John Lee Dumas - How To Be Uncommon As A Podcaster

The only piece of advice you need in this world for podcasting for any entrepreneurship venture is this. Identify the best solution to a real problem and become that best solution to a real problem. If you follow that incredibly simple format, you will win because people will beat a path down to your door to the number one solution to their problem.

This is an intro. Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf. Joe Fear. Hey, I have a question.

I think I know your question.

Are you ready to light on fire?

That was horrible.

Is that how it goes?

Are we gonna be sued by. You're trying to avoid being sued by our guest.

Right, by our guest. I don't think he would sue us. I think we're good enough grudge with him at that he won't incur legal action on us.

I liked your hand movements were on point. I wish there was a video for that.

Yes.

So yes, I am feeling very much on Fire today, Mr. Matt. Okay, good. I am Mr. Fire.

Yes, you are Mr. Fire. You are an entrepreneur on Fear.

On Fear. That's a good thing. Go with fire for this one. Call me Mr. Fire. All right, all right.

Well, today, if you haven't guessed, we have John Lee Dumas on the show. We do entrepreneurs on Fire and he's got a brand new book called Uncommon Success. No, I'm sorry. The Common Path to Uncommon Success.

Yes, good read, Matt. Good read. His book title. We'll say it one more time. The Common Path to Uncommon Success. Yes, you'll hear it mentioned in the episode as well. Definitely go to plenty of times. Yes, it's in there. So go to uncommonsuccessbook.com prior to March 23rd.

Which episode is coming out March 23rd?

So not prior to March 23rd. You're going to hear J in the end of this episode, twist our arms physically.

This release date may have been pushed up a little bit through some arm twisting. And you will hear the arm twisting.

In the episode, the arms did not crack because it was through zoom. But he twisted some arms to make this episode go out live earlier. But that is because if you go to that website, uncommonsuccessbook.com, you're gonna get hooked up with a bunch of books bonuses that he's also giving you. You will find out on that page. But go there, I would say like now, because they might go away. Actually, they are going away like literally today or tomorrow. So you don't have much time. And that's not fake scarcity or anything? No, it's not so.

This was just the earliest we were able to get this episode released, so we could let you know.

Did it for you. Promise you. So, John Lee Dumas, jld, if you haven't heard of him, well, where have you been? He runs the podcast that's called Entrepreneurs on Fire. He's been over 3,000 episodes. He's had 100 million listens on that podcast. I mean, the guy's gnarly with podcasting. He takes a totally different approach. We dive deep into how he does that too. So we don't just talk about the book. That's a big piece of it, but we are talking about how he thinks about podcasting, how he's building his show, how he would launch another one. You know, the way he thinks about that, how he's engaging with his audience, growing his podcast in general and making money off of it.

We also talked about the behind the scenes of the new book. Did you already say that? No, no, I don't think so. So, yeah, we talked about how he got the book published, how he got connected with a big name publisher. We talk about how he's monetizing his guests, which is an interesting discussion. So lots of range on this one. Talking about podcasting. And yeah, speaking of podcasting, Joe, what do we got going right now?

Like, the very first thing I want to say is get the notes for this episode. So while you pause this, you know, there's probably actually three things you should do. So wait to pause until we're done with this call to action part. Yes, get the action guides. Just want to clear that out of the way because we cover a lot. Go to flowchart group.com and we have taken the notes for you of this episode. Be quick as well. And just like the other thing, enter your email address. Within two weeks, you'll get the notes of this episode for free over@flowchart group.com. yes, go ahead.

So go to flowchartgroup.com and then also we've got our own podcasting course. So this episode's all about podcasting. So what better episode to shout out? The fact that we've got a new podcasting course available over@podhacker.com and if you go to podhacker.com, you can learn the new way of using a podcast to build a tribe, grow your business, and create multiple streams of income by simply copying our plug and play pod hacker system. Joe, why are you shaking your head at me?

I'm rolling my eyes. His announcer voice comes up.

Yeah, I Was, like, going to pitch mode.

Pitch mode.

Just go to podhacker.com. there's some good shit there. Okay. Is that better?

It's great. It's more you. All right, let's go chat with jld. Jld, welcome to the show. How you doing, man?

Matt and Joe, thank you guys for having me here. I'm ready to rock the mic. I am truly prepared to ignite.

Are you?

I love it, man. Well, you're Puerto Rico now. You used to be a San Diego boy along with us for a while. How long has it been in Puerto Rico now?

How long you been. Five years now. Five years of actually keeping the money that I make instead of handing it all to California and the government. Like, it's. It's crazy.

It's only going worse.

Was it 4% or something like that in Puerto Rico?

Total? No federal tax, no state tax, 4% total tax.

This is going to be interesting. Got to get down there, buddy. Mario Brown, listen, do not move to.

Puerto Rico unless you want to keep the money you make.

That's the only reason why. I heard they're applying for statehood, though. I just heard that in the news. I don't know if that's going to change, happen.

I don't know. Five glorious years, so I'm not going to complain.

Well, I'm sure people recognize your voice, your name. All that from the. I don't know. Only 3,000 episodes you've done, right? Entrepreneurs on fire. Yeah. Are you still. I mean, I don't know where to start. I mean, I don't want to go on the deep background because I know it's Army. You've done some interesting things all the way up to this point, but almost like, I'm more curious because we have a lot of podcasters listening as well, and aspiring podcasters. Kind of curious of the entry point for you into podcasting, because it's different than most and how you.

Yeah, the entry point for me was really spending six years post military in what I call my six years of struggle, like quitting law school after one semester. Corporate finance, commercial real estate, and just, like, struggling for all of those six years. And then finally, at 32, being like, it's time to, like, make some kind of change. And that just led me to, like, starting to try to educate myself, like, through books, which led to audio books, which led to podcasts, and then me saying, oh, there's just some dudes sitting around, you know, with a bookshelf behind them, like, interviewing cool people. Like, that sounds fun. I could do that, but how can I do it differently? And so I identify. What I found was like the thing that was missing in the podcasting world back then, which was a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. Like, that was gonna be my angle. That was gonna be my niche, my unique selling proposition, so to speak. So that's what I did, bro. Back in 2012, I launched the first daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, which made me the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It made me the worst daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. I was the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs interview. And guess what? When you're the only. Even when you're pretty bad, and I was. People got no other choice in town, bro. It's like back in the days when Blockbuster ruled the roofs. It's like, you want to rent a movie, you got to go to Blockbuster. It's like, hey, you want to listen to a daily podcast? Got to listen to that annoying guy called jld.

Yeah.

Speed up his voice. We can't hear his. No, I'm just kidding. Well, that's great. I mean, because that's a starting point that. I mean, your talent was, I mean, obviously brushing over your true talents, which is you did a shit ton of work, but, like, you just chose.

I had no actual natural talents. My only talent was hard work.

No, the fact that it's like, it's frequency, you know, you stood out, you saw a gap, it sounds like. And I mean, in terms of knowing the entrepreneurial side of stuff, was that your learning phase? Like, you just wanted to dive in and kind of learn from the best as well?

Listen, when I looked around in 2012, after I read the quote by Jim Rohn, which was, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. My average sucked. Like, they weren't bad people, they weren't evil, but they were just Debbie Downers. They were Don Doolittles. And I was like, this is my average. I am literally right in the average of these people. I got to change this. And I said, what's the best way to change it? And I said, I got to start surrounding myself with the right people. And I looked at who I admired in this world, those people that were running these great entrepreneurial businesses. And I'm like, how do I spend more time with them? And, you know, that's where the idea of hosting a daily podcast, interviewing them came to mind.

Now, if somebody was starting from scratch right now in today's environment, in the podcasting world, would you. Would your advice be to start a daily podcast? Like, how would you direct them on how to get a show off the ground. Like, what would be the first piece of advice you'd tell them?

I would say the worst piece of advice you'll ever get is to launch a pale week imitation of somebody else's podcast, which is what about 90ish percent of podcasters do. The only piece of advice you need in this world for podcasting for any entrepreneurship venture is this. Identify the best solution to a real problem and become that best solution to a real problem. If you follow that incredibly simple format, you will win because people will beat a path down to your door to the number one solution to their problem. People don't want the number two solution. They don't want the tenth best solution. They want the best solution to their problem. So when you can become the best solution to their problem, you will win. In 2012, I was the best solution to the problem of a lot of people that wanted a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, because all the other shows did not have any kind of quantity. Four per month, two per month, they wanted 30 per month. And even though the quality wasn't spectacular by any stretch, it was the only show in town. That was it. It was the best solution at that time to a real problem that they had. How can you do that in the podcasting space? That's how you win. How can you do that in the product space, in the service space, in the core space, in the SaaS space? That's how you win.

That's great advice. I mean, I think your book. So, I mean, this is a. You're doing a big. Hold up that book really fast because I just want to show fol how much of a work you've done. No, you gotta, you gotta. Like, that's too heavy to put. So the common.

71,000 words, 273 pages. I could bludgeon somebody to death.

Hey. Hey. You took my joke about the Tim Ferriss books that Matt has back here.

Oh, the Tribe of Mentors. Now, by the way, that book, that is a beast.

It's a beast.

That is nothing. Nothing more than a doorstop.

That's a good book to have in a dark alley with you.

It's true.

Or if you just need to start.

A fire, let's be honest. But yeah, no, let me read. The title of the book is the Common Path to Uncommon Success. And what I enjoy about the approach you took with the book is that it seems like a distillation of everything that you've learned or a lot of what you learned from experts through your podcast. And I'm sure through your network as a result of the podcast as well. Would that be pretty true to say.

It is a culmination of the 3,000 plus interviews that I've done over the past decade with the world's most successful entrepreneurs? And then looking at my audience, Fire Nation, who I've been able to build over the years of launching these 3,000 episodes, having over 100 million listens, getting 1.4 million listens every single month, and having them reach out to me via email, social media, with essentially the same 10 questions, small variance, but they're asking the same 10 questions over and over again. And I want to give them the solution. I want to give them the answer to their questions. But listen, there's no time in the world to answer these hundreds of thousands of emails every day, week and month that come in again around the same 10 questions. But I said, you know, the answer is to sit down and write the answer once and for all so that I can literally then hand physically, virtually this gift to my audience. And I do mean it in that way. Like, this is not, you know, my genius. This is the genius from the 3,000 entrepreneurs that I've interviewed over the past decade. Like, me listening as a mentee, learning from every single one of them at like an unbelievable level, and then distilling down the commonalities that entrepreneurs share. And the commonalities came down to 17 core foundational principles. Just 17. There were 17 of them. I put them in a chronological order, step one to step 17. I knew that those were the 17 answers that my audience needed. And I. That I had to write those chapters and I had to create those responses. And it took me 480 hours to write this book. Two hours a day. That was my cap for eight months in a row. 480 hours to write these 71,000 words. And let me tell you, it was excruciating because I'm not a writer, I'm not an author. Luckily, you know, I went with HarperCollins. So I had like a awesome editor, a great publisher, a great book marketing team like that that made this book what it is. But, you know, I wrote every one of these 71,000 words like it was a process.

But so you didn't leverage the audio aspect of your, of your abilities to.

Speak out the book 0.0%, because it just wasn't going to work for me. Like, you know, I was open to it, but I just had to sit down and write. That was what worked two hours a day. I capped myself off it was the first two hours of my workday for eight months in a row.

What was the, what was the catalyst to write a book and do it in this manner?

I mean, the catalyst was what I just shared. Yeah, I get 10 questions from my audience over and over again. I had to create the one and final solution and answer to those problems that they have to those questions that they have. That was a catalyst for the book.

Got it.

Did HarperCollins, did they contact you and say, hey, we'd love a book from you, or was this an idea that you had and then you kind of went and shopped it around and HarperCollins won it out?

Good question. So the book writing process went like this. I've been thinking for a while about writing a book and I didn't know if I was going to go the self publishing route because I've self published before. I've created the Freedom Journal, the Mastery Journal, the podcast journal, had massive success with all of these. And that was a comfortable zone for me, the comfort zone. But, you know, I do practice what I preach. And I always say, you know, your magic, all the magic happens outside of your comfort zone. So I was like, what would the traditional publishing route look like? Like, that sounds uncomfortable. So I was kicking the idea around for a bit and then actually somebody in my audience is a book agent. She reached out to me, Celeste Fine. And she said, hey, I've represented people like Hal Elrod. I know you have a book within you. I'd love to represent you and get you in front of the big five publishers and some others, and let's pitch your book idea because I know you have one. Let's talk about it. And we talked about it. And she's like, I love that idea. We can make this happen. Let's do this. And so we went to work and she got me in front of all the big five. We shopped the idea, and the bidding war began. She did warn me. She's like, listen, you're a first time author. Advances are typically zero to very low. Let's go for mid five figures because that'll be a nice little start. And I'm like, you know, okay, like, we'll see what happens. And I will say we got, we got a little bidding war out of Penguin and HarperCollins, and HarperCollins ended up writing a $350,000 advance. And I was like, all right, I'll take that as a first time author and that'll be pretty cool. And that was a, that was a pretty good check to cash, so to speak, to inspire me to sit down and start writing this book kind of like right away. And that was kind of the process. And so that was like my decision to go down that road. Like, I liked the idea of, again, the traditional routes to get out of my comfort zone. I like the idea of having an editor and a publisher and a book launch team and like, seeing what that side of the table looked like because I'd gone the self publishing role before. And I liked seeing all the zeros on an advanced check as well. Like, that was pretty fun as well.

It's better than just zero, for sure.

It's better than just a zero.

Dang.

Right?

Well, I'm thinking about this. So the 10 questions from your community. I'm just thinking here for as a podcaster, a lot of folks have difficulty engaging with their audience and actually getting feedback. You know, there's a lot of methods to get that feedback from folks. How do you engage with your audience on the podcast or outside of the show?

Engaging with your audience is everything. I mean, that has been the key to all of my success. And I'm always asking on my show called Action, the outro saying, Fire Nation. Like, I want to hear from you. Like, I want to hear from you. Shoot me an email. Johnilfire.com, hit me up on any social media platform. Ohnlee Dumas, you can message me. I want to hear from you. I really do. And when I get those messages, I always say, can we jump on a call? And again, I did this at a high quantity back in the day. Five per week on average. Now I do, you know, typically like three to five per month. But I'm still doing it because I still want to, like, engage and ask these questions to my audience because I got to keep my finger on the pulse. But back in the day, I was doing as many of these as I possibly could. And I would always ask these four questions. Number one, how'd you hear about my show? Because, like, I needed to know how people are actually finding their way to entrepreneurs on fire so I could pour some igniter fluid on that. Number two, what do you like about my show? So I could start to really understand the words that they were using and the vocabulary about what they like so I could use that in, like, future marketing or emails or social media. Number three, what don't you like about the show? Like, if a theme developed, I could take that thing out of my show, like, if enough people said the same thing. And then number four, what's your biggest struggle right now. And like, getting the responses to that last question literally dictated the next decade of my business. Like, every great decision that I've made from the outside looking in hasn't been my great decision. It's been my audience telling me what they need and me providing the solution to that thing. And that's been all of my multimillion dollar ideas have come from that simple process.

I love it. Engage, ask the questions, actually listen to them, and then execute on what they're asking for. And it sounds like the book is just in line with that whole thing as well.

The book is my best work ever. It is the 17 step revolutionary roadmap to financial freedom and fulfillment. So if getting to your version of uncommon success, if achieving financial freedom and fulfillment is interesting to you, this book will get you there.

So walk us through. Because everyone has their own version of success. So how would you guide people to figure out what is success for them? I feel like a lot of folks just have a big question mark. They haven't really studied that success for.

Everybody'S different, especially on the top level of success. It's like we all have different wants and desires and dreams and that's great. That's what makes us unique and that's what makes, you know, humans different and all that thing. But when you really go the six levels deep and you just really get to the core of what every human being wants, we want these three things. We want to wake up every single day and do what we want to do, where we want to do it with, whom we want to do it with. If we can 100% say we're doing those three things, like, what else is there? Like, that is success, that is freedom. That is what we're striving for. And then once you get that, by the way, and I've had that for years now, you do what is called going from success to significance. And now you're looking for significance. And honestly, this is a significance play for me. This is something that's not going to make me much money comparatively. The $350,000 advance, that's nice, but I make a couple hundred thousand dollars net profit a month. It's not really moving my needle that much. And plus it's in advance, so they get that back before I make a penny. That isn't the reason why I wrote this book. I wrote this book because I've made it. Financially, I'm here. My financial war chest is set. Of course, super inflation can take that all away in a day. I'M very aware of that. I'm prepared for it too.

But it's my audience. My audience has given me this. They've given me this success. Fire Nation. I'm grateful for that. So when they send me these questions that they have and I can't answer everybody individually, of course, I now love the fact I can hand them this book and say, this is my gift to you, literally. And if you're willing to invest in yourself, and I don't mean the money, the 25 bucks that this book costs. I mean the time it takes to read this book, to implement it. If you're willing to invest, this book is for you. Because I want to be very clear, this is not the complicated path. This is not the secret path, the hidden path. This is the common path to uncommon success. So listen, think that this is the easy path either this is hard work. This book is hard work. Me launching this business was really hard work. Every one of the 3,000 successful entrepreneurs that I've interviewed that have achieved uncommon success have worked really, really hard. But you know what's also hard? Being broke, living paycheck to paycheck, waking up every morning and doing what you have to do, not what you want to do, and being miserable doing it. And living a life where you're unfulfilled and so underachieving, even in your own eyes, that's hard too. And by the way, that was me for six years of my life from 26 to 32. So I know that hard. I've tasted that hard. And so my question to you is like, you need to choose your hard. Like will you choose your hard? Like when I came at 32 years old and I said, am I going to choose the hard path of building a business or am I going to choose the hard path of continuing to be broke and miserable and underachieving. Like both of those choices were leading down a hard path. But I chose my heart. I chose the heart of building my dream business. And of course I don't regret it.

I think that's amazing perspective. It's choose your hard, you know, and because either way they are and like, which hard do you want to live with? What do you want to stick in?

It's hard not being able to support your loved ones. It's hard not being able to. My sister had massive health complications a few years ago and I was able to write big checks to make that go away. I've been able to write multi six figure checks to organizations and causes that I love. And it makes me so Happy. And listen, I'm not a proponent of the phrase that money can buy happiness. No, listen, I'm not saying money can buy happiness. I can tell you one thing. The lack of money, it makes it harder to be happy. I can definitely tell you that when you're having again to do what you have to do, not what you want to do, and not be able to support the ones you love in the way that you otherwise couldn't want to. And by the way, I challenge anybody who hands a blank check to a cause that they love not to feel some happiness. That's an amazing feeling.

Yeah.

Sorry, I thought you were going to ask something else. Threw me for a loop. When it comes to the actual monetization side, definitely having money is better than being broke, right? Money might not buy happiness, but if you've been broke and you've had money, having money is better, right? So when it comes to podcasting, how, like, what are the monetization strategies to actually make money from the podcast? And I just, I want to add something to this question in that we actually surveyed about a thousand podcasters because we do have quite a few podcasters that tune in. And out of the thousand that we interviewed, about 80% of them made no money at all off their podcast. And out of the 20% that did make money, 80% of that 20% was making less than $100 a month. So I'm kind of curious, like, do you think there's still plenty of money to be made in podcasting? And how do people go get the money from podcasting?

So here's what I have to say. There's never been plenty of money to be made in podcasting. Never. It's always been those tiny percentages because everybody approaches it and does it wrong. In podcasting, as in life, in any business you're going to pursue, the answer is very simple. If you are able and willing to provide the best solution to a real problem, you're going to win. People are going to buy that solution from you. They will pay money, they will part with their hard earned dollars. But when you're creating the seventh or a hundredth or fifty thousandth best solution to a problem, nobody cares and nobody ever will care. And that's what everybody is doing that's struggling and failing in the podcasting space. They're just a pale week imitation, some other podcast they think is doing well for some reason and they're losing as a result. But those podcasts, and there's plenty of them because I run the biggest podcasting community in the world. Paid podcasters paradise. We have over 6,000 members. It's done over $7 million in revenue. Like, I know the podcasters that have succeeded in the past decade have been the ones who have said, I am going to carve out a niche where I'm the best solution to a problem, and people will find me and beat down a door to my. To my doorstep, and they will beg to give me money for the solutions that I provide. And that will always be the case. That's how you monetize. So, of course, there's a lot of different monetization strategies we can talk about. I'm sure that you've already talked about all of them on your show already, so it's not like we'd be talking about something new. I mean, there's sponsorships, there's monetization, there's coaching, there's courses, there's this. I mean, there's anything. If it's the best solution to a real problem, that's what you need.

I love that.

It gets me thinking about just. You're right. I mean, a podcast is kind of like what you have in your hands over there, the book. You have to figure out a way to market the thing, get it in the hands of the right people who want to have that solution, who are dying for it, and obviously, monetization of all sorts. I'm kind of curious about the marketing side of. I mean, I don't want to just land on the podcast, but when it comes to, say, a book, what's your. And even the podcast like, what's your approach to get more awareness on something new? Like, if you're launching something new right now, I know you're going on a lot of podcasts, and I was hearing from James Schramko. You sent a lot of personalized videos to a bunch of podcasters. I think it was like, 300 personal videos. Is that what it was?

Cool.

Reading your sign language. What are some unique ways that you get attention when you have something new, be it a podcast? Obviously you don't have a new one right now, but you have this book here, and you're helping a lot of people launch something new. What are some ways you go about that?

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I need to make this point very clear before I move on to the next one. When you are the expert in an area, when you are the person who has the best solutions to real problems, when you become known for a specific vertical, a specific niche, no matter how small it is. Now you have something. Now when you have that expertise, whatever that might be, no matter how big or small that expertise may be in that niche, in that vertical, maybe now you can do the following. You can say, okay, I have a podcast and I want to grow my podcast audience.

What do podcast listeners do? Wait for it. They listen to podcasts. I know it's a hard, like, connection to make, but podcast listeners listen to podcasts. And so what have I done personally? Over a decade, I've committed to being on a minimum of 20 other podcasts every single month as a guest. So people will say, john, how do I grow my podcast? How many podcasts have you been a guest on in the past three months? None. Two. And I'm like, well, what are you doing to grow your podcast? I'm posting lives on Facebook and I'm spending money on ads and I'm doing TikTok this. And I'm like, like, podcast listeners listen to podcasts. Why don't you try to convert the converted people that already are listeners of podcasts already that have podcasts in their life? They already have time carved out to be part podcast listeners. They have the app on their phone, they listen, they love podcasts, they get it. And they're like, okay. And I'm just like, well, listen, there's a reason why I spend a lot of my very valuable time. Again, I net hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. I have 91 months in a row, and I still spend time every single month being a guest on at least 20 other podcasts because I know that truth. Podcast listeners listen to podcasts. So I find podcasts in my vertical in the business niche, and I know that they have listeners that should also be listening to Entrepreneurs on Fire because guess what, that the average podcast listener listens to seven podcasts. I just want to be one of those seven. I'm just hoping to be one of those seven. I want to drop enough value in the episode that I'm a guest on where I become one of the seven podcasts that you listen to. And that's my call to action. By the way, at the end of every episode when they have me on, I'm like, hey, John, what do you want to send people to learn more about you? I say, well, I have. I have a podcast too. It's called Entrepreneurs on Fire. You should go check it out. It's pretty awesome. Over 3,500 five star reviews, over 3,000 episodes. Like, Life is good. Let's make this happen. And that is a Great way that I continue to grow my audience. That's why I have over a hundred million listens, over 1.4 million listens every single month. Because I am continuously in front of the right people. I'm converting the converted and I make that happen. And so it's not that difficult to do. There's a whole process behind it. Like, we don't need to get into like the super under the weeds templates that I share. But, you know, I have all of these tutorials and podcasts paradise. That allow you to just crush your podcast guesting.

Do you have any, do you have any specific criteria for podcasts that you'd be willing to go on versus not because I know there's a lot of podcasts out there that have, you know, five episodes and each episode's had three downloads only. So, I mean, how do you decide if a podcast is worth your time or is it just kind of if you've got one? I'm willing to talk.

I really don't spend too much time on the qualification phase because at the end of the day, I'm willing to put in the work and get on the podcast and I commit one day per month and I do 20 episodes in that one day. So I just let people book it up and then it's done. And it's just kind of more of a first come, first serve basis.

The answer to your question is a good one. Or see, your question in general is a good one. And the answer is not super straightforward because I have been on plenty of podcasts before that have never even launched. So that's obviously ended up being, you know, most of a waste of time. I don't mean it's not all, because, listen, every time you put in the reps, you're getting a little bit better. You need to practice your craft too. So, you know, there's a reason why, you know, people don't just play basketball games. Like, they actually practice too. Like there's practice involved. So you can just chalk that up to practice and, you know, what have you, you know, it's giving you the opportunity to hone your skills. Like how many people are actually practicing their craft, honing their skills in their craft? So few. And that's why they're not a good podcaster, or not a good speaker, not a good communicator, not good at what they are trying to do in this world. But at the end of the day, again, you just don't even know. Like, that podcast may only have five episodes launched and only three Listens per guest, but. But then they blow the F up, and all of a sudden they're crushing it. And you were a guest on their show. And what do people do in podcasts? They go and they listen to the whole back catalog. So, like, Pat Flynn was on my podcast. He was the first person I interviewed, and I was still two months from releasing the podcast. But he took a leap of faith, and now his podcast has been listened to millions of times because he's the first episode on Entrepreneurs on Fire. So who's the next Entrepreneurs on Fire?

Yeah, well, I mean, there's also. There's also the networking implications, right? Even if the show doesn't get much traction, you've just connected with another person. Right. I feel like the most connected, networked people almost on the planet are podcasters, right? So that I could not agree.

I mean, there's. It's hard to find a way to build a relationship quickly than as a podcast host, because you're spending time with people. I mean, we're essentially in the same room right now for 45 minutes today. I mean, that is a meaningful hangout session. I mean, it is. It really is special. And your network is your net worth for a reason. So it's really a valuable part of podcasting that. By the way, I underestimated back in 2012. I knew there was going to be a cool thing, but I didn't realize how amazing it was going to be. And again, another reason why a daily podcast was such a win for me, because of all the things. Number one, it was unique and different. So I was actually doing something different than other people out there. Again, I was providing the best solution to a real problem. The real problem being that people wanted more quantity, and I was being that best solution. Number two, I was putting in the reps. Like, I was actually honing my skills and getting better. I was. I would not have been getting much better doing four episodes per month, if I'm being honest with you, but doing 30 per month, doing one every single day. Like, I was getting better at what I was doing at speaking, at interviewing, at, you know, facilitating conversations, all those things. I was getting better, better, better, better at. And then, of course, the networking thing. I'm connecting with 30 people a month, you know, 365 per year, opposed to, like, 50 if I did a weekly show. I mean, it's not even close.

Are there ways that. Because like we just said, there's so many opportunities, so many people are meeting. How do you stay in touch if you do with all of the folks, or at least the cherry pick the ones after you finish the interview. What does it look like after the post interview for you?

Yeah, and that's actually, honestly probably a thing that I could do better. I mean, when it comes to, like, the quantity that I have, at some point, you're just like, it's just too much. But there always are those special people that you keep seeing at conferences, and you go on their show and you kind of build even a deeper connection and relationship. And I have like, you know, some like, initial automated email follow ups afterwards. Just like, let them know that, like, thank you. So that's not really that personal, but, you know, it's at least like, kind of keeping, you know, the flame alive for a little bit after the interview. You know, if I was to be doing a weekly podcast, and so again, maybe I had like 50 people to manage a year, like, I would, you know, probably be doing different things, like, you know, handwritten notes and doing this and doing that. Like. Yeah, because those relationships are valuable and those little things can really add up.

Yeah.

I'm curious how you decide who makes it on the show. I mean, just us. Our show's twice a week. Right. And we're just kind of inundated with people wanting to be on the show. Right. We're getting cold outreach multiple times per day. And so I'm only imagining that for you, that's amplified to another level. So I'm curious how. How do you filter which guests actually make the show and which ones aren't a good fit?

Entrepreneurs on fire gets approximately 400 inquiries per month and has now for years. I literally have a virtual assistant who's almost. His sole job is just kind of going through a lot of the pitches and, you know, just obviously deleting and archiving the boilerplate blasts. But at the end of the day, my show is called Entrepreneurs on Fire. Like, it's not called Entrepreneurs Doing okay. Like, it's called Entrepreneurs on Fire. Like, these are supposed to be people who are crushing it. So. So about two and a half years ago, when I switched from a daily show seven days a week to where I'm at now, which is actually five days per week, but I kind of flex between three and five per week, depending on what I have going on and just how many backlog of guests that I have, it got competitive because now I don't have 30 spots per month. Now I have less. And the demand just was going up, up and up and up. And of course, 2020 has even taken to the next level with everybody that was a speaker or doing this, now they're trying to find other ways to spread their message. Just like. Like, it's crazy. So I have a very stringent application. A lot of things are detailed out on it. One of the things is, hey, Entrepreneurs on Fire has over a hundred million total listens. We get 1.4 million listens per month. We interview people who are literally and figuratively just. Just figuratively on fire. Like, we interview people who are crushing it in life and business. We have a $3,500 appearance fee to be on our show. I loved implementing that for a number of reasons. One, because I like making money. So that was nice, but not the number one reason. Number one reason is because it just shoos away all the fakers. People that can really type up why they're so awesome and why their business is so awesome and how they're making millions of dollars and how they're doing all these things. But then, oh, that's not in our budget. I'm like, you said you just made $34 million last year and $3,500 isn't in your budget. Like, fake. You're an entrepreneur on ice. Let's be honest.

Sub zero. Well, at the end of the day.

There was a show that launched called that, by the way. That was pretty funny. That is actually though the process though. So now when we have that qualification, this says like, okay, click here to apply and we have a guest page, eofire.com guest you can see it's a public page and it has the whole details and it has like the link for the application and has all the things. And then the first thing of the application is, hey, it is $3,500. If you are chosen to appear in Entrepreneurs on Fire, it is a $3,500 appearance fee. Please do not fill this application if you are not willing and excited to pay this fee if you're accepted. And they literally have to check a mandatory yes or no on that. And then they filled the rest of the application, which is pretty detailed. Like, you know, I have them tell me about themselves proposed title for the episode. So I know what they want to talk about prop bullet points. So I see like how the interview might flow. You know, like I check out their website and you know, I check out like their about me page and I'm doing some background research. And again, this is like on like, you know, like the 40 to 60 people that actually apply to that and are willing to pay the $3,500 to be a guest on the show. And that's been a place for years now.

Yeah. And even the people that are willing to pay, I'm assuming even all of them, don't make it through if you kind of.

No, they can't.

Because, I mean, you still have to be protective of your audience, I imagine. Right. If somebody comes on and you're like, I'm not going to have somebody that sells Viagra on my show. Just not a good fit for my show.

Why not? Why would that not be a good fit?

You hope you won five years old, man.

Come on, come on, give me those blue pills.

I mean, I've known a few people go through your show, and every single one of them have said there is no better investment in terms of going and appearing on a podcast and getting a return from that appearance. I mean, if they're looking at it in that way.

Yeah. And the thing about that I love about my show, too, that I've got a lot of feedback on, is like, you know, there's so many business shows out there that literally curate their guests from my guest list, too, because they're like, oh, if the person's on Entrepreneurs on Fire, they've gone through the gauntlet, which they have. And so people that after, when they appear on my show, they start just getting pinged for all these other guest appearances that's happened.

Yeah.

That's a smart strategy.

It is. I mean, at the end of the day, you have a stage. We all have stages as a podcaster, and I think it takes a second to get that. And if you have a following, well, shoot, man. You're not just going to throw everybody on your stage. It's like going to a big conference.

Yeah.

You can't. No way. Yeah. So there's a vetting process and sometimes a fee, and nothing wrong with that. That's great. Now, I want to highlight the book before we wrap up here. Again, is there a. Because I know there's 17 steps principles that you have your own thoughts around, and then you highlight an expert. Are there any one or two of those that really stand out to you that you'd like to share here? And something that you just feel like most entrepreneurs are missing and something that just feels so right as you sniff your book.

This book smells fantastic.

I'm sure it does.

And it is 71,000 words. A beast of a book. Average chapter is about 3,500 words. That's not super abnormal. But chapter seven, step seven, 13,500 words. Just step seven is 13,500 words. That could be a business book in and of itself. The guy interviewed a guy or he was interviewing me and he's like, my whole book's 21,000 words. I'm like, chapter seven is 13,500 words. And it is the reason why Entrepreneurs on Fire has been so successful. It's the reason why we have over 100 million downloads. It's the reason why we have 1.4 million monthly listens. It's the reason why we generated over $20 million in the past nine years is because we have designed a fantastic content production plan. And that's, that's step seven, Design a content production plan. Our content production plan is fantastic. Now I want to be clear. It used to be terrible. It really did. So I want everybody not to feel upset when I tell them right now that your content production plan is terrible. Like, don't, don't be offended. Like you should not be offended because mine used to be terrible as well. So it's okay that your sucks. It doesn't have to suck for very long. I mean it's gonna have to suck for a longer while until you read these 13,500 words and actually implement this content production plan in your life. Cause I was like, this is why I have three virtual assistants and generates hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. Like people think from the outside that my team is like a hundred people. It's three virtual assistants that work 40 hours a week with less than $4,000 of total monthly salary. This chapter, this step is the reason because we have crafted over the years, it took us a long time, a fantastic content production plan. And this is the thing I'm most excited about for people because it doesn't have to be the way it currently is for you. I work during non book promotion. Like this doesn't count because I'm in crazy book promotion now. But come April, I'll go back to my normal schedule, which is I work five days a month. Those five days I work really hard. Like those days are jammed. And then those other 25 days, you know, I'm dipping into emails and doing social media. Like a couple hours of this and that. You know, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, but nothing big.

And I can do that and run a multimillion dollar a year net profit business because of my content production plan, because of what we've created over the years. And I literally give you every single step to create your and design your content production plan. And it's going to change your life. It will change your life.

Give Us one nugget of what most people are just screwing up right now with their content production plan.

There's so many things you know. I know one thing is you're not batching like a baller. Those five days that I have, every day is themed and I am batching like a baller. I'm either all In, I'm doing 10 entrepreneurs on fire interviews or I'm doing zero. I'm either doing 20 interviews on other shows or I'm doing zero. It's all or nothing. And it's themed because your mind works best that way. Like you get into the zone, you can crank it out and then you're done. And we're all gonna have days. We wake up nothing like doing like anything. And guess what? When you have 25 days a month that you don't have to do anything, it's likely that one of those days is going to be those days you don't feel like doing anything. And that's fine. So I just make sure that I batch like an mfer baller.

Bam.

Love it. And that's definitely something we borrowed, implemented, stole from listening to you. It's true. Yeah.

Marks, you guys are great.

Yeah, well, I want to go that far. I mean there's probably some other stuff we're messing up so we gotta read that.

No gut.

Thank you. Well, very cool.

This has been amazing and I think everybody already knows the answer to this. But where do you want to send people after listening to this episode?

Well, is this episode live before March 23rd?

Probably around there.

If you guys had a fantastic content production plan, the answer would have been immediate.

Well, I know when it goes live, I just don't have it in front of me because you're full screen. You're full window for me right now.

Full window.

Well, this will. Well, since you know Matt and Joe don't have that answer, I'll put a little pressure on them and say if they love you. Listeners, you're hearing this before March 23rd. If you're hearing this. If you're hearing this before March 23rd, you're going to be able to take advantage of five amazing pre order bonuses. If Matt and Joe fail you and it's after March 23rd, you will get access to zero of these pre order bonuses. By the way, you should still buy the book because it's fantastic and it's worth it and it 10 years of my life in 273 pages for you. So buy the book no matter what. But if it's before March 23rd. Five bonuses. Just one of them. By the way, I'm shipping all three of my journals, the Freedom Mastery and Podcast Journal I'm shipping to your door for free on me. That's for every single person in the United States. If you're outside the U.S. i still love you. I'm going to email you the beautiful digital packs. There's four other insane bonuses. Count them. Four. You can find out those four other bonuses, uncommonsuccessbook.com you'll see the endorsements from Seth Godin, Gary Vaynerchuk, Neil Patel, Erica Mandy, Dori Clark. You'll see a chapter of the book there for free so you can read and see if you like my style. You'll also see a video of me jumping in my pool in Puerto Rico.

Four times or something like that.

I dunk a basketball and then instantly dry off, and I'm like, ah, air dry Puerto Rico. Even though, like, the humidity is 87%, I'm still dry. And you can see all five of the amazing bonuses, uncommonsuccessbook.com I think we could swing it.

Right, Matt? Do we like our audience that much? Huh?

Well, our audience will find out soon enough.

Oh, they'll know right now.

Yeah, that's true.

That's true.

All right, John, this has been fun, man. Let's get you out of here. I know you're a busy man.

You guys are my last interview today, and I. And I am ready for some Ben and Jerry's.

Nice.

Which flavor?

Cherry Garcia.

Damn right.

You're my buddy.

That's what I'm.

I'm all about. The half baked.

Get out of here. We're gonna go hang out and eat some ice cream.

All right, John, good to you. Bye.

Thanks, guys.

So that was an entrepreneur on fire.

Oh, I would say so.

He came ready to ignite.

I mean, doesn't he always?

I. I think.

I don't think he's ever on ice.

Never. No. That was a fun episode. And I like how we got deep into the podcast stuff. You know, there were some angles in there we didn't think we'd totally explore. But I think it's fascinating because he has a totally different perspective of most podcasters with that whole daily approach. I know when he was doing daily, like, right from the beginning, too, and he still might be. I'm not sure what his workflow looks like, but.

Well, he just said his show is down to between, what, two and three episodes a week now or. No, three and five episodes.

Three to five. Yeah. And he batches But I think back in the day he would batch in an interesting way and then also do all the editing in a batch way where it's just.

Yeah.

So batching has always been his number one thing.

Well, the batching thing, like with our podcast, that's obviously been like one of the keys to success. Right. We've had so many other podcasts before this one, and this was the first podcast, Hustle and Flowcharts, the first podcast out of seven or eight previous podcasts that we actually batch recorded with. This is the only podcast that's ever gone over four years now.

Right.

Like, I think the longest podcast I ever did prior to this one was Authority Insider. Made it about a year or so. And that one I didn't batch.

Yeah, no, there's a reason, man. So that was great feedback from jld. So this episode should be repleased before the date that he just said.

Well, I believe it's. We're making it happen on the 23rd, so you're welcome. We love our audience enough to give in to pressure by jld.

Public pressure. Geez. We could cut that out.

I mean, I could have edited out the pressure, but you know, why?

Why would we? Yeah. So goget uncommonsuccessbook.com or you can just go to the website and then you get the book there, actually. Uncommonsuccessbook.com so grab those bonuses that he talked about. We have the book. It's a fine and dandy book. It is quite the book. That is, for dang sure. So go grab that.

Digital copies. I need a physical copy. I like my physical. I need to smell it. He was telling us how good it smelled.

He was huffing his book.

Yeah. Uncommon Success book is the place to get it. And yeah, I mean.

What do you got, Matt? What stood out to you here?

Well, I mean, there's. There's topics that we anticipated going down and there were some topics that I didn't quite anticipate going down with him that we did go down. I didn't think we were going to go down the route of the book publishing. I never thought he would actually tell us what the advance on his book deal was. A lot of people. But then again, it is Johnny Dumas who posts an income report to his website every single month. So he's insanely transparent about his money and where his money is coming from. So I guess. I don't know why I was surprised that he actually told us what the advance was. But I wasn't expecting to chat as much as we did about getting the book published and how he got the book deal and his thinking behind the book. I knew we were going to touch on the book, but I didn't think we'd get into the behind the scenes. And I thought that was a really interesting take because one of the issues that we have when it comes to bringing someone like John Lee Dumas on the podcast is, you heard him, he goes on minimum 20 podcasts a month. So how do we create content with someone like him that is unique? How do we create content with someone like him that he hasn't given that exact same advice, that exact same content on 19 other podcasts this month? So. Right. That was what was kind of in our heads as we were doing this interview is how do we find some angles that he hasn't already talked about on every other podcast he's been on? So I thought kind of going behind the scenes of the book deal was one of them. I thought talking about his method of charging guests to be on the show with which he brought up, not us. I was planning on bringing it up, but he brought it up. Going down that route with him, I thought would be an interesting thing, because I don't think he touches on that very often on some of the shows he goes on. And a lot of that I found really, really fascinating. And then there was a lot of validation there too.

Right?

There's a lot of validation in the sense that what really, really works are things like batching things, like going on a crap ton of podcasts as your method of growing a podcast. Right. We've been preaching that forever now.

So there was a lot of really interesting things where I'm like, I'm glad he's saying that because that's stuff that we've also been saying. Not to take any credit off of him or anything, but it's like.

When you look at somebody who others perceive as the leader in the industry, sort of mirroring a lot of the advice you've given, that's a good feeling.

It's a good thing. Yeah. No, he's got loads of experience and it's cool to instead know. All right, we're checking off some of the boxes there. Another thing that he that stood out for me that he said was engaging with his audience, that's something that a lot of podcasters just don't do. And they kind of wait for feedback. And typically that feedback's in the form of reviews or ratings. And that's not the best. I mean, yeah, it's public feedback, but I don't know if that's the only feedback you want to go off of. So the fact that he's actually having calls with people still to this day, you know, a certain amount of calls every month is absolutely amazing. I mean, that's. You know, I talked about it before, but I did that recently with the folks on our email list. We shot an email out there and I hopped on a ton of like 15 minute calls and it was like maybe 25 of them or so. And it was amazing. You know, there was so many connections I kind of rebuilt or new people I've met there. Just, it's the feedback. I didn't have the questions in mind that he did because honestly, they were just kind of an off the cuff thing that we were kind of creating in real time. But the fact that, well, he listed the questions, I forget what they were now. Exactly. But we can go back and get the action guides to this and go find them. I'm sure they're in there. I mean, what better way is it to always keep your finger on the pulse of your listeners and that's going to help you steer everything that you create. There's no mystery now. And that is exactly what. But I mean, that's why we even created Pod Hacker all the way back to our own podcasting. The way that we hack, podcast growth, monetization, all that, and translate that to everything you do in business. That was just the number one thing that kept coming up, like, how the hell do I grow my traffic? Branding, whatever it might be, Downloads, and then making money. And he even said about the whole making money side, he's like, yeah, it's always been that way. And it's like, ah, doesn't. I don't want it always to be that way.

But yeah, I mean, he does have, like, a really, really good point, is that most people, they start a podcast and they go, oh, I like what Matt and Joe are doing at Hustle and Flowchart. And then they try to make their version of Hustle and Flowchart. Instead of creating what their show should be, they're trying to create a copy of another show. How many shows are out there now do you think that are like, hey, EO Fire, he does a daily show and he asked the same questions to every person who comes on the show to kind of streamline the process. I'm gonna clone that. How many podcasts are out there that do that? Now if I'm on itunes and I'm looking at business podcasts and I'm kind of listening to samples to find some that we might want to go on or that we might want to reach out to. It's freaking rampant now. That is such. I mean, maybe not necessarily the Daily show, but the. The sort of the templatized questioning is like. You see that a lot now. And back when John started doing that, I think it was a really, really, really smart strategy. But now you have a whole bunch of carbon copy EO fire shows, and they're going, how come he's making $200,000 a month and I haven't made $100 a month? It's because you're not him, but you're trying to be him. Like, it just doesn't work.

Work. Maybe that's why they should get the book or those folks. Obviously not you at the Listener, you know, you should still get the book. Yeah, but. Yeah, no, it's. It's true. It's the. Yeah. I forget how he described it. The pale white carbon copy of.

His podcast or someone else's podcast. Our podcast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think that's how we started our podcast, too. I think I know my past podcast for sure. Like when I did the Business and blogs podcast back back in 2010ish, I was honestly listening to smart Passive income going, I like what Pat Flynn's doing. I'm gonna try to be similar. And I didn't swear. I tried to be like the wholesome family podcast. I tried to. I was talking business without trying to offend anybody. And, you know, that isn't who I am if you have a conversation with me. Not that I'm out there to offend people, but constantly. I don't censor myself. Right. If we're sitting down at a dinner table, I'm not going to censor the words that come out of my mouth. Why was I doing it on a podcast?

It's true. No, I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, this. This is. This is our own unique show at this point, but we didn't start it this way.

Right.

And, yeah, I don't know. A lot of good stuff in this one, I think. Let's wrap it up here because. Yeah, I don't know. There's just so much to hear. My mind is melting. This is. This is. So just be on the scene. This is our batched day as well.

And it's also the same week that we are launching our pod Hacker course.

Let's talk about that.

So as you're listening to this, it may be open, it may be closed. I'm not sure as far as timing, but this was the first week that we opened it, so we've been heads down day and night like getting this Pod Hacker stuff put out into the world.

Yeah. So yeah, at the time of this recording, we literally, I think we just opened the doors as we've been talking actually.

Yeah, like we probably have some sales on it right now, but haven't stopped.

Recording to check and we're not going to until we're done with podcasting. But yeah, batch recording is real. But check out Pod Hacker. That's everything that we do in a easy to follow format and journey for you to follow along. And if it's not open, there's a wait list of some sort.

The best way I can describe Pod Hacker is somebody gave us the advice to just pull back the curtains on your business, literally. What do you do to create your content, to promote the content, to engage with your audience, to make money from your business? What do the emails look like? How do you organize your show notes? How do you organize your podcast? How do you decide what questions? How do you decide what guests to get on? If we just pull back the curtains on, this is everything, no holds barred. This is the entire picture, everything we do in our business.

And we also give you all the templates and say the emails you're sending to guests. Here's the emails I would send. Your show notes page. Here's the format that your show notes page should be in. Just copy and paste this and reword it for yourself. The featured images, here's our templates. Just use these same ones if you want and swap out the images with your relevant images. We'll pull back the curtain. But then everything that we can just do for you and hand to you, we've also put in there.

Yeah, check out podhacker.com it is a no brainer. I mean when I was looking at the thing and this is our own content, I was like, holy moly. I mean this is Matt's wheelhouse of just like formatting an amazing members area that actually it's easy to follow. But as every little piece of bit. Yeah, all these little resources along the way that make it easier. All the friction points essentially of starting a podcast or if you have one, it's optimizing it to generate tons of new downloads and also obviously revenue in multiple streams.

Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty hefty every. I mean, so when you get inside the course, I don't want people to feel overwhelmed because when you get inside the course, there's what's called the Pod Hacker Journey. Right. And this is the 80 20. Just follow this process. This is the kind of core path that you should follow. Right. But then also, outside of that core journey, we go really deep on every topic you can imagine. How to grow the podcast through advertising, how to grow through getting on other shows, how to. To grow through all sorts of methods.

Guesting, like we talked about JLD here.

Yeah. So, like, all sorts of methods for monetization and growth. And so there's the core journey that's like, if you want to basically duplicate our business model, here's the sort of linear path to follow. If you want everything else that you can go test, we've also got that for you too. That's sort of broken out. So it's not too overwhelming.

Yeah. So I guess all this to say is go check it out. If you got lit up on some of this podcasting talk here with jld. Yeah, Go check out Pod Hacker and see if that's a. That's a fit. I mean, it's literally us just kind of opening everything up here, podcast business side and all the other bits and bobs that we're involved in. I mean, it is a behemoth. But it's not overwhelming, though.

Yeah. And ongoing. So each month we're bringing in different experts and stuff to go even deeper on specific topics. And it's. I mean, it's for the people that if you have a podcast and you actually want to, like, scale the hell out of it and make money, it's for you. Also, if you don't have a podcast yet, but you think, like, this might be a good bolt on for my business, it's probably for you as well.

Yeah. Sweet. Oh, we didn't call out the action guides for this episode yet, but you should get them because it's gonna get you the notes from this episode as well with JLD. So if you go to flowchartgroup.com it's gonna be free for the two weeks that this episode went live. Two weeks is free notes. After that, they go into our membership. And if you go to fluidchart Group, enter your email address, because that is our Facebook community as well. But if you put your email address in there, you will get the notes. So go get them.

We'll do that.

And Easy Webinar is our lovely sponsor. Everything Webinars. Matthew, take it away.

Yeah. So Easy Webinar does live and automated and hybrid. And I know, at least for a time, John Lee Dumas was using Easy Webinar I believe he's one of the testimonials on the EZ webinar website.

I remember that.

So it's what he. He's used.

Yeah. So Go Grab Easy Webinar. I was going to make another comment there, but found it was too inappropriate, so I'm not going to make it.

You censored yourself. You said you never censor yourself.

Yeah, but sometimes I got to be careful.

Gotcha. Okay, carry on.

Sometimes I got to be.

I trust you. I trust you.

I don't want to give any personal details about Joe's intimate life.

Yeah. I mean, I'm willing for you to share, but let's not this time.

Let's not do is Go Grab Easy webinar over@easywebinar.com hustle because he's hooking you up with a nice little discount for being a Hustle and Flowchart listener.

He being Casey Zieman and the team over at Easy Webinar.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. It's your one stop for everything webinar. So easywebinar.com hustle, you'll get a fatty discount because you are a Hustle and Flowchart. Listen. And hey, if you actually made it this far and you're loving everything you hear and you know, some friends that want to hear it, too or should hear it, go share it with them.

Yes.

However you want to share it with them, we don't care.

You know, there's some podcasters out there right now who their content sucks, and they're doing it all wrong, and they're following the uncommon path instead of the common path. Go send those people this episode.

I like it. All right, thank you for hanging out. Out. We'll see you next time. Love you. Bye.

Thanks, everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com, find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address, and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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