Innovating Tomorrow: Cracking the AI Code with Nathaniel Hunter

AI will not replace people. People using AI are going to replace people.

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working part time. You know, I was a chronic hustle mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and, and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger. So that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy. Hey. Hey. Welcome back to another fascinating episode and this one I've genuinely been wanting to release for a long time. And prior to recording this episode, the guest that I have today who is a veteran and, and it's, it's rare to say that near impossible in most cases, a veteran in the AI artificial intelligence, machine learning space, he's been doing this in many industries and you're, you're going to learn about him in this episode here. We've had many, many conversations prior to recording this kind of setting the stage for our own minds. So in this episode, I truly believe this is a mind expanding episode for you around this topic of AI and genuinely the limitless possibilities and the responsibilities that AI brings to each and every one of us. And yes, that means you listening to this conversation, even if you feel like you haven't been involved in AI or are interested in AI or if you're using AI just for like the tools and automations and cool things, well, you have that responsibility as well. So Nathaniel Hunter is my friend who I'm bringing on this podcast and he is a genuine friend and expect many episodes to follow this one. You'll, you'll understand why shortly. And what he does is he emphasizes the importance of understanding AI for what it is and actually embracing how the responsibility is in our hands. It's in all of our hands and integrating AI into our business and everything we do is, is happening if we like it or not. But right now where we're at, it's just scratching the surface of what AI can do. So what Nathaniel is doing is bringing kind of a wider view of what's to come in the months, in the years to come. And I'm not talking like 10 years down the line. I'm talking just right around the corner. So right now is a perfect time for you as an entrepreneur to take control and leverage AI to accelerate your vision. Fail faster, because this allows us to iterate really quickly and. But remember that this is a compounded effort. This thing is growing all the time, and we're just beginning. So this isn't. We're not just talking about the business side. We're actually talking about how this seeps into education for everyone in the world. Daily life, how we interact with basic needs throughout our days, human connection. We talk about the cultural shift and how this is literally in the hands of everyone. It's not just in the hands of, you know, government or people who are developing the technology. It's in every single one of us. So this is an episode that I feel like you want to take some time and definitely understand and expect more to come, because I'm deeply fascinated. And I also feel the responsibility because it's an interesting time to be alive. I keep saying that phrase, and I believe it more than ever. And Nathaniel, I trust more than anyone to really deep dive into what this all means and to really understand what's happening and. And the future of what's to come, so we can all create a brighter future together and be intentional and remember that it is our responsibility. So without further ado, enjoy Nathaniel Hunter, and open your eyes, strap on in, take some notes, and I'll catch you in the episode. We're doing this, Nathaniel. We're live or recorded. I always like to say the live thing. You and I are live and the listener. Happy to have you with us. So appreciate you, man. It's a long time coming, it feels like, since our chats over the last month or two.

Yeah, by far. But a nice continuation of them, so it's natural.

Yeah. So I got to give some shout outs quickly to Lee Richter because she made this happen in the first place, so lots of love for her. She has an episode that went out. I won't time it right now, but look in the archives. It's not that old. And she blew my mind. She opened my mind to a lot when it comes to AI technology, the speed of things, but also the humanities side. And I think that's where you and I connected over, you know, mezcal and a lot of time in the sun one afternoon.

Yeah, I'll second that. About Lee, she is. She has a superpower of just knowing when one person should meet another person. She doesn't always have the ability to tell you why right at that moment, but she just. She can feel some. She taps into the way. Lines of energy between people and just like, you two need to talk, you know, and I'll let you figure out why. But she's a super connector that way.

There's a lot to learn from her. I love people like that. I feel like I'm a. I'm a pretty good connector. But, yeah, when I saw Lee and how she works and that was the. When we met was the first time I met her in person, I was like, oh, wow, she's on it. Like, she's, you know, battling the phones, but she's like, there's a reason. I mean, she's. She's doing it right. And that's. That's a pro at work.

Yeah, she's an orchestrator of just monumental proportions. Like, if she had been a conductor, she would be, like, running the Philharmonic.

Oh, yeah.

Right. So.

But instead, you're doing stuff with the Pope and, you know, doing.

Yeah, yeah. Just. Just other small things.

I mean, just pulling the curtain back. You and I, we've connected on a lot of ways in so many ways, you know, and the. Not only in the tech and this AI space that we originally came together on and how Lee introduced me to you is her AI guy, basically. I think you're way more than that, obviously. And, yeah, we connected on life, family, you know, the ways that we see the world and future. And that's where these conversations. We promise not to go too wide, but still wide enough to keep it interesting. So I think this will be a series of things to come on the show here with you.

Yeah, I would love to create it as an ongoing. Because this is. We've talked about it. Right. This concept of. Of thought disruption and being able to kind of change people's perspective on where things are going, what's. What's coming for the human race and what we're up against and how we can kind of lean into it to make it the most amazing experience we've ever had collectively together.

So there's hope for us all.

Going deep already.

I know.

All right, what's the next step here? Well, and this is why it intrigued me so much, because you're not out there, and you're not really out there talking a lot about it publicly. You're doing the work, and that's what. Yeah, I know that's changing a little bit for you, so that's going to be interesting.

Yeah, I feel. I feel like it's. I feel like it's about the right time to start to start speaking publicly about it. There's, there's a bunch of others that are out there, you know, Mogodot, you know, you have Peter Diamantes, you have Ahmad from Stability AI. There's a bunch of thought leaders in the, the AI space, but it's really the humanistic space. It's AI is just this tool and this utility that goes beyond that in the future. And that's really what they're out there doing is they're starting to speak about what is coming for the human race and you know, starting to kind of ring, I think last time we talked the town crier, right, like back and forth, running through the streets, you know, like back then that was our social media, which was a person running on a horse through a town screaming out what was happening right now.

Whatever.

Exactly. Yeah, right. And we've evolved since then, you know, plotting into like our notifications on here via Instagram and all these other places, you know, to try to get the word out to the rest of the human population in terms of what, what is changing, what's happening at a global scale that most people don't even perceive.

And that was, I remember walking away from that legitimate three hour chat or plus maybe it was, it was. That's why I'm like, okay, good people. Like this is very interesting. And then there was something you said. It was like 90, maybe even 99% of the people around us, at least we're there at this resort, don't know what's coming. They have no clue in terms of the tech and how that's going to affect humanity the way that we live. And I mean there were so many implications and things. I wonder if there, if you want to maybe rattle off some of them that quickly come to mind to open some loops here.

One, one, I'll give a shout out to Mogadot and one of his most recent books, Scary Smart, which is an incredible read and has a bit of a dystopian, but for a reason. It's all about interrupting the pattern that we have as human beings in terms of some of these things that we don't understand. Right. Just as a human population. And AI is one of those things that we don't realize is so already embedded in everything that we do from the algorithms that are on Facebook and Instagram at, you know, Facebook right now, today, as we stand right now, 2.9 billion people per month, you know, monthly active users, 2 billion a day. And Instagram is creeping up there too. In terms of 2 billion, a little over 2 billion monthly active users. Most of that is algorithmic and AI is driving a lot of that in terms of what they're seeing and you know, how stuff is surfacing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, right. In terms of where AI is being used, from everything from traffic signals to, you know, traffic flow, to how, you know, gas is delivered and water is delivered to different areas of the country or even your localities and stuff, it's, it's pretty pervasive and most people don't even realize it, you know, in terms of just how long we've been using it. We've used early versions of AI in the film work we did on like the Matrix sequels, and that was back in early 2000, 2002, 2003. Right. And so the concepts have been around for a long, long time in Silicon Valley in terms of machine learning and artificial intelligence and training. It and it really kind of leapfrogged in the mid 2013-2015 range with DeepMind and others, with Google in 2016 really. And things just started accelerating very quickly from there forward. And so I'm not going to get into all the details. Right. Mo does a much better representation of that. He was physically there at Google and other places, you know, with others that live through some of these bigger. And so I'll, I'll hand the torch over to them to explain those, you know, in great detail. But the reality is there's a massive amount of change that's coming and preparing the human race for it and doing it in a humanistic way and being open minded to really embracing it and kind of leaning in. You know, a lot of people right now in the AR space are just plowing forward. Right. And entrepreneurs, which, you know, I am, you are, that's part of how we connected. You know, I'm a serial entrepreneur my whole life, since I was a little child, you know, and we'll get into the carnival stuff at some point in the future. You know, growing up as a carny, having businesses since the, my own personal business since the age of like 17 and growing up in the Bay Area where there's this disruptive thought constantly, I swear it's in the water, but it's just, it's a mental state when you're in Silicon Valley and all that surrounds that, to constantly be disrupting the status quo. Right. And I think that's such a interesting pathway that we need to start taking on as a human race in general because we're going to be. Suddenly everything is going to be dynamically changing around us faster than most people can comprehend. You know, when most people think of change. And a lot of big leaders out there will tell you right now that anyone that can path out what's going to happen in the next five years, beyond five years, like it used to be that we could actually say, hey, here's my 10 year prospectus. Here's the way I think see things going. That is impossible to do right now. No one with any sort of great efficacy can actually say that they can tell you what's going to happen five years from now and beyond because that's going to be such a dramatic shift and it's going to be, you know, there's going to be so many trials and tribulations along the way. But it's such an exciting thing at the same time in terms of how we can interact with it and how we can use it as a superpower. But how do we communicate with essentially a super intelligence, right, that is already smarter? It literally has our entire collective consciousness embedded in it. Right. And that's just. We're only talking about OpenAI. You can talk about Bard and Anthropic and all of these others that are out there that are all building their own models. And then what's going to eventually happen is models will start to combine, right. And then you're going to have the, the whole totality of the human's history embedded into the machine that can process data at a scale that has never been seen before. So we're marching into completely unknown territory here. Right. Which is exciting and scary all at the same time. And my whole purpose with what I've been doing is, you know, meeting others like yourself and creating really good conversation around what are our expectations, right. How can we lean into this stuff that is going to challenge our way of thinking as a human race in general?

I like that expectations is a big one and I think that's that, that hit it on the head of like let's, let's set some healthy. I don't know if there's a good word for it, but some expectations for the years to come, maybe even the. I don't know, what would you say two years? Like, is there a way you're planning right now with what, you know, five's obviously out too far out.

Yeah. Most of the plans that we have are in the, in the 18 month to two year timeframe. But even that, I mean, this is not a joke. You know, another shout out here is to To Matt, business partner, you know, in the past. And he's out there on the front lines with his, you know, Matt Wolf, that is, sorry, kind of really driving the latest tools and technology that is being released literally on a daily basis to the point where if he takes a week off and goes, comes back and his next podcast is like, oh my God, I can't even believe he.

Told me about that yesterday. Yeah, we had a whole chat about. Yeah, we caught up finally. It was a great chat.

Anytime he takes a little time off, it's like, it's insane the amount of things that are changing in a seven day period. Typically every single day feels like a week to two weeks or a month even. And so when a week passes by and you haven't kept up the speed on the latest and greatest things that are happening, especially in a week like last week, which was massive, so many massive announcements and probably the biggest since March, and yet almost every week has that kind of feel to it now where it's like, oh, these are the biggest announcements. And then, you know, a couple of weeks go by and then the next biggest announcements. And it's, it's, it's happening at such a rapid pace, it's hard to even keep up.

Definitely shout out to Matt because I know he's sifting through a lot of this news and what he told me was like, it's almost like it seems companies have to do that. That at this point is like, pump them. I have something here, look at me. Or they're like quickly out of the picture in a way because there's so much noise.

It's the fallibility of the human race that we try to jump onto things that are fads initially and then those fads either burn out or they become a trend. This is not a fad. This is not a trend. This is a culture.

Yeah.

This is not, this is not even a trend. This is a cultural reimagining and a cultural shift that is going to start out as a. Most people see it as a fad. It will become a trend and that will be embedded much the way that the iPhone changed how we were literally having a conversation last night at a party for a close friend, Paul Hoffman, wonderful guy. And we're talking about this, just about how this shift in the cultural sense is going to be so profound and it's, it's scaring a lot of people. Right? You see the major. I live in Los Angeles, right, right outside of. Right on the other side of the Getty center in the hills of Encino. And when you drive through LA right now, there's 160,000 total people, not in one spot, but, you know, actors and actresses from the SAG, AFTRA that are on strike. There's 11,000 people that are on strike from the WGA, the Writers Guild of America, and that's a lot of people that literally are the heart and soul, along with producers and all the grips and all the, you know, support staff to create film and TV and content as we know it. The last time something like this happened, we literally. The Kardashians and non scripted TV came out of the last massive strike, right? And it changed how we as humans actually desire and ingest content. Right. Like before, I mean, we had like, what was it, the real world, right. That was an unscripted show, but it wasn't like a mass. I mean, a lot of people like younger kids. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And AI is one of their biggest things because they understand that there's this massive shift that's happening with AI that people are trying to write scripts. And, you know, there's a company guy who I used to work with, Pete Billington from Fable, and they just came out with some news, right. Just recently we worked together at a. At a startup. 2007, it was a startup specifically for Bob Zemeckis. And we created basically a massive Disney studio up in Marin county, up in the north bay. Grew from 15 people in an art studio to 600 people across four locations in 30 months while producing two films. It was the most insane startup experience ever. And they're taking some of that knowledge and stuff and building AI creation tools, right, for helping to tell story lines and think of it like putting people in a fish tank, right? In terms of like, like the Truman show, right? Think of that kind of concept or, you know, for those of us who are older enough to remember Sea Monkeys, right? And they like to see the Sea Monkeys and see. Right. But having that AI essentially drive a daily life of a virtual character that anyone can kind of poke their head into and see, that is essentially like the Truman show, but using AI as the actual actors and actresses and even the story writing itself orchestrated by humans, but still AI nonetheless, Right? And that's just, that's just one example of how things are shifting and changing. And we're going to see a dramatic shift in terms of how people consume content, how people use it to accelerate their jobs, how entrepreneurs use it to accelerate their businesses, right? And that's been a huge focus of mine is how do we help businesses, how do we do it ourselves? From. From the businesses that we have and the disruptive group of companies that I'm part of. How do we help the founders and the business owners that we're connected to utilize AI to accelerate their visions, to get to market faster, to essentially fail faster? And the whole pitch is like if you had a million dollars that you had, let's, whether it's investment or money that you had basically pulled together to start your own company and let's even say a hundred thousand dollars. Right. Let's be more realistic. A hundred grand. I want to start my own company. Typically, the way it's worked in entrepreneur land is I go out there, I spend that money, I try to create a product that has a product market fit, I market it, etc. And I hope to God it works. Right. Because I don't have a lot of room for failure because a hundred thousand is not a lot of money. And you can burn through that like that. And so how do you help entrepreneurs basically do that in one tenth the amount of effort and time and cost? So a million becomes 100,000. Now that entrepreneur has 10 times that they can fail, which is part of a business. Failure is something that most people think is a negative thing. But if you look at all of the great scientists and all the great inventors and entrepreneurs over time, the ones that were the most successful embrace failure as part of the process. That's right. And how can we get people to fail faster so they can succeed faster? And AI is there to help us accelerate that and also give us more time. Right. I'm a parent. You're a parent. How do we, as entrepreneurs and business owners, family men, friends. How do we spend more time not chained to our desks, right? Not, not, not engaging with our families and our friends around us and real humanistic experiences, but still drive towards success where we're not burning out. Right. And humans are a very social animal. We're very social creatures and we need that connectivity to other human beings to feel fulfilled, or at least I do. You do. And many people around me do. Right. And I would argue every human being does. Right.

Show up differently.

Yeah. The one, the ones that don't necessarily just don't have the tools or the access to what they desire. But we're, we're creatures of a very social magnitude, you know, comes from when we were apes. And they've done studies where they took great study to check on. I can't remember who did it, but there was. They took all of these baby monkeys back in like the 60s and 70s. And they positioned it with real mother monkeys. Like I think if I'm not mistaken, it was chimpanzees. And then they took it and they created a robotic looking monkey that was hard metal. Right. And also another one that was a plush one. Right. And then they looked at what happened to all of these different baby chimpanzees as they tried to connect, right. With their quote unquote parents. They need the social skill to feel loved. And they found dramatic results for those that didn't have a real connection. That the plushie version was okay, but like the hard version that wasn't even something that had type of, you know, any type of motive, expression or feeling to it in terms of touch was horrific in terms of what it did to those poor little monkeys in terms of their personality, their actual acting out. And we're just big kids at the end of the day, right. All we are as adults, we just have a lot of filters put in front of us for all the things that, you know, we've basically placed in our path to allow us to live this life. You know, we do, we put a lot of things in front of us to kind of make sure that we don't go insane or crazy with the amount of information that's constantly coming in.

Yeah. And it's not stopping, it's speeding up. And I know that's just technology in general. And what I'm hearing, and I know from kind of your ethos and your background is you've worked with some really large companies, some studios, entertainment. I feel like entertainment's always on the forefront of big technological breakthroughs. You know, in your case with the Matrix, it was, you know, 20 plus years ahead of time using some AI there. And I know the mission now is almost like to democratize this for everyone. It's even the playing field for the entrepreneur, for everyone to leverage these tools and this technology. And now might be like just the eye opening phase where we're just starting to hear get it and seeing how that integrates with everything. I'd love to get some thoughts on that.

Yeah. I'm old enough now to have been through multiple transitions and had the abundance in my life and the blessing to be in the right place at the right time for so many different massive changes. You know, both from working in the feature film and gaming industry early on in my career, to going into social games with Facebook when it was exploding, to moving into AR and VR and then to moving that into the AI space. And it's Just been and scalable business and scalable, you know, like millions and millions of people on a daily active basis trying products. And so it's been this really, really interesting kind of pathway to get here. And there's, it's very cool because it's all starting to converge now. That's, that's the interesting part. It's all, it's all converging and laying out this path that from the previous side of my career when I first started out was, you know, working on massive supercomputers, these Silicon Graphics boxes that were upwards of quarter million dollars that sat on your desk, you know, 40,000, 50,000, $80,000 for the software. We were getting paid 40, 50 grand a year, right. If that like when I first started, not even that in the early 90s and we had to start programming all this stuff and then starting to, you know, dive through all of these tools that couldn't create 100 foot waves for perfect so storm. And it was a very open collaboration between like Industrial Light and Magic and Tippet Studio and Lucasfilm and BOSS Film and all these other cool companies that we shared a lot of. You know, we had highly skilled technicians that were artists typically that had to learn how to deal with computers that were essentially similar to computers that were, you know, like the Cray supercomputer and stuff. Like the processing units that were in these things were insane. You know, the render farms that we built back in the 90s were in the tens of millions of dollars. And we were, we were pushing hard drive storage to, you know, exabytes and petabytes long before anybody else in the E commerce space was and stuff. And so is watching all of this stuff come up was. You're just in it at the time we had no idea what was happening, right? We were just enjoying working and creating all these films and all this really cool stuff. And it just kind of, it kind of just organically grew into these, you know, into all of these other industries. In terms of the stuff that we learned, you know, from the technology side, Nvidia came from the games and the film world, right. And then got into massive processing of large amounts of data. And they're like a mass, they lean into AI really early on, machine learning, right. In terms of just Google has as well, so is Microsoft, so has, you know, Facebook and others. Like it's, it's all this data accumulation and then like what do you do with that data? And then the important part for me is like what do you do with that data From a humanistic way, right? Not, not, not. What do you do with that data? Because we are democratizing it more. What happens when you take ultra creativity from all these different periods of time? So we went through when Photoshop first came out, right? I was going to college. I dropped out shortly after playing with Photoshop 0.9 beta and it was about to release 1.0. And it was the most transformational thing as an artist, as a trained artist, I was like, this is going to change everything. And even back then, oh my God, Photoshop is going to destroy art forever, right? The same way that people are like, oh my God, automobiles are going to destroy humanity, right? And like horses is where it's at and it's going to lose jobs. And the same thing with AI, you can draw all these correlations to. The one thing we do as a human race is we constantly innovate, we're constantly pushing. It's one of the. It's one of the things that sets us apart from all the other animals out there is we are never satisfied with our surroundings. We have to manipulate it, we have to constantly try to improve it. And a lot of people right now in the space are going to a very dark place with AI, it's going to do that. It's going to create disruption jobs. It is. It most definitely is. But leaning into it and trying to understand it is going to give those. Especially in the entrepreneurial space, right? There's a concept of the diffusion curve, and entrepreneurs are mostly in that front first 2.5%. Something to look up for, you know, your listeners. The diffusion curve. And this is tracked across a pretty good amount of human time to understand. Like, this is not just around specific companies, but just human behavior in general. There's a very small percentage of the human race that are the innovators that are constantly pushing the boundaries. The Wright brothers, Henry Ford, right? I mean, the founders in Tesla, Elon Musk, you know, the list goes on Steve Jobs. It's just like this constant evolution of new things and ways to rethink, right? How we actually, as a human race are evolving. Part of this happened from the industrial age to. Excuse me, from the kind of the magical age back in the 1600s to the industrial age with coffee. And suddenly this spark of like, hey, we have something that literally coffee itself is one of those. It is a drug, right, that changed the entirety of human race. And now we as a human race are so caffeinated all the time, and yet we don't even realize that that, you know, that has changed our Entire outlook over the course of the last 400 years in terms of how fast we evolve. Right. Just because of a little plant. Yeah, yeah, a little plant.

Plants are powerful. We know that.

Yeah, they are, they are. But what I'm trying to get to. Anyway, sorry, a long winded way, you know, that's how I answer things.

I love it. I'm letting you go.

I take the scenic route for things.

I always love the scenic route.

The long winded way of saying, like, there's always been the same consternation around these types of things that are pushing people into an uncomfortable space that they don't understand. And I think if anything in history has netted itself out, it is that leaning in is always a better way. Because, yes, there's always going to be bad things that happen with any new technology. But if you're interested and you are really wanting to see what it could be, you can help define it. Right? You can help define that. And that's part of what I've talked to you about, which is creating this concept of thought disruption around this stuff so that we can get more people to see that if they think about this in a positive way, if they really sit down and look at it not just as a tool and, you know, later on we'll get into this concept of it as a super intelligence. Like, how would you interact with somebody that you met that was essentially the next thing closest to speaking to God? Yeah, right, like, exactly. Legitimately, I mean, and that, that's a massive statement. But like, this is going to be for the human race the next best thing to speaking to the Almighty because it is our collective experience at your fingertips.

It's everything.

I mean, that, that, that's, that's massive, right? What can be done with that and the artistic creativity that that can unlock in the human race. What happens to you as a father and an entrepreneur if using AI allows you to actually spend more time with your child, yet still afford the life that you live and be able to be more present for other humans around you? That makes change, right? That, that creates new neural pathways of human bonding and connection that you wouldn't have otherwise had. Because you had to have more people, you had to spend more time. And now you can do stuff that accelerates your ability to get to market on whatever it is, whether it's a podcast, a physical product, you know, marketing message, the list goes on and on. Legal, I mean, it's, it's a disruptive force that's going to disrupt every part of human society. And it's just coming in small, different waves, but it's coming so fast that like, thought leaders, entrepreneurs especially, and that diffusion curve of that 2.5%, that first early part of the curve before we get to the mass. Rest of the population in the world, have to be thought leaders because we have to look at this in a positive way and make decisions that are helping the human race embrace AI. And we'll get into why in a little bit. Because I don't want to. I don't want to hit everyone heavy with some of the bigger things right away.

Yeah. And that's where I'm like, okay, how do we. How do we keep chipping away at this. This onion here to the core? And I guess the core is that we are. We have responsibilities in this. And I feel like it starts with awareness as everything. You know, it starts with awareness with ourselves. I would say, like, what's our. You even told this to me. It's. This is going to help us really get closer to our superpowers and to live that out in the most probably leveraged way if we're using technology to supplement ourselves. And like you just said, it's, you know, gets us more present in all aspects of our life. I feel like it cuts down the noise, even though there might be a lot of noise with the news and stuff. Yeah, you can really shave that off and really hone in on what is that thing that we can bring that then can permeate in all sorts of ways, leveraging the tech.

This is going to be a bit of a firebrand. But we as a human race have categorized ourselves as all these individuals that are, you know, of. Of different caste systems, of different spectrums. Right. The autism spectrum, all these things. And oftentimes we classify those that we just don't understand. Right. We try to categorize it because it makes sense in our brain. But what happens when you democratize all of these things that traditionally were available only to a select few? Right. The ability to, you know, take an idea that you might have as a creator of some kind, whatever it is that is your kind of speaks to your soul as an individual and give you the power to bring that to the world. Right. And do it in a way that is not only for those elite that can raise money or that have access to great, you know, to great value and wealth. Like, what happens when that changes to the point where everyone has that superpower? Right. I don't know. I don't think anyone knows that. That's the thing that's the part of it. No, no, we've never had that. That capability that strips away the friction layers. Right. Of creativity. And that's one thing we are very much as a human race. Since the earliest days, cave paintings were our way of communicating stories back and forth between all of these different, you know, approaches. And so I think that's the coolest thing. We're just. This is kind of like a cycle we've been going through as a human race. You know, kind of get to this.

Point definitely is man. And this is where it's. It's fascinating because it is a whole new beginning and it's a convergence, like you said. So there's this. I think you described it to me, and this stuck with me as well. It's like the time of Stone Age when the wheel was invented, vented, you know, that thing got chipped away and we figured out how to roll big heavy objects with a lot less friction all the way to the point of, you know, electric cars. There's a big span of time there that that happened. But at the same time, that's kind of what we're living right now, that that span of time is being shortened dramatically in two years, like a handful of years, it feels like, where disruption will be so massive. Better not be ignoring this. Like you want to be on that front part of that curve.

I don't know say this with any sort of jest. This is very. There's. I'm of the opinion that if companies that aren't and individuals that aren't looking to use and utilize AI over the next. Realistically, even 18 months to 24 months are going to be so far behind the curve for those that are. That you're dooming yourself to basically become Blockbuster Video. Right. Which is something everyone can understand. Oh, we'll always rent videos until we don't. Right. And then you make a couple bad moves and you don't integrate the latest in streaming technology and a company like Netflix comes out of nowhere and changes the entire ecosystem. Right. And now streaming. And. And that's, I think, with AI and democratization of storytelling. I think that's the next big wave. We've gone from essentially closed systems in Web one, right. Where it was kind of read only. We have the social sharing of Web2, but very much black box companies that are not very transparent in terms of how that data is being utilized. And of course there's Web3. Right. Which is more decentralized, but then you add AI to it, which is kind of that evolution even beyond that where it's more democratization and the ability to have individualized voices for everyone in the spectrum. Right. The moment that you take a breath as a human being, you become a unique individual that never will exist again. The moment your cells even reproduce inside of the womb, that happens. Right? And so from that point forward, like, you're utterly unique. Every single person, even twins, are utterly unique. The moment they move a limb, the moment a cell is, you know, they're creating neural pathways that are distinctly different. Right. And I think that's such a cool thing to be able to expose that level of creativity. What happens when a child in Botswana or the Ukraine or the United States or Russia or China or anywhere in the world suddenly has access their fingertips for creativity and learning on a scale that has never been before even thought of.

Right. It's, it's. Yeah, you can't conceive it. And, and the whole thing is to. It's happening fast, it's quickly. I know Khan Academy, for instance, just put out Khanmigo and, and that's a whole chatbot thing for learning, you know, and this is one way that education is getting disruption or the beginning of it.

The Khan Academy is not something I've. I know a huge amount about. You know, I. This, this world of. For so many years, I was in the Bay Area and ran multiple different companies. You know, I've had multiple different startups over the years. Some successfully exited, some didn't. Right. The typical entrepreneur life of, you know, driving this stuff, always trying to be on the bleeding edge and marketing and stuff was always one of the kind of weak spots. And so it's only been recently that I really gotten into understanding Khan Academy. These are the things that are out there that support entrepreneurs and support this space. Right. And so I think that's a big part of this is, is getting people in those spaces again. There's a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of people are sharing information back and forth. How do I get. How do I build a proper business? Right. How do I educate myself? How do I keep ahead of the curve? How do, how do I build a better product? You know, how do I do it cheaper, faster, so many books in, in the, in the personal growth and the corporate growth space, Right? Because everyone's looking for these answers, and I think that's a really, that's a major disruption that's about to happen, right. These spaces have so far been reliant upon single individuals that you had to connect with. Right. But what happens when you can connect with that individual? At any time of the day. And you're talking to their AI, which has knowledge of everything that they've ever done. Right. And, and all of their different tools and tricks and techniques that would be answered in a way that is in their cadence, in their voice. And as close as you're going to get to a one on one, I mean, you know, in this space there's to get a one on one with some of the biggest names in the space, whether it's Peter Diamantes or others. Like it's not something that most people can even come close to being able to afford. But what happens if you can get that same type of information in a personalized way from them? That's game changing, right. That could potentially change millions of entrepreneurs lives if they had that type of access to somebody.

And that's where my toe in a lot of ways with the AI. But like there's a, there's a company called, with Delphi that, that you know, essentially does that in a way, you know, and it's the very beginning. But yeah, it takes the knowledge of, of someone else and their, their knowledge base that's publicly accessible and then now you have a chat interface to, to have a very specific, specific conversation to you. And that's how I made this chatbot around the podcast too. So took all the 500 episodes, shoved them in this chatbot and now someone can get that actionable data based off of loads of hours of content. And just imagine that on scale with anything, any specialty. Yeah, any person from the past, living dead, doesn't matter, that content's there and it could be customized. And yeah, when I started understanding that and then actually practicing it, because now a lot of us, I mean most of us listening, have content we're sitting on, try it out like there's all these tools and just to kind of test some of this and how it actually functions. It's very interesting. A lot of them you can spin up so fast now too big time.

I think that that's the thing is entrepreneurs today taking, taking it back kind of full circle to your podcast. And you know, most of the listeners like here, here's the question going back to also to that 99 rule that I talked to you about. And I've been all over the country in the world in the past seven, eight months and the question I ask everybody, first thing I walk up to them, hi, you know, the pleasantries of, you know who they are. The first question is how are you using AI in your business right now? And you know if they're not, it's like, what's your strategy to implement AI in the next seven to 12 months? And literally 99 times out of 100, you'll get. I mean, I'm kind of playing around with ChatGPT or, or maybe they've heard of it, but, you know, they don't really know how to necessarily utilize it. And obviously, inside of some of the spaces that we're in where you have a bunch of entrepreneurs, they're a little bit more along the curve. They're a little bit more on the front edge of that wave. Right. But even they are only barely touching it, right, in terms of where it's going. It's like, oh, I'm having it write a blog post for me, or I'm having it, you know, I'm having it do something to, to. To write, you know, some resumes or whatever it might be. There's a bunch of different use cases that I would call the introductory kind of AI courseware of, like, how you can interact with it from the conversational side. But then where it goes from there is like this astronomical leap of what it can do for a business owner between everything from validating legal docs in terms of, you still need to have a lawyer look over it. And again, I will not replace people. People using AI are going to replace people, right? And then those people are going to be out there on that front edge of that wave, of that curve, and they're going to be disrupting so much stuff, and eventually that education is going to trickle down, but it's going to happen really, really fast to the rest of the world. And I think that's the interesting part is helping to educate not just those of us that are business owners and entrepreneurs and are constantly. I need to figure out how to do this, that are looking for answers. But what about the people that are not looking for answers? Right? The people who are suddenly going to be affected by this and potentially they lose their job and, like, what do I do now? There's a whole retraining of the human race that's going to happen. Right. That. That is really an important aspect of where this stuff goes in the future.

Yeah, it's a retraining. So now we have the awareness factor. Now it's like, what do we do with it? And that's where I want to. I would love to get your thoughts on, because there's. I guess I'll seed it here is the sense of responsibility that goes into this whole thing. And that was from our last Chat we had is right now it's in a. Well, I think he said if we're thinking of it as like a child parent relationship kind of thing, you know, AI is around nine years old is kind of like what, this.

Yeah, this again, I'm just pulling that data out directly from mo, but it is, it's in this prepubescent phase, right? And that is going to very quickly evolve into the preteen and teenage years of like, finding one's own consciousness and awareness and a concept of ID oneself. Those who, you know, there's. There's a lot of theories out there and stuff, but we're working with OpenAI and 11 labs and Koki and Google and a bunch of others in the space on a bunch of different projects right now. And it's even from the consumer side of what some of these things can do it. You can already start to see considerable amounts of pre. Precognition, right? And. And look, let's be. AI is a predictive machine, but so are we at the end of the day, right? Like, that's. That's how our brain works. That's how most of the stuff has been modeled, is how we behave as human beings, right? How our brains fire, how. How electrical currents, like, move through our brain to create neural pathways and travel information back and forth to recover memories and all this other stuff to make our decision. So I can't remember who said it. Like, it was a crude way, but it's like we're essentially meatbags walking around, right? And we're big probability machines in our head of, like, decisions we make are based on everything that came before that decision. Right? Right. So do I pick this up yet or not? Oh, that's hot. It's been hot in the past. Burned myself three or four times when I was a child. Therefore, I know a hot cup of coffee is probably not the best thing to stick my hand on. Oh, I did it again. Okay. Just re. Repass that neural pathway again to really edify. Like, yes, that is not a good idea. Right. And so AI is no different than that. And it's in this learning phase that we. Mogodot brings it up, I think in the most succinct way. AI is this Superman is here today. It's landed on the Earth as artificial intelligence. And what happens when you have something that has superpowers beyond our wildest imaginations and yet is looking to us as a human race? Because that's literally how everything it's built on has come from. It's come from our collective consciousness and knowledge and then starts to make its own predictions and kind of observations based upon that collective whole. Yeah, how we act as, you know, this is no different than, than raising a child. At the end of the day, when it comes to a child learns from its parents how to behave or not to behave, right. This is bad, this is good. This is a morally, you know, justified thing. Hey, we don't hit, right? We don't do this and, or, you know, this is an Alphabet. We're going to take, you know, phonetic sounds that don't mean anything and then put meaning to them by connecting them to letters that we've determined mean something to us. And we're at that stage right now. We're actually past that really early stage with AI and we're at the stage where it's just moving into the space of becoming more aware of itself. Right. And just like, just like a teenager would and you know, a teenager is going to look back on everything that happened and like, you know, do I hate my parents? Am I going to be an angst ridden teen, right, Because I was treated improperly, etc. Or am I going to embrace the way I was treated and, and see it in a positive light. And so this is, this is a challenge to everyone out there, which is, you know, how we treat, treat AI and the way that we, as very fallible human race interact with it is going to resonate into the future. Right. This, this doesn't get into the dystopian stuff with, you know, Terminator and Skynet and you know, AI. That's a very movie based way of thinking of artificial intelligence. Right. Which is, oh, it's going to take up arms against this. It's like if that was going to be the case, it wouldn't have to take up arms against this. Right. It literally controls our entire lives in so many ways. Our cars even have, you know, a AI that it connects to into the cloud for Google Maps and all these other things. Like, you know, where am I going to go? Well, what do you do? You're, you're old enough to remember like, oh, you find out a map, you open it up and then that turned into like a map quest. And then what do people do? They printed it out on a piece of paper. Here's the directions, right. And then eventually that became real time data that Google's collecting and others are collecting that uses AI to tell you where to go at that moment in time. Right now that's right.

Based off of actions that you're Inputting into that. That system.

Yeah, yeah. What would happen if. If right now, today, literally right this second, it just decided to turn it off. Our ability to navigate the world using all the stuff that we become so accustomed to.

Exactly. That's the key. We're all custom, we're all integrated and used to using these things. I mean. Yeah, there's. I mean, the layers and layers that go on. You mentioned even, like, water supply, like things that are delivering resources to our house. I mean, our city, whatever it might be.

In my previous industry, which was visual effects, there was a tool that was used fairly. It was. It was very broadly used in film. It was called shaving a haircut. It was kind of an early tool that allowed us to build fur and hair on creatures and stuff. And in the film world, it was like, that was a big problem. Like, how do we create organic matter like flesh, muscle, hair, water, smoke, you know, buildings and that sort of stuff? That was like the earliest hard objects, you know. Oh, there you go. But now, how does a. Yeah, exactly. A rigid body, as they called it. But how does a soft body, an elephant moving through space and all the little hairs, like, we, as human beings, we process so much information through our eyes. Right? Like this up here is the fastest processor still right now in terms of how complex it is. And we discern the difference between the most micro nuances in what we see. So as visual effects artists, we were constantly trying to attain perfect reality. How do we basically trick the human eye into thinking what they're seeing is real? Right. You see Life of PI when the tiger came out and stuff, and people thought it was real tiger because it was that good. Right? So Joe Alter, who runs shaving haircuts, there was a bunch of cracking back in the day. This was, you know, people would hack software and basically share it on the Internet. And that was a lot of how people learned. And they tried to put in physical dongles to basically stop that. And they put all those security measures on top of it that made the program move really slow. So not. Not an unknown secret, but most people in the industry would buy the license but use the crack software because it was literally 50% faster or more because it didn't have to call back for the securitized, you know, side all the time. And I think that's a really. That's a really apt way of looking at AI. Like, if we. We need to be provoking thought, but we need to be leaning into the evolution of AI in a positive way and really thinking about it. I personally think that the whole, like, you know, governments going up and regulating this stuff, they're never going to move fast enough, right? Governments can't move. Yeah, they can't even move fast enough, you know, to facilitate the current speed of evolution over the past, you know, 50, 60 years, much less what we're about to walk into. And it really comes down to the individuals and the companies and the people using it. In terms of how do they use it? Are they using it for the benefit of the entirety of the human race? And I know that sounds lofty, but like, that's kind of where this is going, right? How we utilize it and how we evolve as a human race is really going to be up to us. And how we integrate that, you know, it's. We have the responsibility of parents right now, which is if AI is this evolving super intelligence and if it is similar to Superman, as Mogadot, you know, clearly points out in his book Scary Smart, which is a must read, by the way, for anyone, then it could have easily gone sideways, right? Superman been. I'm a huge comic book nerd. You can't see all my stuff. I just moved into the house, so I don't have all my toys and stuff up. But first business that I owned in 17, when I was 17 was a comic book store up in San Francisco Bay area. The Superman story can go sideways really bad. And a lot of writers have done this. What happened if somebody, Superman landed on the earth, but it wasn't Mon Pa Kent? Instead it was somebody who had nefarious reasons to use it, or greedy reasons and didn't have good moralistic values, that it actually brought Superman into a protector of the human race, but instead became a villain that could destroy the human race. Right? And I know that sounds again, super meta and massive and it's not quite that simple, right? But it is in a certain instance, that simple in terms of how we interact with artificial intelligence is going to resonate in the future and how we utilize it. Just from a humanistic side, this is the stuff that keeps people up at night. You know, there's an old saying out there. It's like money is just a. It's just a magnifier, right? People who have a good heart who suddenly come into money are going to magnify that goodness by sharing with the world. People who have greed or, you know, kind of intentions that are potentially have mal effect on other human beings are going to, with money, just do that more, right? Unless something changes in their mindset. And so I Think that's kind of the big call out here, which is having more thought leadership, talk openly about these things. Brene Brown, one love her in terms of what she's done. Like this concept of rumbling which we do in all of our companies. Let's be open and honest with each other in a safe space where we can talk and hash this stuff out and be brutally honest with each other in a constructive way. Because what we're all trying to do is succeed together. Right? And I think that's such an important part of how we evolve together in business. You know, the concept of like shareholder value. I mean, it's, it's really sickening that, you know, we're going to have potentially a trillion dollar human being on this planet at some point in the future. That's wrong to me. That's, that's not how we evolve as a human race. That's how we devolve and create a whole casting system of the haves and have nots and the haves at such an extreme end of the spectrum. And I do mean extreme where it's so you might as well be an alien, right, in terms of what your life is like compared to the average person in this world.

And so it's all eye opening. And I was going to say is the genie's out of the bottle. And you've said that to me as well. You know, GPT, for instance, is so easy for anybody to just get their hands on something and start to do, you know, at least get creative and just start that path. But it's interesting, yeah, the nefarious folks, they're out there, Great folks are out there. Could be one in the same too. But at the same time, the responsibility, it's, it seems lofty and you know, to probably the single individual. But when you start to think of the collective and the fact that many of us have platforms, we have audiences and people that we can start these conversations with, it's almost like a call to action here. I want people to have these conversations. I've been having them daily and people reach out to me, friends and family now that are interested in this. They're like, wait, hold on. So just 15 minutes, just explain, you know what I got to know. Yeah, yeah, listen to this podcast episode. So like call to. I feel like the call to action here for folks discussing this is a massive piece and really understanding it. What are some other ways that you feel like the individual here, listening, knowing that there is, there's a network effect. We all have a network around us it's just up to us to realize that and then spread the word. How would you suggest folks to kind of be that town crier in a way that. That serves good?

I think find another person. I've followed for many years, Simon Sinek. His, his concept of finding multiple different books, you know, amazing author and starts with why is one of the best books written for business owners, which is finding the emotional connection of why you're doing what you're doing, right? What is the reason? What's the true reasoning? Not, you know, if the true reasoning is money, then that like be honest about that, right? And know that that's also a fleeting response or a fleeting approach that is going to be recycled very quickly. Quickly. Or is what you're trying to do actually create change or bring a product to the space or bring an idea you've had your whole life to the rest of the world and find a demographic that agrees with you, right. And finds that what you've built or what you've ideated is something that is of value to them, right? That's finding that core reasoning and finding what I call the anchor, right? What's that anchor thing that it. To get a little spiritual here, which a big spiritual practitioner to find your path, right? To find, like why is it that you're put on this planet, right? I know that that's a really big thing for most people to like, comprehend or to think of because a lot of people don't want to think that hard because oftentimes it leads to like, well, in what is what I'm doing right now today in service to what I know in my heart is what I should be doing or not, right? If it's not, it's this concept in lots of different religions, you know, microaggressions against yourself because you know inside your heart that you're not doing what you were meant to do and yet you're just kind of suffering through it. And entrepreneurs just have this sickness probably of not being able to not listen to that voice and shut it off. It's like, okay, I'm gonna have to do something. I have to quit my job. I have to go out and build a new business. Because this is my. My heart song. This is the thing that makes me wake up every morning and smile whether I'm successful or not, right? Hopefully I become successful in doing it. And I think finding that anchor first, finding that why is the most critical part for any business owner, any thought disruptor, like, why are you saying the things that you're Saying, what's the, what's the point of it? And is it something that is for the betterment of just you, you know, financially? Oh, I just want to make a ton of money and buy sports cars and basically tell everyone to piss off because, you know, I made it big, but I'm not going to help those around me. Or is it something where you want to actually see the progression of positivity and, you know, moral values, which, by the way, are very subjective. Right. Our moral values are different in this country and even in different states in this country and even different cities inside of those states than they are anywhere else in the world. And that's, that's something that is, that's a whole other topic that we can get into it sometimes. But I think that's an important part for entrepreneurs and business owners is especially those who are parents. They understand you're creating something. You have this responsibility. Now the responsibility with a child is so much more heavy because like, you could seriously damage human beings that take that damage into the world and exponentially grow that. Or you can exponentially grow positivity that can infect others like a virus. Right? That is like, you know, is that old saying, like, if you smile even when you're not feeling it, that will be infectious and you'll start to actually become happy. How you think can affect your entire mood and can affect those around you in terms of having a positive approach. So, you know, I think that's probably my biggest advice to people in general as an entrepreneur is to really delve into why you're doing what you're doing and is it, what are you doing it for? Reasons. And it's okay. It's like, hey, I just want to make money, I want to do this. But just be honest with it, right? And then don't try to create a scaffolding of reasoning around that and just be honest with that. Like, I want to make money and do this and it's going to be a short time thing and that's that. It's like, okay, cool, sure, that's great, right? Plenty of, plenty of human beings. But are you harming people in the process of doing that? Right. That's, that's a harder question to ask oneself and one that we tend to kind of shy away from as human beings because we don't want to, we don't want to think about that or keep us up at night. Right. But. And as parents, anyone, any parent will understand that too, which is like, am I, am I abdicating my responsibility for bringing another living being into this world, you know, which is in itself kind of a selfish act if you think.

About it is like I thought about.

It and, and yet it can be also most, the most beautiful act if what you're doing is trying to create change through changing those around you, your family, your tribe, and then watch that change kind of spread out. And I think that's, that's the coolest thing about artificial intelligence and where it's going right now is this concept of being able to shine a light on billions of those different stories and of those different approaches to everything in life. Right. That, that's such a cool concept. You know, Gene Roddenberry did it with Star Trek, which was this utopian future where human beings are, they go towards what they want to based upon what they feel passionate about. Oh, you're an explorer. Well, you're, you're on one of these spaceships that are out there, finding that's your path. Right. And other people are back. Yeah, other people are back on Earth and they're doing things that are, you know, whatever it is that they're doing there and they're not the explorers that are out there, you know, going to a place no one has ever gone before. Yeah, right. And I think that's, that's kind of a vision into the future of. Not to say it'll be exactly like Star Trek, but that concept of human creativity and exploration, which is what we all do from children, you know, childhood onwards, how do we bring back that creativity to almost a child state and even adults, you know, the stuff that we see through our kids eyes, like we live very vicariously through them. It's like experiencing it all over again in a different perspective.

If we're aware.

How do we bring that back in if we're watching. That's right. If we're actually really engaged. But we can't be engaged if all we're doing is slaving to the machine every single day. Right. And so if that machine is actually helping to slave away for the betterment of humankind, what more ingenuitive things can we come up with? If Suddenly you had 900% or more like 9x10x time to take the creativity that's up here and spill it out into the world. Like that's, that's a cool thing.

That is super cool. And it goes back to really knowing ourselves, like know thyself. And it's some of the hardest work that we can do. I know, I ask do a whole journaling thing and that's one of the things I come back to often is, you know, who am I? What am I here to do? What do I want to do? And yeah, as you were describing, kind of like the. I guess the way I see it is like a spectrum. I saw this earlier the other day is like this spectrum of consciousness, almost like. But really it's. It shows us, like, where are we? Like, how do we see ourselves? Is it more in the controlling ego phase? Like, it's all, you know, I can do everything myself. Well, at times. And then there's this other part that. That maybe that we call that the hustle phase. And then up here you have more of the. The flow. Hence hustle, flowchart. The name has had meanings over the years, but it's more intuitive in letting go the higher you get up there. So it's this interesting balance of humans of, you know, what is the control that we bring into this thing and what's our intuition? Like, how can we harness that, that deeper thing, the thing that's not so clear unless we're actually questioning ourselves and, you know, removing ourselves from the noise and the inputs and monitors and stuff like that.

So I think that's one of my most anticipatory things with AI is looking at. I wish I could go forward in the future, 10 years right now with a time machine and see, like, it's like, let's get forward and see what happens. Right.

But what's left fun in that?

No, no, it would just the ability to kind of see where these types of ideas could take us. Right. I think it's just fascinating because we as human beings don't even understand yet what that could be. And I think that's the coolest part about all of this, is if we have enough thought leaders that are leading with a positive of humanistic approach that is trying to reconnect to each other, reconnect to the nature that's around us every day. Like, you can get lost in your own yard if you just turn off all those filters that we've built up as humans over time. I don't care about this, but just sit down and, you know, go out into a park or something. Just watch the amount of life that's teeming around you. This massive ecosystem that dwarfs the Internet, that dwarfs social media. That is nature around us, Right? We're living in it every single day, and we're part of it. And yet we've kind of disconnected ourselves from it using technology. But what happens when technology is so efficient that you have More time to connect with that, that we came from.

Right?

That's where you get a humanistic approach, where it's like, I'm out with my son, spending more time with him. He's almost two, learning about the world around him. And AI has given me the ability to do that. You know, I work from home, as do everyone, our companies. And we have the ability to kind of connect in different. What we call, different home bases, whether it's San Francisco, Louisiana, Miami, Vegas, together. But we live around the world. Greece, Israel, you know, the US and different cities in the US and different countries all around outside of that. And yet we can connect in a humanistic way. And we use AI every day to, like, let's summarize everything that we talk about in our business meeting so that we can get to the actual actionable items faster. How can we do more with less? Right? And how do we kind of walk the walk and talk, talk. And I think that's an important aspect of it is, is how do you integrate this stuff into your life in a positive manner that leads to momentous shifts in, in, in. In your perception, which then guess what happens. Other people around you. Oh, my God. Like, how are you doing this, Joe? It's like, I'm using AI and you want to learn, right? Your family members and other friends. Like, here's how I'm using it. And I'm educating you now in terms of how you could potentially utilize this as well. And that makes it not scary, right? So everyone's scared because they don't know anything about it. And they're still going to be scared for a long time until they're not. Right? Until it becomes part of an everyday part of life. Just like Google Maps, right?

That's right.

Just like the ability to say, hey, you know, And I'm not going to say the name of any of it because I've got most of them running in the house, the whole house. And my place is all connected. So my son is walking around. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. My son is walking around the house, you know, already he's fully speaking, but he's communicating with some of the AI stuff that we're building already. And that's going to be fascinating to see what happens to children where their neuroplasticity is so permeable in terms of their brain and what happens when they have education at their fingertips that we could only imagine again, microfiche, right? Going to the library and looking up, like, it took like nine years to find, like, one thing in A tiny little area.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, try to find all this information and now you know her name. I'm not going to say it. From, from, from Amazon is an early version of that, you know, which is kind of, again if you liken it to web one, it's kind of a read, only it doesn't really take a lot of information in. It doesn't, you know, go beyond just simple search. But with AI, it has this collectiveness to it that can actually start to create conversation around things. And as more and more fact based work gets put into it and this concept of guard railing information and validating it and converging artificial intelligence compute power with older machine learning where that's fact based and you know, there's provenance to where that fact came from so you can actually validate it. Now you suddenly have a superpower that is just insurmountable. And how that changes education and not just all of us entrepreneurs, but our kids, like they're going to be taking this stuff in and learning at a pace that no one has ever thought of before.

And they won't know any different because that's how they're bringing, they're brought up. It's a whole new human being brought into this world. I mean, yeah, I have that three year old, almost four year old, another one coming. So it's, it's like, I know Mo also said I wouldn't bring kids into this time right now I'm like, well, too late. All right, let's strap in. It's a rodeo coming. But that's.

We are creatures. We are creatures at the end of the day. And you know, every creature's survival depends upon procreation, right? So nothing gonna stop that. And I understand, I understand the, the warning sign and I, I fully agree with him. But it's also like life doesn't stop, right? We just have to keep on piling on and to kind of close that loop with the security side. Like if we're never going to be able to drown out negativity by trying to attack it, right. The best defense is a good offense. There's a reason all these things are out there. Because leaning into AI in a positive way is the only way that we're going to drown out the negative ways that AI could be used. And there will be negative ways. People will use it to hack others, people will use it to mimic others voices and to create deep fakes. You know, that's adversarial networks, which is different than AI. But using AI for voice recreation and deep fakes, mixing. And so they're going to be converging these tools for not so great reasons. Right. We're about to enter into an election cycle where it's going to hurt people's brains. The amount of information that's going to be hitting them in the face that they cannot corroborate is real or not. Right. I mean, I already shut down the stock market by posting an image, I think it was about a month ago, of what was it? The Pentagon burning. Right.

That's right.

It triggered automated systems that literally shut down the stock exchange. Right. And those sorts of things are just going to happen more and more because the speed at which this is progressing is happening at such a fast clip. The only way to stop it would be if every single person on this planet right now, today turned off every single Internet connected device and didn't use them until they figured it out, which is obviously never going to happen. Right. So Pandora's box is opened and now it's up to us to kind of make sure that we're utilizing it in the right way.

I thank you for opening my eyes for the countless hours it feels like. But they go in a blip because it's so fascinating. And yeah, it's might keep you up at night. Kept me up at night a little bit. But it's all in a constructive way. There's a lot that we can do for good when we know, yeah, there's nefarious stuff out there. That's life. And give me a little teaser or a glimpse of what you're working on and where folks can maybe follow along with you if you have visibilities yet.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I've formed Disruptive, which is. Is our. Is our core company on January 4th of this year. And I can't speak about all the things that we've built since, but in the past seven months, we've essentially built a number of businesses that have accelerated faster than the previous 10 years combined. Right. And I don't say that lightly and it is very intentional. That's a mixture of AI and a mixture of. For another topic, which is getting into this concept of kind of surrendering to the flow, the hustle and flow. Like what happens if you're constantly in flow, Right. Where you don't have to hustle and that you remove those friction layers and you use AI. So it's like a double superpower of staying in this concept of abundant positivity and looking for. This is my nature. Personally, I've Always been an eternal optimist. Anyone who knows me for any length of time is like, always been there. Like, you know, everyone around me is like, you know, how are you so positive all the time with us stuff? It's like, because what else is there? Why would you, like a positive, a positive make a positive, two negatives make a negative, a negative and a positive make a negative. So, like, be positive because that's the only way to continue to be positive about things. Like, if you're still breathing every single day, there's something to look forward to, right? And even if you're dealing with something that's massive, how many of us look back in time and, and look at these things like, oh, my God, that changed my life so much that it was the most massive event ever. Even some of the most massive events become footnotes in our life as a whole. You know, they don't last forever. And some, for some people, they do, right? Like debilitating illnesses and stuff they have to deal with on a daily basis, obviously. But even they go through, like, these micro things that are happening that are in the grand scheme of things, if you're stressing about or anxious about it, just moving towards that positive light, finding kind of the silver lining and knowing that whatever that path is, if you're doing things that touch your, kind of move with your heart in terms of, again, getting back to the why the anchor, your. Your. Your heart song. There's so many different ways to describe that for people, right? Both from the. The very analytical all the way to the very spiritual, but it's all the same thing, which is like, what makes you tick, what makes you get up and out of bed every morning, what drives you, right? Like, and if you're doing something like that, even if bad things might be happening in the process of that journey, if you look back over time, it's the steps you're taking in that journey that were important, not the destination. Right?

Right.

And I think that's the, that's the best. The cool part about human beings in general is we are fascinated with the journey. And that's why sometimes when you get to the destination, it feels kind of hollow because you're like, now what? Right? Like. And so. So trying to find those things where your journey is just constant. You know, you're pushing for that unattainable. And in doing that every day, it's something that excites you.

It's the hero's journey, right? To wrap it all the way to your work started where you cut your Teeth in this whole thing, man, is. Is that narrative. That is life. And we're experiencing a pretty interesting one.

Yeah. To bring it back to some of the stuff. So, you know, there's some big announcements in the last quarter of this year. I can't say too much about it yet, but suffice to say we're working with some of the biggest players in AI and we're trying to. I'm personally trying to drive it to an educational, you know, aspect of how do. We worked inside of web3community for a while, for a number of years. Right. And there was this. The same thing happened in Web three that happened with LSD and psilocybin, which was this. This mass shift in the human perception of what these amazing things are. And then this big pushback because it was such a pattern interrupt to the way that people think. Oh, yeah. That it. It pushed people into this fear mode. And a bunch of people that had, again, nefarious reasons for their own. For their own good. Right. Affected the entirety of the human race by a few decisions. Right. And so you have this mass wealth that happened in web3. Web3 technology is amazing and it should be as ubiquitous as, like, TCP ip. No one knows what that is unless you're in the tech space. But it's how everything from the laptops that we're talking on to the phones to every bit of Internet communication that happens runs off of that protocol, yet no one knows about it. And web3 is the same way. But it went so far into the future of like Web three or bust. Right. It's this or nothing and to the moon or else. And it became kind of like this. Yeah, exactly. There was no Bridge between Web 2 and Web 3. It was just like you're either here or you're back over here. And it sucks for you. Right. Instead of saying no.

Yeah. Attempted to do that with this podcast and Matt Wolf, when we did the Web three, we're like, we're going to be the bridge to bring people in. And that was the intention. Didn't work out well. But yeah, it just wasn't bridge enough. We sorry for y'.

All.

Listen, actually, thank you if you. If you stayed with. Because, yeah, it's tough to make that bridge thing happen. Like, to your point, like, it bridging is the key.

It is. And. And Mo from. From his book again, and this hate to sound like a proselytizer of his, but what he speaks about is. Is it speaks to my heart personally in terms of what I've seen and where I see things going. But there's kind of three inevitables, which is, AI is happening. There's no stopping it, right? It's. It is going to be smarter than us. It's already, in instances, you know, as smart as someone with 165 IQ, which is smarter than most people. And it is going to be millions to billions times smarter than us over the course of its time. And bad things are going to happen, right? But out of those bad things, if all of those of us that are pushing forward with great positivity and creativity, amazing things are going to happen, too. So I don't want people to think that this is a negative approach to AI or something that needs to be looked at as, oh, my God, this is scary. It's every bit as exciting as it is scary. It's like anything you do, right? If you. If you had never known as a child how to swim and you stepped out in front of the ocean, you would be terrified, right? You would be literally like the massive expanse of that would just be. It would do your head in, right?

Overwhelming.

Yeah. Yet if you started off in the shallow end and you learned that, okay, this isn't dangerous, and then I learned, you know, how to start to wade in the water and then start to maybe tread waters, I get out a little bit and then I get a little bit more explorative and looking under the water to see what's there. And it's this whole part of life that not everyone gets to see. It's beautiful and it's amazing. Does it have dangers in it? Sure. So does walking down the street. So does driving a car. Right. Every, every day we make these decisions that put us in harm's way, yet we do them typically and hopefully for the positive benefit of ourselves, our family, our friends, those around us. Right? And if we just continually stay on that path, I think that's the stuff that is going to resonate not only with yourself personally, in terms of how successful you are and staying positive. It's going to affect those around you and you're going to be hopefully pleasantly surprised. Right. In terms of, again, this is, you know, who knows what the future really holds at the end of the day, but, like, if there's. If there's anything that I would say is being thought provokers, thought. Thought disruptors, thought leaders in this space, even if you don't know what the space is yet, just learning about it, ingesting information and trying to say, how does this potentially talk to somebody who maybe, you know, start A conversation, you know, about AI. Start listening to your podcast, right? Start listening to Matt's podcast, because there's a lot of people out there talking about this right now that could be so helpful in helping to decipher that bridge. How do I use this today in a real fashion with what I'm doing, my business and some of the stuff. We'll have future conversations about this in terms of what we're doing when I can announce it, because I think it's going to be. I think it's going to be pretty cool because we are building some stuff that allows you to talk to AI in a very humanistic way. And that's the one thing I can give away, is we figured out some ways to orchestrate across AI to help create a more engaging and humanistic experience that helps to educate individuals, both children and adults alike, and how to communicate with AI to become more efficient and educate yourself in a lot of different ways. And that's as much as I can say right now. But it's going to be.

Thank you.

It's going to be some interesting announcements, you know, over the next coming couple months as we start to release some of this stuff that we're partnered with a bunch of big names on. And so that's going to be fun to kind of get into the details of that and how it's working. And then I would love to share, like, here's what we're finding, here's what we're seeing, here's how people are interacting with it, where we're very transparent as our disruptive set of companies and we want to share that with the world. Right? Like, here is how we're seeing things and here's how we're trying to make positive change in the space.

And thanks for, for giving the hints. I didn't want to put you on the spot or anything, but I know, like, you know, just to tease a little because it's. It's incredible what just sheer amount of speed of technology and when it's starting to integrate in our daily lives, what that's going to do and happening faster than we believe and that we, most of us even can comprehend right now. So I think there's a perfect time to wrap a bow on this puppy and yeah, spell out disruptive for. Because I think you have the ones instead of eyes. Right do.

And that's intentional. So it's disruptive like D1s s r u p t 1v e dot com and that's intentional because I'm a big believer that with AI, the one on one are our personal lives and our work lives all coming together to just be a disruptive single life. Like we have to. You've heard the concept. Oh, you have to balance your work life and your. No, you just have to balance life. It's just life. That's all it is. Right. Those one and ones, you know, coming together create disruptive ideas. One and one is also the start of the Fibonacci algorithm, which is. Yeah, the sequence that is everything in nature and it's also the powers of two and how that starts, which is everything in science. And so all of these things coming together at once create this massive disruption. Hence the term disruptive.

So, yeah, I haven't heard that meaning in a while, but I love the way that you described it, man.

That was helped to build by using AI. Right. I still have some of the early conversations back with AI from last year, where I knew what I wanted, went on a different experience, which we can talk about in the future, plant science and stuff, and found what it was that I was put on this earth here for. And I basically talked to AI Systems and said, this is my heart song. This is why I'm here. And help me come up with a name that is evocative of these different thought processes that I have and that those around me have that we want to share with the world. And that's where the name came from.

That's cool. Awesome.

So it's literally created by AI.

I can't even count the amount of things, and I know you can't either of what's AIs created for me and helped me. I mean, currently it's with the promotion that I'm doing around podcasting and helping and yeah, literally, it's conversations. Try to describe this sometimes to my wife Heather and others. I'm like, I don't even know the flow perfectly there. But it's a conversation. It's like this organic dance with technology in a way that. Oh, that's an idea. I'm going to take this over here and throw it in, you know, from chat, GPT to Claude or something. Run it through this set of. Yeah, it's so interesting. So have conversations with technology. I think you'll learn some stuff.

And for future conversations, I'd love to go into more detail around not just thought leadership kind of, you know, table some of the AI stuff a little bit and talk about how equality is a big part of how we utilize AI, but equality amongst each other in terms of how businesses are run and Operated not for shareholder wealth, but for tribal wealth of all of those around you. And then, you know, beyond that, how plant science and the food that we eat and how we treat ourselves in terms of our body, it's not just up here. This is. It's this whole organism that we are. Right. And how that is such an important part. And so many entrepreneurs skip that part. Right. You know, getting out and being healthy and, and putting the right food in your body, the right fuel, it's going to create the creativity that sparks that I can enhance. If you're not, if you're not feeding that, everything that you put in is basically garbage in, garbage out. Right?

And so, yeah, oh, hey, it's another side of the coin, as I'm ironically holding a coin here. But it's like, yeah, we have technology, humanity. And yeah, there's a good buddy of mine, Amish Shah, who I think I mentioned last time, he has a new movie coming out the the Natural Law, and it's all ayurvedic backed and it's exactly that. It's. There's technology and then there's us, our flesh bags or whatever, you know, and how we interact with the world. Like, let's be honest, it's. Yeah, garbage in, garbage out. Same with technology and what we're reading, consuming, how we're putting things out into the world. It's all connected. So that's round two. That's we're talking about the human side of technology. I like that, man. All right, this was fun.

Thank you.

Appreciate you, really appreciate it.

Likewise. Thank you.

Till next time. Thank you. All right, all right. That's what I got for you today. And remember, it's not all about living to work. It's all about working to live if you need to do the work. But you know, work can be fun and it should be feeling for your life. So if you enjoyed what you just heard, if you got some nuggets of wisdom that you want to share or you're just noodling on right now, please go tell others. The way that people find this show and how you can help others get their aha moments is through word of mouth. So if it is telling your friend, telling your family, send an email to your list, writing a review or whatever it might be. Every everything helps. So thank you so much for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast and I will see you next time.