So it's really almost like going back to the basics and sometimes people find it hard to believe. It's like, well, how can it be that simple? But truly it is all about just that community and motivating and creating. Creating a passionate fan base to drive you forward.

And I think it leads to what you're. And I want to ask you what you think you're the best at, what your superpower is, but I mean, it sounds like it's the values driven thing that you're applying in just different mechanisms. Right, like, but what would your answer be to.

Yeah, I mean, my. I think it's getting understanding the why behind why people invest and why people want to become a part of a community. And so, you know, is it for, you know, security and stability? Is it tradition? Is it freedom? Is it pleasure? Is it excitement? And so my superpower is taking a look at the community and also taking a look at a company and your purpose and your why and helping to identify how to put those two together and to bring something that's greater than anyone ever imagined using kind of those insights.

It's exciting because. Yeah, I could hear, I've seen it obviously in what you do. I hear it in your voice. I'm curious of. Because you work with other companies I know, not just Aptera to do this kind of process. Can you maybe talk a little bit about what you do, some of the ways that you help them and I don't know, maybe some other interesting case studies or something there.

Yeah. Well, I have two clients that I'm currently working on that both have campaigns either about to run or, or running. One of them is called Geoship. Geoship is amazing. They're affordable natural bioceramic domes. So when you think of a lot of people now, it's like we're renting here in our house and sure, I would love to buy, but we're in Del Mar. It's really expensive. And so the thought for a lot of people about an affordable home that is actually an amazing home is kind of out of reach. And so that's really their moonshot. It's to make the best home on Earth, the most affordable home on Earth. And they use these really cool bio ceramic materials. So it mimics bone. If you imagine it's fireproof, it's hurricane proof, it's mold Resistant because it's not made of wood. It takes a lot less materials to make. And their whole kind of philosophy is this idea of regenerative communities and living in the round and kind of creating a world where you're making more connected to nature through where you're living. And it is a movement. And so that's kind of the common thread, I think, between the clients that I am taking on and who I'm working with now. It's companies who are changing the world and who have a movement behind them. And so this is really a movement renaissance in home building. And so they're really leading the way in this renaissance to say, hey, this is a $2 trillion market and we can make something amazing here and we can do it differently and we can do it more meaningfully in a way that's more in harmony with nature and with each other. And so that's incredible.

By the way, I just looked it up. They're amazing.

Check them out. They have these just absolutely spectacular domes, geodesic domes. And so they're going to be launching a campaign, a regulation CF campaign, very soon. So I'll keep you posted on that and keep a lookout for that.

I just signed up, so. Yep, I. Yeah.

Oh, good. Okay, great. And then another one. It's a little bit, you know, kind of similar to Aptera, but almost to another level. It's called Doroni Aerospace. And Doroni Aerospace makes flying cars. And so for Dr. It's a whole new revolution in personal mobility. And what's interesting, I think, you know, is it's this idea of a new changing your perspective. And so typically you'll think about, okay, you gotta get from here to work or point A to point B. But when you think about Jeroni and the future and what it's going to be like, which is so crazy to think, you won't be going here to there, you'll be going up. And so it's like changing your perspective and it's really changing the way that you experience the world. It's changing the way you live. And there are a lot of other flying vehicles out there. What makes Duroni really unique. They have a lot of patented technology, they have a lot of ip, and then they're also much more sustainable. And so when you think about, okay, well, one flying car is great, but what about when we have thousands of them and how is that going to work? And so they're really forward thinking around this idea of creating sustainability and creating kind of, we want to be in Harmony with earth and the nature. And we want to make this also something that is beautifully designed, but also something that is highly efficient. So they're really kind of innovators in their own space as well. And they have a campaign that's currently live on StartEngine.

I see that. Yeah. On their website. You spell it. What? D O R O I N I. Geez, I butchered that. Let's try that again. You spell that. D O R O N I IO is the website. And yeah, it looks like you can do what? Minimum investment is just under 600 bucks, and it gives you the share price and you can just start investing right there on the site. That's. This is cool.

Yeah.

Sarah, you're opening my mind to. Well, the future. I love the fact that you have all this, like, futuristic kind of stuff, which it makes sense. And again, it's. Maybe this is part of your strategy too. It's like you have an audience that you've obviously cultivated that is, you know, first mover, disruptor type. So you have a theme, but just say.

It makes sense. That's probably something people can think.

Yeah, yeah. I think it goes back to what we were talking about before I think you hit record, which was all this idea around doing work that you love and, you know, looking. Yes, the clients that I have are innovators and disruptors, but they're also world changers. And so I think for me, I had, you know, put a lot of time and thought, okay, I'm, you know, as I'm starting out on my own, what kinds of companies do I want to work with? And I could go anywhere and do anything and I want to raise money. And I thought, really, what was so impactful for me in the work that I was doing with Aptera and in my personal life in Talbot. And for me, it's really about making a mark and making a positive impact and doing work that I love and that I feel is meaningful. And so in leaving Aptera and starting my consulting practice, I'm really focusing on companies that I am passionate about and that I think want to have the potential to change the world. And so for me, I think that's how I am fine. Working hard and doing a startup and working long hours, because at the end of the day, I'm so excited to be able to say, look, I made this a better place and I motivated these communities and I started these movements. And so I think it's really important for all of us entrepreneurs out there. We can do a lot of stuff, but to really stay focused and to really follow your heart and, and follow your own values and what's important to you. And I think the distraction sometimes and the, you know, money and chasing the hustle and everything and really, you know, trying to stay true to your heart and your focus. For me, that makes it a joy. And it's, you know, it's really what motivates me every day to get up and get, you know, get new clients and raise money.

Sarah, that's like. I think it's like the perfect way to end this because it encapsulates what you do and what's possible. Like, you can do startups, you can do this futurism, big stuff, big things. And you don't have to feel like you're burning out. You can feel pumped with the people that you're working with all the way from your client to the community ambassadors, you know, first movers who are, who are actually investing and all that stuff. So, I mean, this is awesome. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And you're welcome.

This is fun.

Yeah, I mean, you made it fun, too.

So I love talking about this stuff and, and there's so many companies out there who are worthy and deserving of this and, you know, maybe think, oh, I'm never going to get there. I'm never going to make it. And so hopefully they see crowdfunding as a path to do something that they didn't think was possible or, you know, they, you know, are discouraged about. So I want to give them all that, you know, those props and confidence to go do something you think may be impossible.

Sweet. I mean, hey, I'm sure. I hope there's people here that are, yeah. That are getting the light bulb moments in. And maybe it's starting small with the crowdfunding. Maybe it's the equity part. But either way, like, you got the resources. It's possible. Go find Sarah. Go find her@Sarah Hardwick.com. is there anywhere else that we should point people to?

LinkedIn would be great. Connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm doing lots of webinars and events and masterminding and this community. For me, coming on board, not knowing much about crowdfunding before then, I had a lot to learn. And so I'm really committed to creating a space and a community for learning and for growth and for, hey, let's ask the dumb questions and let's like, you know, work on the hard things together. Because it's, you know, there's a lot we all have to learn. And so I'M passionate about creating a space that we can all do that. So LinkedIn's a good way to follow what I've got going on and join the part, you know, be a part of the crowd community.

Sweet. Yeah, you post a lot of fun stuff there, so. I got it. I'm going to keep following along myself, especially with these two companies you just mentioned. I'm like the dome thing, like, I'm, I want to build a little something on the, the acre I have here. I'm like, maybe it's the geo ship. Yeah, well, that's cool.

Me too. We can be neighbors.

I'm down. Yeah, that sounds fun. Well, Sarah, appreciate you so much and hope we get to chat at one of these masterminds coming up pretty soon.

Yes, for sure. I can't wait.

Cool.

Looking forward to it.

Sa.