Jon Schumacher — The Art Of The Perfect Webinar

Welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your hosts, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, what's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. My name is Matt Wolf and I'm here with my business partner, Joe Fear.

Oh, hello.

And we've got another awesome guest today. Today we're going to be talking about webinars with our good buddy John Schumacher. And John is just a, he's a webinar ninja. I mean, together all of the smartest minds in webinars and gets them all to like their best webinar strategies. He actually does consulting in the 10, $15,000 range to help other people with their webinars. He's doing a lot of amazing stuff in the webinar space. So we're really, really excited to have him here today. And thanks so much for joining us. How are you doing today?

All right. Hey, Matt. Hey, Joe. I'm excited to be here and talk about one of my favorite things and that's how to use presentations like webinars to educate people, build rapport, and ultimately gain more clients. So I'm excited to, to have this discussion.

Awesome. Yeah, I mean, we've got a webinar going right now, so very selfishly, we're very excited about this call as well.

Yeah, let's talk. Let's see what we can come up with.

Well, I guess for the straight up newbies and people just don't know what webinars are, maybe the types of webinars. Can you just kind of give a quick overview of the types and the purposes, things like that?

Yeah. So there's the live, there's the recorded or evergreen, and then there's the hybrid version which is a blend of both of those. So basically for those that are brand, brand new, a webinar is basically just an online seminar. Right? It's a seminar that's on the web. That's how they came up with the name webinar. And it allows you to have your best presentation put forth one to many online. So instead of having to get into a room with a bunch of people, you can sit at home in your boxer shorts and have hundreds of people around the world experience your best presentation one to many. So it's really the most powerful online conversion point that I know of. If you guys know of something else, let me know. But it allows you to reach a bunch of people at one time with your best sales or offer presentation one to many with people around the world. There's the live version where you obviously Hit the button and you're doing it live with an audience. There's the evergreen version, which I've done a lot more of recently, where basically you can have your best presentation running 24, 7, 365 around the world. Then the hybrid version is just simply doing some of it live and some of it recorded. You might start live and say hi to everybody. You might have a portion that you record or inject. It could be a teaching section, could be a testimonial or something. Then you come on in the end and answer questions and stuff like that. Those are the three main types.

Yeah. One thing that's really awesome about webinars that we've noticed is that you get some of the best opt in rates on webinars. It's mind blowing. We'll build squeeze pages and drive people to various offers, but nothing seems to build our list faster than putting on webinars. Have you found something similar?

Yeah, I mean, webinars are great for list building, great for rapport building. I think it was Frank Kern who said that there's a certain percentage higher of total customer lifetime value for people who entered his business from webinars. So I think there is some value of leading up front with a presentation. And obviously if someone's willing to give you their time up front like that, they're going to be more likely to become a customer, I think so. I think lead costs are potentially a little higher on the front end for cold traffic than a lead magnet. But still, it's still a great tool, great list building tool for a number of reasons. Right.

I guess that leads us into a pretty good thing because a lot of our leads, most of them, all the new ones, come from cold traffic. So advertising on Facebook mainly and retargeting things like that. Where do you normally get your traffic from or where do you see your best converting traffic coming from?

Well, of course, if you have a list like Cody and I have a list, we both have email lists and stuff. So that's an easy source to get people generally a higher registration rate. Because they know you, right? I mean, they already know you, they've experienced your teaching style, they hopefully like you. So you generally get higher signup rates from your own list, your own resources. And then JVs, of course, are another potential source of traffic that's generally a little bit warmer than cold traffic. But. But ultimately, I mean, we've been doing a lot of paid traffic lately because it's the scalable thing. We're trying to dial that in.

And if we can make that. If you can make paid traffic work at scale and get a good return on ad spend, then you really have something that can grow really quickly. There's good and bad in all of that. I like to start organically with a new project. So we'll run our webinar through our list and stuff first and then we'll look to, to gather some data from that. Of course it's going to be a little bit warmer and then go out into the blue ocean of kind of paid traffic more and things like that.

Yeah, and I guess we've done a little bit of both where we've started with cold traffic and then also to our list because yeah, like you said, if you can perfect cold traffic, at least ROI on that somehow, then I mean, going to affiliate JVs and warmer endorsed traffic, it should convert much more.

Yeah, I mean, our goal when it comes to webinars has always been let's get it converting as well as possible to cold traffic because we know it's going to convert slightly better when we start allowing affiliates and stuff to promote to it.

Yeah, I think that's fine if you have the budget up front to spend and test. So yeah, I mean, obviously you need to have some money aside for that. If you're going to go straight to cold traffic, then that's fine. But yeah, we generally start organically first with our list. That's kind of what we do to get some data on the funnel a little bit. I know it's not exactly like it's going to be with cold traffic, but this is kind of how we've operated now.

What would you say to somebody who doesn't really have a list and they've got a fairly small, if any, budget at all, but they're interested in kind of going down the route of doing webinars?

Yeah, I mean, obviously we all started zero or, you know, none of us come out of the womb with a list or anything like that. So there's, you know, if you're, if you have no list or no budget or really no partnerships, you're going to start smaller. Right. I mean, that's just the way. I mean, I started smaller. I remember had my first sales webinar. I had like 30 people on there. But I, but I still made, you know, some sales and was. Got excited about it and stuff. So. So yeah, I mean, you're going to start smaller if that's you. But you know, the thing to get going quicker is, you know, so practice the technology. Make sure you have that down Practice your presentation. Try to gain access to maybe a few people's audiences. Like my first 100 and I think 30 subscribers through webinars I got. Just because I did a webinar for a Facebook group, I got permission to host that for somebody. So if you're just starting out or if you've been in the game a while and you guys know this, having relationships with people can speed that up, right? For sure. Because after I did my little Facebook group webinar, I had a whole hundred and thirty people.

On that list.

What I'd done is I had a connection to another guy who was a video marketer who had a big list. And even though I couldn't possibly reciprocate for him because I didn't have much of a list, he had about a 10k list. He still liked me and liked what I was doing and he agreed to do a webinar with me. So he put on another three or four hundred leads through that webinar in one shot. And I've just kind of. That's how I started out, was really doing little partnerships with people and we'd get a few hundred leads here and there and make a few grand in sales here or there, and then just kept kind of growing from there. I don't do it as much as I used to, but I think for a lot of people starting out, there's really only a couple ways to do it. Right. You can try to find friends and partners to kind of co mingle with because you don't need to pay. I mean, you have to pay an affiliate commission, obviously, but you don't have to pay on the front end usually for something like that.

That's one idea. That's the tricky part. It's like a rocket ship. It's like a rocket ship uses 80% of its fuel to leave the launch pad, but once it leaves the launch pad, it goes back to the moon and back on 20% of its fuel. So business is that way too. Right. When you're starting out with nothing, no assets, you got to kind of scrap it together a little bit.

Yeah, I like the idea of going back to that Facebook group approach because now more than ever, I feel like there's so many big Facebook groups out there that are targeted in different niches. And if you can provide some kind of value like you were doing, and this goes for a one on one relationship too, but it's all about providing that value to try to get that partnership or maybe teach something to that group and you can kind of direct them to. Maybe it's an opt in page or whatever, live video even on Facebook these days.

Yeah, I have a student in my academy who started his whole business just doing that. So you need to get permission obviously. But he was in a fairly non competitive niche. He was actually in the soil restoration niche or something like that. It's like an environmental niche that his partner and him were selling a pretty sizable course. He actually is packing people onto these webinars just by getting permission to post in these Facebook groups. I mean he was getting, he added over a thousand people, I think to his list from these groups pretty quickly and started getting people to his webinars pretty quickly with that. So it is one option. Facebook groups can be a good option. Obviously you don't want to spam the groups.

No, no, no.

Very cool. Now let's shift focus and talk a little bit about doing automated webinars because you've got some pret good strategies and good systems around actually automating the webinars. So I'm curious what your process looks like and then maybe we'll dive a bit deeper on individual things.

Yeah, I mean, processes in like the structure of the funnel or what are you guys looking for there?

Yeah, yeah, I'm looking for like the structure, how you flow, how each piece fits together and what are the pieces to it?

Yeah, so it depends. I mean if you're selling a product direct on webinar or if you're trying to get like applications.

Start by discussing.

If you have a product you're trying to sell. Let's say you're trying to sell an info product through a webinar. Let's start there.

Yeah. Okay. So I mean obviously you need a traffic source, but you know, obviously, you know, a registration page, a thank you page. I think a thank you page is one of the most underutilized pages on the Internet. Right. I think that, you know, that's the only page everybody's gonna see, everybody who signs up. So I like to have some kind of a video or some kind of a bridge there to start authority building and, and teaching and getting people excited and understanding the next steps.

Depending on how soon the webinar is. If you're doing just in time or if it's like, you know, delayed, you can bridge off the thank you page or off of a welcome email into some content to start pre building before the webinar. Because not every attendee is the same. Right. Like if people have more touch points prior, they're going to be more likely to Want to buy from you. So I think that's a big page. The live room. Obviously we got to have a live room. Most webinar software is like easy webinar, stealth, everwebinar, all these. They have this funnel already sort of pre built for you.

Right.

But yeah, the live room of course you're going to have a presentation. One of the key mistakes I see people making on their presentations is over teaching. I do this all the time. Instead of inspiring people emotionally with, with reframing mindset beliefs and telling compelling stories, we tend to try to teach the process too much and people clap their hands, they walk away. Thanks a lot. But they don't necessarily buy your product or service. So I think having that compelling presentation that focuses on building you as an authority.

Getting people to really believe in that one thing you want to teach using stories, reframing their mindset a little bit is really key. And then the follow up is really key. So most people will not even buy your product right on the spot. Right. Like it depends on the price point obviously. I have one that I sell a thousand dollar course on.

And I would say the majority of the sales come after the webinar.

That's interesting.

So I have about 11 email sequence over four days I think. And I have like four emails the last day. And I use deadline funnel on the back end. So I have authentic deadlines and stuff like that to create that process. But how many touch points do people need on average for a thousand dollar course? For people that really don't know you, they need usually more than one. So if they've consumed more of you, they've gotten some of your messages and there's a compelling deadline and compelling offer, then it makes it more likely to hit.

I have three things from what you just said because that was pretty amazing right there. That was literally from the front to the end, from getting the traffic all the way to making money. Amazing indoctrination. Right before the webinar or maybe it's before the opt in. I know you talked a little bit after on the thank you page, getting them to know you a little bit more. But this is more important obviously with cold traffic coming from say Facebook or something. Do you do anything in terms of Facebook ads or anything prior to even the opt in to get them to know you and trust you?

Yeah, I mean as far as like.

With any kind of content or. Yeah, something like that.

Yeah, we've played with that. Like Facebook lives on the front end and then you know, like, you know, let's Say depending on how long it is, you could do like retarget 10 second viewers or 25% viewers to. So you could run a video view campaign right on the front end and get people from there to you know, a webinar or lead magnet. And then behind the lead magnet you can, you know, bring in, you know, a little bit of a warm up sequence.

Yeah, yeah.

And retargeting and all that. So you can get pretty complicated with that stuff for a lot of people. Their heads gonna blow off their necks from trying to set that up. And there's a lot of pieces to test there too. Right. So you know, that's why honestly guys like the more that I played with this and I certainly don't have all the answers but you know, just kind of always experimenting like you guys are. But you know, I really, it's such a pain in the ass to have to set up all these campaigns and do all this retargeting stuff. So right now we're doing a high ticket webinar funnel just to lead magnet and then direct to webinar. The lead magnet's outperforming right now. But it's so much easier if you're just selling something more expensive. And it's just so much easier to ROI your ad spend even if you're paying more per lead than putting together all this complicated stuff.

Oh yeah, I don't know, man. No, that's good, that's helpful because we, I mean we've done both things. We're selling like you said, $10,000 packages. Maybe it's coaching, but also a $500 product on a webinar. But then you're driving to drive paid traffic. So like you said, it's hard to roi. You need to really dial in that conversion on the webinar or in the follow up.

It's tough in the US and Canada. You know, the lead costs have gone up lot. I remember a couple years ago I could run ads, just target like one fan page and we got like you know, $2 opt ins right from Facebook. You know, it's really a lot tougher to do. I mean we are getting.

We'Re getting some, some ad sets, you know, some ads that are getting like 250$3 an opt in to a lead magnet we have. You know, finding the right lead magnet can be helpful in front of your webinar as well. So because a lot of that once you get the lead, you can follow up, you can invite them to the evergreen webinar, you can retarget Them you can do all kinds of stuff too, but yeah, it's a lot. I don't know what you guys are seeing on your ROI and ad spend from lower end products, but it's just from the numbers that I've seen so far, it's harder to get that 300% ROI from even $1,000 course versus selling, you know, a higher end, 3 to 5 to $10,000, you know.

Yeah.

Experience or coaching or done for you or something, you know, it's just easier. Seems easier to get a good return.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah. And I mean a lot of, a lot of the process too is going to be on the back end. I mean right now we are running traffic to a webinar that pitches a product that's $500. But then once you're on our list, we've got about 10 other products we're going to offer you over time. So I mean you got to take some of that into account that yes, maybe we are paying, you know, $5 per lead to get onto our list, but we're gonna. They may not buy our $500 product, but they'll probably buy something from us.

Along the line, right? Yep, yep. And it's about the lifetime value and trying to map that out and you know, it's just. Yeah. Which ads. I don't know how you guys are tracking all that or how. I mean you guys are experts obviously and you probably could teach me a few things on tracking and customer journey and all that stuff. But it is, you know, like you say, right now we're just digging the simplicity of having a high end offer. Now we're probably gonna add. Had something, you know, we're selling, you know, between a 15, 10,000 to $15,000 package right now.

There's nothing wrong with being simple, man, I love that. I mean that's, that's honestly where we want to. I mean with this specific product we're not going to be charging that much for but you know, like a coaching done for you. Something like that makes perfect sense.

And a lot of people are selling, you know, like six to eight week, you know, content with coaching experiences for 3,000, $5,000 like on as their front end offer. Which you know, I think, you know, if you go from webinar to application to a salesperson, that can make sense, you know.

Oh yeah, I've done a lot of that in a previous business where it was selling, yeah, 10k up and it was all selling that application exactly like what you said. And you just load people up and have a couple sales guys or women behind there and, you know, just making calls. Now, there were two other points I was kind of extracting, at least personally, from that little explanation that you gave. The second thing is telling compelling stories inside of your webinar presentation and kind of hitting that emotional touch point rather than over teaching. Is there like a process or maybe some, maybe the top things you like to say to actually create these stories maybe for people who aren't that good at kind of pulling those emotional points out of their teaching.

Yeah, so I know. So the main goal of your webinar is obviously to get them to believe, you know, one big thing, right? And that's, you know, whatever the topic is of your webinar, what you're trying to get them to believe so that they ultimately want to become a client or customer of yours. So the stories need to be pointed around some of the key false beliefs that people would have about that one thing, if that makes sense. I think Russell Brunson does this well in his framework where he has people believe one thing and then I think he uses the three secrets sort of model. And those secrets are around their mindset beliefs, right? Like about themselves, about what you're teaching, all of these things. So it's good for you to be able to tell personal stories. Really, you know, like a personal story, like, like for webinars, for instance, it's, you know, for beginners it's, oh, the technology is too difficult or too, you know, hard to do. So if I'm selling a beginner course, I need to get, I need to have them not think that, right. Otherwise they're not going to take action. So I need to tell a personal story, like about myself, you know, maybe how I was brand new, I have no computer background, no business background. You know, I hired a coach, you know, for $300 an hour. She showed me how to use Google Hangouts back when that was new, you know, And I tell a quick story and then I'll tell a quick, maybe a client of mine or something who was also non techie. So the stories need to relate to the.

False belief that you're trying to address. And so I like to have someone like you can use the fill felt found method for yourself. I know how you feel. I felt the same way. But what I found was this new way or something like that. So you can use the fillfelt found method for your own stories you could use for your own client. Same thing. Like she felt this way, but what she was doing was this but what she did after I helped her was this. Right. And so you kind of use the before, during and after or the model or the feel felt found method to kind of frame your stories right now.

I love that because it allows you to teach a little bit or present, maybe it's a case study that you've with a client like you said. But then building that emotional story around there because just being transparent with our webinar, I think that is something where we love teaching. We just really love just kind of putting it all out there. But obviously people come for the teaching, but they also come to be told emotionally where to proceed next. Kind of feel like they've been related to and things. So yeah, that's actually something we'll probably go and revisit in our own.

And it's funny because I like to teach, I'm a teacher, I don't really like selling stuff. I enjoy the income and you gotta sell yourself. But you know, and it's hard. Like I've done different types of webinars, I've done like screen share. I have one right now that's just a screen share of a funnel that actually does pretty well. I'm surprised, even though it was mostly just teaching. But that one's not necessarily. It's more of a backend webinar, not cold traffic to it kind of webinar. So. But yeah, I mean I think we got to move if the goal of the presentation is to get them to work with you, we got to get them to believe that they can do it, that they got to believe in you. They got to believe in the opportunity, the new opportunity and they got to get excited about that. And stories as you guys know, you know, really help anchor that in. So you know, but if we just teach them, I mean you can't possibly teach them everything they need on an hour webinar.

Nor do you want to. You don't want to overload them. And I mean they should be taking action further, you know, with your own product or whatever you're selling later on. So you got to just kind of get them kick started in believing that you have more for them that'll change their lives.

And that was hard for me because I really don't like coming across as the kind of I am or type of folk. And so it was hard for me to get away from the over teaching piece. And I still struggle with that sometimes because I just like here, I just want to give you guys this stuff. I don't care. But ultimately it is more Effective from a if you want to gather applications or if you're spending money on traffic, it's your business, you got to make money. Right. Otherwise you're just not going to be able to do it. So it is a business and we are running businesses. So we need to find the right people to become clients or we're just not going to be in business.

Now last thing, and I know I've been kind of taking this, but Matt can pop in here. Matt, I'm just waiting for you to.

Finish your three questions.

Three is the follow up. I just wanted to explain. Okay, so this 11 kind of email follow up sequence that you have there, maybe the nuts and bolts or just describing that a little bit more.

Yeah. So if the goal is selling a product, it's a little different follow up than an application kind of follow up. But if you're selling a product directly through that webinar, I usually do like a 4 day 11 email sequence. I use Deadline Funnel to redirect from a special offer. So I'll have some kind of special incentive. Could be a bonus or pricing or both. But there needs to be some kind of incentive. Evergreen incentive, Authentic evergreen. That's why I use deadline funnels. So if they know it tracks their IP and their browser cookie and all that stuff. So if they don't do it then they don't get it. Right. And so I feel good with that. I wouldn't want to do a fake scarcity. I just don't feel good about that. So I do that. Those emails mainly talk about they do a lot of storytelling so they share a lot of case studies.

So I want to get them excited with stories. I one thing I'll do with the replay page, I'll actually take my sales page and I'll have the replay of the webinar at the top and they'll have a scrum bar so they can with timestamps underneath that. Because most people, if you look at replay watch numbers, the length is much shorter than the actual webinar. Right, Right. People generally, if they know it's a replay like eh, let me hurry. So what I like to do is try to give them timestamps of the key pieces so they can use the scrum bar to go where they want on that same page. The entire offer is laid out too. So it's sort of an offer page slash replay page. That's what I'll link to from the emails. Sometimes it's good to create a PDF if you can. I don't think I've done this for my webinar yet, but I've heard this works and you guys might want to test it. It's just creating a PDF of the main points.

With a link to your offer page throughout the PDF, especially if you're going to do evergreen that way. Some people like to just scroll and consume that way or read that could be an option to have in your follow up. But yeah, mainly an FAQ email, some stories on the front end. Usually the first email is a recap and a recap of the offer. Then I get into stories.

Case study, examples.

An FAQ email, and then usually towards the end it's like four emails the last day that really.

Deadline.

Yeah, put the deadline.

Got it. That's cool.

Yeah, that makes sense. There's actually one other little point of the whole flow that I want to dive in. You were talking about the thank you page being the sort of most underutilized page. I'm curious, what type of messaging do you put on that page or what do you recommend people put on that page? Is it typically do you try to offer them something to sort of liquidate your ad costs immediately or do you do something that indoctrinates them, gets them excited to be on the webinar or a combination? So I'm just kind of curious what, what sort of philosophy you have behind the thank you page.

I think having an offer there is a smart idea in a lot of cases. It's something I haven't done a lot of. I have done that with lead magnets, having a self liquidating offer and those type of things. I think that's something that could work in many cases. Right from the thank you page to date, it's mostly been to get them excited about my webinar.

I usually have a video. Sometimes I'm on video. You know, I have a whiteboard room. I can go and like, you know, talk on the video if I want, just so people can see me and hear me and kind of warm up to me. And I do a little bit of like overview teaching of what we're gonna talk about on the webinar. You know, sometimes I'll have like, you know, lines on there. Like if we're doing like, we're covering three things, like I have like blanks on the board and like we're gonna cover these things and fill these in just to kind of get people excited to fill those in. But yeah, it's mainly been just a little bit of like warmup teaching and kind of warming up to me. But I have A survey usually on the thank you page so I can continue to gather data on what they're struggling with. I'm trying to get them also to take little commitments as well throughout that process. But that's what I've done mostly. But I think it could be. I know some people are using that thank you page to sell a lower end offer and those type of things, which could be worth a test.

Yeah, we've tested both ways. I'm always a little concerned putting an offer right there might sort of cannibalize sales on my actual product offer on the webinar. So there's those sort of considerations that you got to think about and test as well.

But I like the idea of the micro commitments like you were saying. So maybe it's like print out this sheet and have it in front of you during the webinar so you can fill in the blanks like you said, or fill out the survey prior to the webinar just so we have some. Maybe you can say something like this helps us kind of create a better presentation for you, whatever it might be. Little things like that.

Now what, what technology did you say you were using for the webinars?

Right now? I'm using Ever webinar. You know, I'm, you know, it's, it's okay. I mean, I'm not like in love with it. I've used Webinar Jam for a long time. As you know, they've had some ups and downs recently with the Google hangout changes. Ever Webinar is obviously independent of that. Right? You can host it on another service or something like that. But, but yeah, that's what I'm using right now. I'm also looking at easy webinar. Casey Zeman's a good friend of mine and I'm looking at potentially going over that way too.

That's what I'm using right now. Cool.

Yeah, I mean we're actually just using the most simple, simple sort of like click funnels funnel for our automated webinars right now. So there's not nearly the technology behind it is like what in every webinar or an easy webinar we provide.

But it's doing the trick.

Well, tell me about that because I mean we're actually building our own custom click funnels template right now to use with clients rather than a designer build one. And we were thinking of using just native click funnels for the evergreen webinar just to go. We don't need an extra expense for clients and stuff.

Yeah, I mean it's real simple. I think it's fairly obvious that it's an automated webinar, but I think people are sort of beyond that. I think people kind of. It's not a secret, you know.

And you know, we never do anything that says like hey, join this live webinar. We never ever mention the word live.

If it's not live.

But yeah, I mean, clickfunnels, the registration page we're using converts better than any registration page we've ever used in the history of our business for cold traffic. And yeah, I mean it's just a real simple sort of replay page. And clickfunnels put some sort of overlay over the page that makes it so they can't click on the video and you know, pause the video or anything like that. But other than that, it's just a real simple. When they land on the page, it says comments are currently turned off for this webinar and it auto plays the webinar and there's an overlay over the video itself so people can't pause it or see the controls. But other than that it's pretty simple. And then there's a time delayed button that pops up right around the time we mentioned the price.

Okay, so there's an order pop in that you can put in and those type of pieces just like with every webinar. And then is there a lot of good data from that? Can you see when people drop off and stuff like that?

No, that's sort of one of the downsides of using clickfunnels is that their reporting isn't the greatest. We can see how many opt ins we're getting so we can see the traffic, the opt ins, our opt in conversion rate. But we're not using click funnels for our checkout. We use ThriveCart for our checkout. So you know, we don't even get our sales data out of clickfunnels. All of our videos are hosted with Vimeo. So we get our sort of engagement data from looking at Vimeo. We could see in Vimeo how long the average customer sticks where the largest drop off points are. That sort of thing that comes in when we check into our stats on our Vimeo player.

Okay, cool.

Yep. But it's doing the trick for us and it's what we found to be the simplest, quickest way to get something live. We've used ever webinar as well. We do like ever webinar. But I mean I'm sure you're aware the process to get a new webinar up could be fairly time consuming even once the video is made. There's just so many steps and so many options and so many boxes you got to fill out. And, you know, clickfunnels just seem to be quite a bit quicker to just get something online and get traffic driving to it.

Yeah, sure. I'm excited. Yeah, we're going to build out, like you say, a custom template for high ticket template, webinar template. We're going to build that out. So anyway, cool, thanks.

Good stuff.

I think. Where are we at, Matt? I just want to make sure we're not going too far here.

Yeah, I mean, we're looking good on time. We got a couple more minutes here. There's one new question that I've never asked people on the show, but I heard it on a different podcast and I said I'm going to totally steal that question because love it.

Do it.

So here's my question. Is there one sort of tip trick, hack, some sort of actionable piece that you can give our audience before we close it out? And what I'm looking for is something that, as you're saying it, you're thinking, man, I can't believe I'm sharing this for free. I'm looking for just some really good, like, nugget that's actionable that somebody could go and take away and implement if they're doing webinars.

Yeah. Geez. One thing, there's like a million different options.

Hey, if you want to give me more for free, I'm open to it.

Well, we've already given so much.

I know.

Yeah. For free.

Yeah. I think the big thing. Yeah. So here's the thing. I'll give you this and I don't know if it's what it's worth or what, but here's the thing. If you're brand new out there, I'm a big believer in the 8020 rule. Right. Of webinars. And we've talked a lot about, you know, all these little conversion trinkets. I know all of us geek out on that because we're all been doing this for a little while. But the reality is you just need to focus on the big three. If you're just getting started and click funnels like you say, could be a great option because it's simple and easy. The big three are your offer. Like, no one gives a crap if you have a webinar. If your offer sucks, you're screwed. Right. So having a compelling offer that a specific market cares about and being able to position that effectively will make or break your webinar. Right? No one cares that you have a webinar. You know, they just, they care that you, that you can help them. Right? And so you got to focus on your offer, your presentation, which is just, you know, the script, you know, like, how are you positioning it? What's the message? It doesn't have to be the prettiest looking thing to start with. It's just, you know, it has to be a compelling message that gets people excited. Like we talked about some of the elements of that earlier and then the follow up, right. And so you don't, you know, you don't need an 11 part follow up, but you do want to have some kind of follow up sequence in place with a specific deadline. Those are the three, the big three, as I call them with the webinar. And then beyond that, you test that and then you can look to make it more complicated and tweak things and improve things and all of that from there. Right. But the core elements are those things.

And fair enough to say, you can create a very profitable webinar with just focusing on those three simple things, you know, not complicating anything.

Well, one thing, just from our discussion already that I'm really excited to look forward to is, or, you know, looking into more, is that that Deadline Funnel. I've, I've heard that tool, that name thrown around, but I've never looked into it, never used it myself, never played with it. So I'm kind of excited to look into that and, you know, figure out ways to add new scarcity elements to our current promotions. So I think that's a cool little, like, little trick that you've already sort of unveiled for people.

Yeah, that's Jack Bourne's software. Right. And so you can use that at any point. Like, let's say you guys have multiple offers in your customer journey. You could have, you know, an element of time now because I mean, people suck at buying things, right? Like, or they suck at making decisions, right? So if you give them an incentive, you know, and a deadline for something like, you know, a cost or a bonus or, you know, something compelling, they have to have a reason to buy now, right? Otherwise they just, they just don't, you know, they, they just don't. So they got to give them a reason to buy now. And so, yeah, I mean, you could have, you know, like you say a promotion segment in your customer journey for each product and then use Deadline Funnel to actually have that be real evergreen scarcity. Like, oops, you missed it. Sorry, you know, like, that's right. That's what I said was going to happen. And I kept my word.

You know, scarcity, man. If you're not having those points of scarcity all over the place and obviously.

You can do it.

Price, scarcity, time scarcity, quantity. I mean, there's so many different things in these Evergreen funnels you could still do.

And the thing with Evergreen is you can't really like close the program. Like our clothes, we're only taking four more students. You're like, bullshit, you know.

But you can do price increases. Like you could redirect them to a different offer page after, if the time expires or, you know, a bonus expiring or something, you know, some kind of incentive, you know, for people is going to help your rates a lot.

Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. Just a couple final questions to wrap up here. We always like to ask people when they come on, if they have any sort of book recommendations, any sort of book that you find yourself recommending often or that you kind of find yourself rereading, you know, once a year or so. Are there any books that you can tell people they should go check out?

Yeah, I'm a big reader. Let's see here. One I'm reading right now, it's not a business book, but it's called the Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday.

Oh, that's a good one.

Good book on one page a day to read for the entire year. And it kind of keeps your mind in the morning focused on, I don't know if you guys know stoicism, but keeping things focused, accepting things as is, keeping things in your own kind of present moments. And I think that's a good one.

What else am I reading right now? I mean, I just read Russell's new book. I thought that was well done. The Expert Secrets book. I think he did a nice job of giving very specifics. His four question sales script is really good. If you guys are doing anything on the phone, I think that's a really nice model to follow in that book. Scaling up is another one. I know you guys are big on systems. I think it's Verne.

He does the Gazelles program.

Yep, he's good.

Cody and I are reading that because we're looking to bring on a few people here soon.

It's probably good timing for us to read that too, man, because we're hiring a handful of people.

We went from an organization of two people to an organization of about 10 in about a one month period.

But smartly, we're not smartly. Yeah, we're not scaling up too quick, very strategically. Yeah, yeah, that's a good book.

Those are some good books. I know Sam Carpenter has a book called Work the Systems. I know that's probably Work the System, that's another book that's kind of a similar book around.

That's a solid book.

Yeah, creating, you know, working procedures and all kinds of stuff for your business and you know, trying to get, get your ducks in a row a little bit before you just bring on random people and then no one knows what the hell they're doing. So.

Yeah, and it's good for selling a business too, you know, if you're going down that route.

Yeah, yeah. Building procedures.

Right on, man. That's, that's a. Yeah, I think I've read a few of those. And the stoicism. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's a, that's a good book. Just because you could read just that little bit every single day, the Daily Stoic, and get you get your head straight.

Yep, yep.

So, so this is the, the final question. Where, where do you want to send people after listening to this? Where, you know, what's your call to action for people after listening to this episode?

Yeah, so there's a couple of places I hate having more than one. But if you guys really want to. If you guys are listening to this right now and you're a coach, consultant or agency who wants to implement a completely done for you, done with you ads +evergreen webinar system in your business, go to clientmint.com that's my partner, Cody Lister and I's brand new service that we're offering. He runs millions of dollars in paid traffic. I do the webinar stuff and together we're putting together an offer to help consultants, coaches and agencies who are selling high end services actually build their actual systems with them and for them. So that's client mint dot com.

That's M I N T dot com.

Yeah, Client Mint like Mint, like moneymint dot com and that's an evergreen webinar itself. So it's just an old evergreen webinar that we put up right there. Otherwise you can check out johnschumacher.com that's my main kind of personal brand site. I have a lot of free resources and content and stuff like that on the site.

Right on, man.

Awesome.

This is solid. John. I know personally can't speak for Matt, but I'm sure he will too. I'm going to review this podcast and take some notes just to beef up our webinars and future ones, too. There's a lot of little points here to take, so appreciate it, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. And dabble. Talk soon.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Thanks so much.

See ya.

Hey, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Now, if you don't know already, myself and my partner, Joe Fear, every single week we put together this killer weekly newsletter that's completely free. If you go to theweeklyprophet.com you can get on this weekly newsletter. And what we do with this newsletter is we scour the Internet. We read every piece of content, listen to blogs post, check out new software and tools, and we distill down the best of the best into a weekly newsletter and deliver it directly to your inbox every single week. So head over to theweeklyprophet.com and make sure you're signed up to receive that weekly newsletter. You're going to love it. Thanks so much again for listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. We'll see you in the next one.