Mike Matuz — How To Find Antiquated Industries And Disrupt Them

This is an intro, intro, intro, intro.

Hustle and Flowchart with your boy, my boy, Matt Wolf. Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome back to the Hustle and Flowchart podcast. My name is Matt Wolf. I'm here with my co host, Joe Fear. You forgot my name. Today we're talking to a good buddy of ours. Actually very recently became a good buddy of ours. We met him at a networking event and got to talking and had a lot of shared passions on things like angel investing and how to disrupt businesses and buying and selling businesses and fitness world. And just so much in common with the guy that we, you know, he became, it was like, did we just become best friends?

Yup.

Kind of thing. And it was, we brought him on the show and had a great conversation about all of those topics, all of the angel investing disruptors. And one of the things that you'll notice is towards the end of the episode, we get super, super, super passionate about the concept of how do we disrupt invest industries that are just getting antiquated. And the, the, the conversation just freaking took off from there and it just flew and we just, we had an amazing discussion. Our guest today is, his name is Mike Matus. He's out of Long beach and he's doing some really, really amazing stuff. And, and we can't wait to share this, this knowledge and this info with you.

For sure. You're going to learn some stuff that, that will basically separate you from the masses no matter what you're doing right now. Some skills that will be able to, you know, you can sidestep from the crowd and pretty much stand out immediately. That's kind of the overall feeling. And so before we get into there, definitely go shoot us a message. We want to hear from you on our website@evergreenprofits.com contact that's the best way to get ahold of us. It's direct. And we will respond to you. We want to hear from you, your thoughts. If you have some ideas, questions, whatever it might be, shoot them over our way and we'll get a hold of you. All right, so going on to Mr. Matuse right now.

Matuse, let's dive in. Hey, Mike, thanks so much for joining us today. How you doing?

I'm doing great. Thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it.

Awesome. Yeah, no, we've been looking forward to this conversation ever since we, we met you. What about about a month ago, right, at Aaron Fletcher's mastermind over at his crazy mansion in Encinitas.

That's, that's right.

Yeah, that was a good time, man. Because that was, what, two days? And it felt like, I don't know, like we gravitated to each other. There was like, we're just like, all right. Because that's how, like, Matt and I work. We're like, all right. When we're flowing around, we don't want to. We don't need to go deep with everybody, but it's like, if there's, like, one person that's rocking and rolling, we resonate with. Bam. And that was you.

I appreciate that. Yeah, I know. And I mean, it was cool because, you know, on one side, you guys were there showing your stuff, and I'm, like, sitting there taking notes, just trying to, like.

Yeah.

And then on the breaks, we were masterminding and kind of helping each other out, making sure we're all on the same page and trying to trade secrets to get our businesses to the next level.

It was awesome.

We're going to be meeting up in person in a couple of weeks here, and, yeah, I mean, a lot of good stuff is going to come from it, and we'll probably get into a lot of that throughout the course of this conversation. But I want to actually start the conversation by getting a little bit of your backstory, kind of how you essentially, what you were doing before you were an entrepreneur and sort of the progression of how you became an entrepreneur, and we'll kind of find some cool, interesting stuff to pick at through that story.

I love it. So, yeah, man, that's a great question. I was a college athlete, actually. What's funny is I was a football player, but I was a kicker, so that's like half an athlete, I guess.

They're like, you played college football? And I was like, yeah, I was a field goal kicker. And they're like, I think you're the.

Smart athlete on that field.

And so what happened was, is that, you know, I put. Coming out of high school, I put all my eggs in one basket, and I said, I really want to go to USC for two reasons. One, because I'm a huge USC football fan, and two, because I wanted to go to business school there. And so, you know, I went in, got recruited by Pete Carroll, and was sitting there, and they said, we don't scholarship kickers. We make them walk on. So you gotta, like, pass the SATs. Like a real, like, student athlete.

Go figure.

Yeah.

And, you know, my. My. My story was that, you know, ADD in school, and it's helped me so much in business and entrepreneurship, but back then, I was like, If I could just get a 1200 on the SAT, I can get into USC. Well, that didn't happen. I ended up going to junior college and, and then transferring to Chatham University, which we humbly refer to as the SC of oc And I played football there and that's where I met my wife. And the cool thing about it was is Division 1 football was a goal of mine, but playing in Division 3 also gave me like the ability to focus solely on my business. So I started my first business while I was a junior in college. And that was a business called First Step Fitness. That's still in, you know, in business today, but it's an evergreen business for us. And I started it from my dorm room and then built it into a gym here in long beach, about 10,000 square foot facility. And then the cool thing is now my cousin who's a freshman at usc, he's the starting field goal kicker and I coached him all up. So at least the second generation got to, you know, like, so I can live vicariously through him. I'm like, one of my family's got a kicker at USC and hopefully my sons who are 6 and 2 can follow in those footsteps. But yeah, the entrepreneurial journey started for me in college. I started to see that.

That just entrepreneurship in general and this thing called digital marketing via Facebook and Google was just going to be a big thing. And.

I, instead of going in, I remember having this like really, really in depth conversation with one of my business professors and I said, look, I'm torn. Do I go get my mba, which is kind of like the smart, sensible thing to do, which everyone, you know, my parents told me I got to, or do I take that money and invest in a real world MBA and just ride this digital marketing wave? And so I did option two and that's what set me apart. And I don't think I've ever looked back. Smart move, you know? Yeah, I mean like, like depending on the, you know, the industry, the, the job or whatever you want to do, grad school could be an option. But at the same time there's also other options. And, and for entrepreneurs that kind of know that they're leading an entrepreneurial path, it's very important to kind of speed and execution and get in the game fast. Kind of fail forward is huge because you can always go back to school, but these things are happening now and if you want to take advantage of them, then you kind of got to get in the game.

Yeah, man, I mean, that's actually, it's cool. That you say that because we're at a conference a couple weeks back, Perry Marshall, and you pretty much said that same exact kind of rant, because I think he homeschools his kids, teaches them the ways that kind of he wants to show them the world and kind of gives him an option, is like, okay, well, you know, you can choose to spend X amount of cash to go to school, if that's where you choose to put that, you know, that amount of money. Or you could take that same money, and even if it's not start a business, maybe it's interning for someone or moving to somewhere to get that experience so you can grow from that point on. And it's just knowing that there's a choice after high school. It doesn't have to be college, but there's so many other things.

I mean, you know, it's business, you know, Like, I kind of, as. As I would imagine, actually. I know you guys do kind of play in different industries, and they all kind of come together. You know, I'm a little bit in the investor world now. I'm a little bit in the digital marketing world, a little bit in the fitness world. Right. And so, you know what's. What's crazy about that is, like, when I talk with investors, I always hear about, like, this word, and it's like, where's the arbitrage? Where's the arbitrage?

Yeah.

And so, like, I. I hear that. And what's funny is, I think with education, the way that it's slowly, like institutional education is changing very slowly, that there's a huge arbitrage, meaning, like, there's an opportunity that most people don't see or just strictly choose not to like, that. They just choose like, hey, I'm not gonna believe this, or I'm not gonna, like, put any attention to this. So the arbitrage of the opportunity is all these alternative forms of education that are now popping up. Masterminds, homeschooling, things like that, that are more relevant forms of learning, and mentoring that are pennies on the dollar. You don't have to go pay to learn. You can actually get paid to learn what your customer wants, which is like, the huge arbitrage. Like, why would you go to school for 250k and be in debt till you're 40 when you know how to interact with humans? You can run a digital marketing startup or a business or even just one type, like a podcast or anything, and get paid.

Even if you're trying to reinvent yourself, you know, like, Matt And I have done this is you take on clients and you learn about an industry or you learn some tactics, but you're getting paid for it and you're not having to really pay for the tactics or for the learning. So if you kind of reframe education, you could totally do that from start to even like if you're pretty savvy. Going strong already.

Yeah, it's like a self liquidating degree. That's true.

I love it.

I love that. Yeah.

Cool, man. Well, so talk more about. So you have First Step Fitness Top talk about that location. Cause I think that's what like.

When we met you, that was the thing that I think Matt and I latched to. We're like, holy shit, this is genius. Like the way you set that up.

Yeah. Obviously there's a gym element to it, but it's not just a gym in that location. So if you want to kind of talk about that for a minute, that we found really interesting.

So when I launched from like zero years to first five years, it was like get the business up and running. I mean that's like the entrepreneurial startup story where you're just like grind, grind, grind, you know, tooth and nail all the way up the ladder, just trying to get it solvent and steady. Right. Survival mode. And so my wife and I were doing that shore and we, you know, took on investors and we, you know, we paid them all back and we're sitting here and then we're looking up and it's, it's when I started to really understand this term called business disruption. That might be new for a lot of people, but it's definitely not new for business owners where this is one of the few times, I think in history, at least in American history, where things can become irrelevant so much faster. And I saw that model rapidly becoming just irrelevant with things like apps and different. It just in my business plan in college when I built the business didn't account for digital disruption and all these different things I kind of had to learn on the fly. So we quickly pivoted and we built a team. But also what we did was we took a look and say, well, if this is affecting us right here, right now, it's probably already affecting other people or will be in the future. And so once we overcame that one hurdle, we decided to. We have a huge 10,000 square foot facility and most of it was being used for fitness. And we converted about 2,500 square feet to something called the Launch Lab, which is a small, Long Beach's first small business Accelerator, kind of like we call it like a founder social club. It's like a country club style amenities and networking without the golf and tennis for scrappy entrepreneurs, startups, you know, people like, we call it scrappy yet classy because, you know, like, you guys, like, it's not that we don't like nice things and everything like that, but we're constantly assessing, like, do I need this fancy thing or to put this back in my business, right? Like I can afford it, but I want to keep the money in the business. So like we like that scrappy nature but, but at the same time, like we're doing a lot of cool events, a lot of high class stuff, a lot of high class people. And really what it is is a place for three things. One, just for connection, we have events, we have signature events. We do allow people to come in and film and do their seminars here. Matter of fact, we had just had a commercial that aired on Fox Sports. Alex Morgan, the captain of the women's national team, she rented out the facility for a day and did her like soccer commercial here. So it was super cool to see it on Facebook. I'm like, oh, dude, that's the, that's the launch lab in first up in it.

Yeah, that's cool.

And then, and then kind of the second and third phase are mentoring and also like a business pop up shop. So you can come here and say, hey, I want to rent out this little space right here, 300, 500, a thousand square feet for 90 days and just kind of see if this, this new entity or this new idea can take off if I can actually prove revenue. Right. And in there you'll have a team of marketing people who are your, and other entrepreneurs who you can bounce ideas off of. I really think that Long beach is the next, what I call pro business beach hub because it's sandwiched between, well, you have all the way at the north, you have Silicon Valley, which is like the birthplace of, you know, digital and startup and tech and everything like that. And then over the years it's migrated to now what's, you know, affectionately been known as Silicone beach, which is like Playa del Rey and like Venice Beach. And then it kind of like skips over Long beach and starts up again in Orange county, like in Irvine and San Diego. And I just, I don't, I don't understand why, but it, like Long beach is a place where you can still live very, very nicely on the, along the coastal corridor for under a million bucks. And so it's only A matter of time before the big tech people, and they're already kind of circling the wagons, are saying, hey, we're going to put our office there, we're going to move our people there. And then that's when the, the accelerators and the incubators and the whole tech scene kind of start to grow. And you. And you've seen this, like, I studied this incessantly, but you've seen this. Very similar to Long Beach's economy is Detroit. Long beach economy is almost 100%. Not, I wouldn't say 100%. It's very, very dependent on the harbor. Right. The port and then conventions. So that lends itself to say, well, if those things ever slow down or get disrupted, how does Long beach make its money?

Sure.

Right. And so it's the same thing with Detroit and with the car industry. And so what, what, like Magic Johnson and Josh Linkner, who's an awesome entrepreneur, and. And then the guy who owns the, the cabs, I forget what his name is, but they started Detroit Venture Partners and they kind of revamped the scene in Detroit. And I kind of saw that the same time they were doing that, there was a huge LA Times article that comes out and it says, tech business boom hits everywhere. In.

California, but Long beach.

All of the.

I can relate to that. I was in Detroit just a couple years ago. I know a developer, he's a buddy of mine, and he's right behind the. The Cavs owner that you're speaking of. I forget his name, but his company's.

Name is Dan Gilbert.

Dan Gilbert, that's the guy.

There you go.

The company's name is called Bedrock. And in Detroit, it's absolutely amazing because they teamed up with guys like the Obey Artist.

Forget his name. But he, like, there's. It's actually really cool. So both, like, my buddy, his name is Eric Means is there. They're like almost like competitors, but they're both doing what you just said, so it's actually really cool. But I love how you're spotting these gaps. I'm almost thinking like, you know, the 8020 principle, if you're thinking of that, like a whole industry in Long beach is almost like reliant on just a handful of things, but if one of those go down, like, you're fucked.

Yeah. And I mean, and I totally. I mean, I live this. Right. Like my, like, I'm from Long beach, grew up around here. My dad worked for Boeing for 25 years. And then they go, well, Ed, you know my dad's name, you Know when your kids graduate from high school, you got to move up to Seattle because we're moving everything up to Seattle from Long Beach. It was like 25,000 jobs boom. And Long beach hit like a little mini recession. And so it's, you know, that's the thing, right, is like, I saw that and I'm like, well, there's all this and now all this Boeing land is being restored and it's all like tech workspace. Ish, like common, you know, cowork and everything like that, that revolution that's kind of the new live work, play economy that we're speaking about. And this is just, this is just domestically. I mean, the entrepreneurial culture and the entrepreneurial effect in the startup effect. I mean, this is also. It was funny because I was in an event last week. My buddy Sanan, who owns an awesome company called K Comm and is the founder of the Internet Marketing association, he started another company or another like group called the International Executive Council. And I was shocked to hear, we were discussing this and they're like, you know what one of the fastest growing startup hubs is? And I'm like, what? 6 Santiago, Chile they call it the Chilicon Valley.

Startup Lisboa, which is in Lisbon. Well, they'll actually pay American entrepreneurs to come and like they'll pay you and give you massive tax breaks so you can bring your company there because they know that where entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial ideas go, that money and economy flows. So it's like, it's not a new thing, it's just, it's just seeing it in a different way. I told my partners and a lot of people here, we're probably 18 months early, but I'd rather get feet on the street and boots on the ground right now and develop this so that when it is really time, when the SpaceX is or the Googles or the Amazons do kind of like circle around Long beach and see it for what it really is and what it really could be. I want to kind of already be baked in.

Yeah, yeah. I mean the thing that I see is almost like the biggest sort of roadblock to that like happening at a super grand scale is just sort of the sort of California business climate and the, you know, like the units. The United States is one of the like most like the least business countries, like least business friendly countries when it comes to taxes. And then California is like the least business friendly state in the United States when it comes to taxes. So I mean, that's why you see.

A lot of companies like, yeah, Google. Long beach is one of the cities that is the hardest to start a business. Yeah, I totally understand.

You're absolutely right. You know what scale this happens? I don't know. I just know that. Yeah, I mean, two things. One.

When we say businesses, we're not talking about like Fortune 500. I'm looking at like micro businesses because I, I don't know about you guys, but like I started in fitness. And the whole reason why.

People, let's say for their health, right, they, their diet's a huge thing. Well, that's not because they just overeat. It's because the food, like the purity and the like, you know, of the food has diminished over the years. Right. So we have to take supplements now. Even if we just eat the right way, we still take supplements to get all of our nutrition. Yeah, well, it's the same thing in a job. I mean, Long beach has always been a scrappy, working class town. That's what I love about it. It's one of the things, people work hard, they're very down to earth, they're very humble. But as you know, now like a 9 to 5 salary just won't cut it anymore.

Right.

So a lot of people got side hustles where like when they're, when they're just to live like, you know, the American dream, so to speak, you're having to have a business on the side. A lot of people I know, like one of our, one of our neighbors that lives in our community, they're very hard working people, very educated, they got great jobs, great careers. They just borrowed against a 401k to start a laundromat and it's a little $100,000 a year business that cash flows.

Yeah.

Why? Because like that's gonna be the game. Like maybe, maybe you don't have like a full scale business, maybe you don't make that entrepreneurial leap, but you always are gonna have to have a side hustle if you're gonna stay like in California with cost of living and everything like that. So I think what the launch lab is going to be aimed at is helping people kind of have that supplemental income in something that they love and then they have the benefits and the, and the, you know, to some point they've already kind of like.

Sewn it all up. They have the degree. They're like, man, I got to stay in this field. I got to like keep being a lawyer, a doctor, a teacher. But on the other side, like, I can leverage digital marketing and create a group or coaching program. Or something that, that will give them either freedom, income or at least a purpose. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, no, it totally does. Can you talk about the launch lab and what the actual business model behind it is? You know, because you talked it's got the gym and then you're also letting businesses work out of there in a pop up. And then you mentioned the accelerator. Can you kind of like give a breakdown of how that.

You know, how you earn off of that? Basically, yeah.

So I mean with, with the launch lab, it's, it's, it's really, it's not like, I wouldn't say it's like one of those things that's gonna like put my kids through college, but, but it's one of those things I really wanted to do. Part of the thing that we, how we, the revenue model is space, right? Like we have an awesome space here, it's very unique and we have the ability to give people space. And in a short term lease, you know, where they don't have to sign that like oh my God, I got to sign a five year lease. Like we can do a three month lease or a six month lease just so they can see if their idea is worth pursuing. And our goal is really not to have those long term clients.

In our facility. The whole idea of an accelerated incubator is to hopefully grow out of that space really quick. You know, so before this was a thing, we were already doing it. Like we've had people come and rent space. We've had people come that are like doctors, Cairos, clothing companies and they would use our space just because we're like a community here. And we would get them clients or show them a couple tricks on the digital marketing side and their business, they would outgrow our space. And I said this is a good problem. Yeah, how scale this up.

But the biggest thing that we want to do is consulting and coaching. There's so many, especially local businesses, there's so many people that still haven't harnessed the power or even understand the power of digital marketing. And this is one of those things these times in history where it's only a matter of time before this uneven advantage remains open, before huge brands are really going to understand that, that YouTube, Facebook, Google, Instagram are tools that need to be taken seriously as like as radio and television. And so two, three years from now, if this unequal advantage or this attention shift is not going to be there for everybody, right, you're not going to be able to just start a business with $1,000 of paid advertising and like, you know, and throw up a website, you're not gonna be able to test this stuff. It's gonna be, it might not be as expensive as starting a traditional business, but it's certainly not gonna be as.

As available as it is. And you've already seen that like people just migrating. Yeah, they're, they're like what used to work three years ago or two years ago or even one year ago doesn't have that potency. As more people migrate to each platform.

Dude, we're seeing it like, yeah, because your ad costs will go up. With more competition, more ads being shown, savviness of the market will go up. And I mean, Matt and I talk about this all the time. Just with the different ventures and verticals we're in, we're like, shit, there is a gap, like, and that's the big thing. If you could spot these gaps in whatever vertical you're in and maybe leverage a partner or leverage something, some system to kind of get you in there so you're not having to build from scratch. I mean, if you, if you could just like pair those two things up and if you, if you have a minute amount of like how to drive traffic or how to help someone convert their offer and how to actually monetize, you can, that's seven figure business very quickly if you focus. But like you said, you got to jump on it, you know.

Yeah. And part of it too is like we've had really, really well known entrepreneurs and celebrities and digital marketers and coaches come and hold their.

Events here. And it's great because they're very, I mean, people that are, that have made it, people that are, that are actually doing something in business. Like, it's always a self actualization principle. Like now that I've made it to some degree, how do I help other people make it or give back? So the cool thing about the launch lab is to have different levels. You know, like people come in that quote, unquote, have already made it and they're sharing these insights, tips, tricks, you know, like, you'll go to like someone who has like, like, like an Aaron Fletcher, right? Like we, that's where we met. He's, he's sitting there and he's like, guys, let's, let's take a look behind one of my funnels or one of my, you know, strategies or systems. And it's like, really? And they're like, yeah, right. And so like, we want, like, we want to do that for other people so that they can see that it's, it might not be easy, but it's very simple in its approach, is that if you, if you have, you're good at something, if you can offer value to the world, then don't get caught up on the technical aspect and overwhelm because there's always someone willing to help you if you have the next idea or whatever. I mean, there's a lot of confusion that keeps people on the sidelines. I know it had for me for a long time be like, oh man, I got to have this SaaS product with this and it's got to be tricked out and I can't put it out in the world. That's hurt. Perfect. Yeah.

No, what you're saying right there totally resonates with us because one of the worlds that Joe and I have been wanting to get deeper into, but we haven't yet, is the SaaS world, the software as a service world. And Joe and I actually have fairly decent ideas for software, but we've never pushed forward on it because it's just, it's a world that we don't know. And, you know, and really all it comes down to is who in our network can we tap that does know this information that we can just, you know, give a call to. But that's been actually one of our roadblocks at our current state. Where we are in business right now is this is our sort of next venture that we want to go down, but it's, it still seems a little too complicated, a little over our heads.

So, yeah, you know, it's, it's one of those things. And we, Matt and I talk about this all the time, but you're almost saying it here. This is what's clicking with me, Mike, is like if you meddle in the details for too long, you're gonna get yourself confused. You're gonna stall out. That opportunity might pass. It's. You might even lose your fire to even create that thing because you're like.

Oh shit, this is gonna be so complicated.

I have to do it all. But like you said, like, there's a. You can build a team or you could just build some, find some contractors on upwork, partner with someone and. But like, it's just like, start the damn thing. Just go, well.

And like you said as well, like, if it's a really, really good idea, people are going to want to work with you on it, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I like, I kind of have like a four step foundational approach to when I'm looking at a business or looking at, you know, maybe a possible investment. And when someone's telling me about their business, I'm like, I'm checking this box, right? Like, that's why I love, like, you guys hit all four boxes, right? So, like, the first one is the dream. Like, can I see in the future what you guys are talking about? Or, like, have you made it to where it's like. Like pulling me. It's like a magnet. Like, you're like, oh, Evergreen profits. And then this. This. I'm like, oh, my God. I can see the dream clearly. Because that's pretty much an idea is you're selling a dream. Like, you know, sure. And then. And that's investors or future clients or anybody. I mean, they got to be able to see it clearly and be somehow moved emotionally before they can conceptually, you know, before that, like, money changes hands, before they're like, okay, what's the number? Let's do that. Right, Right. They make. They make a decision first with their emotion, and then if it sounds good, they rationalize. Right? But they don't. They typically don't do it the other way around. And then the second thing is the team. Like, you know, once you get the dream, the team is like, who am I working with? Who are the partners, like you said. And then, you know, what you guys do really, really well is the routine. It's like, don't. Don't go outside your power zone.

If you're really good at one thing, then don't try to, like, compensate for the things that you're not so good at. Like, put someone on your team that you can double down, because that's. That's the hardest part. Like, I. Like, I could talk on podcasts, or I could strategize or do all that stuff. Like, when I got to get behind a funnel that's not working and, like, look at Facebook ads or Google or whatever, I'm just like, oh, man. My team is like, you know, like, I'm not the right guy to be doing this.

That's good.

Promote someone. Hire someone. Do something. Right? Because. And then the last thing, like. And this is this. This is why this. This. This podcast exists, to teach people how to build a machine. You know, like, we're not. We're not meant to just work 80 hours a day, but unfortunately, our parents and even our grandparents, they kind of, like, put that. That. That kind of message and that model in place. And now I think it's our generation who has to unwind that and say, look, guys, like, human. Human evolution. Like, you're not meant to, you know, spend like 80 hours a week under fluorescent lights in a cubicle. Like, there's more things to life and we got to get out there. But money gives you options and, and so finding the, the levers to pull to. To get you those things are, Are important. It's discovery. It's about, you know, evolution and, you know, figuring out, like, what works best for your specific lifestyle. I guess that makes sense.

Yeah, dude, that resonates because that whole thing, that fourth item there, system, I dubbed it as systems or machine or whatever, automation, however you want leverage. Like you said, our parents, because we're all. I think we're roughly all about the same age. Give. Take a few years. But yeah, like our generation, it's. It's work hard, go to college. I know my mom said the same thing. Dad too. And it's like one of those things you gotta break as an entrepreneur. Like, you want to kind of do everything because I know that's like Matt and I, sometimes we'll get too close to a project. We're like, oh, we're capable. Let's just bang it out. Let's work a little harder. But it's like you almost have to separate yourself from the shit you're not good at. Find that team, create the systems to free up your deeper thinking, to spot more gaps and do bigger things.

Yeah, and what's crazy is, you know.

Some people that. It's like this in sports a lot too. You know, you'll have. You'll have somebody that is good and is really awesome and they get put in a different system and then they become great or even like you have a great player that's not performing at their potential and they get put in a different system and then all of a sudden they're an mvp. And it's like that a lot. I mean, like, I was a great trainer while I was working on my first business, but these things, like, I was. I felt like I was born and bred to be digital marketing strategist, speaker. And, you know, like the final, kind of the final frontier that I'm building now is I hope to be hopefully a force to be reckoned with in the angel investment world. Because.

The angel angel investor to me is like. Is something that, like, that's like my kind of like the frontier I want to accomplish the most because it's the people that really roll their sleeves up. The launch lab is really like the evolution kind of the first step and hopefully where we want to go with the parent company that we're building under the launch lab. And it's because angel investors really roll up their sleeves with the entrepreneurs. They get into the trenches with them. They say, look, I'm here with you guys. We made it to some degree. But at the same time, like, that. That, like, feeling or that. That feeling of, like, building things and starting from scratch and like, that, that never goes away, you know, Like, I have. I have mentors that are like 80 years old that have 26 companies and $200 million in assets, and they just are like, what's the next thing? What's like. It doesn't. It doesn't go away. Right?

That's all of us, man. Yeah. I don't think, you know, if you fight it, it's like, no, that's your true being. That's. That's what you love to do.

Absolutely.

Yeah. And like, you mentioned spotting gaps before I even knew what an angel Investor was like 10 or 11 years ago. I would just think that everyone goes to banks to get loans. And, you know, if your P and L and your balance sheet doesn't look good, they just kind of once over you, and then, peace, you're out. Right. Like. And so, like, what this whole kind of funding revolution has kind of brought about is people that really see the. The gaps and the opportunities. Right. And just like, we've been talking, we were talking at Aaron's thing about different types of currency. Right. About what business is now and, like, raising capital for a business idea, knowing that the business traditionally may not make revenue for a while or even at all, but it doesn't even matter because the other currencies kind of make up for it.

That's right.

Yeah.

User base and things like that, like Instagram, they fricking. Yeah. Yeah. It was just all users. It wasn't revenue.

Yeah. I mean, even. Even when you look at something like Google or data or Google or Facebook, the asset, their biggest asset is all of the data they've collected over the years. They know, like, everything about everybody.

Yeah, I know. And can you imagine, like, like the founders of Google walking into, like, a B of A or whatever and be like, hey, I want to get a small business loan? Like, we're gonna just scale up our user base to a million bucks before we charge a penny? Like what?

Well, this whole funding thing, this is. This is actually something that's like, Matt and I are newer in, but we're starting to learn a lot more. And, you know, we're connected to a lot of folks that do a lot of deals. They get funding in strategic ways.

I mean, you could go as basic as literally going to PayPal. If you have. If you run good transactions through PayPal, you can get instant funding based on your transaction level, and you just pay it back incrementally per transaction. And I mean, it's like, holy shit. You can, like, you can get a lot of money for whatever you want to fund. If it's a software, if you just want to fund some ads, I mean, literally, that's one way to do it.

Well, it's interesting. We actually had just like this sort of complete breakthrough. And this was what, maybe two weeks ago, we went to PayPal. We went through this process of like. Like they have a thing called PayPal working capital where they'll essentially loan you money and then you just pay it back through PayPal transactions. They just shave off a little piece of every transaction that goes through your PayPal account until the entire amount was paid back. And we thought, this is pretty interesting. Let's see how much we get approved for. Right? We went through this little survey form, answered all the questions. Literally within 15 seconds, they said, you're approved for $60,000. And we went, holy shit, this is like. And we didn't actually take the full amount, but we're like, let's test this out. And so we took a percentage of that capital. It was in our bank account that same day.

Wow. So is it like factored on your receivables or like, that's pretty cool.

Yeah, it literally will take. So if, I mean, anyone can do this, it takes a total of like two minutes to just run your numbers, but it'll take either from the low end 10% of each transaction all the way up to like 30 or so, and you can select which you want to do. Obviously there's higher fees for other. But the whole fact of the matter is I think it's like a 10% fee, basically you're paying back to PayPal. So just factor that in.

Yeah, no, yeah, nothing saying. Right. So you're. Yeah. And this is, this is kind of going to go hand in hand with the way that business disruption and small business revolution in the micro business revolution and entrepreneurial revolution are all going to continue to evolve is, you know, I mean, I think that like the company that I started and.

The parent company of the launch lab is called Matuse Venture Partners or mvp. And really I have the same type of friends that you guys are talking about, and they said, well, why don't you. It sounds like you should start a Venture partnership. And I said, great, what's that? They said, basically, you're priming these people. You could have an accelerator like the Launch Lab and really you get them to a point where you can also link them to the bigger capital guys, to the VCs, if that makes sense, or other investors. Right. But it's that sweet spot of like as low as like 5 grand to pay for ads or upstart to like 50 grand or 100 grand. Right. Which seems like a lot of money, but in the scheme of things, right, like there's companies that like have a one page business plan that are going to do 2 million on their Series A financing round. That's like, we won't touch you unless you raise 5 million. So 5 to 150 really is small potatoes. But it has a huge impact because it gets more people to kind of take that leap, that entrepreneurial leap and say, hey.

And the cool thing is a company like PayPal understands that. So if they can nurture those entrepreneurial seeds. And again, like we had mentioned earlier, entrepreneurial thinking can just be a side hustle business. Yeah, but, but at least it's, you know, I mean the net effect is, is that you're using contractors, using other businesses to grow your business and so the economy as a whole will continue to, to, to develop. You know, I mean it's, it's exciting times for sure.

For sure.

Yeah.

So one of the things you mentioned in the, you know, we, we send out a questionnaire kind of thing before we do the podcast and one of the things you mentioned you like, like to talk about is how business models get disrupted and how to profit off of those disruptions. Now just to kind of dive into that topic a little bit, like, how do you determine like an industry that is right for disruption? Like how do you spot that kind of stuff?

That's a great question. So I've seen it over and over again in fitness. I believe there's one coming very soon in fitness again. But really where disruption starts to really show is one when like I'll give you an example because this is one that you guys are both in. I think that the funnel industry, like the coaching industry is about to have a massive disruption.

Because every time you go to an agency or someone who can just throw up an agency, it's like, hey, give me $50,000 and I'll build your funnel.

Right? Yeah.

And the problem with that is the funnel is not the thing. It's not like the asset. It's not right to a degree. It is. But I think if someone figures out how to lower that barrier.

They can start to create a business model disruption where either software or other things that are more valuable than that quick upfront cut, then, then I think, I think that that's, that's going to be something you're seeing, is that. And I think you probably already see it is, is like, I know in fitness, one of the things that it's like everyone went to the same seminar. Yeah, I used to, I used to have somebody go, I used to have somebody run my stuff. And then all of a sudden I see people that were running funnels and they're like, well, we're not going to run your funnels anymore. Uh, it's just gonna be 20 grand. And then we're gonna send you this website, you do it yourself, and all these videos. And I just keep seeing that. And I'm like, dude, that's the wrong model because this stuff is uber technical. And 20 grand, who, what, what trainer or entry level is gonna be able to drop that and really see an roi, right? So, but, you know, but get back to your question. It's one example. The way you spot disruption straight off is, I believe, when there's only one way and the barrier to entry is so high that someone can lower it. Right? Or you figure out one unique way to kind of add value without adding cost. And the thing is, once you see a disruption and once it's been proven, once you see it duplicated so fast. So you give you the example, like the box Revolution Birchbox, Bark box, Mentor box, right? Here's what they saw. They're like, hey, I can get all these things that are commodities, you know, like samples or ebooks or trip wires or things that people make once, and then they really have no inherent value other than just to kind of create curiosity up front and then migrate people up to a higher product ladder. So what if we bundled all these things and gave it like $10 monthly recurring revenue? Right? Because recurring revenue is one of those things that is going to literally skyrocket valuation, especially for investors. Even if it's ten bucks a thousand users, you're only making a certain amount of revenue, but you can sell it for 5 or 10 or 15x. Right? So once someone figures out how to add value without adding cost.

That'S when the disruption is, is kind of occurs. Like, look at Uber. Like you don't have to have any inventory or any cars, but you can just work through a distribution channel and add jobs without adding pollution or cars or Anything like that.

Yeah.

And so, like, digital marketing, we, as we, you know, all know, like, it's kind of at the point of the spear of business disruption, because the more people can figure out how to have smarter marketing, digital marketing models, then then they can build smarter business models. They can get the word out faster. Like, information and products and services can disseminate faster. Right. So, yeah, I mean, and scale just is absolutely enormous. Like, when you, when you consider, like, if you had to do this, you had to do this stuff, snail mail, it just wouldn't work. Right. But if you can do it, like email or Instagram or whatever, it just has this enormous scale where people can just get it right away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think, like, as. As technology advances and we get more and more sort of adapted to new technology, we start to realize that there's. There's a lot of things that are super antiquated that, you know, technology hasn't touched enough yet. And one example that comes to mind for me is, you know, me and Joe and one of our other business partners, we were sitting at the bank last week and we were opening up a new bank account for a new business that we just acquired. And while we were sitting inside the bank, we were all sitting there going, how ridiculous is this? A. All three of us all have to be at the bank at the same time. Like, I, like, Joe wasn't going to come. Me and our other partner thought that we could set it up without him. The banker said, no, you need your other business partner here before I can open this bank account for you. That's one thing. Second of all, why the hell do we even have to go to a bank anymore? Right? Like, I can get on my iPhone right now and I can get funding for a car, and I can buy a car and I can have a car delivered to my house tomorrow. Yet to open a bank account, I have to round up three people plus a banker, sit down at the bank for an hour and, and go over this questionnaire with this banker, and when I leave, I now have a bank account open. Like, how antiquated of a system is that? Where every other industry has figured out how to set up that kind of stuff within seconds.

Yeah, and you bring up a good, great point. And the thing here is with how you spot business model disruption is when very savvy entrepreneurs figure out how to give people back their time and add in convenience, like Amazon prime or Uber or whatever. But there's a caveat to that, because 15 years ago, if we would have said, hey, you're going to let your, your daughter or your son or your nephew or whatever just get in a car with a stranger? Doesn't happen. But the other side of the coin to that, the ying to the yang, is brand. Like when, when brands start to develop and they get their own personality, like Amazon and Uber, this is where that trust, authority and even celebrity kind of comes in. Because everything you're talking about, like with the bank example, is adding convenience and giving you back time. And once someone figures out how to do that, an entire industry gets disrupted. It's the same thing with Netflix and Blockbuster. But that being said, like, Netflix had to do a lot of branding and marketing to make it so that they're the preeminent go to place. And then once that happens, Amazon prime follows suit and so does, you know, Sling and all the other, like, you know.

Yeah, yeah, with the baking example, I mean, we are in the middle of attempted disruption with blockchain and bitcoin and all that stuff, right? So, like, they're, they're trying to disrupt it. There's companies out there that are doing their hardest, like, working their hardest to, to say, look, the banking industry is antiquated. It sucks. This is a better way. It's that. It's that process of getting the adoption that is insanely difficult. That's the hurdle everybody has to get over. I think everybody sees like, yes, the banking system is antiquated and, and a lot of people can look at blockchain technology and go, oh, I can see how that would make it better. But it's that, that gap in between that adoption phase that is that, that monumental hurdle I think, that most people would see.

Yeah, that adoption phase is huge. And it's just kind of like, like, who's doing it? Who are they? Who. What are we about? Like, other people like you who've adopted this. Like, those are the type of marketing messages and branding that you see. Like, one of my great friends and clients is a guy who has a great, great business and he is also an investor and he started this company with a couple other partners. He's an investor, and it's called Aspiration Partners and it's a bank online. So you have a checking account and then you also have like an investment account. But the cool thing is they let you name what the fee is, which is kind of like their unique selling proposition. And then that fee, whatever the banking fee is, goes to solving like a global problem. Right? So if you say, I elect to have.01% of of, of my trend, like for banking or for services. Like, that's cool. And then that part of that.01% will go to solving hunger or clothing or some type of really global problem.

Yeah.

And that's their whole business platform, which I think is great. And they're really starting to make some moves and do some things that like their accounts and everything are going up, which is great. And I think that's just kind of more to the point of if we can prove that and it's safe and it's secure. But also banking, that traditionally has had this kind of like, you know, glass tower, high hat, like know, aristocratic kind of. Right. Well, here are these guys that are uber successful and they're like, well, why can't banking be good? Like, why can't it be the backbone that solves? Right. And so I think fundamentally that, that, that businesses now have to solve a real problem or have to have a mission attached because there's just not a lot of, like, there's not a lot of adoption or, or people that are just trying to make rich people richer.

Yeah.

I love this topic. And you know, we were actually at a event out in Chicago a couple of weeks ago. A guy named Perry Marshall was speaking, you know, you know, real successful business coach kind of guy. And he was, he was actually kind of diving in on. He wasn't calling it disruptions, but he was kind of talking about how industries get disrupted in a roundabout way. And he was saying there's really two ways to kind of of disrupt businesses, and it's through a proposition modifier and a pricing modifier. You either figure out how to simplify the hell out of pricing in places where pricing is complex already, or you try to simplify the selling proposition that you're making and do things in just a different way.

Like simplification, basically.

Yeah, basically you either figure out how to simplify the price or, or you simplify the proposition. Some of the examples they gave were like, Ikea figured out how to simplify the pricing of furniture. And the way they simplified the pricing of furniture is, look, we're gonna give this to you super cheap. Only caveat is when you get it home, you gotta build it, right? Uber Simplif simplified the proposition. You know, I don't remember the exact wording the way that Perry explained it, but you know, the traditional sense is everybody goes out there and when they can afford it, they buy a car and that's what they use as their daily driver to and from work. And their new sort of tweaked proposition was that, look, you don't even need to own a car anymore. There's already people out there that have cars that are driving to, you know, similar areas that you're already driving. Just hop in with one of them. Right. They simplified the traditional sense of, you know, your commute to work or your commute to go out to the bars at night or whatever, you know. So he said in almost all cases, when you see massive disruption, it's usually because of one of those two things. Either price was massively simplified or the propos. The selling proposition was massively simplified.

Yeah, I 100% agree. And the proposition, you know, also kind of encompassing. Like, one of the ways that we're going to do this is this, but this is also going to benefit people for good. So it kind of, like, is a no nudge in. In. Well, okay, cool. Like, I'll go with it. Like, I was at. I was at Coffee Bean yesterday, and I always laugh when I hear, like, a proposition or, like a pitch. Yeah, that. That got me. He's like, you know, normally they're like, hey, do you want to round up for charity? It's like a dollar 75. And I'm like, cool, a quarter, no big deal. And then yesterday, the girl was like, would you like to buy a cup of coffee for a firefighter? I'm like, oh, sure.

What do you say? No. Like, and then I was like, how much does it cost? Oh, it's only an extra buck. I'm like, okay, that's rad. Proposition. It's a proposition. I'm like, wow. Okay. So it's how you frame it. It's how you pitch it. I love it. I mean, I'm 100% in agreement.

And as long as it's. It's smooth for the delivery, like you said. So it's like, you don't have to think about it much. For the end user, like you said, bank transaction, it's just rolled up in your fee. You're not even going to see it. You're not going to feel it, but you're doing good. So if you, like, create something like that with all that wrapped in there, it's money.

Yeah. And another. Another thing that Perry talked about at the event we were at that I thought was super interesting is that when a major disruption happens, it often creates brand new industries, often creates brand new economies. So, for example, like, when the smartphone became more and more prolific, you know, mostly because of the iPhone. Well, what happened from that was it created the industry of smartphone Cases. It created the industry of app development for smartphones. It created, you know, just all sorts of new industries. It created industries of people who listen to podcasts. Well, yeah, it actually, it actually created the podcast industry.

SaaS.

Yeah, a lot of SaaS software. It, you know, it created all new industries because of one product. One product. Because of it, new industries were born. And you can think of all sorts of, of similar examples of a disruption happening. And due to that disruption, you know, another example they gave was when Henry Ford didn't invent the car, but he disrupted the car industry by making them so much cheaper through the, the process of the production line. Right. Well, what happened when more the. A car used to cost $16,000, now a home could buy, a family could buy it for $3,000. What happened when cars became more prolific? Now you have drive in movie theaters, you have drive thru at restaurants, you have the aftermarket car parts, you have, you know, the, the list goes on and on and on that once an industry gets disrupted, a great disruption creates brand new economies, brand new industries.

Yeah, and here's like my kind of like. And I, I'm, I'm like sitting here just like, oh man, you guys are like my entrepreneurial brothers from another mother.

But, you know, I'm like 100% in agreement to this. And the way I see it too is.

When Henry Ford disrupted the car industry, the proposition was better. What he did essentially was curate, not create. So he didn't create the wheel, he didn't create the car. He curated. He said, look, I'm going to take all these things that were that. You don't see them yet. They're puzzle pieces. I might borrow them from other industries and I'm going to bring them all together. I'm going to create and curate this system that's going to just work better. It just works better here. Sometimes you have to go like the drive in movie theater, that was a bank feature. Like the bank started to drive in and then in and out came and said, hey, we want to put this for fast food. Right? And so we're a nation of consumers, not producers anymore. And so if you're, you have, if you, you want to be an entrepreneur, aspiring entrepreneur, right? And you're in America right now, who better than you to say, hey, look, I buy things every single day and some of the things that I buy or some of the industries that I buy in are a pain in the ass. Like you just mentioned with the bank. Why don't I sit down and think about how I Can borrow a model from a hotel and bring it over in this industry or borrow from a car wash or whatever. And then all of a sudden you have a new take on the same business model. And then that disruption, you're right. Creates other industries ripple. Subscription. Yeah, the subscription economy, right. Where it just makes things super simple as a pricing model. Because you know, like that, okay, I'm going to pay X amount, right. And then if, if I go over, then there's another tier or whatever. But if I don't, then I'm, you know, I'm okay spending 97 bucks or 100 bucks or, or whatever it is. But the cool thing is, is that you keep people longer buying and that you typically buy more versus if you're just like, okay. It's like I was talking to a client yesterday, she's like, you know, she runs a, like a high end like style company and it's just like, it's super awesome what she's been able to do. And I said, you need to start a subscription model. Right. Disrupt the hell out of everybody who doesn't do this and create some scale, but also create this user interface that's like very simple to understand. The proposition is easier. If you jump on right now. I'll give you a discount on clothes and Right. Like pricing and proposition. And that's probably one of the low hanging model. The fruit like that I can see as far as a model is some type of subscription. Right. Adding more value. More value, more value. I know we can think of probably 100, right. But when that turns and someone else figures out another way, you're absolutely right. Like there's going to be a hundred different offshoots and that's just going to create more opportunity for people that want to adopt that or the other side of the coin. It's like, oh man, how come we don't have traditional, you know, blockbusters anymore? I love those things. Yeah, I know. I'm like, well, okay, cool man. But this, this gives people the ability now to create income, to kind of like solve real problems in real time, you know, like every, every person I know that comes into the launch lab, they're just like, oh my God, this thing drives me nuts. And my, my response is always like, well, let's do something about it. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, let's dig in. Yeah, yeah. You know, for people that scratch that entrepreneurial itch, they're just like, oh my God, I cannot stand this any longer. Someone's got to do something. You know, whether that's like Henry Ford or whether it's Jeff Bezos or whether it's Mark Zuckerberg or Sergey Brin or whoever, you know, like whatever it is. Right. Like, it's one of those things where like the world either needs this or this cannot go on any longer. Someone's got to do something that's kind of like the genesis story of a lot of, like, businesses.

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, we could probably have this discussion for like another two hours, which is a great sign that we're getting on stuff that we're all really passionate about. So I have a feeling there's a part two to this episode in our future. But unfortunately we do have to wrap up now and we do have a few wrap up questions that we ask everybody. And the first one is, do you have any books that have had a major impact on your life that maybe you find yourself recommending or that you read multiple times that you've read multiple times because they had such a big impact?

Yes.

One is.

One of them is called Die Empty by Todd Henry. Have you guys heard of that?

What was it called again?

Die Empty.

Oh, Die Empty. I've never heard of that one.

Yeah, super. Like, so if you're a developer, a creative or anything, like, it's just one of those things where it's like, leave it all on the table.

Figure out who, who you are and what work you. The meaningful work you're able to do. And then, you know, are you a driver developer? You know, disruptor. Right. It's super awesome. Got it. One of the, one of the other ones, I mean, I'm a big, I'm a big rich dad, you know, like poor dad, kind of like the whole series. So any of those. Or Tim Ferriss, like all his stuff, like, especially his new stuff, like Tools for Titans. But one of the things that I think the books that I always recommend is called the Road to Reinvention by Josh Linkner. Josh Linkner is a. Is a investor, entrepreneur, speaker. Like, he's just kind of like the framework or the prototype that I'm like, I'm gonna meet this guy one day. And he had a huge impact on my life in a time where I was like, what is this thing that I trying to do? What's it called? Right? And the Road to Reinvention just kind of. It's a narrative. It chronicles just all these people that would not stop trying things till they got it right. 1. One of his examples was this guy who literally, literally, like reinvented himself like 16 times. Before he got it right, you know, like, it's. It's tough because everything right now is in this day and age is the guess, right? People are like, hey, Mike, I see you're doing this and this and this and this. And I'm like, yeah, I'm prototyping. Yeah, Because I'm going to learn more, right? Launch Lab wasn't like the. Just, hey, I'm going to call it the Launch Lab. Used to be called Move University or Move U. It just, it didn't have a specific market, right? So it evolved. And that's. And that's the thing about reinvention, right, Is like, it happened more and more and more and more and more. You know, like, you guys, as you evolve, you'll have to reinvent yourself because you'll start to add things to the repertoire, right? Even though you already have a successful business and made a name for yourself, right? Like there's going to be a part two and a part three and a part four.

Oh, man, we already reinvented like 10 times.

I feel like we're in chapter, you know, we're in part three or part four right now and we're looking at what's going to be part five.

Yeah, no, I. And it's funny because, like, I went to business school. I love this stuff, right? I love talk, right? And the first industry I decided to get into was fitness. And it's like, people wouldn't take me seriously. Like, dude, Mike, shut up about this business disruption stuff because. Because I just want you to get my abs stronger and my arms bigger.

And I'm like, what?

I was like, no, I'm just doing this because this is the industry I'm in. Like, this isn't like my specialty. Like, I got more to give, right? And so I just figured, you know, hey, marketing and money. No, investing and marketing, like, those things are never gonna go out. So if I kind of anchor it to that, hopefully I won't have to reinvent myself too many times more. Because, you know, I was like, I'm a trainer now. I'm a coach now, I'm a speaker. And even those things I had to develop and reinvent over the years. So, yeah. Josh Linkner, Road to reinvention. Super. I probably read it three times a year, just kind of peace through it.

So, yeah, I love what you just said there too. The marketing and investing are always going to be around and that's just such like a great sort of simplification of what all of us are just so passionate about.

I Actually wrote that down because those are the two things that Matt and I actually. We've studied so much of marketing, but the investing side, deal making, all that, like, yeah, it's like a science. It's art. It's an art. You know, there's not a specific thing to that. I even asked. We're in a mastermind. Roland Frazier. He's one of the partners of Digital Marketer, and he's like. I was like, do you have a playbook on, like, deal making or deal structure? He was like, dude, it's an art. Yeah. Like, you can't. I'm like, no two deals are the same ever. Yeah, but it's great.

Yeah. Everything intersects at money and marketing. And I tell my team, I'm like, you're gonna come to me for. My name is Mike Matuse. You're gonna come to me for the two M's. Money and marketing.

Love it.

You know, like, if you come to me because, like, I don't know, depending on the business, like, my. Like, my. My training staff, like, don't come to me to figure out the workout of the day because I'm not gonna know it or someone on my team will know it. Like, that's the thing is, like, I. I just kind of want to keep my mind clear so that I can kind of see. See these things on the horizon, and then where we get granular about the details is in the. Is. Is in the deal making, like, what you guys are doing. You're like. You're like. We often, as strategists and investors get this, like, this. This tag where we're like, we're just dreamers or like. Oh, like strategists, they kind of just are not detail people. It's actually the opposite. We're really granular on the details that matter. Like.

That's true. That's true.

Yeah. But just not on the things that don't. It's like, yeah, like, I don't want to know about that stuff or this or this. Like, if it doesn't make meaningful sense to the. To the work that we're trying to accomplish, you know, 100%, man.

All right, I'm going to cut you off, because we will.

Yeah.

Don't worry.

All right.

Yeah. Where can people go?

I'm sorry.

Go ahead. Oh, yeah. I said I look forward to seeing you guys soon. Thank you so much for having me.

Of course. Hold on. Where do we. Where do we send people so they can learn more about you? Your place. I know your physical location, but still.

Yeah, so you can go to mike matuse.com that's M A T u Z. And, you know, I got some tips and strategies and stuff there at Mike Matuse M a T u z on Instagram, Facebook, or, sorry, Instagram and YouTube. And then at Mike Matus speaker on Facebook, DME ping me, like, do whatever, man. I love people that reach out and tell me their story because it just helps me evolve and kind of learn. Like, I spend a lot of my time with coaching people and just kind of getting in conversations like this with people at the start, not necessarily the start of their business, but the start of a new venture, the start of a new direction. So everyone has to have that adopt that startup mentality. No matter if you're at the top of an industry going into another one or you're just starting out right?

So cool. You're a giver. So, yeah, definitely. You got a lot of value there. So definitely reach out to Mike, man. If you. If you're in that. If you're in that realm, he's the man for you. All right, Mike, we're gonna. We're gonna see you on the first pretty soon here. Thanks again.

I appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

All right, bye.

Bye.

All right, thank you. And I hope you just enjoyed this episode you just listened to. Now, Ray, right now, before we sign off, I have a few things I would love for you to do. So the very first thing is to go find our guest on Facebook and tell them that you loved their episode with us. That's going to help them just feel good about themselves, but also it's going to spread the word a little bit more for us. So go find them on Facebook. Everybody's on Facebook. And go say that you love their episode and maybe one cool thing that you learned there. The second thing is to go to itunes and subscribe to our podcast. Just look up Hustle and flowchart and hit the subscribe button. And the very last thing, the third thing, is to leave us a review on itunes or wherever you're listening to this podcast and help us spread the word more. That's how more people are going to get this awesome knowledge, this. This cool podcast training, and a whole bunch of other cool, free training that we give out at Evergreen.

So that's about it. Go find them on Facebook, go subscribe on itunes, and leave us a review. You would be amazing if you did that, but you're always amazing. So thanks for listening, and we'll catch you in the next episode.

You're awesome.