Justin Schenck - How To Build A Platform And Connect With Anyone

Like, you can run ads all you want, but that's so pricey. You can do all these things, but word of mouth is the number one way. So what I always say to people is, impact the small audience you have to begin with in such a deep way that you're the third podcast they mention. And the reason I say the third one is because everybody listens to Rogan. So he says, oh, what podcast do you listen to? They listen to Rogan. And the second one usually falls in line, at least in the categories that I'm in. It's either Gary Vee or Lewis Howes or something on that level. Yeah, Tim Ferriss, whoever. And then you want to be the third one. Oh, and I listen to the growth and movement, or I listen to Hustle and Flowchart.

Right.

The reason being they. Everybody listens to the first two they mention. When you're the third one, they go, oh, what's that one? I have to check it out. Right. So serve your audience in such a deep way that you're talked about.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Mount Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hello there.

Hey, you're back again.

I am back again.

It's you. Can't get away from you.

Yeah, no, I mean, the intros that we've just got done recording are like two weeks worth of intros, but we're recording them all back to back to back. So it's like, so interesting to be like, hey, we're back again. But we just recorded another intro 30 seconds earlier.

I feel like whenever we're at the end of our podcast batching day, which we are right now, and this is our third episode intro that we're recording right now. I feel like we always have this conversation, like, hey, you're back. Like, okay, behind the scenes. Yeah, people are tired of them behind the scenes. Probably not.

No. This is.

This is the real stuff, the real deal.

This is what they came for.

All right, so what are we doing here?

So today we're talking to Justin Shenk.

Yes, we are.

Did I pronounce his last name right?

I believe he did.

Okay, good.

If not, he's going to correct us. Hey, I've had my name mispronounced. It's just Fire. Far too many times. I'm not going to correct this.

Yeah, I would say at least half the podcasts were on together. They call you Joe Fire.

I know. There's one. The other day you looked over at me, I'm like, I don't care. Yeah, it's all good. Whatever, like, it sounds cool. So if you. It could be fierce. Yeah. Justin. All right, so he has a whole brand, but mainly the podcast is how you can probably really get to know him. Obviously, other than this episode. Go to Growth now, movement, look it up in the podcast, players on the website, all that stuff. He has cool events online, virtual stuff, and we're actually going to speak at one of them. I think it's probably happening before this episode went live, though. Probably. We'll see if it hasn't. Go check it out. But Justin's an amazing guy.

Yeah. I mean, we cover quite a bit of ground because we have very similar business models. He focuses a little more on events where we focus a little more on affiliate marketing. But outside of that sort of differentiator, we're both very podcast focused and we're both very relationship building focused. And that's what we dove into. We dive into how he grew his podcast, how he, he, he is a very, very well networked guy. His podcast has had some like ultra celebrities on it. And so we dig into, like, how did you get these celebrities? How did, how did you get on their radar? And he gives some great advice there. We talk about, you know, the importance of enjoying the journey along the way and building all this stuff. So.

And even the value of having, you know, like a lot of folks. And this is a common thing when we advise podcasters, they say, I want to grow my podcast, I want to grow my podcast. But like, think about what you already have. Yeah, that's part of enjoying the journey.

But you don't need as many listeners as you think you need. If you're trying to do a podcast and we get into that pretty in.

Depth and hear it from another guy, that's not us talking about it. So, yeah, it's pretty epic to hear, like from his journey of 100 downloads per episode, which is very normal. But Justin exploded. But it took him over 100 episodes to get there. Yeah, but the end of the days, you don't need to quote, unquote, explode and get a bunch of people, but you'll hear his journey and what he's, you know, the behind the scenes of his journey. So, yeah, Justin, it was just like cool conversation all around podcast, how it relates to fan building, business and yeah, life, like really enjoying. We talk a lot about death.

Yeah, we do actually talk about. Yeah, we do.

That comes up a lot. A lot. But, you know, the pattern is because there's just like, just today Quick behind the scenes is like every single person had some traumatic shit they went through or they got diagnosed with something, or they had two people we talked to today went through the foster care system. Like what? Like, these are some rough upbringing. It's tough, and. And it's really cool to hear these stories, and it's just enjoying the path, you know, and there's so many cool lessons, but I'm just. Yeah, that's a commonality from today's podcast, for sure. Yeah.

Well, we'll dig in. You'll know what we're talking about once we get into it.

All right, so, notes. Matt, it's your turn to tell them about how to get them.

It's my turn.

It is your turn. Telling you now.

I thought we paper, rock, scissored for it with.

No, no.

Yeah. So you can go grab the notes for this episode if you're quick. You got to go get them within two weeks of this episode going out. But you got to go to hustleandflowchart.com comp. Hustleandflowchart.com. if you want to be hustleandflowchart.com Comp. You're supposed to say it three times, right?

I don't know. I'll say it twice. It's probably, like, seven times. So just keep going.

Hustleandflowchart.com comp.

All right. They're tired of it now.

Okay.

All right, so. Hustleflowchart.com comp.

Yeah, get the notes. You got two weeks to get them.

Yeah, yeah.

Ye.

Yeah. And.

If you want to be one of those weirdos that just type it in with short codes and numbers and stuff, 3-84-70. On your phone dialing, texting system, type the word comp and you'll get them as well. C O, M, P. All right, enough of that stuff.

This isn't a rambly intro, so let's just get over to Justin, because that isn't rambly. That's actually really good stuff.

That's true. Let's do it. Let's do it, Justin.

All right, Justin. How you doing, my friend?

Good, man. I'm so excited to be here. I love what you guys are doing with this podcast, and I'm just honored. I'm honored that you guys invited me on. And here we are, dude. So let's do this thing.

Yeah, it's gonna be fun. I think there's actually quite a bit of overlap in sort of how we approach business, so I think that this is gonna be a fun discussion.

I mean, just Your own podcast alone. Just the fact that we. Well, I've recorded it with you, actually. It's released as well.

Yeah.

And that's just, I mean, the growth now movement you have there, what you have offline stuff, that's all totally revamped now. I know you're doing virtual stuff. Hopefully, dude, that translates because it's crazy now. Right?

Well, that's the thing. I think everybody has to pivot in some way, shape or form. Like, and this is my test, right? Like, am I truly an online guy? I mean, a year ago I would have told you I had an online platform that transitioned into a regular type of business. Yeah. But now it's like, am I truly an online guy? Because that's the world right now, man. Like, if you can't pivot as an entrepreneur on the online right now, like, you're, you're going to be in trouble long term. I mean, I'm reading more and more about the COVID stuff and we can go down that, we can go down that track if you guys want. But like, Cuomo is planning on having schools in New York be virtual for a long time. He's cutting taxes to education. Like, it's. So prepare. Right. Like, you set yourself up in the right way. And I'm in the phase right now of pivoting and seeing how it goes.

Yeah. Well, take us, you know, let's get the background because, yeah, you're a podcaster, you have a platform, you do events. I mean, we don't really do events, but we have a lot of similarities. But you're doing some other stuff in different ways than we would. I think last time you and I chatted, you're dabbling or thinking about affiliate marketing as well as like a. Another what? Maybe another pivot in the business. So there's like, there's a lot of overlap here. Take us back. Like, give us a story.

Yeah. And yeah, yeah, man. So I was, you know, I'll take you all the way back and I'll fast forward into entrepreneurship as quickly as possible. But, you know, know, when you look back into my life and if you saw me in high school, if there was a senior superlative in high school for least likely to succeed, they would have given it to me hands down. I had a 1.7 GPA at the time. My mom was in the middle of a 20 year opioid addiction and my dad was in jail. And so all signs pointed to, like, you've got no shot. I think the statistics behind that are if your parents an addict, you have 50% chance of being an addict. If your parents in jail, you have a 50% chance of ending up in jail. So, like, I'm 100% screwed at this point as far as, like, where I'm going to end up. And at 19, I got introduced to self development. Somebody handed me a book called who Moved My Cheese? Which is still the book I recommend to everybody. Quick read, it's easy, holds your attention, and it changed my life. And it made me realize that no matter what is happening around me, I have ultimate control over what happens to me.

Right?

Like, what is happening for me in this life and so on and so forth. And obviously that's evolved, you know, with guys like Ed Mylett, who has become a friend of mine who talks about life happening for you and not to you. And I fully adopted that at a young age. And I really kind of started to carve my path, but really failed multiple times. I had multiple businesses that crumbled, that didn't take off, but I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Even though I did well in the corporate world, I ended up working my way up in medical sales, and I did well. I always had this desire to be an entrepreneur, and so I always had that drive. And so the end of the day, after three failed businesses, I said, let me start a podcast so I can have conversations with successful entrepreneurs and find out how they did it. Now, keep in mind, this is like four and a half years ago when not everybody was podcasting, Right? Like I think I said to you before Joe, I was like, look, when I started podcasting, I tell people I had a podcast and they go, what's a podcast? And now you say, and they go, oh, you too? Everybody has one now. And so what ended up happening was five months before I launched the podcast, my mom ended up losing her battle to opioids. And then I realized after she had passed away that it's not about the end result, because the end of the day, we're all chasing the same thing, and that's death, right? So we can set all the goals that we want, but we're all going to end up in the same place. And so say, my goal is a million dollars, right? So I'm going to go get a million dollars in business. Awesome. When I get there, what's going to happen is I'm going to go, okay, now I need 10 million. There's no satisfaction really in reaching those goals. And I've experienced that with the 300 plus conversations I've had with incredible people. On my podcast. And so I realized that it's really about the journey and understanding that you have to enjoy every moment, the rock bottoms, the growth moments, the successes you have to enjoy every single step of the way. And that's what organically my podcast became about. And when I focused on that part of it, my audience started to grow organically. I started to make incredible connections that changed my life. And I know Joe, we talked a little bit about that as far as like building relationships with the right people to make sure you're getting that success in life. And so it was really my rock bottom moment, was the trajectory for everything that I've done. The podcast took off. Inc magazine listed me as a top 8 podcast everyone should follow. I started speaking all over the country on podcasting and sharing my story and there was just so much involved and that really kind of grew my business across the board. And now to kind of break it down, what I do, I own a podcast production and coaching company. I'm a speaker. I own a live event called Growth on Movement Live now that it's gone virtual this year with COVID But it's really a bunch and I run a mastermind. So there's a bunch of things that have come from this truly heart centered project that I started not knowing what was going to happen and it became the business, I mean, almost became accidental. And now I'm just enjoying the journey, man. And I have more success financially, more success relationally. All these things in my life because of the podcast.

Dude, that's like so relevant to what our model. Because our model wasn't. Our business model wasn't like it is now without the podcast. Like it developed over the, you know, now it's almost four years of this show, 300 plus episodes. And yeah, now, you know, with us, instead of events and all that stuff, it's more affiliate marketing and partnerships. But it's really cool when you just kind of lean into whatever that that purpose is behind the podcast. And for us it's kind of evolved too. Then opportunities and things just start connecting. It attracts the right people, people like you. Have you kind of experienced that with the podcast? Being like this attracts the right kind of person for your biz. They become fans, all that.

Dude, it's non stop, right? It attracts the right people that are heart centered like me, right? So they, as far as a listenership standpoint, they want to attend my events, they want to join my mastermind, they want to do all those things. And then from the people I have conversations with, they end up becoming speakers at my event. They end up, you know, I've partnered with a couple of them in some way, shape or form. Some of them have become clients. So it all depends. But it's all organic, it's never forced. And so I like to say that I have not made a sales call in over two years and my business has grown exponentially in the last two years. And it's really based off of building strong relationships from a giving standpoint. I give unconditionally. I end every single conversation with the same thing, which is, you know, let me know how I can help you and it's genuine. It's not let me know how I can help you so I can get something in return. It's let me know how I can help you. And I've been able to become friends with these people that at one point I was super fans with, you know what I mean? And it's everybody from, you know, Fabio, Viviani, Ed Mylett, Bert Kreischer, which we talked about a little bit before you hit record, you know, all these things. And then the most recently was a really kind of a bizarre moment. So secretly I'm a wrestling fan. I've had wrestling champions like wwe.

Wwe. Okay, got it.

Yeah, yeah, like professional wrestling. And there's a YouTube channel run by a guy named Chris Van Vliet. He's a four time Emmy winner, but it's now he's a full time youtuber and he interviews wrestlers. I've watched him religiously for two years. I reached out to him on Instagram and I was like, hey man, I'd love to have you on my show. And he replied back, he's like, I'd be honored. He goes, I actually listened to your show. And so you find that like this full circle, these full circle moments of like, understanding. And I think this is a really important takeaway. No matter what business you're building, no matter what you're trying to do, whether it's affiliate marketing, whether it's a podcast, whether it's whatever, live events, public speaking, if you come from truly a place of purpose, passion and understanding of who you're trying to serve, the success will follow. Just show up and do those things first. And the success will follow might not be on the original timeline that you expected. I mean, it took me a year and a half to get more than like 100 downloads an episode, but it does tend to happen. As long as you stay consistent and keep showing up.

That's really cool. The fact that. And now that was prior to Inc. And all that stuff showing up, but, like, a hundred people per episode. Because, I mean, we advise a lot of different podcasters, startups, or ones that are just trying to grow, and almost every single podcast has that same exact story. But most podcasters or people that start podcasts don't tough it out. They don't see how that connects or how it can develop into what you just said. Stuff that we've experienced. Like, you can just, you know, with those hundred people listening, those are a hundred people that are probably your super fans or subscribers. They're going to tell their friends, but they're going to recommend, you know, they're going to buy your stuff and probably keep buying your stuff.

I mean, yeah.

What's changed, I guess, from, like, those days in terms of business and, like, what you were selling and all that to, like, now that you have a lot more people listening? Has the model changed or has it been kind of the same?

The model has been similar. From a podcasting standpoint, then we'll get into the business. But from the podcasting standpoint, if you go super early on into the podcast, every conversation I had was, for me, like, I was trying to figure out life. So I'd interview people that I wanted to learn from, whether it was getting better in business, getting better in relationships, getting better in health. It was conversations I needed. And what's pivoted from that standpoint is the audience has grown enough where I now serve them. You know, I find out what they want, and I show up for them in the best way possible by giving them the information they need and hopefully connecting them with the right people that they can continue to learn from. From a business standpoint, it's really just been the evolution, right? So, like, originally it was, okay, I'm interviewing these people that could become clients. And so great there, you know, I was closing them as clients. Now it's, I have this audience who wants to show up. And so that's where the live event came from. Like, I always wanted to build a community and bring people together, but it was really like, how do I first build that platform? Like, how do I first get the vehicle to do it? And the podcast was really the way to do that. And so as that grew, it then went, okay, I think I now have enough pulling power to say, I want to do a live event in my hometown of Reading, Pennsylvania, where there's no airport, and so it's a lot harder to get here. I want to do a live event, and hopefully enough people show up in the first year, we had over 150 people from 15 different states in Canada that showed up to this little town in Pennsylvania with no airport. And so it was really the evolution of what does my audience want? What does my audience want? I can't talk. What does my audience want and how do I serve them and how do I show up for them? And that's really kind of given me the path. But again, it's always fallen in line with what my purpose is, and that's to serve people, to help them get to where they want to go from where they are today. And that's three different ways. That's the mastermind, is the newest evolution of it. Before that's the live event, before that's the podcast production, so I can help them and build a platform. And so really the evolution of my business was you have an audience, how do you serve them? And I'm sure it'll continue to evolve. I mean, Covid is forcing me to evolve into a virtual type of event. So we constantly have to be listening while staying true to ourselves.

Yeah.

Talk about for a second enjoying the journey. Because I think that's a big realization that I think Joe and I have had maybe over the last 5ish years of like, we were always sort of, we put this goal up on a pedestal. Here's where we're trying to get to. And you know, we would hustle and we would grind and we would do everything we could to get to this goal, but we never stopped to look at like, wow, look at all these cool people that we met. Look at all of these relationships we built. Look at how much fun we had going to these events. And you know, the afterpart. Look at how much we're enjoying this along the way. We, for the longest time, we never stopped to appreciate that. And I think that's a big, big shift that we've had over the last few years is like, you know, we do have goals, we have things that we're striving to, but we're more focused on the present. How are we gonna make today amazing? So I'm curious, what are some of the things that you do to make sure that you're enjoying the journey along the way?

Yeah, I mean, I don't. So it's funny because this is called Hustle and Flowchart. Right. I'm not a hustler. I work hard, but I'm not the person who puts in 18 hour days. I'm not the entrepreneur who wakes up at 4 in the morning just to get to work. I do the things that serve me. And a big realization, like, it was funny, I didn't think about what is the connection between all these successful people that I'm interviewing? And finally I put it together, and I ask a question on every single show, which I say, what's your definition of success? And what are three things you do every single day to ensure that success for yourself? And what I realized was the three things that they do every single day was take care of themselves in some way, shape or form. It was always different, but it was always taking care of themselves, whether it's working out, meditation, reading, doing something that serves them and fills their cup. And I realized no matter if I'm working four hours in a day from working long days, I need to do something that feels good for me. And so every single day, I check something off that says, I served myself right. Like, I make sure that I can look back and there's at least one or two things where I've relaxed, I enjoyed the day. Like, right before this interview, I just smoked a cigar. So that's where I was for the last hour of my day. So, like, what do you do every single day to make sure you enjoy it? And I realized that when I was working for Company and I was working 7am to 7pm Monday through Friday, sometimes I'd go in on the weekends. The whole time I was going, I can't wait to be an entrepreneur, so I can wear what I want to wear when I want to wear it, do what I want to do when I want to do it. And so I very frequently will have a cigar in the middle of the day, because I can go do that, whereas before I couldn't.

Right.

It's those little things that entrepreneurs always go, I want to create the life that I want. I want the freedom. And then they become an entrepreneur, and they, like you. You were saying, like, early on in your path, like, you guys grinded so hard that you weren't enjoying it. Right? So, like, why don't you realize that you can do both at the same time? I think that's the biggest misnomer with being an entrepreneur. Is it hard? Yeah, it's really hard. It's stressful. Yeah, it's stressful, Right? Like all these things. But if you can find a way to step back every day, take a breath and do something right? Like, when I smoke a cigar, there's usually some meditation involved or whatever, but I do that every single day to reset and realize that, like, I'm on this Incredible journey. And I get to do what I want to do every single. And it's that constant check in with myself and realizing, sure, I've got big goals, but the truth is, and I realized this a couple of years ago, we can have these massive goals, right? Like, I want to fill an arena one day with my live event. Maskless, by the way, that is now in the goal. So I want to fill an arena for my live event, right? If I realized that, like, that's all I focused on, I'd be so terrified that I'd be paralyzed and I wouldn't be able to go do the things that I need to do to build up to that.

And even right now in Covid, you'd probably be pissed off and stressed. You're like, I can't even get to my goal right now if I tried.

Exactly. When you get so stuck on these big goals versus the small incremental wins every single day. I look back at every day and I check and I ask myself, did I grow 1% today? Did I grow my business? Did I grow my relationships? Did I grow whatever, 1% today? And that's all I need. I need that one verification of I move the needle a tiny bit and then I enjoy it, right? I take vacations when I want to take vacations. I do all those things that I set out as to say as an entrepreneur, I want to do this. And so I go do it like there's no questions asked. I live in abundance. I do well financially. I do all these amazing things in my business, but that's so I can serve the needs that I have. Because I've only got one shot at this life, and I better enjoy it. Because when I'm on the end of my life, I'm talking about death a lot. When I'm on my deathbed, right? And I look back and I go, did I enjoy the process? The answer is going to be yes. And I make sure I serve that every single day.

Yeah, I think death is very humbling. I mean, you and I chatted. I lost my father last year. That was a huge, massive pivot in my life trajectory. And just story and all that. But I know it brought up a whole bunch of other purpose things and even stuff that I haven't dealt with, but that now expose themselves. But also I was listening to a Sam Harris meditation or talk the other day, talking about death, and it was just like, slow down, appreciate, you know, actually love the people and the in, like your spouse, like actually, you know, our girlfriend, boyfriend, whoever Just love them and your kids. Like, actually appreciate what is around you. And even if it's physical, that's cool, too. Like, physical things. Like, you have a cool car. Fuck, yeah. Good for you. Like, but love the shit out of that thing, you know, because this is your chance. Yeah. And it'll make you kind of just makes death, I guess, just not as big of a deal if you're just like, right here, right now and taking it all.

I think having that sort of peripheral awareness that everybody around us is going to die, we're going to die, the people around us are going to die. That peripheral awareness, I think, forces you to appreciate everything that you've got right now. It's like when that thought pops into your head of like, oh, you know, I have kids. Like, oh, you know, I could lose them at any moment. So I'm going to appreciate the hell out of them right now. Because as of right now, they're here. And I think that peripheral awareness is a super powerful thing to always have. So, you know, to even push further on the topic of death.

No, and you're 100% right. Like, I think loss gives you the opportunity to slow down and realize what's happening right now. And that's actually something. And you guys were talking about some things that kind of reminded me. Like, that's something that I think was ingrained in me even before my mom passed away. Like, I. As a kid, like, and it's funny because we were just talking about, like, we had just recently moved and my girlfriend lived in this house for, like, five years. And she's like, I've got so many memories and all these things, but I've never had an attachment to physical things. Like, there's no. I don't care about cars. I don't care about houses. I don't care about things. Like, I'm not a minimalist, but I'm close to it, right? Like, I don't have many things because I just don't have an attachment to that stuff. And I realized because, like, when I was a kid, I watched my mom's car get repossessed. By the time I was 16, I had lived in, like, 14 different houses. Like, it was constantly moving and constantly, like, whatever. But I realized that even during those times, I was really, really happy. So the success that I have now in my business means nothing. Because I understand that what I have value in is my relationships, right? Like, with my girlfriend, with my family, with my friends, with my mentors. That's what I value the most. And so if we can find a way to remove all of the outside stuff, the stress melts away. Because all that matters is I could lose this house I just moved into one day, right? It could happen, but who cares? It's just a thing. There's a little bit more drive now because we have her kids living with us. So now you're actually supporting children. But at the same time, it doesn't matter, because no matter what, at the end of the day, we still have each other. And that's just such a huge thing to take away from this conversation. If it ended right now, this conversation ends, right? Like, that's. That's all that matters. And if people can tap into that, everything else changes in their life. There's nothing else matters at that point.

You're right. I mean, there's the perfect practice. You just reminded me because, you know, I think we mentioned there's a big fire kind of in San Diego area, and there were supposed to be last night, some gnarly winds that were supposed to push it up towards my house, towards Matt's house. And I'm pretty close to, like, the edge of some brush and stuff, so who knows? So there were evacuation orders and all that. And we were kind of looking at, like, for the first time ever. Holy crap. What would we take? It wasn't much. I was like, holy shit. I would even leave. I would just leave some stuff that I thought was important. I'm gonna bring my computer, but it's not that I need it. It's just, like, it's gonna make it a little easier. And it's just one more thing.

It's funny you say that.

It's just little.

Little documents and personal stuff, but other than that, not much, man. I was like.

We had the same exact sort of thing last night when I was like, ah, there's a chance we could get evacuated. What am I gonna bring? I was like, I'll bring my laptop and my phone so I could communicate and get some work done if I need to. But just important dogs and maybe some.

Pictures that weren't scanned or something of family and stuff. But that's. It's interesting, but it's a good perspective. It's like, yeah, maybe not minimalism, but, like, it's pretty damn close. I would say we're both in there. Even though we might have a lot of shit around us, it's just like, well, that's fine. It's just fun toys, like a minimalist mindset.

Not an actual minimalist thing. Right?

Yeah. Similar idea. And I guess rooted in the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

But I love.

I don't know even how we got to this point, but it's just.

I don't either.

Yeah. I mean, we're talking about enjoying the journey, right?

Yeah.

And that sort of led us down this path and we had this. One of our mentors is a guy named Marx Acosta Rubio. And one of the pieces of advice he gave us that I think was sort of game changing for us was to schedule all the stuff that we love doing. Right? Like what? Like, I like to play music, we like to get outside. I like. We like. We both like to exercise a lot, you know, so like plug that stuff into your day and then figure out how your business fits into that stuff, not the other way around. Everybody else does the other way around. Right. Like, this is the stuff I need to get done today. And if I have time, then maybe I'll play my guitar for a little bit. If I have time, maybe I'll get some exercise in.

Right.

But it really needs to be the other way around, I think, to enjoy the journey. Like do the stuff you love and then figure out how to fit business in.

Yeah. And Craig Ballantine, you guys had him on the show, right?

Yeah.

He talks about the same thing with the Perfect Week formula is like, what are the non negotiable? And they, by the way, the non negotiable should be the things that are attached to your heart, should be the date night. It should be those types of things.

Right.

You put those into your schedule first. And everything else is planned around that. Like, I've gotten really strict on the time that I take phone calls. And actually I just recently changed my voicemail on my phone. I stole this from Fabio Viviani. I changed my voicemail to say, hey, I know I didn't answer my phone. Please don't leave a voicemail because I'm not going to listen to it unless we had a scheduled time to chat. I don't answer. But you have my cell phone number. Shoot me a text and I'll get back to you. And what that ended up doing was it freed up my time to get the things done I needed to get done so I can then go enjoy life. Right. Because at the end of the day, as entrepreneurs, there's things you need to check off for your clients for whatever you need to check them off every single day. But I was getting distracted. I'd answer a phone call, I'd be on the phone for 45 minutes. Or whatever. And so now I tell them ahead of time, look, no disrespect, it's not that I don't love and care about you. It's that I need to get this. The things done I need to get done. And then if it's something important, you can text me and I'll call you back and we'll take care of what we need to take care of. But that was a game changer for me too, to understand that we need to own our time as entrepreneurs. And I wasn't owning my time. And so that was like a real. Like some of the texts that I got afterwards when I first changed, it was pretty funny.

What's a good one? You don't have to name my friend.

Terry being like, only an asshole like you would change his voicemail to say that. Right? Like, stuff like that. But the funny thing is Terry, and I'm going to send him this episode because I'm talking about him. But. But Terry is the person who would keep me on the phone for an hour every time. He's the one that I changed the voicemail for.

So it's like such an asshole.

I used to do little things like that. It's just little things like that that I'm like, I need to own my time because I'm allowing other people to own it. And then that has allowed me to own. That's allowed me to enjoy the journey.

Oh, it's a whole thing of like, now you're not reactive to. To people can't go into your sacred time, whatever that sacred thing is. It could just be you smoking a cigar in the. And meditating, thinking of your thoughts, seeing your thoughts, you know, like shit like, slowing down in general. You don't want some like. Like, hey, getting to my agenda now.

Only let the people in your happy place that you want in your happy place.

There you go, man. It's your sanctuary, whatever it is. I used to do something like that. It was a Tim Ferriss thing I think I swiped. I think it was on his podcast and it was before, I don't know. I think it was like, email me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like the text. Makes so much more sense because. Yeah, let's be honest. Like, no one loves even checking voicemail, so I think I'll probably swipe that.

Yeah, My dad's the only one who leaves me voicemail, so if I get a voicemail, it's my dad. He's the only one.

He's the only one. So this is just for you, Rick. You're the only one that get this far to hear this message.

Yeah. He doesn't listen to our podcast.

No, it's fine.

He probably couldn't figure out how to listen to our podcast.

He's the only one listening to your voicemail.

Yeah, that's the best. My dad tells me all the time, he's like. He's like, next time you're down here that he's in New Jersey, he's like, next time you're down here, he's like, you got to show me how to listen to your podcast. And I show him every time I'm down there. So it is what it is.

One day.

Let's talk about your podcast a little bit. A couple different directions we can go with this. Because I kind of want to know. This is something. Every time we have, like, a fairly prolific podcaster come on the show, I want to know sort of how they got there, how they grew it, what sort of strategies. But I also want to know, you know, how. How did you get connected to some of the guests? Like, how did this. Because we. We had an episode recently where we were sort of connecting the dots and figuring spider web of connections, and it was so fascinating to see who came from who and like, and how this network formed. So those are kind of the two rabbit holes that I'd want to go down. Agreed.

Let's do it.

So let's talk about. Let's talk about the podcast growth. You know, what have been some of the, like, the biggest needle movers for actually getting people to pay attention to the show.

Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of different ways that you can approach it, but the end of the day is when you look at podcast growth, word of mouth is still the number one way. Like, you can run ads all you want, but that's so pricey. You can do all these things, but word of mouth is the number one way. So what I always say to people is, impact the small audience. You have to begin with in such a deep way that you're the third podcast they mention. And the reason I say the third one is because everybody listens to Rogan. So somebody says, oh, what podcast do you listen to? They listen to Rogan. And the second one usually falls in line, at least in the categories that I'm in. It's either Gary Vee or Lewis Howes or something on that level. Tim Ferriss, whoever, Andy Frisella, those guys. Right. And then you want to be the third one. Oh, and I listen to the growth and movement or I listen to Hustle and Flowchart, right? The reason being everybody listens to the first two they mentioned. When you're the third one, they go, oh, what's that one? I have to check it out, right? So serve your audience in such a deep way that you're talked about, right? So pay attention to what they need and serve them. Second way is to get on podcasts that are on a similar level or higher level than you. And honestly, like, there might be five people that listen to your podcast that come and check out my show and then they binge listen, they become superfans and they grow that way and that's a great way to do that. And so those are the two top ways, right? Like when I'm not talking technical, like just get on shows, get people talking about your show. Now there are other things, right? Like consistency is key. Like that's something that I really, really preach. So I show up every Single Tuesday at 3am for my audience and I look at it like this. I'm humble enough to say that I'm not the best podcaster. I think I'm pretty good and I've definitely gotten really good doing certain things over the last four and a half years. But I also know that I'm not the best. So what happens is I become a part of their routine every single Tuesday or whatever day they decide to listen. So say it's Tuesday, right? I'm the person they listen to either at the gym or when they're driving to work or when they're doing whatever on that Tuesday, if I'm not there for them, they're going to find something else to listen to and that person's probably better and they're going to go stay over there. They're not coming back. So consistency is super key when growing the podcast because I found that when I disappear for a while, there's definitely some long term drop off, right? Like I've only ever taken one long term break and that was pretty early on. But when I relaunched, it was really starting from day one. It was like, okay, I'm rebuilding. I took about three months off, dropped a co host that I had and relaunched just myself. But that's when I started to implement stay true to your brand, right? Like my brand, my branding and the messaging we were doing because we were on. Me and my co host were on different levels. They weren't matched up. And so since that didn't match up, we weren't holding on to people. They'd come and find us somehow, right? Because Back then, there were a lot less podcasts. They'd come and find us somehow, and listen, they go, this is not what was branded to me. They're talking about something completely off kilter, right? So that's super important. So I show up as my brand, and then I showed up consistently, and then I started to grow organically from that standpoint, right? And I hit all those targets that I was just talking about. And then I learned that the people you surround yourself with, even in this game, which seems to be very, like, solo, like, right? Like when you're doing the podcast, you kind of feel like you're on your own kind of path, like, there's nobody else doing this with me, and so on and so forth. But I started spending time with other podcasters and asking them what they do. Like Jeremy Ryan Slate, I always give a shout out to, because he was the one that made me realize that podcasting can be your gig. He made me realize it could be a business. So I started to learn the ins and outs of the important things, started to join some masterminds that focused on podcasting, and really started to understand what are the things I can implement beyond just the idea of, like, okay, growth is important, but not that important. There's so much more that you can do. And then after I started to grow and started to grow a little bit of a semi cult following, INC Magazine listed me as a top eight podcast, and everything kind of blew up. That opened me up to a much larger audience. I found out that that Inc article got read 180,000 times.

Whoa.

And so I was one of. And I was one of eight on this list. And the other people were like, Andy Frisella. I think Tim Ferriss was on it, Lewis Howes was on it. And there's this other random show, and that was mine. And so I forexed my audience overnight. And the other thing is, though, I kept that audience. People can have spikes in podcasting, as I'm sure you guys have seen. You have spikes because you did something or you showed up somewhere or whatever. But then those people end up a lot of times, for most people, those people end up dying off because they're not consistent, their branding isn't on point, all of these things. And so there's a mix of a bunch of different stuff, right? Like, I was also podcasting for two years before INC Showed up. And so there's a lot that goes on into the space. But I guess I've shared a number of tips, right? Like, show up, be consistent. Branding on Point be, you know, make sure you're serving your audience like those are all things that you can do. And of course, there are things beyond that as well, but those are the main focal points. And understanding, be patient, like, especially now, like, there's so many podcasts. You're not going to grow a consistent audience for most people unless you're already a big brand name. You're not gonna grow a solid audience till you at least get to episode 100, because people aren't gonna waste their time with you until you know that you're wasting your time. They're going to make sure you're going to show up for them, for them to truly commit to listening every single week.

Very selfish. But they should be, of course.

Well, it was funny. I was just on a podcast and I said something that I actually said at PodFest when I spoke at the last one, and there's a room, I think there's like 160 people in my breakout room. And I go, one of the first things I said were, podcasters are the most selfish, egotistical people I've ever met. Now, keep in mind, this is a room of 160 podcasters.

They ran.

It's ridiculous, but the idea is that people have this podcast and they think they have this incredible platform where, oh, I'm gonna introduce you to new people and blah, blah, blah. But then you realize 80% of shows do less than 100 downloads an episode, but they still have that ego. And I'm like, what are you doing? The people that you really want to have a conversation with. The play is. And I'm gonna build your platform. The play is, hey, let's serve my audience. Yes, right. Like, let's do something really great. Let's inspire some people together.

And if you can get out of your own way. I think people want to be involved with what you guys are doing. Like, you guys are super humble. Matt, you're coming on the show here. My show, shortly. But, Joe, we had a 45 minute conversation on my podcast, and I know what you guys do. I know that you serve your audience. I know that you do all these things, and that's why you have the success in podcasting. People have it backwards. They're trying to serve themselves a lot more than they're serving others.

Yeah. Thank you. And you evolved. Like you said when you started, it was about you more so the podcast. And I think it was for us as well.

We used to say it on our show. We're like, this is the selfish podcast in the business Space. We're bringing on people that we want to pick their brain for our own business. But over time, I think we had the same shift where it was like, now we're bringing on people that we want. So the show now is more like we want to introduce good people to our audience, but also we want to talk about the things that we've learned our audience is really interested in. So we've had a very similar shift. We don't call it the most selfish podcast in the space anymore because it.

Doesn'T feel that way, honestly. It's more of the giving. And I think that's why, um, even going on podcasts, other podcasts. Cause we guessed a lot as well. I'm curious your thoughts on this. Cause we kind of had this, I don't know if it's a breakthrough or not, but realization like, okay, there's general shows out there, there's general business shows, there's general self improvement shows. And then there's very specific things like, okay, there's business for SaaS founders. There's all these very things. And we kind of realized and we don't have any like perfect data on this. We're like, okay, well we can guest on maybe not other general business shows because that's kind of what we are. Or general marketing show, I guess. You know, like, let's go a little bit more specific. So like go on that SaaS show that like we can attract them with our personality because we have more of this broad spectrum, not just this kind of micro, you know, laser focused thing. Do you have a strategy around that? Because I'm thinking if you kind of pair it up that way, or even if you have a specific show, go to a general show kind of thing to retain listeners rather than just get some and then have them drop off because it's kind of pointless then.

Yeah. And I mean, and like I said, most podcasters get that, right? They might get some, oh, I had a huge spike today. I'm like, yeah, well what happened? Or yesterday, well, what happened today? Right. People aren't sticking around.

Sure.

Yeah. I mean, I think for me, like, I'm not overly specific. And here's the thing, a lot of people ask me to be on their show to talk about podcasting. And so I'd say about 80% of the shows I've been on, like I'm the first five episodes, right. So it's like, okay, cool, I know you have 30 downloads, but I'm going to show up. But I've been really intentional over the Last six months I set an intention about between four to six months ago, I said I want to get on, I want to be invited onto platforms of people that I truly respect. Right. I want to be invited, I want to give to their audience, I want to pour into them and the people I respect are the same people that are in my space. Right. Like so just recently after setting that intention and working towards.

David Meltzer was just recently on my show. But I was also on one of his shows. He's got multiple. I was just on the one called Office Hours and then I was just invited onto his main podcast. And so for me I've now gotten really intentional and truly reaching out to like the epic top tier podcast to say, hey, I want to serve your audience. And actually that happened through introduction by giving to somebody else. I then got introduced to David and then, and David liked me and I got invited on and so that was a huge win for me. But again that's all about like setting those goals and then those one percents every day to get there. But that's so I've gotten just really intentional about it lately. I'll still do whoever, pretty much whoever asked me on as long as their intention is the right coming from the right place. I'll still do most podcasts. But yeah, I mean to be in the same space I found is the way to go. Like, you guys are a little bit more broad. So am I. But like if I had a fitness podcast, I don't really want to go on one that's talking about tech. I'm not going to get any of those listeners. Yeah, but you and I like your show and my show, it can get broad. Like right now we're talking about enjoying life, you know what I mean? We can get super broad. So I don't mind going on certain shows. I've been on health shows and I'm far from the six pack abs, you know what I mean? And so, but a lot of that is self development crossover. So as long as there's some sort of crossover and I feel like I can add value to their audience, I'll do it.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, it's just interesting. And we're still kind of open. We're just like, okay, well there's always a strategic element to even the guesting because of like, hey, we want to retain these people because the intention is to carry them with us on our journey. But they have their own journey. We can provide them value because yeah, you can do a lot with the people who are listening. Who are your actual fans? I mean, you can create a. An amazing business, amazing movement. And there's the whole thousand true fans concept. You know, you could just apply that to a thousand people listening to your show or even micro 100. That's fine, too.

Well, and from a business standpoint, too. Steve Ulcer, a mutual friend of all of ours, I think he constantly talks about how his podcasts are actually pretty dang small, but they're big enough to drive as much money as he needs. And I do think. I do think too many people get hung up on, like, the podcast download numbers. I've sort of referenced this on the show before. I think I actually see a picture behind you. Sean Stevenson.

So Sean Stevenson. I remember there was a quote from him. He was speaking on stage at one. At one time, and somebody came up and asked him a question and said, you know, I've got a YouTube channel, and my videos only get, like a hundred downloads every time I put a new video out there.

Right.

And how would you grow your show?

Right.

How would you grow your YouTube channel? And he was asking this advice from Sean, and Sean's response was something to the effect of this, you know, I'm probably butchering it. But he essentially said, you know, you're getting 100 downloads or you're getting 100 views on this video. If a plane went down tomorrow and there was a hundred people lost on that plane, would that be a big deal? And he goes, yeah, of course it would. So he's like, why aren't you focusing on the souls that you are getting in front of versus the souls you're not getting in front of?

Right.

And I just thought that was, like, such a powerful thought around things like YouTube and podcasting and stuff like that. If you have even the smallest audience, think about them. Don't think about who you don't have yet.

Yeah, no, you're 100% right. Just pour into whatever those people are. Right. And a story that I share often is when I was doing, like, 30 to 40 downloads an episode on the regular, unless we had, like, a bigger name, it would spike for a split second. But say 30 to 40 downloads an episode, I had somebody reach out to me and say, because of a story that you just shared on your episode, I decided not to take my life.

Whoa, jeez.

And so that's the power in showing up for. Even if it's five people, you could save a life. You could make a difference. You could give. Look, let's take it out of the emotion, right? Like, you can give somebody the tip that changes their business forever. That person's forever indebted into you for a really long time. Whereas I've had clients whose podcasts get to the 150, 200 downloads and episode mark, and they're like, I'm not doing anything. These people are public speakers. And I go, would you show up every single week if you had a room full of 100 to 200 people? Well, yeah, of course I would. Well, then why aren't you doing that for your podcast? Like, we live in this weird world, and this relates to social media, too. People are so worried about how many followers they have, like, keep showing up. We were so worried because we're not Joe Rogan or we're not this person who bought 40,000 Instagram followers and all this other crap that's involved in social media. Like, guess what? Even the top people. And this is a new breaking news. Even the top people have bought a lot of their followers.

Oh, yeah.

Like, that's just the reality. But they feel like they need to keep up the pace. I spoke at an event one time, and I've got something like 4,800 followers on Instagram, right? So, like, 4,800 followers on Instagram. And I. I spoke at this event and I was talking about the podcast and all these things, and, you know, went to Q and A. First question, guy raises his hand, stands up, he goes, my question for you is, if you're so great, why don't you have more people following on social media?

And I go, because I didn't buy. And I said, because I didn't buy them. And every single person in the audience goes, oh, sat back down. But that's the reality. I don't care who's following me as long as what they're hearing or what they're getting from me is making a difference in their life. I don't care if it's, you know, 10,000 or if it's 200 or I don't care. I'm going to continue to serve them. And people have this backwards idea of, like, when I get to X amount of followers, I'm then going to serve them. Them. You're missing, number one, you're missing an opportunity from a business standpoint. But number two, you're missing an opportunity to change your life. And if you're not doing something in your life to change a life, then what's the point?

It's true.

You know what I mean? If you're just chasing dollar signs for your own self what's the point now? If you're helping other people make dollar signs so they can put a roof over their head so they can feed their families? Great. That's huge. That's a huge impact in the world. You've changed not only your life, you've changed an entire family's life. Life. But you need to take it outside of yourself. People are so worried about themselves. It's kind of disturbing.

It sounds like there's like a helicopter right above us right now, like, on the roof.

Oh, Jesus.

Hopefully they're not. They might be. Scooping the water out of my pool literally is distracting.

I think that's what I. When you guys looked up, I was like, did the wind shift?

No, I know.

Like, yes, there's a helicopter, like, ultra low over my house right there.

Sounds like they're about to land on us.

That's crazy. I can't hear it. Just so you know, but that's crazy.

Great microphones. No, we're just making it up.

Actually, I'm not even gonna edit that out either. That's. That's staying in the show.

No, but exactly. And I was listening to what you were saying because that was a massive point. I mean, that's it. It's. The most important point is show up for the people around you. And you mentioned the social media thing, and it immediately made me think of, like, the likes, you know, the different likes that you'll have when you put something on social media. And like, for me, you know, when I put something on Instagram, I'm. Or no sorry, LinkedIn, I ain't gonna get that many people over there liking it because I haven't focused on cultivating my audience over there. But shit, I might get 10. And those 10 people, like, I'm just kind of like, eh, cool. 10 likes. All right. Instagram, I'll do better. Facebook, I'll do even better. But like, what the fuck? Like, those are 10 people that are, you know, probably connected in some way. There's always opportunity. Like, it just takes one, and you can change that life. Any opportunities can come from those people, but we disregard them. And that's a common thing. And I'm sure you get it too, is like, hey, how do I grow my podcast? And this is kind of the conversation I always have to give them. It's almost like. It's harsh. I don't know. It's like tough love in a bit. It's like, hold on, squeeze more of what you got. You don't need to squeeze them. But the folks you got, man, do something about it.

Don't be real good to the people that are listening to you. The people that are listening to you are gonna tell other people to go listen to you. That's just how it work.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, stop focusing on going out and getting more people and start focusing on locking in the people that you have.

That's it.

Like, that's. Look, before the Internet, we didn't have anything other than a local meetup with all the business people to try and get clients right. And every time those people showed up, it's the same 30 people, but they kept showing up because that's the one avenue they had. So why are you not showing up online for those same 30 people, 100 people, whatever, and giving them more value to the point where they go, I can't take it anymore. I need to hire this person so they can help me. Like, that's just the reality. And so people ask me all the time, like, hey, what are the things I need to do to grow my audience? Because obviously, this is what I do. I do podcast coaching. I will literally say to them, let's think about how we can serve the ones you have now. And then I watch their eyes kind of get big and they're like. I didn't even think about that because everybody's caught up in what society is telling them they need to do, which is grow.

You got to grow more and more and more.

Thought leader. You have to have huge. You have to have huge amounts of followers, et cetera. Almost every single event I've attended. And even though. And it's one thing I always like to say, is that even though I speak at events, I still buy tickets and go to events as well, because I'm never done learning. But every single event that I went to, I learned the most from the person I've never heard. Heard of. Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

The person who doesn't have tens of thousands of followers because they go a mile deep versus a mile wide.

Yeah.

They're scrappier. They're not just like, yeah, stay in service level and everything.

Yeah. And he's probably the. And if we.

Look.

If we're going to make this about money, he's probably the richest guy on the stage, too.

Probably happiest. He's not complicated. He's not doing some corporate bullshit like stacking a massive team to, like. He's. He's cool. Yeah, she's cool.

Once you start getting some peeks behind the curtain, too, you do start to realize that some of the People that have the biggest followings that you think are probably the most successful people that you're paying attention to, a lot of them are probably not as well off as you think and are probably behind the scenes struggling. And you can't, you can't look at social media or followers or even download numbers as like a gauge for how successful somebody is. They just don't compute because people cheat. You know, people cheat and people, people can build big audiences but don't know how to monetize them. Like, it's. You're never getting the full picture. And so I wish that would be my, My one wish of people starting podcast and getting on social media is, you know, stop trying to compare yourself to where other people are showing you that they're at, because where they're showing you that they're at is probably not actual reality either.

No. And look, look, there's a ton of quote unquote influencers, and I hate that term, but there's a ton of influencers who go, I made multiple seven figures. I brought in multiple seven figures last year. Yeah, well, how much did you spend to do that? And a lot of them are breaking even, if not losing money. Whether that's spending money to grow their Instagram, whether it's running ads to get the people to buy their course, they're not making money. Like, they're not actually profiting money. Like, I wish people shared what they profited before I did a live event. My Profit margin was 97%.

Oh, yeah, events would take that down quite a bit.

Yeah, events, event hurt it a little bit, but that's just the reality, right? And so, like, what I was bringing in, I was truly pocketing, like, I was netting that money. But everybody's out there shouting out their gross. And I don't care about that. Like, that's not true success. If you're losing sleep at night because you just spent more money on ads today than you made, then I don't want that life.

Too much stress, man. And you're right, it's false advertising of the business too. It kind of sucks if you think about it. A lot of people starting, even in a podcast land, you hear all these download numbers, whatever it might be, that's probably their best month ever. They'll say, oh, I've had 30, 50,000 downloads in a month. It's like, great. Was that a spike? Maybe, I don't know. It just puts all these false same with a gross number. Like, oh, I do seven figures. My business multiple seven. But you're you're not taking anything home. You can't pay for food or whatever. I mean, that's aggressive example. But it puts these false impressions in, I think, these people's minds. And I think that might be what's happening with podcasting. Trying to grow a show over and over.

But, oh, for sure.

How about the guests? That was the other thing.

Yeah.

While we still have a few minutes left here, let's chat about how. Because you've got a pretty impressive lineup of people you've had on the show. So I'm kind of curious. And I mean, the one we were talking about before we hit record was Bert Kreischer, because, you know, in the business space, I don't. Really doesn't compute to me. Bert Kreischer on, you know, talking business and stuff. But, yeah, how did some of those interesting guests happen?

So Bert Kreischer didn't talk about business. It was just an we.

Literally.

I think that the title of the episode. Let me read it. Hold on.

So it's called the Art of Storytelling and how not to Lose youe Virginity. Like, that is the title of that episode because we both shared our losing our virginity stories on it. So if people want to go listen, it's on there. But I made it about storytelling because I love the way comedians tell stories. So that's my job as the host. If I want to interview somebody, I'll interview them. I'll find a way to make it interesting to my audience at times. But, yeah, so how I did it. So I started out pretty early on. Reaching out to big names. Not really. I think at first it was being naive. Like, I didn't realize. Like, I just thought these people wanted to do podcasts. Right. Like, I was like, oh, it doesn't matter what I'm doing. I'll reach out. And then it became kind of a skill, and I started reaching out through all different things of social media. So every single social media you're on, I found somebody. LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. I've reached out on all platforms. I've gotten people from all platforms, and I send them a quick message. And there's one line that I use that I found to be the golden ticket to getting these individuals on. So I go and I kind of tell them about my show, and I tell them why I want them on the show. I tell them I do it over zoom. This is less effective now with COVID but I told them I do it over zoom so there's no travel required. And then I finish it by saying, I would love it if you could take some time out of your day to inspire my audience. And I take them out of the equation, and take me out of the equation. I make it about people. I make about other people. And I think that's always been the secret. And they say yes, and it becomes like, this crazy thing. But the big switch, going from every once in a while having a bigger name to pretty consistently having bigger names. So I had gone to an event out in Ohio, and one of the speakers was Fabio Viviani, and I had no idea who he was. I just found out he was a chef. I don't watch tv. He was from reality show called America's Top Chef or Top Chef or whatever. And I was like, who cares about a chef? But this event didn't tell you when the speakers were speaking. They didn't tell you who was up when. And then I actually stole that for my event because I loved it so much. But I saw Fabio speak, and I turned to my friend after saying, who cares about a chef? And after his talk, I turned to my friend and I said, I need to be friends with that guy. And what ended up happening was I got introduced to a guy who wrote a book who the forward was written by Fabio. And so after the interview, I asked him if he would introduce me. He goes, yeah, he's like my best friend. He does whatever I tell him to do. And I was like, great. So Fabio came on the show at the end, he goes, you're really good at this. Who do you want to interview? And I was like, frozen. I was like, I don't know. He goes, I'll introduce you to people. I'll introduce you to people. He then introduced me to 50 people individually via email. Andy Frisella, Gary V. Who still has yet to be on the show, but. But Nick santinostasso. I was actually Nick's first podcast interview ever. He now shares the stage with Tony Robbins two years later. But, like, all these big names, and then it became, I do these interviews. I finish by saying, like, I do every conversation. Hey, if there's anything I could do to help you, please let me know. Sometimes they say, hey, do you know this? Or can you help with this? And I can a lot of the times. And then they end up introducing me to people. And so it's become this great network of, like, hey, I really like what you're doing. I love your mission. I love your message. Let me introduce you to some people. And so the chain to Burt, by the way, was Fabio Introduced me to a comedian named Zane Lamprey who hosted a show on travel channel called Three Sheets. Zane came on the show and I said to him, yeah, Fabio introduced me to like 50 people. And Zane goes, well, I'm better than Fabio. I'll introduce you to 50 people.

Oh, my God.

He didn't introduce me to 50 people, but one of the people introduced me to was Bert Kreischer. And so he introduced me to Bert via email. And then it was like he came on. It's my longest episode to date. I think we had a great chat. And now I'm one of. This is my big claim to fame. If I die tomorrow, this is it right on the Tombstone. I'm like one of 800 people that Bert follows on Instagram. So I'm gonna take that to the grave with me. But honestly, like, it's really been about building relationships. And I would say, like, if somebody said, hey, what's your, what's your superpower? Mine's building relationships because I approach everything with the greatest intention. Super authentic, super real. And I say, let you know, let me know how I can help. And that's a genuine, you know, a genuine give or genuine ask, I should say. And what ends up happening is relationships form, right. And then they end up introducing me to, you know, a bunch of other people. So it started out and still is at times a reach out, but a lot of times it's, it's introductions now and it just becomes like this eternal network of people.

And then one thing I'll say is if any of your listeners or even you guys know, my one big person that I want to get on right now is Andy Grammer. Yeah, you guys have like your hundred list, which I have to re. Go back and look. There were a couple people that I could actually think. I think I can make an introduction for you guys. But, but, but Andy Grammer is my. I've wanted him on my show for years. I love his story. So, like, that's the big ask. Nobody I know knows him. And I'm like, what?

Well, put it out there. Any listener. Yeah, if you're listening right now and you know Andy Grammer, hook it up. Hook Justin up.

Hook it up. Let's make it. Let's make it happen. I've gotten close a couple times, but sometimes it's the grind, it's the follow up, it's all that stuff. So there's a bunch of things there. But the end of the day, it's how can you build strong relationships by serving? And the Rest takes care of itself.

Yeah. I mean, that's pretty much the identical philosophy that we have when we approach our podcast. And for us, we have a very similar story with Roland Frazier. We've shared it a bunch of times on the podcast, but he told us to make that dream 100 list, and then he went and introduced us to 25.5 of the people on that list. And that is literally the catalyst of how we got bigger and bigger and bigger names on our show.

It doesn't take much, but it's just. Yes, it's all the relationships. And that was why our 300th episode was, like, almost two hours long or more. And it was like most of it was just thanking people for the connections, and it was like, this is so cool. And I know we left so many people out of the episode too, but. Yeah, man. So there's so many shared cool things. And once Covid wraps up, hopefully we can share a stage together and just hang out wherever.

Soon I feel like it's going to be soon, early 2021. Something's going to pop up.

California seems to be moving in slow motion compared to the rest of the country, but, yeah, yeah, we'll see what.

Happens after the election.

Yeah, that's a very good point.

Oh, yeah, we were going to talk.

About COVID but let's wrap it up.

But by the way, real quick, before we wrap it up, I will say this. So I shared something out on my Instagram story about COVID By the way, I'm not a crazy conspiracy theorist all the time, but at the same time, and yes, I know Covid is a real thing. I'm not saying, and it's terrible, people are dying from it. But I shared something out about the CDC stating only 6% of the people died actually from COVID and it got flagged. First post I've ever put on any social media. That got flagged, it got flagged by Instagram. Ever since then, we talk about getting the likes. My likes have been terrible.

Whoa. You broke the algorithm in a bad way for you?

Yeah, they. They put me in a bad place in the algorithm, so I'm just waiting for them to open me, open me back up. It's nuts, man.

Yeah, that's crazy. I haven't heard a story like that. So beware anyone out there.

I've heard of stories. I mean, like, Donald Trump himself has gotten tweets taken down off of Twitter and stuff.

But, yeah, don't mess with the overlords. Zuckerberg and Twitter, all those guys, they'll.

Take you down real quick.

Yeah, they power.

All right, so I know this is probably after your event is already live, but how can people connect with you, listen to the podcast, check out future events and stuff like that?

Yeah, Honestly, wherever they're listening to this show right now, if they want to search GrowthNow movement, they'll find my podcast. I would love for them to check it out. That's really my heart and my soul, every single conversation I have on there. And then if this is probably post virtual like you said, but the live events will always be coming, then connectnowmovement.com and get some more information there. Right?

Cool. Justin. It's like a brother from another mother. Mothers. I don't know. There's three of us. This is weird. All right, so thank you, brother.

Dude, thank you, guys.

Hey, hey, hey. Thank you for listening to that episode. This is Joe Fear. I'm sure you probably already knew that. And Matt is not here right now, but I'm pretty sure he enjoyed the episode just as much as you and I did because, you know, he went into the production of kind of making that thing right along with me. So thank you very much. And I want to give a quick shout out to our buddies over at Easy Webinar. These guys have been supporting us for a while, a long time, and Casey Zieman is just a super good guy all around. He's actually been on the show before. He's the founder of Easy Webinars. So if you look up Casey Zieman on any podcast platform you're listening to, go check him out. Go check out his backstory, what he's all about. You can learn a lot about webinars as well. And right now, Easy Webinar, these guys are actually hooking you up with a great trial. It's a completely free trial to test out their software, Soup to nuts. Check it all out and see if it's a good fit for you. If you go to easywebinar.com hustle, that's H, U S T L E. If you didn't know how to spell hustle, there you go. So if you go to EasyWebinar.com hustle, you can go grab a free trial. And EZ webinar literally lives up to its name. It. It's super simple. I mean, super easy, and it does all the stuff that you're looking for in any kind of thing with webinars. I mean, they literally cover every single type of webinar you possibly can do. So from live to automated to scheduled at specific times and all these crazy features in between. Can't even list them all out. I'll be here way too long. They give you a ton of advanced analytics. What's working, what's not. During your webinar, based off all these actions, you'll see who attended, how long they stayed, if they clicked the offer or if they didn't. Basically, you're gonna make more money and you're gonna work less with this thing and you're gonna create better relationships with the folks that are listening. Cause it's a good experience. You wanna give that good experience along with some great content, of course. And a killer offer if that's what you got for them. So go try it out yourself. Go check out easywebinar.com hustle. That's easywebinar.com hustole. Alrighty. Ready? So that is the end of this episode. Thank you so much, so much for listening to this episode, enjoying it. Hopefully you did. I'm pretty sure you did, if you lasted this long. And go check out easy Webinar when you get the chance. And we will talk to you next time. Bye bye.

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