Ignite Your Creative Flame: The Art of Identity, Inspiration and Artistic Flow With Dave Munter

I'm like, on the sand with the surfboard and I'm like trying to polish and I'm like, what's the right surfboard? Right? Meanwhile, multiple amazing waves have been passing through and I'm just like sitting on the sand thinking, like, well, I don't know if this is the right surfboard and is this the right color for me? Meanwhile, the color doesn't actually affect how well you ride that wave.

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hustle mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger. So that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy. Hello, we are back. This episode is going to be another fun one. And I have my friend Dave Muntner. He also goes by Davey Harris on Spotify. He's a songwriter musician over there. And he's also in the marketing copywriting space, runs an agency called Renaissance Messaging. And this guy is fascinating. So in this episode, we cover a lot of different spectrums. So we talk about copywriting and marketing and doing that whole thing. And we also talk about personal development and how music and songwriting kind of relates to everything there. It's kind of this lump bag here. And really on the music side and songwriting, it's very fascinating because it goes to really expressing ourselves and that comes out in business, comes out in copywriting, of course, and, and how we carry ourselves, how we show ourselves off to the world. And that's where Dave, he really talks about in depth a lot of ways of how he's navigated that and how he's also collaborated with some amazing organizations and produces music and is starting to release and actually just as of yesterday, released a new song on Spotify. I'll make sure to link it inside of the show notes. So make sure you go to hustleandflowchart.com and find this episode. So this is going to be a great one. And Dave also helps people write songs and create these, these songs. Even if you don't have a background in music. So he'll talk about that, of how you can join him. And again, and that's at the end of the episode, but I want to just point that out here because it's unique, it's fascinating. I haven't heard of this before, and I think Dave is, like, the perfect guy to do that because of his background and experience and the fact that he does it actively every day. So check out the show notes for all the links and how to contact Dave and enjoy this one. I think it'll have a lot of pops of insights and different ways to look at situations and ways that you might be navigating your life in business and how music and songwriting, or just writing in general, too, can really open up some things for you. And remember to share your art. Share it. Don't just hoard it to yourself. That's not fair. All right? And I'm telling myself that as I look at my guitar right now. Okay, so let's go chat with Dave. See, Dave, we are live. We're not live.

We are live. You and I are live. But someone may be listening to this in the future.

That's. That's accurate. So we're doing this, man. We're finally doing this thing. We've been chatting a while, man. Happy that you're here.

We had. We had the podcast before the podcast.

We did a few of them, man. Yeah.

Yeah.

Got to give a shout out to our boys, Trevor and Mike, who connected us. And, you know, we've always. It seems like we've been circling around similar, you know, characters and business and maybe music, too, and. Yeah, it's going to be fun because. Yeah, it's just been like. It's a natural progression. It's like, podcast. Let's go share this with others.

I like how you said we've been circling around different characters, you know, as opposed to people.

Yeah.

Because I think once you've really established yourself in any arena or area, you. You transform your identity from person to a character slash caricature. But it actually is a sign of, like, you've done something right, that you. You have a distinct Persona out there. So why do you think it's a compliment?

Yeah, I guess it is. Because, like, my brain goes to. Is it a mask? Are we hiding behind something? It can be caricature, big nose, big ears. I don't know.

Yeah.

How does that show? Because we were just talking about that, that there's these identities we play, you know, and I think you're so unique. And the more I get to know you, and I'm sure I'll learn a lot more in this one, because there's a lot of surprises hiding behind Oliver. And, yeah, it's, like, introduced to you as well. A man first, you know, the group, but then it's like, hey, this. You know, Dave's in marketing. Dave does copywriting. All right, cool. You know, that's like, Trevor. Mike kind of paired us up, I think, in this, you know, in the group that. That we're part of. And then quickly it was like, oh, music. Holy shit, Dave. Dave is also Davey and has an amazing. You just have, I think, multiple albums, but a ton of songs, music videos. They're catchy. That's why I was, like, a couple minutes late to even join here. I was like, I got caught up in your music video. Sorry.

Yeah. If you want to be late to something, listen to my music.

It's a great excuse. True. I guess. Where do we start? Like, where do you want to start with is.

Yeah, well, I. One of the things is considering what. What I can share from my perspective, that would be helpful for you or for an individual listening. And, you know, perhaps we can start with the conversation we had right beforehand, and it had to do with character, caricature, Persona, and I was sharing that I am not going through an identity crisis, but more so identity discovery, and. And perhaps even just choosing with full alignment that identity. So. So I've been on other podcasts and. Or had other interviews where I'm Dave the CEO, copywriter, executive, and then I've also had other conversations and. Or interviews where I'm Davey the musician. And neither of those actually feel very authentic to me because you're. You're. You're really leaning in on one version of yourself, but you're not necessarily tapping the reservoir of the other parts of who you are. So this is a fun conversation where, you know, I'm more so just, you know, spilling all of the different goo behind the masks and, you know, seeing what comes through. And I think this will be helpful for me, perhaps helpful for you, and helpful for any individuals who listen from the future.

Yeah, man. I think it's. Yeah. Because we all have these different elements, and. And it is like we're a melting pot, and it's up to us if we want to, how. However we present ourselves. But I feel like. Like, what you do in songwriting relates to what you do in copywriting, I would imagine. And it's telling a story. It's how you communicate everything. I would imagine so maybe it's that, like. Do you want to start with, like, how did that come to be for you? Because I know that's a big. I think that's, like, where your heart truly is, is that writing element.

Yeah. I'll give my life story in 60. 60 seconds. I'm time. I'm time blind. So that could be 60 minutes, but I think it's gonna be 60 seconds. So I had been drawn to music from an early age, and I think that was from my parents being like, yo, you should play piano. I wanted to play any other instrument, but the piano was the piano we had in the house. And so that was the one that I would learn from. And very quickly, I realized that I hated reading music. And I didn't really like playing other people's music so much as creating my own random stuff. It was, you know, I was told it was kind of like a weirder version of elevator music that I was.

Just playing on the piano, but a little out there.

Yeah, yeah. And it was kind of messy, but it was interesting. And, you know, it's almost like, where do you go from here? You're just writing your own little melodies. And is it more so just a way to relax? Because I would use it as, you know, for therapeutic reasons. Like, I'd go to my piano and play whatever the hell I was playing. And then whatever bothered me at school that day or something else, it lost its power, and I just kind of fell into that space. So that was. That was the use of piano. And then, I don't know, kind of put down the music with. And went to college and became. Went into creative writing. Because I, you know, I thought that would be, like, an interesting field. I liked to write and create. Right. And then it was only, you know, I joined a band. And that was really exciting. That's actually the shirt, the tins. And that was my focus in life after that point. For the next 10 years, it was being in a band as the drummer of this band, because my dream was always to be a drummer. Didn't necessarily connect the dots of being a songwriter as much and also didn't necessarily think I was a singer. Like, I. My highest aspiration and dream was, man, I wonder what it'd be like if I could sing. And I'd listen to some of my favorite music growing up, and even, you know, artists like the Beatles or Led Zeppelin or, at the time, Pearl Jam was really cool. And I was like, I wonder what it would be like if I could sing. And then I would. I Try to. To sing to other artists and songs and hear my own voice and be like, man, I sound horrible. Like, I guess, you know, but. But still like that wish, like, what if I could? And, you know, throughout that journey, took song lessons, whatever else, singing lessons. Never, never felt super confident. But I'm just, like, kind of flashing forwards a lot. I entered into the digital marketing space. Cause they, you know, I first went into personal development, and they. They said that, like, personal development's the gateway drug for entrepreneurship. And so as I was more discovering myself and, you know, what I could do, I would be like, oh, I want to be more entrepreneurial. And then that led to the arena of marketing, and I explored SEO and other realms of marketing and realized copywriting was a really cool space to land in because I was able to share storytelling and getting clear on somebody's message and knowing that, like, simplicity sells, and then also working with thought leaders and influencers and getting clear on what their core message is. So again, I'm just kind of, you know, shifting and giving a very skewed narrative right now. But it gets the job done. I think of where we're at today is almost a blend of the learning of the importance of lyrics and copywriting with the importance of the power of music and magic and. Yeah, so today I wear multiple hats. 1. Running a marketing firm with multiple writers and designers and creatives, which is really cool. And that's had its ups and downs and still figuring out that journey, and then also being a musician, writing my own music, and that's been fun. I'm now committed to releasing a song at the greatest intervals of six weeks apart, like, from now, indefinitely. I'm sitting on so many songs. Like, it's really. Which is one of those things about perfectionism versus procrastination of writing a lot of music. Like, the last song I released was in January, and I'm sitting on 30 to 50 nearly completed songs. And then you're like, what do I. You know, my ego is like, I don't want to release a song now. And then no one hears it. So I'm like, I'll save it for the right moment. But there is no right moment. And then what happens is, like, months and months go by, and you're like, oh, well, all that's happened is I didn't release this thing because I'm too precious over it. And so I love the space for my little monologue here of figuring myself out.

Yeah, but.

But, yeah. So where we're at now, I committed to releasing my Songs and building momentum in that area. And I always want to say, like, oh, this is the time where I'll figure out who I am. And this is the perfect alarm. Like, I am this musician, you know, because you'll have different people that tell you this is who you are, you know, based on what they're hearing. Or I am this person. And that never felt true. Like, I'd like to share. There's the saying of putting the mess. Your. Your mess is your message. I. I've been referred to as a bizarro version, like, of my own savior. So I say I put the mess in Messiah for myself. And. And, yeah, so I'd say I'm continuously this goo. And as opposed to attempting to be somebody else, it's more of like, I'm a fucking shapeshifter.

Yeah.

You know, like, I. It's hard for me to say anything else. And so all I could do is have different spaces of like, I'm going to kick ass and go all in on this one area. And that was. So that. That's been cool. But the final piece here is I've been writing songs, becoming an amplifier for certain individuals and causes, and that's been something. So it's like taking the. What I've learned from copywriting and messaging and applying that to music and attempting, you know, like, I wrote this song, the Penguin Dance.

Yeah, it's catchy, man. Yeah, the Penguin Dance.

Asoc, the Antarctic and Southern Ocean Coalition. I wrote a song about honeybees. The song I'm releasing next on June 6th is a song for the empowered woman. It's called the League. And a lot of these songs are echoing insights from extraordinary people. And so that's. That's a fun component, I want to say. Like, all of these things fit perfectly together. Maybe they do, but that is my current mess in the. In the journey.

The puddle of the mess. Yeah. And there's something special with sharing that mess, like you said. And like, I know I held a lot of ideas for so long on this podcast, knowing that this is a distribution center, you know, outlet for me and for others. Like, if I'm not sharing, then it's like, I know there's some relations not happening. That connection with the listener. And same with music. I mean, and copy. Like all this stuff, it's all just release it. And it's not going to be perfect, but we can build. And it reminds me of a buddy of mine. He's. He was on the show a long time ago. His name is Ori Bengal. I don't know if you know him. He's. You'd love the guy. I mean, yeah, you. Yeah, look him up and people just love him because of personality and. But he releases a piece of art every single day. And he's done that for, shoot, I don't know, many years now. And it's like thousands and thousands of pieces. And you just see the evolution of this art turn into like, pretty basic stuff to now like sculptures and crazy rent and like, you're just like, what the. And it's all through daily practice and releasing that and sharing it and getting feedback. Probably not like, you know, asking for it, but you're just putting it out there. I'm like, man, there's something magical and just doing that. Yeah.

And it takes certain degree of courage.

Yeah.

And I'm like that individual that some days I feel super empowered. I'm like, I want to release it all, anything. Even these half finished song ideas. Let's go. I want to share the process. That's interesting. And then the next day I'm like, cowering and like, what did I do? Why did I. You know, it's so embarrassing. And then realizing most people don't even care. And if you're able to catch someone's attention in any which way, it's most likely going to benefit them. So my higher self is. Was speaking just then.

Yeah, yeah. We all have those. Those selves though, you know, and you. There was something that you said. Simplicity sells. And you're like copywriting. That's definitely accurate, you know, as a copywriter and I would imagine even as a songwriter as well. And, like, is there. How do you battle that, like, to keep it simple when you probably have so many ideas, especially with music, then you're like layering on that, you know, the actual notes and instruments on top of song or, you know, lyrics that you write.

Yeah. I'm like that person that gets. Gets an opportunity to be aware of a lot of things and then may or may not make any changes based on that awareness. What I mean by that is, you know, simplicity sells. And if you look at some of the strongest iconic music brands that are out there, there is an aura in an essence that is pure and potent. And with my own Persona, caricature, character, brand, you know, for Daviaris, I would say right now it's very sloppy and it's not actually simple. And the way I write songs is not actually simple. And the songs I want to share and release are not actually simple. And so that. That is the dichotomy or the duality of this understanding marketing and then being like, okay, now let's apply this to art. And then the. Every time that I'm like, off a little bit or feel like I'm sacrificing something that, you know, I think this could be ego or it could be my higher self, you know, but, like, sacrificing this piece of integrity because you're like, oh, I want to serve somebody else, versus, like your own muse or that higher intent, things get cloudy. So at least right now the phase is more of a trust of, you know, I'm that goo and not necessarily attempting to shape it too much and, you know, I guess hoping that the right people can connect to that, whoever those are, because obviously, you know, your audience. It's a lot easier to write a song when I'm doing songs for different individuals. It's. I can almost like super microscopically tailor a song to a particular cause or person or whatever else, and then it works in that space. And then as you know, Davey Harris or whatever else, it becomes more of a. I don't. These two songs don't quite make sense together, like in the same landscape. And. And, you know, I've shared with you that I have, you know, 30 to 50 other songs, and they're quite different. You know, the ones that. That will be released. That has been maybe some hesitation on my part of, well, is this too confusing? Or if someone likes one thing, will they like the other thing? Or. And mostly it doesn't fucking matter. It's more of just releasing it, you know. So my new presence practice is giving myself daily lobotomies where I'm like, oh, this is a moment where I'm thinking too much and let me just, like, take my little scissors and like, cut around that thought and then have it evaporate.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Is that like a visual thing that you are, like a. Yeah, like.

Like, you know, neuro linguistic programming you're doing yourself. That may or may not work out. Yeah. Because they say, like, in sales, right. You sell something and then as you keep talking, you, like, buy it back, right?

Yep.

And it's the same thing with your own psychology of, like, overthinking to the point of, you know, paralysis by analysis. And, you know, you, I think, are. I wouldn't say you're an overthinker, but you're an active thinker. Right. And most likely a lot of individuals listening here are active thinkers. And that can be a version of overthinking to the point of actually, you have you have an excess of thoughts that are now just sapping energy and preventing you from taking that next step. And so, you know, even. Even this conversation is more of like, claiming the momentum and knowing that for me, that's the, that's like the wave for the surfboard. You know, you. You can keep going. The more waves you have, the more you can surf. And I think I'm at a point almost right now where I. I'm like, on the sand with the surfboard, and I'm like, trying to polish, and I'm like, what's the right surfboard? Right. Meanwhile, multiple amazing waves have been passing through, and I'm just like sitting at the. On the, on the sand, just thinking like, well, I don't know if this is the right surfboard and is this the right color for me?

Yeah.

Meanwhile, the color doesn't actually affect how well you ride that wave. I like to use surfing analogies because it makes me pretend that I'm a surfer. In reality, I'm not. And this is one thing. My, My profile picture at one point, Facebook, back in the day, was me holding a surfboard and looking super cool. And, you know, some people were like, wow, I didn't know you surfed. And like, sharing their surfing stories. And I was like, yeah. When? It was, in fact, the one day I ever surfed in my life and.

Before the embarrassing experience of like, trying to get on the surfboard and falling off or whatever. But I had a moment where I looked really cool and was surfing with the person. She was a photographer. And so I was like, I got a good shot. And that's just more of the Persona.

Yeah.

Inauthenticity that is fun to identify and laugh.

I feel like most people have that, like, we can all relate to those moments and those things, those like, maybe snapshots of what we thought we are or how we present ourselves. And it was probably an idea, just like anything is. And you talk about the wave. And I've been listening to and reading some Jordan Peterson stuff, and there's. There's this audio that I've heard him say is like, you are not the wave, but you can ride that wave. And this is like how he frames it to himself. When he's talking to thousands of people or whatever, he's like, they're not here. For me, it's because there's something that's relating and it's like music. There's like, connecting. So don't take it as like an ego thing. Like, hahaha, look at me. It's like, no, you're just providing, like, your channel for this thing, the momentum. And so, like, you're not the wave, but, like, go ride the fucking wave, you know, and do your best on that wave. So if it's an idea. Yeah. Lobotomize that thing. Maybe capture it if it's good, if you feel like it's good enough, I guess, and do something with it. Maybe write that song, write that headline for sales page that you've been freaking mulling over. You want to split test? Yeah. Like just. Just do it and do it to an extent and then stop talking. You know, it's like the sales call. Do the pitch. Shut up.

Yeah. And I guess that's one thing that pops up as you're. You're sharing that, which there are so many lessons and gifts from doing. Marketing, you know, the ready, fire, aim approach and testing and not making silly assumptions, you know, not working on one campaign for two years before actually sharing it. Especially knowing how the landscapes, you know, in this world change so quickly. But so with music and with art, there's that other dance of, you know, high. Like, there's this concept of high art or true art or whatever, different terms for it. And like, someone was sharing like, the pyramids were high art. Right. It's this almost version of, like, you know, it stands the test of time. And for those. Those are the things you don't split test because you're like, it's so true and so powerful and potent.

Can't question it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm sharing that. Not to share that I have any answers or whatever else, but more so that is a duality space I'm currently hanging out in and. And figuring out and navigating.

Yeah, it's interesting, man. But that's the being human, I guess, and being a creative and one that knows how to publish and, you know, share art maybe at scale where, you know, you can get a lot of feedback, especially if you ask for it and if that's what you were intending for. And yeah, it must be interesting with music, too, especially with spanning so many genres, testing, you know, collaborating with so many different people, organizations. Yeah, it's like you're not. You're gonna get all sorts of input if that's what you were seeking. And yeah, that could totally take you off of your own wave, you know, like the thing that is actually you, whatever that you is, you know, and it could stop the flow of great ideas and future creations.

Yeah, I think that's actually a really good point. I'LL be reflecting on later of because I'm such a an accomplished surfer that there's all the different waves in the ocean and some of them are really tiny and some are like the big one. And you may be riding tiny waves thinking that they're the biggest ones. And it's like once you ride that wave, you ride it until you stop when there could be a bigger one. So a question that popped up for you just because it'd be interesting to ask you for sure. You being both a creative and artist and then also a marketing maven, among many other things. And so has there ever been a time where you've created, you know, something that's creative or artistic? And it was. You didn't think about it as though, oh, I'm going to test this. But more so in your gut you were like, like this feels right. Like this is the wave that I'm gonna ride, at least to the short. Like I'm curious if you've ever had that experience with something.

Yeah, I mean something it's timely now because I just about to release it today as of this recording and it's relating to my business in this podcast is creating this AI chatbot around the show, is packaging up the 500 plus episodes into this conversational chatbot that someone can ask questions or solve a problem, get specific answers and like a, a thing back and forth. And I've any podcaster do this or someone who's sitting on a ton of content, like as a creator really do it in this way. And I thought about it and I just figured out a way to create it quickly and I shot a video that I didn't overthink and the editing shitty and I know I can spend way more time on it. Didn't try to overanalyze copy, but I am pushing it out there and it's purely for feedback and it's also to share with others. Hey, here's what's possible. And that's, yeah, that's, that's at least the first thing that comes to mind right there. And I think it's going to help a lot of people. I think the reason like that got me to do it and to push it out there and whereas like if it's something else where I feel like it's not going to help a lot of people, even though like helping one person is enough, even if it's myself, you know, to publish it, I think it motivated me more to get it out there. I think that's, that's what comes to Mind for me and so many other things that, like, I have not acted on for the opposite reason, I guess. But good question. And that's one I'll reflect on more because I know there's a lot of things that. Like you sitting on the sand, deciding which one am I going to do today? And it'll drive me freaking nuts.

Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely a version of the person just getting sunburned sitting on the sand, just, like, having a collection of surfboards.

Yep. The quiver. Yeah. I mean, cool. Yeah. He doesn't know to ride a single one. Yeah. Yeah. For sure, man. And thanks for asking that. And I'm curious, and I've thought about this for a while, is like, how do you get connected? Like, when it comes to collaborating with all these folks with your music, was that intentional? Is that something that you seek out, or is it just, like, now you've created this kind of, you know, compounded thing where they come to you, I guess. Like, how does that work and what's your mindset behind it?

Yeah, I think that's great. I think it varies. Right. You know, there are certain individuals that are very drawn to this, and so I've gotten a bunch of requests and curious. And then there. There's also other times where my gut is, like, there's a song here. And so there's a desire to, you know, bring up the question of, like, if. If the. The other party or individual is if. That's actually intriguing and exciting. And there is a space of if you're creating something which, you know, is it art? Yes, I'd say so. But it's more like this artistic creation. And if you're entering into that space, like, you know, one. One man's trash is another. Is another person's treasure when it comes to art. And so, you know, like, I'm just noticing that not everybody appreciates the same things. And it kind of takes a certain type of an individual who know. Who understands or at least appreciates the artistic process. But, yeah, as far as how that happens, you know, a lot of it is me, depending on the time and space that I have and the desire, I'd say that's the greatest catalyst. But. But generally, it's. It's the most like. Like, we're doing it together, where there's like a. You know, it's like 100%, like, hand, where no one's leading the other person, but more of, like, we're walking together holding hands. That's the best. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's different than you know, like, marketing opportunity or something else where I'm like, I can help your business. And, like, you know, it's a very easy, clear outcome versus a song where it's like, what is the utility of a song? And a lot of it comes down to, like, you know, it's the same thing as what is the utility of art in general, which, again, it could be super profound, could create a movement behind a song, you know, or it, you know, it could inspire one person. And so it almost requires, you know, the receiver of, let's say, this gift, because that's what I view it as. It's. And it's not even necessarily me who's the giver, but more, you know, connecting to the muse and having it channel through. You know, it's like. But just making sure that everybody understands that process and respects it.

Yeah. Is music still meditative for you, playing, like, the act of it?

Yeah, it gets further complicated. Like, there was a time where I really liked listening to music, and I do like listening to music, but my brain is more so figuring out songs because I. It's like being a TV producer, movie producer, whatever else. We're like, you watch movies, and it's not like you're experiencing it just as an audience, but you're experiencing it as like, well, oh, is that why they did that technique? Or, you know, and in some ways, it makes the experience more enjoyable, and in other ways, it makes the experience less effective for you, you know, unless you're. You're on. You're in a heightened state, you know, and so the piano being on piano, and that's like a meditative thing. But, like, it has to be the. If there's no pressure, that's. It's. The key is like, if there's no pressure on me to, like, I'm writing, oh, I have five hours to write a hit song. Or like, I was in the studio two days ago, you know, you're booking studio time, and I have all the other things happening. And. And sometimes I don't set myself up for success because I'm not creating the space of just letting the muse in and making it amusing and fun. So it's something I'm reflecting on now of that it could be more meditative when there's no pressure. And I. I've. I've had rituals where I'll write a song a day for. Just have 20 minutes of whatever the song is. Is great. It could be a half finishing. It could be one note. You know, it could be a fart sound yeah, whatever. It is like, you know, having no pressure, you know, except to make that fart sound, you'll need some pressure. But having, you know, like there's just a calm time to create is super meditative and fun.

Yeah. Yeah, man. And I asked that because obviously you brought it up earlier, but for myself as well, like guitar every single day or music, like to constrain now to just guitar, because I love playing guitar and I find it so meditative if I have the space or if that space is created, if I'm not rushing it. And for me, it's not, you know, studio time, but it might be like, oh, I have a few minutes and my toddler's not going to yell at me for playing this music as she's trying to watch her whatever show. But now it's becoming a lot more enjoyable. I get to. She's also musical as well. It's a three and a half year old that yesterday I was like. I'm like, she's got rhythm. Like, she was actually keeping a beat. And I was like, all right, just follow along. And I was like, chunky, chunk, chunk. And then she's like, dot, dot. I'm like, yes.

Got it. Every. Every dad's twisted fantasy of having a family band.

It's so true. Yeah, it's gonna happen. Hey, she. She's one.

I'll come to that show. Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah, man. It'll be happening soon. And that's where I think it's such a. It's. It's a cool thing. I don't know if it's a. I mean, you did it with keys and I've never really practiced as much on piano. My dad was a great pianist and. But with strings, like, I feel like that's very meditative. You know, it forces that hand. Eye coordination. Multiple different things happening with each hand. Your foot, you know, keeping, keeping pace. Yeah, there's a lot to it there. And I guess. Is there anything that you could share around that and maybe inspire people listening? Because I think this kind of segues to songwriting as well and what you're doing there and helping people with. I feel like channeling that muse somehow.

Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I, you know, had an experiment of running a songwriting retreat. Not for super accomplished songwriters, but instead for any individual who has a hunch that they. I mean, really what it takes is you have a desire to write a song. Do you think that would be cool? And, you know, having a retreat for five days or so in a really nice setting where the muse comes out and it's more about playing creativity and there's no. It's interesting because there's no pressure. But then our promise for this retreat is that everybody will write a song and perform it by the last day. So it's interesting how you have pretty high stakes for someone who's like never sang before, never written a song before, or individuals who have and just want to get to the next level. So it's like a high promise. And at the same time we found the only way to get there is most time spent is more about like peeling the layers of the onion of resistance to then find that pure desire and that pure fun place of creation. So I'll talk about that, that experience in a second. But yeah, as far as meditation goes, music and it's more about doing something that lights you up on a daily basis. I was talking to a spiritual advisor, coach, energy worker, magical person and he was sharing that a lot of times you just experiencing fun levity and enjoyment of any, any sort but like a playful, pure, you know, almost like, I mean you look at your daughter like any childlike joy. If there's anything that can give you that experience, it transforms your day and it transforms your outlook. And then you don't even realize that you can share that with other people. And it's like your cup has been filled. So for me, a lot of times there's different ways in which music can fill that cup and playing guitar is one of them. It's interesting with performance. Right. So I have a show coming up. If you're going to be. I don't really know when this is going to be released, but you're, you're probably going to be too far in the future when you listen to this. That show will happen, but there'll be other shows. So I have a show coming up and I've half ass been practicing for it. And so sometimes practicing for a show and like getting less rusty as you're kind of playing songs and performing them is not as meditative for me. But then once I pass that threshold where I'm like, wow, this sounds good, you know, and sometimes that takes like two weeks of practicing and you're kind of in, in a groove and all of a sudden I'm not thinking when I'm performing. You're just like embodying a song and that can be meditative. And you know, when you're performing in front of an audience, sometimes that can be a heightened state. And it's like a blend of meditation with like shintaking and like intensity.

It's a cool feeling. Yeah, it's very unique.

Yeah. So that, that would be a perspective there.

I like it. What's that? Tell me more about the like peeling the onion. Because that's, that's something we all have to face and wherever, but especially when it comes to songwriting. I mean, I am guilty in that regard where I've like, I've tinkered around a lot, played in bands, but at the same time. Yeah. The songwriting aspect of it. And maybe we, we kind of wrap the. The is and talk about how that can fall into this retreat. Because I think you're doing something cool where you're bringing people together. It's not necessarily a bunch of musicians, but it's like all walks of life, everybody has song in us. Like, we all have some. A way to express it, but how the hell do we get there?

Yeah. Yeah. So that, that retreat, this is the, the third time we're doing it. It's annual. It's kind of my annual vacation in Hawaii in Hilo. And so it's a beautiful property. It's from the November 15th to the 19th this year. But we've done it in November, which is selfishly around my birthday every year.

Right.

At least so and so, you know, so I wouldn't say by any means, I'm like super expert at facilitating this. All I know is the first year I did it, it was an experiment and it turned out to be a peak experience for most of, not all of the attendees. And I was like, wow, I think I'm doing something right. Some individuals were like, this was, you know, I've spent X number of dollars on any form of personal development and discovery. And this was by far the most elegant and most powerful experience, you know. And then I'm like kind of humbled because I'm like, I don't know, I kind of, kind of pulled it out of my button. But then. Yeah, but then like, you know, the following year you're doing it again and I'm like, oh, wow. Some of this stuff that we created quickly has become really, really valuable. And you're like, there's something there. Which is that whole process of like, if the intention is pure from the beginning and my desire was to create an epic, wonderful, one of a kind experience, then the rest comes a lot. It's a lot easier to ride that wave. I like to share this story. I worked with this very talented producer when I was first, let's. Let's say transitioning from the band to solo music and I had all sorts of demos, like, certain songs I worked on for years. And it's like, I'm like, this is my little baby. It's my masterpiece, and I'll share that. And then I also had done a songwriting exercise over 30 days where I was writing a different song in 20 minutes each time. So I'm sharing a catalog of music, and you have to have a big soul to just listen to everybody's, you know, closet of music and see what is most inspiring. And so this one producer listening to the music, he was like, oh, I really like this one song. It's great. There's another song, you know, it's not. You know, it's not really you. It's not that strong. And what he thought was great was the thing I wrote in approximately 15 minutes. The thing he didn't like was the thing that took me two years to work on. And I remember, like. I was like, are you sure? Maybe you got them confused, because this is. You know, there's this song, and I'm, like, trying to talk this person into liking it, which, you know, it's always a bad sign when I try to talk someone into liking a song. That never works out for me, but I still try. So he's like, no. Like, there was a purity and an essence to. Which is, again, that high art type thing to that one thing that just came quickly because there was no pressure or resistance. And that was almost how that retreat came to be. And that's also how a lot of people's best music tends to come to be. It doesn't mean that's always the case. Like, there's certain times where, you know, you spend two years on a thing and it's your best thing ever. But it's more of, like, the. The genesis of that idea. How pure was it and how potent was the seed? So, you know, I don't know if that kind of. Kind of answers in a way.

Yeah, it's capturing. It's capturing that element. I guess that's kind of what we've been talking about the whole time, is capture the. The heart, the essence of whatever, that idea, you know, and cut it out of her brains or somehow ride that wave that we noticed, and we're like, okay, I got this. It's good enough. And then go. Because, yeah, there's some purity to that without the overthinking and layering of other thoughts or outside perspectives. It's capturing you as best as possible. And I guess with the songwriting and the retreat, it sounds like it's like, all right, let's. Let's strip away all the preconceived notions, all the stuff that you probably thought you have to do or should be doing, like, fuck the shoulds, and like, do you. And then get to your heart and see what shows up.

Yeah, yeah. With that retreat, we've learned that, you know, again, it's. It's kind of somebody's resistance to sharing, which is a lot of times, like either stage fright or unworthiness or feeling undeserving of actually being successful at a thing because at some point as a kid, someone told them or they told themselves that they shouldn't do it. So a lot of, you know, that. Let's say that time together is about, in a fun way, like uncovering those stories that are literally just blockages. And it's like, you know, if we think of, you know, the seed, so to speak, which is pure ideas, which is. Could be considered the muse or whatever else.

It's.

It's more about firstly identifying which of those seeds are like, that's a healthy one, right? So it's first, like, understand, like, identifying, oh, that's like, why the hell have I been planting that in my garden? You know, so it's like identifying, like, the tree you want and then that seed and then the other piece of it is actually like, making sure that the soil is fertile. And with that, it's kind of like cleaning up the weeds and all the other stuff that's there, which is the. And let's say the little critters, as cute as bunny rabbits are, they'll still fuck up your garden everywhere.

And then.

Yeah, yeah. And so it's like a lot of that work is just cleaning up what else is around, you know, in your psyche. So that. And which is a lot of times, confidence, self assuredness and positivity and like, you have that and then you have the right seed. And together it's like you have, you know, the confidence to create momentum, which is like riding the wave, which is, you know, for you, it's birthing this AI bot generated component of this podcast and ideally helping a lot of other people to distill information in a way that can, you know, really change lives.

So, yeah, man, thank you.

My attempt at tying things together.

He did it wonderfully, man. Well, hey, let's. Let's shout out all the stuff that people won't say should, but if they would like to go down the paths, definitely. It's easy to get stuck in your Spotify channel. Davey Harris.

Davey Harris. Yeah. D A, V, E, Y.

There you go. And yeah, Harris. What? Two Rs. Two S's, I believe one S. But.

Who'S counting my ego? Yeah, I'll.

I'll link everything, as always, in the show notes. So talk about the. The songwriting retreat too. Like a little bit more details there and how people can get a hold of you.

Yeah, okay, cool. The songwriter treat that again, November 15th to the 18th in Hilo, Hawaii, at the lovely Bliss Island Resort. All. All inclusive. There's only a handful of individuals that the maximum attendees would be 22, and we already have a bunch of tickets sold, so it's kind of like more. Even though it's months away, it's more of a last call of if this is something that really resonates with you. And if it does, then, you know, just send message to. To me, davidaissance messaging.com with, you know, the subject line retreat. And then, you know, I'd be happy to share more details and see if you're the right fit. It is a once in a lifetime experience.

That's awesome, man. Yeah, definitely. Hit up, hit up, Dave. And also Renaissance Messaging, as you just said, that's your. Your. Your agency copywriting, and you do some other awesome stuff. So definitely in the marketing business side, if you're interested in seeking out some stuff from Dave and his crew, I know you have a whole team too, so.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, whenever I do interviews or something like this, if somebody is nice enough to listen and. And they. And they're inspired or whatever else and you even want to have a conversation, the fact that this conversation is resonating with you makes me want to speak with you. And so again, you know, you should feel free to share my email address and anybody who's even curious about having a conversation, it's fun to unlock more potent creativity in somebody else. And when that is applied to your business, it leads to, you know, like, breaking through that ceiling, so to speak, you know, tapping into something more. And obviously, if it's an artistic side, then that's even more fun.

Yeah, it is. Well, it's all. It all works together, and I think it builds us all up. And sharing this is even better too. So everybody gets a little bit of the fruits. You know, they get to enjoy them too. So. Yeah, Dave, this was. This is a fun chat. You have been inspiring me on the musical front and getting that stuff out there now, the songwriting front, that's. That's next on the agenda. So, yeah, appreciate your brother. And yeah, let's do it again soon and I'm going to go nerd out and more. Your music videos get lost in those now that I just found them.

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Of course. You're very welcome, man. Have a good one. All right. All right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live if you need to do the work. But, you know, work can be fun and it should be feeling for your life, so. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list, writing a review or whatever it might be. Everything helps. So thank you so much for the listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, and I will see you next time.