George Bryant - This Email Strategy Gets An 87% Open Rate

When we think about email, the first thing to remember is most people think the purpose of email is to sell. On my list, that's number six. Because in order to sell an email, what do they have to do? Have to open it, right? Well, what determines if they open it? Is it the content in the email? No, because they can't get there. Is it the subject line? No, because you can be as sleazy as you want. It's the relationship with the name that determines if they even get to the subject line, which then determines if they even open the email, which then determines if they even read the content to then determine if they even take the action. But people will talk about all the logical ways to sell. Selling is feeling, not thinking.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

You are in for a treat today. This episode that you are about to listen to is definitely going to be one of our most talked about episodes. And personally for me, probably in the top five of my favorite episodes we've ever record. Now, we did a survey to our list fairly recently and we asked, you know, what types of shows do you like? What guests did you like? What guests didn't you like? What topics do you want to hear more of? What topics do you want to hear less of? And when we asked who people liked overwhelmingly, the top response of favorite episodes were George Bryant and Roland Frazier. Those were the two that the most people said they loved. And so we've had Roland on three times already. We only had George Bryant on once. So we said, let's get George back on if everybody loves his first episode. And it's one of our most popular episodes. We've gotta bring George back for round two. So that's what we did in this episode. We brought George Bryant back for round two. And this one we got ultra tactical. So in the first time around, he kind of explained his concepts from a 30,000 foot view. He sort of explained them, the overarching strategies and philosophies of what he teaches. Now on this one, we dove way more into the weeds, got really actionable, really tactical. I don't know how many times in this episode George said, man, I have never taught this stuff for free before. This is the only stuff that I teach my paying clients. Luckily, we're good friends with George Bryant and somehow we managed to squeeze this really, really actionable stuff out of him. Now this episode we really, really focus on email systems. George Bryant, his very first email that Goes out to his list, I think he said, gets a 98% open rate, something. And his average email that he sends to his list gets an 87% open rate. Industry standards are like 10 to 13% open rates. He's getting 87% open rates. And he is very strategic about it. He was very methodical. He didn't just accidentally get that kind of response from his email. He has a system and a process which he maps out in great detail on this episode. Honestly, guys, this is probably one of my favorite episodes we've ever recorded. Both because I love George. I love his personality, I love his energy, but also because this is one where somebody can listen to it and literally go build out what George tells you to build out and get insane results in your business. This is something that people, to get this information from George in the past would have paid multiple thousands of dollars for. So this episode, I cannot understate. I can't overstate the value of this episode. This is pure gold. So get ready to take some notes. If you can't take notes, you're driving, you're out for a run, you're in a place where you can't take notes. We're also taking notes for you on this episode and we're willing to give you those notes for free if you're willing to go join our Facebook group within two weeks of this episode going live. So if you go to flowchartgroup.com that will redirect you to our Facebook group. You can request to join there. When you request to join, we will send you an email with links to our notes for our most recent episodes. So any episodes that came out within two weeks of this going live are what you'll get for free. But you have got to go sign up for the Facebook group over@flowchartgroup.com once you do that, we will hook you up with these notes. Also, this episode is sponsored by Ahrefs, our favorite SEO tool. The tool we've been using long, long, long, long, long before they were ever a sponsor. And we are so happy that they decided to come and sponsor us because we only want to work with companies that we love and use ourselves. And Ahrefs definitely falls into that category. I'm inside of Ahrefs every single day looking for new keywords to go after looking at what kind of things we're ranking for. One of my favorite things to do is go and see what keywords we're already ranking for that get a lot of traffic. And then once I find the Keywords we're already ranking for that get a lot of traffic. I know that those are things that we can lean into and create more content around. So if we're getting a lot of traffic for a keyword around email marketing, I know that a lot of people are finding our website as a result of searching topics around email marketing. Maybe that's a good indicator. We should make more podcasts around email marketing. So it's a great intel tool as well to figure out what should I be making more of? What kind of podcasts should I be doing? What types of people should we be bringing onto our show based on how now people are already discovering us? So really, really cool ways to lean into the data that you get from ahrefs.

I can't say enough about it. We use it constantly. I feel like guests on our show seem to bring up ahrefs about every other show somebody's mentioning Ahrefs. So everybody that is doing things right in the digital marketing world, everybody that we've talked to that really has their systems dialed in seems to be using Ahrefs for the SEO component of their business. So, you know, if you're not using it, you really should look into it. And they've got a real low barrier to entry to get in. They've got a $7, seven day trial. So for a buck a day, you can get in there, play around with it, see how valuable it is, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna stick with it once you see how valuable it is. So go check out that seven day, $7 trial over@ahrefs.com. all right, get ready to nerd out with us with George Bryant.

Mr. Bryant, we're rolling.

Round two.

Yeah, it's interesting. So you know this. We did a survey to our list, I don't know, maybe a month ago, and some of the questions we asked were, what are your favorite topics? Who are your favorite guests? What were your least favorite topics? What were your least favorite guests?

You were number one.

You were the category. You were voted the favorite guest by the people that filled out the survey.

So wasn't the least favorite.

It was either the favorite or the least. I can't remember. It was one of those two.

But I think it depends on how they hear me.

Your name showed up on the survey. Let's just put it that way.

You're on the best of list for sure.

Yeah. So people were saying that you were their favorite episode. So I went to Joe and I'm like, if everybody says they're the Favorite episode. Don't. Didn't we just give them more of what they want?

I'm still waiting for you guys to launch the Not Joe Rogan show with Brad.

Yeah, well, no, it's called Not Not Joe Rogan.

Not. Not.

Not. Not Joe Rogan.

Not Joe Rogan.

I love it. And I love. I loved. I love the Sir. I loved the. The therapy episode where you guys broke that down, though. It was dope.

Yeah. I just think it's hilarious that Brad was shocked that Not Not Joe Rogan was available.

I know. And he bought it.

And he bought it.

All y' all listening? Good luck.

Oh, anyway, yeah, so this. This episode is an episode for the fans. This is the. This is the. The George Bryant fan episode.

Well, last time, we went deep relationship building, which, like, you are the epitome of that. But also, I mean, now we're gonna deep dive into the email side, which is really the tactical of what we chatted about in round one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tell people, like. And I'm actually really stoked. I'm like, fire. You stuck recording me already. But literally, with that customer journey, understanding the picture, like, I look at the customer journey like it's the human body. Email is literally the blood that, like, circulates through the body. Like, it is, like, literally what keeps it going. And so it's kind of a perfect segue.

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if the audience knows this. I don't know if we've talked about it, but after we podcasted with you last time, after we interviewed you last time, I think a couple weeks later, you sent us a message and said, hey, come on up to my house. Let's go get lunch. I'll break down some email stuff for you, and we'll figure out how to do some cool shit in your business in the form of email. So Joe and I drove an hour north up to your house, and we had lunch, and you stood in front of the whiteboard and mapped out a whole email system for. Oh, yeah, it was a blackboard.

It's still there, by the way.

Yeah, that's that good. From that day. It's still there. That's so awesome.

I'd love you to take a picture or something. Yeah.

So we went up there, and you mapped out a bunch of stuff for us. And then I think we started talking about some of our new email systems on the podcast, and we got connected to a guy named Joe Kearns, who I think you might be familiar with as well.

Mike Alvarez.

And Mike Alvarez. And they study a lot of your stuff and your email marketing philosophy and they reached out and said, hey, can we help you build out some of the stuff that George mapped out for you? So now we're working with Joe Kearns and Mike Alvarez to map out, to actually build out the stuff that you mapped out for us.

Love it.

It was like the best synergy. Matt, you love it.

We love Bible like synergy.

Everything just fell into place like right after that meeting with you.

The food was so good.

Oh yeah, yeah. That was like the, I think it was the first time we ate out like in person in this whole friggin weirdness probably months. It was amazing.

Heavenly.

Let's do it again.

Let's do it again.

We should do it again. So are you moving out of California? Is that the game plan?

Yeah.

The goal is to leave Calmy Fornia and end up in Yellowstone. Yellowstone show did it. No, Montana. We're going to Montana. My wife and daughter, literally, as we're recording this, are driving and road tripping through Montana right now. They planned a six day trip through every city in the state. They're doing a helicopter tour of Glacier National Park. They're going to Yellowstone. They did like a historic Butte, Montana tour today which is like I guess the third city in the United States. Electricity and like there's all this mining stuff and apparently when it rains there you have to take a shower and wash your clothes right away or the heavy metals in the rain from all the mining will wear holes in your clothes.

I've heard of the mining there being.

A view and I was like, so let's not go there, go somewhere else. So they're driving like six hours north to Whitefish to be up in like the mountains.

So that's cool.

Why are you not there?

Yeah, well, yeah, I'm a little jealous. I'm a little jealous. But I was like, do we road trip through Montana with a 15 year old and a 4 year old or do we keep a 4 year old in some semblance of normalcy with daddy while mommy and daughter go explore and fall in love with it? Like they're going to take care of it way better than I am. I'm going to focus on the wrong things. And I'm like, I've learned at this point in my life if I just say yes, they always create the best solution. And when I try to control it, it never goes well.

We gotta, we gotta make sure we get together while you still live in California.

Oh we will, we will.

And then again when you're in Montana, because that sounds awesome.

Oh, you guys are coming out. The goal. The goal is a minimum of 100 acres, and then I'm not renting any more event spaces. I am building my own event space, and it will have, like, my gym, like the Rock, but also my office, plus also an event space on my property.

All right.

Oh, yeah, fire pits. They'll be outside nature. I'll have ice baths outside the room. I'd be like, hey, marketing intensive. After you take an ice bath.

Yeah, buddy. Oh, yes. Do a little Brett. Invite a Laird Hamilton over there. Go run an XPT or something on your place.

I love Laird.

I was just doing that about breathwork, so. All right, we're getting off topic. Yes.

Let's get into some tactical ninja amazing stuff. So, you know, you broke down the, like, these email strategies for us, and there's really kind of a couple of veins we want to go down in this episode. We want to. We want to sort of get into the nitty gritty of some of the email philosophies, and then we also want to talk a little bit about Facebook groups and engagement. And I have a feeling your philosophies in both those areas are going to have some overlaps. So let's. Let's go ahead and start with. With email. So what you broke down for us was this sort of system where when somebody gets on your list. So here was the big paradigm shift that we got out of meeting with you is when somebody opts in for a lead magnet. What does most people do once they get that email? They put them on an email list, and they just send them, like, here's the next thing, right? So I just opted in for this cheat sheet around email marketing, right? So I opted in for that. You deliver it in email. But then my next email might be like, here's your next podcast episode that's completely unrelated to email marketing that I just opted in for. So the paradigm shift you gave us is whatever they just opted in for. Make sure that your first handful of emails are, like, super tied into the thing that they just opted in for. And then once they're sort of getting used to you and getting this stuff, then you can sort of start to veer in other directions if you want to. And then you get into this whole, like, segmenting system, which we'll get into as well.

So that's. That one might require a whiteboard in person for the segments. But, yeah, the thread you're about to pull is a really good one.

Yeah. So you Know, you can probably break down this philosophy better than I just did. So, yeah, let's just dive into it.

I love it. So, like, first, like, that's probably the biggest one. So in my opinion, most people overcomplicate email with no appropriate evidence to do so. Right. And it's really the simplification of the thinking process that makes this easy. So I love analogies and metaphors, right? And this is going to get there, but when we think about somebody giving us their email, it always comes asking for something in exchange, right? So there's an expectation. And so when we think about that, we're like, oh, yeah, they gave us their email. We promised to deliver this. We have kind of a fiduciary duty to deliver it. But what we don't think about is that if we don't deliver it, we actually make it harder for them to move forward, right? So if we make a promise and we're like, hey, I'm help you lose five pounds. And then before they lose that five pounds, we throw something else in, we increase their reactance to saying no. And so it's actually thinking about this differently makes your business easier, your email easier, and delivers results a lot faster. And so, like the analogy I always use, like, if you have a client come to you, like you're seeing somebody in person, like, hey, I'm on a diet. I want to have chicken and rice for lunch. And you hand it to them. But then while you're walking, you walk them through a donut shop, right? And a dessert shop. Like, literally all you're doing is setting them up to fail. And at the end of the day, they're gonna doubt themselves, not want to do it, and it's gonna feel a lot harder than if you're like, hey, I wanna have chicken and rice. Like, hey, meet me at the park. Here you go, here's your water. Let's go work out. You create an environment that guarantees they can succeed at what you promised them. And so when we think about email, the purpose of email is to create a container or a journey that guarantees that you promise that you deliver on what was promised or gives them the best possible solution, right? And the reason I do this is I hate losing. Like, I just hate losing. And I'm always afraid I'm going to do it wrong and it's not going to work. And so I started thinking about this, and literally 12 years of doing email marketing, I was like, what is the game I'm guaranteed to win? Like, where the worst thing that happens is someone's like, hey, I'm so mad at you that you helped me achieve a goal. Like, I'm so pissed that I got what I wanted and I didn't pay you. Like, there's really no way to lose it. So what I like to think about is I envision somebody standing in front of me, right? Somebody comes to me and they ask me for help with the one thing that I told them I can help them solve, right? And understanding human, like humanity and the brain. If they're standing in front of me and you guys come like, I want to do email differently. I'm like, all right, I want you to do this, this, this, this, this, this. You're gone. Like, you're gone. Like, hey, I just want you to do this. And then the next day I want you to do this. And I think about if that person was in front of me and I had a minute a day to give them a direction, what would it look like and how long would it take for me to get to the end result? And so if they're coming in to lose, let's say five pounds, like I'm going to help you lose five pounds in 30 days. Well, when you think about customer journeys, you can either go for duration or direction. That's how I break them down, right, Duration or direction. And so if you're going to help somebody lose five pounds in 30 days, well, you gave it a 30 day timeline. That is a duration. You need to design a journey that lasts for 30 days. If you're going to say I'm going to help you lose five pounds with my three step process, well, that's direction. You need to create the process and the container that helps them with that process. And this doesn't necessarily mean that you have to email them 30 days in a row, but you have to create this environment that they can get there, right? So that's the first thing. It's just the thinking. And so when we give somebody a lead magnet or we're doing lead gen and whatever reason we're doing lead generation, there's something that they are expecting to receive in return. And so the way that I break it down is I'm like, okay, if I can only give them one thing a day, what can I give them and what guarantees that they will get it done? And then I basically list them out and I put one per sticky, like sticky note one. The first thing I always do is congratulate people. Hey, you gave me your email in exchange for something in return. I want you to know that you're safe. You made the right decision. I want you to know that I see you, I hear you, and you're respected. Hey, congratulations. The secret to losing weight is actually just starting. And isn't it great to know you already won? I am not going to tell you everything to do today because weight isn't gained in a day and it is not lost in a day either. So I just wanted you to know that you are in the right place. We are here. And tomorrow morning, we are going to hit your inbox with everything you need to prepare to get ready. But in the meantime, if you want to hang out in the family, here is a link to our Facebook group. Email one. And I'm like, imagine what that feels like. And it's like, here's the link to download it, here's the link to go. And then we also have to understand that when we're in this world of attention, right? And if you're listening to this, I'm like playing things with my hands and thumbs, like you're gonna see it, but we're in the world of attention. People are scrolling, right? They'll be on social media, they'll see an ad, they'll hear your podcast, and they're gonna have this dopamine of like, I want that right now. But that doesn't mean they're gonna take action on it right now, right? And the amount of times they're like, I want it right now, I hit their inbox. And then they never even download the PDF, they never even upload the video they of it. So they have this negative experience. So we just want to understand the human nature. On the other side of this, we are trying to.

Meet them where they are. They came and opted in. They asked for something. We're like, I see where you are. And then we have to understand what breadcrumbs are required to take them out of what's comfortable for them, out of what is in their life, and help them achieve the change that they're looking for or the awareness that they're looking for or the information they're looking for. And so I just simply break it down as pretty archaic as I can because I'm not the brightest crayon. I'm like, what would I need to hear from an mvp minimum viable product perspective to achieve what's promised and then make it a sustainable result. So that's why I turn it sideways. So. Email one. So first up, I'm about to design a customer journey. I'm just going to give you guys everything if you're listening, you're welcome. People pay a lot of money for this duration or direction. That's it. That's the first thing that you have to ask yourself. I'm designing this customer journey for a lead magnet or even a paid product. Do I want to do it over a set amount of time or do I want to do it over a amount of steps and a process? Because you have to know the container to get them there. So that's the first thing I ask. And so then I'm like, cool, it's going to be time based. We'll do 14 days. I'm like, awesome. And then I look at it and I'm like, what are the big ideas that I have to teach people? And really what you do is if you have like a PDF and it's 15 pages, turn it on its side. And those are all your emails. Page one, page two, page three, page four, page five, right? Or if you have a three step process, turn it on its side. Email one, Congratulations, you're in the right place. Email two prep. Those are my first two that go in the beginning of everything. So for everybody listening, step one, duration, direction. Step two, figure out what path you need to design and then start designing it. And every path for me always starts with email 1. Congratulations. Welcome to the family. I see you, you're in the right place. You made the right decision. The hard work is over. NLP the crap out of them. This is easy. You've already achieved the result. Did you know Your life is already working. You've aligned your subconscious pick how deep you go in. The psychology of this. Email too is always prep, always. Just like anything, we give preparatory commands. We're like, hey, we're going to go to dinner. Hey kids, we're leaving the house in five minutes. Hey honey, we're leaving for dinner in five minutes. Hey guys, we're going to cover this in the podcast. Hey, it's always a preparatory command, right? So I see you, you made the right choice. You're in the right place. I welcome you. Email to. This is what you need to succeed. Let's eliminate every objection before it happens, right? Hey, we're going to teach you how to lose five pounds in 30 days. And the truth is you have everything you need at the house. But intentionality is your secret. I want you to lay this out. I want you to put this here. I want you to lay the clothes out the day before. Because tomorrow morning we get started and there can be nothing in the way of you waking up and Getting started. Right, so it's whatever prep you need and then email 3. If it's duration, it's day one. Here's what I need to do every day and you give people one thing to do. Day one might be journaling or self awareness or going for a five minute walk or drinking water. And so what you always want to think about is every email takes somebody on a journey, every one of them. It meets them where they are, it gives them a topic idea, a focus, tells them where they want to go and then gives them one call to action to get them there. And then it sets context for what's coming the next day. Copywriting 101. Hey, you're here. We're super excited to get ready. Reminder. I'm going to help you lose five pounds the next 30 days and today momentum is your best friend. And that's all we're creating today. Today you're going to go on a five minute walk. Here's why it's important and here's how to do it and winning your day. So go on the walk right now and then when you're done, I want you to journal it and keep your eyes peeled because Tomorrow morning at 9am the email will come with this subject line and we're going to be talking about hydration. Close the email and then you can have a super signature. P.S. make sure you post a win on Instagram of your walk so I can come encourage you. Use the hashtag this and tag me. Make sure you post in our Facebook group how amazing you feel. When you're done, make sure you do a live video on your walk. Right? That's where you build the relationship and so you basically break it down. And so for duration it's pretty self explanatory. Welcome prep. Day one, day two, day three, day four, day five, day whatever you need. And then at the end of it you have to wrap it. You have to give them a conclusion. No book ends on chapter 12, it ends on the conclusion. No movie ends without a conclusion. Right? So the completion is the climax. But they're also going to be like, am I complete? What happens now? So you have to complete it, you have to complete it and close it. So you give a wrap email and then you give a next step email. That could be a sales email, could be an escalation email, could be a transition email to a different sequence. But what you just built is a container. And that container ensures that no matter what you can go to sleep and be like, yeah. Anybody who reads these has Everything they need to succeed outside of me in their corner. Right? Like, you can weigh your hat on that. But what it actually also gives you is accurate data, right? Like it lets you know where people are falling off, where they're achieving results, where you need to shift your program. You can add questions to these emails. And so you build it. And so that's how I do duration. When I do direction, the only thing that I do is I do a congratulations, you're here. And then I do a prep to get started. And then I do like an introduction to the topic. Right? So if I have one topic, I tend to break it down. Introduction, like overview, prep, execution, check in rap.

And so literally, I've never taught this publicly ever. You guys are. It's horrible because we're friends and so I will literally pretend like we're at dinner.

I'm like, if you are listening to this right now, like, I can't even tell you how valuable this is. If you literally listen to this.

Yes. No, this is ultra valuable. In fact, you said so much. There's a few things I want to sort of pinpoint in on and sort of discuss a little bit.

Oh, yeah, can we unthread that once I wrap this one? Yeah. Okay, cool. So then with direction, it's a congratulations, then it is a prep, and then I do overview of topic, right? Let's say it's three topics. Overview of topic one, right. And then I give them a prep to execute topic one, and then I give them topic one, and then I do a check in. How's topic one going? Now's a good time to catch up. Make sure you're doing this. And then I wrap topic one and then I transition into overview of topic two. Right? So then when you do direction, it's typically like a genius model, right? Or a three step process or a five step process. I treat each one of those processes or each one of those steps like it's its own micro journey inside of a journey. And so that's how I do direction, and that's how I do duration. And I'm gonna have to have my team listen to this.

We will send you back the notes on all of this too, because we do take notes on every episode.

Yeah, we'll just send those to you.

That's how I see it. So to go back, what it is, what we have to understand is like human psychology, right? And just really simple, not like this crazy understanding, but like just behavioral psychology in the way that we work as human beings when we come seek something I'm going to give you something in exchange for something. We are advocating our safety and accountability to the person we're doing it with. There's a part of us, it's like something's not working. I need something. I want to learn something. These are the people that I'm trusting with my email to deliver what was promised. And what's missed is that if what was delivered, what was promised is not delivered, they end up having their last interaction with the brand to be a no. And so they can't buy, they can't escalate. They'll stop consuming social and they'll stop engaging just because subconsciously they felt like they didn't get what was delivered. And so then we understand that, like, we're changing somebody's beliefs. We're shifting them from where they were to where they want to go. And I could garden hose you all day, and you're only going to remember like, 3% of it, right? But if I give you 1% a day for 30 days, you'll probably remember all of it. And at some point, you get enough endowment with what I'm doing, you literally can't leave. And so it's all of these things of that that are just relational, being put into practice. And so you have a lot better chance. And so, like with companies and physical products companies, you know, I do this with supplements all the time. The guaranteed way to grow your supplement company is spend the first 30 days making sure they take your supplement every day and achieving the result that's there.

It's habit building, right?

It's all habit building. So go read Atomic Habits by James Clear and then ask yourself, where can I harp on habits and make myself a part of a habit? Not the habit itself.

Because then you're a tool for them. But they're winning and they're like, oh, yeah, this feels good. Oh, yeah, this. Oh, when I drink water, I think about Joe and Matt. Oh, when I do breath work, I think about Joe and Matt, like. And that's the game. And so it's really, really important that everybody, I tell you, just take a step back for a minute. And the way that I look at this, I'm like, if I had them standing in front of me to close this loop, and I had a minute a day, and I had to get them from where they are to where I promised them they can go, what would I give them that day? And then what would that journey look like? And then that container I just gave you guys is the exact way that I designed These, Dude, I think that's.

A great container right there. Is just a minute a day. What do they need to further this journey? That we know that they already gave up something of theirs, their truck, and it's going to further them. So we're always going to give them more than what we took.

Well, what we have to remember is there's this. I don't want to call it thought. Thinking, but I think there's this disconnection from understanding that when most people are seeking something from you, there's already not enough space in their life to have it.

Right. Right.

Like, they're already full and then looking for something. Right. So if. If you want to understand this, really, the book the Catalyst by Jonah Berger will help you the most. But when somebody is in their experience, right. And then they. They. They peek out a little bit of like, I want something different. Right. They have what's called a zone of acceptance. How far they're willing to push out of that zone to create something different.

Mm.

But if the time commitment or the energy commitment or the hard level is too much, it falls into the zone of rejection. And so the thing that's designed to help them, if too far out or too complicated or too hard or too overwhelming will actually create more reactants and have a negative effect. And so, like, my brain is always like, breadcrumb, Jack and Jill. Breadcrumb, Jack and Jill. Breadcrumb, Jack and Jill. Like, I say it all the time.

Yeah.

You're not trying to just. I mean, I feel like a lot of us, and I know we've been guilty of it. Let's just give them everything that we think they need or what they gave us. Their. You know, they gave their email to us. Well, let's just give them everything that they asked for. Well, let's break it up for them.

Actually, it's doing them a disservice by just going like, here's everything. Like, they don't have a journey. They don't know which thing to start on. They don't. Yeah.

Yep. And then what ends up happening is they're like, I knew I shouldn't have done this. This is too hard. It was easier to stay how I was. And then they stay stuck in a pattern. And we as business owners are like, I swear I'm help here to help you make your business easy. And they're like, why does it always feel hard when I see your content?

Yeah.

Right.

And then that's where people start to sense this incongruency at a big level of Scale, right? Like, and there's examples around us, right? Like it's Nike says, just do it. Right. People don't feel hard. Or when they pay, it's like, no, it's easy. I just have to go do something. Like Mel Robbins five second rule. It's not like my 55 second rule or my five minute rule. It's like, what can I do just to get somebody in movement, get them in momentum, get them in progress. And so what you end up doing when you can do this and break it down is when somebody's in their current state, they're in their world that they're in. And it's a really easy yes because it's. I just need you to read this for 10 seconds. I just need you to do this one thing. I just need you to think about this one thing. Write this one thing down, schedule this one thing in your calendar. You're starting to give them cooperating evidence that it's worth changing.

And then you're pulling them out of their end zone, past their zone of acceptance, into a new realm to create something different. But when they come out, it's easier to keep going than it is to go backwards because it was so simple to come out. And this now feels so hard.

And each, each sort of like little tweak along the way in this email sequence is such a subtle shift away from their comfort zone that they never actually realize that they're getting away from that comfort zone.

Totally. It's the same. It's like literally how I parent my 4 year old. Like the worst thing is, is like if something doesn't go well, like the worst thing you do is like, I'm taking it away. Like, you don't take things away, right? You ask questions like, no, we're gonna do this different. Like, if I change this bedtime, I don't change it by 30 minutes, I change by 30 seconds.

Yeah.

And I change it by 30 seconds every day for 45 days.

The whole trick of like wake up a little earlier. Well, just, you know, five minutes earlier a day or even a minute earlier a day.

The thing is, is my son, my son fell in love with waking up at 5am and I didn't mind because I'm home from the gym at that time. But then I was like, hey, you're three.

You're an anomaly, by the way, in that sense.

I was like, you're three. Like, if I wasn't like, you know, weird, I'd be sleeping right now, right? I was like, go to bed and I Literally realized like I would be like, hey Bubs, and you just stay in your room till 5:10. Right. And it was even hard for him. Right. Because he wanted to come up. He was so patterned into it. And so I got him a clock that changes green when it's time to get out of his room.

We got one of those for our kids too. Yep.

So it's an alarm clock. And then I checked the time. So five. Oh, one for four days. Yeah, 503 for four days, 507 for four days. And then one day he said, daddy. It woke me up and I was like, oh, jump. And I moved it 15 minutes.

Yeah, exactly. That's my indication. Bump it up.

And then I was there and then now it's literally he does not come out of his room until 6:30.

Wow.

Yeah, that's such a great analogy for this too. So smart. Yeah.

Yeah. And so that's it. So I wanted to complete that thought, but now we can unpack those threads.

Yeah. So this might be kind of getting into the weeds a little bit, but when it comes to just email number one, I feel like one of the hardest things is getting them from the opt in to just opening that first email. Right. And you know, we were talking to Chris Benetti, a mutual friend of all of ours yesterday, and I don't know, these numbers may not be accurate, I don't know, but he was like, man, I bet George Bryant gets like 85% open rate and like 50% click rate. And I'm like, yeah, if they open that first email, then they're hooked in. Is there anything that you do to get that first email opened?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So over 95 emails, my average open rate is 87%.

Yeah.

And what's that? What's the average of intelligence industry? Let's just say marketing.

1312 to 13. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's consistently that. And I wanted to wait till I had the range of 90 emails because everyone's like, oh, it's easy to get it on emails.

Two, three.

I'm like, show me your first email. My first email is 98% by the way.

I do remember Chris actually saying something like upwards of 90%. Like.

Go ahead.

Well, I was gonna say, I understand, like, you know, if somebody gets your first email and they're like blown away by the first email, well then the second email is a little bit easier to get opened and the next email.

Is a little questions matter.

But that first email is where a lot of people will drop off. They'll opt in because they see an ad on Facebook, they think they want the offer, they get the email in their inbox, and by the time it shows up in their inbox, maybe they check it an hour later, they're kind of going, eh, I thought I wanted that. And nevermind, I'm just going to archive this email, right?

Totally, totally. So let me context this. So I have an email program. I'm giving you guys like 2% of it. Context matters. There's a lot deeper that I can't cover in this, but I've never answered this on a freaking podcast. Okay? So this, the. I love you guys. This is, this is the Jack and Jill thing. And I mean this like ethical leadership. Leadership is figuring out how to create a container where the only option is success. That's it, right? This is where I lean back into my military career, right? Like I was like, how do I get 50 men that don't like each other to do what I want them to do that none of them want to do? That's basically the level of thinking I put into this, right? And so when we think about email, the first thing to remember is most people think the purpose of email is to sell. On my list, that's number six, right? Because in order to sell an email, what do they have to do? They have to open it, right? Well, what determines if they open it? Is it the content in the email? No, because they can't get there. Is it the subject line? No, because you can be as sleazy as you want. It's the relationship with the name that hit their inbox that determines if they even get to the subject line, which then determines if they even open the email, which then determines if they even read the content to then determine if they even take the action. But people will talk about all the logical ways to sell, right? Selling is feeling, not thinking. So the questions are, is like, what do I want people to feel when they open an email? Like, you got to drop into empathy for this one. And so I look at us and I'm going to ask both of you, if you look at your inbox and our email habits, right? I, I don't go my inbox anymore. My team handles it because they kick me out of it. But that's a different story for another podcast.

If you go into your inbox right now, anybody listening? If you go into your inbox, you open your inbox, and however your relationship is with your inbox, if you don't see an email, there's an email that you look for every Day?

Sure.

Why?

Expectation, expectation.

Relationship value. Right. And then there's days that you open your email, and every single time you see an email from this one person or this one place, the first thing you do is delete it.

More than one.

Yeah, but you won't unsubscribe, right? Because they still have a thread of a relationship to pull that they don't realize that they broke with you. And then there's the third one. It's immediately like, marcus, spam unsubscribe. Right. So what I ask people is, I'm like, hey, what gets you to look for that email? Like, I get between 30 and 50 emails in a day if I do not send an email. So I send a daily email. When I was making this new email program, the Eternal Flame method.

I paused. I was like, I'm focusing on this with my team for two weeks. That's it. The first day I didn't send an email. We got 55 emails.

These are email replies from your list.

Where is my email? Why didn't you send an email? I missed my email today. Where are you? I need my content. Where's the podcast?

Are you alive?

And my team was like, what did you do? I'm like, this is what happens when you do this the right way. But what you have to realize is, like, what does it take? And I'm saying this to answer the question because it's. It's a question that's in here. And I'll give you the tactic. But what you have to remember is that an email is just a relationship. It's a text message. Email marketing is easy when you understand it. Email marketing is easy, but what happens in an email is a relationship. Litmus did a study on this. 60% of people that see. No, I'm sorry, 37% of people that see your name in their inbox never open your email, but then go to your website based on the relationship with you and that email. So think about the amount of times you've been in your inbox, you've seen a name, and you're like, oh, I forgot. And you don't open it. But you go right to their website to catch the podcast or to buy the product or to write.

Yep.

It's not about selling. It's about understanding that relationship. Those are neural pathways and triggers. So that context will help me answer this question. Because what happens in that email, as Matt said, is, like, how they feel in that first email dictates the success of the next emails. You set the context of the relationship with that first email. And so I always use a first date analogy. If I ask you guys to go on a date with me and you say yes, and I disappear, you don't know where to meet me and when, and it never happens. So from that point forward, every time I try to reach out to you, you don't respond. So if I want you guys to meet me on a first date, I'm like, yeah, let's do it here at this time at this restaurant, I'll be dressed like this. And all of a sudden you go looking for it. So on your thank you page, what time, where and why?

Better down there, folks.

And so when we look at it, the two most wasted pieces of real estate on the Internet are thank you pages.

And transactional emails. And I'm just going to talk about thank you pages. When you promise somebody something and they say yes and they opt in a millisecond later, you have the option to blow their mind. And what do we leave it to? Thanks. Check your inbox.

It'll come in five minutes.

Talk about letdown. Talk about letdown.

Well, we were even talking to some other email guys episode not too long ago, and they were saying you shouldn't even say the word thanks because then it's like they did something for you. And really, the frame needs to be flipped. You're doing something for them.

Yeah. So you know how I always talk about that first email that says, congrats, you did it?

Yep.

I put a video on that page, say, congrats, you did it. The hard work's over. I want you know you're in the right place and you already have it. Hey, it's in your inbox. But before you get there, I want to give you a surprise. Who doesn't like prizes, right? I'm like Santa Claus. Boom, boom, boom. And I throw them a gift and I let them know what I promised them is in their inbox from this name with this subject line. And in order to succeed, I want you to open the email, click on it, and go to page four.

So when you understand cognitive biases, the zeigarnic effect drives people nuts. They cannot not open it because they need to know what's on page four. But if I tell them that all I want you to do is get started today and just take a minute when you open the PDF to go to page four of that one thing on page four will transform the way that you do X in your business today. And I mean it. And I make sure it's there. It has to be ethical. But now you think about it and you're like, oh, the journey started on the opt in page, so I might as well give them the next step on the thank you page. And how do I build a bridge between the thank you page and their inbox? Well, this isn't where's Waldo? Just tell them where Waldo is.

Don't make them work. Or.

And so like, when I look at leadership, right, There's a. There's a Brazilian Jiu jitsu teaches this better than anything, right? So if you're a practitioner, you'll understand this, right? And I did this as an event and this is the best way to visualize email for me. Okay? So I had my mastermind together. I had 50 people in a room and I have a. I have two Brazilians who black belt instructors in my mastermind, right? So I knew this would work without even telling them. And so I stood in the front of the room, right? And my whole room's in a U, right? So it's like a 40 foot U. And I threw a water bottle like 30ft. I bottle flipped it and actually landed. Trade up. It was money.

And I was like, okay, who here's a leader? Like, I asked my whole group and I was totally setting him up, right? And everyone's like, I am I. And my. And I love him to pieces. I won't put his name on this, but I love him to pieces. And he's like one of the best high ticket closers in the world. Like, I've watched him close $500,000 deals on a 15 minute phone call. It's mind blowing. And so like, he really is good. And I knew. And he was the first one. I was like, cool. So he's sitting in his chair and I was like, get me to the water bottle. And I closed my eyes, right? And the water bottle is 30ft in front of me. What do you think the first thing he said is?

Walk straight.

Yeah. So I just kept walking into the table.

Oh, no.

And then. And then he's like, take one step. So I took a one inch step. And then he's like, get down. So I jumped on the floor, like on my belly. And then he was like, stand up. And like I put my legs there, but step my hands on the ground. And like I did this for five minutes.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And eventually he got to getting me somewhat close, but I couldn't get the bottle. With his directions following him to a tee.

Yeah. The clarity is really the piece there.

Like, you know, here's the kicker. So then I was like, who else is a leader? And everyone's like, oh. And both Brazilian Jiu jitsu guys knew what I was doing because they teach this. And Igor's like, I am. And so I went back to the spot. I closed my eyes like, Igor, get me to the water bottle. It's silent for 10 seconds. He gets up out of his chair, comes and grabs me by the wrist, walks me over to it and puts my hand on the bottle.

That's how you do email marketing.

I love that. That is so smart.

And it's really true. But our default is to go to. Logic. Our default is to go to. And I was like, yeah, but what would it look like if I literally just had their hand? It's like, oh, hit enter. We told them to do that, remember? We told them to enter their email. We told them to hit enter, right? So now that we have their hand, they hit the thank you page. What do they need to do next? Hey, I need you to feel this. Understand this. Hey, go to your inbox. Hey, look for this, look for this, look for this. Because here's what I will tell you. If you do this and they don't make it, they weren't ready to be your customer. It doesn't mean there's not a place for them. But you're going to tell me that if somebody opts in for something for free and they can't follow the details, they're going to pay you money and then follow the details. Because people taught you a myth that when people invest in something, it means more. Then tell me why people are hoarders and they pay for coaching they never use and they pay for trainers and gym memberships they don't go to.

Good point.

People pay for access and accountability. And so when you think about congruent, and I only teach this to my private clients, you're killing me today.

Love you.

When, when you think about only halfway.

Right now too just.

I know when I say congruency, but when I say congruency, you'll hear me say a congruent customer journey. Everyone's like, oh, that's the thing. I was like, congruent also is delivering the experience on every touch point before they pay. So it matches the experience you deliver when they pay.

It just seems like there's just some blind spot for most people is right after the opt in or right after the pay button, everything goes to just a. Just a void.

Well, I think so many people are hyper focused on that list growth element that they're not really that focused on what the customer is experiencing afterwards.

Right.

Well, and most of it comes from a lack of awareness of their or your company or your products or your services, ability to deliver on what was promised. Because you kind of get to sell it and ship it, and you're like, oh, it didn't work. And then who do they blame?

Name me $1 billion company that blames the customer and it doesn't work. Name me $100 million company that blames the customer. Doesn't work. No. There's a reason they're at that level, because when it doesn't work, they look at what was missing from us.

But what's taught is how to get rich quick, how to do it here. But when most people get stuck, it's never on acquisition. It's on delivery and retention.

And delivery and retention actually requires the ability to be grounded enough to get feedback.

And most of the time, we become entrepreneurs. Like, ready for some life lessons here? We become entrepreneurs because we're trying to prove something, and we fight how hard it is. Then when it gets easy, we make it hard again. So we have some sort of value in pushing harder.

Yeah.

And so then when you break this down and you really, really look at this and you understand this, how do I get people to open their inbo? I make it so they can't not open their inbox, right? So, like, when we think about algorithms, we think about attention. Everybody focuses and complains about the algorithm, right? And I was like, well, what would it look like if when somebody woke up in the morning, the first thing they did was open their phone and find you? What would that look like? And they're like, I don't know. I'm like, well, that's how I built my Facebook page to a half a million people when the algorithm broke. That's how I get 95% of email open rates. Because I ask myself, before I write this email, before I design this sequence, before I write this fulfillment sequence, what would I have to put in here so that every single time they opened it, they felt good, Positive momentum, seen, heard, respected, and held accountable. Because you guys know I'm a tough lover, right? Like, I am not easy on people, right?

And they come seek that structure. So when I'm not there, I get 50 emails saying, why aren't you in my inbox? So we don't tend to ask the right questions. It's like, what do I do to get them to open my email? And I was like, well, first, that's about you not about them.

What would they need to have to search for your email every day?

And then what might that look like?

And so when we think about like design thinking, if you're into thinking processes, design thinking is the biggest way to break down this into a feasible way. We'll tend to be like, what do we do? Design thinking says, get rid of that and get what might we do?

Because can we do is your current level of thinking might creates this curiosity and this freedom mind. And it's like, what might it look like? And so people will be like, well, email. No, no, I have to write these long emails. I have to write these long emails, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, says who? I was like, do you write three paragraph text every time you text your friends? Like, no. And I was like, I bet you if I mimicked your texting patterns, I'd make your email crush. And someone's like, no. I'm like, are you one of those annoying ones that you'll text me seven bubbles before I can respond? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, watch this. I was like, send each one of those to seven emails with an incomplete thought. And they're like, oh. And it worked. I was like, because that's how you communicate, but that's also how you communicate on social, on your videos, on your podcast. And that's what attracted your audience. So try it.

So tough, huh? Like it's. Yeah, people get stuck in these frameworks and these what? These models that they're helpful, but they're kind of guiding posts, I feel like. But yeah, you got to take, take what works and what might work in this scenario. What might work from, I guess your bag of frameworks. But then cherry pick what works, when and where and why.

Like they're tools, right? Frameworks are tools. Principles are tools. Like tactics are tools. They're not the solution. Like, you can't build a house with a hammer. Like, eventually you'll need a saw, right? But like, when you look at all of those, you can grab the right tool to follow the blueprint. So you have to design the blueprint. Duration, direction, right? Let me just tie this all together for everybody real quick. Duration, direction, that's your blueprint. What tools do I have? And then if that's the house that I'm building, how do I get them from I don't have their email to actually sitting at the dinner table and having dinner and you move it backwards to getting them in. And like, this is why I spend so much time in my email stuff, teaching People, it's like this is the container, right? But context matters. There's you know, NLP stuff that you already know how to do. If you're listening to this just neuro linguistic probing, there's really simple ways to do this. What you put in the content, how you keep people accountable, how you automate this, what that content should be. Because it's not like most people think it is, right? Like really what it is, is email is, and I say this again, it is the blood in the body that delivers what is needed in the moment. It could be a white blood cell, could be a red blood cell, could be a protein, could be a nutrient. And it changes based on what's trying to be accomplished. Because when I'm running and working out, my blood is delivering more oxygen to my muscles, right? When I'm in an ice bath, it's delivering more blood to my vital organs. And it depends on the external need. And so that's what you have to look at this for. When we think about email and really my biggest problem with it, like if I could leave anybody. If you're listening to this here, I'm going to program your brain right now. Email is easy, email is easy, email is easy. What gets stuck is people like, email's hard, email's hard. So we don't send one. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because you're just further disconnecting yourself from the people who pay your bills.

Right? And then we're like, oh, they don't buy. I'm like, why would they? Oh, they're disappearing. I'm like, they have to. Well, I need to make more money. And I was like, well don't go adopt any more children till you can feed the ones that you have.

Right?

And I heard, I think it was Justin Goff who said this. Justin Goff's an amazing direct response copywriter. But there's this analogy with email and you said this, Matt. Everyone's like, how do I get more leads? How do I get more leads? How do I get more leads? Wrong question.

Why aren't more leads coming on their own? Why isn't my offer good enough that a thousand more people find me? What might it look like.

To have it organically? Get a thousand buyers a day, right? Because we talk about this in E commerce. We talk about this with services and products. Everyone's like, oh, I got a hundred buyers a day, I need a thousand. What do they do? They throw more money at it. It Justin said this question the best. He's like, yeah, if your Offer is that good people we begging to promote it.

Right?

So what might it look like and what might be missing? Because the level of thinking and what you designed to get to a hundred opt ins a day is not going to get you to a thousand. Right? Because what you solve for were the ones that wanted the quick hit and the dopamine. But now you have people that are further away, not ready to go. What would that journey look like? What would happen on the front? What would I need to do? What would those emails need to look like? How would they bring their friends it? How would I create accountability? And what we tend to focus on is we try to get more people to feed something that actually is showing us that it's incomplete. And so I would say 9 out of 10 times the answer to scaling businesses and entrepreneurs. I help everybody. That's easy for me, lies on the back, not the front.

Yeah, well, that's actually a sort of good segue into like the next question I wanted to ask, which is, you know, at what point are we sort of monetizing this list? Because, you know, I think a lot of people are listening, going, okay, if I have like a 30 day challenge and every day I'm just giving them the one piece that they need to, you know, get a little bit further through this 30 day challenge, at what point am I turning these leads into income for me?

Yep, I love it, I love it. And I have a couple analogies here. I gave one earlier on a podcast for the first time and it works so well. So like, the thing is, is like, let's say we have to understand the customer, right? So let's say we're selling, you know, how to scale your business with email marketing, right? For them to give me their email means that at some point they were interested in scaling their business with email marketing, right? So for me, it's the equivalent of somebody being like, you know, like, what's my dream car? They're like, my dream car is a 5 Series BMW, right? And they might have it on their vision board, right? And so what most people will do is be like, oh, it's a BMW and they don't have the money yet, right? Be like, no, no, do it now, finance it now. Like get a payment plan now, right? And they go for it right now. And then what ends up happening is the person gets more frustrated because like, I can't afford it. I can't afford it. I told you I can't afford it yet. I want it. I can't afford it. That's what most Internet marketers do. What I do is I drop it off at your house for a week, and I let you drive it on me. I'm like, hey, drive it just on me. I just want you to know what it feels like. I want to make sure you know it's your dream car. And I was like, I'm just loaning it to you. It's my personal one. Like, go drive it. And they're like, cool. And I was like, give it back to me. Watch how fast they make the revenue if it's what they wanted. Right. It's the. No different than walking through a shopping mall 20 years ago. Why do they give out teriyaki chicken? Because they want you to eat it for free? No. They're getting rid of the only objection that gets in your way that you convince yourself why you shouldn't buy because you won't like what it tastes like or you don't want to wait in line. So they give you a taste. Once you taste it, you're in. And they're like, oh. And you're like, oh, I don't have time. Like, no, we have it ready. Right. That gap between I can't and it's possible gets closed. And so when we think about email, we think about customer journeys, we think about products. Why do free trials work so well when done correctly? Because they get to taste it. Why do samples work when done so well? Because they get to experience it.

Right.

And so once you get a taste of it, it shifts your thinking because you had an experience, not a thought.

I would also add that it probably takes. Well, it definitely takes a decision away from their having it. You just took something off of their plate for them. That analogy of walking through the mall, it's like, I don't know what we're gonna eat. Is it gonna be the freaking corn dog place over here? Is it the pizza? Oh, no. This guy's got teriyaki chicken in my face right here. It's free. Oh, good. All right. Boom. Done.

It's. It's game over. Right? So what we have to remember is that human beings want to be led. People don't pay for the best products. They pay for access and accountability. And this is cheesy. But if information was the secret, everybody be rich, happy, and in shape.

Right?

Right.

More information leads to stress, anxiety. I would say. Yeah. Overload a lot of unopened emails.

And if it was the product, then people would leave the products they complain about. But how many times have you heard people complain about Androids and never leave. And Apple and never leave.

Mm.

It's the relationship. It's that container that's built. And so this is me answering the sale email in a very indirect way that matters to make it effective. Right. And so what most people will do is they'll be like, give me your email. I opted in. Hey, by the way, you're missing something. Give me your credit card. You'll have this, you'll have this, you'll have this. I'm a choose your own adventure type of person. Because when was the last time you went from, oh, I met them to they're my best friend and best man in one day. Oop, I met them to they're my business partner. One hour. There has to be a container for an experience. Yeah.

Joe and I are the exception.

Exactly.

I mean, we're already in the exception.

We guys hung out, but then it was there. But we had contacts, we had a warm introduction, then we were there. And then it got deeper, and I was like, hey, can I donate a 15k day to you guys? Yeah. I'm like, let's go, let's go, let's go. Right? And it gets there, and it gets there, and it gets there. Right. But for me to have met you and then us to hang out on the podcast because I met. Come to my house. I'm going to do it. And you're like, what? Like, it might. You might have said yes because it was there, but it still just didn't feel right. And then it wouldn't have been effective because it wouldn't have been receptive, and then it wouldn't have been implemented, and then it would have looked bad on me, and you would have been like, this guy's a kook.

You got to give some prep. You got to warm it up. You got to do all this stuff. So when you think about selling, the reason most people lose is they go right for the clothes. But what you have to remember is when you go for the close, you're convincing somebody to buy. So you're fighting reactants, you're fighting objections. But when you create a container that's like a magnet for them to come in, and then you just put some containers on it. They all come in when they're ready, and they never leave. And so instead of everybody buys on day one, some buy on day three and day seven and day 20 and day 40 and day 50, depending on where they are in the journey, but you create a container to do it. So in the example earlier, if you want to sell Your programs, you want to sell your programs. Duration, direction, you're helping Somebody lose five pounds in 30 days. You can write those emails. You can have a super signature on the bottom number one that says, and by the way, I realize not everybody wants to do this alone. If you want to jump on a call with me and my team and we'll just do this for you, tell your macros, tell you what to eat and hold you accountable, click here to schedule a call. That's 30 touch points of selling and 30 emails. And you're just waiting for each person to get on the call when they're ready, not when you tell them that you're ready. And so you end up having this breadcrumb trail, right? And this is the definition of a quote unquote funnel is the longer somebody stays in your ecosystem and the deeper they get, the more narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow it gets until they end up at your door.

This is it. And so then if you have that passive, right, so when I send emails, I send value based emails. And then when they go to a blog, they're value based blog. But what's on every blog? Best product to buy, best opt in and other content to look at, right? It's choose your own adventure, choose your own adventure.

Signatures everywhere.

As long as somebody has a complete experience, you can sell. So if not 30 day sequence, I deliver the result. The ones that are like me, type A's like us, I give it to me, already removed themselves and paid. Those are the easy ones. They're the easiest customers to get. They're the 10 a day that you're guaranteed to get. But your business isn't built with the 10 a day or the 5% that convert off the top. It's the 95% that need a home created so they can all convert. And so then when they have this complete experience at the end of it, you're left with one of two people. One, they achieved the result and then you sell to them and they're like, I realized I never needed you. Which they wouldn't have been your customer in the first place. So they go tell everybody about you. The same person who completed it was like, hey, I want more of this. Thanks for the sales email I'm going to buy. Or the person who completed none of it, who then sees the email and is like, I need to buy that. Completion of a journey is actually the best way to sell.

Yeah, we're using the super signature and everything now and it's increasing our revenue across the board and got to give Credit to Dean Jackson as well for that.

Dean invented it.

Yeah, the super signature thing is one of like the sort of brain dead, dumbest things that we weren't doing, right? So dumb and simple. Yeah, well, like I feel stupid for not doing it earlier, right. So basically the way we've shifted our broadcast emails is we stopped focusing on trying to promote anything and just we'd write emails about like, hey, here's a valuable lesson that we think you'll enjoy with almost no calls to action in the email other than that super signature at the bottom. And that has been more effective than us putting promotions in front of people.

Yep. Yeah. And so I, so I'm saying, so for all you listening to this right now, what I want to remember is, so my goal for everybody listen, this is to blow up your paradigm when it comes to email, right? Like when we get into this, like Joe and Matt, you guys have experienced like what this looks like from like a tactical strategy point, right? And it's really important that everybody listening to this, that you understand there's a big picture here and I'm not doing this to scare you, but, but if you do parts of these without the picture, they become ineffective because there's parts of the machine, quote unquote, that are required. So I want you to think about this in your business. So like with a super signature, it's really important to remember my super signatures, especially the one I gave you guys, are very intentional. And so what my brain is thinking about, right? One of the things that I teach is the four types of customer journeys, right? There's only ever four customer journeys that can take place in your world. Somebody's ready to buy, learn more, opt in or leave, right? And so when I think about emails, if I'm sending these value based emails and I'm delivering on a promise they already opted in and I'm helping them with this value achieve what was promised, right? If they're ready to buy, well, there's a link in the super signature. If they leave or they're not interested anymore, I give them like a group to go into, right? So what I'm doing is I ask myself how do I plug all the holes in the boat, right? Like how do I put a band aid on all the little scabs that just keep bleeding and keep bleeding to keep the blood inside and the email going. So what I'm always asking myself is where might somebody leave? Where might somebody leave, right? Because what people tend to focus on so much is just the people that buy. How do I get more people to buy. I was like, but that's why you lose the game, because then you spend a hundred percent of your time trying to get a hundred more people to convert five of them when you have 95 people waiting to be converted.

If.

You build the container in the journey. And so I've seen this where I've seen like nine part super signatures and 10 part. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. They email. The purpose of the email is to meet the core denominator where they are and take them where they want to go. The super signature is there to plug the leaks. That's it. And so the question would be, like, if the content wasn't there or maybe they missed a day or something was missing, what would it be like, oh, maybe it's schedule a call of my team. Maybe it's make sure they're in the Facebook group. Maybe it's make sure they're listening to the podcast. Or maybe it's an episode related to the topic to go deeper. Right. It's. It's this ancestral thing where you want to keep them in the world and not let them leave so that you can deliver on what was promised over an expanded period of time.

Yeah, yeah. Right now I want, I want to ask, where do the. Where do the broadcast emails fit into the whole mix? So, you know, every once in a while we have an affiliate product that we want to promote, or, you know, we've partnered with somebody and there's a product that, you know, we've sort of agreed we'd do a promotion around or something like that, and we'll do broadcast emails. Like, how would you suggest us fitting that kind of stuff into the system? And like, how should we. How should the messaging look? So it feels congruent with everything we've done up to this point?

Yep. I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. So, to fully answer this question, but we'll talk about my email course after. But the depth of this would take an hour to explain, which I do. But overview is going to make a lot of sense here. Right. So the way that I look at it is the first thing to understand as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, most of us don't need to send broadcast emails. Like, they account for like, 0.1% of what needs to be sent. Everything else that we do is evergreen. Everything. Right. And so with some intentionality, you understand when you build this world, the eternal flame method. Right. That's what I teach. When you build the Body that works in conjunction. There are a couple times you get to take a vitamin, right? That's what I would call or consider a broadcast message, right? Or I call it the eternal flame. The fire is going. And I consider a broadcast like, oh, I need to add a log. Oh, I need to add a log to the fire, right? That's how I kind of look at it. And so the way that I design these things is I understand the journey, right? And so the one important thing here, so. So the things I want everybody to take away, number one, your current paradigm of email marketing just got blown up. Welcome to an atomic bomb on how email is done. You're welcome. Number two, email is easy. Email is easy. Number three, you have to protect the journey. You have to protect the journey. And so when you have somebody in a journey, you have to keep them in the journey. You have to protect them, right? So if you have a hundred people a day signing up for like a lead magnet takes 14 days. They don't get anything else but that delivery. You do not get to distract them from their goal. But when they get out of that, they fall into your world. They're in your ecosystem and you have to have your strategy for email. Now, I teach this on how to automate 99% of your email. Like, literally outside of Christmas holidays, podcast drops or promos, like, everything else is automated. And I mean everything. And so when you understand a broadcast, what you now have to think about is what is the relationship between a broadcast email and my automated emails for my subscribers, right? So of course, we're only sending a broadcast because we want to enhance their journey or take them on a different journey or get them somewhere. So the way that I design this is when you are not being suppressed inside of a container, a duration or direction, you're open. And so I don't send emails typically every day in those automations, I'll leave a day or two open and then I will make sure that I understand that the only time I can ever send broadcasts or when I have one of those opening days and it's serving a purpose to get somebody back into something or get them into a promo or doing a sales promo, because it's going to take them on a journey. But the important thing about a broadcast is a broadcast. Emails designed should almost be always to get them back into a duration or a direction.

So you have some kind of triggered.

Sequence or so you have something on the other side of it, right? Like one email will never work, ever. It's like literally like running by somebody in a mall and be like, hey, give me your phone number. How are you? How can I tell you? No, like you got to give it some hey, right? And then you like get closer and you go deeper, like you got to converse with it. And I see this mistake a lot. Like, there is no way, any way, shape or form that I would ever tell anybody to look at your big list. Whether you have 10,000, 100,000, or some of the lists that I've managed, like 5 million people and think that one broadcast email sent out to all of them like a shotgun is going to have a positive effect on the, on the business. It's going to have a short term positive effect on the top line, almost guaranteed a negative long term effect on the bottom line.

Because nowhere I have somebody that saw it. And of course we get that same 10%, 5%, they're like, yeah, that's me. I was like, but what about all the other 90% that you just opened a loop and created dissonance with that are now incomplete and have a new cognitive bias where they can't read your emails because that's unresolved. And so you have to be very, very, very intentional about broadcast emails. And so I can think of maybe one out of 50 scenarios where I ever send a broadcast to an entire list. Every other broadcast is segmented. Like I'm sending it to a part of the list or a subset of the list for a specific reason to get them into a journey or take them somewhere else. So they do belong. But they are such a minimal part, a minimal part of the overall strategy depending on your email goals, because what ends up happening is that they're already in your ecosystem. And what most people miss about email is when you have a healthy email relationship, when you understand that is the backbone of the bloodline through your entire business, every single boat rises with it. Social media engagement goes up, podcast engagement goes up, Paid media engagement goes up, ROAS goes up because you have this compounding effect. And so broadcasts become even less important because you have them in all these different places. And so you can do things a little bit differently to where you're not relied on. Oh, I have to send this affiliate promo to my whole list. Or boom. And it's like, what segment of the list would take the minimum amount of content or an email to get them to this new promised land? And so like, even when I send broadcasts, my normal broadcast is to get them into a three part sequence or a two part sequence to deliver the message. Understanding that over time is better. And we're surrounded by this. So you look at Jeff Walker's plf, you look at, you know, slow drip launches, you look at all of it. None of them are ever like, sell. No, it's like, hey, warm them up, get them to understand the belief, Meet them where they are, break down their belief, give them social proof, make an ask. Right. And so I keep that kind of same thing inside when it comes to broadcast.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like a good example. I think I actually, I might have brought this up last time we were chatting, but I'll bring it up again. So Andre Chaperone, right?

Yeah.

When I was. When I was working for a company called Learn to Blog, we. We were actually promoting samcart at the time, and there was a launch going on, and the top two affiliates were me and Andre. Andre was number one. I was number two. Andre beat me by like 4x or something like that. And when, in part of the sort of bonus of doing this affiliate launches, we all did a big mastermind in Baltimore and we all got together, and so I got to go hang out with Andre and spend the day with him and talk to him and a bunch of other marketers as well. And I asked Andre, I'm like, how many people were you mailing? And he was like, I think maybe 1200. Maybe. And I'm like, I mailed this promo to 78,000 people. You mail it to 1200 and you 4x my sales. How the hell did you do that? And he essentially said, well, my list is bigger than 1200. I basically put out an email that put out feelers for wants more of this kind of information. And only the people that responded to that email got the rest of the emails for this promotion.

Yep. Yep. There's no accidental success when it comes to email marketing. It's all intentional. Right? Like, there was a supplement company. So, like, what I teach in the light, my eternal flame, in the eternal flame method, I took it. A supplement company, they had a. An email list of 14,000 people. I covered this in my webinar. They had an email list of 14,000 people, and they were generating $650,000 a month. Everyone's like. I was like, who would want that? Everyone's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 90 days later, that same email list of 14,000 people generated an additional 2.5 million.

Nothing on the front, all in the back. And it was. It was maybe 60% of just what I taught on this podcast for free.

That is George, how the heck can people go to that Webinar, at least join the program if they're.

Yeah. So there's, there's two of you listening to this right now. There you're like, I don't care what it is, what it takes, I'm in those people. You just go to lightmyeternalflame.com it goes right to the order form, it lays down everything. And it's, oh, I do upsells too. But watch how this is done ethically. The program's 1497 for right now, and by the time this comes out, it should still be because we, we last minute did this. It's 1497 bucks, I think it's three different modules. The foundation, like the paradigm, then the actual implementation, then the scale strategy on the back end, like the automations of all of it. And we have templates and we do all of this. And I mean, I break down everything, all the examples, all of it. And then on you get to the thank you page, you'll see what an ethical upsell looks like because you can't even get to until you've already bought and it's a right fit for you. And so then we offer like, if you want support with my team, there's a link to get on a call to make sure it's the right fit. And then we'll help you implement all of this. So that goes to the order form. It's lightmyeternalflame.com and then if you're like, okay, I don't want this. This guy's bat crap crazy because I forgot if I can swear on your podcast or not, you're fine. And I just want to go. I've been really good today.

You have.

I know. And I just want to go to the webinar. It's the EternalFlame method.com so eternal, not internal. That goes right to the webinar registration page. And I actually teach that webinar live every single week.

And because I love it, I absolutely love it. But I just want everybody to understand, like, I'm gonna say this again, I'm gonna say this again, I'm gonna say this again. Pin it on your forehead, tattooed on your hand. I don't care. Whatever you look at the most. Email is easy. Email is easy. And you need to understand that because if you don't email, you are literally sucking the blood out of your body and expecting it to work. You're trying to run a race car in an empty tank. It is the biggest secret when it comes to success of business. And it's also the biggest culprit of failure that takes too long to be realized before it can be fixed. Because the realization of not emailing and not touch pointing and those relationships deteriorating take time to be realized. And so by the time all those subscriptions are getting canceled or people aren't buying or they're not recommending, it becomes too big of a problem to fight and then you have to start over again. And so I say this because it's not talked about enough. It's like, oh, buy my traffic. I'm like, stop competing with the algorithm monster when you don't have to, right? Like, this is not the algorithm monster. And so I want everybody to understand because, like, the three beliefs that I really focus on a lot with this is that email is easy. Like, email is genuinely, genuinely, genuinely easy. The big one is, and this is my favorite one, I cover this a lot. I can't hear one more time. My email's worth a dollar an email a month.

It makes me want to shove a pen in my eyeball.

What do you say to that?

Other than, well, I broke down a case, so I had to look because this came up, it came up in a Q and A a couple weeks ago, right, Doing a Q and A about this. And someone's like, yeah, but somebody said my email is worth a dollar an email a month. And I was like, okay, you want that? And they're like, yeah, cool. I'm like, have a fun business. I went and grabbed one of my case studies, I broke it down.

One of them got to $178 an email a month on the same list, right? And so like, when you think about this, I think one of the biggest things in all of this is the intentionality that goes into it. Like, the questions you asked Matt are mind blowingly powerful for everybody. And I hope everybody understands the depth of those answers. Like, everything that you need is in there when you think about it. But what you'll catch is that at every point, what we're asking ourselves is like, what might this look like for the customer? And what might this feel like if it was easy, what's the one thing I can give them? What's the one next step? How can I make this a journey versus like a punch in the face, right? So somebody. I told the analogy to it. Everybody's trying to building these drive throughs to create a magical experience. At some point you have to realize you can only create a magical experience inside of a restaurant. Like to have it the chef come out to the table, the Amuse, bouche. The taste, the experience, the laughter, right? Like I think the closest thing is how well Chick Fil a does their drive thru. But even then I'm still unfilled when I get to the back end of it, right?

Like that's right, the back end.

And so like that's, that's really what it is. Like email, email, email, email, email. And when we talked on the first podcast about Customer Journey, when you understand that whole echelon of Customer Journey now you understand how it all fits in and what that keel in the water is like. This is the thing that over and I read all of your guys emails and I love them and I'm watching them and you know, doing it. But it's really, really, really powerful when you aren't competing anymore, when you're relating to people where it's not. And people know like there are a lot of people on my email list and they know I'm not the only one. They're not the only one getting into it. But when they respond it feels like they're the only one. They're like, oh, this is it, this is it, this is it, this is it. When you watch that carry over, like I have a bunch of people with pitchforks that will defend my honor past my death on social media just because I sent him an email today. But what that realizes into and what that turns into is massive amounts of opportunity. And like I'll give everybody a tangible exam because people think I'm crazy. People think I'm crazy. Like I gave everybody here a massive amount of gift in your business because when you implement this, you come to me for more and you come into the program, we're going to skyrocket it, but you get to win first. I close more six figure consulting deals from email than I do anything else. And it's always the same. I give a keynote.

I answer questions. At the end of the keynote, they come ask me to tell me their business is broken. I realize I can fix most of it in 20 minutes with some information. I was like, take notes, hit record on your phone, give me your email and I'll answer it. And then I'll email them like three training videos, right? And I'm like, hit me up when you're done. And then this is what I do. As soon as I send that email, I immediately write three more emails and I pre schedule them 30 days, 60 days and 90 days into the future with a subject line. Hey, just checking in on you. Hey, how's it going? And I do it all in the first moment and then every single time. And I mean, most of the time I met with around like day 90 or right after that, within time. Hey, we're ready. Where can We Wire you6 figures? We need you to come to the office.

Yeah.

Hey, where can we pay you? Hey, I don't actually need you, but I just wanted to thank you. We generated a million dollars in revenue. Can we send you a $30,000 check? Right. Like, you have to remember that this is a long game and I don't want to be a walking tweetable, but cynic says it the best. Like, this is the infinite game, but you cannot create like infinite revenue streams by playing a finite game on the front because you are burning the bridges with the people that determine if they ever pay you again. No robots, no algorithms, and nothing of my awareness automates somebody's credit card going into your system. That is an emotional relationship with a human being that is building a feeling with you. And that feeling determines if they ever give it to you again. And that determines if they give it to you, their friends give it to you, their business partners give it to you, or their team gives it to you. And the one place that I guarantee you that you can control that relationship for the positive is email. Every single time.

Perfect.

Damn, that's powerful.

I mean, there is so many other rabbit holes we could go down, but I have a feeling this isn't your last time on this podcast.

I feel like he already gave about more than half of his training that he charges.

Yeah, no, no, there's more in this. And I will tell everybody there's depth here. Right. The biggest thing for me here is like, I don't want to. And let me just pre qualify if you are coming to look more money, you're a scammer. It's like, just get the F out of my life. Like, just go take this. Go burn bridges. End up in prison, broke, and somewhere else where somebody is coming to save you. Like this. This matters, right? Like this really, really matters. And. And the biggest challenge for me with entrepreneurs is everybody is running around saying, like, I want to build a legacy business. I want to build the legacy business. But they model transactional businesses, study the greats, study the businesses that have been here for hundreds of years, that have been here for 50 years and 60 years and 70 years, and you'll be hard pressed to find one of them that got to where they are by transacting on the front. Every one of them has played the long game. Like, if you haven't figured out that Elon knew that the roof tiles were coming and the battery was coming before it and the cars were coming before that. And the roadster was the first evolution before it ever launched. Take a step back and look. It was all part of a big vision to get. There's a very long game. I mean, they were a month away from bankruptcy when they got into the production of why. Yeah, very different game now. Right. And so when you understand this, we need to have patience and if we ask the right questions and instead of going to like, how do I get more to feed into a leaky bucket? Start with what might it look like to plug the bucket? And so for all of you listening to this or watching this, wherever this is, step number one is just changing the way that you look at it. Just understanding email is easy. Email is easy. Every single time. Email is easy. And when you get that lens, you get into the next part. And I shared gold at the beginning of this. And so that's the container. Then you get into the content, the escalations, the automations of all of it. But a lot of you listening to this can go from like, my email's been hard to my emails easy and fully implemented. And like, literally sitting back and just watching it work for you in like 30 days.

You're playing the long game, but really you can set it up so quick. It's easily set up, you know, with this customer journey and just let that thing develop. But just know you're playing the long game if you set that up.

Yeah. And then the other one that I will say, because if, if I'll just save you the webinar. But it's really powerful. But the other one is your email list is not dead. Your email list is not dead. And it was the example I gave to you guys earlier. They're the ones that you don't open that, but you won't unsubscribe from them. Those are waiting. So I always give the sandlot analogy. Imagine the kid that pretends to drown, so she comes and gives you cpr. Like, that's all that your email list needs. It just needs a little bit of resuscitation, right? Like, don't, don't go like throwing it out with a bathwater. It's like, nope, just give it a moment. Give it what it needs. And so when you understand these things, your email list is not dead. It's just sleepy. Email is easy. And the long game is your email is worth way more than a dollar an email per Month. And it is the backbone and the bloodline for your business. It's a different game that you can play. And most of you listening to this have an edge up. Because what most people do is they'll take the tactics and they'll go implement this. They'll get a temporary result with long term pain and then come back again because they don't care enough to get deep. When you take a moment to think about this different, like we did with you, and it's like, oh, what?

What?

That instead of writing an email today, why don't we spend today designing what the future looks like?

Like, dude, there was a total paradigm shift too, like when we went up there. Well, I was first talking with you on the podcast, chatting outside, but that we've been doing email marketing for 12 plus years. And it's like. And then it was one conversation with you seeing on the board and we're like, durr. And you're looking at it right now, still on the board.

I know, I still, I look up, I'm like, oh, I remember that one. I remember that one. Oh, yep, that was the sub sequence and it's there. And so, you know, like, I always want people to feel better than when you got started. But, like, I would challenge everybody. Like, and I will actually challenge you. Either get your ass in so we can just do this with you and just have it be fast forwarded. But no matter what, today, I just challenge you to take some time to think about your email. Like, to give it that space and that intention. Like, we spend so much time on, like, how do we make the best product, how do we make the best supplement? How do we make the best service? But then we never ask ourselves the question, what can I design to guarantee its effectiveness? Like, what would that look like? And that I am telling you, that level of focus and that awareness makes me uncomfortable sharing all of this here, which means I'm doing my job. And what I teach is the secret. It's always going to be the secret. And I challenge every one of you to pay attention to this.

Well, on that note, I think that's a pretty good stopping point.

I would say so.

Yeah, that was a good workout. I'm drenched in sweat, everybody.

I actually feel energized. I was a little sleepy before this, as I said. And dude, I am like jacked up. I'm serious. Like, I feel amazing. Thank you.

Sweat email. I just. Sweat email.

Can you shout out those, those two URLs? I think it was lightmyenternalflame.com.

And so for those of you ready to get your booty in, which I highly recommend you doing, just go now. Cause email's easy, it's just sleepy. And it's worth way more than a dollar a month. You're welcome. I just did the whole pitch for you get in that lightmyeternalflame.com and it's eternal, right? Because once you light it, you never get to turn it off. Imagine that like your business runs for itself. And then the second one is, if you want to watch my webinar, you want to watch the email training I cover, like how to revive it, shifting the belief of it, how to wake it back up, all of that stuff. And one of my favorite case studies and how I took an email list of 86,000 people that was three weeks away from going out of business and with four emails that took me less than eight minutes to write, generated $100,000 in Reven.

And she was close to she literally.

Going out of business, leaving her house. Her house was getting foreclosed on. She was getting ready to relinquish and let go of three team members. And she was going to close down her 15 year business of serving people. And she was a healer, man.

So just imagine how many more healings.

Four days. Four days. And that was just the start of it. And so I cover that. That's what I teach in the training. So you guys can understand this and get it. And that is at the Eternal flame method dot com.

Bam. Awesome.

Eternal flame method dot com.

Go get it. Go get it, folks. George, I like to know what you're reading. So what are you, what, what book are you obsessing over right now? I feel like you always have something.

I've already added the catalyst to my list.

I read the Catalyst on like a repeat.

Yeah, you said that last time we met.

Literally repeat. It's probably one of the most underutilized tools when it comes to entrepreneurship because it's basically the epitome of marketing done correctly. That's really what it is. So this is a really interesting one. So I'm reading two books. I just started them by Gregory Boyle, Father G. Father Greg. He founded Homeboy Industries and he has single handedly basically changed gang reiteration and doing this. So he has two books. One's called Tattoos of the Heart. I wanted to see the second Tattoos on the Heart. And then the other one is Bark into the Choir. The Power of Radical Kinship.

And I'm going to say this to everybody. If you have not realized that the secret to building a long term business and understanding the power of relationships, community is going to be your secret. And understanding kinship and compassion and how to infuse that into your marketing is the secret. So I read books like this to help figure out how to get more of that inside of what we market.

Those are, those are. I know about homeboy industries and the fact that they. Yeah, they've made some massive changes to the fact that they were. I've heard of tattoos on the heart. Not the other one. I'm going to pick them both up.

Yeah, the bark into the choir is the newer one. It came out in 2017.

Cool.

But, yeah, that guy's a walking testament to, like, what caring and customer journey can do in the world. And so if you take that and you imagine what he did for gang reform and reintegration, can you imagine what it will do for somebody who just needs to lose 10 pounds or just needs to email differently or just needs to coach differently?

That's the secret. Like, that's one of the secrets. So those are the things that I obsessed about. So I just finished re listening to man's search for meaning for like, maybe, I don't know the hundredth time.

I'm on my first read through of.

That one right now, starting it.

It's such a good one. It's such a good one. And so one of the secrets here, and I love that you asked me this, like, when I'm reading, I tend not to go for business books. I tend to go to human books. And then I figure out, like, where that principle or where that viewpoint or where that paradigm could then fit into this customer journey. Where could that fit into email marketing? Where could that fit into paid media? Where could that fit into messaging? And quite frankly, it's why I'm successful.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, my man, we'll let you go. You were already way too gracious. But, you know, we'll do it again.

We're going to get more secrets out of you.

It's all going to help everyone. All right, my man. Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks for everybody listening.

Holy crap.

My brain feels wonderful.

Yeah. No, that was. I think we got way more out of George than we anticipated as well as way more than he anticipated. Giving.

That's a common trend we have with people. George is. Yes. 100%.

Yeah.

The question, though is what is George going to get out of you?

Yes. What are you going to do with this information? Like, you know, the stuff he was talking about was Sort of what he mapped out for us when we did a sort of coaching session with him a few months back, he legit gave.

Us, he gifted us a in person, like basically a half day or full day, whatever. It was coaching, you said it's a 15 grand thing. And it legit was a coaching session that reshaped how we think marketing or email marketing.

And we did that after our first interview with him. And so we decided, you know what, we have got to bring him back on because the last time we kind of looked at it from a 30,000 foot view, we wanted to zoom in because like we knew he's an email guy. Like he gets email better than anybody I've ever talked to. So let's zoom in on his email strategies for an episode and get real tactical with it. And dude, he freaking delivered on that episode. Like that is an episode that I am going to personally refer back to multiple times. And when we finished recording you, Joe like looked at me, he's like, you need to send that to Jacob. You need to send that to Joe Kearns. You need to send that to everyone. Basically everybody that we're working with on our team right now needs to hear this episode.

Well, even, even George was saying, yeah, you got to send it to my team.

Yeah, he's going to put it in.

His members area for paying customers this episode.

He's like, there's stuff that I haven't even taught in there that or stuff that I leave for my hundred thousand, you know, dollar clients.

Yeah.

So you're welcome y'. All. But the bigger question is what are you going to do with this? Like think about that because I mean George is not he. And this was a last minute booking actually as well. And I in, in full transparency. I screwed up on the date at first. So we actually had to move a couple of calls. Thank you George. I love you. And that is the odds on his truth. So he was here for us, for you. And so really think about like even if there's just a single nugget, do something with it and run. And if at all, if you're anything resonated here, go go to those two URLs that George was throwing out there. Either the webinar, just jump straight to the program with him. It's worth it. I mean, I don't think we need to say that any further.

Yeah, it works.

And it works for any business, any size business. It's people. People.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean I sort of, I feel like I shared my biggest takeaways From George, like in the actual episode itself. But you know, if anything, like anything we want to like recap on this one. Like what, what was like something that.

I don't think we can recap the way that he did it.

But I know there was so much, there was so much in there. But like what, what do you feel like from this episode was like, holy shit, that was something new. That wasn't there new in my brain now. That wasn't there before.

I would say the duration and direction actually really helped. Yeah, so that was his first step and I actually. He didn't say this, but I wrote it down. It's. It gives context, it gives really a lot of clarity. Not only for the, the person on the journey going through this and exactly what they're. They know what they're going to get out of this. But it helps us as the email marketers to create a very. There's a clear path now that we get to architect. Yeah, that is fun and is easy because email is easy. Once you understand how everything fits together, it's a blast. I even said this to Joe Kearns who's helping us out with the emails. Joe Kearns and Mike Alvarez always got to give a shout out. This is extremely relevant. So go talk to those guys if you're looking for some hands on help and stuff. I don't know the URL. I know it's magic, something with it, magic with a J. But I don't know their URL. But just Joe Kearns and Mike Alvarez. You'll find them or text us or something, email us. But like I think that duration, which duration and direction. So the duration is obviously time based. Now you have a container of how, you know, you can lead someone to a result and give what they want. Then you're going to build a bunch of trust. And then the other one was, you know, direction. So it's steps and processes and that's similar to how we're building out ours right now where it's a very, you know, it's a three step thing that we're giving them three emails, process, plus some other cool stuff bundled. That's a duration. And then now there's a whole path that you can architect behind that. Everything was laid out in this podcast. That's ridiculous.

Yeah, yeah. I think one of one of my big takeaways, and I don't think he used this wording when we met with him, but it clicked. And if he did, it didn't click then, but it clicked now was that whole concept of when you're writing an email and let's say you only have one minute to tell somebody what's the next best step they can take today? Like taking that to your email. Like, if I only have one minute to convey, like, okay, you're on this journey, what's the one thing you can do today that's gonna take you one step further in the journey and you only have one minute to say it. That's your email concept. And that to me just made, you know, email is easy. Email is easy. Email is easy. That concept right there just made email feel real easy to me.

It's breadcrumbs. Yeah, that's it. And we all overthink it. But yeah, with this framework, with the mantra of email is easy because it is true.

You breaking.

You said tax every day. You know, I just got another. I got a text from George is now, hey, George, thanks. I just looked at my phone. But like we're all sending texts.

Yep.

Emails, text. It's communication with a person. And I mean it's even, even easier than a text probably because there's context.

Yeah.

You know, you created a journey and they have self selected themselves on that journey. So all you're doing is just furthering that journey, furthering them closer to the goal that you want to take them to.

Exactly.

Damn. Cool. All right, we probably. This is a long episode, so. Yeah, I want to listen back to it.

Yeah, we'll keep this outro shorter than normal. Make sure you get the notes. Flowchartgroup.com you can join the Facebook group. When you join the Facebook group, we're also going to send you a link to where you can get the most recent notes. We keep the notes free for the first two weeks from this episode going live. So you got to go sign up for the group and we'll send you the notes. But again, you got a two week window. So flowchartgroup.com to go do that.

Yes. And, and I just want to shout out George's. I mean we are not getting a scent from him, you know, selling his, his training to you if you choose to go there. But lightmyeternalflame.com was to. The offer itself is the offer and then the webinar is the EternalFlame method dot com. Yeah, we will link those in the show notes and in the notes, if you choose to get them at Flowchart group as well, go do it. At least go watch the webinar because I know Matt and I are. We even told George. We're like, send Us the webinar.

We got off this call and bought one of George's courses.

He actually did. Yes.

He literally sent us a link to one of his courses, and Joe and I just bought it right after joining.

After doing this call.

Here, go pay for some coffee for you and your family tomorrow. Yeah, so. And also shout out to our sponsor, Easy Webinar. They are amazing. Absolutely amazing. Very loyal to our show. They've been with us. It's a reason. Because it works and you guys love it. You guys have told us Easy Webinar works and love. And you guys love it. So if you're doing webinars or if you think you're about to do some webinars, that's your tool. There's no other tool that we would recommend because they do it all. So it's getting better all the time. They're learning. They have a team. They're always on top of the trends in tech and all that, so. Easywebinar.com hustle easywebinar.com hustle. Get a fatty discount just for you. Awesome. Hustle and Flowchart peeps. We love y'.

All.

Hey, if there's someone in your life that needs some customer journey or just really just. If you think someone's just pulling their hair out around email, send them this. Send them this. Yeah, they'll thank you.

This is. This is the best conversation I've ever had on email marketing, period.

Yeah.

Industry.

Have a good one, y'. All.

Bye. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address, and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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