Los Silva — How To Be An Influencer On Instagram

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flow chart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Voice.

I'm losing my voice.

Matt, you're losing your voice. What a great way to start a podcast.

Well, technically, we already ended the podcast. Yeah. Shh. Our podcast process is backwards.

Don't let people peek below the kimono.

Below it. Yeah, just not up it. Don't lift it.

Yeah, don't look below it.

You can look below. Look at my toes. They're fine.

Hairy.

All right, moving on to today.

We're Talking to the Mr. Los Hustle. Lo Silva.

That's right. It's a cool name. I think one of the best names. Lo Hustle.

Yeah. Well, his. His branding is Los Hustle, but his name is Lo Silva. And we. This. I really, really, really enjoyed this conversation. We kind of segmented into two. Two sections.

So first one being all about the team.

Yeah, first one being all about the team. Like, we were interested because he scaled a good sized team that's like, really good people really fast.

He built 25 people in one team, and I think another team had 30, ish, 40.

And he did it fast. They're all good people. And his company runs like a Swiss watch now.

These people. He's hiring bartenders, hairdressers, and whoever.

Let him tell us that.

Yeah, but I'm not giving anything away.

Well, that was a big spoiler.

Well, now I just opened loop. How's he do it?

Okay, anyway, so we talk about the team building, and then part two of this conversation, we get into, like, influencer building.

Yeah. On. On this little thing called Twitter. No, I'm just kidding. Instagram.

Yeah, mostly Instagram. We did touch a little bit on YouTube and Facebook and stuff, but mostly talking about building influence on Instagram and becoming, you know, just growing a massive following on Instagram and then how to leverage that following once you've got it. Some really, really cool ideas. Like, you know, we've. We've experimented with Instagram, and some of the ideas he presented we'd literally never heard of. So really cool stuff.

Here's what's different about the Instagram. Not giving away too much, Matt. Don't worry, he's giving me the eye.

Everyone, spoiler alert. You can press the skip button if you're. If you're afraid of spoilers.

No, I'm not spoiling, homie. I'm saying this is not your. Your grandma's Instagram training right here.

Grandma didn't have Instagram.

Yes. 1.0, version 1.0. No, he like, okay, everything that we've experimented with on Instagram has kind of failed. I mean, it's not failed, but it's just not got. It hasn't given us the results that we basically were shooting for. But what Los lays out is literally skipping all of the hard work and leveraging other people's work to do that. And you can go frickin acquire partner.

That's way too spoiley.

Okay, I'm gonna stop. But no, he tells you how, so I'm not spoiling that.

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We're going to send you one of those. And you're also going to learn how to drive a ton, a ton of traffic. It's the way we do it to affiliate products and our own products, and it works. And some of the biggest name marketers on the planet are getting behind this course, saying this is the way to be doing it. So check it out. Evergreenprofits.com traffic let's talk about building teams and building influence with Low Hustle Silva. Hey, Los, thanks so much for joining us. How you doing today?

Awesome, man. Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, this is gonna be. This is gonna be fun. We have a mutual friend, Brad Costanza. He's actually a business partner in one of our businesses, and he reached out to us and said, you guys have to talk to Los. This guy is a ninja with a bunch of shit that we're interested in. So really looking forward to diving into some of that stuff, especially really growing teams. Cause I think that's sort of one of our big themes for 2019 is scaling our team. So really excited to dive into that stuff.

Yeah, man.

Stoked to talk about it.

Yeah, for sure. So where do we start, man? Like, let's. Where did you come from, your little backstory here and what brought you to where you're at now?

Yeah, so you know not to bore anybody. So I'll just go back. Like, I kind of go. I kind of start telling the story. About four years ago, I had a successful business. I mean, it was kind of successful. We were doing a few million a year, and I had a business partner and everything was going well. And we just. Long distance relationships don't work in any kind of capacity. I think I'm a big kind of believer in that now. And one thing led to another. Went to traffic and conversion that year. And I remember standing right by the TV of our hotel, we were going to have a talk because things were just kind of rocky. Business was okay, but it was just rocky because, you know, when out of sight, out of mind. You know what I mean? And so essentially we had a conversation about breaking up. And I was like, all right, we had enough assets to take. We could both take some assets and be like, all right, I'm good, I'm good. And he was like, no, I think I need to keep everything. And long story short, I kind of, like, really thought to myself in that moment. I was like, damn, man, I could fight for this. And it can get nasty because we all know the same people in this space. Or I could just say, fuck it. F. Can I curse here?

No, you're good. Say whatever you want. We'll probably curse way more than you do.

So I was like, I could just say fuck it and like, give him everything. And if. If I can make it this time, I'm actually good at this stuff, right? And so I was like, you can have it, bro. I'm good. And then actually, I actually fell into a casual depression after a few months for that because I was like, I didn't know what to do. Everything was taken away from me. Like, I had built a. We had a software, we had a mastermind, we had E comm stuff. Like, we were doing pretty good. And I didn't have any of that. And so fast forward, like, I had two friends that I had hired. Well, they became friends, but I hired them to work there. I took them with me, and they forced me to start speaking again. I started speaking a little bit and I started an agency. It went okay. It went pretty good. After three months, we were already on track to do seven figures because, again, I know a lot of people in the space. I knew how to do funnels and ads and the whole thing. And then I found an influencer. And the influencer was like, hey, you know, I don't have money, but will you. Will you do it for a percentage I was like, yeah, whatever. I'm still kind of like figuring out what I want to do. I don't even really want to do this agency thing. So we'll see what happens. That month we hit six figures, then the next month we hit more. And then I was like, man, this is way better than having an agency. I wonder if I can replicate it. And I've replicated that particular process with over 7, 7 different influencers. And now we have different influencers with different brands. We own everything from membership sites to health supplements to clothing lines. And we do well over eight figures with all of our brands combined. I've got a team of 15, I got another team of over 25 on the supplements and other things and stuff like that. So we've got a lot of teams. Everything runs like an operate, like really smooth. We launched we just recently this year because everyone wanted to partner with me and I couldn't do it. That's just not scalable. So I built out an accelerator and coaching division, helping people with building teams and processes, but also ads and content amplification. Everything we do for our brands, we just built out as a system. And that's kind of what we work with people on that side as well.

That's right. So what kind of influencers are you partnering with?

I focus specifically on health and fitness. Just kind of like that became our passion and stuff like that. And now as we've grown, we've started to work with some more people that do like, speaking and a little bit of personal development and stuff like that. But mostly 99% of the stuff is health and fitness.

That makes sense.

We have a buddy, Mike Matus, he was on the show here. He's a local SoCal guy and he is kind of doing similar to what you had, including the accelerator for different businesses. But there's such an opportunity with influencers. So many people just have this following on Instagram or YouTube or wherever, but just don't know how to monetize it. They don't know how to create that business around it.

Well, dude. And no one. So here's the thing, right? When you work with influencers, when you work with everyone, right, like if you're a marketer, it doesn't mean you're good at business, it means you're good at marketing. If you're an influencer, it doesn't mean you're good at business and marketing, it means you are good at being yourself. Amplified like all when you. When people think now, they sell the dream, right? Being an entrepreneur, being Whatever. They're like, yeah, you can do it. It's like, honestly, maybe you can't, man. Maybe you're just a really good speaker. Maybe you're just a really good marketer and you can work for someone who is a big visionary and you can put those process. And I really recognized that as I started to work with these people, I was like, oh, dude, you could never do this by yourself. No offense, but, like, at scale and all these other intricacies and processes and like, operationally, like, you're. You don't want to do that either, you know? And that's kind of like something that I actually really like. Building the businesses, right? Like, I took those four years off from, like, speaking and being on podcasts and doing all those things because I was kind of getting burnt out and I. And I kind of got afraid to relaunch it because I didn't want to sound like one of those coaches that teach coaches how to coach, right? Which is everywhere. And so I kind of like stepped back and Brad actually was like, dude, you got to be on this podcast. It'll help you get moving on that stuff and it'll kind of bring you back. So I'm stoked to be here, man.

That's awesome. So with the influencers and the clients that you work with now, are you working with people that aren't necessarily yet influencers and sort of making them influencers, or are you looking for people that already own influence and partnering with them?

So our accelerator works with people that are trying to get there, and we can help them build out those processes and stuff, but I personally only work with people that are either in the heavy hundreds of thousands or in the millions of followers.

So you have your benchmarks, you know. All right, well, I'm sure you have some metrics now. You're like, all right, cool. They got this many followers, this much engagement, you're like, it's pretty much a slam dunk if you didn't apply, right?

And it's just a lot of, like I said, a ton of people started. Started recommending me, and people just started finding out. And I get a ton of people, and it's like, you have to be able to pull decent levers to scale. And if you're going to start with someone who's like, hey, man, I'm really good looking, or I have 100,000 people that follow me and I can speak, that's awesome. But I basically have to build your entire business. I don't have time for that. I'd rather Come in and amplify somebody's message and really expand that. So what I do now is I actually own all those businesses.

I start off with, like this date before we get married thing to see if we like each other. We might not vibe and it might not make sense, but if not, if it doesn't, if we start having a great relationship and it's all good, then I get equity in the businesses.

Got it?

Yeah. So there's really, I think there's really like sort of three, no, two topics I want to really go down. So one of them is I really want to talk about team building. Because when we talked to Brad, Brad was like, los is a ninja at team building. He's built an amazing team faster than anybody I've ever seen. So I really want to talk about that. And then I also really want to talk about.

With these accelerator programs you're doing, what kind of things are you getting into with people to help them build their influence? I think those are really kind of the two rabbit holes I'd love to go deep on.

Let's do it.

Yeah.

Which one do you want to start on, Joe?

Let's start with team building. Okay, so there's a lot of things there. So what? Where do you think we should start loving? Because I know there's a million topics.

So if you want to start with team building, I would say what I do with people that are trying to scale and stuff like that is most people haven't even hired that next person. Right. So before I even hire the next person, for everyone who's listening and stuff like that, I'd ask myself first, all right, I used to think this was corny until I really started doing it at scale. What's my vision, mission and goals? At first we all just want to make more money and then we want to make more money than that and then it turns into something. But if you can start aligning yourself with like, alright, well, what do I want to do? What do I want to build out? What's the mission? What's the vision? How are we going to get there? It's easier to bring people on board, right? Like, when I bring people on board, the first thing I say is like, hey man, listen, we are a small company, but we're growing consistently. My goal is to get to 50 million in three years and then 100 million. I want to sell one of these companies specifically in the next three years. I already have the person that's gonna buy it. You know, I wanna be the Procter and Gamble of influencers. Like, my goal personally is to own a ton of these brands. I already have it to where, like, you can see some of. Some of these fitness influencers, like, fight people. People don't like them online. They're like, oh, I hate him, but I like him. And I like, I laugh. I'm like, I own both those things. You know what I mean? So, like, that's kind of like how people fight on the shelves, I think, like, media and online, like, us being a media company is my shelf, right? So I project that mission into people and I go, hey, and this is, we're savages. I have literally, like a huge thing, a huge art piece here that says Savages. We call ourselves svg. Like, we have this mindset of, like, everybody has to work here at a certain pace, a certain level. Like, you have to, you know, we're all here to support you, but you have to be a savage and support your team members. Have a really good strategy on paying people, like, really, really well. Because I don't. If you're a baller, like, you should stay a baller here and want to grow with me instead of having to leave somewhere. I think people don't treat people right and that's why people leave. And. And I go deep into, like, here's how you're going to get educated. This is where I'm going to take you and train you and the whole thing. And once, once you bought into my mission and my vision, my goals and you see my passion, like, it's really hard. And then I have testimonials from all the people that work here. They're like, I would never leave. Like, I literally have people that would work here for free just because they know how much, like, it means to me and, like, what I would do and have done for them. Right? Like, I keep my word and all that kind of stuff. So that's critical. Like, step one. And no one does step one because they feel like that's stupid. I'm making 10, 20, 40, 50, 100K. I don't need that. Like, yeah, you do. You need that. Because if you don't believe it, why would someone come and work on something that you don't really believe 100%.

And you're. Let's be honest, the money gold kind of gets old after a while. Like, you need something kind of bigger. And then definitely with being surrounded by people that are on sharing that same goal and path, vision, mission, then it just gets more fun, you know, and you have something together, like this collective Thing you guys are all having, you have like a challenge fire into your ass collectively to go, that's it, man.

Like, you spend, you know, if you break down time for all the people that like to be lifestyle entrepreneurs and like, oh, I like to relax and kick it, like, I can't do that. I don't like it. I like to work. Work is my passion. It's my hobby. It's my extra sport. If I have more time, I read about work. If not, I listen to things about work. Like, I love it. Right. And you spend. I would say if you're spending 33% of your day sleeping, you're spending at least 33% of your life working. Right. If not 40 or more. Why wouldn't you want to build something where every single day that you're here is your best day? Right. And that's with the people that you're hiring and the things that you're doing. I'm, like, super cognizant of building that kind of stuff because money does mean nothing, if anything. Like, I try to make a lot of money so I can. I have a big pot. Like, everyone gets a percentage here of the business, depending on the net and all that kind of stuff. Because I love sharing, like, the growth. And that's what gives you true joy, is like accomplishing things more than money.

Yeah. I feel like when it comes to team building and bringing on new team members, I feel like the hurdle for most people is more mental than it is actually finding the right people. I think a lot of people really struggle to just kind of take that first step and accept, look, I'm going to spend this money on an ongoing, recurring, indefinite basis to bring this team member on. And I think that's a tough mental barrier to get over. So I'm curious how you overcome that or what sort of advice you give to people.

So I can't grow without people. I mean, that's just. That's always been my logic. Right. Like, you. And so two things. I think you're right. And then I also think that other people think, well, I'm too good for this. Like, no one can do this like me. Like, I've done every job here, and everybody here is better than me at those jobs now, like, by far, you know, because. Say what?

That's how it should be.

Yeah, yeah. You know, everybody here is way better. It didn't start that way. And I had time and, you know, I definitely lost. Invested money. I wouldn't say lost, but invested money and time into making people good. And working on their mindset and all that kind of stuff. I do a lot of, like, trying to help them with personal development and where they are, what they want to do, what they want to achieve so we can try to achieve it together. But to tell people, you know, it's gonna cost you money, man. Like, you're running a business, you know what I mean? It's the same thing. Like, you know, a lot of people, I heard this analogy, like, if you're going to go be a doctor, you're totally cool losing four years of your life, then another four going 100 plus thousand dollars in debt just so you can not make money for the first five years and then potentially start to make some money. But with entrepreneurship, you're not willing to put 3k of your money or 5 or 6 or 7 to like get somebody to help you offload so you can do better work and then scale your business. Why is that?

Yeah, what would you. And what would you. Let's see here. Because I know one of the issues is that, and you mentioned this in the beginning and Matt said it as well, is you kind of feel like you can handle it all or you're cut out to be the marketer, the follow up guy, the sales guy. All this stuff in one. How do you get folks to see that that's not the case? Because in our case, it took us almost 10 years to figure that shit out for ourselves until we're like, oh, yeah, my personality is not like jiving with that, you know, and you kind of start to understand what you're good at and what you really suck at. But, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs just push through it anyway.

So I think we all have to push through it because at the beginning, like, we just don't have money. You know what I mean? You just got to do whatever you got to do until it changes. But for me, like, I realized, man, like at the end of the day, like, all this, all this is to all the things that we do, a process. Like, I realized like, none of it. You know, I saw, you know, I'm friends with a lot of marketers. Like, I saw when Dice was working with Molly, how good Molly got. And then like, Molly was the reason that they did AD so well and all that it wasn't Ryan and it wasn't Perry and all these things, right? Like, it was like, wow, they trained someone so well that they're that. And then they get rust. And all these people are the reason that they're able to grow because they're able to say, okay, what's my biggest move? Like, what's my biggest lever? Like, what do I need to go do? What do I need to be? And so one of the big things that I do all the time, and I'm always questioning this and analyzing it to the day and to the year. It's like, what's my unique ability this year? Because I think your unique ability changes because you change. Right? Like you. I used to be a really good marketer. I think that I'm an okay marketer. I'm a way better operator now. You know, I'm really, really good at sales, but I'm also not doing all the sales and stuff like that because I'm a better operator and a better motivator, and I'm better at these things now. And if I do this more, my businesses grow. If I get back into marketing, Like, I can change the conversion rate on something, but I'm not going to make the needle move as like, hiring two people and training them on these processes. Everything we do with marketing and with business and operations, it's all a scalable process at the end of the day because everyone's done it. There's so much data that you can go back on, like influencers or people that have good businesses and really analyze their model and go, okay, so this is how this worked. This is what I'm going to do. And two things happen. You don't want to invest the time or the money in those things. And that's why people get stuck. They want an immediate result. Because we've been so accustomed to. We see it on social or we see things and people are like, yeah, I did this and, like, my business scaled and I did one tweak and my business made this much. And that's just not true, man. Like, everything takes time. Like, every single thing that you build. Even, you know, if I start a new, I have a new brand that we're starting right now, and it's not smashing. Like, it's gonna. It's gonna do fine, but it's not doing well. And, like, I'm okay with it. And I'm spending money on ads and I have people that are working on it, and we're trying to figure out what's wrong, because that's what happens at the beginning. But people are just impatient because they're seeing, you know, at my let's day 900 and they're comparing it to their day 39.

Yeah, yeah. Now when you do hire people, are you looking for people that already Sort of have some of the skills you're looking for. Are you hiring people that are kind of blank slates and then training them up on your ways?

We hire blank slates.

Nice. Well, you said like, what, bartenders and.

Stuff like that, dude. So everybody, everybody here used to either take pictures at a bar or was a bartender or was a hairstylist or a club promoter, or there's one dude or was in a band, like legit is in a band still. And no one here is like, yeah, I've always done AdWords or I've always done conversion rate optimization. I have. And so, like, I started it with like two core people that were with me from years before and I worked with them to get them good and then they got really good and then we together trained other people. And dude, I'll go to, I mean, like, when I tell you, like, we train things like from, from the beginning, like, I'll buy, you know, for example, like for Facebook, when we were first starting, we bought Kuzmich's courses and I know Nick and I got his stuff and I was like, hey, I'll call you if I need anything. But we just sat there, we sat down together and like did and failed and then did it and failed. And then, you know, I'm lucky enough to. I know a lot of top level marketers, I can make calls. So I have a lot of consulting, but I don't use it for me. I use it for them. I go, hey, let's go in this together and let's see what happened here and let's take notes and then let's build a process through this phone call that we just had, right? And then that's how I've been able to scale it. And then I now that now we have a big process and like we have a method to doing all these things and everything's almost templated out, so to speak. You know what I mean? And we have Monday.com as a process board for everything, content amplification and ads and funnel building and conversion rate points that we want to always make sure we're touching and stuff like that. But I got Dennis Murphy to help me on emails. I hired him and I was like, hey, dude, teach these guys emails with me. Tell them what's wrong, what's going on with our copy. Why are these headlines not making sense? I know that not everyone can do that. Just make a phone call and call like some people, but you can buy their courses and you can buy their content, you know what I mean? And Kind of use things like that to educate them.

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. So you're basically bringing on people that, you know, probably want a little more time freedom. They're working at a bar or a hairdresser, whatever. They want some more time freedom. They want to be able to work from. From home, at a computer or whatever. And you're basically leveraging the courses and the people and the resources you have to educate them. And I imagine they probably start out a little bit cheaper than if you were to just go find somebody that claims they're a Facebook expert as well.

Right. And also, the thing when you claim you're a Facebook expert or an AdWords guy or a conversion rate guy, again, like, you've been almost, like, brought up by this, like, fake market. So you see people and you're like, yeah, I'm 5K. How many ads have you run or how much have you spent? 5k, bro.

You get all these people, they're like, oh, yeah, I did it for Johnny or Mike. And like, I don't. I don't really do this. And I have my method. So, like, your method doesn't work? Los. It's like, no, like, I don't even think my method works. Whatever is going on with the data, what we're doing is what works. So we're always implementing and changing, you know, and that comes into, like, you got to hire people that don't have egos, and you yourself shouldn't have an ego and think you're always right. Because, you know, we do a lot of. We process a lot of data here with all of the stuff that we do. And, like, no one's ever right, man. Like, all we. The only time we're right is on, like, whatever we tested and. And that showed the result. So you have to iterate. You have to iterate from that, not from where you think.

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, we've hired a lot of Facebook agencies in the past. We've hired two or three agencies in the past, and I've always kind of gone in, set up a bunch of ads, and then hired the agencies and kind of wanted them to sort of maintain what I've already set up. But they always have these sort of preconceived ideas of, no, this is what's working for my other clients. So this is what I'm going to do. And pretty much without fail, every single agency we've ever hired has killed our advertising. Yeah, Definitely resonates. We're definitely on board with bringing people in that don't have any preconceived ideas. The person who's running our Google Ads for us right now, she's literally Never logged into AdWords before six months ago, so.

Perfect.

Yeah. And they're new to this, right? So they can be better. And you. If you take the time, you can make them amazing. I mean, like, overall, here we spend, you know, all these. No one had that kind of experience. And we spent well over a million bucks a month on ads. You know what I mean? And it didn't come from, like, oh, well, this guy's a pro at xyz. Like, no, it just came from us figuring it out and being like, oh, man, what if we do this? And what if we maybe built another account? Or, like, what if we did more ad sets? You know what I mean? So that's it. And then going back to, like, the mission and the vision, like, the way it is here with everything that we do is. I don't want to say we're Google because we're nowhere near that size. Right? But, like, I'm very like, listen, we have a big thing. It's called impact over effort. Right? Like, if you're not feeling it, you should go home. Like, it's whatever, man. Like, you're not going to do any. Sitting here for hours isn't going to do shit for you. It's not going to help us. It's not going to do anything. A lot of this is creative stuff. So if you want to go to the gym, go to the gym. If you want to go get food, go get food. And, like, people work better because, like, I'm not. I'm not their boss. You know, I. I'm their friend, but I'm also, like, their leader. And I'm more their mentor than I am their boss. You know what I mean? That's the vibe that we have together all the time. Like, I'm always eating. I have quarterly retreats with people. And, like, you know, it's not about, like, work. It's about what can we do to improve our workspace? And that happens. That happen most of the times by us making more money and growing the brands. Right?

Yeah. I want to go back to actually sourcing these folks. Like the bartenders, the hairdressers of the world.

Are you.

I guess two things. How are you finding them? And then what qualities specifically do you see as like, oh, this person has potential with us.

So how I'm finding them is usually from referrals or friends. Like I said, A lot of these people came from.

That particular network. And the hairdresser. My wife used to be a hairdresser. And she was actually. We hired. Her name's Hannah. We hired her, and she was going to be my assistant. And I really just. Everyone was like, oh, you need an assistant. And then when she came, I was like, oh, you shouldn't be an assistant. I think you could do these things. And she. She had no idea what I was talking about. She was like, I think I'm just gonna, like, book your flights, man. And I was like, no. And we taught her. We taught her how to do content and manage systems, and now she builds funnels in Kartra. She has her. Like. We're literally launching her own brand. She runs all of our Instagrams. We even built a service that she manages running other people's Instagrams. And, like, whole content things. Like, she teaches stuff now she does video.

So all I care about, man, is, like, how hard you're willing to work and what your goals are and if they align with. With my goals. Right. Like, I want to. I really, truly. I want to make a ton of money and stuff like that, but I really, truly want to build a place that, like, creates an amazing workplace because I'm here all the time, and I get to, like, spend time with these people that become, like, my deep friends, and I get to build a bunch of things together, and we get to explore and grow as people and business people together. And I want people here that are not. That want to leave at 4, but they're totally cool staying till 9 and coming in on Saturdays if that's what we need. I don't want to pressure it and be like, that's what we need all the time. We sure don't. But if that's needed, like, I don't want anybody to ever hesitate and be like, I'm here all day, no problem, you know? So it's a lot of resiliency and hustle and grit and desire to want to improve, not just financially, but, like, I want them to want to, you know, be a part of, like, something bigger. Yeah.

Do you ever hire, like, personal friends, like, just, you know, buddies of yours to bring into the company?

No, I'm too, like, with all the happy stuff that I'm saying, like, I'm super aggressive at work. Like, we need to grow. We need to crush. Like, not aggressive. Like, I mean, but, like, I'm just. I take it serious, you know? And so, like, we. Everyone that's here is, like, very serious. Like, we only, like, we only have, like, one thought, and that's scale. Like, how do we hit scale with everything that we do? You know what I mean? Like, everything we launch, like, within the first three months has to be hitting 100k just because that's what we're used to now. And that's what I push towards and stuff like that. And I'm always trying to ask myself, like, am I thinking too small? Should we try to do more? And sometimes we fail and it sucks and we lose money and stuff like that. But, you know, with friends and things like that, I'm just too. I take this too serious. And I think with friends you always have the problem, like, oh, man. But it's cool. It's like, well, it's cool outside, but like, in here, like, we're trying to smash.

Yeah, no, that's cool. It's like, leave the war stories to the friends later. But, you know, have your own crew in house, which, by the way, it sounds like, is everyone in house with you, like, in location? Yeah. Cool. Okay. Yeah.

Have you tried, like, would you. Would you consider. I know you said the long distance stuff doesn't work. Would you say that for any team member or is that just for, like, partners, Customer support. Customer support.

Yeah, yeah. Developers, different things like that. But I like being here. I like seeing, you know, you know, I mean, you could totally do it, I think. But I like being here and I'm a really good motivator and, like, if I have a plan, I like you to come here and like, me, whiteboard it out. And, like, if you have a problem, I can sit with you and I can see what's going on and we can work on things together. So it's just. For me, it works way better doing it. Doing it here.

I love it. No, it's that whole face to face thing. And then you could, like you said, because I know Matt and I, like, we meet up all the time. We do have a virtual team, but we talk all the time. But I could just see the benefit of having a localized place to go to, even if it is your freaking house, if you're working out of your bedroom or something.

Dude, we started out of my upstairs.

There you go.

We started out of my upstairs. So, yeah, it doesn't matter. But being together has been really good for us.

I love it. Do you guys do anything about personalities and kind of understanding what people naturally are just interested in, or is that just something you just have an eye for at this point?

At this point, I have A pretty good eye on it. I used to make people take tests and all that kind of stuff. And it works, but it works just as much as it doesn't work, man. What I do more so is I put people in. So we kind of almost go by different pods. Like, you got your funnel team, you got your media team. And by media, I don't mean media buying, but videos, chopping, YouTube content, Instagram, all that kind of stuff. And then you have your funnels, right? And then you have like your more operational like managers and stuff like that. And if you, if you, you know, I always make you the first thing you come in here as you have to build a funnel. Like no one, no one says anything to you. We give you a funnel and we give you click funnels and you go, all right, build that. And then you, that's it. That's what you do for the first day. And you have to have it done. Like we have a time, like the fastest one was in like three hours. So you have to be under. You have to be between five and three and five hours, right? And it's got to be done completely and you have to ask no questions. And then we put you on ads and then we put you on everything just so you kind of get to know like a decent understanding of like what things are and how it works. And then normally I'll have an eye and be like, alright, you know, if you're, if you're kind of into numbers, jump into media buying. Or if you, if you're really creative, obviously, like do the creatives for the media buying team and they can just place ads and stuff like that and help with the copy and all those things. But if it doesn't work before firing people, I'll move them around. I'll be like, hey, what about here? What about there? What about trying that? And it's worked for me. I've had people that, I was like, hey, you're starting on ads. And they sucked at ads. And then we moved them into creative and they kill it for us and creative now. So it's just about trying to find where they're happy because they're the ones that are spending the majority of their time in their stuff. And I don't want to pigeonhole them by being like, do this. And if that doesn't work, you suck. You probably don't suck. There's probably something that I didn't do in putting you in the right position that made you excel in this thing. So I always try to try different.

Things I love that funnel building concept, especially the fact that don't ask questions, just go build it. Because it sort of forces them to be resourceful. Right. One of the things about some of our past team members that we've had that, that was kind of a pet peeve is they would come to us. We use Slack a lot for our virtual team management. They'll come to us on Slack and they'll say, hey, I have a question about this. And it's oftentimes a question that could have been resolved with a 30 second Google search. So I love the idea that go build this funnel, but kind of figure it out.

Yeah, yeah. And then, I mean we'll check in like once or twice. But it's mostly like, hey, I have a question on where did you get this icon? Or whatever. Like, oh, it's here. Bye. Like we don't talk to the people and it's not because we're assholes. It's just like, figure it out. Like if you can't figure that out or I see, like you're getting so stressed, you're getting pissed off or whatever. Like it's almost probably not going to be a good fit.

Yeah. So for like an early stage entrepreneur, let's just say like maybe they just cracked the six figure mark. Maybe they're making a hundred thousand a year. What would you say? What would your recommendation for first hire be?

If they're in the space that I think they're probably doing funnels. So I would have somebody help me with funnels.

Or if they're lacking ads, I mean I would still say funnels because a funnel to me is like the complete sequence. Right. It's not just like, hey, here's my pages. It's like, hey, here's my pages. That goes to my email. If I have an ad guy that retargets to something else, like maybe it's another conversation. And messenger, it's like the whole flow of something. Right. And if you don't, that takes a lot of steps, like at a really deep level. To build out a significant funnel is a lot of steps and that takes a lot of time. And so I would get somebody to understand funnels because also that person can become, as they grow, they could end up becoming your number two. Because if you have a really good understanding holistically of funnels, then you can understand how to build the business. Because you can see like, oh, this is broken. We should probably put messenger here because people aren't opening emails or there's a problem here. We should probably lower the price. The conversion rate on the checkout is really showing. Xyz right? Let's drop it. Or let's add more testimonials. You know there's something's going to break in a funnel more than something's going.

To break in ads now what about customer support? With customer support? Do you have them? Would they build a funnel before they ever get moved into customer support?

Dude, for customer Support I use hiremymom.com.

Okay, got it. I've heard of that.

Yeah.

So they're, they're not, are they? So is that like a us based right? Is that kind of like an agency.

Where you're Mormon moms in Utah?

Yeah.

Is it? So is that like an agency where you pay hire my mom or do you just, you just hire, you just.

You just pay hiremymom.com and you can just, they, they basically say, hey, what do you need? Like you can, you can get support, support person from there and kind of train her and you know your questions. So you, you try to give them your database and stuff like that. So yeah, that's the easiest. And then we also, we do outsource to another for our bigger stuff that we get a lot of tickets. We outsource to a support company.

That's what you can do with homebrew calls. Just hire my mom.

Seriously? Yeah, yeah. The three of us, including Brad there, we co own a homebrew website and we're just. And this is like, this is the questions we hear all the time. You kind of get stumbled on like how do I hire this specific person? For us it's customers service in that business. But a lot of people just get hung up over oh, I need this specific conversion rate optimization guy. You know, it's like, dude, just train them. Like this process you're explaining.

Yeah, I mean at the beginning, you know, at the beginning, man, like I said, if you don't have the relationships and I also, I mean you might have to eat it a little. Like it's, you know, I look at businesses like I'm here forever, man. Like I'm going to do this for the rest of my life. So it doesn't matter necessarily if I make all the money all the time. You know what I mean? I'm down to invest in the business. And so if I didn't have the relationships I have, I would hire a consultant. That sounds really, really good. And I would, I would also hire an employee at a smaller rate and be like, and be honest with them. Be like hey man, as I'm growing, like, I'm going to pay you more money. But right now this is what I can pay it, but I'm going to pay you to get trained. And this is, you know, XYZ person and they're the best at conversion rate. So we're going to jump on together. We're both going to learn, you know, that way. They also see like this dude's working because, you know, I have a lot of people here and I've seen this like just from other jobs that they've had and stuff like that they don't respect. Like when you're not, when you're not in it every day, like you're not really building a good culture. You're just building a job 100%.

And I think that's why people love you don't want to leave your businesses. I mean, you're literally, you're guiding them, you're mentoring them, you're probably coaching them when shit gets real. Like you said, mindset 100%. That makes sense why these people don't want to leave and they'll work 90 hours or so or work for free. Yeah, that's powerful, man. Because I could see that a lot of business owners will check out, feel like it's lifestyle. These people under me can work it. That's not my job anymore. I could just dick around in my. But it shouldn't be that way, right?

Right. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I don't not. I don't believe in lifestyle business in the sense that leave the four hour work, we kind of like go relax thing. I believe you can have something that pays you for building, for you having to build it out and is operationally sound. But that's not really a lifestyle business. You should always be checking the lifeblood of it and being involved in it and stuff like that. Too many people online try to preach like I'm not even doing anything. And look at how much money I have. And we all know those people, they go to conferences and they had a good February, but they had a terrible march. They didn't do anything because there's no consistency inside of that.

Yeah, for sure. Now I want to. Unless you add anything else, Joe. I kind of want to shift topics into the influencer topic because we're super fascinated by that. I know I follow you on Instagram and I notice you're pretty active on Instagram. That's one area that it's kind of been a black hole for us. We've never really put a Lot of focus on it. We've just kind of recently started focusing on it. But with your accelerator program, what kind of things are you doing to help people kind of reach that influencer status?

So we start with Instagram. Actually, we have an Instagram process. We have a bunch of pages and we've spent a lot of time learning Instagram. It all kind of stemmed from working with influencers. A lot of times.

When an influencer, they're really good at making content, but that can burn them out and so they can go through phases. And I wasn't getting what I needed from one of the influencers and I was like, you know what, man? I'll just be the influencer in the brand. I'll just make the content. And I started doing it and I blew up. I didn't blow up. Like, I'm not famous or anything, but, like, I was able to make my Instagram pretty big. Our YouTube is getting a lot of growth and I was like, oh, this is what you need to do, right? And so we built out a process for it. And then I was like, I wonder if I can do it for friends? And I did it for my buddy David Schloss and blew up his Instagram. And then I did it for a few other people and blew up their Instagram. And I was like, alright. And then. So we built that out as a process because right now we're in a place where you can, you know, Instagram is the old school Facebook fan page, and that's how you have to treat it. That's how. That's how I look at it. Like, you create a lot of content, you get stuff in there, you try to grow your account, but then you maximize stories. If you can spend a lot of time in stories, no one actually scrolls too much through the feed. So you need to focus on getting people in as a follower. But then, like, maximizing your stories and creating engagement. And Instagram gives you a lot of. You can pull them, you can ask them questions, you can give them questions to ask you. Like, you can have a lot of conversations. You can even set up a countdown timer if you make a sale. So you have to look at it now. It's like, all right, how much am I talking to these people? And then at the same time, how can I start to use this as an email sequence? Right? Like, if you have an offer, you can basically set it up as like, hey, part one, part two, part three of your videos. They're more likely to see it on Instagram than they are your Email now, because of how connected they are to their phone, specifically on Insta and not their email. Right. They're getting so much spam nowadays on promotions and update tabs and all that kind of stuff. And so we work on Instagram on building a really congruent brand, figuring out their message, getting them followers and then working with them on the story side and what they're going to sell, how they're going to bring people into either applications or if they're doing E commerce, what's the best way to get more people so they can swipe up? And we've had a lot of success. So we start with Instagram and then I go into the rest of the platforms because I'm a big believer that you do have to have it all. I know that a lot of people are like, stay focused on it. But I mean, you see the biggest people and they're not focused on one. They're doing everything because everything can run out. I mean, like I said, I run a ton of ads and sometimes there's problems with the algorithms or updates and you can see some pain. But if you. I have this process, basically I go, content, what kind of content are you going to put in the platform? And then conversation. How are you talking to people? Like, what are the modalities? Are you on Facebook, are you on Instagram, are you on YouTube? And then community, are you building out a community, a group and stuff like that? If you have those three things, you have conversions and you have conversions all over the place. Like, you can get all three of them all the time because they're seeing your face. You have this omnipresence thing and people are seeing you everywhere. And it's always goodwill and it's always good content. And sure, you're making sales, but they're so super chill. Like, you're not going out and like, buy my stuff. Like, you're just like, hey, guys, and if you want help with this, swipe up. Or hey, guys, if you want to try the new flavor of this thing, I just tried it, I made a video. You know, here's the ingredients, here's why it's good. Here's this swipe up, check it out. Or check it out on my YouTube. And you're going to get sales from everywhere else. I think it's like social has almost gone back. It takes time, but everything takes time. But it's almost gone back to, like, where it was before, where, like, you could make content and, like, people are going to go find it because these algorithms are Trying to get more people to see new things and keep you on the platform. And if you can amplify that with ads, then you're golden. And then you can build out some sick processes and retargeting and doing the whole thing. But if you really focus on the core, even if you didn't have that, you have everything you need to at least build a six figure business.

Yeah. Now with Instagram, do you have any worry about. You mentioned it's kind of like the old fan pages. Well, the way the old fan pages kind of turned out now is they don't give you any engagement unless you, you sort of pay for that engagement for the most part. Do you have any worry that Instagram's just going to go that same route once enough people kind of convert over to business accounts?

I think it'll happen this year. But even with that. Right. You're still, we have a lot of data that shows that pages that have really, really good amount of followers get better CPMs. And if you get better CPMs, you're probably getting better CPAs and so you're able to get more affordable ads. And you know, even, even at the beginning, if you're, if you have, you know, half a million people or 300,000 and I do a boost, it's going to do better than if I just had 30,000 people and I did a boost, you know what I mean? So it's still important to do that even to this day. Facebook fan pages, like I said, For CPMs and CPAs work like you want to have a better page. And it's also social proof. If I see your page and you have 30,000 followers and I see John's and he's got 300, I kind of trust him a little bit more. He just seems like he's got more going on. And we live in a world where like you want to see stuff, you know.

Yeah. So how would you. I know you have your whole process and I'm sure it's pretty damn detailed. As much as I would want to go through it right now. What are some pretty good growth hacks for Instagram? If you're at a place where you can't do the swipe up, because I know that's like the holy grail from what it sounds like here. What are some your best growth tactics for an account?

So you have to have a really good profile so you can get people that are the people that you want to get.

To actually follow you. The follow on follow stuff is pretty much dead. The engagement Group stuff doesn't really work. Honestly, the easiest growth hack that I could say is I would go do drops with different people. Basically you can go to different pages and say, hey, how much for a shout out? And some people will say, depending on the influencer or whatever, some people will say 500 bucks, some people say 50. Right. And if you can do that enough and start measuring, alright, I gave this guy 50 bucks, I can get 1,000 followers, or I can give this one 75 bucks and he gave me a thousand. Sometimes it doesn't work. Sometimes it works and they're shouting you out from their page. So they're real people, they're following you over there, they're messaging you and stuff like that. And then you keep the stories going high, you're able to get more people and then creating different giveaways and stuff like that, or working with other pages to do giveaways, that's going to get you a lot of people. You have to kind of cross promote with other pages. Like I said, we have a huge network of pages. And so one of the other things is there's this thing called power likes that basically spike you. So all pages aren't really created equal. So if you have 100 followers, but I have a thousand followers and I like your page, Instagram says, oh, this pretty serious page. Like this page. Let's give them a better ranking for that. And if you can get enough of those pages to like your stuff, you can show up in the Explore page. And if you show up in the Explore, more people come and like you and you grow your account.

Got it. So you're leveraging. Yeah, you partner with influencers or folks you can get shoutouts from, get that engagement, get them to actually like your stuff, and then Instagram's gonna basically reward you and give you more exposure.

So are you essentially going to. You're finding other accounts that are very similar as far as niche and who their followers are, and you're just DMing them straight on Instagram?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what you would do.

Is there any sort of rule of thumb of like, what to expect as far as cost? Like, since this account has 300,000 subscribers, it's X per thousand or whatever. Is there any sort of like benchmark number or is everybody just kind of different?

Everyone's kind of different. If they always go out and measure their engagement. If someone has 100,000 followers and like 300 likes, they're all bots. You don't want to do that. If someone has 100,000 followers and they have like 1 or 2 or 3% engagement. Then you're like, alright, cool. Like this person has probably got real people because you're probably gonna get 1, 2 to 5. I think my Instagram page has like 4 or 5% engagement. I have friends that have 20. I don't even know how they've done that, but normally it's like one or two. So if you can go to that and measure and people have something like that, then that's a good person to go do a test with. As far as pricing, it's just gonna vary on like deal making, bro. Because they don't have. No one has a real rate sheet. I mean, you're saying like, hey, give me a shout out. Like they can do it for free or they can do it for a thousand bucks. It depends on like what you're willing to do. I always go for the long haul and I go, hey, if I can get a small test, I promise you I'll do this for like the next two months and then I do it right. If it works. And if it doesn't work, I mean, hey, man, you don't have the data to support that. What you said was real. I didn't get anybody.

Yeah, yeah, It's a little test and that's a shout out. Is it mainly in stories you can get.

Yeah, you can get them in stories you can also. Basically you can also have people tag you. Like, there's also a lot of people that sometimes do giveaways. Like if you have a health and fitness or really some sort of a physical product. Good. You can get influencers and pay them to shout out the product and that'll grow your account. You can also get them to swipe up and you can leverage their swipe up instead of yours. Influencers still don't really know how to charge. And there's websites like cameo.com where you can go and you can pay an influencer. I think I can get like.

Who was it? Like, I don't know. You can get anybody on that, on that thing from like Trey Kennedy to freaking like UFC fighters for like 50 to 100 to 300 bucks. And if they like what they're. If they, if they're like, alright, this seems cool, they'll do a shout out. Right. And sometimes then you can negotiate rates like outside of that and have a different relationship with them. And a lot of times again now if you're doing physical products, you can even talk to them about being an ambassador.

Sure.

I mean, I could see Even if you have a digital product or some kind of training, you know, and you hook up some influencer in the business space or whatever space, boom. Shout out.

The other thing you can do. I'm starting to test this out. Is so people, you know, building a business, building courses, all these things is hard. Whether you're doing E comm or whatever. Like, you got to have a lot of moving places. If you already have it moving, you can go to influencers and say, hey, I will give you.

25% affiliate percentage, but I'm going to run off your page and I'm going to give you, I'm going to run all the ads and I'll spend all my money. Or you could find another way to do something. Like for a digital course, hey, if you put this on your swipe ups, you get 100% of it because it's a digital course, right. So it doesn't matter. And they're making money, but you're getting the client and you're getting the customer. So it's all about like, how do I want to acquire customers now? The way I look at it is like, you know, I made a commitment to myself last year because I was going through a lot of traffic issues with all these platforms. Even though we were spending a ton of money, we're getting no love overall. Right. And I was like, man, I need to just master traffic as a whole, like organic traffic, SEO, YouTube, like everything. And I realized that traffic comes from nowadays, it comes from conversations and it comes from people. And like, if you can start leveraging that, like you have the holy grail.

Yeah. Do you ever do any sort of advertising to grow your Instagram? I know you can't do like a.

Like campaign, but it's never worked for me.

Yeah, I haven't heard it work for anybody. I was just curious if somebody's cracked that code.

No, no, I've never done it. I mean, I have done it, but I've never done it at success.

Yeah, no, we tested some of that. Just running some ads instead of Facebook to try to get Instagram followers. And it's never really panned out for us either. Why do you think that the follow for a follow thing doesn't work anymore? Because, I mean, the logic still seems sound, right? Like, if I follow somebody and they follow me back, I now have more followers than that should increase my engagement. Why wouldn't that work anymore?

I mean, it works, but again, I just think at scale and like, I can't even with bots and stuff. If you're using bots, there's a chance you could get in trouble. And so, you know, at scale, like, getting tens of thousands of people is gonna be tough. Like, it's gonna take you a long time. You could probably get to 25,000 people like that in maybe a year. But I want to try to grow to hundreds of thousands of people as fast as possible.

Yeah, you got the scale. I mean, with influencers, you could scale fucking fast. I mean, that's the whole point of.

The other thing we do. You can go buy a page. You know, there's pages for sale, and there's people that are doing nothing with Pages that have 75,000 followers, 150,000, and they don't know how to monetize it. And it's kind of just like, it was a little hustle that they're just like, I don't know what I'm doing with this. You come in and be like, hey, dude, let me buy this and let me rebrand it. The engagements there. And even if those people. Even if a lot of those people leave, you might be getting the right ones. Or you could buy pages that are specific to your niche. Right. We own a few pages in the health and wellness space.

Got it. Is there some way that you find those, or is it just stumble across them every once in a while?

I'll have to get back to you guys with this. So you can put it. If you have show notes, but there is a website where you can buy them.

Oh, cool. All right. Yeah, we'll follow up with you. Right on. I don't know where else to go with that one, because there's a lot of. I know Instagram, it's something that we've just kind of failed at, but it's because we haven't really dedicated the time to it. And I know it's a lot of moving parts there.

Well, our attempts at Instagram have always been using sort of follow.

Automated following tools that follow people that use hashtags or follow people that we want their audience. And. And it's just never really worked out. You know, we put. I don't know, I think our Instagram has, like, 2,000 followers, but we've never put a lot of focus in it. And it's not that engaged from all the people that we brought in using that process. So, you know, I'm sure we have a lot of bots that follow us or something like that. I guarantee it. Yeah, it's something that we're really interested in diving into. So once you have A good following on Instagram is pretty much the swipe up concept. The main way you get people to take actions from Instagram 100%.

Also you can, if you're doing higher ticket stuff or really whatever, depending on what your goal is, like you can make people DM you. You're probably more likely to get a ton of DMs than you are to get heavy, heavy swipe ups, right? Because then your swipe up is like basically your click through rate. Like how many people are swiping up is like in an email how many people would click through. And that's not going to go as many people as like see your offer on email, which would be see your video. Right. But if you can get people to DM you, it feels more personable. And so if you're selling higher ticket stuff, you can always have a conversation lead with some sort of a questionnaire. And by questionnaire I just mean like poll. You can set up a poll on Insta and then you can ask questions and then teach something on what you kind of like preemptively knew you were going to ask and then say, hey, listen, if you guys want to get a little bit more information about this, I'm hosting a workshop or I'm doing a webinar or I have an event coming up. It's not for a lot of people, so if you really want to get it, just DM me and I'll talk to you guys about it. And it's super chill. And people DM you all the time because you're not pushy, pushy selling. And like, you know, it also creates this like, man, how many people are DMing this guy? I gotta DM him real quick. And then you can start conversations and you know, a lot can happen from there.

I love that. And you can actually put links in DMs too, right?

Yeah, you can put full on everything.

Dude, that's where it's at.

Yeah.

Cause obviously, yeah, you had that one link in the bio and everybody's like, click the bio link.

It's like just dm and that's tough. And the other thing that I would say too is a lot of people put these link trees in their bio. If you have something to sell, just put your one thing because now you're opening an opportunity for too many clicks to go everywhere and then you're not going to be able to measure.

What clicks going where because you can't attribute that on that.

With Insta, yeah, we actually used link tree ourselves for our own links.

But it makes perfect sense.

Well, because with our Instagram, we post a lot like, hey, there's a new podcast episode, live link in the bio. And then, you know, we're linking to various episodes. We have, We've mentioned our YouTube account every once in a while, so we mentioned resources. But so how does that work? If you say like link in the bio, like in one of your posts on Instagram, but then that link is constantly changing.

It's just, you know, I mean, your offer is changing. Just change the link. Also what you guys can do is if you have, if you have a really good guest or something, something like that, or you just have a really good episode, you can go to different pages. And a lot of times, man, it doesn't even matter like if it's super, super niche specific because I mean, sometimes I've grown accounts using other people's meme pages because you know what, everyone follows freaking mean pages, dude. And it's what you want, right? And so if someone hits you with like, oh, check out this awesome. Normally it would go like, cool picture of you. Hey, follow this dude for success and mindset and business entrepreneurship stuff. And then like another picture. And if you want to listen to their latest podcast, swipe up. Now you basically are just paying for someone to send you swipe ups, but then you can actually have them send a screenshot of their analytics on insights and see like how many this work, how many people clicked and how many people went to the podcast. And if that works, you can start doing that more. You can just start driving clicks to other things.

That's ninja.

I love it. I love that we'll be swiping that. No pun intended. Yeah, sweet. Love it, man. Anything on Instagram before we kind of close that chapter?

Right now, I think, Yeah, I mean, I think that's, that's the basis of it. And you know, like I said, if you guys can start to start to network with other, other people, it's easy to connect with people on Instagram, man. Like I, I've made like really high.

I guess net worth, but like just high level individual friendships from like, oh, hey, what's up dude? I like your stuff. Oh, cool, man. I know you followed me. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Then you just start talking and then all of a sudden you're, you're doing stuff or you're working together or you get to be on that show. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I dig it.

So I have one actually last question about Instagram that I just want to get your Thoughts on now? What do you think about like a personal page versus a brand page? Because, you know, I have, you know, the Matt Wolf Instagram, which I post mostly just like personal pictures with family and stuff. And Joe has his page. And then we also have our evergreen profits one, which is where we, that's our main brand, where we post stuff about Hustle and Flowchart and the products we're releasing and memes and things like that. Do you think it's important to have like all of those or should we be kind of focused on our personal accounts or does it really matter?

So if you want to, I would focus on my personal account because. Because I can make money from it, right? Like I can make money faster than a logo and people are going to see me a ton of times. What you also could do is have the other podcast or, I'm sorry, the other page, but also do a ton of stories from the page because the odds are your main page or your brand page, which you can treat like a meme page, essentially is going to grow faster. But if you're the face of that, then the connection is with you. It doesn't matter about the page. Right. So a lot of times, like I said, we own a few pages that, that are fitness based and they're called like gym warriors and stuff like that. But I'm the face of it. And then I talk to people in the space and give value so they know me from the pages. So you can kind of use it. I would do all three, but I would be the face of all of them. And if you want to focus on one, I would probably honestly focus on my personal one. Just because at the end of the day you're always you, right?

Yeah. And how much do you post? Like, let's just say for your personal page, for example, how much do you post, like personal insights into your own life, like what you're up to versus, you know, business meme type stuff.

My personal page doesn't post business meme type stuff anymore. I used to and I found that like, honestly, like, I try to like, for me, for what I do, I try to attract like, you know, I'm getting people to give me like half their business or like give me, you know, $20,000 a month for something. And so like meme page has kind of made me feel like, like, whatever, I don't trust that dude, the meme dude, you know, and so I switched it to be a little bit more like my personal, my personality and stuff. I still, sometimes I take, douchey pictures with my car, but it's just because, like, people, they are. They literally, statistically get the best clicks. I don't like doing it. My team here makes me do it.

So douchey with a Tesla, though, man. It's cool. I got one of those.

Joe hasn't been taking douchey photos with his Tesla.

I haven't.

No, you have to.

You need to start.

I know. Maybe that's why.

Douchey car pictures are the worst. But they work. But, yeah, so, you know, but I always put my own insights and I always talk about things that I. That I. That I'm about. Right. So, hey, so this happened in business or like, if this is happening with your team? I talk about. I actually talk a lot about, like, just entrepreneurship and team building and culture and stuff like that because it's stuff I'm like, really passionate about, which kind of has a personal development twist to it and that gets a lot more results oftentimes than, you know, just like office memes or different things like that. And I want people to kind of think of me more as a thought leader, less like just like a meme guy, you know, with the other pages. We definitely do. We definitely do that. Leverage it, and then I just jump on. So we just built. One of the cool things that we're doing too is like, we just built out like a. Essentially like a business page for us. But what I'm doing is like, I'm having everyone in the office do daily training. So everyone, everyone here gets to create content and give value and stuff like that. So I want people to kind of almost get to know the entire team and stuff like that. So, yeah, man, if you're for the home brewing stuff, I think you guys could also work with other people and pay them. Yo, tell people you're going live on our page and here's X amount of money, like hundred bucks, 500 bucks, whatever, depending on the person, and just do a takeover. It also brings more people into you. And those people are highly engaged. That's probably the best way to get engaged people.

If not do the other way, like I said, work with other pages and stuff like that.

I love it, man. This has probably been one of my favorite discussions we've had on the podcast in a long time. Just so much insights and value dropped. I'm loving this.

Thanks, man.

I'm glad.

But we do have to wrap up, unfortunately, but already over an hour.

But it's all good.

If you're up to it, I could see a round two in the future, at some point.

I'm super down. Always down. Yeah. Excited.

Maybe we'll drag Costanzo on here too. It'd just be kind of interesting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Too many ideas.

So we have a couple Rap Hustle and Flowcharts.

That's right. We have a couple wrap up questions that we ask everybody. The first one being, do you have any books that you find yourself recommending often or referring back to yourself often?

Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek is my favorite book. Multipliers, which is another team building culture kind of book. And then Outwitting the Devil is my favorite book of all time.

Oh, sweet. Those are all three books I've never read.

And then the last one is Scaling up by Brent Harnish.

I have that one. Haven't read it yet, though.

Just bought it just now. We both did.

Literally got it about a week ago.

So it's a little dense, but it's good.

Yeah.

Love it.

Yeah, it's definitely. Where should folks go? Check you out. I know you're doing a ton, man.

So the easiest place for the accelerator stuff is it's actually the influenceengine.com theinfluencengine.com.

And you have a podcast too, right?

Yep. The podcast is just called Los Hustle Live.

Hustle Live. And if somebody wanted to go follow your Instagram account, Loesh Hustle.

Losh Hustle.

Cool. We'll link all that stuff up in the show notes and. Awesome. I think that's. I think we kind of covered everything, so thanks so much for hanging out and spending this much time with us.

Awesome, man. Thank you for having me.

Anytime. See you later. All right, thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. Go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode. And maybe one cool thing that you learn there. The second thing is to go to itunes and and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and Flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this, this cool podcast training and a whole bunch of other cool free training that we give out@evergreenprofits.com so that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.