Jack Born - How To Ethically Use Time Scarcity In Your Offers

You should spend more on the people who recently visited your website or your order pages. So what you should be willing to spend to bring someone back to get your ad in front of someone who is at your website within the past seven days should be substantially more than someone who visited a year ago. So there's this half life of our attention for any sort of product or any sort of product purchase consideration. We go through different phases of life and sometimes we go through a buying cycle and then the buying cycle is over for that particular need. So you want to strike while the iron's hot.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Floatshark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, yo, welcome back. Hey. Hey. How goes it?

It's going great. This conversation is. It's a great one. And it's a tactical actionable. You're going to get a breakdown of how to make more money in your.

Business with this one.

We get to have fun too.

Yeah. Joe's pumping his fist in the air.

Like, Matt's all about the tactics.

Yeah, I am.

I know.

I love the tactics. In fact, we're shifting our show to be more tactical and actionable because of surveys that we've done recently.

We're making that very obvious on all the intros we're doing.

We are, yes, we are listening to you. No, today we're talking to Jack Bourne. And Jack Bourne is the founder of Deadline Funnel.

Yes, he is.

And it is an amazing tool that we're going to start experimenting with a bit ourselves. But what I really wanted to get across in this episode is I think a lot of people see like, countdown timer scarcity as like this sort of icky kind of thing. Right. Like it's, it's. People go, is that fake scarcity is like, you know, it's a digital product. There's no real scarcity on a digital product. Right. And so a lot of people feel weird about using the countdown timers. And that's like a real big topic that we talk about in this as well as some things like how to generate money through affiliate marketing using countdown timers. How to increase your sales in your business using countdown timers.

I want to take a step back really quick, though. It's like the urgency and scarcity, they're just like principles that are just in like all the persuasion books and like tried and true through human psychology. So like, even before, like the application, it's like, hey, lean into psych. Like proven human ways of being. Yeah. And that's what this Tool does, like, the core of it, but it does it with, like, actual authenticity and not the sleazy. Yeah. Reset at 24 hour. Kind of.

Yeah, yeah. And we're getting into all of that in the show. I mean, that's really like the essence of this conversation. But then we're also going to break down some tactics, like how long should you do the countdowns for? When is it okay to reopen after the countdown happened? You know, if I'm an affiliate marketer, how do I use countdowns in my business? So we cover a lot of, like, real actionable stuff that you can walk away and implement.

Like bam.

Now.

Yeah. So we got the notes taken care of for you. They are free, so everyone should get them. And you can get those@hustleandflowchart.com comp c o m P. Be quick. They're only available for two weeks for free. Hustleandflowchart.com and then we also have our.

Sponsor, of course we have our sponsor, Ahrefs. And one of the ways that I like to use Ahrefs is I actually like to use it for research for when I'm running Google Ads.

How do you do that?

I don't always know what keywords to go after. I do know a handful of keywords that are working right now in my Google Ads. I can take those keywords, go over to Ahrefs, plug them into Ahrefs, and Ahrefs is going to recommend other keywords that I can use. And before you say, why can't I just use Google keyword something else or something along those lines, why would you do that? Anyway, there is so much more data in Ahrefs. You're going to get so much more information about the, the, the, the sort of volume that that that keyword gets. You're going to get so much more information about the difficulty of those keywords, the value of those keywords. You can see other competitors that are.

Using your ability to rank for the thing, like all these loads of metrics.

Yeah.

You'll see what's right now on page one for those keywords and sort of find patterns and see how many backlinks all of those keywords have. And it really lets you deep dive into the research of the keywords you're going to use for your Google Ads. So I dig Ahrefs.

You're excited and I like it because it's true. It's amazing. If you're ever at all thinking you got to get more traffic from SEO hint, our favorite or Google Ads, Google Ads. That's right. Advertising. Go get Ahrefs. It is a $7 trial for seven days at a h r e f s dot com. That's a h r e f s dotcom.

Oh, you spelled it right this time.

I somehow I pulled it off. I don't know how. All right, so go get it and let's go talk to Mr. Bourne. All right, Jack, let's do this. How you doing? We're recording. Yeah.

Doing awesome. Great to be here.

Yeah. Well, top of the morning to you. Good morning. Actually, Australia. Yeah, it's horrible. I don't have it. I wasn't even trying to do an Australian accent or anything, but I don't know what I'm doing.

Mine's brutal. And I've lived here for over two years. I just don't even try.

Which part of Australia are you in?

Byron Bay. So as far as. As far east as you can get. It's a surfing town, so, yeah, lots. Actually, as soon as we're done here, I'm gonna get out and hopefully the wind is up and I'm gonna go kite surfing. So.

That'S what my afternoon looks like.

Do you ever go surf with James Tramka?

He's in Sydney. We haven't done that yet, but it's definitely something that we've talked about. Nice.

Yeah. No, he's awesome. So I know we got connected after we already were connected, but through Perry Marshall. So I always want to give a shout out to him.

Through our research. And I know he said it once at one of the events we were at, but the tactical triangle was your thing and you guys partnered or he's used that in a lot of his materials and it's brilliant.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So in his 8020 sales and marketing book, he goes over the process that he used to hire me as well as two other guys. And it was this sort of competition style scenario after I. So the. Originally the position was for affiliate manager. I'd say within six months, I was his marketing manager. And from that point on, I would say almost all of his promotions that went out had my fingerprints or input on it in some way. Sometimes a huge way, sometimes just like a look, see. But about within the first year, I had this epiphany that was the tactical triangle. And I explained it to him and I said, if this really gets you as excited as it does for me, you can use it, but just please always give me credit. And I didn't know if he would, but he. True to his word, even though. Because he was, was, was better known than I was at the time. Like, he, he, he might get like, like, you know, more, more credit than I do, but he always has gone out of his way to indicate in his book and when he's talking about it, that the idea came from me, but it really has become a cornerstone of the way that he teaches people how to grow their. Grow their business and grow their sales, whether it's, you know, a $99 ebook that you're buying or, you know, a $10,000 or $20,000 engagement with Perry.

Yeah. Yeah, I think you were actually at this event. We were at an event called the Rosetta Stone event out in Naperville, Illinois.

And yeah, like, most of the event was actually focused around the tactical triangle. Like, everybody kind of got a sort of 3D model of the tactical triangle. And he definitely gave you credit multiple times throughout the event for coming up with that idea.

Yeah, he's a super great guy, Brilliant guy. Just in true to his word. He's just, uh, what you see is what you get. Perry. Perry Marshall is an awesome dude. And it was really interesting to see, like, what his, you know, even though the idea came from me, like, he took it and evolved it to, you know, to something that, you know, has all these different size and is a 3D model. And it was, it was really interesting to see, like, oh, my baby's Grown up, turned 3D. Realistic.

Now he's taking good care of it.

That's awesome.

Well, take us, give us a little bit of your story and take us back to what brought you here and then we'll dig into some strategies.

Yeah. So I said goodbye to Corporate America in 2001 and set off on my own. And I actually started. I'm going to just hit a few of the high points, but one of the things that's probably going to be relevant to our conversation is that in my first venture, I set up a job board for the healthcare space. The nature of a job board is that you've got really two sets of clients. You've got the employers and the employees. And so it becomes this chicken and egg type of situation. So I decided I was going to build this thing and make it free for everyone. This is back in 2002. Ish. And so for about the better part of a year, I was doing this as a passion project on the side, staying up till the wee hours of the morning working odd jobs. And eventually my wife came to me. We didn't have any kids at the time. She's like Babe, I love that this is your passion project, but it's time to see if this thing has wings. And so she was right. And so I went through what I just determined, okay, here's how I'm going to roll it out. I didn't know at the time that I was doing basically a Jeff Walker launch, because this was a few years before we knew what launches were about. But I decided, okay, this is what the price is going to be. I'm going to send out a series of emails and I'm going to have a deadline. And what happened was I was really freaking out the first few days. I forget it was probably like a week of emails I was sending out because I got maybe two people to sign up. And I thought, oh my God, I'm going to have to go back to corporate America. This is going to be horrible. I've been wasting my time. But I thought, okay, I'm going to see this thing through. I'm going to keep finish this out and if no one buys, no one buys. But I'm not going to keep doing this for free. So the last day I sent out a few emails saying, look, today's the last day and you're going to lose your access and the price is going up. This is the charter membership. And that day, in the next 24 hours, $20,000 rolled in, which, you know, is a sizable amount of money for anyone. But at that time, that was huge for me.

That was a ton of money. And it wasn't just the $20,000. A lot of this came with recurring revenue month after month after month. I wasn't making 20 grand per month every single month. But, you know, it was more than enough for us. I didn't have to go back and, and get a job. This became my business for the next several years. And that it's not like I realized the power of urgency and a deadline at that moment and decided to build deadline funnels starting from that day. But as I look back on when did I first realize the power of deadlines and urgency to actually get people to make a decision, then that was one of my first real experiences where I saw for myself.

You can have an amazing offer, but you're not going to get nearly as many sales coming through as you would if you said, here's my amazing offer and here's the deadline.

Urgency, scarcity built in and all that, right?

Yeah. Fast forward. Several years I worked for Perry Marshall. I also built several software as a service tools, one of them being one of my first ones. Was AW Pro Tools which gave AWeber some more CRM Infusionsoft esque type capabilities and later sold that off. And when I sold it off or shortly before I sold it off, I thought I'd really love to build another software project that was not specifically just to one platform that could work with all these platforms.

And I realized also at the time that no one had really solved the issue like Perry's, a huge proponent, had been for many, many years, over a decade of the power of lead generation and.

Developing that relationship as a way of growing sales not just for the first sale but on an ongoing basis. This is back in the days when you could get 5 and 10 cent clicks and a lot of people time thought.

Why would I want to delay sending them to the sales page? Because I can just buy clicks off of Google for 5 cents, send them straight to the sales page and call it a day. I'm making tons of money. Perry showed that when you bring them into the right email sequence and you do it correctly.

Over that period of time, you'll generate far more sales. So I was a big believer in this, the power of lead generation, even before it became almost like the default way that people do business. But one of the challenges at the time was that as a student of psychology and being in the persuasion business, I knew that one of the most powerful effective triggers is deadlines and urgency and scarcity. So at the time I just figured, well, someone must have figured out how to integrate an email system with a series of emails with a deadline. And so I went looking for it and couldn't find it. So basically at the time the decision was okay, if you're going to use some sort of urgency like deadlines or a countdown clock, you're either going to have to do it live and it'll be real. You'll stay up till three in the morning and take your pages down. Or if you're going to do it in an automated evergreen system, you're going to have to be okay with basically lying to your subscribers because the technology at the time just wasn't set up to actually impose an actual deadline. So if you're going to try to automate it, you also had to be okay with basically lying to your subscribers. And so I wasn't okay with that. And so I thought, well, I think I can come up with a way where you can actually have the best of both worlds. You can automate it and you can your automated systems enforce that deadline for each person as they're going through that set me out on the journey to create Deadline Funnel. And it's one of those situations you've probably heard other people talk about their projects where luckily I didn't know how complex and complicated it was going to be to actually get to where we are now, because if I had known, it might have been too daunting.

But typical software kind of story.

Yeah, exactly.

Double time or triple time expenses, all that.

Well, yeah. And just the complexity, because at this time, people had cell phones, but it wasn't like the use of mobile devices was nowhere near what it is today. So these days, when you're sending out, say, five emails in a sequence, half of those, like every single subscriber that you have is. Almost every single one of them is. Is consuming those emails on multiple different devices. You know, today I might be reading your email on my desktop, then tomorrow I might be reading it on my iPhone while I'm in line at Starbucks. And so you need to be able. Your technology needs to be able to account for that situation and be able to track people from device to device. And, you know, that wasn't even one of the challenges when I first started creating Deadline Fun Funnel, but it's one that we definitely had to solve. And we have solved it, but it's really. And we've had it solved for many, many years. But just that one technological challenge.

Is a tremendous undertaking. Everything that happens behind the scenes, to be able to make that work and to synchronize it with the email systems is super, super complex. And our job is to make it easy for you, the end user, to just show up and just enjoy the benefits of that work.

Yeah, we've definitely used, I mean, like, a lot of folks, I think, have experience with timers and even hacking maybe an image in their emails and hoping that it syncs up with all the emails. I mean, there's a lot of hacks in ways that I know we've experimented and others have. Or like you said, we see timers reset after a period of time and then kind of go back to where they were. And you're like, hold on, been doing that for about a few months now. Is that right?

What's up with that?

Yeah, I think nothing sort of ruins a marketer's credibility like showing up, seeing that there's only, you know, two hours left on the countdown, and then coming back tomorrow and seeing that there's only two hours left on the countdown. It's like, okay, I just. I just learned that this marketer is willing to cheat me to get the Sale, you know.

Right, exactly. And, you know, I'm glad you brought up that point for a few reasons. One is that, you know, you know, the days, it's very unlikely, let's say it's very unlikely that you're going to be able to have one front end product where that is your entire business. I mean, if you look at some of the most successful direct response companies in the world, they're even losing money on that first client transaction. And they know their numbers. And so, you know, it's really, most of our businesses really built on this idea that once you've bought from me, you're more likely to buy the next product and the next. You certainly don't want to ruin that relationship by trying to, you know, go cheap with your technology stack and essentially lying to your subscribers. The other reason why this is really important, and this is sort of a public service announcement, is that this is what I call the peeing in the pool effect. You know, there's, you know, when you're in a swimming pool, there's no such thing as the peeing section of the pool.

What someone does in one section of the pool, you know, affects everyone. And so.

Be a good marketer, be a good steward.

Of your clients, because it doesn't just affect your business, it affects everyone's business. And that's really why I created Deadline Funnel, was so that we could all choose the route of being honest, but we didn't have to trade honesty for the most effective triggers that there are. I'm a student of Cialdini. That's one of the, you know, I was introduced to his work in college actually in a social psychology class, and it just blew my mind. But he talks about how one of the most effective psychological triggers is urgency and scarcity. You know, you want to use it in a way that's ethical and honest. So you can do that in a way that is ethical and honest, but at the same time gives, gives you the ability to automate your client acquisition and grow your business, scale your business.

Yeah, that's powerful, Matt. I think we achieved it actually. Just you don't. But like, Cialdini has been mentioned every three podcasts that we've recorded today. So. Matt.

Business book, bingo.

Yeah, there's one other book that's been mentioned twice today, but I'm not going to tell you what it is and I'm going to see if it comes up naturally in the conversation.

So as far as like the scarcity goes.

Why do you believe that the scarcity is so important? Because I think there's a lot of marketers out there that think, like, okay, if my product is good and people can obviously see the benefits of it, why do I need scarcity? So can you speak into that a little bit?

Yeah. So I think a close analogy to this, if anyone's done retargeting or remarketing who's listening to this, then you, you should know that you should spend more on the people who recently visited your website or your order pages. So what you should be willing to spend to bring someone back to get your ad in front of someone who is at your website within the past seven days should be substantially more than someone who visited a year ago. So there's this half life of our attention for any sort of product or any sort of product purchase consideration. Um, you know, we go through different phases, phases of life, you know, and sometimes we go through a buying cycle, and then the buying cycle's over for that particular need. So you want to strike while the iron's hot. So one thing that I want to mention is that deadlines are not magical in the sense that if you don't have an offer that really fills a need or a want in the marketplace, slapping a deadline on it isn't going to automatically resurrect it from the deadline. Right? It's got to be. There's a saying, you can't steer a parked car. You have to have something actually that works. Your messaging still has to be dialed in, your copying still has to work. But what you want to do is for all the people who are opening your emails, clicking your links, watching your videos, attending your webinar, watching replays, whatever your funnel looks like, you're putting your message out there for the people who are engaging with that message. If you don't have a deadline, you're leaving a lot of sales on the table. Because just psychologically, our brains are designed to protect us. And what protects us, ironically, is not what we need. But our brain wants us to stay safe. And so a lot of times we stay stuck. We don't move forward. Analysis paralysis.

If I'm reading your emails, even if I've heard you on a podcast before, seen a webinar, still there's a little bit of anxiety and trepidation. Is this going to work? Am I going to feel like a fool and have to ask for a refund? And so there are all these different concerns that are holding us stuck. And so some people just need an extra nudge to get them over the fence. The deadline's not Convincing them the deadline is making them take action on the messaging that you're already putting in front of them. But if you don't have the deadline there. The other adage that I've heard in my days of face to face sales is the delay of the sale and is the death of the sale. If you and I are. If I'm on a sales call and I'm talking to you and you seem very interested in it, but at the last second you say, well, you know what, I'm going to think about this. I'll get back to you in a week. I know that my odds of closing that sale have gone down dramatically.

So yeah, with this, it basically puts a deadline in their mind. A lot of us like to procrastinate or maybe look at our options or kind of string it out a little longer, but you're attaching this persuasion technique into I would imagine, most pieces of your marketing, any promotion.

Yeah.

I want to say something for people who consider themselves heart centered entrepreneurs. A lot of people are very, very, some people are reluctant to use deadlines because they've seen very aggressive, hard charging, even arm twisting types of sales message also was associated with a deadline. And they think, okay, I don't want to be like that. You know, that's not what my messaging is. And to that person I would say, I think you're doing yourself a huge disservice. And here's why. If you're, I mean, I build deadline funnel for you first of all so that you could be honest and use it with integrity. But here's the bigger point. The bigger point is that if you have a product and service that you truly believe in and you have seen for yourself that you, your coaching, your courses, whatever it is that you're selling, your product is changing people's lives for the better, then you are doing yourself in the world a disservice by not, you know, by leaving some sales on the table, by leaving people at the brink of crossing over that threshold and becoming a client with you, but not quite getting there, leaving them on the fence. The other part of this is that you know, even though there was a slight dip in advertising costs and it came back down with COVID the overall macro trend of advertising costs and competition on Facebook or Google or YouTube. So if you want is going up, costs are going up, competition is going up. What that means is that while you have people's attention, you really need to use all the tools in your toolbox within the boundaries of ethics to be able to get them off the fence and becoming a client so that you can get a positive return on your ad spend, so that you can reinvest it in things like building out your team, increasing your ad spend, reinvesting in your business so that you can reach a broader audience. This all comes back to do you want to play small with if you're a heart centered entrepreneur or do you want to play small and just kind of settle for average result, reaching an average number of people and just being okay with it or do you want to get your message out to the biggest audience that you can? If you want to reach the biggest audience that you can, then put us, put your offer in from the right people, but then give them a deadline because it's going to help grow your business because your business at the end of the day runs on money.

Yeah, yeah, that actually kind of answers the next question I was going to ask because you know, there is a camp of people out there that are like, well, these are just digital products. Why are you putting a deadline on a digital product when you know the scarcity in some people's minds is still sort of false Scarcity? Because it's a digital product, you're not running out. There's no real time limit. Right. It's just a time limit in a widget form on the website. You know, but I think the response you just gave sort of clarifies that for people.

Well, let me. So you brought up a really, really important point. You know, if you, I am certainly not advocating, you know, if you're, if you're selling, say ebooks and you say there's only 100 of these. Right. We can't duplicate anymore. Let me, you know, that obviously is a lie. That's not what I'm for. But there's no reason why you can't say, you know, I've put together a special offer, you know, because at the end of the day, you know, it's your product and what it is that you're actually selling, your core product is just one small component component of your overall offer. And we could talk about that. But you know, one of the ways that you can really tweak the effectiveness of your marketing message is by tweaking the actual offer. And again, what you are truly selling is just one small component of that offer. So one of my favorite methods of running an evergreen campaign is to actually have your product available to be purchased at any time. But what is special and unique and is available before the deadline is that special offer which could be a combination of bonuses. It could be a slightly different price. It even could be price difference in the way that it's paid for. So it could be instead of one pay, it could be multiple pay. So break it up into installments. There's a whole bunch of different ways to structure your offer. And it doesn't necessarily, by the way, have to be a price discount. It could, I've seen offers that are very successful where the price is the same, but you're just getting a whole lot more in terms of what comes with it, the bonuses. And so in the messaging is very simple. Look, yes, you can purchase this at any time, anytime that you like. But if you're interested, if you like what you're hearing right here, right now, you have an opportunity to get far more support and bonuses. And we're doing this because you just joined our newsletter list or because you just attended our webinar, or because, you know, it's my birthday promotion, like whatever, whatever, whatever the case may be. And so you can, you can set this up on Evergreen. Not the birthday promotion, but you can set, you know, you can set this up on Evergreen. Some people will set it up where after the deadline, it's no longer available to be purchased. So you mentioned James Tramko a little while ago.

I did a podcast with him a few years back where he did actually most of the talking where he was describing how he used our platform to triple his membership sales and he was using an open cart, closed cart, basically an automated launch model where someone would be on his list and there were only certain times that you could join join his program. And so there were basically three opportunities spaced out by, I think, a month in between. And during those open enrollment periods, you could join the membership. And if you missed out those opportunities, you had to sit on the sidelines and you would still get emails from him, but then there would be another open enrollment period and after three, he would either take you off the list or I forget exactly what he did. But I think you would be remembering removed from the list.

And so that's another way that you can do it. One of the ways that I describe our platform is we're the zapier of deadlines and urgencies. We connect with everything. So it doesn't matter what tech stack or combination of tools and platforms you're bringing to the table. Deadline Funnel is set up to work with all of them. And that might seem like a bold claim, but there's very, very, very few platforms that our system just doesn't work with.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm kind of curious. So like there's a lot of applications. I know in Deadline Funnel you have kind of like preset campaigns. I know you have a different term for it where it kind of what gives you essentially like a blueprint of how to implement this into their, into their own use case. But what do you suggest, like when someone is looking at their marketing campaigns and of course there's broad strokes here, but like where would you say, hey, this is low hanging fruit for someone to implement Deadline Funnel or even just urgency and scarcity.

So what I would say would be two things. Number one, I would recommend if someone has never put a product out there in the marketplace, don't start with Evergreen. I would say start with a launch, even if it's a launch to your own house list. Because.

You want to automate things that are working. You want to validate first and foremost that you've got your messaging right and that people want this and figure out some of the things that you can solve or understand while you're going through a much simpler live release of the product, what we usually call a product launch. Then once you've done that, then you can make sure that those clients are happy and then come back and automate it. And we have trainings and tutorials on how to take a launch that you did one time and how to automate it. One of my first case studies was with a guy named Nick who was basically manually rerunning his launches. And he started doing it more and more frequently. I think he got up to two a month. And at that time he found us. And what he was able to do do was even with that finely tuned launch that he had been improving for over a year, his conversions jumped, I think 38%, which was just pure profit for him. And he thinks, and I agree, that the reason why was because people didn't have to wait in between launches like they're interested. They're getting his emails, like, why make them wait two weeks or three weeks or four weeks before going into the next enrollment cycle for it? So for him, taking what worked in a livelong situation and automating it was a game changer. The second thing that I would say would be if you already have a somewhat evergreen automated intake system, so it might be an opt in form to what we typically call a lead magnet and then a series of emails where then someone could buy something.

But you don't have a deadline or you're not doing it the right way. I would say that would be another great place to start. So you're already getting results. You already have the infrastructure set up. Supercharge it by adding our platform into the mix and adding a deadline. So those are the two places where I would suggest people start.

I love it. So when it, when it comes to, I want, I want to talk about like some of the Evergreen Countdown stuff for a minute too. When it comes to Evergreen Countdowns, have you found some, like, best practices that work well as far as, like, how long should the timer be stretched out? Like, should it be like, you know, only give people two days, only give people a week? Have you found any sort of common themes that seem to work better than others or anything like that?

Well, yeah, so my guidance on that and then I'll give you another two other tips. So my guidance on that is I call it the Dolly Parton rule. She was in a movie called 9 to 5. And so as a starting point, I would say no less than five days, no more than nine days. Now, having said that, I want to emphasize that we have clients who saw an increase in their sales when they went beyond, you know, 10 days or two weeks. So there are exceptions to this. But if you're looking for a general starting place, best practice, then I would say, you know, it takes takes about five days typically depending or more to develop know like and trust to, to establish authority. You know, so anything shorter than that, it would need to be a lower ticket item, whatever. You know, low ticket in different markets means different things. But whatever that means where it's an easy yes in your market, you know, you could, you could go less than five days.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

I was just going to add a quick comment. I feel like, because the common wisdom when we've done launches in the past, it always seems like your biggest sales days are the very first day where you announce it, and then the very last day when everybody's like, oh crap, I better get in before this countdown ends.

Right.

That's kind of why I was asking is because, like, if you go like nine days, does that mean, like, okay, we're going to get a lot of sales? Actually, I'm thinking about this wrong because it's automated so people are coming in on different days. So I guess you're kind of making sales every day. So I just answered my own question.

And you're building the trust throughout those periods of days. Yeah, yeah.

Well, so, so make, make sure that I come back to this to, to other tips that I wanted to mention. But let's, let's take that first let's take that path for a second. So that last day, that's a phenomenon that I call the perfect persuasion window. So the last 24 hours of a promotion, whether it's a, a huge launch or just a series of three or four emails and you have a deadline, that 24 hours before the deadline is the perfect persuasion window. And I called that because all of the metrics that you want going up and to the right are going up and to the right. Your revenue per hour, your revenue per page visit, your revenue per email, click. All of these metrics are going up and to the right. And so you pointed out correctly that once you turn this evergreen, if you're running it the way that Nick did, where your time starts, based on when, when you opted in, then after, after a few days, every single day becomes that perfect persuasion window, that 24 hours period before the deadline for a cohort of people, a group of people who started a few days earlier. And so every day is that best sales day, like this conveyor belt of people going, going through that customer journey or prospect journey to become a customer. Does that make sense?

Yeah, and I love that visual too.

Oh, it's perfect. Yeah. And why wouldn't you want a steady stream of sales? It just seems like a lot less stress too. You're not hoping everything accumulates at this perfect launch and then you're done.

The other thing, just one more fine point on that, is that some people want to structure their promotions so that it always ends, happens on, let's say, a Sunday. It could be any day of the week. But we, we have features and mechanisms inside of our platform to make that happen as well. And so rather than having that perfect persuasion window every day now, it would be every week. And I'm not gonna say one is, you know, better than the other, just people. Most of our clients come to us with a very concrete idea of how their, how they want their campaign to work. And if they don't, we're also happy to give them some pointers based on, you know, based on what they tell us. The, the, the, the, the tips that I wanted to mention were the, the following. Actually, I'm going to add a third one. I'll try to roll through these pretty quick. So most of these you can, you can employ whether you're using our platform or not. But one of them is to, especially if it's, if your promotion is on the longer side, let's say like nine days or eight days or even longer. What I would recommend is to try adding in a fast action bonus. So if you've got a webinar that could be a fast action bonus for attendees. Essentially that's a deadline before the deadline for the main offer. If it's a launch, it might be the second or third day in the launch cycle where you say hey everyone who's joined up until now and everyone who joins by tonight, I'm throwing in this extra bonus, you know. And so what you will see is you'll have instead of a peak at the beginning and then the biggest peak at the end, you'll still have that but you also have a nice peak in the middle. And so that's another way to generate additional sales. In terms of timing something, especially if it's a multi day, like seven, eight, nine day or more sequence. I would actually recommend not showing the countdowns until the last 48 to 72 hours of your email promotion when you're starting to talk about the approaching deadline because it can actually have the opposite effect. Let's take the example of let's say that we're going to do a three week promotion. Let's say if you've got a countdown on there that's showing 21 days, 20 days, 19 days, the message that it sends is hey, don't worry, you've got plenty of time, you've got 19 days. Right. And it actually can, can work against you. So one of the features that we have built inside Deadline Funnel is that you can have your evergreen system set up so that you can say look on all the sales pages and checkout pages where the countdown will eventually show up. Don't show it until three days before the deadline for each person who's coming through based on their specific timing. Because that's when I'm going to start mentioning it in the emails. Right. So hopefully, hopefully that makes sense.

Totally.

And then the last, yeah and then the last, the last tip I just want to mention real quick is it's very, very important and this, this is, this is advice I've been giving out for years and no one has come back and said yeah, this didn't work 100% of the times. If you try it, it works. And there's a few things in marketing by the way that you can say that about. Send, send more than one email on the line last day of the deadline. So first of all you should have your automations be pulling people who purchase out of your marketing sequence. So the only people who are going to get these multiple emails, which I recommend, three, the only people who will get Them are the people who have been engaged with your marketing, but they haven't yet pulled the trigger. When you send three emails on the last day, you're going to make more sales, period, because people get busy. I've got, I don't know if you guys can, can.

You know, have felt this yourself, but there have been things that I truly intended to purchase. I got the email in the morning saying, hey, today's the deadline. And I, for whatever reason got distracted. I paid off, took the kids to school and then I forgot about it. And I'm like, damn it, I really, truly wanted to buy that. I wish they had sent me one more pestering email to say, listen, doors are closing.

Yeah.

So, you know, you need to, you need to put, you need to send out more than one email on the last day. And if, and if you're the type of marketer who really feels I'm uncomfortable and you kind of squirm when you hear that advice. The good news about Evergreen is that you only have to be brave once. Once you queue up once. Once you queue up the emails, it's, it's set it and forget it. You know, your funnel is set up and you only had to be brave once. And you can enjoy the fruits of that bravery for, you know, for the rest of the lifetime of that promotion.

And the key thing to remember is you're helping them out. It's, it's, you're giving them, if you know it's really going to serve them, then you're, you're essentially giving them a deal. You're giving them a great opportunity and you're reminding them so you don't have this regret later on if they've chosen that's of interest to them. How many. I'm just kind of curious just because I bet a couple people ask, are curious about the timing of those emails on the last day. Do you have kind of a set three times of that last day you send those emails?

Yeah, I mean, I typically will send them out 7 or 8am is the first one, 1 or 2pm as the, as the midday and then the, the last one around 8, 9 or 10.

At night for like a midnight close.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, because I, I, I don't, I don't want to send it out at 11:30. You know, I mean, obviously depending on the time zone and people's schedules, like, like some people are going to see it, but I, I, I do want to give them enough time to actually take, take action on it and pull the trigger and by enough Time. I'm not taking saying that it takes multiple hours for someone to go through a checkout process. My point is that a lot of people go to bed, so I want to make sure I get it in front of as many people as possible. That makes sense.

I'm curious what would be the merits of having a longer deadline versus shorter deadline? Because you kind of mentioned somewhere in the five to nine day window seems to be about ideal. What would be some use cases where they'd want to go nine days versus five days.

Yeah, that's a great question. So for, for anything that, so typically your, your higher ticket decisions, you know, someone, someone needs more, you know, more case studies. You need like you need to build a more thorough and in depth argument, so to speak, or messaging for, you know, why someone should invest this amount of money with you. You know, and again it's what a lot of money is depends on, you know, on, on the space. Like in the, in the fitness space. Asking someone for 500 bucks might be considered high ticket. You know, in the, in the stock trading space or certainly the business coaching space, you know, 10,000 or 20,000 or 50,000 is, you know, is a lot of money. So the higher the ticket item is, you know, the more someone has to deliberate on the, the purchase, the more emails and videos and webinars and case studies you're probably going to need in order to really make a solid case. Both an emotional appeal and a logical appeal for someone to cross over and become a client. But the other thing, and these two kind of go hand in hand. But the other one would be regardless of the price would be if there's additional complexity to it or if you're reaching out to a less aware audience. So for example, if you're, if you're selling to an audience who already recognizes yep, I have this problem, I'm looking for this type of solution and your ad got in, in front of them while they're searching for that solution, you basically have to connect the dots of you know what, why me? Why not like why me? Why now? Right, right. But you, but, but I don't have to educate you like. So let me take a different approach.

If you didn't realize that you even had the problem, or if you realize you had the problem but you had never considered even the type of solution.

That I'm presenting first I have to educate you on that. I understand your problem even better than you do that there's a completely different solution than the ones that you might have naturally considered. And then we can get to, why me, why now? And so that that journey takes, takes a longer time to put together the benefit of doing that by the way. And this is kind of getting into some advanced stuff, but very powerful strategy would be that, you know, it's, it's a little bit easier to go after people who already know that they have the problem and really they're just looking for the solution.

Right.

However, there's fewer of those people. So. So as you begin to scale your business, you want to reach out to people that you can serve but they haven't yet recognized, oh, I've got this problem and here's the solution. And so your ads are reaching out to, you might call it a colder audience or even a less aware audience.

Yeah. And it's, it, I mean it goes back to like foundations of marketing. You know, you're essentially just, just, you know, you're knowing the level of awareness and the type of offer, depending on the audience, how sophisticated they are. You're kind of walking them through this journey and you're giving them, I guess. Yeah. The points are what, crushing. Any objections along that email journey or marketing journey, whatever that is.

Oh, go ahead.

Yeah. Oh, I just wanted to actually ask and say back to your first tip, which is the fast action bonuses. I thought that was super smart that you could probably pair with an education process and say, hey, here's actually a bonus and here's the, you know, the fast action move for that bonus. But it could be actually moving them kind of closer, a little faster that way. So you can get those spikes throughout that, that nine day, let's say sequence too.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Another thing that can be done with, with Evergreen, Evergreen Funnels and automations is. And again, this is not your first step in the journey. Like this is not the first thing that you do when you sign up for Dublin Funnel. But down the road what you can do is that you can set up email automations where people are going through and they're consuming your content. You're developing authority, know like and trust. And then what you can do is you can use an event inside of those emails. So imagine a sequence where there is no deadline at the end of that sequence. It's just to develop, know like and trust authority, et cetera. But what you're looking for is a signal that someone is engaging that content. So in that you might invite them to watch a previous webinar replay, which could be pure content. When they click on that webinar replay, it pulls them out of that automation and then puts them into the automation that then is a little, is more, more focused and ends in a deadline. And so now you're using that behavior based marketing, those behavior triggers to move someone from sort of a warm or cold type of, type of email, sort of an incubation process type of email series into a sales cycle. And if they don't buy, you can then send them back into an email sequence which is again designed to deploy, develop further, know like and trust and authority. That's super smart. Yeah.

I'm curious when it comes to like actually making it available again, so like the deadline went down, it's no longer available, is there any sort of like best practice or consensus on like, when's a good time to open it up again and you know, start another sort of round without feeling, you know, unethical about reopening it?

Yeah. So another great question, and I'll give two answers to this one, is that there are going to be people just like in the example that I gave you, where I genuinely have missed the deadline and wish that I had been told more often, hey, this is closing because I would have purchased. So there are going to be people with cash in hand who are convinced and ready to purchase, but they miss the deadline for whatever reason, even if you send out those three emails. So what you can do is some people want to do an immediate reopen like 24 to 48 hours later. So if you're inclined to do this, my advice to you would be to change the offer. Remember, what you're selling is just one component of your overall offer. So one very clear way that you could change this would be like. And some people, especially if you're selling a high ticket offer, want what you have very desperately. But for whatever reason, they can't bring themselves. Maybe they, maybe they literally don't have enough room on their credit card. So what, what you could do is you could offer a payment plan, whether it adds up to the same amount of money as you were offering before or it's a little bit higher. You could offer a payment plan or you could offer a $1 trial. There's a whole bunch of different ways that you could reopen that offer and change it. You could remove one of the bonuses, but if you fundamentally change the offer, but it's still a very powerful offer in my mind. There's nothing wrong with saying, listen, we've, we've gotten requests for, you know, for a payment plan, we're going to remove one of the bonuses just to be faithful to the people who took action before the deadline. And we're only going to make this available for 24 hours. So if you're, if you're one of the people that really, really wanted in on this, this is your opportunity starting tomorrow. So pay attention to your email inbox. You, you're only going to have 24 hours to pull the trigger on this, and then, you know, then you're going to have to wait another six months or whenever we do it again. And so that, that would be the way that you could message that reopen. Now, what you were asking about was reopening it at some time in the future. And I think a lot of that determines is based on.

How many other products that you have to offer. Um, but in general, I, I would say 30 days. Um, you know, there, there's no scientific evidence behind that, but just in terms of my experience, what I feel comfortable with, it would be minimum of 30 days as a, as a starting point.

Yeah, I'm sure it depends on the type of offer, if you're actually fulfilling things or if it's digital.

I mean, there's a lot of variables.

For sure, but 30 days is pretty good.

Yeah.

And, and of course, it also greatly depends on what you've said, you know, in your offer. If you've said this is the only time it's available in the next six months, then what I said about 30 days obviously goes out the window.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Yeah. So a big part of our business model, and I know, like a lot of our listeners, business models, is affiliate marketing. We actually generate most of our revenue in our business through affiliate marketing. And it sounds to me like there's a lot of implications for something like Deadline Funnel and using these scarcity tactics in affiliate marketing as well. And I'm sure this is something that you've spoken on before, but do you have any advice for affiliate marketers on using deadlines specifically when the products that they're promoting don't have concrete deadlines?

Yeah. So another good one. I used to be the number one affiliate for a software product called Post Affiliate Pro. And this is years and years and years ago, maybe a decade ago. But the way that I did it was that, first of all, I was a user of the software and I had found that there were some shortcomings with it that I, using my coding skills, had solved. And so I created some training videos around it and also some free templates which were the same templates that I had used to bridge this gap and this shortcoming. So I created a sort of an epic blog post. You would call it today on, on what I liked and what I didn't like and then said, look, you can, you can purchase it here, here's a direct link to the company or you can purchase it through my affiliate link and it will cost the same amount of money to you, but I will give you, you know, give you these additional bonuses and here's what they are. And so that's how I became the number one affiliate for, for that company. And I drove at the time I was driving AdWords traffic to that blog post. By the way, not sure, not sure if that still works today, but the concept of adding in your own bonuses for someone else's product is something that is the overall tactic that you can use. And the way that you would add a deadline on this would be that you would need to have your, these people ideally would be subscribers on your email list. And so you would use Deadline Funnel plus your email platform to put a time limit on, on taking action. So just, just because it's, just because it's not your product doesn't mean that you can't have a deadline on it. Now you may not be able to put a deadline on the, what's it called? On, on, on the person's sales page, right? So if you're promoting my product, you may not be able to put the countdown on my checkout page. However, you should at least try. You might like the person might be willing to set up a special page for you and to put your Deadline Funnel code on that page, you should at least ask. But even if you aren't able to do that, you could have a page which is. Here's a simple way to do it on an automated basis would be to have your own page where someone enters in their information, their email to get their bonuses and you put Deadline Funnel on that page and you say look, go, go order the product, then come back over here, fill out the information. And if you fill out the information and we give us gives a little bit of time for my team to just validate that you made the purchase and, and yeah, we'll, we'll send it to you, but it's got to be before this deadline and that, and if, if that page for them to enter in their information is expired by Deadline Funnel, then that's a very easy mechanism for you to offer these bonuses on, on an evergreen basis and have a.

Deadline that's super smart and clever and you probably still even make sales after the deadline. People just won't get the Bonuses anymore.

Well, what's to say? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's a special bonus package. You can offer all sorts of stuff to basically make different packages for different times of promotion periods.

Yeah.

Or evergreen it, of course. That's even the best. Love it. We're gonna have to do that.

My wheels are spinning right now. Of all the pages, I want to go and add some. And scarcity. Better scarcity too.

And Jack even mentioned a few things we're working on, which is making our automated email sequence just way more dynamic and segmented based off of all these, you know, dynamic, you know, click and then that pauses campaigns. So like what you're saying with deadline funnels. Yeah. Build trust. You can. They're interested in a product or whatever. Okay. Spit them out to a two or three day sequence with a, you know, a deadline to that and then kick them back in the sequence after that stops. So you can really layer this. This is where our minds get like, we start whiteboarding like crazy after episodes like this. That's a good thing. Yeah. To wrap it up, I guess. Where I know you mentioned Amazon earlier in this, before we started. I'm kind of curious if there's anything that you can quickly say we can learn from things like prime day or. I know they split test like crazy. Are there any Amazon things? Because we all use it. We see their promotions all the time. Anything.

Yeah. So Amazon had some of their biggest days ever in terms of sales records on Amazon prime days. And so it was basically just dedicated to these ongoing Flash sales that were happening for specific periods of time. So Amazon, there's a lot of reasons why this day crushed it. It wasn't just the urgency and the scarcity. However, one of the things that I like to point out is that the urgency and the scarcity definitely played a role in it. They would show you how much time was left to get in on this product during this Flash sale, as well as how many units were left. And so it was really.

There would be X number of units available in this Flash sale or this time, whichever came first. If we run out of units before. Or let's just use a real number like if, if, if all 200. Like if 200 people take us up on this offer before the time runs out, then we're gonna, we're gonna pull it down, you know, before the, before the time runs up. And by the way, this kind of goes back to the question that you were asking earlier on of, you know, did Amazon actually run out of product? No. And they weren't saying that they were saying, look, we, this is a, this is a special promotion and you're getting it for a special price. And we're limiting it because we decided to, to X amount of time or X number of people. Right. They weren't saying these are the last units on earth of this particular video game.

One of the things to really pay attention to is that based Amazon is like Google in the sense that just the mountain of traffic that they get on a second by second basis gives them the ability to split test like crazy. This is the company that has measured the effect of.

Decreasing page load time from half a second down to 1/10 of a second and even lower. They're measuring everything. So the reason why I bring this up is that you should pay attention to what Amazon is doing and at least give it a try. It's not to say that everything Amazon does is going to work for you, but if they continue, and then, by the way, they're using urgency and scarcity more and more often, not just during their Amazon prime days. And so if they're doing it and using it, you should sit up and take notice and think, maybe this will work in my market. Because one of the other things that I sometimes hear is, yeah, you know, I truly believe that deadlines would work in the marketing space or the whatever space. But you don't understand. My situation's different. My people are more sophisticated. My people don't fall for that. First of all, the whole idea of, you know, won't fall for that. I hope by now it's clear to anyone listening that this isn't about getting someone to fall for something. This is, this is legitimate, honest, like having a deadline that, that is imposed on someone to take, take action on a really, really great deal. We're not tricking anyone. No one is falling for something. Number two, if you're selling to human beings, they are, they are impacted by urgency and scarcity, you know, so don't think that your audience won't fall for it. It really comes down to the messaging that you use. If you don't want to sound like Russell Brunson, then don't sound like Russell Brunson. You can still use Countdowns, but do it. You know, I've got some clients who like one client in particular who quadrupled her business and bought out her business partner. And she teaches yoga instructors how to go from just their studio to having, having an online platform. These are, these are yoga instructors. These are not cutthroat Internet marketers.

Right?

And she, you know, and Deadline Funnel is a big part of how she was able to do that. She doesn't sound like Russell Brunson. You know, you don't have to like, by the way, I'm not knocking Russell Brunson, but you know, he has a certain, he has a certain tone. So, you know, you don't have to sound like fill in the name marketing guru. You know, you don't have to sound like me. You can sound like your own authentic, like whatever message you're putting out there, give people an amazing offer, but put a deadline on it. Love it.

Perfect way to wrap it up.

Yeah. So speaking of deadline funnels, where can people go learn more about it? Is there anything that we missed about the platform that maybe you want to kind of talk about real quick and then tell people how they can go learn more and grab it for their own business?

Well, we didn't talk about this ahead of time, but do you guys want to. What we could do is we could set up a special page for your audience where we could give them a slightly longer, you know, a longer trial.

Let's do that. Yeah. And maybe we'll throw in something, maybe we can scheme something up afterwards. But yeah, we can, I guess, create a link on the fly.

So how about if we, how about if we use your main URL and throw the word deadline at the, at the end of it and make that the call to action?

Yeah.

So hustleandflowchart.com deadline would be it then.

That's it. And yeah, there'll be a special page there and we'll figure out. It'll be worth it for you. Yeah. If you made it this far, you definitely want to at least try it in your business. It's a, it's a no brainer and I'm sure you can definitely.

Well, are there any other, like, any other like, features or benefits of Deadline Funnel that we haven't touched on that anybody listening who's kind of on the fence about it, like, you know, is there anything else that maybe we should still touch on around it?

Yeah, one last thing, and this is probably the most important one, but you have to experience it to, to really believe it. My, my team is there to, to help you out. So, you know, we buy software as well. One of the things that's most frustrating to me is when someone has the live chat intercom thing on their, on their site and you know, you, you spend the time to type in the message and it says they typically respond and two days. Right. We're, we're there to actually help you guys out. And I'm not going to promise that at midnight we're going to be there within five minutes. But typically during business hours and even over the weekends, we are very, very quick to reply. And the other thing is that my team will do a free onboarding call with you because we really want to make sure that if you have any questions that we're there to answer it for you. Because fundamentally, like what I keep telling my team, and they're probably tired of hearing it, but I love saying it, is that no one woke up today and said, boy, I hope someone has another software platform that I can sign up for and put in my credit card and pay monthly or annually. What they do want is they want the freedom and flexibility that comes with having a business that scales and having the ability to do it in a way that they don't have to be ashamed of. They can do it with integrity, but at the same time, maximize the amount of revenue that they're getting from their ads and from all of their marketing campaigns so they can grow the business of their dreams. That's what we're here to do. Deadline Funnel just happens to be the delivery mechanism that we use to do that. So my team keeps that in mind. The other thing that really drives us crazy, you guys have probably had this experience where if you're talking with XYZ Software company and you say, hey, we're trying to make this work with fill in the blank ABC Software company, as soon as you mention the other software company, like, yep, not our problem. Go check their docs. We're not going to help you out. Our job, literally is to help you figure out how to connect the various pieces and to get to the final end. It's not to teach you how to use our software, although of course we will do that. It's to help you have an evergreen funnel. So if you are thinking, this sounds complicated. I'm not a techie. It's okay. You're not the only person who, who has joined us and wasn't a techie. You don't have to be a techie to do this.

Yeah. And like we were mentioning earlier, I think you have these recipes and ways to really like, kind of help them out and give them a campaign and all that. Just right inside there. So it's. Yeah. And then obviously taking all the, all the things we spoke about here, I think would be a brilliant. So go check it out. Go get it. Hustleandflowchart.com Deadline and Jack I think this is amazing, man. Thank you for your time.

Yeah, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk to you and your audience.

That was a good one. Another good one.

Oh, another good one. That's a lot of good ones.

A lot of. I mean they're all good ones. Like I said.

Oh man, this is. Yeah, this is gonna be one of those Newt grabbers again for me. All these different little tips that Jack was talking about. Obviously a lot of relations to Deadline Funnel, which is definitely go give it a shot, at least a trial. But just so those tips like he was talking about the three main tips that he covered, what the fast action bonuses, the 48 to 72 hour and then the multiple emails. I mean you can use that just now a little bit more manual, but boom, boost conversions immediately.

Yeah, well, I think for me I've always had this sort of. Not always. Cause I used to use countdowns but over the last several years I've had this aversion to using countdowns and the time scarcity on products because I had this sort of like, I don't, I don't really like this fake scarcity concept. Like I don't really like this idea that we're telling people you've got a week to get this when everybody else is seeing different times. And I think the bigger problem was when you saw the countdowns that were like 24 hour countdowns and then tomorrow it just reset. I think those are a bigger problem.

But where it's like blatantly obvious like that is not real or the ones that you refresh and it just goes back to whatever random time they chose to start with.

Well, I think he really reframed it because using something like Deadline Funnels like he was talking about, you are. It is scarce. Once the timer's over, you don't get access to this product. The scarcity is real. And the reason we're doing the scarcity is we want you to take action now. We don't want you to put this off. We are doing this for your benefit. Take action now.

Right.

And I think that sort of reframing of the sort of countdown scarcity really helped me out.

Like. Yeah, no, it's. Yeah, it's true. And you are true to your scarcity. It could be automated and that's fine, but you still lock down whatever that offer is that you were offering. And it could just be a bonus package or it could be a call with you or I mean there's like. And we didn't really get. He listed some But I was a fan of the fact that you can automate, you know, a drip or not a drip, but like a deadline campaign, a countdown campaign, some event. But in the middle of that event, sprinkle in these like mini scarcity or urgent type things like scarcity milestones. Like I was like, ooh, okay, that's cool because. And this is kind of like what we're doing with our business. Just a little inside look and kind of mention on the podcast is where that's how we're looking at the email system that is behind every piece of content we put out there is when you join our list, you know, we've kind of taken the blanket approach, communicate and to run promos and all that stuff, which you know, a lot of companies and marketers will do. But it's kind of like the older approach. Yeah, it's, I mean hate to say it, but kind of I guess lazier because it's not as thought through strategically. Yeah. So like we're rebuilding, you know, this whole email system that's dynamic but you can basically apply exactly what Jack was saying.

Yeah, yeah.

Like make these like mini little dynamic deadline funnels sprinkled through this automated sequence and you're just kind of, you're kind of stacking promos where you're always getting sales consistently. Yep. I mean it's just amazing.

Shout out to Joe Kearns, by the way, who's helping us with a lot of these automations and also George Bryant who's helped us with a lot of these automations. Those dudes are ninjas.

You want to say any more about the email stuff? Just like I know it's, it's like literally in process right now.

Yeah, we're building it all out. So the segmentation is, it's going to be pretty ninja. Right. There's going to be a main sequence that people are kind of going through. So there's multi day sequences where we're putting content in front of them, but based on what content they click into, they're sort of raising their hand and telling us, well this is an interest of mine. And by clicking on some of these links in this main sequence, they're going to get pushed over into other sequences that are relevant to the things they've raised their hand and showed interest in.

Yeah. So, and that's, that's why I was like, whoa, hold on. You can do like a quick little mini, you know, like if, if someone, let's say in an email sequence we're talking about a product or sorry, a topic yeah, we're teaching something like email marketing. And we'll say, like, okay, well, there's a tool that can really speed up your email growth or whatever. Right. And someone clicks, let's say convert box because does that.

Yeah.

And. But then now it can send them to more content within that. Yeah, that email campaign and take them to like a little mini deadline funnel. Exactly. That's fricking. Hey, here's convert box. Like, yeah, it's the same price for everybody, but like, you get this unique.

Bonus package if you get within this time limit.

Exactly within. Yeah, let's call it the 48 hours.

I mean, after this episode, again, it really sort of shifted my thinking around countdown timers. And we're probably going to use them on a few things. We're going to do some experimentation with the concepts we learned in this episode. So, you know, if you start seeing countdowns on some of our pages now, you know why. But there's one other thing that I want to mention that I thought was pretty frickin ninja. And he, he kind of, he said it real quickly towards the end of the episode when we were talking about affiliate marketing.

What's that?

He said, like, one of the things you could, you could try to do is if you're promoting a product as an affiliate, go talk to the product creator and ask them to create a landing page and embed your countdown on it. So now you have a custom landing page with a countdown that's tied to your email list. Right. So now let's just, you know, using the convert box example, maybe we can go talk to Dean. I'm not saying this is going to happen, but we can go talk to Dean, for example, and say, hey, can you like, duplicate your main sales page just so we have like our own custom landing page? And oh, by the way, just drop this code on the page for me and we'll control the timelines and countdowns and all that on here.

And dude, that could be an automated sequence for any affiliate partner that would be open to that.

Now you're promoting an affiliate product that has a countdown timer directly tied to your email list. And when people open and click on those emails. And he kind of said that real quick, but that single comment, like, got my wheel spinning. I'm like, ooh, well now for the.

First time, y', all, you're listening to something we'll most likely implement once we get that email system cranking. Yeah, we'll start chipping away at every, what affiliate promotion that we have and go to the creator. This is a strategy that anyone can also do. And then start asking them. Yeah. And just go one to one and figure out like all these kind of special pages, landing pages, I mean, it's actually good example of that is what Jack has made for us. You know, for like if you want to go check out a page is hustle and flowchart.com/deadline. Yeah. And yes, it's our affiliate link which we created on the fly when we're on the call with him. But I think he's. Yeah, he's some special offer. But you could see a video of us on his page which we're going to create after we're done recording this. Yep. And so it's kind of like guarantee there's a deadline funnel, like our, you know, countdown timer on that page. So I would say go there for. Yeah.

If you want an exact example of the exact type of thing we're talking about, about how to be more effective as an affiliate marketer, all you have to do is go to hustle and flowchart.com/deadline and you'll see an example. This is great because we're teaching and promoting at the same time. We're kind of laughing so you sound like salesmen, but totally.

But it's cheesy as hell, but it's, it's true.

Yeah.

I mean it's, it's going to be a great example of what we're talking about. But also you should grab deadline final because we're affiliates of it and it's.

A great tool and you like to. Yeah. Use deadlines and you know.

Yeah.

You're our crew, so. Thank you. But no, in all seriousness, I think it's absolutely brilliant. And you know, I keep going to this email thing because. Because of Joe Kearns and people and guys like. Well, definitely George Bryant and he had us at his house for half a day. Oh.

Just mapping out email sequences for us on his whiteboard.

And then now Joe Kearns basically took that sequence and frickin like made it, you know, micro and like here's exactly step by step and. But I just keep. The thing that I learned is you learned, I think is like, there's just a new way of marketing. There's a new way of it's not a shout to everybody thing. It's not a broadcast to everybody at a specific time or every single day even. It's like, no, let's create some journeys, let's create some paths for people. And then you got Jack over here saying like, yo, don't Pee in your own pool. Don't be in our pool, because you're screwing yourself. You're also screwing, you know, these other people in the business community that you probably respect and like. Yep. Why don't you use a, like something that's actually kind of enhanced than just some random countdown timer you found on Fiverr or Fiverr, but some, you know, whatever.

I'm sure you could find them on Fiverr.

I'm sure. Yeah. Someone would make it for you. Yes.

No, I mean, that was a great. And I think we both had some good rants here. Speaking of automation, let's give a shout.

Out to our sponsor, our boy and our friend, and our favorite webinar software, Easy Webinar. So Easy Webinar, they're a sponsor of the show. They have been for a long time. So props to them for being a sponsor and thank you.

Props to them for being a sponsor.

Yeah, no, it didn't make sense, but thank you very much. I mean, we've already thanked them, but we'll thank them officially.

So Easy Webinar, you can actually do live webinars, but you can also do automated webinars. And you know what's great with an automated webinar? Using time scarcity and deadlines.

Right.

So it really, really ties into what we're talking about here. If you want like a fully automated system where all you're doing is driving leads into it and then your system is in the background just closing these leads for you, what do you need? You need like an autoresponder. You need deadline funnels for the. To build in the deadline scarcity. And you need like an automated webinar platform to do the selling for you.

Yep.

Boom, there you go.

No, it's perfect. I mean, we have. So if you want to like, if you're curious about webinars, what we did talk to Sam Bell recently. And so there's a whole episode there of like most of that episode was talking about webinars and cool strategies that he knows how to start with a live. And then what you can do with Easy Webinar. And then you have the evergreen portion of it. And then what? Joel Irwe was also on the podcast, I think a couple of years ago or so. He's like, Mr. Yeah, he's coming back, but he's like Mr. Webinar. So, yeah, check it out.

Easywebinar.com Hustle Kasey set up a coupon for people who listen to this show.

So if you go to, you'll see it there.

Easywebinar.com hustle I believe it was 20% off for the monthly, 25% off for the annual. Go check it out. Easywebinar.com Hustle Thanks Casey and Easy.

Webinar hey and tell your friends about the show, man.

Gal, we need more listeners.

We would love some of your friends to hang out with us too. So we're just one big friend group. So share this episode thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find the this episode that you just listened to and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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