Michael Gerber - Systems Are Everything, Stupid

And so I said, bob, you got a problem. And the problem is really very simple. You don't have a selling system.

He said, what the hell's the selling system? I said, exactly, Bob.

That's your problem. And it's not only that you don't have one, it's you don't even know what one is.

And he said to me, well, can you create a selling system? I said, sure, Bob.

With obviously the confidence born out of extreme ignorance.

Sure.

And he said, well, why don't you do that?

And so he hired me to build a selling system for him.

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

What's up, everybody? You're listening to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast with your boys Matt Wolf and Joe Fear. Wiki wiki wiki. Yo.

Hi there. We're back.

Been here all along, Matt.

Well, I was. Wasn't talking to you.

Oh, oh, oh.

Why would I be telling you to welcome? Why would I be welcoming you back when you've been here?

Yeah, I live in your office. It's weird. Sleep under your desk.

That little cot right there.

Mm. Called a floor with my dog.

That's flatulence. Flatulence.

She's getting it all. She's becoming an old lady, all right. Give her a break. All right, so we, once again, we're.

Back with a legend.

We've had a lot of legends on lately.

We have more legends in the pipeline too.

We do, yeah. We can't tell folks what legends we are holding from them for now because.

What if they cancel on us? That'd be bad.

Yeah. Well, see, that's why we're not putting it out there yet. So let's keep that to ourselves. Yeah. All right, so we have. Yeah, definitely a legend. Stemming all the way back to your dad.

No, this was literally the catalyst that got me into business. So the book by this author, I don't know why we're hiding it. It's Michael Gerber. We're talking to Michael Gerber, the writer of the E. Myth.

That's right.

And the E. Myth was the first business book that I ever read that sort of started me down my entrepreneurial journey. So I told that to Michael and let him know, and then it kind of broke into a little bit of a story about my dad's company.

And he called him out, man.

Yeah, my dad got a little called out in that.

What's Rick gonna think? Is he gonna love it? Or is he gonna be like, I'm gonna go find my dad?

My dad is very open to feedback.

I know he is. I know. No, I thought it was super. I mean, because, yeah, e Myth. I definitely stumbled upon it later than you did, but I just thought there's a cool story about you and your dad and how Michael was involved. Michael didn't know at the time, but Michael did give that book to him in his own way. So, yeah, Michael, he doesn't do a lot of podcasts and rightly so. He doesn't need to. That was the very first thing he told or one of the first things he told us on a previous call. He's like, I don't need to do these things. I'm like, I don't blame you. Yeah, why wouldn't.

So we're pretty honored to have him on this show. When we were actually doing our research for this show, like, almost all the podcasts we found that he was on were like years ago. So, you know, he's doing a lot.

Of stuff now that's not as forefront, I guess. Yeah. Different stuff. And radical you is his new thing. Well, newish thing, but it's definitely an extension in a whole.

Very actionable, step by step process of what he's been teaching around systems forever, Michael. So, yeah, radical you. We have links and all that stuff in the show notes.

The program's 10 bucks a year.

For the first year.

For the first year.

Just first year. I don't know what it is after that, but it's an extended education process that is literally done by. And this is like his work of 84 years and he's still working on it every single day. He said he's busier than ever. So, yeah, Radical you. We don't have the URL.

Actually, the URL will be on the show notes page.

Yes. So go to the show notes or the notes, wherever you're going to dig into this thing and you'll get a nice special welcome that way. So, speaking of which, let's get the notes, huh?

Yeah, get the notes. Hustleandflowchart.com comp we took detailed notes on this episode. I'm using my inflections to let you know that they're detailed.

They are detailed, Detailed, detailed notes.

Right.

I'm emphasizing that the notes, the notes.

How detailed they are and how detailed they are. I'm going to emphasize the fact that you don't have to take the notes. No, nor did we. We didn't even take the notes. We have a fabulous person on our team named sue who took these notes for you. So you should get these fine, detailed notes that you didn't have to take@hustleandflowchart.com computer. And they're free. That's even better, right? Free for two weeks of this episode going live. So go fast. You can pause and go there right now@hustleandflowchart.com comp and you'll get those detailed free notes.

Yeah, well, you know Michael Gerber, he's a systems guy, right? So, yes, I do. I know he loves his systems. And one of the things we do a lot in our business is SEO. And Ahrefs is our favorite SEO tool that we use. And they happen to be a sponsor of this podcast. And one of the systems that you can do in Ahrefs that I really, really like is in a previous episode, I talked about how you can run these, like, audits, and that at the end of this audit, is going to essentially give you a checklist of, here's everything you need to fix for your SEO. Right. Well, what you can do with those audits is you can actually send and you can tell it to do it once a week and send you an email reminder once it's done it. So you can have literally a systematic SEO process where once a week, Ahrefs sends you an email saying, we just ran an audit on your site. Here's the things you need to fix. You either hand it off to a va. Michael Gerber would probably recommend you hand it off to a VA someone.

Yeah.

Either you or a VA can just go through the checklist and optimize your SEO. And you have a nice systematic way of keeping up with your SEO using Ahrefs.

Even better, just have the VA or someone in your team have that email address so it doesn't even go to you.

You could do that, too.

Don't even pass it off to anybody. Let the system pass it off to them. That's true. As long as you're getting a brief on how things are shaping up, which that thing would do. And that's what's really cool with Ahrefs. Yeah, it's like a system that you can, I think, even daily or weekly, but basically at least weekly, you know, have a snapshot.

I think it's weekly. Yeah.

Yeah. But, yeah, it's really cool. So, like, I was getting these emails for a while. Even though you focus primarily on that, I'm like, oh, it's good to just know, oh, cool, I'm showing up for these different keywords, or these are the blind spots that, you know, that popped up, something happened, or here's an opportunity. So it's really cool. Yeah.

So you can grab Ahrefs over@a hrefs.com. they've got a $7 trial where you get access for seven days. Check it out. So if you like it, you're probably gonna like it.

I think you will.

We've been using it for years now.

So let's do the audit. Audit's, like, the easiest way to start, and we talked about that before. And then set up these little reminders at the same time. Yeah. Seven bucks for seven days. So Ahrefs A H R E F S dot com.

All right, let's go dive in with Michael Gerber.

All right, Michael, we're live, and we're very excited to have you here. How you doing?

Well, I'm wonderful. How are you?

Doing amazing.

Doing great.

I know we share the same town in San Diego. San Diego county is at least. Unfortunately, we can't do this in person, circumstances around us. But.

Yeah, we've had a pleasure chatting with you the first time about a month ago, and I want to give a shout out to David Jennings from Systemology as well. He connected us, and I know you guys have done some stuff together as well, and he's wonderful.

Did you. Did you actually get a chance to speak to him on your podcast?

Oh, he did, yeah.

He's a neat, neat young guy.

No kidding. And I feel like he's really built upon a lot of your previous work and current work still with the E Myth and all the different revisited and versions of it. And kind of he just, like, went down a lot more tactical, you know, and all these little bits and pieces. So it's like a perfect blend, I feel like, between the two.

Yeah, he really gets down to the really tactical.

That's great.

Really tactical. He's a really, really, really splendid guy, in fact, through him. And he came to the Dreaming Room.

A couple of years ago, and, you know, he's in Australia, and he came to Southern California where we held a dream room.

And he was so moved by it, he came to me and my wife, Luz Delia, afterward and asked him he could do anything at all.

To give back what he got at the Dreaming Room. And we said, well, I have no idea what that might be. We're about to publish a new book, and the book is called beyond the E Myth, the Evolution of an Enterprise from a company of one to a company of 1,000. And he said, well, how are you going to promote that? I said, well, we haven't even thought about it. He said, I want to take Responsibility for launching your book.

Wow.

So he did. And in the process, he set up 37 podcasts.

You were busy.

Yeah. To announce the book. And So I met 37 different times on 37 podcasts, and the book immediately went to number one on Amazon.

Wow.

And so he just did this for us and with us. And then obviously we subsequently had a profound impact on his book systemology. And so you'll find me in his.

Book writing the forward to his book. Yeah. So relationship.

Very cool. No, that's. And I know you don't do a lot of podcasts as well, so. Yeah, we're honored to have you here as well.

Thank you.

Since you probably took some time off after the 37 or so, I hope.

Yeah, that was quite an experience. I don't do podcasts.

Yeah.

I want to give you a ton of credit because you've had a huge impact on my sort of entrepreneurial career. I think I told you this last time we chatted, but I don't have it on recording. So I'm going to say it again. But when I first sort of got into business, my parents, they owned a shutter company, a window covering shutter company. And that's where Joe and I actually started working together, was at that company. But when my dad, he kind of had these plans for me to sort of take over the business and run it so he can retire and sort of back himself out of it. And the very first thing he did when he presented that to me was he handed me a copy of the E. Myth and he said, go read this book. This is the first book you need to read when it comes to business. So that was the first book that I ever read in the sort of world of business. And I think I told you on the call it was that book. And then it was the goal by. I don't know how to pronounce his last or his name, but. Goldrat.

Right.

His first name. I always mess up.

But anyway, the E. Myth was the very first book that set me down my own entrepreneurial journey. So so much appreciation for you and having that book into the world.

Well, thank you. What happened to that shutter company?

Well, that Shutter company. In 2008, when all of the financial crisis hit, it got some hard times. My parents actually sold the business. The new owner, it actually filed bankruptcy, went under, and then my dad restarted the company a few years later. So he's back doing to the same thing he was then. There was just a little gap there after the financial issues that happened around 2008.

Do a quick shout out to Rick.

Then when you said earlier the shutter company, I was going to say a.

Perfect turnkey opportunity, if there's any.

A shutter company is like the gold standard for turnkey operations.

In short, nobody should have gone out of business. In short, had your dad done the E Myth, rather than just handing it.

To you.

Something significant would have occurred. And you can tell him I said that.

Actually, Michael, even better. Can you say, hey, Rick, he's probably.

Listening to this episode.

Yeah.

And you can have him call me.

I'll tell him what I meant when I said that.

Yeah, that's very cool.

So I'm curious right now. How would you define it as the gold standard? What would make something like that the gold standard for success there?

Well, it's a commodity.

In short, it's obviously a commodity. It's like shutters, for God's sakes. And this is how you do them. And so it's a commodity. It's a systemic reality. Step one, step two, step three, step four, step five. You can teach any dummy to do it.

And because you can teach any dummy to do it, that means you can actually excel with, in quotes, dummies, doing it just like a hamburger stand.

My point is that your dad, had he truly absorbed the essence of E.

Myth when I shared the book with him, he would have seen that he's in the perfect business.

And it's simply the problem that happens all the time. And this happens millions of times. People read my book. They just don't do my book.

My book is an instruction manual.

It says, step one, step two, step three, step four. That means do step one, do step two.

You follow me?

Yeah.

Think about step one, and then you pretty immediately understand why I said. Said that. So and so went on a trip for a number of years when he really got it.

Yeah, that's. I mean, you're right. Yeah. It can't stay between the years. You know, it's a great concept to internalize. Yes. But that's where people stop, unfortunately.

A lot of times we think about too much, and we just think about too much, and we got to eradicate all of that and really get to the heart of it, which is a blank piece of paper and beginner's mind. You got to literally forget about what you think, you know, and simply follow the system. The system is sacrosanct.

So enough said about that.

That was a great way to start. I love it. And your dad, I hope, will appreciate it because he has that opportunity. He's a shutter company again, so let's do this.

Start it over.

Mid-60s. I think he's about 64. He's probably gonna kick my butt for if I'm wrong.

Tell your dad Gerber said it's time. Stupid.

Tell your dad Gerber said that. I will even just play the podcast.

To him if you don't want me embarrassed.

This is great. You better share this with your parts. Absolutely. All right. Well, Michael, I mean, I know we jumped into it and I love it, and I don't think you need an introduction, but, hey, let's. For the handful of folks listening that. Who's this Michael Gerber guy? Michael E. Gerber guy. And E. Myth. I don't know what that. But yeah, give us, I guess, a quick synopsis of taking us back a little bit in time. And then I know now you're doing some amazing things with your new venture. Radical you. And a lot of mission focused, actionable items for people there.

Well, good. Well, people obviously think people are born entrepreneurs. And the fact of the matter is, they're not.

The fact of the matter is I wasn't interested in business at all. I was a saxophone player. I was a carpenter.

I've done this and done that. Encyclopedia salesman. I mean, just about any stupid thing anybody would ever want to do, and I've done them stupidly as well as incredibly well. But at the heart of every single one of them was a system. Now, I didn't think about it when I was there learning how to play the saxophone starting at the age of.

11.

But it was a system. This is how you do it. This is how you do it. This is how you do it. This is how you do it. This is how you sell an encyclopedia. This is how you sell an encyclopedia. Step one, step two, step three, step four. First, you memorize the script. Memorize the script. Yes, memorize the script. Now go home and memorize the first three pages of the script and then come back and say it to me without the script. And then I came back and I said it to him without the script. And he said, absolutely terrific. Get it 100% right. But now say it like this. And then he gave me the inflection within the script, just as you can hear now, the inflection within the script. So effectively, the inflection within the script brings the script alive.

Just like the music. So when my saxophone teacher gave me music to memorize, I would memorize the music. And then you would say, now listen to that.

Listen to that.

Listen to Charlie Parker do that. Listen to Stan Getz. Do that. Listen to, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You followed me.

Oh, yeah.

And as you begin to listen to Charlie Parker do that, and Stan gets to do that, it wasn't so that I would become Charlie Parker and become Stan Getz. It would be so I could understand and internalize the inflection.

That makes music music.

So it's not simply the raw notes, just like I'd say it's not simply the raw notes of your shutter business.

It's the inflection of it.

And therein lies the personality within it, and therein lies the magic of it. And so when you think of a company like Apple and you think of a guy like Steve Jobs, you think of the personality of it.

Because Apple wasn't in the same computer business everybody else was in. It was in its own computer business in a way that nobody else was in it.

That was the inflection in quotes of it. So when I speak to a small business owner, I'm speaking to a small business owner in exactly that way. It's the same the system, stupid. It's the system. It's the system, stupid. But listen to Sonny Rollins play that and you'll hear something completely different when he plays that than when Stan Getz plays that. It's the inflection within it that lets you know you're listening to Sonny Rollins. That lets you know you're listening to Stan Getz. That lets you know you're looking at Apple, you're not looking at Dell Computer. They live in different worlds, completely different worlds. And so that's what the entrepreneurship.

Process is all about. So understand. I learned how to do this, I.

Learned how to do that, I learned.

How to do this, I learned how to do that. And then on my way back from Southern California to Northern California, I stopped over to visit my sister and my brother in law. My brother in law's name was and is Ace.

And Ace owned a small advertising agency in Silicon Valley.

And he got in there because of my interest.

Now, you gotta understand, I didn't know anything about advertising and I didn't know anything about business. But my influence, you might say, was the inflection of what I said to Ace as we were having one of.

Our.

Continuous conversations, philosophically, spiritually, emotionally, etcetera, and so forth and so on and so forth. And Ace always thought I was a genius.

So Ace listened to me when he listened to me and he started his ad agency. And when I was stopping by on my way to Northern California to visit with Ace and Marsha my sister.

Ace asked me if I'd come visit one of his clients with him. And his client, Bob, we'll call him, was having difficulty converting the leads Ace's ad agency was creating for his business into sales.

And so I've said this a thousand times, a million times, 100 gazillion times, I said, ace, I don't know anything about business.

What in the world am I going to tell Bob?

And he said, mike, you know more than you think you do. Just do me a favor and come visit with Bob. Let's see what happens. So understand that let's see what happened is an absolutely magical expression.

Because effectively, my entire life has been built around let's see what happens.

Starting with, as I've called it, a blank piece of paper and beginner's mind. So when they said, let's see what.

Happens, and sure, let's see what happens.

Who knows what's going to happen?

And so I went to visit Bob with Ace, and Ace said to Bob and to me, he said, look, guys, I'm going to take off for an.

Hour.

Get to know each other. Let's see what happens.

And so we did. Bob said to me, after Ace leaves, michael, what do you know about my business? Nothing, Bob.

Well, if you don't know anything about my business. Looking at his watch, looking at his.

Watch, what do you know about our product? And I said, less than that, Bob.

Now Bob's thinking, where is Ace? Where is Ace? Where is Ace? I got an hour to kill with chump who doesn't know anything about my business or my product. How in the hell is he going to help me? And he asked me that, how the hell are you going to help me? And I said, I haven't a clue.

About, but Ace thinks I can. You like Ace? I like Ace. And he's going to be back in an hour.

Let's find out. Yeah, in short, let's see what happens.

So I started that conversation, in a way, I started this conversation in that conversation.

Realizing I didn't know anything about business, but believing, because he owned one, he did.

And that was the immediate major breakthrough that occurred in that meeting. Not only did I realize that I did know something about business, but that he didn't.

In fact, what I knew was selling is a system.

I knew that I'd learned that, but I never thought about that other than practicing that.

And so as I'm listening to Bob answering my questions, all of his answers being anecdotal, I realized he didn't know anything about his Business. He didn't know, in fact that selling is a system. As a result, he hired sales engineers, meaning engineers. They had to know about the product, they had to know about technology and sales experience, meaning they had to have sales experience. So sales engineers, so many, so many, so many companies hire sales engineers thinking that those two skills are absolutely critical if they're going to be successful at selling and they're not.

And so I said, Bob, you got a problem. And the problem is really very simple. You don't have a selling system.

He said, what the hell's the selling system? I said, exactly, Bob.

That'S your problem. And it's not only that you don't have one, it's you don't even know what one is.

And he said to me, well, can you create a selling system? I said, sure, Bob.

With obviously the confidence porn out of extreme ignorance.

Sure.

And he said, well, why don't you do that?

And so he hired me to build a selling system for him. Now I understand.

Ace picks me up.

Ace said, what happened? I said, bob just hired me. He said, hired to do what? I said, to create a selling system.

He says, what's that?

Good question.

I said, ace, obviously you got the problem. Bob's got.

Should hire me. It's so absolutely obvious what a selling system is. It's the methodology through which you conduct a sale.

And to the degree there's no methodology through which you conduct a sale, forget it. It's going to be an accident waiting to happen continuously. And the minute you have six guys in fact in the same company.

Doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it without a selling system, it's sheer chaos. So that's Bob's problem. Now I got to believe that if it's Bob's problem, it's probably a problem in just about every one of your clients companies. And if that's a problem in every single one of your client companies, you have an incredible business opportunity. Because it's more than likely true that very few advertising agencies understand what a selling system is.

They think it's the quality of the lead when it's not.

It's the quality of the system through which you convert that lead into an active paying customer.

Blah, blah, blah, blah.

That's how I started.

Yeah, how cool is that? And I believe you didn't turn into an entrepreneur, quote unquote entrepreneur until about 40 years old, right?

About 40.

Wow. Yeah.

Meaning.

Let'S see what happens. The nature of my life has been let's see what happens. Here I am now with Bob In a completely new industry. Now, I'm not selling encyclopedias at night. I'm actually working during the day. Absolutely astonishing. So here I am learning completely new business, a completely new field. And what I discovered is not only didn't Bob have a selling system, he didn't have a management system, he didn't have a marketing system, he didn't have a financial system. He didn't have a system for doing all of the essential things that had to be done in his company.

And it was then, as that arose for me when I walked into McDonald's.

Now, understand, I walked into McDonald's between the ad agency and another client.

And I suddenly had this epiphany. Now, I'd been in McDonald's before. I'd never seen McDonald's before the way I just saw it. Suddenly I saw the system incarnate.

The operating system. I didn't even buy a hamburger. Then I just realized, I can do that.

That sudden realization, that sudden epiphany. I can do that. I can create a system for doing what I'm doing.

And if I can create a system for doing what I'm doing, I can transform the state of small business with Worldwide. Because every single small business I walked into was lacking that functional awareness, that functional realization that it's system stupid, it's the system stupid, it's the system stupid. It's not great people. Yes, great people is wonderful. But if you have great people and you're lacking a system underlying the operation of your company, you're going to fail. You're going to fail. You're going to fail, you're going to fail, you're going to fail. And I say to folks today, during this pandemic.

We'Re going through, and you understand the extreme ferocity of this pandemic we're going through.

But as I'm speaking to people about this very way we're speaking about it.

Now.

Last year.

We'Re in 2020. So that was 2019.

In 2019, there are about 550,000 businesses.

Failing.

500 in the United States. Think about that.

This is before the pandemic.

That's wild.

Yeah. Before the freaking pandemic means we must have had another pandemic that was behind.

Responsible for business failures.

Such a great, great abundance.

Every year.

Because the year before that and the.

Year before that and the year before that and the year, you know, we talk about 2008, the bad times 2008, you just talked about it, shit hits the fan, 2008, et cetera and so forth. Understand, it was 2007, 2006, 2005, 4, 3, 2, 1. Yeah, I know this was a bad one. However, if you take a look overall, you'll see, in fact, that we were failing big time even before 2008.

So why is it nobody sits in absolute astonishment at how badly we're operating our companies?

550,000 business failures. Are you kidding me?

It's like the silent killer of businesses.

Please think about it.

So we've been suffering from, in quotes, that pandemic, I'll call it, for generations.

That's what I saw. That's what suddenly came to me. And I want you to understand that when I finally left Ace, Ace brought in a guy to replace me. I realized that I couldn't do this anymore with Ace because Ace wasn't doing it himself.

I had to get out of there. So he brought a guy in. Guy's name was Tom Travisano. And Tom was really brilliant guy. And I'm getting ready to leave. And Tom said, so, Michael, where are you going? I said, I'm going to start my company, do this. He said, I want to go with you.

So he said, tom, but Ace needs you. I don't care, Michael, because it's obvious to me you're leaving because it ain't going to happen the way it needs to happen here.

So I want to go with you. So we named the company the Michael Thomas corporation, and we called it a business development firm. And we had a dream, a vision, a purpose, and a mission.

And Tom and I sat there until we could articulate our dream, our vision, our purpose and our mission to the degree we could share it with every single person who would speak to us about it. Our dream at the Michael Thomas corporation was to transform the state of small business worldwide. Our vision was to invent the McDonald's of small business consulting services.

Our purpose was to invent a new world.

For prospective small business owners to the degree that every single one of them could be as successful as a McDonald's franchisee or even beyond that, as McDonald's itself.

And finally, our mission was to invent.

The business development system that was crucial for our dream, our vision, and our.

Purpose to be realized.

So that's what I've been doing since 1977.

So I know this is jumping ahead, but I'm looking at my notes. I'm like, huh? Well, that sounds like the same exact manifesto that you have for radical you. I wonder how that connects.

Well, it is radical. Radical you. But it was e myth before us.

Sure.

Yeah, it was the Michael Thomas Corporation. Before that it was Gerber Business Development Corporation. It was the E. Myth Academy. It was, it was, it was. It is. It is. It is. It's the core operating mindset underlying everything I've done all these years.

Wow.

So effectively understand there's nothing new under the sun. And the true tragedy is that with all of this stuff being created worldwide, all of the.

Internet based services being created worldwide, all the stuff being created still here today.

It'S fundamentally misunderstood.

And that fundamental misunderstanding is costing us.

And I say us. I mean you and me, it's costing America, it's costing the world.

Everything.

Because if one were to fully engage in what I've just shared with you.

I mean, fully.

Forget about everything you might believe in, forget about everything you.

Believe you know how to do.

If every single human being on the planet understands that we're born in the image of God, which means we're born to create, which means we're born to create a world fit for God, then they could begin to understand the secret underlying all this is no longer a secret. In fact. In fact, it hasn't been a secret since 1977. Indeed, it wasn't a secret even then because Ray Kroc knew it. If Ray Kroc knew it at McDonald's, then what the hell, Everybody could see it. All one has to do is to look at McDonald's and say, do that.

Now.

Understand what everybody will say to you in response to that. Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, but that's the hamburger business. Yeah, but our business is different than that. Yeah, but our business is sophisticated. Yeah, but, yeah, but. And all the yeah, buts on the planet is what created 550,000 failures.

In 2019.

Yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but. So we're talking to folks right now. That's what I believe happens on a podcast.

I think this will get to others. Yeah, not just us.

We're talking to folks. Right? And I'm telling everybody the secret.

And the secret resides in the E. Myth revisited. Why most small businesses don't work and what to do about it. Chapter one, chapter two, chapter three, chapter four, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Et cetera, et cetera.

The secret, the secret, the secret. It ain't no secret.

It's been available to every single human.

Being on the planet.

It's now in 30 some odd languages. That book, plus all the 30 some odd books that have followed on its heels.

The E. Myth. Chiropractor.

The e. Myth. H Vac contractor, the E Myth and on and on and on and on again and again and again and again and again and again. And yet this year in the pandemic, I'll guarantee you there'll be more than 550,000 failures, because now everybody has a reason.

It's the virus.

Yeah. It's this outside influence. It's not nothing that I can control.

Virus. It's the virus. It's the virus, you know, and just stupid, stupid, stupid. Yes, it's the virus, but so what?

The true virus is what every single one of us have had since the day we're born.

Get with it.

And as you begin to hear that, then you say, well, how would I do that? It's in the freaking book.

There were steps involved.

Yes, it's in.

Rick didn't take those steps. No, I'm just kidding.

Step one, do it. Step two, do it. Do it right. Do it right. Do it right. Do it right. Practice the script. Practice it. Get the inflection of the script and so forth and so forth and so forth. And as you do that, everybody, I swear to God, can become successful as an entrepreneur.

Do you think it takes that, beginner's mind? Like, folks just don't have that blank slate. They just kind of jump into doing, doing, doing, doing.

Oh, yeah, it does take that. Beginner's mind. That's why I say blank paper and beginner's mind. Beginner's mind is everything and effectively when I said so. And then let's see what happens. Let's see what happens when I do this.

So understand not, let's see what happens before I do this. Let's see what happens when I do this. Now, I've had enough experience and we've demonstrated it sufficiently to show that there are literally millions of small companies following the E Myth model.

Now, unfortunately, they read it, but they don't do it. So they skip to step three without doing step two, and they skip step two without doing step one, and they skip it because it's Ashid. And.

I said, I don't need that. You understand? We don't need that.

Yeah.

And of course, who's to say you don't need that? Of course you need that. And of course you learn to play the saxophone. This is how you learn to play the saxophone. You need to read stupid. And this is how you get a read stupid. Now, I add stupid only because it makes an emphasis for everybody to understand we are stupid. I mean, we just are.

And it's not necessarily a bad thing. It Goes back.

It's just the state of our being.

Sure, I attest to that.

Before the guy taught me how to read the script, before the guy told me how to say the script, and before the guy told me what the importance of the script was before all that happened, you understand, I didn't know anything about that.

Yeah.

Here's a guy who'd mastered the script.

And so while I'm not going to learn something else from him.

I'm there to learn what he's mastered.

Period. I'm here to learn what he's mastered. So when anybody comes to me and says, I want to say, wonderful.

This is a very clear process.

A process is a system. Over time, there's a very clear process for pursuing that. And what it takes is.

A will to learn.

And a way to do it.

So you, as the student, bring the will, and I, as the teacher, bring the way.

And if you use that as the measure by which you determine who you're in fact working with.

Does this guy have a way?

Has that way produced positive results consistently?

If yes, and if I want to produce positive results consistently.

Then I know.

What I got to bring to it. I got to bring the will to become fervent student.

And if I bring that and she brings this together, we'll create that.

And then we'll see what happens.

Because something's going to happen, and I.

Can'T anticipate what that is until I've developed the way to do that, because now I'm a completely new person.

So I'm saying to the folks who are listening to us, from a blank piece of paper to beginner's mind, from a company of 1 to a company of 1000, the evolution of an enterprise.

As you go from a company of one and you begin to learn the way, practice the way, apply the way, improve the way you use the way, something magical occurs and you have no idea what that's going to feel like.

None.

You understand?

None. It's a blank slate right in there.

You aren't there.

And when you get there, you suddenly have something you never knew existed before.

That's the secret underlying everything we do.

The other part of that secret is nobody wants to do it.

That's what my question was going to go to, is where are the bottlenecks here? And I feel like the will, maybe people might say they have the will, but when they actually get into motion of learning, maybe the theory and the foundational elements, as you kind of mentioned earlier, though, maybe skip the first couple steps. So where do you see the breakdown and how do you suggest folks to prevent themselves from breaking down throughout this process?

You understand?

You've heard the expression shit happens.

You think about Hell week and the US Navy Seals.

So the guys who qualify to even.

Start it have already been through hell Week. Hell week. Hell week of their own sort, their own training, whatever that might be to qualify. To qualify to even begin the process to become a U.S. navy Seal.

But I think the numbers are roughly 80% of those drop out.

Right.

20% make it.

So in other words, you don't know what that will.

Means and.

Sounds like feels like. So you've been there.

And then, as I said, shit happens.

Yeah.

And you come face to face with the reality of who I really am and who I'm not. Who I really am and who I'm not. Not what it really is and what it's not. Who I am and what I'm not. You should understand it pre existed before I ever started the process.

But I never experienced a process like that.

So when I give myself up to that process, I'm giving myself up with ignorance about that process.

Only to find myself in the process.

Suddenly confounded by the part of myself that is not for me.

And in one absolutely clear moment, I quit.

He quits.

That part of me that ain't going to have any more of this. I mean, it's just like that.

And you live with that failure. If you're even capable of realizing it's.

A failure for the rest of your.

Life.

Hear me, for the rest of your life.

What we do, unfortunately is we then justify it.

We find all the reasons in the world why it wasn't a failure at all. It was just a stupid thing to do.

Who wants to be a Navy seal?

The guy says to understand. I don't know what possessed me. The guy says it has nothing to do with. I just couldn't do it anymore. I have no idea what possessed me, honey. I don't know what possessed me. Why in the world I even thought. But I finally woke up.

It's like I finally woke up and smelled the roses.

Yeah.

Out of here, right?

Rang the bell. Yeah.

Yeah. And so we're with people who wake.

Up all the time.

Yeah. And I guess it goes back to.

The yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but yes, but yes. It just goes on and on and on and on. You understand it. And it's a tragedy.

Yeah, yeah. It's a self discovery. It seems like going through the process and especially I know in radical you it's an extended process. But if you start with the will and kind of this blank slate, the beginner's mind. I mean, really, you're shaping entrepreneurs with a very tactical approach now, even more so than before through this training here. And I can see where you're kind of discovering these things in yourself throughout that process, if you're starting with that blank slate, but without that.

And you have to understand Also, the Navy SEALs aren't in the business of changing people.

True.

They're in the business of creating Navy seals.

So they don't give a shit whether Murray got cold feet. They're not in the personal growth business.

You understand?

Sure.

Yeah.

They're in the risk and reward business. They're in the business of killing the bad guys.

Yeah. Mission. Mission based.

Let's kill these guys first.

So we.

Know who's with me when I'm in the field.

Now, if that were changed.

I don't know whether it would make a difference, but if that were changed, if there suddenly was a, in quotes, US Navy SEALs system for transforming the state of.

Persistency, consistency, et cetera and so forth among all people.

That would be something completely different.

Mm.

And there are people who say they do that, like Tony Robbins or. I mean, you know, there's a business.

Oh, yeah.

Doing that, but there's no meaning behind it.

You understand? There's no meaning behind. There's a meaning behind becoming a US Navy seal.

Is that. Does it go back to the identity factor? Like that's the true meaning?

Yeah.

I mean, when I say there's no meaning behind it, it's a business.

It's not even a calling.

It's a business that we're really good at. Now, when I say we're really good at it, we're really good at making money doing it.

Whether we're really good at actually transforming the state of humankind worldwide or not.

We'Re really good at selling it.

And so we are also good in convincing people that when it didn't work, it's their fault.

So understand, we got all the things going for us in that business. If it didn't work, it's because you never did it.

Right.

Yeah.

What can I tell you?

It's interesting. Yeah. Because you could apply this all over the place, you know, in any.

You can find it in our business. I can say the same thing.

If you don't do the emit.

Well.

Ain'T my fault.

Yeah.

Yeah, go ahead.

Did you have something along those same lines?

No. Go for it.

Yeah. So I wanted to talk about Radical youl. How does the new program Radical youl, How does that sort of evolve what was being taught in the E Myth? Because I know it's a lot of crossover with the E Myth, but then there's some sort of new additions, and it's sort of evolved beyond what you were teaching back then. So. Can we talk about that for a minute?

Well, of course.

We're always looking for a way to do it better.

So the entire process, I call it the five essential skills.

In E myth, the first of which is concentration. The second of which is discrimination. The third of which is organization. The fourth of which is innovation, and the fifth of which is communication. Concentration means the ability to be here now.

Discrimination, the ability to apply my focus on one thing, to choose.

Organization. My ability to turn chaos into order.

Innovation to create a better way. Not the best way, because none of us are capable of producing the best way. God is. But nobody's figured it out yet.

And of course, once we were to figure it out, we would be God. So we ain't going to figure it out.

Figure that one out.

Good luck. Yeah.

And then communication. And that's our ability to communicate, share.

What I've just learned with other people.

So we were asking the question, so why Radical you? So Radical you was created what I call the Eightfold Path.

To grow an entrepreneur.

From a technician.

To grow a company of one to a company of.

1000.

And to follow the path that's critical to make that happen.

So radical you takes five years.

Now.

Right out of the box, we're already in trouble because nobody can even imagine.

Any five years doing anything.

We're in a pandemic. Michael, how are you?

Nobody can even imagine five years.

Sure.

But that aside, it takes five years, and it's the Eightfold path. And the first four steps of Betty are the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader. Those are the four components of an entrepreneur. An entrepreneur is a dreamer, an entrepreneur is a thinker, an entrepreneur is a storyteller, and an entrepreneur is a leader.

So in year one of Radical you, we go through those four steps. I have a dream. I have a vision. I have a purpose. I have a mission. That's the platform upon which every company must be built. It's a platform of entrepreneurship. So our job in Radical youl is to, in quotes, awaken the entrepreneur within.

Step by step, by step, by step. First the dreamer, then the thinker, then. Then the storyteller, then the leader. So when they get done with year one, they have a dream, they're passionate about. They have a vision, they have a purpose, and they have a mission.

In year two, we now go to work on the company.

And the first step of that, we call the job.

And the job is the client fulfillment system.

So we have a dream, we have a vision. We have a purpose, we have a mission. In my case, the dream to transform the state of small business worldwide. The vision to invent the McDonald's of small business consulting services. The purpose that every small business owner can effectively and successfully create a company as successful as McDonald's. And finally, a mission. The business development system.

So year two is the client fulfillment system.

We go to work on the client fulfillment system week after week after week after week, all to make our dream, our vision, our purpose, and our mission possible.

You follow me?

Yep.

And it's 52 weeks, just like year one is 52 weeks. Every week is a.

A.

Seminar.

Which teaches a specific subject that's critical to in year one. The dream, the vision, the purpose, the mission, and then homework to practice.

And our student does that understand? Our student today is only paying $10 for the first year.

It's pretty cool. That's some amazing.

Yeah.

Now you understand they're only paying $10 for the first freaking year.

And he still can't stay.

With it.

Because. Yes, but yes, but, yes, but, yes, but. Yes, but yes, but. She just goes on and on and on and on. It goes on and on and on and on. There is no will. Yeah.

There is a way.

We've demonstrated the power of that way over now 45 years.

It's the same thing. Becoming a US Navy Seal means you got to go through hell week and you got to come out the other end.

Right?

Period. There's no choice.

You got to do it.

Because without a dream, without a vision, without a purpose, without a mission, nothing's going to happen.

So that first foundational year for $10 is like. I mean, that is your foundation for pretty much any venture guaranteed.

So then what do we have to do? Well, we have to learn how to inspire the students sufficiently.

To stay with it.

Now, obviously, there's no money in it.

In other words, we already spent the 10 bucks.

I'm pretty sure you did that.

A long time ago. There's no money in it.

The only thing left then is to figure it out.

So we're working on radical you while we're working in radical you. We're working on radical you while we're working in radical you to find a way to find a way to find a way to Find a way to find a way based upon this presumption that every single person on the planet can indeed develop the will required to fulfill a result, achieve an accountability to the degree sufficient or necessary in order to grow a company of one, to become a company of 1,000, to build an economic reality that can support them, but not only that, but can transform their experience of life in such a way that they can have a profound impact on everyone they meet. So I'm saying that we have made the commitment to that aspiration.

Non stop.

So here I am at 80. I'm 84. Here I am at 84.

Yeah.

Committed to a realization that has been proven fallible.

Again and again and again and again.

Fallible, fallible, fallible, fallible.

Because everybody else is proving the opposite.

Everybody else is proving that they ain't got the will saying going to pursue the way they can't muster things, the necessary energy to stay with it sufficiently.

Long enough to actually begin to experience the transformation.

And that's the human condition.

But what I'm saying, even as I say that that's the problem we're here.

To solve the human condition.

Condition.

That'S the problem we're here to solve.

And so I'm 84. I'll be going on, God willing. 85, 86, 87, 88, 89. In the process of working on radical you.

To pursue the impossible.

In order to demonstrate what's truly possible if one puts his or her mind to it.

And we're learning how are we all. We're always learning how we're learning how.

We'Re learning how or we're learning how now.

Yeah, well that's probably the more important thing to learn. A couple of thoughts because I know, you know one of the big missions here, maybe not mission but I know a big of part purpose of radical use to grow from really a business of nothing or one to one that could be sold even within five years or by five years.

Let's see here. For existing entrepreneurs, how would you recommend them to approach radical you and just this whole new learning process with the beginner's mind?

Well, very, very simply read the E. Myth Revisited.

And then read Awakening the Entrepreneur Within.

So here's the E. Myth Revisited. Read the freaking book.

And then read Awakening the Entrepreneur within and then read beyond the E Myth.

The evolution of an enterprise from a company of one to a company of 1,000.

And any.

Other book that we've written.

And pained our way through to get it while.

You join us in radical you and while we beat the living out of you.

Well, you told us it's not going to be easy. Like when you. When you first. When we chatted with you, we're like, that's not a great selling point.

Of course not. No, it's not even think it might be easy. Just. You're glossing over life.

Yep.

To such an immense degree. It's like you don't. You don't even deserve to think that nothing's easy.

And anybody who tells you it is.

Is lying to you.

Nothing's easy. Learning how to play the saxophone isn't easy. Learning how to roof a house isn't easy. Learning how to do anything.

Well isn't easy. It calls for will and it calls for a way.

Period. Each of which are absolutely essential if you're ever going to come out whole on the other end. And then when you have in fact, applied your will and mastered the way. Mastered the way. Mastered the way, you can then come.

Away with something you didn't have before.

And those things are innumerable.

But as that happens, you can then share them.

With others who are also on the path.

And you can say, working my ass off.

In times when I swear I would.

Never do this again.

And yet I managed to do it again.

I can.

Only say to you, it is worth the wait.

That's all I can say. It was worth the wait.

And for the rest of my life, I'll be doing much the same.

So, as I just said to you guys, I'm working on Radical you right now. Think for all these years.

You had it figured it out. Well, we have, but not to the degree we intend to.

We intend to transform the state of small business worldwide, which requires that we transform the state of entrepreneurship worldwide, which, when we accomplish that, will transform the state of economic development worldwide. And that's a worthy.

Thing to seek.

And a perfect time, too, right now. I mean, and I know you're building this prior to a pandemic and big, crazy worldwide crisis, but hey, might as well hunker down, slow down and start this right now. Start rebooting yourself. Yeah, I just looked at the clock and I looked at. We're over the hour right now. This went by way too quick.

All right, so Matt actually ended off for us.

Yeah. So where can people go and learn more about radical you and get involved and start down this journey?

I'll tell you what, you're gonna run this and play it, and I'm going.

To give you a new address.

I like your style.

And I'm going to introduce you to somebody you really want to meet. And he's a managing partner of ours.

An absolutely brilliant guy.

His name is Mark.

And Mark Harris. I'm going to email Mark's address to you, and then the three of you can talk.

And we'll make something really important happen.

Awesome. Okay, thank you. Yeah. So we'll make sure the listeners. All of you all listening. We'll link everything up. We'll make it very obvious for you to find your way in there to radical you. Michael, I'm curious. So I just wanted to end it. Yeah, we always end it with books and asking what's been the most impactful for you. But I would. I'm just kind of curious. Where have you felt, like, the best thing you've mastered throughout the 84 years that you've. I mean, you're mastering everything, but, like, is there something specific that just pops out that you can kind of provide us here?

Without a doubt, the one thing I've.

Mastered is writing and telling a story.

So behind everything that we've spoken about, at the heart of everything we've spoken about is the story about everything we've spoken about. And that art.

That skill, that knowledge, that understanding, and that ability.

Is at.

The heart of entrepreneurship.

It's the storytelling.

I have a dream, but I can't tell you what it's all about. I have a vision. I don't know how to express it. I have a purpose, but I'm not sure it's exactly the one I want. And I have a mission which probably will keep me busy, but may not actually do it for me.

What can I tell you?

Yeah.

Learn how to tell that story.

Yeah.

A story. Because the story underlies everything.

I love it.

Great, great. Storytellers change the world.

So there's. Therein's the magic. It's the story.

It's the story.

And if you read the Myth Revisited, and I'm telling everybody, read it, read it. Because even though I read, wrote it, it's like, when I read it, it's like I never wrote it.

Wow. Really?

Yeah.

No, absolutely.

Interesting.

It's like, holy shit, who was that.

Just channeled from somewhere, huh?

It's always astonishing to me, truly is. Always astonishing. And I don't read my own books, but it's always astonishing to me because it happens.

And so it. The true gift of all this is that provided the will, provided the way.

It happens.

And to get that experience.

To have that experience, is what living life is all about.

Perfect way to end this. As your alarms are probably buzzing, get you out of here. You got it, Michael. Thank you very much. Of course we will. I can't wait to meet you one day when this craziness ends. Thank you very much.

You guys are great. You're obviously having fun.

We are.

Which is really important.

Don't forget your father.

Yep.

I'm gonna send this episode to him as soon as it's ready.

He's gonna.

He'll love it.

He'll remember this for a long time.

You got it. Okay, guys, thank you.

Thanks, Michael.

Bye.

Bye.

Thanks so much for tuning into that episode. I hope you dug it. I know Joe and I dug it. I actually kicked Joe out of the room. He's not here right now. Because I wanted to tell you about a tool that I really, really dig. We use it in our business. We recommend it all the time. It's called Easy Webinar, and it's a tool that lets you do live webinars, automated webinars, hybrid webinars, and pretty much any other kind of webinar if you. There are other kinds of webinars. But anyway, this tool is kind of like your all in one, do it all tool. For anything webinar related. It's Easy Webinar. It's put out by a dude named Casey Zman. He's been on the podcast. If you haven't listened to that episode, it's a killer episode. He's a really smart dude, but his software is amazing. It does everything. It's, you know, the title tells you exactly what it does. It's an easy webinar platform. And we use this in our business to run automated webinars all the time. We don't do a lot of live webinars these days. We like to do the kind of automated webinars where somebody can register and then it, you know, they can either watch it like 15 minutes later or they can watch it the next day, but it's just kind of always running. And it's a system that helps us make autopilot sales off of our webinars. Super cool tool. If you haven't tried it yet, you know, it's. It's. It's an amazing tool. And Casey is actually hooking you up. He said for listeners of Hustle and Flowchart, I can't believe he's doing this, but he said for listeners of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast, he's giving 25% off of the membership to use Easy Webinar. It's already super, super inexpensive for what it does. And all the cool features it has, but he's hooking you up with 25% off because you're a listener of Hustle and flowchart. Go to easywebinar.com hustle. That's where you can get that 25% off discount. That's easywebinar.com hustole. It's a awesome tool. You're gonna dig it, so just go grab it. Check it out. Easywebinar.com hustle See? No, not see ya. You'll hear me in the next show. I don't know. I don't know how to close these things. Go get Easy Webinar. Talk to you later. Thanks everybody, for listening to this episode of the Hustle and Flowchart podcast for taking the time to listen. We want to give you something a little bit special. Every single episode that we do, we actually have somebody on our team take notes. We basically have a Cliffs Notes version of every episode where you can go and find all of the tips and tactics that they laid out, all of the resources that they laid out, all the good stuff from this episode. We actually have a nice simple notes version that you can find on our website. So go to evergreen prophets.com, find this episode that you just listened to, and give us your email address and we'll send you the notes. Thanks for listening.

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