How To Be Seen & Unleash Your Authentic Brand with Jen Gottlieb

I dropped out of college when I was 20 and I moved to New York City to pursue musical theater. And I ended up doing the Broadway national tour of the Wedding Singer, which is the Adam Sandler movie the Wedding Singer. And I played my dream role. I traveled all around the country for a year performing. And I started to realize during that time that the traditional world of acting and performing on the road, doing 10 shows a week, was not my favorite thing. And that was a little concerning to me because my whole life I thought that this is everything, this is what I wanted. And then I was doing it and I was like, oh, wait, is this. Oh my God, is this not what I thought it was?

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flow Chart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hust mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger. So that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy.

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I'm super excited to be here. This is my favorite stuff to talk about. So I know we're going to have a great convo for sure.

You obviously have a very interesting past. You have a lot of experience in media over the years, and I'm very curious to just learn a little bit about the pieces and the transition points going from all the way. Pretty obvious one is VH1 host over there and spending a lot of time, I think it was, what, five years in that space. Right. So I know there's way more than that. And now you're coaching what, tens of thousands of entrepreneurs, small business owners, coaches, experts, authors, like, basically finding your voice, finding out what your message is and expressing that in a way that connects with the right people. So walk me through, I guess, all the way back. I mean, you did Broadway as well as an actress there. So I mean, it's an interesting combo. And I'm curious to dive into your the little tidbits, the superpowers you have and how you can share it with all of us.

Yeah, I mean, it's ironic because I've been being seen, quote, unquote, for like my whole life as a performer, as an actress. And I always thought that my purpose was to perform, always since, like, since I could remember even, like having memories. You know, I remember being like five and on. I was in this children's theater performing group and we were on a stage and I was singing like the Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow from Annie or something. And I'm looking out at the audience. And I remember this like it was yesterday, like, having this thought in my mind as I looked out and I saw the audience and I was connecting with them, and I felt the lights and the excitement, and I saw my parents, like, waving at me. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, there is nothing better than this. This is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Ah. So it was early for you. Early.

I mean, if you came over to my house when I was 4, there was a very big chance that I was taking your hand into the living room, and I would sit you on the couch and I would. A show for you. You would have to watch my show the entire time you were there. And if you took your eyes off of my show, it would be bad. Like, no, no. You need to watch what I'm doing right now. So I. I always wanted to be seen. I was, like, just natural. It just was, like, in me since. Since birth. But the ironic thing is, is that I was always chasing this. This, like, visibility or this opportunity to connect with an audience in a way that I don't really feel like was the real purpose. And I talk about that a lot in the book because I always thought that it was to say other people's lines and become the person that I needed to be in order to fit that role or become that character or perform somebody else's vision and wait for somebody else to choose me and tell me that I'm good enough in order to be that and form that or transform myself into that in whatever way, shape and form, I needed to do that in that moment. And that. That got me into a lot of trouble, and it really affected me in a really negative way. You talked about VH1. So when I was. I dropped out of college when I was 20, and I moved to New York City to pursue musical theater. And I ended up doing the Broadway national tour of the Wedding Singer, which is the Adam Sandler movie the Wedding Singer. And I played my dream role. I traveled all around the country for a year performing. And I started to realize during that time that the traditional world of acting and performing on the road, doing 10 shows a week, was not my favorite thing. And that was a little concerning to me because my whole life, I thought that this is everything. This is what I wanted. And then I was doing it, and I was like, oh, wait, is this not. Oh, my God, is this not what I thought it was?

Was there a moment or a thing that, like, triggered that for you?

There wasn't a moment Or a thing. It was just an ongoing kind of nag in my gut where I just. I didn't even want to believe it. I didn't even want to hear it. And I didn't hear it. I kept pushing it away because it kept saying to me, like, do you really like this? Is this. Is this fun? Like, yes, it's fun. It's fun. It's fun. But I really knew that I was like, I was kind of. Because that's a really big.

Really big moment to realize that everything you've been working for your entire life isn't what you thought it was going to be. And I was not ready to see that. So I finished the tour and I came home and I did what a good little actress does. And I kept auditioning and trying to get a gig. And it turns out I got this gig on this TV show about heavy metal music. And I don't like heavy metal music. I never did. I never knew a thing about it. I still don't to this day. Couldn't be further from who I really was. But I was like, sure, I could be this person. You want me to be this person? I'll be this person. I can play heavy metal, girl. Let's go. But the bad thing about this was, before I knew it, it was like five years later. And I had built a brand that was a lie, and I had built this Persona of who I thought everybody needed me to be. And over that process of doing that, I had completely lost who I really was. And my life had become completely and totally out of alignment because I wasn't living my truth. I was living a lie. Even though it was in my professional life, it was totally also my personal life. Because for me, it was like, that was everything.

Yeah, all the way from your childhood. Like you said, you were reciting lines, you know, and thinking of other people's. Obviously, you're expressing yourself and you're a kid, so you're just figuring it all out. But, yeah, you were building probably up that kind of Persona naturally, all the way to this point.

Well, the crazy thing is, is, like. And I love the art of performing and acting, and maybe I'll go back to that one day. I love it. Like, I've studied acting and performing and singing and dancing and everything forever. And I love that art. But what was weird about the show, this show, that metal show in VH1, was, it was a talk show, and I was playing myself. So I was Jen, I was Jennifer, but I was this version of me that was not Me. So it wasn't like I was a character. Like, I had lines to recite. It was like I was this girl, like the hot chick on the show that was this super metal girl. And this was who I was. And I had social, social media platforms saying that this is who I was. And I was in the media saying that this is who I was. Jennifer Gottlieb. Me, myself, not a character, was this person. And it was like that same voice that was like, kinda started, like, whisper at me during the wedding. Singer started screaming at me during metal show.

Gosh.

And I still didn't listen. And when you don't listen and you're out of alignment and you can't get yourself back in, a lot of the times I believe the universe will step in, God will step in. Whatever you believe in will step in and do it for you. And a lot of the times it'll hurt. And so it all kind of went away in a very short amount of time. At the same time, like, the show got canceled. The guy that I was dating that I thought I was going to marry ended up leaving me for one of our friends. And I was severely depressed and bulimic and just in a bad place at that time. And I kind of just ended up with nothing. And I found myself in this apartment with six other actors that lived there with a window that faced a brick wall. And I didn't know who I was anymore. I didn't have a job, I didn't have a relationship. And I was like, okay, what the hell do I do now? And that was the shit that happened that had to happen for the shift to happen. I say this all the time. Sometimes shit happens so the shift can happen. And there it was like, but the shift didn't happen overnight.

No way.

It certainly didn't. I wish that it did. I wish I could tell you that it did. I wish I could tell you that I, like, sat there, looked outside that at that brick wall that I stared at out that window and was like, oh, my God, I know exactly what I want to do.

I didn't see the pieces. It's all connected.

No, I didn't see shit. I didn't see shit. I saw a lot of fear. I saw a lot of helplessness. I saw a lot of, what the hell do I do? I saw a lot of, oh, my God, maybe you need to go, like, pick up the pieces and go back to that life. Like, there was a lot of just utter fear in that time. But it was the most powerful time in my Life. And I remember just writing down every single day. Like, one day I'll know why this happened. One day I'll know why this happened. One day I'll know why this happened. That's all I could write down. And now having these conversations and holding my book in my hand and doing these keynotes where I tell the story, it's like, oh, my gosh, you can't connect the dots when you're in it, but when you look backwards, it all makes sense. And now it does. But it didn't then.

Right. And this is. So in that space of acting, of performing, I'm imagining that's a fairly common feeling that. Or maybe. And you tell me, I'm really curious, because you knew so many of these people. Like, were you the only one going through this kind of internal struggle? Were you able to talk it through, relate to others? Or do you think it was more like a. Was it. Was it you? And, like, so tell me about, like, is this a pretty common thing? Because I'm sure there's a lot of performers who have struggled with this that are listening right now. And then there's obviously people who aren't performers. So I'm curious of thoughts on that side, too.

Well, I'm curious to know what it looks like to be an actor now in today's day and age, because it's much different now because then we didn't really have, like, there wasn't so much of a. An importance around, like, building your brand online.

Yeah.

So now it's like, if you're an actor, it doesn't matter what you do in the world. Like, I was just talking to somebody yesterday whose kid is a hockey player, and she's like, oh, I'm building my kids hockey Instagram. Because all the kids have to have an Instagram if they want to get into a good school, because they need to have followers, and that helps them get into a good school. I'm like, well, everybody needs a brand. So now when you're an actor, you're not just like, what I used to do, which was walking into an audition with my headshot stapled to my piece of paper resume. Now it's like you've got your social media presence and your brand, which is your life and you and your career and everything all wrapped up into one that you're presenting to the world every single day. So I didn't have that. It was a much different world for me. I don't know what it's like now. And when I was an actor, I Think the biggest problem that I saw that people were struggling with wasn't necessarily, like, living a lie, because what I was doing was a very. Like, it was a really specific thing. Like, I was on a talk show, so I was like myself, but I wasn't myself. Most of my friends were auditioning to play roles, and they were traveling all over just. And playing the character, and then they would go and they would do another role.

So there's, like, a separation there. Yeah.

And it was their job, and it was their career. But I think that what I definitely saw. I saw a couple of things when I was an actor that I didn't really like about the lifestyle. Number one, there was a really big scarcity mindset, and all of my friends were unbelievably competitive with each other. And I don't live in that world now, but I did then, and it was a mindset of, whoa, if she gets that role, that means there's less roles for me. So I need to do everything in my power to make sure she doesn't get that role. Or, like, if somebody got a role, they would. Or if I got something, like, my friends would pretend to be happy for me, and then they'd talk about me behind my back, or they would go audition for the same part behind my back or try to go to sabotage my situation. Like, it was very competitive. It was very cutthroat. It was very scarcity. There's not enough parts to go around. There's not enough money to go around. There's not enough anything to go around. And it's very much of, like, a wait to pick me kind of a mindset. It's very passive. And I'm not. I'm not saying that this is everybody at all. I'm saying that this was my experience in the friend group that I was in and the people that I was talking to. So that was part of it that I didn't really like as well, But I was so wrapped up in it that I didn't even realize that there was a whole other world that I wasn't experiencing, which is the world that I experience now, that when I started dipping my toe in, actually felt crazy. Like, oh, wait, people can support you and actually really want the best for you. That's wild. Wait. Someone actually referred me to somebody else they wanted me to do well. I'm like, that's the weirdest thing ever. But then once I started to realize that this is, like, when you lift other people up, they also lift you up, and it's this law of reciprocity. And it's this beautiful thing that can happen when you help other people and they want to help you. And, and once I started tasting that, I was like, there's no way I'm going back to another world of or way of thinking.

It's so true. And it's. That's exactly what I love about podcasting. For one, we talked about, we both, I mean, you have a podcast as well, and so it's guesting, having your own. It's all this like this ultimate networking way to share each other's, Express our ideas for one, but then share each other's ideas. The way I like to see it is like I'm cultivating the people that I feel should have that. And I want to give a ripple effect too, because I know that's going to affect other people down the line. But it's up to me to bring the right people in. But it's like people are so open to sharing and as long as we can find our voice and figure out what our message is, our story, what's unique about us. Obviously there's things that you got to do before that. And I'd love to deconstruct some of this with you, like your process from what you just described, going VH1, you know, Broadway and all that, and to a point of actually expression of your own true identity, your beliefs and being great about that, you know, feeling great about it. So I feel like that's the biggest hang up for most people. And then when you experience it, it's like that momentum builds and like I said, the referrals start happening. You're like, who are you? Like, this is a new life now. And yeah, I would love your thoughts on that. Maybe like prefacing kind of. Because I know that's a big thing with being seen is we got to express, you know, and it's really understanding what our own stories are. So how do we get to that point?

Yeah, in the book I talk about finding your lean in story and it literally is just that a lot of people come to me like I don't even know what to talk about, Jen. I'm not interesting. And I'm like, well, I. And how do you find out all those stories that are really interesting? Because we're usually a lot more interesting than we even realize because the stuff stories that we have are so close to us because we lived them. We often don't think they're that interesting. So I never, ever, ever used to want to talk about the Fact that I was on VH1, I was like. Especially when I shifted out of that and I started building other companies and doing other things, I was like, no one needs to know that I was on this show. No one needs to know. It has nothing to do with anything. Nobody cares. That is, like, a part of my life I want to erase. But I learned a very important lesson, and the story is actually in the book. When I first started getting media for my business that I created after that metal show, when I cleaned my life back up. So when I picked everything back up, I decided that I wanted to get into fitness. I love working out. I love helping people. I was like, this is something that I do really well, that I love to do. It just feels good to me. Let's start. And I was like, I'm gonna become a personal trainer. And that was the first step into that. But before I knew it, I had built an actual company in, like, the online coaching space. And I had personal trainers working for me all over Manhattan, and I thriving. And I had built a business, and I started to learn about PR and marketing and how to get myself out there. And one of the first really big TV placements that I got was on this show called Life and Living by Joanna Gagas. And it was this show where she would interview, like, experts. And I was so excited because I was getting my first, like, TV segment, and I thought it was going to be all about, like, how to work out and eat healthy. Like, so I wore my workout outfit. I thought I was going to teach her how to do squats or something while they filmed us. I thought it was going to be so, like, you know, on the Today show, where they bring on the fitness expert and everybody works out together. That's what I thought it was. So I, like, show up in my Lululemon outfit and my, like, neon green sneakers, and she's sitting there in this beautiful dress and heels, and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm definitely not going to be working out with this woman. What is. Oh, shit. So I sit down, and she immediately goes into interviewing me about my transition from being on that metal show to now being a celebrity fitness trainer. And when the tv, when the interview came out, the headline was how Jennifer Leah Gottlieb went from hosting a show on VH1 to becoming a fitness trainer. Whatever, something like that. And that's when I realized that the Lean in story, the story that made people lean in and pay attention, the thing that was interesting about me was the thing that made Me unique and different. There's 5 million. That's not an accurate number. There's a lot of people out there that talk about health and fitness. Fitness a lot. But there's not a lot of people out there that talk about health and fitness that have interviewed ACDC and Metallica and that went from having that experience and that background to transitioning. That's an interesting story. And when I, when that clicked for me, I was like, whoa. That's the thing that people want to know about. That's an interesting part about me that makes me unique. So I ask people to think about what are those stories that you tell that people physically lean in when you're talking about it? So, like, there's two things people do when you talk to them. There's actually three. But the two that I want to talk about are one, they do the meerkat. Like if, let's say you're, You're. If you're on Zoom, it'll look like this. They start googling something. They start looking somebody like the meerkat. They're doing something else while they're talking to you. Yep. Or you're at a party. Or they're just looking for somebody else. More interesting to talk to. If you're talking about. Yes. They pick up their phone. You're clearly not telling them a lean in story because if you were, then they would be paying attention. Then you know what happens when you say something and then someone goes like this.

What?

Wait, really? Wait a minute. Tell me more. No, no, really. Those are the stories that you need to pull out and you need to tell more. Don't, like, judge your stories by your own judgment. Judge your stories by the reaction that other people have to them. Cause it's not about you. When you're building a brand online, people get really wrapped up in the fact that it's about what they look like and what they sound like and what they enjoy and what story they want to tell. You will build the best brand when you tell the stories that other people are interested in, or when you provide the value that other people need, or when you answer the questions that other people have, or when you make your stuff all about just focusing on providing value to other people. Not only will it build your brand and make you connect with your audience deeper, because they're like, oh, my God, how did she know I was thinking about that? Or that's so fascinating and interesting. That helped me today, but it will also make you a lot more confident because we don't get nervous when we're just focusing on helping other people and telling stories to other people. We get nervous and we get insecure when we're worried about what we sound like and what we look like, and if our stories are good enough and if we're good enough.

Bingo. I think that's the. I know that's the biggest thing that got me out of my own head, and it goes back to what I just said earlier, is knowing that I'm the key person, the one that cultivates the right person or the. The person that I want to give that ripple to, you know, and I know that I control that. And, yeah, there's solo episodes. I can express my own story and all that that's always interwoven in. But in this role, I know that I have that ripple, and it's. It's up to me. And we all have that power through building brands. And typically, it's not done alone. Like you were saying, it's.

It's.

It's connecting with others and actually sharing with those stories. Expressing. And then, yeah, it's this interesting wave that happens, like a flywheel of just awesomeness. I don't know. It's like. Because I think that's where the feedback comes in, and then it builds momentum. As long as we're listening for feedback from our audience. Yeah, sometimes it's tough, though, right? Because like, podcasting and getting that social media, you're not getting the actual feedback. So are there ways that you're looking for that? Obviously, we can do that here on video, you know, by telling stories. But I'm thinking once we start sharing stories out there, are there ways that you get feedback from your audience, let's say, more than, like, the person here that you're chatting with?

I get feedback from my audience every single day. All I have to do is open up my phone and look at the engagement on one of my reels, look at the engagement on one of my posts, look at the comments, look at the DMs, look at the things that people are saying as a result of putting some piece of content out there. I don't have anybody manage my social media. I manage it all myself. I do that very strategically. It's not a scalable activity at all, but I do it because I want to see the feedback. I want to see what people are commenting on, what people are engaging with, what people are sharing, what questions people are asking me. I go live on Instagram every single morning.

Wow.

Every day. I put my makeup on, and I go live Monday through Friday. No matter what, non negotiable. And I answer questions. This morning I got so many great questions that I was screenshotting all of the questions. I was like, hold on, guys, I'm screenshotting these because I can't answer them all right now. But they're such great questions. I'm going to create content about these questions later. That's how I get feedback immediately. And if you don't get people commenting and engaging, look and see. Like, how many views did that post get? If it got five views, maybe that's not a story that people are interested in. If you posted something, holy crap. That got a lot of views in the first five minutes. Whoa. I think that the algorithm likes this. I think that this is something that people like to watch. So I'm going to create another video like this. I'll ask my team to go in and I'll be like, show me which reels got the most engagement in the past week. And let's redo topics about whatever I talked about in that reel. Let's do another one. And I'm just basically listening. I'm listening. I'm not creating what I want to create. I'm creating what people want to hear.

I love it. Yeah, no, that's a perfect answer because it's direct feedback. I love Instagram for that way. And really any social that I guess your audience is hanging out on. But the going live thing, you're literally generating feedback consistently every day. You're not waiting for it. You're not just posting a reel and ghosting or automating that whole thing. Cause you said like, it's. It's because I've forgotten this at times as well. Social media. It's like, sometimes I'll go on these. Like, you know, I don't want to go on there. Or like, or certain platforms or you have your team post. But that's a connection. It's an extension of us. It's a human connection done through different means. But if we're out there being strategic, like you are showing up, expressing that, but also listening and asking for feedback, then it's just gonna refine your own value that you're putting out to them every single day.

If you're trying to build a brand online and you're trying to build an audience and you're trying to garner attention. There is, I think, that there's no more important activity than being all up in your social media and connecting with people and talking to people. There is no more important activity if that is your goal. It's not your goal. It's okay. But if it's your goal. So I do intentionally spend time being social on social media. Not just consuming stuff. I can get into trouble when I start to do that. But creating, creating connection, creating content, creating conversation, creating on social. If you spend time doing that, there's no way that you can fail when building your brand because you're going to be actually connecting with human beings that are going to then reciprocate that connection with commenting and engaging on your posts.

Love it. Yeah. And that goes back to creating in general. Right. Is if we're consuming, just consuming content, consuming social media to consuming our own thoughts about ourselves and what we put out into the world. I mean, that's not going to lead you to great places. Typically it's great to learn and all that and get feedback, but we need to express and create. Like you were saying, it's put things out there, test new ideas and speak to people and ask for that feedback. Big announcement here. The Hustle and Flowchart podcast is now the newest podcast on the HubSpot Podcast Network Network. They're the audio destination for business professionals. It's exactly why I joined the network, to expand what we've been doing here. Making business the fuel for your life, not the stressor or the burnout. We want to build fun and make business a big part of who we are and our expression out to others. So you're going to expect a lot more. More curated guests that sync up with this mission. Also, more topics and episodes from me. And I want you to keep listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Go check out other shows on the HubSpot podcast network@HubSpot.com podcastnetwork so, yeah, any. Any thoughts on that? Because that's. And I, and I want to get into like, crafting what that can look like for people that might be struggling at this point. So are there any tips or tricks and ways to kind of form those messages out there to get that momentum going?

Well, getting back to just clarity, like clarity comes from failure. Clarity comes from taking action, doing it, and it not working. That's where it comes from. I mean, yes, it can come from doing something and it working and winning. It's like, oh, okay, great. I got that great positive feedback. And that always feels good, but I always get the most clarity from doing something and it not working. So we need to be brave enough to try and take action even if we're not completely ready in order to create the things that we're supposed to be be creating because often I think that people are just waste like they're spending a lot of time. And I know this because I have a lot of conversations with people and I am totally, completely guilty of doing this too in my life. And still to this day scrolling and comparing like my beginning chapter of something to somebody else's chapter 20 or somebody else's finished product or the thing that they've been working on for 20 years and I didn't even know they were working on it for 20 years. But I'm like, why is mine not like that right now, today? Right. Like why? But you don't see all the failure that went into that. You don't see all the mess ups. You don't see all the step by step processes. You don't see all the no's, all the rejections that they had to get in order to get there. And then so we can feel very, very alone in our trial and error. That happens when you start something new. If we're just comparing to the highlight reel of everybody else when we're not seeing the step by step process. That's one of the reasons why I go live every day to show people what's really going on. Yes.

My.

You might go to my Instagram and see this beautiful highlight reel and that's great. I think that your Instagram page, your TikTok page, your LinkedIn page, your Facebook page, that is definitely your brand's resume. It is, absolutely. And I think that it's a great place for it to be. You should be as authentic as you possibly can, but showcase your wins. But I also, for me, I want to be able to deeply connect with my audience and I want to make sure that they know that I'm getting rejected daily, that I'm failing daily, that every day is not the happiest day in the world, that I'm using all of these mindset tools that I have. But sometimes they don't work and sometimes they do, right? That sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's easy, sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. But I'm a human just like them. And I think that that's really important to create that connection, that authentic connection with your community. Because that's what makes Ride or Die fans. That's what makes the type of audience that you want. That's what makes the type of audience that's gonna follow you and click and buy and sign up and go and show up and support and review and do all the things you want them to do. Forever, no matter what you're selling, because you've connected with them as a human being and you've created real, true community.

Yeah. And that's where. So these true fans, I think of that often. Like it. I feel like it simplifies things when you can figure out, well, for one, who is it that you're chatting to? Like, who's your ideal person? You know, there's all these avatar. Who's your target audience or target avatar. Great exercises to get to know people, but I feel like the best way is to talk with them, to have conversations, get that feedback, and then you realize, who are these super fans? These ones that. I don't need a million of them. I can have 100. I can have a thousand. It's the whole thousand true fans concept. What are your thoughts on that? And talking to individuals and, like, quality audience, one that really bonds with you. It sounds like you're cultivating every single day. The live people, People showing up live are probably those for you. Yeah. Speak about your thoughts on growing those.

Takes patience. And I hate. I am a New Yorker. I like immediate, instant gratification. I am fast. I like to go fast. I'm like, I want it now. I've had to develop an insane amount of patience when it comes to building community because that takes consistency. And I think that the reason that a lot of people don't build community and they want to, but they don't is because they're not. They don't. They're not patients patient enough to be able to put in the consistency that it really takes. All of the top podcasts that I've been on lately for the book, I'm like, how long have you been doing your podcast? All of them. Five years, seven years, eight years, 10 years, four years. Was it a huge hit when it first came out? No, it took me three years for it. Like, even. How long have you been doing this podcast?

Almost seven years. So you nailed it.

Seven years. How many downloads do you have now? Like, if you want to share, you don't have to share.

I mean, it's almost 2 million, and it's 550 episodes or something like that. So, I mean, like, it's a lot.

Yeah, but. So when you first started, were you, like, when is it going to, like, you had to put in the reps. You had to be consistent. You had to do episodes even when you felt like nobody was really listening. Oh, yeah, right.

Yeah, that was most of them. Until that breaking point or something.

Yeah, exactly. You got to do it until that happens. And I think a lot of people start, stop before that happens, because they don't have the patience. But I like to just focus on my acronym hope. That stands for Help One Person Every Day. And I think about the one person that might be listening, that needs my help that day. One person. I'm not trying to just talk to one person because that would be like, that would make me a shitty keynote speaker. If I was in it, like, had an audience and I was only talking to one person. And I'm like, oh, if I can only help one person, then I'm happy. No, I want to help everyone. But for me, I think about that one person when I'm giving my content or when I'm going live or when I'm going to put my phone up and I've got no makeup on and maybe I didn't sleep and I don't feel that great and I don't want to go live. But I think about, oh, my gosh, John. Okay, here's. John's the guy that comes on my life every single day. I know John. He dms me after every single time. Elena. I know her. She dm's me every single time. Thank you. That really helped me today. That was amazing. I think about those one, one human that if I don't go live that day, it's not even about me. It's about him. Like, I could help him. And that gets me to press the button regardless of how I feel. And that keeps me consistent and over time. Now, John, Elena, Farrah, all these people that join every single day, they're friends, they're all coming to my event next week. They go to dinner with each other. They, like, travel to see each other. They've created community from an Instagram live.

Right.

And so now it's not about me at all. But that didn't happen overnight. When I first started, it was like four people. Now it's like I have this whole community and it happened. I think I've been doing this now for a year, and it didn't start to really happen where people showed up regularly until like, six months out. But that's even still very fast for something. Like, I think it's more so, like, what you're talking about, like a really successful podcast, like seven years, and people want to start a podcast right now. I know. I talk to them all the time. They're like, I want my podcast to be, like, sponsored right away.

Yep. That's a common thing. Yep.

Right. Like, I want to monetize my Podcast immediately. Wait, what about all these people that have been doing their podcast for seven years and they've been putting the work in and no one's been listening and they've been investing in it and they haven't made any money and they've just been slowly building an audience and slowly showing up for them every single day or every single week for years and years and years and years and years. That's what it takes.

It's, it's true. And that's where it's, it's gotta be an extension of you. And that's what I've found to make something consistent. It's, it's gotta start here, you know, and what's our, what's our vision? Like what's your vision? You know, you listening and where do you want to take people on what's that journey and expressing what starts here with ourselves? But then that's, it's, it's going to be so it's, it's way more fun when you share that around. And then you start seeing these little, you know, it's like that just that just landed with that person or I got that email, that review, that comment. And then because you can get those fairly quickly and if you can use these little motivation points to get that, like I said, that flywheel spinning again, I mean that's, that's all the difference. And then it gets that confidence. It's kind of how it's helped for me. You know, you reach for bigger guests. Let's say you start asking for help, asking for more feedback, engaging more, maybe starting something new, Instagram lives or whatever. Maybe from there, maybe it's starting a podcast. However, which way you start, it's like you said, but sticking with like that one thing, what's that consistency, that thing that you can keep up for a while. What are some, like, where would you recommend people to start from your perspective? Obviously there's a lot of ways Instagram Live seems pretty low barrier. You got the.

No, that's, I mean, yeah, you don't want to start Instagram Live if you're self aware to know that you hate being on video. So the first thing I will. There is not one way to do anything. I would never tell a mass audience like this, that this is exactly how you should start because everybody has a different circumstance, everybody has different talents, everybody has different skills. So the first step is to be unbelievably self aware on what you're actually going to do. You want to stretch yourself, you want to do things that are a little bit outside your comfort zone. You want to grow, of course, but I want you to give yourself the lowest barrier to entry, to start. The most important thing is that you start. You can't create that flywheel, that confidence continuum, if you don't start. So what are you really great at and what do you like to do? Are you really great at written word? Are you really great at using ChatGPT to come up with amazing content? Use that. Are you really great at podcasting, at audio, at talking, but you don't want to be on camera? Fantastic. Do audio. Are you really great at video? And you love video so much. And that's the thing that you're the best at. Oh, my God. Do YouTube, do Instagram Live, do video reels. Are you really great at creating really cool videos using stock footage? Oh, my gosh, use that. There's so many amazing AI tools we can use today to create great content. Be self aware enough to know what you enjoy and what you're actually going to consistently stick to and what you're really good at. And start there. That's where you start. Because when you like, being consistent is difficult enough. So start being consistent, doing something that you like and that you're good at so you can produce content every single day. Once you've started to get that confidence that you're consistent enough to keep with the commitment you make with yourself, to consistently post every single day, you start to build some traction. Then I would recommend starting to leverage opa, which stands for other people's audiences. That is the fastest way to build an audience, because it's really, really hard to just organically build an audience just from posting online. It's very, very hard. The algorithm does not make that the easiest thing in the world. So you want to start to make relationships and collaborate with people to get in front of their audiences. Think about who has an audience of people that you would like to talk to. That people that are like, that's your ideal client. Oh, my gosh. Oh, holy shit. Joe has a whole audience of people that have been listening to him for seven years. And they're all content creators, they're entrepreneurs. That's perfect. That's the type of person I want to talk to. Let me build a relationship with Joe so maybe one day I could be on Joe's podcast. He can put me in front of his people, and that way I can get real audience members that actually want to listen to me and I have credibility because Joe introduced me to them. So you want to start making Those connections. And in the book, the third part is all about relationships and connections, because you cannot be seen without a community, without people, without opportunities, and opportunities come from humans. So that is so unbelievably important. Once you've gotten your consistency, you're posting in a way that feels good. You're doing it every day.

You.

You're starting to get featured on other people's pages. You're starting to get some, you know, like you're revving the engine. You've got some more confidence. Then stretch yourself a little more. How else can I be seen? Maybe you hated doing video, but now it's time. All right, I'm gonna do this scary thing, and you don't have to be fearless. The fear is not gonna go away. I do video every day, and I still get a little bit scared or nervous or imposter syndrome, or I'm like, oh, God, that really sucked. Or I don't really feel like doing that today. It doesn't have to be perfect. Just press the damn button. And the more that you do it, the more courageous you'll become.

That's it. I love it. It's so similar to what I kind of preach to the podcast folks, too, and business owners putting their voice out there. It's exactly the same. And when you start to find that consistency that you can build yourself and kind of control, you're building media, of course, I mean, that's credibility immediately. The fact that you have something of your own that you're displaying out there. But then when using other people's audiences, obviously, it's like podcasts, they're virtual stages. You get to select the exact stage you want to speak on. And as long as you're presenting yourself in a good way, a great way, and you did this perfectly beautifully, that most people, I would say a good 98% of people, when they're wanting to be on one of these virtual stages, any of them, it doesn't have to be podcasting. It could be a summit, let's say, or something else, even maybe a collab on an Instagram Live. You're not really setting that host up to say an easy yes to you. You're making them sometimes do a lot of that work and figuring out what are they great at, what are the topics that they want to speak about to my audience here, you came in with a full on press kit, but also a lot more. And it was very interesting. It was appealing. There's a lot of things you could do to basically make that yes happen. A lot Smoother than a lot of the folks that are pitching right now that I'm sure we both get all the time. Yeah. ChatGPT.

Yes.

ChatGPT is not great for some things.

There are ways not to pitch a hundred percent. But I found, like, listen, I was not this polished in the beginning, right? And in the beginning, it all stemmed. It all started from relationships, it all. And if you're starting from the beginning, I would not be cold pitching, especially if you're new to podcasting. I wouldn't be cold pitching the biggest podcast in the world and trying to just randomly get on these people shows that you don't know. I would spend lots of time relationship building and going for the lowest hanging fruit. Do you have someone like, get your feet wet, get your reps in? Do you know somebody that maybe doesn't have the hugest podcast in the world, but they're a friend of yours and you know them, go be on their podcast. Because the thing about pr, any kind of media, whether it's podcast, mainstream media, publication, anything, 20% of the value is the actual episode. 80% of it is what you do with it, how you amplify it, how you use it in. In your future press kits, in content that you create later, in the fact that you used it as a practice run. Maybe not a lot of people heard that actual podcast because it was a smaller one, but you've got the recording of that. You could snip it up, you could make it into. You could have it transcribed and you can make other content out of it, or you can just use that as listening to yourself, listening to the replay, giving yourself feedback, learning how to be interviewed, learning what you did right, what you did wrong. There were so many podcasts I did in the beginning that still live on the Internet today that I will listen to sometime soon. I will cringe, cringe, cringe. And I'm like, can we delete this from the Internet? But then I'm like, no, wait, sit on the Internet so people can see the chapter one. But it doesn't start at like having a beautiful press kit and doing it all perfectly. It starts with just getting on some shows of people that you know, like creating some, just doing the lowest hanging fruit to get the reps in. And you will eventually figure it out as you do. Clarity follows action.

Mm, yeah, it's staying in the game longer, that consistency. Get the reps in. I mean, that's. We have all the opportunities. And let's be honest, there's a ton of podcasts, more than Ever right now. So none of us have the excuse to not to get those reps in. Now, Jen, tell me about the book because this is coming out at time of this recording very, very, very soon. We mentioned it a lot here. Why did you write it? It seems like it's pretty obvious be seen, but tell me about what this is and what people are going to get from reading it.

So this book is actually perfect for your audience. But I do also love to tell everybody that the book is not just for someone that wants to build a brand. It's for somebody that wants to be seen, whether that's in your home Life, at your 9 to 5 job, in your experience on this planet where you're feeling like maybe you built a life or you're showing up as somebody that everybody else thought that you should be, but it's not true to who you are and you're unable to fully live the life that's fully expressed that you really want to live because you feel like you're hiding because you've been pretending for so long. And the first part of the book is all about tapping into who that really you really is. Because I found by screwing this up in a lot of ways is that when you show up as a person that is inauthentic to who you are and you build a brand based around something that is a lie, that's not you. Number one, it's exhausting to keep up. And number two, it'll eventually fall apart and you will eventually absolutely hate your brand or your business. So let's start off in a really good place where if you just start off being you, you're gonna actually repel people that aren't into you and you're gonna attract people that are into you. So you're gonna build an audience that you, you feel totally aligned with that you don't get exhausted talking to because you can just be yourself and then you can consistently evolve. I think that evolution is such an important part of your brand. We don't ever want to be stuck in a box. Because human beings evolve. They change. They evolve over time. And when you develop a brand that is based on who you really are, people are going to be following you for you, and they're going to be so excited to come on the journey with you of evolution. And the book also, it starts off.

All about being courageous enough to find the real you, but it evolves into being courageous enough to see who you want to be seen as. So you two point out, what do you want to build for Your life, who do you want to become? And then we go into being connected. What's the community that you need to build in order to get there? And then the final part of the book is all of my content strategies and actual tactical tools that you need to build a brand. And then it's all of my stories are trickled in there of how I did it wrong and then how I did it right so that you don't have to do it wrong.

Well, that's nice. Thanks for sharing that. Appreciate that. Because it's now more than ever like you said with even hockey players, you know, in school, like whatever age. I mean there's a brand for all of us. All of us are a walking brand if we like it or not. It's just the reality of the life, life we all live right now. And there's a place for that brand to live. And it doesn't have to be to millions of people. It could just be to, like you said, the right audience that the people who are going to connect with you, with your brand once you figure out how to put it out there. And we all should because it feels good and you're going to help other people. Let's be honest, it's at the end of the day you're helping others. So. Yeah, Jen, so be seen Book. Where can people get that? Do you have a special place you want them to go to? Let us know.

You can get it anywhere. But go to be book.com, all the retailers are there and you can get a special gift from me if you put your little order confirmation in the opt in. But just go get it anywhere. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, all the places. And don't just get one for you, get one for a friend as well.

Yeah, sharing is caring. Come on, help it out. Yeah. And then, and then your business as well because you, you are training and coaching so many people and it sounds like similar folks. We have very similar message which is rad. And again, I always love to share. Even if, if you don't like what I'm doing, go to gin. You know, it's like let's, let's share this around. So tell me about what you're doing there. Kind of give me a little recap of how you, yeah. What you help people with specifically. I know it's all an extension of basically what we've been chatting about.

100%. Well, we help entrepreneurs and business owners build profitable brands online and we do that through teaching mindset, money marketing and media and also wrap it all up with. We've really been diving into artificial intelligence lately because that's not going anywhere. So we're teaching people how to build profitable brands and making it easy and scalable. Like you said, if you have a business, you must have a virtual presence. And you must have a virtual presence that shares who you are, what you do, what your values are. Because somebody, if they're debating on if they're going to work with you or somebody else or they're going to buy your product or somebody else's product, the first thing that they're going to do is they're going to go to the Internet to see who has a more credible brand. That's the first thing they're going to do. And it doesn't matter whose product is better, whose service is better. It doesn't matter. They're going to pick the one that they like based on the online presence. So what our company does is through our mastermind, our trainings, our challenges, our events, which by the time this airs, our big event in Dallas is going to be over. But we teach people how to do that and how to do it in a way that's authentic to you and who you are and your essence and what you believe in so that you can have a brand that you absolutely love forever and ever.

Right on. And it should be forever. Right? Like, we don't need to be hop skipping around like different brands all the time. I've done that for a little bit, but it's like, stick with that. If you could build a brand around you and your voice and your message and all that stuff, it's going to feel good and that's just going to last. So it'll become easier and easier. Yes. And we evolve.

This is what you said.

I mean, this shows evolved probably like every single year of those seven years.

It's amazing.

I love it. Yeah, it's great. I learned more.

You're like Lady Gaga.

Oh, yeah. You know it's going to apply here. I should. Yeah. So, yeah, so that's super connector media. Right. Is your. Is your brand. So, yeah, go check out Jen there. Of course, everything's in the show. Show notes. And Jen, I can't wait to get my hands on the copy of the Be seen to go check that out as well. Y', all, thank you so much for. For this and I'm happy that we're. We're sharing the same kind of message. Very similar. So appreciate what you're doing.

I love it. This was so fun. Thank you, Joe.

All right, all right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live if you need to do the work. But you know, work can be fun and it should be fueling for your life. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list writing a review or whatever it might be. Everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, and I will see you next time.