Ilana Wechsler - The Missing Puzzle Piece To Paid Advertising

First of all, like, from a data point of view, it's the lowest hanging fruit and it's the highest ROI campaign you'll probably ever run. And I think that people might think that if someone comes to your website and they don't buy that, they're not necessarily interested to buy at all. And the answer is they might not be ready to buy right now, or they might be like me and they're super busy because they've got three young children and they got interrupted and the phone rang and they forgot about what they were doing and life just kind of got in the way a little bit or they need a little bit more convincing, you know? So just because they didn't buy straight away doesn't mean that they're never going to buy or that you can't keep communicating with them in an. In an elegant manner.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and float, Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Hey, yo.

Hi there. We're back again. What's up?

Giddy up.

Giddy up, cowboy.

So this intro, we're actually not in person while recording it, but this episode, we were in person when we did record it.

Yeah. I feel like this whole lockdown quarantine thing is really screwing with our systems, huh? Yeah. Well, I think we're figuring it out, though, for a good reason.

This isn't a sponsor, but I'm going to say it anyway. We've been using this tool called Squadcast, and it's actually pretty legit.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. Jordan Harbinger told us to start using this, like, six months ago, eight months ago, probably whenever we had him on the show. Show. And we tried it and then we didn't, and then now we're definitely, like, in on it. This is really good for podcasts.

So Squadcast people, if you want to sponsor us, come talk to us.

I might send this to them, but either way, it's an awesome product and thank you, Jordan, for letting us know about it. All right, so that's not what we're talking about today, though. No, no.

Today we're talking about traffic. We've actually been on kind of a traffic run lately, haven't we?

We have. And they've all been from different angles and different approaches, but all similar, too. I think there's a. There's definitely a theme, more than just the traffic theme.

I feel like a lot of the underlining principles and the fundamentals of what they're talking about all sort of align and match up and everybody's kind of saying the same thing, but they're also all sort of experts in different areas.

Right.

And so today we're talking to Alana Wexler, and she's another intro from James Schamko. I. I said her name right, but I couldn't say his name right.

I know.

James Schramko.

There you go. You call him Shrek, right?

Shrek. Yep. This is an intro from Shrek. Alana Wexler. And she. So in this episode, she's got a brand called Teach Traffic. And we're talking about the traffic puzzle and what that means. And if you've ever gone through any of our old PAG training, there's some overlap here, because what we're talking about is you shouldn't really be focused on one traffic source. Like, Google has its place, Facebook has its place, YouTube has its place. SEO has its place. All of these various traffic sources have their place. But if you do it right, they all are sort of symbiotic. Like, the Facebook ads can feed the Google Ads, and the Google Ads can feed the YouTube and the, you know, Facebook ads can feed the SEO. And, you know, it sounds counterintuitive just explaining it, but when you hear the way Ilana maps it out with her ad puzzle, it makes so much sense. Like, yeah, this is actually one of the traffic episodes where I was sort of blown away by the concept. Like, you know, we. We talk to a lot of people about traffic, and, you know, I. This will sound like a little egotistical, but most of the time when they're talking about traffic, I'm kind of like, yeah, I love that we're talking about this. It's stuff that fascinates me, but it's sort of concepts I'm already familiar with.

Right.

With this one with Alana, like, I was blown away. Like, this is new concepts to me.

Yeah. But they're simple concepts still, which I think is really cool, is that any one of any traffic expertise and experience should be able to see this as a. Like, this is a cohesive system is what she's built, this traffic puzzle. And it's really interesting that, like, how she explained. And you're definitely going to need the visuals, by the way, too, which will be linked in the show notes. And so as she's describing this, if you have the ability to have that in front of you, I think it's going to be super powerful and you'll just see how things are connected. It literally is the way of a puzzle. You start with the edges and you Kind of build this puzzle. And the cool thing is that every person has their own unique kind of puzzle, depending on their business, their market, what they're trying to achieve. So I think just the fact that there's like, it's a nice cohesive system that plays nicely together, that works with all different types of traffic sources. But it's not complicated, though. That's what I.

The part that I was really sort of digging about this episode was how she manages the targeting. Right. Like, I think people's biggest question when it comes to, like any of the advertising platforms is how do I dial in my targeting? Like, what targets should I be going after? And her explanation, there is zero question for how you should be targeting on Facebook, how you should be targeting on Google, how you should be targeting on YouTube. She flat out tells you this is how you do your targeting. And it's this approach where you start with some of the lowest hanging fruit and then you sort of expand it out. And then when that starts working, you expand it out. When that starts working, you expand it out. And these targets get more and more like, I guess colder. Right, like colder and colder audiences as you expand out. But she has a very, very systematic way to, to decide what targets to go after. And that was the part that blew my mind was I've never looked at targeting in this way.

Yeah. And more than ever now, a pretty common theme that we're hearing now that we're getting more into this whole virus thing is that people are scared with their traffic. Like, people, a lot of companies like Perry Marshall actually told us that Amazon pulled out of Google Ads. And like, just think about that, like the implications of that. That means ad costs are dropping. There's less competition for a lot of you ad spots. But usage of the Internet, social media, and all these places where your ads live are going extremely higher. So yeah, don't, don't play scared in this time. Especially if you have an offer that converts. Like, this is the time to really hone in on your traffic and then really dial in this puzzle, this thing that Alana talks about, because this is probably way more powerful than even was a week ago when we recorded with her. So I would recommend definitely grab the notes for this episode. You're gonna need them. Make sure you get the diagram that's on the show, notes of this episode. And of course, she teaches this stuff too, so we'll probably have a link to her course. I think it's also called Teach Traffic.

Yeah, her website's literally teachtraffic.com. and I believe her course is@teachtraffic.com puzzle. So if you wanna go deeper down this rabbit hole after listening to this, definitely check out teachtraffic.com pu.

Right on.

Yeah.

So get the notes. They are free. They're free for two weeks from the time that this episode goes live. I don't know why I'm doing two to the camera. It's just because I'm looking at Matt, but you guys can't see me.

True story.

So get the notes. They're very tactical, but you're also going to see how all this stuff fits together nicely. The notes are what you get them at a dirt mind blank. Hustleandflowchart.com/comp.

He had to do that because that's our jingle. Just that?

Yeah, just the. Just the word comp. It's not even a full word. It's like a. It's like a third of a word.

We're lazy with.

Yeah, Third of a word.

We're. We were lazy with our word and with our jingle. It's just one syllable.

Comp. Yeah.

So hustleandfluidchart.com comp or the short code to the texting, or you can text.

The word comp to 38470 comp. 38470 comp.

All right. And then lastly, we are sponsored by our good friends at Ahrefs. And again, this pairs up perfectly with this episode because it's traffic.

Yeah. And we even touch on SEO in this episode, which is one of. Well, here's the thing about ahrefs is I think a lot of people see it as just an SEO tool, but Ahrefs is actually a brilliant tool for fleshing out what keywords to go after as well. So, you know, it's an SEO tool, but it's also a very, very, very powerful paid traffic tool to do your market research on what sort of targeting to go after, what sort of content to make. You know, a lot of what we teach is drive your paid traffic into content. And if you use ahrefs, you can actually find out what other content on the Internet is getting a lot of interest right now. And make content around those keywords.

And.

And Ahrefs is gonna help you flush out what that content is.

Flush or flesh out both. Flush them out.

Yeah, it's gonna flush them out, and it'll flesh them out.

Sweet. Well, Ahrefs is running a trial that you could just test it out for seven days, $7, and you can get that at a h r e f s.com.com. so you should go get that. We use it literally every day. Or someone on our team uses it. It's worth it. Go try it adref.com Seven bucks.

Seven days. All right, let's go talk to Alana.

Yeah. We are live. Alana, how you doing?

I'm well. How are you guys doing?

Doing well. Yes, we'll say relative to.

It's interesting times right now.

Yeah, yeah, we use that term interesting quite loosely, don't we?

We're recording. I mean, for the audience listening. What, March 18th. So who knows when this is going live? It's about a month or so out, but, yeah, interesting times on March 18, 2020.

Yeah, we're all in lockdown right now. And Joe broke the lockdown protocol to come over and record this.

No, no, we're six feet away. We're practicing social distancing. We're doing our part.

Well, I'm doing my part being on the other side of the world, at least.

Well, you were in San Diego in quarantine for a little bit.

True story. True story. I did return from San Diego, and then six days after my arrival home, the government announced, if you've come home last 14 days, you need to quarantine. So I'm on day 12 right now.

Oh, man. What have you learned or what? I guess. What's the best part of quarantining yourself?

Yeah. What's the silver lining?

Because we're learning right now of how this feels like a little bit.

There are a few silver linings. The first is I've really grown, actually. It's amazing how quickly you can change, firstly. But I've learned to try and really appreciate the little things. So I'm home with my kids because unfortunately, the quarantine applies to them too. So despite their school being still open, they are home with me, which is posing interesting challenges. And so we go for a daily walk with the dog, and we pick flowers, which is really lovely, which we never used to do before. We actually. We pick them off the floor rather than a tree. So we're enjoying.

We're enjoying the little things. We've been doing gardening. And so that's the silver lining, that is.

No, you're back. It's. That's good. It's kind of slowing down. That's what we're hearing from people here, too, which is, you know, it's good thinking time. And you. I mean, I don't know. I feel like every time I'm outside, you come up with the best ideas. That way. And solutions too.

I do feel like just sort of the pace of life has slowed down a little bit just by the way, not as much going on right now.

I'm cool with that.

I've just been not even getting in the car actually. And we walk to our local corner shop mainly because the supermarket shelves are empty. So we walk to the local corner store and we buy enough. We buy our daily bread for the day. So we have fresh bread and we buy a couple of things that we need for the day and it sort of scaled that right back. That sort of rush and race to the supermarket and buy all this stuff. It's made us really think about actually what we need on a day to day basis.

Yep.

I also notice, you know, at least here we're definitely like rationing a little better. You know, things like toilet paper, we're using a little bit less of it when we're eating food. We're kind of like making sure we save leftovers. And I just, we just notice ourselves like, you know, there could be a chance where we can't go to the grocery store. So best, you know, might as well kind of make sure we're portioning things out properly.

Totally. And like, I'm starting to really think like, you know, I wanted to wrap up some leftover food with, with Glad or cling wrap and I thought, you know what, I can just put it in this like little plastic bag. I don't need to use my cling wrap, so. Me too. I'm also thinking, you know, sort of how to conserve things such that we don't have to go to the shops and.

Yeah, crazy, crazy times seems like a good shift for society, you know, and ideally it'll stick and we won't just jump right back to our over consumption ways. Yeah, but that's a. Let's, let's put that behind us for now. Yeah, let's focus on the cool stuff that you're bringing to the table here.

Right now is an amazing time to be learning some new skills.

Dang. Right it is.

Exactly.

So you were introduced to us by our good buddy James Schramko. He's been on the show many times and hey, James, I think he listens to most episodes, at least he claims. And you just spoke at his event, what, last week? Is that when I guess it had to have been right during the quarantine?

It was last week. Yes. It's funny that he runs a two day event, which is awesome by the way. And I spoke on the first day and that Night of that first night, the government introduced quarantine laws and I couldn't attend the second day, so I'm lucky I spoke on the first day.

Yeah.

So we're going to get a little.

Bit of that here.

Exactly. So, yeah, he runs a great event in Sydney, Australia. I think he's done so for the last 10 years.

Yeah, he has. And next year we're aiming on being over there. I know we have a standing invite to speak, so that'll be fun. Haven't been to Australia. Yeah.

Awesome.

Yeah. Hopefully we'll meet you.

Well, cool. Before we get into some traffic strategies and talk about the paid traffic puzzle and all that good stuff, let's chat about your backstory a little bit. How did you get into doing paid traffic and running your agency? What were you doing before this? And sort of. How did you decide that this was the thing you wanted to pursue?

Oh, my God. Okay, I'm going to try and summarize this story because it's long and I'll do my. I will promise to summarize it. Basically, I come from a corporate background, sadly. Please don't hold that against me. I used to be a data analyst in.

I know. Fund managers now.

I'm gonna hold that against you, though.

Please don't hold that against me. I do know how to have fun, I promise.

I know.

I could tell.

Yeah. And I'm not this classic story, actually, of somebody who dreamed of being an entrepreneur and I. Cause I hated my job. On the contrary, actually, I absolutely loved my job. I love the people that I work with. And I had every intention of being what's called a lifer, somebody who stays for life. But what happened was I fell pregnant with my first child and life took a bit of a left turn when I had a medical complication, actually. And you reevaluate life pretty quickly when you have an experience like that. And I just thought, there's no way I can go back to my life before as it was of working seven to seven, you know, like it was a pretty serious medical pregnancy complication. And so I thought, well, I've almost lost my son now. Why would I just throw him into daycare and only see him on the weekends? Which is what it would have been had I gone back.

Wow.

Yeah. So it's pretty crazy. So that kind of thrust me into the.

Unknown world of what I was going to do, actually. So I first thought, well, what are my skills? I thought, well, I've got really good Microsoft Excel skills because I basically spent 10 years in a spreadsheet building complex spreadsheets linking to database. Yep. So I thought, well, surely some people need help with Excel. So I put an ad on a website called Gumtree in Australia, which is kind of like a Craigslist. Right. And bear in mind, my son's 11 now, so this is going back 11 years.

It's still there though, right? Like, I think it's still going strong, like, sure.

But it's. I don't think it's generally the way people get work these days. I put an ad on Craigslist, let's say, saying, does anyone need Excel help? Here's kind of like the stuff that I can do. And to my shock and horror, people responded and I got work and I was like, oh my God, like I'm onto something here. And these were like medium sized businesses. These were not like little nothing businesses. So I thought, awesome, I'm onto something. So then I bought the domain name excelhelp.comau and I thought, I can build something here. And I didn't even know how to build a website, but I did used to be a programmer. So I worked it out, built this terrible website. And to my surprise then as well, no one came to my website. I thought, build it and they will come. How wrong I was there. So that sparked my journey into traffic really. And I actually just became fascinated with traffic and sort of quite obsessed with it and still am actually. I find it really, really fascinating. There is a lot more to my sort of online journey, but that's basically the summary of it. And so I just focus on paid traffic. As soon as I discovered that, I was like, wow, this is my home. And I built an agency only doing paid traffic. I started eight years ago as just a Google Ad agency. Like that was literally all I did. No web design, no SEO. This is before really Facebook ads took off. And I just did Google Ads and then client and I built that up. And I'd like to say it was a strategic decision. Like I'm not an entrepreneur really at heart. Like, it's just because of what I love doing. I thought, screw it, I just want to do what I like to do and I don't want to muck around with other stuff that I don't enjoy. And then it ended up being a really good strategic decision, but it was a total fluke. Like I would. I'm not going to take any credit for being strategic in that respect. And then existing clients start to ask for Facebook ads, so I had to offer that. And then I realized actually that There were a lot of synergies across both platforms and we could use insights from one platform and apply them to the other platform. Because I knew both platforms really, really intricately. And then actually I developed like feelings about like the holistic paid traffic journey because as you guys agree with me, we live in a multi device, multi platform world. And it's ridiculous to think that, you know, as an advertiser you should only partake in one platform because that generates your leads. It's, it's all related to each other, which is how I kind of came up with the concept of the paid traffic puzzle, which is obviously what we're going to talk about today.

And each platform too kind of has different sort of user intents. Right. Like the reason somebody's on Facebook is different than the reason somebody's searching Google versus the reason somebody's using YouTube right now. So to me, anybody who just kind of sticks with one traffic source is kind of missing the boat a bit.

Totally. And I think not all clicks are created equal as well, you know, so we see a lot that we might do Facebook ads at the top of funnel point of view, but then, you know, we will retarget on Google and we'll absolutely do Google search retargeting. So for example, I had one client that was a woman who taught some kind of online training, let's just say I can't really reveal the industry. And she was running an event in Sydney and like she's unknown here, so we were doing, you know, cold traffic for Facebook ads. And this was a 13 day course that was selling for like $14,000. So this is not a small amount of money. Right. Made a whole funnel and whatever. And what we were finding, and we could see this, is that, you know, our brand awareness and our awareness was predominantly Facebook ads because it was a video and all this kind of stuff. But then people were going to Google and searching this woman's name and event in Sydney, which like it's related and they're doing it in the one session, you know, and we could see that by looking at the retargeting search traffic. So we were creating search traffic based on what we were doing on Facebook. And yet, you know, if you look in Google Analytics, well, Facebook didn't get the credit. Google got it because it's last click attribution and we don't have to get in the whole attribution argument.

Right, right.

But it's all the one customer. That's the point.

Yeah. And you're now leveraging multiple platforms for the customer journey. You know, you're creating interest on Facebook and then, yeah, as a result, now they're interested to do some proactive research and ideally you're going to show up right there with some remarketing and brand ads and things like that, which I think is just super smart. And I love the fact that you're actually. We've met so many great ad buyers and media buyers like yourself who were data analysts or data scientists or something before, and then the second they get their hands on anything like Facebook ads or Google Ads, YouTube, whatever, they're just like, oh, my God, I can run any experiment I want and get like almost instant results. So cool.

It is the coolest thing. When I found this, I was like, this is my home. This is my first love online. You know, like, as sad as that is, but it, like, it is so fascinating and there's so much psychology that comes into this as well. And it's just, it is for each different industry and business, it is actually like solving a puzzle. And different businesses, puzzles look different. So there's no two playbooks that are the same for different industries. So it's fascinating.

Yeah. Well, I think what you said too, about how you drove ads on Facebook and the Facebook drove the actual searches on Google and then you were seeing clicks on Google because you typically hear about the other way around, right? You typically hear about people search on Google, they find something, they click on the link and then they start getting retargeted on Facebook and then the website starts to follow them around on Facebook. But you're actually talking about seeing the kind of reverse of that, where you created awareness on Facebook which drove search traffic, which is, I think, a real interesting different take on it than something we've talked about before on the podcast.

Well, yeah, and I think that's where it comes in to the different businesses, but it absolutely is fluid both ways. And it's funny you mentioned just retargeting on Facebook. I just find that so many businesses just do that. And I was recently talking about this in the presentation I gave actually at James's event where I was like, I'm a mom of three kids, so I buy stuff online, obviously. And I was looking to buy this cleaning product online and it's like one of these no toxins, low toxin, whatever, cleaning product, because she's got allergies, whatever. And whilst I've got my mum hat on thinking, am I going to buy this? I've also got my marketing hat on. So I'm always interested in how I'm going to be retargeted once I leave because I wasn't quite ready to buy. And lo and behold, the first day I get retargeting ad in my Facebook newsfeed. Oh yeah, classic. Here we go guys. And it's like the most boring ad on the planet. Right. And then the next day I get an Instagram story retargeting. At least it was a video showing me this cleaning product in action. But like literally that was all they did, you know. And I just thought you guys are so short sighted. Like why don't you show me how this product works on YouTube? Like and actually on their product page they have a YouTube video which has over 200,000 views. Which is not a surprise because that's what's going to sell cleaning products. Show me it swiped through grease. Like that's what's going on in my head as a mum, you know, like, yes, I want no toxins for my daughter, but at the same time I got three children, my house is filthy, it needs to be cleaned.

Yeah. You know, demonstrations help like especially a product like that. Be on YouTube. Use video.

Use video. Exactly. And like no Google display retargeting. They just were so single platform minded and I just thought like it's such a missed opportunity.

Yeah, well let's chat about that because I think it's at least they were doing some type of retargeting because I feel like there's still so many people that just don't even have a pixel installed on their website. I always have the little pixel helper things Facebook and Google's and I'm like, wow, how do you not have something at least capturing the audience on here? It's like, come on.

Well, I have a situation where people come to me where they are running ads and then I go check out their website and there is no pixel on their website and they are running ads.

Oh, that's even worse.

It's even worse.

I gotcha.

Don't you realize what you guys are missing out on? We don't want to do retargeting really.

Quickly I guess talk about, I mean at a super basic level. And I hope that every. I just want people to grasp the importance of retargeting remarketing. I mean we don't want to spend a lot of time here. But I just want to be like from your words, like why everyone needs this like now.

Retargeting. That is.

Yes, yes.

Well, I mean I think that it's first of all like from a data point of view. It's the lowest hanging fruit and it's the highest ROI campaign you'll probably ever run. And I think that people might think that if someone comes to your website and they don't buy that they're not necessarily interested to buy at all. And the answer is they might not be ready to buy right now, or they might be like me and they're super busy because they've got three young children, they got interrupted and the phone rang and they forgot about what they were doing and life just kind of got in the way a little bit or they need a little bit more convincing, you know. So just because they didn't buy straight away doesn't mean that they're never going to buy or that you can't keep communicating with them in an elegant manner. And I think that's the real key is where people kind of are fearful of doing retargeting is because they've seen another business bombard them with the same ad forever. And so much so they've had to clear their cookies just to stop the onslaught of ads. You can be really elegant with it and you can restrict the number of impressions and you can kind of still continue the conversation with people whilst keeping your business top of mind in a really elegant way. So there's a reason it works very well for so many businesses and it is the low, lowest of low hanging fruit that you campaign that you can run.

Definitely, yeah.

I mean some of our retargeting ads, we only have it set at like $5 a day, but they'll generate, you know, $100 a day off a $5 a day campaign just because of the, the sort of volume. Like if I put it at more than $5 a day, I start to go up above, you know, my frequency starts to go a little bit high if I go above 5. But if I like, some of these ads will just leave at five bucks a day and we'll actually generate sales pretty consistently on them because it's just somebody clicked on a Google Ad, they started to see the retargeting ads and then boom, we're making sales off these little $5 a day ads. So it doesn't even really take that much to get them going.

No. And what I find especially retargeting on social is that you might retarget, let's say, an existing customer and we actually do this intentionally for hopefully getting really good social proof on our ads. So let's say I bought this cleaning product, oh my God, it was amazing. And my daughter' is now eczema free, and I'm making that up. But, you know, you can actually, if people love your product, they will want to share that with people, and they will want to be generous with their experience with your product or service. And they will comment on your ad saying how pleased they were. If they're not, then they're going to, like, hammer you with that, of course. But I think that's. It's also a really good opportunity as well.

Really smart. Yeah. Because the common wisdom is kind of you want to exclude your customers so they stop seeing your ads and you're not spending money to get them in front of your customers. But what you're saying is, you know, run those ads to customers as well, because those customers are going to be the ones that are leaving all the amazing comments about how much they love the product.

We do that all the time, and it works super well. And actually, what we also do is we will coincide email marketing to that same database. So people. You know what I find also the mistake people make is that as soon as someone becomes a lead. Right. They never show them an ad again because they're going to rely 100% on them opening their emails. But we all know email open rates are not 100% sure. I'll show you my husband's phone. He's got about 41,000 unopened emails.

To the OCD person, they would probably go into a corner and cry.

But what that. So we coincide email ads with email marketing, and people will share that. They won't forward an email to their entire contact list, but if they think a good offer has gone out that is the same as represented in an email, they will hit that share button or say, tag a friend going, oh, you'll Love this. Grab 20% off, or whatever is the offer or whatever it is the email it's about, you know, and that's a great way to sort of amplify that message as well.

Yeah, I love it. Yeah.

Let's break down this. The paid ad puzzle. I know. Before we hit record, you know, you were telling us that it's kind of hard to explain with the visuals, but we'll share the visuals on the show notes page so that people could kind of look at it while they're listening. So maybe now's a good time to kind of make our best efforts to explain the visuals of this paid ad puzzle here.

Yeah, sure. Okay. So basically, it's the concept of, as I said, the paid traffic puzzle. So if I kind of give you a bit of A backstory, essentially. You know, my daughter came to me and she said to me, you know, mummy, can we do a puzzle? Right? I said, yeah, sure. So she hands me a bag of puzzle pieces, right? And I said, okay, cool. Where is the picture of this puzzle? And she says, I don't have the picture.

This is going to be an interesting exercise. We're going to do a puzzle without knowing what the picture looks like. Chances are it's going to be something to do with frozen, but it's beside the point.

So I thought, hang on a minute, let's not panic. What would be if I did have the picture? What would be the way that I. Every time when I start a puzzle, what's always the way that we start with it? And we always start with the corners, right? Exactly. And the reason we start with the corners is because the corners are going to help us determine what's the next piece that is adjoining that corner piece. And from those two pieces, then you can start finding out and build out the next piece and the next piece. So our corners are like kind of the guiding light, right, to fulfilling this whole puzzle. And then I thought, this is actually like the same process that I go through when I either help people with their online ads with training or in my agency or whatever, right? What I always do for any client is we start with retargeting, right? And we think of the puzzle in the four corners, right? And the one corner retargeting would be Google search retargeting, and the other corner would be Google display retargeting. And our third corner would be YouTube ret retargeting. And the fourth one would be retargeting on social, okay? And so these are your four corners of your paid traffic puzzle, okay? And the reason they're the corners is because I believe. And maybe I'm going to be a little controversial here. If you can't find a way to make retargeting profitable in your business, then the answer is not more traffic. The answer is to change your offer. Because clearly your offer is not resonating with your audience.

And so therefore, like, your corners are so critical to get right. Because then if you don't have can't get that to work, you literally don't have a puzzle, okay? And then once you can get retargeting working, those retargeting data and we can go through this in a bit, will reveal what is the next piece in your puzzle. So in the bag of pieces like my daughter gets came to me are all the targeting metrics that you can do. It's, you know, it's Google search, it's targeting competitors on Facebook, it's YouTube keyword targeting, whatever it is. And starting out, you don't really know if you're going to use every piece in that puzzle and you don't have to. And as I said, the corners will reveal what pieces you should test in your puzzle next. And it may or may not work. So starting out your entire paid traffic puzzle will actually just be four corners. So four quadran of your puzzle. So that is the entire puzzle. And then as you guys say, it's $5 a day. And then if you do it anymore, then the frequency gets too high. And what's happened is you've maxed out on your audience. Right. And so you need to start finding a way to fill your retargeting list with more people. Right. By cold traffic. So we spread out the puzzle and to allow for purchasing traffic in either one of those four quadrants. Does that kind of explain the broad brush? I've never actually done it without a visual, so I have my work cut out for me.

You're doing great. And that's where we'll tell folks. Or actually, just so you listening. Yeah. In the show notes, actually, I think you already said this, but we'll have the visuals down there on the show notes of this podcast too, because we're looking at them actually while you're explaining. And so far, so good.

Okay, cool. Okay. So starting out, as I said, your entire puzzle will retargeting. So your entire first quadrant will be your search retargeting. As I said. Other quadrant is display YouTube and Instagram. And then as I said, we're going to spread out those pieces and start exploring cold traffic. Right. So one of the first things I like to do is we start with Google search because there's so much intent there. You know, if we can't convert cold traffic with search, even if it's not profitable, it's just trying to find out which are our profitable keywords, then I believe there's a problem with our website or landing page. You know, like you're effectively sliding your business card under the nose of someone at literally the instant that they have searched whatever it is you sell, be it a product or service. If we can't convert those people, I think we have a problem.

Agreed.

Even if the cost per click is too high, it's a great way to test if your website is converts because it's critical. Right.

Yep.

So we will start with retargeting what's called top of funnel keywords. So as you know, as I explained my history, like I started off as a Google Ad agency and I've been trained as a search marketer. And so I would never dream of bidding on a single keyword. Like would never dream of it.

Right.

It can mean anything. Right. We all know top of funnel single keywords have huge volume of people searching for it because of the variety of intent that comes with that. However, if I do that only for retargeting people, I know they're interested in my product or service because they've come to my website and then after they leave, I bid on a top of funnel keyword, I am opening the door to more search volume than I would otherwise would. And it's a safe way of doing that. So I've done this actually with a mortgage client, Right. Where it's a competitive space and they're in California. Right. So it is wore out there, there. Right. So we don't want to bid against like these big, big banks with seriously deep pockets. Although maybe not now in the current.

Climate, pockets are getting shallower and shallower.

Right. But we will with retargeting, you know, and then I can delve deep into the search term report to see actually what's the language that these people are using. Right. And, and so that's the next piece of the puzzle. So top of funnel keywords. Right.

So just to clarify, are you doing like this might be kind of in the weeds for the audience a little bit, but are you doing like RLSA type stuff where if somebody visits the website, you're building an audience with them and then you're targeting keywords. But because they're in this audience, only the people that are in this audience are seeing the search results for these specific top of funnel keywords.

Exactly. Okay. Exactly. Yes. You articulated that way better than I did, so well done.

I just don't know if the people listening are really familiar with RLSAs. So the retargeting list for search audiences is what that means, but it's essentially you're making a retargeting list and then if somebody searches these sort of broad keywords and they're in your retargeting audience, they're going to see that search result.

Exactly. So actually in this talk that I gave, I used the example of a business that I was helping that they sold bricks, okay. And home building products. So somebody goes to that website, they're clearly renovating or building and therefore they're looking for those type of products. But if they go to that website and they leave and then they go to Google after a certain time period, it can even be 30 days afterwards or 60 days afterwards. And then they've got the word bricks somewhere in their search term. Right. Somewhere in what they've typed into Google. Then I want my ad to show up for those people. But I only do that to people who've gone to my client's website before.

Got it. So it's laser focused on that target, on that customer.

Correct. And it has the added benefit of I can understand more of the language that my people. And my people, I mean, my website people, the language that they use that I can then apply to my cold traffic people.

Got it. So you're basically data mining through their actions, and then now you're going to start bidding on those keywords, at least.

Testing them out for cold traffic. Exactly. Which is then the next piece in the Google search quadrant of the puzzle.

Oh, this is so smart. My mind is getting blown right now. I'm actually making notes about current campaigns we have running that I know I now have ideas on how to better optimize them.

There you go.

Yeah, awesome. Yeah. No, and it like, it totally works. Like, I've done this in so many different industries. As I said, I did this client for the bricks. So we're doing it for mortgage people. Because you and I know, right. It's all in the long tail.

So we need to find those long tail words, but we need to do it in a safe way. And the safe way is on our retargeting people. Because I know that they want to buy bricks or I know that they're renovating. I just. Because they've come to website. They wouldn't have come otherwise. I mean, I don't go and search for and go to bricks websites if I'm not in the market.

It's such a fascinating thing. Fascinating thing to search for, though.

Yeah. You can buy terracotta ones and you can buy.

You're not just googling bricks in your free time because you're bored.

I know, it's strange, isn't it? Right? Yeah. Okay, so that's sort of that next piece of the puzzle. And I'm also a personally a big believer in bidding on brand traffic as well. And I kind of. That's probably a whole other podcast episode. I won't sort of touch on that. Okay, so that's like the search quadrant of it. Right. If we then shift gears and look to the other quadrant of the puzzle. Which is our Google Display retargeting. All right, so someone comes to my client website of the bricks they leave and then banners follow them around pretty much regardless of where they travel on the web.

Okay.

The beauty with Google Ads is the data it gives you. Right. So Google tells me.

Where that person like what article they were reading, what blogs they were reading, where my banner was displayed. So it's kind of like putting a little birdie on my website visitors shoulder and seeing or private investigator if we're going to get creepy and see, seeing where they go after they leave my website. Right.

And so we it's all about understanding our customer better. Right. So what we found to use a case study just because it's easy to conceptualize with a case study. So for my bricks client, right, they were going to my client's website and leaving and then reading articles on like decorating websites. Right. So they were going to websites like El Decor and Better Homes and Gardens. I don't know if you've got that over there, but you know. Right. Okay. Home Beautiful, all these kind of, they're looking for inspiration on what their new house is going to look like. Right? Of course they are. Right. It makes complete sense, you know. So I can then use those insights that Google has given me based on where my retargeting traffic has traveled on the Internet and I can say to Google, hey Google, like I want to target anyone who visits Home Beautiful and El Decor and all these wherever they've gone and capture everyone who is going to that website. Sure, not everyone is renovating and whatever, but surely it would make sense that that's where my target customer is hanging out online. Why wouldn't I want to say have it what's called the direct placement on that website and capture all their traffic rather than just my retargeting traffic. And that is the next piece in the quadrant of the display side of my puzzle. It's like placements. Right. So it's a safe way based on the insights of retargeting that I can incorporate cold traffic on display. That kind of makes sense.

Yeah, it totally makes sense. Again, you're using data that you're gathering from now your Google display remarketing campaigns and then essentially zeroing in on the best of the best websites that are bringing you the most qualified or the best traffic. And then now you're singling them out as a placement.

Exactly. So whilst I wouldn't blindly copy all the placements and make them into another campaign of placements, I'm cherry picking the best ones that I think are a good fit for my target customer and going, yes, of course, somebody who visits these types of websites is the type of customer that I want more of and I'm sort of just swiping the cream off the top of it, basically.

Smart.

Yeah. And so you just go laser focused on those specific websites and you can target them directly and lo and behold, like it works. The beauty is on Google, you don't pay for an impression, you only pay for a click. And so therefore you get a ton of free branding and you can obviously bid whatever you want.

That is true because we're told all the time we're like, we see your stuff everywhere. You're everywhere. You must be spending so much money. No, it doesn't require a lot, it's just strategic. It's this.

Exactly. So yeah, that is like the next piece joining that display retargeting corner. It's like that Google placements. But we can actually take it a step further. Right. Where a lot of these type, those type of websites. So those online magazine really is what they are. Websites have a social media profile. Like if you go to their website, you'll see, you know, their social media presence. And so for Better Homes and Gardens, for example, they have 6.1 million fans, right. So surely if I know when somebody comes to my website, they leave, they go read articles on Better Homes and Gardens. I know if my Google placement campaign is working. Right. Surely it makes sense to target the people who like them on Facebook. Like why should I have to wait for them to be reading an article on there? Can I capture them and target them as one interest group on Facebook?

Sure, yeah.

And that then is like another targeting in the other quadrant of our puzzle. Right. So we've used insights from one corner and we've applied it to another corner.

So that's basically. Would that be another remarketing or that's interest targeting and it's interest targeting of.

Those specific magazine websites. Yeah, got it. And you can do the same on YouTube if they allow Google Ads on YouTube. But yeah, you can just go laser like what's working on Google? You can apply that to Facebook.

Got it, yeah. So basically if you see that a lot of your ads are showing up in the retargeting for or Better Homes and Gardens on the Better Homes and Gardens website, you can actually go to Facebook and say, hey, target fans of Better Homes and Garden with your ad.

Exactly. Because it's the same customer. They're just seeking some entertainment when they're on Facebook, even with they're not reading something from Better Homes and Gardens, it's the same customer. Surely it makes sense.

To target them when they're on social media.

Makes perfect sense. Again, it's just applying all the data to another medium where they're going to be hanging out anyway. It's just a different time in their journey really.

Exactly. That's exactly right. So yeah, that's kind of like how they're connected, I guess. And that's what I guess many people don't realize is the connectivity of the two platforms. And we can do the same the other way. Right. So we can. If you're doing interest targeting on, on Facebook, for example. So for this particular bricks client, we were targeting people who are interested in like renovation and all this kind of stuff. We Google have what's called in market audiences. So Google is shifting actually with their whole AI away from kind of targeting content sites like we were just talking about to more targeting who you are as a person, which is like what's called identity based targeting, which is pretty much what Facebook is. Right. So irrespective of what they're doing right now, I'm targeting an individual based on who they are as a person. Okay. And Google is investing heavily in this. And so one of the ways that they represent this is what's called the in market audiences, which is, take me for an example, right. I love cooking, okay. And I'm always looking at cooking recipes. Contrast that to the fact that I am really not a car person.

About cars. I'm not interested in them at all. So Google knows this about me. They know the fact that I never go to car websites, but they know that I'm always on cooking websites. And so if I suddenly start going to car websites, Google says, well, hang on a minute, Alana doesn't do this. Like she normally doesn't kind of, you know, read articles about Volvo's new thing coming, whatever coming out, or Tesla or whatever.

Someone stole her phone.

Yeah, exactly. Really? I know nothing, right. So if I suddenly start doing this as unusual activity for me, they will put me in what's called an in market audience for let's say buying a new car. And that is actually one of the in market audiences on Google. So it's very short term.

Intent based searching. So if I go to all those different websites and they have this data actually because they have the Chrome browser and they've got Google, Google and YouTube and they've got lots of means of getting data.

Yeah, well, I mean almost every website on the Internet has Google Analytics installed, which is also a way that Google is kind of keeping track of where people are going.

That's right. And they've got the phone and they've got Google apps for business. I mean, everyone talks about Facebook having so much data on people. Well, let me tell you, Google has got the same, if not more, yet no one seems to talk about it.

You know, Google also seems to own everybody's email these days too. So they're actually, they know what things you're emailing about and what sort of email lists you're on.

I would say Google wins for the most part.

They win the dart award for sure.

Yeah.

So yeah, basically if they detect and they notice unusual activity, they will will plonk you in a, what's called an in market audience. It's very short term behavior. Right. So there are in market audiences based on that and then they've got what's called affinity audiences, which is sort of your long term behavior. So my affinity audience would be cooking because I'm always looking at recipes and I'm always getting, trying to get ideas, et cetera. So my point is we can match our Facebook targeting to Google in market audiences. So for my client that we've been talking about, there are in market audiences about people who are actively researching home and garden activity. And a subset of that audience are people who are in the market or actively researching home improvement stuff like flooring, kitchen, bathroom cabinets, painting, plumbing tools. That's exactly my target customer. And I know it works because it's, I've done it on Facebook. So I apply that to Google.

And that sort of then transfers to the other, back to where we were before with the display quadrant. My in market audiences, hence where a visual would come in really handy right now.

Yeah, I mean the point is that, yeah, it all kind of goes back to the corners. You know, you're doing all of this stuff to kind of feed the remarketing again.

Yeah, well, it's kind of like you're sort of starting with the people that are already kind of going to your website, looking at who they are, what their sort of actions are, and then sort of just slowly expanding out more and more and more as you get more and more data on who these people are that are already coming to your site.

Correct? That's exactly right. And if you find those audiences work especially on the Google side of things, you can apply that in market audience to your search traffic. You can apply in market audiences to search traffic and also YouTube. So it's like well, we can test it here first and if it works well, then it makes sense to apply it to the search quadrant and to the YouTube quadrant.

So yeah, I guess it's a process of really systematically building out your puzzle based on data. And if something doesn't work well, then it doesn't make sense to apply it to a different quadrant. It's like, okay, that didn't work. We've got to shift gears and we got to try something a little bit different.

Yeah, and you mentioned, I don't know if it was before we started recording, but everyone's puzzle looks slightly different depending on what their data shows, probably their target market. So really it doesn't mean like you need to do every single thing but you 100%.

And in fact, like, you know, for my business, which I basically sell TR on this stuff, right, My paid traffic puzzle is I do a lot of YouTube ads actually for people who are searching for training on exactly what I provide. Like that is totally my target audience. People are actively going to YouTube to search for the exact training that I provide. So my YouTube quadrant is a lot more complex compared to my disposal, which is I just, just do display retargeting and that my own business is, is sufficient. In my search quadrant I do search retargeting and I do brand traffic, et cetera. So my paid traffic puzzle looks completely different to my clients paid traffic puzzle. And that's because our target customers are completely different.

And just to clarify for the brand traffic, what you're referring to is when people search your name or your business's name or, or basically the solution, aware people that already kind of know who you are or know what your product's name are, you want to make sure you have ads for any of those people that are specifically searching for you, Right?

Correct. And so one thing that people often say to me is, well, why would I bother doing that? I rank number one for my brand traffic anyway. And there are a few reasons why I'm a big fan of it. The first is if I obviously am owning my own real estate and people bid on other people's brands all the time, it's completely legal. You just can't say that you're that other brand. And I always show an example in Australia, I actually tried in America, it didn't work. But in Australia, if you do a Google search for Pizza Hut, right, The first ad that comes up is a 50% off from Domino's Pizza.

That's awesome.

So I say, who he wants halfway half price pizza. Right.

I mean that's like, where I feel like most people should just, I don't know, I mean, obviously start on the remarketing, but it's like, come on, at least own your own name. I know our buddy Mike Rhodes, another Aussie, he was like, always fricking go on your brand 100%.

And you also have the benefit of sending them where you want them to go. Right. If you solely rely on Google.

Sending you that organic traffic, they're deciding where they're going to send that person to compared to if you maybe want to send them to some kind of landing page or an offer page or whatever it is, you have that level of control at your fingertips of where you can send them. And it's also super cheap. Like, you pay, I don't know, like 10, 20 cents bidding on your brand. I mean, it's, it's not expensive traffic.

It's not like you get a lot of competition, typically. Unless you're a Pizza Hut, maybe.

Well, I also think there's. I don't know if this is true or not. You may know better than I do. But I also have a theory that if you're bidding on your own keyword and the domain name matches that keyword, Google's going to kind of put that one above the rest, kind of going, okay, this is the actual company they were searching for.

Exactly. And I've seen some sneak people do sneaky things. And obviously I always have my ad radar on. I was doing a. I was trying to search for super metrics, and just because I couldn't be bothered typing the URL in the URL bar, I just went to Google, typed in supermetrics, and the first ad that came up was an ad from. I've never heard of it. Funnel IO, maybe you've heard of it saying, don't go with super metrics before you try funnel. I'm like, I mean, come on, guys. Like, that's bad. But, you know, that sort of plants a seed of doubting people.

People like, yeah, well, one, one thing I, I know I've actually run into this in the past where I will actually put another company's brand name inside of our ad. Where I'll say like, hey, don't. Not, not exactly that. But I'll say, hey, this pro. Something to the effect of like, this product is better than, you know, the name they, they just searched for. And I've actually had Google turn off those ads and say that you're not allowed to use this brand's name in your ad. So, so I Know, I don't know where they draw the line on that, but I know it's happened to us in the past where they've turned off ads because of brand names instead of our ads.

Yeah, look, I think. No doubt that ad, probably they were forced to take it down, and I managed to grab a screenshot of it when it was live, which is probably a bit of a fluke. But the point is, people are always toeing the line with this stuff, and I just. They're always. I guess it's always unfortunate in the competitive world that we're in. You know, people will do that kind of stuff.

So, yeah, I guess that kind of outlines the concept of the puzzle in that the different pieces are connected to each other, and that one piece of a puzzle can help you fill in and populate a different piece in a different section of the puzzle based on the fact that it's working. And at the end of the day, the picture of your puzzle is your target customer, because that's what it's all about. It's about getting in front of your target customer in a nice way and helping you solve their problems.

Yeah.

And we'll share that visual as well. But I think just the explanation and us sort of talking through it, I've got a pretty good idea of what you're explaining. I also have the benefit of having the visual in front of me, but I totally get it, even if I didn't have the visual. So I think we did a good job there.

And I think that the big thing that's resonating throughout all this is that it's a holistic thing that should work together. So not one platform is independent. Shouldn't just leverage one platform. It's dangerous anyway. If you ever get slapped or banned from, say, Google or Facebook or whatever, or if crazy restrictions or competitions, I don't know, whatever can happen, you don't want to rely on one. But I love the whole customer journey. It's really just being natural. With a journey to a solution, not everyone will discover you the same exact way. You don't want to force the journey. You want to catch them where they're at.

Yeah. And you kind of start with the hottest audience that you're going after with the ads, and then you're kind of getting slightly cooler with each progressive ad that you're setting up.

Yeah. And I think it's also people. I've had people come to me so many times, I just want to spend a ton of money. And I'm like, well, let's just, let's just be really strategic about it, you know, and let's just start small so we can always like my goal is to always be profitable, you know, that's why we always start with retargeting. And let's use, as I said, those insights and build out different areas in a really calculated and systematic approach so that we. The worst thing I want is someone to have spent all this money and they've got no idea if it worked because they're throwing a bunch of spaghetti against a wal and they've kind of got no way of attributing it, you know, which. Which really happens a lot. There's a lot of like, let's just do this. I want to go hard, you know, versus let's just be really calm and calculated and systematic about this and do it in the most strategic way. And actually we will then never have to turn campaigns off and they can just run ongoing because they're profitable.

Yeah, yeah. There's something that you. We talked about earlier on in this episode and I want to kind of jump back to it again where you mentioned that you had some ads that were running on Facebook and because people were seeing them on Facebook, they were going to Google and actually searching out those terms. Have you sort of figured out a way to kind of engineer that so that because of your Facebook ads or maybe your display network ads or these other ads running, you're actually driving people back to the search engines. Have you found a way to kind of force that a little bit or is that just kind of something that naturally happens?

I think it's something that naturally happens and I think it's very market dependent. I think people are naturally curious. And so if in your Facebook ad you're talking about something that they don't really understand, then they might then jump across to search and to get a bit more information and to get a bit more clarification or in the example that I gave where it was an expensive event that was going to be running and we were never going to make a sale straight from a Facebook ad. Of course, I wouldn't expect to. I would expect people to do their research. People are going to Google to check out their reviews. They're going to check out that person's YouTube channel to see if they are legit or the reviews would make them legit or not. You know, they're doing their homework on that particular person, you know. So I think it depends on what market you're in. It depends on what you're selling and depends on whether it's something they understand versus, you know. So for example, like one of the first examples I gave with this cleaning product, you know, had I not, I mean someone gave me the recommendation of it, so I went there. But had they targeted me cold traffic on Facebook first personally, what I would have done is I would have gone to Google and I would have seen what their reviews are because I have some level of trust in Google reviews. Whether it's right or not, I don't know. But they claim to have 30,000 five star reviews. I want to check that out. I want to see is it legit and I want to see actually what their bad reviews are just like on Amazon. Right? We all do research on Amazon and I personally go straight to the one star reviews and you're never going to get all five stars. And I totally appreciate that. But I want to know what the complaints are.

Totally makes sense.

And I want to see also the product in action. And so therefore I want to see it on YouTube. I want to see how it works, give me an experience that I can imagine of what it's going to be like when it's in my home. Which is why I was so disappointed in this retargeting campaign for these people because it was such a missed opportunity. And they could have seen from the product page with over 200,000 views that people, people are watching this stuff. It's not like it's not of interest. Like it is of interest. Of course it is. That is what sells cleaning products is seeing it cut through grease. You know, as a mom in my head I'm thinking, am I sacrificing a good cleaning product just for no toxins will show me that I'm not. And then I'm your best customer ever.

Yeah, no. It probably pains you so much to see campaigns just kind of like, like either non existent on remarketing or any of these ads or just like it falls short when it's just getting good. You're like, come on, come on, you.

Guys can do better.

Well, talk about really briefly. I don't want to keep you much longer. I know we're going a little over is just budgets just like if there's any benchmarks. Because I know it's such a common question. We get around ads and I know there's no one good answer either. But just starting with like remarketing to get this process started. Do you have any good business set.

Some expectations of costs kind of thing? Maybe people just starting out.

Okay, first of all, it really depends on Your industry firstly. And it also depends on how much traffic you get to your site, generally speaking. But for most businesses, and I've dealt with tiny ones and I've dealt with big ones and if we talk to the middle of the group, let's say most people can get by very nicely with a retargeting campaign on I think even $10 a day. Because personally I like creating short term retargeting lists. So 14 days, someone doesn't come back in 14 days, then maybe I don't want to spend that much money on them. So we created short term lists and I like to segment people based on time since last visit. So I might have a retargeting campaign for my people who've come back in the come to my website in the last week. They don't come back in that week, they've fallen off that short term list and they're on that next list. And if they keep not coming back, well, I've taken the hint, like that's cool, you're not interested. Peace out, we'll go our separate ways and I won't continue to remark to you and therefore I don't have to spend a lot of money.

Yeah, that's smart too because I mean, I guess you can do things where like if they just were on your site within seven days, you're just trying to bring them back again. And then maybe after seven days you could change the messaging of your ad so it says, hey, did you forget about us? Here's a coupon code or something like that to sort of bring them back again and you know, really get them re engaged. And then after 14 days, chances are maybe they went with a competitor or the problem was solved in some other way and they're just not interested in anymore.

That's exactly right. And if you have a business which does get decent traffic, and when I say decent, I mean probably more than 20,000 people a month, let's say I like to filter out the people that have bounced from my site. So don't even bother retargeting people who spent I think less than 3 seconds on your site or 5 seconds. And we do that through Google Analytics. We filter those people out. So I'm not even bothered bothering to retarget those people. I'm only talking to people who actually spent some time on my site. And therefore, yeah, like once again, you spoke with your clicks or lack of clicks or the back button. That's cool, like you're not interested. We go our separate ways. And I don't Even engage in a conversation with these people and I don't have to waste my budget on them.

Yeah, I mean, they probably clicked over thinking it was one thing, Saw your product and went, oh, that's not what I'm thinking of. And then clicked away real quick.

Not interesting all the time.

Let's not spend any more money on you.

That's right. And so therefore I don't have to have big budgets for retargeting. And with short term lists and filtering out that bounce traffic, I think you can get by really easily on even $10 a day. I mean, maybe you make your budgets higher, but often like you might not spend it. Like people don't click on your ad, then you don't pay. Right? That's right. Obviously. But all YouTube depends on what your video is.

I love this. I mean, this is just very manageable and it's something that every business owner should be running. The budgets are there. Especially if you have a good offer. You gotta have a good offer. Like we said. We talk about that all the time too.

Yeah. I constantly say nobody ever has a traffic problem. You have a conversion problem because traffic's easy if you got high conversions.

I couldn't agree with you more. Exactly. It's about. But I think I love just dealing with what we've got before we even buy any traffic. Let's just convert. If we can increase a conversion rate even a couple of percent, that's some big bottom dollars on, you know, on the bottom line.

This is just really cool. I think when people see the visuals too, they're gonna be like, oh, I get it. Everything is actually connected. That's the big aha that I like about this too. And the then obviously listening to you and watching it in tandem or even going back and then thinking about it.

Yeah. Well, it also gives such a great framework for how to approach advertising because I think there's so much information and so much people talking about ads out there and so many people teaching different things. And I think people get confused. Well, should I go run cold ads first or should I go run retargeting? And if I am doing cold ads, what keywords should I be targeting with those cold ads? And I feel like what you just explained in this episode just kind of sums it all up. Just follow this process and you'll know exactly which keywords to go after.

That's right. And as you say, it is a process. And I feel like you're 100% right. There is so much confusion and noise in the market. You got to do this and you got to do that. And it's just like, let's just cut through the noise, right? Let's just turn the volume down of the noise and let's just be really calm and strategic and we'll just take one step at a time. And it's all very systematic and measured and with trying to keep costs in.

Line the whole time island and the approach of always be profitable, I love that. And I think like that's most people, most people don't hear that when ads are a part of the, you know, the story or whatever the strategy is like, oh man, I gotta pay for this. I'm like, no, you can be profitable.

We so often hear like, oh, you're probably gonna lose money for your first three months, but then you'll figure it out and start making money. It's like, does it have to be that way though?

Look, don't get me wrong, I mean, you know, not every campaign is successful and you know, and, and often there is a back end process that we maybe need to wait some time for that back end process to kick in to recoup that money.

Right.

But I guess it's this method is what I've kind of learned through running a dedicated PPC agency for, for so long now in so many different industries that it's the most, I guess, the safest way to do it, you know, without blowing your budget. Because I've say what, I've audited hundreds if not thousands of ad accounts and I've seen people just waste so much money and it's just their hard earned money and it like, it really pains me to see it and there's lots of little gotchas along the way and they just, it's, it's tough to navigate out there.

Well, let's quickly, let's talk about what you got and how you can help folks if people want to go deeper as well. Because I know you have an agency and education, you have all sorts of stuff available.

Podcast of your own.

Podcast too.

Yeah, it's true. Yeah, I've got a lot going on. Well, I actually don't do that much agency work these days. I'm kind of shifting away from it. But my agency is called Green Arrow Digital digital dot com. But I pretty much just teach people these days@teachtraffic.com and I've got a whole course coming out on this whole puzzle concept. So if your listeners want to go to teachtraffic.com puzzle, they can find out more information about that. It's going to be a whole in depth course. I'm actually that's how I'm using my self isolation time right now. Is building out that course smart?

It's a great domain name too. It is very easy to remember and you know exactly what you.

You're getting.

That's right. And yeah. And if people like this kind of stuff, you can check out my podcast which is also called Teach Traffic.

Sweet. I love it. This was so cool. Easy to follow. And again, everyone, the diagrams and links to like the links that you just said there. We'll link them all in the show notes.

So I have a sudden urge to go scrap all of my current ads and rebuild new ones.

I wonder why.

We thought we were doing good. Geez, a lot. You just made us look better.

No, I'm just kidding. The ones that are doing good, I'm not turning off, but I've got. I've literally made so many notes about some ad ideas for the current offers.

We're running time to implement. It's awesome.

Dang, right?

Absolutely.

Isolation time. Let's go. Implementation time. Alrighty. Well, thank you so very much for taking the time and stay safe too.

No, thank you guys. And I'm a big fan of your podcast and I've been listening to your episodes for awesome. So keep up the great work and thank you so much for having me on. The honor is all mine.

Awesome. I appreciate it and we'll chat again soon.

Thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you dug it. I know Joe and I dug it. I actually kicked Joe out of the room. He's not here right now because I wanted to tell you about a tool that I really, really dig. We use it in our business. We recommend it all the time. It's called Easy Webinar. And it's a tool that lets you do live webinars, automated webinars, hybrid webinars, and you know, pretty much any other kind of webinar if there are other kinds of webinars. But anyway, this tool is kind of like your all in one, do it all tool for anything webinar related. It's Easy Webinar. It's put out by a dude named Casey Zman. He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's a killer episode. He's a really smart dude, but his software is amazing. It does everything. It's, you know, the title tells you exactly what it does. It's an easy webinar platform and we use this in our business. To run automated webinars all the time. We don't do a lot of live webinars these days. We like to do the kind of automated webinars where somebody can register and then it, you know, they can either watch it like 15 minutes later or they can watch it the next day, but it's just kind of always running. And it's a system that helps us make autopilot sales off of our webinars. Super cool tool. If you haven't tried it yet, you know, it's, it's. It's an amazing tool. And Casey is actually hooking you up. He said for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart, I can't believe he's doing this, but he said for listeners of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, he's giving 25% off of the membership to use easy webinar. It's already super, super inexpensive for what it does and all the cool features it has. But he's hooking you up with 25% off. Because you're a listener of Hustle and flowchart. Go to easywebinar.com hustle. That's where you can get that 25% off discount. That's easywebinar.com hustole. It's a awesome tool. You're gonna dig it, so just go grab it. Check it out. Easywebinar.com hustle See ya. No, not see ya. You'll hear me in the next show. I don't know. I don't know how to close these things. Go get Easy Webinar. Talk to you later.

Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address, and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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