Jonathan Rivera — Treat A Podcast Like A Direct Response Marketer

This is an intro, intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Flowchart with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf. Joe Fear. Hey, what's up, everyone? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. My name is Matthew Wolff. I am here with my business partner, Joseph A. Fear. And this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast is brought to you by.

Evergreenprofits.Com Matt's doing this entire intro by himself. I'm just watching him.

He's just sitting next to me going, you're a weirdo. So today we are going to be talking about podcast. A podcast with a guy who helps people set up their podcasts.

Inception. Yeah. So the man's name is Jonathan Rivera, and he basically has been co host of numerous podcasts, some big ones as well, that you might have heard of. We'll he'll name some inside the episode here, but he has a whole podcast factory that basically kind of has this process down to a science. And we break that down inside of here with some specific examples of kind of. For one, why you should start a podcast and the whole process of, you know, not, not super into how to do a podcast, but why more of the bigger structures and how you can monetize and kind of the overall general feel of why the heck should you even do a podcast in the first place.

Yeah. And Jonathan also breaks down why he can't work with us and wouldn't allow us to work with him on podcasting. So we'll get to that story.

That's when I almost booted him off the pocket.

So we'll get to that. But let's go ahead and dive with Jonathan Rivera from the podcast factory dot com.

Hey, Jonathan, thanks for hopping on the show today with us.

Thank you for having me on for sure, man.

Well, you. I think there's a lot of selfish stuff that we'll be able to talk about today with your podcast factory and procedures and just the way that you kind of have this pretty sweet business set up for your lifestyle.

So I guess give us a quick background of. Because I know you've done some real estate stuff, you've been an electrician, you've made a lot of money, lost a lot of money, got it all back. There's a lot of cool stuff in the past. It sounds like you've kind of come up and down with. Can you kind of dig into that kind of where you started and what brought you to where you're at now?

Yeah, I think really, if we want to just focus on maybe the last few Years. And what my work over at the podcast factory, it's really just, well, you said it. Let's be selfish. Right. And so that's how the. How. That's how the podcast factory started. It was me selfishly wanting to talk to my mentors, and we recorded the conversations, put them out on the air, and we were just doing it for fun.

Yeah.

And it really. It turned into a business. I was in a mastermind. I was still working on my real estate training business, and nobody gave a crap about it. All they wanted to know was how I was podcasting with this guy and that guy and how that all worked. And about six months into that Mastermind, me and Cupcake spoke, and we're like, maybe we should be doing this podcasting thing. And so it's been about two years now that we've been doing the podcast factory full time. And like I said, by accident.

Interesting. Cupcake. I like that name.

So I know you're what, you're co host of multiple podcasts now, is that correct?

You know, I actually have been really focused on my time in the last couple years, and I cut out a lot of the fat. And so nowadays I only co host two shows, but there was a point where I was co hosting eight, and I was on like eight days a week, 365, all that stuff. But, yeah, that's behind me.

That's cool. So. So you said you got to podcast with all of your mentors and sort of. You had the opportunity to sort of pick their brain and sort of see behind the scenes of their. How did you make a lot of those connections with those people that became your mentors?

Yeah, so it wasn't so much because I'm really like, I've got a gun over here, loaded, just in case any zombies try to pick my brain. So it's not that so much as these guys helped me out a ton. And it was just thinking about how much they helped me and how could I get back to them. And it was really getting them in front of more people. And that's really how it came together. I mean, I bought products, I went to Masterminds. I would always. It's my secret to getting noticed is I buy a product and I use it and I tell the person that sold it to me, hey, this worked and I did this with it, and all of a sudden they're paying attention.

It's that simple, dude, I've done the same thing. Even if it is just a mastermind, maybe a little sentence or two that resonated with me and I tried it. We actually did this. I did this recently. Tucker Max, you know, he's popping up on the podcast and he, There was something about lifestyle. I'm like, dude, I tried that. Best $20 spent was to get my laundry done by someone else. And he was like, holy crap. Yeah. But that got his attention. And I'm like, hey, mind popping on the podcast? And he's like, hell yeah, let's do it. That was easy.

So that's cool advice, man. And I think it's something no one really talks to the product owner or they think they're out of touch. And I love it. And I like your hustling the masterminds. You're kind of making connections that way too. So I'm curious though, selfishly, again, is this whole lifestyle that you live, you're working with your wife, it seems like you travel a lot, you're on kind of like this vacation often, but you have systems, people, processes. Is that pretty much the podcast factory? Is that what that has become?

Yeah, so. And my wife is the one that fought me on this for years and now she's enjoying the benefits of the hard work. But yeah, this was always a plan. And what I gotta say is Tim Ferriss is full of crap. The many retirements, like, no, I'm just kidding. I actually got into this whole Internet thing with the Tim Ferriss four hour workweek, thinking, yeah, I want a team and I want people around the world working for me and I want to take mini retirements. I don't know how he, I can't remember how he does as many retirements. But now for us, it's like we want to travel. And so what we do, since it's me, Cupcake, and our son Huddie, he's, he's not in school yet, so, yeah, we're able to go and like in February. February was it? Yeah, January, February. We were in Utah. Five weeks, hit the mountain so hard, even though there wasn't much snow. Last year we did two of those. We did one in Utah and then we did the other one on the beach. This year I got bamboozled. And we're not doing the beach because Cupcake needs new furniture. So. But that's life. Yeah, I mean, that's it. Setting up a business for your lifestyle. So I got into this from the very beginning for two reasons. Number one, when my real estate business failed the first time and I didn't have any money, any income, I didn't have anything going on, I promised myself That A, I would rebuild it, and B, that I would hedge. And so that's really what the podcast factory is, a hedge against my real estate business, which our real estate business doing awesome right now. And the podcast factory is starting to dwarf the real estate business. And as soon as we get this thing dialed in where it doesn't need all of my attention, I'll build another hedge.

That's. That's super cool. So are they connected in any way, the podcast, or is it simply they're running kind of separate. Obviously, they're helping each other out kind of indirectly.

The. The shows that we have that we work on.

Right? Yeah.

I mean, a lot of the people know each other. I mean, that's a big part of our business is just people talking about us. Some of them in the beginning were. In fact, all of them in the beginning were because it was me on all the shows, and I had just different. I had different hosts that I was co hosting for. But nowadays, a lot of these people run in the same circles. A lot of these people are friends, but it's not like the shows join together.

Right. I'm curious about this co hosting thing, because I want to hear. I mean, obviously you're not doing as many, but you. I'm sure you made a hell of a lot of connections that way, opened a lot of doors for probably some real estate deals too, but also just other things.

Talk about how that structure works, I guess. Do you pop in, do you come up with an idea for a podcast approach, a mentor, and then say, hey, let's do a show? Or is there something some other structure to.

Has worked all different ways. I've been approached by them, I've approached them. It really depends. I. The first one. The first two. All right, so Making Agents rich was in 2013. That was like the first show that would officially be a podcast factory show using our structure. That was a guy that had helped me out just a ton in real estate, and I knew that he could help more people. So he's like, come on, we got to do this. All right, we did it. The second show that I brought on was the Ben Settle Anti Preneur show, version one of the Ben Settle podcasts. And he just put out an email, and I was on his list, and we had done some stuff together, and he's like, this year, I'm starting a podcast. I emailed him right back, and I said, I got you, baby. Let's do a podcast. He's like, yeah, all right. I know you. I know we can do this. And that was that. And then I. I kind of did have some targets, and I was like, I want to do a show. This guy with this guy. But some approached me. I approached some of them, and it just kind of came together. It was. I don't know. I just think I was lucky.

I feel like you're hacking it, though, in a good way. It's kind of like how you're connecting with your mentors. What is it like? Step one, get awareness. Buy their product, go to a mastermind, follow up with them, tell them something cool. And then if you see an opportunity, maybe it's someone you want to work with or niche to get into, hey, let's do a podcast and get to know them even further that way.

Yeah, yeah. It's really just. It's having fun. And knowing that these guys have helped me and knowing that they're the real deal and bringing them to more people gives me joy. Because these days, I'm really thinking about the legacy, the impact that we make on the world. Taking care of my family, and so not just like us here today, but the next couple generations, and taking care of our hosts and making sure they're as famous as they're supposed to be. And even more important, or maybe just as important, is taking care of our listeners, of people that tune in and improving their lives.

Now, with. With the Podcast Factory, can you kind of give us a breakdown of. Of what you do with. With the people that you're involved with in the podcast factory? Like, what if we were to hire the podcast factory to work with us on our podcast?

What.

What does that entail? What does that come with?

Well, this is going to. I'm going to be rude.

I'm okay with that.

I cannot. I cannot take you guys as clients. You already have a show, and so.

Jesus, you're off the show. Fired. Get him out of here. Just kidding.

Unless you're willing to restart. Because I just don't like taking other people's stuff. And so I have a framework from beginning to end and the way. Right. You know, in the future. And Cupcake has given me a hard time about this because I don't take shows that have already started. I start from scratch. And that's because we go through brand identity. We get the signal, clear who they're talking to so they can attract the best possible listeners, the listeners that will have money, that are affluent enough to take them up on their services. So we start all the way at the beginning, getting this core messaging straight and then building onto it. All right, now that we have the people that we're targeting, what content is going to hit with them and how do we get this content in front of them? What are the objections that we need to handle? And so everything. Before you even record one word, we're in there planning how to get people from out there in the ether to come into your world, notice you end up on your calendar and eventually be your client. And so that kind of structure I can only do if I start from scratch.

Yeah, and that makes so much sense too, because so many businesses skip over that sort of ideal client thing, and we'll just sort of take anybody who offers them money. But obviously, the smart businesses know their exact client, the exact person they want to work with, and they're hardcore about sticking to that. So, I mean, we definitely respect that because we have a very similar philosophy with a lot of the consulting type work that we do in our business. And I really think that's. That's smart to do it that way. Now, once somebody is a client, let's say they don't have a podcast, but they're thinking about starting a podcast, they come to you, what happens?

Magic.

Magic.

That's all.

They go through all those processes. We take them through two months of getting everything together, of getting the calls to action, getting the commercials, getting the packaging. We help them shine because we get dialed into their client and their message, so they go off and record. We put everything together. Then once it's all together, we go into the launch sequence that we've set up. And then after launch, then we go into upgrades and strategy. What are we trying to do with this? Is it working? Are we hitting our numbers? Are we hitting our goals? And then we adjust, and it's a lot of fun. And one of the things that I think makes us different is that we're okay with evolution. And so most people go into this podcast thing thinking that they have to be one thing forever. And the way I see it, it's an evolution. And a good example of that is if you look at the Doberman Dan show off the chain, we started out talking about marketing and interviewing marketers and all that stuff. Today we talk about life, about inner game, about all this different stuff that wouldn't have fit in the beginning, but now we've evolved to that.

No, that's. We've seen the same thing with our own show. And I feel like the type. The quality of guests might just transition to a whole nother type of realm that's connected. So you just kind of Flow with it. And obviously listening to your audience too, is a big part of it. Absolutely, yeah. So I guess walk us through.

Give us some just a little bit. So if someone's listening right now, they want to start a podcast, what are some steps if they were to try to just initially get something going themselves.

You know? So you said, is it kind of like a perfect avatar type exercise that you go through more or less to kind of figure?

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a good way. That's good marketing speak for it. Yeah. Your ideal avatar, your ideal client. You should. You should know that going into it, you should also have a plan of what exactly the podcast is supposed to do for you. And if you tell me that I'm going to get sponsors and monetize it, I'm going to shoot you. So, look, you have to have a plan. And the thing is, I wouldn't even recommend you even think about a podcast until you have a business that's just churning along and then you add the podcast as fuel to the fire, so to speak. And so, yeah, we start out with that avatar exercise and get down into their pains and their needs. And from there, what you should do is once you know who your perfect avatar is, find out or put a list together of their pains, of their joys, what moves them, and line that up with the goals that you have for your show. And that's how you come up with your content plan. And we call it over here at the podcast factory, we call it the vault of Content, Evergreen Vault of Content, because it gives you an ROI year after year. So we make the first 12 shows timeless so that they can work for you and keep pulling people into your world over and over again. And so from there, once you know who you're talking to, what you're going to say to them, then you can go into the packaging stuff with the calls to action and the COVID art and the music and all that stuff. And then you just start recording episodes and put all that together and then you go into a launch.

Interesting. So, yeah, that's cool. I guess I've never heard of that whole timeless factor. Your first episodes are timeless. You kind of have that pre planned and the launch. So talk about that really fast. So you basically pre record all that stuff, prepare all those, the artwork, music, all that fun stuff. Get it on itunes, I'm sure, get it all prepped. What's the launch look like?

Well, for the most part, it's just getting people excited because one of the biggest mistakes I see people make getting into podcasting is they think they're going to have a huge audience just because they're talking on a podcast. And I've seen it time and time again, you can put a podcast out there, nobody's going to listen unless you bring them. And so the way that it really works is that you come, you bring your audience because you've already got a business that's banging and you're adding some fuel to the fire. You bring your audience, you get them hyped up and excited about it. You get them pumped into that whole launch and plugged into that. And then from there, once that's going, that's when you can start expanding. Your audience is in the beginning, it's just going to be a tool for you to connect deeper with the audience you already have. Turn some of those people who may not have been clients yet and been on the fence, turn them into clients, then you're going to be able to fund the expansion. And that could be through your goodwill by putting those episodes out there and getting people excited and getting them to share. That could be through running ads, that could be through our work with syndication and cross pollination and all that stuff. So it's really, you start with your own audience, you get that dialed in and running and then you expand your audience from there.

I love it. Yeah, and that's, that's what I was going to ask actually is how to get the awareness. But like you said, you kind of have a business cranking already. I'm sure you have an email list, something that you can tap, some kind of audience you have control over. And then that's exactly how we started ours. Is there a list size or maybe audience size or engagement.

Percentage or whatever it is that you like to see before starting a show?

I used to think about that and used to ask people that on the application and I don't anymore. Because we've launched shows with somebody with an email list with 100 people and they've done well. And we've seen people with 10,000 email lists and nobody listens to their show because their list hasn't been cleaned. And so it's more about looking at the whole business, looking at how their sales are, looking at where they are in their business and seeing if we can actually plug them into our system and help them grow. So it's more about the momentum. They already have got it.

Now you mentioned, you know, sponsorships and how that's, you know, not the best way to go into it. You also mentioned, you know, on Our notes here, something about direct response podcasting. So I'm curious if you could kind of explain what direct response podcasting means and how do people monetize their podcast based on this sort of concept of direct response?

So the essence of direct response marketing is really the taking one step at a time. So a lot of people think selling is like hardcore. You sell right from the beginning, and direct response, you sell the next step. So to. To give you kind of a visual picture in itunes.

What you have in the beginning is a piece of COVID art. And that cover art will or will not get attention. If it gets attention, then it sells people on reading the title, and if they like that title, it sells people on clicking and then reading the description. And if they like the description, then it sells them on looking at your episode titles and. And clicking one to listen, then the music turns on and the intro comes in, and that sells them on. Are you in the right place? Is it. Is it worth your time to listen? Yes, it is. So they continue listening. Then you putting on your performance gets people engaged. All right, so each step sells the next step while you're on the show. That's where you do your selling to the next step. Go to the website and get this, or go over here and get that, or go there and do this. So each little part of it comes together. And what we call it in our framework is the client matrix, how to turn listeners into your best clients. And that's it. Looking at all the little steps that they take one step at a time, getting them to do what you want them to do.

I love it. And I'm sure there's some KPIs, I don't know if you could track everything, but do you have some KPIs, some important ones, to know if you're doing the right thing or not during each one of those steps.

Yeah, the main thing that we look at is where they are with their revenue right now, where they want to go. And another thing that we're looking at now is ease of sale. So the people that we work with are usually high ticket, at least three grand, usually five, 10, 15 grand packages. And so how easy is it to make this sale? And the whole goal of the content vault is to make it much, much easier because you're answering objections before people ever talk to you, so that when they get on with you, a lot of that stuff that you've repeated a million times, you don't have to repeat anymore. So we look for a trend, an uptick in sales, and we look to the sales team to see if they're mentioning the podcast and how much easier those sales are to close.

I love it. Yeah. So it's. It's kind of. You're creating this funnel. It's just a new. New market.

You're.

You're kind of going after in this podcast or a new medium that is.

Yeah.

Now with another angle with that sort of pipeline that you mentioned of, you know, the direct response actions that people can take. You've got, you know, finding the podcast, reading the title, seeing the image, you know, et cetera, all the way down the line. Are there any places where you find common bottlenecks where people don't tend to put as much focus as they should put?

Yeah, so really, we try to avoid that. And so we set that up in the beginning that this is what we're doing, this is how we do it. So where would the bottleneck be? I'll tell you, the real bottleneck is when they get in here gung ho, and then they get into their own heads and they're like, oh, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or I don't know about this title. So I have to play like coach to them, like, all right, snap out of it, slugger. Go get them. And, you know, the bottleneck is really, most times in people's head getting too caught up in the details. And.

Yeah.

And I remind them, look, you don't need to worry about the details. We got that handled. We're the podcast factory. We're a factory. We stamp these things out. All you have to do is follow the process. So, yeah, I would say that would be the biggest bottleneck.

I love it. I mean, I feel like that's most coaching, mentoring, anything you do. It's almost like there's like a babysitting factor to that. And not saying that is a bad thing, but they just almost have to check in with you for validation because they're just overthinking everything.

Yeah, yeah, I've had a. I have two of those right now that I had a snap out of it this week, and that's why it's like, top of mind.

That's a good question. I mean, that's. There's just so many things to podcasting, I think. I mean, Matt and I are included. We kind of jumped into. We've had a few of them now over the span of a lot of years, but the initial, what, handful, Matt, we kind of just jumped in, didn't have a total process bit Us in the ass in different ways, of course, you know, and you kind of figure it out along the way. So I love the fact that you have a framework, you have this whole process here. Someone that can just, if they want to hire you out, you just take it by the hand and go with it. Because, I mean, yeah, I could see that being. Once you get into it, you're like, holy shit, there's a lot behind here.

And yeah, I'm curious, do you. Because we did this kind of intentionally slash unintentionally, is that we kind of. Instead of focusing on other platforms like itunes, Stitcher, all that stuff to get our list or, you know, our listeners to. To come to our podcast, we kind of leverage our email list and our website more or less as the main entry point. Do you recommend one or the other or can you do both to kind of.

Yeah, I think it's super smart to focus as much attention as you can on your website because that's where the magic really does happen. That's where you're converting people, tagging them, able to. To remarket to them later on all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, I absolutely agree that you need to have your website in the mix and that's how we always launch website, email list, itunes. We do all the syndicating already because we have connections in, so our hosts don't have to think about that stuff. But yeah, I would say that if you don't have it on your website, you're making a big mistake. And also the other mistake that I see along with that is people just do one show, market it that week and don't continue. And you have all this media that you put together and you're probably not leveraging it to its fullest extent. So yeah, I would say that start from your website, get that dialed in website email list like you said, and then look for opportunities to branch out. That's the portion where we call the audience expander. Reaching out to bigger pool of prospects. We worry about that so our hosts don't have to. So we're always looking when we're able. We were able to get to SoundCloud, we were able to get to iHeartRadio. I forgot who else just opened up. We're always looking for opportunities to get them out to where their audience could be so that we bring them back to the website and the email list.

Yeah, yeah. Spotify actually just started allowing podcast Spotify.

That was the other one.

Yeah, yeah. So with the. Our biggest struggle has actually been we have actually no Problem getting people to our podcast to listen to our podcast on our website, because we've built a mailing list off our. Off our podcast, and we do a lot of retargeting with Facebook and Google display network ads. Our biggest struggle has always been getting our podcast to get attention on itunes. We've never managed to get it to climb the ranks in itunes because we've literally never even tried driving traffic to it. So do you have any advice for people that are trying to balance both, you know, grow the traffic on their website and their listeners there? But also, you know, there's the discoverability factor over in itunes, where if you kind of climb the ranks in itunes, more and more people are going to discover you. So, you know, do you have some advice on balancing that and making sure that you're capitalizing from both angles?

Yeah, don't worry about itunes. That's a simple answer. Really? No. Well, I mean, in the beginning, our launch thing was focused on getting shows to the top of IPA by. We did that relentlessly, but they froze the charts. And I have no clue how the ranking works anymore anyways. And so we've kind of. The only thing that we ever do with itunes anymore is in the beginning, in the early phase, in the honeymoon phase, we do mention to our hosts that it's probably a good idea to get some reviews. So we have one guy doing a contest to get reviews, another guy doing share to get to get reviews. But, yeah, that social proof is valuable. But, hey, I mean, if you can push traffic other ways, then why try to figure out itunes?

No, I mean, that's a very good point. And that probably wasn't the answer that Matt was looking for, but that's okay.

Damn it.

No, but I kind of, like, disappointed.

I'm kind of not, to be honest, because I fucking hate itunes, to be very honest, because, like, what you just said, you. You can't track anything. They're freezing charts. You don't know how to read their charts. Like, new and noteworthy seem like they've been stuck for like a year now.

Yes. Not that new anymore.

So, yeah, I think that's something that's good for honestly us to hear too, because I think a lot of people getting into podcaster.

Podcasters stress out over that, and they try to put all their trap tunes and we've consciously said, like, no, we're not in control of itunes. We can't do our remarketing. We can't, you know, funnel them into something else.

Yeah, I think a lot of people look at our Podcast and go, I don't get it. I don't know why you're doing that. But what they're not seeing is that behind the scenes, we're building a massive list and we're building up tons of retargeting pixels with data on what everybody's interests are, right? So our goal has always been get them to the website, because that's going to build out the retargeting pixel that's going to build our list, right? So that's always been the focus. It's just been frustrating when, you know, we could see our download numbers in Libsyn and we can.

We.

Everybody kind of tells us that they enjoy our podcast, but we don't ever see it climbing the ranks. And it's totally an ego thing. It's like, I guess, why should we really care that much?

But just let it go, Matt. Let it go.

He's having a meltdown over there.

I'm like, this is a therapy session, right? You just sit and listen, and I just talk out all of my struggles, right?

It can be, oh, wait, we're on a podcast.

To me, you guys got it right with the email list and the other scorecard, if you will. I don't even really pay attention to downloads. The scorecard for me and my clients is always, are you making more money? And I've watched clients double their businesses just by adding that fuel to the fire. And so if you're doubling your business, you go from 40,000amonth to 80,000amonth. Downloads, itunes, stats, all that crap doesn't matter because you're too busy counting your money.

I mean, yeah, what's the actual KPI you really care about? It's the money at the end of the day.

You mentioned contest on growing your social proof, though. I mean, at the end of the day, that could help you not only raise social proof in something like itunes, other platforms, but also grow your email list. Have you guys run some really cool, effective contests that we could chat about here. Maybe some cool takeaways.

Not. Not too many. The guy that's running the contest right now is Justin. Or it was a week ago, Justin from Think Digital, where he was giving away pair of AirPods for the best review. And that worked. And years ago, when we cared, Ben and I did some of those things where we do giveaways for the. We just announced it on the show and be like, hey, best review by the end of the month gets this big prize. And so all that stuff works. But if you're not. If that. I Don't know, doesn't contribute to the bottom line. So it's me. It feels like 80, 20, that, that's 80% bullshit. So let's just focus on the 20 that matters and that we can control for sure.

No, I love it. And yeah, I mean, if it can grow the list and that's why we're more interested, it's like, okay, well, yeah, maybe if it's paired up with little social proof as byproduct. But if it grows the list, obviously that brings them into your ecosystem that you can control and then kind of.

That'S where it's at, though you guys already know that. I mean, you're building an email list off of it. It's telling your email list, hey, I know you're listening to the show, go give. What are you waiting for? Get off your butt. And so that to me, what you're doing, straight to email list is the best way. And then from there, once they're in your list, then you can do all that other stuff like send them to do reviews or to your Facebook page or whatever you want to do after that.

For sure. I love it. Now, in terms of outreach, do you have any kind of tips, procedures there? I know you're on our podcast. You obviously have your own products, so it's helping you expose you to more audience. Do you tell that to other your podcast clients to do the same?

Yeah, so that's, I'm really like, right now what we're focused on, because I've been working a lot in Facebook and stuff is tying live events or not so much live, like live in person, but like Facebook lives, like do a Friday Facebook Live based on your last episode. So we're starting to work the social angle of getting people involved in the show, giving them a little touch, like, you know, touch the cape of the master here. So giving them a little sneak peek of what it would be like to work with our clients and stuff. So that's really where we've been focusing most of our energy this, this year is on creating a little kind of ecosystem and pulling live into it somewhere. Whether it's live, like a zoom webinar or a Facebook Live or YouTube Live, mixing that in with the content, tying everything in with email and doing. I call it the triple tap. And I'm not going to give you that because my clients paid a lot for it, but it's hitting them multiple times and then bringing them into a live event based off your podcast.

No, I could see that, man. And the beauty of with Live streams, which we need to do more of Matt and I. But I know you can retarget like crazy with any of these videos now, even on YouTube, obviously Facebook, and then down that path.

Yeah. And there's the. So what's fun about it is you start on the page, you can also advertise the event. And when, when the event goes and you have the video, then everybody that watches the video can be retargeted. And so it's kind of a self feeding thing, right?

Yeah. And they're weeding themselves out and then obviously you're talking to your ideal people at the end of the day.

Yeah, Love it.

Cool, man. Well, yeah. Anything else? I think that's because I've just been scribbling notes, I guess. One last thing. Any ads that you see just working the best in terms of growing the podcast. I know you said retarget like crazy. Obviously there's a reason for an ad at each stage. But in terms of, let's say, monetizing a podcast, do you have any specific ways that you can target your audience that say, like, hey, they listen to this or they visited this page. Are there any specific lead capture systems that are custom to that episode, for instance? That's kind of what we're starting to do.

Anything that stands out that you can kind of directly increase revenue based off of that episode?

Yeah, I don't think we get that granular about. It's more holistic approach, like the big picture. What we do know is that people that have listened to the show are more likely to book a call and more likely to buy. And so we focus like you guys do on building the email list, indoctrinating people, and then getting them to. For most of my clients is getting them on a call, but for other people might be getting them to the sales page or getting them to the webinar or whatever it is that. That you use to convert sales.

Cool. No, that makes sense. Whatever that end result is, get them. Just get them talking to you. So sweet, man. Well, I think that's everything. Tap my brain. I'm selfishly picked everything I could out of.

Matt. Anything over there.

I mean, is there any that, you know, you like to cover on this type of podcast that we haven't. That we haven't dove into yet or did we kind of COVID a lot of the ground that you typically like to cover?

To me, I'm just here to have fun with you guys and share the message. And if people are interested, then they can go check out all the mentors that I have accumulated at the website. But yeah, I mean, I'm happy to talk about anything you guys want to talk about.

Well, I'm curious, like what are a couple good podcast examples and they could be totally your shows, your clients that, that not only us but our listeners here can check out. Kind of get a taste of what you're describing here.

Yeah, I don't think like the only podcast I listen to is no Agenda with Adam Carolla and John C. D. And it's like a political kind of men wearing tinfoil hat kind of thing.

I think that there's a lot of different options and it's what, what suits your purp personality. Us personally, most of us just do solo shows. I like the co host format. A lot of the stuff we do doesn't involve interviews, but it just, it really, it depends on you and what you're comfortable with and what you're trying to achieve with that show.

Got it, man. No, it's good advice and cool. Well, I think that's everything here. So where can people go? Check your, your podcast factory, you know, and kind of check everything out that you're doing.

And yeah, yeah, the main place to go is the podcast factory.com thepodcastfactory.com you can get a rundown of the people we do shows with. You can get a different sampling of different types of shows. There's marketing shows, there's shows for women, believe it or not. There's shows about lifestyle. And so you can pick a show and listen. And that's really it. I mean, if you're interested in working with me, once you end up on my site, you can figure out how to get in touch with me.

Right on, man. Well, thank you, Jonathan. And yeah, go check out the podcastfactory.com and we'll see you next time.

Thank you, guys. Thanks.

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