Jordan Mederich - Level Up Your Online Funnels With This New Technology

This guy I was talking to, he said his sister has a 2 million person Instagram following and she's got about $30,000 a month coming in from that. I'm like, that's amazing. If she knew what she was doing, it'd be a million a month. Biggest advice. My best advice for anyone who is an affiliate or influencer is like, you need to be building your brand. You building your brand and not edifying or building other companies or products. It's like each one of those things are just stair steps for them to get the end result that they're looking for to either be more like you or to use the tools that you use. But the biggest thing is, man, if people follow instead of the tools that you suggest, you'll sell to them for the rest of your life instead of just flash pan things.

This is an intro.

Intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Float Shark with your boy Matt Wolf and Joe Fisk.

Hey, yo, yo, yo. It's your boy Joe.

That was good, huh? That was good. All right. So today we're going to this episode.

We nerd out on a tool that we have been using lately in a.

Small way, but there is a lot.

Of potential for this in this business of ours for so many reasons. But I don't want to make it tool focused because this episode is not just tool focus. It is focused on opportunities and how to optimize what you have. Look at these opportunities around you. This gap of opportunity concept is a big one. And being an affiliate, there's a lot of new perspectives that you'll probably learn in this episode from Jordan Mederick. So Jordan Mederick is the guest in this episode and he is the founder of dropfire Funnels. So this is actually a tool that's very unique. It's a kind of a funnel builder, page builder tool. It's a very, you know, crowded market. But you'll hear how he's doing things differently and has pivoted and has really kind of carved his own way of marketing this product and really solving the solution that no one else has really done or no one at all as far as my knowledge. And we've been using it specifically, Matt's been using it at all. He's the nerd of the business, let's just be honest there. But has been absolutely loving it. And when Matt tells me that there's no other page builder that he's loved as much as drop funnels, there's a reason to listen because the guy has.

Nerded out on many tools for the.

Last 12 plus years, probably more 15 and more. So check out Drop Funnels. You're going to hear a lot about it. But if you do decide to get it, we are affiliates and it's just going to help us support our show.

And it's just to be honest, we'll.

Just give you support and the we learn, the more we'll give you and yada yada, you get the deal. So if you go to hustleandflowchart.com dropfunnels that's hustleandflowchart.com DropFunnels. You could see what I'm talking about here and it'll probably give you a nice context of who Jordan is too, and how different this tool is, even though it might seem kind of similar.

Check it out.

But really, at the end of the day, Jordan is an amazing guy. He's very deep into just being an affiliate, but also just the perspective of.

What'S possible out there.

When you start to look at things differently in marketing business and really the trends of business and how to scale and not do it in a way where you're confused, you're going to learn a lot this episode, so make sure you also get the notes. @flowchart group.com we're taking the action guide notes for you so you don't have to go crazy trying to scribble everything down. We already did that for you. So go to flowchartgroup.com you also get access to our cool community over there. So be quick. Two weeks of this episode going live. And then also we have Ahrefs as our sponsor. And it's kind of funny, it seems like every other guest or maybe even every guest lately says Ahrefs is a key tool that they use in their business. Well, they're sponsors of our show. They have been for a long time now, and we use it in everything we do. So it's just really cool. I just wanted to kind of highlight that there are a lot of people, guests that you've had or we've had that you've listened to on this podcast. Even if they're not SEO folks, they see the power of using Ahrefs to just get more visibility on what they're doing with their content online, with their website, how they're being seen in the search engines and all these other places. So go check out Ahrefs.

There's a lot of tutorials.

There's so many ways to use it. Over@ahrefs.com that's a hrefs.com. that's a h r e f s.com and you can check it out. They have a $7. Seven day trial that gets you full access to all the goods, so might as well try it out.

All right.

Ahrefs.com all the good stuff. All right, let's go over to Jordan. Strap in. This is going to be a great conversation.

Let's roll. All right, Jordan, we are live, my friend. How you doing?

I am so happy today. It's the best day ever.

I know because you blocked the whole day off, right?

I did.

By total accent. But it's beautiful. I feel like free as a bird.

That's always like, you're welcome. You can take some naps now. You can just, you know, not really much.

I'm not going to lie to you. I actually, and no one knows this, you guys are the first people to ever hear this. I have about a 3,000 square foot office here. It's like stupid big. It's way too big. But I have a closet there that's like super dark and comfortable sleeping bag. And I'll actually go in there and.

Awesome.

It's the best.

Oh, man.

Thank you for sharing that. Hopefully your wife never finds this episode.

Oh, man.

You come home from work at like, you know, way late and you're like, what happened? Oh, I overslept. What?

Nine o'.

Clock.

Little does she know, I don't actually have a job.

So bills are paid somehow. That's cool. Well, it's nice to meet. I mean, we just met, which is rad. And you gotta give a shout out to Mr. Bryant, George. He's always hooking it up with the cool people. So it's cool to meet you. And we've been using your product or Matt has actually drop funnels and well, you tell him what you know, tell the listeners what you told Jordan about.

Yeah, so I've been using drop funnels, my mattwolf.com website that I literally just started building. I figured I'm gonna test a new product for that one. This was before George Bryant introduced us and I hadn't heard of drop funnels. And I'm trying to remember. Oh, wait, I do know how I came across it. Bob Serling, he was thinking about using it and he was like, hey, Matt, have you used drop funnels? Because I'm, I'm kind of the guy that people go to to ask about tools. I test everything, I play with everything. I like. I know every tool that exists and I've probably tried it. So he asked me if I've heard of drop funnels and that was my first hearing of it. So I went, no, but I'm going to go check it out. They've got a trial, so let's go see. So I signed up for drop funnels and set it up on my matt wolff.com website. And as far as like the actual page builders, I think it's the best one I've seen as far as like the functionality and getting things exactly in place and lined up the way I want and doing all the, you know, just. It's been the easiest to sort of dial in the look of the, of the website, of any of the ones that I've played with so far.

Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that. It's, it's been, we're still breaking a lot of stuff, but it's, it's gotten, I think, a lot of high level att, primarily because we're just kind of redefining a market, so to speak. Like, it's, we're in what was kind of a red ocean, and now we're redefining that to create our own blue ocean in a different way for a more elite experience for people that are looking for that.

I'm curious to hear what that's going to be like. Let's say that for a little later on. But. Yeah. How you're differentiating yourself from the monsters out there that will say.

Yeah. Well, let's dive into your backstory a little bit. You mentioned before we hit record that before drop funnels, you used to do a lot of affiliate marketing stuff. So let's, let's kind of, let's go through the story a little bit. What were you doing before drop funnels and how did you get into the marketing world? And let's, let's sort of dissect that a little bit. Yeah.

I feel like most entrepreneurs fall into it kind of by mistake or it finds you that type of thing. It's like. So my first soiree into entrepreneurship was like I offered to spray paint the numbers on people's houses, like for their, for their house on the curb with like glow in the dark paint. And which I thought was this great idea was like a dollar per number or whatever it was and passed it all around town. I got zero buyers. And so I realized, okay, I need to learn marketing and sales. I was like eight. Okay, so quit beating me up. All right?

I love the idea.

Yeah. So I thought that was genius, but no one wanted it. But anyway, what it was is that I kind of got hooked on that bug, it's like, man, why can't we really just bring any idea to life and share that with people? And that really creates this amazing environment where anything is possible for you. So I think ideas are like belly buttons, right? There's too many ideas and not enough people actually bringing them to life. So that's really brought me up to what I call my 21 jobs. I've had like 21 jobs and each one has kind of built on top of the previous to make it. So I've actually been a filmmaker by trade, had a film up on Amazon prime and we've been seeing on Netflix and CBS and NBC and kind of had a more media based area there. But I was doing what I didn't even know was affiliate marketing. Back when I was doing it, I was referring products to other people, like softwares and that kind of stuff and tools and even like bringing in clients for other people and you can get a fee for that. And so what I found is that just by standing in what I call that gap of opportunity of hey, these people have something that's great. I don't want to redefine it and build it or figure out any of that stuff. And I know that people need that. How can I just connect those dots? And I didn't even know it was called affiliate marketing, you know, when I was a kid. But then I grew up into learning, you know, digital marketing and finding out what an opt in page is and what is a list. What does a list mean? You know, how does that work and how do you engage people? And I think my first direct response product ever was a product by Dave D. Because I was, I was a magician as a kid and got to track traveling around the United States, doing like doing shows for like corporate events and that kind of stuff. And it was a really cool way of giving like an experience to a large crowd and so controlling their psychology for a point in time. And had crowds into the thousands. And when they're all staring at you like this, you realize, holy cow, I can control people's thoughts and behaviors and.

Kind of freaky at the same time.

Yeah, it's like you have this level of control and you realize, I realized, okay, I can only do that on that scale, but to do it bigger, you have to move online. Right. So I was buying products from like Dave D. And I was, I was mesmerized. He was a magician too about how he wrote copy, about how he went about like stacking this offer. He'd have like this hundred dollar course and it's like, holy crap, already, that's amazing. But also there's this. Oh, and there's this and there's this. And it was like I was the audience in his show and I realized anyone selling anything, it doesn't matter if it's your product or if it's an affiliate product. Often affiliates sell it better than the person itself, than the company itself. Because maybe they're stuck in the veil of ignorance. Right. They're just selling their own, their own stuff to fulfillment. They're building affiliates. The only thing you have to be good at is sales.

That's right.

That's it. And it forces you to focus on that. So I was part of a couple groups that did some high ticket affiliate stuff and I think we did like 30 million and in like five years or something like that.

And then I realized just like I've learned that a lot of the top name marketers, they started in, sometimes it's network marketing or affiliate marketing, depends. But they end up kind of ascending from that and realizing, wow, if I can sell the heck out of someone else's stuff, I can really sell my own stuff and keep 100% of it. So that seems to be that, that trajectory a little bit.

But I think it's seriously, for most people who want to get into digital marketing or entrepreneurship, the quickest, least path of resistance way to get into it is sell someone else's thing. Because you don't have to invent it, you don't have to validate it, you just sell it. That's your job.

Yeah.

What kind of products were you selling and what would you say is like a high ticket offer?

Yeah. So.

Embarrassingly enough, I would sell like $50 software stuff, almost like what would be now considered like clickbank type stuff.

Right.

Like just random offers to people. The high ticket. I define high ticket as anything over $1,000. So we were selling like high ticket, like coaching and consulting stuff at the time. And I was actually just kind of a minion hired in by this big team. So don't think like I earned 30 million personally. I did not.

But you're seeing everything happening.

Yeah.

For two years I literally didn't know like what a funnel was. Like, I didn't understand it. It took me that long because I was making all their videos and coming from a filmmaker's background and they didn't even know. Part of the story was I was in, literally I was in low income housing in Branson, Missouri. I was paying like 450amonth. Government subsidized, making about 950 an hour at a local TV station, doing all that stuff. And was freshly married. And it was just like, is this really what the world has for me? Right. And so all those, like, side hustles and things you try to do, I was like, man, I really gotta go all into something. So this group hired me on to make their videos. And it was like drinking through a fire hose of information of like, what is an opt in page? What is a sales page? Why do you sell it for $37? What a weird number. And what is an ascension model? How does that work? And so I was literally shooting green screen videos. If you saw them now, they're super laughable. But these green screen videos in my closet, and they thought that I was like an agency. They thought There was like 10 people on board.

I love it. We've been there too, man. And I both in front. I'm picturing it now.

Yeah.

Although I'm sure we thought it looked better than other people. Of course.

We all thought. Yeah. Back then I thought it was beautiful. But they really did convert because I was just good at storytelling and I would tell stories through that. And I. And they would. People would. They saw some really great conversions. So they hired my agency for $8,000 a month.

Hello.

And so I went from like two grand a month to 8,000. I celebrated at Ruby Tuesday because that's what I thought celebrating was all about.

It's going big.

So I really crushed it. And that's why I realized, holy cow. Like, what I thought was the path for me and the way that the world wanted me to go in the traditional sense was just not for me. Like, I'm the world's worst employee. Like, I can follow rules and I can follow structures, but I had. I had to get more from it. I wanted more.

This is like your paradigm shift, essentially.

Huge pickup moment for me. And so getting that first kind of retainer client at eight grand. And was that with. With them for several years until I broke off on my own, man. It was just like. It was a PhD through experience of constant failures, a few successes here and there, and there's. And they were all doing affiliate marketing too, so it was. It was really amazing.

Would you say some of that goes.

To just being able to see more, like, what's happening with different offers, testing different things and because, like, if you're just trying to do your own product, you're kind of siloed a little bit. You have, like, tunnel vision, more or less, and you can kind of apply something from over here to this offer and see if it works. So even more education.

I think the best thing anyone can do if they can, is like literally just get chewed up alive by going to work for someone big who has it figured out. And I mean one, one group. I actually worked for free for three months just to learn. I was like, I'm really good at copywriting and videos. I was like, I'll build your stuff for three months just to get into the environment. And then ended up being accelerated into a partner in that. In that same business, like an equity partner into that just from putting in my chops and getting.

So, yeah, I think if anyone is. If you're not going to be doing your own stuff or just, you know, you really want to accelerate, jump deep into the pond and start working inside of a team where you're going to get exposed to like a bigger mindset, way more opportunity. And you see not necessarily what people teach, but what do they do on a daily basis. Right. Like they'll teach one thing in their courses, but it's like, what time do they show up? What's the first thing they do in the morning? What do they really focus on? What numbers actually make sense and all.

Those things processes, the routine.

Oh yeah, all that split tests and like traffic sources and understanding indoctrination, email sequences, you know, so there's a lot to learn. The fastest way is just to dive in really deep.

Yeah. So along that journey, I mean, there are a couple of things you said actually is the gap of opportunity. I thought that was pretty fascinating too. Thinking yourself as an affiliate at a younger age, you found a gap of opportunity just connecting people or connecting an audience to a product. As an affiliate, talking about the learning and all that stuff, that's just a great way to kind of expand what you're seeing in the. Just ways to actually create these different streams of income as well while you're starting out, like you were saying.

Yeah. And I think really one of the biggest things, I think that affiliates or influencers or anyone, I guess I'll put it in story from this guy I was talking to. He said his sister has a 2 million person Instagram following and she's got about $30,000 a month coming in from that. I'm like, that's amazing. If she knew what she was doing, it'd be a million a month. Right. Even through affiliate products. Because she's just doing that, like, hey, here's some makeup that I like, go buy it. Right? And it's like if you can get 30k off of 2 million, you are. And that's great, like, congrats, that's amazing. But if she really dove into these principles of building an audience, building a list, being omnipresent, she's already started into understanding that gap, right? Which is that there are brands that she loves and she has the audience making more offers and more higher and higher ticket offers and continual residual offers for that matter. She's in the gap right there of opportunity and finding out your exact zone. So I think really the biggest, my biggest advice, my best advice for anyone who is an affiliate or influencer is like, you need to be building your brand, right? Because just buying software, they can get that from anyone, they can buy it anywhere. But when they know like and trust you, you building your brand and not edifying or building other companies or products, it's like each one of those things are just stair steps for them to get the end result that they're looking for. To either be more like you or to use the tools that you use. But the biggest thing is, man, if people follow you instead of the tools that you suggest, you'll sell to them for the rest of your life instead of just flash pan things.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the things that we here. So, you know, as Joe mentioned, where affiliate marketing represents probably 80% of our income right now. And the reason that we've been so successful with affiliate marketing is we built an audience with a podcast, we've built a large email list, we've built a large following on Facebook, Instagram, all of these places. And that allows us to go and talk to product creators like you and generate affiliate commissions off of the products that we talk about. And had we not built this podcast in this audience and all these platforms, you know, we would have really no system to be promoting affiliate products right now. So, you know, I couldn't agree more as far as the audience building is the sort of key ingredient there. But I want to ask you, and I want to sort of fast forward a little bit, how did you transition into the SaaS world? What was the sort of motivation to go, okay, this is the sort of new frontier I want to venture into, and this is the type of product I want to create. Because when it comes to page builders, you know, like you sort of alluded to, it is a little bit of a red ocean when it comes to page builders. So why software and why this specific type of software?

Yeah, I think only a lunatic would dive into such a red Ocean as we did. Right. Anything surrounding websites or like because you're competing against Squarespace and wix and these huge massive platforms, but we happen to be in this. I've always felt that you really don't need to reinvent the category to redefine a niche. So you don't have to reinvent a category to redefine a niche. So here's what I mean by that. I was on other. Like there's lots of softwares for like sales funnel builders and whatnot. So we would. I was on those platforms and doing okay, but I found that there was this can kind of get really boring. So anyone who's like listening, just trust me, it's going to get more interesting in a second. But when you dive into and like money is numbers. So you have to know numbers and you have to know metrics. So I was diving into the metrics and found that there was this huge data attribution lost or attrition between ads to the landing pages. And we'd be getting 100 clicks here, but only 40 clicks land to the page. I was on the largest current category leader of sales funnel builders, but I found that there were so many issues around page speed. None of my stuff was ranking. There was huge attrition between my ads to my landing page visitors. So I was actually paying two to three times what I thought I was paying for leads. If you're getting a $2 lead, right, that, that could have cost less than that if you, if more people got to your page in time, especially for mobile traffic, it's huge. So there's all these issues. And prior to that I was building on WordPress. So WordPress powers 34% of the entire Internet. It's Google's number one preferred platform for ranking. It's very fast, infinitely scalable open source. And so I knew these two things to be true. One is that no matter what period, sales funnels have been around since the early 1900s. Sales funnels and sales funnel psychology of taking people one step at a time through a sales process is the way to sell more stuff, period. Psychologically, that is the case, but from a tech perspective, Google, Facebook, YouTube, every ad platform and search engine on the planet favors WordPress. But these two things were never connected. So people have added plugins and all that stuff. WordPress is extremely technical. You have to have developers and programmers and all these things. So you're stuck between a bad platform but good psychology or a great platform with no psychology and good luck. It's expensive. And so I realized Wait a second, I need to come. If no one else is going to do this, I need to do this. So I hired five full time developers, bootstrapped it and started to want to build my dream, my own dream system to solve my problem. And even back then I was doing some affiliate stuff, so there's actually features in there that is kind of an Easter egg to my, an homage to my affiliate marketing days that there's like a link tracker built in that's meant for affiliate tracking. So kind of like a click magic type of thing. And, and then I realized I just need to eliminate one by one all the issues that people have with using WordPress, which is the only reason people shouldn't, that they aren't using WordPress right now and why they're on sales funnel builders to get them off of that. So that now when people are jumping in from click funnels, Kartra, kajabi, any of those things, now you have everything in one on WordPress, your sales funnels can rank. You have everything all in one, unlimited funnels, courses, link tracking pages, your blog, your home site. And because it's built on WordPress, you have cheaper traffic from every ad network. Your sales funnels and content all kind of rank in synchronicity. And your pages load exceptionally fast. So your conversions, we've seen people, it depends on your offer, but conversion increases between 30 to 50% because the page load speed is so much faster. Amazon found that for every 100 milliseconds of latency, their conversions could drop 7 to 10%.

Wild. And you know, yeah, trust their testing because they're doing the most Amazon.

Right? Yeah, so and some of these sales funnel builders, they were at, you know, 20 seconds, 25 seconds, 30 seconds for a page load speed test. It's completely, it's no longer like a luxury, it is a necessity. You have to have fast pages if you're doing any marketing online, period. So we knew we could get that with a WordPress based infrastructure but with none of the tech. So that was the goal.

I love it because I think my biggest headache with WordPress, almost everything we're doing right now is running on WordPress. And my biggest headache is every single day that I log into WordPress, at least three of my plugins need to be updated. And it bugs the crap out of me because like every day, every. Well, because we've got I think maybe 20 plugins running at any given time and they're constantly updating and I think every day at least three of them need to be Updated and it bugs me because it'll be like I'll notice it at, you know, 11:00am on a Tuesday. And I don't want to update them because I don't want my site to go into maintenance mode right at that time because I know this is sort of a peak hour that the most traffic is coming to our site. So I don't want to go update these plugins right in the middle of my day. And that is probably my biggest headache with WordPress right now. And I noticed when I got into Drop funnels and used Drop funnels, first of all, you can't really go and just grab any random plugin and install it. It seems like you have sort of this closed system where you're gonna make sure only the plugins that are gonna keep your site running fast and smoothly are allowed to be installed on the site. And then second of all, I've never seen a notification that I need to update any plugins when I log into Drop funnels.

Yeah. And that these are just examples of all the things that bugged me for years and years. Was all that like which host is the best, which plugins are the best, which conflicts are you going to have if you want a new feature? Like you got to add a new plugin and hope it's compatible. Right. And then every new update could bring your site down. Right. So if you've got a full time dev team, that's great, but for the average user it's not acceptable. It just isn't. So that's what I mean by redefining a niche, is that we aren't redefining the sales funnel category, we're redefining the WordPress niche, meaning that we're giving people access to WordPress that previously would have no ability or understanding of how it can work and how it can benefit them because it's just far too technical but without losing the benefit.

So basically, in short, yeah, Drop Funnels is taking care of the hosting and they essentially you have built upon WordPress in a way where they don't need to access anything that they're used to seeing in a WordPress site. It's got your UI or user experience kind of laid over the whole thing.

But it's also familiar at the same time. If you use WordPress it still feels familiar when you're inside of drop funnels, there's like kind of a new skin over the top, but it feels like you're in WordPress still.

Yeah. So we made things larger in sense. So like things are easier to find and to click like once you kind of orient yourself. But yeah, you don't need a membership plugin like access ally. Like Mike Dillard, for example, we rebuilt his entire infrastructure. He spent half a million dollars building. And he started as an affiliate too, big time affiliate. And so he spent half a million dollars building his stuff hard coded into WordPress. Now every user gets it into drop funnels now no plugins at all. So yeah, you have that. But you don't have to worry about security or hosting or support or maintenance or plugins or themes or any of that. But it's like, how do we eliminate the barriers to getting people to market? And sometimes, I'll be honest, guys, it exposes people's weaknesses really quickly. Interesting, because you realize if all I have to do is launch my offer and drag out a checkout page, you realize, okay, I need to have something to sell.

Good point.

I have to have an offer, right?

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Did you run into any like, any major challenges that you learned some big lessons from in the process of developing? You know, maybe through the, the course of hiring and wireframing and all the stuff that comes with developing a SaaS? What are some of the hurdles you ran into and the lessons from them?

Oh, every day. I mean, I'm in the mode of fast forward failing. Like we try to fail every day and break stuff because we're doing things WordPress has never been meant to do really.

Or really any platform to build as much value in as we're looking to do.

But yeah, I'd say from a personal perspective, it's made me get more technical because I'm not exactly. I'm not a coder, I'm not any of that. Right. From a team perspective, it's taught me the value of finding really good people. We've got about 20 people on staff now and from like a solopreneur affiliate marketer to being the CEO of a SaaS company, like it's exposed my weaknesses and made me up level, not dive deep into the weeds of like the minutia. Like I have to be able to delegate things and give tasks to people.

That's the toughest part.

Yeah, you pretty quickly figure out which things you are the bottleneck for your business.

Dude, we took a trip to Disney World with my family and we actually made more money when I was gone than when I was here. So I'm like, I should just not be involved anymore.

I saw that picture too. Congrats, by the way. Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

I saw that Trip. I was like, jealous. I was like, ah, Disneyland. The one over here is closed still. But the fact is you let go and, yeah, let the team do the, the magic.

Yeah. And you know, we've got an amazing dev team, so they are constantly solving the world's biggest problems and creating new features. Just for example, this week, actually, I guess a couple weeks ago, people were saying, hey, I really want my order forms to have multiple variations. So, like, if I have a T shirt, I want to sell a medium or a large and they can pick that size. So like, okay, let's just build it in. So we built it in and launched it. Or they're like, hey, I want to sell a subscription to a membership or a pay in full discount. Okay, let's build it in. So every feature has come directly from our Facebook group, believe it or not. So people, maybe even if they aren't aware, they'll ask for something and then I'll secretly add it to a list, build it, and then a couple weeks later be like, hey, guys, here it is.

And people, the best form of marketing right there. We list some rabid fans too, I'm sure.

Yeah. So do you. How do you source developers? Because we deal with a lot of SaaS companies, we actually consult and advise a few SaaS companies as well. And one of the toughest things for a lot of people that we work with is finding good people. One of the companies we work with has gone through like four or five developers already in just like three months trying to find the best developer. Another one of our teams that we're working with is trying to expand development on that product, but they're having a hard time finding a good source to go to for developers. So I'm just kind of curious, where do you source them from?

Yeah. So I'll give you the broccoli in the chocolate. How about that? So.

I firmly believe that perfect talent isn't found, it's created. So everyone who works for me now on the team came from the community and they were just. Actually, almost all of them were affiliate marketers. In fact, a lot of them do affiliate stuff on the side. But I saw the talent. I saw a gem in them. Like they'd be rising up and really helping people. Great. You're great for support. Or they'd be systemizing a funnel I might have built. I'm like, what? You'd be great for ops? So jump into ops and all these things. So I really believe hiring from within is big and, like, people will only be about. I think 60 to 80% of what you are.

Right.

Ever. And they start at about 40. So it's up to you how much up to your scale and expectations that they become. And that's based on you as a leader. Like, are you going to train them, help them to get where you want them to become. We've got VAs in the Philippines that are incredible. They're extremely well paid, primarily because they started small and we just trained them into learning the system and now they just pop stuff out. So it was an investment in growing our teams and whatnot. And I've not in a year lost a single team member, which is amazing. In fact, we just keep adding more people because we really have a great culture and I think that's what helps people to thrive. So that's kind of like the broccoli, right? So here's the chocolate side of things is that I do really. My secret weapon has been. I've been. I've had one specific development team who's really, really incredible. They're based out of India. But when we say that people like, oh, no, those people are. No, it's another example of training people to be great and they will be great for you. So in certain cases I'll like bring. If people, if it's a really good fit, can refer them to them. But I don't even tell people publicly who we have because it's.

You don't have to.

But again, I think the biggest, the biggest point is that we've really grown together. Like, you don't just find the perfect team, you create the perfect team.

Yeah.

And so it's been a process of them knowing their, you know, knowing what they know and then me raising the standard of development and processes and whatnot. So if people want to connect with me and they, you know, they really need some help, I could probably connect them to the team. They do a lot of projects. But yeah, I think the mindset of finding the perfect developer is just kind of a myth and people should just.

It's.

People think differently.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Well, I think I'd like to go into some of your thoughts behind sales funnels and just funnels in general, because I know that's, you know, that's everything. You mentioned that earlier as well. And if we could just talk about that, then we can probably lump into drop funnels a little bit some of those cool features and how someone can create something. Because you were saying you can almost get the thing created faster than actually making the thing. So kind of curious, your perspective of sales funnels, why they're important and how you kind of see them in the whole process of an online business or affiliate marketing.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And so first of all, I'd say as I mentioned earlier, the everyone should just pick the tool that's best for them, right? So drop funnels is not for everybody, period. There is no tool that's for everybody and you just need to vet whichever one's going to fit within your, within your realm and the things that you need. But as far as like sales funnel builders are concerned, drop funnels really does make it very simple and gives you a lot of the benefit without the headache. But specifically we do it in kind of a way that others aren't. I really believe in simplicity.

And I see a lot of people coming from the group and they hear out in the market that you're one funnel away and you just need to make a lead magnet to a dollar seven to a dollar 97 to a one 97. And I'm like, guys, it's a race to the bottom. You're just kind of for most people, unless you have a massive ad budget or you're financially backed, don't waste your time on really complicated, expensive, time consuming funnels. In fact, I believe and teach this model. The CEO of Rakuten, his name is Mikitani, teaches this concept of the rule of 3 and 10, which is that every system that you have will be broken in multiples of threes and tens. So for example, you can hit 3k a month kind of by accident. Like that can just happen. But you don't really hit 10k per month consistently on accident. You have to have some systems. You have to have something in place.

For something to be replicated over and over and over. So you have a little system, but you'll Never extend beyond 10k per month to hit 30 unless you have probably a really good higher ticket offer or massive scale to get to that point. And I firmly believe that everyone with a solid 3 or 5k offer something like that. It depends on your, your, on your market or what you're doing. You can hit 30k with organic traffic just by yourself managing it yourself with just solving one problem for people and closing that on a phone call. And we see that happen time and time again with no sales funnels, nothing but a calendly booking link. That's it. Get them on your calendar, solve their problem, charge them to do it and.

See, that's a sales funnel. And that's what I was trying to relate to as you said in early 1900s, that's when the funnel was developed. But it's just exactly what you said. But prior to calendly.

Yeah, back then SEO was guys yelling step right up, step right up.

So like stuff is reinvented but nothing's new. There is nothing new under the sun.

Right.

I think it was St. Elmo Elias I think was the guy's name. But it was. Yes, from the early 1900s, he invented the concept in psychology of a sales funnel. And it wasn't like Russell Brunson or click Funnels or any of these SaaS products, but they just redefined it in a digital age.

That's the mechanism.

Yeah, yeah, it's a mechanism. Right. So I always tell people like focus on the core offer. Like how do you create something that is irresistible to people? Because when you do that, it's not hard to sell. People will beg you to buy it. In fact.

There'S no objection to it because you're just guiding people to a solution that they've wanted anyway. And you don't need fancy funnels, you don't need ads, you don't need massive scaled teams to do that. Once you surpass about 30k, you'll need probably some VAs, you'll need some fulfillment teams. You might be running some cold ads for additional lead generation and whatnot, but by that point you can afford it because you have the cash flow to do so. So I always like to teach, funnels are about a sequence, right? And just drop the ego and be willing to know where you are in that sequence. If you're under 10k a month consistently, it's all about sales. That's the only thing that matters is sales. Get sales dialed in up to 30k is systems and sales getting people built into a pipeline and continually working on marketing and sales at the same time. Right up to 100k is sales team and fulfillment teams continually working on sales up to 300k. You are effectively off your own sales calls and you have sales teams selling for you and you're the CEO working on your business instead of in your business. And by the way, this is the same format whether you're selling affiliate products, you're selling your own stuff. It's relevant across the board. Yeah, across the board. Like these revenue limits and these things, people see it happen time and time again, right?

Yeah, I think I've read this before, a variation of it. But I love how specific this is and how every entrepreneur, business owner can apply this wherever they're at. And hardest thing is getting the ego out of the way and dropping some stuff that you maybe shouldn't be doing anymore to scale and grow.

A great book on this topic is Ready, Fire, Aim by Michael Masterson. Mark Ford. Yeah, like it kind of breaks down each of these sort of levels of when you're making this much, this is what you should be focused on. When you're making this much, this is what you should be focused on. Really, really good book on the topic.

And that's by the way, really hard.

To look at that.

Like, wait, he's telling me to focus on sales. I don't want, I want to build a website and start blogging and a YouTube channel and all that. Right. And it's like you. Only I love the vision of like a bison when a storm is coming. They always head into the storm because they know they'll get out sooner.

Yeah, man.

Don't try to circumvent it or stay put. And it's only clear how you got out when you look back. So when I look back and I'm like, holy cow, I could have hit 100k months sooner if I would have just listened to that advice and done what I was supposed to do. Right.

And that's really hard short term, long term thinking too. You know, two decisions like, like take the one that's probably gonna hurt a little upfront because in the long run probably gonna be better off. Yeah, it's tough to do.

Get comfortable being uncomfortable. Yeah.

There's something that you said before we hit record that I wanna actually revisit on the recording. And that was you were talking about how a lot of Facebook ads are getting shut down right now and a lot of people are struggling to figure out why their ads are getting shut down. They're just logging in one day and hey, your account's been shut down. Can you talk about that for a little bit for a second and kind of give us some insights into why you believe that's happening to people?

Yeah. And this is a super controversial topic and I'm going to be really over generalized. And some people say, hey, that's not true. But let me give that preface that not all rules are universal.

Right.

Things can have. People can have different cases and different situations. Right. So there's a couple layers of the Facebook ad platform that's critical to understand. Number one.

They don't care about you. And if the sooner you recognize that the better. Because then you realize they don't owe you anything and they'll never bend over backwards to take your money because they've got plenty of it. The only thing that matters to them is number two is that their product is their product and you are buying it. So whenever you are advertising, you're not buying eyeballs on your website, right? Even if that's the campaign objective, you are buying buyers is what you're doing. And so the platform itself of Facebook is incentivized to make their user experience perfect, right? That is their number one goal and objective. So here's what's happening and it happens to be very prevalent on click funnels because they're one of the market leaders and a lot of people are using those. There's two levels to ad account shutdown specifically. Like you could actually just be uncompliant, right? Your stuff is bad, they don't want it on the platform. There's that and that's been around for forever. But there's an underlying aspect of that that very few marketers are aware of, which is the actual code base that your pages are on affects whether or not they want you on their platform. So specific to clickfunnels, but there are some other platforms that do it similarly. Their actual URL structure, like when you get an account there, you get all these domains and everything, it sounds perfect, but it's an actual URL redirect in the eyes of Facebook. And this has come directly from.

Multiple million dollar advertising agencies per month that they're spending. And they see it time and time again. Some of the biggest names I can mention here, but again, almost everyone would see it if they're actually advertising, is that the URL is a redirect which is the same as circumventing Facebook's terms and conditions. So dropping all the nerd talk here, if you are using that URL structure, your Pages are loading slow, bad user engagement, they will flag you for that. Your actual code base in your, the actual link you're sending them to, Facebook sees that as a redirect and that's a black hat marketing tactic that they don't want on their platform, right? They are targeting these users specifically because of that. And we've seen crazy compliant offers, super clean like chiropractor adjustment offers, but they're on a platform like clickfunnels with this redirect issue, slow pages and no domain reputation because it's a redirect. By the way, Facebook looks at all of these things in the algorithm to gauge your legitimacy and your authenticity as well as like footer links and all those types of things.

They look at your stuff and realize, do we actually want these people here. Is it worth taking their money and having the risk of our users having a bad experience or getting gypped and ripped off because of redirects? And so even clean offers are getting shut down. Like they've been running for months and they're just now starting to target this very specifically. We've seen it on hundreds of accounts, tons of, of Facebook ad groups on Facebook and everything. Everyone is seeing it. And the big leaders are saying time and time again, this is the constant. There's a lot of variables, but the one constant is the platform that you're on will determine whether or not you survive. It's almost like the sharpness of your knife on a survival situation. So again, I can't say that people on drop funnels will never get shut down because that's not the case either. But I have not yet heard of a single person getting shut down since they've been on the platform after switching. In fact, some people switch and they get their ads reapproved after making the switch.

Yeah. So it's more likely if you're on drop funnels and you get shut down. Your copy probably has some issues. More so than your sort of technical structure has issues.

Yeah. Because it's not the speed of your pages, it's not the compliance of the URL structure, it's not the tech. That's the problem. You probably don't have. Like you might have a. For example, there's this thing called a video fake out. It's like a non functional video. If you have a video and they have to opt in to watch it, they'll block you for that. They don't want that.

There's another thing called a web of trust score. You can go to web of trust.com I think it is, and it's one of the top 10 things that Facebook is looking at is do you have a domain reputation which has to exist. And if you have a web of trust score of zero, they take that into account as to whether or not to flag you. Right. So it's all these things.

Well, it's interesting too because all the reasons you just said like slow loading speed, page load time and redirects, it doesn't bode well for SEO as well for Google and the search engines. So it's kind of a negative on that front as well. So you can't run paid traffic effectively and then you have the organic traffic is probably not happening because I know you're big on also optimizing these, these funnel pages for ranking Those as well. Right?

Yeah, so. And by the way, my stance is not about like you have to be on drop funnels. I am saying you have to be on WordPress period. You have to be on a WordPress based infrastructure no matter what, get off any other platform you're on. And because you can actually start to rank when you're on WordPress straight from Google, they said it's 80. It solves 80 to 90% of the indexing issues that they have by default. So even if you do nothing, you can rank twice as fast as any other platform on the planet.

So that's like get rid of square, get out and get out of wix. I know some listeners are on that, so I'm shouting that out right now to you.

If it's not WordPress, it's either WordPress or not. That's the decision. So here's the example as I was talking to someone who's they've done, she's done millions. She's really well edified in the marketing spaces and whatnot. She was on a big sales funnel builder platform. She had a threat. One of her customers mentioned hey, I'm gonna like didn't like the plot, the program or whatever it was and said I'm gonna write a negative review. She had been around for years. They went onto their blog and wrote a negative review and outranked her on day one. And she's been around for years. Can you imagine that one negative review beats you in the search engine.

That's sad. I mean that's not good and but this is just great sounding for affiliate marketers too because you have all any kind of page around an affiliate product based off if you have all your keywords dialed in now you have the best of both sides, paid traffic if it's compliant and then of course ranking as well.

Yeah, I mean imagine if your sales funnels could rank. I mean right when people are searching for a solution, they don't find a corporate site, they find your sales funnel.

Yeah, just in time at learning conversion into join your email list or whatever.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, let's go ahead and deep dive further into drop funnels then.

What are some of the features that you're most excited to talk about and share? Like what's the stuff when somebody says, well what's different about drop funnels? What's the stuff that you just light up and start telling people about it?

Yeah, you know what for? I don't want to get too nerdy but I'm sure there's plenty of Nerds here who get really excited about this stuff too.

We're good.

That's me.

Yeah.

You'Re catering to me.

So everything that I build into it, I'm a very active CEO, so I'm right in the Facebook group listening to what people are asking for and what they need and what they're struggling with, building in new features to solve that. And so what I really love is that almost anything you can imagine, you can build. So, for example, say that you are teaching piano lessons or something, and you've got three different courses.

A 101, a 102 and a 103 class or whatever. You can decide, hey, I want to.

Have a website called learningpiano.com and then I'm going to have one major button that links directly so that major page can rank in the search engines. Right. That's my main authority site that can link directly to my registration page that I can sell one, two or all three of those courses and dependent on what that person buys, will only get access to those once they log in. So they get access. They buy it. They get access to that either through maybe an annual subscription or a monthly subscription, whatever you want to do there. You can add a coupon code to give like a flash sale for things, and that's all built in. And then they log in to this course archive, it's what we call our advanced membership. And they'll see this index of courses and you'll see 101-211-101102 and 103. And then say they didn't buy 103. While they click on that. They don't get access to it. But you can sell that. Right? They click on it, it's blocked. But then it could say, hey, you might be missing this course. Go add this to your order. And so it's like all just kind.

Of process in that sense too.

Yeah. So even if you don't get the sale now, you can get it kind of later on.

There's a link tracker kind of built in, which is really cool. So for example, if we had say it's joeandmat.com was your main site and you wanted to have. This is where my affiliate marketing site came out. Is that when I send people to an affiliate link, I don't want to send them to calendly.com affiliate link 12457.

Right, right, right.

It's not very pretty. So I built in a tracker that I could say joeandmatt.com dropfunnels would be your drop funnels affiliate link and it would just redirect, you can track the hits to it and kind of see how that's doing.

I'm working right now on some pretty cool stuff for some video hosting options.

Multiple different levels of courses, additional features built into courses as well. All of your funnels, you have unlimited funnels so you can literally build anything you want, upsells, downsells, and you have.

A bunch of templates and all that stuff as well inside of there. Right Library.

Yeah. And actually right now by I think next in two weeks from the point of today's. So like end of November, we're launching a marketplace. If people are good at building authority sites or funnels, they can sell them in the platform.

Well, by the time this is live, that should be live as well.

So we'll have that available too. And I want to make that a true. It's not just about drawfunnels about all things direct response. So you could get sales copy, you could get Facebook ads pre written, you could get services, or you could get all of that stuff in one repository.

So that's the goal killer. That's exciting. We got to start using this more.

Well, okay, well what Joe just said leads me to another question. Let's say we've got a site over@evergreenprofits.com that's where we house all of our podcasts, all of our blog posts, our sort of resources pages, our recommended tools, that sort of thing. But that site has been running for 10ish years now. So as you can imagine, there's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pieces of content on there. There's existing landing pages that we've built with other tools on there. What does the process look like to get it from that platform to drop funnels if we did want to migrate like a giant pre existing site?

Yeah, it's a common question and it's one of those things where I, I really just believe in serving people at the highest level and being completely transparent. In that particular case there's not enough benefit to outweigh the time of doing that massive migration. If you have a small one and you want to rebuild it, we have teams that will, will create or do that for you. But as you've experienced with WordPress, there's hundreds of thousands of developers, they're all doing different code bases and all different themes and all that kind of stuff. So there is no option to just import it directly in. If you're on click funnels specifically we have a one Click import. That'll take that design and make it a funnel.

And certain people have done, really. George Bryant did a huge migration. We brought in all of his stuff, all of his podcasts and blogs and sites and all that stuff, his courses, and so we'll do that as well. But honestly, the thing that serves you best is what you should just kind of keep things in place where they. Where they are. If you did move, there would be no harm, if that makes sense. Like, if you keep it on the same URL, all of your links would continue to age well and rank and all that type of thing. But if you're going from WordPress to WordPress with a ton of content, there's not really enough benefit to outweigh your investment of time to make that happen.

Switching costs are too high, basically.

So just link. Just link to your funnel. So if you had like mattandjoe.com or evergreenprofits.com you could do like, go.evergreenprofits.com would be your drop funnels site, and that would be where your funnels are held, for example.

Gotcha. And we're kind of doing that right now too, so.

Cool.

Okay, we'll switch those to drop funnels. That's easier. Nice. Well, I don't have anything else. I mean, this is awesome, man. Is there anything from, I guess an affiliate marketer perspective, audience builder, someone looking to convert that we just haven't touched on this whole time here? I felt like we covered a lot, though.

Maybe unless there's some other trends other.

Than the Facebook ad shutdowns that we should be aware of.

Yeah, I think there really is a major cultural shift away from what we lovingly call in the industry, bro marketing.

So I think, and this is maybe a little more existential or ethereal than you guys want to get, but honestly, I think authenticity, integrity is king. And when you are running sales calls or you're running sales funnels or you're doing anything in your business and it's aligned within you, being who you are, people will find you because of who you are, not because of who you aren't or who you're trying to be. So whether you're an influencer or any of that stuff, be who you are. People, even if they aren't commenting on your stuff or buying your stuff, right now, they're seeing what you're doing. Right. And if people understand what a sales process is all about, the top of the funnel isn't when they get to your page. The top of your funnel is the post that you're making on Instagram or what you're doing on Facebook or how. Even deeper how you respond to people in your political arguments that you make. It's probably the most important. Right. And they're going to decide whether or not they want to be around you based on how you behave.

Right.

So I think people need to be more cognizant of like, no one buys into the hype of the Lambos and the Flash and Cash and all that stuff.

I saw that was your. Because I was cruising your Instagram. I think that was my Halloween costume. I was like, oh God, did we invite this guy? He had like a little. One of these little soul patch things.

One guy photoshopped a Lambo in the background. That was.

But yeah, I just think honestly we're in that we're in the age of massive skepticism. And I think it's Daniel Pink who talks about that. The level of sophistication in an access to information as it compares to how you can sell people, they're pretty comparative. So for example, like back in the 70s, used car salesmen had all the information. You couldn't just look up how well a car was going to treat you or any of those things. So they had the control. Now users have the control, they have the information. So they already know everything about you that is possible to find online. Right.

Amazon. Look at what they're doing.

Is it going to be a negative review about your stuff? The first thing that they see, is it going to be your content that they see? What story do they hear the narrative? How do they. When they interact with you, what's it like? Do they get a good feeling about that? I mean, I don't have to tell you guys clearly, it's. You guys are amazing guys and very authentic and you don't have to be somebody you don't. That you're not like being who you are. You'll find snowball effect of bringing good people into your life. I think.

Yeah, it's one of the hardest things to like, I guess, get into and not wear a mask in your marketing because you're trying to serve these people. But yeah, you're right. I think it's the long game too. It's going to pay off well.

Very cool. Thanks so much for joining us today. And where can people go learn about drop funnels? And is there also anywhere else online that you'd want people to go check out social media accounts or anything else that you want to point people to?

Yeah, honestly, we've got just one environment. And we've got a Facebook group you can search drop funnels to get into it. It's a free group, and people are super supportive of each other. It's really the best place to kind of dive into our world. Obviously, there's trials for people. I'm sure you guys have got some good hookups for people there, but I just suggest people to. When it's the right time for you and your business, dive into the world of digital marketing headfirst. Like, go all in, burn the boats, because you're going to just be a better person and win longer term. Especially here in the age of COVID right when we have time to make this happen. So whether you're an affiliate, a network, you have your own products, you want to launch your course, just move forward fearlessly because there's a gap of opportunity in the market ready for you to jump into. And whoever gets their first wins, love it.

Well, cool.

Anybody listening? Check out the drop funnels group on Facebook. And then also hustleandflowchart.com dropfunnels will actually be a special redirect over to where you can learn more about drop funnels. So, Jordan, thanks so much for spending the time with us today. This has been absolutely amazing.

Appreciate it, guys. You rock. This is super fun.

Did you like it?

Yes.

You did?

No, I didn't like it. Why would I say no? I hated it.

Of course.

I was excited.

There was actually a lot of different little things. We went all over the place. But I'm looking at my notes right now.

I feel like it was a. I feel like there was little bits of tactics in there. But we did cover, like, a lot of ground with it.

We did. And I'd say more strategies than anything, which. And then there's some tactics. But, yeah, like, I have a handful in mind that. That are outside of the one that we were just discussing prior to recording. But, yeah, I would say the very first thing, so just to say a quick one, is the way that he's taken. He's jumped into a red ocean, which is like shit ton of competition. You know, could be like playing on price, on features. Like, all that stuff is very competitive and it's tough to stand out. And he's now created a blue ocean effect where it's not all that. Because. And I was curious at first. I was like, okay, so how did he do this? But then start understanding, okay, all the features and how he's built this thing on top of a platform, WordPress, that has this shell that he's created the UI of all the graphics and the user interface that, that users can now use. But the benefits of WordPress and all that stuff is cool with all these other platforms like Facebook advertising and Google SEO. Yet for the user, it's simple as hell with a drag and drop thing.

That's how you create now a blue ocean. Because he's different. It's like a completely different product in this very competitive space.

Well, yeah, he sees it as not really competing with the click funnels and the lead pages of the world. He sees it as like, I am build, I'm making WordPress easier for everybody. That's kind of the way he's seeing it.

He can, while, while everyone else is probably going on price and features, he can completely talk a different thing. You know, like he doesn't have to talk that language in his marketing. I think that's what's so freaking awesome. And like a big. I think that's a mind shift that all of us can take and apply to anything.

Yeah, yeah.

Leverage something that is existing or something where you know it's proven and like fricking maybe layer it up or leverage it somehow where someone else might not be looking at that thing. And that thing I'm seeing here is WordPress.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know my take on WordPress. I've been a big fan of WordPress forever. My first product was called the WordPress Classroom.

Right.

But lately I think I was even telling you this last week that like, if I could get off WordPress, I would get off WordPress because I'm getting really, really sick of it.

Well, I mean, essentially it's kind of what he created because he even takes the host. Like if you were not, if we were not partners, I'd just like jump here because I don't like any of that crap like hosting and back end managing.

I mean, I don't mind managing WordPress and the hosting and that kind of stuff. That's. It's not a huge.

I mean like I can count on like two hands. How many times in the last like three years I've had to log into our hosting account.

Right.

Like the hosting just kind of handles itself. But when it comes to WordPress specifically, you know, figuring out what plugins are slowing down our site, figuring out what plugins conflict with each other. Every time I log in, I'm having to update plugins. Like it's. And then like the themes are constantly getting updated. So you got to get in and update the themes and if, if you do, do Any sort of like PHP or coding behind the scenes every time the theme updates. If you didn't create a child theme, then you need to go.

And every time you upgrade 20 themes.

Ago, every time you upgrade a theme, it'll overwrite any changes you made to the previous theme. Unless, of course, you're using a child theme, which is the right way to do it, but most people don't. So, anyway, I can get into the weeds on what I don't like about WordPress and drop funnels. Not to sound like a salesman for drop funnels, but he literally did solve, like, all of my pains in the ass with WordPress.

Well, this is exactly why he's in a blue ocean. And that's the point exactly, is he can now operate from a different marketing messaging standpoint.

Yeah.

Because he solved all these objections that someone like me could see in one way and you in a whole different way of like, oh, I know all the work that goes into this and I want to do other things with my time. Yeah. And then here I am over here, I'm like, last thing I want to do is even think about hosting. Even though if it's just one and set and forget, I don't want it to have to think about it. And plugins, all that stuff. Child things. No, thank you. Yeah, simplicity. I'm all about that.

And we talked about how we were talking to Jordan a little bit after the recording was over as well. And we talked about how we've never really sort of hung our hat on, like a page builder. Right. Like, we've got our checkout builder that we absolutely love and swear by in ThriveCart. We've got our membership platform that we love and swear by with members pro. Right. We've got our autoresponder that we love at activecampaign. Like, we've got all these tools that we really, really love, but we've never gone out and said, everybody needs to use this page builder. You know, we've used click funnels, we've used Groove pages, we've had Mike on, we've had Russell on. We've interviewed these other.

We've interviewed them all.

We've interviewed all founders of these various page builders. I even interviewed Clay Collins.

Those guys are James and Ian over at Optimize. I mean, they're all our buddies.

Yeah. But we've never really went and hung our hat on a page builder and said, this is the page builder that I think everybody should be using. But with my. I mean, I'll be honest, I haven't used drop funnels a ton. I started to build mattwolf.com on drop funnels and then kind of never really fleshed it out a whole lot, But I've gotten in the background and played around with it. I even sort of demoed it for you one time.

Yeah.

And, you know, I honestly think as far as a page builder goes, it's my favorite one that I've used. I can literally build anything I can imagine. If I can look at a website and have drop funnels open on, like, one of my monitors and this other website open on my second monitor, and I can probably clone any website I find into drop funnels. It's like it. It's pretty ninja like how dialed in.

You can get it so then really in, like, what? I thought it was funny because Jordan basically said how well it exposes the weaknesses in marketers or entrepreneurs because it's so damn fast to get that up to speed. Where, yeah, you have to actually figure out how to create a killer offer, because that's actually more important if you start thinking about it. That's all the shell. That's just the mechanism, the container. And at the end of the day, he's kind of made it where it's almost like how AI is taking over a lot of ads and all that stuff. Well, he's just kind of giving you the closest thing to AI maybe so far. So get your ass out of page building, Matt. Oh, man. But also into deeper in the core, which is really the offer. What problem are you solving? So you can then create this cool journey.

How long is it going to be before there's a website that you go to and you just like, hey, for a hundred dollars, we'll build a business for you that just runs itself. Right? I mean, probably not $100 already. Imagine like $100 a month, maybe. Imagine once you get to the point where it's like, all right, you've got page builders out there that automatically just kind of like, have the perfect design for you. You've got automated copywriting tools. You've got Facebook and Google Ads, which need less and less targeting by the day because Facebook and Google are getting better and better at finding your targets for you. Think about it. How close are we to just like, okay, here's the problem. I want to solve for people, and here's my solution. Everything else is done for me.

And remember the. And this is now getting a little tangent y. But whatever. That's what. What the section's for is someone recently in our support Reached out and it was a software founder, asked him to be on the podcast. Probably won't happen because that's. I mean, maybe. I don't know. I won't say never, but historically, no, but the software looked interesting is the point. And I'm chatting with them about that because of unicorn equity and some other things that we do because we're always. And this is kind of maybe a lesson or an aha. That that don't just throw away the baby with the bathwater if they're asking to be on the podcast. I just had a call with a cool guy named Rio yesterday. Sorry, not Rio. Sid. No, Sid. And from a company that's not launched yet, so I won't even mention it. But the whole thing is you can kind of spin opportunities from these conversations. So we're exploring this new tool and maybe promoting it if it works out. But remember, it's the intelligence tool. It looks at everything you just said, which is like all the ads, all the pages and all that. And it's essentially like figuring out your next marketing move. And it's like, okay, based on all the data that you're bringing in on all these different. All your platforms, and it's now telling you the next best action.

What was that tool that Brad told us. Brad Costanza told us about a tool on Slack the other day, and I'm drawing a blank on the name.

Okay, so this is funny. I think it's Copysmith is what you're thinking of. Was it for your copy, right?

Was it like Copysmith AI?

I think so. The guy that I talked to yesterday, I haven't even told you this yet, but I will now because it's relevant. Is the guy that's the world listening? He actually said that he created it before they did, but it's that concept he's focused on ads primarily for.

So that's what there's mostly seems to be focused on.

So he showed. Here's where it's called, like, I don't know, it's Boca, I think it is, but I don't know the spelling. That's why I'm gonna. When it's time. Essentially, it integrates with your Google Ads account and will pipe in that information. Essentially, it gives you an endless scroll of creatives, and you can do that seamlessly. You don't have to copy and paste, which I think Copysmith you do have to do.

That's what he said. He has a direct integration with AdWords. And you just click, click, click. And then essentially it basically writes the ads for you. Yeah. And you can constantly be doing split tests all the freaking time without thinking. And you can, you know, obviously modify stuff, but it's giving you, like, this endless scroll of creatives.

Yeah.

A copy creative's headlines and he wants to take it to some other platforms. Don't worry, we'll be getting access to that shortly, so we can demo. But it's exactly what you said.

I just feel like we could eventually get to the point where, you know, when we have. When we know what problem we're trying to solve and we create a decent solution. Right. I don't think there's. We're that close to having, like, automation creating the solutions for us and as far as, like, educational content and things. But if we can define a problem and then go and create a solution, maybe in the form of content or. Or software or something, create a solution to that problem. Well, you use drop funnels, and it's just going to sort of manage your website on the back end for you. You use these tools we're talking about to write your ads for you. Google and Facebook will figure out the targeting for you. You can use tools like topic and these sort of automated or SEO tools that are using AI to sort of write the content, like, figure out what.

To write about both on content, on, like, SEO content and ad content. So you have all that covered now.

Yeah. So, I mean, essentially you could get to the point where it's like, okay, here's the problem I defined. Here's the solution I created. Plug it into this, like, sort of stack of tools, and then the business just kind of runs itself.

Yeah.

Like, we could get there.

It's there, I think pretty damn close. And I think just like what you and I have done in an interesting way is hook up all these weird platforms together and create a web of them talking with each other.

That's what we're doing.

Yeah.

I mean, that's what we're designing Members Pro to do, basically.

With Chris, what would you say? We can't kind of do that right now with these tools that we know exist already and we're chatting with the founders and mean, I see a blank whiteboard right behind you, Matt, and I think it's time to fill that bad boy up. Yeah.

Was there any other takeaways? Because that was sort of very tangenty off of what we talked about with him.

Tangent, Eva. I thought it was a good one. Yeah, that was a fun one. That was a fun one. Yeah. There's some other takeaways. Yeah. I Think the ads account thing is interesting and obviously it's kind of. It's broad and I mean, it's interesting and it makes a lot of sense. Slow loading time, redirects, it doesn't make for a good ad experience in any of these ad platforms. So, I mean, that makes sense even with SEO. If you think of the SEO world, every single SEO guy out there or galaxy is talking about, you better make them happy, be comprehensive, follow their rules and all that. Well, same thing with an ad account. They don't need your money.

Yeah, well, I mean, just drop funnels for SEO is going to speed up your site as well.

But even taking drop funnels out, the fact that you should be aware of your slow load time and redirects so your ads account doesn't get shut down.

Well, it's interesting to me because so many people use redirect tools not for any sort of. Any sort of like, weird purposes that I think Facebook would care about, but more just to know like your click numbers and your.

Yeah, it's analytics.

Yeah, just to like, sort of get your analytics on how well your ads are performing. So to me, it's. It's kind of weird that Facebook would say we don't want any redirect links because redirects are pretty common practice among media buyers who need to sort of track their results.

I think the thing that. And the one that I didn't mention here, but he, I think he mentioned lightly, Jordan was. Remember he was saying it's like platform. They're almost like looking at platforms as a whole. So let's say click funnels. And I don't know, I can't. Obviously there's an example. Just as much as I could say, okay, think about Evergreen profits. If we had a big funnel builder, they would probably look at the platform that has the most of this problem and they'd probably penalize those users because they're using a platform that makes Facebook's experience bad or lesser than, not to their standards. So they're just like, screw you, we don't need your money. Ban your account, at least force you to move to a platform or fix whatever issues. But I think they're going 80, 20, man.

You know, is my assumption, this is not based on any sort of fact or science or anybody even told me this, but here's my sort of belief around the redirects on Facebook is that I don't think Facebook cares that it's a redirect because Facebook is not a stupid platform. It's not like Facebook knows when it's a redirect, and Facebook is just gonna look at the end landing page. Right. So Facebook, like, when you go and create an ad and I plug in, like, a redirect, that might be like, using a pretty link or something below the ad, Facebook actually will change the URL to the sort of final landing page. Like, Facebook knows that you're redirecting from one page to another. So Facebook knows about the redirects. And if they did not want redirects, they would just not let you do it. They would notice the second you plug in a URL that it was a redirect. And then they would say. It would say, oh, this looks like a redirect. Please use a different link or something. Right. Like, they know. So I don't think they care about redirects, but I think what happens is certain. Like leaning into what you're saying. I think what happens is that certain platforms, Facebook starts to get a bad taste in their mouth around the platform. So, for instance, Facebook is starting to realize, like, okay, if it's built on click funnels, there's been a lot of. I don't know if this is true, but there's been a lot of shady products that have gotten launched using click funnels sales pages. So, you know, let's just start cleaning house and not letting clickfunnels landing pages on our site. They did it with jvzoo. You used to be able to put a link to a jvzoo product in an ad. Now if you plug in a link to a jvzoo product, it'll say, this is a banned URL on our site. You can't use JVZoo links. So, like, they would do that if they didn't like the redirects. But I think what they're doing is just kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater and saying, okay, there's been a lot of sort of problems with people building sites on click funnels, so let's just throw all the clickfunnels out and not let people drive traffic to pages built on clickfunnels. Right. I think that's more of what's happening than it being any sort of issue with using redirects.

Yeah, no, it's a very good point. I mean, they know. They know all the data. They know more than. I mean, they're right there with Google, obviously.

Yeah.

But, yeah, you're right. And that's where I think they're looking at a specific. I mean, it's probably gonna make their lives a lot Easier to just ban a bunch of these people who share a similar platform for whatever reason Facebook or Google want to make up. But it's like, if they don't like you or like what that platform's doing to their user's experience, then, yeah, it's in their best interest to just be like. Like chop.

Yeah. And I think they have this sort of like, you know, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission philosophy with this kind of stuff where they'll just go, okay, this is clickfunnels, let's go ahead and like, flag this one. And if they complain about it, we'll review it and if it looks good, we'll put it back up.

Right.

Cause we've had that kind of stuff happen to us before where we've actually had Facebook accounts shut down. We looked at our landing page and went, what the hell is wrong with this landing page? There's nothing wrong with it.

It was AI. Right.

Yeah. We contacted Facebook and Facebook reviewed it and went, oh, you're right, this page is fine. And they put it back up for us and reinstated our account.

Yeah. Basically a machine's looking at these qualify, you know, these feature sets or whatever this procedure that the algorithm's looking at.

Yeah.

And it'll just flag, flag, flag. But then it's onto the account owner, us to actually. Like, that's bullshit. And then. Okay, now we gotta figure out the direct line to Facebook, which that's impossible to find, basically. And then just to get your ad back on. But yeah, you're right. I mean, it's. This is why Jordan was saying they don't care about you. They have more money than they would ever need for a lot of use.

They will shut your site down without ever looking at the copy or what's on the site, and then let you try to figure it out and get it turned back on later. They will go that route. We've seen it. So.

I thought it was kind of something that we can speak into for a minute. Because I don't want people listening to this be like, I am scared shitless to go run Facebook ads now. But maybe just kind of keep that in mind if you. You are running Facebook ads to like a Click Funnels page.

And again, we don't have any proof on Click Funnels as well. So I don't want to keep throwing that.

Yeah, no.

Under the bus. But just in general. Just check your speed.

Yeah. And I'm going to go back to my previous statement of I have, like, no facts, no science, no data on Any of this. Right. Like, I have, like the Web of.

Trust is what Jordan was suggesting.

Right?

Yeah. Like, that's one of the web of trust.com, actually have. I think I've been there before, but that, I mean, use data from other sources like that. Use your opinions. Yes. And observations. All right.

Sponsor, Sponsor. We're sponsored by Easy Webinar.

That we are.

And Easy Webinar is a great tool for doing automated live. In fact, you're better to do the sponsorship because you had a. Like, you were communicating with Casey from Easy Webinar the other day, correct?

Yes. So I'm jumping ahead, actually. I wanted to say if you want to get drop funnels, we should probably mention that link again.

Let's do that.

Is hustle and flowchart.com drop funnels and just go there. I mean, we are going to make sure that you are taken care of. We don't have.

Anything more than that, I think, to say, but I mean, go get it. And if you like the guy, you like where it's at, go get drop floor. Yeah.

I mean, you just heard him tell you, like, what is going on with the platform and why it sort of outperforms the other platforms right now, so.

Helps help support the show as well. Yes. All right, so thank you. Thank you. Easy Webinar. Yes. So onto their section, I had a chat. It's actually got a loom from Casey, the founder of Easy Webinar. And he's a buddy of ours and he's been heads down on product, all these new features and they're rolling out actually this massive new interface. So the inside, when you're setting up these webinars, it's gonna be completely different pretty soon. And hopefully I'm allowed to say that, but I'll just say, I mean, I'm not gonna say specifics, but I'm just gonna say it's gonna get a lot easier now.

Yeah, I actually saw this Loom video and like the. The flow of how you build these webinars is getting even easier.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the big takeaway here. And Casey and his team, I mean, it's kind of insane how long they've been dedicated to this project. It's funny story, back when I was in my animation days, like literally like five houses ago that I lived in, I made a video for Casey and it was called a different product name, but it was basically this. And so it's just interesting.

Wasn't it just Easy Webinar plugin back then?

I Think it was. Yeah. Plugin. Yeah. So it was a WordPress plugin at the time. It's not anymore.

You just dropped the plugin part.

Yeah, yeah. And it's. But it's like completely built. Built differently as well. But yeah, it's crazy now. I just made the connection. I was like, wow, he was a paying client before we were ever really buddies. Buddies, yeah. But now we're good buddies.

He's sponsoring, he's supporting this show.

And that's why it's a benefit to you to sign up. If you're thinking about doing webinars, I mean, that's the guy, that's the team and the tool. So go to. They're hooking you up, by the way. They're big percentage off depending on the plan you sign up with. If you go to easywebinar.com.

And make sure you get the notes too, as Matt hovers over the stop button. Wow, we've gone 21 minutes. I'm going to keep you hovering for a second longer. Matt, get the notes. I don't know if we even mentioned that. We kind of missed all of our call to actions this time. Get the notes but join the Facebook group because it's a two for one. So if you go to flowchartgroup.com sign up and put your email in there, you get the notes of this episode with Jordan and a few others depending on the time you get in there.

And special live streams from us sometimes like we did yesterday.

Yes, hopefully they continue. Or maybe not. No, we'll probably continue to do them monthly. But we, we put a lot of cool stuff in there. Flowchartgroup.com share this episode with someone that needs it. Thank you very much.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. Before taking the time to listen, we want to give you you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to and give us your your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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