Marc Guberti - A Complete YouTube Success Roadmap

YouTube is great for discoverability because you can create videos that YouTube pushes out to your audience of subscribers. Sometimes there's people who have no idea who you are. One of the things I also do is whether I'm talking about, like, how to grow on YouTube or I'm talking about writing like, hey, if you want to explore more on this, let's schedule a strategy call. So I've gotten some clients through YouTube who they will watch several of my videos and think about someone who has watched your content voluntarily for hours. Though those types of people are more likely to get on the strategy call, be engaged, become clients, and even if they don't, they're also very likely to buy your books.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys, Matt Wolf and Joe Fear.

Hey, hey. Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is Matt Wolfe without Joe Fear. Today we've decided to kind of just do one offs with the intros to try to make them bit quicker where Joe and I aren't both on these intros. So Joe's not with me today and I have the pleasure of introducing today's guest. Today we're talking with Mark Guberti. And Mark is the host of the Breakthrough Success podcast, a wildly popular podcast where Mark interviews entrepreneurs and really successful people. He also runs The Mark Guberti YouTube channel, which is a rapidly growing channel on marketing strategies and all sorts of cool stuff in the digital marketing space. Now, on this episode, we wanted to bring Mark on to specifically talk about YouTube strategies. We posted a post in our Facebook group asking a question about, hey, how's Everybody growing their YouTube channels? And on that thread, a whole bunch of people said, you've got to talk to Mark Gilberti. He's got this stuff figured out. So as a result of that Facebook thread, we invited Mark to join us on the show and talk about YouTube. And this is a masterclass on YouTube. From figuring out what videos to make, how to do the tagging, how to create your titles, how to do the descriptions, adding hashtags on YouTube, who knew hashtagging on YouTube was a thing? But we talk about that. We talk about all sorts of strategies to increase retention, increase views, increase the number of subscribers you have, we pretty much cover the gamut on how to be really, really effective with YouTube. Mark really has this stuff figured out and he put together quite the masterclass. And you'll notice this episode is kind of like a fire hose of questions. We really, really, really Pick Mark's brain on this one and just sort of fire a whole bunch of rapid fire YouTube questions because we wanted to sort of condense a whole bunch of YouTube knowledge into an easier to consume episode. So I really, really, really think you're gonna dig this one. Make sure you stick around to the end. After the interview, Joe and I are doing our little, what we're calling mini therapy sessions at the end of these episodes where we sort of discuss our biggest takeaways and aha moments from this epis. People say that is some of the most valuable stuff from these podcasts. So make sure you stick around to the end to hear that as well. Now we are taking notes on this episode as we do with all of our episodes. You can get the notes for this one over@flowchart group.com now if you go to flowchart group.com, you will be asked to join our Facebook group. When you join the Facebook group after joining, we will send you a link to where you can download the most recent notes from our most recent episodes. So you've got to get in within two weeks of this episode going live. If you get in there within two weeks of it going live, we'll make sure you get the notes from this episode specifically. So go to flowchartgroup.com to get that. And final note, this show is supported by Ahrefs. That's a H r e f s.com and this episode is a good one to tell you that Ahrefs also helps you do SEO on YouTube. Not just Google search. So you can find keywords, you can find competitors keywords. You can get all sorts of information about how to best better rank on YouTube using Ahrefs. They have a content explorer. They have all sorts of cool tools. But their content explorer doesn't just explore content on Google search. Not just Yahoo, not just Bing, not just the search engines that you, you know, typically do website searches for. But it's also got a whole bunch of data from YouTube as well. So you can optimize your YouTube channel using Ahrefs. And Ahrefs does have a seven day trial. It's seven bucks for seven days. That's a buck a day if you haven't done the math on it. And you can get that at a H r E F s dot com. All righty. Let's go talk to Mark Gilberti.

Mark, how you doing, my friend?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on.

Yeah, man. Well, I'm happy we made it happen. We've shared what multiple masterminds, New Media Summit and Steve Olsher's event.

Well, we were on Breakthrough Success several years ago. I don't remember how long ago it was, but it's probably been three, four years ago now.

It's been a while.

Yeah. And Breakthrough Success. Yeah. That's your podcast. Do you have other podcasts or is it just that one?

Breakthrough success, Ditch the job and profit public speaking. I do put most of my podcast time into Breakthrough success, though.

Yeah. Okay, cool. And then it's just funny. Yeah, it's like the amount of books you've written is like insane for. And I know you're really young too, so I'm like, I don't know how the hell you do how many, but you've written what, 25? And you're working on more.

You said about 30 so far. I'm working on the next one, which is going to be for people who want to become full time writers.

Dang. Okay, see, I think you've nailed that.

Yeah, we'll have to touch on that. We'll have to touch on like how you've managed to crank out so many books because that's like more books than you've been alive than years you've been alive. I'm imagining.

Tell us about that, man. Tell us how you started. Cause I know you started an entrepreneurship at a super young age and you got your family that you kind of riff with, but tell us the story there. It's super interesting.

So I started my first blog when I was 11. This wasn't any business adventure. This was more of a hobby. So my first blog was about the Boston Red Sox. I'm in New Yorker. I'm a Red Sox fan. Anyone who knows baseball knows that is a ugly mix.

How are you alive? Still?

Just kidding.

Gotta go into hiding.

That's right.

But one of the things with the blog was I got to interact with other Red Sox fans. That was the whole point of starting it. Because I may be from New York, but with the online, you could reach anyone on the planet, including Red Sox fans. And with this blog, that allowed me to see content marketing, see digital marketing and that whole potential. So after creating a few more different blogs on different things, I really fell in love with the numbers. I fell in love with the marketing. I fell in love with conversion rates, seeing how quickly I could get out of product. So I fell in love with all that. And that's what turns me on to just the whole business front and helping people with that part.

How about your family? Was it Your brother, I believe that you guys were kind of. You've always riffed ideas around, back and forth.

Yeah, my brother's really good at Facebook ads, so I'm more of an organic type of guy. My brother's more of a paid advertising type of guy. And we both have clients we help with both of those different areas. My mom also has an entrepreneurial spirit. My dad, he is not an entrepreneur right now, but he does have an entrepreneurial past. So all of us either now or at some points had the entrepreneurial itch.

Nice. I mean, that's so damn helpful. I wish I had that in my household at a young age. But, I mean, it's all good. But, yeah, I mean, you started at 11, blogging. How about YouTube? Because I know you have some early videos there. I found one I was researching.

I was like, whoa, very early. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I'd say right before high school, maybe. I started that channel. I was definitely in high school, like, very early in high school. And I was doing stuff with the channel in 2012. That's when I first started it. But I didn't really understand YouTube. I just thought you put up a bunch of videos and people find you. But it took me a while to really learn how the algorithm works, to grow there. But a lot of this did. Like, I started in middle school with my business and then different parts. Like, the YouTube channel was also middle school. The books were something in high school. Training courses were also something I started to do in high school. And I just continue adding new things to this day.

Did you finish high school?

I did. I got through college with a finance degree also.

Oh, nice. I've got a finance degree as well.

That's really cool. I was just curious because I'm like, okay, well, if you've been entrepreneurial that early, I'm like, did he even finish school? Where you're just like, yeah, I'm too.

Rich to finish school now.

You're resourceful, man. It seems like you're super resourceful. So you're like, okay, I'm just going to learn throughout my. However I navigate my interests. That's cool.

Yeah. So just to give the audience a little bit of context, the way this episode came to be was in our Facebook group. Our group manager, Jacob put a comment up saying, how are people growing YouTube channels? And a bunch of people gave feedback. But, like, five or six of the comments on this thread all mentioned your name of, like, Mark's got this stuff figured out. You gotta go talk to Mark. And we're like, well, let's get Mark on the podcast and talk about YouTube. So in our Facebook group, you were highly regarded as somebody to go to to talk about YouTube and how to grow a YouTube channel. So that's what we're excited to dive into today. But you know, hearing that you've got 30 books and you've got a podcast and you've got all this other stuff in the mix, like, we can't ignore that and only talk about YouTube. We got to talk about all that stuff.

Yeah, I guess from your perspective, Mark, like, what do you. Cause I think it's important on both sides. But like, should we start with how you use YouTube or should we kind of show how it relates to this, like, bigger play you have with content and these other pieces of your business? Maybe we start there if you're cool with that. It's almost like the overview and then we can sink into how YouTube and YouTube growth is so important.

Yeah, so YouTube, I mean, you can make money through the AdSense, but you leave a lot of money on the table if you only use AdSense. So the way I use YouTube is YouTube is great for discoverability because you can create videos that YouTube pushes out to. Sometimes it's your audience of subscribers, sometimes it's people who have no idea who you are and it helps you grow your audience. And in the videos, I have my background, so people see my books, I have all my books in the description. One of the things I also do is whether I'm talking about like how to grow on YouTube or I'm talking about writing like, hey, if you want to explore more on this, let's schedule a strategy call. So I've gotten some clients through YouTube who they will watch several of my videos and think about someone who has watched your content voluntarily for hours. Those types of people are more likely to get on the strategy call, be engaged, become clients. And even if they don't, they're also very likely to buy your books. So I see YouTube as this big brand building piece that builds out further into product sales and also builds to the email list growth. Because the three of us know, and plenty of other people that the email list is that one audience you truly own. And there's no algorithm that can take the email list away from you, right?

Yeah, absolutely. With YouTube, do you use it to ever drive traffic off of YouTube or is part of your focus is keep them on YouTube? Because we'll hear mixed sort of opinions on that. When it comes to YouTube, a lot of people say keep them on YouTube because that, you know, that gets them going deeper and YouTube really loves that. So YouTube's gonna favor you. But then at the same time, YouTube, I know, can be a very excellent traffic source for people. So. So where do you stand on that?

I think it depends on what you want. So I have two different channels I'm working on them taking seriously. One of them is the digital marketing side. And for that channel, I want people to go off YouTube because I know that I created a video, one of them about, should you hire an audiobook narrator? Because that's something I do for people. And I got some people in the comments saying, I need to hire you for my next audiobook. So I want people to go off on YouTube and, you know, have me as their audiobook narrator. I make more money that way and it's better for the business. For my other channel, which is more about investing individual stocks called Beat the Market, I want people to stay on YouTube because then they'll binge through multiple videos of mine and each video will do better. Like for those, for those videos I see like 10 to 15% click through rate. Like some like the numbers for that channel are really good. And there's a lot more just for investing, what I've noticed, there's a lot more traction you could get of people who have no idea who you are. So for digital marketing, it's promoting to my existing audience, gaining some people from the algorithm, but taking them off of YouTube because that's my goal for that piece. But for the investing piece, I want people to stay on and binge my content.

That makes a lot of sense. And I remember one of the comments in our community as well in the Facebook group you said that the digital marketing channel doesn't really. I guess it doesn't get as much love from YouTube as your investing channel does. Right. The algorithm kind of feeds your. Your investing channel a lot more so than the other one.

Yeah. Because. So Pinterest stock, for instance, as of this interview, reported earnings today. And that's a very. You have a time sensitive topic. So I did videos about Pinterest stock and should you buy before earnings, it's a very time sensitive topic. It's something people want now. And digital marketing also does well. But it's like, you know, like, let's say how to launch a podcast. You could watch that on your own time. There are a lot of other people in that space. But for a video day of about Pinterest earnings, like there's not as many videos on that topic. So part of it is. Are you a current events type of a channel? If you can weave current events into your channel content, it does give you a lot of potential search traffic that maybe a few days after the event and you know, not as many people care anymore, it's not going to gain as much traction. But if you could tie into a current event, which is easier to do with an investing channel, you can get some of those initial momentum.

I would imagine it's less competition too, right? There's less inventory, less people making videos around that. Especially if you're quick to it morning of or whatever it is and then boom, you stand out. Hopefully you can grab them as a subscriber, lead them wherever. Where are you taking them actually for your stock tips, do you have a course or book around that too?

That one's still pretty new. So the only real thing I have for that is just the YouTube channel growth. I do have some affiliate stuff like Robinhood I'm putting up we bowl there soon. That's like a very. Like, I make more from narrating audiobooks. I do have only one book about investing. So the business side is very small on the investing front. It's just that those videos, like I don't even try and they get hundreds of views. Like, I don't have to promote. I just create the thumbnail. I create the title description done for other videos on the channel. I do have to put in a lot more effort with the marketing side. But again, people will buy my books. They'll become clients. Like there's more of a business with the digital marketing versus the investing.

Very cool.

Well, I'd love to sort of like walk through your process for YouTube a little bit and kind of get a little more granular and in the weeds with it. So let's start with how do you decide what videos to even make for YouTube? Like, you know, how do you keep the hopper full and where do the ideas come from for your next video?

So I always look at Vidiq first. Vidiq. It allows you to see how popular keyword is and also how much competition there is. So ideally you want to look for a keyword a lot of people are searching for. Not a lot of YouTubers are creating content on it. I like to go for something with a score of 60 or higher. Vidiq automatically calculates this score. So I'll compile a whole list of topics and then I'll just start creating videos on those different topics. And tubebuddy comes. I know we're talking about tubebuddy before the interview that comes in when I'm doing the tags. So I max out on the 500 characters that they give you to create tags. So Vidiq is for coming up with the topic, and TubeBuddy is more for the granular individual tags. And then once I have the tags, I update the description accordingly.

Gotcha. So Vidiq, it will analyze YouTube. I've never used it, so I'm kind of flying blind on that one specifically. So you basically plug in a concept for a video and it'll tell you how competitive it is on YouTube. Is that kind of the idea?

Yes. You plug in a keyword, so instead of a long tail, you plug in a very general phrase, like digital marketing. You can go a little longer tail, like digital marketing strategies. But the more long tail you go with it, the less Vidiq is reliable. Just based on what I have seen, they like the very broad keywords.

Gotcha. And the broad keywords will probably help flesh out some of the long tails anyway.

Right? Yeah, gotcha. So I have used Vidiq only the free version, but not in the sense you're using. You're saying here I've actually used it to what, like install the plugin? So it has this little bar, this dashboard inside of YouTube. It overlays and it gives you a score, like your SEO score, and like a checklist. Okay, so do you use that checklist and make sure you're hitting all the items that they say to do, like in cart? Because I know they have certain criteria. Is that part of your process as well, after the keywords?

Yeah, I'll chug off as many of those as I can. I do the end screen for all the videos, the cards. That is one thing I know I should be doing more of, but haven't really address that quite yet. But I do look at that to check off as many items as I can.

Nice. Got it. And for the keywords, do you need the free or the paid version of Vidiq?

I use the free version of Vidiq, the paid version of TubeBuddy.

Okay, gotcha. Good to know. Yeah. Cause I know. That was always been a question for me as well with these tools. Very cool. So then you have TubeBuddy. Right. So do you wanna. Let's get something there?

Well, I mean, I'm not sure the order of events at all. So would the next thing be figuring out tags, or would it be figuring out the title? Or what would be your next step after you've kind of got these ideas? You went into Vidiq, you sort of fleshed out what videos you want to make and then you made a bundle of videos. What's the next step after that?

The next step is you upload the video. I always come up with the title first and then I will do the tags. Because if you have the title and you have stuff that kind of gives YouTube an idea of what your video's on, Vidiq will give you better keyword suggestions. So if you don't have a title, you don't have description, Tubebuddy's not gonna be able to help you because it's just guessing what your video's about. So title first, then the tags. I do all 500 characters, as many as I can and I end with the description because at that point I know what tags I want to incorporate in the description. So it's not like I list one under the other because it's, you know, that's just a spammy description. But if I have like digital marketing, content marketing, social media marketing as tags, I'll incorporate all three of those phrases inside of the description for the video.

Gotcha. Yeah, we've actually got Rob from Tubebuddy coming on in a couple weeks here. So we're getting like super deep on how to use Tubebuddy with him. But I'm curious. So when you use Tubebuddy, you plug in the this video and it'll, it recommends tags based on other videos that are in a similar area. Like how is it picking what tags to use?

I think it's based on the title and just like any piece, like I don't fully know what goes into TubeBuddy's decisions, but I think it's based on the title for me anyway because if I pick a good title, like if I say like oh, self publishing, then Tubebuddy gives me a bunch of self publishing related keywords. If I don't do that then it's very general like business, which it's a very broad keyword and a little harder to rank for versus something like self publishing.

Gotcha.

And then thumbnails. Would that be kind of like the next sort of phase you'd figure out is creating an eye catching thumbnail?

Yeah, that's actually the last step. So I'll do the title tags, description, end screen cards when I remember it and I'll create all of the thumbnails in Canva and when I find something that works, I just run with it. So for my investing channel I have the formula that works for that content like 10 to 15% click through rate. Like, I know people tweak their thumbnails and get like higher convert. I'm not tweaking that thing. I'm gonna let that thing ride until YouTube tells me I gotta change it.

Yeah. So can you give us. Unless you're open to expelling all the secret sauce on that channel. But what are the principles behind a good thumbnail from your perspective?

You got to evoke a strong emotion. People aren't going to click just because it shows up. So something that works on the investing channel and working to carry this over to the digital marketing content, because I'd like to see that type of click through rate all across the board is I'll show like a stock chart and a downward motion. Or I'll say like, you know, should you sell, should you buy? And that type of stuff. It's like people want to know the answers to those questions. Like if you're searching for a stock, you're looking at it because you want to know if you want to buy or sell. And then the thumbnail evokes that emotional response. So that's been part of the reason why those videos have been doing well. So I've seen some of that success on the digital marketing channel. Like one of them has me on it. And then like 1000 book sales as a text. Like, you don't want too much text. You just want to be able to convey a message very well and create that emotional response. Not just something that blends in and people just scroll through it.

Yeah.

And it almost sounds like the text or the image you'll put on that thumbnail. It's almost like opening a loop in their mind. Right. There's. You see that thumbnail and you go, man, I need to know what he's talking about. There's an open loop now as a result of that image. That's kind of your goal, right?

Yeah, it's just if people go through thumbnail and you could test this out with a few people, if you don't have enough YouTube data. But if people skip through it, you have to change the thumbnail. And again, look at the data on YouTube. If I see that a thumbnail has under 3% click through rate, I change it right away. So just because I publish a video with a thumbnail doesn't mean that same video has the same thumbnail 24 hours from now. Sometimes go back and immediately change thumbnails based on what's working. Like, even the text, like very specific fonts work better than others. And I noticed that if I pick a certain font that is still legible, like click through rates will be significantly up or down because of that font. So again, once you find something that works, like just run with it. I use like the same maybe three to five pictures of myself for the thumbnail because I like having a picture of myself. A thumbnail that works based on the data. Like once you find something that works, just keep writing it.

Yeah, sure. Do you do the same sort of testing process with the titles too, or just the thumbnail?

I just do the thumbnail. I like to just in the title have those keywords that rank very well. So I'll include digital marketing or self publishing or writing tips. So I don't really do as much experimenting with the title.

Gotcha.

I thought it was interesting. Yeah. You had this bottom of 3% click through rate and then you go up from there. Yeah. It seems like if you know what the decision is or what's in someone's head, the potential viewer, like your stock channel is perfect example, you know that they want to know if they're going to buy or sell or do nothing, I guess. So that thumbnail kind of hints to the answer, it seems like. And then, yeah, you're creating the open loop so you're kind of pulling them in. It seems like understanding the psychology of that thumbnail is super important. I mean we've heard that a lot from YouTube folks. Just nail that and keep looking at it. And then I'm thinking about like the analytics and this if I'm jumping ahead, stop me because there's like so many analytics in YouTube.

It's fun. It's fun.

Yeah. Well talk like I know for thumb. So for thumbnails it sounds like you can sync all of your or you know, bring your information down to just get that data point.

Well, I just learned just now that you can even see your click through rate on your thumbnail. So that's new information to me. As of this podcast.

What are other like. Cause like with Google Analytics, just like YouTube, it's kind of like, holy crap, there's so much here. And the best advice that we've always heard is go in with a question like know what you're looking for? So how do you use the analytics side of YouTube?

I love the analytics side. So I'll just give some of the stuff. Like the more you like this is a very basic, like if you go in with this knowledge, it'll help you because it goes so much deeper and you'll be able to get deeper if you have these Down. So click through rate, you can see that channel wide. And for individual videos, this is a big metric because if YouTube sees the 10 to 15% click through rate, they are incentivized to promote the video because they know their people click on it. Because at the end of the day, like you are a creator, but you are on a platform that is very actively seeking to make money and they will push out the videos that do the best job of gaining attention and money. So click through rate, that's the first thing. Another big thing is the it's a mix of average watch time per video and retention rate. So you're actually able to track both of those. The reason I say they're both important is because in a one minute video, if you get someone watching for 50 seconds, that's an 83% retention rate, which is really good. But then 50 seconds isn't that long of a time for a video. And then someone could just browse around for another video, get Lost on YouTube and then leave. So on the other hand, you can have a one hour long video that gets like five minutes of watch time, which is more watch time than the 52nd. But five minutes out of an hour long video is horrible in terms of retention rates. So those are the metrics I use to determine the quality of a video. So if some, if the average person's watching for 50 seconds of 50% of the time, I know it was good. If someone was watched for less than 30% of the time, I know I have to fix stuff. And they will show you a chart that like you can see, I like the 2 minute 15 mark I dropped off. Like you can see down to the second where the drop offs are. So you could rewatch videos, figure out what you did. And I'll also use the reach tab which lets you see how people are finding you. So the reason that I cover certain stocks on my channel is I'll create videos, I'll see that, oh, people want this stock, they want to see what's up to date with this stock. So I will cover more on that. That's actually the reason I started the investing channel and even do more investing on my main channel because I saw that for my main channel, three of my investing videos attributed to a majority of the traffic. So I have the better business model in digital marketing. But from a visibility standpoint, the investing makes more sense. So I'm building a little bit of a model around that. And some people who they come in for the investing, they also see the digital marketing stuff.

This is so cool.

This is good shit.

I'm curious, looking into the analytics, you probably find some recurring themes, some patterns. Have you found any sort of ideal length of video? Is there a sweet spot for the length?

I think it's just a combination of video length and watch time. So I have one of my videos that is 16 minutes long, has maybe a four minute.

People watch for around four minutes, four and a half minutes. And it's an okay retention rate, but I guess relatively good considering it's a 16 minute video. So that video does pretty well. But it's about dividend investing. So part of it. There's a lot of different factors. I don't really have a how long. I don't make every video like five to six minutes. I just do whatever I feel. Sometimes I go longer, sometimes I go shorter. I do have a slight preference though to longer videos because longer videos get you more watch time which helps you with the algorithm. And if you are looking to monetize through Google AdSense, you need 4,000 hours of watch time in a 365 day period. It's not like YouTube just gives that to you. You have to get the hours before you can monetize through their platform.

Nice. Let's go into that.

Well, let's go into that in just one second.

In a second. What do you got?

Okay, so when you dig into these analytics and let's say you find a video that's 16 minutes long, but people are only sticking around for a minute, what's the course of action that you'd take if you notice that people just aren't being retained on this video.

So it's more of a we'll get them next time. Because you can't re upload a video file. Like once you have that video file, you commit, you can change the thumbnail, you can include cards, end screens, you cannot change the actual content of the video. So one thing I would do is if I have a 16 minute video that's like good click through rate but people only stick around for a minute, I would put a YouTube card at the 1 minute mark to show them another video. So smart at the time where I know people are gonna bounce off, hey, let's give them this video that I have a 40% retention rate for and people like it more. So instead of fully losing that person, you give them another suggestion. That's what I would do because again, you can't redo a video that's already published. And deleting it is just the worst thing you could possibly do unless it has nothing to do with your channel anymore.

Makes sense.

That's super smart. Yeah. You have an exit point that's not some other suggested video. It's your thing. Ideally, they're going to go pop there other than somewhere else. Smart. Is there any, like talking about end cards? Like, are there any or end screens? I guess. Is that what it's called?

End screen?

Yeah. Do you have a strategy around that? Like, do you go to a related video or some, you know, specific one that you always direct people to, to like lead capture or something?

I always do. So I'll have one thing there for people to subscribe to my channel and then I'll have another, like recommended video from YouTube. I know that as YouTubers get like, they grow more. Some of them, instead of having the subscribe option and the recommended video, they will do two videos. One of them recommended, one of them specific to what the other video is. So if I do a video about audiobooks and I talk about should you hire a narrator? I didn't do this in the should you hire a narrator Video, but I'm just giving this as an example. I talk about at the end and I say, and maybe you want to go through it yourself or maybe you want to hire a narrator. Either way, you're going to need to learn how to get sales for your audiobooks. So make sure you check out this video down below that I covered about that. And then the video would pop up. So some YouTubers do that type of style. I haven't really done it yet, but it is a way where you can get more exposure right now, more focused on getting subscribers and people who will stick around. But that is something I'll be doing more of as both the channels continue to grow.

Nice. I like that. Well, let's talk about growth now. Yeah, I want to talk about that growth. So getting to 4,000 watch hours within 365 days, you said, because this is where we're at right now, not at that point.

In order to be able to monetize. Isn't there like two thresholds? Don't you have to hit like a subscribers count and a watch time count? So what are those thresholds?

4000 hours of watch time and 1000 subscribers. So I didn't say the 1000 subscribers because I hit that with the first channel. So I don't think about it. But for people who aren't there, 1000 subscribers is that other threshold.

Okay, gotcha. So what are some strategies around that to do that? I guess quickly so people can open up monetization and kind of have more flexibility.

So the covering of like current events that relate to your channel. Like, it's not like I'm becoming this like new reporter now who, who covers every single news item. Like, that's not me. Like, stocks just happen to line up with the investing channel so that if you find an opportunity in your niche, pounce on it. Like day of or a day later, if you like. Like if you talk about Pinterest earnings a week from now, like, you're late to the party, everyone's already talked about it. So if you see some big news item in your niche, be one of the first people to, to pounce on it. Another thing that helps with the hours is just, just create longer videos. I mean, that's true. The math boils down to it. If you do, there's more video to watch in a 30 minute video than there is video to watch in a three minute video. So I don't want you to like create longer videos and sacrifice the type of channel you've become. But if you are able to add a minute here, add a minute there, keep the channel the way it's flowing. Longer videos, they give people more content to consume, which helps you get to 4,000 hours quicker.

Gotcha. So was there any sort of like external means that you used to grow your YouTube channel or was it kind of, I made good content, put it on YouTube and it got discovered? Or did you actually use, you know, you said your brother's into advertising. Did you do any advertising? Did you do any social media marketing outside of YouTube? Was there any external forces that grew your YouTube channel?

I've been very light with the ads. Like I almost never do them, especially for YouTube. For the external, there certainly was a lot of external effort. Like I have an email list, over 8,000 subscribers. I've got my podcast, I have social media, Twitter being over 400,000 followers there. So there was an external effort for my main channel, the digital marketing one, the investing content, though just due to the like news factor, there is no push I have to give. YouTube does all the push for me. So part of it does depend on your topic. But if you take the time to grow an external audience, it's going to speed up your success. And then if something happens to the YouTube algorithm, they suddenly start to favor certain content less, et cetera. You still have your audience.

Makes sense.

There's a couple of. So in our notes, there's a couple things that. And we're like, just freaking, this is awesome. I Love this episode. This is so much stuff.

This is gonna be an action guide for people on YouTube.

So what are. Like, there's a couple things that we learned in researching you that we learned about YouTube. So one of them being. And I'm sure there's more, so I'm curious if there's more on top of this. But the hashtags, Using hashtags in your description, I want to see. I want to hear about that. And just what's the deal there? And then the community tab, I still don't know anything about that. We're actually trying to find it on the YouTube app. We're seeing stories and all this stuff. I'm like, I don't know what the hell. The community tab, but educate us. And maybe anything else that we should know about YouTube that's kind of hidden.

Yeah. Let's start with the hashtags, though, because most people associate hashtags with Twitter and Instagram and that sort of stuff. But I didn't know hashtags were a thing on YouTube.

I mean, hashtags, I know they started on Twitter and most people think of them on Twitter, but they're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, they're also on Pinterest. And YouTube is another place. So YouTube lets you add up to three hashtags in your description. It just gives you some extra visibility. So you've got your favorite tags like the digital marketing, content marketing, social media marketing, as I mentioned in the earlier example, you could do at the very bottom of the description of the video. Digital marketing, content market marketing, hashtag, social media marketing, and some of the videos that use those hashtags, it's just like any other platform you put in the hashtag, you get a little more discoverability. And while hashtags, again, I think most people see it as a Twitter thing, it is something that since not as many creators are thinking about, although of course, not as many viewers are thinking about either. When you do use the hashtags, you generally have less competition for that search term. And if you do the hashtags, the three hashtags will appear right on top of your title when someone views your video. So the hashtags won't appear in a search result, but if you click on a video that has hashtags, you will see them right by the title.

And you could put that pretty much anywhere in the description. Or does it have to be anywhere, anywhere in the description. So with those hashtags, are you using, like, tubebuddy and using similar keywords to what you did with Your keyword tagging or how are you picking the hashtags?

Yeah, I'll use just like I did with. I focus more on the Vidiq. So I'll focus on stuff I use in the title. So if content marketing strategies in the title, that's going to be its own hashtag. And I could usually do that with at least two of the hashtags, sometimes all three. For the third one, I'll just pick something that showed up in TubeBuddy and. And also has a good score through Vidiq.

Gotcha.

That's cool. All right, so thank you for sharing all this. And we're also going to pass this over to our fine gentleman, Jacob on our team, who heads up our YouTube channel and our content. So we're like, study up. Thank you, Jacob. So the Community tab, that's another one that. What is it? And how can that benefit us as well for growth?

So the Community tab is something like in between Facebook posts and a tweet. That's just the way I like to think of it. Pretty much you get to write to your audience. So the only way that in the past you could communicate with your YouTube audience was you had to create a whole video. And there are some messages where it doesn't make sense to do a video. You could just write a few sentences, and this could be anywhere from maybe you came out with a new book, you want to share, a personal update so people get to know the person who's talking to them in the videos. So a community post is just a way to engage with your audience. You can also do polls. So I ask people, for instance, what type of videos do you guys want more of? I'll have pictures of myself just, again, to build that know, like, trust, get to know the audience better. Like, I like to talk a lot about how I'm a runner, and a lot of people really vibe with that, whether they also run marathons or they're getting into the sport. But a community post is just a way to communicate with your audience without having to create a video. And for some people, it's a heavily edited video, very long video. So instead of hours to communicate, just like a tweet or a little longer than that. To me, it's something in between a tweet and a Facebook post.

Yeah, I like it.

Well, because YouTube, when I heard about the Community tab, I actually, I think I assumed wrongly that it was the thing that almost looks like Instagram stories, because when I open up the YouTube app now, there's like a. It Looks just like Instagram stories, but just built into YouTube now. Are you leveraging that at all? Is that something you've played around with?

I believe for YouTube stories, I don't know if the number's 10,000 or 15,000 subscribers, but there is a certain number you have to hit before you can use that, so. Not yet. I will as soon as I get it, though.

Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I mean, there's just so many things on the app and then the community thing, I mean, I know there's a lot of ways to just engage your audience. Just on notifications that, like, I've ignored forever until, like now we're actually putting a folks on the. Oh, it's probably engaged like I would on Facebook or Twitter or whatever. On YouTube too.

Yeah.

Because I know that helps with. Or at least vid IQ says it helps when you. What you engage with people in your comments. When you heart or like a comment and. And pin it to the top. It's like all these little things.

Yeah. One thing I've been seeing, when I've been kind of doing my own research on YouTube, one thing I've been seeing more and more YouTubers do is they'll actually use the first comment as like a second description and then pin their comment to the top. Is that something you've played with at all?

Some people also. I mean, I haven't done it that way. Sometimes I'll pin someone else's comment. Two things I like to do. One, pin a comment where it kind of leads people to another video. So similar to how I talked about the end screen example, some YouTubers like to use it to promote a relevant video rather than the call to action to subscribe. You can include a video link in the description, in one of the comments, kind of tell people what the video is about and then pin it to the top. Or you can pin to the top your affiliate links. So let's say you're talking about ConvertKit and you want to, you know, have that link there. You can throw it in the description and get sales that way, but you can also mention it in a comment. And just based on my experience as a viewer, because I'm one, I don't just create the videos. I also watch a lot of other people's videos, not just for the entertainment value in the education, but also for the. I want to see what I do as a YouTube YouTube viewer to get a better idea of what people are doing on my videos. I go through the comments very frequently, and everyone who goes through the comments sees that first comment. So you can have your ConvertKit affiliate link there. You can promote a book or a course link. So there's a lot you can do with that pinned comment.

That's clever. Yeah, I like that.

That's really smart. Well, let's talk about. I mean, it's still kind of YouTube here, but you have your podcast and you have YouTube. So how are you leveraging YouTube in combination with your podcast?

So sometimes I'll post the interviews for my podcast on YouTube. I haven't been doing this as much, but it is something I sometimes do because podcast episode, talking about the 4,000 hours earlier. A podcast episode's like 30 minutes and you know you already have it, you just publish it on YouTube. I'm not doing that as much just because I want to really hone in on the algorithm because, like, some episodes are really great for the podcast, but they may not have as much algorithm potential on YouTube. So it's just a constant evolution of how I integrate the podcast with YouTube content wise. But I do direct people from YouTube to my podcast. I have the show in the description for people who want to check it out.

Nice.

Gotcha.

Yeah, because we're doing a lot more of that. We do the long episodes right now and we also have short clips that we're putting out. So we're kind of.

Short clips are good.

They're working. I mean, it's interesting some of them. Sometimes the long episodes pop off too, and we're like, didn't see that coming. And usually it's like the most. It's the ones that we just don't expect will kind of pop off in some reason. I don't know why, but it's pretty cool. Even with a tiny channel like ours, the search traffic and discoverability is definitely real. And it can work if you're, I guess, put the right keywords and content in front of them.

Yeah, well, I know, I know.

We.

We only have a few minutes left together, so let's. Let's talk quickly about your books. You know, our notes say that you have 25 books, but it's up to 30 now with one more in process.

I don't even know the best. This might be a very broad question, but how do you put out so many books? Like, you obviously have some sort of process or system. You know, how are you creat many books?

You just got to write daily content. If you do 1,000 words a day, that's 30,000 words. But that alone is a book. Like my books, they aren't the you're not going to find a novel. You're going to find an 80 to 100 page book for that. For me, that's 20,000 words, maybe a little bit less. So if I do a thousand words a day, I'm set. And even if I do only 500 words a day, that's 15,000 words per month. It still puts me in a very good position. Two of my books are also notebooks. So one of them is a podcast show notes notebook which I use because I don't want to re listen to the episode, I just want to have the links right in front of me. So I use that and I just copy one page 90 times and that's my book. Like some people, that is what they do for their books. They create a bunch of notebooks and you can do something. It sounds really crazy if you do it with written books, but you, if you think with notebooks, it's not as big of a deal. They do publish hundreds of books every single year. That's what some people do. Because it's not publishing 120,000 word books, it's creating a hundred pages. I mean, yeah, a hundred pages and then copying them over and over again with some tweaks to make it feel a little bit different. But it's just based on what type of approach you want. You can do the thousand word a day approach. You can create notebooks where you just take one page and you keep copying it and just add a little bit of like a, you know how people do like a new quote for each like daily thing? Like. Yeah, something like that.

Yeah, that makes sense. I mean that's, I mean that's the cool thing with books and publishing. I mean, really, anything, there's all these different strategies. It's not like everyone needs to, you know, nose to the grindstone, right, every single day and fight that every. Like if you're not a writer, it's like, well, maybe the journal approach is good for you and all those. I'm kind of curious.

As a business, where are you headed? Do you have a vision of where you're taking all these books and all this stuff? Are you just having a good time cranking out content and connecting the dots?

Yeah, I'm just having a good time cranking content. The investing is very new for me and I have seen a lot of success with that content. I created one investing video on my main channel. I was like, this did very good. People really liked it. But I'm digital marketing, so it's definitely more connecting the dots. Because there's going to be a mix of some investing content, some digital marketing. I know the investing content does better on the YouTube algorithm, but the digital marketing connects more of my existing business. So it's going to be a bit of a juggling act over the next few months.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was like, man, I know we do a lot, but holy crap. But again, if you have the systems and if, like, maybe a YouTube video or two, connect to that book and these ones to that book or it makes a lot of sense why you've just kind of used them to take them down the rabbit hole a little further, it seems like.

Yeah, well, it sounds like you're extremely disciplined if, you know you're writing between 500 and 1,000 words a day. You're running two YouTube channels, you're running podcasts.

He's also running, too.

And you're also running just marathons.

Damn.

Yeah, it sounds like you've got some discipline there. What is a. Can you just real quickly, like, walk us through what, like, a normal day looks like for you?

Each day is definitely different. Like, some days are my interview days, so I'll interview a whole bunch of people. Kind of like what I know. We were talking beforehand. You have a day where you'll do several hours of interviews. So I don't really have a set day, but every single day, like, every night, I will write a list of all the things I have to do the following day. And structured it was like, what time do I do this task and what time do I move on to this task? So that nightly ritual of me just figuring out what I'm going to do the next day, writing the whole list and structuring it, that is the only constant of any of my days.

But it's probably the most important strategy. I know. We've heard it so many times, I've been adopting it now, and it's like this peace of mind when you just open up the day, you know, our first thing of the day. Boom, there it is. Cool. Got my list, you know, my marching orders, so bravo to you, dude. I don't know where you're headed, but, like, you're young and you got a lot of content out there. You're probably gonna surpass everyone out there, which is good. Thank you. I don't know what else I think we hit. Oh, where can people go find you? I know you have breakthrough success is the podcast. What else? You're on Twitter. You have a lot of followers. I didn't know you had that many? That's awesome, too.

Markgooberta.com, mark with a C. That is my website. I do all digital marketing stuff on that site. If you want the investing, I do content on medium because that's also something I do. I do my Beat the Market YouTube channel and my main YouTube channel, which is just the marker buried channel. I talk a mix of investing and digital marketing, so those are some of the places to find me.

Awesome. Well, we'll link all those up in the show notes so anybody listening can get easy access to all those. And, Mark, thanks so much. This has been awesome. This has been a masterclass in YouTube for me, so I know it will be for the audience as well.

Yep. And for Jacob listening. Thanks, Jacob.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks, Mark. Have a good one.

All righty.

Ooh. Hey.

Now that was a masterclass, dude.

I felt like we were. It was just like, thing, thing, go a thing answer, thing answer, thing answer. Yeah.

Well, you know, I did kind of feel like we were, like, drilling him or grilling him or whatever. I felt like it was just kind of like, all right, question, question, question. But, like, I think that's how he thrives. I think Mark really, really, like, appreciates, like, I just like to answer questions.

He said he had a good time afterwards, so I'm just gonna trust that that's the truth. Yeah. But, yeah, we got a lot, man.

As far as, like, a dense, actionable episode. This has probably been one of the sort of densest and most actionable. I feel like somebody could listen back to that episode, have no YouTube channel at all yet, and know, okay, cool. I know how to get ideas for videos. I know how to go and, like, figure out how to title the videos. I know how to upload them. I know how to pick titles. I know how to put images on them. I know how to pick the keywords. I know how to drive some initial traffic.

Like, everything.

Like, you can go and run a. Start a YouTube channel based on listening to that.

Yeah. And Mark is. He's like a savant with market. I mean, he's probably a savant general doing this at 11 years old, blogging and then now written, what, 30 books, he said.

Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean. All right, so before we get into our takeaways, get the notes. Like, you should definitely get the notes for this one. I don't know how long. How long they are.

I'm gonna go get the notes on this one when they come out and just, like, have it sitting next to me anytime. I'm on YouTube.

Yeah. I mean, this is probably gonna be no joke. Jacob on our team is probably gonna use this as, like, a lot of a man. Like, Like a manual or sops for our own channels. So get the notes@flowchart group.com. that's flowchartgroup.com and you'll join the Facebook group, but you also get the notes. Give us your email address there. Promise it is worth it. We took the notes for you, so. All right, so takeaways. Matthew, you go first.

I just said my takeaways. That was a master class.

It was a master class. All right, so two tools. We like tools, and these are tools. We're actually having one of the TubeBuddy folks on the podcast pretty soon, but TubeBuddy was one of them. And Vidiq. Vidiq is one I've used quite a bit. The free version. Not the way that Mark was saying, though. But yeah, those two tools, by far, even on that thread, that Facebook thread in our group, that kind of kicked off this whole conversation, so many people were referencing both of those tools.

Yeah.

I think TubeBuddy maybe a little bit more, but you can see how Mark used it. I think it's super smart because there's a lot to those tools. But if you use them for the best of what they do, which I think is what he's done, and I definitely trust him because he's very analytical. It seems like. Like, I. I defer my brain or tool selection to someone like that.

Yeah. And. And we are going to have Rob. I don't know if he's the only founder or one of the founders. There's multiple founders.

I don't think he's a founder.

Oh, he's not a founder.

I don't know. Okay. I don't want to dub his title because I don't know.

Oh, okay. So we have Rob from TubeBuddy coming on. I don't know his title yet. We'll find it out when he comes on the show. But we're going to, like, really, really deep dive into, like, what TubeBuddy can do to grow your YouTube channel and. And all that kind of stuff, I think. So I did have some takeaways in the sense that he was talking about things that before having conversations with him. I didn't even know that you could do with YouTube.

Right.

I didn't know that people were using hashtags on YouTube. I didn't think that was a thing. I didn't know about all of the various analytics. I knew YouTube had analytics. Right. But I didn't know that you can like put an image thumbnail up and see what kind of click through rate that thumbnail was getting. And then if the thumbnail was getting below a certain threshold, you can go swap that thumbnail out and try to optimize your thumbnail. I didn't know people were optimizing thumbnails on YouTube. That's a new revelation to me.

Hey, what he said under 3%, that's when he starts reworking the thought.

That's his personal metric.

Yeah, yeah. And 15% is like his holy grail, it seems like. But yeah, like I've, I've actually dug a lot more into YouTube analytics, the stats and stuff, I think, than you. But it's like a Google Analytics where it's just. You have charts up the wazoo, man, and it's everywhere. It's insane. But I didn't know how far you can drill down into these things and what the things that he likes the Most are those CTRs for, for the thumbnails. But then he said average watch time and retention, like that kind of combo. Because that's the quality of your videos.

Yeah.

So it just makes like a perfect, you know, and maybe Jacob, this is something to consider. It's a good KPI for your videos to see like how well you're doing.

Yeah.

Overall. And then he said the reach tab too, which is.

Yeah. Another thing that he said.

See where people are coming to your stuff.

I have heard this advice before, but he, he sort of reminded me of it. And I think it's really, really smart when you go and watch like your retention metrics, you can watch where people drop off. So if you have like a 10 minute video and people seem to drop off at 59 seconds in or whatever, you can go and add like a card on the screen that says like, hey, here's another video you might like. So the people that are starting to lose attention, maybe they'll go click and watch a different video for, for you. And the people that are attentive can continue watching that one.

Smart.

But I think that's really smart to watch when people drop off and then try to throw another call to action in at that point. So the people that might have dropped off, you're giving them something else to go do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Without losing them forever, potentially. Yeah, yeah. And that's. It is smart because you can't upload another YouTube video. Yeah. You could tweak all these things. But if like you have someone you might as well, retain them there too. I'm seeing YouTube as like a. Just. You can create a really good journey within just a single YouTube video or your channel, even without a ton of people. Well, we had the guys, Tristan, Tristan and Aaron.

Yeah.

On the podcast talking about their video or YouTube flywheel concept. So check that out because that kind of. That's a lot more of a journey path. If you learn this, go find Tristan and Aaron's flywheel concept episode with us.

Yeah. And I mean, this episode for us was.

It came out of a little bit of selfishness. Like we were trying to grow a YouTube channel right now over at HustleandFlowchart TV. So definitely go check out our YouTube channel. You'll see as of this recording, we have under 200 subscribers. So it's fairly new.

Help us.

And so you can actually see us implement a lot of the stuff we're talking about if you go over to that YouTube channel. But this episode came because we posted on Facebook, like we mentioned in the call, and everybody was mentioning Mark's name, going, this is a guy you got to talk to around YouTube. You got to talk to this guy. And so we're really, really kind of putting a lot of eggs in the YouTube basket, you know, over the. Really, really going to go hard on YouTube. I think one of the things that we're noticing about our personal brand just kind of, you know, giving some behind the scenes insights here is we've tried Instagram. We can't fricking make Instagram work for us. It does not really drive traffic to our business. I think there's like a brand element where.

That's what I was going to say. I think there's other aspects we'd have to look at the brand and maybe top of mindness with the right people if we tag them.

Yeah. So the tagging thing I think is where we do get some traction on Instagram is if like a new episode goes live, we'll tag that person. On post about that episode, we were.

Watching some tags, people tagging.

Yeah. Alex Charfen was, was tagging one of the episode.

He was in audiograms and stuff.

Yeah, yeah. So like, I think with Instagram there is that branding thing. But like the brand value for me of Instagram is sort of hard to quantify. So really like where we see results on Instagram is that sort of retweeting. Not retweeting, re. Sharing stuff, re storying stuff.

Sure. Whatever you call it a good term for that. You don't know me.

And so my Favorite social media platform is Twitter. I really like. I hang out on Twitter. I'll kind of scroll through the feed and reply to people on Twitter and stuff. As far as driving traffic to our podcast and to our business, we've got no traction with Twitter, really. We have played around with Pinterest. Very, very, very, very little. We had Stefan Ciancio on our show a couple years back. He gave us some Pinterest strategies. We had a hard time getting traction with Pinterest. Facebook, we've got our Facebook group and we run Facebook ads, but organically on our Facebook pages and stuff. It's crickets, right? So all of this to say, like, we've sort of honed in on. All right, we're put a lot of focus on growing the podcast, the audio. We were going to put a lot of focus on growing the YouTube channel and sort of secondary focus over on Instagram for that sort of branding element. And that's a place where people like to share that they were on podcasts and things like that. So that's kind of like our roadmap. But YouTube is a big piece of that.

And also our personal accounts, I feel like, do well. So, like, when I share in my. And it's very strategic where, you know, like, what kind of stuff do I share, you know, to get the most reach.

Links to pornhub, always.

Yeah, Facebook loves that. They love it. So. But no, like, posting, like a text post or a video sometimes, but then tagging someone or maybe not tagging someone, and I don't know, like, I feel like our personal pages and stories go way further. And this is probably across the board. I. This might not be news to anybody, but. Yeah, but either way, it's just. Yeah, this is behind the scenes. So I think strategically I post stuff on my personal page sometimes just knowing that I'm going to get a lot more traction and then, you know, tag, hustle and flowchart to reshare it.

But I think when it comes to, like, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn. We didn't mention LinkedIn and Facebook. We get a lot more attraction just using our personal profiles, for sure. So from a business standpoint, we're going to try to grow the podcast, we're going to try to grow the YouTube channel, but then, like, most of the other stuff you'll probably see on social media is going to be on our personal channels.

Yeah, man. All right, so this is a good episode.

I don't want to say anymore because I think there was.

There's a dense episode. There's so much in there.

My brain is literally starting to kind of hurt a little bit. So it's all good in a good way.

You want to massage it?

It's only one ear, though. For some reason it's not coming through my right ear. Yeah, the one ear massage mat's weird. All right, I expect you to massage my other ear right after we hit stop here.

Just flip the headphones around.

That's a good point. All right, one sec. Get the notes again. Flowchartgroup.com you'll get them all there. Just make sure you plug in your email address to actually get the notes notes emailed to you. And we have Easy Webinar is our loyal sponsor and they are amazing. Casey and the crew are hooking you up for a fat percentage off of Easy Webinar your subscription. If you're attempting anything around webinars, there's actually we're talking more about our affiliate strategies recently and our method of KSTing that's a key step tutorial for all y' all out of the loop kst and.

We'Ve been making some welcome sequences and new emails and stuff like that. A whole new lead magnet. And one of the examples is actually using Easy Webinar in there and how we promote them as an affiliate for years now before they were sponsors and using this method, you actually lined out how you can use webinars to automate your affiliate sales and the tool in that kst. And you should probably figure out what a KST is. I will let you do some digging. You'll find it and you'll see how we actually use webinars and explain it in this doc and how we use Easy Webinar as doing that. So that's one example of how you can use Easy Webinar as an affiliate and how we've done it and then you can learn KST as well. But all that to say is you should try out. If you're thinking about webinars, Easy Webinar is your tool. So go get that. You'll get a fat hookup if you go to easywebinar.com hustle. You should go if you think some folks are struggling around YouTube growth and YouTube stuff or you're thinking about getting on the YouTube train or someone else.

Go share this episode.

Yes, please. And leave us a comment. Review. We read them all, we love them and tag us.

Might even shout you out one of these outros. That's something we should do more of is read some of the reviews we mentioned at one time. We're gonna start doing it and then we just just haven't done it as much as we've wanted. So let's start reading some reviews again.

As these out, maybe we could start in the next episode we record today and quick way to get on our radar. If you want to get a shout out on the podcast, go tag us in social somewhere and share this thing. So thank you. All right, till next time, peeps.

Thanks everybody for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliff's Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreenprofits.com find this episode that you just listened to wiki and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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