From Polynesian Wisdom to Technological Frontiers with George Siosi Samuels

Whenever there's something truly disruptive, take a look at what is happening around them. If you're getting a lot of pushback from the masses, from the popular groups, from people in power, it's usually a sign for me to pay attention, right?

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hustle mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger, so that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy.

Oh, this is gonna. This is going to expand your mind. It might freak you out at times, but I got my new friend George Cioc on the podcast. I gotta shout out my boy Anthony for making the connection here. George is a wealth of knowledge. He is. It's like a triad of things that he's gonna bring to this conversation. It's. He's very deep into blockchain and bitcoin technology. He's actually the head of community for Bitcoin Association. But don't fret, it's not just all about blockchain, y'.

All.

So if you're deterred by that, don't worry. We got a lot of AI talk in here too. So that's the other corner of this triad here. And he's gonna talk about what's happening and how blockchain actually connects with AI, but also independently what's happening and a perspective change that you definitely. I hate saying the word should, but you should get your head wrapped around this, at least at a conceptual level, so you can change the way you approach. I guess how you're doing a lot of things with technology, with content in your business and planning for the future, it could probably freak you out. But at the same time, George is here to give us a lens into the future, years and years out so you can be prepared. Then the other part of that triad I'm talking about is the past. Ancestral wisdom, wisdom from generations past. And there's a lot rooted from all around the globe. He tells some fascinating stories. He actually starts off this way and how everything's. It's. It's a. It's a circle, it's a cycle. It. It comes back around in different forms. And that's exactly. We are right in the middle of something interesting right now with technology and people, humanity, how we. How we just operate in general. So gear up and if you want to know more about George, make sure to go to George CoC.com and got all the stuff in the show notes as well. And, you know, I'm just going to urge you again, go to Hustle and Flowchart as well, because I got some cool new stuff there. So make sure you're signed up to the. To the email list there so you can get access to some of the cool AI stuff. So if you. If some of this stuff is over your head or if you want to relate what you learned here to some other guests that we're chatting with, I have a nice little chat bot calling it the Pod Bot. That name might change, but go check that out at hustle and flowchart.com and let's just get into it. So take a deep breath and let's go. Dude, it's great to have you here and got to shout out our boy Anthony for. You know, he just, we just released an episode recently on here. He's been on a couple of times now. Great guy. And you guys go way back, so.

Yes, we do. Yeah. Shout out to Anthony. Thank you very much. And I'm already loving the vibe of Joe. So, yeah, looking forward to this chat.

Yeah, man. And I've been so interested, George, with your background and doing my research and like I was telling you, like, there's. It goes wide, it goes deep, you know, and I'm sure this conversation, we'll see where it navigates. I mean, you have a long history in blockchain and, you know, bitcoin association. What, you're the head of community? Is that what it is? So you got that going on. You're an AI. I already saw your shouting out today, Audiopin AI. Like, I use that app and I think it's freaking awesome. And the story there behind it too. Yes, I just shouted out my previous episode. So now it's. They're just getting all the love now. It's just like ancestral, like how ancient wisdom can relate to tech and all the craziness that we're. We're going through now. So maybe before we dive in, is there any way that you like to describe yourself that you'd like people to kind of know about You. Or present yourself very quickly before we get into some deeper stuff.

Yeah, I hear you. It's. It's so funny that, because I've gone through, gone with, gone by so many names over the years. Right. And just like any human being, Right. We're always evolving. So at this point in time, you know, I'm using the fractional Chief Community Officer. That seems to also be a trend, you know, like. Yes. And it's interesting because I've been doing that actually in the background for a good number of years, and I never felt like a consultant or, you know, these other names fit and this one does seem to fit really well, especially with the type of work environment we find ourselves in. So. Yeah, so fractional Chief Community Officer. The other, like, you know, a fancy name is a digital wayfinder.

I like that.

Research. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're like a lighthouse for all the crazy tech, you know.

Exactly, exactly. And yeah, we'll chat more about all the Web3 stuff and, and what have you.

Cool, man. Yeah, I was. And for everyone listening, you know, like, obviously last year we went deep into the Web three when I had a co host, Matt, at the time at Wolf. He's gone deep into AI now, so I'm sure you've probably seen his stuff since you. You're deep in the AI and yeah, we had a lot of Web3 talks. So, like, I feel like it'd be cool to mash up all that stuff into one and with your perspective.

Happy to.

Let's start off with. There was something I read on your site about kind of like a vision you had on. On top of a mountain in Hawaii about your grandfather and about ancient wisdom and kind of what came to you. So I'm curious of how, if you could tell that story briefly and then how that leads into everything else here.

Yeah, you definitely did your research, man. I'm glad you brought that up. I guess a good way to lead into that too, is. Right. Like, as I've gotten older, I've noticed that a lot of these type of stories have become more appealing to people in my professional networks. And, you know, this might be because maybe, I don't know, maybe it's just like my age, I get. I get more confidence in talking about these sort of subjects. And also maybe there are just more people in the world who are interested. Right. So the story. So when I was in Hawaii a good number of years ago, I was sitting on top of a volcano there. I think it was on the Big Island. And this was when I realized that I have a huge affinity for volcanoes, so I've always enjoyed mountains. The first time I had an experience with a mountain was in Nepal, Kathmandu, so Mount Everest. And I didn't do the base camp hike or anything because I was like, in the eighth grade at the time. Okay, yeah, yeah, right. Young. But there was something magical about it that, like, really made me go. I love mountains. And then, yeah, when I was in Hawaii, was on a volcano. And being there in Hawaii, this was my first time, I felt like more of my Polynesian, I don't know, ancestry stuff just came out, you know, And I. And I would have these, like, really strong, vivid dreams while I was there in Hawaii. And my family, we actually have a very strong background in dreaming in general. And this is something I can chat about more interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, most of the time when people talk about dreams, right, you're talking about our goals, our aspirations, but there's definitely another side to dreams that go way deeper. And so when I was in Hawaii, yeah, I just had this sort of very clear vision about sort of what I wanted to do next and the direction that I was meant to go. And this was to do with my great grandfather, a story that my mom passed down to me. So I never knew my great grandfather, but there was something about him, his story, and I guess his presence around our family that just persisted. And so his. The story that was passed down to us was that when he died, he was asked by my grandmother to essentially take all his old ways away with him. So this was at a time in. In the South Pacific where Christianity was coming in. Obviously, everybody's converting, being forced, you know, into this new way.

Worldwide.

Yeah, worldwide. Right. And he had the foresight to know that this is. This was a change that, like, you can't stop. Right. And you actually find similar stories across many indigenous cultures around the world. So, you know, coming here to Mexico, I also learned that there, the story of Mexico itself, when the Spaniards were here, the conquistadores, that there was a group of people who actually considered their true wealth not to be physical gold. Right. Or any of the things, I guess, that the Europeans thought was valuable for them. And I don't know if know this story, but the. The meaning of Mexico, like the name itself. Do you know what that meaning is?

I think I might have learned it before, but. But please share, refresh me.

So I learned that the. The name is Nahuat for place of the moon's navel. Right. And the reason for that is because here in Mexico, at various different ruins, you might find some statues where they are kind of lying on their back and they're leaning over, they got their knees up. They're looking at their navels, okay. And the navels actually have a bowl of water or a black obsidian disc. Now you might be wondering, what is this? You know, like, why are they doing that? And I learned that it's because they actually used to have people who were trained dreamers. So they would actually look into these at their navels, right, with the water or the obsidian disc, and they would practice dreaming techniques. So we'd call it lucid dreaming today. But they obviously had another name for it, and so they were masters at this, and that's how they would actually construct their societies. So these people would then share this information with, I don't know, the elites, the architects, you know, whoever. And when I was reading stories about it, it was very similar to some of the stuff that has been passed down in my own Polynesian ancestry around dreaming techniques and stuff.

Cool.

So this one, this, you know, took me down a rabbit hole, you know, being in Mexico, connecting it to stuff I experienced in Hawaii. And with my grandfather, he. Great grandfather, he essentially said that, yes, he'll take his stuff away with him. Christianity is coming in. Same thing with Mexico and some of their, I guess, prophets or elders. And they were like, okay, we'll. We'll. We'll take this knowledge with us. But then one day, going back to my great grandfather, my descendants, right? So this is like, maybe our generation will come back seeking the old ways again. And this has just become more and more, I guess, strong in terms of. Of noticing this as I've gotten older, because there have been other people who've been reaching out as I've been talking more about these sort of things, who have said, hey, I've been, like, looking into, like, the history of my family before Christianity. And there's like, all this stuff that, like, you know, I didn't know existed or had been suppressed or I found it in the attic of my. My mom's place. There's something there and how that incorporates in my career with tech. Right. Emerging tech. It's. It's bringing the past knowledge of the past and using it to ground ourselves when we're building new technologies. AI is definitely at sort of the forefront of those conversations because there are all of these potential unknowns. But if you actually go into the myths and legends, there are similar stories that can actually give us clues as to what happened and what we could do to Maybe not repeat the same mistakes. And I'll get into more of that later.

Ooh, interesting. Dude, this is fascinating already. And you're bringing me back to when I was in Chichen Itza and looking at all the. Yeah. The architecture there. And I could picture everything you were saying with the Mexico history and. And with tech emerging. Tech. Cause it's. It is interesting. It's like, what's old is new again. And there's this whole cycle. Everything always repeats in a different form, of course. And with tech, I've thought about it, it's like there's a speeding up, but also there needs to be an equal slowing down. It's always like a yin yang kind of thing. And I remember that feeling with Blockchain, especially last year, when I went deep into it. That was like, blinders on. Which probably wasn't the best idea to put blinders on, but, you know, like. But it was like. Like, I'm gonna miss something. Everything's moving so quick. AI kind of feels like this. I know a lot of folks are feeling like they might be left behind, Automated, whatever. But it's. I want to get your perspective of how that relates to how tech is now emerging. Has always been. But now, like, hyperspeed, it feels like.

Exactly. You know, it's interesting because, again, if you go through history, you'll actually hear the same sentiment for whenever there's some sort of new technology for people at the time, they think that it's moving so quickly. Right. And then, of course, for us, if we look back, how quick. And so it's always relative. But I think looking at a lot of these stories from the past, the most consistent thing I've seen is that there are. The patterns and cycles are always consistent. Right. And there are some stories that say that you're familiar with the stories of Atlantis and Lemuria and those. Those legends.

Yeah, yeah.

If you're a fan of Graham Hancock.

Oh, yeah. He goes deep.

Yeah, yeah. So I knew about these stories from the Polynesian side, but we didn't call it Atlantis, Lemuria, et cetera. Right. So again, going back to stories that we were shared growing up, we had. So in Hawaii, right, they had sort of this mystical continent or land called Hawaii. And the. The Maoris in New Zealand, they also, like, give cadence to their. To these ancestors. Right. Apparently, they came from some continent that existed in the South Pacific. Right. And with these stories, though, they said that they reached a height in their civilization before the technology got the better of them and essentially caused or influenced A complete White House. Right. And there are legends that I've been hearing about here saying that a lot of the folks that were on that continent, in the South Pacific, there was some sort of weird chain reaction, a whole bunch of volcanoes all exploded at the same time. And this was due to experimenting with technology and conflicts between different groups around it. And I feel like AI There was a video that came out today in a tweet from some guy that I follow where he was sharing a scene from a movie back in the 70s, talking about how back then they were imagining if the machine took over, right. And became sentient. And so, like, you know, and I. We might have seen this in a lot of different movies where, yeah, AI becomes sentient.

Terminator, Skynet, you know, that's the reference. Yeah.

But in the 1970s film, you know, the. It went sentient and then, like, launched new nuclear missiles at. At each other. So the USSR and then the US Right? And I think that's the biggest fear right now. So the cautionary tale for these stories, though, right, Whether it's from the South Pacific, South America, even in Europe, Atlantis, Lemuria, all of those stories are cautionary tales of what happens when we disconnect ourselves so much from nature that we try to use technology and be the Creator, be God, and then the creation takes us over. Right? And so with technology now, I think where I find myself in relation to, like, my great grandfather's sort of predictions is that, like, we need to go back into the past to find these potential, you know, truths, right. To ground ourselves so that we do not repeat the same mistakes. Because, again, there are some people who say that, like, a lot of the Atlantean souls and Lemurian souls, right, they're reincarnating in this time to try again, Right?

To be the wayfinders, just more or less.

Yeah, yeah, correct. But of course, with all of these souls, some are good, some are bad, right? And I think, you know, they existed back then. They're going to keep existing. You're always going to have that dance of beginning, end. But I see. I'm seeing that play out right now, you know, in. In the blockchain space. The reason why I got involved, so. Got involved with Bitcoin back in 2013, have been working with the different bitcoin community. So, you know, they had multiple splits, Right? Yeah, I've been following that and being kind of involved in part of that throughout. But through all that, I saw how, you know, maybe even how Christianity, like, came to be. Right. In Terms of like, there's an idea, there's something like revolutionary. And then people in power, the status quo essentially do things to stop things from moving forward, evolving, advancing. Right.

Yeah.

So most people don't know that BTC actually was limited in its technical capabilities because of ideological reasons. So there are a lot of this. Yeah. A good number of years, years ago. So this was when segregated Witness segment. I don't know if you've heard of this.

I've heard of it, but I don't know much. Yeah.

So SEGWIT was essentially something that was. It was like a change in the transaction format for Bitcoin.

Gotcha.

So what this implemented was a desire for people who wanted to feel important in terms of validating transactions. Right. So the way that Bitcoin works is that a true node in the bitcoin network is a miner, and the miner is considered a node based on the sort of rules laid out in the bitcoin. But some people didn't really like that. And this is, this is where you start to see like these class clashes. Right. This always plays out with human beings. So it's like some people saw the miners would become the new powers, the.

New corporations, the validators of currency or whatever. Yeah.

Like, why should they get all the money? Blah, blah. It's like that's. That wasn't the point, but it happened. So people who are afraid of centralization, they managed to have a vote and implement something called segwit. So when people are talking about Bitcoin or, you know, they're saying it's btc, they are often saying, you know, oh, the reason why bitcoin's valuable is that it can't be changed. Not realizing it already has been changed. Interesting. Yeah. This is why it's actually really important for when people are talking about a Bitcoin protocol. It's the rules. Okay. I think people confuse what should change or shouldn't. Some people are like, oh, the code shouldn't change, or oh, the, the number of miners in the network shouldn't change. Right. Like decentralization is such. When you ask like, oh, how decentralized is decentralized enough? You're like, I don't know. So it'll never be enough. Right. In terms of satisfactory decentralization.

And there's no metric really to define what. What is the thing. Yeah.

Right. And if you look at the white paper, wasn't the focus wasn't really on like an ideology or political ideology around decentralization. Right. Like, I am a yin yang fan. Right. Harmony. Right. Things that, like, you always need that balance. So if you go too decentralized, it's anarchy. Right. If you go too centralized, well, it's the current situation that we have in the world. But if you go too far to the other end, it never works out. We've seen examples of that throughout history. Yeah. You know, so with that. Yeah, Bitcoin has been changed already. There are three main versions out there is btc, BCH and bsv. And interestingly enough, BSV has been proving the technical capabilities of Bitcoin. Because bsv, essentially, they just took out Segways, because, yeah, essentially it's like, hey, you know, this was incorporated, but like, it changed the rules. And whoever can change the rules holds the power.

It's like a governance. Yeah. And that. That's where. That's interesting. Okay, so that's a whole. That's a whole different rabbit.

That's a whole different topic. Yeah, I went off on the time.

You're all good, man. No, thanks for. Yeah, well, anyone listening? You know, because I know there's like, there's some newbies, there's some people that are deep. So it's like, it's all good, you know, so choose to go deeper. There's an interesting intersection with AI and blockchain. So I'm curious of how, I guess how you see that and how, like, right now, how it's happening, how we can kind of leverage that. Yeah.

In the conversations of AI. Right. There's a lot of issues at the moment around ethics and, you know, how do we control this? Some people do not think that, I guess, capitalism is going to be enough to curb stuff around AI, and it might not even be the right incentive model. Right. I don't know, really. If there's any ecosystem that's truly capitalist to begin with. Right. Then that's a whole nother topic. But it's one of those aspirational ideals. Right. It's fine, like, I'm not that against capitalism, but I also know that there's a lot of issues with it, but with that, how blockchain fits in is that in a blockchain world. Right. So say, for example, if Bitcoin didn't split and it was, say, like the dominant thing right now, we would have a very clear single blockchain that could be trusted to actually be the plumbing infrastructure for AI. Why is this important right now? The way that AI is working is still working off of, you know, cloud infrastructure. Nothing wrong with it, but it is accelerating the rate of control. We don't have. Okay. In a blockchain world, you can enable things like micro or nano payments. I use nanopayments more because micropayments do exist today. Technically, nanopayments is. We're looking at like less than a cent. Right. Something that you can't have a physical coin for.

Oh, okay. So it's like fractions of. Fractions of a coin and.

Yeah, correct.

Okay.

This was one of the beauties of bitcoin. Right. And blockchain enabled. Right. Because when we talk about blockchain, it's like one part of bitcoin's whole system. Blockchain is essentially. It is essentially a glorified database which allows you to just write to it and never change that. Okay. And so when you make a change that gets recorded, but all of those changes are recorded. Okay.

Yeah. Until the beginning of time of that.

Yeah, correct. The whole miner network aspect was part of the game theory for bitcoin to incentivize people other than banks to validate transactions of nanopayments. Okay. Unfortunately, maybe bitcoin flipped the cart before the horse in the sense that there was not enough financial incentives for the miners to wait for an ecosystem of nanotransactions to get to the billions and trillions. Right. In the early days. So this is, I think, how bitcoin got changed, you know, with SEGWIT and whatnot, to have it be more like digital gold. So then when people are buying bitcoin, they're like, oh, the price will go up. That's an incentive for people to get onto the network. But the real incentive should have been more about volume of transactions. Right. Because that actually incentivizes the network to grow.

That's true. Yeah. It's. It's quantity getting more adoption. Yeah.

Whereas if you have high fees incentivizing people to just hoard. Right. And if you look at Mark until this history. Right. If you look at what the Spaniards like, what happened to them, they hoarded a lot of gold and you didn't have money flowing. And I was sort of part of the demise, you know, for. For the Spaniards. Good point.

Yeah.

So we see the same sort of behaviors play out. Again, coming back to the blockchain aspect is in this type of ecosystem, you would have a digital wallet, Right. Single digital wallet that is your own, of course, on your phone. And all the data, you wouldn't necessarily need to host it on your phone. Right. It would be hosted on a blockchain. Right. Or even if the data is not fully on a Blockchain, it's like the connections to it, no matter where you tap into it. Correct.

Yeah.

Because also not everything, I guess, needs to be on a blockchain. But again, it's that aspect of like, all the changes. Right. And that helps with like, auditing, et cetera. So with that, you then have more control over your data. Like, you would actually see like, in your wallet instead of just like, you know, when you get a subscription, you get a notification. Right. It's come out of your digital wallet. But with this one, you'd actually see like, instead of a line item of just like one subscription, you would see. Okay, hey, for this application, all of these nanotransactions have been taken out for the day. Right. So you. In Bitcoin, they would call them like satoshis. So like, they would say, like, hey, today there's been like, when 1.7 trillion satoshis, like, you know, attempts, you know, to, to try and access your, your data.

Ah, okay. So it's alerting you for the potential of. Yeah, that.

Correct. But when a transaction does go through. Right. You will obviously see that as well, like any other transaction. And, and the reason why that aspect is disruptive is because in the world that we live today, Internet of things, all of these devices, they're communicating with each other all the time because there's so many. We as human beings can't just deal with that amount of like the numbers. Right.

Processing.

Yeah, correct. And so we, we outsource the payment and the worry to someone else, which is what blockchain Bitcoin was trying to help us resolve. Right. From a trust standpoint without needing to just give away everything to somebody else.

Right. So it's all divert. Yeah, it's. It's in the hands of all these nodes, these validators across the globe. Yeah, correct.

And. But they don't necessarily have to be the ones who own it. Like, all they're responsible for is doing what banks do today when they're, you know, validating transactions through their systems. Whereas in, in this type of world, it would just be other people who would just be competing for Bitcoin. Right. As an example, using that and getting a reward for validating that transaction. But they don't need to control or even see the content. They don't care.

Yeah. It's just computation. And they have the device, the running, the energy, whatever it is paying.

Okay, so now we've gone through that, the identity part. Right. So from an identity standpoint, you can see that right now there's a trend for a lot of social media platforms to incorporate verification. Right. This is one good step in the right direction. Right. But of course that can always be gained if we were to take this to the next level. If we were to use a properly scalable blockchain system, then the Identity would be more trustworthy. Okay. And you'd be able to essentially. Yeah. So imagine Notion. Do you use Notion by any chance?

I have. Yeah, not as much anymore, but I. Maybe I will maybe.

Okay.

Yes.

So for me it's become like the. It's like my entire life. You know, I could just like run it through Notion. But Notion provides a hint of what a future Bitcoin digital wallet could actually look like. That is a super wallet.

So. So give me an example of like. Because I'm sure there are some people using it.

Okay. So in Notion right now you can connect almost everything because they use relational databases. Right. And they do it in a way where the interface is so intuitive. Well, not for everybody, for me at.

Least takes a minute. But like it's pretty user friendly.

Right. You can essentially like connect all of these other outside applications. And I can tell you how this is already useful for when you're dealing with content creation. Okay. Right. Now say for example, if you were to use Kajabi. Right. So if I was to use Kajabi, I have to host a lot of my content on their platform, but if I decide to change my platforms, it's stuck there. Okay. And yes, I could export it, but it wouldn't. It's not as easy to do if I actually had something like Notion that hosted my content and I just changed those platforms like their skins.

I gotcha. So like Kajabi's got this silo database. Everything's housed there. They control it more or less. Yep, kind of do. But then Notion has. They're almost like the hub that has the interface and integrations and everything into that.

Correct, correct. So they've taken like, you know, actually almost all applications are databases anyways in the back end. Right. What Notion is doing is that like as a personal, like for my individual content, I can host and manage and schedule all that from Notion and then just put it out to all of these other applications. Right. I've already experienced this where I've actually, I got a, a website. I'm relaunching my, my personal website and I did it all through Notion.

Uh huh. Yeah, I knew that you could do that. So I know they have AI features galore in there now too.

So I tell you, you know, like on Kajabi, I was experimenting with Kajabi for another site launch to something else, and it took me about two weeks to get everything set up right. And of course this is like on the side while I'm working other things, but for Notion, when I realized I could do everything from Notion, I said, okay, fuck it, let me just try.

And you just gave me an idea too. I know, exactly. I'm going to use Notion today to launch something for. Okay, yeah, excellent. Thank you.

Happy to share some things I've learned. But yeah, so with, with Notion, I put it all in there and it's so quick. So, you know, I just change my content here and when I'm ready, right, say to publish, I just change the status to published, and it's like already out on the other applications.

That's right, right, yeah.

So that's where it becomes really powerful. And so that, imagine that say Notion, it's. It's backend was all on a blockchain. Okay? So imagine now Notion is your super wallet. Okay?

Yeah.

And in the back end is blockchain. Right? And then now bring in the AI systems. Okay? So AI, they'll start scanning the web, okay. And they'll maybe find your content. And then when they try to take your content, they'll. They might recognize, oh, actually this content is posted somewhere else, not on this site. Okay. When it attempts to do that, you can actually set it so that if the AI tries to take the content, you'll get notified. It's like, hey, this system is actually wanting to read your content. Do you accept? Then it will have to pay you a nano cam.

Ah, I got you. Okay.

That brings a natural control mechanism to AI, right? Because right now it can just do whatever it wants with all this free content. It's, hey, great.

Especially with Google announcing that they're going to start basically leveraging everybody's content online to give search results based off of something kind of like a prompt on chat GPT. Not really giving love to the actual content owner unless you probably dive a lot deeper.

So imagine in a blockchain world, if somebody wanted to do that, even Google, because of the blockchain's chain of transactions, you can have it set so that you get one, you get credited. So if somebody ever wants to find out where did this piece of information come from, because they're nano payments, you can literally go through the blockchain and find the original creator.

I gotcha. Wow.

Exactly. So even if it's like right now in AI, this is the beauty of Nanopayments say, like it happens to use like a phrase of yours. Right. And because that's what AI is doing, it's just aggregating people's stuff. It can. When. When it uses it, it can be credited to you, even if it's just one phrase, dude.

Okay, so this is. Is this being used at all right now or is this coming 15 years?

I still think we got more to go.

Yeah.

AI is accelerating, but again, human beings are slow. And, you know, again, throughout history, there are stories of where, you know, new innovations have come in. It's taken about 30 years for it to hit like, any. Just like, semblance of mass adoptions. Electric cars, good example. Right. It has been around for decades. But it took Tesla, Right. It took Elon Musk to start to actually commercialize it. Because essentially in our world, if you can't commercialize it, like, be gone point.

I guess it's never going to go anywhere. Yeah.

I actually just wrote an article this morning to my newsletter, subscribers to my premium silks. Interesting story. The Zimbabwean inventor apparently has figured out how to create electricity from the ether.

So, like, it just nothing. I mean, not nothing, obviously, but like.

This, like, Star wars, the Force type stuff.

I love it. Go on.

So, yeah, so look up this guy. So I'll get his name. This is also obviously for anyone listening in. So, yeah, he. He's been considered the Tesla of like, the African Tesla. I know Nikola Tesla was working on this as well. Right?

That was his whole thing.

Yeah. And then the missing files.

Right.

Okay. So, yeah, his name is Maxwell.

If I'm butchering that. I'm sorry, that's.

It's pretty phonetic. Yeah. Cheek kombucho.

Yeah.

Okay. Maxwell. Yeah.

Yep. There's some videos about him on YouTube and tick tock, but yeah, dig in.

Okay.

Yeah. Actually, this morning I found out that he might be dead already.

Oh, no.

There were, I think, three attempts on his life.

Wow. Okay. Because, I mean.

We'Re spreading this. George. I don't know.

But hey, you know, it's already out there too. So. Yeah, don't blame us. Don't, don't.

Just messages.

Exactly. Exactly. But really more the reason why I share that is because whenever there's something truly disruptive, take a look at what is happening around them. If you're getting a lot of pushback from the masses, from the popular groups, from people in power, it's usually a sign for me to pay attention. And I've seen this play out in the bitcoin space too, and it's quite ironic actually with this sort of stuff, especially with the blockchain, bitcoin, nano payments aspect. When you start going down to that level, you'll see how truly disruptive this is. And I say that we still got 50 more years because to make that happen, even the developers have actually have to change the way that they think about building applications.

That's what I say. It's a complete paradigm shift for everyone across the board. It's not just developing, it's regulate or, you know, trying to. There's going to be a lot of hurdles. Obviously, you know, people.

Yes people. And I've just shared another link with you. Yeah, so it's. This article is called notion UTXOs and platform decoupling. So I kind of go into the Notion stuff that I've shared with you, but I go a little bit deeper on the technical side as to what is required for developers to change in terms of their mindset to make all of this work. And because it's such a paradigm shifting thing, this is why I think it'll still take a few more years before we start to see any applications that take advantage of this that makes sense.

So Notion's a great start. And yeah, this is a really good reason to get in there. And because I do see, and I see on your Twitter too, you're retweeting some of their new features. So go follow them on Twitter, go follow George, link everything in the show notes. Of course. Are there any other ways? Cause it's like a. And thank you for sharing all this because it's already shifting how I'm thinking. Like I didn't think the whole nano payment connection, I'm like, oh, damn, okay, I get it. You know, like, at least I think I get it. The tip of the iceberg, what are like, are there other actionable things that or ways that, you know, people listening right now can kind of start implementing in their businesses or at least start practicing or tinkering around with maybe some apps kind of get in there.

Yeah, I think to start shifting your behavior of where you host your own content. So this is why I do recommend Notion a lot is because it will get you into the habit of doing what I see will come with these nano payment applications in the future. And so there may be a fight in the future for folks, companies, right, who are doing what Notion has already been doing. So like I said this about Notion that they've set themselves up well because what they've really done is they've shifted people's behaviors Right. And because of my work in the blockchain space, I can see that already. And what I am advocating for is if Notion then makes the forward thinking move of changing their infrastructure to something that is UTXO based. It would be difficult at first, but I think it would have long term ramifications, positive ones, because they would also be able to help their own users deal with the influx of AI issues that are coming.

So it kind of, yeah, it'll. It's like more actionable in a way. It can like quicken the. If you can kind of know what's happening. And Notion can kind of be the tool that helps you execute that idea and start building towards that future, maybe ahead of most others out there before they're even aware.

Correct, correct. So, yeah, I'm still trying to dig into the Notion team to see if I can make it.

I was going to say we got to hit them up, man.

Yeah, we do, we do.

So what other cause you got your hands in? Because some, like that's a huge future trend and I'm sure there's, there's some other things. I mean, I guess in the now before we kind of wrap up a little bit, I just want to, you know, I'm looking at the time here for you as well, man. Yeah, I'm just thinking of other ways that us as business owners now, us as people that are creators, people that are experimenting. I know we shouted out audio pin. I mean, like, there's a lot of ways that we could kind of change and use AI. Like maybe if we just focus on like what's kind of available now or maybe what's coming in the shorter term. Are there some other, like, must have tools that are kind of changing the way you work now or maybe they're like just about to come out.

Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean, chatgpt, I love everything about what they've done because they provided a very simple user interface. Right. Because if you look at. It's just like a chat app. Right. But it's all that background stuff that really makes it powerful from a productivity standpoint. And again, there was a. Another article. Oh no, I wrote that this morning. So. So there's. I wrote about how in business when you get past all of the different roles and departments, right. At the end of the day, it often always comes down to does what we're doing make money or save time? And I was comparing how the discussions around crypto blockchain, Right. Panned out with regulators versus AI. Okay, so Sam Altman, you know founder OpenAI he's. He's working with regulators early on, right. Versus like in crypto that came way later.

Yeah.

Right. And they attract different crowds. So the people who are attracted to like productivity improvement stuff, right. They're usually more like us. Right. And we can see that. And we're like, okay, I want to find a way to improve, like all my processes, automations, etc. Save time. Whereas unfortunately for blockchain and crypto, because it was tied to the, to money, right. It just attracted a whole bunch of people who just wanted to get rich quick. True.

Yeah.

And so you'd have a lot of people who really belong more in like casinos, right?

Yeah, Gambling.

Yeah, gambling, Right. And then that's what it became about. That's why digital gold narrative also became popular. People were looking at the technology ideologically and going, yeah, this is going to help me get out of poverty. Because they were like those stories, right? People who just became rich overnight.

Yeah. Playing games, you know, and, you know, quitting their job because of it or whatever. But obviously backfires.

Exactly. And we're seeing the effects of that now. So what I was sharing is that like, you've got these business basics, right. Underpinning and connected to AI and blockchain. Right. What we want is like a good sort of unification between the two where you can take the benefits of blockchain beyond just, you know, digital gold or speculation. Right. The nanopayments aspect. Bring it into the world of AI. Right. And then you have a financial incentive to, to control the AI going out of control. Right. So those two together, I think would be like really, really helpful. So using ChatGPT right now, I think from a content creation standpoint, like, it has saved me so much time already.

Oh yeah, same.

Yeah. But getting used to it, of course, is prompt crafting, prompt engineering. Right. Learning that as a skill, but it can be applied to any industry. And what I'm currently doing is experimenting with just getting it to find all of my content on the web, reading all of my articles and producing like one page marketing plan or one page business plan, right. Saying like, hey, this is me from the past. This is where I want to go. Give me a plan. Right. Based on all this information and you got to sit there and, you know, refine it together. Right. It's like a Jarvis, you got to work with it.

That's right.

So that's why I still think human beings are an important part. Right. Of that connection. But there's, I think, a good story for people to check out or you know, Google is a story of what happened when the, the world's best chess player lost to AI for the first time.

That's right. I heard this.

Right. There's a specific book, I forgot its name, but I remember reading it a while back. It had a black and white cover. But it tells a story, right. Of like that chess player. And since I got Google up, I.

Could probably look, I think he quit playing chess. If he's like a grand master and he got beat and he's like, it, I'm out.

Okay. Kasparov.

Okay, sounds right.

Yeah. So Deep Blue was the name of the IBM computer AI. And Gary Kasparov. So Gary Kasparov, yeah. Lost against the computer and he had like a whole like existential crisis. Right?

Yeah, for sure. This also happened with the game Go, I believe.

Yes.

Yeah. Which is even more difficult than chess.

There's a Korean guy, right, or something.

I think so. Yeah. I heard this just last week.

Yeah. I love Go more than chess, so.

Yeah, I've actually never played it. I was like, what the hell am I missing out on, man?

Dude, man. Yeah, yeah. When you come to Mexico, we will go and play some Go.

You'll teach me, right?

Yeah, yeah. So yeah. It's interesting because these games are also a reflection of the cultures. Chess is very much a western type game. If you look at the east, Go is like a lot more free flowing intuitive. Right. That's how I kind of see it. They said like the number of moves in Go is equivalent to like the number of stars in our galaxy or something.

Trillions, whatever. Yeah, yeah.

So when they had, you know, their, I think it was called Alphago or something. Right. You can only imagine how many things it's like processing brute force wise against, you know, these human players. But it won. Yeah. And yeah, you know, we're at a point now where we're seeing these technologies enter our day to day lives. Okay. So the name of the book that I was thinking of was called Deep Thinking by Gary Kasparov. So highly recommend that to anyone listening. Yeah, it is. It gives you an idea of what many of us will start to face when AI starts entering the workforce and comes through robots and whatnot. We're going to be questioning ourselves, just like Gary, if you haven't already. And. But he did find a way out. So what ended up happening with the game of chess is that people started using AI systems to improve their own games. Okay. So they were worried that like, oh, there's no point in playing, you know, chess Anymore, what's the point? But that's not what happened. The machine was able to teach human beings more about themselves than anything else before.

Yeah.

And I feel like that is what is possible for us with ChatGPT and all this other stuff.

It's interesting, man. Yeah, I'm going to pick that up. Just finishing a book. Perfect timing, man. I mean, I was just chatting with my cousin who's a, you know, he went to Stanford, coder, who worked Silicon Valley. And he's like, I'm seriously thinking about bailing from his, you know, from his profession because of this. He's like, it's coding better than me or almost. And. And I was like, I think there's a different way to look at it. You know, like, I'm like, don't just bail out, dude. So I'm just sending this book, you know, like, hey, read up.

I think the system, the systems themselves will. I'm already seeing how expertise is still useful because there's something happening with AI systems right now called, you know, AI hallucination, where they're convincingly giving us false information. Right.

It's like very confidently giving it to you.

And it's just a reflection of the data sets. Right. Garbage in, garbage out is another term used in like computer science and what have you. But yeah, like, that's what happens when you're. You're telling systems to just go read the Internet, right. It will pick up all this stuff, but it doesn't know what's true or not. Yeah. You can convince it to believe something that's not factually correct.

There needs to be a training period or something.

Yeah, right. But it's getting better, Right. And so what human beings and experts specifically can do is also help. You know, you use the ChatGPT to start you off. It's great for. If you're having, you know, writer's block or mental blocks, right. Just start working with it and it helps them to get into flow. Then the experts can provide like, more nuanced refinements, you know, to what is up. So I use it for content creation. Right. But I will, once it's like I've got a draft, I will go through it and add my own comments, essentially, you know, to it. I'll take things out, which I'm like, I don't really agree with that, but it at least helps me get started. And I think, I think that's key when it comes to these systems.

I agree, man. And, you know, Chat GPT, you can browse the web now, too. So it's like. That's getting interesting. I'm not going to date the episode, so I won't say when they happened, but yeah, man, it's getting crazy. And I think having that humanity aspect, having knowing how to think, I think is a big key and discern what bullshit is and what, you know, reality is, but the lines are blurred. So it's an interesting time, but we got to root ourselves, ground ourself and.

Exactly.

George, I want to point people, and we'll wrap this up right here. I wanted to do another chat, man.

If you're open to it, if you.

Give it a, you know, a bunch of time, like a couple months or something, and be. I'm just kidding, you know, because, you know, it's like years.

Exactly. Where.

Where can people go to dive in more? I know you're all over Twitter, but you also have some. You have a great blog and newsletters and stuff, too.

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, best places. Yeah. Now my website. So. Georgecoc.com. yeah, so it's George. And then CLC is s I o s I dot com. Yeah, I'll be updating that soon. But, you know, keep the domain name the same. So it's all right, you know, you don't have to know any other links for social media. Yeah, you can find me at the same name @george, CLC on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn. You can find me there as well.

And, George, you've already expanded my brain. I love it. This is what I'm here for. I hope everyone else enjoyed it, too. They're probably questioning a lot right now. And that's. That's the point.

Exactly.

Dive in deeper, y'.

All.

All right, George, appreciate you, man. We'll do it again. All right. All right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live. If you need to do the work. But, you know, work can be fun, and it should be fueling for your life. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list, writing a review or whatever it might be, everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast and I will see you next time.

Sam.