Mastering SEO for Lead Generation - Strategies for Converting Traffic into Customers with Gert Mellak

You solve a question they have with what they want to achieve, but you try to think what is actually the next step they are going to be looking for. And if they see this is in line with what this article is about, they're just very likely to opt in.

Hey, I'm Joe Fear and welcome to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. This is where we talk all about building businesses so they give you the freedom and fuel for your life. I'm not here to help you build a billion dollar business, but I am here to help you create a business with systems that work for you so you can make more money than you need just by working Part. You know, I was a chronic Hustle mode kind of guy and I want to share my experiences and mentors I've met along the way to help you reframe things to be the most effective as an entrepreneur. I wish I had this guidance and insight when I was younger. So that's what I'm doing here for you. Please share and enjoy. Hey hey. We're back and this is another episode as part of our SEO series. And this one is again with the search engine optimization expert and digital marketer. 20 years plus us in this space and that is the longest I've known of anyone doing SEO in this. This is why Gert Malik is the one that I called to do this SEO series and also he's the one that I use for anything when it comes to SEO. So he's back again with this third episode and this one's all about how SEO pairs up with lead generation and conversions and how you can optimize your website, your business online to attract quality leads using some pretty simple techniques. And he's going to talk about a lot of things, about the importance of it, what to track, what to focus on, what pages are important, what keywords should you be targeting to attract these quality leads? Doesn't matter if you're a local business or an online business, there's strategies for both and they're very similar. Kind of track the engagement and the journey of these folks so you can get them to not only opt in for your lead generation, your lead magnets, but also start to convert down the line. So Gert is the man. He's going to lay all this out. And if you feel like you are a little bit in over your head when it comes to SEO, we have already done two previous episodes with Gert all about SEO. So go back, they're going to be linked in the show notes or wherever you're listening to this, you'll find them. The first episode was all about the fundamentals around SEO, search engine optimization, and also where things are going with AI and all the different changes that are happening so quickly. And the second episode was all about brand reputation management, but also how your brand shows up in all the search engines out there and what you can do about it. So you are showing up and putting your best foot forward. So check out those if you'd like, but this one is all about the lead gen and conversions. You're going to love Gert in the way that he lines us all out. And if you really want to dive in deeper, I urge you to go check out his website. It has a treasure trove of SEO related things resources. There's an AI beginners course around SEO. He has a podcast and of course his own service and the fact that he does all these audits and whatnot. He's awesome. It's over@SEO leverage.com Again, that's SEO leverage.com and please reach out to myself too. Reach out to both of us and let us know what you think about this, what you want to learn about SEO. I'll give you my email. It's joe@hustleandflowchart.com I am reading them. I will respond to you and I would love to hear from you. So enjoy this episode. Get ready to take some notes and I'll see you in there. Gert. We are back. It's round three, and this time we're going to deep dive into more SEO topics, of course, but this one about lead generation and conversions and how that pairs up with search engine optimization. So excited to have you back on, my friend.

Awesome. Joey. It's so good to be back and I'm really looking forward to specifically this one. We've been doing so much work on lead gen and SEO, so we're going to bring some value across, I hope.

Oh yeah, I know it. I know it, man. And in the previous episodes, just to call those back out, there have been two other episodes so far that you and I have done and around what kind of like the foundations of SEO. So if you're a little over your head or don't know what SEO is, recommend go start with the first one that's all linked up in the show. Notes, of course, easy to find. Then the second one was all about your brand and how you can essentially show up and make sure you show up and not other people that are kind of taking your brand space when it goes to search and all these things. And there's a lot of changes happening. So I guess, Gert, how do we. I'll just give it to you and maybe a little intro update what's happening on your world and where we start here.

Yeah, definitely. I appreciate it. So we're definitely still on the AI train and we're never going to get off, apparently. New tools coming out. You were just sharing another one, so it's definitely interesting. And it's just interesting to really now break it down to use cases. It was fascinating to see how many tools can actually come out pretty much at the same time. Really fascinating to see. But I think now everybody got a little bit more focus on how can we actually use these things, right? How can we be more productive? How can we really do what we were doing anyway now more efficiently or more of it at the same time? And this is what I really like now, where things get practical and we say, okay, how do we do our podcast transcriptions and show notes? How do we actually create content? What kind of research can we do? I was talking to my team before how we can come up with new angles for articles and questions and all these kind of stuff. And this is where it's really fascinating these days to just figure out new things of doing what we have been doing for years in a much better and faster way.

Yeah, it's true. Like, there've been a swell of tools and AI and this new way of thinking. And I know it relates perfectly to SEO and creating content, but also optimizing content and using tools and people. Like there's. People aren't just going away here, of course, but we need to know what we're doing with intention, with all this stuff and maybe shout out really fast. So SEO Leverage is your website. So if you like Gert and what he's doing, I mean, he's got a treasure trove on his site. You have a whole podcast there and you go deep dive. But also, I think you mentioned you do have an AI SEO type course, right? Like a beginners type thing?

Yes, we. We started a beginner course for. For people really to get their feet wet. It's not advanced just yet. We are planning to add more stuff very soon, just as we. As we develop more. More ways to. To use AI and specifically ChatGPT. We just want to make sure that we communicate this in. In some private group there.

Right on. Cool. Yeah. So go check out seoleverage.com to go find all that stuff. And this episode I want to dive into. Let's do Legion and Conversions and how that pair. So I guess what, how does that even look like, you know, in this world of SEO and like where do we start with this Gert?

I think one good point to start is to is really with tracking. So a lot of people, they either want sales or they want leads. Hardly anybody only wants traffic, right? At least in my space we're not working too much only with people who want to sell their site for a profit and flip them. They are more focused on, on really getting the traffic in. My clients want qualified leads usually or sales from E commerce. Right. And the ones that want leads, they are very well aware that this relates to the content that have on your website. Okay. So when clients come and say okay, why don't I get any leads, have such good content, et cetera, we really audit the content, go through it and say which of those pieces of content of those 800 they have on the blog can actually bring in a buyer at a time where they would take the next step. And very often this is the first shock for people when we then come back and say hey, this is not social media where just share what you think. If you want results, you reader really need to get into it. And this is where tracking really is the first step. Where we track actually converts into a lead who fills in a form. But we even take it one step further and track the so called soft conversions. How do people behave when they come to the site? Not everybody is going to be ready to ask for a proposal or schedule in a call. But people are going to show you with their behavior, how engaged they are, how ready they are to explore what you're doing. Are they taking out your about page? Are they taking out your contact page? And we can track those things and then actually see where did those people come in that went to the contact page. And this is a really interesting data stream that you create where you're like hey, out of all the 800 articles there are just three that bring people actually took the contact page, which are they? Can we write more about those topics? Can we get more traffic to those articles? Can we maybe share this articles on social media and also create more leads. So we want to really make sure that we have the data in place to make informed decisions because this is then going to directly inform what we can do in order to drive leads up.

Awesome. So talking about that, so we talked about tracking pages and of course qualified leads. So let's start with tracking. So what kind of tools, what are we talking about with tracking? What's some of the basic setups that.

We should all have very basic Google Analytics for now and conversion tracking. So you want to be able to go to your Google Analytics and see how many people per channel, really organic or social or direct paid ads, where do they come in and actually how many convert. If this tracking setup is correct, you already have a very good foundation to know what's happening on your website. Then it's a matter of extracting the data from the right places. And this is where we very often already have got it.

So with that, and I know analytics, a lot of folks should have that set up at a minimum. Conversion tracking, I know gets a little bit more. Maybe people are like, what's that all about? Is there a, like, do you have a resource or is that something you can kind of explain here? At a high level we help a.

Lot of people and interestingly even seven, sometimes eight figure companies setting this up. At a very basic level, if you have Google Analytics on your website, whenever you open up a page Google, there is a code on that page that's going to tell Google Analytics, hey, I'm here, right? So you click on the homepage, code says, hey, there's a guy from Spain, from Madrid with a Chrome browser and a Mac now on the home page, right? And then I click on the contact page in Google Analytics analytics going to say, hey, now I'm here on this contact page. And it's the same guy from Madrid with the Chrome browser and a Mac, right? So they chase you across your journey and whenever you open up a page, there's an information sent to analytics so they can afterwards aggregate this data and say, okay, those people that come from Madrid, how do they behave on this website? Now when this person goes through your form and lands on a page that says, hey, thank you for opting in, here's the download to your checklist or to a free course, etc. Again, Google Analytics says, hey, we are here. Just that we configure Google Analytics and say, hey, if somebody lands on the thank you page, apart from saying hey, we are here, also make a note that this is a conversion. So then we can say, okay, how many people come to this particular page? And this would then give us how many conversions actually have happened. And because Google Analytics knows about the user journey, they can then aggregate this data again and say, look, from the people that came to this thank you page, a lot of them came through this particular article or through this particular channel. And this is then information that we as consultants can interpret for clients and help Them understand and say, hey, if you blog about this and that topic a little bit more, chances are that your leads are going to go up because it seems to trigger people at the right moment.

That makes sense. Okay. So that, that helps us at least zero in on the path, the journey that individuals take. But then we can kind of take a step back and look at the, maybe the macro trends of our particular site, dive into some keywords or content posts or pages that are actually attracting those, those folks organically. Gotcha. Okay. Yo. Breaking the action really fast to shout out the Ahrefs webmaster tool. These guys, Ahrefs are the presenting sponsor of this SEO series I'm doing. And this webmaster tool is totally free. So it's a no brainer. Just pause the episode and go to a hrefs.comawt Again, that's www.a hrefs.comawt. go get this tool. It's gonna tell you where you're ranking for things, different keywords. You can figure out what are some money keywords, some potential things that will lead to these quality conversions, these leads that Gert's talking about. Maybe there's some duds too, but either way, you're going to have a great snapshot of how you're showing up in the rankings and then what to do with that information. So go get that tool again. A H r e f s.comAWT all right, let's get back to the episode. Yeah. And how about the like pages? You know, certain pages on our, like, what are the core pages you would recommend? Of course there's content pages like blog posts, articles, podcasts. You mentioned the about page and contact page. I feel like those are pretty key and everybody should have them. Would you agree that are there other pages that you think are necessary that you found that are pretty like 80, 20? Those are the most common pages?

Absolutely. So just, just imagine or think about your own search behavior. You like something you might be considering in a millisecond working with this company. What's the first thing you're going to do? You're going to click on About Us. You're going to click on contact, see where are they located. You would expect to find an address, a phone number, ideally maybe a contact form, a Google Maps listing. And if there is some sort of local relevance, even some online businesses, the chip nationwide have actually local relevance. If they look into this a little bit more, you might have location pages which are really good. So somebody looking, even if it's a service like SEO for Example, Right. We have a dedicated page for SEO in Spain just because we know people search for SEO in Spain specifically to find a provider who can help them in this market. Right. So location pages in general are really good. Why? Because they just catch a really strong intent. Think about the search. Right. Somebody searching for a search service plus city. They are not just inquiring in general. Right. Somebody that's looking for a car repair shop in, I don't know, Santa Barbara is probably going to need help.

Right.

It's not like somebody typed in car repair shop because they want to open up one tomorrow. They have this very specific intent in mind. And very often when you combine keywords with locations, you already catch this intent. And this is very often the difficult part for lead generation. How. What kind of keywords or topics do you need to rank for in order to catch people at that time where they are ready to take the next. Next step in their journey?

Right? Yeah. And I mean, there's so many ways, like this was a local business that makes a lot of sense paired up with a location, obviously a keyword or maybe a service you provide plus that location. We were looking at my website and. Cause I just migrated things around and obviously not a location base. It's podcast, but there's online services consulting. But a lot of names, my guests have been or show up in rankings and there's, you know, that's how traffic has always kind of grown. This podcast is organic search through a lot of the guests and topics as well. So there's ways to optimize for that. And knowing that people are searching, you know, in my case, a guest name, they're probably interested about that person. So they're a lot warmer of a lead and they're intent on diving deeper and whatever that person is or what they talk about. So that's kind of like how I think of it and have thought of it for years now. Yeah.

So I mean, the interesting part with the. With the online world is that it's still local. Right. So people still prefer to work some with someone who is in their area. Even if they never physically meet this person, they're still going to look for a consultant in their area. And this is where even a service that's delivered online 100% is going to have a lot of potential with location pages from their most important locations. We were working with a relationship consultant, counselor, for example, who's providing their service exclusively over Zoom since the pandemic happened. And we just scaled his business up by creating presence for him in different Locations because people still want a counselor from their city. Even if it's 100% Zoom based, the search and the intent comes through the location. So even for non local businesses, it's a really big potential here.

Interesting. So maybe we talk about that because I like that idea. I know there's a lot of online businesses listening. There's also local businesses so we could touch on that. But yeah, how do we optimize for that? So is it purely content generation and creating more of that around these locations, you know, to qualify the folks or have us actually present ourselves as more of a targeted path for them? Or is there some other approaches we could talk about here?

There are definitely different approaches. So first of all, usually the main page you want to have is a location page for this particular city, for example, or suburb. Depends on how big your city is. And then the content on this page needs to be relevant. You can't just use one template and switch two, three words. This used to work 15 years ago. It doesn't work anymore. You really need to provide value and present yourself properly and also be in line with what Google actually wants to rank for this kind of query and take a glance. Do they have a Google Maps listing? Do people usually have like a physical office? And I don't. Some of my clients even opened up a virtual office just to have a virtual address in this area. Because it gives you a Google business profile, it gives you extra points for local SEO. You can have your reviews from that area in this particular business profile. Ultimately it's about connecting the dots. It's also about the links. Where do you get your links from? Are you having links from this area, a local magazine for example, that could link to you? Can you partner up with the school and sponsor an event? Do they talk about their sponsors and that you were the sponsor for local SEO? This is an entire entirely separate segment. But I definitely, definitely want to the online business and not ignore this field because it can actually be very relevant and drive exactly the leads in when they're ready to ask you and contact you.

Got it. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. It makes your online business a lot more real intangible in the eyes of people. And I feel like it's trustworthy not only in the people who are searching for you, but in Google. Like you mentioned in previous episodes, I think it was want to kind of have a similar thing connected on multiple platforms. Platforms like you know, your bio, how you present yourself, but in this case maybe your address, your phone number, all the contact information and make sure that Google is obviously condensing that into their own platform. But the more signals you put out there like this, including on your own website, the better off you're going to be. However Google's going to be in the future.

Absolutely. This also also works not only works for lead generation, it even works really well for E commerce as well. So we have seen E commerce sites that obviously ship us wide, for example, but having really good success once they start ranking for city combinations. And you want your whatever purchase online, you want this from a local provider at first, but if the price and the offer and everything convinces you you're going to buy it anywhere as soon as it ships fast. So there's actually also some really nice potential there.

Got it. Okay, well, let's talk about on page optimizations that we can do now. So that seems like a lot of the off page stuff and some on page, but how would you approach that with things that we can control on our own website now?

Right. So for lead generation in general, we need to kind of be really aware of where people are when they come to our page. And this is where there' specific keyword or topic they have probably typed in when they come to you. Really comes into play because there are like very generic searches where people just explore this topic or there are searches that qualify them as really further down the funnel and probably ready to take action. You really want to cater to this most likely visitor that's coming in from the content perspective and kind of build up to this lead magnet. Usually you have a lead magnet, you have a PDF, a free course, or anything that in exchange for an email address, the more value this has, the more likely they are to give you their email address. But also the content on the page should kind of build up to this. Sometimes we see people create an article about what they want to write about and then they just squeeze in some calls to action and say, okay, if they want my ebook, they should download it and nothing happens. And then they come to us and say, hey, I've got X amount of traffic but no leads, what can I do? And then I take out and say, why should anybody who's looking to solve a particular problem with their computer now download your ebook? Right. It just doesn't go together. However, if this is solving this problem and you have maybe a buyer's guide for a better laptop or something like this that might go in line with those people, you sudden going to get probably 10x or 20x deletes just because they actually see. Okay, you understand where they are in this journey or online courses, for example. Right.

Broad offer that maybe captures the topic that you generally talk about and then a lot more of a refined specific to the content that's being created. And yeah, it could be localized in some cases if it needs to be or not. But yeah, definitely that. And catch them where the intent is because I think that's always the key thing is, is pairing up the offer, the lead magnet or whatever it is to the exact point they are in their journey. I guess the tracking, the analytics kind of tell us that too.

Absolutely. And it's. And it's very often people also need to kind of frame their expectations, I believe. And it's okay. How likely is it that somebody who is just here to find out how to delete all or how to close all their apps on their iPhone, how likely is it that they're going to download an ebook about how to better use your iPhone or how to purchase the next iPhone or why iPhone is better than Android or whatnot. How likely is it? Right. Sometimes we are asking for too much and it's like just not going to happen. But if this is maybe the five iPhone hacks you can see in one page and download this, it's much more compelling and it might actually catch the attention. Whereas a general ebook that's not related to what I'm looking for right now, not related to my position, is really hard to bring across. It's a good catch always as I call this. Right. So like a general lead magnet as you put it. But then for your top traffic sites at least you really want to customize the lead magnets.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. On page stuff, I guess that kind of covers a lot of the on page is because it's all about the general journey. I think that's the big key here is the intent. Catch them on. On some kind of organic result, show up and optimize that. And you know, there's a variety of tools. I know we mentioned hrefs and they use that. They're sponsoring this, this whole series here. And that's what I use as well to just see where am I showing up right now. For now we'll see how Google maybe changes things up with AI and their search results. But the point is I feel like these are foundational things that, that Google wants to see. You know, they want to see that you're what different metrics like even on page. I'm thinking of people when they're with your content. Google typically favors you if your users are Hanging out longer. Right. And actually going to multiple pages within your website. So I guess that plays in.

There's a little bit of a contrast here, I think, depending on who you ask. Dwell time, yes or no. Right. The time they take. It's. I think there are different opinions. I personally believe it factors in just because it's easy for Google to track and the chance that they just spend more time on this site because they're looking for something the site doesn't have is really low. I do believe personally that it factors in, but very often we get clients and say, hey, I'm going to put videos all over the place because then people are going to play those videos and then spend more time on my site and then everything is going to work out nicely. I don't believe in that. Right. So it is good if you engage your users like you say, you bring them with internal linking, maybe to other places, you give them, have them fill in the form, et cetera. I do believe this helps. It also is going to help that they remember your brand. So I don't know how much of this is actually direct impact or it's really played across the brand awareness. So the longer you spend on or the more you engage with a brand on their website. Website, the more you're going to remember the name and the more you're going to search for this name and the more Google is going to see the people search for this name. So very often I think a lot of the impacts that we see in SEO probably be a direct. Have a direct relation, have an indirect one across the branding.

It's hard to track branding, but it's like all the effort and like you mentioned in some previous episodes, it's keep your messaging simple, keep it kind of concise and, you know, uniform across all the pages and your different social profiles and whatnot too. So they're all helping the brand, supporting that, but it's. It is indirect at the end of the day. So how about when it comes to paid traffic or advertising, how does that play into SEO and Legion in what we're talking about here?

Yeah, so we very often use Google Ads for market research, for example. It's okay. I'm not exactly sure which keyword really triggers better leads or brings in more conversions, et cetera. You can do very quickly some campaigns with Google Ads and just get a feeling for what's coming in. Even if they don't convert into leads directly, you just watch their behavior. How far do they scroll, do they engage? Do they actually come to the contact page through this keyword. And sometimes you get a very clear or very often you get a very clear trend and say, okay, forget this keyword, let's focus on the other two. Maybe run another test or so. And you can also work on your messaging, on your titles, do some really quick research, get a feeling what the actual search volume is. Because tools, although ahrefs is really close already, they themselves recognize it's very different from the reality at times. So you can just do this tracking with ads and then with ads in general, you increase the brand awareness. So more people, the more ads you run, the more people are going to search for your brand. Brand where the brand, search, search branding that we were talking about last time actually comes in where it's okay, you really want to optimize page one when somebody searches for you because this is definitely going to have an impact.

Yeah, that makes sense. And it's, it's a great way to test and because yeah, there's probably a lot of things that we have that are ranking that really aren't targeted too much into a lead or a conversion. And this could be a good, a way to maybe circumvent that. Like to not build more content around a topic that's just really not going to serve your business in the long run.

Yeah, absolutely. And with Google Ads there is even another topic which is remarketing. Right. So a very quick win for to improve performance is to bring people back. So very often we expect people to find us, we have a good ranking, we get them to our website, we expect them to turn into a lead and they might be standing in line at Starbucks. And just when they start to like our site, the coffee is ready and they're off. They're just not in this moment or not in this, not on the device or in this environment where they could actually fill in this form and actually inquire. And then when they perform the next search, they might happen to click on someone else, someone else's brand and then maybe convert there. So with remarketing, which ultimately just means people come to your website and see banners and videos from your brand again. And in very simple terms, this is really powerful. We had a client, I remember in the tourism space, they even made our feedback with a remarketing campaign within a few days because it was just giving people another chance to actually fill in their form, which was really complex. They required some data, some documentation, etc. So having everything ready in the first visit was not realistic. And then remarketing just gives you more exposure to those people that already have seen you have been impacted you. It continues to warm them up and it's usually a really good additional value for your campaign when you have the Google Ads account already.

That is true. Yeah, that's a good point because we've done a lot of that with different products that I put out with Matt as well is yeah. Not only are the Google Ads great for the influx of potential new traffic, targeted traffic release branding be top of mind. But yeah, it's the remarketing on Google, Facebook, Instagram or I'm sure there's other platforms now. And yeah, I know with the cookies and all this stuff that have changed over the years it still works like it's still around, you know, the remarketing. So yeah, definitely don't, don't sleep on that because everybody needs a good reminder and of course that's the point of Legion anyway, right. Is to remind them an email. So with the intent that get them on an email list with a targeted offer like you said and you know, track those conversions and understand the trends on your website and how to optimize further.

Absolutely.

Cool. Well, I mean before. So this is, this is a lot. Is there any point, I guess when it comes to the lead gen conversion elements that we might have not touched or uncovered on this one, I think.

It'S really important and you stressed this a few times is this first intent. They come in and really cater with your lead magnet to this intent. But then also, and this is something we can just help people a little bit but they really need to look into this is what do you actually do with those leads? So people catch those leads to have them sitting on the email list. They might reach out to them twice and then leave it for two months and then reach out again, et cetera. So people tend to tend to get frustrated. We have people coming to us and say look, we have 20,000, 50,000 people on our email list collected over the years and they say how often do you send out an email? And they say woof. In Christmas we send them a Merry Christmas email and stuff like that. And they just get frustrated. And it's potentially it's people who actually were ready to give you their email address in most cases the good one in exchange for something that you're offering. Why would you have them sit there? But this happens so often. It doesn't really make sense to have a lead gen campaign if there's this converting component not built on, not ready or not being worked consistently. So before you set this up, you really want to make sure that this follow up works and tweak it and say, okay, which subject line does the third email have to have in order to actually work and get better open rates? Check the engagement. Do people click on those articles that you send out? Do they actually engage? Do you get them to reply? What's actually the value of this lead? The value of the lead is not going to come across until you see how they engage, how they're actually interacting with those emails. Right. So if you have links, how often do they click, etc. There's an entire different topic. You probably had someone on the show focusing more on the email marketing side of things, but this is definitely what we tell everybody to make sure that it works. And at some point you just want to know, okay, what is my average cost per lead across different platforms? And this is where SEO can really bring this down. We have people sometimes getting 1,000, 5,000 leads a month through SEO. So whatever they're doing in the paid space, the SEO definitely brings the average cost per lead down.

Yeah, it's knowing your costs because after a while you do understand, you know, if obviously if you're doing paid ads, that's another cost. But even organic, like there's cost to doing all of this time and money. But at the same time we need, we got to figure out what the value is, what our return on ad spend, or I guess organic spend. I don't know if there's an acronym for that. I know there's roas and but, but yeah, it's understanding. Yeah. These metrics, these key metrics are, are what's going to help fuel this and in compound efforts rather than kind of going here and bouncing around and not seeing how that gets the through line or the journey is, is really coming out.

Absolutely, absolutely. And one aspect that's really also important is that sometimes we make it really hard for people to turn into a lead. So we see user experience be completely neglected at times where it's like, hey, what do we actually expect? We expect this person to come to this page, read the entire article, scroll down to the bottom, skip the bottom part, which is just the author buyer, and then convert in this field or this box that has a field to subscribe to the newsletter. This is expecting a lot. Right. We see a lot of success just by distributing calls to action. Top, middle, bottom, for example, or across an article. Give them multiple ways to opt in, make sure that when they have finished reading this article, there's immediately a way to take the next step for them. Otherwise people just get lost. All those banners on top, on the side, at the bottom of an article, very often they are just ignored. People don't even read what's there. They just say, okay, this is some sort of ad or they want to trick me into something. However, if you have have a call to action very close to the place where you're actually providing value, which is inside this article, very often it's a no brainer for people and say, okay, I click on this, especially if this is related to what I'm reading. And I say, okay, if I figure this one out and I know the answer, this is the next step, let's go for it. And this is where it's important to actually have the tracking in place and say, okay, what is happening? Where do those people come from? What's the percentage of conversions I'm getting from reader into a lead and how can I tweak it?

I like that. And also I'll put in one more, more note. Check your website, on your phone, on mobile devices, because a lot of people are on there. I know it's been said over the years, but I think that's still a common thing. People are like, all right, checking everything on the browser, but you're not out the phone or seeing where the banner shows up or if something just doesn't look quite right. And I know Google's looking at that stuff too and there's some mobility checks you can find or use on Google to kind of find those things out too. So yeah, Garrett, this is great, man. So this is another masterclass and I'm stoked that we talked about the conversation conversion side of things because it's been, yeah, branding and then the fundamentals and, and of course we have some more episodes coming as well. Appreciate you so much, man. And with SEO leverage.com that's Gert's website, definitely go check it out. Like I mentioned, you have a podcast. You go deep on a whole variety of topics and, and just the resources you have in there and of course your team and yourself that, that help people every single day do this stuff and go deep on it. So anything that you want to say to that regard before we wrap?

No. Thank you so much, Joe. Instead of definitely always a pleasure to be here on this podcast. It feels like home already and we're just going to continue to discuss some topics that could provide value. Anybody having an idea for topic, I guess we can certainly talk about this here as well if they bring this to us. And then yeah, seoleverage.com or find me on LinkedIn. This is where I'm mostly active these days and we just connect.

Awesome. I appreciate you, Gert, and thank you all for listening. See you next time.

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Sa.