Here's Why Branding Is Vital

And at the end of the day too, it's like you're building a brand no matter what. Right. Whether you're consciously deciding methodically this is the brand I want to create or you're not doing any of that, you're still creating a brand.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Hey, welcome back.

Hey. I am back. You were back. We're both here together. Yeah.

Yeah, we're in Hustle and Flowchart Studios doing our thing.

Official. It's registered trademarked.

None of the above.

We shouldn't have said that.

Yeah. So we're back and this episode is going to. We're gonna deep dive into branding.

Yes.

And our thoughts and our experience and what we're learning about branding and the psychology of it.

Yep. We've been real. Like that's been a big focus in our business lately. Is getting like real dialed in with the brand. As you can tell by, you know, the video stu that we're doing and the fact that we're trying to up level the quality and like we're getting a new website designed, which we'll probably talk about a little bit more in this episode. But like we're putting a huge focus on branding and there's some very specific reasons why we're focused on branding right now. Why we feel now is the time to be branding. We also feel like there's some very low hanging fruit ways that people can put some focus on brand. So that's the kind of stuff we're going to cover in this episode.

A lot of thoughts that you probably have in a thought about yourself when it comes to brands and your business and what you're putting out into the world is like a ripple effect.

Yes.

There's. And there's a cool video we'll reference during this whole thing.

A couple videos.

Yeah. A couple few different things we'll share. And of course we want to get the action guides of this episode.

Sure.

Because they're always a lot more coherent than we are. No.

At least takes our ramblings and makes them actually coherent. Thank you, Sue.

Thank you. You are the best. So go get those. They are free. Within two weeks of this episode going live. If you go to flowchartgroup.com not if. When you go to flowchartgroup.com you'll have the opportunity to not only join our Facebook group, but also get the action guides. If you plug in your email address, we will send them to you and you'll get the action guides of this episode. Basically, it's like Cliff Notes.

Yes.

Takeaways. So what else? We have a sponsor.

We do.

Lovely sponsor. And, you know, should give them some light right now, huh?

Yeah, let's talk about them right now.

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You've talked a lot about Ahrefs.

We do a lot of talking about Ahrefs. Yes. For. For years now. And it's a good thing because you hear all the SEO experts come across our podcast. This is the tool they're always talking about. It's Ahrefs. Well, there's something new from Ahrefs and we wanna tell. Matt's gonna tell you about it. Yeah.

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All right. It's like magic, huh? That was cool how we do that. Yeah, we have cool lights now.

We do.

This is all part of our branding here. Yeah, we're still sort of watching this on video. That is. Yeah.

If you are watching. We are kind of experimenting still with the look and the camera quality and the lighting. We actually messed with the lighting today to see if we can get different lighting quality. We've got some rotating color. We're actually sitting in new chairs too. I can actually show the chair.

Look, don't do that. Ew. That's that chair. That's a fancy IKEA chair.

It's a fancy $40 Ikea chair that I actually really like. Like not having the restrictions of the other chair behind me.

We have. We have a beautiful all 33 chairs that Lisa Byer hooked us up with. And we had Bing on the podcast. And he was. He's the founder of All33. We've been using those kind of like we're experimenting in different locations.

We like those chairs. But we felt like when we were recording in this spot, we felt kind of restrained.

That's what we were noticing.

Yeah. We couldn't get as close as we needed to on some of the videos.

We like to cuddle.

Yeah. Like, we actually have a green screen. Should I show them the green screen?

Then we're going to have to screw with the lights. How about this? How about with our fancy video editing that we are doing? You have to go hop over to YouTube to see this SLFLUchart TV. But we bought an Elgato green screen. That's this collapsible one that goes.

Yep.

Yeah, we have, like lights on there and stuff. Let's not get it.

Yeah.

Maybe the video just showed what that looks like. Or maybe we'll make some B roll.

Yeah, we should do that. Yeah. So you'll probably start to see videos of us. I mean, you might have already seen some of them where we're kind of doing tutorials and we're on screen, but like, we're kind of like blended in with the video.

We're in the ether. We're in.

It looks really cool when you do that. And so we've been playing with that a little bit and having some fun. So.

Yeah. Elgato. That's a. Elgato. That's. It's a cool brand. I mean, they're pumping out all sorts of cool gear like this. That's actually fairly. Well, it's very cost effective for what it is. Yeah. Like, I feel like they're just kind of condensing down all the necessary things and making them kind of easy to all work together. Yeah. I mean, new arms for the podcast.

Yeah, We've got the mic arms coming. The. We've got our camera. It actually records in 4K. We're not recording in 4K right now. We'll actually talk about that later in the episode. But it's actually hooked up through a Cam Link 4K, which is also made by Elgato. You know, we've got an Elgato Stream deck over at another desk over there. Like, we're kind of becoming Elgato fanboys for good reason.

Except for the lights. Those ones are a little bit still. They're almost like.

Well, their lights are too much.

Good.

They're just kind of expensive.

Exactly. But that's not the point of this episode. Branding is not all about the equipment that you have. It's probably not at all about the equipment that you have, let's be honest.

No.

Or the lights that are shining behind. But what equipment you do buy, it's good point. So point of kind of talking about Elgato and how much we've been loving them and our Apple Mini, you know, Mac Mini. Yeah. Or our Rode products, like our microphone and Rodecaster Pro. These are all brands and they're all brands that we feel that are part of our podcasting. I do feel like we're creator journey if you think about it like our identity.

Yeah. The point you're making is like the tech doesn't matter for your brand. Like you don't need the best cameras, the best lighting, the best backdrops, the best studio, all that kind of stuff. It doesn't matter. But the tech that you do get is very influenced by the brand. Right. Like right now I feel like there's really three brands that are dominant in our office right now. I would say it's Apple, Elgato and Rode.

Right.

We've got Rode Mics, Rodecaster, we've got Apple, like three or four Apple computers around here. We're both using iPhones. We've got all the Elgato stuff we just talked about. It's like those three brands are very prevalent in this office studio.

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean that's, that's exactly what's happening here. And I think at a deeper level with brands and what we'll be chatting about now in this episode is let's, let's now uncover what's actually happening underneath. I guess more the obvious sides of just buying products that you enjoy.

Yeah.

There's a deeper level thing and there's a video that was sent to us by our buddy and a really good, you know, he's. We're starting to do some biz together. But Angelo Sisco from Hustle Hustle. No, it's not from Hustle.

Hustlin Hippies.

Alpha Hippie, that's hustling hippies, but Alpha Hippie. And you know, he was just on the podcast recently. Check it out. But it was this video from Big Think and this is a YouTube video called How Apple and Nike have branded your brain. And this is your brain on money.

Yeah. And then there was another video that I was watching last night and it's like a 45 minute video and I watched the whole thing start to finish. I was just sucked in. I sent it over to Joe. I think Joe pretty much watched the whole thing.

I think I Will tell you exactly. I watched half.

You watch half?

Yeah.

Most of the points I brought up, you're like, yeah, I remember that part, though. So you've. You've watched like I sped watched. Yeah, you watched a lot of the big chunks. But, like, these two videos, there's, like, a lot of overlap in ideas. And these two videos specifically have led to a lot of discussions between us in the office over the last couple of days. So it's like, that's what we want to talk about.

Well, that video you're referencing is a interview from Khan and Samir, who we've been watching closely. Jacob, our content lead of content. We still have figured out a perfect title for you, Jacob. But, you know, he's been obsessing over Colin and Samir. And if you watch them on YouTube, he has, or they have. They basically talk about the creators, and they. They really talk about the creator economy or that whole thing. And so they're interviewing Mr. Beast. Jimmy Donaldson.

Yeah, Jimmy Donaldson.

Yeah. So Mr. Beast, big, massive YouTuber doing amazing things, and he's doing a lot with his brand that might not be so obvious. So that interview is really cool for a lot of reasons. Like, the editing was freaking awesome.

Yeah, they do a good job with.

Like, that's kind of like where we're trying to take things partially with this podcast, but at the same time, it was cool to understand what one of the leading YouTubers are doing outside of just the obvious YouTube videos he's producing that are getting, you know, millions of views. Tens of millions of views, hundreds of millions of views. But, like, he has this whole thing that's happening that's attached to his brand that's, like, philanthropic. He's got a massive vision. He has Beast Burger.

So what you're saying is he's got a very big why behind it all.

He's got a massive why. So that. Those are the two videos we'll be referencing in this here episode that we'll likely link in the show notes and all that stuff. Yeah. Talk about the why. Because we actually put some structure behind this episode, y'. All. Yeah, we're for your benefit.

We're trying to get more structured. We've listened to some of our other.

Episodes and went, we're punching here in this chair. Like, gotta get used to these chairs.

Yeah. This is a new experience. But yeah. So let's talk specifically why we've been so focused on brand lately. I think from our perspective, the brand is the 8020 of what can move the needle the most in our Business. Right. Like, for so many years, we were focused very much on direct response sort of strategies. We were very focused on, run this Facebook ad. If I'm spending $50 a day and I'm making $70 a day, it's working well. Run these Google Ads. Focus on. Focus on, you know, the email list, all this very, like, direct response. Very much like measurable. When I do this, it's measurable whether or not that thing worked or not. Now, branding is a little bit more ambiguous, right? Like, it's a little bit harder to tell the efforts from. From your brand. But the way we see it is the bigger the brand we can build, the more attention that we can create on us, and then we can essentially sell that attention. Right. Like arbitrage. Yeah. Gary Vaynerchuk, I don't remember these are the exact words, but he spoke at TNC a few years ago, and these words stuck with both of us for a long time. Is that all we're doing is day trading attention.

That's it. Right.

He's day trading attention. So what we're trying to do is we're trying to build as much attention around our brand as possible. Our YouTube channel, our hustle and Flowchart podcast, our email list, our Facebook groups. We're starting to experiment with TikTok. We've thrown around the idea of messing around on Twitch. I don't know if that stuff's gonna happen, but it's all stuff that we're kind of experimenting with right now because the more audience we can grow, the more attention we can get. You can then go and sell that attention to advertisers in a variety of ways.

But, yeah, sponsorships, affiliate type things, relationships, partnerships of any sort. And that's where, yeah, we've realized that there's a lot more to, you know, being disjointed with what you put out into the world. I mean, at least from our journey. Again, this is where we'll obviously relate to a lot during this conversation, is we've developed tons of products, tons of types of content that don't really necessarily connect with each other until we got really intentional about what is the brand? What's the thing that kind of houses all these things? And do these things even make sense?

Yeah.

And how do they connect if they do make sense? Like, how can we kind of create a journey throughout this whole thing? But even besides that, like these two videos mainly, that your Brain on Money video talked about the psychology of branding and it really got into, you know, when you create a brand, or these brands that you purchase, like these Apple products and stuff. We all, we act differently depending on the brands we choose. You know, there's like, different responses happening. We almost, like, treat them like we would our friend, group, or identities attached to these brands. And we started really thinking about this is. And we've been told this many times over, like, with the brand that we put out into the world, there is this flavor, you know, and I think it's, you know, we've. We've polished things up along the way. Like, got a studio, got better microphones, got a better camera, got a little slicker equipment around us here, got a little. Got a time, a clock on the. On the table here, Got a Trevor Hoffman bobblehead. You know, it's all the stuff that really creates a good brand.

Yeah.

But, you know, like, what we thought about is it's not all the things, but it's. Tano's gonna hate me inside joke, Pod, hacker joke is we're. We're not doing all this just to, like, be a totally different type of podcast or anything. It's basically amplifying us.

Yeah. Well.

And the flavor that we've already been putting out there and making sure we're not losing touch of what we've already put out there successfully.

Yeah.

That ripple effect that we want to do.

And at the end of the day, too, it's like you're building a brand no matter what. Right. Whether you're consciously deciding methodically this is the brand I want to create, or you're not doing any of that, you're still creating a brand.

Right.

And I think our mentality has shifted over the last. Let's call it two years that we've realized we're creating this brand and people are seeing us as a brand. Let's be methodical about it. Let's stop just kind of seeing where it takes us and. And, you know, letting people attach their own emotions and thoughts about what our brand is supposed to be, and let's start telling people what we want them to perceive our brand as.

Yeah.

And so I think that's kind of like a key why we're so focused on brand now is like you said, Mars Burden, and I didn't mention him.

But yeah, talk about that because I'm alluding to it a little bit.

Yeah. So we have this buddy, Mars Joe, and him go way back. He's kind of a newer buddy to me, but mar.

And little preference. Like, he. He has done so many launch videos, these massive product launch videos, these live streams For.

Oh, he's been behind, like, all of the biggest launches.

All of them. Yeah. Talking about, like, these are, like, marketing type, business owner launch. Like, you know, like, big product launches where they're launching, like, how to. Well, he did Rich Chef.

The two launches I've worked with him on were for a Dan Kennedy project and for Rich Sheffrin product. So it's like he's working with high level.

Yeah, he's done a lot of massive production. And yeah, he basically told us, because we told him we were gonna start up leveling some stuff. This is before this. This studio came into the picture. But he basically said he was like, just. Just don't lose, you guys. Like, don't get too fancy.

Well, what I was gonna say, too, is that, like, the brand that we had created up until that point was this brand of, like, two normal dudes that are both dads, both family guys who, like, are just kind of low budget, kind of slapping it together.

Right.

Like, we're kind of duct taping this whole business together. And watched our old videos. We were in my office. Joe was in, like, a rocking chair. I was in a desk chair. We had, like, mic arms that were designed for, like, singing, but, like, we were using them so that we could sit anywhere we wanted in the office. It was very.

So we'd stand up and act like we were singing.

Yeah, we would stand up for some, like, a lot of episodes. We were actually standing, pacing around the office while we were talking, like. But that is kind of what our brand became. We weren't doing it intentionally. We're just like, this is what works for us, to make sure we do the content consistently. It was us. But the brand almost became like, the guys who were just kind of like, just figuring out as they go along and they're not polished, but you know what comes out.

Eff it.

And we like that brand image, but we're, like, cool. We know how the perception is now. Now let's refine it.

That's it. Without losing it.

Without losing it.

Yeah. And this was actually. We chatted with Lisa Byer. She's our unofficial pr, maybe official PR maven. And we had her as an expert for. For Podhacker. And if you don't know anything about Pod hacker, go to podhacker.com because you'll want to know. Yes, you will. So she was one of our monthly Pod Hacker experts this month, today at the time of this recording, and we told her about some of this vision, and she kind of reiterated that in her own words. Is like, you know, you guys don't need to probably do that much drastic changes with what you're doing because you have a lot of good stuff and you don't want to lose that.

Yeah.

So. And we talked about brand with her. She's pr, and that's when we watched this video. We started thinking about it. We're going through a website rebrand.

Yes.

We've obviously done a rebrand of the visuals of our podcast and how we do things here. So we're like, okay, this is very interesting because there's a lot of deeper stuff we haven't thought about, like how people really attach to us and our podcast brand or the thing we put out there. And then when you flip this around and look at what you're doing, I'm talking to you, the listener right now is like, what are you currently? Like, what's your flavor that you're putting out to the world? And how are people attracted to you rather than your competitors, even if you're in like a Red ocean type thing? Like, we kind of are the marketing based podcast, a business show. It's like, yeah, haven't heard of those before.

No, there's no other. I can't think of one.

Right. Yeah. But why would people listen to us? Why are you listening to us or watching us right now? Yeah, there's a reason, you know.

Yeah, it's true. And you know, going back to some of the things that we're doing is, you know, earlier, before we kind of got into this, I mentioned we're shooting on a camera that shoots in 4K, but we're actually shooting in 1080p.

Right.

And part of that is kind of keeping with that sort of relatability sort of thing. Right. Like, this was actually a comment from that Mr. Beast interview on Colin and Samir. He was actually mentioning that they have 4K cameras, but they shoot everything in 1080p. And they asked, well, why are you shooting 1080p? And he's like, as soon as you go to 4K, you start to become unrelatable. People see your videos and go like, that's almost too polished.

Like, you know, like the shaky camera versus the steady cam.

Yeah. Like some of the, like some of the channels I really like are Marques Brownlee and the Linus Tech tips is another one. And then there's that. What's the guy's name? Peter McKinnon. Right. Like all of these guys, these guys are shooting like ultra high quality videos and I watch them and I'm like, I love these videos, but it just. It feels so polished. It feels like at a level I don't know if I'll ever be able to get to. Like, we could get there if we wanted to, but our audience may not be wanting to get to those kinds of levels. So let's kind of hang out in this level.

Yeah, we could lose the relatability. And I think that's what Mars was saying. That's probably what Lisa was kind of saying as well is, you know, like, there is this thing you're putting out into the world that is a little deeper psychologically than we might not. We might be thinking, because we're. We're looking at the esthetics. We're looking at the, you know, oh, what platform am I putting this content on? Yeah. When am I doing these things? And, like. But it's, you know, the actions that we're taking, like both drinking yerba mate for some reason right now, and it's fabulous. Cheers.

I haven't had a yerba mate in probably a year, so.

Wow. Well, change. The yerba mate I'm drinking or that we're drinking from is probably three years old.

Well, it still works.

But, you know, there's certain things that we'll talk about. We talk about Padres a lot. You know, we love baseball burritos, team burritos.

We literally had somebody buy us burritos, because we talk. We had Ryan Carruthers. Thank you, Ryan.

He loves it when we shout.

Yeah, we had Ryan buy us burritos. Cause we talk about burritos so much on 50 bucks.

Go a long way, bro. Especially when you're talking Mexican food.

Yeah, well, that was burritos and drinks.

All right. So a little inside secret, Ryan. Yeah. You afforded us enough to also buy some alcoholic drinks, which we still have in our mini fridge over there.

And we recorded one podcast while drinking them, at least.

Appreciate you, brother. But see, that's a result. A perfect. Actually a great result of a brand and something that someone attached to Ryan in this case. But I know it's been brought up now many times. Sue even brought it up as a potential PR place. She's like, you guys should rate a bunch of burritos, dude.

That would actually be a legit video.

Something about that.

Go around San Diego, go to 10 different taco shops, buy a California burrito from each of them. And then you and I just. You only take one or two bites out of each. But then we rank them.

Do we do it here? Like, stack them? Like, do we actually. Is this A, hey, let's go film us go picking up burritos from random taco shops. Yes.

I think we get B roll of us picking up the burritos, but then we actually do the reviews here.

I like it. I like it. Cool.

But, like, you know, let's do that. What you're saying, too, is, like, part of the reason that I, like, I point out stuff like, this isn't real wood. This is just cloth. Like, you can see the wrinkles.

See this fat wrinkle right here? Yeah. We haven't even sprayed water on this thing.

We could iron this out and make it look really polished, but we're lazy, and so we haven't. And we point out the fact that, like, look, we're not doing everything perfectly.

This is a hack job.

Yeah. This, like, this is a white wall with a piece of cloth that looks like wood over it.

Okay. It looks like a dorm room in most of our office in here. Okay. We're not gonna lie. But.

But we point that stuff out, and I feel like most of the, like, I feel like there's so many other creators out there that want to give off this perception that they're always polished all the time, and everything is always the best you can buy.

Right.

And, like, we're getting off the perception of, like, we want it to look like the best you could buy. But look, we're thrift store shopping to build our studio.

You know, it wasn't thrift store.

It wasn't. It wasn't.

But if it was an idea, if it was at a thrift store, we damn well.

It was a metaphor, damn it.

But we would have bought it if we saw it in the thrift store. So there's. I want to look at. Because we actually did do some planning on this episode.

Yep.

Is that another thing is, like, managing perceptions. I feel like with a brand, you know, you have the ability. And this is not just talking about us, by the way. We're just using us as an example. But we want you to think about yourself and your business and the brand that you may or may not have already. Like, maybe you just haven't started anything yet. Cool. Think about that flavor, that thing you want to put into the world that allows people to attach to you. You're unique, but also, there's, like, this bond that is almost like you can't put a finger on what it actually is, but it's like, the essence.

Yeah. Well, that psychology. The psychology video. I already forgot the title of the YouTube video, but the one that we.

Were Watching earlier, it is called how Apple and Nike have branded your brain.

Yeah. But basically the point it was making is that you almost see some of the brands that you're really attached to as like another family member.

Right.

Like, they were talking about how Apple users and Samsung users were like, using their devices and they were given bad news about Apple.

Right.

And like, the people that were Apple users actually felt like. I don't remember the wording.

They used their pathetic.

They were empathetic. They were like, oh, no, poor Apple.

They said that they, like, they did brain scans. Yeah. And they said that the Apple fan girls and boys basically had an empathetic response like it was someone in their family.

Yeah. Which is crazy. That, like, you can build a brand and get that brand to a point where people will defend the brand. Right. Like, when you go out and be like, I hate Apple, there's always gonna be somebody that's like, what's wrong with Apple? I love my Apple phone. You know, like that, like, Apple has defenders. Right. Like, how do you build a brand where people go to bat for that brand as if you were a family member?

And then you have the Samsung folks, which they were talking about, they did a brain scan of those folks and they said the same thing and they said they basically had the flip. It was like the hatred of Apple came out. Yeah. It was like this. Yeah.

Apple. Apple blew something.

They deserve it.

What I also found interesting about the study they did was it wasn't like there was Apple fans and there was Samsung fans. Right. There was Apple fans and there was people who hated Apple. So the ones that bought Samsung, they weren't doing it because they had brand loyalty towards Samsung. They were buying it because they just didn't want Apple.

So think about other brands. That has to be showing up in a lot of other ways. Think about. Well, actually, we brought up Gary Vee. A lot of people that love Gary Vee, and there's a lot of people that hate the rah rah hustle of Gary Vee.

Yeah.

Doesn't. It's not good or bad, but it's like, it's a flavor. Yeah. Grant Cardone's another great one.

Yeah.

You either love them or you hate them. There's not really an in between. Or it's not like, oh, I can just kind of. I'm kind of meh about either. Nah. Yeah.

And I think that's a big piece of getting a brand, right, is you've got to stand for something and you've got to have people that like, what you stand for and people that don't like what you stand for, but you got to stand for something.

Yeah. It's not right or wrong. It's just. Yeah. How do you want to show up and what do you want to do with your brand?

Yeah. No, and I. It was. It was a very, very fascinating study. Like, I just found it so interest that, you know, you've got people, when they were talking about Apple, you've got people that will literally go to bat for the brand if people are talking crap.

Yeah.

You've got people that, like, every time a product comes out, they go buy the product just because that logo is.

On it, wait in line overnight, all that stuff. So I guess to pose it back to the listener watcher is like, how do you want to be identified with your brand? I think being very intentional with that before you maybe get too deep into things or start going any direction. That's almost like a north star that is internal. Like this. This compass that you can have and define for yourself and choose like, hey, this is how I want to show up. But also this is how I want people to identify with my brand and whatever I'm creating. Because I know and, you know, we all know that what we're creating isn't just to create some random crap and throw it out there. Like, there's a purpose behind it.

Yeah.

There's a ripple effect. So what is that thing that we want to push out? Not push out, but, like, give to the world.

Right.

And then certain people will attach to it and do something with it. Some people might buy burritos for you. Some people might do share, you know? You know what I mean? Like, that's how loyal customers become a thing. That's why we sometimes get hate mail when we change the intro of our podcast. Yeah, but it's actually love mail. I know.

When we were talking about Lisa earlier, layered in Love, she asked if we were going to change our logo with our rebrand of our website. We're like, yeah, we're going to make some small tweaks. She's like, I'm really attached to the logo, so don't change it too much.

Rightly so. So that might be one we don't touch. Yeah.

We just said, yeah, maybe the background.

A little bit to match the. Okay, okay. Believe the face. Yeah.

We've got to be careful to not go too far away from the brand identity that people have associated us with. Right. Like, people associate us as this certain brand, and if we were to go and change the image Change the intro. Get super serious on our podcast where we're just straight laced, like, perfect interviewers now. People would probably check out. They'd be like, that's not who I signed up for.

You know, like, that ain't ever gonna happen. We are studying Andrew Warner's book on how to be a better interviewer. But we're never gonna be Andrew Warner. We're never from Mixergy, if you're just wondering.

Yeah, very true.

So, yeah. What else we got, Matt?

Well, another. Another thing that I found interesting about that video was he was talking about, you know, there's a lot of people out there that are like, well, I don't. I don't do brands. I don't wear shirts with brands on it. I don't show off logos. I don't do brands at all.

You do more brands than that, actually. You're going straight up Rocky National Park.

This is an Estes park shirt, which is from the town I just got back from. And this is a Rocky Mountain national park hat, which is right on the.

Yesterday you had an Estes park hat. Oh, no. Yeah. Estes park brewery hat.

Yes.

So we know where his loyalty lies. It's in Colorado.

Yeah. I am unbranded. Yeah.

Well, the point that they were making though was like, even the people that go out there and say, like, I don't attach to brands. I don't like brands. That's your brand. Yeah. Right. Your brand is somebody who doesn't want to be identified with brands. I'm the, like, you are the same as the people who do identify with a brand, except what you identify with is that you don't like to wear or we don't choose publicized brands.

Yeah. Which is interesting because there's. I don't know what it is, but yeah. All this stuff is happening in our customers, our listeners, our viewers minds that we should definitely be understanding and thinking about and at least being like proactive with, like, how do we want to put ourself into the world? That's why we're like this website we're getting redone right now by Studio One Design. Greg Merrilies. Highly recommend those guys. Tell them we sent you.

They also did our Hustle and Flowchart shirt logo today.

Yeah. The one that is wildly popular.

Yes.

But yeah, you'll love this whole thing. But it's gonna be an extension of us. It's gonna be nomorevergreenprofits.com that's basically not really us.

Still go there now because we haven't changed it over yet still go there.

Yeah. But when it's rebranded and you'll see the difference. Yeah. But you'll see how this is how we have been thinking through our brand and we've hired someone, Greg and his team, who understands our brand. He actually listens. Hi, Greg. And so, like, it's really cool to have someone to help further our brand, but also it's up to us to figure out, like, okay, is that really how we want to be, you know, looking like, in. And is that how we want to basically, like, put our brand out into the world? And one of the things that Lisa said also is to kind of like that a lot of people when they do a rebrand, like, when you kind of switch things up in the future. Remember, she was like, that doesn't normally go well.

Yeah.

And we explained because I think she was a little hesitant with us doing that. Yeah. Because of her experience, like, 20 plus years doing this and seeing people do that. Our companies do it. But we explained how it's actually been this more of a confusing thing than anything.

Yeah. Well, we like everybody. So we have Evergreen profits and we have Hustle and Flowchart. People know us more for Hustle and Flowchart, yet we're driving everybody to evergreenprofits.com so we're actually. We're actually taking the brand that most people know us for and leaning more into it. We're not rebranding Evergreen profits to Hustle and Flowchart. We already have the Hustle and Flowchart brand. We're just going all in on the brand.

Yeah. So I think what she said is extremely wise words, and it wasn't really our scenario. At least I don't think we're screwing it up. Yeah. Hopefully we'll find out.

I don't think many people refer to us as the Evergreen profits guys it used to be.

But yeah, you're right. It's more like our friends or customers that have been around for.

People have been around for a while.

Yeah. Yeah. But like, to her point. Oh, no, I think this is, like, to the listener, you guys listening and watching is making sure that you had the brand kind of understood before you start doing any kind of dramatic things to the perception of your brand, like, to the world. And so really understand now, like, look at yourself and how are you identifying? Like, how are people identifying to you right now? How are they attaching to you, like, psychologically and thinking of you and, like, what's the reason why they choose you over another podcast or whatever blog, you know?

And I also. I also say look at the brands that you're paying attention to and see how you know how your relationship is with those brands.

Right.

Like, if you're an Apple user, analyze what drew you to Apple. Was it because Apple was the sort of hip, trendy brand that all the youngsters were using?

All the whippersnappers.

That's what all the whippersnappers are using. And that's why you're doing. You're using Apple.

They got a lot of grass.

Yeah. Are you using Apple? Like, I'll tell you, the reason I use Apple is because when I first started, I was a PC guy for my entire life, all the way up until about 2010. Ish. Right. I was always a PC guy. I switched to Apple because when we started getting into digital marketing, the people who. The people who were like, in our circles, A, all used Apples and B, convinced me that Apple was the way to go. If you want to be a creator like Apple, like, they were. I don't know if it's true or not. Probably not very big of a difference totally today. But what I was told back then was, if you're editing video, you should be using an Apple. If you're doing photo editing, you should be using an Apple. If you're doing podcasting, you should be like, it's the creator's choice. Right. And I bought into that. I don't know if that's true still to this day. They're probably pretty damn equal. But that's why I bought into Apple. And now I'm. I'm part of that ecosystem. And I'm an Apple guy.

Dude, I used to hate on Apple, like, back when it was like, not the cool thing, but, yeah, like, my good buddy Brenton, I grew up with, like, he obsessed over Max and all that. He's actually flipped the opposite direction. Whereas I flipped to Apple, which is ironic. But, I mean, I converted, I guess, right around you did the time. You did. But I think there's legitimacy to, like, actually helping creators. But I'm sure we would have been fine using Apple or our PC products.

We'd gotten by for that long until then.

Yeah, I'm like, yeah, we were doing freaking gaming and video editing and coding and all that stuff prior to whatever.

I just think it's an interesting exercise to look at the brands that you tend to buy and you tend to go to and just kind of go, what gravitated you to that brand? Because that's good intel into, like, the way your brain works. But Also, the way other brains work to getting attracted to brands. Right. Like, we started this episode off by talking about rode. Well, we have all this Rode stuff because we highly respect Charlie Valor. He's one of our podcast gurus who tells us, like, this is the equipment you want. This is like, the. Like, he's constantly feeding us really good ways to grow and improve our podcast.

These mics are rude as well.

And he was like, go with the rode setup. And we really trusted him. And now we're fans of Rode when it comes to the Elgato stuff. Mike Koenigs uses Elgato stuff. George Bryant uses Elgato stuff. It's like, I think when we attach to brands, it's because our peers attach to brands and tell us this is the brand to go with, and then we just kind of agree with them. And there could be way better mics and mixing boards than what we're using. But because our peers are all using this, too, we're kind of going along with the herd a little bit, I guess.

I mean, it works and it solves our things. And, yeah, we probably are going with the herd.

It's just an interesting analysis.

It is, right?

Like, it's interesting to think, like, why is this a brand that I go for, but that brand. Like, think about the brands you're repelled by, too. Like, are there any brands that you can think of where you're like, I'd never buy that.

I mean, there's. I mean, there's probably a lot. Yeah, there's a bunch of them.

Yeah. It's like.

It's more like. Yeah. Because I feel like most people will gravitate to maybe a handful of brands.

Yeah.

Like, there's like. Or maybe even one brand for specific use.

Yeah.

And there's probably some overlap where it's, like, a reason why you choose, like, these set of brands collectively over just like, it's not like we're. Because psychologically, you got to think there's reasons behind all these selections. So there's gotta be some kind of, like, overlaying psychology to why you choose anything. Yeah. Like, let's say.

Or why you're repelled by things, too.

And. Yeah, same thing, right? Yeah. Just the opposite of that. So it's. I don't know what that is. Well, I know from my notes from that video, like, a couple things is, like, it says humans need a support system and typically, like. Well, think about it now. It's like, in this day and age.

It'S a tribalism thing.

It's tribalism it's also. You want to be connected to a group, a community, and think of like, now where so many people are on social media. There's YouTube creators with communities. There's like, Mr. Beast has all of his. You know, he freaking shout. Everybody's.

All people identify as MrBeast fans. Like, how many. Like, how many friggin shirts does that dude sell? Like, he sells.

That's why swag exists. Bands, you know, like movies. People are like Trekkies or Star. You know, Star Trek.

They identify. There's like a. They've created a tribe of people that all sort of identify with the same thing. Right. Like, if you're wearing a Mr. Beast shirt and you're out walking around and you see somebody else wearing a Mr. Beast shirt, you're like, hey, like Padres, right? We're both huge Padre fans. If we're walking around, I'm wearing my Padre hat, I see somebody walk by me with a Padre hat, we're giving each other a nod. We're part of the same community.

I've done that many a times at the zoo. Yeah, like, does that. I'm like, yeah, exactly.

Like, the same with like, bands.

Dodger feelings. Yeah, go back home.

I'm wearing a Padre hat, you're wearing a Dodger fan. You get the finger.

You know, just what it is.

It's just what it is, what you do.

It's the only right thing to do. No blue here.

But you know, sorry.

Louis Diaz. Yeah, he's helping us grow some stuff. Thank you. He is. Don't talk too much smack.

But yeah, like, it's in. It's.

Yeah.

Like, it comes down to that, like, tribalism thing. You get it with sports teams, you get it with churches, you get it with.

With products, you know, Definitely. Well, yeah, there's a lot of. Yeah. So think about sports teams is a huge one. Yeah, Think about it. That's actually a per. And church.

Yeah.

Like, those are things that collective groups are attaching to. And then that's the thing is like, if you're able to be around more people from that group. Like, it's a little tough with podcasters or YouTubers, but it helps when there's swag around or if you come to the same event, a conference, and then you start seeing some familiar faces or similar hats and you're. And then there's that bond. But then there's. But you know that there's some deeper bonds. It's not just the brand. It's like, oh, okay. That means that they're probably in it. This is probably how they think, how they act, roughly.

Yeah.

You know what they're paying attention to in general, like, in the world.

Well, a great example of a company who I think has really, in most areas, there's some areas where I think they're not doing as good of a job, but most areas, I think they're kind of killing it with branding. And that's clickfunnels. Right? Clickfunnels. If you look at clickfunnels, they've branded the term. I'm a funnel hacker. Right. If you go to any, like, Internet marketing related conference, tnc, funnel hacker, even the podcast events, you'll see shirts everywhere that say, I'm a funnel hacker. Yeah, right.

Like that hashtag, it's all blown up Instagram.

The term funnel hacker is entered into, like, the lexicon of, like, entrepreneurs now, right? So it's like, like, now people identify as funnel hackers. You might see it, I'm a funnel hack. Like, we might be at the zoo one day and you see another funnel hacker shirt, you're like, I know what that guy does for a living. You know, like, like they've done a really good job of creating that tribe around them. And so, like, if we're getting into like, some. Some practical things that you can do, like, that's one of them. Start trying to brand some terms. Right? Like, and we.

Yeah, we've actually chat about that quite a bit. Yeah, like, yeah, we have all sorts of different terms. And sometimes, yeah, it's almost like naming the group up, which we've never found a good name for. Hustle and Flowchart.

Yeah, we don't like hustlers. Everybody suggests hustlers, but we're not a fan of Hustlers because we're not. Like, this show's not about the hustle.

We're not porn stars either.

Yeah, we're not. We have. We have no relation with Larry Fl.

But his wheelchair sounds pretty cool.

Wait, no, that's. Is that Hustler? I think that's Hustler.

Okay. Yes. His golden wheelchair. At least he did a long time ago. I don't know if he's. Is he alive still?

I have no idea.

I haven't kept up with my Hustler news.

Yeah.

Ever.

I haven't been involved in the porn industry in, like, months.

You made it big. I remember that one video. We won't talk about that. All right. That's not me.

I don't think they'll allow that to be aired in the US Anymore. Like, even on The Internet, like, I think it's banned in the US you.

Would be blacklisted, canceled, and all the. Oh, yeah, but that's not that. This is a different mat now. Please don't cancel us. We want to stick around and keep yakking about stuff. Yeah.

But, yeah, where do we take this? Because I feel like some action steps are good.

I like that. So branding some terms, but some of the things that I think people don't think as much about is like, we've really kind of put focus into color schemes too. One of the things that we actually spend some time doing is like, okay, let's make sure that this imagery kind of fits the brand image. Like, we literally have somebody on our team made a brand style sheet for us of like, these are the fonts you use in your brand. These are the colors you use in your brand. So you get this, like, brand consistency. So when people go to our website, it looks similar to if they're on our YouTube. And those look similar to the emails you're gonna get from us. And those look similar to what you might see over on Instagram from us.

Right.

Like, we created that brand consistency. And before we were just kind of making images and slapping them up and there was no color schemes, no fonts, but now there's like this real consistency across everything. And I think that's important because it's gotten to a point now where, like, when people go and see, like, the yellow and black and that font, they just associate. Oh, that's a hustle and flowchart thing, you know?

Yeah. And that's where. That's what we're thinking about our website and, like, matching all these things. It's like, that's probably the trickiest thing for us is like, what is that? Public perception? Which colors are part of it? It's like, I'll just say it, like, with the mock up that we have right now, which we haven't ripped it apart yet, because we will. And that's a good thing. But it has very sunset Y colors, which is amazing because I'm like, that's my favorite time of the day, which I'm sure is the case for a lot of people. But also it doesn't match our yellow branded icon in itunes and Spotify and stuff. But that could be changed, but we just don't want to change it too much, you know, so. But I like the orange vibes because it is kind of like this kind of chill.

We're gonna find that happy medium.

We will, we will. But, yeah, it's it's interesting to think about all the. Like, it's like a balancing act.

Yeah. And another thing, like. And we've talked about this on the show before, but at one point, we tried to change the intro music. Like, temporary. Like, we changed it for, like, maybe four or five episodes where, you know.

We have our normal death threats and all that.

Well, I mean, that might be a little traumatic, but we had people coming to us going, what happened to the intro? I like the old intro. What's with this new thing? It's good. But the old one was like, you guys, right? And we realized that we added this polished, highly produced intro into it, and that wasn't our brand. Our brand was, like, the guys who were just kind of fucking around.

Oh, you said it.

Oh, shit.

We decided we were gonna cuss less, huh?

Yeah. And I don't think I've committed a single cuss. And you just went, bam, bam. Ah, shit.

Ba, bam.

One, two, bam.

Okay, that was it. That's it. I'm done.

That's fin.

All right, so let's. I think that's. I mean, so the last thing I think I want to talk about is. And I don't know if there's a lot here, but the mission. Like, kind of talk about the North Star, like, so we've been doing a lot of work. I mentioned Angelo.

Let's start with, like, let's talk about the Mr. Beast example real quick. And then, so, like, with Mr. Beast, this video that we were watching, and we'll link it up in the show notes below both the video and if you're listening on audio on the show notes page. But the Mr. Beast video, he talks about how his entire goal with what he's doing with all of his YouTube channels is to essentially die broke, right? Like, he's making all this money, millions of dollars a month. He reinvests every single penny into making the videos and into philanthropic efforts, right? His main thing is to build homeless shelters and food pantries for people, right? So all of the money that he's making is either going into these videos or going into these food pantries. So he has the. This bigger why behind what he's doing. And, like, I think a lot of people look at Mr. Beast and they go like, oh, he's just this silly guy who gives away Lambos and has, like, plays video games with his buddies and screws around. But, like, it's very methodical. Like, the videos are very, very well thought out to, like, sort of plug into the YouTube algorithm. So they get lots of views. But then once he gets those views and YouTube pays him for those videos, he has a plan for where all that money's going. It's part of it goes into reinvesting the next video, and part of it goes towards this bigger mission of food pantries and homeless shelters. And that bigger mission is what drives him to make bigger and better and, like, more interesting videos. Because he knows that by doing that, he can raise more money for these causes that really matter to him.

So technically, every video you watch on a Mr. Beast channel is helping to fund food shelters and pantries. And not food shelters.

Food shelters and homeless pantries.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. But, yeah, those two. So it's cool to know. I mean, we would have not have even known that unless we saw that interview. Yeah, but that's. Yeah, that's the mission. So he obviously has a clear mission. I don't know if he was aided in that mission. It doesn't matter. But he has a team, you know, it helps him execute a lot of the business stuff. He has his focus on creating really freaking good content for YouTube. That's his. But he knows that drives everything else. And I think that's really cool because he can create a solid brand about how he wants to. To get perceived out there. That's where he puts all of his attention. And then he knows, like, okay, this brand that I'm building right now is gonna have this ripple effect into everything else that I really wanna build into, and I'm just gonna dump all my fricking money into it to produce the best content on, like, the top of the funnel, I guess, like, more the megaphone. I'm gonna use that reference map. Okay. And then it's not gonna work, actually. We'll bring it back.

Yeah, we'll bring it back.

But, yeah, he's just shouting from the mountaintops with the best content. That's the most engaging thing. Then he knows that his mission is actually to do this other stuff.

Yeah.

And it's just funding everything. And so identifying whatever that mission is inside your brand, I think is. Is going to be the driver that pushes, because I think it's going to be the thing for us. And we are technically still looking for this.

Yeah, I was going to say, I feel like that's one of the things we've actually sort of struggled with over time is like, what is that bigger mission? Like, we don't want to just be creating content and making money for the sake of creating content and making money off of it like we want to have that bigger mission that we're driving towards and we've talked a lot about it. We've got ideas. We kind of have a little bit of a vision. It'll probably be another episode where we break down the vision, but yeah, we.

Just don't know how to get there yet. I think that's the thing and that's why Mr. Beast and probably a lot of people with this is they bring on experts and people to help them out to actually execute that, because we don't need to know how to do it all. But I think it's really cool to. At least you and I. I think we've identified roughly where we. Like the thing for Matt and I is we want to give back to kids. Education is a big thing. I've fostered kids, so I would love to somehow get involved with foster children. People that like, don't have a lot of support. And like, somewhere around there, I think, is where we'll be. We don't know how exactly.

Yeah, there's that and then there's, you know, the climate change stuff is getting scarier and scarier and there's a lot of things there that I think we want to figure out better ways that we can be contributors towards the solution instead of the problem. So, yeah, there's a few areas that we're exploring that we want to go really big on and that'll be stuff that we sort of share over time. But I think that's a big piece.

Of branding that I think is not. And that I think that comes out with the flavor that we put out into the world because that's just always going to. Mixed in with our messaging, might be on our website, talked about occasionally, or the guests that we bring on are going to lean towards mental health.

For instance, that was the other third piece.

Yeah, there was a triad to suicide. So it's like, shit, I'm pretty into that now and I. I have a lot of friends. I know we've experienced mental health battles and family as well. So it's like, let's. Like there's something there. So, you know, we're actively working through that and I don't know, maybe there's a. Well, that's why I brought Angelo up again, because let's circle back around to that. Yeah, we're doing a deep dive on Alpha Hippie and there's writing your legacy as part of it and all these other things. But that really has been opening up my mind into, oh, what is this future thing like how do I want to be remembered 2, 300 years from now? And like, that's so damn hard to fathom. Like, is the world even going to exist in 2 to 300 years? Maybe not as we know it, but I bet some people will be around. So ideally, we want to leave an impact somehow. And one of the things that Angelo brought up when he read My Legacy won't go into all the details, but he's like, does this bring fear to you? Like, like, does it bring you fear somehow? And I was like, nah. And he's like. I was like, I'm good.

It's not big enough.

And he's like, it's not big enough. You need to have some fear to strike fear in you. So it actually drives you further and gets you to do a little bit more out of the box and expand yourself bigger. And it doesn't mean it's not fulfilling or it's gonna be enjoy. Like it's gonna be great, but it's gonna push you. So I figured that for myself. But I think that's what a mission does for a brand too. It's gonna allow us to elevate ourselves. Like how Mr. Beast is doing that, Jimmy, and how he's. He has this like, desire to pump all, like go broke and dump all of his money back into his fricking YouTube videos where he's making like what he said, like 14 million or something.

Well, there's a, There's a Noah Kagan video where he breaks down how much MrBeast is making. And I think he came to the conclusion that he's making like 14 million.

And he's in his 20s. And the guy literally goes broke every video because he's dumping everything into high production, giving away Lambos houses, all that. But he knows the earnings from those videos are gonna get dumped into the. This mission that he's built. And that's fucking cool.

The Internet breaks.

But that's where I think the brand and a mission. And you gotta have at least some kind of mission there. And that's that North Star that might be more external, like the businesses internal.

North Star and then really sort of our own too, really dissecting Mr. Beast thing. And I think this is actually a topic for another episode. But he's basically building a media company. And I think a lot of people are looking at him like, like, oh, he's the future Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt. Like, he's the future celebrity. No, he doesn't want to be the future celebrity. He wants to be the future FOX the future, NBC the future. Like, he wants to build the media company. Right. And a lot of our aspirations are around building a bigger media company, but I feel like that's like a whole. That's a whole episode.

We've alluded to that a lot. But, yeah, I think it's getting a lot more defined, but that's where our heads are. And I think it's cool to now think of branding in this way with a deeper thing with mission and the relatability, like, making sure that's all tied into it, because that should help us make decisions and help us to say that's not a good opportunity. We don't need to do that. But, like, it just helps us kind of really drive things forward and go bigger than we thought was possible before.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like if our goal is only ever to make the podcast bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, it's kind of a shallow goal.

That we'll probably just, like, money is.

Yeah, just like money is that we'll probably get bored with, like, striving for. But if the podcast was the machine that facilitated this larger goal, then it makes sense to make the show go bigger and bigger and bigger because it's facilitating this thing up here.

It's a tool. Yes. It's just like, money's a tool. California burritos are a tool. Marijuana's a tool. Alcohol is a tool. If you use it in the right way. Just saying, all these things are a tool. Branding is a tool.

Out of all those tools. Alcohol is the tool I'm trying to cut out of my life, but I'm just trying to.

Yerba Mate is a tool. It is. The iPhone's a tool.

I mean, tobacco is a tool, too.

I think that's nicotine. It's how you frame things and how you use things. But, yeah, at the end of the day, I think that's a good discussion around branding.

Yeah, I think we covered the ground we wanted to cover.

Yeah. I didn't even read that whiteboard that we had back there.

Yeah, we kind of jumped around from the initial flow, but it. I think it. I think it worked. I think it worked.

It good. Did good. High five. I have sweaty palms. You don't want that.

Yeah. So this episode is obviously, as always, supported by Amazing Partner.

Oh, yes. That one should be obvious because it's been years. Yeah. Easy webinar. Our friends are basically. They feel like our family now.

Yes.

We've known Casey for years and know his family and the team and you know what Easy Webinars. Who's sponsoring it? Not Casey personally, but you know what? We love the team. Yes. So Easy Webinar. They do everything. Webinars, Everything you can think of. They got you covered, and they're hooking you up, fatty. Why shall folks choose Easy Webinar over the others?

Well, because Easy Webinar does all the webinars. It does the lives, the automated, the hybrids. I feel like I just repeat myself on every episode now. But, you know, the listeners know why they should get Easy Webinar. They most likely all have it by now because of how awesome it is. So just go to Easy Webinar and.

Hold on to it. If you have it already, then you've obviously been hooked up with a fat discount. So maybe their sponsorships are because they want to retain customers as well. Like that.

Yeah. So stick around with Easy Webinar. If you don't have it yet, though, you can get a discount for being a listener. If you go to easywebinar.com hustle, you can get a discount.

And we don't know how long that discount will last. It's lasted a while, but that's to your benefit. And because Casey loves you.

Casey loves you.

He does.

Because you're a Hustle and Flowchart listener. So keep listening if you want more people to love you, you. Wow, that didn't come out right.

Not at all. We're gonna end on that. Oh, we don't have. Well, you know what? We'll read reviews next time. Yes, next week.

Yeah, we did get some new reviews.

And we're gonna read new ones.

I was gonna print them out, actually, so we had them in front of us, but I forgot Thursday. Yeah.

We're recording podcasts in a couple days, so there you go. There you go. There you go. I don't have a printer at home. I'm not an old man like you.

Yeah, I mean, printers are kind of nice to have sometimes.

They are. I know. I just need to buy a new one. They break often. Yeah.

One last thing I want to remind you, if you want the notes for this, you can go to flowchartgroup.com and join our Facebook group. And in that process, we will hook you up with the notes.

So flowchartgroup.com Also, if you don't mind, if you're still here hanging out and enjoying our voices, our voices in your ears or our beautiful faces.

Thank you.

That was the ear massage.

That felt good. Turn up the bass.

Is. Check out hustleandflowchart TV. That's us on YouTube. We are desperately trying to break the 1000.

We're desperate. We're begging. We're on our knees.

We're so desperate. We are like 100 away. So be our super fans and tell everybody else if you haven't subscribed or if you've subscribed already. Yeah, if you haven't, go hit the subscribe button, hit the bell. All that stuff that I don't know does.

I thought you're supposed to smash the like button.

Smash it, tap it, whatever feels right. Just, just.

We blow on it, rub it a little.

You got to clean your monitors, your phone screen. So on that note, go, go check us out. Hustleandflowchart tv. Leave a comment, tell us you're there, or and leave a review.

That would be great.

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Thanks, everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and flowchart podcast for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a CliffsNotes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com, find this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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