Julie Adams - How To Build And Rank A Portfolio Of Affiliate Sites

So the first thing is obviously having manufacturers that have affiliate programs that have at least like, 10, 12% commission and making sure there's at least four or five of those. If you only have one that's making 10%, you kind of pigeonholed into basically working for that company. And if they go out of business, you go out of business.

So it kind of starts with the.

Offer before keyword research and all that stuff.

Then, yeah, yeah. SEO comes second. Because if you SEO something that's going to give you 2%, congratulations, you're making pennies. It starts with the offers first.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Wiki, wiki wiki. We're back.

We are back again, and this time we're hanging out with our friend Julie Adams. Ooh, wow. We synced up perfectly on that one.

We did, we did.

How'd we do that?

I don't know, but Julie's got a really cool model with content. She's actually got a sort of portfolio of content websites that are all making essentially passive income through affiliate marketing, which, if you have listened to our podcast, you know, that's right up our alley. That's something we love talking about, is passive income through content marketing.

I mean, she has nailed it perfectly. So she's identified. Here's what I love about it, and what you'll get is she's figured out her personality early in business, and she's basically created a business around her personality, and that just happens to be affiliate marketing content, and then like, running this portfolio of sites that essentially allow her to diversify enough, but also really profit majorly without working too hard. And it's rad. I mean, this is probably one of the most tactical episodes, definitely, when it comes to content and affiliate stuff.

Yeah.

So, like, get ready, strap in, because, I don't know, we asked about, like, 200 questions.

Oh, yeah, this was rapid fire. We were just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. All right, what kind of content do you make? How do you hire a content writer? How do you structure the content? Do you do copywriting versus content writing? How do you get backlinks? How do you do the SEO? What do you do on page? Like, literally, this was like rapid fire. Break down your business model right now. For us, it was crazy. Super awesome. And she was super generous with what.

She shared, so she didn't hold back. Nothing to sell. Yeah. This is like what we were talking about. We're like, man, this is so rad when, like, there's nothing on the other. She was just like, cool. Here's my business model. Yep. So that's what you're going to get in this episode. We took copious action guide notes for you. Well, sue did. We did. We're lazy. We just talk. So we want you to get those notes for free, but you have to be quick. They're only free for two weeks of this going live, but you can get them@flowchartgroup.com make sure to enter your email address in there because you also get access to our Facebook group, flowchartgroup.com plug in the email. We will send it to you. You're going to enjoy this one. Strap in, get ready, and let's go chat with Julie. All right, we're rolling. Julie, how you doing?

Good, good. How are you guys? Happy to be here.

Solid. Yeah, no, we're happy to have you. I know Matt Diggity spoke highly of you. And I mean, we're doing some research and we're like, okay, you've been deep in the SEO space for a while now, but you have an interesting model with affiliate stuff and portfolio.

Yeah. So to give you a little bit of background of kind of how I started, I've been doing this since 2012. So right around Penguin and Panda Updates is where I learned how to do SEO. So I went from basically the wild west to everything being, you know, a little bit more tight knit.

Yeah.

And the way that I started was really interesting. I was not qualified at all. I didn't even know what the term SEO stood for. I got hired by a guy I used to babysit for. He essentially just brought me in at very close to minimum wage. I was managing content and doing link building campaigns with not much experience. So I learned everything basically on the job and I worked there until 2019. And during that time, I was building up affiliate websites, kind of learning how to do SEO as I'm working there. And then I eventually sold one for just under 40,000 and used that money to quit. And now I'm doing affiliate full time.

Oh, that's rad. So you were basically getting paid to learn, which is like the.

Yeah, yeah. I called my agency work. Free schooling. Yeah. Or paid schooling. Paid schooling. Yeah.

What kind of agency was. Was it like a content marketing agency that was for clients, or was it all, like, in house portfolio?

It was a local. It was a local SEO agency. So we worked with people in the general Orlando area, everything from, like, doctors and lawyers to Plumbers and stuff like that. So I got a lot of hands on experience with. At the highest point, I had like 80 clients.

Wow.

So I was managing a ton of stuff. Not by myself, but I was definitely at the head near the end. Like I said, I started with content and eventually worked my way up to doing basically their lead SEO.

Yeah. Well, that's cool because you don't get sort of pigeonholed into doing SEO for one sort of niche. Right. You kind of get to see the whole gamut and learn across multiple sort of industries.

Yeah. And the interesting thing is when you're not the owner of an agency, you don't lose money if you lose a client. So you kind of get to experiment. I know that sounds bad, but it's.

We totally know what you're saying.

Death for me.

We've been on both sides of the.

Coin.

So I had a lot of room to experiment. Like I said, I had upwards of 80 clients at once. So I could see what works, see what didn't.

Yeah.

What does your business model look like now? Because I know you kind of have this portfolio of sites, so how do you describe what your current business is?

Very hands off, passive income. It is the true make money online. That's not a scam sort of deal. So I have seven websites. I started building them a couple years ago. Now they're all pretty much in, not autopilot. I work like four or five hours a day on them and basically they're all affiliate websites, so it's 100% commissions based. I work direct with manufacturers to essentially have the websites make money for me. And then I also do consulting. So no clients or anything, just affiliate SEO.

Straight up, your stuff.

Let's break down your model in a second here. But what got you into the affiliate game? Because it sounds like you're working directly with manufacturers. Did that start with FBA or Amazon type stuff?

No. So I just learned that SEO existed when I worked at the agency and I hated talking to clients. So doing affiliate SEO is a way to essentially just do SEO in its purest form. Like if you're good at it, you're good at it. You rank. You don't have to explain that to a client. You don't have to worry about keeping the client around. You just if you rank, you make money. So from that perspective, the model was really appealing because I was really good at SEO, not necessarily good at talking to people and keeping clients around at the time. So it was a way to just basically make money with my skill without having to sell it to people.

It's the perfect business model for you then. And I love how you're upfront with it. You're like, yep, this is me and this is my model.

I've grown a lot. I love doing stuff like this now. But like I said, I'm 27 now, and I started in 2012, so I was. I couldn't even drink.

So I've grown a lot.

Yeah. Yeah, man. Okay, so I guess let's just jump into your model, because I know that will uncover all sorts of weird questions. We'll pull out from our perspective, but break down, like, in a simple form, I guess, like how it looks like your websites, your portfolio, and, I mean.

I have some more, like, sort of granular questions where we can kind of like, dig in, I think. So with the model that you're doing, how do you decide, like, which, like, sort of what niches to go into to start with? If you're gonna. If you're gonna build an affiliate website, how are you deciding, like, this is a niche worth pursuing versus there's no money in this niche?

Yeah, so it's a great question. When I first started, I wasn't even thinking about really how to make money with it. Now that's totally changed. Now the way that I approach it is very. How can I make money in this niche? So the first thing is obviously having manufacturers that have affiliate programs that have at least like, 10, 12% commission and making sure there's at least four or five of those. If you only have one that's making 10%, you kind of pigeonholed into basically working for that company. And if they go out of business, you go out of business. So there's different platforms like ShareASale, Commissionjunction.com where manufacturers will list their affiliate programs. So when I'm looking to get into something new, I'll basically just browse that and look for different niches that have 10 to 15% and make sure there's a good amount of people offering that. And then starts the keyword research and all the SEO stuff.

So it starts with the offer before keyword research and all that stuff.

Then, yeah, SEO comes second. Because if you SEO something that's going to give you 2%, congratulations, you're making pennies. It starts with the offers first.

Once you've found a handful of offers to promote and you decide, okay, this is a niche worth pursuing, there's offers, there's multiple products I can promote, what's sort of the next step, I guess, would you go and Find a domain name and that would be where you'd go from there. What do you do after that? You've decided on the offers?

Yeah. So after you find the niche that you want to get into, you have to make sure that you can compete in it. So I jump straight into the keyword research part of everything and finding a competitor that is not super, super niche down. For example, let's say I wanted to do a site about something in the automotive niche. I wouldn't go after bestcar headlights.com or something like that. And I also wouldn't go after cars.com, so you go after somebody kind of in the middle so that you have enough keywords to search from. So essentially you can scan that website and see what keywords they're ranking for and see if you can compete with the amount of content and links that you want to build yourself.

Yeah. So you have keyword research. And how does the site look? Is it just straight up written content, WordPress blog kind of style?

Yeah, it's WordPress, but I make them more kind of like a brand. So the homepage talks about, you know, who, who we are and then it has like some how to guides and stuff like that. It's not a blatant affiliate website. I present them more as guides, if that makes sense. Yeah.

So like a branded guide, it seems like it probably attracts a wider audience. That's like, oh, okay, she's her own media site or I don't know. Do you have avatars for each one of these websites?

Yeah, so I have basically Personas on each site. Yeah, so yeah.

Nice. What are. So I guess like what are some tools like for the keyword research side of things? What was that process look like? Like your tool stack? Do you have specific things that you look for?

I use a lot of Ahrefs. I know that's not really the most interesting answer, but it's the standard. There's two ways that I go about the keyword research. The main way is based off of competitors. So like I said, you go off of somebody who's like mid niche so that you're able to see keywords that you're interested in. You can essentially throw them in tools like Ahrefs and you can isolate their rankings by keyword difficulty and volume. So you essentially throw them into the tool, apply a filter and that spits out relevant keywords that are within a difficulty that you can attain and that's going to have enough volume to drive traffic.

Got it.

Now going back to the domain name Once you've done the keyword research. I remember I checked out another podcast that you were on and you were mentioning.

Buying domains that already like pre existing domains versus buying a brand new fresh domain. Like what's sort of your take on the domain once you've done the keyword research?

Yeah, so the way that I do it, I never really rely on a brand new site. So I'm okay with buying a new domain because I'm okay with it sitting in the sandbox for a year because I've got other sites, you know, making me money right now. So with that being said, before I purchase a domain, I'll go and look at expired domains just to see if anything good is out there. I'll look for a week or two and see if there's anything that is in the budget, not spammy, sometimes has links, stuff like that. So it's really 50 50. And I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to spend $5,000 on a domain, but I'm also, I don't mind if it's new.

Right.

And the value of the expired domain is the fact that it might have backlinks already pointing to it and you know, some sort of reputation already to it.

Yeah, one of my most successful domains that I bought it actually it was 20 bucks. So it was really, really cheap. And it didn't have a ton of links. But it used to be a business that was in the niche that I wanted. So it had directories built out. So it had an address and a phone number that I didn't necessarily carry over but already existed on directories. And it had, you know, a couple of good do follow links. But for the most part it was just an established brand already that had gone out of business. So I was able to scoop up the domain for super cheap. And now that's one of my top performing sites.

So this might be a dumb question, but where do you go to find these domains? Like expired domains? Could you just go to like a namecheap.com and do that?

Yeah, there's a couple of different places. I think expired domains.net is kind of like a directory that shows like godaddy and namecheap and stuff like that. It basically brings everything together. And then you can do auctions and stuff like that too.

Nice. Okay, cool. Yeah, I've never heard of that site.

That's great.

Yeah, it's a very obvious domain name.

Exactly.

I probably could have googled that, but thank you. So when it comes to, I guess the next step would Be website, right?

Do you always build your website or do you ever sometimes acquire existing content or anything? Or do you like to just start from scratch?

I like to do the design from scratch. If I purchase a website and a design already exists, I'll carry the content over but essentially mix up the design. But something that I'd build from scratch. I Normally build on WordPress with Thrive page builder. And you essentially build out a template. You can look at competitors, see what they're doing in the niche, because it may vary from one niche to another and then just build it out that way.

Yeah, I think you kind of just answered my next question anyway.

So is every site sort of like designed the same or is there kind of variations? Because I would imagine if you're managing seven sites, it would make it fairly simple if you were able to just kind of manage the exact same design for every site versus having completely different.

They're all different. I mean they all use Thrive, but they are all different. When I'm building on a new site, like I said, I look at the competitors that are out there because sometimes it may be more image heavy niche versus like an infographic or maybe it's just more content chart based stuff like that. So it depends on, you know, what's out there.

Gotcha. Yeah, that makes sense. How about like and. Sorry, we're like drilling questions.

If you're okay with it. How about on the writing side of things? So you're obviously the wizard at SEO. Do you hire writers? Is this all you? I'm assuming.

I've been working with one writer for, I don't know, three or four years now. And she really knows my style. I gave her when I first started basically an outline of what I'm looking for. So outline, obviously in the obvious sense for a content writer, the word count and the keywords, but also like content framing. So depending on certain niches, you can make content say the same thing, but have a positive connotation or negative. So using the niche acne, for example, you could be promoting a product that says in a positive light, this certain product has this ingredient and it's going to clear your acne overnight versus the negative version of that is these other products don't have this ingredient. You're never going to clear your acne unless you buy this particular product. So you can kind of see how you're saying the same thing but saying it completely differently.

Yeah, and I'm sure that's based off.

I don't do that.

Yeah, I'm sure that's on your content research. Right. Or like research of the market. You figure, okay, are they more negative based or like pain based? Or is it like, ah, you can do this?

Yeah. That's one of the things that people don't really notice. They just write like factual based content, which is fine in some senses, but emotions at the end of the day sell.

Sure. How do you decide that? Are you like, are you digging around in Facebook groups or other places or is that literally all keyword research as well?

I normally start positive, so I'll talk about the good stuff that is a product and then goes to AB testing on successful pages, kind of tweaking it around that way.

Hence your shirt, I guess. Yeah, Split test everything. I'd rather be a B testing.

Now.

When it comes to content. Hiring content writers has always sort of been a struggle for us in our own business because it seems like you've got sort of two skill sets when it comes to content. You've got the copywriter who's really good at making like sort of persuasive content that gets people to buy. And then you've got this sort of content writer who is good at finding facts and data and organizing it into like a readable article. But it's not necessarily persuasive to sell. And I feel like to have a really good like affiliate content site, you really need the blend of both. And that's like a unicorn, like having somebody that's a great content writer and a great copywriter.

Yeah. So I would say at first my content writer is a content writer, she's not a copywriter. Her goal is to say essentially to write content that ranks in Google. And once it ranks in Google, that's where I'll come in and make tweaks to it using that positive, negative sort of tactics and other copywriting tactics. So she's not an expert. She's not like writing for newspapers or anything. She's just adhering to guidelines and then I'm able to tweak it after the fact.

So is there like a. I'm just thinking like in our business we have a few frameworks that when we write a blog post or create a video or whatever, we kind of follow. Like, could you share like a framework maybe of like how a specific blog post would look like that helps. Helps to whatever motivation. I don't know if it's like if you have different frameworks for different reasons. So that could be kind of interesting here.

So it varies obviously, depending on what you're writing. But the rule of thumb is to answer the query. So if it's a how to query, don't tell them, go buy something. Don't tell them why something exists. Tell them how to. Now, with buyer's guides, what I normally do is have a very small intro, like hundred words or something and then answer the question query as part of that intro. So let's say we're talking about, I don't know, let's just keep acne treatment as a niche. I'm not in it, but everybody knows it. So you could be writing an article about the best acne treatment for teenagers. You have an intro article that talks about that and then there's a sentence in there that says the best acne treatment for teenagers is. So that one sentence answers the query as part of the intro. So Google's able to really understand that you have the answer to it without having to go through a bunch of fluff. And then aside from that, you have product summaries and then buyer's guides at the end that answers questions that may either be part of the. Like the serp. So if you type something into Google, you'll see like people also ask sections. So you can have FAQs in the buyer's guide that answer those questions as well.

Got it. So you're basically always any new traffic, which is the query. Like answer the query is essentially that. So you're kind of answering it. That's kind of telling Google, hey, rank this thing. It's relevant. And then obviously it's solving. It's congruent with what they're searching for. So it carries them further into the content.

Yeah, because Google is able to understand language at this point. So if you answered the question in a sentence format, they're able to better understand exactly what they're doing.

That simplifies it so much if you think about it. You're just like, just answer questions. That's it. I love it. So then that links over to like a product type thing then from that post, right?

Yeah. So I'll normally link the answer part to like a jump links that goes to the product summary because people normally need to be convinced to buy something. So some people will place affiliate links directly in the intro paragraph. That's great. You can get a click, but you're not going to get a sale. You have to convince them. So I just drag them further down on the page with an anchor link.

Is all of the content, every piece of content on the site designed to sell the product or is some of it designed to bring people in and Some of it's designed to pre sell the content. Like how do you.

So I think we were talking to Matt Diggity actually in a previous post and I think a lot of his strategy is like a percentage of the content is designed to bring people in, but not necessarily sell. And then a percentage of the content is designed to sell them on specific products. So what's your approach to that?

I'd say it's about 50, 50 sell versus not sell. But the not sell section, there's a whole like sales funnel that you think about. So you have people who are really, really high up, people who are mid in the sales cycle and then people at the bottom that are ready to buy. So a top level content could be a how to or like a why type queries and you just write content based on where people are and that represents about 50% of the content. The other half is buyer's guides and reviews and stuff.

Yeah. So when it comes to I guess actually ranking for all these queries that you go for, what do you do there? Obviously you find a nice, not super competitive, but it has a lot of traffic keyword and you have the content. What's the process look like there on page or maybe off page?

It's a very secret sauce. I'm just kidding.

People will say that it's this intense thing that you do, but at the end of the day it is solid keyword research, solid on page and then link building on top of that. So you have to make sure that you're going after keywords that you can actually rank for. That's super, super, super important. And if you rely on tools like Ahrefs, please note that their keyword difficulty is based off of number of links that are pointing to a page. So if you were to search for a term and it says keyword difficulty 09 times out of 10, that's because of a, a bunch of high authority websites are ranking so they don't need links pointing to that page. They're ranking because they're an authority. So actually doing your homework on the keyword research and finding the right keywords is the most important thing. And then your content, you know, make, make it so that Google can understand it, reverse engineer what is already ranking. So finding your word count based on competitors and then link building to it.

I gotcha. Have you, have you used things like Yoast SEO like for the back end to optimize all the things?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yoast. There's Yoast in rank math. That's like for doing title Tags and stuff like that. I don't follow the rules when it says like your SEO score is zero. Most of my SEO scores is zero. It's just, it's stupid. I don't follow that. But I use it for like title tags and stuff.

Okay, gotcha. What other sort of on page SEO efforts? Like what's like the 80 20, like what should people be focusing on with on page SEO?

Your H1, your title tag and your URL. So make sure those are all relevant and consistent. So the URL, for example, make sure it doesn't. It's not like 45,000 characters long. And make sure it's also not like post 257 XYZ.

Right, right.

Make sure it's like keyword relevant. And then your H1, make sure you have one. Make sure it's relevant. And your title tag. Don't make your H1 and your title tag the same thing. So go after multiple keywords with those two elements. That way you're able to rank for more things. I see a lot of people doing the same H1 as their title tag.

And would they be like super closely related or like how would you like. Let's use the acne example. Sure, I guess.

Give a couple examples. Yeah, yeah. So let's say you want to go after the term best acne treatment. You go into AHREFS and you'll find a bunch of keywords that may say like best acne treatment, best topical acne treatment, Best acne treatment for 2020. So don't make your H1 best acne treatment and your title tag best acne treatment. Make your H1, best acne treatments, topical and medical 2021, something like that. Like combine different keywords in your H1 and title tag to capture more things.

Got it. I like it.

And then so off page SEO, when I think of off page SEO, I mostly think of like link building. Right. Trying to get people to point links to you. And I know there's multiple ways to do it. You can kind of, you can do it like an organic way where people find your articles and just link to them from their websites. You can pay for them. You can, like there's multiple ways and you know, based on your website over at SERP Decoder, like you've, you've got like a link building service that it looks like you even offer. So when it comes to link building, I think the biggest worry I have around link building is finding reputable link builders versus non reputable link builders. Like in the past we've hired People who have gone on fiverr and bought a whole bunch of backlinks and then gotten our sites delisted because they followed shady tactics. So it's. I guess my question around link building is like, if we were to go buy links to our website, how do we know we're not going to get screwed? How do we find the ethical people that are doing it? White hat.

Yeah, I mean, it's a pay to play game. If somebody says you can buy three links for 30 bucks a piece and you're paying 90 bucks, those are going to be shady links. The webmaster that's going to place that link is going to charge $30 at a minimum. So you're also adding the content on top of that, and you're adding the time it takes for outreach. So if you're paying for a $30 link, odds are it's from a hacked website. So they're bypassing the writing of the content, the outreach, and they're just placing links on hacked sites. So definitely have your radar up. If anything is under like with a vendor, if it's under like $100 a link, anything less than that would be shady. Other than that, hire somebody who already knows how to do it. So hire three or four people at once. Give them guidelines of what you're looking for and pit them against each other and kind of hire quick fire quick, I always say.

I mean, that's good advice. How about like when you're. Because you could obviously buy links. How about just link building in general? Do you have any strategies to do that organically?

So I have somebody do it for me. It's not my strong suit. I'm able to pick out the anchor text and I have guidelines like don't go after links that are below a certain domain authority. Don't go after links that are blatantly basically link farm. So people that are blatantly selling links and make sure that the website that you're getting a link from has actual traffic. So if it doesn't have actual traffic, it could be a PBN or something that was resurrected unnaturally. So I'll have my guy check essentially ahrefs or something like that to make sure that it's actually getting organic traffic.

And then they do they cold outreach. They'll email and ask for the link. Okay. How do you angle that when you ask for the link? How would you sort of propose that to somebody?

It's a pay to play. Like these webmasters know what they're up against. You can sauce it up as much as you like. There's a couple people in the industry that are apparently really good at it. It's not me, but as far as I know, like webmasters, they get these tons of emails every day. You got to pay to play.

At this point, we definitely get quite a bit of emails. I mean.

Yeah, and it just goes. It goes straight to the trash.

It does. I mean, a lot of them are just horrible outreach people because they're just using some, you know, mass email tool out there, like mail Shaker.

And you can, like, we're not robots. We can tell if something is actual, like a genuine, genuine outreach or if somebody is just using a machine.

Oh, yeah.

Doing it to make money. Like you want to get paid. But otherwise people aren't looking to accept guest posts on their website just as a hobby. Like, just doesn't happen.

No. How about, like, what other SEO stuff are you seeing now? I mean, we've chatted with a handful of folks kind of recently, but like, in 2021, like, are there any trends or new things that you're aware of or like, you're kind of keeping an eye on to keep in the ranks? I mean, I know Google's doing all sorts of stuff right now.

Yeah. So the biggest thing that's on my radar right now, especially after the latest update in December, is what the SERP actually looks like on mobile. So again, going back to the keyword research, it's super, super important to pull up that keyword on mobile and see what it actually looks like, because there's sometimes where you'll have image ads followed by actual ads, followed by a YouTube video, followed by a people also ask section followed by a YouTube snippet. And then you get to number one, organic.

That's crazy now.

Yeah. So even if you're ranking number one, you're still six scrolls down. So keywords like that are like, kind of hard to get into if you're not going to pay. So, like, avoid stuff like that. But really, really looking at what the SERP actually looks like, I think because Google's trending towards keeping people on Google. It's their business model, so I wouldn't expect that to change.

Yeah, no, it's valuable. I mean, the fact that bring up mobile and I don't think a lot of people, I mean, I don't always think of this as like, okay, yeah, you're on your desktop doing your research, but it's like, hey, get your phone out and see what mobile people are.

Yeah, yeah, there's some, there's some Things that are on mobile that aren't on desktop that you wouldn't know unless you search. Like, especially the people also ask. Or like the what's it called?

Featured something or another.

I forget featured snippets.

Yeah, no, it's not.

It's not featured snippet. But I'm blanking on it right now. People also. No, okay, whatever.

It'll come back.

There's mobile elements that aren't on desktop. Interesting finds. That's what it is. My goodness. Okay, Interesting, interesting finds sections. Yeah.

Okay, so how do you show up? Are you doing any video type stuff or ads that allow you to show up more so on mobile now that they've changed things up?

Not so much video. I am running some ads on Google if the commission's good enough. It just depends on the industry. But I'm honestly trying to stay away from SERPs that are just really, really dense like that. Because you can be like I said, number one, organic SEO and get no traffic.

Sure, yeah, that makes sense. I actually want to kind of go back to content for a second. With the blogs that you do have.

Out there.

Is it like a consistent release schedule of content or is there like a certain amount of posts that you make? And then that site's kind of set.

Up and running so there's obviously it is front loaded because you want to get a website to at least 20, 25 pages before it starts having any sort of relevance. But then after that it's like one post a week, two post a week, depending on how much volume there is.

How long do you think you would give if you started a new site from scratch, how long would you give it before deciding, okay, this one isn't really panning out or has that ever happened? Have you started one? Spent seven months on it, went, okay, this is not going to work.

Yeah. So I had a site I started about a year and a half ago. Now I think it makes me $10 a month. It's just absolutely floundering for one reason or another. You know, you can be really good at SEO and there's always that one website or two website that just doesn't rank. So I would say start looking at a website. If you have a fresh domain after about a year, like get the basics set up, let it get seasoned. Once it's out of the sandbox, start promoting it with links and kind of see what happens from there. I wouldn't expect much before like eight months, nine months.

Gotcha. Okay, so like that's about the window where you expect to see like some of your better keywords really start to rank and get some traffic is about eight or nine months.

Yeah.

And that's with the fresh domain. With the new domain, it depends on when it was dropped, if it was dropped, if it was dropped at all. Sometimes it's the same amount of time. If you acquired a website from somebody else and it's already been around for two or three years, you can get results instantly.

How about you said the 25 pages, so that's like the minimum with a fresh domain then, Right. So is that like a sprint to just like get a bunch of. Get the base content? I'm assuming that's all serpent.

You're answering questions with that content mainly, right?

Yeah. So it's still like 50% of those people high up in the sales funnel. So whether they're on the top level, mid level, or almost at the bottom, I consider those people one chunk. It's about 50, 50. And yeah, just get that up as quickly as possible, interlink it, and then let Google crawl it, do its thing.

Yeah. Is there anything you do to kind of amplify it with Google to kind of speed up the process or is it just kind of just you've done your research and you've done your content and you're kind of praying that Google will pick it up and rank it well.

Well, for a new site, there's literally nothing you can do. The sandbox, it's a time filter. So it doesn't matter what you do. It's gonna, it's gonna take some time. But if you go after like really long tail keywords with maybe an age domain or something that's out of the sandbox, you can start getting traffic easier with, you know, terms that have 20 searches per month. If you build out five of those pages, it's the same as going after one harder keyword that gets 100 searches per month.

True.

So you can kind of adjust your keyword research there to get more easy wins. In the beginning.

Yeah. I have a sort of a sort of in the weeds SEO question, but when you are going and buying backlinks, are you buying them to these internal articles? All 25 articles are getting backlinks. Are you buying them to the root domain? What's the philosophy of how you sort of distribute the backlinks and where they link to?

So it has to be natural. So I don't start building backlinks until I start seeing traffic. So I'll build backlinks to the first pages that get picked up. Doesn't matter what that is, whether it's a how to article, buyer's guide, whatever it is. Because in order for, if you think about it naturally, something to acquire links, it has to have traffic. So if I want to promote a certain buyer's guide, but that one's not ranking and a how to page is ranking, I'll send links to that how to page and use internal links to funnel it down to the buyer's guide. I want to rank.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Cool. I'm kind of curious about the portfolio. Like you're think like zooming out from, I guess in the weeds now. This is like totally opposite end of the spectrum. I'm super curious.

You guys are pulling me all over the place.

I know we do two brains.

This feels very rapid fire, like interview style, but I like it.

We don't always have episodes like this where we just go. Curiosity is going crazy. So I like the fact they have a portfolio of websites. He said seven right now, right?

Yeah, six or seven. It's under 10. Like I said, that one doesn't do anything.

Yeah, right.

I'm curious to just hear your model in general. Like you're thinking about it. Like, why portfolios? How are they managed? How are they kind of like diversified? If they are at all. Are they linked? I'm kind of just curious to go down that rabbit hole a little bit.

Yeah. So they're not linked at all. They're all on separate IPs and separate from each other. They have different Personas. For the most part, they exist separately. Now I do have multiple websites in a single niche. So a niche that I have gone and, you know, made relationships with people. For example, maybe I'm making 25% on something. I'll have multiple websites there and then I'll diversify with, you know, two or three other niches for other websites that may be paying a little bit lower. But just, you know, kind of to protect myself from niche explosion or whatever, what might happen, who knows?

Or one goes down, you're like, crap, there goes it all. Yeah.

Or like a manufacturer goes out of business. Like I can't rest my entire business on another business. So I've got to diversify a little bit.

But yeah. So do you always manage? Do you always keep like around 6ish? Well, you said under 10. So is that kind of you doing the management? Like, is that your job to kind of oversee that or do you have a team structure that helps you out here?

Yeah, I'd like to scale having some other SEO brain in There. But for the most part I'm kind of like a conductor. I do all of the research and build out the tasks for other people and they do the actual implementation. Now if I were to scale and get more than 10 websites, I would obviously hire somebody to take over my position and then I would be more of a onlooker management style. But right now I'm doing most of the coordinating but not so much of the actual work.

No, another, my brain just keeps going. Another question, is there a timeline with each one of these sites? Are you building them to sell them or are you just resting on them, keep growing them, nice cash flow and you're investing elsewhere or something like that?

Yeah. So selling websites, when I started, that was the most appealing thing. So generally speaking, flip prices. I know you talked to the guy from Empire Flippers a little while ago. It's 30 to 40 times what a website makes in a month.

That's what diggity is.

If you have a website making $1,000 a month, that is easily an annual salary for a lot of people. And getting to a thousand dollars a month isn't that, it's not that, that difficult. So from that perspective, I was definitely into selling them at first. But with selling them comes stuff like non competes. So if you find a really good niche, you essentially have to sell off everything all at once in order to not be part of that non compete. So right now I'm in a couple of niches that I want to kind of hang out in because they're pretty profitable. But once I want to sell them off, I'll sell off all of them and hopefully retire.

I guess that's the whole reason why you would diversify a little bit too. So if you sell a site, you can still be in business on another site.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Got it. I like the retirement plan early and invest your profits elsewhere or something, whatever you plan on doing.

Yeah. I have one site right now that's making about 30, 30 grand a month. So if I were to sell that, obviously the numbers would be amazing, but then I wouldn't be in that 30 grand a month niche anymore.

Yeah, kind of weigh in your options there. I like it. Very cool.

Well, let's shift over to affiliate marketing a little bit because one of the things that you were telling us offline before we hit record is that you've, you've sort of gotten pretty good at negotiating better commissions on the products that you do promote. So let's dive into that a little bit. Like, you know, what are you doing differently to try to get better commissions out of the products that you're promoting.

So this industry is full of people that like to hide behind their computers. There's some people that are fine with talking to people, but the majority of affiliate marketers, like I mentioned, they might have a social anxiety, they might not like talking to people. You have to get over it. You just have to get over it. So working with Amazon, you can make at this point, 3%. You get on the phone with somebody, you talk to them, you can make 30%. So the growth potential there is absolutely worth getting on the phone with people and then leveraging what you have to and knowing your value without overstating your value. So you have to compare yourself to other people in your niche. Don't act like you're the big dog on the street if you're a little fish. So be realistic there. But if you do have a decent amount of traffic, leverage it. So if somebody says they're offering 10% commission and you're getting 100,000 visitors a month, you're generating a ton of sales on Amazon. So ask for 20 and then negotiate back and forth.

So literally, it's just kind of open up a conversation, a dialogue with these folks and be honest. But if you have something good, like a lot of traffic going to your site, you're like, yo, I can help you out and probably take it off of Amazon or any other, maybe shareasale or whatever other website you find them on. Right.

And the interesting thing is too, so a lot of these starting commissions are for stuff like coupon sites. So people who are intentionally promoting deals, if you're not a coupon site, if you're a content site, you get more than that entry level just by opening up a conversation with somebody. You could take that 10% and not have to get onto the phone, start making money right away, great. But hop on the phone with somebody, you can make 15%, 20%, and you don't even have to have a ton of traffic for that. It's just their base level is based off people pushing deals. If you're not pushing deals, you're giving full price products, you have leeway. There's.

Yeah, I guess because as a content site, you're creating an audience, obviously a stream of people that are focused probably towards that product or what, a handful of products on a website. And so, yeah, coupon site, they're just, what, scattershot for whatever kind of deal, and they're just hoping and praying that they're gonna get some sales yeah, like.

Stuff like honey, I'm pretty sure they're an affiliate. Their entire business model is we'll get you the best possible price on a product. So if you're promoting stuff that way, obviously you're gonna get paid less because every dollar that you're taking off the price tag is money that you're taking out of your pocket in terms of commission. And they know that. That's why they start lower for sure.

Now, do you do anything special with tracking? Because I think one of the sort of. We do a lot of affiliate marketing as well, and one of the biggest pains in the ass around affiliate marketing is sort of the attribution tracking and being able to put a pixel past the conversion point. Do you have any sort of special method of tracking or is there a lot of sort of trust going on with the vendors you're promoting?

So I at this point only work with people that have share of sale or commission junction as the in between. And that covers all of the tracking and keeps you safe. And the manufacturers that you're working for, they get shut down if they don't keep their wallet full. Pretty sure. So essentially shareasale acts kind of like an escrow, so you're pretty safe working with stuff like that.

Gotcha. And can you put success pixels or something like that on it so you can actually track all the way through to the end of the conversion?

Yeah. So you can essentially put site tag tracking on it. So you can even go page specific. So let's say you were curious what specific page generated a sale. You can do tracking in that regard. I think that's kind of what you're asking.

Yeah, yeah. I guess what I'm asking is probably more geared towards if you're running like a Facebook ad or a Google Ad, that kind of thing. Right. Like you want to have that conversion pixel. So if I'm running an ad, I know that this ad generated this much in revenue and I could tell if the ad's profitable. But I guess it's a little less relevant when you're doing more SEO focused stuff.

Yeah. And with Google Ads, it shows up in ShareASL with the GCLID URL. So you're able to tell the attribution and I don't have to do anything. It's just the way that ads work.

Yeah.

I'm sure there's a more optimized way to do it, but at the scale that I'm at pretty small scale, you can absolutely tell what the ads are doing versus not.

Well, that's why I like the fact that you've built it in a way, like I said, small scale, so it's manageable, but you've just replicated the process. I know Matt Diggity. I think he does something very similar. Right. I mean, he has a portfolio.

He's pretty massive, though. He's more like. He's definitely the head of the snake and he has very, very intelligent, capable people under him that implement everything.

Yeah, that's what we were realizing when we got on the podcast with him. Like, wow, this is some next level stuff right here. Because that's a beautiful thing with affiliate marketing. Like, we totally approach it differently, like 100% differently.

But, like, everybody has their own style and it depends on that. It depends on your personality too. Like, I love SEO. I'm a total geek about it. I like doing the planning, doing the testing. Sure. I would love to make. I mean, I love making money, but at a certain point, like, I'm making enough to be comfortable, I'm happy. This is where I want to be. Yeah, no, I have time.

Props to you. I love it. No, I mean, my brain is empty of questions. I think I've exhausted my curiosity as of yet, but, oh, my God, this has been absolutely amazing. Julie.

What other exciting. I mean, is there anything that we can point people to of yours? I know you have the link building service.

I'm not really doing that anymore. I couldn't scale it properly. So if you were to check on the website, everything's sold out. I don't want to obviously sell something that I'm not able to get behind. So I am working on a course this year. I guess I'm committing to it. I have had it in the queue for about a year now, but I'm actually starting working on it this year, so I'm going to have that coming up. And I still do consulting stuff too. Cool.

And people can learn about that over@serp.decoder.com.

And then I don't. Don't laugh. I just got on Twitter too, so if I could.

Oh, you said don't laugh. Sorry.

I've been on.

I've been on Twitter for like 15 years, but I don't get on Twitter. So that's why you're an old man.

Are you in class?

I think I have a whopping 27 followers.

I'm trying to build that up.

It'll be 29 after this episode for sure.

Where do you see yourself, like, where do you see yourself going with after this? I mean, are you going to Stick with the portfolio, this model for a while. You have the course. I mean it sounds like that's probably just because you maybe you've been asked about it so many times to actually create a course. But like, what's your opinion?

I want to diversify a little bit because doesn't matter again how good at SEO you are. Google is a monster and they could knock out all of my sites tomorrow because that's the way that Google works. So obviously I want to diversify a little bit more, get more into ads and stuff like that and then obviously, obviously doing more consulting and.

Stuff like that to diversify a bit. But I'm hoping to sell off all my sites within the next 10 years and chill.

That'd be awesome.

I love it.

That's a great goal.

Hell yeah.

Yeah.

Sweet. Well Julie, thank you. You've been a friggin rock star and yeah. I don't know how many questions we asked you, but it was a lot. You might have hit the record.

Yeah.

Wow.

Really?

Yeah.

Whenever I get on with people, people just kind of, they just, they do this. I don't know if it's me.

Well, it's because you're fascinating and everybody just needs to know more and go deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole.

So it's just more curious.

If we weren't super curious, we wouldn't have a podcast. We're just fascinated by everything everybody else is doing and the grass is always greener and everybody has a better business model than us. But that's a story for a different day.

You're different perspectives all the time. Thank you very much. Yeah, and we'll stay in touch and be watching you from the sides.

Sounds good. Thanks guys.

See ya. Have a good one. Yellow, yellow, yellow.

Hello? Is that you? Are you there?

That was me with an echo. So that was another tactical mind bender.

I thought you were going to say mind something else.

No, mind bender.

Mindbender.

I don't know where you're going with things.

Mind bludge.

No, no, it wasn't that at all. It was a bender because it was good. I just like to hear the models. I mean, you know this, like if we have different models out there, we can all different ways to skin the cat, Matt.

Yeah, no, I.

Let's not skin cats though. But you know what I mean, we're.

Not supposed to do that.

We're not supposed to. So stop. PETA's after you.

I mean I don't have any more cats, but nobody told me to stop skinning them.

Hey now.

Don'T be alarmed. Matt loves his animals.

Yes.

He had cats for over 20 years and he loved every bit of it. Or something like that. Right.

Well, the fact that I had cats for that long, that part's pretty factual.

That's why you have a dog now.

But, you know, point being, having an animal that poops in a box in the corner of your house is not my favorite thing.

It's a little weird if you think about it. It's like, go poop in your box in my room over there. It's gonna wreak all over the house.

Especially since our most recent cat, Rip, I know. Didn't like to poop in its box. It liked to poop wherever the hell it wanted.

You know, he was just giving you the finger or the mitten? The middle mitten. Finger. He was like, it's been too long.

Giving me the middle paw.

The middle paw, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, we're not going to talk about that anymore. The point being is, you know, we've had so many different SEO folks on here and other people doing, you know, media sites like this or affiliate type things like this. And I just like the fact that you got Julie over here. She knows her personality, and then she also knows a business model that suits her personality really well. Sweet. Let's keep it simple and scale that bad boy to the moon.

Oh, I love this kind of episode.

Retire young, whatever it takes.

I love the episodes where we get into it and she, you know, and our guest is essentially like, here's my business model. And then they literally let us dissect it. Right. Like, it's sort of rare that that happens. A lot of times we get on, somebody will kind of break down their business model, but then they'll still kind of be protective of the sort of finer details of it. Julie, open book, like, no question. Seemed off limits. She was going to break it down. You know why? Because she makes her money doing the thing, not makes her money teaching the thing.

It's awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's like, yeah, you don't need to talk about the niche and all that stuff. That's cool. You know, total respect to that. But like, yeah, like, knowing the model, just spreading the wealth.

Yeah.

You know, it's another, you know, when I was thinking, like, the mind bender, it's really just another perspective change. You're like, cool, well, that's a new model I haven't thought of. Or a variation of a model. Yeah.

Well, this kind of model, I think we've talked about it quite a few Times. Right.

We talked about it in different ways.

A little bit with Greg L. Frank on an episode prior to this one. We talked about it with Matt Diggity. We've talked about it with.

Nate Robinson. Right. Broden. Broden. Who's Nate Robinson? Where'd I get that name?

That's not a real person that we've had on Dana Robinson, his partner.

I am blending their two names.

That's why. Yes, you are, Matt here.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I literally just did.

Yeah.

Nate Broughton talked about it. I mean, we've had quite a few people talk about this sort of content plus affiliate marketing business model, but I swear, every single time we bring somebody on.

A new like sort of synapse in my brain opens up or fires or whatever the scientific wording is.

That's the sound of your synapse going.

I get new aha's about the business model and new little insights every single time. Yeah, right, sure.

That's the beauty of this podcast. It's also the curse. We hear too many business models that sound amazing. Yeah.

But we'll get into this in our next therapy session of how we're shifting our business. We have a solution to that we actually like. So shiny object syndrome doesn't scare us the way we're going. I think we can lean into shiny objects a little bit.

We do now. Yeah. And I think that's. We'll bookmark that one for the next therapy session because, yeah, we have a better, much better framework to work within now to actually still dive deep into all these shiny object things but not have it consume us negatively. So, yeah, moving on. But Julie, I. I mean, it's so tactical. I think the big thing is like apply this how you can. You know, how you wish anybody can.

Listen to that episode and literally go, okay, I can. I can go build one of those now.

Sure. Or, or maybe you take her way of thinking even and apply some of what she put. Like just think of the mental model even that she is operating in. She's not trying to do paid traffic galore. She has Google Ads. But it sounds like more the reason why she wants that. It's because she just wants to make sure she's showing up in Google as best as possible and maybe even more so in mobile because that whole experience is different. But she's not going to go frigging run a bunch of Facebook ads. Doesn't sound like she's really worrying too much about email lists even and all that stuff, which, you know, you can obviously argue and Be like, cool. Well, you could probably make a double the money if you added an email list and a sequence and retargeting on Facebook and yada yada. But it's like. But is that simple anymore?

Yeah, probably not for her.

She wants to keep it lean and mean and profitable. Cool. That's rad.

Yeah, no, I think it was great. I think. And I really like her sort of philosophy of having, like, a portfolio of these sites and sort of have this diversity where if one site doesn't work well, she's got six other sites that are making her money. And, you know, and if she. She sort of bought herself time to build new ones and test new ones, she even said she might have one for, you know, seven or eight months that doesn't pan out, and then, you know, she got to abandon it. Well, that time's not wasted because you got a portfolio that's generating the revenue while you're building up this new one to experiment with. And so, like, it's really smart how diversified she is with it.

Super smart.

Little behind the scenes on this one. Yeah, we had a power outage right in the middle of it.

Oh, no, don't tell everyone.

I don't know. I think it's fun to kind of share some insights about, like, the freak out moment.

It's been super crazy windy here in San Diego for the last, like, day. And yeah, it was, like, flickering. And all of a sudden like.

Well, it's funny because I've had, like, sort of Internet issues coming into my house for a few months. And we've had some podcast days where, like, the Internet was really, really wonky. We finally got the Internet, like, dialed the hell in. So the Internet is, like, ultra strong.

You said you impressed the cable Internet. I did.

Talks guy that came out was, like, impressed by my setup. He's like, holy crap. But anyway, we got that all dialed in. So the Internet's like, super solid and we have a fricking power outage on the first podcast day that we're running on good Internet.

Matt, we were out for like five minutes. Yeah, if that.

It was probably more like three.

Not big deal. Your computer started up so fast, Internet came right back on.

But isn't it ironic? Don't you think? I do think it's like rain on your wedding day.

I mean, it's basically the same as that. Yeah, Yeah, I had rain on my wedding day. You did. I remember that it was hail, actually, but not during the wedding. But it was a good song. Yeah, I don't think we played that.

Song and it wasn't ironic, don't you think?

No, I think we. Well actually it was because it was the first time it rained in like 300 days in San Diego. It was on our wedding day, my wedding day.

I mean, it's kind of like if you had 10,000 spoons but all you needed was a knife.

I wish I knew more lyrics, but it seems like you really.

Those are the only ones I remember.

I would riff with you if I knew more lyrics of this song.

It was so ironic. Yeah, well, I was really do think I was listening to a stand up comedian one time who was talking about that song and he's like, those things aren't ironic, they're just kind of unfortunate, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's life, right?

Rain on your wedding day is not necessarily the definition of irony. It's just kind of like sort of an unfortunate event.

Time and place and weather and science. But you know.

Anyway, I took this conversation off the rails quickly. Yeah, so Julie was great.

I'm pretty sure you're gonna dig the notes on this bad boy. So the action guides, we're gonna do our best to, to make them nice and in line and action. They're always actionable. But you know, this one was probably even four times more actionable than others. So make sure you go grab them while they are free, which is only two weeks of this episode going live. So if you're a subscriber, you have an advantage. That's why you should subscribe to the show because you can get more free notes.

Dude, we can make like such a fricking book out of like how to build a content business that's a passive business. It's like you just combine the Matt Diggity notes, the Julie Adams notes, the Greg L. Frank notes, the Nate, Nate Broughton notes, the Dave Sinek notes. You just combine all these. You basically have like a book on how to build a content business that drives affiliate sales. And I mean all that by the way, is inside the Evergreen Profits membership. So if you're not a member, you can literally get access to all of those notes.

Exactly. Yes. And a lot of videos too. Deeper training from a lot of these folks. So you can get the notes for free, which is nice. But that's like, let's be honest, that's like tip of the iceberg.

There's eight newest notes, right? It's like you're not going to see if you're opting in today. You're not going to see the Matt Diggity notes. The Dave Sinek notes. The Nate notes. I'm not even going to say his last name because I'll botch it. My brain wants to flip their last names on me.

I mean, we can. I'll text him and be like, hey, hey, Dana. I think Nate took your last name. Yeah, Robinson. Yeah, sorry.

Nate Broughton.

There you go. Nailed it. So point being, get the notes for free. They are@flowchartgroup.com.

I forgot for a second there was a point.

Yeah, there was definitely a point there. You're acting more like me now. Hello, Mr. Tangent.

I'm not even high.

You might be.

I don't know who said I am.

I'm not. We don't podcast high on coffee.

And actually inside, I do not recommend this and this is another tangent. But I'm drinking butter coffee and I accidentally. Well, Greg. Greg from ambitious.com actually sent us some edge. I don't know the things over there, but it's like this like brain powder that gives you an edge. And Greg roulette. And I mixed it in with my butter coffee and it's like a berry flavor. So I've been. Sorry, Greg, I love your stuff, but this is a bad idea.

I'm going to try to mix one with water before our next podcast.

Yeah, I would recommend a sponsor.

He just.

He's not.

He just hooked us up with give us a free product.

This is totally botching our own call to action. But whatever. We like our friends.

So this is not sponsored. This is just some cool stuff called Ambitious Edge. Crafted for ambition, clean energy, intense focus, mental performance.

Where do they get that? Is it like ambitious.com or does he.

Have a URL on here?

I don't know. Just Google it. Or look up Greg Rollette. He's been on the show actually, so.

I can't read it. My lighting is really bad.

Eh, don't worry about it. People can look it up.

There is a URL on here. I'm just trying to find it.

I have laser eyes.

Yeah, it's literally ambitious dot com.

There you go. Get yourself some edge. It's good. Just don't mix it with butter coffee. I don't think the berry goes well. But you know what? I'm going to make it happen. So that's what I'm high on right now. On edge. You're high on edge and butter coffee. So to complete this very long call to action to our notes, if you actually wanted to get the free notes of this, I don't think this is going to make the notes. This Rambly section go to flowchartgroup.com make sure to plug in your email address. If you don't, you will not get the notes. But you'll get access to a Facebook group.

Yep.

So make sure you get both. Plug in your email address@flowchartgroup.com Be quick. If you're not quick, join the EGP membership. I mean, you should do that anyway because you get everything. It's 15 bones a month. A month or 59 a year? Come on, that's like $5 a month. Ridiculous. Less. Less. Yeah, keep saying less. Less. Yeah, it's like Flowchart Group.com Bye.

$4.99. 9 cents per month.

Jesus. We thought this is going to be a long or a short outro. So this call to action is our good buddies over@easywebinar.com so they're hooking you up with a sweet deal. If you are into webinars or if you're not, you should probably, definitely look at this tool because it should probably, definitely, probably definitely you should. Jesus. I'm like, through osmosis, feeling like I'm.

I'm pretty sure that edge is. I think the edge is giving you this edge.

I got distracted from you. Yeah, we're both in here. It doesn't normally happen. I'm just hungry, actually. So let's wrap this up. But Easy Webinar. So if you are doing webinars and you think you want to ramp it up, maybe try some other styles of webinars, maybe you want to understand more of the metrics and stuff that's happening during your webinars and stuff after they do it all. So it's like your centralized hub, your frigging brain center for everything. Webinars is at Easy Webinar and they're hooking you up with a fat discount@easywebinar.com hustle. And depending on the plan, you can knock off a pretty fat percentage off the rate. So go check it out. And other than that, subscribe, Share, review. Give some cool reviews. If you hate us, don't review it. Just turn this podcast off and don't tell anybody. Yeah, but if you're.

If you're going to give it a one star review, how about instead, just don't listen anymore? That'd be great.

That's all the feedback we need.

Yeah.

All right. Thank you for everybody who's lasted with our rambling. We love you.

Goodbye.

Goodbye.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode.

Of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast.

For taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice, simple note version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits. Com, find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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