John Crestani - Six-Figure Per Month Affiliate Marketing Strategies

My goal has been to create a monster impact in the world. I mean, you know, I have a business plan and, you know, the last line is asteroid mining. And because I. That's like. That's like the level I dream at. I want to be a part of, like, moving forward in the world. I want to be. I want to cross the oceans and, like, discover new lands. And affiliate marketing allows me to run, like, a super lean business while I'm figuring out, out, like, how to make a big impact in the world.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, all right. Yo. It's. It's a good day, my friend.

It's a good day. I could tell you're exhausted by today.

Well, I mean, just behind the scenes again, like always. We always record a bunch of podcasts in one day, and then we choose to the end of the day to record our intros.

Yeah, well, no, I mean, today I think we're, like, really, really, really great episodes, but we definitely went way longer than normal today.

Very long. So. All right, let's speed this intro up. And today, though, like, so this is the first interview that we did of this day. Again, behind the scenes, very confusing.

Which could come out before an interview that we did later in the day. We don't know.

Don't confuse him further. Okay. But yeah, we have John Crestani, the show today. Yeah. And this guy is a. I'm just very impressive entrepreneur. Affiliate marketer, but just lifestyle entrepreneur. Not sure if he would call himself. I'm pretty dang sure It's a very low stress, the way he sets it up, his business.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he flies helicopters and. What is it? Kiteboarding? Was that the other thing?

He's sailing? He was surfing out in Malibu. So, you know, he's. He's got some nice location in places to play there, but he's strategically built a life for him to do that.

Yeah.

And he does that through affiliate marketing, and that's what we get into today.

And you know us, we love affiliate marketing. It's like our favorite business model. So we actually dive in. And it's legit. Yeah, it is legit. And we nerd out about affiliate marketing strategies. We nerd out about how he grew his YouTube channel. One of the things that's really cool that we get into this is he's actually doing affiliate marketing and selling things online through TV commercials. And we're like, I don't think I know anybody else who's Doing that. Let's talk about that.

Yeah. So he. He breaks down his strategy about how he's doing this on TV with any. Breaks down the whole thing for you. So if you're even remotely interested, you know, there's a big point in here saying, like, hey, Facebook ads, the more that people are talking about a platform probably means that you're a little too late to the platform. You're probably going to pay way too much, and there's way too much competition, but start exploring some new stuff. So maybe TV's one of those for you.

Yeah.

And we also talked about whether or not affiliate marketing was a legitimate business model. We'll let you decide after listening to this episode.

And one last thing is at the end, sometimes we'll ask about book recommendations.

Well, he.

Brought the A game with the book right here.

He literally was like, hold, please. And we did some background elevator music.

And then basically, you grabbed a stack of books. A lot of them were non or were fiction books. Like, and you'll hear why he's reading all these fiction books and some sci fi, but also just like, just general things that lets him see into the future, basically. And ironically, these fiction books actually have affiliate marketing baked into them in some fashion. So I love the way that he breaks down the affiliate marketing model and how it's actually something that some of the biggest businesses are operating from, but you just might not know it. And. Yeah, so the books are really cool. The whole thing's cool. John's an awesome guy.

Look him up on YouTube.

Yes. Yeah, check him out on YouTube.

So just go to YouTube, search up John Crestani. That's C R E S T A N I. John Crestani. He's got a killer YouTube channel where we actually talk about it a little bit, where he's just really teaching outside the box affiliate strategies. Things like how to be an affiliate marketer on Yelp, how to be an affiliate marketer on Quora. Like, really just kind of random stuff. But, like, they're legit videos. They're cool videos. So we definitely recommend checking out his YouTube YouTube channel.

Tell them we sent you.

Tell them. Yeah, that would be actually.

Why not, right?

Yeah. One of the comments, like, I heard you on Hustle and Flowchart. That would be. That would make our day if you did that.

Our day.

And of course, we're taking notes on this one.

We're always taking notes, man. So sue is taking notes, and Sue's the bomb. So sus are fabulous. Note taker. Always taking notes. So you don't have to. They can just be in the moment, soak it in. So go to hustleandflowchart.com comp c o m p. That's hustleandflowchart.com computer. You have two weeks to get these notes for this episode. They go away in two weeks, so be quick. Hustleinflowchart.com comp get the notes. And now it's time for Mr. Jonny Boy. Let's go.

We're getting faster at this.

John, how you doing, my man?

Dude, doing pretty rad.

Yeah.

How about you guys?

Freaking awesome. It's Monday. This is a, it's a rare recording day for us.

Yeah, we actually never record on Mondays and we woke up today and we're kind of like, shit, Monday's not the best day to record podcasts on because we're not like in the flow of the week yet. We're kind of like, this is our first thing we did of the morning. But I think, I know, I think the pre conversation we had before we hit record sort of got us lit up. So I think we're, we're, we're in the right headspace and energized.

I woke up like five, I woke up like five to ten minutes to go, man. I just like threw down, did some push ups. I'm like, oh, I gotta put on some clothes.

Like.

They might, they might actually show this on video.

So we just might, if you're cool with it. Yeah, man. And so you're up in Malibu. Yeah, we're just riffing back and forth like us just. Yeah, it's nice to have a little land away from a bunch of people. And you're in the middle of what, rebuilding a home? I mean, you went through a gnarly fire a year and a half ago, you said. So it's like, oh, that's a whole bag of worms. I bet. But.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it was definitely, it was definitely pretty crazy. You know, I, I woke up and the fire was right like a hundred yards away from my bedroom. So I woke up and I was like, oh my God, like, what the heck? And thankfully my wife was staying at her parents and kids were staying at her parents, you know, the grandparents house. But I was like, what do I do? And I was like, okay. And it was like that classic moment where you think to yourself, okay, I have like three things I can get. Like, what do I grab? It's like you have like 60 seconds to exit your house. What do you get? And you know, I got my keys, my wallet, My phone. And then after that I was like, okay, what do I get? It was just the cats and the hedgehog and like.

Hedgehog, that's cool.

Yeah.

He should be fast enough to run out though, right? I'm just kidding.

I put the cats in my truck and then I was like, shoot, I forgot the hedgehog because he has this big case. And I was like a. Do I leave the hedgehog? Like technically they're illegal in California.

And.

My wife hates it. And then I was like, no, I can't give her the satisfaction of leaving the hedgehog. So I just ran back in, I grabbed the hedgehog and yeah, that was it. I didn't get anything else. Thank you.

Do you want us to cut this from the recording? Just for legal purposes?

We don't know where John, I don't think it's okay.

I don't think the property proper authorities are tuning in, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Shove it.

I'm just kidding.

Oh, man. I mean, I can only imagine, I mean, what a year and a half ago. Because we've seen some videos on YouTube. You have all these like little clips and all that stuff. And I think that's what we saw. We're like, holy crap. Like people get a chance, go check out that video because it's like, well done. It shows you like at your old house.

Oh yeah.

I forget exactly what you were saying in there, but it's basically this story.

We did some drone footage of the. Of the like destruction afterwards. Those fires come fast.

Yeah. One of my old neighborhoods, my house luckily didn't burn down, but the neighbor's house directly next door did. And we woke up at like 3am or something and there was just like, there was a hill behind our house and the fire was just kind of coming down the hill and they. And helicopters were flying over telling us to evacuate. So like I loaded a whole bunch of shit into my truck, but I actually never left. Actually was out in the backyard with the garden hose just like spraying.

Don't be that.

Yeah, there's one old dude on our block. So the only house that survived on the block because I said all the houses burnt, there's one that survived. And the one that survived was this like 80 year old dude who had his own fire ho. Fire hydrant hookup or he had his own fire hose to hook up. And he like the fire hose was like a hundred yard. I mean they're heavy these things. Like he was. He showed it to me in his garage. It's. And they're super heavy. And just like the nozzle, it's like just pure metal. So he walked down to, like, the end of the block, hooked it in, like. And I guess he just watered all around his house in the middle of the night and just created a moat. And that dude had been, like, preparing like a diameter. I mean, the dude was gnarly. And his house was the only one that saved because he sprayed a moat.

He probably lived there for close to 80 years. So he knew what the hell to do.

Yeah, he's been there for over 50 years. So he's like. It's like, this ain't my first rodeo.

Gotta learn from that guy, man. Yeah, well, other than fires, I mean, you're doing some other cool. I mean, you. We. You know, we're nerding out, I think. Do you guys know each other? I'm trying to remember if maybe not.

Yeah, I think. I think we've interacted a couple times. Maybe on some Facebook messages or something, or on Facebook comments or something like that. But no, I mean, we've never really connected other than that. I don't think.

Well, everything's affiliate marketing with you. I know. And even the sign or the painting you have behind you proves affiliate marketing. License to print money.

St. Henry on Instagram. This guy's rad. So that's awesome.

I'm trying to remember how I actually came across your name originally. I think it was probably on YouTube. I probably stumbled across some of your YouTube videos because we're big into affiliate marketing too. 90% of our income, 80% of our income comes from affiliate marketing these days. So I mean, like, that's, like, that's the rabbit holes I tend to go down. So I'm pretty sure that's probably how I discovered you or that's how I came across. Your stuff was on YouTube somewhere. But, I mean, you've got some, like, outside the box affiliate strategies. I mean, you're on there talking about, like, how to be. How to do affiliate marketing on Yelp and how to do affiliate marketing on Quora and, you know, just all sorts of platforms that nobody else is talking about. And I just think that's kind of fascinating that you're. You're sort of finding ways to turn anything into affiliate platforms.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, you know, on one hand, people don't know how versatile it is. I get all these questions on YouTube. They're like, how do I, you know, get traffic for free? I'm like, you can get like, any, any, any way. Like, any way that you can communicate with another person through the Internet is a way that you can market products. And I, for me, I just find marketing super fun. And I love doing it. And I love, you know, I love. And it's just so. For me, you know, I got all these questions which were like, okay, well, how can I, you know, get traffic for free? And I'm like, there's a million ways, like. And I just continually get that question, like, even to this day. So it was a combination of that and also seeing that whenever I showed, like, instead of talking theory, whenever I showed, like, soup to nuts, I'm like, okay, here's, you know, here's a traffic source, here's an affiliate program, and here's how to do it. That my audience on YouTube just. Just loved it. You know, they went. They went nuts over it. So I was like, okay, how could you know? I already did, like, Facebook, Instagram, Google, Twitter, YouTube. I'm like, what else do I do?

All the obvious ones.

Yeah. I was like. I was like, guys, I showed you everything. And then I was like, okay, like, let me think outside the box. Okay? Like, how they want more, how do I give them more? So I was just like, quora Yelp, like, Google Docs. Like, I just. I just kept going, TV ads. TV ads.

Let's circle around on that one. Well, and then the other thing that I know Matt and I were nerding out about and because we love affiliate marketing, is you could freaking create a badass lifestyle business out of it. And here you are like, what, you're what, kite surfing all the time? You said helicopter flying. And it's just, what, not working too much. And you don't have any employees.

Right?

So it's.

Well, not. Not. I don't know about the. Not working so much. Yeah, I do a lot of fun stuff, but I. I am a. I'm an insane. I am an insane worker. Like, my work ethic is. Is off the chart in terms of. And. And I. I value running, you know, a lean. A really lean business. I mean, or, sorry, lean, not. I value. I'd say affiliate marketing allows you to run such a lean business because it's just, you know, you don't have to worry about all the different aspects of, you know, product fulfillment, warehousing, shipping times, like, you know, delays between, like, okay, this is supposed to arrive this time, and my cash flow. Like. Like a traditional business, you know, like, almost all of them have to play, like, you know, cash flow games where they're like, okay, we pay these people and then the result, you know, it's so. No, but, but my, I'd say my goal has actually never been to run a lean business. My goal has been to create a monster impact in the world. I mean, you know, I have a business plan and, you know, the last line is asteroid mining. And because I, that's like, that's like the level I dream at. I want to be a part of, like, moving forward in the world. I want to be. I want to cross the oceans and like, discover new lands. And affiliate marketing allows me to run like a super lean business while I'm figuring out, like, how to make a big impact in the world. And, you know, it's just, it gives you that flexibility and allows you to make a lot of money while doing it, you know. So I want it.

I'm curious about the impact thing, but take us back to what got you here too. And because I can imagine it's not always been exactly like this when starting out, right?

No, no, no.

It start.

It started off I was just like, I want money. How do I make a lot of money?

Well, what were you doing before you got into affiliate marketing?

So before I was doing affiliate marketing, I was, I was working in an ad agency for two years and also running like all these different, like, little side businesses. You know, I ran like an online tutoring company. I ran a.

I, you know, I had like an ebay like, business where I was reselling stuff. I had a software business around the tutoring space. So I ran all these little businesses for years and, you know, just, you know, I'd make some money. I'd get my PayPal account shut down. I'd like, you know, I'd make some money then I'd like to, you know, like, it kicked out of school. Then, you know, I worked in an ad agency because I realized that I really liked marketing and I like making money. And if I worked in a marketing agency, I might be able to learn more of that stuff there. And sure enough, you know, it. I was able, you know, when I got the job at this, like, local SEO shop.

You know, they had me cold calling for a little bit. But what I would do is I'd get in real early and then, you know, I would hang around the pay per click guys, because the pay per click guys, that's, that's the. I'd been doing some pay per click for my, like, side businesses during college, but I never really understood it. And once I saw the power, you know, and I just started getting good at it and eventually moved over to the pay per click department.

And you know that then my skills just accelerated because everybody else was going, treating it like a job and I was treating it like I was getting like learn and get paid to learn.

Yeah, that's the best.

Using other people's money every single day. So I like showed up to work. I'm like, cool, like, how much to lose? Yeah, I'm like, what client accounts do I get to work on today? Like what? Like objection. You know, like how. Yeah, so, so it, so that really accelerated my success. So after two years of working in a ad agency doing pay per click, I just, I just became really, I became really good at it. And that I'd say that's my, you know, I know you guys all talk about like focusing on your, your part of genius, you know, that became my, that became my thing is I'm really good at getting ads, buying ads and making roi and I just started doing that for myself as an affiliate and you know, the rest is history.

Is there like a specific type of affiliate product you promote or any specific niche? Or are you just kind of like, let's, let's just try over here, let's try over here. Let's, you know, what's your philosophy behind it? Are they like, how do you pick the products you promote?

I think it's always good to have a mixture of like, like high ticket stuff, like continuity stuff.

And just like, like I, I don't believe in recommending any product if you're not getting paid for it. Like, you know, like I go to work, I, you know, and you know, I'm abandoning time with, that I could be spending with my wife or my children. So I, you know what, I, my family comes first. So, you know, if I'm going to be spending my time marketing and recommending stuff, it's got to be for money, you know, and if, you know, and that's, you know, that's, that's the fact. So I read anything, you know, everything I recommend on my YouTube and in my courses, like the affiliate networks I recommend, I get a kickback from the, you know, the webpage tools I recommend, you know, the email service provider, the hosting company, the webpage builder, click funnels, you know, anything that I ever recommend, you know, I always make sure I get a kickback from and all these, you know, so I have a few like main sources of, you know, my affiliate marketing income. But everything else, there's like a long tail there. So I have all these affiliate programs and it all adds up. At the end of the day and you know, just.

Yeah.

So, you know, I'm curious because. Yeah, like we run into this issue is when you promote because we, I don't know how many we promote. We have like 10 core offers that we always promote, but then we have all these like random other ones, you know, that just kind of inherently get thrown into the mix. How do you track all that stuff and making sure you're getting paid and you know.

Yeah, so. Right. You know, for people who don't know, I teach people how to make money online, you know, like how to work at home and you know, then do affiliate marketing. And so there I have a few major sources of income. So it's like I have a training course at this point and that's a lead in for a lot of other stuff. So really the training course or in the is, you know, I'd say like I have to be profitable. If I'm buying ads for my training course, which thousand bucks, I have to be profitable on a cash over cash basis on that or I have to be at least break even. And then all of the other sources.

You know, I generally assume that, you know, whatever somebody buys on the front end, you can probably make about double that, you know, with other services. So like after I teach people how to start an online business, you know, people need website hosting, you know, and that pays 150 bucks per commission. And then people need a webpage builder, like click funnels. And then people need, you know, people might want to go to a seminar, have like one on one mentorship. That's, you know, that's another thing. So all these things add up to, you know, I've seen about double. So if I'm just profit, if I'm break even or profitable on the initial product sale, I just, I basically, like, that's just the one number. I look at it, then everything else is gravy. But I have a loose idea and there's predictability around that. So I just make it really easy for myself because if I had like, if I had to like Input every like 10 affiliate programs in a spreadsheet each day, I mean, I'd go crazy.

You know, that's literally what I do right now for our affiliate stuff.

Because I would go crazy too. That's kind of why I asked.

Yeah, no, I have like, I have a bookmarks folder on my computer. Right. And it's like all of the affiliate backends and once a day I'll go through and I'll open every single one in a new tab and add the number to a spreadsheet. So I know which affiliate programs are working, how much like we make on a daily basis across all. It's, it's a nightmare, but it keeps us on track.

Well, so I'll ask you. Is he going crazy?

He's not actually. That's a sweet place. That's why he's doing it.

I nerd out on that stuff.

Yeah.

But we are trying to make it easy and not manual. That's, that's the key. Because I know with affiliate, you know, you just have all these logins all over the web, you know, and if you're a lot of folks, you could be sitting on a chunk of change over there and with one account maybe because you didn't input your PayPal email or send in your W9 or whatever it might be. Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah. All that's. Yeah, I do. There's so many little points and I have, I have two. I outsource a lot of dev work. I've been, you know, I have two dev agencies and at this point, I mean there's so. You're right. There's so many things. It's so unpredictable into things that can break. You know, it's like you forgot to put the credit card down on your SSL certificate or like, you know, you.

Know, dumb little things can like totally. Yeah.

We lost our entire first blog that used to like the very first entry that we ever did into online marketing. We lost it because we forgot to renew the domain name.

That's right.

That's right. There's. Yeah, so there's all these little things. They add up. So I, Yeah, so yeah, it's crazy. But yeah, I always, I generally like to keep things simple with you know, one product as the, you know, the main product. I'm marketing and if I'm, if I'm break even or profitable on that, then you know, the other stuff I sell is, is kind of gravy because the fact of the matter is people need, you know, you know, every, any, any problem that you're helping solve. You know, because I generally spe affiliate marketers are solving a problem. There's a lot of things around that like weight loss. It doesn't just stop with like getting an anti eating pill. It's like people will need, they're going to need new clothes, they're going to need to join a gym, they might need to like meal prep programs like nutrisystem. You know, there's all, there's a lot of stuff in Each niche.

So do you, what's your model look like? Is it like you have an entry point where you're getting them on a list or you're trying to start the journey, then you essentially build the journey after that through promotions and giving them everything else they need.

Yeah, exactly. So my journey starts. Nowadays my journey starts with my. Well now we have two front end programs. But it either starts with my book.

Which is 40 bucks or.

My thousand dollar training course. Most people find out about me because, you know, they register for my webinar which tells people about affiliate marketing and also my thousand dollar training course. And you know, if people buy my thousand dollar training course, first off, by the way we updated it, we used people on Tony Robbins team to redo to figure out the curriculum structure.

They're like the best in the business at the architecting of.

You guys are down in San Diego. I'm sure you guys know a lot of Tony people.

Oh yeah.

So you know, the thousand dollar course, obviously I'm trying to make money on that. But then like for instance, if they don't buy my thousand dollar course, I still have their email address and their phone number. So I think maybe they're interested in like maybe drop shipping or maybe it's like cryptocurrency or maybe it's like you know, selling on Amazon and maybe it's consulting, maybe it's starting a local marketing agency. So every week I kind of showcase another and I've actually like we work with the sequencing. Like are they more interested in starting a drop shipping business or consulting business like my market? So we'll kind of like move around like which promotion we do first and we just show them like every training product.

In the different online entrepreneurship spaces. So that's an additional source of income. Right. And that, that makes a, you know, that makes a good amount of money. And then, you know, so we do. And then when people purchase my training program, you know, I obviously I'm an affiliate for the affiliate networks. You know, I'm an affiliate for webpage building tools like click funnels. You know, they pay me a lot of money. I'm an affiliate for hosting companies.

So you know it all. I'm an affiliate for seminar companies like Tony Robbins. So that's, that's kind of the way I think about it is. And I also think it's just servicing the audience the best because it doesn't just stop with like, you know, you took a training course, like the world's better, like maybe there, maybe you have to make improvements in your mindset, maybe you have, like, trauma you haven't dealt with before. Maybe you need, like, you know, a webpage built. So it just goes on. And I think the goal is always to add to service the audience and add the most value to your audience, regardless of whether you personally offer.

A solution to that.

Yeah, I think it's interesting with affiliate marketing, and this is something that on our podcast, we've tried to do a lot to sort of get over this hurdle and people's. Other people's minds is that I feel like with affiliate marketing, there's a little bit of a stigma. It's almost sort of divisive. Some people don't see it as a legitimate business. And I think with Joe and I, we actually struggle with that for a few years of like, okay, most of our money is coming from affiliate marketing. And we'd hear people say, that's not a real business. You need to, you know, you need this other stuff if you're going to be a real business. And it was something we struggled with. While our affiliate marketing revenue is growing, we're like, we're making more and more money month over month, but people are telling us this isn't a legitimate business. But it was like a mental barrier that we had to get over with, feeling like we are offering a valuable service that is needed, that. That helps businesses, that helps consumers, it helps everybody along the line. But there was, like, that weird mental thing we had going on of feeling illegitimate. And I'm curious about your thoughts on that.

Dude, I'm interested on, like, your thoughts on that, too. No, I totally. I totally know what you're saying, because feels. And Tony Robbins kind of talks. Sorry if I go on. Tons of Tony Robbins talks about. This is kind of like where you feel like it's like imposter syndrome, right? Like, and once you go above your comfort level, it starts feeling funny. And I remember when I was like, you know, in my early 20s, and, you know, my income went from, like, you know, I was making 6,000amonth at my job.

And then, you know, it zoomed up to, like, $50,000 a month, you know, and I'm like, 23 or 24. And it's almost like you're like, this. Something. This isn't right. Like, I shouldn't be making this much money.

It feels like you broke the system or something. You're like, whoa, yeah, yeah.

And then. Then, you know, I. I got, you know, like, it's imposter syndrome. And I. It definitely felt a little bit. I Started making over hundreds of thousands of dollars a month when I was selling weight loss products like garcinia cambogia. And I know a lot of people in the affiliate marketing industry have this self hate, and I definitely had that too.

What do you mean by that? Literally.

I'm making a lot of money, but is what I'm doing wrong? And like, everybody, like all these other affiliates are like, you know, they almost like, they're like, we're like making out like criminals. But it's. I was like, am I doing something bad or am I not? Like, I don't know because I'm making so much money, like, I must be doing something bad. And I thought about it for a while and. But eventually I came to the conclusion that a lot of, you know, garcinia cambogia had some sort of bad reputation. But actually it. I looked into all these products myself and I was like, okay, I'm actually gonna like, buy and like, look into these products and like, use them and like, actually see what I'm selling, because I had no clue. But I could sell them, right? And I tried out the weight loss products and I looked into how they worked and like the chemicals and all that stuff. I. And garcinia cambogia is an appetite suppressant. And what it was commonly paired with what I was. Because I was selling, like, I'd sell garcinia cambogia, then it would immediately upsell to a. To kind of like a liver flushing thing. So it suppresses your appetite and it clean. Cleanses, you know, cleanses your intestines out. It makes you like, you poop out. Like you've never detox. Yeah, it's a detox thing. And I'd never done detox. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this detox stuff is gnarly. Like, I didn't realize I had all this stuff locked in my intestines. And when I actually did that, I realized that I was. I was the alternative to all of the McDonald's advertising and the Burger King advertising. And that what I was doing is actually really like, the problem was there for a reason. And I realized I. It's because the fast food companies advertise everywhere and people need to lose weight. And this is a solution. While some people may not think it's the proper solution, you know, you know, like, people would say, you don't need pills. You need, like exercise and, you know, healthy diet, you know, but a lot of people don't, you know, it. That's very difficult for them to find the Time to do or it's not.

Their lifestyle or discipline or whatever it is.

Yeah, they go barbecue, you know, they eat a rack of Rick, you know, they're not going to go on the frickin, you know, vegetable diet. So I realized that a lot of these industries have been pushed to the margins. You know, a lot of the industries that are in affiliate marketing have been pushed to the margins, but they have a genuine way of helping people out. And.

I realized what I was doing was not bad and I was just helping kind of marginalized industries for whatever political reasons get, you know, get their message out there and help people. And that was a huge change for me.

Yeah, I think, I think one of the things that, that sort of helped us was, you know, we were talking to one of our buddies, Josh Bartlett, he was telling us, he was comparing us to like the Madison Avenue admin, right? Like the, like the Ogilvies of the world, saying, look, Ogilvy, he didn't make the products he sold and he wasn't the consumer of the products. He was a guy that just helped make them sell better. He's like, you guys are just doing that. Do you consider Ogilvies, you know, the Madison Avenue admin, do you consider them a legit business? Of course you do. How are you guys any different? And that was sort of one of the reframings that I think really helped us a lot.

And it was another piece was. It was like that. And then we're like, okay, let's make our, you know, our mindset was just like, okay, it's not legitimate. So we built a structure around it that, that felt more legitimate, I guess. Like we kind of connected all the pieces, like from the podcast to our email list to our Facebook group and all these other buckets of audiences. We just kind of created this like, I don't know, this ecosystem that we can then be a legitimate in our mind, you know, like we could show like, okay, we're helping a shit ton of people by pairing them up with what they need at the right point. And yeah, paired up with that, we're like, oh, okay. And ever since then, revenue has gone, more work has gone down for us. So it's like, it's weird how these mental blocks can really, can really fuck you up, you know, and off. Really? Yeah.

And another, another way to make that maybe help the audience understand this is, you know, nerd Wallet, you know, is a good example of this. You know, they just, they, they review what the best credit cards are and that, you know, Expedia.com Orbitz, you know, cheap, any, any flight booking thing, you know, it, price lines. Those are all affiliate companies. And you know, the fact of the matter is most companies don't even, you know, sell stuff anymore. Like Uber, Uber. Uber is just, it's basically like their own affiliate network for like people who like have a car and free time.

Yeah.

And want money and people who like don't want to drive and have money. And it's just like it's, it's all arbitrage. Uber doesn't own cars. You know, Hotels.com, another hundred million dollar plus affiliate company, doesn't own any hotels, but it's the biggest hotel company. So it's, you know, the Internet revolution. The connections that, you know, the Internet can create are still just, it's in its infancy still and we just need to connect everything and that's, that's what we're doing. It's.

Yeah, it's super cool. And the way you described it was actually just very helpful because yeah, when you start looking at the business models, a lot of those companies you're just like, yeah, they just built a container, this system and they had these partnerships with like Hotels.com, it's just with a bunch of hotels or groups of hotels and they're just, they have the eyeballs hotels.com does solving that need and they're just pairing it up with a solution, aggregating them in a simple way to. And that's all you're doing. You're building a journey, a nice resource and boom. Affiliate marketing, like that is a money business right there. Yeah, yeah. I love it, man. So with you how like I know you're all over YouTube like crazy and this is one of the rabbit holes that we wanted to go down because I feel is that, is that your prominent channel like YouTube or Discovery Channel?

At least YouTube is, I'd say yes, but in a very roundabout way.

So. Oh, you guys just. Oh, you guys pros for a second. So the way YouTube works for me is essentially I'm teaching people to be affiliate mark to be affiliate marketers and I'm training them how to be or practice affiliate marketing or do it using, promoting my products and then my audience about, you know, I've estimated about 5% of my audience whenever I release videos on how to do affiliate marketing, they actually sign up and they actually do it. And then the average affiliate sends about 88 clicks. You know, I've done all the math, right. I like this stuff. And then, you know, so we have 16,000 affiliates like last month in June. So and each affiliate sent on average 88 clicks. And then, and then from that, you know, we have like 1.5 million in traffic. And then the conversion rates are like pretty low. But basically it all evens out to hundreds. I forget, but hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of sales of my training program. So YouTube is generating me affiliates which are generating me traffic, which are using the ways I teach them how to do marketing, get traffic and then I get customers. So I'm not. Whereas most people on YouTube, what they're doing is they're teaching people, you know something, they're like, let me teach you about like closing sales over the telephone. And then they'll be like, okay, that's your 10 minutes. Like if you want to learn more, pay me a thousand bucks, you know. And most people are like 10 minute blurbs of how they're smart and like then buy my program. Whereas I'm going about it a little more roundabout way.

Yeah, so YouTube's kind of like a real efficient system for rounding up and training affiliates to be better at promoting your stuff.

Exactly.

That's pretty genius. And you've grown it.

And we've paid out, and we've paid out over $5 million at this point to two affiliates of ours. So you know what's cool is that my audience gets to share in that money too. And you know, I'll get like, like, you know, I get so much hate on YouTube, but I also get like really bright points. You gotta have thick skin. I mean the things everybody gets hate on YouTube.

Come on, it's YouTube.

Yeah, I have like, I have like dudes that are like devoted to like making videos. Just about like how much of a scumbag they think I am. Like, call them out right now.

Like literal channels to vote. But then you get like a guy in Kenya who likes, you know, like some 16 year old kid or in Kenya who's like, dude, I just made $500 from your advice. Like I've never made any money online. This is the amount of money somebody in my country makes in a year. You've changed my life for the better forever. I can't explain to you how much this is means to me. And it's just like, whoa. Like I just, and I look up like, what is the average salary in Kenya? And I'm like, oh my God. Like, you know, they make 500 a year. Like, yeah, like, man, it's just, you know, like this guy's life, you know, he's 16 you know, I could just totally see it, you know, and so that stuff really, you know, that stuff keeps me going.

That's part of that impact side. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So when it comes to like actually doing affiliate market, let's say like diet pills and that kind of stuff, what sort of traffic sources would you use to drive into that?

Sure. So my two biggest traffic sources were Facebook and Outbrain, like native ads. And both of those sources I got up to about $40,000 daily revenue, you know, at like certain points. Right. It's like up, down. But I'd say, yeah, I was heavy on Facebook. Yeah, Facebook and native ads were, I'd say, where I really exploded on those.

Are you still running those, those kind of things? Because it almost sounds like you're talking in past tense. Is that stuff you're not doing anymore or you still are?

So I'm, I'm mainly focused on my training course and my training course we made, you know, we've been doing YouTube ad. Because people, it's. YouTube is much more like closer to like the education niche.

Right.

And you know, people go to YouTube to learn and then, you know, they get my ad which is like, hey, you know, you want to learn about affiliate marketing? You know, like, watch my webinar, you know, so YouTube is like really good for education. And then I'm doing TV ads, obviously. Just start, just started that like, you know, this year. So.

But I think each, you know, different products sell better different places. Facebook, you know, some of these traffic sources, you can sell anything. But yeah, you just gotta experiment.

Yeah.

The thing with what Outbrain, you have to be super broad. Right. Because you're just. It can't be like a YouTube or Facebook ad where you're super dialed in on targeting. That's the thing to know for people listening.

Yeah, we've tested like Outbrain and Taboola and stuff like that to Internet marketing related offers and stuff like that. And it always just bombs. But we've never tried like health offers, which I think has more of a mass appeal, which would probably make more sense on a place like Outbrain.

For sure. On YouTube side of things, I know like one of the. You've grown a crazy amount of subscribers on there. What would your strategy be to. Because I know you do ads a lot on there. Is it primarily paid traffic or are you doing kind of organic stuff too? How do you grow that kind of following?

So, yeah, growing the following. So it started, it started with. It's crazy. It's actually really crazy. So.

2000. This brings, this goes way back. I started my channel in 2009 and I was in college. I'd taken a semester off, gone to Thailand, of course. And I brought along this book. I brought along these spiritual books and also this business, you know, a couple business books and. Or I think the one business book was called the Four Hour Work Week. And I read it in Thailand and like, the dude, it starts off and the guy's like, sitting on a beach in Thailand. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm sitting on a beach. And I'm like, this is crazy. Like it's a sign. And I read the book, but I was super enamored. I said, wow, it makes a lot more sense to be an entrepreneur than to like, be paid an hourly wage or like a monthly salary. And I, you know, like, that made a lot of sense to me, is that if you're doing something where you're being paid for your time.

You'Re always gonna have a glass ceiling. And that just resonated with me. So right after I read the book, I said, I'm gonna figure out, like, I'm gonna go in a scalable business. And I thought to myself, what could I do? And I said, okay, I'm gonna teach people about, like, backpacking because I love backpacking. Like, that was my thing. Just, just like low budget hostels, you know, like hostile sex, like, you know, all the fun, you know, all that stuff. And I started teaching people about that. I started. I just used my camera phone and I started a YouTube channel. Never took off. I only did like 5 videos before I was like, oh, like, you know, I only got 30 views, you know. You know, I'm just gonna shut this down, you know, and. But what happened is over time, I kept using YouTube. I. As I was building my ad agents, you know, I got, I got asked to do some videos for another marketing agency in la. They said, hey, we're looking for somebody that's been on camera, like, oh, John, don't you have a YouTube channel? You know, or you said something about YouTube. And I was like, oh, yeah, like, I'll do a video, I'll teach people about. And then I started putting up some videos of my own. When I started my own agency, I trained my employees by putting up YouTube videos, like, of what I did so that they could see. But I accidentally made some of those public. And when I, When I started my. When I got out of what I'd say, like strict affiliate marketing and I started building my own personal brand in 2017.

I checked in on my YouTube channel, and it had like 10,000 subscribers from these old PPC videos I put up in, like, 2011 or something. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, this is crazy. I had no idea. And that just kind of started, you know, that. That. That started this whole journey. I did YouTube ads and that brought me some subscribers just because people saw my face everywhere. And then I started, like, actually in 2019, in January 1, 2019, I actually made my New Year's resolution was I'm actually going to try to focus on YouTube a little bit more and I'm going to put up a video a day, because that's what Casey Neistat said. He said, upload up. Just keep uploading. Those were the three things he said, Just keep uploading. So I said, I'm gonna do a video a day. And I'd say it just kind of started through a process of trial and error. It started taking off.

Well, that's actually a good thing. It's. Yeah, keep uploading. Because you never know it's gonna hit. What's gonna resonate. I mean, there's keywords, there's. If you have ads, then you're just like, kind of just. All right, tossing them to the channel and see what resonates.

Yeah. And you can always batch record, too, right? Like, you could record like seven videos in one day and then just trickle them out throughout the week.

For sure.

I do. I. Yeah, I used to do. For the first, like, year, I did 20 videos a day, and then I scheduled those out over the month. What I do now is I do, like, I'll take like an afternoon each week and I'll shoot five videos and. Yeah, that's same process.

Yeah. Oh, man. So on. On YouTube, if I'm just trying to think. So that's. That's kind of the education hub that's generating the affiliates. I could see that being, like, a crucial piece of the system that just. You want to keep feeding that system because it's just feeding you new people, new customers, new affiliates. It's.

Yeah, well, it generates the sales to the course. And the course, once they're in the course, that, you know, they need click funnels, they need hosting, they need an autoresponder, all those things you're an affiliate of. So that's all the back end beyond the course. So.

Right, let's talk about.

Do you have more on YouTube?

No, I'm good.

I want to talk about the TV stuff, because that was something that, before we hit record, we were Just like, like, I don't know anybody who's running TV ads. Like, period. Like, where does somebody even go if they wanted to run ads on tv?

Sure. So you, you would, you'd have to talk to a DRTV Direct response TV media buying agency. There are three. And you know, they're, they're Habas Edge Canela, and that's who I work with. And then there's River Direct. And you basically, you basically call up one of these companies and TV. TV CPMs are actually lower than Facebook. So it's way cheaper to buy TV ads. Than Facebook. So I'll buy, like, I'll be on NBC, you know, at like midnight in Idaho.

75 bucks, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just 30 minute, 30 minute spot, you know, like you can get a lot of deals and a lot of eyeballs on TV for very, very cheap. But people just, you know, again.

Whenever there was like this quote where it's like when everybody, when it's in the news, like, don't buy, like when the company is in the news, like, don't buy the stock or something like that, when everybody's talking about it, like, run away, right? And that quote always resonated home with me. It's kind of like, oh, you missed the boat if it's like there's a gold rush in San Francisco. It's like, oh, you missed the boat if it's on the front page, the newspaper. So, you know, that quote resonate with me. And I always thought, you know, I saw these people, Facebook ads, Facebook ads. Facebook ads. Facebook ads. And I kind of thought to myself, I was like, like, this is the front page. It's the front page headline of the news. Like for marketers, it's like Facebook ads. So I was like, I remember thinking to myself, like, okay, maybe it's time to, like, think about something else. And I don't know, like, I have some friends who had done TV ads in the past as well. So my mentor, who's also out in San Diego, Kelly Felix, we know Kelly, he did a number of TV ads. And then I have my friends, the Morrisons, Anthony and Adrian, they did TV ads. So it was kind of like something that I'd like, heard about, but, like, nobody was talking about it. So I was like, okay, like, there's a traffic source that works. Nobody's running on it. And like, I don't know, for a while, like, just, you know, that kind of sat in the back of my head and I don't know, just a series of events led me to be like, okay, I'm gonna try this out. Like, I'm gonna try to get on TV and see if I can get an roi.

And part of it is also just I always like to push to like, broader and broader traffic sources. For me, if I get an angle or an ad that works, I say, okay, how can I, you know, how can I expand to a greater audience? Like, if I'm selling weight loss, I'm like, okay, it works on this small audience, but, like, there's a lot of people who want to lose weight or like, you know, for you guys, you know, you guys are maybe, you know, you guys are talking about a lot of specific stuff, but you're also like, motivating people and helping people maybe learn how to start a business. And it's like, there's a lot of people who want to be motivated. So I always look for, like, what's the bigger picture thing here and how can I tap into it? And that's always been kind of like a challenge for me in marketing is how do I get outside the audience? And so I thought, okay, TVs like a challenge, and I love marketing, so, like, I'll try this out. Like, I know, I know it works, that there's no competition. Yeah, why can't I make it work?

You know, are you using like, like specific unique URLs so, you know, like this person came from that ad, or are they all kind of driving to a, like a generic URL?

Good question. So, so we have a phone number and a webpage associated with each ad. Now, the webpage, it stays consistent. Workathomesecrets.com so we can't track the individual station there. I mean, we could try to back end into it based on like, you know, like, okay, you know, timing and location geography. But the real way we track is through the phone numbers. So half of, about half of the sales come in through the phone through people calling into our IVR system.

Them.

So I'm able to say, okay, we got, you know, 20 orders on, you know, on a. On Fox FX. You know, we aired on FX at 4:00am you know, 20 orders on FX. And then I know if we got 20 orders on FX, I know we'll probably expect about 20 orders on the web. So I just have my own Excel spreadsheets where I have like makeshift calculations of attributing all of the web sales to the particular station.

Gotcha. Now, this might be kind of a newbie question, but what's an IVR system? I'm not sure.

Familiar with that. IVR is one of those, like, phones. It's like when you call at&t& you're like, you know, they're like, press one for, like, you know, customer service. Press two for sale. Press three for technical support. So, you know, so for marketing products, you know, an IVR system would be like, hey, it's John Crestani. Thanks for calling. You know, I'm really excited for you calling in about, you know, your interest about, you know, working at home. You know, it's. Times are tough, but, you know, I'm going to connect you with, you know, with an agent, you know, with an automated agent that'll take your order and, you know, then it'll be like, okay, you know, so then they, you know.

Yeah, you greet them, and then it kind of sends them down the path.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, okay, please enter in your credit card information. You know, press one if this is a Visa. Press two if you.

So it.

Yeah, that's. That's an ivr.

Gotcha. So it never actually ends up at, like, a call center or anything like that.

Yeah, that's. That's cool. What. So the model here. So I guess there's two models. Your model and then there's the TV model, because you're taking. Was it like remnant space? Is that just where other ads are?

Yeah. Late night, like midnight to 8, you know, 7:00am yeah.

Right. And then your model. So what's your approach there? I think you mentioned you're selling a book, right. As part of that ad there. And then that's just a beginning of your funnel.

Yeah. So my infomercial is basically me and, like, a fancy house, and there's, like, Lamborghinis and a helicopter and all this, you know, and like the. And. And this. This TV host comes over and she interviewed, and she's. She's good looking. Helps. Yeah. And, you know, she comes in and she says, hey, you know, I. We're.

We're.

You know, today I'm going to be interviewing, you know, Internet millionaire John Crestani about, you know, his new book, Work at Home Secrets. And she. She says, john, how'd you come up with the title? You know? And she interviews me about. About my book, and she says, why'd you call it Work at Home Secrets? Like, how'd you get your start? Like, how easy is it for people? You know, does this require technical skills? Like, you know, what are the benefits of working at home? You know, and so she just asked me all these questions, and I talk about the Book and, you know, that. You know, stuff like that.

So.

And, you know, we hope to make sales.

That's. I mean, I'm just thinking, like, the timing with everyone at home out of work or trying to create something new, like, you're probably crushing it right now. Like, something is. Because this is the thing. It's like, it seems like trends and, you know, marketing or business. It's like, no, we're at like the beginning. Like, this is like the restart stage for a lot of folks. Or build the foundation.

Yeah. And we. You know what's funny is I got real lucky on this one because I started putting together. We just started, like, really just like hand over fist, like, you know, blowing up. I'd say about a month ago, but. Or, you know, actually, like, sorry, like two weeks ago because. Because we. There's. It's been a long process of shipping fulfillment. Like, I've had to test a ton of different infomercials, but the concept for it came together in August of last year. So I got real lucky with the timing. Yeah, you did. That's a horrib to say it.

I mean, hey, you did, though, in terms of the demand. You did. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. So. So, yeah, I mean, the timing helps out a ton. I mean, and yes, it is. It is working very well. But, you know, it's. It's. It's not something I. I didn't like coronavirus didn't. It wasn't. That coronavirus happened and then I was like, oh, I'm gonna make a work at home infomercial. It just. I had already been working on that. The title of my book was Already Work at Home Secrets. So all. It's taken me over a year to figure out how to get this campaign profitable.

Yeah, it's taken me over a year for this one. So it's been a really long time in the making, and it's been really difficult and a lot of money wasted and a lot of emotions.

But it's been a lot of fun because it's a challenge. And I love. I love testing myself because I love marketing.

Yeah. Well, I really think what it is, is it's right now in the current environment, there's so many people that are kind of opening their eyes to things that people like us have known for years now. Right. They're opening their eyes to like, oh, man, there's a different way. I don't have to go into an office to actually get work done. There are ways to make money online. There are alternatives to, like, the traditional lifestyle. And People are starting to realize this because of the situation they've been forced into. And it's not like, like any of us went, ooh, we're gonna capitalize on this. No, it's the shit we've been doing for the last, well, for us, the last 13 years, you know.

Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Very cool.

Now I'm curious, with the TV ads, is there some sort of thinking or philosophy behind like, what networks you put them on? Like, I know that the timing of it may be a little up in the air due to the remnant nature, like the remnant ad space. But like how do you decide what networks to actually put them on so that they'll perform?

We're still testing, but basically, you know, we do, we do real well on like, like Travel Channel, for instance. Right.

I'll give you guys one just in case anybody's listening. And like, it's like, I want to get in, you know, CPMs are cheaper there, but yeah, I'd say so. A few factors go into it. Such as, like, like CMT and BET perform horribly, right? You know, just the customer quality. They won't go on to any of the things I affiliate market for they want. You know, they might get the book, but you know, like country music television, like, you know, and then like bet, it's just you get a lot of really poor people on those stations. So you have to consider your market.

You know, because we're looking, you know, we have like higher priced like affiliate programs that I'm trying to get people into. And you know, if we're talking to broke people, you know, then I don't get any of the affiliate commissions. So I have to measure that stuff out. So I want to be where there's some money. And then the other thing is like you look at what programs lead in to.

To your infomercial because again, it's kind of like this, you know, people don't like tune in for an infomercial. It's like they're coming from something else.

Right?

And generally like if they're coming from, you know, if somebody's coming from like five minute, like short animated, you know, cartoons, like they're probably not going to have the attention span for a 30 minute long like sales pitch essentially. Whereas if the lead in is, is like a two hour rerun of John Wayne films, you know, on, you know, fx, well somebody's, you know, they, they have attention span, they've been watching a two hour long thing, you know, they've been watching this probably all night, you know, so that you know, they've been watching Ronald Reagan films or, you know, cowboy films all night. So. So a 30 minute, you know, little infomercial is not going to be a, you know, they're not going to lose focus. They'll be, you know, they have the focus there. So those are like some of the considerations that factor in. There's a lot. There's a lot though, man. I mean it's. But I'd say that's generally the good thing, like looking at the lead ins, what are people coming from is a really good barometer.

Yeah, it's like any other ad platform. Right. You gotta test and what works for one market's not gonna work for a different market.

Well, YouTube ads, I would assume it's very similar too. They're searching out something spec. But it's like you don't want to totally throw up something that's just not relevant or. Yeah, it's just like always think of the lead in. I think that's a super good lesson.

And that's why we advertise on YouTube. We advertise on a lot of other gurus channels. So if so or motivational channels work great for us. So, you know, it's obvious if people are watching like a video about Tony Robbins and he's like, you know what, like you can live your dreams, like map out your dreams. Like, let's dream map exercise. And then it's like you get an ad from John Crestani and it's like, like, hey, would you like to be making 10,000amonth with like very little effort? It's like Tony's way too much work.

For me right now.

I manifested him. So, you know, the conversion rates are going to be really high. So. But you know, motivation works very well because there's a lot of these motivational channels which are like, you know, just be like two hours of motivational, like workout music and it's like, like, you know, like, you know, you can do anything you dream of, you can be anything you want. And then it's like, hey, would you like a lot of money? You know, it's like my ad and you know, that works well. So. Yes, it feels congruent.

Yeah.

And sort of serendipitous.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. I had to give you some background sound there for the motivational.

Dude. This has been interesting and but yeah, it seems like video is really like the crux of like the core of what you do to show. Yeah. The lifestyle, the business model, catch people where they're at. And it seems like I haven't seen the commercial or anything, but you have a, you know, a fun demeter. You make it exciting. It's not like there's a boring, crotchety old business model. It's like, no, from my home, I'm having a bitch in life. I'm flying helicopters and kite surfing, whatever, you know, and, but you can do it too, you know, and yeah, I think that's. Right now a lot of folks are just reaching for the reset button in like a foundational income and I think you're doing a good thing there, man.

So I, yeah, it's, it, it's, it's cool and it's fun and it, and frankly it, you know, it, it, it helps people and this is just a natural. It's just where the world's going anyways, you know, it's like, you know, it. Yeah, so it's fun.

Jump on it. Well, let's, let's wrap it up. But tell us about the, the work at home offer that you have there. Just give us a little like 30 second spiel about it and.

Oh, my book.

Yeah, oh, the book.

My book is just like kind of like a basic intro to affiliate marketing. It's kind of like, you know, here's we go over, it's called Work at Home. Like the full title is Work at Home. Scams and Secrets or Secrets and Scams. So, you know, I talk a little bit about like, because a lot of people get scammed and I talk about that, you know, when they're just, when somebody just first Googles like how to make money online. Like, like, you know, the really broad market offers are generally like a little sketchy. So you know, I talk a little bit about that. I'm like, here's what to avoid. And then I'm like, here's the ways to make money online. You know, I'm like, you know, I talk about the drop shipping and the Amazon and the consulting and like task and freelancing and all this stuff. But then I'm like, and here's what I believe is the best way to make money online. And it's, you know, and then I go into affiliate marketing and I do just, I give the basics of kind of a few ways to do it, like Google, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and yeah, I mean it's just, it's very, it's very basic. But for a lot of people, like, basic is completely revolutionary.

Yeah. So, so for anybody listening to this episode, where, where do you think the best place to go for them if, let's say They're a little beyond basic. Where. Where would you like people to go check out more of your stuff?

Check me out on YouTube, you know, Google my name or YouTube my name, John Crestani. And you'll find just a ton of videos, you know, again, on YouTube. Stuff's fair. You know, I do weekly, you know, ask me anything sessions every Monday. I'll do that later this afternoon. Sweet. Yeah, I'd say go. I'd say go to YouTube and check me out there.

Sweet. I'll link it up in the show notes. Man. It's been fun, man. Hey, what's a. I guess what's a book that you find yourself going to? You mentioned four hour work week, but what's one that you like?

The Alchemist. I know you like the Alchemist.

That's a good one.

You know what? I'll. Here, I'm gonna grab the book. Can you give me a second?

Go for it, man.

Yeah.

Put some waiting music on.

Matt's been producing music lately, so we gotta, like. There's like some filler music we could fill in here. Matt. Right. We're just probably won't. No, we won't. We're too lazy for that. Jacob, our editor, you don't need to do that.

Well, eventually we're gonna remake our hustled flowchart intro with a little more polished sound to it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shh. I wasn't supposed to get out.

I'm sorry. I'm finding some. I'm grabbing, like, a couple books.

All right, perfect.

We're just filling time here with bullshit.

Okay? We don't edit at all. We're too lazy for that.

What does Joe Rogan do when people go to the bathroom? I guess him and Jamie just talk.

Right? Yeah, that or sometimes he'll even go to the bathroom, so.

Yeah, that's true. And just leave that air.

Exactly. Well, no, no, no. I think the hosting.

Is it okay if I go if I talk about a couple books here?

Let's go for it. As he walks back with a stack as big as his head.

Yeah, dude. Okay, so if people. I love reading. Yeah. So if people want, like, one book, which. I would recommend this book, Rainbow's End, because you guys are in San Diego and Vernor Vinge is based in San Diego. The setting is UC is one of those schools in Torrey Pines. Like UCSD or something.

Ucsd, yeah, he talked.

It's a. It's a sci fi book. And it talks about all these future. I mean, like, we don't have to come up with the. The what is the next big thing? Because, like, authors have already figured it out. And he talks about affiliate marketing. What the. I believe affiliate marketing is the business model that takes over all E commerce. And he kind of envisions that in this book he talks about, like, Just in Time training and like all these other, like, crowd. Not crowdsourcing. It's like, yeah, like crowdsourcing type. Like just in time crowdsourcing type stuff. It's really, really revolutionary, the concepts he thinks of in this book. And I think it's. Can it help inspire a future future, you know, entrepreneurs or budding entrepreneurs to create the future? I think it's really cool.

That's right up our house.

Another. Another really to go on a business book, I'd say 0 to 1. Okay. 0 to 1 by Peter Thiel. Another big picture, you know, talking about the difference between incremental change and actually, like doing something completely new. And that's my goal. Right. That's like why I said, like asteroid mining, you know, but to do astro mind, you have to have like a couple billion dollars before you, like, big goals.

Yeah.

So 0 to 1, I think, is a good book. I had a Paulo Coelho book, Warrior of Light.

And then I'm just gonna shout out my two favorite authors, which is. One is Cormac McCarthy, who did no country for Old Men. He wrote the book. He writes these kind of.

He's just an amazing author that goes into people's psychology. It's not just like, you know, oh, John met Mary, Mary. You know, they fell in love, they went to the. He goes into like, just, you know, people with, you know, for instance, like, you know, just like weird subcultures and like, you know, just all. He goes really deep into people's lives in a way that I think really benefits marketers. Because to be a marketer, you have to understand people at a very real level. Not, you know, I hate all these charts of, like, demographics and like all this, like, interest. It's like, talk to people, you want to understand people. You want to market things to people, you want to sell stuff to people. Talk to the people, understand them, understand their days, understand their stuff. And he goes so deep in. In a very human level. I like blood meridian. That's frickin. It's just. It's. There's a lot of death. Like, there's scalp. They're scalping Indians. Like, and he goes into, like, why people were scalping Indians. Like, you know, it's like the story of this Texas boy at like, 15 when it like and at the years 18, 20. And you know, we pass. And also like just all the judgment we pass on different groups of people, like just learning to understand. I'm not saying like, go scalp Indians, but the way he writes about it is it's very interesting and like thought provoking. And then my favorite author by far is this guy called Neal Stephenson. And I'm reading this absolute killer of a book called Ream. It's kind of like, read me, but Ream D. It's just the D and the M are mixed around and it's just so filled with action. I mean it's a thousand. I'm 600 pages in. But it's got like, like Russian mafia. You've got like Chinese computer hackers, you've got like American, you know, billionaire game developers. You've got like. It's just such a. You've got Islamic terrorists and like. Then you've got like British MI6 agents. And it's just this insane mixture of craziness.

So is that going to tell us what's going to happen in the world?

Basically, those are. Yeah, those are the main things. Chinese hackers, Russian mafia, like US billionaires. And it's. And it's so fun. But they really get down to like such. He does so much research into his characters. Like, I've learned so much about sambo, which is the Russian martial art that's based off of Jiu jitsu. It's like, it's basically like jiu jitsu with gunplay.

I've never even heard gunplay.

Yeah, it's like Jiu jitsu is like nice on like tv, but like this is like, like real world stuff and they go into the psychology of how it all works. And like the Russians, they have. They have these like pistol holders that like, instead of like bringing it, they laugh at cowboys like the characters do because they say cowboys pull their gun out and then they shoot it. And like the Russians, they just. They push their gun through their holster and it's like way fat. I don't know, it's. I've learned so much about specific groups of people.

That I. And I think that's marketing. I think marketing is getting to know people on a personal level and those, you know, that's why I like this author because it goes into people at a personal level and I encourage people to read all over the place if, if you want to be successful. It's been. And listen to interviews. You know, those are my two things. And I'm. I'm Such a fan of both.

Oh, cool.

Couldn't agree more. Now, were those fiction books those last couple that you mentioned, or are they nonfiction?

Those last couple I mentioned were fiction books. Yeah.

Very cool. These are like the best recommendations ever. I think, like, the widest. Obviously you started with four hour workweek that most people have read or heard about at least. But then you have all these like, totally out there sci fi fiction. But again, yeah, I gotta dig in. There's more fiction, man. Because you're right. It's like an education. But through this kind of world that's, you know, it's probably happening. There's evidence of it all over the place. But a lot of it becomes reality eventually.

Well, yeah, and I don't know about you guys, but I get kind of sick of reading business books. You can only say the same shit so many times in so many different ways.

Learn from the old guys, you know, the relics out there that created this stuff. Exactly. All right, John, well, I think this has been a great time, man. Thanks a lot.

I'm sorry I tired you guys out.

No, it's a lot to think about. But that's a good thing. That's our good.

You fired us up. And once all this Covid shit sort of calms down a little bit, we should meet up for a beer or something sometime.

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I go down. I was down in San Diego like a couple weeks ago, surfing with my buddy. So I was in Carlsbad. Yeah, I'd love. I'd love to hang out. I'll let you guys know next time I'm coming down there. And you guys, likewise. Let me know if you're ever headed up here and we'll go out and get a burger, some craft beers, stuff like that.

Sounds great, man.

So we.

Thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you dug it. I know Joe and I dug it. I actually kicked Joe out of the room. He's not here right now. Because I wanted to tell you about a tool that I really, really dig. We use it in our business. We recommend it all the time. It's called Easy Webinar. And it's a tool that lets you do live webinars, automated webinars, hybrid webinars, and, you know, pretty much any other kind of webinar if there are other kinds of webinars. But anyway, this tool is kind of like your all in one, do it all tool for anything webinar related. It's Easy Webinar. It's put out by a dude named Casey Zman. He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's a killer episode. He's a really smart dude, but his software is amazing. It does everything. It's, you know, the title tells you exactly what it does. It's an easy webinar platform, and we use this in our business to run automated webinars all the time. We don't do a lot of live webinars these days. We like to do the kind of automated webinars where somebody can register and then it, you know, they can either watch it like 15 minutes later or they can watch it the next day, but it's just kind of always running. And it's a system that helps us make autopilot sales off of our webinars. Super cool tool. If you haven't tried it yet, you know, it's, it's. It's an amazing tool. And Casey is actually hooking you up. He said for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart, I can't believe he's doing this, but he said for listeners of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, he's giving 25% off of the membership to use easy webinar. It's already super, super inexpensive for what it does and all the cool features it has. But he's hooking you up with 25% off because you're a listener of Hustle and flowchart. Go to easywebinar.com hustle. That's where you can get that 25% off discount. That's easywebinar.com hustole. It's a awesome tool. You're gonna dig it, so just go grab it. Check it out. Easywebinar.com hustle. See? No, not see ya. You'll hear me in the next show. I don't know. I don't know how to close these things. Go get easy webinar. Talk to you later. Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that. That they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

Go get it.

Wiki Wiki.

We love you.